How To Launch A Podcast

Welcome to the podcast Super Friends.

five podcast producers from across North America get together to discuss podcasting.

Welcome to the podcast.

Super Friends Once again, hope you enjoyed this show.

It's kind of podcasting one oh one podcasting stuff going on in the industry and the five super friends come to you from around the northern hemisphere.

I will introduce them actually, I'll let them introduce themselves Matt Kendall.

You are the first in the Hollywood squares on my screen.

So could you please let us know who you are there?

Matt Kendell, the sound off Media company located in Winnipeg Canada where it is minus 30 Celsius, which comes out to like minus 10 F or something.

Do not recommend we move south across the globe all the way down to johnny podcast johnny, how are we?

Who are you?

We're good.

I have johnny podcasts and reporting live from fort worth texas where we're getting our yearly three days of snow and the entire city gets you know, two or three days off of work, which is nice because no one here has ever invested in snow tires regardless though I'm a podcast, audio engineer and video producer and I'm ready to just dive deep into the basics of launching a podcast.

We skip on over to the big easy where one of my favorite shows, your honor is taking place and um I assume that you're one of the stars of that show, Katherine.

But anyway, yes, so hello everybody, I'm Catherine o'brien from baton rouge Louisiana in baton rouge Louisiana and I'll tell you this, the weather here.

The temperature might not be so impressive.

It's 54 but it's humid and dank, dank like my memes, if I can tell you that Good one.

Well top that John We we've we've heard the weather I think already.

So John Jag gay uh maybe give us the sports.

Did the lines make the playoffs this year?

They really, I am john gay from Jag in Detroit podcasts and my serie watches answering my introduction, which is nice.

Uh So I believe in you can create a podcast without a studio, I can create a podcast for you with the comfort of your home or office without having to go to a big fancy studio and pay fees for it.

Very cool.

And my name is David Yaz, I am the founder and Ceo of the boston podcast network.

It's pod 617 dot com In boston mass.

We produce out of our Westwood Mass studios or anywhere around the globe remotely pod 617 dot com.

It's the boston podcast network in pod we trust that's branding, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

We're just creating a podcast today on the show.

The topic is how to start a podcast.

And so before we start with some of the stuff that you're probably dying to know like which, which overpriced microphone.

Am I should I not buy on amazon or stuff like that, let's start where it all begins with an idea.

So if you have an idea for a podcast, we hope you're passionate about it.

We hope you've given it some thought, but there are some things, there's some things you should know that you maybe shouldn't do in some directions you should navigate towards Catherine.

Let's start with you.

What, what should you be thinking about when you get that first germ of an idea or when you're annoying friends, tell you you should really have a podcast, by the way.

Has anybody ever said to somebody else?

You should start a podcast?

Is everybody just like they're telling themselves you should start a podcast.

They have this hope in this dream podcasting, that's fine.

You don't lets you can sure, somebody told you to start a podcast, sure, we'll believe that.

Well, hey, if you are wanting to start a podcast, the very first thing that I would suggest and I'm sure that my podcast super friends would also get in suggest as well is if you you really have to have the idea of your show, what your show is and who it is for really hammered out before you hit that launch button.

And the reason for this is as David was just saying, before we started here a show about nothing has been done.

Seinfeld has that book, you cannot, you cannot say your show about nothing.

And also if you are a show for everybody, then you are really a show for nobody.

And those are two sort of Adages that we really stick by.

So it's great to have a concept that is well thought out and I have a couple of tips for people on how to really make sure that they have a concept together.

And the first thing is you should really probably think about having a podcast mission or a podcast mission statement even now, of course, as you podcast, as you do more episodes that can evolve and change down the line, but if you're able to crystallize the idea down into a couple of sentences that's gonna be really formative and helpful for you to make sure that you understand what you're trying to achieve and it's going to be kind of give you all a lot of direction on how you're going to structure your show, who you're gonna talk to, what you're going to talk about.

So that podcast mission statement seems like it's like a little bit of a cheesy throwaway, but it's actually very helpful.

And the second thing I would really recommend that people do in the sort of the concept stage is try to come up with a podcast tagline now, I think that podcast taglines are really important because they are away just again, that crystallized idea, but if you use a tagline in what you're talking about, it actually is telling the audience a way to describe your show.

So like for example if I say to to johnny, hey johnny, what is the pod logic show about helping podcasters become better podcasters?

That's a perfect tagline that instantly tells me what that show is about.

So that tells me that johnny has done the homework of like what is he talking about and then if I listen to his show, I'm able, if the more I hear that tagline repeated, I'm actually able to use that tag line to describe the show to other people.

So it's really about crystal your ideas and getting the words, the concept from this messy idea into actually actual words that can be articulated.

So those are my two right off the bat.

If you've got an idea, your hype, you're ready to go get that mission statement and get that tag line together.

It's a great exercise to try to put that into a tagline which can also by the way, become the first thing you say on the show.

Welcome to pod logic.

It's the show where podcasters help others be better podcasters, johnny said it better than I did, but and off you go, if you if you, somebody asked you what your podcast is about and you say, oh well me and my friend are really funny and we cover a lot of ground, you're in trouble, turn back, turn back now um johnny, let's go to you further thoughts on Katherine's thoughts and the concept for the show.

Yeah and I love that all five of us are gonna be able to chime in on this because we all work with such different levels of clientele.

So we've all been involved in dozens and dozens of show launches.

And so we all come at it with a different perspective.

So the lens that I view this through is I do a lot of business podcast, a lot of interview style podcasts, clients or potential clients will come to me and one of the first things I asked them off the bat when they want to start a podcast is I say, what's the goal of this show?

Why are we doing it?

And so not only should like it's sort of a wrinkle within the tag line that you have are your podcast, mission statement that Catherine was touching on.

You need to have a goal for the show and uh, unfortunately a lot of people's goals are, I want to have 10,000 downloads, I want to be the next joe Rogan.

I want to be a famous podcaster.

It's a fine goal to have.

You can have that as your goal.

But let's make that your sub goal.

Let's, let's get to step, let's get to step one.

Before we get to step two.

We gotta crawl before we can run the first goal that you should have really is something that's tangible.

You, we talk about these smart goals, things that are actionable that are reachable that are trackable.

Um, and again through the ones that I'm looking at it is these business style podcasts and the way that I try to structure, help them think about their goal is is this going to drive listeners to become customers of your business?

Is this going to turn guests into clients?

Is this going, are we trying to get the audience to do something?

