BJ Shea: Champion For the Common Man

One of north America's great radio stations is K.I.S.W.In Seattle was popular back in the eighties, was at the center of grunge in the nineties.

And while It wobbled a little bit like most rock stations in the 2000s, it found itself on solid footing again with the BJ Shea and Migs morning show.

The story of how B.J.Got to do mornings has a lot to do with the talented people he's worked with along the way.All I can say is I had no idea and wow to his listeners.BJ is champion to the common man and to those coming up in radio.

He's always there to share and inspire the next generation of broadcasters at Dave, Anthony's morning show, boot camp or wherever radio conference talent sessions take place.

BJ Shea joins me from his home in Seattle.

Where does your radio story begin?

It begins, I would say in my basement at between 12 and 15 years old trying to win a baseball tickets in the Boston area and I would call a local radio station and torment them, which, you know, now being in the business.

You know, sometimes it's not easy to get callers, which is why I, as this 13 year old could get through much to their disappointment that they wish there was somebody more adult, but I would always try to make my voice sound a little older and I would do impersonations of the different sports broadcasters in order to win red sox tickets.

And I would say that's where the bugs started because I got to hear myself at least for the last seven seconds on the delay.

And I'm like, okay, this is really cool.

And when I made a couple of the guys laugh once, I thought, okay, this could be a thing.

So it started there as far as my love for this, This industry.

And that was back in the mid 70s.

What was the radio station?

It was Whdh in boston and it had a great show called the Sports huddle, which I really, really see so many morning shows and some sports morning shows really following that model.

It's what I followed anywhere where they actually brought fun into sports rather than anger and stats.

They were about just having fun, poking fun.

They've had a lot of audio drops that they would play in inappropriate places of different managers and I just thought it was fantastic.

As opposed to, you know what you hear today on a lot of sports radio though, guys like toucher and Rich, they very much sound like what I remember growing up listening to with the sports huddle.

Think back to 1975, red sox right in the middle of it every year.

Some very famous world series.

Episode 78.

There was a misfortune with, I won't say his name.

Yeah, don't say that blank and bucky Dent.

Was that an evening show because I gather a lot of the sports was on the air in the evening at that time and you being 13 would have done that at night.

Yeah, it was a sunday night show.

They had a really good following which eventually they were given more time but this was I think early in their career where they just said let's just give this lawyer and a couple of his buddies a show, Eddie Andelman was the guy that was the figurehead of all this and it just became huge with young kids like myself, a lot of people my age were growing up and really digging what they were doing and eventually they got into a weekday programming and Eddie ended up having a really good career in the boston area.

But he was I think he was a lawyer or he wasn't a radio guy and he just loved sports and loved to joke around and he had a shot doing like this sunday night show and that's where I would tune in and before I would get sent to bed to get ready for school the next day I would go down in a freezing basement because my dad would not pave to heat the basement which is why I could get down there and do a lot of stuff because no one else would go down there and I just get on the phone and just hold on and hold on and try to get through and I spent hours pretty much I was with them, their whole show, just trying to get through and listening and laughing and at the time didn't realize that I had the bug, but it followed me through high school and I would buy two cassette recorders from Radio Shack and I would get a buddy of mine and we would just do these bits based on when we record tv themes and I recorded sound effects.

It was the best I could do trying to emulate what I heard those guys do without all the partnerships.

I just had to cassette recorders and before I knew it, I realized, wow, I guess I liked this radio thing and that's what I ended up doing when I couldn't when my art wasn't good and nobody told me and I would go to these colleges with my portfolio and they all looked at me like, you really want to be an artist, this is horrible work.

I'm like, I don't know, nobody told me.

They just said, here's your portfolio, you should go shop this around I guess.

Maybe, I don't know if I was being trolled or if the art teachers were being nice.

And so I pivoted to radio eventually at a state college in Salem mass and started at that radio station here in 78.

I'm not completely unfamiliar with the boston area and radio and New England for that matter because I grew up in Montreal and very well versed with not only the sports affiliations between the Canadians and the haves, but also the boston red Sox and you know, we got a lot of our television from New England and I would summer down in Maine.

So I know the area, So you go to college, you go to Salem, what's the program you take and how did you sort of exacerbate that radio bug further?

Well, matt, that's the thing.

Salem had a radio station and no broadcasting majors or minors.

They had no courses.

I couldn't take anything.

It was one of the most frustrating things.

I thought, wow, this is exciting, There's a radio station here, this is going to be fantastic.

And they had nothing, they had no broadcast program whatsoever.

It was really frustrating.

And so eventually I ended up dropping out after a year.

I had to take all these courses that had nothing to do with radio broadcasting at all?

And I was, I flunked out, I couldn't do anything.

It was really dumb.

I was just that they go, why do they have a radio station, if they're not teaching anything about radio?

And they may still have it today.

W M w m I don't know if that's what it was, but I was exposed to a lot of people who said, don't do radio, a couple of dudes that had part time jobs and they were still doing this college radio thing, which I thought was a little unfair.

It's like, well you're kind of a professional and I'm a student, why are you?

You know?

And there was a lot of politics to even the college radio station.

So I got discouraged.

And I was working in a supermarket and I thought, you know what, maybe I can make this supermarket in my career because I really loved some aspects of that job.

So I stopped radio for three years after I dropped out of college.

But luckily I worked in the right supermarket because there was this other guy who was my boss at the supermarket who also wanted to be a radio star and he ended up getting a job in boston at W.B.O.S, which was a country station for about a half a minute.

And I went on to be his producer since he knew I had the bug as well.

And we worked together at the supermarket and that was where I got my first shot at real radio really was working for him, but that it didn't last long, but it was still fun.

And I got my foot in the door and kept moving since then, actually.

So where did you progress to?

After bros?

And you also mentioned you were just doing some productions.

So when did you actually get behind the microphone to do a show?

You know, I did a show for the college station.

And then I joined this cable station for a little bit.

