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The Podcast Superfriends are getting together early in 2024 to revisit their predictions from a year. We can spoil it for you now, there were a lot of HITS and just a few misses.
We also support Podcasting 2.0 so if you want to send us a boost, we would be thrilled!
Check out more from the Superfriends below:
Johnny - Straight Up Podcasts
David - Boston Podcast Network
Jon - JAG In Detroit Podcasts
Catherine - Branch Out Programs
Sarah Burke (Voiceover) 0:02
welcome to the podcast, Super Friends, five podcast producers from across North America get together to discuss podcasting.
Matt Cundill 0:12
It's the 2024 edition of the podcast Super Friends. I am Matt Cundill from the soundoff media company, we thought we'd do a whole predictions episode. But there's so many predictions to get made. But we're all about accountability. And so what we decided to do today was to go back to one year ago when we made all these great predictions, and let's see. Let's see. Nobody else gets accountable in the industry, except for us. So I went back, watch the show we did last year, took some of my favorite parts where I think we did predictions. One of the things I noticed is we did an awful lot of talking and I think we had about I think it's about 12 predictions that we made over the course of an hour. And I thought we bring back some limit, and then we'll, we'll credit who made the who made the prediction then then we'll we'll just talk about it. So here we go. The first one, actually, that I found was from Katherine. And Katherine said the definition of a podcast in 2023 is going to continue to evolve. The listener is not thinking about audio only, they're not thinking about it being delivered on RSS, I think that the sort of purest definition of what a podcast is, is going to continue to move away from audio only. And that RSS feed, we're going to have a lot of things identified as a podcast that isn't truly a podcast. And now the rest of us will grade how Katherine did.
Johnny Podcasts 1:38
Is there a grade higher than a plus?
Matt Cundill 1:42
Yeah, I think that's an eight plus, so one.
Johnny Podcasts 1:44
But today, it did. And today was a perfect example, at least in my little section of the podcasting world. I just came from a meeting a couple hours ago with a woman who has a very successful podcast. And she sat down and she said, I said, So what are your goals going forward? And one of her goals was to monetize. But the other thing she said is, we were getting on YouTube, we're buying all this camera equipment, we're building out a full video studio. And we want to put the video version up on Spotify. And it just ties in exactly with what Catherine is saying, you know, five years ago, even three years ago, it was really only the RSS feed was what mattered most to people when we would speak to clients consult with people other podcasters in the industry, it's how do you make the best audio only podcast and now really, the definition is, how do you make the best content possible on the pot, the word podcast has kind of been absorbed under that larger umbrella because it means so many different things. It can be only YouTube, it could be only audio. And it's I think ultimately, it's better for the listener slash viewer. Now, I guess we would say, Now,
Matt Cundill 2:48
jag, you did not make the prediction. But you did talk about video last year, in that you are going to be taking a step, you actually expressed a little bit of trepidation during the show, saying I'm not sure that this is going to be for me, I'm gonna give it a try. I've already started talking about the last year in video and the changes you've made with your clients and the people you work with, and maybe even your show. Well,
Jon Gay 3:12
I want to give credit to the group as specifically Johnny, and I think up a little bit, Matt, for kind of helping me drag myself into the video world. You see, I'm a radio guy like Matt is I come from audio, I can make great sounding audio. I don't have as much experience in video, truth be told. So I said, Well, I'm going to just keep doing audio podcasts. That's gonna be my niche. But then I realized there is such a demand now for video, I will be leaving a ton of business on the table. If I did not do video or offer that as a service to clients. To Johnny's point, John and I have collaborated on a couple of different clients that want to do video. And I've realized that you know, for me personally editing, I had an Adobe Audition, I just moved those skills over to Adobe Premiere, and most of the stuff is very similar. And I've taught myself video over the last few months, and now I'm able to offer that in my full service packages in 2024. I didn't want to, but it's the old you know, rule go where your audience's fish for the fish shark. That's where That's where it is. Now people want video, I am more than happy to do an audio only podcast most of my clients just a lot of you only, but a lot of my newer clients are going to are asking for video as well. And
Matt Cundill 4:18
David, you are already kind of there working with a company like Kadoorie, which made mention of last year as well, right?
David Yas 4:24
Yeah. Adoree is a podcast app that incorporates a lot of images in sort of slideshow fashion into a podcast. So you know, like others in the group like jag I wondered whether this was going to be a thing because I'm picturing people you know, listening to podcasts in the gym, the car, hopefully you're not watching a podcast or a TV show while you're in the car. I've never done it, I swear. But it but it's it's absolutely here. And I'm sure we'll get to talking a lot about this and how it's going to continue. I'll throw out one bowl Take the picks up on this point. And that's that smart TVs I think are gonna start featuring podcast apps or at least or at least podcasts specific. They have they already are. Yeah. Okay. Well, then I'm right. So first 24 Correct. prediction is right, Dave? Well, it's just because and I said something about this last year to set the line, the lines are blurring, there is no more television, there are screens, right. And so you can, you know, if, you know, when I'm at the office, if I want to on my lunch break, you know, watch something on Netflix, I'm pulling out my laptop, there's no need to get a TV that's obvious. And that this, the younger generations are used to this now. Podcasting will become blended in with that whole landscape.
Matt Cundill 5:43
I think that was last year's prediction.
David Yas 5:50
Yeah, I'm just saying we were right. Yeah.
Matt Cundill 5:51
Well, that's what we'll get to right now. So excuse the typo on this. But you said television is losing its meaning. It's now a show people have laptops, devices and stuff. Video is not going to kill the radio star again, but But it's going to change.
David Yas 6:07
Well, I'm glad I caught the Buggles. But that that I think that has happened, maybe even more rapidly than we thought. If you're not doing video podcasting, you are probably doing audio grams or other video products or reels to support your podcast. And that's just that now to me, there's still a little bit of purist in me that thinks make the best content and don't, don't worry, right away, whether audio or video is your thing. But with the apps out there with the technology out there is becoming easier and easier to add via your podcast. And that's the way people are consuming them. So Catherine has done kicking and screaming.
