From Engineer to Ocean Advocate: Carlos Mallo's Journey with Innoceana

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The purpose of this podcast, not just this episode, but this whole

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How to Protect the Ocean podcast and the business that I do is to meet people who are

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doing phenomenal things within the ocean and

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to help conserve the ocean, not only from an environmental perspective,

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but also from a societal approach. It's

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great to see when people are starting new things or doing

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what they can with what they have and being able to really move the

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needle in terms of ocean protection and marine conservation protection,

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as well as engaging local communities. And that is what we're

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going to be discussing today. I want you to be prepared to

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get inspired because I have Carlos Malo,

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who is the founder and CEO of InOceana. It

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is a phenomenal organization that goes

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around the world, works with local communities to say, hey, what do

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you need help with? And we're going to help you do that. He's an engineer

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turned marine conservationist, always sticking to

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his engineering blood and being able to use

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engineering practices and logic to build phenomenal

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things just from conservation center in the Canary Islands or

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building out a eco hub essentially for

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tourism as well as conservation projects and

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coral research projects in Costa Rica. And

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even working with people in Fiji to train

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them on how to do marine conservation from

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a technology point of view and work with them from afar.

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It is phenomenal. And I was truly inspired after this interview. So

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that's what we're going to talk about on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Let's start the show. Hey

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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm

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your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how

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you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean

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by taking action. And today we're going to be talking a lot about action,

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but also community engagement. We're going to be talking about innovation and

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using technology to take on some of the biggest challenges

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in marine conservation. We're going to be talking to Carlos Malo, who is the

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founder and CEO of InOceana. It

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is an innovative oceanic organization that really

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hits home of, hey, do you want to do something about the ocean?

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Then just go ahead and do it. Not through easy

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processes, Carlos describes how hard it was to

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quit an engineering job and going into doing something where

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he was inspired to be through a conservation project they did in Thailand and

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start his own organization to do what he

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is doing now. And when you hear what he's been doing,

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it's absolutely phenomenal. You know, I try to inspire

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people through these interviews. And when you get someone on that

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can inspire just like Carlos can, you run

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with it and you let them do the talking. So I am not going to

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talk any further. Here is the interview with Carlos Malo,

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engineer and the founder and CEO of InOceana.

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Enjoy the interview and I will talk to you after. Hey Carlos, welcome

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to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about

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Thank you. I'm very excited as well. I'm so happy that

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you could be here. First of all, happy new year. It is my first interview

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of the new year, so this is going to be a good way, a great way

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to kick off 2025. We're going to be talking about

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your organization in Oceania, what it's all about,

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how it came to be. You were an engineer and now you're a full-time I'm

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sure you're using your engineer practice and sort of workflows and

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everything like that, but now you're full-time marine conservationist. We're going to talk

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about how that happened. We're going to talk about the building of this

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organization and sort of where it's gone and how far

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off. You're in Costa Rica. You're from Spain. You're traveling all over the

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place. It sounds awesome. It sounds busy. And so we're going to

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find out all about that. But before we do that, Carlos,

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Okay, well, I am, I guess, an ocean

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lover to start. I love the ocean. And I

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am from Spain. As you said, my background is in engineering.

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I was working in different construction projects in Spain and in

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England, actually. And my expertise

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is in harbor, marina, sports construction, so

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it's very related to the ocean, but in a very different field. So I

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actually followed the path of my dad, who was a

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very successful developer in the coastline of Spain. So he built

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a lot of ports. I was born by the ocean while my

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dad was leading construction of ports. So I

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guess that's where the love for the ocean is coming. And yeah,

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and along my career, I decided to change my

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Well, and that's what I wanted to dive deep in. So obviously we know your

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passion for the ocean. Growing up around the ocean, along coastlines,

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very easy to fall in love with that. What

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in particular do you remember from your childhood where you

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Yeah, so I was born in the north of Spain where

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the ocean is pretty rough, there is big waves, but

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in the summer it gets like beautifully calm and I remember

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when I was a kid like just free diving every day and like

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spending a lot of time by the beach and with my friends. Yeah, I

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think that's where I really connected to the ocean. My grandfather

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was the first one who brought me to a clean-up back

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in the 90s when clean-up wasn't even a thing. But I

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was living next to the

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production of a lot of fisheries and there

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was some trash. So we were doing clean-ups and I think that opened my

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eyes that the ocean has a limit. And but again,

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I think it was living by the ocean what actually connected

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Yeah. Yeah. Well, then doing all these cleanups and everything, it kind

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of you kind of see things that you don't expect to normally

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see, some that are good and some that are bad. And depending

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on your age, you may connect with that. I mean, we've all been

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there before. We've all seen like sandals and stuff on the beach that nobody's

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don't belong to anybody. And you're wondering where do those come from? Like, how do they

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I remember specifically this situation that I was fishing in the port,

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and I was so excited because I caught this big fish. And

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again, I was like six years old, so this was 1992 or

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something like that, so I was just a little kid. And

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when we opened the fish at home, it was full of pollution inside, and we're

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like, whoa, whoa, whoa, how is this possible? The fish was alive, and it

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has plastics, and it has a lot of bad things inside of

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Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. Now, you

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grew up as an engineer, though. You always wanted to be an engineer. Your dad was

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an engineer. Was that just like, dad's

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doing it, so this looks pretty cool. You get to build some pretty cool

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things. I feel like engineers have a different way of thinking. It's

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a very logical kind of thinking. Was that sort

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I would also say that I

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wanted to be connected to the ocean in my career. So I wanted to work

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connected to the ocean. And in my country, in Spain, if

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you study marine biologists, you know you are not going to

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have a lot of opportunities to work in the field. And

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you will probably be a teacher, or you will be doing other things. So it

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was also a way to find a path into the ocean

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Okay, so like working more by the ocean, building things.

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Did you ever have that thought process of like,

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I want to be an engineer, but I want to help the ocean and

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not build things that would maybe not like not that your dad wasn't because ports

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are obviously very important. And there's different ways of doing it.

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But with that focus, the love of the ocean, did you ever have that conservation

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I think so. I think, well, conservation, marine conservation specifically

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in my country is not a big thing yet. It's still growing. It's still

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far from, I don't know, in California, everything is

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about marine conservation. That doesn't mean that it's good, but at

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least people are more aware. In Spain, people are just starting

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to connect to the concept of marine conservation. seven

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years ago when I started in Havana in Spain, people were like, but

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what are you doing? What is this about? Nobody really, but I, yeah,

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I think from my personal perspective, like

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when I was working in construction and I understood the impact of

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construction and the environment, that's where I started like connect to, hey,

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there is something wrong here. We are not thinking

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about all of those animals that we are killing, right? And that was kind of the path.

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that drive me straight to starting this.

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So did you work as an engineer beforehand in the construction business?

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So I was, at the end of the university,

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I was kind of mixing, working as an engineer and

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also finishing the university. So I would say I was eight, almost

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10 years in the construction industry. So I have a,

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yeah, it was some time. I have a very vertical career where I

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started as just an intern, but then I was a

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project manager and like I was going up and I was having more responsibilities and

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I was in the front line of understanding what we were

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Yeah. And what's interesting, too, is because I mean, it's

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really difficult to give up or change

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a career when it's so promising, you know, like it's in

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your blood. You know, you know the industry probably inside and out by now

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just because growing up with like watching your dad do his thing and

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then you do your thing for 10 years. You started to get

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that piece where you're like, OK, I can do something else

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here. But what was it that kind of took you

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away from a job that probably would have kept you very

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well employed and pretty comfortable throughout, probably

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Yeah, I think there were a number of situations that it was like

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adding up. So first, I started working in the Canary Islands

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as an engineer, which was very close to the ocean. I remember building

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this highway by the coast and I can see

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all the ocean and I can see the whales from the construction site. And

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So I was so fortunate to be in that. And I was thinking like,

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wow, I want to be closer to the ocean. I want to do something to support those

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animals. And then the biggest, I

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think the biggest trigger for this was I took

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my holidays to go to Thailand. I just went for a whole month.

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I took a whole month of holidays like disconnecting from everything.

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And I meet these people that were doing marine conservation. It was like a marine conservation

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center, a small one in a tiny island in the Gulf of Thailand. And

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then just being with those guys and seeing the energy,

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the passion and seeing the projects and being underwater with them and

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like doing coral restoration and like, I don't know, like

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identifying whale sharks and things like that. It

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was just like, I don't care about my

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stability in construction. I want to find a different path and to do what actually

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makes myself fulfilled. And I think that was the biggest trigger,

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But it's really interesting too, because you say you went for a month. Now, I

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know Europeans, you guys do it differently than here in North America,

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where you guys love to enjoy your vacations and

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you love to explore different parts of the world, which I think is

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fantastic. I think we need to do that more over here. To go away for

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a month allows you to do this type of

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exploration. And we went to Italy for two weeks. We wanted to do all the

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tourist sites. I've never been to Europe. I've been once, but not in

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Italy. And so I'm going around looking at all the Colosseum and

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everything. You don't have time to just relax and

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just be like, oh, this is a cool thing. Let's look up some conservation projects. You're

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there for a month, and you get to explore. You

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don't just fall upon this conservation group. You probably

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looked them up and said, OK, you volunteered for them, right?