It was only on a, if you remember those days when you had cable television, there was the community message board and then this station provided the soundtrack to the community message board.

It was the only place it was heard.

I remember I worked at the midnight so three shift and I gave away $1000 just to see if anybody was listening.

And the only one was listening was the owner of the station who was not happy with me.

But I said there's nobody listening.

I said dude don't worry about it.

I can do what I want, literally there's nobody listening because it's midnight who's watching the community message board on Woburn television.

The only place you can get this station.

But that's where I did start doing some on mike stuff on air stuff behind the microphone which then eventually doing that and toiling with that.

And I got a couple of part time jobs at different stations.

There was one in Salem W.NS..H.

And then I did, I got something at this country station at W.D.L.W.

And that's actually where I was producing for Dean before he went to B.O.S.

So those were some of the limited situations that I got to have to be on mike though.

Eventually I was just producing for Dean when I was in boston that didn't last long.

But that's about where it all started.

I was fortunate enough to work.

The one of the people I work with in boston, the newsperson chris share when we all got blown out of BO.S.

She went and landed in Rochester and she got a job working for the legendary brother weeds.

So I had worked up in new Hampshire, I worked all over the place in Broxton.

I was just trying to stay afoot.

I was working at an arcade, doing what my kid to stay in the business, but it wasn't looking too good.

And then my first child was on the way and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is, this is bad.

I don't even have a job and now I have a kid coming and then chris calls me up and says, hey, we have an opening for a sports guy in Rochester, she said, so all you gotta do is no sports and you get to be on the show and I'm like, oh, I know everything about sports and matt.

The only thing I knew about was baseball, I knew nothing else.

I didn't know football, hockey, basketball, golf.

I knew nothing, but I desperately wanted to be in radio.

So I lied and said, I knew sports.

I had a great interview because it wasn't just about sports was also being a sidekick.

But I remember we's early on as he's talking to me and he's, he's, he knew a lot about sports as we're doing the show and he's like, dude, you don't know anything about sports, how do you tell people you do sports?

But the kind of radio he loved to do, he found that to be a plus that the idiot that he hired, who's setting new sports knew nothing about sports.

All I did was get a subscription to Sports Illustrated and hope that would fill the gap because I would read that every month and hope that would somehow give me knowledge.

But I was in Rochester, we did like the way we sounded on the show and he realized that sports isn't that big of a deal, we're having fun.

So we did that for four years in the late 80s to early 90s.

Well how much is there to really know in Rochester?

It's Bills mafia territory.

You talk about the Bills, jim kelly thurman thomas, all the mistakes you think marv levy is making and that was a glorious time because the four years I was there were the four years that the Bills went to the Super Bowl was glorious and it was heartbreaking.

But we had Thurman Thomas is a regular guest on the show.

Darryl Talley too big, Buffalo Bill starts at the time and it was fantastic.

One of the best moments ever is that we've had a great relationship with Sam Kinison who was one of the biggest comedy stars you could ever imagine filling stadiums, you know.

Andrew dice, clay level, Dane cook level and now jo koy level and sam would come to Rochester and because we's was the only one that put him on his show before anybody knew who Sam was.

Sam would come to western new york.

He would do phone ins for Syracuse phone ins for buffalo, but he would stay all week in Rochester and he'd go, okay, well we're doing the morning show here.

But then I'm gonna go do my gig in Buffalo.

He would drive the buffalo, do his concert, come back to Rochester the next day.

It was insane and we had a whole week with Sam where it was just weeds and Sam doing radio and he brought the outlaws of comedy and it was amazing, amazing radio for Rochester new york.

The fact that Sam would do an entire week there live with us for all four hours.

And so I, I really was fortunate that those four years were the time I got to spend, you know, doing radio with weaves and learning from the best and then having some amazing things happen in those four years.

I think back to my experience in that area.

I went to two NFC championship games for the Buffalo bills and I think back to the very first one and just listening to the radio and the show you were on, I didn't even put two and two together to remember that you were on the brother, we show and the Star Power that would go through there including sam Kinison.

But I think one of the radio stations at the tailgate party brought in john bobbitt and his sliced penis.

And there was a celebrity factor that these radio stations had, you had to be friends with celebrities to bring them into buffalo or Rochester for the competitive edge.

Yeah, it was crazy and wings was in the concert promotion business before radio.

So he had a great relationship with a lot of the folks that would bring so many things to town and he was a great different host.

A lot of the celebrities of people came through love the fact that like wow this is not radio the way we experience radio outside of Howard Stern which everybody had heard about every end of the radio guy was just a radio guy and yet coming to Rochester and you know this guy telling Vietnam stories and Woodstock stories and in hippie stories and with a voice that wasn't traditional but man, I mean and he was super likable and it was such a magical time.

I couldn't believe how lucky I was like I don't deserve to be here, I don't have the experience to be working on a show like this but I am so happy that I am What came next in the 90s.

Then I went to san Francisco.

I got my big break because of working with wees chris miller who was the program director of the legendary K.R.Q.R.

In SAn Francisco wanted to partner me up with one of his dudes that was working there, A guy by the name of Lobster who was legendary in SAn Francisco for a while we met, we went out there that did not work out, but chris and I really hit it off and eventually he hired me to do an all talk show way ahead of its time, the way it was put together, management didn't really know what we were doing and the general manager didn't quite tell everybody what was going on.

It was the craziest nine months of my life and I went out there and I'll tell you that you know, in our business if you can actually be debt free.

I went out there and I got such a nice salary increase that we were able to pay off all our bills, we were debt free with two little kids until of course three months later they fired everybody and blew up the format because apparently the general manager thought he was going to get Howard Stern to be on the station and that didn't happen because the competitor is Howard's company owned stations in SAn Francisco and so they're like we're not going to do that, we'd rather put them on a station that we own in san Francisco and so it all went to hell in a handbasket, but it was a fun time from there, I went to Jacksonville, luckily chris helped me get a job out there because he felt badly that you know he brought me there and it was just a mess.

