April 4, 2023

Unlocking the Secrets of Becoming an Effective Listener with Colin Smith AKA The Listener

Unlocking the Secrets of Becoming an Effective Listener with Colin Smith  AKA  The Listener

Harry and Colin Smith discuss the importance of listening and how it can improve relationships and sales. Colin suggested that most people believe they are above average listeners, but when asked if anyone had thanked them for listening in the last two weeks, most people's hands went down. Colin explained that hearing and listening are not the same thing. Listening requires focus, concentration, and understanding. He suggested that to become a better listener, one should practice being present, remove distractions, and avoid filling every silence with words. Harry agreed, and concluded that by listening effectively, one can build relationships, create trust, and increase sales.

This conversation is about the difference between hearing and listening. Hearing is unintentional and happens without us doing anything. Listening is intentional and active, and requires us to really focus on what is being said. To demonstrate this difference, the speaker uses a piece of music, asking people to just listen to it, then listen to the guitar and piano, then listen to the vocals, and finally to just relax and be with the music. When we listen to understand rather than just listen to reply, this opens up the conversation and we can pick up on subtle signals that can help us understand the other person better. For example, when talking about a competitor, we can pick up on whether they are really happy or unhappy with them. Listening with understanding can help us get a lot more out of conversations.


Colin shared a story about how his daughter's friends warmed up to him after he listened to them. He believes that when prospects explore their thinking, they will be more likely to listen to salespeople. The conversation then shifted to listening itself, with Colin suggesting that listening can create a feeling of safety. He referenced the work of Amy Edmondson, a Harvard professor, and Google's Project Aristotle which examined the success of their projects over the last two or three years. Listening is key in building trust and creating a safe space for people to open up.


The conversation focused on the importance of psychological safety in teams. It was mentioned that for effective teams, people must be able to speak up and share their ideas and feelings without fear of being belittled or bullied. The example of a sales manager and new salespeople was given to illustrate how having a safe space to share their thoughts is important. The salespeople may not feel confident enough to share their true thoughts and feelings, but with a safe environment, they can open up and be honest about their concerns. This can lead to better ideas being shared and ultimately more successful teams.

Timestamps

0:00:00

Conversation on the Power of Listening with Colin Smith

0:02:25

Heading: The Difference Between Hearing and Listening

0:04:51

Conversation on the Benefits of Listening and Providing a Place of Safety

0:07:13

"Creating Psychological Safety in Teams for Improved Performance"

0:08:49

Conversation on Creating a Safe Environment for Salespeople

0:11:04

"The Benefits of Active Listening in the Workplace"

0:16:22

"The Benefits of Listening in the Workplace: A Conversation with [Name]"

0:23:35

Conversation on Active Listening

0:25:26

"The Benefits of Being an Active Listener: A Conversation with Colin Smith"

0:30:15

Conversation Summary: Providing Value to Prospect Clients

0:33:03

Conversation on the Benefits of Listening in Business

0:34:57

Heading: The Power of Listening: A Conversation with Colin Smith on Strategic Listening in Business

0:38:14

Interview with Colin Smith: Unlocking the Power of Listening to Improve Relationships

Highlights

And I know that it's a good friend of mine who has little by little learned to listen to one of their friends more and more, and now that person is changing to become more interested in my friend because they've learned to listen. So they listened first, they listened always and always, and now that person feels heard enough to be able to listen to the other person. We're dying to be heard. It's a phrase I use a lot. We're dying to be heard.

When I guess on podcasts, people ask me what is the number one skill I recommend or encourage, I say it's listening. It always throws people off. That's an interesting one because you're thinking in sales, it's got to be that you're unstoppable, you're a go getter and so forth. But ultimately the people that are going to provide the best relationships for the business are the ones that trust the salespeople the most and will keep buying. And that's a rarity, I think.

It really is the three areas that I work with, which is, as a man said earlier, which is basically to get people to feel heard, help people to think better, and thirdly, to teach people how to listen. That's the three key areas. That's my primary focus. So that's why I specialize in this area. And what I found is that the connections I'm making enable me to come in and support those organizations who are doing much bigger programs, but they need somebody to come in and be the specialist in the listening space because as you say, it's unusual, it's rare.

