Maie Pauts: Low Maintenance Maie

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Sound Off Podcast. The show about podcast and broadcast starts now.

Matt Cundill  0:12  
In June of last year, I watched Maie Pauts receive the Rosalie Trombley Trailblazer Award. Radio Trailblazers is an organization recognizing women who blaze new trails in radio for almost 20 years. Now, generally at these events, there's a very cool video that plays before the recipient comes on stage to accept the award. Maie's program director Troy McCallum said in the video:

Troy McCallum  0:34  
Low maintenance Maie is what they've been calling you, and it's something that you have taken the torch and ran to the finish line with numerous times. You are passionate, you're hard working, you kick ass on the air, you are a ratings deliverer. How many times you've been number one now? Huh? Yeah.

Matt Cundill  0:56  
So now you get a good idea of what we're in for in this episode. And I thought when I do the episode with Maie, Low Maintenance Maie is going to be the title of the episode. Maie Pauts has spent her whole career in Toronto, and why wouldn't she? Every time she left one legendary radio station, there was another there to pick her up. CFNY, CHUM, BOOM. You know what I'm saying. Quick side note from Amanda Cupido, who is fronting the next generation of radio trailblazers. They have issued a call for nominations for the Rosalie Award, annually handed out at Canadian Music Week, and of course, in the spirit of the legendary CKLW music director Rosalie Trombley. If you know someone worthy of the award, there's a link in the show notes to nominate that person. And now, Maie Pauts joins me from Toronto. What was your first love? Was it music or radio?

Maie Pauts  1:48  
Music. Yeah, music. And I think, Matt, I may have come into radio in sort of the way that you did. I went to college, and was taking radio and TV. So I think it's kind of funny to say that I didn't think about a career in radio, but I didn't. When I went to Ryerson to take radio and television, I had visions of doing production in television. And then along the way went and joined the campus radio station. Because, again, I did love music. And there was an opportunity to do a show there. And I took it and quite frankly, it was just an aha moment as Oprah likes to say, where I went wow, this is great. This is incorporating something I love so much, which is being a music geek, and my gift of gab, and I just fell in love with radio at that point.

Matt Cundill  2:37  
How would you describe the musical style, if I got a chance to flip through the vinyl you had?

Maie Pauts  2:42  
The show that I did was very R&B and dance and funk music oriented, with some alternative stuff thrown in, too, like I was playing things like Talking Heads, but also a lot of like Parliament, Funkadelic and the Gap Band. And you know, so it was- as is the case with campus radio, it was broad, but within the parameters of being sort of like a funky show. And- and I did do that for a number of years. Eventually it morphed into something called the GoGo Show. Initially, when I started it was just a two hour show during the day. And it was 11 to 1, it was a variety of music, of course lots of Canadian because you still had to do that too. And my- my news guy was Ralph Benmurgee. Yeah, and I was 11 to 1 and I think we had a 12 o'clock newscast. So that was kind of cool.

Matt Cundill  3:31  
What was the frequency and call letters of the station at Ryerson?

Maie Pauts  3:36  
It was 88.1, and it is the station that ended up becoming Indie when there was some licensing changes. So I think when I initially started, I think we were always 88.1. Either we were just broadcasting in house, or within the first year of me being there, I'm trying to remember the timeline. It got that FM license, and it got its broadcast, if I'm not mistaken, off the CBC tower that was downtown. And so it was very small area that it- that it covered in the downtown core. 

Matt Cundill  4:08  
What came after the GoGo Show?

Maie Pauts  4:10  
I got a job at an AM station in Brampton, 790 AM  CKMW, and that station was half- half international Italian programming, and half English programming. And the English programming that they did was very r&b and funk and dance oriented. So I ended up getting a show there. And here's the crazy thing, it was in Brampton in the same complex as CFNY. And we shared the front door, I walked through CFNY, past their reception and everything, to the CKMW studios where I ended up doing middays there, and I ended up being a music director there. After Scott Turner, if you know Scott Turner, he was also at CKMW 790 Before CFNY. And both of us eventually made it down the hall to CFNY.

Matt Cundill  5:02  
So you've got your funky records, which you're going to play on one station. And then you both kind of wind up on CFNY. These stations weren't co-owned, were they?

Maie Pauts  5:12  
They were before we got there. But when we got there, the ownership had already been divided. But they were still sharing the facility. They were still sharing the building. It was a strip mall in Brampton, the upper level of a strip mall. You know, people think radio is so glamorous, it's not.

Matt Cundill  5:31  
I've seen pictures of it. 

Maie Pauts  5:32  
Yeah. 

Matt Cundill  5:33  
In folklore and people speak of these incredible, you know, days at- at CFNY. 

Maie Pauts  5:40  
Yeah.

Matt Cundill  5:41  
That I didn't even get to listen to, because I didn't grow up in Toronto. But I've- I've heard about it. So if you can encapsulate, in whatever way you can, why that station was so special in that era?