Catherine O'Brien 6:51
Yeah, absolutely. And I would even say, and this is going to tie in, I'm already thinking towards the end of the show, if we were to make predictions for 2024, I have a feeling that there's going to be I think a lot of podcasters are really behind in this in the video space. And Johnny has been really telling us for several years now and just giving us the nudge. Some of us even in this group have resisted as long as we can. And because I think that just once we've started to see just accept video is a behemoth. YouTube is a behemoth. These are these other apps are just so dominant with the video, it was kind of maybe not so great for us to sit on the sidelines as podcasters. So I think there's a lot of people, especially the purest podcasters who held on a little bit too long and are going to feel a little bit behind. And I think that's gonna people are gonna, we're gonna see a lot of doing catch up this year. I think, I
Johnny Podcasts 7:54
think to Katherine though, like just, I agree with everything. In terms of the video, I still tell clients though, when they're first starting out, because it's so it's really hard to ask somebody who isn't used to talking into one of these microphones to then also stick a camera in their face, and I've hit on this a lot. I still tell a lot of clients when they're considering starting a podcast is let's just start with the audio only if if the video is right for you. And I think you should have it regardless of whether you think it's right for you or not. ease yourself into it get used to being a host first get used to creating content first get used to having the it's almost like a part time job doing a podcast and you need to get used to doing that all the time. And to jump right out of the gate with video. If that's not something you're comfortable with. That's okay. But video should be in your plans, whether it's in motion when you start or whether you've been doing it and you're still not ready for it. It's going to be on the horizon. It should be something that you're prepping and planning for but you don't need to. I don't I try not to freak people out to be like, by the way, I'm gonna stick this giant camera on your face too. And now you need to be all dressed up for the podcast and everything. It's just you will get there. So let's get used to talking into the mic first.
David Yas 9:01
A lot of podcast guests aren't necessarily prepped for video two, I'm sure we've all been there when we get on a podcast and the guest says Oh, are we doing video? Because I didn't think we were it's that's another step in the process. Right. Let your guests know that you will use the video because many of them are right. Yeah. Yeah,
Johnny Podcasts 9:19
that has to be in your in your description when you're emailing them putting on the calendar. This is a video and audio podcast.
Catherine O'Brien 9:25
And but I will say my famous loving counterpoints were a lot different in 2023 than we were in 2019. Let's say we had two solid years of zoom meetings and other online things. So I definitely see that some of those apprehensions that you've mentioned Gianni have been broken down just because of the the history. Yeah, definitely more people have just come to accept that this is part of of doing online interviews, online interactions. And so I think that I I think that there is a little bit more acceptance. I totally agree. And you're right. And, you know, minimal viable products. Let's let's get it version one is better than version none. I totally believe in that. And if you want to go audio at first great, but I do think that some of those apprehensions have fallen away. Yeah, but
Johnny Podcasts 10:16
why don't people have a mic? Why doesn't everyone have a freaking microphone? It's so annoying. We've had two years of people on doing zoom calls, and we're still having people with dogs in the background and talking into their laptop might get a microphone going, Amazon, please.
David Yas 10:28
You're right. It's still people still aren't there in general. You know,
Catherine O'Brien 10:32
when you want to ring lights, everybody got the ring light?
Jon Gay 10:35
just forgot about the microphone. Yeah. Jack,
Matt Cundill 10:38
was it Gronk? Who didn't have a microphone? Who was somebody didn't have a microphone were like, they were appearing on like an NFL show.
Jon Gay 10:46
It might have been drunk. It might have been Radio One point because Brady has a mic because he has a Sirius XM show every week. But yeah. And I mean, it's Gronk. We just accept him for who he is. But that you we make the joke, Matt. But that speaks to a larger point about podcasting in general, as it goes too far off topic here. But the lower your audio quality, the better the content has to be to make up for people to consume it Gronk has just the big loving lunk that everybody loves. So I'd be willing as a Patriots fan, I'd be willing to listen to Gronk on the not great microphone more so than I would somebody that I don't know from Adam, and like, what is this jabroni have a microphone.
Matt Cundill 11:25
All right, well, here's here's a prediction that I think I got right up until the end, Google podcast is going to evolve into YouTube podcasts or YouTube music or something along those lines. And it will come out as an app. Actually, it's now I think it's two apps really that what happened,
Jon Gay 11:40
and nobody knows the difference. Yeah.
Matt Cundill 11:42
And Amazon's going to pass Google in terms of usage, which did not happen. But anyway, I'll get my son to
Johnny Podcasts 11:50
write about you or write about Google becoming, I guess, quote, unquote, becoming YouTube, because they're all owned by the parent company, Google. And Matt's been telling us for months, hey, let people know, Google podcasts is going away. And while the audience slice on your Analytics might be small, there's there's a number of people that listen to your podcast religiously, and that are doing so on Google podcasts. And they're going to wake up one day and go what are that? So
Matt Cundill 12:18
I've had a few podcasters. Come back, they've started to do their show. Again, I'm like, I think we have to catch you up. Today, to be honest with you, a lot has changed order this camera. Yeah, it was just within the last year, we're gonna have to find a solution to get your old episodes into the YouTube app. So
Jon Gay 12:37
is that is that as simple as importing an RSS feed, Matt? Yeah,
Matt Cundill 12:41
I mean, we could probably redirect the RSS feed and just create the videos and then put them up.
Jon Gay 12:47
I do want to give a quick shout out to two simple cast my podcast host. They now have YouTube listed among Apple, Spotify and the other destinations to simply connect via an RSS feed. And they give you a pretty easy easily understand construct instructions on how to do it. So I think the other podcast host if they haven't done so will follow suit.
Johnny Podcasts 13:08
Is that YouTube or YouTube music?
Jon Gay 13:10
Let me check. I believe it is YouTube. Okay. Because
Johnny Podcasts 13:14
I know there was a huge hullabaloo around you know that it's technically YouTube music will be hosting the RSS feeds but you can connect it to the YouTube app and no one seems to know what's going on and if once you find that out Jack, I'd also be curious to know if it's connected as a destination will that if it's connected if it's pushing to YouTube is that creating a still image of your podcast artwork and putting it up as a video?
Jon Gay 13:38
It is the exact phrasing they have as you can distribute your audio content to YouTube and YouTube music via your RSS feed. YouTube will automatically generate videos of your content for your using your default show artwork and audio. Nice.
Matt Cundill 13:53
I've hit all the wrong buttons. But you know Jack, you were one of the ones I think at some point last year who made the prediction that YouTube would get involved with RSS feeds I couldn't find the tweet. I didn't hear it in the show last year but I know you've gone on record with this so I will give you points for saying this would come true in some capacity. But there you are with the scoop and the tweet when when it came up.
