Sarah Burke: Women in Media Network

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  0:02  
The sound off podcast. This shallow belt, podcast and broadcast starts now.

Matt Cundill  0:12  
We have had Sarah Burke on this show a couple of times before, once when she was at Sirius XM and later when she launched her women in media podcast. Nearly three years later that podcast is now the flagship show on a network that is launched called the women in media Podcast Network. Sara is going to tell us who is on it. Full disclosure, Sara and I have worked on a few podcasts together that were on the soundoff Podcast Network, namely Donna murals through the fire and trust me, I'm a decorator with Debbie Travis and Tommy Smyth. The latter will be part of Sarah's new network of which I'm an advisor. Now, the owner of the women in media Podcast Network, Sarah Burke, joins me from Toronto.

Sarah Burke  0:51  
I didn't realize I've been on twice before I thought just once. I kind

Matt Cundill  0:55  
of had you on for a bonus episode, but then I left it in there. But it still says bonus episode. And we did it actually, when you were launching your podcast women in media?

Sarah Burke  1:05  
So we're coming up on two years? Yeah, actually longer. It's

Matt Cundill  1:08  
been three. Holy, where did that time go? But I want to roll it back even further than that to 2018. Because you were at Sirius XM. And then, you know, 2021 22, you weren't anymore. You made a departure? What have you been doing since that departure?

Sarah Burke  1:25  
Bothering Matt Kondal as many times a day as my phone permits. And it's really bad when you see Do Not Disturb on? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. It's funny that you were asking this question to begin, because I was reflecting on a journal entry that I wrote around March 2022. So we're coming up on two years since this entry. And at that point, I was using my podcast as a way to display my skills. And I was like, I'm gonna get hired at the next great job because of the skills that I will showcase on my podcast. And then I realized that that wasn't what I was trying to do at all. There's a little more of a purpose now. And I'm about to launch a podcast network.

Matt Cundill  2:17  
It's funny how that works out, you always think I'm gonna start a podcast, I'll get the skills needed. And it will take me to this next fantastic job for one of these companies that clearly is going to be investing in podcasting. And it never happens. You wind up just doing it yourself. Me, for instance, but but now you. So let me ask you, what's the name of the Podcast Network? How do we get on the network? And what's it all about?

Sarah Burke  2:41  
Don't be shocked at how creative I am. But it's called the women in media Podcast Network. I would say it's born out of the same thing as my podcast, which was my experience as a woman in media. But also a new landscape in media, where I think you and I are very aligned on this, where I think that content creators need to have more ownership and purpose with their own content. And a lot of the podcast networks out there, they want to split things 5050 down the middle with you. And I don't think either of us are trying to do that. We are trying to empower creators to do things themselves, with some advice about the best ways to do it.

Matt Cundill  3:24  
So one of the things that that comes up a lot on the show is three years to build an audience, three years to find yourself. It's in radio to three years for the radio station to become a heritage piece three years for your morning show to really take off and become established. And here you are three years into the women in media podcast. episodes have been coming out every two weeks, very consistent on that stuff. I see, I think take summers off every once in a while. But yeah, congratulations to that. So what is the podcast journey been like to get you to this point where now you're starting to network?

Sarah Burke  3:58  
I think the way that I once thought about podcasting was quite narrow compared to the way I think of podcasting today. And I have to give Matt a ton of credit, because a lot of my opinions about podcasting have been informed by things that we've worked on together. And I thank you for always like sharing the Good, the Bad and the Ugly along the way and during the process, because that has informed a lot of my opinion, where we sit today and 2024. And I also think that at one point, I was thinking about Super serving Canadians, and that is like the silliest idea, ever.

Matt Cundill  4:37  
Whatever makes you think that

Sarah Burke  4:38  
way. If you want to make it big and podcasting, you're podcasting to an audience that lives anywhere, they can listen on an app,

Matt Cundill  4:47  
and you and I had that conversation. I think when we were in Denver, we went down to Podcast Movement. And listen, the rest of the country always says that, you know, Toronto is the center of the universe and it's very easy to feel that way when you work in media in Canada. Uh, but then, you know, here you are, you need to sort of leave that bubble and you're now in a global playground. Tell me about Podcast Movement. What did you learn there?

