The Power of Podcasting With Alex Sanfilippo

[00:00:00] Alex: I'm like, wow, these people actually do care, not just about me bringing on these high level experts.

[00:00:04] Alex: And I was hiding with some imposter syndrome behind them. Right. I got good at interviewing them. But people actually wanted to hear my journey, just like people that wanted me to teach them podcasting as well, or use our software and services. And I just, I didn't realize that, but I think that that was a really huge moment for me to realize that, you know what, people are actually interested in me as well.

[00:00:22] Are you looking to improve your sales skills without compromising your values? Welcome to Sales Made Easy, a podcast for business and personal growth. Join Harry Spate, author of Selling With Dignity, your Formula for Life-Changing Sales Results as he hosts sales experts and business owners who share their journeys of personal growth and business success without resorting to pushy sales tactics.

[00:00:49] Now, here's your host, Harry

[00:00:51] Harry: hey everyone, what is a good word? So today with me and with you is the one and only Alex Sanfilippo. If you don't know Alex, he [00:01:00] brings a lot of energy and he is the host of Podcasting Made Simple. Hmm. I like the name and the founder of Pod pros.com. A software company specifically focused on creating solutions that serve independent podcast hosts and guests.

[00:01:14] Harry: And since we're podcasting, I thought Alex would be an outstanding guest to join me. So Alex, welcome to the Sales Made Easy podcast. What's the good word?

[00:01:24] Alex: Harry, thank you so much for having me. By the way, love the name of your podcast. I mean, I can see how we're in line, and when you and I talked months ago, we had a conversation.

[00:01:31] Alex: I was like, you know what? I think as soon as like we were wrapping up, I'm like, I, I like you, like, like we're fine. Not just with our podcast titles, but also with the way that we kind of view things like sales marketing, and I've, I've been able to learn a lot from you as a listener of your podcast ever since that point.

[00:01:45] Alex: So honored to be here. Really excited. Oh,

[00:01:48] Harry: I appreciate that. And so the check is in the mail, Alex. So thank you. All compliments. We'll get a $5 check. Don't cash till Friday, right? Yeah. Two, don't cash it until Friday. [00:02:00] Sounds sounds funny, but anyway, so today we are gonna talk about first of all, I want to get your background a little bit.

[00:02:06] Harry: Then we're gonna chat a little bit about which is a challenge, many entrepreneurs and solopreneurs, people just starting out. Is, how much do I charge for my services? And I'm sure you have some funny stories and I can't wait to hear those, but give us a little bit about your background. How long have you been on the entrepreneurial journey and what is it you really do, Alex?

[00:02:27] Alex: Yeah, sure. Podcasting. A lot of people are like, what, what is that? Like, what do you, you have a, you have a show, is that it? There's more to that, but I'll get to that. I actually did 15 years in big corporate and a large portion that was actually in sales. It went from sales to sales management. And discovered during that time.

[00:02:42] Alex: As a side note, that just cuz you're a good salesperson doesn't mean you're a good sales manager. So side note, bonus for everybody there. Harry, you're, you're holding back laughing right now, cuz. Yeah, you've heard that before. Anyway, so yeah, I, I worked in big corporate and at some point just kind of got that entrepreneurial bug and when I did, I decided to, to make the shift and to do that because I had [00:03:00] such a long background in big corporate, I started a podcast, get this, I thought this was.

[00:03:04] Alex: Clever of me, if I can say that about myself. I'm trying to be humble here, but I, I started a podcast to talk to people who had successfully left a nine to five job to pursue entrepreneurship full-time to figure out how they did it. And I was like, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna do this, I don't really wanna pay for coaching, so I get free coaching this way, but also I can share it and maybe build a little bit of an audience along the way.

[00:03:21] Alex: Right. And so that's exactly what I did. And obviously I, I'm simplifying that quite a bit. Like there was some ups and downs with that, figuring out how I would do that, right? There was a lot of work that went into it, but I realized two things during that time. One, how to be an entrepreneur and. That I wanted to be in podcasting.

[00:03:38] Alex: I love the podcasting space. Again, coming from big corporate, I was in an industry that was very cutthroat, very competitive. Even the person that chair next to you, you, they were kind of your friend, but also kind of your competitor. And when I got into podcasting, I just realized it's like abundance mindset.