Maie Pauts  5:55  
Well, because- and I do remember going to shows like The Pretenders and Ska shows. And it wasn't music that was being played really in any other place, campus radio would play some of these bands, the punk bands, the Ska bands, some of the funky stuff that I just talked about wasn't going to get played anywhere else. But CFNY had a very freeform format. And you could play that stuff. As a matter of fact, individual announcers- you could bring your records in and play a lot of stuff that you wanted. More on the overnights eventually. And as years went by, things got a little bit more restricted, as was going to happen. But nonetheless, it was the station that was playing such a great variety, and really what a lot of young people were listening to, you know, it's not like you were going to hear a lot of this stuff on a Q107 or CHUM FM, who were, you know, huge juggernauts in the market at the time, or- they were playing great music, but they weren't playing some of those artists at the time.

Matt Cundill  6:58  
And what was the signal like? Because this is a Brampton radio station, I seem to recall 80% of the signal got into Toronto, is sort of what my memory says.

Maie Pauts  7:07  
And then eventually, it also went off the CN Tower. And they were still considered a Brampton/Peel Region radio station. But the signal did broadcast off the CN Tower eventually. And that was a- obviously a big game changer, because prior to that, the dedicated fans- and they used to talk about this, they would phone us saying, oh, yeah, you know, I've got my my rabbit ears up and my tin foil and I'm- you know, I'm getting you in, but I'm losing you after, you know, eight in the morning, but I can get you again at night. After- after we got to the CN Tower, it was a game changer.

Matt Cundill  7:43  
So you're getting a paycheck from CFNY. How much of that paycheck did you need to reinvest into purchasing new records? And where did you buy those records? Was there an import store?

Maie Pauts  7:57  
Oh, I didn't have to. I didn't have to, you gotta remember, as you know, if you're a music lover, you're buying that stuff anyway. The greatest thing was getting into the industry and getting free records from record companies. That was like, what? This is the best thing ever, y'know? That was back when they did come with tons of free records, and promo stuff. You know, the record companies were making money hand over fist back then. And they were very, very giving of their product. And so- but aside from that, I definitely did buy records, and I bought from you know, StarSound, which was a great dance music place on Yonge Street, Record Peddler, because it was also the love of some- back then, even though you're into new music, you also would like to get into the old- older stuff, too. But your Sam the Record Man's and your ANA's and all that were also viable choices to go and get your records, for sure.

Matt Cundill  8:17  
Did I hear that you wanted to be a record rep at one point? 

Maie Pauts  8:56  
Before I even started at Ryerson. I had- I had made a friend with a gentleman who was a record rep, he worked for Warner Brothers. And this was before I was starting at Ryerson. And I was intrigued by what he did. And this was late 70s. So I talked to him about it. And I said, gee, you know, your gig seems pretty good. I wonder if that would be something that I should pursue. And being the late 70s, he said, well, he says, I don't know if you'd have a good time or an easy time finding a job, because women in promo are sort of- it's not an opportunity that's easily there, because quite often they're worried about women being groupies, they're worried that you- you're supposed to be taking these artists around to interviews and things but, you know, they really don't want someone who's potentially groupie-like for that. And I'm like, oh, okay. Now there were women who got into it shortly thereafter, or in about that time, were not groupies and they did a great job. But I remember that sort of made me go, oh, really? And I just sort of put that on the back burner because I just thought okay, well there's there's no future there for me then.

Matt Cundill  10:01  
Best years at CF NY for music? And the most fun you had, I guess.

Maie Pauts  10:05  
Well, I got there in 86. There were a lot of great years before I got there, for sure. The spirit of radio goes back to late 70s, early 80s. And I was there from 86-87 to 2000, I think it- no, 87 to 2001. So I was there for the tail end of what they call the spirit of radio and a lot of the British independent artists and sort of like the Depeche Mode and the Simple Minds when they were breaking out and the U2's and things which were also carry- a carry over from my campus radio days too, because I played all those bands in campus as well. With CFNY- and actually, I gotta say, I did that campus radio show until the Friday night that I started at CFNY. So even though I've been working at CKMW, the AM station, during the day, I would still host my weekly Friday night GoGo Show in Toronto, downtown Toronto, I kept both up. They didn't- they didn't see that as a conflict, either one of them. But when I started at CFNY on the Friday nights, I had to give up the Friday night GoGo Show, the campus show. And then I was working at CFNY. And that was still a- to me an incredible era, things shifted drastically as we got into the 90s, because the music scene changed, and there are those who will say that was a golden era of music. So, you know, when we talk about the great years, it's subjective right? 90s had an incredible time too, with bands like Nirvana and, you know, Rage Against the Machine coming out, and you know, Fiona Apple, and it had its own glory in its own right. 

Matt Cundill  11:41  
Alright, so is it fair to say that the tough period for a station like CFNY, I feel, might have been 1988 to 1991? Glass Tiger, for instance, showed up on the on the radio station getting airplay. It got weird.

Maie Pauts  11:57  
It was less about Glass Tiger, which may have been a bit jarring to some, but was more about when we went through a period with Madonna and Bon Jovi that really threw people off, because that was such commercial music. And it was at a time when we went through an ownership change. It was actually an ownership change was pending, and that there was a desire to bring the ratings up on the station, to see bigger numbers for the new owners. And yeah, it worked. I mean, you know, when you play huge commercial hits, you are going to get more listeners, but it was at the expense of the previous core listeners, who felt so betrayed and upset about now having to share this radio station with that music. It's not to say that there's anything bad about Bon Jovi or anybody else, but it's just that that wasn't what they were looking for at CFNY when they were tuning into CFNY.

