Are all protected areas in the ocean equal? A study on the bonus species protection

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How important are protected areas?

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That's what we're gonna

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talk about on today's episode

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of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast,

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because there's been a

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new study that came out

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talking about certain protected areas

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that are better than others,

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that have unintended positive impacts

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on a specific area that's protected

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that is beyond what is protected for.

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We're gonna talk about

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all this on this episode

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of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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(upbeat music)

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Hey everybody, welcome back

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to another exciting episode

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of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin,

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and this is the

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podcast where you find out

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what's happening with the ocean,

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how you can speak up for the ocean,

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and what you can do to

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live for a better ocean

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by taking action.

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And on today's episode,

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we're gonna be talking

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about protected areas,

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one of my favorite topics,

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because if you don't know me by now,

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I have a master's in

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looking at marine protected areas

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on the East Coast of Nova Scotia,

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which is where this

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study kind of talks about,

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not necessarily Nova Scotia,

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but in the Gulf of St.

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Lawrence, in the St. Lawrence area.

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We looked at this study called

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Assessing Indirect Biodiversity

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Conservation Benefits

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of Fisheries Closures in the

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Gulf of St. Lawrence, Canada,

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talks about protected areas

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and how some protected areas

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have an alternative benefit

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to them, even though it

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wasn't the primary role

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that they were protected for.

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We're gonna talk all

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about protected areas,

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not to worry, just wanna introduce that.

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But if you're new to ocean conservation

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and you wanna know how to

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protect the ocean further,

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you can see more of these episodes

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on your favorite podcast app.

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If you're listening

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to this or on YouTube,

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if you wanna listen to this,

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you can just go down onto this channel

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and you'll be able to

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see all the other episodes,

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or you can go over to SpeakUpForBlue.com,

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where we have all the things that are

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pertaining to the ocean,

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and you can just go

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over SpeakUpForBlue.com.

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And if you want a

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newsletter with all ocean news,

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audio podcast out for you,

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all you have to do is go to

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Friday, 8 a.m. Eastern.

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All right, let's get into the episode.

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Look, protected areas are important.

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We know that protected areas

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protect and keep biodiversity

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and fisheries intact.

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That's what it's best for.

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And what it is

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essentially is an area in the ocean

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that has these sort of translucent

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imaginary boundaries

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because there's nothing physical

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that's stopping people from being there,

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but it's a designated area that takes

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away a specific thing.

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So a specific

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normally extractive process.

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So you can't drill oil and gas.

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You can't use fishery.

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You can't fish in the area,

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commercial or recreational.

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Sometimes people can't go there for

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recreational purposes.

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And there's some that are Marine reserves

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where you can't do anything at all.

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Not even scientific research.

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There are Marine protected

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areas all over the world.

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And there are different definitions on

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specific protected areas.

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The ones that we're going to be talking

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about today are called other effective

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area based conservation

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measures, also known as OECMs.

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Look, scientists, we love our acronyms.

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So this one is OECMs.

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You're going to notice as

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an other protected area.

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It's an effective area

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based conservation measure.

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Okay. But we have also

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Marine protected areas, MPAs.

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And the biggest difference between those

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is OECMs are areas that achieve

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conservation outcomes

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as a byproduct of other

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management objectives.

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So if the original management objective

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was fisheries closures,

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well then biodiversity is protected

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because of those fisheries closures.

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And we're going to talk

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about that on today's episode,

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because that's the subject really that

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we're talking about.

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MPAs are legally designated to protect

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Marine biodiversity and

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ecosystems as a primary goal.

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So right off the bat,

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that's what they're doing.

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Okay. The main purpose of an OECM is not

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necessarily to

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establish for conservation,

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but provide incidental

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biodiversity protection.

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So they could be a fisheries closure or

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it could be an indigenous managed area.

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Okay. Or it could be something that's

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culturally significant,

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like a boat that sank a while ago and is

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historically important to people.

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For MPAs, the main purpose is

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specifically created to protect marine

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habitats, species and ecosystems under

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formal conservation laws.

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These are MPAs, you cannot go in them

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like OECMs, other effective area based

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conservation measures.

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These are for other purposes, but they

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have a byproduct impact,

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which is a great impact.

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Okay. So let's look at this study.

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This is a great study is

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on PLS01, which we love.

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You can say plus one.

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I'd say PLS01.

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This is one of the

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journals that is open access.

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It's available to everybody.

