Storybrand: Finding Success through the Hero's Journey Formula with Scott Proposki

Ladies and gentlemen, we have Scott Proposky joining the sales Made Easy podcast. And Scott, if you don't know, he is a former White House photographer who has turned to helping photographers and creatives build better businesses. And he also host a great podcast, which I've been blessed to be on, called 03:00 Coffee. And I think it's 03:00 somewhere, but it was a very nice podcast. So I encourage you to check out that show and leave Scott a nice review. So, Scott, welcome to the Sales Made Easy podcast. What is the good word, sir?

Scott [00:00:45]:

The good word is I got up today, and it's a great day.

Harry Spaight [00:00:50]:

You keep it simple, a little gratitude.

Scott [00:00:53]:

Keeping it simple. Photography, business Made Simple is my product and services. I'll tell you a little story why I said, that my dad's birthday today. Oh, he's 81.

Harry Spaight [00:01:07]:

Wow. Congratulations to Scott's dad.

Scott [00:01:10]:

Yeah. And I called him this morning. I said, Let the celebration begin. And I said, what's the good word? He goes, I got up this morning. I got up this morning.

Harry Spaight [00:01:24]:

I like your dad already.

Scott [00:01:25]:

I stuck in my head. And I said, So that's the good word for my dad? He got up this morning. Yeah.

Harry Spaight [00:01:30]:

Well, you know, there is value in appreciating the little things in life, like breathing. Getting up without breathing and without being able to get up, our lives would be a whole lot different.

Scott [00:01:45]:

Yeah. You don't kind of experience that actually last in 2022. Get the years. I had a few knee surgeries, and my knee and me are still trying to get to know each other because the body's older than the new than the knee. So we're just trying to figure out each other. Okay. As well as the shoulder. That's brand new, too. So it's been a little challenging year, right? Get to know everybody. And so when you wake up one day and you're in your living room.

Harry Spaight [00:02:22]:

And you're using a walker oh, my goodness.

Scott [00:02:27]:

And you're like, come home from surgeries, they throw you back home and like, how did this happen? Like, boom, I'm in a walker in my house. Why? So we got through all that. And so people say, Scott, you're always so happy. I'm like, I'll tell you, from the days of using my walker on my house and not being able to use my hand and my arm for six, seven months, you know what? I feel great. Just like my dad said, I got up this morning, right? And I can really appreciate when you don't have something, you get it back. You could have all the money in the world, but if you can't walk and move and do things, what good is it? So I'm enjoying walking, moving, and getting up.

Harry Spaight [00:03:15]:

Yeah, I totally can appreciate that. It's unfortunate, but we take so much for granted in life. And when we're kids, I'd say younger than 40, there is no mortality in sight. And then maybe in our late 40s, we hit the 50, and then we realize we're on a downward slope if we live to be 100. It's kind of always been the benchmark for me. I've got less going down than I had going up. So got to appreciate every day, because you never know what really lies ahead and how many have left.

Scott [00:03:59]:

Yeah, kind of segue into selling is what we're talking about. And so many people, when I talk to them, it's usually a story. And I know Donald Mello, the story brand. He's one of my coaches. So I'm a big believer of the story brand and having a story that sells, right? Yeah, it's the framework for a lot of people. But I actually do it naturally because I'll use a story, and I'll talk to somebody, and before I'm even finished the conversation, it's about, okay, so how do I get started? What do I need to do? And it was because of the story that I told.

Harry Spaight [00:04:42]:

Well, you got me going with a story about your dad's birthday. So it is these little micro stories even are super valuable in sales, so yet tell us a little bit about your history, Scott, because I asked you earlier, I said, have you ever had, like, a real job? Because I'm looking at your bio and LinkedIn, and it's always been you've been around the world of photography, and now you're helping small businesses, so you've always been entrepreneurial.