Are we trying to get more notoriety for our business?

Are we trying to establish ourselves as thought leaders in our industry, maybe there aren't a lot of podcasts in the industry that we play in and we want to be the first people and really establish ourselves in this sort of media production world.

So that's step one is to have your, your, your goal for the show.

And then from there we want to think about what kind of podcast is is going to be and there's several different iterations and you don't have to stick to one style of podcasting.

Do you want to be a solo podcast or where you're gonna be think of like the dr Andrew Huberman podcast where he just meticulously details and researchers out uh a topic or an idea and just rants about it for two hours, going over data points, going over studies going off of his own expertise.

Or do you want to do an interview style podcast where there's gonna be multiple voices and once you start to flesh out these ideas, you really start to get the vision of this podcast coming together and you go and take the next steps to actually making it a reality.

How about um from the great White North matt, could you translate all that into Canadian for our listeners up there?

Um no, your, your thoughts matt on concept.

I usually ask, okay, what does episode 12 and three sound like, because I think that sort of shows that they've thought about, what the podcast is about and what it's going to sound like, and then I say, Okay, what does episode 10 sound like?

Because it has to keep going at some point?

Right.

And so once you get through that thought process and if the answer is come back quickly, you know that they thought about it and you know, you've got a concept that you can build around.

But those first three episodes followed by, you know, what's the 10th episode, what is episode 50 something like?

So, I think that's just something to sort of get people thinking about what the concept is all about, to make sure that it's aligned Jag, I'm gonna twist the question a little different for you.

What if you are a guest driven podcast, you're gonna have terrific guests and do terrific interviews on this podcast and you've got, I've got three or four people in mind that are going to kick it off with the first few episodes, what advice would you give to that person in terms of planning to UNtwist it David?

Because I had a really good point.

I wanted to make people try to tie it back together.

So one of my radio mentors who his name was, Ben Hambleton, He was a sociopath.

He was a terrible human being, but he really knew radio and he told us when we were doing a radio show that doing a radio show or in this case a podcast is like driving a nascar.

Excuse me.

All you gotta do is do your work in the pit.

When the right turns green, all you gotta do is drive the car.

So you want to think about your who what, when, where, why, who's gonna be on your show to your point?

David is a guest.

Is it solar driven?

Is it just to host?

What's the show about?

When are you going to record it?

As in how often where are you going to record it in person?

Virtual from a closet from uh studio, from your office?

Why?

Why?

Why to everybody's point they've made already so far.

Why are you doing this podcast?

So who what when, where, why have that in place before you start?

And then when the light turns green, all you gotta do is drive the car and make adjustments as the situation warrants.

That is so important to just plan it out ahead of time.

The the hardest part is starting a podcast.

So there are some people out there who will say turn the mic on and go and just whatever you end up with, you can do that but your quality is really gonna suffer.

Yeah, I think the problem is the podcast that we have fallen in love with, The ones that have national acclaim often feature the personalities on the podcast chit chatting at the very beginning and showing off how well they get along uh the smartness podcast which many people have probably heard of with three actors slash comedians is a great podcast.

They have great guests and they do a little bit of chit chat but don't pretend you're them, you can't you don't have the audiences of these national stars somewhere down the line and throughout your personality.

And if you have a co host that will come out.

But that can't be the whole show.

It can't be.

Oh, me and my buddies are so funny.

We talk about sports and beer and movies and no, no, that's not enough.

I like to give the example of uh you should have a podcast which is, do you know what they do podcast.

If you're describing a great podcast to someone, you'll often say, do you know what they do?

They go back in time and they find this disease and they researched the history of the disease and they tell you how it started.

And it's always super interesting.

There is a podcast like that.

I don't know what it's called and I haven't listened to it, but it's a great idea for a podcast.

It's something specific that you can put in a box and the reason I brought the thing with guests is the five people on this call.

I think we'll find this pattern very um familiar and that is that you a client of ours comes out with a great idea for a podcast.

They book the first three guests.

First three episodes are great and the fourth episode comes along is, oh, I'm gonna need an extra week for that one.

Do you think it's okay if we skip a week?

Okay, but try to get back on track to your regular cadence, consistency is important.

And then another month goes by, oh, you know what, I couldn't get anybody this whole month, everyone's uh christmas vacation or something.

Um so you should have a plan and if possible have a backup plan.

If you don't have a guest, is there someone you can bring in as a filling?

Can you do it up with your co host without a guest.

If that's part of your plan, then good.

But if you don't have, and if you, if you are going to go guest guest, guest guest do the simple thing, get a spreadsheet, share the google doc with your co host and plan and and really, and book people out as far as you can get ahead of the game uh agreed.

Does the panel agree?

Yeah.

Um you know, the number 11 tune out factor as far as I'm concerned for a podcast is bad audio, we'll get to that later.

But for me the number to tune out factor is endless banter at the beginning of the show and inside jokes and you come on with your co host and say, hey, try the great, great new breakfast place around the corner.

Nobody outside a two mile radius knows, oh, you know, it's freezing cold and up and up north here today.

Well if somebody goes back and listen to this in six months, that's not going to be relevant in july, which is exactly the way we started out this show.

No, do as we do as we say, not as myself, but, but most importantly, you want to start out strong.

Tell me why you're listening to the podcast.

You don't have to come up with a massive excitement teaser at the beginning.

But tell me what you're going to talk about in that post, whether it's with that tagline or with a teaser for the contents coming up, take a 12th clip of something from later or just tell me in 10 seconds what you're going to cover that day.

Tell me why to stick around.

We have the attention span of a goldfish and if you don't give me a reason, that 1st 10, 30 seconds, stick around.

I'm onto the next and a lot of it is just framing If you say you have a movie review podcast and you say welcome to the movie show, whatever.

That's a great name for a podcast, the movie show and this is the podcast where we tell you about three upcoming films.

We play a little snippet and we give you the history of the actors involved and we tell you whether or not you should see him.

If you say that up front, then maybe you can get away with a little chit chat after that because the audience knows the first review is coming and it better be coming pretty soon by the way.

Alright, we go ahead.

Are you sure?

No?

Okay, I will say it.

I'm gonna say it, you know, one thing I've thought about many of the issues with launching, we're talking to people who are going to launch a podcast Now, some of these things that we've talked about, like the banter and all that older podcasts can get away with it because podcasting had a novelty, I don't think that the novelty is the same now that it was for some of these podcasts that they got into a habit of how their shows started or just the all those things with the co host and whatever.