So good. I love it. In sales, I frequently talk about providing value to your prospect client and especially if they're sitting on the fence, maybe they've had their proposal. They're on the 1 yd line in American football, if you will, ready to score, ready to bring it home and then they stall. And this is where I suggest to people, instead of asking for the paperwork a thousand times, why don't you find different ways to provide value? Like what are some ways we provide value for this person?

And then I went and read it and it was like oh my God, this is exactly where I'm the space I want to be in. And so I've done some training in that very space as well. So some of the things I've shared come directly from the idea of Time to think and some is from a whole range of other sources including one who's a hostage negotiator, international hostage negotiator, because he gets to the point where the customer goes yes, sorry, the hostage taker says yes you're right or you've got it.


Thank you for checking out the Sales Made Easy podcast brought to you by Selling With Dignity.

I'm your host Harry Spaight and bring to you some 25+ years of sales and sales leadership experience in the hyper-competitive arena of office technology sales. I will be chatting with business owners and sales leaders that share their insights about growing their businesses and topics that will be of value. I will sprinkle in a little humor where we can fit it in because life is too short not to have a few laughs along the way.

Look for me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/harryspaight/ and you can download a few chapters of Selling With Dignity here: https://sellingwithdignity.com/the-book/

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hey everyone. What's a good word? Are you ready to listen today? Because not only will you get a chance to listen to the podcast, but you're going to be listening to the one and only Colin, the listener Smith out of the uk. Colin is a person that truly enjoys listening skills. He's a specialist at listening, and he has a passion for changing the way the world listen.

[00:00:26] I know you're going to enjoy this podcast. Think about how we can apply it in our lives, in our business, because listening is going to help develop great relationships. Now let's listen into the podcast with Colin Smith.

[00:00:41] Are you looking to improve your sales skills without compromising your values? Welcome to Sales Made Easy, a podcast or Business and Personal Growth. Join Harry Spaight, author of Selling With Dignity, your Formula for Life-Changing Sales Results as he [00:01:00] hosts sales experts and business owners who share their journeys of personal growth and business success without resorting to pushy sales tactics.

[00:01:08] Now, here's your host, Harry

[00:01:12] Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-1: colin, welcome to the Sales Made Easy podcast. What is the good word my friend?

[00:01:18] Colin: The good word is listening.

[00:01:20] Colin: It's gotta be

[00:01:21] Harry: oh my goodness. I'm so excited. So I was just gonna sit here and listen, but that would be difficult. So the challenge with listening for a lot of us, Colin, We listen and then we feel like we need to speak as soon as someone finishes. So I think that's a challenge I see a lot.

[00:01:40] Harry: And why don't we start there as to why that may not be the best form of listening.

[00:01:47] Colin: Well, thanks Harry. I'm looking forward to to being here with you you are right in that we, I think most people believe that they are very good listeners. And if you did [00:02:00] that classic hands up, who thinks they're better than average listeners, most people would say yes.

[00:02:05] Colin: I also follow that with another question, which is, so when, keep your hands up. If in the last two weeks somebody has said to you, thank you for listen. Most people put their hands down and then they go, well, surely hearing and listening is the same thing, but it's not. So we hear. Without any intention to hear at all.

[00:02:31] Colin: So you and I deepen a conversation at a busy restaurant and somebody says, Hey Harry, you're gonna pick it up. I may not, but you will. Cuz it's about keeping you safe and you don't have to do anything. Whereas listening is intentional. It's active. I have to intend to listen. So that makes it very different.

[00:02:55] Colin: Oh, so it is different. So, so how do, how do I learn? So, right. [00:03:00] So I've been doing all the wrong things. I've been just hearing not listening. Yes. So what's the difference? And I do a very simple exercise using a piece of music. So only about 30 seconds long. Get them to just listen to it, which they do. Then listen the next time, listen to the guitar and the piano, which they do.