Scott [00:05:16]:

I never had a job like being hired for a job other than for a quick, hot minute. A quick, hot minute. In 2020, during the pandemic, I was caught in my house. I'm like, I need to do something and go out. And I took this corporate job. Oh, boy. And not in my field, not in my unique ability, but I'm like, nothing else going on. Let's see if I can help out. And it was for a major company that makes the spray for the disinfectants. Right. I'm like, I'll help out. I only made it three days. I made it three days. It was a hot minute, but I did it intentionally, actually, to go through the process of getting hired and understanding the HR. And actually, it was a little bit longer than that. I went through the new hire orientation, and I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the workshops. I enjoyed talking to people. But when the workshops were done, I was like, okay, go back. You got to go to work. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. I didn't know what I'm doing. But I was just intrigued by the whole process and culture of a big corporation, because I never experienced that before. I never had the time to take down time to experience what that actually is. And it's still really intriguing to me because I just live a different mindset. And I never had any job, and I've always been in the photography world and had this ten times thinking sort of mindset, which landed me to national geographic and HBO and not that long ago with president Obama at the white house. And you just didn't have any fear. It's fear that holds a lot of people back from selling or doing their own business. I just had no fear. It was just straight. And so when I was in that corporate job, for a moment, it's more like there's nothing wrong with this picture, right? But certain people work time for money. It's how the economy works. Totally cool. My mind, like many others, just works a little bit different. Where I see effort is a paycheck for myself. So I could go on maybe all month and not really have a paycheck, but at the end of the month, at the end of this project, I can see that my assets are my reward versus other people is that Friday paycheck. So I work in a different economy. Effort equals money, not time versus money. This is what makes corporate America go around. This is what makes great entrepreneurs, they actually work in a different economy and the way they think.

Harry Spaight [00:08:19]:

Yeah, well, so many trade time for money. And I literally just texted my children, my young adult children, about a video I saw of a person who was using affiliate links to make an income. And my text was, you have to stop thinking about trading time for money because you'll never be wealthy that way. So you've had this thinking. Did it come from your parents? I remember working for $2 an hour on a golf course when I was 16. So did you have this type of training from your parents about being an entrepreneur or whatever?

Scott [00:09:14]:

My dad was a photographer, and he lived a life of being a wedding photographer. And when you were a wedding photographer back in 1960s and 1970s, that's kind of all you did. And there wasn't a lot of competition around, so you were like in your neighborhood. Literally. You become the expert of that field because you just couldn't go anywhere. And that went on for a very long time. And you think of that as your product and services. They were not commoditized at that time from my dad being a wedding photographer in 1960s. And then as time went on, that particular field, like many others that service a product got commoditized and people could start price shopping it, and you have this AB to cdefg, and you have this and I'm comparing it, and it's all commoditized. When you try to play the game of being outsmarting, being commoditized, you're never going to win. You're just simply never going to win, especially the entrepreneur or the sole entrepreneur. And the secret is get ready for this, harry.

Harry Spaight [00:10:32]:

The secret ready.

Scott [00:10:34]:

The secret of life is okay, harry. Oh, wow. This is a little never mind. Hold on. The television show with harry. Understand the secret of life with Billy Crystal. And anyway, that's hold on the show. Oh, yeah, city slickers. City slickers. Harry, harry was talking to Billy Crystal and he goes in the show, Billy Crystal says, tell me the secret of life. And so Harry, tell me the secret. Anyway, it's a little side note there and everybody can remember that show.

Harry Spaight [00:11:07]:

Yes, thank you.

Scott [00:11:08]:

The secret is being unique and taking your product and packaging it and making it so unique that you can't even compare to anybody else because it's just so damn good. Right. And that's it. That's it.

Harry Spaight [00:11:28]:

That's a great secret. So how does someone who is in a commoditized business, like, for instance, there's a few people that will do headshot photography. And I recently had a headshot photographer on my podcast, and he really was talking about understanding the brand and the message and what the business is about before you would take a photograph of the person.

Scott [00:12:02]:

Yeah. I mean, that's his spin. Right. And if he can relay that to his client, like, wow, this person is really spending a lot of time to get to know us. And the seven other people that I talked to, they just didn't care. You care. And that's his spin. Which is great, or many other ideas, but turn it into an experience, a headshot experience. What does that include? Maybe it's a bunch of snacks and refreshments and a little mirror and get everybody kind of, like, in the mood. Maybe there's some music playing in the background so they're not thinking so much of the photographs. And you're creating this little experience where it was like, wow, people get to hang out and have a conversation and it just felt good. And the headshot only actually took two minutes and I was nervous all morning about it. Wow, this is pretty fun. So it's always been about the experience, and that's something you really can't compare because an experience can never be commoditized. Right? Yeah.

