Master the Art of Authentic Selling with Liz Wendling

Master the Art of Authentic Selling with Liz Wendling

[00:00:00] Liz Wendling: it's taking a look at the language you're using for yourself about the only thing that keeps you in business and changing your perception around selling and sales that something is wrong with it or bad and it through a different lens.

[00:00:12] Liz Wendling: And you see helping how sales is helping and serving and selling and guiding and leading. It's getting people what they need or want. And if you can't give it to them, they're going to someone else.

[00:00:24] Welcome to Sales Made Easy, a podcast for business and personal growth. Join Harry Spaight, author of Selling With Dignity, as he hosts sales experts and business owners who share their journeys of personal growth and business success now, here's your host, Harry.

[00:00:41] Liz Wendling: Oh, we're in for a treat. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a good friend of mine, Liz Wendling, joining us on the sales made easy podcast. And if you don't know, Liz. Well, this lady is driven by the mantra. It's not what you sell. It's [00:01:00] how you sell that matters. We're going to talk a little bit about language today.

[00:01:04] Liz Wendling: For those of us who speak English, we might be using some of the wrong words. Liz is also author of a couple of books, actually six. But her most recent two are The Heart of Authentic Selling and Sell Without Selling Your Soul. I have a copy of that. Oh, yay! Right here. I was kind of going through it.

[00:01:26] Liz Wendling: I even have notes. All right. We might talk a little bit about selling without selling your soul. So, Liz! What is the good word

[00:01:33] Liz Wendling: today? Oh, the good word is when I saw you, that you were one of my calls today. I got so excited. I knew we were meeting in December, but I was like, today was the day. It's been too long.

[00:01:44] Liz Wendling: So I'm excited to be here and chat with you.

[00:01:47] Harry: It's funny, but you know, I've reached out to a few people and it's like, Me in June as a junior in high school trying to get up courage to ask for a date is the way I've approached some of [00:02:00] these guests, you're being you being one of them's like, Will you please go out with me?

[00:02:04] Harry: Will you please join me? I don't even know what to say. I'm so nervous. Liz asked me like where I lived. And instead of saying I live outside of Orlando, I said I live outside of Florida. She gave me the puzzled look like what's wrong with you? It's like I got a little Liz Wendling jitters right now. Oh,

[00:02:21] Liz Wendling: that's funny.

[00:02:22] Liz Wendling: Well, we, we've relaxed and got into a nice conversation before this, so I am ready for whatever you want to talk about. All right, good deal. So we're

[00:02:31] Harry: talking sales, all things selling today. And one of the topics that you and I were just chatting about, I think is pretty common, is that I am around a lot of people who are starting a business, consultants who've never really taken a deep dive in sales.

[00:02:48] Harry: And I know like the title of your book, you know, sell without selling your soul is a lot of people don't like the idea of looking, smelling, acting like a [00:03:00] salesperson. So they avoid it completely. suffers. So let's talk a how people can become a l in selling without necess their sales. So where wou

[00:03:12] Liz Wendling: with that?

[00:03:13] Liz Wendling: Well, where my away is, is most people w love what they do, but th those are their exact wor Hate for the only thing in their business that keeps them in business. So they hate money. That means they hate to thrive. That means they hate to go to the bank. That means they hate to help people. That means they hate to help people make decisions in a time of need.

[00:03:38] Liz Wendling: So they're making it all about themselves. I would hate it too, if I was that self serving. So what I teach people is how to stop being so self serving and say, I hate it. I don't like how I feel. I don't like when I have to articulate my value or talk to people about what I do. I say, well, then stop making it about you and turn the focus on the person that you're talking [00:04:00] to.

[00:04:00] Liz Wendling: So if you say anything that resembles that. That's a start right there that you are putting the focus on yourself versus the client. And for everybody out there who says, I'm client centric. I'm all about the client. I do everything for my clients. The minute you start talking with that language of, I don't like it, or I don't like how I feel in it.

[00:04:21] Liz Wendling: You have just become incongruent and completely out of integrity. So it's taking a look at the language you're using for yourself about the only thing that keeps you in business and changing your perception around selling and sales that something is wrong with it or bad and putting a different lens, seeing it through a different lens.

[00:04:39] Liz Wendling: And you see helping how sales is helping and serving and selling and guiding and leading. It's getting people what they need or want. And if you can't give it to them, they're going to someone else. So that's, I'll get off my soapbox on them. Yeah, really.

[00:04:54] Harry: I mean, do you have any opinion on this

[00:04:56] Liz Wendling: or

[00:04:57] Harry: yeah I couldn't agree with you more [00:05:00] and I'm going to be completely open here is that I've said some of those same things, you know, you know, it's not like Those of us who've been in sales forever don't have days where we're like, what am I doing?

[00:05:11] Harry: It's not like we don't have streaks of what seems like everything that can go wrong. Does nobody is buying anything that we're selling. We're wondering what has, what we done to the universe. So we do have these thoughts, but I absolutely love how you. Basically you're saying snap out of it. That's it over it.