Jacksonville was fun for a couple of years and then bob Rivers who I got to meet at a convention bob who has become such an amazing friend, he was such an advocate for me, he met me at a convention and because I wasn't a drinker and he was in recovery and we both like star trek, I ended up really making a friend who would have so much impact on my career, I was a bit of a mess, I was a horrible employee, horrible attitude, whatever talent I had, I you know, I sure sell ruined whatever that was by just being a very bad coworker and bob took me under his wing and said you know you're really good, but you know nothing about the politics of being an employee.

The politics of doing this business.

He said we could learn from each other if you'd be if you know, let's let's hang out and he helped me get a job in phoenix working for nationwide and that was his company when he was in Seattle and I worked there for a couple of years, then I went back to Rochester because we was having some health issues and the management thought maybe he wasn't going to make it and they hired me and I didn't realize at the time they hired me to do afternoons and paid me a good amount of money to do afternoons in Rochester and do a talk show.

And I was like, are you guys sure this seems like you're paying too much money for a shift, that doesn't mean.

And and then eventually I found out, oh, they were afraid that we wasn't gonna make it and they wanted to have a backup and then, well, we came through with flying colors and all of a sudden they're like, well we don't need you anymore, but we's was not happy about that and was going to hire me back to do the morning show with him.

He was like, come on back to the morning show, we'll have a blast.

I'm like, well I don't, I don't have any other offers, let's do this.

And at the same time when that happened, bob rivers gave me a call and said, there is a talk show in Seattle that I think you'd be amazing for you would be the guy and I'm like, oh wow.

And so I had this decision, do I stay in Rochester where my wife loved where we lived, lived in a beautiful neighborhood, The school was great.

Everybody was having a great time or do I go to Seattle and the money was about the same, but I had never done a talk show before.

And so I thought, wow, this is an amazing opportunity if I can learn this skill.

So I took the Seattle job And that was 22 years ago and it was bumpy for a bit, but it turned out to be really the best decision I ever made because Seattle is a great town and I really resonate well with this town more so than any place I've ever been.

I think that really strikes me the most is that you've spent a lot of time talking, you haven't been playing records, you haven't been doing a lot of 10 in a row, You've been a part of great teams and great associations along the way and there's more to come because I have done some prep on this stuff, but to have that connection with bob rivers, well tell us what is bob doing these days.

So bob is retired and mom is always into something first, he was a beekeeper, He, he reminds me a little bit of Maynard from tool where he just loves to get into stuff.

That's really cool.

That would be winemaking, whatever you know, they're really fascinating guys and, and bob of course produced music for twisted tunes and he had this elaborate studio setup where he wanted the exact equipment that he, all the parody songs he made would sound just like the songs that were real and he would get all the same equipment and he's just, he loves it, he's a scientist bob is and so now he's currently into making maple syrup in Vermont and he's originally from New England to so he's back to his home, his home area in his retirement and that's what he's doing, he's making maple syrup and of course he's getting to be this mad scientist while he's doing that and he has this whole organization and people that work for him and he loves being the person, I think that likes to orchestrate, he is such a great orchestrator, he knows how to bring great talented people together and he recognized his talent and he loves to nurture that talent and now he's doing it with the people and then then the maple syrup business, which of course of course he is of course bob's doing that, you know, bob touched so many people across radio with those twisted tunes, We ran those at the barren Edmonton, people thought we made them, we had to explain.

It was bob rivers and like who's bob rivers?

Just like he's in Seattle, don't worry about it.

Just like you're gonna love this song and many of the other air talent that I worked with admired him and one of the air checks so badly they wanted to find a way to listen to the song and for those of you listening.

No, we did not have the internet around this period, completely, so physical cassettes that would be exchanged through the mail of his show and how brilliant it was.

It's incredible.

Yeah, he was he's an amazing talent and I was so fortunate to know him and not only that, but just the way he be, you know matt, he he brought me to Seattle and I will never forget this.

I couldn't get a job at the time.

I was we's was really kind of showing me pity giving me this morning job.

I he probably shouldn't have hired, it shouldn't have been me anyway, you should have probably gone out and got somebody else.

But he felt really badly so I couldn't get a job in this business.

And bob said I'm bringing you to Seattle, I'm gonna find a way to get it done.

He had me send a tape to the program director, she gave it to her assistant, the assistant threw it in the trash because he thought I wasn't good.

So I told bobby said it's not gonna happen, bob, they haven't called me back, they probably don't think I'm good bob went in and demanded they give me an audition, which you know, I'm like holy cow, like I mean okay, the clout that he had to be able to go, it wasn't even his station, you know, he was he was working for the rock station, he went into the other station and said you know, you give this guy an audition, you're crazy if you don't.

So they gave me an audition and it worked out well and he said I'm bringing you to Seattle, even though I know you will beat me someday.

And again, he's got the big morning show, they're hiring me for this midday show, I can't even keep a job.

And so I'm like bob, you're crazy if you think I'm gonna beat you at anything.

Well son of a gun matt, you know, he just knew because eventually he left our company, he went to another company, I eventually got to do mornings on the station that he was on and I did eventually beat him in the ratings and I remember he called me on the phone, he could you remind me why I brought you to Seattle so you could kick my ask.

But what really struck me was he knew this was going to happen and it didn't bother him one bit, it was like he knew that he wasn't gonna be number one forever.

He knew someone would come along and in his mind, why not, my friend, why not let my friend do it and I have never met anybody like that who had that kind of vision and was at peace with the cycle of life as you know matt, you're you know, you're up, you're down in this business and you know, you're lucky if you ever get to be number one and you're never gonna hold onto it forever.

And boy, he taught me a lot with that, I'll never forget that he had more confidence in me and more vision for my future than I ever had, which is why I will always love that guy.

He's just been great to me his entire life for my entire life.

What was that talk radio experience like in Seattle when you got there, was that on the buzz?

