Balancing Sales Success and Service in Today's Economy with Greg Birch

Balancing Sales Success and Service in Today's Economy-Greg Birch

[00:00:00] Greg on Selling: And a lot of times when you listen to them, you can say, Hey, well, based on this, let me ask more questions.

[00:00:04] Greg on Selling: Right, right. It'll give you that full picture. And then you're just providing a service. It was like, well, sounds like I can help you. And this is what I have. And most times people will come to that conclusion themselves and say, actually, I need help with this. Do you help with this? And you're like, yes, actually I do.

[00:00:19] Greg on Selling: Now it's a much more organic conversation. It's not really selling. It's more promoting service 

[00:00:25] Welcome to Sales Made Easy, a podcast for business and personal growth. Join Harry Spaight, as he hosts sales experts and business owners who share their journeys of personal growth and business success now, here's your host, Harry. ​ 

[00:00:47] Thank you for listening to Sales Made Easy. If you found value in our conversations, please subscribe and leave a review. [00:01:00] Our goal is to provide practical strategies for growing your business while staying true to your values. Remember, six. Success in sales is about serving your clients. Serve first and the selling will follow.

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[00:01:14] Greg on Selling: Greg Birch, I got to believe I'm pronouncing that correctly. You are great.

[00:01:22] Greg on Selling: You know for those of you who don't know, Greg and I recently met at creative con in Chicago or outside of Chicago in February. And this fellow is full of energy. And he came backstage to where I was trying to get pumped up before my speech and I was listening to my ACDC music and Greg started chatting with me and we're talking about getting fired up before we go on stage.

[00:01:54] Greg on Selling: And Greg's a big fan of Tony Robbins, shared some insight with me about Tony Robbins. [00:02:00] Now I. Want to go see Tony, Tony Robbins and walk on fire. But I said, I've got to get this guy, Greg Birch on my podcast. I love his energy. So we'll figure out what he does, but I'm pretty sure it's related to sales and leadership, communication, all those good things.

[00:02:18] Greg on Selling: Greg, welcome to the sales made easy podcast. What's the good word. What's the good word. First off here. I appreciate you letting me just have me on your show with you. There's always a, there's always a. Blessing and a pleasure of mine to come and speak. So thank you, man. But yeah, so like you said, we met at creative con.

[00:02:39] Greg on Selling: And we were, we're both, you and I spoke on stage. That was incredible and bad, by the way, or I was just, it was a really fun event and a lot of different connections that I made with some really great people. And so yeah, a little bit about me. I prior army officer, I served for 11 years. Actually one of the [00:03:00] jobs that I did was I was a, I was a interrogator slash source handler.

[00:03:07] Greg on Selling: So basically I talked to people that I would find out that they had information that I, that I wanted because they were connected to people that were bad or they were bad people themselves, but, but a little less bad than the worst people. Right. Right. And I would convince them that it was a good idea to give me the information through, through becoming, through influence, through, you know, sometimes elicitation techniques that we were, that we would teach or just Being friendly, like finding commonality with them.

[00:03:39] Greg on Selling: And so very similar to sales. And then I got out, got out of the military and I got into insurance sales as an individual insurance agent, you know, banging my head against the wall for a while until I started realizing how to sell better. And then I started breaking sales records, which got me to start my podcast.

[00:03:58] Greg on Selling: Cause I started helping [00:04:00] sales agents to with, with sales techniques and what I was doing, because I was breaking so many records and people just kept coming to me and asking me like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Let's. Answering the same question over and over and over again. So instead I was like, Hey, let's go check out my podcast.

[00:04:13] Greg on Selling: Right. Which is how I. I've long term roundabout got linked up with Julie and got into, got to creative comp, and then I created my own age, my own insurance agency IMO called Delta financial. And then through that, I had some other things that started, I started doing coaching and it's, and it's coaching on through fitness fitness and nutrition, but it's really to help you in all areas of your life.

[00:04:39] Greg on Selling: So if you're in business with your family, with your finances, et cetera, To help you get more alignment in life through your physical, mental, and spiritual self. That's a little bit about me. Excellent stuff. So first of all, thank you for your service serving the United States of America. It's a great country.

[00:04:58] Greg on Selling: And you did that for 11 [00:05:00] years. And you are doing this great work of interrogating people. And if you don't see Greg standing up, he is a somewhat of a giant of a man, he's six, seven is built like a tree. And so I can imagine if you want information for me, it's coming out quickly. Yeah. Yeah. The, the height actually works against me at times.

[00:05:26] Greg on Selling: Most times, a lot of times it works for me. Are you six, seven? I just, I think I saw six, seven somewhere. I heard you say, I set it up my speech. Okay. All right. That's how I open my speech. Cause everyone always asks me, man, how tall are you? So I was like, Hey, I'm going to answer a question that 80 percent of you are thinking right now, right?

[00:05:44] Greg on Selling: That's so funny. So did you see yourself going through all of that as. I mean, I'm curious as to how you got into sales and why sales after all of this energy spent in a army and career [00:06:00] opportunities that probably will come in your way. Why sales? Great question, Harry. The reason why is because.

[00:06:08] Greg on Selling: When I got out of the military, when I was in the process of getting out, I was, I was a senior captain. I'd actually got selected to get promoted to major. And so and if I, if I would have took that promotion, it would have kind of locked me in or to retirement. So 20 years, and I was like, yeah, If I'm going to take this promotion, I might as well say for 20, but I was like a part of me kind of wanted to go out and see what I could do as a civilian.