[00:05:33] Harry: Because like, I was just talking to someone recently and they said, I don't really have time to sell. And they, you know, they're in business. Their business is not thriving. I mean, if it was thriving and they really didn't have, they need clients. So. You know, saying you don't have time for it is to me is clearly there's a

[00:05:55] Liz Wendling: deeper reason well, they're selling themselves on the fact that they don't have to do that.

[00:05:59] Liz Wendling: I'm [00:06:00] too busy to sell. Okay. Well, you just effectively sold yourself on the fact that you're happy with your business going nowhere. You've sold yourself close the deal that you are fine with not doing the work necessary to grow your business. If you want to be busy, go for it. But if you want to go to the bank, you have to do the work.

[00:06:18] Liz Wendling: Yeah,

[00:06:19] Harry: absolutely. It's like I think people who are starting their own business, if they're coming out of corporate, they've had the job and they say, look, I now want to turn into a consultant or I want to pursue my passion. I think this is pretty common. Yes, is that they view it as they're stepping into a franchise that something is already running and all they need to do is make the subs or all they right all they have to do is make the pizzas and people are just going to come flock to them but it's It's really not that way.

[00:06:52] Harry: I mean, is that something you see as well?

[00:06:54] Liz Wendling: I, oh, I see it all the time or they, they, they adopt the moniker that [00:07:00] I don't sell. I don't need to sell. I'll just serve. I'm a servant. I, and they. There's nothing wrong with serving as long as you're selling with it. You can serve and you can sell. So I, I use serving and selling like the infinity symbol.

[00:07:15] Liz Wendling: It crosses over, it overlaps, it intertwines, it goes together. It's complimentary. If you do one without the other. You confuse the hell out of people. If you only serve, but you don't sell, you make people scratch their head and say, what a waste of time. I don't even know what that person does, or he or she didn't articulate their value and how they can help me.

[00:07:38] Liz Wendling: All they wanted to do was serve and be a servant. And there's nothing wrong with serving, but there is something wrong when you serve so much. You leave people completely drunk from confusion. So if you're over serving and under selling, you'll pretty much know it because you're not closing business.

[00:07:57] Liz Wendling: People are saying, thank you, but I'll get back to you. [00:08:00] That's a little expensive or I'm not ready to buy. And they run and lie and hide from you because. All you did was serve you forgot to do the other part, which was help and lead and guide and get people to a place where they called you for the reason they called

[00:08:16] Harry: you.

[00:08:16] Harry: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, like, I am a big believer in the servant mindset. But in all throughout the years of selling, like I've worked for a publicly held company. We had to provide our forecast. There was no way I could go into that meeting and say, well, I'm just a servant. I don't, I don't really sell, right?

[00:08:40] Harry: I'm in sales, folks. I can serve, but I need to ask for the order. Yes. And this is where you got to serve. But it's just like in the analogy I use is the server in the fine dining restaurant. They're not just serving water. They eventually say. Would you like [00:09:00] to order now? So, you know, and that's really what many are missing is missing that.

[00:09:06] Harry: Would you like to order now? So how do they get into that from the serving side? Cause you mentioned it's all connected. I love that. So tell me, how do you transition from the selling just serving to sell it?

[00:09:19] Liz Wendling: So. I think that and I think I know, I know, because both are necessary is, is shifting that mindset from, oh, if I only just serve them, they'll eventually pull out their credit card or say yes to me.

[00:09:34] Liz Wendling: If I just keep serving them, I keep sending them articles and information and I, I just keep inundating them with all the stuff that I can do for them that eventually. They will buy from you, and that's not the case. So the selling part that comes in with the serving is when you're having maybe a discovery call, an initial meeting, that face to face or online first conversation about, Hey, I may need to [00:10:00] hire you, or I want to find out more about what you do and if you can help my organization or myself.

[00:10:05] Liz Wendling: And it's being able to weave in and out of that serving and selling mindset. By asking the great questions that get under the hood of what's really at the heart of why people are talking to you. No one calls a plumber unless they need a plumber, right? Nobody calls a divorce attorney unless they're really considering a divorce.

[00:10:27] Liz Wendling: So you have to be able to go in there and go deep into that conversation. Why now? What's going on? Tell me a little bit of this. Oftentimes when I'm talking to a, a woman who's ready to go through a divorce, like yourself, we find this or certain things you want to be yours. You want to impart insight as well as that serving and selling and insight.

[00:10:48] Liz Wendling: And again, they all move and weave together. So you have to be able to sell the value that you provide, right? If you're not selling the value you provide, but someone else is, they're going to [00:11:00] go to that person.

[00:11:01] Harry: Yeah, somebody that has clarity and is not afraid to ask for the

[00:11:04] Liz Wendling: order, right? That's right. And even, even one step before that, it's not even asking for the order.

[00:11:09] Liz Wendling: It's being able to say, here's how I work with people in your situation without ever having to use those exact words, but it's how you step in, connect the dots for people. So they see the connection. Then when you say, Okay. How do you feel about moving forward? Are you at the place right now? Are you ready to make a decision?

