Leslie Scott: Building Teams, Reshaping Radio

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Sound Off Podcast. The show about podcast and broadcast... Starts now.

Matt Cundill  0:13  
Leslie Scott was on way, way, way, way, way back in 2016. It was November of that year, and this podcast had just started. She was the perfect guest. She was Program Director of 107.7 The End in Seattle, which was trying out new things on the air with, you know, things like the two minute promise, which kept radio ad loads down under two minutes. And there was also millenniallab.com which provided all sorts of research and resources about millennials. Later on, Leslie took on a few more stations, a few more clusters, and was elevated to a corporate role in August 2021, overseeing programming of Audacy's exclusive streaming only channels. And then she was restructured. Damn. Later on, millenniallab.com seeks to exist, and radio is down one very talented radio mind. Leslie also serves on the board of directors for mentoring and inspiring women in radio, which we will talk about a little bit during this episode today. And now, Leslie Scott joins me from Seattle, Washington. I think this marks a bit of a record, because this is the longest period of time between guests who've been on the show for a second time. So I think it's been, like seven and a half years since we last spoke. 

Leslie Scott  1:34  
I wondered about that. 

Matt Cundill  1:36  
And I brought you on early on when the podcast started, because you, I felt, had the keys to the millennials. And it was only eight years ago that we were talking about millennials and the importance of growing a millennial audience. So to be exact, it was 2016. So in your experience, from about 2016 let's say, through to the pandemic, how would you grade millennials and their relationship to radio, and how would you look at it today?

Leslie Scott  2:05  
Well, I think we have to look at millennials as no longer being the kids, right? Millennials are now square in the demographic that we're going after. The millennials are in their 40s. They're anywhere from 30 to 40 like they are, right, where radio wants them to be now. So I think it's a different conversation. You know, when we talked eight years ago, the millennials were still sort of this rising generation, and, oh, here are all these things that they're getting into and they're interested in. Well, the millennials have arrived. And so what is radio doing, first of all to get them and to keep them interested, because they're very much here, and it's a part of their routine. And then, and I'm sure we'll get to this, but also we have to look at who's coming up now and who's coming up next.

Matt Cundill  2:53  
I think one of the reasons that I did reach out to you first time to be on the show was about the two minute promise, which was something that The End did from where you sat and how you brought that on the station. How much did that roll out across other radio stations across America?

Leslie Scott  3:11  
So Audacy did get behind the two minute promise in a couple of locations, pre pandemic, and then it was a part of the alternative format for a while during the pandemic. I can't speak to where that is now, I will say that The End is still very much in the forefront of the two minute promise, and still having success with that.

Matt Cundill  3:39  
Did you find that it worked better in some markets than other markets?

Leslie Scott  3:43  
Yes, I believe so, and I have theories around that. I think that the two minute promise, the way we rolled it out in Seattle, it was a whole philosophy. It wasn't just commercials, even though it came across as a commercial strategy, it was really an entire way of thinking about presenting radio in a different way.

Matt Cundill  4:06  
Tell me a little bit about when you made the jump. You were inside The End, you had gotten elevated a couple of times, but in 2021 you made a jump. Corporately, you got a nice job doing digital. Was that tough to leave behind radio and sort of shifted digital, or was it a little bit more natural for you because you'd originally come from digital?

Leslie Scott  4:26  
So yeah, my background Matt is, I have come up through radio programming, radio promotions, all of that. But then at some point in my life, I became the digital person, because I was the person who understood Facebook, basically, and then I took on email, and then I took on apps and all these different things, because I was the person who was the demographic who used all of those things. And so in 2021 there was an opportunity at Audacy. They had launched what was called the exclusive stations, and these were. Digital music stations that were curated by human beings and available on the Audacy platform, and there wasn't anybody overseeing those. And so to me, it was an obvious next step in my career, because I have the radio programming background and also the digital background. And so that opportunity seemed like a natural fit. Of course, I missed radio like radio is this living, breathing, nimble medium, and while we could do a lot with the digital music platform, it isn't the same as having someone go live on the mic and say, there's a taco truck stuck in traffic on i Five right now, everybody run out and get your tacos or whatever it might be. There's something fun and nimble and local about radio that the digital music side of things doesn't offer. But what I did enjoy about that is that we really got wide and deep on different kinds of music, and it was really fun to be able to oversee stations that I've never gotten to touch in the radio world. 

