Mastering Video Success Through Storytelling with Tom Langan

I thought it was so cool when I learned that, you know, Benjamin Franklin is widely regarded as the father of content marketing. And when I learned about the story of the poor Richard's almanac that he started publishing in 1733 in Philadelphia, in order to help grow his publishing and printing companies

Welcome to Sales Made Easy, a podcast or Business and Personal Growth. Now, here's your host, Harry

​my friend, Tom Langan is joining us on the Sales Made Easy podcast. And we are going to be talking about one of my favorite topics, video. And Tom has got a fascinating background, having spent about 20 years in the video business in television. And it's got a great history serving people. And I'm really fascinated by this fellow. He's also written a book called legendary, which we're going to dive into. So Tom, welcome to the sales made easy podcast. What's the good word.

Thanks so much for having me here. I really appreciate it. And I guess the good word is legendary. Let's go with that.

Legendary is a great word. So Tom, obviously that's the title of your book. Why Legendeering? I gotta ask that one

first. Sure. I mean, you know, when I was, when I was looking for the strategy that's described in the book Legendeering, which I also call Legendeering, is the namesake of the book really came first, right? And when I was working with developing the name of this strategy, I, I had this strategy, but I had to put a name to it. Right. And when I was trying to figure out what that name was going to be, I was tossing words around. I was doing, you know, like word maps and just all kinds of stuff, trying to come up with something. And, and I kept coming back to story, right. Stories, storytelling, stories, something along that line. And then sort of this idea that you're really constructing things, right. And so because of that idea that you're sort of constructing stories, I landed on legend for story. Right. And engineering for the idea that it's a deliberate construction process, right. It's a deliberate build process. Right. And so that's, that's the, that's where legendeering comes from. It's a, it's a combination of those two words, legend for story engineering for the idea that you're deliberately constructing something with precision and detail and so yeah, legendeering. Okay,

so storytelling with the engineering flair to it, which is really cool because it's it's requiring some thought. It's not just randomness, which some of us are very familiar with. But so you have an incredible background. If I'm not mistaken, you've been nominated for a couple of Emmy awards. You started out in television industry, industry by kind of a fluke, right? Where you were kind of looking for work. Someone gave you a referral. Is that the story? So I'd like to hear a little bit about your, how you got started and then your journey and see where that takes

us a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. So I was a psych major in college and I decided that I didn't want to go to graduate school. You know, I was 22 years old. I had spent 18 years of my life in, in school as a student. It was the only thing I'd ever done. And I was, I was anxious to try something new. So I didn't want to go to graduate school. And so I was on the phone with a friend of mine, one night friend of mine from high school. It was March of my senior year in and my parents were starting to get on my case about finding a job. And I told her this parents. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. And I, and I told her this, I said, you know, my parents are really starting to ride me about getting a job. And and she said, well, why don't you call my dad? And I said, why would I call your dad? And she said, well, he's starting a new show. Her father owned a production company. She said, he's starting a new show. He knows you, he likes you. He knows that you'll work hard. He knows the kind of person you are, and he's gonna need. Entry level people, he's going to need production assistance, right? PAs, which is sort of the, the entry level position in, in the production industry. And so she said, why don't you call him? And if he's got a PA slot available, I'm sure he'll give it to you. So I called him and he said. Sure. I think we have, if we have something available, my line producer would know. Why don't you talk to my line producer, Bob. So he puts me on the phone with Bob. I talked to Bob. Bob says, yeah, everything looks good. Dates line up. You know, John said, you're good to go from his perspective. So when can you start? And I told him, well, I graduate on mother's day. It was May 13th that year. I think I gra I said, I graduated on mother's day. So I, I need to move back to New York. So say a week from, from the 14th. Right. So I think it was May 21st of 20 2001, I almost said 2020, 2001. And and yeah, so he said, all right, works for us. You're hired. And that was, that was my first job in television. So, you know, I started out, I was fetching coffee. I was carrying heavy, heavy cases of equipment. I was driving vans around. I was not doing anything technical or, or exciting. But I had fun and it was a challenge and I learned a lot of new stuff and I really thrive in an environment where I'm sort of intellectually challenged and I get to learn a lot of new things. And so it was it was a great experience for me. I had a lot of fun and when that show ended, I got another job and then I got another job and then I got another job and I just stayed in, in production. And I ended up, I started as that guy fetching coffee and taking lunch orders and carrying stuff around that production assistant. And I ended up as a series producer and showrunner in in television. So I was I was managing, I was responsible for overseeing the series wide production of television shows for networks. So I was, you know, I was about two rungs from kind of the top dog on the on the ladder even though I started at the bottom. So that was my career in television in a nutshell.