[00:11:31] Liz Wendling: Do we need to talk again? Because asking for the business isn't always are you ready to sign the contract? It could be. Are you ready to take the next step in this process? Are you ready for what would look like maybe another conversation with the rest of your team? But it's it's moving it along in the right progression, not pushing someone from behind to make a decision faster than they're ready.

[00:11:54] Liz Wendling: It's Truly understanding where someone is and moving with them through that. You could [00:12:00] never make anyone make a decision faster than they're ready because that's pressure. You can do it, but they'll either, you'll piss them off. They'll hate you or they'll cancel the order if you do. So it's about being in alignment, not only with yourself, but also the person that you're talking to.

[00:12:15] Liz Wendling: And there's that finesse there. It isn't, Oh, I'll just get on the phone and talk to someone and they'll buy from me. There's these nuances of communication that draws people in. And then new and communication that pushes people away and we can talk about that later as well. There are some specific language patterns that draw people in and ones that make people go, I don't know about this person.

[00:12:39] Liz Wendling: I don't think so. Right. Right. And they shut you down right then and there. You might have 30 more minutes on the call with them, but they've already made a decision. You're not it.

[00:12:48] Harry: Right. Yeah, absolutely. And you, you're kind of left in a bag, not knowing what went wrong. That's it. Right. Yeah. So, all right. So we've got this side of it, [00:13:00] which I really enjoy is where you're talking about, that as a servant.

[00:13:06] Harry: You're in the best position to serve that person. So if you're not asking for the order and explaining how you work with them, as you described and how you work with people and making the ask with your order, you're really doing a

[00:13:18] Liz Wendling: disservice. Absolutely. And, and also if you're not getting to the real reason why you're on the phone with someone or on a zoom call.

[00:13:27] Liz Wendling: If someone calls you and just says, there's a water leak. Okay. You need to ask a lot of questions and good questions to find out where it's coming from. How long is the problem? Is it big enough to even fix? Sometimes a little drip people could live with for 25 years. Yeah. If it becomes a big drip, there's a, there's a different impact that's happening at that time.

[00:13:48] Liz Wendling: So we have to be willing. We talked about this before we went on air stops. Snorkeling and go scuba diving with your customers go deep, find out, ask those [00:14:00] questions, sometimes uncomfortable questions. Sometimes you have to be a little uncomfortable for them to tell you the truth of where they really are.

[00:14:07] Liz Wendling: Yeah, and that's the difference of people that say, oh, I hate to sell. Yeah, you hate the surface stuff. You, you probably hate the way sales used to be. Not the way sales is now sales done today, sales done well is the most kindest thing you can do for someone to help them either get what they need from you or give them a referral to someone else.

[00:14:27] Liz Wendling: That's the kindest thing you can do for someone.

[00:14:30] Harry: Yeah, so true. And so, like, on that side of the coin, we have what you described and then we have the other side. Which to me is like, I I'm still blown away by people trying to sell without doing any research, any knowledge whatsoever that connect and pitch.

[00:14:49] Harry: I had a person recently asked me if I ever considered being an author and I went it takes, you know, I'm thinking it takes one sentence [00:15:00] on my LinkedIn profile to see that I'm an author and I have a book, I'm holding books. It's like, are you kidding me? Then I get the chain of messages from the same person.

[00:15:12] Harry: And then the last one was where I hit disconnect. Was, have you given up on writing a book? I mean, it takes no time folks to do just a tiny shred of research so that you can have intelligent conversations with people. So is there any helping of these people or should we just say, you know, forget about them.

[00:15:36] Harry: We're just going to go help the people who are just, you know, struggling with. Viewing themselves in sales.

[00:15:42] Liz Wendling: Well, I like to have a little fun with some of those people. Harry, you're a hell of a lot nicer than me, but I'm a

[00:15:47] Harry: Jersey girl from the Northeast. So I have sarcasm in my blood. That's all

[00:15:53] Liz Wendling: I was born in the Bronx, grew up in New Jersey.

[00:15:55] Liz Wendling: So when I get an email, that's. Says that they can, someone can help me grow [00:16:00] my business or triple my sales. And so I'll let the 1st email come through and I wait for the 2nd, 1, to see how hard they're pressing on that issue when they haven't looked at my profile. And, and I will say something snarky to the effect of, you know.

[00:16:14] Liz Wendling: I don't regret a lot of things in my life, but I do regret the day that I connected with you and, and I will say, how could you email me an this email when this is what I do for a living? So I then I turn it around and I sell to them. Sounds like you could use my program. Sounds like, oh, nice. You need the sales clinic.