[00:06:32] Greg on Selling: So I started to get out my 10 year mark, but it took me about a year because I had to do some medical stuff from injuries. I had stuff like that. So it just took a little bit longer. But, while I was going through my outboarding, which took about a year, there's, there are companies that are what they're called JMO head hunters, which is junior military officer.

[00:06:51] Greg on Selling: And they specialize in helping Officers that get out of all the services and they, and they link them up with fortune 500 [00:07:00] companies or fortune 100 companies to help them get on executive level tracks. And what they do is they translate the skills, the responsibilities and the job performances that you did while you're military.

[00:07:12] Greg on Selling: And they do that because a lot of the, like, as an officer, you are an executive level track. It's, we don't say, we don't have the same verbiage or the same language, right. That that corporate America does. So that's their entire job is to, is to do that. So what they do first is they put you through a personality assessment and they look at your entire record And then they tell you what jobs you'd be best for.

[00:07:38] Greg on Selling: And I scored very high in my influence and my leadership abilities. And so they put me high in leadership and high in sales. And so they, they just based off of my, my demeanor, my personality, and then my experience. And so I started doing all this prep work to get into sales jobs and [00:08:00] reading, they gave me a bunch of books to read.

[00:08:02] Greg on Selling: Like books, like how I mean, just a fantastic Dale Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people move my cheese, to sell as human by Daniel, Daniel pink. And there was another, another one that I read, but I'm surprised selling with dignity. Didn't it come to the top of the list?

[00:08:22] Greg on Selling: What? So, so I, I read all these books, I got prepared and then I ended up getting out before they had a job fair. So, because they only have job fairs at certain, it's like every three months. And so I got out in between two job fairs. So I ended up.

[00:08:38] Greg on Selling: But he was working at a different company, not a sales jobs, like a leadership job as a district, you got me a job there. I hated it. And so I started looking at it. And this is about 3 months. I was working there. I figured out a military and I was on indeed looking for positions and 1 of the positions.

[00:08:57] Greg on Selling: It was a very nondescript [00:09:00] company with a nondescript. It was just like sales, Sales senior sales manager, something like that. And it was like looking for people with sales and leadership experience. And I was like, dude, that's exactly what I scored high in. Right. Cause like, this is right up my alley and, and the, the, the, the pay, the pay range fit what I was looking for.

[00:09:20] Greg on Selling: And so I went and applied for it. And when I showed up, it was a life insurance company. That was like all fully commissioned and it was like all this, and I was like, this is, this is a little bit such like, this doesn't seem right. Right. They, they lied to get me here. That's a bad sign. But the reason I stayed and I did it is because everyone that worked there, they all, they all drove nice cars, had nice suits, fitted, like fitted suits, nice watches, like, They were all making money.

[00:09:52] Greg on Selling: And so I was like, at the time, I was just like, I just want to make money right now. And I need, I need an opportunity that I can make some, make some good cash. [00:10:00] And and so I took it and I was like, if I don't like it, then I'll, I'll get out. Right. So I got my license and. Yeah, I've been in insurance ever since, that's seven years ago.

[00:10:11] Greg on Selling: Wow. And you yeah, so not, it's funny, the, the, the jokes about life insurance salesmen, they escaped me now, but I mean, Woody Allen, a hundred years ago, talk about the jokes of the life insurance salesmen, like it was the lowest of the low. And yet, Do you seem to have done pretty well? And what's your attitude like about selling life insurance?

[00:10:37] Greg on Selling: I think selling life insurance is like selling anything. Honestly. No one wants to talk about life insurance. Cause no one wants to think like, Oh, I'm going to die. Like no one really lives with that kind of perspective. And then if you, when you do have that conversation, it's not that they're like nine times out of 10, they're not negative.

[00:10:53] Greg on Selling: Like, Oh, I don't, I don't want to talk about this because it's like, I don't want to think about dying. It's just like, nobody's really like, [00:11:00] Yeah, I could die tomorrow. Like that could like, and it could, I could, I could walk outside and go to get my, my mail, my mailbox and a meteor could come hurtling through space and hit me where I stand and kill me.

[00:11:11] Greg on Selling: Like it could happen, right? The likeliness is unlikely. So since the, the probability is so, is so low on all these things, you don't think about it. And so trying to get people to think about it is still even more difficult just because they don't, it does. It's not conceivable almost. Yeah. Right until, until something happens that hits close to home.

[00:11:34] Greg on Selling: And so it's having these very emotionally charged conversations with people that I have to get them to imagine worst case scenarios and then get them to plan for that worst case scenario if it were to happen and, and then, and then backwards playing from there. So. You know, looking back, if, if I could do [00:12:00] it all again, I would probably pick a different industry to be honest.

[00:12:04] Greg on Selling: But I would still do sales. Yeah. What, what makes you say that it's just, is it because of the challenge of going into that place where you just described is, would that be the reason that it's kind of a darker place or. It's because it's, it's for, it's a multitude of reasons. Yeah. Right? It's, it's a confluence of, of multiple reasons, one of them being that the other being like right now, everyone, the economy's, So I don't know if I can curse on here, but I can't, I'm sorry.

[00:12:38] Greg on Selling: We could say the economy is going down the tubes. You want to say that? So so the economy, our, our, our inflation is, is ridiculous, right? The, the mortgage rates are higher than they've ever been. And people are having a tougher time living at the same quality and standard that they have been say [00:13:00] three, four years ago.