[00:03:52] Alex: Everywhere you look like. Everyone was just so kind, helpful, and I was like, I love this space. So I made a point to get into podcasting as [00:04:00] my entrepreneurial venture and since that time that's all I do is just podcasting and, and Harry, I could, I don't want to like overshare on everything that I do and stuff like that.

[00:04:08] Alex: So if there's a direction I wanted to go, I'll pass it back over to you.

[00:04:11] Harry: No, this is awesome. And I totally agree with everything you said so far about being in the corporate sales. It's a sales management to the competition of the people right next to you in the next cubicle over the next chair over. I mean, yeah, you're totally making me smile here with all the what I can relate to.

[00:04:31] Harry: So you mentioned as well about podcasting as far as just being in a space where there's an abundance mindset of abundance, and I couldn't agree with you more. Definitely been a huge impact in my life. So how would you say, other than getting the free coaching, how has podcast changed podcasting changed you, Alex?

[00:04:51] Alex: Yeah, so again, wanting to, to decide, I want to jump into it. I just realized that. The world didn't have to be so fast all the time. The other thing about [00:05:00] podcasting I love is although for we wanna get our show out on time and stuff like that, and that is important for, to show a level of excellence, but there's nothing that's like life threatening or anything like that in podcasting, right?

[00:05:09] Alex: Like it can happen at a slower pace. So I realized immediately I was like, wow, I love that. It's a little bit more chill, right? Like it's not so like now, now, now. Yesterday. Yesterday, yesterday, right? It's like, hey, we've got some time on this. And like I said, collaborative, so many people reaching out to me saying, Hey, let me, lemme promote your show.

[00:05:24] Alex: It's brand. Let me help you get out there. Let me help you get a better microphone. Right? Like all these different things that people were kind of helping and serving with. It just opened my eyes to a different world, and I was, I, I knew I wanted to be in it. I felt welcomed and invited in. And so for me, I just, the way I did that is I just started sharing my podcast and then also speaking at podcasting conferences about what I had learned.

[00:05:44] Alex: And I, I just, I've always been a really trans. Person when it comes to sharing like my progress, I don't act like I have millions of downloads on my show or this massive audience. No. I just said, Hey, in the last two months, here's what I learned. I hope it helps somebody else. And that's again, that's kind [00:06:00] of what, and people welcomed that advice in the podcasting space and we're like, who is this guy?

[00:06:03] Alex: He's not a celebrity. No. People learned from it and applied it and they were able to like get the help they need another time. Maybe they're the ones helping me up. And again, I just really love that about it and that's what made me build softwares in the space cuz it, it just became so interesting to me that I wanted to really help and.

[00:06:17] Alex: Yeah.

[00:06:17] Harry: Fantastic. So what was like something that you learned about podcasting that you just didn't really have much a clue on before you

[00:06:25] Alex: started? Oh man. How do I pick one? Harry, this show may, you know, here it is, the the, the listenership. What I, what I really learned is the listenership might initially find your show because of a guest.

[00:06:38] Alex: But they will stay because of the host. So listeners come for a guest, but stay for the host. And what I learned in that moment isn't just, okay, cool. They're all hanging out with me. Lemme keep on getting 'em great guests. No, it's sometimes they actually wanted to hear from me and it took me 100 episodes to get the, the self-confidence to have an episode.

[00:06:56] Alex: I'm just gonna say about me, right? Like it was me sharing and there was no guest on it. [00:07:00] And up till that point that. 10 x, at least more people reached about that show than any other, and I had a fairly large audience at that point, which I'm thankful for, but I just realized, I'm like, wow, these people actually do care, not just about me bringing on these high level experts.

[00:07:15] Alex: And I was hiding with some imposter syndrome behind them. Right. I got good at interviewing them. But people actually wanted to hear my journey, just like people that wanted me to teach them podcasting as well, or use our softwares and services. And I just, I didn't realize that, but I think that that was a really huge moment for me to realize that, you know what, people are actually interested in me as well.

[00:07:32] Alex: And I've built that relationship with people. So that, that was a big one for me. Yeah.