[00:16:33] Liz Wendling: Sounds like you need to check in right away and get some help, because if you think this approach works, you're crazy. Let's talk if you'd like. And so I, and of course, no one ever takes me up on that or, or, but it's, I think we just either need to play with them or delete them either one. Yeah, but because I've gotten some great emails from people who, hey, Liz, I looked at your profile or, oh, my gosh, you wrote a book on X, Y, and Z, [00:17:00] or, oh, my God, your video that you said about this, that, and that they reference that and they say, you know, I'm having trouble with, or I'm not sure if this would align with what you're doing, but they say something.

[00:17:11] Liz Wendling: This is the difference, Harry. The message was written to me, not at me. There is a huge difference in the sound and the way that it lands when a message feels like it was structured just for me, just for me, instead of the masses. So that's where people need to look at their messaging. Is does it feel like it's going to land as if I wrote a letter right to Harry or does it feel like I wrote it to Harry and Sally and John and Betty and right?

[00:17:40] Liz Wendling: Exactly. That's where language gets in the way if it feel if it doesn't land well, it's not going anywhere.

[00:17:47] Harry: Exactly. And so this, this type of selling.

[00:17:50] Harry: What is a good word for it? This type of

[00:17:53] Liz Wendling: It's really marketing. It's marketing to me. They're trying to market themselves. So people will call it bad selling, [00:18:00] but it's really not. It's crappy marketing. Yeah.

[00:18:02] Harry: Okay. I like it. Yeah. I'm just thinking of if that's the perception that people have of what sales is.

[00:18:12] Harry: I don't like it either. Right. Okay. So for those of you who think that's what selling is, Liz and I are on the same page, but it's not selling. That's not selling. Right. We have a agreement. And so when you were sharing that great insight, I had a thought and I just went back. I've got to be listening.

[00:18:35] Harry: Stop thinking. And I forgot what it was, but it was really brilliant. So you mentioned, we'll go back to that. I know it will resurface the next time you say something, but we'll talk about language because the whole concept of like, I think this is the disconnect in selling. Another disconnect is people feel That if they say the [00:19:00] right thing, if they get some well rehearsed lines down that they're Oh yeah, I know it had to do with the scuba diving.

[00:19:08] Harry: Okay. They get some well rehearsed lines down that that's good enough. That's it. But yes. Talk to me about that and how that, that whole thing with language works with that as

[00:19:20] Liz Wendling: well. Well, it's silly to think that a couple of crutch phrases or a couple of sayings or you have one fabulous closing line is going to completely make people melt into your arms.

[00:19:33] Liz Wendling: It's crazy to think that that is what selling is today. So I. Often, probably every day of my life, a few times a day, I talk about language landmines, word bombs, and crutch sayings and phrase grenades. And I've named them all bombs and landmines and grenades because these words Can cause your communication to blow up in your face, literally, [00:20:00] because when people read these words and phrases that have been around 30, 40, some, in some ways, 50, 60 years, all you do is take someone back 30, 40, 50, 60 years back to the old way of selling.

[00:20:13] Liz Wendling: So you say, I hate to sell. I don't like selling. I don't want to be salesy, but then you drag in an old school phrase or phrase grenade. Like some of the ones I'll, I'll give you an example of. Then you're, you're out of, you're completely incongruent. You're saying, I don't want to sell and be salesy, but I'll use language that makes me sound just like that.

[00:20:32] Liz Wendling: So, I mean, that's so incongruent. So that's another reason why people don't buy from you because you already have the mindset that you don't like to sell. And now you using language. That people don't like to hear. And then you wonder why nobody buys from you, but then you get to blame it on everything else, but yourself.

[00:20:49] Liz Wendling: And a lot of times I see people, they'll say, Liz, I don't understand why people don't get back to me. I don't understand why I have great meetings with people. I met with someone last week for a [00:21:00] hour. I shared so much information. They blew me off, ghosted me, never heard back from them. And then I dig a little deeper.

[00:21:08] Liz Wendling: And I asked them a few questions. What did you say? What did you say in your quote unquote, follow up? How did you try to re engage them? What did you do at the end of the meeting that is either keeping them engaged or pushing them away? So there's a lot of things that can go wrong in a sales conversation, but oftentimes it's the language people use.

[00:21:28] Liz Wendling: After they've had that one on one conversation that they deem fabulous, great, value filled, amazing. When the potential client is thinking, that was a waste of time. And when people don't get back to you, you have to ask yourself, What did I do to cause that? Because if your conversation was free and flowing and beautiful and generic and authentic and open and aligned, people don't, they're not afraid to get back to you to tell you the truth.

[00:21:57] Liz Wendling: When people don't get back to you, it's [00:22:00] because you did something to them where they're in their head. They're saying, I'm not calling that putz back. I'm going to get back to that jerk. He, I didn't like the way she treated me or talk to me, but. They, they don't really know what turned them off, but it was something that you did or said in that conversation that wrote that they wrote you off.

[00:22:19] Liz Wendling: Yeah.

[00:22:19] Harry: So really good. I'm sorry. I don't mean

[00:22:21] Liz Wendling: to interrupt you. Oh, that's okay. And Harry, it happens all the time. So whenever I am working with a new client or a company, I will always have them send me as many messages as they can from follow up messages to prospecting messages. So I can get a flavor of.