Matt Cundill  6:15  
You're going to be the right person to answer this, because I know a lot of Canadians don't really understand sort of the different rules between streaming and the internet, and especially a company like Audacy that would geofence the radio station. So for instance, I could not listen to The End on my smart speaker because of where I was located and what my IP address was. But at the same time, you don't have commercials in any of the streams as well. So what are some of the rules that sort of govern around that? And so when you're operating with streams, what sort of sandbox does that give you? What are you allowed to do and what are you not allowed to

Leslie Scott  6:45  
do? The licensing rules are a little different. And so we we had guidelines. We had to follow around, how many songs from a certain artist could play in an hour, how many tracks from an album could play in an album, even if it was a compilation album of different artists. So there are, there's just different rules. Now, the digital stations that I oversaw did have commercials in them, so it was an ad supported free music platform, but it's a decision company by company, who wants to take on a global licensing perspective versus just a North American or just US based licensing perspective?

Matt Cundill  7:28  
So the last time we spoke, and I did go back and I ran a transcript of it, and back then, we didn't have transcripts that were easily accessible, like that. It's so easy now just to get a transcript. We spent a lot of time talking about music. We talked about Third Eye Blind. We talked about, you know, the pop feel and the mixing of the music. And, you know, 2016 27 2018 it was really about the music and the people on the radio station. I'll just use The End, because I had half your staff come on this podcast to talk about the experience. But it was really about, you know, the music, the curation of the music, and the personalities who would deliver the music. And sometime in 2019 Jacobs media had their tech survey, and they would ask, What do you like about radio stations, their personalities began to vault to the front. So you're sitting there as program director of a number of radio stations, and you're seeing this happen, but at the same time, there are cuts going on in the business, which are inevitable across every other radio company. So how did you wrestle with that? You must add some sleepless nights trying to figure out that balance.

Leslie Scott  8:33  
Sure, absolutely. And I think it's really something that the industry is struggling with, because personalities are so important to what we do. The truth is, is that people can find music any number of places now, but it's hard to find personality along with that music somebody to guide you into something new that maybe you don't know about, and why it's so important that you know about this artist, or even just something to brighten your day, something entertaining to brighten your day. So with, unfortunately, the cost cutting that has been happening, I think that radio has been able to spotlight personalities who are really bigger than life, and give them a bigger platform, which is incredible for people like Julia on the Audacy platform, who you know, went from having one station to being across many Unfortunately, due to budget cuts, but also because she is talented and is able To entertain across all these different geographical locations, across all these different platforms, social media, radio beyond and I think that's really important. And sure we can say that we're losing local personalities, and maybe that's a change in radio. But also because of that, we're able to shine a light. Be on so many talent who really are performing at such a high level and deserve to have a brighter light shined on them. 

Matt Cundill  10:08  
So that leads me to the next question, which I have written down, and I'm very excited that we've landed at this point, because it's an emotional one, but I'm going to ask you that to look at this one just from a managerial or without the emotion in it, because you had to let local people go, especially out of the midday show, and then maybe they were coming in from elsewhere, or maybe they were going to be the centerpiece, but the local part was going to disappear. And these are people that you see every day. And so if we just remove the personality side, where you're meeting people in the hallway and they're not there anymore, how would you judge the radio product? Was there anything that surprised you when the personality in that particular shift was not local.

Leslie Scott  10:45  
I think it depends station by station and case by case and personality by personality. There are some personalities who really take the time to feel local no matter where they are, and we see that across all companies, I would never pass a broad brush and say categorically, this is good or this is bad. I think it really depends on the station and the talent and the situation. 