[00:03:20] Colin: Third time, listen to the vocals, and then the fourth time I say, just relax and just be with the music. Let it come through. You bask in the music and people accuse me of changing the music. It feels different. We, we are listening to it now, not hearing it. And when we do that in a sales environment, you start to pick up on all of the subtle energies that your prospect or client is sharing.

[00:03:54] Colin: So it might not be the words you are picking up, which you will, but it's also what are they [00:04:00] feeling about it when they talk about a competitor, what is the. The subtle differences in there that you are picking up. Actually, he's really not happy with his competition or he really is happy with his competition.

[00:04:13] Colin: I'm picking that up. And likewise, when we do get into that space of really listening to understand, rather than listening to reply I, they will tell us more. And in fact, somebody was saying to me today, When they He'd gone to an event and as part of the event, he went from table to table and he just talked to all of the the people in the r in on each of the tables and everyone, I think it was his daughter's friends.

[00:04:49] Colin: That's right. It was his daughter's friends. And she said, dad, you went down a storm with them and he went, what? He said, yeah, they, they [00:05:00] loved you and they trusted. All because he listened. They don't know much about him. Mm-hmm. They didn't find out. But the more he sat with them and listened to them, the more they opened up and shared more things.

[00:05:14] Colin: And in sales, what can happen is the prospect will lean across and say, I shouldn't really say this to you, but when it comes out and when they've explored all of their thinking, then they're more likely to listen to.

[00:05:32] Colin: Great

[00:05:32] Harry: stuff, Colin. So much to go on with this. So where do I start? First of all, I love music. I probably have never been a great listener of music. Maybe a hearer of music, but now I'm really challenging myself going forward to dive in a little bit deeper and see if I can separate the instruments.

[00:05:53] Harry: And then basket yes, music. It sounds beautiful. So [00:06:00] so one of the things that you mentioned in this is the feeling safe. Mm-hmm. , this is. I'm not sure where I've been all my life, but I've never really looked at listening and providing a place of safety. Right? I've always felt like trust is there, right?

[00:06:22] Harry: That you had to listen in order for people to understand you and feel that you could be trusted, but you bring up the word safe. What? Why do you bring up that word?

[00:06:37] Colin: So where, where this has come from for me is the work of Amy Edmonton and she's a Harvard professor. And she's written a lot on the subject of psychological safety.

[00:06:52] Colin: Google also did a report, which they call Project Aristotle, where they analyze the success of their projects [00:07:00] over the last two or three years, and the results. Were not what they were expecting. So in terms of their teams, they were expecting, you know, you've gotta have the right sort of people, the right balance, chemistry and all those sorts of things.

[00:07:13] Colin: But the number one thing that came through was psychological safety. The, the feeling that I can say I, well, the way I shorten it is to speak up or speak out so I can share what's really going on. For me, it's not about, not conflicting or anything like that because we still. There is still conflict in those, but it's the way it's handled.

[00:07:35] Colin: People aren't bullied, aren't belittled, aren't made to look small and to, to feel as though their words and their thinking is not valued. So the more we can create the safety, the more people will open up and therefore the more successful the the, the team will be. So for example, in a, in a sales environment, you often get the, the [00:08:00] sales manager who's been been around the block a lot, a number of times, should we say he's got the new people in and they try and tell him all.

[00:08:08] Colin: Reasons that he wants to hear for why they want this prospect on the list or not why they didn't win the business or not, and they never get to a place which is safe enough for them to say, this is what's really going on. And maybe it is simple as, I don't know enough about this selling. I'm not feeling confident enough when I go in, I talk too much.

[00:08:31] Colin: What can we do? How can I get around it, and vice versa. And, you know, you can get others to share their ideas with each other because it's safe to do so. I'm a, I'm okay to put my hand up to say, I don't know. When you get those going on, then it becomes a, a better place to be. And it's the same in personal relationships.

[00:08:51] Colin: If it's safe, I'll say what I'm feeling. And say what I'm thinking, knowing that it will be okay. We can, we can [00:09:00] work with it. That makes sense in the sales world for you. Yeah,

[00:09:06] Harry: it's beautiful. I mean, I can just think over the years as you're speaking. Of course. I was listening while you're speaking. All right.