Sarah Burke  5:08  
That was like one of the most eye opening points in podcasting for me, I'm so glad that you like said, Hey, you should really think of going to that this year, you see all the different perspectives, right? Like what I used to think of as one perspective, like podcasting being very, you know, call it one dimensional, like putting audio out, all you really need is the host in the editing. Now, I can almost see it as the different departments of what we would compare to a radio station, right? There's your monetization and your metrics, there is Chase production there is, you know, what's your what's your marketing strategy? Like there's so many things to consider. And at Podcast Movement, you could participate in learnings about all those different things and come up with your kind of best, the way that it'll be best for you to do it as a podcaster. That's another thing. There's no wrong answer. There's many different ways to podcast. So finding out what works best for you is a huge part of it, too. Don't you agree?

Matt Cundill  6:06  
I do. Which leads me to the next question, which is, what have you needed to unlearn from radio in order to do the podcast thing?

Sarah Burke  6:16  
Ah, well, I mean, I always think about cat and Nat, and what they've been doing, like we learned that throwing together a podcast, in a vehicle, although not the best audio experience, can still build a great audience. And I know you and I are nerds where we want our audio to be the best. But I think one thing I unlearned was the power of a loyal audience, and an audience that is not determined by results that come in, in a ratings book. You know, you have real time stats, when you when you want to look at how your latest episode did or your monthly downloads or audience engagement consumption rates, like you can look it all up in two seconds. And you don't have to answer to anyone to do that you have your data, cheap

Matt Cundill  7:03  
and very amiable to change, by the way, because you can hear it in the women in media podcast, you started off, I'm going to be interviewing a lot of women in media, then some purpose begins to come into it. And I think a lot of that had to do with timing. So just for fun, I went and checked your biggest episodes of your podcast since you started. Do you know which ones they are?

Sarah Burke  7:22  
I'm gonna guess that Jen Valentine is still pretty up there. Number one, and number three. Okay, so who's in between Josie di Maureen Holloway, oh, Maureen and Wendy, I had them together, there

Matt Cundill  7:34  
is something that sort of strings those three together. And that's who they worked with, at q1 oh seven. And the store. Now I'm going to talk about this, because these are the big downloads. And this is the big issue. And you know, your podcast found a lot of purpose, especially, you know, bringing Jen Valentine on and others to tell their stories of women in media. And here you are, you're about to pivot and start a network in that thing. So how much is the podcast and what you've talked about in that podcast lead to the network?

Sarah Burke  8:05  
Well, they literally lead to one another, like they have back and forth communication, really, because I think that, you know, I will never stop wanting to allow women to tell their stories. But now there's a lot of different types of women telling their stories, and the definition of media has changed a lot. I think that's a big part of this. What I originally considered my guest, call it wishlist was TV sports, radio at the beginning. Now, I sort of think anyone who has a public profile doing something, whether it's real estate, or cannabis education, you can be on the women media podcast to talk about your experience in the spotlight as a woman in your own spotlight. So I've branched out to thinking about how we define media. And that's where, you know, I'll continue to tell those stories on my podcast. But what's even more exciting, though, is that there are a lot of women who want to tell their own stories, and other women's stories. And that's where we're going to grow all together in a little community. I don't think it's gonna be very little, to be honest. But

Matt Cundill  9:15  
so what's it gonna take to become part of the network? What are you looking for? Because I know people are sitting here going, Oh, I have to apply for that.

Sarah Burke  9:24  
This is not like me, auditioning for my arts, public school situation where you know, and then if you don't get cast in the school play, it's not like that. There's different tiers. And you know, for some people, it's just going to be, hey, I want to understand my data more. And I want to be hosted in a place with all of these people who I respect and admire and participate in community and resource sharing with them. So like the lowest here is just about hosting. A lot of people will have their own producer or producer themselves like even when you and I first talked, I was like I don't need you producing I Want to produce myself? And that's something to consider, especially about women in this day and age, a lot of self starters are out there who want to do their own things and be close to their own content that way. So, I mean, consistency is a lesson that I've really learned a lot about as both a podcaster and a producer in the last few years, I think you and I would share that lesson. Consistency is probably going to be the biggest thing like, and my boss at Sirius XM, back when I was with the company used to say, like, oh, everyone wants to start a podcast, everyone wants to start a radio show. But after week one, like will you actually do it every week. And the same thing applies here. Like, if you have an idea, and you've been talking to someone about your idea for a podcast for three years, and you haven't started it yet, that's going to be a red flag for me. You know, I'm going to ask you all those questions before I consider working with you. Because what I want is for my creators to be consistent so that they can succeed. So the term

Matt Cundill  10:58  
network brings up a lot of things, because there's lots of podcast networks out there. But what does it mean to be a part of a network with you.

