Mind Your Plastic Pollution: A Conversation On Changing Behaviors

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Today's episode is all about plastic pollution. Not only in

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the ocean, but also on land and how we deal with it as

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regular citizens of whatever country you're part of. We are enthralled in

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a plastic world. Plastic is everywhere. It's in our drinking containers.

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It's in our coffees. It's in our bodies. It's

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in our lungs. It's in our air molecules. It's everywhere. It's

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all in our oceans. and there are although there are ways

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to try and get them out at scale we still don't

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have a way to extract plastic from the

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ocean and we don't really have a way to stop it

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at this point we know what we need to do but to try and

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get plastic out of our oceans and try to get plastic out of

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our environment is very very difficult right now there's a global plastic treaty

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that's being negotiated at this point in time there's a fifth

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meeting that was just happened in South Korea it didn't go very well just

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like the Ottawa one in the summer did not go very well why because

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the oil and gas companies sent their lobbyists to the

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negotiations to derail them and they were pretty

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much successful to the point where now a lot of the countries are

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demanding voluntary standards like voluntary benchmarks, and

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that's just not going to work. So I wanted to have a conversation with

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someone who was involved in plastics. And so Natasha Tucker, who's

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been on the podcast before, friend of the podcast from Mind Your Plastic in

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Canada, decided, hey, you know what? Let's have a conversation. She wanted to

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give me updates about Mind Your Plastic. She wanted to talk about some of

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our programs. But we basically just had a general conversation on

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plastic pollution in general and how to deal with it. We talked a lot about

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what's happening in Canada. We talk a lot about what's happening in the world and

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how we are all just reacting to the changes that are

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needed to be met and how people aren't very good at changing their habits.

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We just know that. And that's just something that we need to talk about. So

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that's what we're going to talk about on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's

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start the show. Hey

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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I

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am your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how

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you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by

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taking action. And on today's episode, we're gonna be talking all about

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plastic pollution, how it affects our bodies, how it affects our oceans, how

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it affects our water bodies, and how it affects our environment in general.

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And I'm gonna tell you right now, It's not good. It's not affecting us

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in very positive ways. Except if you own a

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company that produces plastic, you're making a ton of money. That's

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really what it comes down to making money. We have a lot of conversation about

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today with Natasha Tucker, who is the executive director of

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Mind Your Plastic. It's a Canadian charity that

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talks about getting rid or that works with a

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variety of different people to get rid of

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plastic in Canada. And not necessarily just get rid of like an

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all out ban, but work with companies and work with restaurants

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and manufacturers and offices and people all

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around Canada to reduce and refuse the use

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of plastic pollution. She's got a great story, a great sort

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of foundation. She's been on the podcast before, but she's got a great origin

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story of how she became involved in plastic. She wasn't a

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scientist, She's a business person, she was in retail, and

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she basically decided to like at one point in

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her life she realized that plastic pollution was a huge problem,

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got more inspired by picking up plastic pollution on beaches

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in Vancouver, and then eventually started up an

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organization that eventually became Mind Your Plastic here in

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Canada. We talked to her about all things plastic, how

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it influences our bodies, how it influences the environment, and how we

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can stop it through policies and education. And I think it's

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really, really interesting. There's a lot of stories that she brings up, bringing

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a crew of about 20 people to pick up plastic pollution and

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just pollution and do a beach cleanup in Cherry Beach in Toronto,

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which you would think wouldn't be that bad, Yeah, it was just

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as bad. And we talked a little bit about where that source comes from,

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how to clean up, how to educate, and how to stop that from happening.

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Just a lot of just interesting conversation on plastic and where we

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are today within our plastic world, really,

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is what it really comes out. I feel like there's a documentary to be made about

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plastic, and I'm sure there's been some that have been made. I

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know there have been some that have been made and some that are on the way, but

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we really need something to really show what

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we're doing to our planet with this plastic revolution, and

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we really need to revolt against the use of most plastics. But

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with that said, I interviewed Natasha. It was a great conversation. It was a

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little longer than normal, so buckle up. It's a lot of fun, and

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Natasha was fantastic. Looking forward to having her back. Here's the interview with

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Natasha Tucker, Executive Director of Mind Your Plastic here in Canada.

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Enjoy the interview, and I will talk to you Hey, Natasha, welcome back to

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the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about plastics and

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No problem. Thank you for coming back. I'm excited

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for this interview. I'm excited for all my interviews, but I'm excited for this interview because this

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is kind of like an update on plastics, not only in

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our oceans, but in Canada. We've seen a lot done in

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Canada. And you were here in 2022 when some of the stuff was

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still being passed or still being discussed in the Canadian government.

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And since then, the federal government has passed sort of like a

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plastics framework, and then they put

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in a law for specific plastics to be banned.

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That has been challenged, that has been won in court, and now it's

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being appealed at this point. I don't know the response

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to that appeal. I'm not sure if that's still ongoing. Maybe we can get into it today. But

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then there's also been the plastics treaty that, you know, I haven't discussed in

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a little bit. The fifth meeting was done in South

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Korea just recently. So getting an update on that, but just getting an

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update on your organization, because things have changed. And

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just a whole bunch of things on plastics. Plastics, people want to know. We

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are engaged with plastics every single day of our lives. And

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it's always good to find out more about it and how we can not only

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reduce our uses, but refuse our uses as well. So

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welcome again, Natasha. And for the people who haven't

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heard the last episode you were on, can you just remind them of who you are

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Absolutely. So my name is Natasha Tucker and I'm the executive director of

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Mind Your Plastic and Mind Your Plastic is a registered Canadian charity.

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We're focused on eliminating plastic pollution and how we

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do that is really through preventative measures. So we

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like to use the analogy of if your bathtub was overflowing with

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water, what would you do? Would you grab a mop and

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start cleaning it up or would you turn off that tap? We

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like to turn off that tap. So what we tend to focus on is how

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we can prevent plastic pollution from getting into our environment through

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advocating for stronger policies and regulations on plastic production and

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plastic use, finding those true alternatives for a

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circular economy, and of course, making sure that folks are educated about

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That's obviously a great mission. How did

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And this is Oscar, my office assistant. Hi, Oscar. How are you, buddy? He's a

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little shy. He actually just won our team holiday

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party. We had a who was the best dressed. Nice. And

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You were like, hey, I'm worried about my cat coming out. I'm like, this is a pet friendly

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podcast. We love it. There's a video now out for this so that people

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Yeah, anyone who's ever been on a call with me knows that Oscar always makes

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Absolutely. He's part of Mind Your Plastic. He's

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very concerned and so he wants to help out. Speaking of

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which, how did your journey start,

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you know, with plastics and sort of your knowledge

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of plastics and understanding the impact it has on not only our

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ocean's health and our land health, but also on our

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Yeah. Uh, it's, it's such a long and winding road to how I got here.

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You know, my, my background is, is in business management and

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procurement and a lot of, a lot of time spent, uh,

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in my early career in, in retail and management. And,

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uh, I remember back many, many years ago, having the

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opportunity to move from where I was on the

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East to the West and working with a big store.

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You might've heard of it called Target. There was that Target Canada expansion that

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happened. I was fortunate enough to be a part of that. And

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then thankfully I was not a part of it during the

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end of it. However, you know, through my time, I remember

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moving to Vancouver and, you know, having

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been from the coast, I'm aware of the

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ocean, but I was never really that Yeah you know i appreciated it

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but didn't know a lot about it and wasn't that well connected to

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it and i went to vancouver and one of the first things i did when i

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got there was i went to the aquarium cuz i wanted to really have

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that opportunity to get to a level with some of these really. Amazing charismatic

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creatures that you always hear about and it was really through my

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first visit there i walked in was like i. never

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want to leave here cause it's just so fascinating. Um, but

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it was really, you know, what, what got me invested in this was

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one of the animals that was there at the time was a rescued Pacific white-sided

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dolphin. And her name was Helen. And she was a lot different

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than, you know, the regular dolphins that you would see. Um, because

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she was actually there because she was rescued, um, from

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Japan where she was caught in fixed fishing nets. And

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as a result of that, she actually had

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her pectoral fins. partially amputated. So as

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a result of human activities and us,

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she was actually deemed to live a life in human care and in

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captivity. And that really, really struck a nerve for me. And

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really, it was through that time there, I never really left

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the aquarium. I started volunteering, started volunteering with the

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Marine Mammal Rescue Center and really becoming obsessed with human

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impacts and what we've done to the aquatic environment

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and the environment in general. And through

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my time volunteering with the aquarium, seeing how you know,

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sea lions off of the west coast of Vancouver Island are getting entangled

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in the packing straps around their necks. And to me, that was just such

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a stark, stark moment to realize how

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we impact the environment. And but at the same time,

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recognizing my background of being retail, and it's very a

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different shift to go from that world into conservation. And

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You know, it was really that opportunity through my time working with

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the aquarium to really take some of these very complex,

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nuanced conversation topics and really make them accessible for

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the general public, to make it impactful for them and

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to make them walk out of there feeling like they're going to do something

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differently because of what they saw, much like my experience. So

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that was really where it all started for me. And and, you

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know, even through my time there, becoming more aware of human impacts Again,

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more often than not, they're completely unintentional, but

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can be so, so impactful to the environment around

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us. And even I found myself on my lunch breaks because

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I wanted to do something. So outside of the education, what

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I found myself doing was going to the beach every day on

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my lunch break because I was so fortunate to have that as my, you

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know, office. And cleaning up. you

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know, debris. Every day on the same beach, I would pick

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up styrofoam and then other consumer garbage and things that

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were just being washed up. And that just really got me just

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inspired by just how much work there is to do here and

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just wanting others to join me in that. And through that long and

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winding road, just found myself, you know, in

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this position where, you know, we're able to influence

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the change outside of, again, just that mopping up

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the spill, if you will, from your overflowing bathtub into really influencing

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the change that needs to happen outside of the cleanup.

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So those are obviously incredibly important, but there's

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more to it than just that. So that's how we

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And why was it a beach cleanup that really, that was

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your action? You know, there's a lot of problems in the ocean. You know, we have overfishing, we

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have climate change, you know, what made

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you in particular, like, I think I have an idea, but what made you

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in particular choose, you know what, I'm going to clean this

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You know what, it was something I felt I could do. You know, it

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was accessible. And again, you hear more often than not, you

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know, there's a lot of folks out there trying to solve these

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issues. You know, there's so much research happening and

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the impacts and recognizing that my background isn't

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that super strong when it comes to the academics. It's not strong when it comes to

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biology or animal care. But you know what? This is

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something I can do. I can clean up. I can pick

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stuff up on the way. And I can also inspire others because they're

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asking me why I'm doing this. They're asking me what I'm doing. And hopefully,

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that's inspiring them to get involved. And

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again, it's just that That gateway, in a way, and

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that's what I really found for me as well as for other folks who did get involved.

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You know, we know that cleaning up isn't going to solve the problem, but

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it is that awareness that when you get to clean up

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and you see you're picking up a lot of here

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in Nova Scotia, a lot of Tim Hortons cups or a lot of Starbucks cups,

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a lot of cigarette butts, a lot of the same, so many

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cigarette butts, and a lot of the same items that you're seeing. So

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not only are you cleaning that up, but then after a while you

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start to think, Well, I'm still picking up the same thing.

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And it's not really changing. It's not changing my consumption habits. And

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realistically, you start to realize, well, the more I use, it's

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very likely I'm going to be picking up my own garbage in a

231
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few years or a few months, few days, whatever it might be. It's all

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going to end up here at some point if we're not smart

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about it. How can that then turn into

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creating bigger action that, of course, the cleanups are important, but

235
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then it starts to spiral into that awareness piece

236
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of, oh, you know what? Maybe I'll skip the straw today, or maybe I'll skip the Tim Hortons

237
00:14:37,208 --> 00:14:42,131
cup, and I'll bring my own cup today. So

238
00:14:42,271 --> 00:14:46,374
it's an accessible action that you can do. It's more

239
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than just the cleaning up activity. It's really what it helps teach

240
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Yeah, 100%. I completely agree. I'm glad

241
00:14:56,352 --> 00:14:59,835
you told us that story in terms of sort of how you

242
00:14:59,915 --> 00:15:03,698
got into cleaning up beaches. Obviously, it's

243
00:15:03,778 --> 00:15:07,181
a thankless job at times, but it obviously inspired you

244
00:15:07,642 --> 00:15:11,905
to change your entire direction of your career, which is huge. big

245
00:15:12,025 --> 00:15:15,688
pivot, you know, and that takes

246
00:15:15,728 --> 00:15:19,131
a lot of guts to do. How did you pivot? Like

247
00:15:19,171 --> 00:15:22,593
what made you decide? And then what made you, did you go right

248
00:15:22,693 --> 00:15:26,296
to, obviously not Mind Your Plastics, but like

249
00:15:27,818 --> 00:15:31,299
Yeah, well, honestly, so I mentioned, you know, I was in

250
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Vancouver, working for Target. And I

251
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remember when it started to shift for me, it's very, very stark. I

252
00:15:38,382 --> 00:15:41,684
remember helping to open up the store. And for those who

253
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are in Vancouver, the Metrotown location, which is one of the biggest locations

254
00:15:45,867 --> 00:15:49,271
that was opened up. And I remember being a part of the

255
00:15:49,291 --> 00:15:52,475
assembly team. We got all the fixtures into the store. We had

256
00:15:52,615 --> 00:15:56,399
everything ready to go, and it was a well-organized plan. And

257
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then I remember we had everything set up. And, you

258
00:15:59,983 --> 00:16:03,587
know, I would have thought that from a from

259
00:16:03,627 --> 00:16:07,391
a planning standpoint, that we would only get the fixtures that

260
00:16:07,431 --> 00:16:11,215
we need. Or you might get a few extra to accommodate if

261
00:16:11,235 --> 00:16:14,921
there's something missing or errors or whatnot. Not the case. We

262
00:16:15,001 --> 00:16:18,543
had excessive amounts of fixtures left over.