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And what this article on PLS01 did was

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how these OECMs contribute to

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biodiversity conservation beyond their

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primary objective of

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protecting target areas.

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The study focuses 11 OECMs in the Gulf of

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St. Lawrence, Canada, and assesses their

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indirect benefits to commercial and

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ecologically important species.

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So here's some of the

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key points and findings.

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So the background on OECMs and

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conservation goals is that this is where

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the OECMs are areas where biodiversity

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conservation occurs as a byproduct.

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Right. We talked about this of management

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activities rather than the primary

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objective, which is like a marine

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protected area or things like that.

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The study examines whether OECMs

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originally established for fisheries

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management also provide indirect benefits

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by protecting critical habitats for other

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species, therefore

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maintaining biodiversity.

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So the Gulf of St. Lawrence is a highly

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productive marine ecosystem with

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important commercial fisheries and making

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a relevant area for this assessment.

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So here's what they looked at.

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They looked at a spatial

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analysis overlap, right?

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So they looked at how to evaluate whether

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these OECMs coincided with important

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habitats such as spawning or juvenile

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habitats of Atlantic halibut, Greenland

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halibut and redfish.

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Three key fish species

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that are in these areas.

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The study used species distribution

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models and habitat suitability maps to

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determine if closures overlapped with

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essential fish habitat.

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So this is really important because when

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you have these fisheries management

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areas, these are areas that they close

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down for certain times of the year or all

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year round, depending on the OECM.

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And they are there to protect these fish.

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That's what they're there to

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do for that fishing purpose.

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So it could be for Atlantic halibut,

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Greenland halibut and redfish or just one

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of those species or

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just two of those species.

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It depends on the area.

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There's 11 of them.

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They all have different criteria.

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Now, if there are special areas for other

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species beyond the three or even for

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others, so say that one area is protected

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for Atlantic halibut, but there are

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Greenland halibut there in the area

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that's a spawning area or juvenile

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habitat that's within those boundaries

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that will also be protected.

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Almost like an umbrella species that we

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talk about in conservation.

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So when you have an umbrella species like

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a whale, you protect that whale and you

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protect everything that's under that

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whale, all the habitat that's below that.

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Well, you're doing the same thing.

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You have this fisheries management

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closure in this specific area and

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everything that's found underneath is a

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bonus protection, right?

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So if it's a spawning area, it's bonus.

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If it's an overlapping juvenile habitat

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area, that's bonus too, because you're

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protecting the other species that are in

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the area and that's always helpful.

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So that's what we're talking about here

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when we talk about what's overlapped with

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this potential areas, the OECMs.

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That's a big thing.

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So the main find is eight out of the 11

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OECMs overlapped with

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potential spawning habitats.

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How do they know this?

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I talked about it

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earlier, habitat suitability map.

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So what we're looking at is what is good

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for like we have all these three species.

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What do they like?

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What type of habitats do they like?

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We kind of have these

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criteria that we look at.

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We look at depth.

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We look at substrate.

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We look at salinity.

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We look at temperature.

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And if those vary within the Gulf of

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Mexico, which they usually do, then we

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look at these special

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areas and what is found there.

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And we just correlate those together.

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And if those species are found there over

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and over and over again, year after year

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after year, then we

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say, Hey, you know what?

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They may like this area so much that if

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there's another area around there, that

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might be another important area.

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So some of these suitability maps were

284
00:07:41,958 --> 00:07:44,708
used to identify specific areas that may

285
00:07:44,708 --> 00:07:46,291
be good for another species.

286
00:07:46,458 --> 00:07:47,458
And that's how these

287
00:07:47,458 --> 00:07:48,750
suitability maps are used.

288
00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:49,083
Okay.

289
00:07:49,083 --> 00:07:51,333
So the findings suggest that despite

290
00:07:51,333 --> 00:07:52,666
their original purpose, which is

291
00:07:52,666 --> 00:07:54,375
protecting certain species like snow

292
00:07:54,375 --> 00:07:56,583
crab, so not even Atlantic halibut,

293
00:07:56,583 --> 00:07:59,416
Greenland halibut or redfish, the OECMs

294
00:07:59,416 --> 00:08:01,958
may have unintended conservation benefits

295
00:08:01,958 --> 00:08:03,666
for other marine species.