Matt Cundill  12:56  
To be fair, it's not a terrible era for music. There are other radio stations across North America who are playing Modern Rock, alternative as it were. I think WDRE in Long Island is a great example of that. There were bands, some great records like Smithereens. Oh

Maie Pauts  13:12  
Oh, yeah. 

Matt Cundill  13:13  
Yeah. 

Maie Pauts  13:14  
What a great band. 

Matt Cundill  13:15  
Ugh. I was playing it for friends, and they weren't quite sure where it came from, and I said oh, I heard this on CFNY. Just to clarify, because earlier I said I'd never really heard the radio station. I was then working in radio, doing an all night show. But I would listen on the satellite. While I'm doing my show, playing pop music, I'm listening to CFNY and enjoying that at the same time. 

Maie Pauts  13:39  
Right. Yeah, no, the- well the CFNY audience was such a loyal one. And it- it was a strong audience. I think that- and I've al- I don't know enough about sales and business. But I always feel as though, and I always felt, that CFNY was able to do well, because the audience was so loyal to the brand. So even if you didn't have huge numbers, whoever advertised with you was going to do well because, for example, when I was 15, and I had the money to buy my first stereo system, I knew exactly where I was gonna go. And it wasn't anywhere- I lived in Willowdale. But I went way out to Etobicoke to Fairview Electronics, because Pete and Geetz did their remotes from Fairview Electronics. And they had all these commercials on CFNY. So as a listener, this was well before I worked there, I just, you know, had my money and I was like, okay, well, then I'm gonna go to Fairview Electronics now and drop my $1,000 on my stereo system here. And that was very true of a lot of people in the advertising world that we were in.

Matt Cundill  14:48  
Tell me about interviewing artists. There's a lot of interviews that are being conducted, we're doing one right now, for instance. There's a lot of interviews being done on podcasts, and there's a lot of them being done badly. So I think for anybody who has the opportunity right now to take some notes, when an artist comes to the studio, or you find out you're going to be interviewing, let's say, Depeche Mode or anyone, how do you prepare for an artist interview?

Maie Pauts  15:12  
Absolutely research them. And listen, in the case of an artist who's got new music absolutely, listen to their music, their new music, and if you can, even their older stuff, if you want to really know them. But you have to be prepared. When artists are coming in for interviews, it's not just for the heck of it, they're there to promote something. So be prepared to talk to them specifically about what they're there to promote, in a knowledgeable way. So that means listening to it. And if you can- in this day, I keep thinking how great it is now, because we can do so much research online. And Matt, you- you'll remember, I'm sure, that when we first started doing interviews, you were relying on buying Spin Magazine and Rolling Stone and- and whatever all source, and getting the facts is, the bio facts from the record company, which was usually just a page. So you- you really had to dig and find- and now- now, definitely use the internet. But also be wary of the internet, because sometimes what you're reading isn't accurate. So just do your research and listen to what they're there to talk to you about.

Matt Cundill  16:23  
Do you have a memorable interview?

Maie Pauts  16:25  
I have so many. I've been so blessed. The only thing I will say is, it's not the case for anything from CHUM FM, which I went to in 2002 onwards. But prior to that in the 90s, 80s and 90s, I don't think I kept almost anything. We did everything on reels, and those reels, I don't know where they ended up. But I had a phone interview with David Bowie, which was like, whaaat? I had a great interview with Christie Hind, I had a terrific interview with Elvis Costello. Unfortunately, the mic connection wasn't good. So I only got every- any third- every third syllable out of that interview. Depeche Mode came in to see us a fair bit. Those were great ones from from the 80s, and in the 90s, of course, we had lots. In the 90s, I didn't do as many interviews because I was mid days, and we had an evening show called Live in Toronto. And so they mostly came in- I used to do Live in Toronto in the 80s. But in the 90s, I went to mid days. And so most of the artists that came in in the 90s were being interviewed for that show. In the 2000s. I got right back into doing a lot of interviews with CHUM FM, and there were some terrific ones there. Memorable one, George Michael was a terrific interview that I enjoyed. Madonna, which was memorable because I was just terrified to go to New York to interview her, and I was very nervous about talking to her. I've had great interviews with Beyonce and P!NK and Bryan Adams a couple of times. Bryan Adams is someone you better be prepared for, is what I'll tell you right now. If you're ever interviewing Bryan Adams, you just make sure your research is done. He's very good. But he's very particular about that.

Matt Cundill  18:03  
So if you go into Bryan Adams' interview, and you have the same questions that the last five people had, it's not gonna go well, I figure.

Maie Pauts  18:11  
I don't think that that's the problem, because I think they understand that you're getting your interview for your audience, and someone else is getting their interview for their audience. A professional like Bryan Adams will understand that. And he will answer those questions as freshly as he did the first time. So there's nothing wrong with having the same questions, because you are trying to to give your audience something, you know, that- you don't know if they're listening anywhere else, or getting that information anywhere else.