263
00:16:18,883 --> 00:16:22,105
So not only are these fixtures big pieces of

264
00:16:22,165 --> 00:16:25,327
metal, but they're all wrapped in plastic. They're all wrapped in styrofoam. There's all this

265
00:16:25,347 --> 00:16:28,549
stuff. And when I asked, what are we doing with those? And this

266
00:16:28,609 --> 00:16:31,831
is, again, not from a perspective of waste management at

267
00:16:31,871 --> 00:16:36,171
that point and reduction. This is just me being curious. They're

268
00:16:36,191 --> 00:16:39,915
just all getting thrown out. They're not going to a centralized location to be redistributed.

269
00:16:40,315 --> 00:16:43,518
They're just getting thrown out, is what I was told. And to me,

270
00:16:43,578 --> 00:16:47,342
I'm like, that is so wasteful, not only from a business standpoint,

271
00:16:47,382 --> 00:16:50,985
the money, but more importantly, just the

272
00:16:51,045 --> 00:16:55,319
resources that were put into that. What a concept and

273
00:16:55,439 --> 00:16:58,980
so that was a really really interesting moment and then through my time working in

274
00:16:59,020 --> 00:17:02,221
big box that was my first experience in big box and

275
00:17:02,681 --> 00:17:05,822
seeing the waste of you know you have something that is

276
00:17:05,882 --> 00:17:09,200
expired by a day. Maybe we

277
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,481
could give it to people who need it, or in corporate world,

278
00:17:12,521 --> 00:17:15,883
we just throw it out because it's a liability to give food away.

279
00:17:15,963 --> 00:17:19,464
And I just remember seeing trucks of food just

280
00:17:19,484 --> 00:17:23,266
being thrown out, perfectly good food, and packaging too,

281
00:17:23,306 --> 00:17:26,467
of course, right? Perfectly good items that just

282
00:17:26,507 --> 00:17:29,908
weren't Valuable to hold up shelf space

283
00:17:30,368 --> 00:17:33,550
so to me that was really a moment where. You

284
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:36,791
know i started thinking about it a little bit more and then as i mentioned through

285
00:17:36,831 --> 00:17:40,233
my time volunteering at the aquarium it was just so apparent

286
00:17:40,273 --> 00:17:44,015
to me that there's more to what i need to do then

287
00:17:44,035 --> 00:17:47,207
to. sell stuff for a

288
00:17:47,247 --> 00:17:51,472
big box store. There's no disrespect

289
00:17:51,512 --> 00:17:55,136
or discredit to whoever is doing that. It's

290
00:17:55,196 --> 00:17:58,480
needed, but that's not where I'm needed, and

291
00:17:58,580 --> 00:18:01,744
that's not where I want to continue to grow. And again, thinking of my

292
00:18:01,784 --> 00:18:05,125
background being in buying and logistics, and I'm like, This just

293
00:18:05,145 --> 00:18:08,368
seems backwards. So, so yeah,

294
00:18:08,388 --> 00:18:11,730
transitioning to my time at the aquarium and, and, again,

295
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:15,052
that was so impactful for me because not only was

296
00:18:15,112 --> 00:18:18,294
it just, you know, working with the visitors and being

297
00:18:18,334 --> 00:18:22,221
able to engage folks from, you know, child,

298
00:18:22,261 --> 00:18:25,424
you know, little ages, all the way up to folks who have, you

299
00:18:25,464 --> 00:18:30,050
know, been around this type of stuff their whole lives, but they're still learning something new. And

300
00:18:30,210 --> 00:18:33,594
that was so impactful. But then, you know, a

301
00:18:33,654 --> 00:18:37,386
few years after working at the Aquarium, being in Vancouver, Being

302
00:18:37,466 --> 00:18:40,887
from the East Coast, it called me back. There's

303
00:18:41,267 --> 00:18:44,688
no aquariums here in Halifax, so it wasn't really

304
00:18:44,708 --> 00:18:48,049
an easy transition back. So I found myself back in the retail

305
00:18:48,069 --> 00:18:51,311
world. Instead of big box, I

306
00:18:51,391 --> 00:18:54,612
found myself at a Starbucks where I started

307
00:18:54,652 --> 00:18:58,454
working as a manager. The intent with that was, you

308
00:18:58,474 --> 00:19:01,617
know, I was thinking, well, you know, I have the sustainability mindset. I

309
00:19:01,657 --> 00:19:04,961
have this reduction. I've been a part of so many great programs and

310
00:19:06,502 --> 00:19:11,708
initiatives at the aquarium, including banning plastic bottles at the facility. you

311
00:19:11,748 --> 00:19:16,312
know, what can be done here from the inside within Starbucks? And

312
00:19:16,933 --> 00:19:21,717
what I learned is, you know, it was a great learning opportunity to

313
00:19:21,817 --> 00:19:25,260
see what a big corporation like that could do, and

314
00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:29,531
what's possible, and what happens you

315
00:19:29,571 --> 00:19:32,815
know, when they could do something and they're not. You know, so

316
00:19:32,855 --> 00:19:36,500
through my time there, it was really interesting to see what was available

317
00:19:36,580 --> 00:19:40,925
to the stores in terms of what's

318
00:19:40,985 --> 00:19:44,229
possible. And one thing I'd started there was

319
00:19:44,350 --> 00:19:48,333
a A sustainability group in my district and

320
00:19:48,814 --> 00:19:51,936
having this perspective of how harmful plastic is not only for

321
00:19:51,976 --> 00:19:55,139
the environment, but like. For humans, yeah, I don't

322
00:19:55,179 --> 00:19:58,702
really want to be drinking hot liquids out of plastic lined cups. We'll probably

323
00:19:58,742 --> 00:20:01,904
get into that later, but plastic soup. No,

324
00:20:01,944 --> 00:20:05,407
thank you. Um, so some initiatives we started in store

325
00:20:05,647 --> 00:20:09,550
were just, again, you know, those little green sticks, you don't need them. Uh,

326
00:20:09,831 --> 00:20:13,113
and, and again, starting even not even getting rid of things, but

327
00:20:13,153 --> 00:20:16,336
just the simple language change of, Hey, Andrew,

328
00:20:16,376 --> 00:20:19,457
would you like that coffee for here? Yeah and they say yep and i'm

329
00:20:19,497 --> 00:20:23,018
like great instant mug yeah hey andrew do you want that sandwich for

330
00:20:23,078 --> 00:20:26,759
here instant plate fork and knife real no.

331
00:20:27,439 --> 00:20:30,540
Wouldn't stuff cuz who likes that anyways right who don't you want to eat

332
00:20:30,580 --> 00:20:33,801
with a regular fork and knife right so those are some of the little things that

333
00:20:33,841 --> 00:20:37,042
we started and it worked so well and i stopped spending my story money

334
00:20:37,102 --> 00:20:40,366
on. garbage that was costing me money,

335
00:20:40,466 --> 00:20:44,251
right? So yeah, so really that was my

336
00:20:44,311 --> 00:20:48,557
most recent experience before finding Mind Your Plastic and really

337
00:20:49,178 --> 00:20:52,622
having this opportunity to not only affect change from the inside from one store

338
00:20:55,133 --> 00:20:58,355
So it's been a- Sorry to interrupt, but this is interesting too, because from

339
00:20:58,395 --> 00:21:01,898
a Starbucks point of view, a lot of people look at Starbucks back

340
00:21:01,978 --> 00:21:05,381
in the 2010s and so forth, they were

341
00:21:05,681 --> 00:21:08,803
known to be progressive. They wanted to reduce, they had it

342
00:21:08,843 --> 00:21:12,306
in their mission, their overall corporate mission to reduce plastics, to

343
00:21:13,246 --> 00:21:16,389
get more sustainable. They came out, they're from the West Coast, they're

344
00:21:16,409 --> 00:21:19,851
from Seattle area. They're They just want it

345
00:21:19,871 --> 00:21:23,012
to be more environmentally friendly. At some point, though, they started to

346
00:21:23,072 --> 00:21:27,154
take all of that out, that language out of their corporate policies. So

347
00:21:27,274 --> 00:21:30,516
it's interesting to hear that managers can make that

348
00:21:30,576 --> 00:21:33,917
difference without changing up a lot, necessarily, where you're

349
00:21:34,238 --> 00:21:37,859
maybe ruffling some feathers for that area. But

350
00:21:37,879 --> 00:21:41,241
you're asking simple questions. A lot of people do stay in store

351
00:21:41,321 --> 00:21:44,603
to drink their coffees or to have their their bagels or

352
00:21:44,644 --> 00:21:48,229
their sandwiches or what have you, and they will tend

353
00:21:48,269 --> 00:21:51,454
to use plates or mugs. Like you said, it's nicer to

354
00:21:51,514 --> 00:21:54,959
have, it's nicer to drink out of, it's nicer to use

355
00:21:54,979 --> 00:21:58,844
rather than a paper plate or plastic or anything like that. I

356
00:21:58,884 --> 00:22:02,246
like that idea of just changing the language without even

357
00:22:02,847 --> 00:22:06,489
making it such a big deal. It's just more of like, hey, let's foster

358
00:22:06,509 --> 00:22:09,671
a community here. Do you want to stay? Exactly. Oh, great. Here you

359
00:22:09,691 --> 00:22:12,853
go. That's really great. And I can imagine people up

360
00:22:12,933 --> 00:22:16,276
top, the offices are probably like, they don't

361
00:22:16,296 --> 00:22:19,358
even know about it. They're just like, oh, OK, this is great. I

362
00:22:19,418 --> 00:22:23,880
really like that idea because I have a very negative

363
00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:27,102
sort of thought process when it comes to Starbucks because of so much plastics and

364
00:22:27,122 --> 00:22:30,964
because of the changes that they've made to almost double down on

365
00:22:31,024 --> 00:22:34,265
plastic containers. But I like the fact that managers can make

366
00:22:34,305 --> 00:22:38,447
that difference. All it needs is a little bit of that

367
00:22:38,807 --> 00:22:42,669
education to get there. And you mentioned in their district, so

368
00:22:42,809 --> 00:22:46,071
was it just the one store or did you get together with other stores, like

369
00:22:47,686 --> 00:22:50,829
Yeah, so what I was empowered by my district, which

370
00:22:50,869 --> 00:22:54,272
was really, really fantastic. I don't know that that's going to be the same story

371
00:22:54,312 --> 00:22:57,714
for others. However, for me, I was empowered to

372
00:22:58,315 --> 00:23:01,858
take this on because the managers or the district leaders

373
00:23:01,918 --> 00:23:05,021
knew that this was very important to me. And it was ultimately what was

374
00:23:05,061 --> 00:23:08,203
keeping me there was that opportunity because for me, I

375
00:23:08,243 --> 00:23:12,765
can be a manager somewhere, but what's important is really affecting change.

376
00:23:13,025 --> 00:23:16,227
So I was fortunate to be able to rally everyone in

377
00:23:16,267 --> 00:23:19,809
our district to have a sustainability lead at each store. And

378
00:23:19,869 --> 00:23:23,290
so each store had an appointed person who was similar

379
00:23:23,310 --> 00:23:27,192
to myself. It didn't have to be a store manager. It could be a really engaged barista

380
00:23:27,272 --> 00:23:30,774
who just wanted to be a part of making a difference. So it

381
00:23:30,794 --> 00:23:34,315
was really lovely to have that opportunity to get together. and then COVID

382
00:23:34,355 --> 00:23:37,677
happened. So we had about two or three, we had

383
00:23:37,697 --> 00:23:40,938
about two or three meetings with everyone where we talked about ways to make our

384
00:23:40,978 --> 00:23:44,580
stores more sustainable and again, to promote

385
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,001
that reusability, or at least for here, where that better

386
00:23:48,061 --> 00:23:51,762
experience, frankly, to what you mentioned. And

387
00:23:52,443 --> 00:23:55,684
yeah, and then COVID happened and obviously then the world

388
00:23:58,585 --> 00:24:02,027
Yeah. Sustainability. You know, it was interesting with COVID because

389
00:24:02,067 --> 00:24:05,581
we got a better environment just because less people.

390
00:24:05,601 --> 00:24:09,258
Yeah. But we also got

391
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,719
worse in the fact that we started using less reusable items. It

392
00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:16,580
was more one-off, single-use, like let's pollute

393
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,581
Yeah, it was so damaging for the reuse movement.

394
00:24:20,601 --> 00:24:23,942
Because again, I even think of those times you couldn't even

395
00:24:23,982 --> 00:24:27,422
bring your own reusable bag to the grocery store.

396
00:24:28,283 --> 00:24:31,683
So we went back a couple of years. But

397
00:24:37,038 --> 00:24:41,002
There is a bit of a movement to encourage

398
00:24:41,042 --> 00:24:44,985
people to get back to where we were before because people

399
00:24:45,025 --> 00:24:48,428
are still in that COVID mindset. A lot of people have

400
00:24:48,469 --> 00:24:51,731
gone to, if I just think of daily things that

401
00:24:52,032 --> 00:24:55,275
we did or that I know people have done and continue to do, we

402
00:24:55,315 --> 00:24:58,758
don't do this anymore, but people still get their groceries delivered. And when you get your groceries

403
00:24:58,778 --> 00:25:01,961
delivered, a lot of the times they come in plastic bags. So all

404
00:25:02,001 --> 00:25:05,324
that work to get rid of the single-use plastic bag for groceries has

405
00:25:05,364 --> 00:25:08,507
kind of gone reversal in that. And I'm sure, I don't know what the

406
00:25:08,547 --> 00:25:11,990
statistics are, but I'm sure that has increased compared to

407
00:25:12,030 --> 00:25:15,253
before COVID. People realize it's more convenient. It's

408
00:25:15,273 --> 00:25:18,476
a little bit more expensive, but it's more convenient and they get what they want and

409
00:25:18,496 --> 00:25:21,839
they can still do other things without growing. going to the grocery store.