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Yeah, so you volunteer with them, which is great. And then it allows you, I mean,

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just to think, it pretty much changed your path. to

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going from, you know, I'm going to be an engineer and I'm going to work around the ocean because

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I want to be around the ocean. I get to see all these pretty cool things. Now

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you're like, OK, I want to help out. So that's

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a big like I talk to a lot of people who are in the process

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or in that process of being inspired. But like, where do

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I go from here? You know, like like I want to help

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here. You're you're in the situation where you're like identifying whale

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sharks and doing coral restoration. Like that's a lot of things to

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do. Did you ever feel overwhelmed of like, where do I

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go from here? Like, how do I obviously

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you're trying to help the ocean, right? Like, that's what you want to do. Where

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did you like, where was your thought process on that? And did you have trouble figuring

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To me, I think that specific moment was about understanding

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that in the conservation field, there were a lot of biologists, there were a

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lot of environmentalists and people with a

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scientific background. But when it comes to engineering, there

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is not that many engineers that are contributing to this world. And

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I saw, yeah, I saw kind of a gap or maybe

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a hole that I could fulfill. And I just, yeah,

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I felt that there was something. I didn't know exactly what

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it was, but I came back to my normal job. I was working

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in England back then. And I was like, okay, what

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I can do? So I started thinking about well, water quality could

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be something we can start doing data analysis of water quality. We can

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build a crane to support like the artificial reefs. And

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I have like a bunch of seven different projects that I wanted to, and like

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maybe only two of them actually then work. But it's

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about just bringing ideas to the projects. And for people that

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are in this moment that they don't know what to do, it's like my advice

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Well, I agree with you. What I love about what you were

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just saying there is you start to think like an engineer, right?

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If we're doing coral restoration, things are heavy. It's not

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easy. You need a crane to do this. We can build this. We can use technology for

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water quality and maybe connect to a phone cell tower and get

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the data back and stuff like that. You're thinking like an engineer. Which

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not a lot of people do. If you talk to scientists, especially academics,

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you'll see them like, oh, we've got to engineer this together. We've got to piece this together.

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We've got to build something. And as a student, you learn that. You learn

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to be handy. You learn to really DIY yourself, do

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it all yourself at that point, which is really cool. But

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I think that's what a big thing is. Not a lot of people think about that.

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I think, and you kind of mentioned it, there are a lot of biologists, a lot

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of environmentalists, but I think that's the first thing people think about. when they

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talk about marine conservation, when they think about the ocean. Well, I don't

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really want to go back to school to do a four-year degree in

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marine biology. And I always tell them, like, you don't have to. You can

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do it yourself just by bringing your own skills. If you have

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marketing, you can start telling stories. If you have business,

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you can help run organizations. If you're an engineer, you

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can build stuff, which is pretty cool, because I never able to

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do that. of so that I think it but it's bringing your own

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personal and your own skill set to the table to

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see what you can build now once you got there you had your own

250
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ideas now you're working for a company now or

251
00:15:33,369 --> 00:15:36,952
at this point you're working for a company What made you decide

252
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to come up with Inoceana, like create an entirely new

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non-profit organization? Even then, even going from

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non-profit to a, compared to a private company, but what made you decide

255
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to do stuff on your own instead of joining another movement?

256
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It was like everything in life. It was a process. I

257
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didn't know what I was going to do in Oceana when I quit my job. I

258
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wanted to go to the ocean. I wanted to be back in Thailand. I wanted

259
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to help this conservation group. But I didn't know

260
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that Oceana was even in my plans. What I knew is that I love Yeah,

261
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I love building things. I love innovation ideas. And

262
00:16:17,928 --> 00:16:21,290
actually, I was very successful in my career in England working

263
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as an engineer. I got this award of innovation in

264
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construction. So I got this huge recognition. I was like, I

265
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think I can do something with this that is more aligned with my values and with my

266
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passion. And when I was in Spain, about to

267
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just take off to go to Thailand, this guy from the

268
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environmental, kind of somebody who was working in the Ministry

269
00:16:41,896 --> 00:16:45,036
of Environment in Spain, came to me and said, have you considered making a

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non-profit organization? Because the government is going to start submitting

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grants or something. I was like, I have no idea how to do that, but let's

272
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just start looking at that. And I took

273
00:16:55,338 --> 00:16:58,678
my mother and my best friend, and I was like, I need three signatures, guys. Let's

274
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put together the signatures for the bylaws, and let's submit this. And

275
00:17:02,659 --> 00:17:06,282
that was the very beginning of Inoceana. So it was a non-profit organization

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00:17:06,322 --> 00:17:09,404
in Spain. Today, Inoceana is a 5-1-2-3 in the

277
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United States, a non-profit in Spain, a non-profit in Costa Rica.

278
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We'll have to get you up in Canada, too, at some point. I

279
00:17:19,351 --> 00:17:22,833
love it. You mentioned something that I didn't really expect.

280
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You mentioned that you quit your job, and then you were going to fly to Thailand. But

281
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right before, that's when you started Inoceana. That's

282
00:17:30,095 --> 00:17:33,479
pretty scary to just quit your job like that and then move

283
00:17:33,579 --> 00:17:36,643
on to something else, not knowing especially what you're going to

284
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do. At that time, were you going to get paid by that marine organization or

285
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,923
No, no, I didn't have any expectation of payment. I have like

286
00:17:46,183 --> 00:17:50,546
$30,000 savings of life from my engineering curriculum.

287
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And it just flew over to support these people and to kind of

288
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see where my path was. And it was just

289
00:17:58,010 --> 00:18:01,252
to be totally, completely open. It took me three years to start

290
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seeing money coming. So I needed to live with $30,000, I

291
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needed to live three years traveling around the world. So it was a challenge.

292
00:18:09,013 --> 00:18:12,835
Yeah, for sure it's a challenge. But from a personal aspect,

293
00:18:12,955 --> 00:18:16,256
how was that dealing with... Because there's

294
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a lot of stress around not having money, right? Especially when you're trying to do

295
00:18:19,578 --> 00:18:23,000
something and you're trying to push for something. How was

296
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,281
that on your own mental health or on the

297
00:18:26,321 --> 00:18:29,623
way you conducted business when you don't have money as

298
00:18:29,643 --> 00:18:32,764
you're trying to find money wherever you can? How did

299
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I mean, that was a big struggle for me

300
00:18:40,476 --> 00:18:44,178
and I guess for everyone. Every entrepreneur probably

301
00:18:44,198 --> 00:18:47,881
goes through this situation where you are like, oh my God, I don't have even

302
00:18:47,921 --> 00:18:51,023
the money to bring my girlfriend for dinner. I cannot pay for that. I

303
00:18:51,063 --> 00:18:54,406
cannot afford that. And you know, I don't have money to rent a house. I

304
00:18:54,446 --> 00:18:59,950
need to stay in my friend's or family or whoever's house. At

305
00:18:59,970 --> 00:19:03,752
that time, I was already 30 years old. I

306
00:19:03,792 --> 00:19:07,133
was coming from this career where being an engineer, my

307
00:19:07,173 --> 00:19:11,395
money was not a problem. I have a nice place to live. The

308
00:19:11,435 --> 00:19:14,836
security was strong, was very strong. All

309
00:19:14,856 --> 00:19:18,818
of my friends were just growing, buying houses, having kids. I'm not

310
00:19:18,878 --> 00:19:22,019
able to just go out for dinner. It was just a

311
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,502
When Innocean started, what was the vision when

312
00:19:30,137 --> 00:19:33,360
Well, I would say that the vision has changed a little bit into the

313
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,462
details, but the reality is that for me, the vision is

314
00:19:36,502 --> 00:19:39,985
the same. As a final goal, it's

315
00:19:40,045 --> 00:19:43,928
about changing the mindset of people and about changing how the

316
00:19:43,988 --> 00:19:47,350
society works. That's kind of in the

317
00:19:47,390 --> 00:19:50,773
philosophical level. From a practical standpoint, it's

318
00:19:50,853 --> 00:19:54,396
about restoring the ecosystems underwater that are damaged, and

319
00:19:54,476 --> 00:19:58,099
those who are still not damaged protect them. So it's kind of this combination of

320
00:19:58,619 --> 00:20:01,863
But to do that, we need to work with the communities and with the other

321
00:20:01,903 --> 00:20:05,147
organizations, with other people and bring them to the water. I've

322
00:20:05,187 --> 00:20:08,311
just been for eight years bringing a lot of people to the water and

323
00:20:08,431 --> 00:20:11,535
just to show them what's going on there. And then, of course, we have

324
00:20:13,257 --> 00:20:17,239
Yeah, for sure. I mean, there are a lot of projects. So trying

325
00:20:17,259 --> 00:20:20,901
to bring people to the ocean is admirable.

326
00:20:20,961 --> 00:20:24,422
Obviously, people need to get connected to the ocean. They need to see what's happening.