Matt Cundill  18:41  
So I remember this from- from- from the award ceremony last year, I think there was a picture of you on stage pregnant and then somebody had said that you were doing an appearance at night, and then the next day you gave birth. 

Maie Pauts  18:55  
Yes. 

Matt Cundill  18:56  
Do you remember where the appearance was? 

Maie Pauts  18:59  
Yep. The A Club. How wackadoodle is this? I was hosting- all through the 80s and 90s, I hosted club nights. CFNY was really big on that, hosting nights, it was a big thing for the 80s and 90s, to go dancing at the clubs. And you know, we'd show up and I'd be the- I'd have a DJ usually spinning the tunes, but I'd be, you know, microphone in hand, giving out prizes and getting the crowd going and stuff. And it just so happened this A Club was run by a former CFNY sales guy, Andy Semmis, he was such a sweetheart. And it was an all ages club. And I'm like hosting Saturday nights there. As pregnant- as preg- which seems like such a- like looking back, like, really? I'm like, eight and a half months pregnant here, and I'm hosting a night for all ages. It was kind of silly, but it was a great time, and that night he actually drove me home because he was like, you're due the next day, right? I said yes, I got home. And yeah, I literally got up that morning on a Sunday morning and went, hey, you know what? I'm in labor. And by Sunday, supper time, I had a lovely daughter, Lauren.

Matt Cundill  20:09  
I see God is shining his light upon you right now. 

Maie Pauts  20:11  
Yes he is, from the- from my office. There you go. So, yeah, no, that was funny. But I also worked until that Friday night with Scott Turner at CFNY pre recording stuff, because I was going to be off for three months. And we wanted to have a whole bunch of stuff in the can. So that Friday, I worked 'til- I don't know, midnight. That Saturday, I went out and did a club gig. And then Sunday, my daughter was born. And then I started my maternity leave. So I worked right up into the very last second. It was great.

Matt Cundill  20:40  
So just to review, everybody: worked right up until the last second, and you had three months off afterwards. 

Maie Pauts  20:47  
That was it. That's all we got back then. 

Matt Cundill  20:50  
Wow. 

Maie Pauts  20:51  
Yeah, maternity leave is now much better. And I'm so happy about that for women. 

Matt Cundill  20:56  
That's incredible. 

Maie Pauts  20:58  
Hey, it's still better than most states. I think they only get like two weeks or something in the- in the US.

Matt Cundill  21:03  
I remember the uproar when Nina Cherry performed at seven months pregnant, and just the debate that took off after that. 

Maie Pauts  21:10  
I don't know why. 

Matt Cundill  21:12  
Yeah. And you're like hold my- hold my non alcoholic beer. 

Maie Pauts  21:15  
Right, exactly. 

Matt Cundill  21:18  
Why did you go to CHUM? 

Maie Pauts  21:20  
Well, I got laid off from- okay, first of all, I didn't get laid off from CFNY. CFNY did a restructuring, which basically means that you're gonna get laid off. But they were- they were changing things around. So all of us, Humble and Fred in the mornings, myself on middays, and Alan Cross in the afternoons, we were basically told, you know, want to explore some other things in the company? And if you don't, then we'll give you a package. So- and before I could figure out what I wanted to do, Stuart Myers, who had been the PD at CFNY, was now going to head up Mojo magazine at 680, an AM station, a talk radio show for guys. 

Matt Cundill  22:02  
640. 

Maie Pauts  22:02  
640. Thank you, sorry, 640. And he reached out to me and said, hey, listen, how about you join us here to do a two hour midday talk show? And I thought, okay, so I did. I'd never done talk radio before, I thought- I looked at it as a new challenge, and accepted the opportunity. It lasted from May till November of 2001. So I got to do talk radio through 9/11, which was really something. And it was a- an absolute learning curve for me. Because you couldn't throw it to a record, you had to keep things going. If you didn't have a guest or they didn't show, you had to get callers. And sometimes that doesn't work. And I enjoyed it. I loved the experience. And I have so much respect now for the talk radio show hosts, because it is- it's a different challenge altogether. Anyway, so then I did that, but it really wasn't the right fit for me. It was weird. And they did lay me off from there in- I think it was October, November of 2001. And then I thought, well, that's it, my radio career may be done. And I started thinking about what I might want to do next. And I took a computer course, and I was doing this, and that, and thinking about maybe I'll take a real estate course. And then I did reach out to a few other stations, and before I heard back, I actually got a call from Rob Farina from CHUM FM who said, what? You're not working? Let's talk. And I said okay. So, by January, I was there. The following January. So I was only really out of work for a couple of months, few months, which, you know, I knock on wood here. I've got a wood desk here. Knock on wood. I've been really fortunate. And yeah, I was welcomed into CHUM with open arms with all those legends there. You know, Roger, Rick and Marilyn at the time, and Ingrid Schumacher. Wow, I- I'd never dreamt that I would get an opportunity at a major, real grown up station like that.

Matt Cundill  24:05  
Yeah, I mean, it's a blip in- in time. You going over to Mojo, Humble and Fred I think went as well to do mornings. 

Maie Pauts  24:15  
Yeah. 

Matt Cundill  24:15  
And you know, there's some comfort in there, because yeah, they were the ones who preceded you every day on- on- 

Maie Pauts  24:22  
Yes. 