410
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,522
So yeah, so there's that. So that's one sort of example that

411
00:25:26,582 --> 00:25:29,744
has come up that where it's like, oh yeah, well, we still need

412
00:25:29,784 --> 00:25:32,906
to get out of that mindset that we can use reusable things. I

413
00:25:32,926 --> 00:25:36,308
think that's really interesting. Okay, so

414
00:25:36,428 --> 00:25:40,211
Mind Your Plastic comes into play. You start

415
00:25:40,271 --> 00:25:44,153
Mind Your Plastic, but it wasn't always Mind Your Plastic. That's been

416
00:25:44,213 --> 00:25:47,375
a recent thing. So can you just kind of tell us a little bit the changes that

417
00:25:49,321 --> 00:25:52,944
Sure, yeah. So I mean, the last time you and I spoke back in 2022, which

418
00:25:53,004 --> 00:25:56,447
is crazy. So

419
00:25:56,467 --> 00:25:59,950
when we spoke last, we were actually, we had a different name as an organization. And

420
00:26:00,371 --> 00:26:04,094
at that time, we were very focused on the impact

421
00:26:04,114 --> 00:26:07,637
of plastic in our oceans. And the organization's focus

422
00:26:07,657 --> 00:26:10,940
there was aligned very much with an international organization that had

423
00:26:11,380 --> 00:26:15,802
a few different locations that were promoting similar

424
00:26:15,862 --> 00:26:19,164
work. And the work was incredibly important, but

425
00:26:19,184 --> 00:26:22,905
again, more on the mopping

426
00:26:22,985 --> 00:26:26,587
up, if you will. So again, a lot of the cleanups, which is really important,

427
00:26:26,927 --> 00:26:30,328
as well as the in-school education, So again,

428
00:26:30,388 --> 00:26:33,789
not to say that that stuff isn't important, but what we feel

429
00:26:33,829 --> 00:26:37,470
like in Canada that is missing at the time was really

430
00:26:37,530 --> 00:26:40,931
that who is focused just on plastic in

431
00:26:40,951 --> 00:26:44,252
the environment. There's a ton of work happening in this space with

432
00:26:44,432 --> 00:26:47,533
amazing NGOs, but no

433
00:26:47,593 --> 00:26:50,895
one's focused just on plastic. And no one's focused on just

434
00:26:50,955 --> 00:26:54,418
on plastic from a policy perspective on working with businesses

435
00:26:54,459 --> 00:26:57,642
and helping them find true alternatives and not just you know

436
00:26:58,102 --> 00:27:01,246
the thing that everyone else does which is like switch to compostables which is.

437
00:27:01,870 --> 00:27:05,411
Yeah. Absolute garbage. I'm sure we'll get to that later. But

438
00:27:05,512 --> 00:27:08,973
who is actually helping municipalities affect

439
00:27:09,033 --> 00:27:12,674
change? Who is helping businesses make these transitions? And

440
00:27:12,875 --> 00:27:16,656
while we, of course, still have an education mandate, what

441
00:27:16,676 --> 00:27:20,438
we've realized is we can affect the masses through providing education

442
00:27:20,478 --> 00:27:23,599
programs for schools across Canada. We don't need to be

443
00:27:23,619 --> 00:27:26,980
the ones delivering that program in person. we can affect

444
00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:30,321
change on a massive scale by being able to deliver the materials and

445
00:27:30,341 --> 00:27:33,562
the resources, which is what we've now done. So what we did

446
00:27:33,602 --> 00:27:37,043
ultimately in 2022 in July is we took

447
00:27:37,063 --> 00:27:40,303
a step back from the international organization and truly became an

448
00:27:40,343 --> 00:27:43,844
independent Canadian organization called Mind Your Plastic with

449
00:27:43,924 --> 00:27:47,385
the goal of eliminating plastic pollution in Canada. So again,

450
00:27:47,405 --> 00:27:50,766
the oceans are still obviously very much a part of that. But

451
00:27:50,806 --> 00:27:54,106
what we learned in that transition is there were

452
00:27:54,227 --> 00:27:57,647
so many Canadians that They don't feel

453
00:27:57,727 --> 00:28:01,069
connected to the issue of plastic pollution if we're only talking about

454
00:28:01,109 --> 00:28:04,790
plastic in the oceans. Again, in Ontario, do

455
00:28:04,830 --> 00:28:09,812
we care that much about plastic in the oceans when there's no ocean around? And

456
00:28:09,852 --> 00:28:12,933
again, our friends in Alberta and Saskatchewan and

457
00:28:12,973 --> 00:28:17,272
all these areas that are essentially landlocked for the most part, do

458
00:28:17,292 --> 00:28:20,534
they have that same level of care if it's

459
00:28:20,574 --> 00:28:23,956
about oceans? And what we've learned since the transition is

460
00:28:23,996 --> 00:28:27,318
we still absolutely have our Vancouver and our Halifax base,

461
00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:32,001
but the buy-in and support from places

462
00:28:32,061 --> 00:28:35,783
like Alberta and Saskatchewan have been

463
00:28:36,164 --> 00:28:39,466
huge. We've seen such a huge uptick, especially in

464
00:28:39,486 --> 00:28:42,948
our education programs in those communities, which has been so

465
00:28:42,988 --> 00:28:46,510
great to see and really reaffirms you know, the transition

466
00:28:48,931 --> 00:28:52,412
Yeah, speaking of that connection, it's

467
00:28:52,452 --> 00:28:55,673
really interesting. As an organization, how do

468
00:28:55,773 --> 00:28:59,514
you, you know, have people understand, like

469
00:28:59,534 --> 00:29:02,715
your constituents understand that connection and

470
00:29:02,735 --> 00:29:06,036
the effect of that connection? Because I'll tell you from what I've

471
00:29:06,397 --> 00:29:10,018
experienced online and just from people even

472
00:29:10,078 --> 00:29:13,835
in my own family, My kids don't necessarily

473
00:29:13,955 --> 00:29:17,720
think about plastic pollution when they

474
00:29:17,780 --> 00:29:21,344
are going to Starbucks or when they're having a coffee. Or

475
00:29:21,444 --> 00:29:26,430
yes, my kids are that old now that they have coffee. They think they need coffee. Just

476
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:30,755
wait. Yeah, exactly. Not just the kids. I

477
00:29:30,795 --> 00:29:33,978
see everybody like they're just they're having plastic bags and even

478
00:29:33,998 --> 00:29:38,381
they're complaining about you know reusable

479
00:29:38,401 --> 00:29:41,603
straws or the paper straws now because you're starting to see more and more

480
00:29:41,663 --> 00:29:44,805
paper straws. They're starting to complain like people I've

481
00:29:44,865 --> 00:29:48,308
seen like and sometimes they're really ridiculous comments on on posts

482
00:29:48,328 --> 00:29:51,530
but I start to see like why do we care about a sea turtle that

483
00:29:51,630 --> 00:29:55,772
one sea turtle that gets you know, swallows a plastic

484
00:29:55,812 --> 00:29:59,114
straw and like, why should we care? We never see this in Canada, which we know

485
00:29:59,174 --> 00:30:02,656
sea turtles do come to Canada. But regardless, like there are people

486
00:30:02,716 --> 00:30:06,658
who are just out there almost going against what

487
00:30:06,758 --> 00:30:10,340
seems to be a rational thought and like a common sense

488
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,182
thought. So you talk about not only the disconnect, but almost the rebellion

489
00:30:14,362 --> 00:30:17,964
against a movement, which is like, it's not only protecting

490
00:30:18,004 --> 00:30:21,611
the environment, but it's protecting your health. Yet

491
00:30:21,651 --> 00:30:25,293
you just think that this is a normal thing. How

492
00:30:25,353 --> 00:30:28,776
do you talk to your constituents in

493
00:30:28,816 --> 00:30:32,199
a way where it's like, hey, we have a huge problem

494
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,802
Yeah, and that's something that I've been seeing too. And

495
00:30:36,842 --> 00:30:40,805
sometimes I find myself reading the comments on things just to

496
00:30:40,885 --> 00:30:44,168
see what are people saying who do not align with my

497
00:30:44,208 --> 00:30:47,891
values. And even what I saw the other day, Andrew, on TikTok,

498
00:30:48,531 --> 00:30:51,713
someone who was saying how she went

499
00:30:51,753 --> 00:30:55,115
to the US and she's coming back across the Canadian border and she

500
00:30:55,155 --> 00:30:58,237
has something super illegal and she has to hide it. It's a bunch of

501
00:30:58,298 --> 00:31:01,500
straws, like plastic straws from McDonald's. I was like, you

502
00:31:01,540 --> 00:31:04,922
know, you can get those in Canada, right? You're

503
00:31:04,942 --> 00:31:08,404
not gonna be able to get them maybe at your Tim Hortons, but you can still go buy plastic

504
00:31:08,444 --> 00:31:11,586
straws and keep them in your car if you really want to. But

505
00:31:11,606 --> 00:31:15,027
you know what we found is is we have to adjust the messaging.

506
00:31:15,968 --> 00:31:19,169
You know, if people don't care about the environment, because some people feel like

507
00:31:19,209 --> 00:31:23,670
it's a lost cause at this point, that it's just, you know, I mean,

508
00:31:23,690 --> 00:31:26,911
we have climate deniers, who people who think that it's

509
00:31:27,011 --> 00:31:30,892
just fake, and it's just not true, still a hoax, absolutely

510
00:31:30,932 --> 00:31:34,113
bananas. And, you know, so we have folks who

511
00:31:34,373 --> 00:31:37,554
just straight up aren't subscribing to that. You

512
00:31:37,574 --> 00:31:41,018
know that concept at all but then you also just have people who maybe

513
00:31:41,118 --> 00:31:44,702
see the environment or like well what is what is one straw

514
00:31:44,962 --> 00:31:48,186
doing or what is one starbucks cup doing it's really not

515
00:31:48,226 --> 00:31:51,490
in the grand scheme of things contributing or adding that much more

516
00:31:51,510 --> 00:31:55,074
and then you know i think everyone's seen that meme

517
00:31:55,194 --> 00:31:59,090
on on facebook or instagram that's basically like oh it's One

518
00:31:59,150 --> 00:32:04,535
cup said 8 billion people, right? So it

519
00:32:04,795 --> 00:32:08,918
all adds up. But what we really look at is how do we target our

520
00:32:08,978 --> 00:32:12,281
messaging to our audience? So what is our audience going

521
00:32:12,321 --> 00:32:16,084
to care about? So now I know when I go talk to businesses, sure,

522
00:32:16,124 --> 00:32:19,266
I'll talk about the environment. I'm gonna talk about the ROI on

523
00:32:19,286 --> 00:32:22,547
the bottom line first and foremost again i use that example of

524
00:32:22,587 --> 00:32:25,808
my time at starbucks where. You know we we did

525
00:32:25,888 --> 00:32:29,950
transition to reusable i stopped buying sleeves and sleeves of

526
00:32:30,010 --> 00:32:33,491
disposable cups that were also wrapped in plastic that also came

527
00:32:33,571 --> 00:32:36,812
wrapped in more like you know so. And

528
00:32:36,852 --> 00:32:39,933
what that can do for your business. And again, what are the cost savings? And

529
00:32:39,953 --> 00:32:43,633
I think of an example that there's this amazing meal

530
00:32:43,673 --> 00:32:47,114
delivery service out in Vancouver called Fresh Prep.

531
00:32:47,574 --> 00:32:50,635
And I remember using their service when I first lived there. And at

532
00:32:50,675 --> 00:32:54,136
the time, they had this really cool reverse logistics process

533
00:32:54,176 --> 00:32:58,296
where it's not like Chef's Plate or HelloFresh

534
00:32:58,336 --> 00:33:02,637
or whoever that you order online and it gets delivered to your door. It's

535
00:33:03,157 --> 00:33:06,557
instead you get you

536
00:33:06,577 --> 00:33:10,064
would have a pickup. So they would deliver it to you in a bag with

537
00:33:10,585 --> 00:33:13,692
all the packaging. It was single use and disposable at the time, but

538
00:33:13,712 --> 00:33:17,000
then they would come and pick it up from you. And

539
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,262
they said, keep your garbage in there, because they were going to recycle it for you. Because at

540
00:33:20,282 --> 00:33:23,403
the time in Vancouver, they still do. You have soft plastics and

541
00:33:23,423 --> 00:33:27,285
things like that. What they've now added are reusables.

542
00:33:27,485 --> 00:33:30,947
So all of their stuff, to the best of their ability, or most of it, is packaged

543
00:33:31,067 --> 00:33:34,409
in reusable containers. So then when they pick it up, there's

544
00:33:34,429 --> 00:33:37,450
no waste to it. And what they discovered is they did a

545
00:33:37,490 --> 00:33:40,932
cost analysis. And they said, they will pay

546
00:33:41,072 --> 00:33:44,814
for these containers. Yes, it will be a little bit more expensive for them as

547
00:33:44,854 --> 00:33:48,783
a business upfront. for eight uses. and

548
00:33:48,823 --> 00:33:52,046
they're getting 40 uses out of those

549
00:33:52,086 --> 00:33:55,769
containers. So they're essentially getting 32 free uses

550
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:59,912
out of these versus again, having to buy the single use cheap plastic, not

551
00:33:59,932 --> 00:34:03,195
to mention you pay disposal fees on that after a certain period of time

552
00:34:03,215 --> 00:34:06,577
when you have so much of it. So again, we like to focus on

553
00:34:07,358 --> 00:34:10,481
cost recovery and savings, or depending on who we're speaking to,

554
00:34:10,501 --> 00:34:14,204
if we're speaking to health-minded folks, we talk about the plastic impacts

555
00:34:14,264 --> 00:34:18,893
on your body. So that again, there's plastic, there

556
00:34:18,933 --> 00:34:22,315
are negative implications in every area that

557
00:34:22,335 --> 00:34:26,177
you could possibly care about. So it's really just figuring out what

558
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:34,681
For sure. I love that. I love that idea. It comes

559
00:34:34,721 --> 00:34:37,982
down to, it's really interesting, actually, when you

560
00:34:38,062 --> 00:34:42,324
look at the benefits of being environmentally friendly

561
00:34:42,865 --> 00:34:46,166
overall, not just plastics, but environmentally friendly, you end

562
00:34:46,266 --> 00:34:50,643
up coming out better on the financial side. Totally.