Jon Gay 14:16
That was tweet 100 When I had to tweet about something for 100 straight days. Oh,
Matt Cundill 14:21
okay. Well congratulations for that. So how's this worked out this YouTube how do we feel about this YouTube and RSS feeds
Jon Gay 14:31
you know, I had I had a call with a potential client today that was very to Johnny's point of reticent to do video they felt that it was a big ask to get on camera and all that sort of stuff. And I said well, you know, videos great, but if you don't have it, at least be on YouTube. And now with the importing of the RSS feeds, I can tell them look, if you only want to do audio, you still have to be on YouTube for SEO purposes. So just will dump the RSS feed into the into YouTube and call it a day.
Johnny Podcasts 14:59
Your jack that discoverability factor in it and SEO is huge. We just, I just released one of my clients episodes today where he asked me to go back and find what was the top performing episode of the year. And so I found it, we republished the episode, repurpose the audio and the video as a whole new episode. And when I was Googling around to pull an image of the guest, this guy, he, he built two of the most highest grossing revenue hotels in the United States. So you think he would be a pretty big deal. And so I googled his name. There's maybe two articles about him. But the very first video YouTube link that popped up the very first mention of any media that he's involved in, that's not a news article is the YouTube podcast episode that my hosted with him. So anytime someone, Google's this guy, that video is going to pop up first. And it's probably because Google owns YouTube, and most people use Google as their search engine as to why they would promote that first over Apple podcasts or Spotify. But that right there is a very clear, tangible example of why being on YouTube is super important.
Matt Cundill 16:03
And of course, you need to have video Thanks a lot, Johnny. Because last year, you said that going forward, you need to have a short form video, I don't think an audio gram is going to cut it any more, it's going to require more effort and require clip, whether you chuck, it's going to need to have relevant photos, short videos are going to go along with it. And if you don't have video, it's if you have video, it's got to have captions. It's got to be quick. It's got to be punchy, and got to keep the eyes attractive, which involves a lot of cutting. You said that a year ago, I feel like you say this every week. Yeah,
Johnny Podcasts 16:33
I think I think this prediction held up really well and is only becoming more and more relevant. As far as the punchiness goes, I think that is probably the biggest learning that I've had. And I think I talked about it in the last episode that we did here, when you're doing your shorts, you have three seconds max, and even three seconds by pushing it to hook the person to watch that video. I think one thing that has changed from this prediction is, I think, when I made the prediction, and I think one of the all of our thinking was is oh, we'll do all the shorts, and it'll be great. And it's going to drive all of these subscribers to our podcasts, all of these subscribers to our YouTube channel, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't think that that's panned out the way that we thought it was going to, I think that the realization or the reality that we all kind of have to deal with is a minut percentage of people are going to jump from the short to the podcast to becoming a really, longtime listener and subscriber. I think that you need to approach it as I'm going to build a following here and just have my content out there period, regardless of whether it's people consuming the short or consuming the podcast
Jon Gay 17:40
question a follow up question, Johnny. And I don't know if you have any data on this. Have you seen whether or not putting tags and keywords and to show descriptions in the shorts makes a difference for traffic on the shorts.
Johnny Podcasts 17:51
I have not seen that I that is one thing that I'm not super knowledgeable about is the hash tagging and the tagging of videos. You see it in videos I know for Tik Tok, specifically, the tags are really important hashtag FYP, which is the for you page, which is when people are just scrolling their feed, every video you'll see will have that tag on there. But as far as how effective and what like hashtag business, I don't know how effective that's going to be or if it's hashtag the Johnnie podcasts show. Who cares about that other than, you know, the 20 people that would watch that like it's it's that is a really difficult game to play, I would focus more on if it were me with a podcast, or a client that wanted to get into shorts, it would be understanding that it's going to cost a little bit of money to have really good shorts, you can pay, I've done it, I've paid the guy overseas for 10 bucks a video and they turn out really crappy, they don't look great, they're misspellings. They don't pull the right content, you as the host know your audience the best, you know what the hooks are going to be, you need to find those and you need to work with someone that's really knowledgeable about how to make really professional looking shorts that are spelled correctly with the subtitles that have relevant images in them and that are punchy, pulling that three second clip, that's the most hooky putting that at the very top and making them look really professional. And unfortunately for all of us those those costs money.
Matt Cundill 19:16
And time. And yes, but I've just started this for a client, and she loved it. And but the cost to that, right? Yeah. So how long? I mean, the question is, how long is she going to be able to keep up with the cost of doing it? But Darn, they look good, though. They're fun.
Johnny Podcasts 19:34
Yeah. And you don't need to do I mean, a lot of the hire from what I've seen talking to these people that run these like so we'll run companies of producing podcasts, there are people that are even the next step, which is they run companies exclusively for creating short form content for companies that do this. And where the cost starts to add up is how many shorts do you want from your podcast episode? Let's be totally honest, and the 90 cent 90 minute podcast you probably don't have fun 15 Shorts worth of content in there, you have maybe three, five is pushing it, you're probably going to be okay with just getting one, from every single episode get the very, very best hook at best 45 seconds from that episode, and just pay for the one that will keep the cost relatively down. It's where it's where you start getting 10s and dozens of shorts from each episode. And putting out a video every single day. Yeah, you want to choose the algorithm, but that's where the cost really starts to add up.
Matt Cundill 20:25
So there's a lot of hype about that. But also AI and Catherine said there's gonna be a lot of hype around AI for podcasting. She Catherine believes in incremental advancements, descript is a great example. But it's not going to be the thing that catapult says the prediction is all about the hype, there's going to be a lot of hype that does not pay off. Why do you think
Catherine O'Brien 20:49
this is this is a prediction I got wrong, because it was not as as high up as I was fearing that it was going to be there was some hype, but I think it was, frankly, appropriate, you wouldn't all this everybody in our group here, we saw the AI tools rolling out for some of the editing software, we use the different tools we use to make the podcast. And they've been okay, I have to say I, what I was afraid of is the hype of AI is going to, you know, oh god disrupt the podcast industry or some other sort of term like that. But really, I think that they are they are useful when they work, they're going to get better and better as time goes on. So I think I was afraid more of the hype train. But we've seen some some good stuff. And we're looking forward to more.
Matt Cundill 21:41
But I think there's a big part of the prediction, this is Johnny's and that that the AI is going to be pretty big going forward. It's going to make our jobs as hobbyists, a little bit easier. And there's going to be at least one podcast is going to be created exclusively by AI content generated by AI voices generated by AI and put together by AI with a very minimal human touch. And whether it's like you know, uploading or light editing, things like that, but someone's gonna go out and do an AI podcast. Did we find that?