[00:13:01] Greg on Selling: So when you get to that point where the dollar doesn't stretch as far nine times out of 10, what a family is going to do is they're going to look at their budget and they're going to start getting rid of things that they don't need. I hate to say it, but it's true. But the fact of the reality is, is that the 1st thing that people get rid of a life insurance policies every single time.

[00:13:24] Greg on Selling: Right? And so if I have a book of business that I'm getting paid on, and that's my income and we go into a recession. And now people are just canceling policies that eats into my income and, and, and having to ride that wave constantly of like, okay, well, not, I got to go out and start selling a ton to make up for this loss of income.

[00:13:45] Greg on Selling: It's, it's just a constant back and forth battle. Right? Well, you just described really what. Business is in a lot. I mean, there's very few businesses that just have an upward [00:14:00] trend. There's a lot of back and forth with economic situations. So, which is super helpful, right? This, this idea of like, It's easy for a while.

[00:14:13] Greg on Selling: I get where I want to be and then it gets hard again. I mean, I wish there was a better answer. I'm not sure what that answer is, but when you have it, let me know. Because it, it, there's so much that's dependent on outside circumstances. So what is it that you do? When you're, when you're seeing your, you know, your financial situation change in front of your very eyes, because you know, the economy has gone downhill, what is it you do?

[00:14:45] Greg on Selling: Me? Well, since I'm an entrepreneur, I can control my own, my own destiny in terms of how much money I make. So it's really how much activity do I want to put in? Exactly. So I just put in, I just continue to put in more activity. [00:15:00] I mean, that's, that's, that's a blessing really like when you get used to being a 1099 salesperson in any, in any industry having the freedom to be able to turn up the heat and, and make more money, like that's, it's a double edged sword for sure.

[00:15:16] Greg on Selling: Because then it's like, you can, where you can let off the gas and you can really quickly get to a point to where. You were like, Oh, I'm, I'm in, I'm in a bad spot. Like, Holy crap, where am I at? And I'll be honest, I've been in that spot multiple times in my, in my, you know entrepreneur career, it took me a long time to learn how to stay even keel, not get too excited and not get too and let off the gas.

[00:15:40] Greg on Selling: And not get too desperate and have to put all, put, you know, all my effort on the gas and staying in a middle space where I stay even, right. Cause I don't want to do that roller coaster ride, which I've lived through for a good two years when I first started. Yeah. I think anyone who's been in sales to some degree has a bit of a [00:16:00] roller coaster.

[00:16:01] Greg on Selling: I mean, you have a killer year. And then, you know, the following year may not be a killer year and you've racked up some expenses or something like that, not that I've ever done that. But, just, just that smooth, you know, consistency is really what the key is. But yeah, I just find it interesting that when you say you control your destiny, I looked at it like I'm a sports fan.

[00:16:26] Greg on Selling: I think. You probably have some similar sports interests and over the years, Bill Parcells, one of his lines was, you are what your record says you are, and in sales. It's like every day you wake up, it's you and the opportunity ahead of you. You can say, I'm going to be great, or I'm going to take the day off.

[00:16:51] Greg on Selling: I'm going to sleep in, I'm going to do busy work, or I'm going to go out and make some calls and make stuff happen. We all get to [00:17:00] make that choice. And at the end, like say it was the end of the month and you say, well, my month isn't that great. You get to look back and say, what were my practices during the month?

[00:17:10] Greg on Selling: And if the practices were, I did a lot of busy work and, or I was. All about this huge opportunity that took all of my time and energy, which is there's some truth to that, but a lot of that is mental. It's mental bandwidth that it takes, takes from us. Whereas we probably had time to make more calls or do something that would be helpful in getting that consistency.

[00:17:38] Greg on Selling: So you said there was a couple of years where you were riding the roller coaster I remember one of the stories you mentioned in Chicago, you said that you kind of had a little bit of an ego and weren't really working as hard as maybe some people worked. Do you want to just touch on that? And then maybe we [00:18:00] can figure out how, where you fit the balance for that.

[00:18:03] Greg on Selling: Yeah. Yeah. So, and when I first started in sales, I think, I think a, a very difficult Entry point for salespeople is if you come in and you have a lot of success. Because what it does is it, it's, it's false data that you take and you think, Oh, well, I'm just really good at this. Right. And, and, and you pump up your ego, right?

[00:18:31] Greg on Selling: And you get to a point where you start, you don't do the necessary activities that are required for all successful, long term consistent, successful salespeople, and because you think that you're special. And so, that happened to me. And so I had a lot of like initial, like pop success, made some good money.

[00:18:58] Greg on Selling: And then [00:19:00] transition from a company, one company to another, to another got to this, you know, third company. And I was just like, you know, I was selling, but I wasn't selling a lot. And like people around me were like blowing me out of the water. And I was like, what is going on? And finally I reached out to this guy and I was like, Hey, man, what's going on?

[00:19:15] Greg on Selling: Tell me, tell me how you're doing this. And, and he helped me. He gave me some help over the phone. He lived in another town. And he, he said, you know, Hey, I go to Dallas. I live in Dallas. He's like, Hey, I go to Dallas every once a month or so and go sell. Next time I'm there, we'll wake up. And in a couple of weeks later, he reached out to me.

[00:19:35] Greg on Selling: And just as he said, he wouldn't let me know that he had just got done with all of his appointments for that weekend. It was Saturday night. He was like, yeah, I fly out tomorrow, but you want to link up and and talk. And I was like, yeah, definitely. So he comes out and he meet me. And when we meet, he.