563
00:34:50,783 --> 00:34:54,125
From an overall perspective, maybe not right in the short term, but you end

564
00:34:54,225 --> 00:34:57,747
up being better in the longer

565
00:34:57,787 --> 00:35:01,128
term. And we fail to realize this as

566
00:35:01,188 --> 00:35:04,370
a consumer. And I think it has to do

567
00:35:04,410 --> 00:35:07,771
with the habit change. I think we are just so resistant to

568
00:35:07,831 --> 00:35:11,113
changing our habits that once something new

569
00:35:11,153 --> 00:35:14,634
comes in, people will complain about it. You love

570
00:35:14,674 --> 00:35:17,955
the plastic straws because we're so used to it. But a paper straw

571
00:35:18,015 --> 00:35:21,076
comes into place or or you know, you can get permanent straws or

572
00:35:21,096 --> 00:35:24,237
reusable straws Metal and things like that and you're just kind of

573
00:35:24,257 --> 00:35:27,878
like well, why do I have to have this? Why can't I just go back to what we just but

574
00:35:27,938 --> 00:35:31,418
it saves you money? Because what like for a metal straw cost

575
00:35:31,438 --> 00:35:34,739
you like a dollar thirty or something like that Maybe it's a little bit more now, but

576
00:35:34,799 --> 00:35:38,220
it's a dollar thirty compared to buying like

577
00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:42,382
stuff where it's a straw after straw after straw after straw it's gonna be more expensive

578
00:35:42,522 --> 00:35:45,564
and what are you gonna do you're just gonna throw it out it's gonna be bigger like it

579
00:35:45,584 --> 00:35:48,806
just doesn't make any sense and but i just feel like people are

580
00:35:48,886 --> 00:35:52,007
so resistant that they'll be stubborn enough to do it i'm a

581
00:35:52,047 --> 00:35:55,169
little bit cynical about it right because it's like i

582
00:35:59,011 --> 00:36:02,332
Yeah, don't take my, and I've heard people say this,

583
00:36:02,432 --> 00:36:05,853
it's like, I'm so sick of talking about the straw because it

584
00:36:05,893 --> 00:36:09,334
became such an icon for

585
00:36:10,294 --> 00:36:13,775
the plastic movement, for moving away from plastics, that

586
00:36:13,855 --> 00:36:17,336
people are just, that's what they rally against, I'm rallying against

587
00:36:17,416 --> 00:36:20,878
the straw. Right? Like aside from people who need it because

588
00:36:21,118 --> 00:36:24,920
of disabilities and things like that. We've, you know, that's implied,

589
00:36:24,980 --> 00:36:28,642
but the people who rally against it's like, why do we need to worry about the straw as

590
00:36:28,682 --> 00:36:31,883
they sip out of their Starbucks cup or their Tim Hortons cup and

591
00:36:31,923 --> 00:36:35,365
things like that here in Canada and Tim Hortons. And you're just sitting there and you're like, do

592
00:36:35,385 --> 00:36:38,827
you see the hypocrisy here? Like, like, it's just, I found

593
00:36:38,867 --> 00:36:42,289
that the plastic straw was a symbol of

594
00:36:42,369 --> 00:36:45,799
our problem with plastic. It's not just a plastic straw,

595
00:36:45,839 --> 00:36:49,063
because I'll tell you, and I've said this a number of times in my podcast, my listeners are

596
00:36:49,083 --> 00:36:52,867
probably sick of me saying this, but four months later, after Nathan

597
00:36:52,907 --> 00:36:56,370
Robinson and Christine Figner pulled that straw out

598
00:36:56,570 --> 00:36:59,854
of a sea turtle, four months later, 70 kilometers south of

599
00:36:59,894 --> 00:37:03,297
that beach, Nathan Robinson pulled a plastic fork out

600
00:37:03,418 --> 00:37:06,540
of an Olive Ridley sea turtle. So it's not just a

601
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,222
plastic straw, it's plastic everything. And it becomes, like it goes into

602
00:37:10,282 --> 00:37:13,503
our system and it comes back along the shoreline and that's how we know

603
00:37:13,583 --> 00:37:17,125
about it. And a lot of the places I would imagine

604
00:37:17,165 --> 00:37:20,727
in Canada, we don't get the buildup of plastic, but places in India,

605
00:37:20,787 --> 00:37:23,968
places in Malaysia, places in Indonesia, in

606
00:37:24,148 --> 00:37:27,349
the South Pacific, where their waste management may not be as

607
00:37:27,409 --> 00:37:30,883
strong as ours. they're getting piles and piles of

608
00:37:33,384 --> 00:37:37,085
I'll tell you, I had the opportunity

609
00:37:37,165 --> 00:37:40,546
to go and work, because our team, we work all

610
00:37:40,606 --> 00:37:43,987
remotely. So as long as you have a Wi-Fi connection, we can work from anywhere. So

611
00:37:44,087 --> 00:37:47,567
I just, because I'm not much of a cold gal,

612
00:37:47,587 --> 00:37:51,668
so I was working for a few weeks in Guatemala, because I

613
00:37:51,708 --> 00:37:54,829
love the country. And I spent a

614
00:37:55,069 --> 00:37:58,470
lot of my time on the Pacific coast of Guatemala in a place called El Peridón,

615
00:37:59,230 --> 00:38:02,613
It's a surf community and they also have a lot

616
00:38:02,673 --> 00:38:06,216
of amazing sea turtle conservation projects happening there

617
00:38:06,616 --> 00:38:11,420
because still in the Guatemalan communities, it's still quite common to

618
00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:14,783
poach sea turtle eggs, both for either like local cuisine or just

619
00:38:14,843 --> 00:38:18,186
for sustenance, for financial

620
00:38:18,206 --> 00:38:21,608
support. So there's a lot of local NGOs there who are trying to

621
00:38:22,609 --> 00:38:26,112
still help the locals survive while helping the sea turtles survive.

622
00:38:27,458 --> 00:38:31,580
And I've been to Guatemala a few times. It's

623
00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:35,062
no secret to me that there's a poor waste management

624
00:38:35,122 --> 00:38:38,964
there, a heavy reliance on just single use and disposable plastics.

625
00:38:40,385 --> 00:38:43,646
But what was really, really stark for me, and I actually have videos of

626
00:38:43,686 --> 00:38:47,268
this and I'll happily share it with you if it's something you'd like to see. I

627
00:38:47,288 --> 00:38:50,370
was that crazy tourist who's at a sea turtle release at

628
00:38:50,971 --> 00:38:54,093
six in the morning taking pictures of the

629
00:38:54,113 --> 00:38:57,435
beach itself because it was the most heartbreaking scene I'd ever seen

630
00:38:57,855 --> 00:39:01,558
because you have 200 baby Olive Ridley sea turtles off

631
00:39:02,483 --> 00:39:06,485
going out into the ocean, but what you've seen across

632
00:39:06,505 --> 00:39:10,206
the shoreline is just it's decimated with plastic

633
00:39:10,406 --> 00:39:14,247
and garbage. And it's not just your tiny styrofoam pieces,

634
00:39:14,327 --> 00:39:17,729
it's everything. It's

635
00:39:19,709 --> 00:39:22,871
When I was in Costa Rica, I remember we had a big torrential downpour the

636
00:39:22,891 --> 00:39:26,352
night before and the beach was just littered with plastics that

637
00:39:26,412 --> 00:39:29,954
wasn't there the day before. And it just came back up and it was like, sandals and

638
00:39:30,194 --> 00:39:33,576
alcohol bottles, plastic bottles, as well as just

639
00:39:33,596 --> 00:39:37,299
like these pieces of shards of plastic, broken plastic. You

640
00:39:37,319 --> 00:39:40,522
can see, like when people say, yeah, microplastic is a problem, like I see

641
00:39:41,542 --> 00:39:44,785
Yeah, it's literally right there. You could grab a strainer and

642
00:39:44,945 --> 00:39:48,087
just have, it could be full, right? So, and again, it

643
00:39:48,107 --> 00:39:51,550
was just so stark seeing all these beautiful, you know, young

644
00:39:51,610 --> 00:39:55,173
creatures going out amidst the very thing that will likely

645
00:39:55,993 --> 00:39:59,415
be the result of their demise, right? So it

646
00:39:59,455 --> 00:40:02,738
was quite stark. But yeah, again, it just goes to show

647
00:40:02,818 --> 00:40:06,200
that it may not be as prevalent here.

648
00:40:07,180 --> 00:40:10,843
However, it is if you look. And I think

649
00:40:10,883 --> 00:40:14,745
of a cleanup that I did in a

650
00:40:14,785 --> 00:40:18,069
few years ago in Toronto, and we had picked a, we wanted

651
00:40:18,089 --> 00:40:21,512
to pick a spot that was relatively accessible for people. Because

652
00:40:21,552 --> 00:40:25,056
of course, if it's a corporate cleanup, you know, you want to make sure folks can get there quite easily.

653
00:40:25,176 --> 00:40:28,599
We don't want it to be in the middle of nowhere. So we picked a spot called Cherry Beach.

654
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,243
Yeah. And it was funny because we got there and I was

655
00:40:32,283 --> 00:40:35,466
there with the folks I was organizing it with. And they were like, Oh

656
00:40:35,506 --> 00:40:39,251
my gosh, we, we picked the cleanest beach in Toronto. And

657
00:40:39,291 --> 00:40:43,395
I was like, just wait. And sure enough, we had

658
00:40:43,515 --> 00:40:46,939
our group it wasn't a huge group it was probably about 20 people, and

659
00:40:46,959 --> 00:40:50,440
we had an hour to clean up. when

660
00:40:50,540 --> 00:40:53,921
I tell you I had to force these people to come back because

661
00:40:53,941 --> 00:40:57,142
they were so invested in what they were finding and they didn't even make it

662
00:40:57,162 --> 00:41:00,563
that far. And they came back and they were like, we

663
00:41:00,683 --> 00:41:04,164
are shocked at what we found. And again, you know, I'm

664
00:41:04,204 --> 00:41:07,564
always aware of, you know, you know, they get the big pictures of people and

665
00:41:07,644 --> 00:41:10,965
I just collected 3000 pounds of garbage. I

666
00:41:10,985 --> 00:41:15,407
don't usually like to focus too much on the weight because you

667
00:41:15,447 --> 00:41:19,268
might pick up a bunch of big stuff or you're going to pick up thousands

668
00:41:19,308 --> 00:41:22,609
of pieces of small things. And the picture that I have from

669
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:26,471
just the cigarette butts alone, I can't remember the

670
00:41:26,511 --> 00:41:29,672
exact amount, but again, I have the picture and it was just

671
00:41:29,732 --> 00:41:33,154
a mound of cigarette butts from an hour of cleaning up

672
00:41:33,194 --> 00:41:36,475
that beach and amongst many of the other things.

673
00:41:36,535 --> 00:41:40,017
So it is happening. It's in our backyard.

674
00:41:40,058 --> 00:41:43,201
It may not be as obvious as if you were to go to

675
00:41:43,281 --> 00:41:46,605
some of the places you had listed before. But

676
00:41:46,645 --> 00:41:50,008
again, this isn't a place where we do have proper waste management and people

677
00:41:50,048 --> 00:41:53,232
are either just choosing to not participate in it for

678
00:41:53,252 --> 00:41:56,634
a variety of reasons. Or they just

679
00:41:57,234 --> 00:42:01,256
are just disposing of it on their own, which is its own

680
00:42:01,476 --> 00:42:04,518
level of frustration, as you can imagine. But it is in

681
00:42:04,558 --> 00:42:07,760
our environment and it is affecting our animals. It's affecting our wildlife and

682
00:42:09,324 --> 00:42:12,566
The litter that you picked up for that

683
00:42:12,606 --> 00:42:16,089
cleanup, was it mostly coming from the water or

684
00:42:16,149 --> 00:42:19,311
is it mostly people that littered while they

685
00:42:19,331 --> 00:42:23,053
were at the beach? Because the Cherry Beach is a very popular beach. It's very crowded.

686
00:42:23,473 --> 00:42:27,216
It's a large beach too. There's a volleyball. There's all these different activities there.

687
00:42:27,676 --> 00:42:32,499
So was it from like Ontario or is it from just

688
00:42:35,031 --> 00:42:38,895
My guess is that a lot of it was found along the

689
00:42:39,115 --> 00:42:42,318
tide line, I guess, along the brush and the tree

690
00:42:42,358 --> 00:42:45,802
lines and things like that there. But based on what we're finding and

691
00:42:47,243 --> 00:42:51,327
the level of degradation, it seemed to be mostly consumer

692
00:42:51,868 --> 00:42:55,110
garbage from folks using the park. stuff. It's

693
00:42:55,171 --> 00:42:58,192
not like we were finding stuff that was really, really, again, like heavily degraded. I

694
00:42:59,033 --> 00:43:02,155
know we had some folks spending their time along the shoreline, and what

695
00:43:02,175 --> 00:43:05,416
they were finding, again, was it wasn't as much, but what

696
00:43:05,436 --> 00:43:08,738
they were finding was a lot of stuff in and amongst the bushes along Cherry Beach and

697
00:43:08,798 --> 00:43:11,860
the trees and stuff like that. So our guess is it

698
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:15,222
was mostly like park goers versus stuff

699
00:43:15,262 --> 00:43:18,724
getting into the environment through like wind transfer or just environmental transfer.

700
00:43:18,944 --> 00:43:22,566
Interesting. That's really interesting. And you know, I

701
00:43:22,706 --> 00:43:25,934
feel almost more hopeful for that

702
00:43:26,134 --> 00:43:30,137
when it's people that are on the beach because education can be done. Yeah.

703
00:43:30,397 --> 00:43:33,699
Even like putting up signage, you know, having people

704
00:43:33,739 --> 00:43:36,881
go around, you know, maybe volunteers or something that they can go

705
00:43:36,921 --> 00:43:40,103
around and talk to the people. It's like, hey, don't forget, you know, I

706
00:43:40,143 --> 00:43:43,205
see you have a lot of stuff. There's bins over here. Can you please put them in

707
00:43:43,225 --> 00:43:46,587
the bins? Just remind them nicely, you know, just having like just having that

708
00:43:46,647 --> 00:43:49,889
education. I feel like more hopeful about that. I feel when

709
00:43:49,929 --> 00:43:53,190
it gets When it gets less hopeful is when it starts to come in from

710
00:43:53,230 --> 00:43:56,531
the water where a lot of the ocean stuff is going. We know the Great Lakes are polluted with

711
00:43:56,551 --> 00:44:00,212
plastic. We know that's a fact that's been published in primary journals.