[00:09:13] Harry: I just wanna make that very clear for our listeners, . But this, this idea, I'm just thinking back, it's like what are the things that I've said. Where someone didn't feel safe, right? I could have been in a situation where someone was struggling and they were afraid to tell me what was really going on, so they didn't feel safe.

[00:09:38] Harry: Yeah. And I was thinking it could be something related to a technique, style, whatever. And they could have been dealing with something completely different at home that they didn't wanna bring up you named. Right. Is that kind of what you're thinking?

[00:09:54] Colin: Exactly. Especially the, the bit about at home, because salespeople traditionally [00:10:00] are macho gungho.

[00:10:02] Colin: We are gonna get, we are winning all of this. And to hear about the fact that I've had a real bust up with my wife and it's upsetting me, that's not gonna go down well. But if it is a safer environ, Then you say, okay, let's see what we can, what can I do as in you to help support them because the, your results are governed by their success as a sales sales manager or sales director.

[00:10:30] Colin: Yeah.

[00:10:31] Harry: Love it. I was thinking of sometimes people will be telling you about their weekend and going on and. And you're looking at them and it's like, why are you speaking to me about all of this? And the answer is because I asked them how their weekend was without really expecting them to answer more than great.

[00:10:56] Harry: Ah, yes. Yeah. So you know, [00:11:00] some people are really starved. For this attention. Yes. And others, like, you know, when we're busy and in work mode, which I've said only about a million times to my wife, I'm in work mode right now. can't really listen. And I know I've done that on the job, but yet people are looking to us to kind of snap out of it right.

[00:11:25] Harry: And be a, a good listener at that moment. Is that accurate?

[00:11:30] Colin: Yes. We, we've got to a space where there is an expectation that just because you've, you've seen me like your wife's come to come into your office, that you are gonna be ready to listen to me now, and if it's safe for both sides, be this in the office or at home, then you can, right.

[00:11:56] Colin: Unless it's like burning urgent now. [00:12:00] Then could we make it 10 minutes? Hmm. And the deal is that you've got in 10 minutes, I'm gonna go down, I give you my full attention. We can do that with, do that with children, help some understand boundaries. We can do it with our, our partners. We can do it in the workplace.

[00:12:20] Colin: Love to talk to you. Very happy to. Unless it's Bernie Urgent and you need me now, give me half an hour and then I'll come and find you. And I. And that's the deal. You own it. Now you've gotta go and find them and you'll, you'll have that conversation and then you've got to demonstrate that you really are gonna listen to them.

[00:12:39] Colin: But you're absolutely right. The expectation is, it's a bit like email, isn't it? Back and forth. I've sent you an email and you've not responded. What? Why? Why have you not ? Yeah. And we perpetuate it. Yeah. So typically what happens, they come to see you, can you listen? And Oh, okay. And you are, you're in the middle of something.

[00:12:59] Colin: [00:13:00] So you are, you are. Now, you've lost that, but you still wanna go back to it. But you try and give them your attention, but it's not very good because you're a bit pissed off that they've, they've interrupted you

[00:13:11] Harry: actually. Yeah, so really the, it works on both sides is what you're saying, right? So say we will pick on me, I want to be a great listener.

[00:13:22] Harry: Someone comes into my office wherever, and they say, well, I've got this challenge, I've got this sales challenge. And so I drop what I'm doing, I listen, and then because I'm rushed, I don't really coach, I just give

[00:13:36] Colin: answers. Beautiful. Yes, exactly. And then so over the

[00:13:40] Harry: years I realized that I trained my salespeople to be using me as Google instead of figuring out on their own.

[00:13:49] Harry: I became the answer man. Yep. And said, go do this, but then I gotta get back to what I'm doing because this is the life I chose. But there's really a much better way of [00:14:00] handling that. It sounds like what you just.

[00:14:03] Colin: It. The situation in that one is let's say you've, you've done that break. You've got, look, I'm in the middle of something, let me come back to you.