[00:07:37] Harry: Great stuff. So who is podcast guesting for, would

[00:07:42] Alex: you. Yeah. Podcast guesting is for anybody who is wanting to get the word out there about what they do, or they're wanting to build no, like, and trust with an audience that isn't their own.

[00:07:53] Alex: I, I find that to be the biggest, the biggest reason people are getting on podcasts. So it's like, first to raise awareness what you're doing, but build that no, like, and [00:08:00] trust with who you are, the brand that you serve, or the brand that you are. And that, that's it. And at the end of the day, the best mindset I find that the, the best podcast guests have are the ones that are there to share in a way that adds value to one person who's listening to show up to serve, not to try to sell, right?

[00:08:14] Alex: Mm-hmm. To show up, to actually serve somebody who's gonna be on the receiving end of the, the podcast, and then of course, doing so in a way that, that brings awareness once again, and, and drives people their direction, develops that, no, I can trust that combination is who guesting is.

[00:08:28] Harry: Excellent. Would you say that someone needs to be an author, they need to be a podcast host to be guesting, or can they just be a regular.

[00:08:36] Harry: Everyday person that has neither at

[00:08:38] Alex: this point. Yeah, that's, it's here, that's a really good question. I, I'll answer it in two ways. Number one, podcasts, hosts make the best podcast guests cuz they typically get it when it comes to like, understanding. You should have a quiet room. They understand how to present themselves.

[00:08:52] Alex: Not always the case, but usually so they make really good guests. But two, you mentioned authors, they also make good guests. If you're for me as a host, The [00:09:00] easiest person to interview is an author because I, I have a guide for what they want to talk about, and I can really direct them very strategically through the points I want if I read the book beforehand.

[00:09:09] Alex: Now. Now, with that said, some of my favorite conversations have been with non authors, people that don't have any of these things that are just sharing from a place of passion or sharing their authentic journey. And, and that can be such a beautiful thing and really a lot of people. They get into being the host, they immediately think, okay, how do I get like that really big podcast for my show?

[00:09:27] Alex: So they'll share it. Or how do I get this, like this New York Times bestselling author on my show so that they'll share it and it'll make me look really big and good? Right? Most of the large podcasters out there will tell you their most successful episodes are with people that you have never heard of because they showed up and shared in such an authentic way and they don't get the opportunity to do it a lot that everyone just wanted to share.

[00:09:46] Alex: Cause it's like, oh my gosh, this person is going through what I'm going through and they're sharing it. And so there's really no. There's no right or wrong answer there. Just depends on what you're looking for.

[00:09:54] Harry: Hmm. Yeah. So how would you say then a person should, could go [00:10:00] about becoming a guest? I mean, there's so many people that want to get their message out, and maybe they're, you know, They've got their blogging going on and maybe, you know their right, nice posts on LinkedIn, but they're just waiting for an invitation by someone to come join them on a podcast.

[00:10:17] Harry: Does it really work that way?

[00:10:20] Alex: At, at one point it did. Podcasting has shifted a lot. We're actually finding that to be a podcast guest now requires outreach on your part and the, the culture is shifting. That's because there's more people trying to be. Than are hosting podcasts. So hosts have, they can wait or they're, they're going after someone really specific.

[00:10:36] Alex: So you need to be reaching out. So I always tell people, Hey, be proactive. You get out of it what you put into it. So I, I, I always tell people, find the host that you want to be on their shows and go after it. Now, before you do that, I think it's really important to reconsider your, your reason for it, your why, and then once you like, revisit the y okay, like I wanna get on there to raise awareness for my brand.

[00:10:54] Alex: Figure out the angle you want to take and then figure out the person you serve, which in podcasts we call that our avatar or our deal [00:11:00] listener. Mm-hmm. So make up a fictitious character. You say, this is who I'm going to show up to serve. And then don't go after all podcasts because they're not all created equal for you to be on.

[00:11:09] Alex: But they're all, they might all be important, but you gotta find the ones that you know that you are fake avatar Right. Is potentially listening to. So just go on the right shows. I'll tell you. For me, I've learned it's better for me to go on 12 shows a year that are the right shows versus 52, so I'm talking one a month versus one a week if I can just get on the right 12.