Matt Cundill  11:12  
Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned that, because I know a lot of people go nuts when they hear, Oh, we're getting voice tracking, or this will be voice tracked. I've heard some really, really good voice track shows before, and I've also heard some very, very bad voice track breaks. Many of them were done by me and me. I mean, it was just something that I couldn't get. I just didn't I couldn't fathom recording something that would be playing off in a faraway situation. I just never got there. As a manager, what's the key to building a great team?

Leslie Scott  11:42  
That's a great question, Matt, and one that is important to me, because building teams is truly something that I love doing. I think to build a team, you have to learn who your people are as individuals, and learn how they can work together as a team. No team is functional without paying attention to who the individuals are who make up that team. So understanding the dynamics between your players is a must, because you have to understand what makes people tick individually to then put them together and let them shine as a team. It has to do with figuring out what you need. Part of being a manager is hiring for the things that you're not good at. Right? There are plenty of things that I'm not great at, and I've learned to hire people who can help me, because that's what they're good at. And so how do you get all of these pieces of the puzzle together? But to do that, you have to know what makes people tick in here. That's, to me, is the most important part. It's not you know, they say there's no I in team, but for me, it is the individuals that make up the team and the learning about them that make the team the strongest.

Matt Cundill  13:01  
So I asked that from a personal perspective, because I thought I was pretty good at managing people. I don't think I was very good at team building. It wasn't really something that I thought about. I thought team building was just getting together at my place and having a case of beer and some pizza. It's more than that, though, right?

Leslie Scott  13:17  
There is more to it. Absolutely, I'm a really big believer in building people up in front of each other and letting other people celebrate each other's strengths, and making sure that we're doing that on a regular basis, and that everyone gets a celebration in a way that is appropriate for them. Again, going back to individuals, there are people who love attention. There are people who don't like attention as much. If we're talking about radio personalities, for the most part, they love attention. But in a broader team, you have all kinds of people, and so how do you celebrate those people in an appropriate way for them, so that each team member feels appreciated, but also there is mutual appreciation across the team. 

Matt Cundill  14:05  
Can I have some advice for somebody who is restructured out of their job? What is the best way that they should spend the next six months?

Leslie Scott  14:14  
This hits close to home, Matt, because as someone who was recently restructured out of a job, I would say, and maybe I should take my own advice. I think it's not just immediately getting on the phone and trying to find the next thing. I think it's really taking a few months to think about, what did you love about your last job? What did you want to change about your last job? Who have you loved working with and why and how do you look for a situation similar to that? Again, on the flip side, how do you make sure you don't end up in a toxic situation that you may not want to be a part of? And then there's also reassessing. Do you still love what you were doing, or is it time to pivot to do something else? And you. I can only speak from my own experience. Talk to the people you trust, talk to your friends, talk to your family, hire a coach. There are some things that are worth having an outside perspective on. And I do think right now in our industry, there are so many opportunities, but they look different. And so I think having an outside perspective to have someone say to you, have you ever thought about this? I see this as a skill. Maybe you've never seen this skill within yourself. Have you thought about applying it in X, Y or Z ways? 

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Matt Cundill  16:08  
Did you have a chance to see AQ6 from Jacobs Media, the research that came out?

Leslie Scott  16:13  
I've seen a little bit. Yeah. I've seen the blogs that Fred has written about it.

Matt Cundill  16:17  
When he did his presentation, I thought one of the things that he really highlighted was the lack of progress for women in the radio stations in terms of representation, the number just hasn't moved, going back to 2019 I think there was some identification. There was a little bit of change, 2017 2018 but it has stayed the same for a number of years. For somebody who has seen inside the pickle jar of a radio station and the industry as a whole. What's your take on that? Why? Why are we stuck?