327
00:20:24,823 --> 00:20:28,324
Obviously, they see the beauty, but they also see some of the problems. Like Costa

328
00:20:28,344 --> 00:20:31,566
Rica is fantastic. I've been there before. We were discussing before we

329
00:20:31,606 --> 00:20:35,247
pressed record. But I remember the first rainfall that we had, the

330
00:20:35,287 --> 00:20:38,549
amount of trash that came up on the beach just from all

331
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:43,071
the water coming from inland as well as coming back from the ocean. It

332
00:20:43,111 --> 00:20:46,294
was insane. It was like night and day to see that. Obviously, they

333
00:20:46,314 --> 00:20:49,517
did a great job cleaning it up, but you're just like, well,

334
00:20:49,918 --> 00:20:54,622
that's interesting to see how much stuff comes up on the beach on

335
00:20:54,662 --> 00:20:57,805
a night sort of storm. So you get to see

336
00:20:57,845 --> 00:21:01,188
some of the bad part about what's happening

337
00:21:01,228 --> 00:21:04,311
in the ocean as well, especially from inside the

338
00:21:04,351 --> 00:21:07,534
coast. So again, you know, I asked the question like when

339
00:21:07,554 --> 00:21:11,237
you start an organization like this, you got to focus on specific projects.

340
00:21:11,497 --> 00:21:14,660
You're an engineer, you can build a lot of things. And that's probably where you're thinking at

341
00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:18,004
this point. Where did you begin? What was your first? What was your first

342
00:21:19,684 --> 00:21:23,107
The first project was in Thailand, but it wasn't actually the project that

343
00:21:23,127 --> 00:21:26,650
I wanted to launch. My idea as an engineer was artificial reefs.

344
00:21:26,850 --> 00:21:30,393
So I was like, let's build this artificial reef concrete base that

345
00:21:30,433 --> 00:21:33,876
we can put there and we save the reef. And when I arrived to

346
00:21:33,896 --> 00:21:37,139
Thailand, I discovered there were so many people doing that. And most

347
00:21:37,179 --> 00:21:40,962
of those projects weren't even working. There were almost dumping

348
00:21:41,042 --> 00:21:44,465
stations that people were throwing to the ocean, any kind of trash you can imagine.

349
00:21:44,485 --> 00:21:48,107
And it was a disaster. There was so many tunicates growing and

350
00:21:48,227 --> 00:21:51,388
like all the other falling organisms, but when it comes to coral, there

351
00:21:51,408 --> 00:21:54,750
was no recovery. So I switched

352
00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:57,991
my mindset and I was like, okay, what is what these people need? And

353
00:21:58,191 --> 00:22:01,432
we focus on measuring the water. Because as

354
00:22:01,472 --> 00:22:04,753
an engineer, I'm good at building things, but what engineers do the best

355
00:22:04,893 --> 00:22:08,315
is assessing. It's assessing the environment, it's assessing what is around.

356
00:22:08,515 --> 00:22:11,816
Because before you build a bridge, you need to know what kind of soil you have,

357
00:22:11,876 --> 00:22:15,538
what is the weather, what is the rainfall, all of that. all of the parameters.

358
00:22:15,938 --> 00:22:19,459
So we started putting a lot of water quality kits into

359
00:22:19,479 --> 00:22:22,761
the dive centers in Kotal. That was the island I was working

360
00:22:22,801 --> 00:22:26,223
in. And people were starting measuring the water quality for

361
00:22:26,283 --> 00:22:29,985
us and getting data that supports those artificial reefs,

362
00:22:31,445 --> 00:22:34,787
Now, this is interesting. You're getting people to get to take water quality

363
00:22:34,827 --> 00:22:37,948
samples. Who were you getting? Is it just local community members? And

364
00:22:39,963 --> 00:22:43,385
So the island of Koh Tao is a very well-known diving

365
00:22:43,445 --> 00:22:47,068
destiny, and it's a tiny island, eight kilometers long, full

366
00:22:47,108 --> 00:22:50,370
of tour operators. So we were starting with the tour operators there, and

367
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:53,852
they were kind of joining. We were giving lectures, we

368
00:22:53,872 --> 00:22:57,214
were giving materials, and they were taking sampling for us, and also they

369
00:22:57,254 --> 00:23:00,616
were using that as a tool to educate other people. So

370
00:23:00,636 --> 00:23:03,778
it was a very, in my view, it was a very strong project, and

371
00:23:05,871 --> 00:23:09,018
And you, did you supply all the instrumentation for them? Like you,

372
00:23:11,420 --> 00:23:15,122
Yeah, we supplied. The first round was all about actually

373
00:23:15,182 --> 00:23:19,023
me bringing from Spain a lot of water quality elements, like tools.

374
00:23:19,823 --> 00:23:23,025
And then eventually, we were in the second round, I

375
00:23:23,045 --> 00:23:26,166
couldn't afford that. And we didn't have a funding opportunity. But

376
00:23:26,206 --> 00:23:30,008
the dive centers, they have money. So they were able to buy

377
00:23:32,509 --> 00:23:35,790
So they see it as a, the operators see it as

378
00:23:35,830 --> 00:23:39,011
a plus because they are showing their people, like

379
00:23:39,031 --> 00:23:42,093
the tourists. what's happening and people want to

380
00:23:42,113 --> 00:23:45,255
see healthy. And again, I like I'll be honest, like I

381
00:23:45,275 --> 00:23:48,497
know I'm biased, but if I go to a tour operator that's doing like

382
00:23:48,557 --> 00:23:51,759
snorkeling and stuff and they're like, yeah, we've been measuring this area for a while and this

383
00:23:51,859 --> 00:23:55,121
clarity has got clear. Sometimes there's there's some bad stuff, but

384
00:23:55,161 --> 00:23:58,243
we know when it's bad. We know when it's good. We know when it's to come and we're trying to

385
00:23:58,284 --> 00:24:01,666
work to get better. Then you feel as a church like, oh, OK, this is we

386
00:24:01,706 --> 00:24:04,828
know this outfit's good because they want their water quality to

387
00:24:04,868 --> 00:24:07,977
be good. Right. And that's so that makes a a big benefit. So it

388
00:24:07,997 --> 00:24:11,399
almost so much of a benefit that they're willing to buy their own gears

389
00:24:13,239 --> 00:24:16,600
And the good news and there is not a lot of good news in the world today.

390
00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:19,921
But one of the good news is that I see more and more people like you or

391
00:24:19,961 --> 00:24:23,263
me that are very aware and they want to learn more. So there

392
00:24:27,364 --> 00:24:31,186
Yeah, which is great to see. And that mindset

393
00:24:31,226 --> 00:24:34,328
changed. I guess in Thailand, too, you said there's a lot of

394
00:24:34,348 --> 00:24:37,670
people doing conservation work. Yeah. You talked about

395
00:24:37,690 --> 00:24:41,052
the outfit that inspired you. There's a lot of people doing artificial reefs.

396
00:24:41,693 --> 00:24:44,894
When you approach them, the tour operators, how did they

397
00:24:44,934 --> 00:24:48,236
first sort of, were they warm to

398
00:24:48,296 --> 00:24:51,438
you? Were they saying, oh, yeah, we'd love to work

399
00:24:51,458 --> 00:24:54,700
with you? Or were they a little skeptical about you coming in to being like,

400
00:24:56,932 --> 00:25:00,455
In Thailand, I think they were very open, but in Costa Rica,

401
00:25:00,875 --> 00:25:04,158
at the beginning, it was very hard. It depends on where. It

402
00:25:04,178 --> 00:25:07,780
changed a lot. And now, the organization has

403
00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:11,303
grown a lot, and now we are starting new challenges. We are starting projects

404
00:25:11,363 --> 00:25:14,806
in Africa, and man, that's a next-level problem. I

405
00:25:14,846 --> 00:25:18,248
don't even know how to approach that situation. But as

406
00:25:18,288 --> 00:25:21,871
I was saying, the more conservation

407
00:25:21,931 --> 00:25:25,013
is a normal thing, the more open the people are, because they see us as a

408
00:25:25,054 --> 00:25:28,177
win-win. But in places where conservation hasn't been a

409
00:25:28,197 --> 00:25:31,760
thing before, they are a bit skeptical that you are coming to remove

410
00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:35,004
the, I don't know, to steal the business model or something, things

411
00:25:35,304 --> 00:25:38,788
Yeah, yeah, it's true. I can see, you know, and you're

412
00:25:39,188 --> 00:25:42,892
an outsider in a lot of these places, so I can see people being a little skeptical, I'm

413
00:25:43,052 --> 00:25:46,255
sure. In in the past, you know people

414
00:25:46,275 --> 00:25:49,518
have taken them for a ride or try to take them for a ride And then you

415
00:25:49,538 --> 00:25:53,081
have to be a little skeptical, right? And and I

416
00:25:53,121 --> 00:25:56,484
think it's it's important to when you like actually well I'll ask

417
00:25:56,524 --> 00:25:59,727
you this is like when you do approach them and and

418
00:25:59,747 --> 00:26:04,110
like places in Africa places in Costa Rica and Thailand How

419
00:26:04,211 --> 00:26:07,553
do you approach where they you can gain their trust? Like what

420
00:26:10,233 --> 00:26:13,355
So in the past it was different because as I was saying, we

421
00:26:13,375 --> 00:26:16,677
didn't have anything. I have a bunch of volunteers that were following me wherever

422
00:26:16,717 --> 00:26:19,839
I go, but that was it. And it was much easier because when you

423
00:26:19,879 --> 00:26:23,061
are small and when you have like a small operation or no

424
00:26:23,101 --> 00:26:26,483
operation and you are living with the rangers in the national parks

425
00:26:26,803 --> 00:26:30,385
and the people meet you there and you are like there with just your broken, almost

426
00:26:30,425 --> 00:26:33,567
clothes because you are just in the middle of nowhere and you don't care too

427
00:26:33,587 --> 00:26:37,509
much. People are super open to you and they are like, okay, these guys,

428
00:26:37,649 --> 00:26:41,111
what a cute situation, whatever. Now that Innocena has

429
00:26:41,671 --> 00:26:44,933
operation and we have boats, we have buildings, we

430
00:26:44,973 --> 00:26:48,355
have like operation, it's different because the

431
00:26:48,375 --> 00:26:51,776
approach is more professional, I would say. And sometimes

432
00:26:51,796 --> 00:26:55,498
the communities are a little bit more skeptical because they are like, oh no, these

433
00:26:55,518 --> 00:26:58,560
people are big and they just want to take advantage of us.