[00:22:39] Liz Wendling: What they're doing or not doing in their process that is causing people to blow them off or ghost them. What is causing someone to get all the way through the process and then never talk to them again? And typically, when I'm scrutinizing that there's a lot of words in there that are. Watering down their impact, it's diluting their message.

[00:22:59] Liz Wendling: It's [00:23:00] undermining their effectiveness. It's decreasing their credibility because when they have that 1st, initial meeting, and then someone says, yeah, all right, let's continue the conversation or. Yeah. You know what? Harry send me a proposal or let me take a look at that. Just send it over. But meanwhile, that person is maybe 50 50, or maybe 70 3070.

[00:23:21] Liz Wendling: I don't know about this person. I don't think so. Could be 30 percent interested. We don't know. But then you send an email that says, I know you're busy, so I don't want to waste your time. But I just thought I would follow up or touch base or reach out and check in. I know your plate is full. I don't want to keep bothering you.

[00:23:39] Liz Wendling: And now you have this needy, desperate, push me away tone. That is not strong and powerful. It doesn't draw anyone in. It actually pushes them away. You're apologizing for doing your job. But if you did your job well on that first phone call, you never have to apologize for getting back to anyone because what you're [00:24:00] in essence doing is continuing a beautiful conversation that you already had.

[00:24:05] Liz Wendling: It had so much value in the first one that someone's willing to keep that volley going. So I use the example of a tennis match. You. Send an email. Think of it as lobbing the tennis ball over the net. You send a great email over the, over the net. If it comes back to you, now you know you're in business.

[00:24:24] Liz Wendling: You're talking to someone and they're willing to volley. But if you send an email and it hits the net and then you send another one and it hits the net and you say, I don't mean to bother you again, but I thought I would follow up one more time. I'm not sure if you got my last 27 emails. And that that you've lost momentum.

[00:24:41] Liz Wendling: You're giving away all of your power because you the strong upfront conversation you had didn't have in that first initial meeting isn't strong enough to keep that volley going. So when you use phrases like, I'm sorry to bother you. I hope you had a good weekend. I hope this email finds you. [00:25:00] Well, I hope everyone is hearing a theme here that almost every email.

[00:25:04] Liz Wendling: In their inbox sounds just like that. So why would you set yourself up to sound like everyone else and be like everyone else and be treated like everyone else versus changing your language in your sales conversation and then have that same language follow you through the follow up through that next step of the conversation.

[00:25:23] Harry: Wow. That was so good. And you may have to rewind and revisit this because that was amazing. A question that comes to mind, Liz, so the, I love the volleying, the back and forth, the great conversation, there's so much to go on there. But when you're selling old school sales mode, not that you're doing that, but if a person is doing that, the prospect, the potential buyer may just be very polite and they listen.

[00:25:59] Harry: Doesn't [00:26:00] mean they're interested. But they're just really polite to people and they're listening and the seller can walk away and think I've got a live one, right? They may let me make it through all of my 45 minutes. I gave all of this data. I told them incredible stories and they said they'd be interested in a proposal only because you said I will leave.

[00:26:28] Harry: But would you be interested if I sent you a proposal, right? It has to end somewhere. That's implied that the I will leave part. So Just on that case, right? And in that scenario where a person is doing all the talking. Yes. How do you help them say, look, just because someone's polite doesn't mean they're interested.

[00:26:50] Harry: Where do we go with

[00:26:51] Liz Wendling: that? Well, I would say that if if. Someone is just being polite and you can't pick up on that and they're not sharing their deepest [00:27:00] darkest issues with you. And they're snorkeling with you, not scuba diving with you. And then you offer to do a proposal. Shame on you. Shame on you for wasting your time and their time by sending them a proposal and then following up with them nine times saying.

[00:27:15] Liz Wendling: Not sure if you got my proposal, thought I'd follow up one more time. Hey, I thought I would touch base with you one more time. Do you have a chance to look at that proposal? So shame on you for missing all the beautiful cues that if you got out of your head and into your body, stop selling from your head and start selling in with your heart and your soul, you would pick up on that.

[00:27:35] Liz Wendling: You'd be able to look at someone and say, you know what, Harry, I'm, I don't, I'm picking up on. This or, you know, you said something earlier, and I'm not sure I'm really feeling that the need is truly here to do a proposal or feels a little early for me to do a proposal. I don't have all the information I need.

[00:27:54] Liz Wendling: And if you're just shoving a proposal down, someone's throat, you missed all the beautiful cues and [00:28:00] being in the moment with someone who needs help, but they've already decided 1 that's going to give it to them. Yeah,

[00:28:07] Harry: exactly. James Muir, I think. Wrote this about people having to have to have the, having to have an emotional investment of some sort in the sale, right?

[00:28:19] Harry: Taking a proposal is no emotional investment. Zero opening up to somebody. Yeah. That's the emotional investment. If they're not opening up, telling you what's going on, like you said, your deepest, darkest secrecy in here, then there's, there's no investment in there. So that's why they're ignoring your emails.