Yes, it was Tom Leykis was on the station and really the only thing that was working on the station though, I will say Kennedy was on the station and it wasn't, it wasn't the right fit for almost everybody there because Kennedy is a great talent, but she's on opposite tom like, you know, and like tom like this is following her show and you're just like, well this is this is just a ridiculous fit, but they thought all this would work.

It didn't really work except like this work.

And then eventually they said, BJ, we want you to be more like, like us, at least as far as speak to the audience, you know, get the same kind of audience and that's what I did and tom man, Oh man, what?

He was another great mentor, that guy taught me so much about the business, also our program after Kris Olinger, who she didn't know FM talk, she didn't know guy talk radio, but she was great at am talk radio so she gave me a lot of talk radio skills and tom really taught me about performance and was so good to me, such a great mentor, I mean that that guy is brilliant, I think he's completely underrated in our industry for how brilliant he is and what a great mind he has and what he, what he's done in his career, you know, it's just sad because I think a lot of business people and radio do not understand great talent and why they're great talent, it reminded me and I don't know how true this was, but I watched that Nicole Kidman, you know the Ricardos being ricardo or something like that, that was on prime I think and boy, the way lucy was treated by all the management and then you realize what a genius she was, how she operated, how she had visions of she like the sitcoms are playing in her brain and her mind and I'm like, wow, I I knew nothing about her brilliance and of course it's always lost on management and I think it's the same with tom I feel like his brilliance, it was just lost on a lot of people, he would come to Seattle, try to help us out, try to have meetings, try to tell people how to sell them and it was just like, you know, they, nobody cared, you know, at the time I'm so happy, my company has got so much better people, we have such a great staff now, but in the early days we did not have the best people in management and I applaud intercom slash now odyssey because they fixed that they recognize that.

And they were like, yeah, we've got to make this better.

And and they had but boy, back then we didn't have the brightest bulbs running the ship at the time.

I had tom like us on this show.

And it is, it's not like it's the most downloaded show we've had.

It is by seven times over the # two show.

It is crazy how he has sought after that.

People still want a piece of what he has to offer and it is behind a paywall.

And if you love tom jump over the wall and help yourself and grab some of it.

But it's a real shame That radio hasn't found a way to keep him involved since I think about 2009 that he hasn't been on terrestrial radio and that's that hasn't done radio any favors.

No.

And I think it's because he, well, you know, I'm projecting I have no idea why I should.

But I look at how tom ran his life.

Tom was a really smart guy and invested so wisely that that's a guy that whatever the money he made and he made great money because it was a great talent.

And he turned that into something even greater there where all of a sudden you don't need our industry to do what you want to do.

He very much I think was in that position where I don't think our business could pay him enough to do what they want, when he could do what he wants and I love what he did because he took care of Gary and Dino for all those years and kept them employed, which, you know, you hear jay Leno talked about that, it was like, look, I wasn't doing the show for me, I was doing it for all the people that, you know, had jobs around me and Tom had a similar mindset, you know, he was fine financially, but he really helped those guys along and I thought, man, you know, and and he's proud of what he's accomplished with, that we know with this streaming show and now the podcast good for him, you know, he's a smart guy and he's also a great talent.

I listened to that show to matt great show.

I I love that interview.

I thought that was such a well done interview and I really enjoyed it.

He's one of the stars of our business, the stars of this industry, and I'm happy that you gave him the time to show why he is, he mentioned during the show, the reason why he's not radio is the number of zeros on the check.

The other thing that really strikes me about Tom is just how forward thinking he is.

He's about three steps ahead of where most of us in radio have been for the last decade anyway, and he's demonstrating that with what he's doing now.

A real fun story about tom again, just because of how aware he is is that I wanted to do him a favor for everything he has done for me.

And I said tom I'm going to come down to L.

A.

I'm going to take you to lunch now.

Tom had this fantastic house in the Hollywood hills and I mean the guy could go anywhere, eat anywhere matt.

I saved my money and you know, he's got great taste.

I saved $1,000 thinking maybe this will be the cost of a meal between him and I because I was I was ready and tom he knew that I was this guy that probably didn't make a whole lot of money in Seattle just trying to make my way and he took us to a really good restaurant that I treated but it was so within the budget I had sticker shock at the menu because it wasn't as expensive as I expected to pay.

But I really, I just like, you know what I want to show them respect I want to do is but he was cool enough.

He took us to a place that I could afford to buy us lunch.

I just thought that was amazing because you know I mean L.

A.

And every place we could have gone and he was like yeah it was a good place we went to.

It was tasty, it was wonderful.

But I was like, I'm sure if tom was going by himself, he would have gone to someplace else.

It's just little things like that, that he doesn't get credit for.

Always thinking, always being aware and a lot of kindness.

And that's another thing I'll never forget about him because I said, I told my wife I go, honey, I got this money saved, I gotta do this.

It's the right thing to do.

I know it's a lot of money and I was lucky if I paid 2/10 of that for our lunch.

And I think that's really something about the man where he knows who he's with and acts accordingly.

It's those things like that, that just people don't know about him in just a second.

BJ and I talk a lot about Seattle radio, the people who shaped it sound like Dave Richards and steve Young also why radio is a performing art.

And we try to figure out why it's not regarded as such.

And you know, BJ was no stranger to controversy.

He tells us why he was removed from the airwaves in 2000 and how he found his way back on.

There's more, including podcasts and other social media connection points to BJ at sound off podcast dot com.

I'm Andrea ask a wits host of writing class radio, if you need any help with the podcast higher, matt Kendell of sound off media, that's what we did and he has helped us with everything new mic, new headset, recordings, music hosting platforms, levels.

He helps us with ship, we don't even know we need help with and we have produced a world famous podcast.

Thanks to matt Kendell.

Matt Kendell of sound off media hire him before.

Anyone else does the show as always, is brought to you by our friends at promo Sweet.

Not sure if you saw this in the trades recently, but promo suite has unleashed something new.