434
00:26:58,860 --> 00:27:02,341
So it's about building trust. It's about showing

435
00:27:02,521 --> 00:27:05,982
slowly but surely how much you can do for them. But

436
00:27:06,242 --> 00:27:09,603
in the past, again, I didn't need to be careful, because it was just me

437
00:27:13,524 --> 00:27:16,605
And it's easy, because if you're starting a project, they're probably just like, well, I

438
00:27:16,625 --> 00:27:19,806
don't have to put in anything. I don't have to pay that much money. And it's like

439
00:27:19,826 --> 00:27:23,687
a couple of volunteers. And then they get to meet you personally. Now

440
00:27:23,768 --> 00:27:27,269
I can see it, like people seeing big, because they're probably meeting some of your staff

441
00:27:27,309 --> 00:27:30,531
and some of the other people. you probably have materials and stuff, and they're

442
00:27:30,551 --> 00:27:33,833
like, oh, this seems really big, you know, and I need to, I

443
00:27:33,873 --> 00:27:37,176
need to, you know, do I need to worry about this? What's their ulterior motive, even

444
00:27:37,196 --> 00:27:40,659
though you don't have one? And I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of questions that

445
00:27:40,699 --> 00:27:44,062
go on there. And I think it's really important, just, it's important, I guess, is

446
00:27:44,122 --> 00:27:47,725
more of the communication aspect, right? It's when you do community engagements, like,

447
00:27:48,326 --> 00:27:51,508
we're here to help you what, like, is that the question you ask? Like, what

448
00:27:53,519 --> 00:27:57,142
It's, I think, coming from the engineering perspective, communication

449
00:27:57,202 --> 00:28:00,525
is always the number one challenge in any project, in any

450
00:28:00,545 --> 00:28:03,708
project. But I think when it comes to marine conservation that has so

451
00:28:03,728 --> 00:28:07,071
many different stakeholders, you have the fisherman community, you have just

452
00:28:07,091 --> 00:28:10,855
the community in the village, you have the universities, the other organizations like

453
00:28:11,335 --> 00:28:15,477
the core of our community. It's such

454
00:28:15,517 --> 00:28:18,799
a challenge to make everybody happy. That's where

455
00:28:18,819 --> 00:28:21,900
I am every day now, trying to understand how to make an

456
00:28:21,941 --> 00:28:25,782
impact that is empowering communities, not making communities more

457
00:28:28,544 --> 00:28:31,766
Yeah, exactly. Well, I guess it must be fun for you when you

458
00:28:31,806 --> 00:28:35,628
go to a community and you say, What

459
00:28:35,668 --> 00:28:39,170
kind of help? We're an organization that helps the

460
00:28:39,250 --> 00:28:42,533
ocean. We're in for marine conservation. We want to help the ocean. We

461
00:28:42,553 --> 00:28:45,876
want to help you. Let's talk about your problems. They

462
00:28:45,896 --> 00:28:49,098
probably present your problems and you're like, all right, your engineer brain's going off and

463
00:28:49,118 --> 00:28:52,601
you're just like, okay, this is how we help. That

464
00:28:56,209 --> 00:29:00,253
That's my favorite thing to do. Actually, I have a

465
00:29:00,293 --> 00:29:04,016
very good example for this. Two months ago, I went to Fiji because

466
00:29:04,156 --> 00:29:07,639
I have an opportunity to start a project there through some collaborations. And

467
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,623
I arrived to this community. I didn't know anyone. And, you know, I don't know

468
00:29:11,663 --> 00:29:15,987
if you've ever been to Fiji, but in Fiji, there is a lot of indigenous pride

469
00:29:16,107 --> 00:29:19,930
and respect. So the chiefs are

470
00:29:19,991 --> 00:29:23,134
in charge of giving permits to do anything. If you want to go fishing, you need to

471
00:29:23,174 --> 00:29:26,657
speak to the chief. If you want to go diving, you need to speak to the chief. So

472
00:29:26,838 --> 00:29:30,141
the first thing I did is go to meet the chief and drink Cava with him.

473
00:29:30,241 --> 00:29:33,945
Cava is like this kind of the traditional drink.

474
00:29:34,445 --> 00:29:37,708
And speaking to the chief, he was like, OK, so what can we do here?

475
00:29:37,728 --> 00:29:40,890
I have no idea of your land, but you tell me and you hear them and

476
00:29:41,251 --> 00:29:44,513
you see the problems and then you start building kind of

477
00:29:44,553 --> 00:29:47,976
connection with the community. And where we are standing now is that we are training

478
00:29:48,536 --> 00:29:51,859
10 kids of that community in marine conservation. So we are making

479
00:29:51,899 --> 00:29:55,402
them divers and then they are going to be trained in coral restoration and

480
00:29:55,442 --> 00:29:58,825
other things. And eventually, that team is going to be leading the

481
00:29:58,865 --> 00:30:02,408
project in Fiji. Instead of bringing people from the outside, you just train

482
00:30:02,428 --> 00:30:06,011
the people in the place. And I think that's a very interesting

483
00:30:10,034 --> 00:30:13,257
Yeah, for sure. And that technology transfer as well. It probably

484
00:30:13,277 --> 00:30:17,280
makes it easy for your operations too. You can always check in on them, provide

485
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:20,563
any kind of support that they need. But let's be honest, they're the ones,

486
00:30:21,104 --> 00:30:24,646
the local communities are always the ones that have the biggest stake in protecting

487
00:30:25,937 --> 00:30:29,159
And they know everything. It's like, I'm not going to

488
00:30:29,199 --> 00:30:32,881
teach you much. I can provide you with the tools and I can be basic

489
00:30:32,901 --> 00:30:36,123
things, but you have the real knowledge of what is going

490
00:30:38,364 --> 00:30:41,706
Yeah. And I mean, it's so cool because you're able to talk to

491
00:30:41,726 --> 00:30:44,868
a lot of different communities. I mean, just from a few conversations, you're

492
00:30:44,908 --> 00:30:48,130
able to build some nice big projects. How

493
00:30:48,170 --> 00:30:52,411
do you pay for all this? and pay for yourself. Let's be

494
00:30:52,451 --> 00:30:55,515
honest, funding in marine conservation is not easy to

495
00:30:55,555 --> 00:30:59,440
get, as you well know, right? How

496
00:30:59,481 --> 00:31:02,625
did you really start fundraising for these

497
00:31:02,705 --> 00:31:05,950
areas, and how has that evolved over time, over

498
00:31:08,376 --> 00:31:11,738
That has been the hardest part of this because asking for money

499
00:31:11,758 --> 00:31:15,020
is not easy. I'm building business models out of

500
00:31:15,060 --> 00:31:18,182
things that are good for the environment, the

501
00:31:18,242 --> 00:31:21,724
ocean, the world. It's the hardest thing. It seems like this world is

502
00:31:21,864 --> 00:31:25,206
easy to make money when you do bad things, but when you want to do

503
00:31:25,246 --> 00:31:29,908
good things, it's just so hard, man. So

504
00:31:30,429 --> 00:31:33,911
at the beginning, as I told you, for three years, I was just putting my savings

505
00:31:33,991 --> 00:31:38,394
and friends and family fundraising was the thing, like FNF. And

506
00:31:38,434 --> 00:31:42,058
then we started kind of being successful

507
00:31:42,118 --> 00:31:46,263
with some specific grants, and we were applying for small grants. And

508
00:31:46,303 --> 00:31:49,627
then I had the idea of starting a non-profit organization in

509
00:31:49,667 --> 00:31:53,551
the US, so in a way that we can have an umbrella funding,

510
00:31:54,212 --> 00:31:57,656
like an umbrella for all the organizations that we can fundraise money in

511
00:31:57,676 --> 00:32:01,059
the US, because You know, people can get some benefits in taxes

512
00:32:01,159 --> 00:32:04,681
if they donate to Oceana. So that was kind of the process. It

513
00:32:04,701 --> 00:32:07,963
took time to start. It helped. And then, of course, it has been