Johnny Podcasts 22:11
I will be honest, I wasn't searching for it go I do not.
David Yas 22:14
I mean, there probably is one but it probably sucks. Pardon my my my like my that's Boston vernacular. It sucks. So what have you ever clicked on a news link thinking you were gonna get like a video short, like, you know, NBC News, like a 92nd report on something. And it turns out what you get is, it's basically a robot reading a print article. I don't know if that ever happens to you. But when a Japanese
Jon Gay 22:39
plane caught fire in Tokyo, exactly.
David Yas 22:42
I hate that voice. It creeps me out. I don't want to get my news that way. And that's what that's the kind of podcast a robot is going to create. So I'm sure there is a podcast out there. That's just a robot. But it's it's it's really just going to demonstrate that that's the the creative touch that we and the people we work with apply to podcasts that just simply can't be replicated. And so yeah, AI is gonna keep coming fast and furious. And it is at the risk of repeating others it is providing tools that make our jobs easier and DIY Podcast is easier. If you're, you know, I use AI all the time to go through a transcript and pick out topics List of topics for the show notes, right? It's it's great for it's good for transcription, I do use it to you to replicate human voices for in little blips like little sound stings. If you're creating a segment, and you want to have if I want to have a female voice. There aren't a lot of females here around my apartment here. So at the moment, so you know, you anyways, it gives you that those options, and those tools are terrific. And I think they're going to keep getting better. But it's not going to replace the essence the actual content of a pot. Yeah.
Matt Cundill 24:03
And there's some things that AI does that we don't even know. So a year ago, I didn't have this transcription service. I took the episode we did from a year ago, I ran it through otter, that's AI that goes to separate our voices and to find all the parts that I had to go through to come up with, you know, here's the predictions, you know, that we landed on. Otter is trained enough to know which voice does what. So a lot of people don't think, oh, that's AI but the AI has done the work for us a little bit.
David Yas 24:33
And And Matt, you might have sort of inadvertently brought up another use for for something like chat GPT you know, in advance of this episode, you could ask chat GPT you know, what are 12 predictions for podcasting for 2020 for chat GPT will come up with it. Who knows where exactly it's drawing it from, but it'll it'll give you a list. Now the list may be terrible, but it still might provide a good talking point. So I have used AI Like to generate questions for a guest for a podcast, type in the guests, you know, resume or whatever, and give him some information. And it'll it'll do that if you want to, if you're if you're doing a show that's on the lighter side, you want to create a poem about a guest. At Chachi PT will create a poem or a song about your guest. And I've used that in the right circumstances, and people get a kick out of it. But it almost always you have to be careful with it because it will get something wrong, it will do something embarrassing. Well, that's the
Johnny Podcasts 25:33
that's the key there, David is is and I was I'm happy to be wrong about my prediction, I'm more than happy to admit I was wrong, which is fine. I'm so I'm gonna double down on what I think I will be in podcasting long term. But what you just said they was really substantial is that the AI gets the ball rolling, I think a lot of people look at AI and they go, this is going to do the job for us. I think it gets the ball rolling first, then someone who is knowledgeable in podcasting, you come in, you look over it, you make the adjustments as needed, whether it's on the poem, or the song, or the questions that are going to be asked, and take what they've done, add your flair to it and create the final product that the end consumer is then going to see. Exactly.
Matt Cundill 26:13
I don't know how wrong you like we are. I actually got this podcast started today, because it was the first thing I went to, to
Johnny Podcasts 26:22
I think I think I was I think I went really hard on how much it was going to evolve in just a year like I was assuming it was going to be you know, it's gonna take over audio engineering and total video production to where you kind of are just dropping in an audio and a video file and it does the rest for you. I think that that is the I think that's kind of the end game. And it's it's it's sort of a depressing thing to think about. Is that, does that make us obsolete? And it could if you're not staying up to date with this technology, if you can be the person who can master how to use that technology and be the person to really finalize everything, then you can kind of save yourself, but I don't see that happening last year. Obviously it didn't happen. I don't really see it happening this year. I think at some point, there will be something like that though. Can
Catherine O'Brien 27:07
I share my favorite moment of livery listening to our prediction episode from last year was Jack, Jack saying to Johnny, now there's a chat G. called Chat GPT. I think you'll be hearing a lot about it this year.
Jon Gay 27:24
I don't remember that. But it sounds like something I would say
David Yas 27:27
yeah, one of the more chilling old episodes of a music podcast I do with a friend, I went back and listen. And we said, what's that thing called the corona? It's something it's like a virus.
Jon Gay 27:39
Thanks, David feel better.
David Yas 27:42
When I was just gonna add just real quick, just good advice for people like us who help people produce podcasts is the value that we give, we hope lay in direction, advice, how to make your show better and compelling, which is still the most important thing. That's the one thing that the you know, audio engineers out there might be if you're just an audio engineer, you might be afraid that a robot is going to take your job, I think we should be less afraid if we're actually guiding people coaching people along and how to make their shows more compelling. And that really is the fun part. It should be one of the main reasons you get into podcasting in the first place. That's
Johnny Podcasts 28:24
super true. Thank you for saying that.
Sarah Burke (Voiceover) 28:34
The podcast Superfriends support podcasting 2.0. So feel free to send us a boost. If you're listening on a newer podcast app, find the full list at new podcast apps.com.
Matt Cundill 28:44
Alright, we're gonna go on to this prediction that jag had about dynamic ad insertion, no longer applying to podcasts with 50 to 100,000 downloads and beyond more people are going to learn how to use the AI and use it well relevant content. And we're also going to learn a little bit more about keeping the loudness the same. I think dynamic ad insertion for things other than ads can take off in 2023. How did jag do?
David Yas 29:13
You was right, but I didn't see evidence of I think more people
Jon Gay 29:17
should have more nine plus, but you're gonna get to hear. I mean,
David Yas 29:22
it was such a good point. But I didn't see too much evidence of it. But then again, maybe I don't get out. Enough. So he
Johnny Podcasts 29:29
was right. I've seen it. The quality of d of dynamic ADS has drastically improved. Specifically on Spotify. That's where I listen to podcasts. And of the dynamic ads I've seen no more garbage just you know, closet recording terrible audio. I haven't heard one of those in months, maybe maybe even longer than that. So I would say that was a pretty spot on prediction. And then to even further validate what he said, I have I have hosts that are using dynamic ad insertion jag that are getting, you know 1002 1000 downloads in episode if that and they're making use of dai to push their own personal brand. It's like, hey, go to my website, here's a blog that I wrote, go check this out. It's all internal stuff that we and we can just cycle that stuff in and out. And it's really easy to use. Shout out to co host, which is a hosting platform that allows you to do this. And I know a lot more of the platforms are introducing this. And I think it was a very spot on prediction.