[00:14:11] Colin: So you come back to them and say, okay, so what's, tell me what the problem is. And then the first thing you say is, okay, so I understand the problem now it's this, this, and then they go, yeah, that's exactly it. What do you think? Oh, Because if, if they come up with the answer, which they probably will, it's gonna be owned by them rather than them taking on your answer.

[00:14:39] Colin: Even though your answer may well be the same, but the fact they've thought it through means they'll take it off Equally, it could be they come up with a completely answer and you go, oh my goodness, that's better than I would've come up. And so they win. Often CEOs go into a board meeting and say, guys, girls, we got a problem.[00:15:00]

[00:15:00] Colin: Here's what I think is the solution. What do you think? Not many of them are gonna be saying something different, but if he says, we've got a problem, I've, I'm engaging all of you people because you are the bright people, the brains here. I really want to know what you think, and I'm gonna be asking each of you what you think.

[00:15:22] Colin: And I don't want you to just come up with the same answers, really think, because we've created a safe place for you to say what you think. And one by one they go round and they share what they think. And as a good c e o, if one of those answers that you decide is the the the one to choose, and it happened to be the one that you would've said, you don't need to own it.

[00:15:42] Colin: You go, Joe, we're going with your idea. I think it's the best all round. Let's go with it. And if it succeeds as it probably will let Joe have the accolades. You don't need them.

[00:15:55] Harry: That's so funny. I mean, there seems to be a, a [00:16:00] tendency where we want that approval and say, well, I was thinking the same thing.

[00:16:05] Harry: Yeah. Which really adds nothing, but that's where humility and losing the ego a little bit. Yes. Let the other person bask in the moment of glory, because that person probably doesn't get a lot enough of it anyway.

[00:16:22] Colin: Absolutely right. We don't get anything. We don't get enough of that. We don't get enough affirmation or, or appreciation for who you are.

[00:16:32] Colin: We get feedback ab about what I do, but nothing about what, how I am being, and we don't get heard enough. We don't get listened to enough.

[00:16:47] Harry: So it sounds like a lot of therapy could be going on in the workplace where you're looking at the whole person that's working with you and, and I say that [00:17:00] completely ingest, but right where we're trying to, you know, where we have a job, we have business to do.

[00:17:09] Harry: But yet we want to get through the day by helping others get through their day. Yeah. And right and kind of be a team thing. So this isn't, this isn't something where you just stop work altogether and say, let's go have a chat for an hour. Let's really get down into your problems and then provide some guidance.

[00:17:31] Harry: Is it?

[00:17:33] Colin: No, I think we. It, it depends, of course. All right. And so I think we are, what we are doing is we are coaching the whole person, and in order for you to coach the whole person, you need to understand the whole person. And in the course of the conversations that you have with them, over time, you're building up a much better picture of what they're really like.

[00:17:53] Colin: And therefore you can tailor as the, the, the manager or the director, how do I approach with [00:18:00] how do. Work with this person. It's gonna be different to this person, to this person, to this person. And yeah, some could say it's therapy, some, so it's counseling. I think it's just good coaching. Mm-hmm. , because I think that the role of the manager is to support the people above them.

[00:18:16] Colin: And I say above them, I mean the people that work for them. It's just, you know, because the, your salespeople, they're the ones that are interacting with the customer. People say, you know, the, the CEO says, our customer's the most important. When was the last time they saw a customer? Ones that really see the customers are the salespeople or the frontline people.

[00:18:37] Colin: How do we make them the most important and how do we listen to them for what, what they're seeing and hearing and feeling and sensing. Encourage that, that we might start getting the right sort of information. You know, I b m almost went down the tubes because they didn't hear, they weren't listening to what was coming back.

[00:18:56] Colin: Everything. Everyone was telling them what they thought they wanted to hear. [00:19:00] Kodak. You know, they were in the prime position to deal with the digital world for cameras. They didn't, they didn't want to hear it, and so many others have gone. I mean, it's, it's, it's a bit exaggeration. Agreed. But you know what I mean?

[00:19:14] Colin: We're not listening to what's really going on.