Matt Cundill  24:22  
Yeah. So it just- it makes se- and I kind of look back at Mojo and think they didn't really give it enough time. Like most AM experiments, they don't give it enough time. But by the time you got laid off, were you- were you comfortable doing talk radio, or was it just a drag and difficult?

Maie Pauts  24:39  
I was- I would have been comfortable doing talk radio, I think, at a different station. I felt very- I- that format where they were really talk radio for guys. And they had a specific guy in mind. So so many times where I would come up with an idea related to guys that I knew, or topics that I thought would work, I was having a hard time with that. There was also so much emphasis on sports, which I have to tell you, is not my forte. And it was a real challenge for me having to talk to players and- and, you know, general managers of teams like Glen Grunwald at the time, and I really was a little bit of a fish out of water with that particular talk station. I don't know that it would have been as hard for me at another talk station.

Matt Cundill  25:24  
We recently spoke with Josie Dye, who's doing that move from alternative to pop. And there you are, you pretty much did the same thing. You went from alternative, and here you are, same station, doing the pop.

Maie Pauts  25:37  
I almost commented on her Facebook, because she's getting some wrath from some serious, you know, alternative music fans, and- and they almost- I almost posted, because there was all these people saying, oh, it's okay, you're doing great. And I did tell her she was doing great. But I almost felt like I was like, oh, my God, been there. But you know what, there's a lot of people that will understand. And also, she made a good point. This is what I've always said, for those of us who love music, we love all kinds of music. And when you say to someone like Josie, which she said people were saying, well, she's selling out, it's like, well, this is what we do. We sell our time and our capabilities for a paycheck. So we've been selling out since, like, day one, if that's what you're thinking, selling- I don't know what they mean by selling out. We're trying to make a living. So...

Matt Cundill  26:29  
Yeah, it's like when Metallica sold out. 

Maie Pauts  26:31  
Yeah. 

Matt Cundill  26:32  
San Jose, LA, New York, Chicago, Birmingham, Alabama. 

Maie Pauts  26:38  
And just because you embrace something else doesn't mean you still don't love what you were doing, or what you were associated with before. I would hate to think that music lovers are so one dimensional, like, Josie still loves the bands that she loved before as well and talked about, she's just now able to also talk about a whole new set of artists, and play different music that she didn't get to play before.

Matt Cundill  27:03  
Yeah, it's such a strange thing, especially coming from alternative. I mean, how many bands do you know that you interviewed? Who you- they didn't have any airplay, and next thing you know, they are on CHUM FM? 

Maie Pauts  27:13  
Yes. And then you know what? They used to hear that too, like the artists did too. Oh, they sold out. It's like, well, again, when you're talking about how you make a living, whether it's selling your music, or your broadcast capabilities, or whatever, yeah, we've been selling out all along. We're selling our time.

Matt Cundill  27:30  
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You got to play Beat the Bank a lot.

Maie Pauts  28:01  
Yeah, I sure did. And I got to be the voice of Beat the Bank too, for a long time. I was the lady of the "$100." 

Matt Cundill  28:10  
Oh, that was you? 

Maie Pauts  28:12  
I was the Beat the Bank lady. Yeah.

Matt Cundill  28:13  
Oh. So that's probably one of the more durable contests out there, and it still runs to this day. And it runs on multiple radio stations in different forms to get around copyright, and all that stuff. So tell me, why does that radio contest work?

Maie Pauts  28:30  
Oh, you want to play along with it. Any contest that allows the listener to play along is a success. So Beat the Bank, you're you're listening and you're waiting, and you're like, you're saying no- you're joining them going, no stop, don't go any further or keep going, keep going. It's not enough, or whatever. You can join in, just like with- with now, I think the biggest joy is listening to Stu in the mornings, doing his Stu Jeffries $1,000 Minute because it's a quiz. It's questions. And you're playing along, going I know that one. You're answering the questions with the person. So whatever contest that invites the listener to participate in that way is going to be a success.

Matt Cundill  29:12  
Was there ever a moment where you thought or considered you might move to another market? Or have you just been so entrenched in Toronto and so ingrained in the fabric of the city and the music scene, that it just wouldn't happen?

Maie Pauts  29:24  
There were a couple of opportunities that were presented that I maybe could have acted upon, but because I'm from Toronto, and I came from a very small family, this is my home, and I felt- I have an extreme loyalty. Family first for me on anything. So when there was a period of time, way back when I was with CFNY, to go down to the States, I was talking about an opportunity in Chicago to someone, I said no, I shut it down right away because I had a very- my daughter was little and I wanted to be close to my parents, her grandparents, and for my partner at the time, the states wasn't a viable option. So, you know, family first. So I didn't do that one. Then another opportunity came up that I did consider when I was at CHUM. And we put together a proposal to do an alternative radio station, more adult oriented, in Edmonton. And I was part of the committee that went to and from the CRTC, with Rob Farina, and we got the license. And the idea was that I would go out and program that station, and we got the license. However, the next thing that happened before it could be materialized was that CHUM got bought by CTV Bell Globe Media. That opportunity then came off the table. And as a matter of fact, they didn't even go through with that station, didn't even go and make it. So that opportunity didn't happen. Then when I started at BOOM, and I'd only been there for a short period of time, I got into a great conversation- I always thought I'd wanted to do mornings. And so here, I was now at mid days at BOOM. And an opportunity came up for mornings with a station with Rogers, and it was out west. And it was very exciting to me, because I've always wanted to be part of a team like that on a morning show. That's the difference between when you do a midday show, or whatever, you're by yourself. And that's fun. I love my show. But working with a team is kind of- it's a different kind of broadcast experience. And it's a lot of fun. However, when that opportunity came up, my dad had already passed away and my mum was on her own. And she lived close to me. And then I started thinking, well, I don't really want to move across the country and leave her sort of on her own. I mean, I did have a- I have a brother who was very helpful with my mom, but I was the one that lived really close to her. So I thought- and we are- we were very close. And actually I then turned down that morning show opportunity to stay at BOOM and to be again, family first.