Yeah. Fascinating. It's amazing how life sometimes finds us. I mean, opportunity seemed to have found you and you said yes. And look where it led, right? What's your thought on that?

Yeah, I might've, I, you know, who knows? Maybe I would have been a good improviser. Cause I'm, it seems like I'm good. I'm good with the yes. And right. So may, I dunno, maybe I would have been a good maybe I should have gone to upright citizens brigade or something, but But, you know, look, I, I'm always, I'm one of those people, it's part of my personality for sure. I'm always up for an adventure, right? I'm always up for a challenge. I'm always up for an adventure. I'm always up for something new and exciting and different and fun and challenging. And so yeah, I, you know, that's, it makes perfect sense. Personality wise, but education wise experience wise, it didn't really make any sense. It was a complete kind of fluke that I ended up in production. But yeah.

Yeah. So the lessons for parents out there is you send your kid to school does not mean that's going to be where they end up finding their joy in whatever they studied. Right. It's can be something completely different, but I'm willing to bet you tied in. your psychology background to some of the work that you're doing. Am I right or wrong

on that? Yeah. I mean, look, I, I was a psychology major because I really enjoyed psychology in college. Except for the statistics courses I had to take which I were fine. I just didn't find them very interesting or fun. But I was always good with that kind of math. So it wasn't, it wasn't a big challenge really. But the, the sort of experimental side of psychology the idea that you would construct these experimental paradigms that were very rigid, where the goal was to always eliminate as many variables as possible so that you could really tune in on exactly what it was that you were trying to measure was really interesting to me and, and kind of. fit with my, the way my brain works pretty well. And and, and the, the results that people got, I was always fascinated with the human condition, so to speak. And to use a, I don't know, it seems like a kind of a cheesy cliche way to say that, but I genuinely was always fascinated with people. And what makes people work and how people work and why people do the things that they do and in, in certain situations and in, in interactions and things like that and how people communicate with each other. And so for me you know, psychology made a lot of sense, I think, in, in terms of that. And then, you know, it, it, it. Because because it fit my personality so well, I think it also was inevitable that I was going to carry it forward into whatever I ended up doing. And I, and I do that today. It's really funny. For a long time, I thought the fact that I was a psychology major in college was completely disconnected from my career in television. And you know, since becoming an entrepreneur and, and working on my own and starting my own business I spent a lot of time networking and speaking to groups and, and, and connecting with other people in the, in the business world. And one of the things that I find happening more and more often is that as I get to know people and they ask me, what did I study in college? And I say, psychology, they go, Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, that's so funny.

I might have said that when I found out as well. Add me to the group. Yeah. Group think. But yeah, so I mean, you're detailed. Obviously, you understand people. And I love one of the stories in the book where you were shipped off to Alaska, or you volunteered, right? Or someone asked you, if you want to go to Alaska, and you're like, yeah, I'm in. I mean, it seemed like you gave that very little thought when you're talking about the adventure guy earlier that you're up for an adventure. Was there much thought in going to work with the Coast Guard or film the Coast Guard in

Alaska? You know, so funnily enough, it. And it's, it's, it's strange. I mean, strange how opportunities like that sort of present themselves at, at the perfect or most opportune moment. Which seems to be a common thing. You always hear people say things like that when they talk about these sort of big life changing decisions that they make. And, and it was absolutely true in this case, I had just gotten out of. About a three year relationship. We had been living together. She had just moved out, literally within weeks of that relationship ending and her moving out. I was on the road in Detroit on a different project that I didn't really love. And I got a phone call out of the blue from somebody I hadn't worked with for like two years. And he said basically he said, I need, I need you. Are you in? And I said, like, when do you need to know? And he said ASAP. And I think, I think I took 24 hours at the outside. That's the most like, it may have been a few hours. I genuinely don't remember, but it was basically, he called me and I was like, actually the timing is perfect. Yes, please. Let's go.

Wow. And so that was a two year stint if I'm not mistaken, right?

Yeah, which I didn't know at the time. It was really that initial phone call was for like a trial. And it was basically, it was in, it was, it was in September, I think. No, it definitely was. I don't think I know it was in September. And in 2011 and basically he said, give me to Thanksgiving and I said, okay, I can do that. So it was really like about eight weeks was, was what the initial sort of commitment was. So I didn't sign up on 24 hours notice to do two years in Alaska. Although that's not out of the realm of possibility. Like that, that is something that I might have signed up for at that point in my life, but it's, it's not the reality of it. The truth. But yeah, it was about eight weeks and he said, can you give me like, give me to Thanksgiving? And I said, okay, I can do that. Let's let's go.