[00:19:19] Harry: Yeah. So you bring up sales. You've been, can you give us a little background about your sales history?

[00:19:26] Colin: Yeah. The, I mean, I, I spent about. 15 years in a sales role, both for a a software company, a services company, communications company, and a consultancy.

[00:19:40] Colin: And it was at a, a point after 10 years where I, looking back, I think I should have gone into customer service. But they made the role that I was in a customer service role, and then they made it a sales role. And from that moment for about 20 years, I was branded as [00:20:00] a salesperson. And I think the thinking I had was very different.

[00:20:06] Colin: Then it, I just wasn't fit for a, to be a top set. I was okay. But I wa I wasn't the your archetypal salesperson, but I've been on many sales courses and yeah. But the, the way I was successful towards the end of my sales part of it was that I learned to listen better to the clients. I know that now.

[00:20:29] Harry: Yeah. Well, because it's so rarely spoken about in sales. Yeah. Right. Knowing your presentation, knowing your product, knowing everything right, is always about speaking. And I don't know if it came from you, but I read somewhere or heard somebody say once that we're taught all our lives how to speak, but we're never taught really how to listen, and that is no true in

[00:20:53] Colin: sales.

[00:20:54] Colin: Yep. Absolutely. The, the presentation is revered, the speaker is revered. [00:21:00] Not the listener. And what do customers tell us more often that they want? I just wish the salesperson would listen to me. You know? What's that classic one, isn't it? So that you know, you've got the chance to meet the MD and you say to him something along the lines of, so tell me the top three things that keep you awake at night.

[00:21:21] Colin: Yeah, and you've asked the question, I mean, there's lots of different versions of it, but you've asked the question, how long typically will it be before the salesperson has interrupted the MD's thinking and taken the conversation somewhere else? , no, it's within 10 or 15, 20 seconds. But the set, the, the MD's gotta go, right, okay, if I'm gonna answer this properly, which are the problems that keep me awake at night?

[00:21:46] Colin: Right. Is that on that one? That one. That one, yep. And then which order, which my top three. But they don't give them that pleasure because it might be really useful for him to do that exercise because Yeah, [00:22:00] nobody's ever given him time to do it, , because they've interrupted him.

[00:22:06] Harry: That's right. That's so true.

[00:22:08] Harry: I, I was just thinking that some, some executives would look at a salesperson and say, why are you asking me those questions? They have nothing to do with your product. Right. And they've pigeonholed a salesperson. Yeah. Into a product person. And that's really not where most of us want to be in that space.

[00:22:26] Harry: Right? Yes. We wanna be consultative, which requires

[00:22:29] Colin: some listening. You wanna be a trusted business partner. Yeah. Yeah. So they, they tell you the problems that are going on and you go, okay, based on that, this is where our, we can help you best. But in order for you to be listened to, they need to have felt listened to first, I think.

[00:22:54] Harry: Yeah. Well, absolutely. Yeah. I would agree with you. [00:23:00] So just thinking throughout the day in, in the workforce, there's a lot of communication that's going back and forth. Is that, is that something that you feel like we should address or is that just normal everyday stuff that goes back and forth that doesn't really matter?

[00:23:22] Harry: I'm not sure if that question is clear, but it's just the incidental speaking, saying something, someone does it and they move on without anything.

[00:23:35] Colin: It's not the clearest of questions. No.

[00:23:37] Harry: Okay, great. Thank you, . Let's do it over.

[00:23:40] Colin: Do you wanna do it over? Yeah. Yes. Do that over. So

[00:23:43] Harry: what I'm, what I'm getting at is if someone wanted to be a better listen.

[00:23:49] Harry: We're not necessarily saying, this includes every little conversation that comes up during the day where there could be just some [00:24:00] task that's assigned, just some quick response, and we just move on and just get back to what we're doing versus having a really in-depth convers. Yeah,

[00:24:12] Colin: great question.

[00:24:14] Harry: The better than the

[00:24:14] Colin: first round.