Matt Cundill 30:26
Thank you. I actually have a little bit of, I'm actually getting a lot of companies who don't want to buy dynamic ad insertion, they're actually looking for baked in or as I'm told to say, Now, integrated ads, I had a buyer come across to do what do you
Johnny Podcasts 30:46
always make the word longer, they always make the word that there's a word that works baked in, and they make it longer and more complicated to
Jon Gay 30:53
utilize instead of us as my wife.
Matt Cundill 30:57
I had a couple of companies can't remember the one from this morning, but Nord VPN was one that was, yeah, it was asking for and preferred baked in. And I think a lot of it has to do with the fuckery. from Apple and the downloads and the when you go to pause, and then you hit and the read downloading, I think a lot of companies are feeling a little more comfortable with the integrated. Now I had the discussion today with someone I wanted to push back and say, I'll tell you what, I'll give it to you for a year. I want to be able to strip out the ad after a year. Hmm. So I do not like in, you know the perpetuity in perpetuity. I hate that. You can't have it forever. I'll give it to you for a year, though.
Johnny Podcasts 31:43
Could you make the argument to though, Matt, that in the defense of the of the buyer of wanting to have the baked in adds that there is a little bit more added benefit of having their ad on there for the lifetime? Even? Even as I say that makes more sense. I think I would be more inclined to pay a little bit more to be the exclusive baked in advertiser rather than maybe pay a fraction of that and be on there for 30 days. Because who knows if it's a down month, I'm sure I'd be curious to hear what all you guys saw my podcasts took a dive in December just Yeah. No one was listening. It was done 30% across the board? Well,
Catherine O'Brien 32:21
and also we can't we can't say Oh, well, one of the good things about podcasts is that they have legs, that people are gonna go back and explore the catalog two years later or whatever, and then not be able to give them the ad space there. They think Johnny's onto something there.
Matt Cundill 32:36
I think the other but there's another problem with the baked in. And that's what about my listeners in Italy? Who can't buy your product? Yeah. What about my listeners elsewhere? Yeah, Ben.
David Yas 32:51
Yeah, there's I can see on but we I think we've brought good arguments on both sides of that the baked in ADS. I mean, one of the things that you I mean, people do it, I guess. But to me, I can tell when a live read is not actually live like it's dynamically inserted. And there is some charm to a host in the flow of the show, doing a live read. So that would be a baked in AD. But something you pointed out, Matt, which has been a struggle with certain clients I work with is the the technical aspect of downloading apart for those that have their podcast set to download. They download an episode. And then if you know, a day later, or even an hour later, the producer of that podcast goes to put in a dynamic ad. Well, it's too late for that listener. And that is one of the frustrating things I've found about creating those ads. But I think there's room for both. Yeah, Apple,
Matt Cundill 33:46
oh, sorry, I just I wanna say Apple has a problem between, you know, the advertiser us who just want our ads, we don't want the auto download, because we want to be able to count and give great numbers to our clients. But at the same time, to the listener who just goes to the airport, who gets on the airplane, who wants to have the episode, ready for their flight or in the car and ready to go and doesn't want to burn, you know, data to download the show. So there's a UX issue as well. So
Jon Gay 34:15
I think on the D on the Dai piece of it, Matt was the one that corrected me. And it's when I said dynamic ad insertion, and he corrected me to dynamic audio insertion. Matt's talking about some really great ideas for some large companies that are buying these having these big buys. I have some smaller clients that are putting things like, you know, hey, we've got a webinar coming up this month, and that dumps into all 100 previous of their episodes, or, Hey, check out this event coming up or, you know, hey, this events coming up and every time the ticket price has changed the ad changes. So I think there's a very big temptation to only think about dai as ads for third parties, but think of it as audio and anything that can help provide a message to your audience about your brand. Yeah, and
David Yas 34:58
anything that is said Super timely. I mean, being a radio guy, Jack, I'm sure you'd love this. If you do a podcast on skiing, you know, you could literally talk about the, the, you know, the ski predictions, the snow predictions for tomorrow or even today I
Jon Gay 35:11
did that in radio in Vermont, we had to download the ski report every day, you could put it on a daily ski report and every episode of your podcast. So
David Yas 35:18
that's even if you're listening to an episode of that ski podcast from a year ago, you're getting the snow report from that weekend that that to me is the exciting part of Yeah, Catherine,
Catherine O'Brien 35:28
I think our our episode that we did as Superfriends on Dai was one of the best that we had last year talking about these very issues. And let me let me tell you, my concern, though, is that there are some companies that shall remain nameless, who are really lagging on offering this technology to their broad base of their podcast clients that the hosting companies are not offering this in a way that could really be useful for some of these things that we've been talking about. Back to the baked in ads for just one moment. I do have to say one of my favorite things on a couple of podcasts that I listen to is the seamless bizarre segues that people are able to make the podcast host is able to make between what they're talking about and then to a suddenly we're talking about an ad and I some of the our favorite podcast hosts take a very comedic approach to flow us into talking about Nord VPN or whatever I'll choose pod
Jon Gay 36:24
save America is very good at that pod save America is good about we've about putting their personalities and their live rates.
David Yas 36:32
There's trouble going on overseas. But you know what's not troubling, good people in Squarespace.
Jon Gay 36:39
Don't have trouble in your home, you simply safe to have your home alarm system. Yes.
Johnny Podcasts 36:44
Are you terrified and cowering in the corner? Don't go out to get food use DoorDash.
Catherine O'Brien 36:51
Or you don't sleep on this on this topic, or you can sleep well tonight using Casper.
Matt Cundill 36:59
So this prediction from last year. People are hitting the three year mark post pandemic and people are reassessing what they'd been doing with their podcasts. We're not going to see a these big splashy numbers, people are going to be looking for monetization and other ways like sponsorships, and doing paid newsletters and membership communities and a pivot in general. Thank you, Katherine, for that one.
Catherine O'Brien 37:21
Who I think we don't?
Matt Cundill 37:23
I don't know. Do you think so?
Jon Gay 37:25
I liked the first part of that about not a lot of acquisition news this year that we have saw a big pullback I think and then 23 Compared to 22.