Sarah Burke  11:07  
So in the resource sharing space, and community space, I think, you know, a community of people that you can share guest appearances with, depending on the podcast, you're looking for someone based on our network, we can probably find you someone through, you know, word of mouth, and those networks that we already have, like as individuals, right. So that's one part of it. And then monetization, you know, being able to play in the female space, I have one Creator on my network, I'm very inspired by her story. And we can talk about that after because she's telling a story about taking control of your life after domestic abuse. But she's part of the team that brought DSW to Canada. And a lot of her work surrounds the idea of the female consumer and how much power they actually have. So

Matt Cundill  12:01  
DSW that's the Shoe Warehouse, right? Yeah, I used to go to Florida shop there. But I kind of liked how I could just sort of like, wander around and sort of touch the shoes. Try them on.

Sarah Burke  12:14  
You kind of sound a little creepy. No. Yeah. The point I'm making though, is that she specializes in the female consumer, and branding and marketing to this person, call it your target demo if we were talking about radio, or podcasting, but what's been really interesting in thinking about how I'm going to monetize with this network is, all these creators have one thing in common, they're coming from a certain mindset about being a woman in traditionally male dominated spaces. And, you know, the spending power is usually women. So let's take advantage, right, I think the opportunities are endless. The podcast gaming, Canada is still in a very amateur state, I think you would agree. But I think you know, in a few years from now, it's gonna be really interesting. Yeah,

Matt Cundill  13:02  
Canada is smaller, it's 1/10, the size the US it's the same size as California, it can be a little bit more conservative in the ad buying sense. We've seen our programmatic ads, and our programmatic ads are very busy for anybody who downloads is in the US and not so much if you download it and candidates a little bit quieter. I get the affidavit reports on some podcasts that only get like 20% us listening, but they're getting 80% of the programmatic revenue. So that's kind of the disparity that that's going on. In Canada. There's it's just simply scale. But if somebody has a podcast, it doesn't matter. I mean, what country in the world there and you're willing to bring him on?

Sarah Burke  13:41  
And because of how immature the industry is here right now, I think it's it's an opportunity to experiment to take risks to see where things go, because you know, we have time to learn the best practices and the things that are going to work and the things that are going to be so shitty that we never want to do them again. So for example, right now, you know, I've been on my podcast working with an American organization that is kind of like the sponsorship answer to what I'm doing as a production house. And that's been really cool because they need inventory and I am you know, giving them my podcast just to try it out before I hook them up with some of my clients. But so far it's pretty interesting experience. Let's

Matt Cundill  14:19  
talk about some of your favorite toys namely Well the one you're using right now what are you using for microphone?

Sarah Burke  14:25  
This sir SM seven B. God bless the man who bought it for me who is no longer my partner but I will always thank him for this.

Matt Cundill  14:33  
Hey you want you want that that divorce? Congratulations. Squad caster Riverside.

Sarah Burke  14:40  
Well, we're on squad cast right now and I will say that even my experience joining the studio now you know, how many days has it been about 1000 days since I've joined you on squad cast? And my interest is piqued to play around with this a little more Riverside has been tried and true for me. I feel like I've been growing with that software. So the way that I use it, you know I'm just always like, oh, there's an update on this. Let me try that out. They've got lots of really cool. And I'm sure squad cast has this too. You can maybe speak to some of those things in more detail. But a lot of the new AI tools are really cool. Generating show notes in the back end. It's not that you want to cut and paste them word for word, but like when you're just, you know, end of a long day, and you got to put a podcast episode out to be able to say, what did we talk about again, and use that as your starting point to craft some great show notes. I love that feature of Riverside. I also love the fact that there's always a backup of your recording. So you know, something, I always say don't leave the room yet, because you take a couple of minutes to upload at the end. But there's a local backup recorded on everyone's computer. So if something gets lost or weird warbly sounds happen based on internet connection. There's something local that's going to upload after that you can fix all that. So those are some of my favorites.