296
00:08:03,958 --> 00:08:05,416
The study highlights the value of

297
00:08:05,416 --> 00:08:07,166
integrating fisheries management with

298
00:08:07,166 --> 00:08:09,000
conservation objectives, demonstrating

299
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,708
that a well-placed fisheries closure can

300
00:08:11,708 --> 00:08:12,666
contribute to a broader

301
00:08:12,666 --> 00:08:13,916
biodiversity protection.

302
00:08:14,416 --> 00:08:15,916
And the authors recommend considering

303
00:08:15,916 --> 00:08:18,000
using indirect conservation benefits when

304
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:18,833
evaluating these

305
00:08:18,833 --> 00:08:20,583
effectiveness of the OECM.

306
00:08:20,583 --> 00:08:22,666
So this is what happens is we always want

307
00:08:22,666 --> 00:08:23,708
marine protected areas

308
00:08:23,708 --> 00:08:25,208
because those are legally binding.

309
00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:26,625
For Canada, especially when we talk about

310
00:08:26,625 --> 00:08:28,333
the Gulf of St. Lawrence, this is a Gulf

311
00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:30,500
that is enshrined in Canadian waters.

312
00:08:31,041 --> 00:08:31,791
And so we want to make

313
00:08:31,791 --> 00:08:33,000
sure that we protect these.

314
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:33,916
So marine protected areas

315
00:08:33,916 --> 00:08:34,875
are probably your benefit.

316
00:08:35,125 --> 00:08:36,791
But then you have OECMs.

317
00:08:36,791 --> 00:08:38,500
These other protected areas that have

318
00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:40,833
unintended impacts, like positive impacts

319
00:08:40,833 --> 00:08:42,500
on other species, there may not be

320
00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:43,958
completely legally binding,

321
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,416
but they're important because if you

322
00:08:45,416 --> 00:08:46,958
protect them from fisheries, you're

323
00:08:46,958 --> 00:08:48,375
probably protecting whatever habitat

324
00:08:48,375 --> 00:08:49,416
that's under there, whether it's a

325
00:08:49,416 --> 00:08:51,083
spawning habitat or something else.

326
00:08:51,541 --> 00:08:53,333
So having these in your conservation

327
00:08:53,333 --> 00:08:54,500
strategy might be best.

328
00:08:54,750 --> 00:08:56,708
You may not be able to get an MPA status,

329
00:08:57,041 --> 00:09:00,458
but you could get an OECM status and then

330
00:09:00,458 --> 00:09:01,916
protect everything that's underneath

331
00:09:01,916 --> 00:09:03,541
that, which may even

332
00:09:03,541 --> 00:09:04,916
say, hey, you know what?

333
00:09:04,916 --> 00:09:07,000
We should make these OECMs even bigger

334
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,208
because we can include more habitats that

335
00:09:09,208 --> 00:09:09,875
we didn't know that

336
00:09:09,875 --> 00:09:10,625
were there beforehand.

337
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,041
So when you go into these OECMs, you're

338
00:09:13,041 --> 00:09:14,125
like, this is a fisheries closure.

339
00:09:14,583 --> 00:09:16,125
What else can we protect under here?

340
00:09:16,416 --> 00:09:18,166
How can we design these boundaries that

341
00:09:18,166 --> 00:09:19,625
will actually protect everything?

342
00:09:19,875 --> 00:09:21,833
And when you protect biodiversity, it's

343
00:09:21,833 --> 00:09:23,291
really important because biodiversity

344
00:09:23,291 --> 00:09:25,125
means stability of the

345
00:09:25,125 --> 00:09:26,791
ocean in that particular area.

346
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,166
If you don't have high biodiversity, you

347
00:09:29,166 --> 00:09:30,458
don't have great stability.

348
00:09:30,791 --> 00:09:32,125
And that can change a system that can

349
00:09:32,125 --> 00:09:33,583
flip a system into something that's

350
00:09:33,583 --> 00:09:35,541
different that can affect fisheries, that

351
00:09:35,541 --> 00:09:37,416
can affect tourism, that can affect just

352
00:09:37,416 --> 00:09:39,583
the overall health of the ocean and the

353
00:09:39,583 --> 00:09:40,666
quality of the ocean.

354
00:09:40,708 --> 00:09:42,250
So for instance, if you think of a coral

355
00:09:42,250 --> 00:09:45,041
reef, if you lose a lot of algae eating

356
00:09:45,041 --> 00:09:47,333
fish that keep algae off the corals, then

357
00:09:47,333 --> 00:09:49,833
you can lose a lot of those corals based

358
00:09:49,833 --> 00:09:52,083
on algae growth and increased sunlight,

359
00:09:52,083 --> 00:09:53,291
increased sea surface temperature.

