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I like to say that when it comes to branding and being more open and authentic about who you are, it makes the decision so much easier for your potential customers to know whether or not they want to go on a second date with you.
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Welcome to Sales Made Easy, a podcast for business and personal growth.
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Join Harry Spaight, as he hosts sales experts and business owners who share their journeys of personal growth and business success now, here's your host, Harry.
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Wow.
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I am pretty excited about this conversation.
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I have yet to have a conversation with my guest is wearing really bright ears and they just fit perfectly and I want some.
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So Rachel Lee is joining us and she is a marketing expert.
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She's a designer and brand stylist that helps disruptive brands.
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And Neuro spicy entrepreneurs find the sparkle in their brand and develop a unique look that people recognize and remember you for.
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And we want to be remembered.
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And after this conversation, I'm pretty sure you will be remembering Rachel Lee.
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So welcome to the sales made easy podcast.
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Thank you for having me.
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I'm so excited to be jamming out with you today.
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Oh yes, this is going to be a blast.
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So Rachel why don't you tell us a little bit about what it is you do?
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I kind of described it, but I'd like to hear in your own words.
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What this neuro spicy stuff is,
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it's a fancy term on the market that a lot of neurodivergent people use to describe themselves, but with a little bit more of an edge where it describes people who think differently.
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Now, I know that there is a scientific classification for it, but I personally think everyone Is a little crazy inside.
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I don't care what you identify as.
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We are all a little crazy and we all think in completely different ways.
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And what I love to do is to highlight that fact and then help people extract that and bring that out in the way that they present themselves, because, you know, when you look online, especially in the world of business, it's like a sea of sameness, everyone looks the same.
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Every business, every coach and consultant has this semi.
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Corporate looking branding with a little bit of fun, but no, seriously guys, like everyone is special and unique and has some elements of you that is different.
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And what I love to do is I love to help you draw that out, like help people see how different you are so that they know if you are or aren't the right fit for them right away.
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It's just like matchmaking, put out what you want to attract.
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And I basically help you with translating that into the online space.
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Yeah, and you're so genuine.
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It's like I remember in our previous conversation, you have the headset on with the ears that are lit what is the way to describe this?
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Is it my describing it accurately from the people who don't see you on video?
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Yes, it's it's pretty much like one of those gaming headsets.
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It's like this, these pink headphones with cat ears on top and they light up with fun rainbow colors.
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And it's a common question that I have when people see me on zoom, they're like, what is that on your head?
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Is that a zoom filter?
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I'm like, Nope, these are just my headphones.
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And so when we're chatting, you basically, you said, look, if you can't get past this, I'm not for you.
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Right.
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And this is what I love about our conversation earlier is that you, you are who you are and you, what you just described a lot of us, myself included struggle with being who we really are because we don't want to offend people, or we feel like we have to toe a certain line.
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So that we come across as professional or whatever the brand is that we're trying to highlight.
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So talk to me about where we might be mistaken there.
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Absolutely.
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And I want to bring it back to the fact that business is Just a fancy way of saying people helping people.
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And when you simplify it down into those basic building blocks, the only way that you can form a connection is if you know someone and trust them.
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And trust is built based on Knowing exactly who it is that you're talking to and the full spectrum of that, where I, the trust that I have in someone only goes so far when I only see a fraction of who you are, the rest that is underneath the iceberg.
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There's a lot of assumptions and questions.
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And at least personally for me, I feel like the people that I develop a deep sense of trust in, I see.
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Everything.
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And when I see everything and decide that that is still okay, that allows me to go farther into the deep end with them.
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And I often feel like in the world of business, we are told that professionalism has to look and come off a certain way.
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And I understand it is a blanket standard, but the caveat to that is, well, if You present yourself according to the standard and everyone does the same thing.
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Well, how are you going to stand out and how are people going to be able to tell if you are or aren't the right fit for them?
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Because as we know, no business is the same.
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You might use the same things on paper, but the reality is the way that you provide your service is different.
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The people who resonate with you as a service provider Is completely different.
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And it's our responsibility to be able to communicate that difference so that honestly, on behalf of our customers, they don't have to spend a whole lot of time and energy.
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It's kind of like going on the dating circuit.
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Are you the right fit for me?
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Do I like you?
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Do I want to go on a second date?
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It's the same thing over and over again.
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And it's exciting.
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So I like to say that when it comes to branding and being more open and authentic about who you are, it makes the decision so much easier for your potential customers to know whether or not they want to go on a second date with you.
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If I were to run with that analogy and oftentimes, yeah, I find that we tend to.
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Water down who we are and what we're actually like, and it doesn't serve our clients because it feels like there's something under the table there.