[00:28:40] Harry: You've done nothing to open them up to see that they're invested. They took the proposal. So you would go away. That's really what it comes down to.

[00:28:49] Liz Wendling: That's exactly it. And for people who say, I can't, I don't understand why people don't get back to me. They want to blame the potential client when in fact they are [00:29:00] creating that scenario each and every time they're setting themselves up every time to get blown off, brushed off, ghosted.

[00:29:07] Liz Wendling: And completely dismissed.

[00:29:09] Harry: Yeah, exactly. And this is where this whole concept of leading with product or leading with whatever it is you're selling, if it's a product or service, if that's what you're doing, if you're talking about that and not talking about what's important to the client or the prospect.

[00:29:24] Harry: then you're missing a huge opportunity and that's the vast. So you got the people who are really servant minded who don't want to ask for the order. Then you have these other people who are all about selling their product or service. They can't ask or won't ask a simple business question because they're afraid The person might respond with an answer that they're not capable of handling.

[00:29:50] Harry: That's

[00:29:51] Liz Wendling: it. They don't want to look bad, right? They're in there to look good and to sell something. And so there's a lot of messiness right now going on with sales [00:30:00] and selling a lot of messiness. And I, I hope I live long enough to see this messiness corrected, but it is up to each and every one of us. If we are in that forward facing, maybe.

[00:30:11] Liz Wendling: You don't call yourself a salesperson. You're you, you sell a service, but you're selling that service. So you love what you do and you love to do the service that you're selling. You get to do both, but I lost my train of thought. What was I saying? Oh, we have to the messiness. Yeah. You think that you could just download.

[00:30:30] Liz Wendling: A PDF with the 10 questions to ask every client or the you could make 2, 000 an hour by just using this template. Stop believing that there's a quick fix out there. There is a way to sell that aligns with who you are, how, how you show up the way you want to be, the way you want to be viewed, the way you want people to open up to you.

[00:30:54] Liz Wendling: But first you have to know yourself to be able to. Know which direction to go in. If you're just out [00:31:00] for the sale and that's all you care about, then you can hop off of this podcast right now because that's not what neither of us teach, right? We don't teach that. It's about knowing, knowing yourself at such a level that you know The questions you're willing to ask how deep you want to go with someone.

[00:31:17] Liz Wendling: How much quote unquote discomfort can you both be in to get to the resolution to make sure that you're helping someone and to do it in such a way where you're, I say, I'm, I always use the words I'm totally committed, but I'm completely unattached, meaning I'm committed to the conversation you and I are having right now, but I am unattached right now.

[00:31:39] Liz Wendling: To sounding brilliant or looking good. I'm completely unattached the same way. I'm in my sales conversations. I want to be completely in this, but there's going to be a point where I might have to detach because there isn't a sale here. There isn't a reason for us to keep talking. I haven't found it.

[00:31:56] Liz Wendling: You're not ready to do anything or you may not need [00:32:00] me, but I'd rather be able to unplug that instead of keeping that. Keeping the toaster plugged in and, and just burning the toast, right? There's no, you gotta just keep it in there. And so a lot of people do that. They keep going down the path versus, versus detaching and saying, this really isn't a good fit.

[00:32:18] Liz Wendling: I don't know why I'm dragging this person through my emails when this really isn't a good fit. So we have to stop doing that. That's where selling gets messy. That's where people don't like sales because. I sometimes I think to myself, are they not getting the message when you're talking to someone like the way you're talking to them?

[00:32:36] Liz Wendling: How could you not pick up that? Someone is literally turning you off. They're lowering the volume of what you're saying. And you're not seeing that you're just talking at them and it's going right through them.

[00:32:48] Harry: Totally. All right. So I would be remiss. This is so good by the way that I mean, I love it, but I know I have to go into where you helped me out [00:33:00] incredibly a few years ago with this line of not that there was a line, but this thought.

[00:33:07] Harry: Of picking up from where you left off. And to me, that is such a huge game saver or game changer. Excuse me. There's my nervousness again. The game changing thought is to go back to where you were in the previous conversation and versus all of the slimy following up and weirdness that goes on. So can we talk about that for a little

[00:33:32] Liz Wendling: bit?

[00:33:32] Liz Wendling: Absolutely, that is one of my top 3 things I appreciate talking about. So when someone says, hey, I'm just following up. Hey, I'm just touching base. All of that says to me that there's some sort of that. Well, 1st of all, when you use that language, what the client, the potential client is already thinking.

[00:33:52] Liz Wendling: You may be saying, Hey, I'm just following up. But what they hear is, Hey, Ann, let's get the show started. Come on. You called me. We had a nice [00:34:00] conversation. Let's get the ball rolling. Or, you know what, Dan, what's going on? What's the delay? Time is ticking. Let's get this, let this party started. That's what they're hearing.