Matt Cundill  15:50  
Squad cast has that I think the AI stuff is residing over in descript. So I was going to ask you about editing. So what do you like to edit with Adobe

Sarah Burke  15:59  
Audition? That's probably like a comfort thing. I have not ever done an edit with AI. Although Riverside does have that option to like clean up arms and spaces and pauses and all that. I like the human touch on editing. I feel like you're the same.

Matt Cundill  16:16  
I am I was just going to ask you though you kind of killed my question. I was gonna say Are you like one of those snobs? Who wants to like, listen to it and use the audio? And the answer is yes. And I think that's totally fine. Yeah,

Sarah Burke  16:26  
like, Could I be saving a touch more time probably. But here's another thing. And I don't know if you're like this with editing, I feel like people listen to podcasts while they're doing doing something they're on a walk, they're cooking their you know, whatever it is. So because of that, if you want to let go a little bit over every little detail, a great way to edit is just to listen as you're doing something and then when something catches your ear that you're like, Oh, I gotta fix that. That's when you go back to the recording and take out whatever you want, then continue listening. So it's almost like you're listening, kind of passively. But as the audience word

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Matt Cundill  17:35  
launched with a splash. Tell me who are some of the podcasters that you're working with in the network. Okay.

Sarah Burke  17:45  
I have not processed this yet. You just got verklempt. So a few weeks ago, some layoffs happened at Bell Media. And this forced a creator that I've been working with as a producer, and a co host for a year and a half to make a decision about their content, and loyalty to the person that they had worked with for more years than the my one and a half. And that person is Jen Arden. And the co host is Caitlin green. And they are now part of my network. And I'm I am blown away at the decision that Jen made to support her friend and colleague, but also that she trusts me enough with her content to know that this will be a good move for her as an independent creator. So to start that, like what an honor, I don't even know what to say about that. I can't believe it. I cannot believe it.

Matt Cundill  18:43  
So can you explain to those who might know about the importance of Jann Arden, a household name in Canada?

Sarah Burke  18:50  
You're right. And it's funny. I'm teaching podcasting at Western right now. Podcasting course. And you know, when I did guest speaking for the class, you had to pass the prerequisite to get into mind also to like, market the course a little bit because it's brand new. I'm like, show of hands. Who's heard of jannard in the room? It's a bunch of you know, I think they're 1920 around there. Gen Z. Yeah. And I don't think anyone knew who she wasn't. I was like, okay, okay, we're gonna call her daddy, all the hands go up. So that was really telling very early on in my teaching journey. But anyway, so to you know, any Americans that might be listening generation is a household name in Canada. She is an iconic musician, huge hits from the 90s. She's also done television shows screenwriting, and she does some comedy too. And she's still tours. She's actually just on a tour with Rick Mercer for spring in Canada, where they're talking about all the things that they've done before. So Jan is like a creator that I'm very proud to be connected with in this way.

Matt Cundill  19:52  
And another podcast that you're working with, and I know this because it's disappeared from my stack. Sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah, you and I were working on it together for the last eight or nine months. And it's one that is called trust me. I'm a decorator.

Sarah Burke  20:07  
Yes. With Debbie Travis and Tommy Smyth. And yeah, just for people who are like, Wait, what is going on with Matt and Sarah here and their business? So Matt is the podcast guy in Canada, as far as I'm concerned? You know, you've got a lot of like, big call it corporate podcast situations or branded content networks. I think when we're just talking about independent podcasting, Matt is the guy. So kudos, first of all, for all your knowledge, first of all of the industry, but also, you know, your education piece, I think you've been really educating a lot of creators in the space, including me for what's to come with podcasting in Canada. So we worked on a couple of podcasts together over the last year, Donna marrows through the fire, was another one. And, you know, through Jan, and her manager, Chris, who manages Tommy Smith, I ended up having a conversation with Debbie and Tommy about their podcast. And at that point, I didn't have my network. I don't even think I realized I was going to do this nine months ago. It was a seed that was planted, but it hadn't really like sprouted yet.

Matt Cundill  21:11  
Well, what's the moment when you thought, yeah, I could do this because there's always one. And usually, it's like over a drink in a bar. Or maybe it's at a conference, or maybe, like, where's the moment you say, Okay, I'm gonna do this.