Promo Sweet Digital, built specifically for radio stations.

Promo Sweet Digital allows you to customize your workflow to manage your digital creative process, manage your station and clients digital assets across all channels, whether it's websites, social media pages, youtube channels, banner ads or anything else that falls under digital.

You can do it with promo Sweet Digital and it's all in one centralized place, streamline your efforts, speed up your processes and eliminate duplications of efforts, promotions, production and now digital.

Yet another example of how promo suite is pivoting with the times to make your life a whole lot easier.

Your station can give this a try now by calling 212509, 1200 asking for Rachel or drew or by going to promo sweet dot com slash sound off.

That's promo sweet dot com slash sound off the sound off podcast with matt Kendell.

What happened in 2000 that you got taken off the air.

I'll tell you what Tom said, this is the best piece of advice that Tom gave me, I said something really bad about religion and at the time It was not something that a lot of folks liked.

The company was in a real tough spot, but I had no ratings.

I was like, number 27 in the market and like, Oh, this guy's an idiot, we don't need this.

And so they sent me packing, luckily thanks to my agent, Paula Anderson, we were able to negotiate and get back and work it out and get me back on the air.

It was, it was an eight month negotiation, but it got done.

I'll never forget.

I walked in Tom was broadcasting live from Seattle and I walked in, he's like, BJ good to see you.

And I said, oh yeah, tom it's good to be back.

He goes, well, I hope you learned something.

And I said, well, I don't know, Tom he goes, oh, it's simple.

Get ratings.

Then say something stupid.

He was absolutely right, I'm on there and, and really I'm trying to be like him.

And I even used one of his catchphrases, but I used it in such a stupid way that the company is like, what is wrong with you and send me packing.

And I thought that was so beautiful of tom because he knew he was aware of what was going on and it just at that line, get ratings.

Then say something stupid was really brilliant because that is life.

The thing is I had no value, you know, now that you know we have better ratings, I think I've said dumber things but because we have better ratings and we're you know more valuable financially than the company, you know, they're more willing to help me stay in place.

That was an amazing learning experience because I thought I was done, I was told by people that I would never get another job, I would be over.

Its it you've blown up your opportunity.

I will tell you it's funny because you know here I am saying angry things about religionists and the only person to reach out to me was Gary bryan who was a christian and he reached out to me, took me to lunch, our daughters went to the same school and I guess his daughter told him and said oh my gosh my my friend's dad just got fired on the radio dad and so his daughter said, is there anything you can do for him?

You know?

And this we're talking a little seven year olds at the time.

So Gary takes me to lunch and it was ironic because nobody would talk to me and he was the only one that did and if anybody really shouldn't talk to me it would be the christian guy.

But Gary was just really awesome and we ended up starting up a good friendship ourselves, you know, eventually I got back on the air, he ended up getting off the air and before he went to K Earth, he was trying to get another job in Seattle and I had him on my show on the talk station for a little bit just to you know, give them a little bit of audition and another great person, another great mentor in my life, there's a guy who I'm like, I want to be able to do radio as long as he is because he's like the fountain of youth, that guy, I mean, I don't know how old he is, I mean he's been doing radio since God was a kid that was pretty much it and then from there once we were able to turn that corner and the company giving me the second chance, you know, we just, we just never looked back and just kept getting better and better and better and and really when Dave Richards came and managed both the Buzz and K.

I S.

W and when he came to town that really just was it?

That was the big one because Dave finally, finally we had somebody who really knew how to program talent, we had a lot of good program directors but they didn't know talent.

Dave was the one that made the difference in my career when he got here.

Gary brian by the way is on the list, he has an awesome twitter picture that keeps them young, I think he's a great twitter follow Yeah.

Gary has done so much for me, my daughter was trying to figure out where to go to school, we weren't sure what to do, she wanted to be an actor or a singer, musical theater.

And so Gary said you know what, tell you what I'm gonna do, I know some people, why don't you go to their house for dinner?

So you know, we go to someplace, I don't even know where it is, someplace in California and really nice family, you know, so we're sitting there, they're talking with their daughter and they go our daughters had some experience in show business a little bit, maybe you're you know, they can go talk and so all of a sudden my wife and I were there all of a sudden we start seeing these Emmys everywhere and then all of a sudden I you know, I don't know who these people are because you know, Gary knows him.

And then eventually it turns out, oh the father was on the Tonight Show and he had a whole comedy act and his wife was a choreographer for all of the winter olympics and that's where she won the Emmys from and then his daughter was the one that was was in Disney's lemonade mouth and she played velma and Scooby doo all of a sudden like holy cow, Gary is hooking up with all these people who are really in the industry, but I'll tell you matt.

I mean they were so down to earth and their house, it was a modest home and they were all living together as a family, even though the daughter had success, she still lived at home with the family because she was relatively young and I was just like holy cow, you know, just this idea that Gary just says, oh yeah, I'll send you over there and then these people are so nice to talk to us as they really taught my daughter the right way to approach show business.

They really were very, very kind and it made a big difference.

And that's another thing from Gary bryan, where it's just like, I can't believe, you know, there are really nice people out there is what I will say, It's just, it's amazing that there are nice people out there in show business and Gary of course, was, you know, the guy that sent us that way.

I've been really fortunate, I've just had so many really good people take time with me in in in this career and in my life?

Well the more we keep talking the more they keep coming.

So I want to keep going here, could you remind me about who was it?

Who came into Program Dave Richards?

So when Dave Richards came in there was going to be some changes and was one of those changes going to be the end of the buzz and it didn't move to country and then you got to move somewhere else.

Yeah, you know this was a big secret, I really never hear much of the gossip that goes on and and so I was completely blindsided.

He eventually came, he came to me and he said yeah, here's what we're gonna do.

And the company had had really they realized that the buzz was a flanker, but they had me on board and they had a show called the Men's room who just and those guys were killing it and all of a sudden they've got this radio station that is really successful, but they really wanted it to be on on the rock station because that was the heritage station, that was the station, they wanted to have all the personality and so Dave got there and said, we this this is insane, we've got to figure something out.