Leslie Scott  16:46  
Yeah, so it's interesting. You bring that up. I'm a part of an organization called mentoring and inspiring women in radio, and we do a study every year about women in management positions in radio, and we have seen that in programming, we are stuck at about 11% of the total industry being women in charge of programming, and so taking that and going the next step to women on the air, I think it's really important to get more women interested, and not just interested, but then give them that chance to actually get on The air, get behind the scenes, learn, I think that there is still a thought in the industry bubbling under that women just aren't that interested in leading in this business. And I have to tell you that that is absolutely false. I know so many women who want the opportunity to lead, and I'm not saying be program directors of radio stations, but be leads on a multi person ensemble show. We still have very much typecast women as the giggle girls or third mics, or whatever it is. There are so many strong female personalities out there who should be leading their own shows and not just be cast as, Oh well, she can do the Hollywood Minute or whatever. And I would love to see more chances taken on some of these up and coming female stars, because they're out there and they get it in so many ways. They understand the radio side of it. They understand the emotional connection. They understand the social media engagement and connection piece of being a modern on air talent. And I just think there's a ton of opportunity there. And I would challenge our leaders in radio right now to take a chance.

Matt Cundill  18:36  
Another one of the slides that I saw sort of showed that most radio stations morning shows would have a Gen X or older millennial who would be leading the show, male and the female would have that secondary role and likely be millennial or younger millennial. And it kind of felt like every radio station that I listened to around America and Canada for that matter. But I think that there's sort of like a lot of boxes being checked. Got a millennial check, got an older veteran guy check, open them together on the show, check. And I kind of feel like some boxes are being checked, and there's no real sort of outside thinking about what we're going to do with our big shows on the radio.

Leslie Scott  19:14  
Yeah. I mean, I would agree with you, Matt, and by the way, I'm happy to see that, like having a woman on a show is now part of a box to check, because that was not the case 10 or 15 years ago. So I guess that is progress. But why are we looking as okay? It has to be an older man and a younger woman. What about two different women? Women, you can't just say women as a whole are a monolith. There are a million different kinds of women. They have many different perspectives, and I think that radio listeners would love to hear different kinds of women on shows together. There are different perspectives, there are different personalities, there are different life situations, and you know, especially on. Email focused radio stations, your female listeners are having all kinds of conversations with their friends. Why not bring that on the air and let them have that reflected back to them in the programming they listened to?

Matt Cundill  20:14  
One of the big struggles I know a lot of radio stations have is the digital assets, and you're the perfect person for this, because you've spent so much time on the marketing side, but as well, you've got a nice, big digital toy box that you can tell us about. And so when you listen to radio, a lot of people will go on and they'll do their show, and that piece of content only gets used once, and then it disappears off into the ether, never really to return again. And so for anybody who's listening to this who wants to expand on that and use a piece of content another way. What are some of the ideas? What are some of your favorite toys? What are some of your favorite strategies in order to make your content live and breathe just a little bit longer?

Leslie Scott  20:52  
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I would say for, really, for any talent, ensemble or solo, having cameras in the studio at this point is so important, and even if it's just your cell phone on a tripod, being able to capture your expression. Because of course, radio is an audio medium, and we need to champion that. Audio has never been more popular, but we now have the ability to show who we are as human beings as we talk about these topics. So how do you take a bit that you've done and turn it into a social media reel? How do you turn it into a podcast? I would say those are my two biggest tools in the toolbox. If you're not doing those things, start now like there is opportunity there. I have to shout out the Brett maker show on ky ky in St Louis, they do an awesome job of taking their bits and turning them into social media with captions, so that even if someone is like laying in bed and their partner is asleep, you can still see what they talked about on the show that day and get that connection to them. There are so many shows who have great podcasts, and not just saying, you know, we're just going to take what we've done in the show and repurpose it as a podcast, but specifically say, Okay, this is a compilation of the segments we talked about today that are all specifically about this topic and getting more granular with it and getting more focused with it, and then promote those across your email, blast your social media channels, your individual social media channels, not just for the show, but for your own personal social media, if you still have a text platform, if you're sending texts like those kinds of things, reach people where they are and give them the nuggets. Because across social media, those are the things that are going viral. Are these little these little nuggets of entertainment. And so how, as a talent, can you take those nuggets and share them in places so that people can a be entertained, but B continue to learn more about who you are and what you stand for.