360
00:09:53,708 --> 00:09:54,875
And then the diversity is going to

361
00:09:54,875 --> 00:09:56,416
decrease because there's not going to be

362
00:09:56,416 --> 00:09:58,583
a coral reef in that area because the

363
00:09:58,583 --> 00:09:59,625
fish just disappear.

364
00:10:00,125 --> 00:10:02,125
The coral reefs can't stop the algae from

365
00:10:02,125 --> 00:10:03,541
overgrowing and all the other fish that

366
00:10:03,541 --> 00:10:06,000
depend on these corals to live and for

367
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,166
hiding spots and everything, they just

368
00:10:07,166 --> 00:10:08,708
don't have anything to be there for.

369
00:10:08,750 --> 00:10:10,500
So you get eaten or they leave or they

370
00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:11,791
die off and nothing these

371
00:10:11,791 --> 00:10:13,083
species don't want to be there.

372
00:10:13,083 --> 00:10:15,583
So you get this degradation of a habitat.

373
00:10:15,583 --> 00:10:16,541
So I'm talking about the

374
00:10:16,541 --> 00:10:18,375
health of an actual habitat.

375
00:10:18,666 --> 00:10:20,875
So what we wanted to look at is how can

376
00:10:20,875 --> 00:10:22,333
we put this into marine

377
00:10:22,333 --> 00:10:23,750
conservation and policies?

378
00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:25,291
This study supports the growing

379
00:10:25,291 --> 00:10:27,541
recognition that OECMs are an important

380
00:10:27,541 --> 00:10:29,375
conservation tool that can complement

381
00:10:29,375 --> 00:10:30,666
marine protected areas.

382
00:10:30,666 --> 00:10:31,583
They don't always have to

383
00:10:31,583 --> 00:10:32,625
be marine protected areas.

384
00:10:32,625 --> 00:10:33,666
To get a marine protected area

385
00:10:33,666 --> 00:10:35,958
established in Canada or even the world,

386
00:10:35,958 --> 00:10:37,041
it is very difficult.

387
00:10:37,083 --> 00:10:38,208
It takes a long time.

388
00:10:38,208 --> 00:10:40,250
It has to go through a specific process.

389
00:10:40,791 --> 00:10:42,833
It could be very, very long before you

390
00:10:42,833 --> 00:10:44,208
can get an MPA status.

391
00:10:44,666 --> 00:10:46,208
And sometimes you may not be able to get

392
00:10:46,208 --> 00:10:47,625
it in time to protect what

393
00:10:47,625 --> 00:10:48,458
you're trying to protect.

394
00:10:48,916 --> 00:10:50,708
It also suggests that OECM should be

395
00:10:50,708 --> 00:10:51,708
formally recognized in

396
00:10:51,708 --> 00:10:52,750
conservation strategies.

397
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,000
I think this is something that's not

398
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,333
taking as seriously as we hope and as

399
00:10:56,333 --> 00:10:57,500
they can contribute to the international

400
00:10:57,500 --> 00:10:59,500
biodiversity targets such as a convention

401
00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:00,250
of biological

402
00:11:00,250 --> 00:11:02,666
diversity's 30 by 30 target.

403
00:11:02,666 --> 00:11:04,125
Now, here's where we have to be careful.

404
00:11:04,416 --> 00:11:06,375
We want MPAs because MPAs under the

405
00:11:06,375 --> 00:11:07,333
definition have no

406
00:11:07,333 --> 00:11:09,583
extractive processes in the MPA.

407
00:11:09,958 --> 00:11:11,500
OECMs have something different.

408
00:11:11,916 --> 00:11:13,125
They may be closed for fisheries

409
00:11:13,125 --> 00:11:14,250
management, but they may be

410
00:11:14,250 --> 00:11:16,083
open to oil and gas drilling.

411
00:11:16,083 --> 00:11:17,333
We don't know or mining.

412
00:11:17,666 --> 00:11:19,041
We have no idea, right?

413
00:11:19,041 --> 00:11:20,708
So there can be other things

414
00:11:20,708 --> 00:11:22,458
that happen within that area.

415
00:11:22,916 --> 00:11:25,333
But an MPA under the definition, IUCN

416
00:11:25,333 --> 00:11:26,875
definition is like, don't touch.