[00:19:52] Greg on Selling: He, you know, tells me how, how he did and that weekend he told 36, 000 in, in a weekend and for people that are in [00:20:00] insurance and don't know, like the 36, 000 in a weekend's ridiculous, average agent does 10, 000 a month. Okay. Average agent does. And that's, and that's like, good. Yeah. Let's say actually, actually average, if you're just looking at, I'm talking about average of who sells 8 percent of 8 percent of everyone that gets their life insurance license in the entire industry actually sell.

[00:20:23] Greg on Selling: That's the average. Okay. Okay. 92 percent of people. They don't sell at all. Like they'll, although they'll say like one or two policies and they'll fall off. So 90 percent of insurance sales agents, right? Wow. So 8 percent actually kind of stay consistent in it and that is, that isn't even that they're good.

[00:20:41] Greg on Selling: That just means that they consistently sell. And the average is about 10, 000 a month.

[00:20:45] Greg on Selling: So I'm like, dude, this guy's, this guy's, you know, over 10 X, what I did in a weekend for this month, and I'm like, you've got it, like you're, you're doing something unique or special or whatever. Like, what are you doing? Give me the secret sauce. [00:21:00] And so he responded to me by saying, well, let me ask you some questions and see what you're doing and see if I can help.

[00:21:06] Greg on Selling: I'm like, okay, yeah, So he goes through a list of questions, basic questions. And how often are you getting leads? How many dials are you doing a week? How many appointments are you setting? How many trainings are you going to? What's your calendar look like? Are you falling accountable? Like basic fundamentals questions.

[00:21:24] Greg on Selling: And I was tap dancing on every single one. Because I wasn't following fundamentals because I had success that I didn't thought I was beyond those fundamentals. And after he asked me any questions, he was, he just looked at me dead in my eyes and he was like, Greg, I know what your problem is, man. You think you're special and you're not.

[00:21:45] Greg on Selling: And, and for those of you that are listening, like at the time I had just, I'd been out of the military for a year, you know, I'm a prior army officer. I've deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. I've led soldiers in combat in this guy [00:22:00] who is a Russian American citizen. He's been, he's had his American citizenship for one year.

[00:22:05] Greg on Selling: Oh my goodness. He's at the thickest Russian accent ever. He looks like grew from despicable me. Like he's looking at me and telling me that I'm not special. And I'm like, bro, I don't know who you think you're talking to, but it ain't me. Right. But, but you know what, I sat there and I listened and I realized, and that message that he gave me that day became really impactful to me.

[00:22:29] Greg on Selling: It was like one of those times when you have a, you have somebody tell you something that you, that you need to hear, but you don't hear. And, and when I heard him say that, and when I reflected back on it, it's not that because a lot of people hear that and they're like, but I am special. And it's just like, no, you're unique.

[00:22:46] Greg on Selling: Special comes with it, a certain connotation that inside you think that somehow the rules don't apply to you. It's, it's, it's more of an ego. Like I'm special. I don't have to do this. Right. Only you do this. No, no. [00:23:00] Everyone's unique. Everyone has unique gifts. Everyone has unique talents, time and treasure, right?

[00:23:05] Greg on Selling: If we take out the thing of thinking that we're special. And we just start applying our own efforts to the same exact practices that the successful people are doing there'd be a lot more people are successful. And the problem that there's not is because people think that they're special. So, yeah, that's what that came down to and it changed my entire perspective.

[00:23:30] Greg on Selling: And what was your attitude on hearing this? I mean, were you, did the ego come up when we, or did you just say, this guy knows what he's talking about? I'm going to be completely coachable here. My initial reaction internally was who this guy think he is. And I stopped and I was like, but I didn't say anything.

[00:23:56] Greg on Selling: I said, you know what? I'm gonna listen and he, he just did 36, 000. [00:24:00] Yeah. He's got something to say. So then I listened and I listened and at the end of it, I was, he told me like, he went through all the questions point by point, what he does and what I should do, and it was simple as a simple plan. Yeah. So I was like, I'm going to follow everything he says.

[00:24:19] Greg on Selling: And, and, and if it doesn't work out, then I can look at and be like, dude, you were wrong, but I'm going to do it a hundred percent. And that's what I did. And I literally changed that, that, that year, this was in November of 2018. And that entire year, 2018, I sold about 75, 000 worth of life insurance, positive about 60, 65, 000, right?

[00:24:41] Greg on Selling: The following year I sold 425, 000 by applying everything that he told me to apply. I could say in person. Yeah. I was, I was. I just apply what he applied, what he told me to. So what were a couple of the changes, I'm sorry. I think I, okay. What were a couple of the [00:25:00] changes that you decided to take on? You said you did everything, but for the sake of time, what were a couple that were really important?

[00:25:08] Greg on Selling: You know, the biggest thing is, is really tracking your metrics. That's the, probably the biggest thing. Making sure that you track your metrics as a salesperson, like, and I talked, and I, I, I coach and train salespeople now. And so I'm like, Hey, do you know your metrics? And most people are like, well, we'll get on.

[00:25:24] Greg on Selling: I'm like, okay. So if I give you X amount of, well, it's like, what lead source do you use? I usually source. Okay. I give you 10 of these leads. How much money are you making? Well, it just depends. You don't know your numbers. You don't know your numbers. You're not tracking your metrics. I need, you need to track your metrics backwards and forwards so much that if it's like, I got 10 of these leads, I'm making 6, 000 bucks period.