Matt Cundill 37:31
I'm being sarcastic. By the way, this isn't a bloodletting last, yes.
Johnny Podcasts 37:36
Spotify was kind of the the leader and all of that, I think. And I talked about this a little bit online, I think that they were a really good. What's the word like white paper or like use case to study of how people can over buy into the hype? And you're right, we haven't seen really any acquisition, it seems like all we heard for the last three years is like, oh, megaphone gets acquired and Oh, anchor gets acquired, I know so and so gets acquired by so and so. And a lot of those haven't really panned out. But in terms of the podcast, hitting the three year post pandemic, Mark, I made my prediction for this year, which was that niche audience podcasts are going to be the king going forward. I think that the general mass appeal podcast era is going to take sort of a backseat to people going, you know, I know there's a podcast out there that only talks about basketball, I don't want to hear about the NFL and sports betting and a little bit of basketball in between, I know that there's a only a podcast that caters to exactly what I want. And if you're someone who's created content, listening to this doubled down on the content you're making, make it niche, find the people in your tribe. They are out there, and they're looking for you.
David Yas 38:49
I could actually piggyback on that. Matt, if if you'll go ahead and just one of my predictions. Oh, we reserving waiting to the end of the show to actually do predictions for next year. Because I can hold this that. Yeah. Okay.
Matt Cundill 39:03
I'll say well, I'll save it to the end. I do. I do want to mention, though, that that if I get Catherine Just could you just go a little bit more with this, by the way, this is this is bang on this prediction from 2023. But about the newsletters and the community. And I think also when jag was talking about dai live events, you know, being able to schedule your live events and things that you're going to be doing. It's another way to use the Dai but when you talk about like newsletter and community, Can you unpack that a little bit more?
Catherine O'Brien 39:33
I think that it's it's, I've definitely noticed, it's much more common for podcasts that I like to have that give more to those who want more model. They're using sub stack so the sub stack is a way for people who likes the podcast to support the podcast substack makes it very easy that you can become a paid member. One of the my favorite new podcasts that I started listening to in 2023 has no now go On completely paywall using using substack. And I actually think this is going to be more and more for that person, the niche podcast, they aren't at that mega level, they aren't at the, you know, just 100 supporters, if they if you have a passionate group, you can really make your niche shine, because they're gonna support they want the content that you have. And for even something modest, like $5 a month per supporter, you're gonna be able to magically monetize your podcast. And I think that a lot of a lot of the platforms are making that easier and easier and easier. I
Matt Cundill 40:37
need to book a consulting call with you, because I know somebody who wants to do all that. And I like feel very trepidatious and unsure about how to jump into like monetizing with substack and the podcast and putting it all together.
Catherine O'Brien 40:51
I just think that, yeah, we've talked, we've talked so many times about the gap between between the mass market we're using, we're using CPM, we're using all these things that don't really apply to podcasting to try and make the money work for ads. You know, how many times have we said ads don't work for most podcasts? They work? They do work for the biggies. But how many? That is that is a small small fraction of what the podcasting is. So what does everybody else gonna do? And but the thing is that the platforms have stepped it up. There are easier ways to do it that haven't existed in the past. Yeah, so I just see that is going to be more and more.
Johnny Podcasts 41:35
Yeah, cut out the middleman. Yeah.
Matt Cundill 41:39
A year ago, this is very bold. I said there was gonna be a recession. And a lot of people are gonna do some bailing and podcast companies are gonna look what they have podcast divisions are looking going. Yeah, maybe we can cut this so we can cut parts of that. There was a lot of cuts this year. I guess we just agreed to give you
David Yas 41:58
a check mark. Yeah.
Matt Cundill 41:59
We're just gonna we're just gonna move on. Johnny, we're cutting cutting
Johnny Podcasts 42:03
might have been a little G rated, I would say bloodbath was probably Yeah.
David Yas 42:10
Well, I mean, but but but Matt, I just wonder if it's worth talking about. One of the themes that we're developing here is that,
Matt Cundill 42:18
you know, there's riches in the niches.
David Yas 42:21
Well, exactly right. Because there there are podcasts, those big national podcasts, and then there's the rest of the world. And maybe the future of podcasting is more in the rest of the world than it is in you know, Smartlist and no, smart. There always be room for smartlace and great podcasts. And have you heard about this podcast, but that industry is just it's a completely different animal from the rest of us that are going for these little niches and a lot of and I don't know the specific numbers, but I think those will continue to grow podcasting as a tool as a vehicle as a way to market what you do. I don't see that going anywhere. But
Matt Cundill 43:02
maybe. I mean, Jack's not gonna be wasn't surprised by this, because we both come from radio, but when you see something like heavyweight, get the x from Spotify. I mean, that's a big show. And then also, yeah, you're done. Yeah.
Johnny Podcasts 43:15
What do you guys think about that? Because I looked at it. And I looked at the shows like is this some like garbage podcasts? And it's really, it's super popular. Why? Why would something like that? Because I can understand the other ones that they cut. But why that one?
Matt Cundill 43:27
Because if you want to make a great podcast and great audio, it takes a lot of people and people are expensive and time is expensive. And now there's you know, 20 people on it. Yeah, that's on the show. And you can't make the money back from it. It's like a disco elsewhere. That's the
Johnny Podcasts 43:42
thing with those true crime podcasts is the sound design in them is just insane. And that can't be done by one person.
Catherine O'Brien 43:49
Well, and also we I heavyweights came from public radio to Yeah, they there are a lot of shows that are you know that there are a lot of public radio shows early in on podcasting so that they were really bullish on podcasting from the get go. But that mean, if they come from Public Radio, they come from an environment where there is an entire structure of all those people, all that staff, all those things, to recreate that in the free market is hard, you know that that is just a harder thing. And yeah, that's, I think I can leave it right there. But that that jump is hard to make. And and the payoff that they return that a public radio audience, a public radio station is not looking for the same kind of return that Spotify is, you know, who has shareholders and what have you, those are all factors that might not be congruent. Which
David Yas 44:50
is why you wonder if the future of entertainment podcasts might be more of the companion podcasts which, you know when there's a great documentary on Netflix there's bound to be a podcast talking about that documentary. Right? And and I know a lot of just about every TV show you can imagine these days has Longo is big on that. Yeah, they launched a companion official companion podcast. And those I imagine are a cheap way to, to squeeze some more revenue out of your, your product because simply because those those podcasts aren't so produced up with the sound editing everything you were talking about Johnny, those are just two people hashing it out typically. Right?