[00:11:28] Alex: And the, the clue there is they're, they're actually not at all the biggest ones. They're the ones that are most well aligned, no matter how big or small the audience is. And so to me, again, figure out your why. Figure out your avatar, figure out the the niche you want to get into, and then start doing some outreach to host.

[00:11:43] Alex: And that's how you can start getting on on podcast.

[00:11:46] Harry: Wow, that's such great advice. Yeah, you're, you're making so many excellent points here. So you're telling me there's a big thing I've heard this once or twice in my life about quality [00:12:00] over quantity.

[00:12:02] Alex: Yeah. So talk to me about new perspective there, isn't it?

[00:12:05] Alex: I've never heard that one. Shocking.

[00:12:07] Harry: Yeah. So, yeah, I, I totally get you. So, but you know, on the other hand, I'm just gonna throw this out though. If someone's guesting isn't like every audience, potentially one listener out there that might say, oh, that so rings true with me. Or, what's your thought on that?

[00:12:25] Alex: Yeah, I mean it really is that that is true. That is the case. And I know some people that they go more that model. It depends on what you have time for. Mm-hmm. Because I find a lot of people who go that direction if they've not built this in through like a system in their business that, hey, Tuesday, I've got four hours open to put as many podcasts in as I can.

[00:12:42] Alex: Right. For two hours. Right. And some people do that really well, but for most of us, I find we just get burned out and we get burned out cause we're jumping on the wrong shows and not hearing back. An example, like I talk about podcasting. That's pretty much all I talk about. I live in Jacksonville, Florida, right next to the beach.

[00:12:56] Alex: I, I could technically get on a surfing podcast, but [00:13:00] what that does not serve where I'm going. Right. If it's something for fun, I'm not gonna get burned out by it. I might do it, but in general, it's just better to stay. In your lane and, and because it's what you know as well, so I, I think that yes, anybody could be listening that you could really add value to, but go where you believe there are those people, right.

[00:13:17] Alex: Where you just know, you know what the, the majority of people listening to this are a handful of them. I'm going to be able to serve really well and I, I fully subscribe to the, the, the quality over quantity model. I just think it's a better use of all of our time and the direction that we.

[00:13:31] Harry: Yeah. And I think it's true with how much energy you bring too.

[00:13:34] Harry: It's yeah. Yeah. You know, you, you, you've probably been on maybe one or two podcasts that you know. I'm not just, the energy wasn't there, let's just put it that way. Right? Yeah. Right. Let's, let's stop at that.

[00:13:48] Alex: You've been very nice right now. This awkward a good podcast.

[00:13:52] Harry: I'm just hoping it's not what you're saying about this one, so Not at all.

[00:13:55] Harry: Not at all. Alright, so this is, this is all fantastic stuff, so [00:14:00] we. People can really look to you then. So just how are you serving people then today other than providing this outstanding free podcasting advice? If someone were to hire you, what would they be hiring you

[00:14:13] Alex: for? Alex? Yeah, so I actually run a series of, of podcasting related softwares and, and I'll, I'll quickly dive into them cuz that's not really what this is about today.

[00:14:22] Alex: But first off, it is kind of, sort of, yeah, kind of, sort of, you know, and like, here's the thing. Like I, I, I love this podcast, so I wanna make sure that that I'm welcomed back, at least as a listener. I wanna hear this later and be like, man, there's this Alex Guy pitching all his products again. So I, I have three softwares that serve podcasters and the one that.

[00:14:40] Alex: I'll share about the most. I'll, I'll share at the end, cause I think it would actually really benefit this audience. We put one called Pod Lottery, which is just a fun way for podcast hosts to do review swaps in authentic. Way that actually is based on integrity and it's, it's all backed by Apple and stuff like that.

[00:14:54] Alex: So it's a really fun one. And we developed another one called Podcasts, o p, which just stands for Standard Operating Procedures and helps podcasters keep their [00:15:00] episode production releases on time. I, another just organizational tool, but the, the main one in our flagship product. Our first one, the one that I think serves as audience is called Pod Match.

[00:15:08] Alex: It's a service that automatically connects podcast guests and podcast hosts together for interviews. It literally works just like a dating app, but instead of connecting you for dates, it connects you for podcast interviews. So if you're somebody who's saying, you know what? I wanna talk about how to develop a physical product, I wanna be a guest on podcast to talk about that.