[00:25:47] Greg on Selling: Cause you already know 10 of those leads is going to equal to X amount of appointments was going to lead to, or I'm going to do X amount of calls, which is going to net me X amount of appointments, which is going to net me X amount of. Presentations was going [00:26:00] to make me X amount of sales, which is going to net average of X amount of commission, period and stuff like you should know that backwards and forwards.

[00:26:09] Greg on Selling: Right. And then it just becomes a mathematics game of like, okay, you want to make instead of 6, 000, you want to make 10. Okay. Well then instead of 10 leads, now we got to go up to 16, right? And 16 leads it's. And then you just start playing with numbers. Okay. And, and so like I ended up creating a spreadsheet that tracks all this for agents where they, they'd actually get to track per call, every single dial, like, and not answer, not answer, not answer, answer, sudden appointment, answer, didn't set appointment, callback not answer, not answer.

[00:26:47] Greg on Selling: And then it takes all those numbers and it gives you, Hey, It takes you every 3. 6 calls, you get an answer every 6. 8 calls. You get an appointment. [00:27:00] So it's like, okay, well, I just need to seven, seven calls. I'm going to get an appointment. Right. And when you start to like actually break down the numbers like that, it becomes a lot more easy because it becomes like, it's almost gamifies it.

[00:27:11] Greg on Selling: Right. Yeah. And so, and so then you can break down of how many appointments, Hey, how many did actually show how many presentations did you do? How many sales did you do? And then you break out every single one of your sales. It automatically creates all those averages. And then it creates this spreadsheet on another tab where it's like, Hey, here's all every single month, January through February.

[00:27:30] Greg on Selling: Through December week by week, what's your sales. And then it starts to give you your averages based on. If your performance is going up or if it'll tell you like, Hey, it's taking you more leads to make the same amount of money, or Hey, it's taking you more dials to, to get the same amount of appointments, it'll actually start to highlight these things, or if it's getting better, like, Hey, you're getting more appointments with less dials.

[00:27:53] Greg on Selling: So whatever you do, so now you're like, okay, well, what am I doing differently? And it gives you an awareness to all of the [00:28:00] situations. Cause when you start to play with these numbers, let's just say, keep it real simple, you get 10 leads and then you make a hundred dials and you set 10 appointments and six of them show.

[00:28:12] Greg on Selling: Right. And out of six of them, you sell four of them out of those six, you sell four. And then, then you make a thousand dollars per sale. So 4, 000, so, so 10 leads now equals 4, 000. Okay. So now if you're like, okay, so I want to tweak this system. Okay. Because I want to make sure that I can maximize those 10 leads and make as much as I possibly can.

[00:28:36] Greg on Selling: So now I'm going to do percentages. So if I'm, if I'm got 10 leads. And I'm only setting six appointments. That means I've been at a 60 percent right there out of this. And now, now I got six appointments, but I'm only selling four. That's about a 70%. Okay. And I want to look at those two percentages and say, okay, [00:29:00] well, I'm going to try to raise that 60 percent a little bit.

[00:29:03] Greg on Selling: Right. So instead of setting with. With, six of them, right? I'm going to sit with eight of them. So I'm gonna raise it to 80%. Well, now that's automatically going to raise. All the, the, the tide for everything. So instead of selling for now, I'm probably going to be selling about between five and six, right?

[00:29:25] Greg on Selling: Probably like 5. 5, right? So now I'll be making about between five and a half to 6, 000 just by making that little tweak. So I was like, okay, so now how, how can I sit with more people? Yeah. So now I'm thinking about a different problem set now. It's like, okay, so how do I change my script when I'm talking to people so where I can actually improve the show ratio?

[00:29:48] Greg on Selling: So good. Yeah. Right. So, so now I'm, when I break it down like that and I know where like the lowest percentages are, I play with just that one because it's a larger lever. [00:30:00] So overall impact my, my entire sales at the end of the, of the end of that funnel. So it makes sense. Like so I love how you tie this all in to the end where it's really skills.

[00:30:12] Greg on Selling: So if the numbers aren't there. The skills aren't going to be there anyway, by the way, it's really difficult to develop skills unless you're facing the situation consistently. But when people say sales is a numbers game, I go against, I say, well, it's not a numbers game. It's you've got to have the activity, but you've got to have the skills, but I love your approach to this.

[00:30:39] Greg on Selling: Because there's so much consistency here and breaking down the numbers and knowing your numbers. And then looking at those numbers and saying, what do I need to do differently? And that's where the skills come in. So you could have a, a C player skill [00:31:00] wise can outperform an A player, sometimes purely an A player on skills.

[00:31:09] Greg on Selling: Or maybe a B player. Let's go with B player on skills. And the C player just has way more numbers. If the C player then increases the skills, then they passed, they become the A player because now they've got the activity. They've worked at improving their skills, and now they've got tons of potential ahead of them, whereas people sometimes.

[00:31:35] Greg on Selling: Challenge when they hear sales is a numbers game, they chalk it up to, I just have to do the same thing over and over again, and the numbers will fall into place. That's the, that's probably the worst thing that you can do. Yeah. And you also, given your example, you have the C player. That, Hey, they're, they're actually going to outperform the B player in terms of revenue, [00:32:00] probably, or sales, because they just increased their numbers.

[00:32:03] Greg on Selling: Exactly. A lot of times salespeople will make that mistake. So like the example I gave, instead of, instead of trying to develop the skills and increase the individual percentages and really try to maximize, cause there isn't become a point where you can't maximize any further. Like there's going to be fall off, right?