So part maybe maybe the grain of salt that you can take with some of the things that we're saying is that we're trying to talk about launching a podcast now in the present where podcasting is right now.

So hopefully that will kind of be a little bit more of the update to some of these, these concepts that we're sharing.

I think it's very true, you know, depending on what state you believe, two million podcasts there now.

So now more than ever have a point as steve martin screamed to john candy in planes, trains and automobiles.

Here's an idea when you tell a story, have a point.

You mean spirited about it, but refine that point, find your niche because by the way, just because your podcast on the internet doesn't mean anyone's gonna listen to it and I mean anyone, I mean if you put that, it will get to this in a minute building audience, but it is hard to build an audience.

So don't start from behind the eight ball with the show that is just murky and why am I listening to this?

All right.

We um, Jag you teased the idea of audio quality.

Why don't we start with you on this topic?

Because it, it is something, it is another thing that can sink your podcast within the first 5 to 7 seconds and tell us why Jack and then give us your surefire advice for microphones and sound quality, true story.

I had a potential client that I was speaking to today and he said, hey, I, I already got my hands on a Blue Yeti.

I want to get started with a podcast and I said the first thing you do with that Blue Yeti is you throw it in the trash.

And I think everybody on this call will agree with me.

We've had many conversations ad nauseam about the Blue Yeti, but for anybody listening on the audience who is not familiar with it, the Blue Yeti is the worst marketed uh sorry, best marketed worst product out there as johnny.

If you're watching the video is modeling one that looks like it has a layer of dust over it.

Um and we're gonna come to this tweet from matt here in a second.

But the Blue Yeti is a condenser microphone, which means it is built to take in all of the sound around you, all over the room including the dog barking outside and the person screaming in the next office.

You want to go with a dynamic microphone which we're all using on this call which is built to pick up just your voice and less of the background around you, dynamic microphone like the Samsung Q to you is much better than the reason Matt has pulled up this tweet.

We talked about this offline before our call today, there are some folks who would say use a microphone that has an XLR connection, which is that fat little three pin connection you see with a microphone cord as opposed to a USB.

My answer to that and I'll defer to the group on this but uh X.

L.

R.

S are marginally better quality than a USB microphone, 95 plus percent of the population will not notice a difference.

If you're just starting out, you can go with the simple cheap USB before you worry about buying more equipment.

If you have a budget and you can get a nice fancy XLR microphone, great, A USB will work fine but just go dynamic and not condenser is my key takeaway.

I agree with Tessa on this thread a little bit, at least with her first microphone recommendation if you want to split the difference and you do have the ability and this is where you this is part of touching back on the content side of things.

Is is this going to be in person or is this gonna be a remote style podcast?

If you, if you're in the middle?

Somewhere you go, I might do some in person, I might do some remote Tessa's recommendation.

A couple of tweets down is the Shure MV seven and it's a great sounding microphone that offers both USB and XLR ability, if you can get a microphone that offers both.

And again, there are cheaper options.

The Samson Q to you, The 8 21 100 X that offer both.

So if you are gonna, you know, thinking about your microphone strategy, that's a great thing to think about is the XLR and USB combo because you can do both.

You can go online and you don't have to buy a USB audio interface, you can do both either way.

I just want to read the tweet for the, for the audio audience and the tweet from texas says that if you're buying a microphone and are starting out with making content, please stop buying USB microphones period.

Especially yet I'm begging of you, please give this a read and there's a threat.

And if you'd like to connect to the tweet, I've put it in the show notes of the episode for the, for the audio audience, see um I would push back on the USB thing as as jag and maybe this whole panel kind of wood because we're here, if you're really just coming to our to us today and seeking advice on starting a podcast and you're starting at square one, a USB mic is as uh I think Jag said perfectly fine and if you plug in that, some of the ones we've mentioned, the, I know the Samson Q to you is Jack I noticed on sale for $55 last week on, on amazon and you want something to plug plug into your laptop and you connect with someone by zoom, you can do a perfectly good podcast that way and it will, it will sound mostly professional.

Um if we're, if, you know, we follow the letter of the law of our screaming twitter poster there and we absolutely don't want USB that is a step up.

You guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but that requires, as you said, johnny buying a a different piece, either a mixing board, you know, you can, if you really want to go all out and you know, you just hit the water or something and you want to put it into very layman's terms, like we're just like you're just going to your absolute basics, I'm gonna get this, this is the blue Yeti, by the way, I'm gonna get this out of the way, I actually zoomed in on you just so we can see this is the relic of all my sales calls where they say, oh I have a mic and I go, is it this one anyway, so essentially for for the layman, just, we're talking absolute basics, you've never started a podcast, you have no clue what you're doing when we're talking about XLR versus U S B.

You really only need to buy one extra piece of equipment, there's tons of options out there, but they're essentially called USB audio interfaces.

So this is the XLR cable here, it's gonna go into another box.

That box will then plug into your computer, that's how you are able to use the microphone.

It sounds a lot more complicated than what we're talking about, but again, it is more expensive, I think of it as a cable box converter, you're converting XLR to USB that converter box is generally 100 bucks or less.

Um, so if you you want to go XL are you absolutely can, it's a matter of what your price point is.

If you can I would tell you if you had an unlimited budget, spend $400 on a shore sm seven B like this one or a electro voice ari 20 microphone that uses radio studios for Catherine like that $400 microphone.

Or if you want to go middle of the road, 250 for the short Mv seven like johnny says or if you really are just kind of you can't commit to a lot of money to this right now because it's a little bit of a you want to start off for 60 bucks or 55 I think David said that Samson Q two you will work as well.

XLR will send a little bit better.

It's a matter if you have it in your budget to you know, it's the law of diminishing returns I think.

And let me just can I throw in my my one.

I am begging everybody if you have the blue yeti it is a side address microphone.

Yes, it is a side you're not speaking into the end of it.

It is a side addressed microphone.

This message has been brought to you by producers who retired pulling out all the explosives from your podcast now to be clear.

I I admit I've never heard that term before.

You mean you're talking into the side of it rather than the top, correct.

Okay, alright, that goes for all microphones, Whatever microphone you have, find out a google search will tell you is it side address or is it end address talking to the end or the side?

And you will sound so much better?

And again, this may sound obvious, but if you have a blue Yeti make sure you're talking into the correct side, not the wrong side.

I admit I've once gone like a full month talking to the wrong end and it was a good mike.

So it still sounded okay.