Yeah. So that, that experience shape your thinking in some ways, would you say seemed like it was a very, I mean, one of the stories in the book is really impactful about helping this, you know, hearing this story of this woman who lost her husband at sea, I believe, but how, how did that experience help shape you for who you are today?

Yeah, I, you know, I think it was really the impact. Of what that experience had on me later on, right? It wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't the impact at the time. It was how it affected me later on and how it colored my thinking of what I was doing later on. And what I mean by that is. That particular story that you're talking about, about the woman whose fiance was lost at sea tragically and, and this sort of conversation and relationship, that came out of that between myself and her and the show you know, One of the, like, what really ended up happening was I, I felt in that particular case, we'd made a positive difference for her in her life. Right? We, we told the story of who her fiance was. He was her fiance. He was the father of her children. He was, you know, sort of center of their world. Right? And, and in an instant to them, you know, in a phone call, it was all gone. And, and. We told that story we told it in a way that really honored who he was and the impact that he'd had on his world. And, and the positive things that he had left behind. The legacy that he left behind in his children and, and going forward after that it kind of made a lot of the rest of the stuff I was doing seem. much less important. And in some cases seem really like the wrong direction for me. You know, after having had that experience and, and, you know, being able to tell a story like that and having a positive impact on, on someone else's life and being reminded of that, because as I say in the book, she would regularly reach out to me and let me know every time she saw the episode, she would reach out and let me know that she saw it and it made her smile. And her kids liked seeing it because they got to hear about their dad and you know, on TV and, and after having gone through that experience, you know, like. Doing, doing the silly, sometimes silly things that I was doing professionally just seemed so weak by comparison, right? And so I just had to I had to, I had to change things.

Yeah, I love that story and I think you went on to talk somewhere in the book. I think it was something about ratings and where you do things in television. Sometimes you have to do it for ratings and you lose that authenticity and it sounds like a really authentic, touching story. So fast forward is now 2018 or so, I believe. And you say, you know what? I've just been nominated for a couple of awards. I didn't know when either, but is this it? Is that kind of what your thinking was going through at did I get that right? Was that the year right? Is the thinking right? Or am I making this up?

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean at that point in my life, you know, I was, it was, yeah, it was around 20, it was 2018. And I was nominated for a couple of Emmy awards. I'd already started kind of changing and adjusting my career path in television. And, and in order to do that, I was really focused on moving out of the sort of series producer role that I had, I had held and moving more towards the director of photography role, which is the person who kind of oversees the look of the film. Of a, of a show. So who, who runs the camera department, who helps to kind of set the look and, and feel visually of a show. And I was focused much more on that kind of work at that point in my career. And and, and I just, you know, I got to a point where, I decided that or I recognized that I just wasn't happy. I just wasn't happy doing what I was doing anymore. And so I, I decided that I needed to make a change. And, and one of the things that I realized was there was a huge need for better communication between businesses and the communities that they serve. And and I felt that I was well equipped to provide that. To fill that need right to provide to fill that hole. And so yeah, so that's, that's when I, that's when I kind of started down this entrepreneurial road.

Congratulations. Yeah, for those of you don't know, you really got to get the book. I mean, Tom is just, he tells these stories in the book that are just. Phenomenal in my opinion. And you know, having watched you speak and talk about being a 10 year old kid that fell in love with a beer company and things like this is like what, where is this going and then you just kind of weave the story in and out. So how Did you come up? Was this something that you saw throughout the television industries? You saw all this story connecting throughout the shows? Or is this something that you said? I'm going to go on a personal mission and better understand story and content. So Tom, one of the things that, you know, I find impressive about you is how you can weave stories in when you're speaking, you know, whether it be from the 10 year old who fell in love with the beer company, or you start talking about Ben Franklin and, you know the books that the book that he wrote back in the 1700s, the weekly book, which the name escapes me. And I'm just fascinated that you. Somehow uncovered all of this. Was this really the television background or is it like a mission, personal mission that you said? I really want to get to the root of storytelling.