514
00:32:07,983 --> 00:32:11,806
a lot of me visiting a lot of people and convincing

515
00:32:11,846 --> 00:32:15,369
them how important is what we are doing. It's like

516
00:32:15,769 --> 00:32:18,892
literally many nights without sleeping, without knowing how I'm

517
00:32:18,932 --> 00:32:22,054
going to pay my team, because I have 25 salaries at the end of the month that I

518
00:32:22,074 --> 00:32:25,517
need to pay, and 25 salaries is money

519
00:32:25,557 --> 00:32:31,682
at the end of the year. So now, actually, this

520
00:32:32,082 --> 00:32:35,165
2025, I can say that is the best situation I've ever been in the

521
00:32:35,185 --> 00:32:38,707
organization, funding-wise. But we are still far from where

522
00:32:38,727 --> 00:32:42,529
I want to be. But if you ask me six months ago, I probably

523
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:46,292
didn't sleep thinking about how the hell I'm going to find the money for the operation. It's

524
00:32:48,553 --> 00:32:51,995
Is it a mix of grants and then private donors

525
00:32:55,606 --> 00:32:58,927
I think it's a mix between grants, private donors, and

526
00:32:59,668 --> 00:33:03,289
service fee from some business, like business inside the

527
00:33:03,389 --> 00:33:06,931
nonprofit organization. So we partner with some hotels and

528
00:33:06,971 --> 00:33:10,452
we do some projects for them. Like for instance, in

529
00:33:10,472 --> 00:33:14,034
Costa Rica, we run a tour operator with a hotel that we provide

530
00:33:14,074 --> 00:33:17,275
with all of the community science knowledge and we put some

531
00:33:17,895 --> 00:33:21,097
tour guides there, like we work with them. So it's just a mix of

532
00:33:21,937 --> 00:33:25,379
Yeah, for sure. That's smart. I like that. Because

533
00:33:25,419 --> 00:33:30,042
if you think about it, you're in control of that, right? Your organization

534
00:33:30,222 --> 00:33:33,604
runs that operation. And it's a way to bring in money, not

535
00:33:33,664 --> 00:33:37,386
only to pay them to do it, bring in money, plus you're educating tourists

536
00:33:38,227 --> 00:33:42,189
on the local flora and fauna, right? Exactly. The local areas.

537
00:33:42,489 --> 00:33:45,631
And then you can talk about the conservation projects that you're working with them.

538
00:33:45,971 --> 00:33:49,296
Plus it makes the hotel look good because it's like a business that they work with you.

539
00:33:50,257 --> 00:33:53,641
That's really great. So do you only do that in Costa

540
00:33:57,202 --> 00:34:00,343
So our two main projects are happening in Costa Rica and in

541
00:34:00,383 --> 00:34:03,784
Spain. Those are the two locations where we have most of the people. In

542
00:34:03,824 --> 00:34:07,645
California, we do some awareness projects and some documentaries

543
00:34:07,725 --> 00:34:11,126
and small things. And now we have a project

544
00:34:11,166 --> 00:34:14,386
starting in Fiji. That's the one I mentioned. And also we

545
00:34:14,406 --> 00:34:18,688
have a European-funded project in the Philippines.

546
00:34:18,968 --> 00:34:22,228
We are also starting another interesting project. And those

547
00:34:22,288 --> 00:34:25,711
are the main locations right now. But my dream is

548
00:34:25,771 --> 00:34:29,956
to escalate this organization to a next level and we could go

549
00:34:29,976 --> 00:34:33,280
all over the place. I will be traveling from country to country,

550
00:34:34,892 --> 00:34:38,894
That's phenomenal. I love that aspect because as

551
00:34:39,695 --> 00:34:45,038
you say, finding grants, finding donors, it's

552
00:34:45,078 --> 00:34:48,400
not always the main source of income, right? You need

553
00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:51,942
to have your own services. And I'll be honest, as a podcaster, I

554
00:34:52,002 --> 00:34:55,544
see it too. When we talk about podcasting, everybody's

555
00:34:55,565 --> 00:34:58,967
like, well, you get sponsorships, you get sponsors, and everybody wants to be a Joe Rogan or

556
00:34:59,027 --> 00:35:02,189
whatever, and you get major sponsors. But that's not the case for

557
00:35:02,229 --> 00:35:05,732
a lot of people. The sponsors are really difficult. grants and donors

558
00:35:05,792 --> 00:35:09,497
right then you can get like people on patreon or people like to donate to

559
00:35:09,537 --> 00:35:12,642
support but even then it's really three percent of your audience if you

560
00:35:12,662 --> 00:35:16,047
don't have a huge audience you're not going to get a lot of people

561
00:35:16,187 --> 00:35:19,541
donating and so it having your

562
00:35:19,641 --> 00:35:23,123
own services and having your own business where you can make money

563
00:35:23,243 --> 00:35:27,546
off of that and use it almost as a marketing tool. This

564
00:35:27,626 --> 00:35:31,928
one is you just bring it back in as education and awareness

565
00:35:32,028 --> 00:35:35,450
and building. I just think it's it's it's phenomenal allows you

566
00:35:35,550 --> 00:35:38,972
to do what you need to do in the type of business you do, you can probably do

567
00:35:39,032 --> 00:35:42,574
it in Fiji, you can probably do it, you know, in Spain,

568
00:35:42,615 --> 00:35:45,756
you can probably do it in Costa Rica, you're doing it in Costa Rica, you can do it anywhere you

569
00:35:45,776 --> 00:35:49,117
want in the world, Thailand, And you can work with tour operators to

570
00:35:49,157 --> 00:35:52,318
get that, or even a percentage of that to get there. There's a lot of

571
00:35:52,358 --> 00:35:57,601
partnerships that you can work with to be able to do that. I think that's probably

572
00:35:57,681 --> 00:36:01,462
the best long-term sustainability for a

573
00:36:01,502 --> 00:36:04,844
nonprofit organization is to do that. And the money just goes right

574
00:36:08,686 --> 00:36:11,787
Yeah, yeah. Not easy to set up, because you're basically setting up a

575
00:36:11,847 --> 00:36:15,069
business within a business. How does that

576
00:36:15,169 --> 00:36:18,449
work? you know, in terms of time, like

577
00:36:18,469 --> 00:36:21,870
that your staff puts into getting the business,

578
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:25,371
as well as, like, is it the same staff that does the eco

579
00:36:25,391 --> 00:36:29,132
tours, that does the research, or that does the conservation

580
00:36:30,032 --> 00:36:33,513
Not necessarily, of course. Of course, I have the mentality that

581
00:36:33,573 --> 00:36:36,894
when you work in marine conservation, the staff should

582
00:36:36,934 --> 00:36:40,335
be able to do anything. Like, it's kind of, we need to be flexible, because marine

583
00:36:40,355 --> 00:36:44,176
conservation is flexible. Like, the ocean changes all the time. But

584
00:36:44,856 --> 00:36:48,058
I have people specialized in different things. So normally, the person who

585
00:36:48,098 --> 00:36:52,719
is in charge of this collaboration with this hotel is different

586
00:36:52,739 --> 00:36:56,340
than the people that are doing research. And actually, I just

587
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,862
come in now from a meeting with all of them, and we were talking about that specific

588
00:36:59,902 --> 00:37:03,123
topic. It's important that everybody can help everybody, but also there are

589
00:37:04,903 --> 00:37:08,404
Yeah, and different specializations. But I'm sure everybody, because you

590
00:37:08,444 --> 00:37:11,826
do so many cool things, I'm sure some people are like, oh, I want to try that

591
00:37:11,866 --> 00:37:15,014
a little bit, or I want to try that you want to make them happy, right? You want to

592
00:37:15,034 --> 00:37:18,297
make sure that they have a good spot. I love it.

593
00:37:18,437 --> 00:37:21,659
I love it. Now, in terms of the project, so

594
00:37:24,761 --> 00:37:28,104
So if I tell you the truth, we have like, I

595
00:37:28,144 --> 00:37:31,667
don't know, in total maybe over 40 or 50 projects.

596
00:37:31,707 --> 00:37:35,670
But we decided to narrow down the projects to more like bulks

597
00:37:35,810 --> 00:37:38,952
of projects. So if I tell you in Costa Rica, our main

598
00:37:38,992 --> 00:37:42,073
projects are coral restoration, but we don't do

599
00:37:42,113 --> 00:37:45,454
coral restoration as normal coral restoration. We are actually working on

600
00:37:45,494 --> 00:37:48,775
the immunology system. So we are trying to understand why some corals

601
00:37:48,855 --> 00:37:52,476
are surviving all of the climate change situation and trying to

602
00:37:52,556 --> 00:37:55,717
kind of focus on what we call super corals. And this

603
00:37:56,097 --> 00:37:59,718
concept in the scientific world is a tricky concept because it's

604
00:37:59,758 --> 00:38:02,839
not as easy as a super coral and it's going to survive. But yeah, we

605
00:38:02,879 --> 00:38:06,360
are trying to find those corals that can survive the future of this planet.

606
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,442
The other project in Costa Rica is about the humpback whales.