[00:15:24] Alex: You join pod matches that person with that expertise. It'll go look around, are there any hosts looking for someone of that expertise? And it'll match the two of you together. You can message in the platform. You never have to exchange an email if you don't want to. You can even schedule and everything like that.

[00:15:37] Alex: And we build that out just to serve both sides because there's so many people wanting to be on podcasts, but. There's host saying, Hey, I've got a specific direction and avatar that I serve that I need to find the right guest to be on to actually talk about that. And those are the things I've built out.

[00:15:51] Alex: And again, I'm fully in this podcasting thing and I love serving this way. And just kind of finding these, these little problems that people have and, and offering a simple solution for it.

[00:15:59] Harry: Yeah. [00:16:00] Fantastic. So thank goodness for the fact that podcasting became popular is to give people like you a whole new opportunity in a career.

[00:16:07] Harry: Right, right. In the business. So it's just, just fantastic. So Pod match is the place, if you're thinking about guesting on podcasts, and it also, does it match, is that, so how does it help

[00:16:21] Alex: host or does it host it's finding Yeah, it's fine. They're, they're guests, so they're on there looking for their guests.

[00:16:25] Alex: So it's connecting both sides of the platform. Yeah. Okay.

[00:16:29] Harry: Beautiful. All right, so, so those three services that you're offering, three software applications, whatever you wanna call 'em, they have a cost, you're not giving those away for free,

[00:16:41] Alex: correct? Right. Yes. Okay. Very insightful, by the way. Okay.

[00:16:45] Harry: Because you have to pay for your living expenses and your, you know, trips to or to the surf shop to buy the surfboard and whatever else it is that you do for fun.

[00:16:56] Harry: So how leaving the corporate [00:17:00] job, many people struggle with, how do I provide value and somehow ask for money along the way so I can make a living at this. Was there any struggle for you in that

[00:17:16] Alex: regard? Yeah, I mean, mostly mindset related. First off, I'm, I'm gonna share like how I came up with the ideas for each of these is I, I, I did what one of your guests talked about.

[00:17:25] Alex: You had Jenna Fisher on the podcast and Jennifer Fisher on the podcast, I think, I think maybe I said Jenna Fisher, which is someone from the office. Okay. In my head, sorry about like, who, who am I talking? I here. Jennifer Fisher. Jennifer, but that's okay. Yeah. All good. She talked about, I think the episode title was being authentic and conversational.

[00:17:42] Alex: And I encourage you, I wanna go back and listen to that cuz something she talked about is being curious and wanting to learn because it'll show you to your potential buyers. And I'm telling you what, like that's how I learned to, to be able to offer a service that people wanted. And so I, again, I encourage you as a listener of your podcast [00:18:00] sales, go back and find the being authentic and conversational with Jennifer Fisher.

[00:18:04] Alex: It's, it's really worth listening to. So anyway, when I. Doing this, this, like this actual process of like getting to talk to these people, really having like one-on-one conversations, figuring out what they're struggling with. That's where I got the idea for pod match. I just kept on talking to people and at first we did offer it for free cuz we wanted to actually prove the model.

[00:18:23] Alex: At this point I was still working the corporate job, so I was doing both simultaneously. And then as soon as we had enough conversations, as soon as we like shared transparently what our struggle was with it. We started charging and it just continued to grow. It actually grew even faster when we started charging for it.

[00:18:38] Alex: And so for me, what I sat down one day and did this was one of the scariest conversations in my life. And I, I don't know why, but maybe it's, cuz it's, that's a big move after 15 years at an organization, you have a lot of perks. So it's not just the paycheck, there's all these other little things.

[00:18:51] Alex: You're like, oh wow, that adds up to be quite a bit. But I sat down, I told my wife, I'm like, I think I need to leave my corporate job. And I didn't know what she'd say. I had no [00:19:00] idea. And she just looked at me for me and she goes, wow. And I was like nervous, and I'm not like a nervous guy, so I'm like, my hands are sweating.