Johnny Podcasts 45:35
And I think there's a lot of room for that for the, you know, the non HBO people that they hire, if you're really passionate about Game of Thrones, or what's the new one? Gilded Age. Now the one that's one season, I don't know the Game of Thrones spin off, if you're like a big fan, Oh, how's the dragon? If you're a big house of the Dragon fan, don't feel like that you can't do a podcast about that. Like, there's so much opportunity out there for you to talk about what you're passionate about. A lot of the stuff that we're working on is like, you know, it's their business or it's their brand. It's like branding for their company and stuff. You can stick the the the room for passion projects, or passion podcasts. I think it's just so massive. I don't think enough people take advantage of that. Johnny, well,
Matt Cundill 46:17
I have you here, can you grade this, because you said that YouTube was going to try to improve their audio only experience, I'd give
Johnny Podcasts 46:23
myself a D and a visit with a teacher after class.
David Yas 46:27
See me. So
Johnny Podcasts 46:29
one on the positive note, you know, they're integrating the RSS feed, that's great. And they're giving an opportunity for the footage an opportunity at the most, they're giving an opportunity for their RSS feed. But it's like Kathryn said at the beginning of the YouTube is just such a behemoth. There's just so much content out there that it's it is just, I would dare say impossible to succeed on YouTube with an audio only product. I think it's great for the discovery, like we've mentioned before, but you know, you're you just can't compete, you got to you got to have the really nice video, and you got to have the thumbnails. And it's all just, it's all it's its own thing. And I would say I failed in that regard.
Jon Gay 47:06
I want to push back on you on that a little bit. Johnny, I think you can be successful audio only on YouTube. Because there are a number of podcasts that people consume, you know, they've got their spreadsheets that they're looking at in one tab while YouTube's open or another tab, or they've got YouTube playing through CarPlay on their car while they're driving and they're not looking at it. I think in a perfect world, everybody would have the video and it would look great. And it's having the video is certainly better than not. But I wouldn't go so far as to say you can't be successful with audio only on YouTube. That's just my opinion.
Johnny Podcasts 47:37
I accept that.
Matt Cundill 47:38
I also don't think it's fair that you should like have to see the teacher after class because YouTube doesn't know what they're doing.
Jon Gay 47:45
That's fair. That is that point is fair. I have
David Yas 47:48
a prediction for 2024. YouTube will continue to not know what they're doing.
Matt Cundill 47:53
Well, you know what, but maybe Johnny's prediction is just a little bit too soon. And YouTube does figure it out. And they create an audio experience. And we're all sitting here next year. laughing at ourselves.
Jon Gay 48:04
He's playing the hit before it's a hit. Matt,
Matt Cundill 48:06
that's That's it. Exactly. You're too early. David,
David Yas 48:12
no, sir.
Matt Cundill 48:14
You're gonna see a lot of these types of apps race for the ultimate solution to Script app. Because you noticed many months ago that you can click and make audiograms said
Johnny Podcasts 48:24
Yeah, name is trying to do that to there. I had a call with them. And they're there. They're trying to do everything like hosting, recording editing public, it's just it's it's it's a massive undertaking. So
Matt Cundill 48:35
maybe you could ring the bell? You got an A on this.
David Yas 48:37
Okay. Yeah. Well, I was gonna say that I just predicted the race. I didn't predict the race would be over. And I don't think the race is over yet. And yeah, we talked, you know, descript continues descriptors getting more complicated. I still use it all the time, but it is trying to be everything. And Jack, I know you've you've maybe you should speak to this because you're used disk, I
Johnny Podcasts 49:00
think Jack is the best descriptor out of all of us.
Jon Gay 49:03
I think David's probably the most experienced and probably therefore the best, but I will but I will say I have played with the script. I mean, up to David's prediction here them acquiring dis squad cast was certainly a big deal in 2023. That's what I haven't explored. You know, as as an avid squad cast user, I get a little nervous because the descript UX can be very wonky at times. And I'm going to not be thrilled when squad cast goes away as a standalone app and folds into the script, ostensibly sometime in 2024. descript has a lot of great features and we kind of bagged on them a little bit in this group because this can be frustrating when they push an update every day and something doesn't work quite right etc etc. That said they are constantly working to improve these features and become sort of an all in one solution I've created you know, audio grams from videos on description now there, there are a lot of things descript can do. Is it perfect no Are any of them perfect? No. And I think for all five have us and anybody listening that produces podcasts or consuming watching that we all have our own secret sauce. And we are always trying to have, you know, we've got all these things in the culture. And we're trying to a dash of this and a dash of that and trying to get the ingredient ratios just right. Okay, how much joy is chapter GPT? How cheap PT is it? How much do I use this? How much do I use this script? How much do I use Riverside squad cast, decipher AI all of these different tools. And as they're all evolving, unfortunately, it's on all of us and all of our audience to constantly be reevaluated and seeing what works best and what combination.
Matt Cundill 50:38
I remember when squad cast 5.0 came out and it was horrible. And then they fixed it, and got really good. And I'm hoping that the same people who did that magic with squad cast had been retained by the script to to get it up to up to snuff.
David Yas 50:54
Yeah, not yet.
Matt Cundill 50:56
Not yet with the script, but I've actually hired a person, you just work with this descript thing and make some nice things for me. Hi.
Jon Gay 51:04
Good to see them. Sorry,
David Yas 51:06
I was just gonna say quickly was it was a similar dynamic when they switched, demoted, 2.0 and descript. Oh my god, a worse day. But it's got it has gotten a lot better it get I feel like it gets a little better week by week.
Jon Gay 51:18
My prediction for 2024 is that we will have Ariel in this implant as a guest on this podcast from descript slash squad cast. Okay, that's going to make a call. I'll make a call
Matt Cundill 51:30
free free squad cast and descript for everyone. Oh, this one's not very exciting. Podcasting. 2.0 is on its own trajectory. It's just happening. It's just gonna happen on its own. There's no real prediction with the whole thing. Other than I mean, that's
Johnny Podcasts 51:47
out there. It's a fair prediction. It's it's happening just at a much slower pace.
Matt Cundill 51:52
I would probably say even slower than I thought. I
Jon Gay 51:56
will give you a lot of credit here. Matt, you are, I think of the five of us and everybody feel free to agree disagree. You I think we're on the cutting edge of what's coming next in podcasting. The most of anybody in this group, I think you are really have your thumb on the pulse of a lot of things. I think you played the hit again too early with, with with podcasting 2.0 I respect you immensely. And when you said this was a thing, I kind of looked at it a little bit, but for me, it just not you but the platform just never landed with Satoshis and making donations to to listeners and using other apps. It to me it was like, Okay, I don't have the bandwidth to deal with this right now. If it gets big, I'll look at it later. But I'm not interested in it right now to be a little blunt.