607
00:38:11,622 --> 00:38:14,803
So we monitor the humpback whales, we put hydrophones, we go in

608
00:38:14,823 --> 00:38:18,385
the water, we take photos and

609
00:38:18,845 --> 00:38:23,647
we jump in the water with them, which is the best part, of course. And

610
00:38:24,107 --> 00:38:27,628
that's the second one. And the third one is about the plastic problem.

611
00:38:27,668 --> 00:38:30,790
So we do cleanups all year round. And now we are

612
00:38:31,170 --> 00:38:34,251
working on this other business model that is the

613
00:38:34,432 --> 00:38:37,714
kind of the precious plastic concept. So we just take the trash

614
00:38:37,754 --> 00:38:41,037
from the beach and we clean it and then we go through the shredder and

615
00:38:41,077 --> 00:38:45,001
then we stress it and we create furniture. So we are creating chairs, benches

616
00:38:45,121 --> 00:38:48,304
and like a lot of things that we are going to sell to the community instead of them

617
00:38:48,364 --> 00:38:51,867
going to the supermarket and buy things like they can't really buy

618
00:38:51,887 --> 00:38:55,791
something that support the ocean. That's in Costa Rica. If

619
00:38:55,831 --> 00:38:59,193
we go to Spain, It's similar, but in Spain

620
00:38:59,213 --> 00:39:02,474
right now, the biggest, biggest project we have is the building of

621
00:39:02,594 --> 00:39:06,255
a marine conservation center. So Europe, we

622
00:39:06,315 --> 00:39:09,636
applied for a big funding and we got it. So we are leading the

623
00:39:10,556 --> 00:39:14,017
building of a new marine conservation center in the Canary

624
00:39:14,098 --> 00:39:17,359
Islands, which in my heart, this is

625
00:39:17,399 --> 00:39:20,740
like the biggest thing because this is coming from us being

626
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,201
crucial in stopping the construction of a port.

627
00:39:25,390 --> 00:39:29,353
that I built the road for. So I built the road as an engineer, then

628
00:39:29,373 --> 00:39:32,895
we were able to build the port, and now we are building a marine conservation center

629
00:39:32,935 --> 00:39:36,397
in this area, which is a very change of mindset. And

630
00:39:37,018 --> 00:39:40,280
that project is probably one

631
00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:43,542
of the biggest we have at the moment. And just to finish with the Canary Islands, we also

632
00:39:43,582 --> 00:39:46,764
do a lot of cleanups and we are working on the seagrass. So we do

633
00:39:46,784 --> 00:39:50,187
seagrass restoration in the Canary Islands, because we don't have corals as

634
00:39:50,487 --> 00:39:53,809
we have in the tropics, but we have seagrass, which is a very

635
00:39:55,410 --> 00:39:58,651
Well, I mean, it's still just as productive, right? If not even more productive, some

636
00:39:58,671 --> 00:40:02,112
may argue, in terms of what's necessary. Plus, provides

637
00:40:02,132 --> 00:40:05,413
a lot of coastline security, and it's a huge

638
00:40:06,933 --> 00:40:10,294
And as a very quick number,

639
00:40:10,334 --> 00:40:13,495
in the Canary Islands, we lost 50% of all the seagrass in

640
00:40:16,796 --> 00:40:21,858
And what was that caused by? Was that just climate change, or was that degradation?

641
00:40:23,311 --> 00:40:26,714
I can tell you that I've seen it with my eyes and I think the biggest

642
00:40:26,734 --> 00:40:30,358
stressor is the coastal development and all of the tourism. It's

643
00:40:30,398 --> 00:40:34,202
just growing and growing and that damage. Because climate change, and

644
00:40:34,222 --> 00:40:39,006
there is a lot of papers that show how the temperature

645
00:40:39,086 --> 00:40:42,870
rising in the ocean is not really affecting the seagrass as much as the corals. So

646
00:40:46,914 --> 00:40:50,276
Yeah, yeah, I can see that. What's

647
00:40:50,336 --> 00:40:54,278
interesting is people don't care about seagrasses as much as they do about corals, right?

648
00:40:54,338 --> 00:40:57,980
Man, that has been such a personal fight

649
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,321
to show everyone that there is plants under the water and everybody, is

650
00:41:01,341 --> 00:41:04,523
that an algae? No, no, they are plants. They capture, they

651
00:41:04,583 --> 00:41:07,764
sequester carbon from the atmosphere and we need it for

652
00:41:08,925 --> 00:41:12,127
You know, I think we need to change the word for

653
00:41:12,147 --> 00:41:15,670
it. In English, anyway, everybody calls it seaweed. So

654
00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:18,832
it's like a weed. So they're just like, well, it's going to grow back again. I'm like, not if you

655
00:41:18,852 --> 00:41:22,114
destroy every part of it. I'm like, think of it as a plant. Would you go into

656
00:41:22,154 --> 00:41:26,117
your garden and just take out everything because you feel like it's weird on your feet? Because

657
00:41:26,137 --> 00:41:29,539
that's what everybody complains about. It's weird on my feet. I'm like, look in it. I

658
00:41:29,579 --> 00:41:32,861
remember I took my, we had some seagrass around like we were at

659
00:41:33,582 --> 00:41:38,305
a hotel in Mexico, just like on the Yucatan Peninsula. And

660
00:41:38,325 --> 00:41:41,528
I had my nephews and my daughters and they're like, oh, look at all this, like they call the

661
00:41:41,588 --> 00:41:45,090
seaweed. And I was like, no, I'm like, this is like, let's go look like grab

662
00:41:45,130 --> 00:41:48,333
your snorkels. And it was very, very shallow. It was like maybe three feet of

663
00:41:48,373 --> 00:41:51,536
water. I said, grab your snorkels. I'll take you over there and we'll go

664
00:41:51,556 --> 00:41:54,918
see if there's we can see any fish or any cool critters. The amount of stuff

665
00:41:54,958 --> 00:41:59,062
that we saw, you know, Carlos, it was phenomenal.

666
00:41:59,102 --> 00:42:02,725
The kids couldn't believe they want to go back each and every day. I'm like, just

667
00:42:02,745 --> 00:42:06,285
because it looks like a weed doesn't mean it's a weed. Just

668
00:42:06,345 --> 00:42:10,167
because it doesn't have a flower necessarily on at the time doesn't mean

669
00:42:10,287 --> 00:42:13,428
it's a weed and it's bad for it. It's great for the environment. It's

670
00:42:13,468 --> 00:42:16,909
great for biodiversity. And it was a nice little teaching lesson

671
00:42:20,570 --> 00:42:23,871
It's such an incredible ecosystem. And in the Canary

672
00:42:23,951 --> 00:42:27,693
Islands, we have the opportunity that this is the food for the green sea turtles. So

673
00:42:27,753 --> 00:42:31,034
we bring the people, and many people is

674
00:42:31,054 --> 00:42:34,395
like, wow, we need to keep the seagrass for the turtles.

675
00:42:38,057 --> 00:42:41,179
Well, and that's what it is, right? It's like you're educating the tourists that come over to

676
00:42:41,219 --> 00:42:44,922
say, hey, look, you want to see more green sea turtles or sea turtles? Let's protect

677
00:42:44,962 --> 00:42:48,204
this seagrass because that's what they come for. And they're not going to be here

678
00:42:48,624 --> 00:42:51,966
if there's no seagrass. And so if you want to come and I think

679
00:42:52,006 --> 00:42:55,308
there's a balance there, right? Where a lot of tourists, they want to go and

680
00:42:55,328 --> 00:42:59,031
they want to see the ocean. They want to see animals

681
00:42:59,071 --> 00:43:02,433
and things like that that are pretty cool. But then what happens

682
00:43:02,533 --> 00:43:06,185
is that that causes so much destruction from

683
00:43:06,245 --> 00:43:09,367
development that you don't get. And eventually, they'll just be

684
00:43:09,387 --> 00:43:12,509
like, oh, well, we're just not going to go back there, because we used to see turtles, but now we

685
00:43:12,529 --> 00:43:15,730
can't see turtles. Or we used to see fish, now we don't see as many fish. Well,

686
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:18,952
it's like, you can't have it both ways. You've got to balance it a little bit.