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We're afraid of showing ourselves because we're afraid of scaring people away, when in reality, they actually want to know.
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It's better to know everything up front right away than to find out later after they decide to go on five dates with you.
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So that's everything for me.
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So good.
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And so true.
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I just put out a LinkedIn live on the value of trust and in sales and in business, and we're so oftenly hoodwinked.
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Right, where people make promises, we buy stuff that we think that we think is worth the money, and we find out that it isn't, we pay for services thinking we're going to get one thing, and we find out that we're really not getting that.
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And there's a lot of tricks and manipulation and things just don't work out.
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So I just love the approach.
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It's just this way.
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You don't have to think about it.
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Be who you are.
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And take care of the client, right?
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Take care, businesses help people helping people.
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So I love what you said and it just makes perfect sense to me.
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So this idea of trust in your business.
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You know, where you're, I mean, where you're trying to help businesses to show who they are, who they are, what their identity is being genuine.
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What are some of the challenges that you find in this sea of sameness when you're speaking to people.
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What are a couple things that stand out.
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I often find that when it comes to branding, people have a very backwards approach to presenting themselves where they look at everyone else in their industry, take a look at how their packaging and presenting themselves and then ask, okay, based on everything that I see, how can I be similar, but also different in comparison to that?
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And while that works mostly from a business brand perspective, because it goes down to brand positioning, It's like asking, it's like presenting yourself based on what you want other people, or what other people want to see from you, rather than asking yourself, who am I and how can I let that shine?
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It's very backwards, but if you think about it, you're not actually Addressing the core of the problem if you're going from the outside in approach, you're not even asking yourself who am I first you're asking, well, who, who should I be based on what other people are looking for.
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And when we, like, start, say it like that, of course, everyone's going to be like, Oh, wait a minute.
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Like that isn't brand identity.
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That's just, fancy positioning.
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Whereas at least the approach that I like to take is ask it, doing it from the inside out and asking, well, what's this vision that you have that you want to create for your brand?
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Who are you?
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For personal brands and then for businesses, well, what's the thing that really makes you unique genuinely?
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Like, is it something about your service?
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Or is it the experience that you create for your customers?
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Is it your attention to detail your care or whatever it is?
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What's the thing that makes you different and unique?
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And then how can we find a creative way to express that so that you automatically shine and are completely different from all of your competitors.
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And when you start from an inside out approach.
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Automatically, there is no competition because there is one, you, only you will do your business the way that you do.
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So why don't we just highlight that and then start with that when it comes to your branding and the way that you market yourself?
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Yeah, that's really good.
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I love what you just said too about competition.
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People worry so much about it and it's just makes very little sense to me.
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Is that in a sense that you have your friends.
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And you have people that are drawn to you for the traits that you put out in the world, and your customers and your clients are going to be drawn to those same traits.
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And if you're worried about the competition, you just got to find people that like you for who you are and what you stand for, instead of worrying so much about.
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Competition is at least that's my thought.
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What's is are you thinking similarly?
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Absolutely.
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And I can even draw back to my own personal experiences as a recovering people pleaser.
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I grew up in a setting where.
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I was the version of me that I thought everyone else wanted to see my friends, my family.
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I also grew up in a church where my parents were really involved and I felt a lot of pressure to be this version of me that everyone else wanted to see the good girl, the straight A student.
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I was like all, I checked off all of the boxes and I.
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didn't give myself the space to ask myself who I wanted to be and how I wanted to present myself to the world until, I'd say, a lot later in the more recent years.
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And the feeling of being able to do that is oddly freeing, I would say, where when you're going from the outside in approach, you feel so much pressure.
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And you'll realize that you're never going to be able to please any, everyone anyway.
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It's impossible.
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But when you go from the inside out, it suddenly relieves all of that pressure where you already know, regardless of what's happening out there, I am happy with the way that I'm presenting myself.
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I know the value that I bring to the table and I'm just going to put it on full display for the world to see.
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And whoever that may attract Let them come and whoever it pushes away, they were not meant to be a good fit for me.
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Anyway, I wouldn't have liked talking to them or working with them.
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So that is okay.
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And that's actually desirable.
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I don't want to be wasting my time with people who aren't the right fit.
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And neither would other people want to waste their time talking to me if they aren't going to be the right fit anyway.
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Yeah, 100%.
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And you know, you're probably late 20s, maybe 30 ish.
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And you're finding out as funny when you said later, later in your life, you're finding out that you're a people pleaser and that you have to let go and find out who you are.
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There are people much older.
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that are still trying to figure this out and have the regret that they've never really lived the life that they wanted to live.