Harry Spaight [00:13:10]:

Well, it's so true. You think about the Uber experience, right. And how they generally just put the taxicab business almost out of business based on the experience.

Scott [00:13:25]:

Yes. So here's the question. Did the cab companies put themselves out of business because it was so terrible that it left an opportunity for somebody to come in there and take it over?

Harry Spaight [00:13:37]:

I'd say they took things for granted. Yes. Would be my answer on that one.

Scott [00:13:42]:

Yeah. Good example. They think they have the world covered and all of a sudden there's something else better. I mean, look at the US post Office.

Harry Spaight [00:13:55]:

Yes, exactly.

Scott [00:14:00]:

They didn't have bad X and Ups and the stamps just went up, I think, last week. Right. And they're going to go up and up and up. And they're not used to being commoditized. And they definitely are being commoditized.

Harry Spaight [00:14:13]:

Yeah. Such a good analogy. So, Scott, I like talking sales with you. There's a lot of commonality. One of the things we were talking about was years ago, when you started, before you did some work for the White House, I asked you about it and you said, Well, I made the call. And that's the thing that a lot of people don't want to do, is they don't want to make the call. So can you tell us a little bit about what that means, making the call?

Scott [00:14:47]:

Yeah. I never had this formal sales training. It just wasn't available to me. It's either you had it or you didn't. That's how I saw it. And you had to figure it out. You figure it out as you went. Either learned from it or you failed. It's pretty simple. And what I needed to do is get in contact with the people that I wanted to reach. And that was the plan though. Like, I knew exactly who I wanted to reach, which was corporate America. Very high end corporate events dealing with extremely high branded companies. It's just something I wanted. So when I was ready to call National Geographic, I simply just called. And you would say that I had a sales script already scripted. But in all reality, I actually was just speaking to what I could do, how I could help them, how they can do in a promotion. I mean, that's a sales script. But in my mind, it was so clear. And years after, a lot of people would ask me, how'd you get National Geographic or how'd you get HPO and how'd you get this company? I called them. Did you? Have you? No. And I said, believe it or not, when you play in that playground of the HBOS and National Geographics, the Microsoft, these really big clients and you're a photographer, this is just an example, but it happens to be my real life is that when you reach that level, that it's a level where most people don't get to. And I call it a 1%. And when you're in that level and nobody's actually reaching that high, there's actually not a lot of competition in that space because nobody's reaching for it. Everybody's reaching for the local Little Leagues or that sort of thing where actually I couldn't get I couldn't land my local Little League for photography jobs. Okay? But I could land Sports Illustrated.

Harry Spaight [00:17:09]:

Crazy. Yeah.

Scott [00:17:12]:

I was competing against a different game. It was a different game. My avatar, my person that I could serve and what I could find was that high end corporate event marketer person that I could add something really unique that nobody else had that got me the job. But there wasn't a lot of competition there in anything, in any business, any business out there. And I was just reading an article about this not that long ago, how very high end spaces, there's very little competition in something really big. I'm making things up here, right? Social media. There's a lot of people in the gurus of social media. Right. They're the influencers. Right. So the market takes over. We hear about the influences, so we feel like everybody is an influencer. The whole world is all influences. Right. But when you really kind of break it down, who are the top 1% that actually in that market space and what do they do different than everybody else? And what you'll find is they do they do something different than everybody else. But the amount of people in that space that do that different thing, make those hunter calls a day, do whatever it may be in that business is the competition is really low, right?

Harry Spaight [00:18:41]:

Yeah. So true. And it's interesting how you didn't really what is the word I'm looking for? You had very high standards, apparently, and you didn't talk yourself out of, well, I'm not big enough to go after HBO or National Geographic or the White House. Did you ever have any of these thoughts going through your minds, like imposter or not big enough or whatever the reasons are?

Scott [00:19:16]:

I didn't. I actually felt like I was already there when I was doing it.

Harry Spaight [00:19:20]:

Yeah.