[00:19:07] Alex: I'm like, yeah, I, I, I think I have to. And she goes For, for pod match. And I was like, yeah, I think it's time to do that. And she goes, well, you know what? I trust you completely. She goes, if that's what we need to do, we're gonna figure it out and we're gonna make it happen. And so thankful for that gave me the fire that I needed, right?

[00:19:22] Alex: Like I was ready to go after that. And so what we just did is we sat down, looked at Alicia and I, my wife, we looked at our bank account and said, okay, we've got this much money in savings. And based off the projection we're seeing with Pod Match specifically, here's how long it'll take us to. Be able to live cuz we did our budget, like we, our budget at a smaller level.

[00:19:39] Alex: So we, we did it all very strategically and basically said, cool, if we're not gonna turn this much profit for two years, we're going to be able to make it, or whatever it was. I don't know exactly what it was. Basically we did that math and then just went for it. And that was how I, I made that shift. And at the end of the day that the quote that I had to think back to is that, is, is that it takes courage and courage means being afraid than doing what [00:20:00] you have to do anyway.

[00:20:01] Alex: And at that point I went for it and, and I'll, I'll tell you. Never looked back after that point. I was nervous about, I was nervous about what I was charging people. That's like what kept me up at night if, if you will. But other than that, I felt like it was a really smooth transition after that. Oh, that's

[00:20:16] Harry: great.

[00:20:17] Harry: So you, you were nervous about what you were charging, in what sense? Were you feeling like it was done enough, it was too much? Or were people getting the value from you? So what was going through your mind?

[00:20:30] Alex: So interestingly enough, my last job, I was in the aerospace industry and like I mentioned, being in sales, I was selling aircraft parts.

[00:20:37] Alex: Your plane doesn't fly without parts. And if you needed the part and I had it, you were going to buy it. And so now in this, this thing where I'm like, you know what? You can technically find places to be a guest on podcast going through social media and sending messages, or there's a hundred other ways to do it on either side of the mic, right?

[00:20:53] Alex: Mm-hmm. So you don't actually need it. So my first thing I had to overcome, I'm like, why do people. Why? Like they don't have to buy [00:21:00] this, so like they're volunteering to buy it. And I couldn't get through that mindset of. What I was doing was it actually a service to people? Even though I was having these conversations, people were talking so highly about it.

[00:21:10] Alex: At the end of the day, I, I carried this wrong mindset from aerospace, which was, you know what, if I can fix this instead of buy it from you, I'm gonna do it. And that's just kinda the culture again, of that industry. So this one, I felt like it would carry the same thing. And it took me a long time to begin overcoming that.

[00:21:24] Alex: Cause I'm like, well, they could do it another way, but they're paying me. I hope it's delivering, knowing it was, but just keeping that mindset going. And that really messed me up for a. Yeah, it is

[00:21:34] Harry: so common. I speaking to so many solo and entrepreneurs in the podcasting, I mean, a lot of people started out charging what their hourly rate is, was at the job, right?

[00:21:46] Harry: They, they add a little bit to it, but they're, you can't live doing that because there's this thing called overhead and you know, you're not necessarily working 40 hours a week like you showed up at your job, you know? [00:22:00] Drove there, went into the office, and immediately you're getting paid for 40 hours, right?

[00:22:06] Harry: And with sick days. And it just, it's not easy to fill a week in the beginning, right? So you have to charge more and or, or otherwise Yeah. It's not gonna work out well. Yeah, right. Did you go through some of those challenges?

[00:22:24] Alex: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Like the first time I actually like was talking to someone on the phone and telling them it was gonna cost something was really tough for me.

[00:22:30] Alex: Mm-hmm. And

[00:22:32] Harry: but you're in sales. Isn't that funny? Right. Yeah. Right.

[00:22:35] Alex: Yeah, it was, I was selling my own thing for the first time, you know, like, I felt like, I mean, I built it, I did all of this, right? Like and at the end of the day, what actually made. Changed my mind was that it was actually, I can't remember who the conversation was with, and I really should have probably documented this well, but it was an individual who said, she's like, you made my life so much easier.

[00:22:55] Alex: I was really good at going through social media to find places to be a guest on podcast, but [00:23:00] you just simplified it for me and saved all this time. And I I thank you for that. Thank you for the value that you add to, to podcasting. And it was that, that's more or less what she said. I remember at that moment being like, you know, They're not paying me because they can't do it without me.