687
00:43:19,212 --> 00:43:22,754
There's a reason why they come by, right? Yeah. Exactly. So here, you're working

688
00:43:22,774 --> 00:43:26,136
the Canary Islands, which is kind of like a full circle moment, because you built

689
00:43:26,156 --> 00:43:29,938
the road that goes out there, the port. Now you have a conservation

690
00:43:32,259 --> 00:43:36,505
No, actually we are starting. It's a

691
00:43:36,585 --> 00:43:39,829
four-year project and it's not just the building itself. It's such

692
00:43:39,849 --> 00:43:43,254
a big collaboration with African countries. We are collaborating with

693
00:43:43,314 --> 00:43:47,339
Portugal, authorities, Madeira. The

694
00:43:47,359 --> 00:43:50,862
project, the Marine Conservation Center as a building

695
00:43:51,062 --> 00:43:54,225
is the smallest thing of the project. It's just so much action that

696
00:43:54,265 --> 00:43:58,188
we are going to do around. We are going to visit all of the schools in Tenerife. It's

697
00:43:58,208 --> 00:44:01,350
just a lot of actions that are going to come up. I went to

698
00:44:01,571 --> 00:44:06,295
one of our partners is in Senegal

699
00:44:06,315 --> 00:44:09,799
so I went to Dakar like a month ago and it blew my mind man

700
00:44:09,859 --> 00:44:13,264
like that's what I mean like when I when I think about Africa and the problems in

701
00:44:13,324 --> 00:44:16,768
Africa that's probably where marine conservation should start focusing now

702
00:44:16,828 --> 00:44:20,013
because nobody want to go there because it's hard to see what you see there

703
00:44:25,074 --> 00:44:28,476
It's really cool. I mean, I'm looking at on your site and I see

704
00:44:28,556 --> 00:44:32,239
all the different places you work, different countries, different

705
00:44:32,259 --> 00:44:35,321
places on earth, different cultures. You talk about going to

706
00:44:35,361 --> 00:44:38,724
places and wanting to work within certain places and

707
00:44:38,744 --> 00:44:43,107
doing some pretty amazing projects there. But projects that require probably

708
00:44:43,227 --> 00:44:46,409
permits and making sure you know

709
00:44:46,429 --> 00:44:50,052
the regulations and the laws in each of those places. obviously,

710
00:44:50,212 --> 00:44:54,255
you know, looking at at the site, you have people in

711
00:44:54,455 --> 00:44:57,678
in certain places, like you have a team in Costa Rica, you have a team in

712
00:44:57,738 --> 00:45:00,941
Spain, and you probably have people all around in

713
00:45:00,961 --> 00:45:04,384
the different areas that you that you have. How do

714
00:45:04,444 --> 00:45:08,388
you adapt all the different countries,

715
00:45:08,488 --> 00:45:12,111
the cultures, the laws and everything to get the projects to

716
00:45:12,151 --> 00:45:15,674
a point where you're like, okay, this especially when it comes to engineering, like,

717
00:45:16,138 --> 00:45:19,505
A lot of times it requires permitting, building an actual building, it requires

718
00:45:19,525 --> 00:45:22,591
a lot of permits and stuff. How do you adapt to

719
00:45:24,636 --> 00:45:28,077
I would say that Spain and Costa Rica are places where

720
00:45:28,117 --> 00:45:31,897
I feel comfortable with the culture, with the problems.

721
00:45:32,017 --> 00:45:35,198
I know how to handle it. But for instance, now that

722
00:45:35,218 --> 00:45:38,519
we are starting a project in Fiji, for

723
00:45:38,539 --> 00:45:41,719
me, it was very obvious. There is no way I have capacity with my

724
00:45:41,759 --> 00:45:45,300
organization to do anything here. So we partnered with the local people. And

725
00:45:45,340 --> 00:45:49,441
they are the ones who know how to do the things. So we are just providing capacity

726
00:45:49,481 --> 00:45:52,762
building. And probably, this will be more like the future of where Innocena will

727
00:45:52,802 --> 00:45:56,543
go. We'll be more focused on like finding the right communities that

728
00:45:56,563 --> 00:45:59,644
can really be supported to do what we want to

729
00:45:59,684 --> 00:46:02,885
do to support the ocean. Yeah. But

730
00:46:02,925 --> 00:46:06,926
I think, as you said, as an engineer, I have the capacity

731
00:46:06,966 --> 00:46:10,267
to really map the situations. And you

732
00:46:10,287 --> 00:46:14,328
mentioned about the permits. The permits are a pain in the ass,

733
00:46:14,348 --> 00:46:17,509
man. They're always. It's always. I suffered the

734
00:46:17,550 --> 00:46:20,931
most with all of this. But But also it's about building trust and

735
00:46:20,971 --> 00:46:24,794
when people know you, it's much easier to get. So it's just a process. Everything

736
00:46:25,655 --> 00:46:29,197
I mean, there's a reason for all of it, right? And you have to abide by

737
00:46:29,417 --> 00:46:33,040
it. But it's a lot to learn. I even know I used to work in private consulting

738
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,122
and even the laws here in Canada, I was like, oh, I have to learn this new one. Oh, I

739
00:46:36,142 --> 00:46:39,644
have to learn this new regulation. Oh, there's a change in this one. I didn't know. And it's

740
00:46:39,825 --> 00:46:43,007
always changing. And it's always so I can just imagine a number of

741
00:46:43,027 --> 00:46:46,655
different countries that you

742
00:46:48,016 --> 00:46:51,297
You can only learn what you can learn. I think

743
00:46:51,337 --> 00:46:55,338
this last 2024 is the year that my brain has a

744
00:46:55,659 --> 00:46:58,840
limit and I was like, okay, I'm touching the limit of my

745
00:46:58,860 --> 00:47:02,221
brain. But also the technology, I think, is bringing us

746
00:47:02,721 --> 00:47:06,142
interesting tools with all of this famous AI. It's

747
00:47:06,363 --> 00:47:09,664
kind of an opportunity to really have an

748
00:47:09,724 --> 00:47:13,205
extra support to increase the impact. But

749
00:47:13,285 --> 00:47:16,426
I think, I hope this goes into the good side because also you can

750
00:47:16,466 --> 00:47:19,807
increase the bad impact. So it's like how we focus the AI into

751
00:47:21,804 --> 00:47:25,508
100% and I think there's a lot of room for AI and oceans

752
00:47:26,169 --> 00:47:29,652
when we're talking a lot more people are getting into it even on the conservation side

753
00:47:30,113 --> 00:47:33,336
and Learning how to use I know I use it in my workflow all the time and

754
00:47:33,376 --> 00:47:36,540
it's it's helped so much save time and so much Yeah, it's

755
00:47:36,620 --> 00:47:39,943
it's so great. Now. I mentioned I was I was on your I'm

756
00:47:40,004 --> 00:47:43,317
on your site and I'm looking at your team and it's quite big.

757
00:47:43,638 --> 00:47:46,820
You have a global team, you have a Costa Rican team, you

758
00:47:46,860 --> 00:47:50,042
have a Spanish team, you have board members, you have collaborators, you have

759
00:47:50,102 --> 00:47:53,524
ambassadors. It's quite cool

760
00:47:53,584 --> 00:47:57,027
to see. How have you built

761
00:47:57,527 --> 00:48:01,310
such a team? First of all, how did you start

762
00:48:01,390 --> 00:48:04,512
growing the team? Like, what were you really focusing on? That'll be

763
00:48:06,613 --> 00:48:09,715
I'm glad you asked this because I remember this moment that I

764
00:48:09,735 --> 00:48:14,038
was going to Thailand, no experience in marine conservation. I

765
00:48:14,078 --> 00:48:17,380
was only one month on holiday, so I didn't know anything. But

766
00:48:18,141 --> 00:48:21,303
I've been always good at making people excited. I've

767
00:48:21,343 --> 00:48:24,825
been always good at making teams. That's kind of my biggest,

768
00:48:25,686 --> 00:48:29,769
probably my biggest capacity. And

769
00:48:29,789 --> 00:48:32,954
I remember telling to my mom that my mom has been very important in all

770
00:48:32,974 --> 00:48:36,078
this process. She has been my biggest supporter and my

771
00:48:36,118 --> 00:48:39,363
best friend. And I remember telling her, I have the

772
00:48:39,423 --> 00:48:42,487
feeling that a lot of people are going to follow this. I

773
00:48:42,527 --> 00:48:46,532
don't know why, but I have the feeling and men. That was literally what

774
00:48:46,732 --> 00:48:49,974
happened. I remember living in Thailand and I have already like five,

775
00:48:50,174 --> 00:48:53,737
no, maybe seven people that were coming to Costa Rica to help me. It

776
00:48:53,777 --> 00:48:57,039
was just a movement. So I created this wave. Do you

777
00:48:57,059 --> 00:49:00,561
remember in the film Forrest Gump that he's running and then suddenly everyone

778
00:49:03,523 --> 00:49:07,245
That's awesome. That's awesome. Now, when you hire

779
00:49:07,326 --> 00:49:10,869
someone, what do you look for in

780
00:49:10,909 --> 00:49:14,750
that person? Obviously, there's a specific skill set for each position, but

781
00:49:15,450 --> 00:49:18,931
from a personality standpoint, what do you look for? Because

782
00:49:18,991 --> 00:49:22,172
it seems like, especially in an organization like this, although you have

783
00:49:22,192 --> 00:49:25,333
a fairly large team, everybody does

784
00:49:25,353 --> 00:49:28,474
a little bit of everything at some point. What do you look for

785
00:49:30,350 --> 00:49:33,813
For me, when this has been like a big process,

786
00:49:33,833 --> 00:49:37,096
we try different ways to do this. But

787
00:49:37,416 --> 00:49:40,839
what I learned is that the most important thing in this field, and

788
00:49:40,939 --> 00:49:44,502
I'm speaking about marine conservation organizations, and maybe

789
00:49:44,542 --> 00:49:48,146
this applies to startups, because startups could be also a similar environment.