[00:24:16] Colin: Yeah. Better than the first round. . The, what I would say is something I say a lot, which is it depends. So the, you, if, if all you ever did as a salesperson in the office or salespeople in the office is just sit and listen to each other, nothing's gonna get done, which isn't gonna help. So there it's almost getting a a sense of this need, this needs to be a more deeper conversation or done well.

[00:24:51] Colin: We come to that person with the, the question I'd really love it if we, so give you an example. A friend of mine who [00:25:00] I worked very closely with he came in one morning. He said, Colin, can you just listen to me for about 10 minutes? Because I need to articulate what I'm saying, what I'm thinking. And once I've said it, I can then process.

[00:25:16] Colin: And that's exactly what I did. I didn't say anything. He went on and on and on stopped. He said, great, I've got it. Thank you. And off he went. So there are times when we can be really clear about what we want from the other person. Could you gimme a quick answer on this? I've had a thought. Think through.

[00:25:36] Colin: I thought it through. I can't make the decision. It's gotta be this, this, or this. What do you think? Yep, we'll have that. But there are other times where we've got a little bit more time, we've got a little bit more leeway. They've, you can see that they're troubled, what's going on, and then you can have that conversation.

[00:25:55] Colin: So it is, it is depends. Yeah.

[00:25:58] Harry: I like the answer. [00:26:00] Yeah.

[00:26:01] Colin: Cause can't be otherwise. You never get anything

[00:26:04] Harry: done. Right. Right. And then you could pick up something too. Right? Where there a person you could tell by their face, you could tell by the tone of their response Yes. That you might catch up later at lunch or you know, on the ride home you're making a phone call or something like that.

[00:26:21] Colin: Yes. So there was an instance where I met up with a friend of mine for lunch and. At a, at a conference because later that day, he and I were gonna be working on an A workshop. If so, we were gonna facilitate a session at the end of the day in this conference. And I just literally, as I was arriving, I'd got a phone call from somebody else, which really upset me.

[00:26:46] Colin: And I said, I've got a real problem because I don't know what I, I, I'm struggling now because my head is somewhere. He said, do you wanna talk about it? And I said, yeah, that'd be great. So I'd shared what the [00:27:00] problem was and he said, would you like my thoughts on it? And I said, yeah, that'd be really valuable.

[00:27:05] Colin: He did. I said, got it. I think I know what to do now. Made a call, resolved the issue. Job done. Able to focus and concentrate. If I'd not been able to, if I wasn't feeling safe enough with this person, I wouldn't have said it. He would've been thinking. Colin's not right today. Is he? Are you off? And And they say, you all right Colin?

[00:27:26] Colin: I go, yes, yes. And you go, I knew it. I knew it. There was something, and so there would be this distance and therefore we wouldn't be able to work as well together. So it's those little things that make a big difference in a team. Yeah,

[00:27:44] Harry: absolutely. So can I ask. Where this desire to be a better listener came from with you?

[00:27:53] Harry: I mean, was there a aha moment somewhere in your life you said, you know what, I need to work on this, or was it a [00:28:00] gradual thing?

[00:28:02] Colin: I, looking back and I've, I've, that, that sort, sort of question has been asked to me of, of me before, and the sense is that it's a gift that I've had for a long. But because it's a gift of ours, our own, we don't notice it.

[00:28:20] Colin: And it was over lunch with someone and she said, you do realize you're a really good listener. And I went, what? And she said, yeah, you're a really good listener. And she said, I think there is something there that you could take forward. And so we, we looked at the idea of the listening coach, but the idea of the listening coach was to fix it.

[00:28:42] Colin: It felt like fixing. . And so we came up with the idea of the listener and it was like, ah, I like that. And that's where it started. And the next part of the journey was to find out from someone I had wrote to and said, look, this is what I'm thinking of doing in these [00:29:00] areas. He said, have you read Nancy Klein's Time to think.

[00:29:04] Colin: And then I went and read it and it was like, oh my God, this is exactly where I'm, the space I want to be in. And so I've done some training in that, that very space as well. So that's, so some of the things I've shared come directly from the idea of time to think. And some is from a whole range of other sources.