Matt Cundill  29:24  
It's great. When- by the way, when did your time at CHUM end, and you made that jump to BOOM?

Maie Pauts  32:07  
CHUM ended in November of 2009. And I left to go to BOOM, starting January 2010. So a month after, about six weeks after, I went and started at BOOM.

Matt Cundill  32:22  
And because life is a blur, when I turned 40, which was my age in 2010, the current incarnation of BOOM, it's similar right? Classic hits and-

Maie Pauts  32:32  
It launched in the format that it is now, so prior to this, it was easy rock. It was actually my old boss at CHUM, Rob Farina, who was now at Astral, that's who- Astral and Rob and that were instrumental in launching BOOM 97.3, and he invited me to come and do- or they invited me because it wasn't just him. But they invited me to become a party- part of the BOOM team then. And I was really excited about it. Because in one respect, the format with its 70s 80s and 90s. And the best of those decades, and the artists that it plays are my history in broadcast. So it was like, I really felt this is awesome. I can play all the stuff that I played at all the other places I've worked here, you know, almost all of it. I mean, we're playing, obviously, the hits, the biggest hits from those decades.

Matt Cundill  33:30  
Don't hassle me, I've had a hand in launching all these bands you're hearing today.

Maie Pauts  33:35  
Do you know what, that's the- that's the thing that I love saying, I go, you know, I played this when it was a new release. When it first came out.

Matt Cundill  33:42  
And I look at the growth of- of BOOM, you know, another 70s 80s 90s radio station. We got a bunch of them across Canada, there's Bobs and Jacks all over the place. But BOOM, there's something that happened. And there's something that happens to radio stations, and morning shows and just about everything. Once you get past the three year mark and you become entrenched, you become heritage. It seems to work. It's a- it's a theory that I brought up a number of times on the show, namely with Valerie Geller, and I'll probably just insert the clip again right here. Why does it take three years to build a podcast or radio station or a morning show? And it's because three years is 1000 days. And generally that's habit forming, anytime you do something 1000 times. So you get to about 2013, and you start beating Q.

Maie Pauts  34:29  
Yeah, it was pretty, pretty phenomenal. And I think also too, the success of BOOM, you know, as far as the 70s 80s 90s and a retro format, you had to wonder is it going to fly, because many times it didn't. I think really what set us apart from the beginning was that we played music from the past, but we didn't broadcast talking about the past. I mean, we would give little things. Everything we talked about was current. It wasn't like I was gonna go on air, if I went on air, and only talk about things things that happened 30 or 20 years ago, we were very much talking about very topical things and events. And we were current. It's just that the music was older. That's all.

Matt Cundill  35:10  
So the question I had is, why is the brand so durable? Is that it? 

Maie Pauts  35:14  
That's why. I think it's because what we're doing is still current. I'll go in and talk about The Bear on on Disney Plus and what a great show it is. And every once in a while, I'll say, oh, yeah, we do- obviously, we'd say things like, you know, 30 years ago today, this happened or whatever, but we don't live in that. We don't spend an awful lot of time with that. The music is- is going to stand on its own anyway. So I think we just try to be very much in today. 

Matt Cundill  35:45  
And you're working with a group of people, Steve Jones, Steve Parsons, Troy McCallum, who- all music lovers, all tremendous programming, heritage, they've tried everything. And the station still is a little bit unafraid to play a song that might be a little bit different. 

Maie Pauts  36:06  
Yeah. And I gotta mention here, Wayne Webster, our music director. He's incredible. And I think one of our things with our success, a big part of our success is thanks to Wayne, because he reacts to what is happening in the moment. And so yeah, sometimes we'll play a song that isn't necessarily part of the the normal core of what we play, or the playlist, if it makes sense to play it that day. Or at that time, like, for example, the weather, if it's a gorgeous day. And it's unusual to have this kind of a beautiful day. And someone calls me and says, I want to hear Lighthouse - Sunny Days, I just call Wayne and say, hey, listen, let's make this happen. And he's like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. And so we- we work with our audience, and with the moment, more than anywhere else that I've worked in quite some time. Not afraid to sort of change things on the fly, which is key, I think, to tapping into what your listeners want.

Matt Cundill  37:07  
All I can think about is oh, shit, I forgot to mention Wayne. 