And so that's where they all put their heads together and said what if we just take the best that the buzz has to offer and just throw it all over on K.

I.

S.

W.

And make it one of those old school super successful rock stations, like it used to be with all the talent in the music, but I did not know that they were bringing over anybody but me, so I'll never forget, they had a news conference and they brought in all the tv stations and everything and then I see the men's room like sitting in the crowd of like there was some chairs of people just sitting watching the presentation and I'm like, because I thought they got fired.

I was like, oh, they're ending the buzz Dave didn't say anything to me.

So I thought, okay, the only one surviving was our show.

So before we went on to the press conference, I went into Dave and I started yelling, he goes, what is wrong with you?

I go, you're having those poor bastards sit out there and watch me do a press conference about me getting a big show and those guys just got fired and they got nowhere to go.

And you, is that part of their severance?

Like what kind of a sick bass?

And he's like, oh, he's like, will you shut up there on the station too.

I just didn't tell anybody.

It's called the Secret.

You moron.

And I'm like, all right.

So that's that's how stupid I am.

I didn't know that they were actually part of the station.

But I mean there was a lot of love where there's a lot of love between us.

Them.

I mean, it's truly like they've put together this bunch of idiots, but who really got along together and there's so much love for everyday, part into the day.

Parts, it's it's something that I have never experienced in radio.

There's always some, you know, there's always jealousy and envy.

And yet that isn't the case at all.

We we really all get along so well and that is Dave.

Dave is somehow some way he got all of these egos and me the biggest and somehow got us all to be kumbaya and yeah, so they blew up the buzz created K.

I.

S.

W.

And right after Howard left terrestrial radio as a matter of fact, and we never looked back.

I mean it was it's been a blast ever since then, Over 15 years ago, I think.

Okay, so I like the way you told the story, but you missed the part.

What'd I miss?

I'm glad you're here matt, because the memory is gone.

What'd I miss?

You missed the part where you get to tell everybody that your show was one of the only ones that actually grew in ratings after Howard Stern's departure.

Yeah.

And that's another thing I'm gonna credit Dave with, we sat down with him because Dave is a big strategy, you know, Dave is like, he's really like, he's a great strategist, he's also a great nurture of talent, great creator of fun and creativity.

So he's like, okay, what are we going to do about this?

Howard's leaving?

How are we going to address this?

He's been on for years and you know, everybody was always against Howard and howard was always against anybody and having been in Seattle for as long as I had, I thought, you know, Seattle is very collaborative.

Everybody got along, You know, you talk about all those grunge bands that got together Chris Cornell and Eddie better, all those guys working together.

It was really a lot of love in the room for everybody and I thought well these guys, they love Howard and a lot of the folks would listen to Howard then listen to me on the mid days on the bus.

So I'm sure a lot of the audience was familiar with us and I just said Dave, what do you think of the idea of us just spending like the first day honoring Howard Stern, like just really paying homage to the guy and being cool about it as and it also letting listeners call in and talk about their favorite Howard stuff and just you know, basically saying, look, this sucks for all of us, I get it.

Somebody you love is gone and hopefully, you know, we can make it sting a little less.

So that was our approach and a lot of people thought I was crazy other people in the industry said, you know what, you need to blast Howard and you need to, you know, he's a jerk for leaving and all this.

And I said, I just feel like what about the listener?

They don't think that way they're gonna miss the guy.

You know, maybe they have the money to go spend and go follow him on satellite.

I said, but some people I know don't have the money to do that.

It's a big hole in their lives and they thought I was crazy.

But Dave thought, you know, he's like, this is a good idea.

And so we took that approach and I really believe that was part of the reason why we had rating success is because we honored the guy and then honor the listeners for the pain of them losing their favorite guy.

And I think that that somehow endeared us to the listeners and they said, okay, you seem like good people will stay with you.

Did you ever get a chance to work with steve young, steve Young never worked with him, but he worked with me Matt, I'm at the Great Restaurant called 13 coins.

I'm a miserable human being.

Still, you know, I mean, I'm bad, I'm working, but I'm miserable hating everything bob is just like trying to figure out how to coach me, how to mentor me and bob realized that you know what he needed to call in the big guns because he knew I was a good talent, but I just knew I couldn't get out of my own way and steve Young, I met him, he, I didn't know who I was going to meet him, bob says I got a guy, I want you to meet, we go to go to this great diner in Seattle and steve, of course, this big lovable teddy bear of a guy, puts his arm around me, recites to me every bad thing that I've done in my career.

I don't even know who he is.

I don't know steve young, I don't know his legacy.

I don't know what a great program director is, no nothing about him.

And he just puts his arm around me very fatherly as he recites every horrible thing that I've done, and then he just looks at me, he goes, you're a good guy, you're good talent, we'll figure this out.

I mean, but like, in the most warm kind way, and I will tell you, man, I didn't get to spend much time with steve, you know, before he passed away, but what what an amazing human being.

And he did.

He helped me out a lot.

He helped me hell a lot of the radio trauma that I had, because I had a lot of bitterness towards this business and, you know, he got it, you know, a lot of program directors.

No, especially us old guys like you and me, matt, you know, there's just a lot of traumatic crap that happens as the business does what the business does, and he was really helpful in that steve young, what a great human being, loved that guy.

I loved him.

I'm broadcasting from Winnipeg today.

So, I figure I have to say that because he's responsible for 92 Citi FM here in town and so many great careers in Canada we're talking about, kai's w it's almost like you can't have a conversation about K I S W in this era without really talking about steve.

You're absolutely right.

And he was integral to me being what I am today as well.

So I'm glad you brought his name up.

Thank you because I I would have felt horrible for not giving him the appropriate nod that he deserved.

You're, you're absolutely right matt.

He it was brilliant.

And you know, it's just an amazing, amazing programmer and anybody got to work with him.