But one thing I went, wait a minute.

Oh my God.

Oh my God, there's a big difference.

And just to just to clarify, if you have a co host and you want to be in the same room together, which is better, which is certainly better for the chemistry and the energy of the show.

Uh you can't just go, you can't, well, you can probably but we wouldn't recommend taking to us and trying to plug them both into the same laptop.

It's a technical nightmare with the one exception of one company that that has actually just tried that with a client that actually works.

It's the road and T mini microphone comes with its own and software, which I just try with the client last week.

And it works.

But to your point, David, the the blue Yeti will say you can put this in the middle of the table and have four people around it.

No, you can't.

Well you can, but it will sound like hot garbage.

The great, the great thing about these microphones here.

So what I'm for the people watching and for the people listening, I'm holding up a tr 2100 X here and this is the Samson Q to you.

They're both XLR and USB microphones.

The great thing about these is what am I doing?

I don't need a boom arm for them.

I can hold them.

That makes them great for going off site.

If you're gonna be interviewing somebody, we're gonna travel somewhere for the podcast.

They're small, they're compatible.

They're inexpensive.

I can hand you one microphone, you can sit on one end of the couch, I can hold the other microphone and on the other end of the couch and we can have a great sounding podcast.

I'm seeing a lot more podcast nowadays, especially in the comedy side of podcast.

They've moved away from this whole boom arm setup, which is great to have not knocking it at all.

But they're going super back to basics of just holding it and talking because ultimately, at the end of the day, we can talk about having all of the great fancy stuff.

The content is what matters the most.

And this is going to get you, this is going to get your content out to the masses just as well as a microphone like this, sitting on a boom arm with all the fancy bells and whistles attached to it.

So something to consider johnny, you do that again and just say you, you're a great crowd where you're from over there, How long you guys been together?

There you go.

So you've started your pod, you've, you're about ready to record your first episode.

How much more do you need to plan?

Do you need to have a bunch of episodes in the can before you even launch?

Should you start with, should you book your best guest that you could possibly think of for episode number one?

Um matt, would you like to start with that topic?

So my advice with this.

If you're after listeners and you want downloads, I think the best thing to do is to load it up with three episodes and a trailer.

You should always have a trailer, you know, minute, minute and a half, two minutes, whatever it takes.

I mean the same way, like a big movie production comes out, it's a two minute trailer.

What is the show about?

What can we expect?

Having the three episodes there, there's a purpose for it and the purpose is that when people finish one episode they'll listen to the next one, followed by the next one, They might want to binge it a little bit.

The next thing that's really important is that to set the expectation for when these episodes are gonna be delivered.

So if you're gonna go every two weeks, don't wait two weeks after you've launched those first three episodes for the next one, do it the next week because we want people in the habit, we want to start to create that habit as quickly as possible.

The worst thing you can do is do a whole lot of marketing, launch it, put it out there and then give people time to forget about it.

Yeah, because they will then move on to the next thing and that, what do you think about also having episode, you have your three that you launched?

What about also being ahead of your release schedule?

We also, we've launched three.

So that way people can binge it.

But I also have the next two scheduled and ready to drop.

So I'm now four weeks out before I need to have another one recorded produced and ready to go.

So yes, I mean, that's always gonna be better, especially will give you time after the first three episodes to say, okay, let's see how this went.

What would be our next card to play.

It's kind of like playing cards, you know, there's some games up there where you're trying to get rid of your cards, you can decide what the next card is to play and what episode would really suit the stream next.

I'm a big believer and don't aim for perfection for episode number one.

I mean come out, this is your vision, so really have fun with it.

Have a great first episode, but as soon as you finish that first episode, you're gonna be thinking about things you can do differently and that's part of the fun is you can change from episode to episode, there's certain things you do want to remain consistent on.

I'm a big believer in the intro.

She doesn't have to remain same for the, until the end of time.

But that familiarity is going to be something, it's gonna be like vitamins to your audience, They're gonna keep coming back and taking their vitamins and if you change up their, their meds, then, you know, they could get um as long as the orange Flintstone vitamin, That was nasty.

That was Yes.

Another thing, another thing on, like you mentioned David, you said, um start with our a list guest, like maybe, you know, we're talking like high person in the industry or whatever.

Um what I usually recommend to clients is start if you're, especially if you're doing an interview based podcast, start with the people that you know really well, people that you're very familiar with, that you've had several, even tens of dozens of conversations with in the past.

No one starting out is this great broadcaster, I say this all the time.

No one is born a great broadcaster, save for the one, the top 1% of the 1%.

This is something that you have to practice and get better at.

And it is so much easier to do your first few episodes of actually having to host a show guide a conversation.

Make it interesting.

Make it informative with someone that you know, well versus someone that you're meeting them for the first time and you go, okay, welcome to the podcast.

Like it's you will you will eventually tap out on your immediate network of people that would be valuable to the audience that you're trying to create.

But by then you will have enough reps behind the microphone to where you feel comfortable interviewing somebody for the first time talking to them and matt's quote, that's popping up on screen for the audio listeners?

Your first five episodes will suck.

Do you want to elaborate on that a little more?

Yeah, I mean, I think everybody has a vision um in their mind about what the podcast is going to sound like and it never turns out that way.

I mean, I started mine and my first five episodes are horrible.

And I think even if you do a great job, you're it's going to change.

You get to 10 15 2025.

You look back at your first five episodes and go, you know what compared to what I have now?

Those suck.

So it's kind of inevitable that your first five episodes will suck, was it, isn't it Pat Flynn who says if you listen to your very first podcast and you don't cringe, then you probably did something wrong because you should be embarrassed.

You know, at episode 100 for what it was like in that very first one.

And I like to say version one is better than version none.

I have a single client that's got an episode 10 that looks back and goes, man, episode one was great.

It's True.

You will come out with so many great ideas, many of which you'll abandon along the way because you realized they weren't as great as you thought.

I'll give a quick example.

I do a music podcast called past tens and we, we look at the top 10 hits from a given day in the past.

And then I came up with this little feature, I go, wouldn't it be fun if we did this thing where we just look at the names of these 10 songs that you know from 1977 or something and we see if they fall into a certain category and we'll call it the hatta gory and we'll pull out uh idea from the hat.

And so we pull out the idea and it'll say slogans for Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, could these 10 songs be?

And then we went down and we Each one was either and I thought it was the most clever thing I had ever come up with.

I laughed through the whole thing after uh about you know, 50 or so episodes.