Sarah Burke  21:23  
It must have been in July or August before Podcast Movement, because I remember saying the words out loud at Podcast Movement, the conference we went to in Denver for the first time. Hi, I'm Sarah Burke, and I'm starting a women's podcasting network in Canada. And then after I said it out loud. I was like, Oh, shit. Yeah, I got to do it. Now I have to do it. After

Matt Cundill  21:43  
the two free drinks. That happy hour. Off you go.

Sarah Burke  21:47  
The one I liked. The party I liked was tacos anyway. So yeah, Debbie and Tommy, two television personalities who they have a lot of other things going on in their lives. And they have built lots in their careers. But together they come together to do this podcast, little tongue in cheek with the title because they do talk decorating, but rarely. It's food, travel, life, advice, relationships, all those things, just to name another few creators on the network. Jessica Morehouse, the more money podcast. She's a monster podcast. Without me the fact that she joined the network. I'm again honored. And Jessica is talking about, you know, financial literacy. And she especially loves educating women in the space to not be intimidated by financial conversations. We've got beyond the sale, which is real estate podcast hosted by Cynthia ossos. And again, there's a piece there where she's very interested in speaking to women who have fulfilling careers as well as personalized. She's, you know, a mom of three, and the whole balancing act around that in a very, like, you know, how much work goes into real estate and it's kind of weird hours around the clock, all that kind of stuff. And who am I missing that? You've seen my back end? That sounds weird.

Matt Cundill  23:01  
I think you have a couple other you were talking to you, but it wasn't quite sure if you'd like sign them. So I didn't want to say anything at this point. You've named all the ones that are currently residing on your on

Sarah Burke  23:10  
the network. Yeah. Oh, okay. So ladies take control that is hosted by Katie Maris. So she has just come out of four years of abuse in so many ways. Her story is very inspiring. She's the DSW gal that we were talking about. Carlin Kosta, who is a psychotherapist, a sexologist, and a cannabis educator. She's also certified for like plant medicines in like all sorts of psychotherapy situations. Her podcast revolves around body image and neuro divergence. She has ADHD. And she recently reversed a weight loss surgery from when she was a young girl that has led to her and her diagnosis. And as a psychotherapist, she's also pretty funny. So I'm very excited about that podcast. And then I have Lisa limeroad, who is the president of RSG International. It's a road safety and infrastructure company. And, you know, when my colleague first approached me about this podcast, I was like, What is this podcast going to be about? Well, it's women in leadership, but talk about playing in a male dominated space. Lisa is a character and oh my goodness, like the first thing she says on her podcast when I'm like, recording with her is My name is not on the building. So why the fuck am I here? Like, okay, so anyway, all these women do have, you know, a thread in common, which I look for, which is amplifying women's voices and diversity and being very open minded to seeing new perspectives, community, all those things. So

Matt Cundill  24:52  
one of the best pieces of advice that I've ever gotten my whole life came from Maddie Stott at jam street media. He actually did Talk in 2021 in Nashville at Podcast Movement saying why you should not start a podcast network. And I blew right past that. And went right to Podcast Network. And I do I work with a lot of podcasts. A lot of them don't have a lot to do with each other. But how many know, Matt, there's 60 some odd podcasts that I work with. Okay, you Geez. Yeah. But again, I mean, some of them could have a little bit of a sports taken, some of them could have a lot of its business, a lot of it is just, you know, there's one real estate in there as well. Wellness, health, lots of wellness and health, you know, little different stacks. And the only reason I wanted to do a network was so that I could, you know, put promos in between, you know, all the health and wellness and all the sports and pair it all together so that we could promote Yeah, cross promotion, and to possibly, you know, get some programmatic money and some advertising options for creators. But this is a little different for you, because I could put women in media. Yeah, I get that I know exactly what that is. So here, you're wondering in through year one, what do you think's going to happen after the first year? Or what expectation might you have? Honestly,

Sarah Burke  26:08  
like, I just incorporated my business. So I'm like, I'm scared shitless right now, if I'm being honest, but I know that the people that I work with, trust me, and the people that I've chosen to work with, I trust them. So that is what's going to carry it forward. You know, if the network grows amazing, monetization wise, you understood what I was saying about taking risks right now, like try something if it doesn't work, well, you're not making money anyway. So you know, whatever. And then you find a better way. I've come from working on a podcast, like Jan's which was associated with Bell Media, for example, and the way that they do things, and then I've gotten knowledge from how you do things. And just putting all those experiences together sort of tells me that there is a better way to do some things that over here weren't working and are working over here. And that's why you're one I'm, I'm gonna give myself grace to take a bunch of risks. I think that's what it's about. Because you know, if anything is going to carry this forward, it will be the creators.