Scott [00:19:22]:

There was times actually that I'd be at an event. I was actually at the White House, I remember very clearly, and I was walking around and I was with some different people that I knew outside that I saw I've seen on television and so forth and so on. And I go, I'm having like a little deja vu because I've actually feel like I've already been here before because it was actually so vivid what I was going to do and how I was going to do it that you actually didn't get nervous. Harry, it's kind of like a sports player. Take Tom Brady. I happen to be from Boston. Love him or hate him, I'm a.

Harry Spaight [00:20:05]:

Big fan, so it's a safe tree for you.

Scott [00:20:08]:

But take somebody like Tom Brady. Do you think he's actually nervous at the end of the game when there's 3 seconds left and he has to throw the football to win the game?

Harry Spaight [00:20:19]:

No, he's excited. Right.

Scott [00:20:22]:

He's not nervous at all. He's played that in his mind a million times. So when the time comes, it's not nervous. We're all nervous. Sitting on the couch at home, right?

Harry Spaight [00:20:36]:

Yeah.

Scott [00:20:37]:

How can he do that? Oh, my God, I couldn't look. But he lived it in his mind so many times and it's the same thing about it's, really. Mindset about having a good conversation with a call in the White House right. Is that I didn't I felt confident enough and that could be heard in a voice. So when you're that confident about selling anything, it works. But in order to do that, in my opinion, you need to sell yourself first. If you can't sell yourself, how are you going to sell anybody else?

Harry Spaight [00:21:23]:

Yeah, that's where all good selling starts, in my opinion. Is number one there. So let's talk about the storytelling. You said that you work with Donald Miller, but you've always been a storyteller. So was this part of the way you got business, was by telling the stories before you met Donald?

Scott [00:21:47]:

Milder I'd say, I like to believe so. And I did it unknowingly, honestly, because I would be with a client and they're like, hey, just common conversation. And I said, Well, I just got back from DC. And I did this event for the President I was just talking about I did last week. And it was a story, because I was explaining, you know, when I flew to DC. And I had to check my luggage, and I had a problem with the luggage, but I had press credentials. And I'm going to the story of why it's important to travel with my camera gear. And it was a story, but there was a storyline to it that followed it, and it was it was memorable, it had an outcome, and it just stuck with the people that I talked to. I've just been doing that my whole life, not knowingly.

Harry Spaight [00:22:52]:

Yeah, no, I could see that. You're that type of person where you can hold a conversation well, and you keep it interesting and entertaining, and so there is value in that. And so when you incorporate those traits in sales, you may not have a name for it until Donald Miller comes along and writes a book and called The Story Brand and go, oh, that's what I've been doing.

Scott [00:23:17]:

This is that what I've been doing. That kind of leads into how I help photographers, my business helping photographers, creative individuals and musicians. And when I have a conversation with somebody and we talk about their business, as you're speaking, I can actually see the story. And a lot of times they are stuck in a jar and they can't see the label from the outside. But for me, it's just so obvious, right? And sometimes when they don't want to, they don't agree with me. I get kind of annoyed because I'm not even selling them. I'm like, I want if we never talk again, we never, ever talk again. Just remember this. This is where you need to focus on, because I'm so passionate about it. It's like.

Harry Spaight [00:24:17]:

Right? Yeah. I mean, it's interesting how sometimes it's easier to pick up well, it's always I think it's easier to pick up the path for someone else and what they could be doing versus us being inside the jar as well and saying, Where do I go? What do I do next? I got all these things going on. What's next? And then it's obvious. When it's someone else, it's just clear as day, isn't it? It seems that way.

Scott [00:24:45]:

Anyway, I had that same epiphany, actually, not that long ago, because pre pandemic days, photography jobs and what I was doing was very abundant. Okay, we have the pandemic. Things change. When I kind of get on that story speaking of stories, I'm not a victim, but things changed, okay? Yeah. I'm not a victim again. Few surgeries. Broke my knees, broke my shoulders. Time went by. Not a victim yet. I'm not at all. Not at all. See? Not yet. I haven't been in my lifetime. Good. And somebody how do you make that pivot? How do you make that shift to the next thing? And somebody told me, he goes, well, why don't you just help photographers do what you've been doing? Like, what? What are you talking about? And he's talking to me, like, with like, I had, you know, three eyes. And he goes, what have you been doing the whole time? You've been coaching your team all around the country of culture stories, seeing things in being unique way, and that's how we built the company out. So just keep doing that. Just keep doing that.