We had enough listeners where we could pull our audiences to what segments they liked.

Dead last category.

Dead last, no one cared.

And so you know what it was, I had to say goodbye to my baby, but you got to at some point you're going to develop an audience some point.

You gotta listen to him too.

This podcast supports podcasting.

2.0 if you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now, if you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at new podcast apps dot com.

So we haven't talked yet about zoom stream yard, which we, which we are on right now.

Squad cast river.

If you're going to use any of any of these online apps, what should you record on?

And if I'm just starting out, do I just open up like, I don't know.

It looks like my matt came with garageband.

Could that work or whatever.

What would be your advice?

Um Catherine, let's start with you on that one.

Well, you know, one thing I again, I just said version one is better than version nine.

I'll say that I personally, for my clients, I use zen caster for the remote recordings.

I do, I use a zoom or zoom the device not zoom the meeting, videoconferencing for doing things in person.

So it depends, it depends on the circumstance and I would say that for remote uh like I said, I know I've used zen caster, zen caster can be a little, I just, even today I had somebody had a compatibility issue or whatever.

I know some other people use other video uh services for recording their podcast.

I do notice and this is actually something we have not talked about as a group.

Is that a lot of our podcast, let's just say companies are now trying to be sort of like everything to all people.

A lot of our companies are trying to put together video recording and audio recording and hosting and distribution and monetizing all in one package.

So I'm kind of wondering how that's gonna be.

But for me in person, I use a zoom recorder and I use a mixing board to get all all all the different voices together.

And then I use zen caster when I'm doing remote recordings.

So what you're looking for.

Yes, no, that is that is good.

But I, I think we also want to speak to the people who don't have mixing boards.

So if they, you know, for whatever it's worth and you guys should chime in, you can record on a number of different pieces of software that just on your computer.

The Mac comes with garageband, there's nothing wrong with recording into that.

I mean, you can record using quicktime, right?

But um I think we would all advise for backups.

For example, if you're, you know, if you're recording using zen caster, which is one of these favorite online services.

Great.

Um, record something onto your hard drive as well.

I'm probably not describing that very well.

In here in here.

I had a, I had a situation today where I recorded a client and I use Squad Cast, that's my app of choice.

And for whatever reason the file wouldn't generate for one of the guests, fortunately Squad Cast records everything in the cloud backup.

So I was able to use the backup copy from the cloud as opposed to one that was recorded in session.

And I also, I have a mixing board and broadcaster here in my studio.

I also record onto the road caster.

So for every client podcast that I record, I have up to three versions of every recording because I don't want to be as the service provider.

The one that caught my pants down figuratively to say, hey sorry, we got to do it again.

I don't have your audio.

So you know, if there is a way to easily record a backup version for each person, um, we call that a double ender original Before some of these, these, these services came in where you've got each person on each side of the remote conversation recording low.

So they have their own copy that's going to be the most authentic copy that said squad cast, riverside zen caster.

Those are the big three.

Um, and then zoom in an absolute pinch.

If you have somebody who is just not tech savvy and they only learn zoom in the pandemic.

I say you can use zoom as a last resort, as long as you have your settings right?

Which is to use original audio and have each guest on a separate track.

And why does that setting on zoom say original audio, four musicians.

Now, have you noticed that I've updated that so that it says because the idea they've had people playing music over zoom again, largely in covid and a little bit since, you know, whether it's a record artist, you know, doing a show for a radio station online or something.

So that was, they tried to make that more clear because it was original sound on or off.

Nobody quite knew what that meant.

You want to use that original sound.

So you have the more authentic sound as opposed to that uh, pixelated zoom e type sound.

That's very classic of a tech company.

Oh, you needed this feature in 2020 here.

It is in 2023 um, to kind of simplify everything that we've talked about.

So uh, like Jack said, you can, you can have like up to three backups of each recording if we're just talking about very basic double ending.

If you're not using one of these platforms that's automatically recording it, but you or even if you are, but you still want a local recording that you know is gonna hold up quicktime player is your absolute best option.

One of my, one of my on I believe it's on pc as well, you can download it.

Um but you're right, it is majority for max.

So one of my clients uh is recording on riverside but he also has quick time opened up in a very small window in the corner recording his audio as a backup.

And it is a very simple thing to do.

All you do is just turn the little volume bar on quick time.

You'll see it as soon as you pull it up there's a volume slider just turn that all the way down, make sure your mic input is set, hit record and then do everything you need to do on your other recording platform and you will always have a reliable backup for you.

Can I can I ask does everybody who does something in person?

Like I maybe I'm maybe I'm anachronistic here.

Like I use the zoom recorder in person.

Does everybody use software or are they using an actual recorder?

I can touch on this a little more because I'm doing a ton of, I'm doing more in person stuff and I think I think Jack does some in person stuff as well.

David to actually might be able to touch on this better but for my in person stuff I have it recording to a mixing board that is also a recorder, The zoom live track L.

A.

That is recording all of the audio.

That box needs to be powered somewhere.

So I just run that to my Mac that Mac also has logic pulled up or which is the paid version of garageband and it's recording everything as well.

So if for whatever reason the box stops recording or whatever reason logic peters out.

I have another recording happening at the same time, but David, I think the majority of your stuff is in person.

Yeah.

So in my studio I do have the, well I don't know if it's the cadillac because on the one hand it is the first mixing board made specifically for podcasters.

The road caster plus, which which um doesn't go for 600 bucks these days.

About 100.

On the one hand, it's it's a revelation.

On the other hand, it's it's also made for dummies, it's very easy to use.

So if you do have the budget for that, I recommend it.

And I uh jag you you told me you did this, I started following you instead of using the road caster as a backup.

I use it as my primary recording because that way I know everything that's coming into my board is being recorded and I will use, I admit I use zoom because I I when I like the ease of scheduling everybody in the world knows how to use zoom now.

So for um especially if it's a guest that's a one timer.

Just get on zoom that way.

They're they're coming into my board.

Um and then I can clean up the audio later if necessary.

I use uh descript, it's one we haven't mentioned yet.

It is um I think we all love it to certain various degrees.

It is worth exploring.

It is, I won't say it's terrifically easy to use, but once you get the hang of it, it is a transcription app, but also an editing app.

And you can open the app, you can hit the little microphone icon and start recording anyone who's coming through your board, anyone who's coming through zoom and there's a feature on there called studio sound.

It's so good.

I almost don't want to tell everybody about it, Jack, tell me about it.