417
00:11:27,250 --> 00:11:27,708
That's it.

418
00:11:27,958 --> 00:11:29,541
We are not touching it at all.

419
00:11:29,541 --> 00:11:30,458
Nobody can do anything.

420
00:11:30,458 --> 00:11:31,500
Nothing extractive.

421
00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:32,333
Don't even go in there.

422
00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:34,666
So we have to be careful when we start

423
00:11:34,666 --> 00:11:36,291
proposing that these OECMs be a part of

424
00:11:36,291 --> 00:11:38,750
the strategy because this is where we

425
00:11:38,750 --> 00:11:40,833
were at before the MPA strategy used to

426
00:11:40,833 --> 00:11:42,125
be that you can still drill

427
00:11:42,125 --> 00:11:43,833
for oil if they so desired.

428
00:11:43,833 --> 00:11:45,166
If the companies that had those leases so

429
00:11:45,166 --> 00:11:47,208
desired now that's frowned upon.

430
00:11:47,208 --> 00:11:47,791
You don't do that.

431
00:11:47,791 --> 00:11:49,083
I don't think you can even do that.

432
00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:51,458
When you go to look at OECMs, you can do

433
00:11:51,458 --> 00:11:52,833
other extractive processes, which are

434
00:11:52,833 --> 00:11:55,583
pretty much not be good for that OECM.

435
00:11:55,791 --> 00:11:57,333
So we do have to be careful with that.

436
00:11:57,500 --> 00:11:59,041
But policymakers should adopt a more

437
00:11:59,041 --> 00:12:00,625
holistic approach when assessing

438
00:12:00,625 --> 00:12:01,541
conservation effectiveness.

439
00:12:01,791 --> 00:12:04,041
So not just MPAs, look at OECMs and look

440
00:12:04,041 --> 00:12:05,083
at what else they're protecting,

441
00:12:05,458 --> 00:12:07,416
considering not only direct protections,

442
00:12:07,416 --> 00:12:09,958
but also indirect ecosystem benefits.

443
00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:11,458
Essentially, what we're talking about

444
00:12:11,458 --> 00:12:13,416
here is that fisheries closures within

445
00:12:13,416 --> 00:12:15,625
OECM can have a significant biodiversity

446
00:12:15,625 --> 00:12:18,125
benefits beyond their initial goals,

447
00:12:18,583 --> 00:12:20,666
reinforcing the needs to integrate OECMs

448
00:12:20,666 --> 00:12:22,500
into broader conservation planning.

449
00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:23,500
That's what this study says.

450
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:25,250
I don't completely agree with it, but you

451
00:12:25,250 --> 00:12:26,041
can never go wrong with

452
00:12:26,041 --> 00:12:27,083
another protected area.

453
00:12:27,333 --> 00:12:28,958
It underscores the importance of spatial

454
00:12:28,958 --> 00:12:30,125
planning in marine ecosystems.

455
00:12:30,375 --> 00:12:32,375
Spatial planning essentially is taking a

456
00:12:32,375 --> 00:12:33,416
business plan and

457
00:12:33,416 --> 00:12:34,625
putting it into the ocean.

458
00:12:34,625 --> 00:12:36,375
It's what we do on land all the time.

459
00:12:36,375 --> 00:12:37,416
We have green zones.

460
00:12:37,416 --> 00:12:38,333
We have industrial zones.

461
00:12:38,333 --> 00:12:39,333
We have residential areas.

462
00:12:39,541 --> 00:12:40,750
It's all spatially planned.

463
00:12:41,041 --> 00:12:42,875
We should do that with the ocean with the

464
00:12:42,875 --> 00:12:44,666
amount of different users we have oil and

465
00:12:44,666 --> 00:12:47,041
gas, recreation, commercial fishing and

466
00:12:47,041 --> 00:12:47,666
other commercial like

467
00:12:47,666 --> 00:12:48,500
shipping and so forth.

468
00:12:48,916 --> 00:12:51,708
So many conflicting uses that we need to

469
00:12:51,708 --> 00:12:53,166
plan that all out to make sure that

470
00:12:53,166 --> 00:12:53,875
certain areas are

471
00:12:53,875 --> 00:12:55,333
designated for certain things.

472
00:12:55,333 --> 00:12:56,291
That's what we want to do.

473
00:12:56,291 --> 00:12:57,750
But it's basically that kind of plan.