Harry Spaight [00:26:17]:

Good stuff. So what are the two or three big challenges that photographers and creatives have about growing their business? Would you say?

Scott [00:26:35]:

It's all about them. They make it all about them. Yeah. I can understand. You're the creator, you're the artist, you're the position that's on Fan, you're the rock star. And we watch social media or TVs about this rock star. Right? It's all about this rock star. And that's how they got promoted. It's all about them and that rock star. And I believe psychologically, they put themselves on that comparison of an artist on the artist. On the rock star, I'm this, but in all reality, reality, nobody really cares.

Harry Spaight [00:27:21]:

That's funny.

Scott [00:27:23]:

Nobody cares.

Harry Spaight [00:27:25]:

True.

Scott [00:27:26]:

If I'm going to hire somebody for my wedding photography to do my wedding and I got the photograph hanging on the wall, am I going to say, man, good thing we hired Harry to take our photographs? Otherwise we wouldn't have that photograph on the wall? I'm telling you. Harry. Harry. Harry. Harry was a great photographer. Harry, Harry, Harry. No, it was about the wedding day and having memories of that great day.

Harry Spaight [00:27:51]:

Right?

Scott [00:27:52]:

And so they talk about themselves. That gets into the website, their brand, their website, and they always talk about me versus make it about the customer. It sounds so simple, but time and time again, I see it so often. Make it about your customer, what you can solve. Right?

Harry Spaight [00:28:20]:

Yeah.

Scott [00:28:20]:

We get to know your brand before we take one photo. Okay, that's great. Whatever it may be. But speak like the customer wants to hear of the problem that they have. Right? Very standard, basic, one on one sales. Right?

Harry Spaight [00:28:38]:

Right.

Scott [00:28:38]:

But sometimes we lose the vision of it, the big picture of what that really means, especially on a photographer or a solo entrepreneur. They see themselves as rock stars, but we need to change. We need to change that. That it's not about the photographer. I get it. But what do people want? Do they want to make money? How do they want to be famous? I think most people in this category probably want to make money, and if you want to be famous, that's cool. Go for it. But if you want to make money and continue doing what you're doing, you got to change the way we think in the creative space. This isn't everybody, of course.

Harry Spaight [00:29:27]:

Right.

Scott [00:29:28]:

But these are people that these happens to be the people I talk to that I can help and get just a different perspective. Right.

Harry Spaight [00:29:38]:

Yeah.

Scott [00:29:39]:

Because I'm not the competitor. It's not like another competitor photographer talking to you. I'm not their friend, really, because I don't really ask my friends for opinions. They're just not qualified.

Harry Spaight [00:29:53]:

Right.

Scott [00:29:55]:

They can give me an answer that I want to hear. That's the biggest thing. Right. It's not about you. It's not about you.

Harry Spaight [00:30:06]:

So in sales, you said, it's like Sales 101, and I said, yeah, but then the reality is pretty much everyone in sales except for very small, it's probably the 1%. But most people lead with product. They lead with themselves. It's out there for the people who are really good in sales. They're not doing that. Right. The selling superstars are typically leading with the other person, or they're playing a numbers game. They don't care about people, and they could be just go through quantity and get business that way, which is different than most people. So you have this challenge, then, where people I've got to believe creatives in the photography world are really skilled at what they do. They've gone through a lot of training, a lot of practice. They put in the hours. They feel like they're tremendous artists, and they just want to tell others that. But here you come along and say, dude, it's not so much about you. How does that go over?

Scott [00:31:27]:

I'm not that quick with it.

Harry Spaight [00:31:30]:

Yeah.

Scott [00:31:31]:

I'm not that quick with it. Right, right. I get it to the point where that they actually end up telling me that.

Harry Spaight [00:31:39]:

Yeah, okay.

Scott [00:31:41]:

And I believe a good coach, a good guide will do that.

Harry Spaight [00:31:44]:

Right.

Scott [00:31:45]:

So I make them discover that I may know the answer. We could do before, many weeks before, but as we go through and figure out the business and what they need to do, they'll actually tell me. And when that happens, I know I'm doing a good job.