[00:32:19] Greg on Selling: Yeah. You can maximize to like an 80%. Right now, if you don't do that and you just say, well, I'm just going to double up. I'm just gonna get instead of 10 leads, I'm gonna get 20. So now I'm at 4, instead of 8, 000, right? If you keep doing that, what's going to happen is leads will eventually get less effective.

[00:32:37] Greg on Selling: There's going to be something that happens either. Like for instance, in the life insurance business, leads are more expensive now. So when I was first buying a mortgage protection mail leads is 50, 50 to 55. They're now 110 per piece because of the cost of mail. Also the return rates, right? [00:33:00] So, Now that you're looking at that, if I, if I was the guy that didn't put anything into my skills, I just kept increasing my lead flow to make more money.

[00:33:10] Greg on Selling: Well, now the cost of doing business is just sky is this double. So am I really in a better position versus, versus the B skill player that says, you know what, I'm going to stay. So I always recommend stay where you're at, get to a good baseline where you're making good money. Start analyzing where you're spending your activity and your time start analyzing your performance metrics over every single piece, every step of that business, because I promise you, if you do it like this, you're going to find an area that there's a lever that you can pull.

[00:33:46] Greg on Selling: And really get leverage on the end to impact all of that entire that, like the rest of that process, that sales process for you. Right. And so, and then, and then you go through and start and start [00:34:00] tweaking along the way. You change one thing at a time, focus on one thing. You pull that lever, you really get the, you really get the change in.

[00:34:07] Greg on Selling: You start to see that race, you do it consistently to make sure that it wasn't a fluke. And now it's consistently now you're at, Hey, 80 percent of people that I sit, talk to, I'm setting up, I'm sitting in an appointment with, boom, that's awesome. Now I'm going to be like, I want to, I want to increase my closing ratio.

[00:34:23] Greg on Selling: I want to include, I want to increase that. Right. So I want to, I want to bring that up to 80%. Now I'm cooking with Crisco and now I can say, okay, now. Do I want to get more leads or do I want to get more lifetime value from the client by referrals, right? So I don't want to buy more leads, but I want to get more clients from my clients as referrals, right?

[00:34:46] Greg on Selling: That's that, then you start to look at other ways that you can start to generate more business. And it just becomes, it becomes a game, right? Yeah. So, and it's a fun game. Yeah, it is. [00:35:00] Well, I mean, you know, it's, it's, there's a lot of activity and this is what, this is real sales, what you guys do and gals, when you're out making these calls and you're investing your leads.

[00:35:14] Greg on Selling: This is so different than, you know, where people feel like they've got to have everything handed to them. And you know, there's entitlement and so forth that just does not work in sales. The whole entitlement thing goes out the window because it is, you are what your record says you are. You are what your skills are.

[00:35:35] Greg on Selling: You are what your numbers are. You are what your conversations are. I mean, They're everything about what you do is soup to nuts sales. So, and then when you look at someone who might be listening to this podcast, that is part time sales, right? They're, they're growing their business and they say, well, I'll never be [00:36:00] like.

[00:36:00] Greg on Selling: Greg, because Greg is, he's in it up to his neck every day. What do you suggest for someone who is whatever the sign store owner or, whatever the business is and it, person that decides to start their own business, is there any suggestions you'd have for those people? I mean, so based on your question, it's almost like there's, I see two pieces.

[00:36:26] Greg on Selling: One is the people that. What it sounds like that are in a, a, A unique position, or they feel that they're not like in sales. So the correct that's yes. Yeah, that's Greg, but I'm not really a sales person like this. Doesn't make fun of me. Okay. Perfectly said. Perfect. Everybody sells. I promise. I don't care if you want to challenge me on this, if you're like, I I work in the ER, I don't sell at all.

[00:36:55] Greg on Selling: Okay. You're getting people to take medication and they're, they're blindly [00:37:00] following it because you said it's what's necessary. You're selling them. That is what's best for them. That's still selling. Right. Are you're when they're leaving the hospital, like, Hey, these are the recommended activities to stay healthy that you need to do that people are doing.

[00:37:16] Greg on Selling: You're selling them. Okay. And selling is just influence. It's, it is getting people to do something, either believe in a product. Or a service or an idea that is, that is going to get them to, that they would not normally do without you presenting it. Right. And so, get out of the thought process that you're, that you have to be like this sleazy salesman, because what, when people think about that, that's manipulation.

[00:37:45] Greg on Selling: Right. And that's the difference. Manipulation and influence are two sides of the same coin because a lot of the same tactics and techniques are used, but it's the, that's the process behind it. Right. When I influence somebody, I'm influencing them to [00:38:00] do something that will benefit them right now, it might also benefit me.

[00:38:05] Greg on Selling: But it will also benefit them for sure. When I manipulate somebody, it will only benefit me. It will definitely not. In fact, it'll probably put them in a worse position, but it's not going to benefit them whatsoever. It's only going to benefit me. That is manipulation. Now the same tactics are used. A lot of the same processes are used in order to do those.

[00:38:26] Greg on Selling: Those are different. So stop thinking about manipulating and start thinking about influencing and helping people and believing in what you're doing and you do this. Everyone does this naturally. Whether you're trying to, if you ever asked a girl out or asked a guy out, if you ever asked someone to marry you, if you've ever like asked your parents as a kid to like, let you go to your friend's house to play late at night, like you have influenced somebody.