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So kudos to you for finding this out and thinking about this in your twenties which is absolutely amazing.
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So one of the things we spoke about earlier in a previous conversation was this.
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Idea of selling you are very good in your business, but then when you went out on your own, what was the surprise for you when it came to selling?
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Oh, man, sales.
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Especially in the earlier years for me, it was a, it's weird for me to say it.
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It felt like a dirty word to me where I didn't like the energy that sales carried for me, mostly because I went into business without any conception of what it even meant to do sales.
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I just realized, Oh, in order for me to share my gifts to the world and help people in the capacity that I would like to, do it myself.
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I'm gonna have to do this thing called sales in order to get clients.
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It's just gonna have to be a part of the business, but I never had any formal sales training.
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I didn't even know what it meant.
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I just knew that it was a conversation in which I would talk to somebody and basically ask for their money.
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That's what it equated to in my brain.
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And it was very hard for me to figure out how to do sales in a way that felt natural, where I, it, Just felt like having a conversation with someone about how I can help them.
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Of course, fast forward many years.
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It's much easier for me now, but in the first few years, it was so clunky.
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I, I literally avoided sales conversations.
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I would talk myself out of opportunities to have those conversations with people because it just brought so much tension up and of course.
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That affected my business in a very negative way.
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So I'm sure there's a lot for us to unpack here, but that's where I started.
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That was five years ago, but that's where I started.
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Oh my goodness.
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And I think what you just hit was virtually everyone who has started a business that doesn't have a sales background.
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It is a massive wake up that selling is required.
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So What were you thinking as to how the business just out of curiosity, how was the business supposed to come in, in your mind?
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Was it all a hundred percent marketing and you didn't really have to communicate with people or what was happening up there between those cat ears?
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Yeah, it was actually, it was actually very much exactly what you described where somehow it never occurred to me that, Sales was the bridge between marketing and me receiving money to serve my clients where there's a very critical point of, turn, like, turn, turning the tables where marketing is all about getting people on board with what you're doing, getting them excited, getting them.
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Thinking about what could be painting the picture of here's what your life would be like after we work together, but you still need to have that very critical conversation or moment where people say yes, and I unfortunately did not have that part of the process curated well enough so that I would.
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Do an amazing job of getting people all excited thinking about the possibility of what it would be like to work on their brand.
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And then I would totally drop the ball in the sales conversation where I wouldn't show up with the same level of confidence.
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I would fumble on my words.
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I wouldn't even have the right words to describe what it is that I do to make the ask in a way that didn't feel weird and sleazy to me.
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Like I would just totally fumble it and create a, there was a gap in the.
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Experience that I was trying to create for my customers, even from a branding perspective, where I do my best to make sure everything is consistent from what you see online to when we hang out on zoom to down to the way that I deliver my service, I do my best to make sure that it's consistent.
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And in the first few years, Everything was amazing, except for that one conversation where I would have to talk to people about what it would look like to actually work together.
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And for the longest time, that was the bane of my existence and I avoided it like the plague, which unfortunately, that meant that I relied so heavily on my marketing and.
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To get clients that it was like spray and pray.
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I think that's a term that I used a lot where I would put stuff out there and then just cross my fingers and hope that that would somehow magically translate into people throwing their money at me.
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And even though there was a lot of interest.
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I still realized that I needed to find a way to capture that energy that was coming my way and then turn it into an opportunity.
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So that's sort of what I was working with in the first.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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So much good there.
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And you learned obviously, but how many opportunities do you think you just missed out on?
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Because of your feelings about sales, would you say, I mean, ballpark
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countless dozens.
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I feel like I talked to so many amazing people in the first few years who definitely expressed interest in working together with me, but I wasn't able to carry myself with that same level of confidence that they did.
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They wanted to see during the sales conversation to let them know that I was the right person to be helping them with their problem.
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And as a result, after I fumbled and dropped the ball in those conversations, a lot of people decided just to DIY their branding, or maybe go work with somebody else because in that moment, I didn't present myself as the clear.
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One and only option that they should be working with to help them with their branding.
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Right.
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And so you're, you have so many skills when it comes to the personal branding and the branding in general.
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Why couldn't people pick this up and say, she's for me?
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What, what do you think you are missing?
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I feel like a lot of it was having a hard time figuring out the right language to use, especially in a sales conversation.
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In a way that felt like me, because what I do is personal branding, the way that I show up, it, it has to be consistent.
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The, the way that I show up in a sales conversation, honestly, in my mind, it's the same as when I'm hanging out with people.
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I see Everyone on the same plane.
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I am the same me in any single given situation.