Was so fortunate, all these great names that we're talking about today, Even the ones you don't meet that had an effect on your career.

The departure of Howard Stern, for instance, it was brother Wease who was telling you about the politics inside the office.

Were you a political guy?

Were you aware of politics on the outside is politics?

Something that you just began to understand that the listeners needed to wrestle with as well.

What I think people knew about me.

Dave Richards, he is the one that helped me understand me.

He worked with talent that he was just like, you know what, they're not nice people and that's how he put it.

He said, you come off as this crazy person, you come off as this Jackass.

You come off as this rabble rouser.

You come off as this problem child, he said.

But man, you have integrity, you have honor.

You don't lie and you really do care.

He's like, that's the one thing I noticed about you, you care about the listeners, you care about the art of it.

He goes, you're fighting for the right reasons.

And he said, we just need to teach you how to be a leader.

And that's where he told me that politics mattered.

You know, not politics like, you know, republicans, not that guy, but just the politics of business of of a building.

And he said, this is what I want to teach you because he said, I had to learn this and Dave, you know, also a crazy guy, both in the same demographic.

He never, ever thought he would be a manager of anything.

So he was really a good mentor in that respect for me because he taught me, he taught me how to corral all of the creativity, corral the, you know, and fight for the right reasons, but fight the right way and be a good example, be a good leader.

He really, he inspired me.

He said, BJ, we want you to be the one that everybody turns to in the building.

We want your, your the morning show host.

It's not just about doing the morning show.

You're the leader of the station.

You have to look like you have your ship together.

I never saw myself like that.

I never thought I'd be a leader.

I always thought I'd be a pain in the acid, nobody want me to lead anything.

And the idea that he believed in me like that inspired me to try and say, okay, I will listen to you, I will learn how to do this.

Then I went back to bob and said, looks like I have to learn how to do this bob, can you help me as well?

And I was fortunate enough to have people go, finally, we've been telling this for the longest time.

You can do this, just get your act together and don't hate everybody.

And that was a therapeutic pursuit matter.

I had to go and really from a therapeutic standpoint to a lot of self inquiry, self realization, and look at my own self loathing, Get over that, then I wouldn't loathe everything outside of me because it had to start in here first.

But those folks, they were the catalyst for me to have the desire to do it and to learn that game because I I want to be a great talent, but I do want to be a great employee and I was never ever called a great employee ever in my life.

And lately that's been the case, which is a hell of a turnaround.

My, my agent paul, Anderson says, can you believe it, you are the worst employee they have now, they say you're one of the best employees I have.

And he goes, I'm sure it was all me, I'm like, all right, well, you know what?

Actually paul, it was all you because paul has taught me so much about business because he's an excellent business man, that guy is amazing.

So I've had people in my life that really worked with me and really worked hard with me, unfortunate, you know, they really, really think a lot of me and that's why they worked with me and and stuck with me through all the Bs I gave them.

I'm looking through some of my old notes from the conclave.

I don't even write down what the session was and what you were talking about at the time.

But I did make a note because I think we were talking about marketing your morning show or something along those lines And your show started in 2005, But it's really 2007 when the digital thing starts to take off and you're in Seattle which becomes a digital hub for the next number of years where there's just this incredible growth and you've got an audience that is digitally savvy.

So your show is taking off at the time that social media is taking off and I think because you were savvy enough to be active on social media, it contributed a lot to the growth of the show and we had to find a way to do it and that was good for the dudes.

It's an interesting thing because you know, a lot of shows that are female targeted women, you know on average use social media then differently than men.

Men were like twitter, I'm never getting on twitter, what are you talking about?

And so we had to find a way to do it and not alienate them.

It's funny because twitter was basically the geeks platform, Wil wheaton, the actor on star trek, that tradition, he used to be the king of twitter, they used to actually call whatever every 50,000 would they call it a wheaten and now you know the Kardashians have it, but I mean back then it was all wil wheaton and all people like him that were like the king of that platform, Did you ever think there would be a time when one oh 77 the End and K.

I S W could Coexist simultaneously in the same building because I think back to you know right around when your show started 2000 four is like their brutal enemies and now now there's plenty of room for both.

Well and steve, you know my co host on the show of course was part of the Ends morning show with Andy Savage and that they got the best of kelly s W for a while.

So is he talking about, it's almost like a marriage like back in the old days, you know that that marrying the daughter off to the prince of another kingdom with steve and I together, I think it did officially sort of hell that because steve brought his fans to our show and you know, they almost sometimes I think we're like steve really, you're gonna go work for K.

S.

W.

Are you kidding?

Me And our fans were like, really?

You're gonna bring that guy from the end over.

And we're like, no, this, let me tell you, this is gonna be good.

Just come along with us.

And Steve has been a fantastic edition.

He has elevated himself.

He started as the 4th guy on the show and put himself up now to equal co host in the 15 years that he came here and I don't know anybody who's who who's as talented as he is.

Because he's a great he can produce and you can turn that microphone on and be a talent.

I don't know how to produce.

I don't know how he does it and how his mind could go completely into clerical mode, then back into creative mode.

And he does it so quickly every morning.

It's just we were so lucky to get him.

I can't believe we got him.

I can't believe his previous company let him go.

But that's our business.

Our business does not recognize talent.

But we benefited because of that.

Isn't that the case so often in radio, there's so many people out there who are willing to make a huge mistake and other people get to cash in on it.

I love our business.

Oh gosh!

Yeah.

They paid him like they were like, oh gosh wait, if you pay him then we don't have to pay out his salary so much.

So they were paying him to be on our show and beat their radio stations and I'm just like, well there you go.

That's what's wrong with our industry is people like that are in charge because that is the dumbest thing I ever heard of.

Oh look, we're saving money.

It's like, no, you should be keeping this guy, he's really good.

But okay, you can pay him to work for us and have us kick your butt.

Okay, sure.