[00:38:49] Greg on Selling: To let you do something or to believe in something that you believed in. That's it, right? Yeah. And that's sales. So start tapping into that. And if you start to [00:39:00] think about when's the last time I convinced somebody of something, right? How did I do that? And you look at your natural sales style, like, why was it that I was able to convince this person that an iPhone, the new iPhone was the best iPhone ever.

[00:39:15] Greg on Selling: And they should go get it. And then they did. Right. You just sold them an idea to go for them to go buy something because it did it. And it benefits you and it did benefit you. And here's why, because it made you feel good because it made you feel like you just made the recommendation. So you're like the go to person, right?

[00:39:31] Greg on Selling: Now you didn't make any money. But don't think about the money aspect, but think about like, how did I do that? Like was it because I believed in apple was because I believed in this iPhone was because I wanted people to think the same way As me, you know, how is it that I was able to convince this person and that's your sales style So if you start doing that and you start applying that with any other business Let's say that you are wanting to start sales as a part time and start selling to generate more income because [00:40:00] you're, you know, what you're currently doing isn't giving you the income that you desire to do what you want to do in life, find an industry that you believe in the product, there's sales in so many industries that you can, that you can back and honestly believe in, and then apply the same exact tactics that do with, with selling anything else in life.

[00:40:21] Greg on Selling: That's like I was talking about. And, and that's, that's where you start, right? And just get out there and then just start, like, honestly, get out there and get messy. Like make some mistakes, fall down a lot, get your teeth kicked in, but, you know, cause it's going to happen, like, just get used to it. And that's, that's the recommendation that I would have a hundred percent on board with that.

[00:40:45] Greg on Selling: Great. It's so the, for the business owner, you may not feel like you're going to make whatever a hundred calls in a day. But if you're making zero and saying, well, I'm [00:41:00] not a salesperson, so I don't have to make any. We're encouraging you to look at that differently. You know, maybe the number isn't a hundred, but it's probably not zero either.

[00:41:11] Greg on Selling: And just starting to improve or increase the activity, you'll start to see results. You'll have more conversations, you'll have more opportunities. And, you know, some people, you know, they're, they're doing everything. I understand that. But making the time for during the day, maybe it's a half an hour, maybe it's an hour where you say, I'm just going to make some calls to people that I know, let them know what I'm doing.

[00:41:37] Greg on Selling: Your skill sets will get better, but I love what you said. Keep track of the numbers. And maybe one week you say, I've made 10 calls this week, next week, I'm going to see if I can increase it. And then eventually you start, you start feeling it and it's, it is a game and you reward yourself based on the calls you make, the [00:42:00] conversations you have, and then the money that you make as well.

[00:42:03] Greg on Selling: So it's a process. But I think the advantage is that people like you and people like me, where we've been immersed in selling, this is what we breathe, you know, so we didn't leave corporate, not understand, or you didn't leave the army and just say, well, I'm going to be great in sales. And it's all going to come to me.

[00:42:26] Greg on Selling: You had to figure it out. You had to go through the ups and downs and get the coaching, the training, and then commit and then do the stuff. And now you're like this. You know, the game and you can help others with this. So I love, I love the story. I love sales because it's, you're driving your own engine.

[00:42:46] Greg on Selling: It's your own, you know, it's your own contribution to the economy. You're not only helping yourself, but you're helping tons of people. You're everybody that you're coming across to that becomes, they coming across, it becomes your client and you're doing [00:43:00] things the right way through service, you know, not manipulation influence, you know, Which is also great.

[00:43:06] Greg on Selling: I love how you divided that or separated those two. So a lot of great stuff here, and I would say, you know, the last thing I was, as, as you were talking here, you said something that, that really got me worked up a little bit.

[00:43:18] Greg on Selling: Sure. It's something about service. And when it comes to selling, if you're, if you are trying to sell more for business or trying to get over the thought process of like, well, I don't want to sell, like, whatever, if you look at it in terms of service and like, being like, actually serving people, which all it takes is having a conversation, right?

[00:43:40] Greg on Selling: You never know who you talk to, who might, what problem sets they might have. For solutions that you can, that you can provide and then be of service, but you won't know that until you have a conversation. And so sometimes if you just start off the conversation or the, the, with like, Hey, I'd like to ask you some questions [00:44:00] to see what it is that you're currently facing and see if I would even be a good fit.

[00:44:04] Greg on Selling: And I don't know if I would be. And, and if I'm not. Then just let me know that way. I'm not wasting your time. Right. Just really organic, really like upfront. I did that. There's nothing salesy about that. It's like, Hey, let me ask you some questions, get to know you a little bit and see if I can actually provide a service to you and if I can awesome, if not, no worries, like this, tell me.

[00:44:29] Greg on Selling: And I won't waste your time. Is that fair? Right. And there are most people, most people are going to say, yeah, that's fair. Right. And then you, and then you start asking questions. Hey, how long have this, how long you've been dealing with this? Boom, boom, boom. He started asking us questions is what and how questions understand their situation, but don't add, don't do, don't be this, the salesperson to ask questions to get them just to say, yes.

[00:44:48] Greg on Selling: Oh my goodness. Hey, do you like to drink water? Oh, do you drink water every day? Do you want it to be clean? Do you like purified water? It's just like, dude, stop. Just get to your pitch already. It's like [00:45:00] all these yeses in a row. You're asking questions to start with what and how that are open ended that are like, Hey, you know, when, when you think about X, you know, what's your plan for Y?