Yeah. I, you know, the, so what you're referring to for Benjamin Franklin, there is the the poor Richard's almanac. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Which he first published in, 1733. And the beer for anybody wondering that I I fell in love with when I was 10 years old is Guinness. And it was because of the Guinness Book of World Records. But, you know, really, I think it's, again, it goes to my personality and who I am. I was very much that incredibly annoying kid who responded to everything with why. I was, you know, I, I, I am sure I drove my parents nuts incessantly asking why, because every time they said, well, we're going to do it this way. I would say, why? Well, this is the way you have to do it. Why? This is the way this works. Why? Right. This goes first. Why? Right. That was my answer to everything. I always wanted to understand. And I even, I even, Was the kid who took my toys apart to figure out how they worked. I had specifically, I remember having this, this quote unquote robot. It was a robot shaped machine. It wasn't a robot really. But it was this robot and it would drive around and then you would add, I think it was just machine oil. You would add a little bit of like machine oil to it and it had a heating element in it and it would like, like blow smoke out. And and I took it apart to figure out how it was making the smoke.

Okay. Makes sense.

Why not? Exactly. Exactly. So, and I put it back together and it worked. But which I was very proud of. Not all of my toys worked after I put them back together, but that one did. But yeah, it's, again, it's a personality thing. I think I was always just an, an overly curious kid. I've always wanted to understand how things work and how the world works and how people work. And and, and to me that really involves two parts, right? One, the discovery for myself, but then two getting to share that discovery with other people. And, and I think, yeah. It was important to me to, to study storytelling, to learn about storytelling, which I had to do in my career in television anyway but to really understand how to tell stories and convey information to people in a digestible, memorable way so that I could share those kinds of experiences. Like I, I thought it was so cool when I, when I learned that, you know, Benjamin Franklin is widely regarded as the father of content marketing. And when I learned about the story of the poor Richard's almanac that he started publishing in 1733 in Philadelphia, in order to help grow his publishing and printing companies I was really intrigued by that. And then of course, I want to share that, right? Like I'm, I'm excited. I got a shiny new thing I know, and I want to tell people about it. So, so I think it's that you did nation.

Yeah. I'm really glad you did. And I also love, what you did, like, so you, the stories are memorable. Which is the huge thing, which is what, you know, people want to give facts and figures and say all kinds of stuff about how great their company is. But I mean, you gave a speech a few weeks ago. I'm still thinking about it. Right. I know I'm going to be thinking about Ben Franklin as the first content provider with the printing press, you know, probably years from now. I was like, yeah, I don't know where I heard it, but this was, and it came from, you know, Tom's book. So. This where this leads me to is I think you're real well one of your gifts is the way you approach sales and marketing, because I'm a huge believer in a service mindset of selling so my mantra is serve first the selling will follow. And then I'm reading your book I see surfers sell second or something like that surfers selling second and something along those lines like this is perfect. So, Obviously, I mean, you are not in a selling arena professionally. I'm sure you had to sell people all the time on ideas and what looked better and your philosophical views and so forth, but when you started your own business, first of all, did you ever see yourself as a person that was going to be selling per se?

No. And to be perfectly honest, I still don't. I don't, I would, I, I don't describe myself as a salesman, or a sales person, not, and I don't, I just mean that cause I don't see myself that way. I also don't describe myself as a marketer. Yeah. Because I also don't see myself that way. Right. I see myself as, as a, as a, an expert in communications. Particularly through the medium of video. Cause that's what most of my background is in. But, but yeah, I mean, that's how I see myself. I don't see myself as a, as a salesperson. I don't see myself as a marketer. And I think maybe that's, that's, you know, Why I found the modicum of success that I've found so far in business is because I'm very much, you know, my, my, my, my core value is the core value of legendeering, which is to always lead with value, right. To always seek to give more than you take. And and yeah, so I, you know, we're, we're very much in agreement on that. That you should always always give first. Yeah. And

I love what you say about giving without any expectation in return, which is where does that come

from? You know, I, it really, what it comes from is, is again a psychological precept, right? So this, this idea of reciprocations that I talk about at length in the book and that you, I know you and I have talked about before in other conversations, Where, you know, it really only works if you give without strings attached, and that's the idea of giving without expectation that you cannot, if you try to give someone a gift and attach a condition to it, right, is really what I mean by strings attached or without expectations, there can't be a condition attached to that gift, you cannot say to someone, I'll give you this, but only if Right. A gift has to be a gift, right? It can't be an ask. And so, so that's really where it comes from is that this under my understanding of this psychological precept that it doesn't work if you don't give freely, right? Without condition, without expectation, that, that that's really the only way to give a

gift. Otherwise it becomes a it's a payment.