[00:23:12] Alex: They're paying me because I make it easier for them. And then that's when we've figured out that, you know what, we're charging like one third of what we should because of how valuable it was to their actual craft. And everyone, and real quick, we didn't like raise anyone's prices. Like we, we believe in grandfathering in right.

[00:23:28] Alex: We're like, thanks for being here. We're gonna jack up your prices now. No people are coming in. We actually raised our prices and the sign. Started happening even faster. Mm-hmm. Because people, they associated the value with the price of it and was so inexpensive that, first of all, this can't. And I, I don't necessarily fully believe in like, in pricing should be like the highest price or anything like that, but in our case, people couldn't believe at the lower price that it was actually gonna be valuable until we raised it.

[00:23:53] Alex: Mm-hmm. And, and we, we just found that you want the values there. And I've, I just have to say I've gotten so confident in that when people are like, Hey, this isn't working, like, you know, if it's not [00:24:00] working for you, no problem. We're gonna refund you cuz I can sleep really well knowing you want, the value is fully there and we deliver over and above and what people expect.

[00:24:07] Alex: And that just took me reps. To, to get that confidence, I guess.

[00:24:12] Harry: Yeah, exactly. And it does. I mean, it's like when you were, it's funny, but when you were selling air, air aerospace parts, they all had a price on them. So it's real easy to say it costs whatever, $20,000, whatever the number is, because it has a price to it when you have to put the price on it, right?

[00:24:34] Harry: You imagine looking at this piece of metal and saying, it can't be worth that much, right? Right. Exactly. No, no, no. How's $500 sound? Right? And it is like, no, no, no. It costs a lot more because of all the labor and all the, you know, engineering that went into that piece and so forth. But with us, We dec discredit or whatever the word is, we take away the value of what we put into [00:25:00] it, and thus we think, well, I've gotta be worth more than free.

[00:25:04] Harry: This has gotta help somebody. And then, you know, maybe what the top of the line is for someone in your space, but there's a number in between. And so when you throw out that first number, is that something that you fear that, or did you fear that it was gonna. You were settling on a number that you were gonna be stuck with that number, or did you already think I could always change it?

[00:25:28] Harry: I mean, what were you thinking?

[00:25:29] Alex: Yeah, unfortunately, I think that I, I was thinking, oh, I can just change this if it's too much. But I, I gave, I, I realized that was a bad mindset for me because I was giving myself an out. I was basically being like, if this doesn't work, I'll just lower the price. Mm-hmm. Hmm.

[00:25:42] Alex: But really, the, the proper process is what value does this bring to somebody's life? By me doing this and listen, time is more valuable than money. So if you're saving somebody hours of their. That that's worth something. And, and so for me, we've, we've found that we, like did the math and all this, it saves 90% of your time in podcasting if you're using [00:26:00] this software pod match specifically.

[00:26:02] Alex: And so I'm not charging them like, like, oh, this person's a, a senior executive, this company, we're gonna charge 'em $800 an hour to be on here. Right? Like, it's not like that. But basically came to the conclusion of like, you know what? It is worth this much because it's gonna save them a lot. It's worth more than that, but that's where we have to be.

[00:26:17] Alex: And so we actually even got rid. I shouldn't say got rid of, we never developed a way to do discounting on the software. Like we didn't, and in fact, I'm a paying customer of Pod Match, which is kind of funny. But people are like, oh, can you gimme a discount? And I'm like, there's no way for us to do that.

[00:26:31] Alex: And people are like, what? How much do you pay for it? I'm like, more than you pay for it, right? Like but the point once again is we, we just, we know the value that it's bringing and we just continuously grow in our confidence of that, which for me, I don't know how else to do with, then get a coach one work with someone like Harry, right?

[00:26:47] Alex: They can actually help you out or get the reps in, and those two things really help a lot. Yeah,

[00:26:53] Harry: absolutely. And they still help me. It's still, it's all about the reps. As you mentioned. You can't get good at something without porting in the reps. So, [00:27:00] yeah. Great stuff. So what advice would you have for someone that is relatively new solopreneur, starting out, going through the bootstrapping and they're struggling with, you know, how much to charge?