Matt Cundill 52:35
Yeah. And I think because we hear so much podcasting 2.0. And it's, you know, it is about Satoshis and crypto or whatever you want to pass around it, we don't look at the other stuff that we really want to have in there such as, you know, transcription, you know, the captions going by on the phone so you can read them. What about a local podcast? You know, oh, what are the podcasts that are playing in my area right now than I would be able to, or that are at least featured in my area? So Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where the podcasts from there? What about live podcasts? What podcasts are live right now on my phone that I can listen to? I know the fountain app offers that. I think these are all things that I would love to see. But unfortunately, none of it is going to move until you know maybe an apple or a Spotify begins to add in some of this stuff. So I know we talk a lot about you know, swapping value back and forth, because that's all we really hear. But it's so much more than that. And hopefully people do embrace it in some capacity. And I would love to have oh, I want to listen to a live podcast right now in the car. That's radio. That's cool. Yeah. Well, so we stick our necks out for 2024.
David Yas 53:53
Yes, let's do it. Alright, Fortune favors the bold.
Matt Cundill 53:56
David, what is your big podcast prediction for 2024? Well, just
David Yas 54:03
to maybe be a little bit of a change of pace, I'll sort of think smaller in that. I think more and more small businesses, individuals, those podcasts will continue to grow this year, because more and more they will become an efficient and smart replacement or alternative to things like blogs, newsletters, redoing your website, and in some cases, even networking. So you know, I just had a lawyer start a podcast and he's excited about the prospect of having people on as guests that are important contacts of his and that are potential clients of his maybe. And I can tell that he enjoys it so much more than something like you know, writing another blog post or trying to get a published article. Those things I think will continue to be less cost effective, and frankly, less fun. So for the small companies, you know, some I mean, big companies will continue to do them as well, but small companies, you know, entrepreneurs, and I've been doing podcasts for a long time, but it's just going to become more and more of an essential tool in that whole marketing networking arsenal for someone trying to develop their brand.
Matt Cundill 55:19
Catherine, what do you have? I've
Catherine O'Brien 55:21
got one that is sensible. And then once that one is a little spicier, I'm just gonna say that my my sensible prediction for 2024 is that we're there's going to be a big move to Know thy audience. Because audience growth is where it's at, especially as things are getting more and more niche more and more narrow, who you are talking to is going to be much, much more important than anything else, who you're aiming your podcast tool is going to be important. There's going to be a lot more talk about doing client, a core customer, audience member avatars, where you're trying to assess what are their needs, what are their wants, what are their pain points, and then have your podcast address those things. So I think that just that we're, as we're accepting these new realities about podcasting, knowing exactly who you're talking to who you're aiming to speak to is going to be more and more important. And then we'll bring Johnny back who's done some things like with the existing audience surveys, and using those kinds of tools to really grow the audience. And to be a little spicy, I am going to predict that we're going to see a little retconning a little retroactive continuity for the video issue. I predicted that some of our experts in the podcast industry are going to pretend that they've been promoting video for the longest time. And that what I was indicating before about maybe some podcasters really being a little bit behind. I admit that, you know, I was in there, too, because I was believing that Oh, no, you know, that's not video and and podcasting are two different things. I think that there's going to be a little bit of a cover up from people pretending that they've been advocating for this for very long time.
Johnny Podcasts 57:08
That conspiracy, you'd say.
Matt Cundill 57:13
What do you got Johnny?
Johnny Podcasts 57:14
I will predict that there's going to be a race. Again, David predicted a race last year. I think that there's going to be another race this year. And this race is going to be amongst the social media apps. There are too many social media apps vying for our attention 24/7 The goal for them this year is how can we keep the user only on our app, and I will predict that x is going to win this battle of how can I consume all of a person's content that I follow in one place, their written text, aka their tweets, their full length, video podcasts, their short form content, and their audio content, their podcasts, Live Live Spaces, whatever I think that I think that X has the best chance of creating such a platform that includes a creator dashboard looks like YouTube where you can upload all of your content their views, statistics, your downloads, things like that, as well as actually create and publish all of the content there as well.
Catherine O'Brien 58:15
Yeah, subscribers sorry, one thing Jen paid subscribers and get paid subscribers. Jack
Jon Gay 58:22
i My prediction is that in terms of overall listenership podcasts will overtake am FM talk radio, spoken word audio spoken word radio formats. The yes spoken word audio report that I just pulled up here from Edison Research this year. In 2014, podcasts represented 13% of spoken word audio consumption, am FM radio is 78%. And 2020 3am. FM radio was down to 44% podcasts or up to 36%. I think in 2024, this is the year that overall podcast surpasses talk radio.
Matt Cundill 59:01
Wow. Okay. Did you just announced the death of radio would we hold a funeral what happens next?
Catherine O'Brien 59:08
That wasn't already happening? No, that
Jon Gay 59:10
was that was the eulogy. The Time of death was called a while ago.
Matt Cundill 59:15
So I have a prediction. I just don't see it happening by the end of 2024. It will probably happen early 2025. And we are going to redefine the download and the metrics. And we're going to find a way to get all of your Twitter all of your YouTube and all of your downloads amalgamated into one number. I don't know that we'll call it a download. But we're gonna fight we're gonna find a way to do it so that we can, you know, get a determination of the call the consump the consump it's already we already see a push on right now for impressions, which is kind of a silly word anyway, but something's gonna something's going to shift with the download. It's either going to be moved into something that is a little more palpable, yeah, understood and something that's a little bit more saleable. But I think it's 18 months away and not necessarily 12. That's it, folks. Anything else? Happy new year.
Johnny Podcasts 1:00:13
I'm excited to revisit these next year and see how right or wrong we were.
Catherine O'Brien 1:00:18
Oh, and I predict. I when I was watching it, I realized I'm wearing the exact same shirt I was wearing about. I will be wearing Yeah.
Jon Gay 1:00:27
Is it a different scar? Then you're good.
Sarah Burke (Voiceover) 1:00:33
Thanks for listening to the podcast, Super Friends. For a transcript of the show, or to connect with the Superfriends. Go to the show notes of this episode, or go to soundoff dot Network.