But can I interrupt you there, David, because the studio sound, the script is frequently updating that software and I have had an issue lately where um they overcompensated for siblings and they cut off S.

S.

And I've had a number of recordings that I've run through studio sound where the S.

S.

Have dropped off.

So free, you're using a service like that.

Please don't set it and forget it.

You'll want to check your audio and you might have to mix and match the original audio and the and the finished audio to not lose any letters.

That's a real caution everything, let our listeners and viewers know about it happened to me once to the, someone said to me, your guest sounded like they had a lisp.

Like does that person have a lisp or a stutter or something?

I was like no.

And I listened and I presume they fixed that jag because yeah, that was unfortunate.

There's a, there's a second secondary one that I'll mention while we're on the topic and that is adobe.

Adobe now has adobe podcasts and they have played with it and the link is podcast dot adobe dot com and they have a tool that will enhance your audio as well.

Um, and that is a tool that I have been using lately and I'll share that with our listeners as well.

So it's a podcast dot adobe dot com.

They have some cool tools there.

They also have a mic check there as well if you want, but you're setting up a call and we weren't sure if you got the right mike selected or you're not close enough to far away.

It was a free mic check tool on there at podcast dot adobe dot com.

Adobe?

Not a sponsor of the podcast.

Super friends.

If you want to be mentioned again.

Adobe call our people pronto matt.

Did you want to come in on any of this technical stuff or we move on.

Um, Katherine.

Yeah, I use a zoom H five when I recorded in person.

I've actually just loaned it out to a client right now.

That's what I'm comfortable with.

I tried doing some radio imaging on it.

It's not good for that.

So don't do that.

Um, you know, I think any one of those platforms, I think there's a lot of discussion in the squad cast versus riverside versus um, zen caster.

You know, they're all great.

Um, they're always working to, to better their products.

Uh, the only flag I have is when a client says I'm going to do them on zoom and I said, well, okay, we have to have a talk.

And the talk is, is that, you know, between a weak internet connection can really sink this.

And I haven't really heard a podcast that was done on zoom that didn't sound like it was recorded on zoom.

Nobody likes to hear that.

But I say it anyway.

I uh, I just, I just said this is the backbone of his business is built on recording.

I don't use the zoom.

The recording that become that the zoom app actually records that, that is my backup.

But I will use zoom to connect and to me if if the person and this is maybe a good takeaway from this whole discussion is if you're connecting remotely with someone, half the battle is whatever microphone they have on the other end.

If they're just talking, you didn't have one right there just talking to their computer.

I mean no matter what app you use, it's not gonna help.

Although I will say that the reason these guys are fighting me on zoom is zoom doesn't won't record your guest on their end and therefore it will be fuzzy to some degree.

So I I um you know, I surrender, I don't have a white flag to listen.

People do not listen to the podcast and can pick that out the way I do.

I'm the only like I can hear that, but I'm not like most listeners and the real quick explanation tech wise, what David is saying is zoom records it over the internet.

These others then cast the riverside squad, cast platforms, they record your audio locally and then upload it after it's recorded, which is why is to matt point.

If you have a weak internet connection and you have the buffering or stuttering that's gonna be taken out in those other platforms, it's going to stay in zoom.

Right, let me, let me go into like one of us, let me go in a little bit on like what David was saying about the zoom as in terms of, ease of use, ease of use.

Yes, he's correct.

It is much easier for people to just click on a link on zoom.

But if you really want to go all in, you can make your life easier and the life of your guest a lot easier by providing a one sheet of what I call for for guest appearances.

So let's say that we're setting up a podcast on riverside here's an example of what your one sheet would look like link to join colon.

You paste the link for them to join.

Here's exactly what you're gonna see on riverside.

You're gonna see this window pop up that says, please select whether or not you're wearing headphones, parentheses.

Please make sure you're wearing headphones, make sure that you're using google chrome only.

That is the best platform or that's the best web browser to use riverside.

Please make sure also you have a very strong internet connection from here.

You're going to be prompted to allow your computer to access your camera and your microphone.

Here's what it'll look like.

You can build out the steps to make it as easy as if someone were just clicking on a zoom link and everyone may not read that.

But as long as you offer that to the guests, you're gonna make their life a lot easier to be able to join.

A lot of these platforms, like David said, not everyone knows how to just jump on a squad cast.

Like all of us would like if I were gonna interview Jag and said, Hey, we're gonna do it over riverside.

He knows exactly what to do but make it easy as possible and you can just copy and paste that into all of your calendar invites for when you're inviting guests to come on the podcast.

That's a good point and then you could put other stuff in there that like if you have pets may be better to leave them in the other room, Things like that.

That small room, no windows, turn your water, turn your phone off.

Cold water will sink you.

That's a great point.

Catherine.

Cold water will, will freeze up the muscles in your jaw.

Don't, don't go cold water.

Uh Jag my notes are failing me here, but you're going to talk about movie trailers in some degree and I'm not sure what that means.

I'm sorry.

You know, I'll defer to matt here because he alluded to it and that is having the movie trailer, the trailer for your podcast.

It will serve as a teaser so that you can have a quick sample if somebody's gonna commit 30 or 45 minutes to you.

But also uh it gives me a taste of what's to come.

And also if you cry if you create the trailer first, you can go ahead and get your podcast on Apple and Spotify and all that before you do a full episode or if you're creating your trailer after you've recorded a couple episodes, you can make it a real trailer trailer and put clips of episodes in their little 10 15 2nd clips to really give potential listeners a taste of what the show's about.

You want to pick that up from there because you pretty much just nailed it all.

Um, I would say that one of the things you can do if you make a trailer is at the same time, make a promo for the show can be 30 seconds really just a very short version of what the podcast about, where you can find the podcast, put your website in there and and you can use it to, you know, as a promo, swap down the line, you know, there's gonna be some other people that will say, hey can you have a promo for your show?

Maybe we should swap promos, you know one little hack by the way out out there is like lipson has a podcast called the feed with Elsie, escobar and rob Walsh they are looking for show promos that is free promotion for your show, take advantage of things like that.

What do you recommend in terms of a trailer in terms of a call to action.

Is there something you need to say during that trailer by the way?

All this advice is great and that's why I recommend doing an episode or two um in the can before you create the trailer because you can lift audio from those first two episodes, that might be gold.

Everybody's funny when you take their funniest, you know 23 seconds of in an hour.

Right.

Um but what about the call to action?

Does anyone want to take that one?