712
00:44:00,932 --> 00:44:04,113
But that's what gets me. You're just sitting there like, how do you clean up

713
00:44:04,293 --> 00:44:07,614
this? And it's really from, like you mentioned before, it's

714
00:44:07,674 --> 00:44:11,735
from the tap, right? It's back to the analogy of

715
00:44:12,015 --> 00:44:15,296
the bathtub and it overflowing with plastic. You just shut the

716
00:44:15,336 --> 00:44:19,510
tap off. How do we shut the tap off in

717
00:44:19,630 --> 00:44:23,273
Canada? That's the biggest thing. Now I'm saying this knowing,

718
00:44:23,433 --> 00:44:26,995
and I mentioned it before, we do have laws in Canada where

719
00:44:27,075 --> 00:44:30,458
we're stepping towards the right direction in

720
00:44:31,739 --> 00:44:35,381
reducing our production, our usage

721
00:44:35,581 --> 00:44:39,124
of plastic, although it is getting challenged as

722
00:44:39,184 --> 00:44:43,047
we knew that was gonna happen. But how do we stop the plastic usage

723
00:44:46,358 --> 00:44:49,600
Loaded question, Andrew. Do we have enough time for that? No, I'm just kidding.

724
00:44:51,721 --> 00:44:56,124
Let's go. Masterclass in plastic pollution.

725
00:44:56,524 --> 00:45:00,844
Yeah, I mean, it's a really Nuance dancer there's

726
00:45:01,004 --> 00:45:04,206
so much that we could be doing and you know i think what's really interesting is.

727
00:45:05,206 --> 00:45:08,808
You know i grew up in the area of just recycle

728
00:45:09,008 --> 00:45:12,170
if you recycle you're doing a great thing and you are basically an

729
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:15,491
environmentalist so. And what we've learned is

730
00:45:15,511 --> 00:45:20,434
that's just that's simply not true. It

731
00:45:20,594 --> 00:45:24,496
really is, and I would invite any listeners. There

732
00:45:24,556 --> 00:45:27,877
was a report that came out, I believe it was earlier this

733
00:45:27,917 --> 00:45:31,699
year, and it was quite lengthy about basically the fraud

734
00:45:31,799 --> 00:45:35,201
of plastic recycling and how it was all a

735
00:45:35,621 --> 00:45:39,203
scam from the oil and gas industry.

736
00:45:39,243 --> 00:45:42,724
So what Mind Your Plastic has done, because we

737
00:45:42,824 --> 00:45:46,466
try to make things a little more easily digestible for the folks who maybe don't

738
00:45:46,526 --> 00:45:49,788
have the time to read a 40 to 70 page

739
00:45:49,828 --> 00:45:53,190
report and make it maybe a little bit more digestible so we do have something on

740
00:45:53,570 --> 00:45:56,933
our website, written by our amazing programs

741
00:45:56,973 --> 00:46:00,175
and policy manager Michelle, that just breaks it down a little bit

742
00:46:00,235 --> 00:46:04,157
and I can share the link if you have any. But

743
00:46:04,397 --> 00:46:07,760
it's a really great, fascinating read

744
00:46:07,780 --> 00:46:11,063
to show how the oil

745
00:46:11,103 --> 00:46:14,326
and gas industry really manipulated the facts and

746
00:46:14,366 --> 00:46:17,849
spun recycling as a true alternative. And

747
00:46:18,029 --> 00:46:21,773
it's just truly not. So recycling does play

748
00:46:21,813 --> 00:46:25,176
a part in solving the plastic pollution crisis. Like

749
00:46:25,196 --> 00:46:29,298
there are some plastics that are truly highly recyclable,

750
00:46:29,999 --> 00:46:33,579
like you think of your clear PET water

751
00:46:33,619 --> 00:46:37,260
bottles, those have very high recyclability rates

752
00:46:38,881 --> 00:46:42,381
versus say your like bright orange tied laundry

753
00:46:42,401 --> 00:46:45,662
detergent container. Very little end market for

754
00:46:45,702 --> 00:46:49,323
something like that or again your plastics that don't have that chasing arrow

755
00:46:50,348 --> 00:46:55,090
just because it has that chasing arrow does not therein mean it's recyclable. If

756
00:46:55,110 --> 00:46:59,252
you've not heard that before, let me burst that bubble for you real quick. But

757
00:46:59,292 --> 00:47:02,833
again, so it's looking at recyclability as a piece of that puzzle.

758
00:47:03,314 --> 00:47:06,615
But the way we like to look at it at Mind Your Plastic is

759
00:47:06,695 --> 00:47:09,816
really it's a combination of policy change that

760
00:47:09,856 --> 00:47:13,398
needs to happen. We need to regulate this substance. We

761
00:47:13,458 --> 00:47:17,321
know it's toxic, despite what is being challenged currently

762
00:47:17,481 --> 00:47:20,623
in the federal courts. We know it's toxic. We know it's

763
00:47:20,663 --> 00:47:23,885
not good for people. So we need it

764
00:47:23,905 --> 00:47:27,127
to be regulated. We need our corporations, our

765
00:47:27,187 --> 00:47:30,769
producers, our manufacturers, we need them to also be on board with

766
00:47:30,869 --> 00:47:34,152
change. Because again, there is a space

767
00:47:34,192 --> 00:47:37,414
for plastic in our economy, but there should not be a space for

768
00:47:37,454 --> 00:47:40,656
plastic pollution in our environment. So we need to

769
00:47:40,716 --> 00:47:43,977
figure out what that looks like because it's not reasonable to

770
00:47:44,017 --> 00:47:47,919
suggest that all plastic needs to go. It's not pragmatic. That's

771
00:47:47,999 --> 00:47:52,001
not our stance as mind your plastic. We know that it

772
00:47:52,281 --> 00:47:55,623
is harmful to the environment in a sense, but anything and everything at scale.

773
00:47:56,469 --> 00:47:59,610
will have some level of harm. But what we really want to

774
00:47:59,630 --> 00:48:03,372
see is how do we keep it from being in our bodies and

775
00:48:03,492 --> 00:48:06,734
affecting our animals and in our environment. So again,

776
00:48:06,994 --> 00:48:10,175
we really feel that the policy, it really needs to be driven through

777
00:48:10,215 --> 00:48:14,358
policy because corporations we're

778
00:48:14,398 --> 00:48:18,420
not going to rely on the good-heartedness of corporations

779
00:48:18,901 --> 00:48:22,302
to solve this crisis. They're very

780
00:48:22,362 --> 00:48:25,504
likely going to need to be mandated to do it. And as we've seen from

781
00:48:25,524 --> 00:48:29,005
the Global Plastics Treaty, if anyone's been following that, we

782
00:48:29,025 --> 00:48:32,467
have a lot of countries and industry pushing back on

783
00:48:34,608 --> 00:48:38,549
on targets requesting voluntary targets instead. Yeah.

784
00:48:38,909 --> 00:48:42,190
Which voluntary targets... Means nothing. I mean, you can...

785
00:48:42,450 --> 00:48:46,691
Yeah, exactly. You volunteer just like Coke's reusable

786
00:48:49,311 --> 00:48:53,773
Yeah. My favorite environmental corporate slang

787
00:48:54,053 --> 00:48:57,296
is best practices. Right? I find like, Oh,

788
00:48:57,316 --> 00:49:00,498
we'll use best practices. Well, why don't you just, if you're

789
00:49:00,518 --> 00:49:03,760
going to use the best practices, that means you're going to do what we

790
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,042
regulate you to do. They just don't want to be told what to do.

791
00:49:07,122 --> 00:49:10,444
And, you know, I had a conversation on, on, on

792
00:49:10,464 --> 00:49:13,686
this podcast with, with Oceana and

793
00:49:13,706 --> 00:49:16,848
they mentioned, you know, one of the things that, you

794
00:49:16,868 --> 00:49:20,170
know, that, that they talked about when they challenged the ban

795
00:49:20,251 --> 00:49:23,633
on the six plastic, six plastics that they want

796
00:49:23,673 --> 00:49:27,030
to ban. They said that it

797
00:49:27,090 --> 00:49:31,237
wasn't the fact that they were in disagreement of those plastics. What

798
00:49:31,257 --> 00:49:35,103
they wanted to do was ban the fact that the government said

799
00:49:35,344 --> 00:49:39,030
in the Canadian Environmental Protection

800
00:49:39,150 --> 00:49:43,355
Act that all plastics were toxic. Because

801
00:49:43,395 --> 00:49:46,676
what they don't want to do is later on down the road, they don't want the government

802
00:49:46,716 --> 00:49:50,098
to say that you can't use the plastics that you make. And so

803
00:49:50,178 --> 00:49:53,379
that's what they're worried about. They're worried about the future. They're not worried, they

804
00:49:53,419 --> 00:49:56,481
agree with the six plastics, you know, six types and

805
00:49:56,521 --> 00:49:59,602
categories of plastics that they want to ban, but they'd rather get rid of

806
00:49:59,642 --> 00:50:03,524
that. than to eventually be mandated

807
00:50:03,604 --> 00:50:07,045
to do something else. And I think the next thing that the government wants

808
00:50:07,085 --> 00:50:10,247
to do, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Natasha, but is to put in

809
00:50:10,267 --> 00:50:13,808
the registry and sort of trace where

810
00:50:13,848 --> 00:50:17,330
the plastics go on a day-to-day basis, where they

811
00:50:17,350 --> 00:50:20,571
are made and where they end up. And that's basically a

812
00:50:20,651 --> 00:50:23,873
traceability and a transparency study. to find out where

813
00:50:23,913 --> 00:50:41,903
that goes. balk

814
00:50:41,983 --> 00:50:45,908
at spending $100,000 on a project

815
00:50:45,928 --> 00:50:50,113
where they're going to earn billions. And they don't want to spend $100,000 to

816
00:50:50,333 --> 00:50:53,677
spend on an environmental assessment just so that

817
00:50:53,777 --> 00:50:56,920
they can make sure that this project goes through because they know they're going to

818
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,424
make billions on it. You know, and that study could impede

819
00:51:00,464 --> 00:51:03,727
them from doing it. And so they don't want to spend any money that they don't have

820
00:51:03,787 --> 00:51:07,171
to do. So I think you summed it up perfectly. These

821
00:51:07,251 --> 00:51:10,514
companies do not want to do all this stuff. They have to

822
00:51:10,554 --> 00:51:13,817
be mandated to do this because they have too much to lose if

823
00:51:14,198 --> 00:51:17,241
they do it. And that kind of tells you something. If you are a

824
00:51:17,301 --> 00:51:20,524
business that is that if you're a business that's going to

825
00:51:21,864 --> 00:51:25,386
misinform the public, pay to misinform the public on things like climate change,

826
00:51:25,826 --> 00:51:29,327
pay to misinform the public and create programs like recycling, which

827
00:51:29,387 --> 00:51:32,629
is just basically big misinformation. I mean, Natasha, when you and

828
00:51:32,649 --> 00:51:35,910
I were in school, everybody went to school, you told recycling is the best

829
00:51:35,970 --> 00:51:39,772
way to go through things. We know that was fraud. So

830
00:51:39,932 --> 00:51:44,348
they're willing to do this to the public. And somehow,

831
00:51:44,408 --> 00:51:48,209
they're still getting away with it. And it's effective. They

832
00:51:48,269 --> 00:51:51,790
know it's effective, just so that they can make more money. And they don't care about

833
00:51:51,830 --> 00:51:55,431
the planet. So these regulations and these global

834
00:51:55,451 --> 00:51:58,712
plastic treaties need to be perfect. And maybe not

835
00:51:58,772 --> 00:52:02,033
perfect, but they need to be strict enough to stop these companies from getting

836
00:52:02,053 --> 00:52:05,574
away with murder, essentially. and that is literally yeah

837
00:52:05,895 --> 00:52:09,217
and that is that is the crux of it all and

838
00:52:09,277 --> 00:52:12,440
they are going to balk at it i mean just even at the

839
00:52:12,540 --> 00:52:16,143
the global plastic treaty meetings they've been sending in lobbyists to

840
00:52:16,283 --> 00:52:19,506
confuse the messaging to let people know like

841
00:52:20,146 --> 00:52:23,609
there's there was rumors that they hired uh minorities to

842
00:52:23,669 --> 00:52:26,852
talk about sort of the like why they they want plastics and

843
00:52:26,892 --> 00:52:30,174
they're not being heard properly and all this kind of stuff it's it's just

844
00:52:34,077 --> 00:52:37,459
I had the chance to go to, when

845
00:52:37,499 --> 00:52:40,841
there were the negotiations in Ottawa, I was able

846
00:52:40,881 --> 00:52:44,143
to go and I remember walking through the

847
00:52:44,203 --> 00:52:47,665
Ottawa airport with signs everywhere because clearly

848
00:52:47,705 --> 00:52:51,627
they knew that it was going to be full of delegates that were there for the plastics treaty. There

849
00:52:51,647 --> 00:52:55,088
were signs basically showing the

850
00:52:55,109 --> 00:52:58,770
comparison of with plastic and without. So they were their example, the

851
00:52:58,830 --> 00:53:02,152
favourite example for the plastics industry for food Is

852
00:53:02,272 --> 00:53:05,694
the cucumber what happens to a cucumber if it's not wrapped in plastic it's

853
00:53:05,714 --> 00:53:09,315
going to become much so that it's just essentially promoting

854
00:53:09,395 --> 00:53:12,656
plastic and you know why it's good and why we need

855
00:53:12,696 --> 00:53:15,998
it and they were just all these varied advertisements throughout the

856
00:53:16,058 --> 00:53:20,490
airport. I was like, you guys are really trying hard on

857
00:53:20,510 --> 00:53:23,992
this. And again, similarly, throughout

858
00:53:24,112 --> 00:53:27,435
the discussions, I mean, I wasn't myself in the room

859
00:53:27,535 --> 00:53:30,717
for the treaty negotiations, but there were a whole bunch

860
00:53:30,757 --> 00:53:34,640
of side events that were happening. And it was so interesting,

861
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,943
again, to see who wasn't in the room and why not.