Matt Cundill  27:13  
When i Master look ahead, one year, I think to myself, Okay, we can make whatever predictions we want. But there's a lot in podcasts we don't control. So a good example, is the Apple podcasts. i Oh, yeah. Where it's kind of like, yeah, we've changed the way we're passing out the podcasts, and you're all getting 20% Less downloads.

Sarah Burke  27:33  
Well, maybe you want to explain that quickly, in case someone's listening who has no idea what the hell you're talking about? Because yeah,

Matt Cundill  27:38  
so very simply, if you were listening to podcasts on

Sarah Burke  27:43  
Apple, the little purple podcast, if you were using the purple app,

Matt Cundill  27:48  
what used to happen is, let's say you didn't listen to any of the last four episodes, Apple would pause that and stop downloading the show. No problem as of yet. But what would happen is when you came back said, oh, yeah, I do want to listen to that show again. And then you say, follow, what it would do is it would download the entire back catalogue that you missed. So that's like 1718 20, I don't know how long you were away. And I don't know how many episodes that would be. But a lot of downloads would just go to your phone, and you probably didn't listen to them. And by the way, ads would also be delivered. And that's not helpful. So there were some companies writing checks back to to advertisers in that period. So anyhow, Apple went and issued a correction. And from that people are seeing about 20 to 30%, less downloads, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on how big your back catalogue is, and how often you're releasing episodes. So I mentioned that because when you make a prediction, this is what's going to happen this year, I'm going to promise you this many downloads, I'm going to promise you this much money. And I think the year is gonna go like this. It could be one little change that somebody makes along the way to really change it. So I asked you a prediction question. But in general, don't make too many predictions. But I did want to hear what you had to say. But I do feel sometimes it's like, hey, let's start a fire and see if we can't burn the whole thing down to the meantime.

Sarah Burke  29:12  
Well, another great example of something that we have no control over, but it's such a hot topic is YouTube, like what will YouTube as a company do in the next two years? Like? Who knows?

Matt Cundill  29:23  
That's a good question. So you do a lot of audio. So how do you plan to manage video for your clients?

Sarah Burke  29:30  
So a lot of them have specific requests to receive the video and do their own thing with it. You know, for example, like Cynthia has a great team, this fellow Owen, who works for a company called uplift studios, his own company. So they're doing all the production on the video and I'm like, great, because I can't do that for eight people. It's enough for me to like keep up with that on my own podcast. You know, the way we're recording right now in squad cast. The way that I think video works is the easiest way that you can make it work. So right now, personally, when I'm going into a recording, I'm treating it like a live environment and putting up the file cleaning up just the beginning and the tail at the end. And if I marked a timestamp, where it was like, gotta take that out that was inappropriate, or that was stupid, or whatever it is, or the guest was uncomfortable with something they said. Other than that, it's going up on edited. And I think one thing that you and I run into all the time is this idea that the audio edit can be the same as the video edit, I almost don't even want to go down that rabbit hole right now. But you have so much more opportunity to make great audio, if you're keeping up with the right workflow. So that's, I think, the important part. Whereas like with video, because it's great to have it, but it's an audio first format, your audio has got to be great. And if you have the video, even if you're not doing like the same intricate editing as audio, at least there is some video. That's the way I look at it. Sarah,

Matt Cundill  31:00  
thanks so much for joining me on the podcast. But most of all, congratulations on the launch of the new network.

Sarah Burke  31:05  
Was this because you were bored. You're just cutting me off at the video situation. We gotta go now. I was like, wow, work on your transition. Thank you for having me. Thank you for educating me and most of this industry in Canada, and doing what you do. Thanks.

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  31:24  
The sound off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill. Produced by Evan Sieminski, edited by Chloe multiplane. Social media by Aiden glassy, another great creation from the sound off media company there's always more at sound off podcast.com