[00:27:12] Harry: What did you learn that you could pass on? Cuz you like to pass things on to people. Oh

[00:27:17] Alex: yeah, I do. And thank you for that opportunity. The first thing I'll mention. Is that it takes courage, right? So that, like I said earlier, be afraid, but be willing to do what you have to do anyway. That's the definition of courage.

[00:27:28] Alex: So go after it. But get on calls with people, especially at first, a lot of people in this digital world, we hide behind a screen. Mm-hmm. So we just want to email it. We don't wanna get on a call, but if you get on a call with somebody, you can find out what they're really thinking, cuz you can hear and see the emotion.

[00:27:44] Alex: And so for me, my biggest piece of advice, and this is how I grew in confidence, but also realized where we needed to. Was talking with literally hundreds of people and just finally getting the conference of being like, Hey, it's $54 a month, and you can see that. They'd be like, oh, okay, that makes sense.

[00:27:57] Alex: And based off seeing that, because if you're just [00:28:00] listening to this right now, you don't know like my body language, but my body language gentleman was like, oh, that's it. That's what my body language looked like, even though I didn't necessarily say that. And so in my head I can document that as, you know what, the last 50 people I've talked to all basically responded as if, oh, there's no big deal with that.

[00:28:13] Alex: That's fine. And not saying you wanna get people to like their absolute flex point. If they're saying that every single time, maybe they're devaluing it cuz it's not enough because of the the value that it's adding. But again, my I, I know I'm kind of rambling here a little bit, but the point is get on these one-on-one calls, have courage and go for it.

[00:28:30] Alex: Start putting a number out there and see how it sticks. There's probably some data driven approaches as well, and you can definitely look some of that up. But for me, nothing beats the human interaction as far as learning where you need to be with this sort of, Yeah, I still

[00:28:42] Harry: love it. I'm such a huge fan of that, is just have the conversations, the, you're stirring the pot, good things are happening and you're finding, you're doing your own market research, really.

[00:28:52] Harry: Right. And when people are telling you, it's like, is that all, it's like that is a signal ladies and gentlemen. Exactly. [00:29:00] You wanna do something with that? So they're not saying, is that all? So that's, that's a. So Alex any last thoughts? I mean, it's been a blast having you here. Love your energy. I love your insight.

[00:29:12] Harry: Any last thoughts you'd like to share with the

[00:29:13] Alex: audience? Yeah, the, the, the final thing that I'll share. Well, first off, Harry, I gotta say again, thank you for having me. Like, I'm a, I'm a fan of Sales Made Easy. I love the name of the show. The content has been incredible for me to learn from. So thank you.

[00:29:25] Alex: My kind of final thought here is along the ideas of making sales easy, if you will, right. And it's just to make sure that you focus on the process of it. Like it, it doesn't have to be over complicated. You don't have to go out and and like build out all these crazy models You can get there, but at first, especially if you're early on, just start having the conversations.

[00:29:44] Alex: Build it out in Excel. Think about how you're going to do this in a really simple way before you say, we need to invest in this software, that software, this, this. Just start with what you have and keep it as simple as you possibly can. And I, I think that that's some of the best advice that I've ever been given because you can start much faster and the [00:30:00] faster you start, the faster you can start working towards sales.

[00:30:03] Harry: Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Such great advice. And where can people find this superstar? Alex and Felipo, ladies and gentlemen, where are you, Alex?

[00:30:12] Alex: You want more? Everything I do is podcasting related, so keep that in mind. But if you go to pod pros.com/win. Pod pros.com/win. It'll give you five quick wins as a podcast guest or host or aspiring podcast guest or host that you can read in less than five minutes.

[00:30:28] Alex: And I don't, I don't need your email address or anything like that, but hey, if you're saying I wanna be a guest on podcast like Alex Doel, go read those five quick wins. And again, that's pod pros.com/wins. And Harry, thank you again. It's been an honor to be here with you today.

[00:30:40] Harry: Oh, it's been a blast, Alex.

[00:30:42] Harry: Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I really enjoyed it. So appreciate what you brought here with us today and we'll do it again. Some. So all the best to you soon. We'll see you soon. Sounds great.

[00:30:52] Alex: Thank you so much.