[00:34:09] Liz Wendling: When you send a message that says, Hey, I'm just following up. I wanted to know if you got the proposal. I wanted to know if you're ready to make a decision and. So think about what you're saying, but what they're actually hearing versus sending a message. Well, even before you send a follow up message, I teach people how to talk about follow up before you actually even do the act of follow up.

[00:34:31] Liz Wendling: So what that means is, let's say you and I had a conversation, Harry, I called to talk to you about your training. And at the end of the conversation, you might, or I might say to you, you know, Harry, I know. Earlier, you mentioned that you're still in the process of looking at some other companies and you're not really not making a decision until maybe sometime next year.

[00:34:51] Liz Wendling: And, but the last thing I want to do is be 1 of those people who just dumps follow up message after follow up message in your inbox. Let's talk about how you [00:35:00] and I will stay connected. What's the best way for us to pick up where we left off when we do connect? How would you like us to keep this verbal exchange going?

[00:35:09] Liz Wendling: And I'm just giving a bunch of examples, not all of this. And so you're honoring that other person in such a way that most people don't, most people don't stop and say, look, I know you get 1000 emails a day, because so do I. And the last thing I want to do is bloat your inbox with another one that says, just following up, just touching base, just reaching out and checking in.

[00:35:30] Liz Wendling: I'd rather talk about what is our next best step right now so that I can honor that and make a note of that. So, this person, I had a couple of people over the years say. I like that. Could you teach my people how to, how to talk like that? . And I like it too because it, it makes me feel like I'm still in charge, not control, but I'm in charge of how this conversation lays out in the future versus getting, having the door slammed in my face.

[00:35:59] Liz Wendling: So someone [00:36:00] might say. You know, I appreciate that. Liz, you know, we are looking at some other things. I know I said we wanted to get something next year, but in all likelihood, it might be until April. All right. So why don't we do this? Or what do you suggest? Or how about this? And before, you know, it. You're having a conversation about follow up, which means you never have to say, I'm just following up, touching base, reaching out and checking in because you've already decided how you're going to do that.

[00:36:29] Liz Wendling: And the big one, Harry, why do you have to announce that you're following up when you're actually doing it? I'm just taking a breath. Oh, I'm going to exhale now, Harry. I'm going to take it. Why would I tell you that I'm following up? I'm doing the act of following up. You don't have to announce it with a big drum roll saying I'm just following up.

[00:36:50] Liz Wendling: Yeah, I know you're doing it. So, again, waste of words versus saying. Hey, and in our last conversation, or when we spoke in [00:37:00] July, you and I talked about, or we conversed about, or you shared with me X, Y, and Z, and the need to do a B and C by Tuesday, and then your conversation is all about. What you guys decided to do in this and then the conversation, I can't tell anybody what to say because I don't know what happened in that previous meeting, but that's the meat of your message is what happened then.

[00:37:28] Liz Wendling: And what you agreed to at the end of that, you and I agreed that we would talk this week to see where you're at, possibly even bring a few more people into the conversation, but you're really just getting a sense of where you left off. And how do I, how do I pick up the baton now and start running with it?

[00:37:46] Harry: Outstanding. I've got to go one other word, the L word, because I would love, love to work with you. I would [00:38:00] love. To sell you my stuff, I would love to have a conversation with you. So tell me what I'm doing there,

[00:38:09] Liz Wendling: Liz. All right, let's bring it home with the L word. So there are lots of troublemaker words, dozens more doozies of language that Have probably already cost you thousands or hundreds of thousand dollars this year by participating in the L word and the L word.

[00:38:30] Liz Wendling: 1st of all, makes you come across the over eager self serving. It's all about you. When you say, I would love to, I'd love to jump on a quick call. I'd love to grab lunch with you. I'd love to set up a zoom meeting. I'd love to set up some time where I can. Tell you all about my services. I'd love the chance to work with you.

[00:38:50] Liz Wendling: I'd love the opportunity to serve you. And I can go on and on and on and on. The minute you drop the L word in that way, I would love to. And then you tell [00:39:00] them what you would love to do. That is the most self serving, salesy language that you could use. It comes across a little too needy, a little too excited, and a whole lot desperate because it's all about what you want.

[00:39:15] Liz Wendling: So the distinction here is it When you say I would love is making a demand versus making a request. It's what you want and what you would love to do. It's not collaborative. It's not inviting. It's all about what Harry wants. I would love to. And when you say that to someone in their head, they're thinking, yeah, of course, you'd love to set up a meeting with me.

[00:39:38] Liz Wendling: You're trying to sell me something, right? So that. People send countless emails with that in there and then they wonder why, I wonder why nobody's getting back to me. I would love to sit down and talk to you. How about, are you open to a conversation? Hi Harry, what is, what does your schedule look like next week [00:40:00] to jump on a call regarding A, B, and C?

[00:40:02] Liz Wendling: How do you feel about, don't tell someone what you want to do to them, invite them into what works for them. Give them a chance to say, you know what, that does work when somebody doesn't respond to, and I would love to set up an appointment with you. It's because you didn't give them a chance to say anything else, but nothing, you didn't give them an opportunity.