Harry Spaight [00:32:05]:

Yeah.

Scott [00:32:06]:

It's magic, because you really can't tell somebody. That's not where the power is. Don't do this and do this and deal through that. The power is getting somebody to actually realize it and see it and believe it, and then they can make the shift.

Harry Spaight [00:32:30]:

Yeah. Sort of like the way you did with the picture on the wall, right. The wedding, the picture of the people married or whatever.

Scott [00:32:39]:

That was a story.

Harry Spaight [00:32:40]:

Yeah. Who's that about? Who's that about? Yeah.

Scott [00:32:47]:

So, yeah, typically, I don't tell them. You just dig in, ask more questions.

Harry Spaight [00:32:53]:

Right.

Scott [00:32:54]:

Keep digging. Right. Okay. What are you going to do with that? How about this? How about that? Now what? Why do they come back? Why do they use you? And you dig in. Right. And that's how we lead, and that's how we help people.

Harry Spaight [00:33:06]:

Yeah, exactly. And that's really what coaching is.

Scott [00:33:09]:

Right.

Harry Spaight [00:33:09]:

Mentoring is telling people what to do. But coaching is really you're drawing it out from within them, which is a completely different thing.

Scott [00:33:20]:

Yeah. I believe some people have it or they don't. I think the cold hold on the conversation here for the whole coaching world is really intriguing to me right now. It's almost like photography, right? Everybody's a photographer.

Harry Spaight [00:33:35]:

Right.

Scott [00:33:36]:

Everybody's a coach somehow.

Harry Spaight [00:33:37]:

Yes.

Scott [00:33:38]:

I don't know how that happened, but I believe if you've done the 10,000 hours, you probably have the life experience to kind of guide somebody through something. So I feel like it's only bragging. Right. Till after you do it. You can't brag about something when you haven't done it, right? Oh, you know what I'm going to do? Oh, and I'm going to do this. You know what else I'm going to do? Yeah, what else are you going to do?

Harry Spaight [00:34:16]:

Right. Should pull up a chair.

Scott [00:34:18]:

Yeah. Sit down. Let's talk about that. It's only bragging rights till after you do it.

Harry Spaight [00:34:26]:

Yeah. Good stuff. So scott story brand. Just going to ask on this. One of the things I like about the story brand is other than this whole thing about telling stories, stories on the website. I loved when I read that book about the hero's journey where that really opened up my eyes to kind of sort of what I was missing in sales was this hero's journey. Do you mind touching on that a little bit as to what that's contained?

Scott [00:35:06]:

Yeah, no, it's great. By the way, with Donald Miller, you can be a certified story brand guide as well as a certified business coach with Don Miller, which both so that you get this inside scoop of the concepts of building a simple business. And he promotes that because Don only has so much time right, right. That he produces a book, and he helps guides and coaches like myself, kind of like, guide us to here's what I've seen in the business world, solve problems. So there's a whole lesson to be learned besides just a story brand with that whole what I call culture. Right. Because it's a certain person that identifies it with it. But to answer your question, the hero's Journey, there's actually a formula to it. And when you fill out this form, this formula of different sections, and it's a questionnaire that asks the person questions, good questions get good answers. Right. And the first one is, what's the biggest thing that this person has? What's the problem they have? So what's the problem they have? Harry doesn't get out much, and so he doesn't see a lot of people, which is really unfortunate. Talk about the bad. But there's. A good part in the story. How can you help them? Fortunately, we have a great solution for a networking group that Harry can run and meet more people. Now that Harry's meeting more people, running his networking group, business has tripled in business. And other people want to follow Harry, where now he's now coaching a group of people, and those people are helping him come into his networking group. So there's segments to that story, what the problem is, what hurts, and how can you solve it and paint a brighter picture, right. Yeah. And then end with the hero. Harry's a hero. He's now helping people. He now has a group of people in his group.

Harry Spaight [00:37:58]:

Feels so good, scott such a nice way of teaching, just making it just feel, I don't know, genuine.