790
00:49:48,366 --> 00:49:52,311
Yeah, for sure. flexibility, people who are flexible, people

791
00:49:52,391 --> 00:49:55,415
who are able to change their mind and if there is a

792
00:49:55,475 --> 00:49:58,680
change in the plan they will adapt and they will continue in

793
00:49:58,700 --> 00:50:02,205
the other way like efficiently. I think that's the biggest and

794
00:50:02,245 --> 00:50:05,630
of course people who just love the ocean and are passionate.

795
00:50:06,070 --> 00:50:09,132
Those are the two main requirements. I don't care then if he's a

796
00:50:09,172 --> 00:50:12,354
marine biologist or if he's a lawyer or if he's nothing. He

797
00:50:12,495 --> 00:50:16,217
didn't go to university, but he's very good at doing surveys, whatever.

798
00:50:16,237 --> 00:50:19,920
It's just about the passion and it's about the flexibility. Those

799
00:50:19,980 --> 00:50:23,422
are the two. I would say maybe this is obvious,

800
00:50:23,862 --> 00:50:27,005
but maybe it's not as obvious in the world we live. It's

801
00:50:27,025 --> 00:50:30,287
somebody with the values. The values are so important. Like, I

802
00:50:30,327 --> 00:50:33,449
want to build this organization. from the foundations of

803
00:50:33,509 --> 00:50:36,650
Innocent Art with strong values. So we want people with

804
00:50:36,690 --> 00:50:41,273
big moral and people with values.

805
00:50:41,813 --> 00:50:45,134
And sadly, in the world we live, we even

806
00:50:45,174 --> 00:50:48,956
have presidents that don't have values. And it's not that obvious, this attribute.

807
00:50:49,597 --> 00:50:53,264
Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. I think You

808
00:50:53,304 --> 00:50:56,588
have to have that passion. You have to have that ethics. You have to ask the question,

809
00:50:57,209 --> 00:51:00,353
even if we do this and we can make, whether it be money or make a

810
00:51:00,373 --> 00:51:03,757
lot of press, is this really worth it? Is this really

811
00:51:03,777 --> 00:51:07,622
going to help the overall ocean when we come

812
00:51:10,618 --> 00:51:13,920
Yeah, well, you mentioned ethics, and we are not religious people. This

813
00:51:13,980 --> 00:51:17,422
is not about going to the church. No, no, no, no. Our

814
00:51:17,502 --> 00:51:21,105
church, our cathedral is the ocean, and we go there. That's

815
00:51:21,145 --> 00:51:24,947
the place where I pray. I remember having a podcast with the

816
00:51:24,967 --> 00:51:28,229
religion podcast of Spain that I said yes, and they were like, okay,

817
00:51:28,249 --> 00:51:31,631
I don't care about religion, but let's do it. And I told them, my cathedral is

818
00:51:35,213 --> 00:51:38,836
That's not a bad life. That's not a bad life at all to

819
00:51:38,896 --> 00:51:41,999
have that. That's phenomenal. Is

820
00:51:42,019 --> 00:51:45,802
there anything you want, like as we kind of end this interview, is

821
00:51:45,822 --> 00:51:49,105
there anything you want people to know about InuOceana that they may

822
00:51:49,165 --> 00:51:52,548
not have known already? We covered a lot of subjects and a lot of topics and

823
00:51:52,868 --> 00:51:56,091
love to have you back on to discuss more in depth and certain of

824
00:51:56,111 --> 00:52:00,014
the projects, but what would you like them to know about InuOceana

825
00:52:02,935 --> 00:52:06,277
I just, maybe one thing that is important is that here in Costa Rica and

826
00:52:06,317 --> 00:52:10,079
in Spain, we have a team of amazing people that they can come

827
00:52:10,099 --> 00:52:13,562
and visit. For instance, here in Costa Rica, we have a big building.

828
00:52:13,602 --> 00:52:16,724
We even have place for people to stay. And we are constantly looking for

829
00:52:16,784 --> 00:52:19,986
collaborators. So for instance, like three days ago, there was

830
00:52:20,406 --> 00:52:24,188
this woman that sent me a message. Hey, I saw in Oceana and I'm a photographer. There

831
00:52:24,208 --> 00:52:27,370
is something I can do for you guys. And she's just, I'm going to pick her up in

832
00:52:27,390 --> 00:52:30,532
the next village, like in a few hours. So she's staying here with us and

833
00:52:30,552 --> 00:52:34,075
she's coming to the ocean. Maybe my message is like, go

834
00:52:34,175 --> 00:52:37,378
to our website, have a look at where we are, and if you are around, and you love

835
00:52:37,418 --> 00:52:40,581
the ocean, and you are flexible, and you have the ethics, go

836
00:52:43,504 --> 00:52:47,507
I love it. I think that is absolutely fantastic. Carlos,

837
00:52:47,648 --> 00:52:50,871
thank you so much for coming on the podcast, letting us know, and thank

838
00:52:50,891 --> 00:52:54,014
you for what you've done. I think you've helped out And you're going to

839
00:52:54,034 --> 00:52:57,458
continue to help out a number of different coastal

840
00:52:57,498 --> 00:53:01,062
communities, local communities, the ocean in general.

841
00:53:01,663 --> 00:53:05,127
And it's people like you that we need more of and people like people

842
00:53:05,167 --> 00:53:08,351
on your team and stuff. I think that's really fantastic. And

843
00:53:08,431 --> 00:53:11,854
I love You know, it's a little bit of innovation for the ocean.

844
00:53:11,974 --> 00:53:15,756
I love that. And the name is fantastic. The organization looks

845
00:53:15,856 --> 00:53:18,939
phenomenal and the work you're doing is awesome. So thank you so much. And

846
00:53:18,999 --> 00:53:22,601
again, I'd love to invite you back on to talk more about specific projects

847
00:53:24,102 --> 00:53:27,284
Whenever, Andrew, whenever you want. Thank you for inviting me this time. It

848
00:53:29,686 --> 00:53:32,928
Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Carlos, for joining

849
00:53:32,968 --> 00:53:36,689
me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. That

850
00:53:36,729 --> 00:53:40,271
was awesome. Let's just be honest. That was phenomenal. I

851
00:53:40,431 --> 00:53:43,533
feel so hyped up right now. You

852
00:53:43,573 --> 00:53:46,754
know, I feel like I want to do more. That's what

853
00:53:46,794 --> 00:53:50,196
happens when you start to talk to people who are so passionate about the ocean

854
00:53:50,476 --> 00:53:54,489
and build teams that are passionate about the ocean. It

855
00:53:54,529 --> 00:53:57,714
just it becomes infectious in a good

856
00:53:57,754 --> 00:54:01,419
way. Right. It becomes just it just transfers from

857
00:54:01,459 --> 00:54:04,984
individual to individual. And this is what we need. We need people

858
00:54:05,285 --> 00:54:08,409
to be inspired to take action. And Carlos and

859
00:54:08,489 --> 00:54:11,613
Inociana does that. And I'm super proud. that I had him on

860
00:54:11,633 --> 00:54:15,036
the podcast. I'm very, very thankful for Roxanne, one of his colleagues to

861
00:54:15,116 --> 00:54:18,358
reach out and suggest that Carlos comes on

862
00:54:18,938 --> 00:54:22,440
because it's not gonna be the last time you hear from him or any of his staff. We're

863
00:54:22,460 --> 00:54:25,903
gonna have him on and we're gonna talk more about specific projects

864
00:54:25,923 --> 00:54:29,165
that they're going in. We're gonna dive deep into those projects. There are people who

865
00:54:29,205 --> 00:54:32,527
are doing unbelievable things in and around the ocean.

866
00:54:33,067 --> 00:54:36,409
And I feel like this is a podcast where you can find out where

867
00:54:36,449 --> 00:54:40,752
those people are and what they're doing. And I'm gonna have more people on in 2025. to

868
00:54:40,792 --> 00:54:44,115
be able to discuss those types of things. And I think it's really important that

869
00:54:44,195 --> 00:54:47,939
you subscribe, and you hit the like button, and the notification button

870
00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:51,542
on YouTube, and on Spotify, and on Apple Podcasts, and

871
00:54:51,582 --> 00:54:55,326
you watch or listen, however you consume this show, you

872
00:54:55,366 --> 00:54:58,608
can do that. Super simple. The technology is there

873
00:54:58,668 --> 00:55:02,490
for you. All you have to do is just enjoy the episodes, continue

874
00:55:02,510 --> 00:55:05,592
to listen and share with a friend. And if you want to get ahold of

875
00:55:05,632 --> 00:55:09,154
me and ask me questions, or you are working on a project that has

876
00:55:09,194 --> 00:55:12,416
to do with the ocean and conserving the ocean, and you're really excited about

877
00:55:12,436 --> 00:55:15,698
it, hit me up on Instagram, DM me at how

878
00:55:15,738 --> 00:55:18,879
to protect the ocean. That's at how to protect the ocean. And

879
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,161
until next time, I want to thank Carlos for being on the podcast. I

880
00:55:22,181 --> 00:55:25,506
want to thank you for listening. to this podcast or watching this podcast, wherever

881
00:55:25,526 --> 00:55:28,691
you're doing it from. All the links are in the description below or in the

882
00:55:28,751 --> 00:55:32,096
show notes. And I want to thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of

883
00:55:32,116 --> 00:55:35,281
the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. We'll talk to