Matt Cundill  23:05  
Okay, so let's say I was working for you. I have an afternoon show, and you see that I'm working really, really hard to make a lot of reels and to make a lot of YouTube connection points and some highlight reels. And then you see I'm spending a lot of time and not I don't want to say I'm wasting my time doing it. But how would you look at the ROI on all those things I'm doing to make a judgment about what is good and what is bad?

Leslie Scott  23:31  
Yeah, I think that's a great question. I mean, it comes down to engagement, right? Like, if you're spending so much time crafting what you think is the perfect real and you're doing this over and over, day by day, and we're just not getting the engagement. That's a conversation that we should have together and say, Where do we think we're missing the mark here? Like your content is great on the air, it's clearly connecting ratings wise, brand building wise. There's something about this that isn't connecting on social. And what do we need to do? Do we need to use different hashtags? Do we need to promote it differently? YouTube would be, you know, the same case. How do we need to promote this differently and really drill down on that? And it may come down to, maybe there's only a certain kind of content that works well, a certain topic, for example, you know, focus on that. We all have so much on our plates in this industry right now, especially our on our talent. So, you know, what can we do to get the most juice out of the squeeze? 

Matt Cundill  24:36  
You mentioned that about talent being busy, and one of the things that did come up in AQ6 was, how many hats is too many hats for talent. So do you have a take on that? I think everybody gets two or three hats to wear at a radio station, sometimes one, if you work in the right market. And there were a number of people who said that they just really have one hat and just do one thing at the radio station, which is good. But do you have. A combination of magic number of where it becomes too many.

Leslie Scott  25:05  
Again, I think this goes back to coaching the individual. What are that person's superpowers? If someone loves doing certain things, if they wear two or three hats, but there are two or three hats of things that they're really good at it's going to, I think, feel like less pressure than sort of putting a box around someone and saying, Oh, well, you once had one real go viral. You're in charge of the social media for the whole cluster. Like, okay, maybe not. But I think it's really knowing the talent of your talent, and figuring out what makes sense. And then, by the way, hiring for what you need, finding the right person to fit a box that you may have, as opposed to taking someone and saying, Oh, well, we think you should write the email now, well, does this person know how to write? Do they know how to spell? Do they enjoy writing, or do they just like turning on the mic and free flowing? There are different kinds of talent. There are different kinds of people. How do we make sure that we are giving people the duties that make sense, to grow them and to make them feel good, instead of just feeling like, oh, this is more work, because I've been told to do this. But Matt, to go back to your original question, I know that this isn't reality, but like, I would love for our air talent to be social media, focused, focused on their show, and contribute creatively to the station, whatever that means. But I do think that wearing too many hats, it can negatively affects the culture and the On Air product.

Matt Cundill  26:44  
Yeah, and it was always the salespeople who would come up to me and say, why are we doing all this social media? What's our ROI on it? Why are we just leaning and I said, Well, we sent morning show down to the hospital with teddy bears to pass those out. What's the ROI on that? We do it because it's good. We do it because it connects. And there's a digital way to do that as well, right?

Leslie Scott  27:07  
It's building a brand. The way I look at things, and I'm sure we talked about this in 2016- it's a brand that you're building. It's not just a stick in the ground that transmits a radio signal. It is entire ethos, and social media is very much a part of that. And ROI or not, growing that part of your brand is important.

Matt Cundill  27:31  
2016 when we spoke, we talked a lot about millennials. We hadn't even started this other monster called Gen Z. But here you are. You're in the digital position at Audacy, one of the big radio companies of America, and you're in charge of digital audio content, and there's Gen Z so what do they like in terms of audio, by the way? And full disclosure, I've got three of them upstairs, and I don't understand my kids either.

Leslie Scott  27:58  
Maybe you should be telling me this, Matt, what do the Gen Zs want to see?

Matt Cundill  28:03  
They would like to today, not come over and have to move the sofas and the furniture that I've asked them to do, nor take out the garbage. I mean, when you're sitting in a position of you've got to try and reach all the Gen Zs out there as much as possible with audio. I guess the question is, how does it differ from millennials? Shorter attention span different platforms. 