474
00:12:58,083 --> 00:12:59,625
So it underscores the importance of

475
00:12:59,625 --> 00:13:01,250
spatial planning and marine ecosystems

476
00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:03,333
and the need for adaptive management

477
00:13:03,333 --> 00:13:04,791
approaches that can recognize the

478
00:13:04,791 --> 00:13:05,875
multiple benefits of

479
00:13:05,875 --> 00:13:07,125
area based protections.

480
00:13:07,625 --> 00:13:09,750
Adaptive management is the key to

481
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:10,833
figuring out management

482
00:13:10,833 --> 00:13:12,166
now and in the future.

483
00:13:12,416 --> 00:13:12,958
Adaptive management is

484
00:13:12,958 --> 00:13:14,500
essentially what it sounds like.

485
00:13:14,791 --> 00:13:16,833
You adapt to what happens in that area.

486
00:13:16,833 --> 00:13:18,958
If something changes or the water quality

487
00:13:18,958 --> 00:13:20,500
changes or the sea surface temperature

488
00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:23,166
changes or something else happens, then

489
00:13:23,166 --> 00:13:24,833
you have to adapt to that and you have to

490
00:13:24,833 --> 00:13:27,041
adapt your policies to match what's

491
00:13:27,041 --> 00:13:27,666
happening to a future.

492
00:13:27,791 --> 00:13:28,250
So you have to

493
00:13:28,250 --> 00:13:29,583
effectively manage that area.

494
00:13:29,583 --> 00:13:30,875
So that's essentially what it is.

495
00:13:30,875 --> 00:13:32,666
It's just every year, every five years

496
00:13:32,666 --> 00:13:34,625
you look back and say, what's changed and

497
00:13:34,625 --> 00:13:35,625
do we need to change our

498
00:13:35,625 --> 00:13:37,458
policies in regards to that?

499
00:13:37,458 --> 00:13:38,708
That's essentially the episode.

500
00:13:39,041 --> 00:13:39,875
It's a pretty cool study.

501
00:13:40,166 --> 00:13:41,416
I really like what I read on there.

502
00:13:41,666 --> 00:13:43,166
I'll put the link in the show notes so

503
00:13:43,166 --> 00:13:44,375
you can get access to that.

504
00:13:44,583 --> 00:13:46,000
But if you have any questions or comments

505
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,500
on this, I would love to hear from you.

506
00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:49,625
You can hit me up on Instagram DM me at

507
00:13:49,625 --> 00:13:50,916
how to protect the ocean.

508
00:13:50,916 --> 00:13:52,750
That's at how to protect the ocean.

509
00:13:52,750 --> 00:13:54,166
And don't forget to subscribe and hit

510
00:13:54,166 --> 00:13:55,458
that notification bell if

511
00:13:55,458 --> 00:13:56,375
you're watching this on YouTube.

512
00:13:56,458 --> 00:13:57,666
And if you're not going over, you could

513
00:13:57,666 --> 00:13:58,958
see my pretty little face.

514
00:13:59,208 --> 00:13:59,708
I'm just kidding.

515
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,083
But yeah, you can go there on YouTube.

516
00:14:01,083 --> 00:14:02,750
You can also see the video on Spotify and

517
00:14:02,750 --> 00:14:04,208
listen to the audio on Spotify.

518
00:14:04,625 --> 00:14:05,708
And of course, listen to the audio on

519
00:14:05,708 --> 00:14:06,916
your favorite podcast app.

520
00:14:07,208 --> 00:14:09,000
I want to thank you and don't forget you

521
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,458
can go to speak up for blue.com to get

522
00:14:10,458 --> 00:14:11,333
access to all of that.

523
00:14:11,541 --> 00:14:13,708
The videos, the audio, whatever you need.

524
00:14:13,916 --> 00:14:15,291
Go to speak up from blue.com.

525
00:14:15,583 --> 00:14:16,583
And I want to thank you so much for

526
00:14:16,583 --> 00:14:18,000
joining me on today's episode of the how

527
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,083
to protect the ocean podcast.

528
00:14:19,083 --> 00:14:20,541
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the true

529
00:14:20,541 --> 00:14:21,500
North strong and free.

530
00:14:21,875 --> 00:14:22,458
Have a great day.

531
00:14:22,458 --> 00:14:23,000
We'll talk to you next

532
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:24,041
time and happy conservation.