Yeah, I usually just suggest to send people to Apple Spotify.

No, no, no, not that, you know because it could be youtube and some people find their podcast in funny places and so um tom Webster kind of beat that out of me and people can stop saying that.

But I think that at the very end whether it's Apple Spotify, I think the last thing has to be your website and we should probably talk at some point.

You need a website, don't get too crazy with the calls to actions.

People go and follow me on twitter and go make sure you sign up for my email newsletter and make sure you do that.

Don't you give them analysis?

Paralysis.

They're going to go.

I have so many things I have to do that.

I'm gonna end up doing none of them.

So those are the radio Doggy commands where you give them so many things to do.

They don't even listen anymore.

I've actually started to tell clients we have one called action.

That's the most effective thing.

One you get one for the whole podcast episode.

It doesn't have to be, I was gonna say forced forced forced to choose.

Catherine.

What?

But if someone says no, I haven't have dinner, I have facebook, I have, I have a web page.

What what should I call the action be?

Well let's go right back to what johnny study.

What is the goal of the show?

So like I have clients that their, their list is their biggest asset.

So we have a link right in the show notes to get on their email list.

We have like a lead magnet, which is like a free freebie for that.

People get for going on the, on the email list.

That's a perfect call to action that I find is very effective for a lot of our, my clients.

Yeah, it's, what is the, what is the goal?

And I would say for most businesses list building is really good going to the website and then of course, you know, you can always do the, make sure that you are following or subscribed to this, this podcast.

Those are all really great things.

I say website and everything's on the website.

What's, what are your thoughts met on creating a separate website or using a service like pod page or something like that.

Yes.

Listen, I only say that because I'm just happy, somebody actually does a website because a lot of people will just, you know, refer to the host website or you know where your podcast host is, like the Angkor site or the lips in sight and say, oh, there's no, there's my website PO'd page I like, um, there is going to be some people who know google and sc oh well enough to know that PO'd page, which populates the show from the rss feed probably doesn't get the proper hits um, in the search traffic that it does, there's a little bit of argument about that.

I know that people who make pod page would argue against it and I know some other people would say no but I'm all for an organic website that you create yourself, you should have blog posts for each episode.

So each episode gets its own page, you should have a player up there as well as you know, your full description to let google know.

Hey, we had Taylor swift, yeah, we had taylor swift on our podcast.

Did you really, you know, I know you mentioned transcript and yes, listen, the transcript is nice but when, when you're starting out and wanting to launch a podcast, you know, the website doesn't have to be the first thing.

It doesn't have to be in the first batch of things we need to do.

The transcript doesn't have to be in the first bunch of things we need to do or else we'll really get bogged down because I think we're trying to focus on a launch and we're focusing on a launch.

There's sort of a part A and part B and sometimes they okay we'll worry about the website.

Next.

Right.

Some people we can do it beforehand but you know, we'll worry about the transcription a little bit later.

Can I plug something really quick?

Go for it?

There is a web, there's a podcast hosting site called co host and within co host they offer you a custom podcast website that will be made for you and it's very similar to pO'd page.

You can add your twitter account to it, you can add your youtube page to it, but it will populate all of your episodes as they go live.

And we're talking about launching the podcast, like matt says you may not be like, alright, well, okay, so you're telling me I got to launch a podcast and I got to go learn how to do wordpress and embed my player and transcript all that stuff.

You can start with something very simple like that.

And essentially what matt is saying is like you just want to sense you want to send somebody somewhere somewhere as long as they can find your pod.

And that's why we haven't mentioned the extremely basic thing which is choosing a platform.

It's the first thing you need to do and that is on a site like lipson Buzz sprout or Simple Cast Jack, did you have something you want to mention about?

No, I was just gonna say I use simple cast from my client's full disclosure and referral partner of theirs.

I know everybody in this call I think uses different hosting platforms which everybody want to go around the horn and maybe and and see which ones they use.

But personally I've been with simple cast for a while and I like them.

I I use a service called a Dory.

They're small, lean, nimble and innovative.

That's I guess that's all I have to say about a Dory.

I'm on lipson transistor and co host I'm on art 19 and megaphone, both of them have dynamic audio insertion, which is why I use them.

Nobody here mentioned buzz Sprout, which is incredibly popular.

Captivate is another one.

That's, that's very good and I think, I think we would all agree that a lot of them are very good.

Um the outlier would be anchor, which is free.

Um, and I wanna listen, nobody, nobody dislikes anchor more than me.

But let me say one thing about it that if you do want to start your podcast there, that's fine.

At some point.

You, because you can move it, if you don't like your podcast host, you can move it to another podcast host without having to start over.

Yeah, exactly.

And you can keep, you can keep your followers so you can just redirect the podcast if you don't like your podcast host after your first start.

No problem.

It's not a failure to launch and you don't have to start over.

You can just move it to another host, right, which is, can be a little tricky, but it when it works well, it works one of us.

Yeah, exactly.

Um I've had ones where I've had to move and then move it back to the previous platform, try doing that and then trying to figure out where the hell the podcast is.

Um, so we are up against the clock here, but I suppose uh maybe just one random question, just uh 90 seconds on this.

You know, time limit who has to be anywhere allegedly have a life.

But um should you be on Youtube?

Because I think two years ago if we had had this we would have said don't bother and now I think our answers might be very different quickly.

Do we wanna talk about that?

Anyone want to talk about Youtube?

The answer should be a resounding yes.

It doesn't matter.

You done now.

We're not saying that you need to go buy a multi camera setup and learn how to do video production.

We're not saying just because you're starting a podcast, you now have to become a camera star.

Uh You can do audio only for Youtube.

The simple fact that a lot of people may want to ignore right now is that Youtube is huge for podcast consumption there and it doesn't screw the idea that whether it's a podcast or not.

The show is being consumed on Youtube at a growing clip and it's gonna keep growing as time goes on.

So by saying, oh well it's not a podcast that doesn't need to be on Youtube.

You're just shooting yourself in the foot whether it's for the Discovery the potential audience or simply the S.

C.

O.

You show your show slash podcast needs to be on Youtube.

Video is a whole different animal.

People enjoy watching the video of podcasts, I don't know what it is.

People like to see people talking into microphones but video podcast consumption is very much a popular thing.

So it's something to consider.

I always recommend to clients.

Let's nail down the audio side first.

And then if you're really, really committed to doing this, let's move into video.

Yeah.

What we're talking about is you can just have a static image of the logo of your pod and have it on youtube and that is far better than not being on youtube at all.