Leslie Scott  28:24  
And that's a good question. I would say the thing that I've noticed the most- and listen, I read about this like everyone else, I do not have Gen z's in my house. I have Gen z's in my life, and what I've noticed with them is that they have very short attention spans. And by the way, the millennials attention spans are not great either, and I can speak from experience on that, but when I talk about bite sized content, we have to entertain in bite sized content, not just for ppm, but also for social media, because Gen z's, they're just- they're scrolling. They're just scrolling. 

Matt Cundill  29:00  
If you really want to have a good film bisp, I suggest that we sit at Gen Z down and make them sit through an 80s song. They can't do it. I watch them squirm. They can't handle not having the hook right up at the front of the song. They get so uncomfortable and they don't understand the guitar bit in the middle.

Leslie Scott  29:19  
Yeah, I mean, that's a whole shift in the music industry as a whole, right? Like the way songs are crafted is different now because of the way you're listening to music. I mean, a five minute song, it's unheard of in 2024 you know, you get that hook right up front. You may not have a bridge. You definitely don't have a guitar solo, unless maybe you're Dave Grohl. But music is different. Not only does radio need to be different for Gen Z, but music itself is different.

Matt Cundill  29:54  
What's the longest song you added to a playlist in the last decade? 

Leslie Scott  29:58  
I honestly can't- I cannot answer that, I don't know, I don't know. 

Matt Cundill  30:02  
Yeah, I remember the times of just about every song out there. That's what happens when you're, you know, we're programming music for such a long period of time, I would know how long a song is. But, I mean, what is the average you would get three minutes and change. What's the average length of a song on alternative radio? That's new on the currents?

Leslie Scott  30:18  
You know, I would say when I left alternative in 2021 the average would be about three minutes. I imagine it's a little shorter now, but I can't speak to that.

Matt Cundill  30:28  
How's anybody go to the bathroom? Oh, nevermind we got auto. 

Leslie Scott  30:31  
It's a different world. 

Matt Cundill  30:32  
We're gonna make a reel from this, because that's what we do, right? It's video, and we want to be able to get the content out of there. What are some of your favorite ways of distributing video. Do you have a favorite Instagram? Tiktok?

Leslie Scott  30:44  
I like Instagram because I'm a millennial. I'm an Instagram reel person. Now, I know people love Tiktok as well. I'm not there as frequently, but like, send me all your Instagram reels.

Matt Cundill  30:56  
Do you do the scroll where you just sit there for an hour and just scroll through reels?

Leslie Scott  31:01  
Oh, yes, I've addled my brain. I have zero attention span. This podcast is the longest thing I'll do all day.

Matt Cundill  31:09  
So it's addictive, right? 

Leslie Scott  31:10  
Absolutely. 

Matt Cundill  31:12  
That can't be good for us. No, no,

Leslie Scott  31:14  
none of this. I've read study after study and- and as humans, we are not in a good place when it comes to what we're doing to our brains.

Matt Cundill  31:23  
This is a very cliche question, but what's next for you? What would be your ideal next?

Leslie Scott  31:29  
Listen, I love programming radio, and I would love to get back to a situation where we can make a difference in a local market with local programming and cut through noise and do something that's innovative and different and makes a difference. That's my ideal. But there are many other opportunities. I still love the digital side of things, and would love to help grow brands with their digital presence. That's a big open question for me right now, Matt, I'm- I'm looking at everything. 

Matt Cundill  32:04  
I think anybody who brings you on is lucky to have you, because I've watched what you've done for, you know, the last decade since we first did this episode, and I just marvel at the work that you've done and the progress that you've made, and how much and how well you understand radio and digital wherever you go. It's going to be great.

Leslie Scott  32:21  
I really appreciate that, Matt. Thank you.

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  32:23  
The Sound Off Podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill. Produced by Evan Surminski. Edited by Taylor McLean. Social media by Aidan Glassey. Another great creation from the Soundoff Media Company. There's always more at soundoffpodcast.com.