862
00:53:38,223 --> 00:53:41,425
And of course, you have a lot of small NGOs like ourselves or a lot of

863
00:53:41,845 --> 00:53:45,693
folks who came across who were the the waste pickers from,

864
00:53:45,713 --> 00:53:48,956
you know, Southeast Asia who again weren't able

865
00:53:48,996 --> 00:53:52,699
to be in the room, but they're the ones who are dealing with this problem head

866
00:53:52,939 --> 00:53:56,161
on in their communities. But of course, sure, let's have the

867
00:53:56,602 --> 00:53:59,744
lobbyists for Shell or whoever, in the room at

868
00:53:59,784 --> 00:54:03,405
the treaty negotiations, who again are sharing facts

869
00:54:03,485 --> 00:54:07,247
and even seeing receptions sponsored by

870
00:54:07,287 --> 00:54:10,669
the PET industry at the Plastics Treaty. So

871
00:54:10,689 --> 00:54:13,931
it was very interesting. I

872
00:54:14,031 --> 00:54:18,273
did not have the chance to go to Busan, but I would have loved to have gone just

873
00:54:22,446 --> 00:54:25,467
Well, I mean, that's the thing, right? I

874
00:54:25,707 --> 00:54:28,908
think people don't realize when we start to

875
00:54:28,928 --> 00:54:32,510
put treaties like these together, even like the Paris Accord,

876
00:54:32,530 --> 00:54:36,751
the Convention of Biological Diversity, the Global

877
00:54:36,771 --> 00:54:41,113
Plastic Treaty, when there are when

878
00:54:41,133 --> 00:54:44,714
there are players in there that stand to make a ton of money, they

879
00:54:44,754 --> 00:54:48,516
are going to do whatever possible to make sure that those treaties

880
00:54:49,016 --> 00:54:52,537
are bogus and to make sure that nothing happens with those treaties.

881
00:54:52,577 --> 00:54:55,758
And then what ends up eventually happening is

882
00:54:56,138 --> 00:54:59,519
people are like, well, nobody's following these treaties anyway, so why are we bothering?

883
00:54:59,540 --> 00:55:03,381
And that's the messaging that gets perpetuated on social media. And

884
00:55:03,401 --> 00:55:07,623
a lot of the times when you go back to the original source, It's

885
00:55:07,663 --> 00:55:11,188
like from a PR firm that's hired by an oil and gas company or

886
00:55:11,268 --> 00:55:15,113
by the Fraser Institute or by all this kind of stuff. It's

887
00:55:15,173 --> 00:55:18,537
ridiculous. It's frustrating as hell for you, for me, for a lot of people

888
00:55:18,577 --> 00:55:21,902
who are trying to do better and make sure. I'm not trying

889
00:55:21,922 --> 00:55:25,211
to stop people from making money. I think what we're all trying

890
00:55:25,251 --> 00:55:28,353
to do is to make sure that we are all safe, that the environment is

891
00:55:28,413 --> 00:55:31,555
safe, and that we are not disturbing the environment further than what

892
00:55:31,595 --> 00:55:34,937
we are doing right now. We are trying to reduce that impact. And

893
00:55:34,957 --> 00:55:38,559
I think something that's been really interesting too is realizing that

894
00:55:38,579 --> 00:55:41,981
the fossil fuel industry has a heavy, a heavy

895
00:55:42,041 --> 00:55:46,103
stake in making plastics because it's a petroleum product. That's

896
00:55:46,143 --> 00:55:49,246
kind of interesting. Do you have any comment on that? Were you surprised when you heard that?

897
00:55:49,486 --> 00:55:52,989
I think it was like 30% or 33% of the financial

898
00:55:53,069 --> 00:55:57,132
gains from oil and gas were from plastics,

899
00:55:57,172 --> 00:56:01,356
them making plastics. Were you surprised at that? Yeah, let's start with that.

900
00:56:04,180 --> 00:56:07,443
Not really, no I wasn't surprised because again you have to think

901
00:56:08,464 --> 00:56:11,706
it comes from the ground, it comes from oil. Of course they're

902
00:56:11,726 --> 00:56:15,109
going to be making a ton of money on it and again of course they're

903
00:56:15,149 --> 00:56:18,512
going to be incredibly resistant and it makes a lot of sense when

904
00:56:18,552 --> 00:56:23,116
you look at again what's being subsidized by our government. So

905
00:56:23,196 --> 00:56:26,548
it's interesting to see that Again,

906
00:56:26,588 --> 00:56:30,671
the challenges we're having as a federal government regulating plastics

907
00:56:30,731 --> 00:56:34,194
when we've seen it, I'm sure it wasn't easily done, but

908
00:56:34,214 --> 00:56:37,436
it seems to be at least better received in

909
00:56:37,496 --> 00:56:40,779
places like the UK, where there's already really

910
00:56:40,839 --> 00:56:44,301
progressive policy in terms of we're

911
00:56:44,321 --> 00:56:47,824
seeing produce being put out without packaging and

912
00:56:47,844 --> 00:56:51,166
they have very strict targets that they're looking to move towards. And

913
00:56:51,206 --> 00:56:54,558
here in Canada, Again, even banning those

914
00:56:54,698 --> 00:56:57,942
items, I mean, I'm happy to see it, but I'm still critical of it because at the same

915
00:56:57,982 --> 00:57:01,346
time, it's again, you see these

916
00:57:01,386 --> 00:57:05,130
plastics being banned, but then compostables or

917
00:57:05,611 --> 00:57:09,095
non-conventional plastics are a part of it, but not for everything.

918
00:57:09,777 --> 00:57:13,678
we can still have non-conventional plastics for food containers, even

919
00:57:13,738 --> 00:57:17,098
though there is no viable end of life for those

920
00:57:17,638 --> 00:57:20,719
compostable or non-conventional plastics. But in

921
00:57:20,779 --> 00:57:24,780
certain applications, it's okay. So, I mean, I think,

922
00:57:24,940 --> 00:57:28,220
again, you know, it's very interesting to see that there

923
00:57:28,420 --> 00:57:32,081
are quite obviously subsidies to the fossil fuels industry

924
00:57:32,121 --> 00:57:35,242
from our federal government, yet we're still trying to

925
00:57:35,302 --> 00:57:38,508
regulate the materials here as a country. I

926
00:57:38,528 --> 00:57:41,689
think there's more work to be done. I don't know that bans are

927
00:57:41,769 --> 00:57:45,091
really and truly going to do it. Because again, as you've mentioned, you

928
00:57:45,111 --> 00:57:48,812
have people just being frustrated by

929
00:57:49,452 --> 00:57:53,874
the lack of convenience in their day-to-day life. And really, that puts

930
00:57:53,914 --> 00:57:57,195
a lot of onus on the consumer to change their behaviors. Which,

931
00:57:58,075 --> 00:58:02,037
sure, I think consumers do need to change their behaviors to an extent so

932
00:58:02,057 --> 00:58:05,533
that this is just the norm. When

933
00:58:05,573 --> 00:58:08,676
you go out, it's just the norm. Why do we need to

934
00:58:09,297 --> 00:58:12,981
have a plastic bag for three items and get another plastic bag? That's

935
00:58:13,021 --> 00:58:17,305
the bare minimum. But really, that ban,

936
00:58:17,325 --> 00:58:20,649
again, happy to see some movement, but why aren't we putting

937
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:24,173
more focus on the corporations? Because that's

938
00:58:24,213 --> 00:58:27,616
where I think a lot of people are starting to get frustrated by all

939
00:58:27,636 --> 00:58:30,838
of this is, you know, again, I've seen the memes on social media where

940
00:58:30,858 --> 00:58:34,501
it's like me stepping out of a soggy paper straw, while

941
00:58:34,882 --> 00:58:38,165
Taylor Swift takes a jet across the country to watch the

942
00:58:38,205 --> 00:58:41,527
Chiefs play a game, you know what I mean? So, again, no shade,

943
00:58:41,547 --> 00:58:44,790
Swifties, don't come for me. But it's, again, just

944
00:58:44,830 --> 00:58:48,532
that criticism. It's fair criticism. It is, and it's like, why am

945
00:58:48,552 --> 00:58:51,772
I so inconvenienced from my regular day-to-day routine when I

946
00:58:51,812 --> 00:58:55,013
just want to enjoy my Starbucks in a paper plastic soup

947
00:58:55,033 --> 00:58:58,314
cup? Why am I being held accountable and why is my

948
00:58:58,374 --> 00:59:01,535
life changing when, again, these

949
00:59:01,595 --> 00:59:04,816
corporations where, again, we have Coke who can just eliminate their

950
00:59:04,856 --> 00:59:08,836
reusables targets, no problem, no one bats an eye. And again,

951
00:59:08,856 --> 00:59:12,517
they're going to continue to be the world's top polluter and no

952
00:59:12,597 --> 00:59:16,906
one cares. McDonald's will fund studies that have no real

953
00:59:17,186 --> 00:59:20,570
scientific data or sources in it at all saying that reuse

954
00:59:20,610 --> 00:59:24,475
isn't a solution, right? So it's, again,

955
00:59:24,715 --> 00:59:28,145
I think people just want to see the corporations held accountable

956
00:59:29,446 --> 00:59:32,567
Yeah. And even lead, you know, lead in these types of

957
00:59:32,607 --> 00:59:35,928
things and these types of movements. I think that would be great

958
00:59:35,948 --> 00:59:39,129
to see, you know, and that comes with leaders that come from

959
00:59:39,149 --> 00:59:42,870
the top. And I think it should be less about only

960
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:46,311
making money and more about making money, but also

961
00:59:46,371 --> 00:59:49,532
having an impact. That's why I love the B Corps, you know, that comes out

962
00:59:49,552 --> 00:59:53,173
with that type in the for in the sort of the social enterprises where

963
00:59:53,193 --> 00:59:56,575
it's like impact and money like hey Nobody's stopping you from making money,

964
00:59:58,816 --> 01:00:03,118
You know, I think exactly they can coexist Exactly

965
01:00:04,038 --> 01:00:07,200
I want to just talk. I know I know we've been talking for a while We've been kind of all

966
01:00:07,260 --> 01:00:10,461
over the place, but and I love these conversations but what I wanted to

967
01:00:10,521 --> 01:00:14,123
talk about are some of your programs, you know, you have

968
01:00:14,944 --> 01:00:18,789
a huge task ahead of you in Mind Your Plastic. Obviously,

969
01:00:18,809 --> 01:00:22,154
you can't do it on your own and you have a

970
01:00:22,475 --> 01:00:25,820
small staff for the amount of work that you're able to accomplish. So,

971
01:00:29,915 --> 01:00:33,458
Sure, yeah. And you're right, we are a very small team. It's really

972
01:00:33,498 --> 01:00:37,081
myself and we have two other full-time staff. And otherwise,

973
01:00:37,621 --> 01:00:41,645
our staff is really just dependent on when we have staffing grants. As

974
01:00:41,985 --> 01:00:45,828
many grassroots organizations, I'm sure that's no secret to them. And then, obviously,

975
01:00:45,868 --> 01:00:49,251
an incredible team of volunteers who are helping us

976
01:00:49,291 --> 01:00:53,733
get a lot of this work accomplished. anyone from volunteers

977
01:00:53,773 --> 01:00:57,414
who help us with SEO, to posting on social media,

978
01:00:57,514 --> 01:01:00,655
to helping us tackle how

979
01:01:00,675 --> 01:01:04,136
to implement reuse in stadiums. So there's a really, really

980
01:01:04,237 --> 01:01:07,638
broad amount of work that's covered by our team.

981
01:01:08,358 --> 01:01:11,699
In terms of our programming, as I mentioned earlier, our

982
01:01:11,739 --> 01:01:14,960
main focus is our municipal policy change, how we can help

983
01:01:15,020 --> 01:01:18,401
businesses transition away from, again,

984
01:01:18,441 --> 01:01:21,662
these single use or disposable items towards stronger, you

985
01:01:22,783 --> 01:01:26,244
know, circular solutions such as, you know, reuse and

986
01:01:26,404 --> 01:01:29,985
introduction first and foremost, as well as doing our

987
01:01:30,005 --> 01:01:33,166
direct action and education programming. So that generally looks

988
01:01:33,206 --> 01:01:36,587
like our, you know, being out in the community, you

989
01:01:36,607 --> 01:01:39,868
know, as you mentioned, doing cleanups and engaging and

990
01:01:39,968 --> 01:01:43,389
educating. but also our education program that's

991
01:01:43,449 --> 01:01:47,370
in schools across Canada called the Circular Economy Ambassador Program. I

992
01:01:47,390 --> 01:01:50,771
think when you and I would have talked the last time, it might have been right after

993
01:01:50,811 --> 01:01:55,273
the first year or something, when we had 450 participants

994
01:01:55,373 --> 01:01:58,634
in four provinces. And in the second and

995
01:01:58,694 --> 01:02:02,235
third year, seeing those numbers grow into the two

996
01:02:02,295 --> 01:02:06,357
and three thousands. And then this year we're sitting at almost 4,000 participants,

997
01:02:06,397 --> 01:02:09,971
which has been so amazing to see and you know our

998
01:02:09,991 --> 01:02:14,252
goal as well as always to have it not only you know

999
01:02:14,352 --> 01:02:18,553
in certain spots in Canada we want to have it in all true areas of

1000
01:02:18,653 --> 01:02:22,174
all provinces because not only is this program teaching

1001
01:02:22,214 --> 01:02:25,876
students about plastic pollution Um, but part of their curriculum

1002
01:02:25,956 --> 01:02:29,437
is to go out and do a cleanup. Um, and

1003
01:02:29,677 --> 01:02:33,338
you know, again, kind of like my story is, you know, you're

1004
01:02:33,358 --> 01:02:36,599
going to clean stuff up. You're not going to pick up thousands and thousands of pounds of

1005
01:02:36,619 --> 01:02:39,941
stuff, but what you are going to learn is what is prevalent in

1006
01:02:39,981 --> 01:02:43,282
your community. And most of the time, these students are picking up their own

1007
01:02:43,342 --> 01:02:46,663
garbage. So again, they have that connection to

1008
01:02:46,783 --> 01:02:49,984
it and be like, Oh, you know, and maybe, maybe I

1009
01:02:50,404 --> 01:02:53,463
should try something different at home or. advocate for maybe a

1010
01:02:53,503 --> 01:02:56,947
different snack or whatever it might be. But then they're also,

1011
01:02:56,967 --> 01:03:00,110
you know, we give them those tools and materials to

1012
01:03:00,150 --> 01:03:03,514
look at what they're finding. And, you know, say

1013
01:03:03,614 --> 01:03:08,300
that, you know, they're in Halifax, we give them the waste management rules