In fact, shout out to the platform that I use a dory has a function where you could do that with a single click, you click and it and it uploads to your whatever youtube channel you're signed into.

I imagine a lot of these other platforms will start to, I have, I use headliner to create small social clips from the audio that have the transcripts of the words light up as the people are talking.

And I have and I have a couple of my clients set up an auto post to Youtube when I hit publish or a schedule post to go up my podcast always published at six a.m.

Weekdays and then by seven or eight it's on their Youtube channel just automatically with no muss, no fuss.

And remember google owns youtube.

How many times have you googled how to do something and you get 30 youtube videos and your search results.

That's why it's so big.

People, you want people to find stuff based on what they're Googling, they want you to come up.

Youtube is the best way.

Plus I think right now we're at a sea change moment.

I put out a tweet and we talked about it with the, with my super friends here about, I went to a meeting with a bunch of marketers who knew they know podcasting, they know what's happening in media and all of the young professionals said, I listened to my podcast on Youtube and I just kind of filed in my mind and I thought I bet I'm gonna reflecting back on this moment a lot in the future that as well.

And I keep wanting to ask why, but you know, it's not for me to say people are consuming it on Youtube, but I'll tell you why, I'll tell you why because it is much harder to get somebody onto a new app that they're not used to being on everybody and their mother is used to being on Youtube at this point, whether it's the web or the app, it's a lot easier to fish where the fish are and, and, and for folks who haven't migrated over to apple or Spotify or one of the others be where they are, meet them where they are.

Okay.

So I have a question for Catherine.

So for those people that you spoke to the young professionals who say they consume their podcasts on Youtube do they have like the youtube premium where you pay the money and then you can shut down the video and then listen, that is through the power of my investigation.

That's what I did because I don't see too many people going, excuse me, I'm just, I'm just listening to a podcast right here.

It's me.

It's more, it makes sense that they find the podcast through Youtube.

And then if, if they're, you know, sitting on the couch with their ipad, sure, maybe they continue to listen to the podcast on Youtube.

But I don't know, there are of millions of people, millions of people who listen in their car or at the gym.

And I just think it's not that easy listen on Youtube.

But again, I'm pro Youtube get, get on there one way or the other and I'll say this, I think what has happened is we went through the, we went through the cord cutting phase so people dropped cable and then now we have streaming services and then people realized, wait a minute, I'm, I'm paying for 10 different streaming sort of services.

This is far more than anything I was ever doing with cable.

And so now I believe also just with economics is, you know, the climate is people are coming cutting back.

So they're, they're trying to drop the extraneous services.

So if they get a youtube premium because they can get shows there, they can get different things there.

They are making a choice.

They're making their pick and Youtube just has more than some of these other services.

Well, and think about how much more the visual aspect of, of Kant Consumption is being added into these podcasts.

Like David.

Imagine if your show was on YouTube and instead of playing the 10 or 15 seconds of music for that show, you're pulling up a video alongside your heads of the live concert from 1972 of whatever band was popular at that time.

I wasn't even even remotely close to being alive, but you'll see, you'll see, you'll see like, uh, you'll see people pulling up memes on their podcast.

They have video drops to have inside jokes on their podcast.

They're pulling up a dozen different things that add the visual components of the podcast, that sort of isn't as enjoyable to be consumed when it's audio only.

And so that is another kind of wrinkle in this whole Youtube era that things are moving into.

And I mean, even some shows that I watch on Youtube, they, they treat the audio only as like, uh, well, hey, here's a little land Yap for you.

Just a little for those who, you know, they, they view the Youtube thing as the main and it's like, oh, I guess we'll offer this extra piece for you if you're just listening audio only.

Plus I think that we remember the way you consume youtube is not necessarily how everybody else is consuming youtube is that there's plenty people who have youtube just running in the background the same way we might have an audio podcast running in the background.

Um, yeah, it's not, it maybe isn't the focus plus like johnny was saying, I, I think we might be under because we come from podcasting one.

Oh, is that we might be thinking people enjoy even just seeing the face or just the sum of the podcasts that are very popular with their podcast on YouTube.

It's not some huge production.

It really is just it's talking heads and they're fine with it.

It's back because its people are being engaged by what they're, what they're talking about.

That's right.

And for those that don't speak creole or live in New Orleans, la means a little something a little extra.

Yeah, so the audio is just a little extra.

It's just, it's not the main, it's not the main dish.

It's the, it's a great, it's a great word.

I used to use it all the time, but not everybody knows what it means.

Uh, I guess we should wrap up, do we want to go around the horn and remind people where to find us.

Uh, we touch on the touch on two things quickly that we didn't hit on that are key to the podcast launch, cover art, music.

Uh, you need to license music.

You can't pull your favorite song from Spotify to use as your podcast music.

So I would, everyone here uses different stuff.

I would recommend premium beat dot com for your uh for your music, you can buy a song for like 50 bucks and it's yours to use for for your podcast.

And then cover art, fiber up work, freelancing websites that and search for podcast.

Cover art creation.

That's where I have one guy that I send all of my clients to and he does a great job or you can use things like canvas a if you're if you're versed an illustrator or Photoshop, you can use those as well.

But those are things that you have to consider as well that we didn't touch on for music.

I would recommend mega tracks dot com.

I have a relationship with them For artwork.

A reminder.

There are some specs you'll have to follow 3000 by 3000.

All the way down to 1400 by 1400.

Um do not put the Apple logo in the artwork or you will not be approved by Apple because you're not approved to use that.

And good point.

And don't put a microphone in your Yeah, can we, can we stop that please?

No microphone, no microphones in artwork.

How will they know it's a podcast.

Very good, very good.

Uh Do we say goodbye in any fashion here or should should we remind people where to find us?

I'm dave in boston pod 617 dot com, matt Kendell sound off dot network follow me on twitter at johnny podcasts.

Hi, I'm Katherine O'brien and I'm branch out programs is my company and you can follow me on twitter to hello Catherine.

Oh john gauge ag in Detroit podcasts, Jag in Detroit dot com or any social media, jag in Detroit.

And just remember we know your your podcast is going to be super and we want you to be our friends.

So join us next time with the podcast.

Super friends.

We now return to our lair in the Hall of Justice and we'll see you next time.

Thanks for listening to the podcast.

Super friends for a transcript of the show or to connect with the super friends.

Go to the show notes of this episode or go to sound off dot network produced and distributed by the sound off media company.