You know, having a station Like 1077 the end in the building also means you've got some younger and newer jocks who who may be around and I've seen you a couple of times at the conclave and that's really all about talking about the future and the future radio stars.

So today, what would you like to tell anybody who wants to go into radio hoo boy?

That's I feel like you almost have to say go into audio entertainment.

I look at it like just the way music has different delivery systems.

You know, music is music and sure we used to get it on 78th and then you know, you get it on 30 three's and 40 five's and then cassettes then, you know, eight tracks, but it was always music and I feel like audio entertainment is the same way.

I don't know if radio is going to be around in 100 years.

I have no idea.

I mean it's I don't know, but audio entertainment, yes, I believe that will always be around.

I feel like spoken word entertainment, there's going to be some form of that in some way, shape or form.

And what I would say to anybody doing that is the same thing that they told my daughter go in for the art of it really.

You know, if you are an artist which this is a performing art, even though some people in our business don't want to recognize, I get laughed at when I tell everybody we're in the performing arts and sometimes we had a seminar and I get laughed after that.

I'm really looking at the people who are on the panel though, did you just laugh at me for calling this business of performing art?

It is just because you have disdain for whatever it is that you are involved with, it doesn't change the fact that's an art.

So if a young person has an artistic heart, then they follow that and they get people like me and anybody who would be willing to talk to them and just sharing their art.

I love doing that because that's why I got into it.

I got into it for the art, luckily there's been some money, luckily there's been some fame but going in for money and fame, which is tough because that's what a lot of people sort of do these days.

Social media kind of makes it look like it's great just to be famous.

But if you go into it for the art, you're always going to have a satisfying venture.

What in this world of entertainment, that's what I would say.

It's just just pursue the art of it, whatever that is, because art changes the world.

Art makes the world a better place, especially when bad stuff happens.

Art is what really sees us through.

And I have great respect for anybody that wants to be an artist, going to the conclave and meeting all those young people that want to be artists.

I don't know if it's radio or podcasting or what audio, but I love that somebody Is just like me when I was 13, 15 years old and I'm seeing that fresh face going oh yeah, I remember that person, remember that little guy in the basement trying to win tickets and there you are now and I love that man.

So I would say to them, just find people that love this and anybody that's negative and tells you not to be in the business say thank you and then go find somebody like me who will never tell you that because it's so awesome artist.

So awesome.

I would never tell anybody to get out of the art business, They'll figure it out themselves anyway, so you'll be very pleased to know that this podcast is listed in the performing arts category on Apple.

Yes, it should be.

I mean it is and that, you know, like why do we have to fight certain people wearing certain suits about this?

I mean we're the performing art that made this entire country think that we're being invaded by Martians.

I mean that's how great this art is.

So come on, I mean, we have a great legacy and a great history.

You can tell that you're passionate about this when people try to tell me it's not a performing art.

Is your daughter going into radio.

My daughter and son both work with me at the station.

They are both in the business.

He comes on the air from time to time, but he's very much behind the scenes and does a lot of the editing and audio and all that stuff.

My daughter loves live entertainment.

She thought she wanted to be an actor.

I found it very boring, She thought she wanted to be a dancer, but got lots of injuries, but she loves the stage, She loves live performing and having grown up with me.

I knew that she had the gift for gab.

She's a person that can argue any point, even if she's wrong and even she's completely has no knowledge of it, but she just has this ability to make you feel like you're wrong.

And I thought, well it's perfect for this industry.

So I said to her when everything was falling through in her life and she was really going through a tough time realizing she couldn't dance anymore.

I said you want to just intern on the show, see if maybe this business is right for you.

And the first day her eyes lit up, I mean I hadn't seen her like this except when she was dancing and it had been a couple of years and I was really struggling trying to figure out what am I going to do for her?

You know, I could see that her heart was broken, that she just couldn't do it anymore because of all the injuries and to see her that excited and to see her light up again.

I went to the company and said, look, I know she's my kid and I want you to evaluate her and you, if she's not good, you don't want her, you don't want anybody.

You just tell me I'm not gonna be that kind of guy.

And they were all saying no, we actually like her, we should actually probably should get rid of you and let her stay.

We like her that much.

She's very likable kid matt.

As soon as she walked in the door, they had a sales promotion, they have a win a date with my daughter.

She's up for anything.

She is, she is such a great performer, she's like you tell me what you want to do And she, what I love about her having the performing arts in her background, she can play anything, including the insane, crazy person.

But the beauty is is once the show is over, she can then be a good employee.

Our business goes out and finds people who are crazy and opinionated and whatever, but they're not trained and some of them have mental health issues so that when the microphone is off, they cause a lot of trouble.

But if they go for performing artists, you know, I I say you get Meryl Streep on the radio, she will be as good as anybody you put on the radio, except Merrill is a professional.

Whereas some of these other people, they don't know how to shut it off.

And then the halls are causing problems and then they're doing whatever they're doing and that's not professionalism.

So Sarah is really good.

Like that, joe is really good like that.

And that's our show.

We really look for performing artists, professionals, improv performer type people.

So they know like we're doing a show and then when the show is over, we're professionals who behave like good employees, even though we don't sound it, we sound like we're crazy people on the air.

That was something I learned from we's we's was really good like that.

We would have fights and people would be like, oh my God, you guys hate each other.

This I mean when we would walk out the door and everyone in the hallway thought this is it, that they're going to kill each other and then we would just look each other and smile.

He's taught me says if we can make people believe we're crazy, then we've done our job because then when we're out the door, we're not crazy.

And it's like, that's kind of like what we do, you know, make you think, whatever you think, and then when the show is over, you know, professionals who get along and really admire each other for what they've just done, B.

J, I'm so glad you took the time today to do this.

I appreciate it so much, matt.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate you putting me on a list of some amazing people that you've talked to.

That's the sound off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Kendell.

Produced by Evan Surminski

Social media by Courtney Krebsbach.

Another great creation from the Sound Off Media company.

There's always more at Sound Off Podcast