1014
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,523
here by the city of what they should do with what they find and where it should

1015
01:03:11,543 --> 01:03:15,660
be diverted to. most of the time, 9 chances

1016
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:19,001
out of 10, they're going to learn that what they're finding is actually, there is

1017
01:03:19,061 --> 01:03:23,422
no end of life for it. It's just garbage. But

1018
01:03:23,462 --> 01:03:27,523
that therein emphasizes the importance of, well, looking

1019
01:03:27,783 --> 01:03:32,564
at what you found and what are the alternatives? Are there alternatives? And

1020
01:03:32,844 --> 01:03:36,225
if there aren't, well, how do we make sure that there are alternatives? So this

1021
01:03:36,265 --> 01:03:39,646
program is really a caveat for

1022
01:03:39,666 --> 01:03:44,028
it, or sorry, not a caveat, but a conduit for them to really

1023
01:03:44,268 --> 01:03:47,550
have that critical thinking about what they're using. And to your point, you

1024
01:03:47,570 --> 01:03:50,992
know, when you have, you know, your kids who

1025
01:03:51,052 --> 01:03:54,354
are like thinking, oh my, what does this one Starbucks cup mean? I don't even think

1026
01:03:54,414 --> 01:03:58,076
about it being pollution. But when you start to pick up those items

1027
01:03:58,136 --> 01:04:01,818
and you're seeing it, you start to think about it as pollution at that point when

1028
01:04:01,858 --> 01:04:05,059
you make that connection. So that program's been

1029
01:04:05,099 --> 01:04:08,181
really amazing to see grow. And what we started doing since you

1030
01:04:08,241 --> 01:04:11,623
and I started, or since you and I spoke last was, a

1031
01:04:11,703 --> 01:04:15,507
pre and post survey for the students. So essentially,

1032
01:04:15,968 --> 01:04:19,111
what do they know going into the program? What do they know

1033
01:04:19,151 --> 01:04:23,135
about plastic pollution, about the impacts? What is a circular economy? What

1034
01:04:23,195 --> 01:04:26,338
are their behavioral instincts when it comes to if

1035
01:04:26,398 --> 01:04:30,262
they do care about reducing and what does that look like for them? And

1036
01:04:30,302 --> 01:04:33,685
then we survey them at the end of the program basically the

1037
01:04:33,725 --> 01:04:37,087
same questions to really see, have they learned anything?

1038
01:04:37,687 --> 01:04:40,829
And what's been really interesting to see, we're still compiling the

1039
01:04:40,849 --> 01:04:43,970
results from this past year, but in the

1040
01:04:43,990 --> 01:04:47,271
third year of the program, or sorry, the second year,

1041
01:04:48,112 --> 01:04:51,313
what we saw was that at the beginning, so many students put

1042
01:04:51,353 --> 01:04:55,215
recycling as their main way

1043
01:04:55,255 --> 01:04:58,375
to solve the plastic pollution crisis. At the end of the

1044
01:04:58,415 --> 01:05:02,096
program, we actually saw that significantly decrease

1045
01:05:02,616 --> 01:05:05,917
and see varied increases in

1046
01:05:06,017 --> 01:05:09,818
other areas. So for example, we saw more students say reuse

1047
01:05:09,878 --> 01:05:14,259
is important or we need to reduce, we need to find alternatives. So

1048
01:05:14,299 --> 01:05:17,840
that was exactly what we want to see because again, we

1049
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:22,521
know that recycling isn't the only way to solve the problem. So

1050
01:05:22,541 --> 01:05:26,491
seeing that program grow has been really, really fulfilling and rewarding. especially

1051
01:05:26,511 --> 01:05:30,033
again, seeing the distribution across Canada and

1052
01:05:30,073 --> 01:05:34,135
seeing, you know, really pick up in places like the prairies where previously

1053
01:05:34,175 --> 01:05:37,557
we hadn't had a footprint there. So seeing the support from

1054
01:05:37,597 --> 01:05:41,459
those communities has been really, really great. And again,

1055
01:05:41,499 --> 01:05:45,060
hopefully what we do with that data that we're collecting from all these students

1056
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,823
and all these schools, is we're then able to go

1057
01:05:48,843 --> 01:05:52,366
to the communities themselves and identify what's

1058
01:05:52,386 --> 01:05:56,268
happening in their communities. Even I've gone to my counselors here in Halifax saying

1059
01:05:56,949 --> 01:06:00,512
40% of what my students picked up here is takeaway

1060
01:06:00,552 --> 01:06:04,775
food packaging. What are we gonna do about that? And

1061
01:06:04,815 --> 01:06:08,057
again, that's where Mind Your Plastic can also come in with our, again,

1062
01:06:08,097 --> 01:06:11,580
municipal policy support, as well as helping

1063
01:06:11,620 --> 01:06:15,124
businesses find those true alternatives so that they're not just Again,

1064
01:06:15,144 --> 01:06:18,926
it's doing that one for one swap of plastic straws for paper or

1065
01:06:19,546 --> 01:06:22,768
plastic packaging to compostable packaging that it seems to be so

1066
01:06:25,949 --> 01:06:29,331
Yeah, and it seems here like you have, I guess, a business part where

1067
01:06:30,051 --> 01:06:33,633
it's like a plastic kit or a reduction plastic kit. Yeah. Can

1068
01:06:36,214 --> 01:06:39,467
Yeah. So for our business side of things,

1069
01:06:39,507 --> 01:06:42,728
we have a program called the Plastic Awareness and

1070
01:06:42,768 --> 01:06:46,329
Reduction Toolkits. So those are on our website and they are absolutely

1071
01:06:46,389 --> 01:06:49,810
free to download. What we've created are

1072
01:06:50,030 --> 01:06:54,572
four different toolkits that help walk various

1073
01:06:54,652 --> 01:06:58,093
industries like manufacturing, retail, food

1074
01:06:58,173 --> 01:07:01,315
services, office and admin. It just, it

1075
01:07:01,355 --> 01:07:04,498
serves as like a basic guide to how

1076
01:07:04,538 --> 01:07:08,161
to eliminate plastic in your business. And it goes through

1077
01:07:08,181 --> 01:07:11,585
the like, you know, what are the best things that you could be doing

1078
01:07:11,865 --> 01:07:15,168
if you really want to, you know, if you have the resources and you're keen to

1079
01:07:15,208 --> 01:07:18,631
go through and get rid of all these plastics in your

1080
01:07:18,691 --> 01:07:21,914
workplace. If you don't have those resources or if you're not quite there yet,

1081
01:07:21,954 --> 01:07:25,117
what are some of the great things that you could be doing? And then

1082
01:07:25,438 --> 01:07:28,701
if you're still not able to do that, where can you start and

1083
01:07:28,942 --> 01:07:32,786
start to build up? So these are, again,

1084
01:07:32,826 --> 01:07:36,270
they're meant to be quite general in nature, but at least as a starting point.

1085
01:07:36,731 --> 01:07:40,735
And this was really born out of, you know, again, recognizing

1086
01:07:40,775 --> 01:07:45,500
that a lot of the businesses that I spoke to around my community There

1087
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,902
was some great work happening to, this was before

1088
01:07:48,942 --> 01:07:52,725
the ban, to eliminate single-use plastics, more

1089
01:07:52,765 --> 01:07:56,487
so from food services and small cafes and whatnot. And

1090
01:07:56,547 --> 01:07:59,689
speaking with them, what a lot of them did,

1091
01:07:59,710 --> 01:08:03,072
they didn't implement reuse. They didn't allow people to

1092
01:08:03,112 --> 01:08:07,455
bring their own cups or anything like that. What they did do is they

1093
01:08:07,475 --> 01:08:11,298
swapped for compostables, they swapped for different materials,

1094
01:08:11,338 --> 01:08:14,581
but it was still disposable. And the unfortunate part with

1095
01:08:14,621 --> 01:08:17,924
that is we know small businesses are not, they

1096
01:08:17,944 --> 01:08:21,367
don't have great margins usually. Usually they tend to be more passion

1097
01:08:21,407 --> 01:08:29,354
projects, they're not getting rich for the most part. So what is equally disappointing

1098
01:08:29,755 --> 01:08:33,428
is when there's folks who want to do the right thing, And

1099
01:08:34,009 --> 01:08:38,392
they're trying, but the unfortunate thing is a lot of these alternatives are

1100
01:08:38,452 --> 01:08:42,595
expensive. They're 30% more. So

1101
01:08:42,655 --> 01:08:47,098
when you switch to compostables, it's more money. And it's

1102
01:08:47,278 --> 01:08:51,020
actually worse for the environment because there is no true end of life for these compostable

1103
01:08:51,060 --> 01:08:54,543
materials. There does not exist a municipality in

1104
01:08:54,583 --> 01:08:58,465
Canada that can break down these compostable items.

1105
01:08:58,785 --> 01:09:02,086
It doesn't exist. So these toolkits are

1106
01:09:02,146 --> 01:09:05,367
really just designed to give that

1107
01:09:05,427 --> 01:09:08,788
basic knowledge to folks who are interested. And

1108
01:09:08,828 --> 01:09:13,349
then what we're able to do then is if there needs to be more customization.

1109
01:09:13,429 --> 01:09:16,830
So for example, we're working with a, it's

1110
01:09:16,870 --> 01:09:20,111
an international transportation and logistics company, and we're working with

1111
01:09:20,131 --> 01:09:23,581
their Canadian division, cause they've been mandated get

1112
01:09:23,621 --> 01:09:27,102
rid of single-use plastics in our operations. Take an assessment, look

1113
01:09:27,122 --> 01:09:30,404
at it all, and get rid of it." And they're looking at

1114
01:09:32,344 --> 01:09:35,506
It's not easy. What do we do? Yeah. It's not easy. So that's where we

1115
01:09:35,546 --> 01:09:39,347
come in to help them do those assessments, look at what's, again,

1116
01:09:39,387 --> 01:09:42,568
what's reasonable. What are those low-hanging fruit that you can

1117
01:09:42,688 --> 01:09:46,090
at least pull back and eliminate off the hop with very

1118
01:09:46,150 --> 01:09:49,672
minimal you know, barriers to success. And

1119
01:09:49,712 --> 01:09:52,814
then what are those maybe a little bit more complicated ones that might involve, you

1120
01:09:52,834 --> 01:09:55,876
know, getting your suppliers on board? You know, I

1121
01:09:55,916 --> 01:09:59,259
think of an example of a business that I've spoken to, that

1122
01:09:59,499 --> 01:10:02,901
all their items were coming individually, they were clothing, they were individually wrapped,

1123
01:10:03,862 --> 01:10:07,364
each article of clothing was wrapped, even like every

1124
01:10:07,605 --> 01:10:10,826
and This is very common. Every piece of

1125
01:10:10,986 --> 01:10:14,907
underwear, every pair of socks, it's all individually

1126
01:10:14,947 --> 01:10:18,789
wrapped. So again, looking at your supplier and saying, does

1127
01:10:18,829 --> 01:10:22,150
it all need to be individually wrapped? Maybe if we need to bulk

1128
01:10:22,250 --> 01:10:25,932
wrap some of it, if it's not completely reasonable to get rid of every single

1129
01:10:25,952 --> 01:10:29,153
plastic bag, or even you think of stuffed animals, usually they're

1130
01:10:29,459 --> 01:10:32,902
they have plastic beads inside of them, nurdles is what they're called.

1131
01:10:33,762 --> 01:10:36,985
So instead of those, is there something else we can be using? So looking at what

1132
01:10:37,025 --> 01:10:40,566
are the you

1133
01:10:40,606 --> 01:10:43,827
know, not only the better things for the environment, but also that

1134
01:10:43,867 --> 01:10:47,388
are still sustainable from a financial standpoint,

1135
01:10:47,428 --> 01:10:50,869
and that can also recognize cost recovery options.

1136
01:10:50,969 --> 01:10:54,310
So that's a bit about our toolkits. And again, there's

1137
01:10:54,350 --> 01:10:57,531
those four industries that we chose to focus on

1138
01:10:57,631 --> 01:11:01,112
because, you know, given our alignment with the Canada Plastics Pact

1139
01:11:01,272 --> 01:11:04,903
and the Circular Economy Leadership Council of

1140
01:11:04,983 --> 01:11:08,504
Canada. Those were the four that we had folks

1141
01:11:08,584 --> 01:11:12,305
in those industries look through, vet, and we

1142
01:11:12,325 --> 01:11:15,606
felt we had the best alignment there. But of

1143
01:11:15,686 --> 01:11:19,247
course, there's opportunities to reduce plastic in literally

1144
01:11:19,307 --> 01:11:22,928
any industry. So we're always happy to chat reduction measures.

1145
01:11:23,815 --> 01:11:27,458
You can always reach out if that's ever something that folks listening want some

1146
01:11:27,878 --> 01:11:31,060
Well, and I think it's so interesting because you gain so

1147
01:11:31,100 --> 01:11:34,242
much experience working with these companies to find it. Because a lot

1148
01:11:34,262 --> 01:11:38,004
of the times, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, of course, you're

1149
01:11:38,044 --> 01:11:41,387
probably looking for first-time things. If an entire

1150
01:11:41,447 --> 01:11:46,930
transportation company is trying to get rid of single use, That's

1151
01:11:46,970 --> 01:11:50,291
a challenge in every aspect of the way because it's not as

1152
01:11:50,371 --> 01:11:53,552
if that is like those differences or those

1153
01:11:53,632 --> 01:11:57,193
changes are abundant in every company because we've just

1154
01:11:57,233 --> 01:12:00,314
been doing probably the cheapest way, which is

1155
01:12:00,374 --> 01:12:03,655
just disposing of everything. And so I think that the experience that

1156
01:12:03,675 --> 01:12:07,476
you're gaining from these four, the retail, food service, manufacturing

1157
01:12:07,496 --> 01:12:11,817
and office administration, you're probably gaining so much more experience each

1158
01:12:11,877 --> 01:12:16,063
and every time you work with an organization or a company to say, let's

1159
01:12:16,103 --> 01:12:19,504
help you out here. And I love how the fact that you're able to do that.

1160
01:12:20,384 --> 01:12:23,905
I think that's great. That's a great partner program. I

1161
01:12:23,945 --> 01:12:27,086
think that's wonderful. You have one more program on your website that

1162
01:12:27,106 --> 01:12:31,327
talks about the plastic free events when you work with municipalities.