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And my ideal situation, the ideal situation is that I would be the same in a sales conversation, but because there was an inconsistency, I felt like I was under serving people and I wasn't showing a good example of here's what.
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Personal branding is actually like because there was a dip inconsistency when I had that conversation.
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And I feel like one of the missing pieces for me was finding the language that felt natural to me in a sales conversation.
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So in the world of sales and marketing, we have certain words like Leads,
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which
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tends to make it sound like people are numbers, which that I, I don't like thinking about people that way.
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And it messes with my, literally, it messes with my attitude and my mindset.
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When I go into a conversation to chat with someone about how I can help them.
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So certain words that I've really needed to rewire in my brain some other words, for example, where I like to use the word invitation.
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A lot when it comes to making the ask, I invite you to work together with me.
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Let's hang out.
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Let's make something cool together.
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Let's co create this experience where I don't want to feel like I'm pitching somebody.
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I'm not here to give people what they don't need.
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I'm here to.
00:20:56.694 --> 00:21:02.285
Get a gauge of where are you at, and then see if I can help you get to where you need to go.
00:21:02.295 --> 00:21:17.884
We both bring equally important halves to the puzzle in order to form the bigger picture and over time I've learned to find the language to accurately describe what I want that process to feel like but it was very difficult because in the beginning there is no guide book.
00:21:18.704 --> 00:21:22.805
There are no guidelines around what are the right words to use in a sales conversation.
00:21:22.805 --> 00:21:27.914
There are words that I know that are effective, but does it make sense when it comes out of my mouth?
00:21:28.275 --> 00:21:28.964
Maybe not.
00:21:28.964 --> 00:21:29.164
Right.
00:21:29.164 --> 00:21:41.075
So I had to find the Rachel equivalent of those words in order for me to show up with the same level of consistency in my sales conversations, as I show up in every other aspect of my business.
00:21:41.865 --> 00:21:42.704
Yeah, so good.
00:21:42.845 --> 00:21:43.914
Are you converting leads?
00:21:44.105 --> 00:21:45.275
What does that even mean?
00:21:45.615 --> 00:21:48.265
What does that even mean to a potential buyer?
00:21:48.265 --> 00:21:48.724
Right?
00:21:48.974 --> 00:21:51.484
It's like, yeah, my lead conversion is terrible.
00:21:51.994 --> 00:21:57.914
It's like, so we're talking about onboarding or bringing clients into your business.
00:21:57.924 --> 00:22:07.335
We're calling this lead conversion and it is, there's so much wrong with that on the human level that you described is that we treat people like a number.
00:22:07.674 --> 00:22:14.964
We think about, I have to convert for those of us who have a religious background, that's a word we don't love anymore.
00:22:15.865 --> 00:22:20.674
And then it's like, we're, we're more worried about closing.
00:22:21.295 --> 00:22:27.775
Then potentially creating something together, which is beautiful, right?
00:22:28.065 --> 00:22:37.265
I love what, how you arrived to that from the fear and the awkwardness to this, really a beautiful place.
00:22:37.265 --> 00:22:43.875
And I'm sure people love you for, you know, how you can bring them to this point of becoming a client.
00:22:44.315 --> 00:22:48.494
How did you go from where you were to this?
00:22:48.819 --> 00:22:51.460
Let's co create some magic here.
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:54.660
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:22:55.109 --> 00:22:57.799
In the beginning, it was a lot of trial and error.
00:22:58.230 --> 00:23:03.730
It's like, you know, how you have to take a bunch of wrong turns before you realize where you need to go.
00:23:03.730 --> 00:23:11.105
So the first Few years was a lot of fumbling around and discovering what I did it like about the sales process.
00:23:11.144 --> 00:23:21.724
And once I was able to pinpoint those things, thankfully, I've had a few coaches and mentors that I've worked with over the past who helped me massage out the knots.
00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:28.029
In my sales process, and I learned bits and pieces from a lot of my different coaches.
00:23:28.329 --> 00:23:35.880
The word co create is something that I actually picked up off of one of my mentors who has a consent based sales process.
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:42.079
And that's actually what initially drew me into working together with them because they led with the fact that.
00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:49.170
The sales, it has to be a co creation where it's not about you giving someone something that they don't need.
00:23:49.190 --> 00:24:02.309
It's about you showing up and having a conversation with someone who needs help and then seeing if you're the right fit to be helping them with it and then figuring out based on what they need, how can you create something beautiful together?
00:24:02.329 --> 00:24:15.914
So I would say it picked up a lot of pieces from a lot of different people, but over time I've Finally, I get to finally say, finally, I have come up with a system that works for me and feels good.
00:24:15.934 --> 00:24:19.015
And honestly, there's always still room for improvement.