[00:45:14] Greg on Selling: You know, have you, have you, you know, what plans do you have for X, Y, Z, how long have you been dealing with. X, Y, Z, right? What's prevented you from doing X, Y, Z, I seen questions. I start with what and how are very open ended and then you get them to talk and explain their situation. And a lot of times when you listen to them, you can say, Hey, well, based on this, let me ask more questions.

[00:45:36] Greg on Selling: Right, right. It'll give you that full picture. And then you're just providing a service. It was like, well, sounds like I can help you. And this is what I have. And most times people will come to that conclusion themselves and say, actually, I need help with this. Do you help with this? And you're like, yes, actually I do.

[00:45:51] Greg on Selling: Now it's a much more organic conversation. It's not really selling. It's more promoting service. So, yeah, so good. And the you know, when you were talking [00:46:00] about this influence or whatever, this thing is get people to say, yes, this, this to me falls on manipulation. Yes. Yeah. Just completely. You know, it's slimy.

[00:46:12] Greg on Selling: It's gross. Get someone to say yes, 10 times on the 11th, the numbers show whatever the, the data is to me is just nonsense, for relationship, relationship selling or consultative selling. That's nonsense. If you're trying to sell something. That is whatever, it's a mop for 1999 or something that you're, you're going to, you know, use it as a mop and a vacuum and you can do whatever you want.

[00:46:40] Greg on Selling: That's probably not my type of sale anyway, but consultative where your real partner, please. No, I'm going to get the person to say yes, 42 times on the 43rd time you're going to sign the deal. So yeah, great stuff. So you mentioned the what and how and. I'm going to ask you what your thought is on the why [00:47:00] question.

[00:47:01] Greg on Selling: So I, I, I'm a big fan of getting into people's why and digging into people's why I don't ask people why, because why is accusatory for instance. Let's say that like for my, for my industry, people does, someone doesn't have a life insurance policy. Let's say Harry, you don't have a life insurance policy.

[00:47:18] Greg on Selling: And I'm asking, Hey, what policies have you had before in the past? And you're like, I haven't had any policies in the past. And if I were to ask you. Well, why haven't you had any policies? Why don't you have any life insurance policies, Harry? That's kind of an attack on you. It is. It's very much of like a like, well, you made a mistake.

[00:47:36] Greg on Selling: Why have you done that? Right? Yeah, exactly. Instead, I can still ask a what question that will get the same exact answer. Point across and say, okay, well, Hey, Harry, that's really interesting. What's prevented you from getting a life policy before in the past, right? Yeah. Now this is me asking what third party issue reference external circumstance that [00:48:00] you can point to and say, I haven't gotten a policy because of this.

[00:48:03] Greg on Selling: It's not the same because of me, but I, but it's going to open you up to be way more. Transparent and also that tells me something that's been an issue before you, what any potential, objection further down the road, which could be like, I haven't been able to get a policy because they've been so expensive.

[00:48:21] Greg on Selling: Well, now you're gonna have a price objection later on. Yeah, so that's good. That gives me some ammo to know what I'm dealing with and what concerns you have that I can start massaging into the conversation and making sure that I can deal with those issues. Well, also getting you the product or service that makes the best sense for you.

[00:48:39] Greg on Selling: That line of questioning can be used. Oh yeah. In any sales, any sales environment, you know, if you, if you ask your spouse, why did you do that? Get ready for the battle, or what motivated you to right now? Or, you know, yeah. Right. It is just, I'm [00:49:00] curious what, what, you know, what was behind that? Like to understand it, right?

[00:49:04] Greg on Selling: But why did you do that is for whatever reason, the, why, where, where that came from, why we feel so challenged by it. But I feel challenged. I try to eliminate whenever I'm asking questions. So as soon as why comes out, I try to correct it and say, what, and start figuring out what is the best way to ask this question and you'll have better results than the why.

[00:49:26] Greg on Selling: Is that something that you learned in your interrogation practice as well? Especially if you're sitting down with somebody that's, that's done something bad, you know, a lot of times we're, we're talking to people that like, they're, we found their fingerprints on a bomb or pieces of a bomb and we're like, Hey, we rolled them up and then it's just like, well, why did you do that?

[00:49:42] Greg on Selling: It says like, Hey, we What happened that got your fingerprints on that bomb? What happened when their fingers being blown off, like you told me the [00:50:00] story now they're like, well, they'll let like sit down. Let me tell you. So, Yeah, good stuff. I definitely love that part of the conversation. Greg, where can people find more of your brilliance, sir? Yeah. If anyone wants to find me or have any questions or just, you know, have a conversation or which I love doing find me on Instagram. I'm at Gregory a Birch on LinkedIn, just Greg Birch.

[00:50:26] Greg on Selling: And you know, I answer any DMS, don't DM me on LinkedIn. But if you, if you messaged me on Instagram, then I I'll definitely answer everything on Instagram. 

[00:50:35] Greg on Selling: This has been real fun and love the conversation. So much success to you. Thank you, Greg. Thank you so much, Eric. And I'm blessed. 

[00:50:45] Welcome to Sales Made Easy, a podcast for business and personal growth. Join Harry Spaight, as he hosts sales experts and business owners who share their journeys of personal growth and business success now, here's your host, [00:51:00] Harry. ​ 

[00:51:07] Thank you for listening to Sales Made Easy. If you found value in our conversations, please subscribe and leave a review. Our goal is to provide practical strategies for growing your business while staying true to your values. Remember, six. Success in sales is about serving your clients. Serve first and the selling will follow.

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