Maie Pauts  37:10  
That's okay. 

Matt Cundill  37:11  
Aw, I'm in so much trouble.

Maie Pauts  37:13  
I got it in there. I knew you were thinking it. And there were just so many names to have to remember.

Matt Cundill  37:17  
Damn, I'm in big trouble now for that. 

Maie Pauts  37:19  
Oh, yeah. I'm gonna tell him too, before even this airs, I'm gonna mention it.

Matt Cundill  37:24  
One of the things that came up, I mean, you've been a winner of the Rosalie Trombley award, you know, the ratio of men to women in radio has been fairly inequal for many, many years, and still remains to this day. And I mean, you- you pointed it out last year at at Radio Days, North America, when you were there. What's it going to take to tip the scale a little bit more female?

Maie Pauts  37:50  
Well, you know what, I'm seeing that there's a lot of women on air now, which is great. That- that scale, I think has sort of worked itself out. It's the moving up. And as long- I hate to say it, as long as the old guard is still there, and running things, it's going to be a very slow change. And there just has to be more women working up the ranks, and somebody who's- who is a male, at the top there, making that decision to open that door a bit more. I just find that that's where I see the biggest problem is in upper management, and working up to the CEOs and stuff. It's- it's not female oriented at all still, it's still very limited in that. Yeah.

Matt Cundill  38:33  
Yeah, and I'm sorry, if I presented the question where it sounds like there's been no progress made there. It's- it's- I just remember 15 years ago, being a- being at Corus and counting the program directors and I think there was one female. And it's- it's not like that anymore. It is- it is much better. But here's something that I see in stats, here's a podcast about broadcast and podcast. And I just pulled the Spotify numbers just to see what the balance is between male and female, and it's 84% male. And I'm like, well, I'm just talking radio here every day. And- and again, this is just Spotify. That's just a sampling of 8 to 10% of the- of our audience. So I'm like, hmm, I really hope I'm reflecting the industry a little bit better than that. 

Maie Pauts  39:19  
Well, from what I saw from your roster, you are. But I do think that this is the problem, that the people who are still in control and making a lot of the decisions, they're not women. Until the people that are upstairs are making that opportunity available. You know, it will happen, I'm assuming, but it's just really slow. Well, you already think differently than somebody probably 20 years your senior, right?

Matt Cundill  39:48  
I'd like to think so. But again, the people 20 years my senior trained me, so I I've had to unlearn things.

Maie Pauts  39:56  
But you have  unlearned things and that's good. And then whoever's behind you, they're not even- like 10 years down the road or 20 years down the road. Hopefully they don't even have to unlearn anything. They're already thinking in a broader way. So, that's the hope.

Matt Cundill  40:09  
You were mentioning about being on BOOM and talking about, you know, being and living in today. You have a TikTok account.

Maie Pauts  40:15  
Which I never use. You were gonna point that out, weren't you?

Matt Cundill  40:20  
Well, I mean, kinda gotta sorta, I mean, we're doing a video right now. Kinda gotta.

Maie Pauts  40:25  
You know, I never liked TikTok. And I always felt like I- I'm also very limited on how much I put out there anyway, even on Facebook or Instagram. I post things once in a while, but I'm not really engaged with it, as many people are. Because I just feel that there's such an abundance of stuff out there. And unless I've got something really important, or really worthwhile, maybe, or fun, even fun just to share, I don't see the point. It was like the night of the Grammys, when I was watching the Grammys, all of a sudden my Facebook feed when I went on it, everybody was talking about the same thing, about the Tracy Chapman performance and how great it was. And I thought I was gonna post something about that. And I thought, well, it's already been done. Nevermind. And I guess we can say, well, then people who are following me would see it. But yeah, I'm not sure always that I have to be that engaged unless I've got something that I feel is sort of fun or worthwhile to share.

Matt Cundill  41:25  
Was it just me, or was that the most relevant Grammys ceremony in years, like..? 

Maie Pauts  41:29  
Oh, the best. Oh, you know, between Tracy Chapman looking so happy to be there with Luke Combs. That song, I know that when he covered it, I thought meh. But when he introduced it and explained his reason for doing that song, I all of a sudden, liked Luke Combs and that song a lot better, and was cool with it all of a sudden, a different way. The other one that really moved me to no end, and I'm sure a lot of people felt the same way, was Joni Mitchell's performance of Both Sides Now, a song that she wrote when she was like 20, which when you listen to the lyrics, how do such deep and wise lyrics come from someone so young? It's almost like she's grown into that song at 80. It has a different and more substantial relevance now. When she sang it, my heart just was, you know, exploding.

Matt Cundill  42:19  
Yeah, truly an old soul. 

Maie Pauts  42:21  
Yeah. 

Matt Cundill  42:22  
You know, you mentioned the backstory. And I thought the Grammys, whoever produced this thing just did a great job about putting into context, whatever we were about to watch, and I turned to the people I was watching the show with, and by the way, the Gen Z's have no t- have no time for this show. There are no Gen Z's in the house who want to see this thing. They are off doing their own thing. They are gaming and doing other things. But so I kind of feel like the Grammys were maybe a little bit set for older people. However, you know, framing the Luke Combs story about driving in the truck with my dad, who would play the song, it became my favorite song long before I knew what music was. Oh, oh, and then I said, Look, Tracy Chapman's on stage. And here's a story about, you know, a rapper, okay, by the way, and this is when I turned to people, I said, it's so good that they have these backstories because the minute they announce a rapper, I'm gonna go get a drink. I'm gonna go to the bathroom. No, no, wait, I'm going to stay for the story first. 