[00:40:26] Liz Wendling: But when you ask me a question versus telling me what you want, no matter how nicely you say it, you come across so self serving. And no one wants to do business with someone who's self serving. And I know it's not, I know people aren't doing this because they want to be self serving. They're doing it because everyone else is doing it.

[00:40:45] Liz Wendling: And just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean it works. It just means it's popular. It just means it's old school. It just means that everybody's doing it. So why shouldn't I? So it's how it's received and how it [00:41:00] lands. Makes all the difference. So just because something is popular and just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean you should.

[00:41:07] Liz Wendling: This is your opportunity today to strike that from your language because no one cares what you would love. They care about themselves and what they would love. Ta da!

[00:41:16] Harry: Wow. I would love to keep going for another hour or two. Phenomenal. There's just so much good content on this. Liz, where can people find more of your brilliance?

[00:41:30] Liz Wendling: Oh, they can go right to my website, which is lizwendling. com. And on Amazon, same thing, type in my name, my books will come up. Connect with me on LinkedIn. I'd love, love to see you do that. Your, your connection request. See, even I have to catch myself. Yeah, you do. Yeah. Your connection request will be responded to immediately, but you know, and it, because it's such a habit for all of us, even when you say, I love your blouse or I love your hair.

[00:41:58] Liz Wendling: I love your backdrop. [00:42:00] Who is that about to Harry? That's all about us versus. Your background is beautiful. Your home is lovely. Your car is fabulous. Your tie looks great with that shirt versus I love your tie. I love your boots. I love your hair. So we have to stop being so self serving and, and start serving in a way that serves others.

[00:42:21] Harry: Oh, my goodness. Do you have to eat? We cannot end on that. That requires a little explanation. I mean, because I'm guilty of this. Okay. But you're you have helped me and you don't know, but I've replayed in my mind this podcast you and I were on a couple of years ago. And you're an immense help about bringing me back to the conversation, getting past the I'd love or I'd love to do so.

[00:42:49] Harry: Which I could go on for that one because I love that conversation as well. But when you just said, I love your tie or I love your haircut or I love whatever, I love your background.[00:43:00] You're touching on something there with the I word. Yes. I just picked up on it a little bit as to why. That is not the best way to compliment someone.

[00:43:11] Harry: So tell me what you're thinking so I can sleep at night. Okay.

[00:43:16] Liz Wendling: So when you say, I love your blouse, or you say, Oh, I love your, I love your doggy, or I love your car. All someone can really say is. No, thank you. Right. It, it, it, it doesn't really land on them. It's like, oh, thanks. Versus stopping someone and saying your session today was terrific or your book was so amazing or your kids are so darling.

[00:43:43] Liz Wendling: And it, it lands so beautiful on the other person. It's received in such a different way. You can almost see someone's face light up when you say. Your home is beautiful or your Children are so special versus. I love your kids. [00:44:00] Oh, thanks. And I, and I, I had a man's the first time I spoke about this was about 12 years ago.

[00:44:06] Liz Wendling: I was doing a speaking engagement and a man came up to me and he said. I never looked at it that way. He says, but I'm going to try it this week and I'm going to report back to you. And he said, he got in the elevator with someone that was works in his company, but he never knew how to have a conversation with her.

[00:44:24] Liz Wendling: She had beautiful red hair. And he said, I wanted so many times to tell her that I love your red hair, but in an email, I mean, in an elevator, it be kind of weird. So he said, I tried it and I made it about her. And I, and he said to me, I told her, you have such stunning red hair. And I've always wanted to tell you that, but it just looks so beautiful.

[00:44:43] Liz Wendling: And he said, she stepped back, not because it was weird. It's she stepped back. She felt it. And she looked at him, touched her heart and said, thank you. And he said, I was convinced that that worked. Because he got feedback immediately [00:45:00] that if he said, I love your hair, she would have just said, thank you. She wouldn't have stopped touched her heart and said, oh, thank you.

[00:45:06] Liz Wendling: But when he said, your hair is so beautiful. It's I've always wanted to tell you that, but I'm doing it right now. It was he got the proof right away. So I'm telling everybody, try it. Go do that to someone and watch what happens when you say it from your heart. Watch how it lands on someone else. And imagine doing that in every email, every message that your messaging is landing exactly how you want it to land.

[00:45:31] Liz Wendling: Imagine that. Imagine the sales that come in when you take the time to do that. I

[00:45:36] Harry: am imagining and visualizing, and this has been a blast. Jam packed with value. Liz Wendling on the sales made easy podcast. You are the best.

[00:45:49] Liz Wendling: Thank you so much.

[00:45:50] Thank you for listening to Sales Made Easy. If you found value in our conversations, please subscribe and leave a review. Our goal is to [00:46:00] provide practical strategies for growing your business while staying true to your values. Remember, six. Success in sales is about serving your clients. Serve first and the selling will follow.

[00:46:11] . .