It's a transaction. Is it right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, so you're saying, I don't mean to minimize it by saying thing, but what you do is really you help with long form video. I am fascinated with video, as you can probably tell by looking at my tick tocker, YouTube. But it's all short form, but I think we're on the same page as far as providing value and Tell me about, like, the way you see video to be used with businesses versus the way it's often used and what the disconnect is there for people.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think the way most businesses think of using video, even in a marketing context, is not really as marketing. They think of using it as advertising, right? And marketing and advertising are not the same thing. A lot of people think they are. Marketing is about building relationships, right? And advertising is about building relationships. Selling. And those are two different things, right? Now they're related in the process, right? In a, in a, in the context of a business, those two things do tend to go hand in hand. You build relationships and then leverage those relationships into sales, right? So they're not unrelated, but they're also not the same thing. And, and so what I like to try to help people do or help people focus on is this idea that you can use communications effectively to, to develop long lasting, meaningful relationships with the community that you seek to serve. And I don't say customers, right? Very intentionally, I say the community that you seek to serve for two reasons. One, because every business is a service business, full stop. You cannot describe a business to me that does not solve a problem for someone, whether it's a product through a product or through a service, right? Or through education, every business is designed to solve a problem for a person or a group of people, right? Or an avatar, right? And, and what that means is that there is a person on both sides of every transaction, right? So you are always. Serving someone in whatever business you're in. So one, every business is a service business. And then two, the other reason that I say, you know, that you can use this long form content to, to build these long lasting, meaningful relationships is, is really because In those in those relationships, they're all built on an exchange of value, right? All the best relationships we have in our lives are built on an exchange of value. And so, so in order to, to, to really sow the seeds of, of those relationships and build up that community, then I think you really have to, to, As I say, lead with value all the time, right? And that community is about building relationships, not just with the people who are going to become your customers or who currently are your customers, but other people around those people, other people who share your values, because those people who are often overlooked in a business context can be as valuable, if not more valuable than the relationships that you have with customers, because the people who feel that they've gained from their relationship with your organization, but are not people who can become customers or clients of yours, are going to look for ways to return that value to you right through other means. So what are they going to do? They're going to go out and they're going to Advocate for your business, right? And so those advocates that you develop through those relationships can sometimes bring in 10 times the business that one customer brings in, right? And often those people are overlooked because again, People confuse at marketing and advertising and they try to use video for advertising only and they don't look to build relationships. And at the end of the day, it's a short term solution to a long term problem and it doesn't work.

Yeah. This is where. The Red Bull stuff comes in right where you're talking about give people what they want and Red Bull is not, you don't see them with their videos promoting everything about the ingredients and the taste of their drink. So give me, I mean, so can you elaborate a little bit on that? Absolutely.

So, so if you go to, if you go to Red Bull's YouTube channel, right, or even their Instagram for that matter, cause we're talking about long term video, but also short term video. And, and Legendary actually, for the record, does incorporate both. But, the, the idea is that you go to either one of those places and you will not find product imagery alone. You will not find videos of anybody just cracking open a Red Bull and drinking it. And, You won't find content that simply revolves around the consumption of Red Bull. You won't find advertising content, right? What you will find is a lot of content marketing, right? You will find a lot of content that is appealing to their audience. Right. So you'll find a lot of action oriented content. You'll find a lot of adrenaline inducing you know, high adrenaline sports extreme sports, right. Things like people jumping out of planes, people racing planes, people racing cars, right. People doing all kinds of crazy stuff, people surfing, people snowboarding, right. People skiing in the back country, all of these kinds of things you'll find all over Red Bull. Pages right all over their social media all over their video content, but you won't find people drinking red bull While they're doing any of those things because it's not advertising content. It's content marketing So what they're doing is they're giving their audience the content that their audience wants to watch And they're tying that value The value of that content that they've produced, that they've spent their own money on, that they've paid athletes for, et cetera, they're tying that value that they're providing to their community, to their brand. So what you will see is you will see a Red Bull logo on everything that like holds still long enough for them to stick a logo on there's a logo, right? If, if it sticks, it has a Red Bull logo on it, right? But they don't talk about Red Bull. They don't talk about the drink. They don't talk about how, how it makes you feel or anything like that. What they do is they give you what you want. And then they tie that value to your brand. So basically they're, they give a gift. They say, here's this thing that we know you enjoy, right? Here's this toy that you've been asking for. And then they just sign the card.