Maie Pauts  43:24  
Right. 

Matt Cundill  43:24  
And I think BOOM does this really well, with some of the- some of the online stuff you've done, where you will have artists come in and listen to their songs, and tell me the story about the songs, whether it was, you know, Walk This Way or Candy & the Backbeat or whatever it is, you've got all this- you know, and that's why I know you're lamenting of a loss of all those reel to reel tapes.

Maie Pauts  43:45  
Oh my gosh, no kidding. But that Behind the Vinyl feature is a- is a genius idea, that- I think Troy came up with that. And I think our very first one were the two guys from Spandau Ballet for the song True. And since then- it's a cool thing, also, because it's a different way for the artist to talk about and engage about their own work. And it's fun. I think it can be fun for them too. Because as they're listening, you can sometimes see when you watch those videos, you can sort of sometimes see little sparks going off, going oh yeah, and I remember this happened when we were doing this recording and stuff. So you get- it- it really is a wonderful feature that I- that I think is is a wonderful asset to BOOM.

Matt Cundill  44:26  
The Rosalie's are coming up again, nominations are open for radio trailblazers. Do you have someone in mind? And you don't have to say who. Have you- have you filled out a nomination form? Is there someone you're thinking that should be winning this award?

Maie Pauts  44:37  
There's actually a couple, and I haven't filled out the forms yet. But there's always- there's a slew of amazing women, so there's no shortage of women that should be acknowledged. So I look forward to definitely nominating. I also look forward to going back and hosting which is something I did for years. So it was very funny when last year, Nancy reached out to me, Nancy Brown-Daco, who always- you know, is- she's involved with it. She always reaches out to me a few months beforehand, and we start talking about the show. And you know, I work with a script and everything. And she goes, Oh, she says, Maie, we're not going to have you as the host this year. And I said, okay, well, it's been a good run. I think I've been doing it for like 10 years or whatever, how many years? And I thought, that's fair enough. They want to get a new host. And she said, no, it's because we're giving you the award. I went, oh, wow, are you- I said, are you serious? Are you sure? I couldn't believe it. I was so stunned and just so honored. And it was- I don't know why it meant so much to me. After she said that, it meant so much to me that it came in the 40th year of me being a professional broadcaster. So when I say professional, I'd been doing CKLN before that for years. But it was in 1983 that I had my first job where I actually got a paycheck at CKMW doing radio. So to get the award in 2023 was really something, I thought, for me, because I don't know if I'll make 50. So 40 was pretty good.

Well, I was just honored to watch you onstage and receive the award. Most of these things happen by accident, because every year I'm like, Radio Days. Alright, fine. I guess I'll go. 

Yeah. 

Matt Cundill  45:51  
But then- but then great things happen, which is why I keep going back.

Maie Pauts  46:24  
It's a funny thing to to get an award. Wink was also honored last year at CKMW. And we were talking about that we both excited because we- you know, both were getting awards that year. And we both said, can you believe it? We're getting an award for coming in to work every day. Like, this is what we love to do. We just sort of can't figure out, what have we done to merit an award? We've just basically been doing what we love and showing up, you know, and so we were both kind of stoked and shocked- stocked- shocked and stoked. There you go. Those are the two words.

Matt Cundill  46:57  
Maie, thanks so much for being on the podcast and sharing your story. I really appreciate it. Took a little time for me to get around and to make all this happen, but I'm glad it happened.

Maie Pauts  47:05  
I'm glad it happened too. It's very nice to connect with you. That's nice. And I think it's interesting that we both sort of- if I'm not mistaken, we both sort of got into radio and broadcast in the same way. I think you started off in a different direction at university and then discovered the campus station and never looked back, right?

Matt Cundill  47:24  
You know what, just like Larry McKinnis. At Radio Acadia, we both started at Radio Acadia in Wolfville, Nova Scotia. =

Maie Pauts  47:32  
Wow, I didn't know that you worked with- that you started with Larry. I love Larry.

Matt Cundill  47:36  
Not with Larry. I was 10 years after him, but his- he left his DNA all over the board.

Maie Pauts  47:43  
He's a- he's the most kind and talented gentleman. And I'll tell you something. He helped me when I reached out, because I said I'm getting an award. I don't know- I don't know what I should be saying. So he helped me sort of formulate my my acceptance speech, or my thank you speeches, for Rosalie, and he's such a kind and perfect- perfect human.

Matt Cundill  48:06  
He also loved you voicing his spot.

Maie Pauts  48:08  
Oh yeah, I loved doing that too for him. Absolutely. That's great.

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  48:14  
The Sound Off Podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill. Produced by Evan Surminski. Edited by Chloe Emond-Lane. Social media by Aidan Glassey. Another great creation from the Soundoff Media Company. There's always more at SoundOffPodcast.com.