Scott [00:38:13]:

Right. And it's a story. And when you follow that framework listen, Don Miller didn't invent the story brand or a story. Our stories have been around since the days they wrote the Bible, right. You read the Bible, you read stories, and those stories stick to us that we remember. Right. And if you follow the Bible, it actually follows the same story exactly of a story. So what Don does do is he helps people to simplify it so you can understand it, which is the reason why I kind of created PHOTOGRAPHYBusiness Madesimple.com so we can photography make the business simple. Because, again, going into my story mode, it doesn't have to be complicated. You struggling, not making any money, wondering what you're going to do with all that camera gear that you purchased. If you only could meet somebody that could help you build your business, get more clients that will then make your family happy, your kids happy, your life happy, we can now live a life of something that you've always dreamed of. Wow. By the way, I did not script any of this.

Harry Spaight [00:39:49]:

All of you photographers out there, give this man a call. Great stuff.

Scott [00:39:56]:

Yeah. Nothing I said was everything we talked about was nothing about photography, how to take a photo, how to click it right. And anything in sales, I mean, the people that you deal with, Harry, it's not about the gear, right? Not about the stuff. No. But what do you see the biggest challenge for even in the sales industry, when you coach somebody because you're a business coach, helping people to sell with dignity, what do you see the most significant, I'll say, obstacle that these people have?

Harry Spaight [00:40:34]:

Well, today, a lot of people are just tuning out salespeople for lots of reasons. And so even the best of salespeople are being and people who do it really well are being ghosted, and people show interest and disappear, and you can ask for the next meeting and get a date, even. And if they don't show up, doesn't mean they're going to respond to the next email or the next phone call. So I feel that people and that's okay because that's really the world in which we live. We're bombarded and people kind of go down a path and they're not necessarily doing it to be mean and that they don't like the person. It's just that they get busy, they get distracted, and we just have to just continue to pursue, even though we might feel awkward at times, but being polite and staying in touch. And eventually they'll come around and typically they'll thank you. But most people give up long before that happens and say, well that person was a jerk, they disappeared, I did so much for them. And then they take it personally and that's never a good thing. What's your thought on that?

Scott [00:41:53]:

Yeah, then people give up and matter of fact that actually brings me and I understand that and you're absolutely 100% right. I've experienced the same thing and some of the coaching guiding I do is actually I'm a certified partner with Keep infusion software that helps people with automation. And how do you automate your sales process? By having an effective landing page with a message that is the hook that your customer wants to see. And what is so good about what is so good that I'm willing to give my email to you for?

Harry Spaight [00:42:31]:

Right?

Scott [00:42:32]:

Is it that awesome ebook that really does have great value, just not made up. And so then now you could continue with an email list to always stay on top of these people all automated because you're right, they're going to disappear and it's going to take more than one phone call. Yeah, and they might not be ready today but they might be ready next year.

Harry Spaight [00:42:54]:

Exactly. Got to play the long game.

Scott [00:42:57]:

Yeah, but you can't do it by yourself and you need other things and people and talk about AI. This is kind of AI on its own where you're kind of automating your automation to send out multiple emails to somebody that's in quiet which then goes down to selling on an email. Like how can you write these emails so it sounds like a story. I want to continue the next one. It's Netflix. Do I want to go to the next episode? Do I even want to watch that and waste my time? But can these emails be like, oh wow, we got another email from Scott. I really want to hear about the next story and do that for a year. You're guaranteed to have business. Guaranteed.

Harry Spaight [00:43:38]:

That's great. Scott, you're definitely a gem. You bring tons of value for those of our listeners who want more of Scott Proposki and his genius. Where can people find you, sir?

Scott [00:43:51]:

I made it simple again, it's Scottproposki.com. It's my first name and last name.

Harry Spaight [00:43:56]:

Scottproposki.Com and we will put that in the show notes and thank you so much for visiting us. Any final thoughts or something I missed here that you'd like to share with the audience?

Scott [00:44:09]:

No, I just appreciate what you're doing, Harry. I mean, more people need how to sell that dignity. And people have this image of salespeople that selling snake oil, right? You're actually selling somebody something because they actually want it. And you can actually help their lives with this product that you're selling. Salespeople aren't sleazy. They're actually there to help you on something that you actually need. You exactly keep it up.

Harry Spaight [00:44:36]:

Yeah, we'll do. You too, sir. Great stuff.