1163
01:12:31,367 --> 01:12:34,928
So a little bit of a larger scale. So you've got like the classroom scale,

1164
01:12:34,948 --> 01:12:38,148
you've got the business scale. Now you're working with

1165
01:12:38,208 --> 01:12:41,729
municipalities to do plastic free events. How difficult is

1166
01:12:46,329 --> 01:12:49,711
to get the municipalities to be on board with it, it is

1167
01:12:49,751 --> 01:12:52,952
a bit challenging. And it becomes a little more challenging depending on

1168
01:12:52,972 --> 01:12:56,694
where you are. So for example, here in Halifax, it

1169
01:12:56,754 --> 01:13:00,976
is a bit more challenging because we don't have reused serviceware providers that

1170
01:13:00,996 --> 01:13:05,178
would support at events. Because if you think of when you go to an event, whether

1171
01:13:05,238 --> 01:13:08,359
it's your community backyard barbecue all the

1172
01:13:08,399 --> 01:13:11,661
way up to a Taylor Swift concert taking over a

1173
01:13:11,721 --> 01:13:15,023
city for a week, You know, you look

1174
01:13:15,043 --> 01:13:20,087
at those venues and what they all have in common is they use disposables. There

1175
01:13:20,187 --> 01:13:23,550
is a way around it, but it's not the easiest way around it.

1176
01:13:24,451 --> 01:13:28,054
So our Plastic Free Events Policy Program was really born out

1177
01:13:28,155 --> 01:13:31,818
of recognizing that, you know, as a small organization, as

1178
01:13:31,878 --> 01:13:35,021
I mentioned, we're three full-time staff. You

1179
01:13:35,061 --> 01:13:38,605
know, so to advocate and to, you know, look at federal

1180
01:13:38,685 --> 01:13:42,129
level policy changes is outside of scope in

1181
01:13:42,169 --> 01:13:45,873
terms of the capacity that we have as an organization. But also, you

1182
01:13:45,913 --> 01:13:49,197
know, we feel really strongly that a lot of this change that is happening in

1183
01:13:49,237 --> 01:13:52,461
Canada, it starts at a municipal level first. And again, I

1184
01:13:52,501 --> 01:13:56,693
can think of Halifax. We banned plastic bags like

1185
01:13:56,733 --> 01:13:59,994
15 years ago, if not more. So a lot

1186
01:14:00,014 --> 01:14:03,415
of this change happens from a municipal level, moves

1187
01:14:03,475 --> 01:14:06,576
up to provincial, and then eventually might get

1188
01:14:06,616 --> 01:14:09,837
adopted by the feds. And again, the federal plastic ban, a

1189
01:14:09,877 --> 01:14:13,299
lot of those items that are included in that ban have already been banned

1190
01:14:13,339 --> 01:14:17,863
by many municipalities already, and even some provinces. You

1191
01:14:17,884 --> 01:14:21,008
know, we really feel that advocating on a municipal level is accessible for us

1192
01:14:21,068 --> 01:14:24,393
as an organization and is really where we see the change starting to

1193
01:14:24,433 --> 01:14:27,558
happen anyways, because, again, you have

1194
01:14:27,618 --> 01:14:30,823
passionate people who are empowered to

1195
01:14:30,883 --> 01:14:34,127
create change in their communities. What we did notice is,

1196
01:14:34,387 --> 01:14:37,930
again, I've talked about how bans can

1197
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:41,294
work, but they can also be very alienating. Again, think

1198
01:14:41,334 --> 01:14:44,817
of the plastic straws that people are smuggling across the border, even

1199
01:14:44,837 --> 01:14:48,221
though they can totally still buy them here, but whatever. People

1200
01:14:48,241 --> 01:14:52,185
get upset when you try and change the behaviors. So what

1201
01:14:52,225 --> 01:14:55,647
we look at is, you know, We see plastic free

1202
01:14:55,687 --> 01:14:58,868
events happening in certain places in the US, we see

1203
01:14:58,908 --> 01:15:01,929
them happening in the UK, and we feel it's a

1204
01:15:02,049 --> 01:15:05,871
really low-hanging fruit way to introduce

1205
01:15:05,951 --> 01:15:09,492
people to what's possible in terms of reuse and

1206
01:15:09,552 --> 01:15:12,674
reduction. So again, I even think of one

1207
01:15:12,694 --> 01:15:16,615
of our partners, ShareWares, which is a reusable cup or

1208
01:15:17,075 --> 01:15:20,198
food serviceware provider. that's working with places like

1209
01:15:20,238 --> 01:15:23,642
Tim Hortons in Vancouver as well as your other local coffee

1210
01:15:23,682 --> 01:15:27,186
shop so that when you go and you don't remember to bring your own reusable

1211
01:15:27,226 --> 01:15:30,490
mug or maybe you're a tourist and you're on the go, you don't want

1212
01:15:30,510 --> 01:15:33,736
to carry around a reusable mug with you. Fair enough, I get

1213
01:15:33,776 --> 01:15:37,259
it. But what you can do is you can get a reusable cup,

1214
01:15:37,659 --> 01:15:41,002
pay a deposit, return it somewhere else in the city

1215
01:15:41,082 --> 01:15:44,224
and get your deposit back or donate it to a charity like

1216
01:15:44,264 --> 01:15:47,567
Mind Your Plastic. So what's been really cool to

1217
01:15:47,607 --> 01:15:50,770
see is organizations like ShareWares have

1218
01:15:50,910 --> 01:15:54,433
even been able to go into places like BC Place for

1219
01:15:54,473 --> 01:15:57,836
the Taylor Swift concert so that instead of cracking a beer and pouring

1220
01:15:57,876 --> 01:16:01,125
it into a single-use plastic cup, it's being put into

1221
01:16:01,145 --> 01:16:04,406
a reusable cup that is now then going to get sanitized and reused and

1222
01:16:04,426 --> 01:16:07,667
put back into circulation. So when you look at plastic free

1223
01:16:07,687 --> 01:16:10,828
events, that's kind of what we're looking at is how do you

1224
01:16:10,888 --> 01:16:15,409
influence that on large scale events, or even again, when we're

1225
01:16:15,449 --> 01:16:19,030
working with the city of Nanaimo, for example, on

1226
01:16:19,310 --> 01:16:22,771
how when they have just a community event, you have a rib fest or

1227
01:16:23,211 --> 01:16:27,540
whatever it might be, something as simple as Having

1228
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,141
water refill stations instead of $6 bottles

1229
01:16:31,181 --> 01:16:34,523
of water that no one wants to buy. Let's be honest. But

1230
01:16:34,543 --> 01:16:38,344
then even how do you identify cost recovery savings

1231
01:16:38,424 --> 01:16:41,625
for your vendors? So again, maybe they have to

1232
01:16:41,685 --> 01:16:45,307
pay to use this service or to have their event

1233
01:16:45,367 --> 01:16:48,784
permit. But there's a cost recovery because

1234
01:16:48,804 --> 01:16:53,528
they're not having to pay to use all of their disposable forks,

1235
01:16:53,729 --> 01:16:57,132
knives, ketchup sachets, things like that, because

1236
01:16:57,192 --> 01:17:00,535
as part of the event, they're having reuse services there.

1237
01:17:00,875 --> 01:17:04,119
So there's so many different applications for how this

1238
01:17:04,159 --> 01:17:07,282
could work. And depending on the size of the municipality and what

1239
01:17:07,322 --> 01:17:10,945
they have available to them, But really,

1240
01:17:11,206 --> 01:17:14,429
it just comes down to, you know, what are the changes that work

1241
01:17:14,449 --> 01:17:17,693
best for your community? And where Mind Your Plastic really comes into

1242
01:17:17,733 --> 01:17:21,798
this is, we know municipalities, you know,

1243
01:17:21,958 --> 01:17:25,162
they don't tend to have tons of money that they can just throw around and

1244
01:17:25,202 --> 01:17:28,847
everything. And the way we look at it is we have all this information, we

1245
01:17:28,907 --> 01:17:33,100
have all the policies. why recreate the wheel with municipal

1246
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,302
staff when we already have everything and we can help

1247
01:17:36,902 --> 01:17:40,164
Cost saving and time saving is beautiful for

1248
01:17:43,066 --> 01:17:47,048
That's a huge thing. Well, this has been amazing, Natasha. You

1249
01:17:47,408 --> 01:17:50,650
guys have done such a great job at moving this

1250
01:17:51,330 --> 01:17:54,732
movement forward, really, of getting rid

1251
01:17:54,752 --> 01:17:58,094
of plastic and really working with the people

1252
01:17:58,174 --> 01:18:01,475
who need to get rid of plastic, you know, at all the different levels. And we really

1253
01:18:01,515 --> 01:18:04,896
appreciate the work that Mind Your Plastic is doing and that your staff and

1254
01:18:04,916 --> 01:18:08,358
you are continuing to do and relentlessly working

1255
01:18:08,598 --> 01:18:11,659
at You know, really changing behaviors is really what it

1256
01:18:11,699 --> 01:18:15,000
comes down to and working with that resistance that

1257
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:18,661
you get with all of that. But I think it's

1258
01:18:18,721 --> 01:18:21,823
great that you do it. I love the work that you're doing and I'm looking forward to

1259
01:18:21,863 --> 01:18:25,084
having you back on to talk about more of the programs and the successes that you've

1260
01:18:26,580 --> 01:18:29,761
Amazing. Happy to come back anytime. I'm sure there's going to be lots to

1261
01:18:31,942 --> 01:18:35,983
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. This is not going away. We definitely know that.

1262
01:18:36,343 --> 01:18:39,384
That's for sure. I'm looking forward to being able to talk to you about it.

1263
01:18:39,404 --> 01:18:43,025
Thank you so much. Well, we won't wait two years for the next interview, that's

1264
01:18:47,183 --> 01:18:50,405
Thank you, Natasha, for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean

1265
01:18:50,425 --> 01:18:53,607
podcast. I told you it was a great conversation about plastic. It

1266
01:18:53,627 --> 01:18:57,189
was a lot of fun to be able to go back and forth on what's happening

1267
01:18:57,369 --> 01:19:00,491
with the way we're dealing with plastic, not only around the world, but

1268
01:19:00,551 --> 01:19:03,854
here in Canada, in my home country, to say, hey, you know what? We have

1269
01:19:03,874 --> 01:19:07,536
some interesting policies that are banning single-use plastics,

1270
01:19:07,956 --> 01:19:11,178
are saying that plastics are toxic to people. and that we need

1271
01:19:11,198 --> 01:19:14,279
to build on that, putting a registry together of plastics and

1272
01:19:14,359 --> 01:19:18,341
tracing where plastics go throughout its supply chain

1273
01:19:18,481 --> 01:19:21,782
and its life. And I think there's a lot of good things that are happening, but

1274
01:19:21,822 --> 01:19:25,244
it's meeting a lot of resistance that could really derail the

1275
01:19:25,304 --> 01:19:28,545
movement in trying to reduce the amount of plastics that we use

1276
01:19:29,045 --> 01:19:32,727
as a country. It just goes to show you that this is not an easy

1277
01:19:33,067 --> 01:19:36,829
fix. This is something that's going to take some time. There's a lot of complexities to

1278
01:19:36,869 --> 01:19:39,931
this. People are making a lot of money off of plastics, and they do not want to

1279
01:19:39,971 --> 01:19:43,272
give that up. So we're going to hear all about that in

1280
01:19:43,292 --> 01:19:47,014
the future. And a great example of that is the challenges that

1281
01:19:47,054 --> 01:19:50,316
the global treaty negotiators have faced in trying to

1282
01:19:50,436 --> 01:19:54,038
get, and advocates have faced in trying to get a global treaty

1283
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:58,101
agreed upon that actually has teeth to it. Now, there's

1284
01:19:58,121 --> 01:20:01,264
an extra meeting, a sixth meeting that's going to be planned, because the

1285
01:20:01,324 --> 01:20:04,588
fifth meeting, what was supposed to be the final meeting in South Korea, just

1286
01:20:04,648 --> 01:20:08,873
really, the major news that's coming out of there is basically, a

1287
01:20:08,913 --> 01:20:12,116
lot of countries want voluntary targets, and voluntary targets do

1288
01:20:12,156 --> 01:20:15,519
not work. That's not the teeth that we're talking about here.

1289
01:20:15,599 --> 01:20:19,802
So very difficult to get not only negotiated treaty

1290
01:20:19,822 --> 01:20:23,104
that has teeth, but also to get something that people

1291
01:20:23,144 --> 01:20:26,766
will ratify. It's not an easy thing. So we're

1292
01:20:26,806 --> 01:20:30,369
gonna talk about that in the future, but I'm glad Natasha was here to talk a lot about

1293
01:20:30,489 --> 01:20:33,791
plastics in general here in Canada. I hope you enjoyed the

1294
01:20:33,831 --> 01:20:37,093
conversation. I'll link to all of her social media so you can get

1295
01:20:37,433 --> 01:20:40,795
access to Mind Your Plastic. and get to know them a little bit more. I highly recommend that

1296
01:20:40,815 --> 01:20:44,036
you do as well as Natasha. And then if you want to get a hold of

1297
01:20:44,096 --> 01:20:47,338
me and you have any questions or comments on this episode or any other episode here

1298
01:20:47,378 --> 01:20:51,000
on the How to Protect the Ocean podcast, you can do so by going to Instagram, DMing

1299
01:20:51,020 --> 01:20:54,201
me at howtoprotecttheocean. That's all one word. I know it's

1300
01:20:54,241 --> 01:20:57,683
long, but at howtoprotecttheocean spelled out right in front of you. And

1301
01:20:57,703 --> 01:21:01,184
you can also just come in and say hello or

1302
01:21:01,264 --> 01:21:04,425
leave a comment on our YouTube channel, Spotify channel, as

1303
01:21:04,485 --> 01:21:07,767
well as all our other podcasts that we're on, on audio, on

1304
01:21:07,887 --> 01:21:11,188
Apple, on Overcast, whatever your favorite podcast app is,

1305
01:21:11,248 --> 01:21:14,570
you can follow, subscribe there. I want to thank you for joining me on today's

1306
01:21:14,610 --> 01:21:17,791
episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. Have