So cool. The, this is where a mistake is made frequently. I think is people can give a gift and then they'll say things like in a one to one personal relationship, they give a gift and then they'll say, remember me next time you need something like, remember me when you're in the market so I can sell you something based on what I just gave you. Right. So just, just let it go is really what you're saying is like, let it, let people figure it out, provide the value and let them figure it out. More or less

just sign the card. Yeah. Sign the card, right? Sign the card. That's all you got to do. Yeah. Just let them know who it's from. Yeah. So really good. The,

yeah. So just, so apply it today. If you, if someone were to say, Tom, I wanted to create more video, I'm not really sure I'm ready for you yet, but to help me get started, what would be A couple of things that I would want to do to get started in video, whatever the size of the company, I'll let you describe it, whatever you want

to do. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think there are so many, I heard this thing and I, I, I, I tend to use it a lot now and I gravitate towards it. Maybe just because it's it supports my own position, but maybe because it's true, I heard a thing recently where somebody said, whenever somebody asks you a question, you can always tell when somebody is an expert versus. Somebody who is cosplaying an expert because the expert role will always say to you, it depends, right? And, and the person cosplaying the expert will give you a, a, a two step process that, that solves every problem. Right? So, so all of that is to say, It depends. But

I had a feeling I was going to get. It depends. Yeah. Yeah.

But, but I'll give you, I'll give you a couple of like very broad strokes, like sort of high level things that you should be thinking about. Yeah. Right. Places to start thinking about, start planning, start strategizing. Cause that's that I can give without. a lot of context, right? So I think the, the thing I always like to talk about when it comes to the very first steps, when you're thinking you want to use video as part of your content strategy, right? And you want to start doing it more for your business and use it to help grow your business. There's a couple of things you should be thinking about right away. And the first is where do you want to go? What is the end goal? What's your destination? And the way I always describe this process to people is thinking about it like a road trip. You know, when I, when I, and I'm going to date myself a little bit but when I started driving there was no GPS, there was no Google maps, there were no smartphones, right? There weren't cell phones in cars. I mean, they, they existed, but not very many people had them. And I certainly didn't at 16 years old. But what I did have was a Rand McNally road Atlas that my parents gave me. Right. And one of the things that they did when I, before I got my driver's license was they sat me down and they taught me how to use that road Atlas so that if I ever wanted to go somewhere, I could find it on the map and then I could use that map to figure out. where I was and where I was going and plan a route to get me to where I wanted to go. And so that's how I kind of want people to think about using video as a content part of their content strategy is to start with their end goal. So is your end goal to build relationships with a broader community? Great. Great. If that's your end goal, then start backwards engineering that process to get you from where you are to growing that community. Right. And, and when you do it that way, everything you do in the interim, everything you do along the way is intentional. It's, it's specifically designed to get you closer to that end goal, right? So don't just, don't just get in the car and start driving, right? Spend a little bit of time, figure out where you want to go first, right? Then pack, then load the car, pack, then load the car. Right. Then make sure you make that one last trip to the bathroom and then you get in and you start driving. Right. But you have to do all those steps first. And a lot of people tend to like to just skip ahead to let's get in the car and start driving. So that's, that's the two things I would say is, is, first figure out where you want to go. Right. What is your end goal with the content you want to produce, right? Because that will inform what it is that you produce. And then, and then second, once you do that, do all the planning necessary to give yourself the best opportunity to get to that destination. Don't just don't just start going, sit down, plan first, and then execute on a plan. Nice. And

if someone needs someone to help them with a plan, they can talix media may not be a bad place to look up.

We can, we can do that. We can help. Absolutely. Absolutely. Great. Yes, exactly.

Love the book. Another video of me holding the book on 70 something, but super valuable. Love the stories. Poor Richard's almanac was not about selling printing paper and ink, ladies and gentlemen, it was giving content to what the audience wanted, just like Red Bull is doing today. So this is all great stuff, Tom, where can people obviously, what's the best place to find them other if they're not watching the video with a QR code?

Yeah you can find me all over the internet. So if you want to connect with me on social media, you can do so just by searching at talixmediallc. And then if you want to check out my website, you can do that. It's just www. talixmedia. com. And then for more information on Legendeering or to order a copy you can go to legendeering. io.

Beautiful. Now put all those in the show notes for you. Great stuff, Tom. It's been super helpful and educational. Loved it.

Thanks for joining me. Appreciate your time, Harry. Thanks so much for having me.

Thank you for listening to Sales Made Easy. If you found value in our conversations, please subscribe and leave a review. Our goal is to provide practical strategies for growing your business while staying true to your values. Remember, six. Success in sales is about serving your clients. Serve first and the selling will follow.