[00:29:24] Colin: Including one who's a hostage negotiator, international hostage negotiator, cuz he gets to the point where the customer goes, yes, sorry, the, the, the hostage taker says, yes, you are right or you've got it. Then you know that he understands that you understand him and then you can influence them. And the key, what I would say, just on the final piece on that, the intention that the salesperson has, or in his case, the host hostage negotiator, has to be good all of all the way [00:30:00] through, because if not the client or in this case, the hostage will see through it, you'll see through your, your, all the things you're saying are not because you mean it, but because you want to get something from me.

[00:30:15] Colin: End. Whereas if it's true that actually I'm genuinely doing this because I believe that what we offer will solve your needs, et cetera, et cetera, then they're, they're in a much better position when you've understood them to be influenced by where you take them next. No, so good.

[00:30:32] Harry: I, I, I love it. So the thank you.

[00:30:35] Harry: In sales, I frequently talk about providing value. To your prospect client, and especially if they're sitting on a fence, maybe they've had their proposal, they're, you know, on the one yard line in American football, if you will. Yeah. Ready to score, ready to bring it home, and then they [00:31:00] stall. And this is where I suggest to people, instead of asking for the paperwork a thousand times, why don't you find different ways to provide value?

[00:31:10] Harry: Like what are some ways we can provide value for this person? Because they'll understand that our touch is also a nudge. Without necessarily nudging them or without, you know, doing the stereotypical, are you ready to sign? Is it, can I pick up the paperwork? All these things that salespeople resort to, I said they'll get it just by us doing something that brings value to that.

[00:31:40] Harry: The, they're gonna connect the dots. Yeah. But as soon as we. Show that we want the order above all else, that's when they'll see through it. Sort of like the hostage? Yes. Right? Yes. A hostage folder says, okay, you played [00:32:00] me. You did pretty well, but now your two colors are there. So now I'm gonna ghost to even more.

[00:32:05] Harry: Whatever thoughts.

[00:32:08] Colin: I totally agree.

[00:32:10] Harry: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so I'm, I was going down the right path then on that. So yes,

[00:32:15] Colin: I, I think the, it, it kind of what's that phrase? Startles the horses, you know, it's you, you, you see the situation in relationships where people want to get somewhere or to get something.

[00:32:34] Colin: Ah, that's what it's about. Whereas in a sales situation, it might be that we don't get that reorder this meeting. Right? The next meeting it will come because we are, we are moving the customer along and we are doing the right things with them. And as you say, each time we add a little bit more value, a little bit more value, until they, they, they [00:33:00] come to you and they say, I've got the.

[00:33:03] Colin: You don't even need to ask it. I know it's, it's not quite as black and white as that, but it's, it's, it becomes much more, they want to give you the order rather than you asking for it. Right? Yeah. But again, but again, there are situations where sometimes the sale, the customer plays the game. to make you ask for it, but we know that.

[00:33:25] Harry: Yeah, that's true. And that's all part of you know, listening to different tones and so forth, that where you can pick up Yeah. This Right. So you mentioned the book that you suggest that I read, and I'm gonna have to list, could you say it one more time so I could make sure? There you go. Yeah.

[00:33:44] Harry: Okay. Time to. Beautiful. Very clear . Okay.

[00:33:50] Colin: Yeah. Perfect. And it's, it's listening to ignite the human mind. Yeah. So it genuinely is about encouraging the other person to think [00:34:00] better by the quality of my attention and my listening.

[00:34:05] Harry: Yeah, it's fantastic. So as far as what you are doing today, Colin, how is your business tied into listen?

[00:34:16] Colin: It, it really is the three areas that I work with, which is of, as I may have said earlier, which is about basically to get people to feel heard, help people to think better, and thirdly, to teach people how to listen. That's the three key areas. That's my primary focus, so that's why I specialize in this area.

[00:34:39] Colin: What I've found is that the connections I'm making enable me to come in and support those organizations who are doing much bigger programs, but they need somebody to come in and be the specialist in the listening space. because as you say, it's, it's unusual, it's rare. We, we spend more time on presentations than we [00:35:00] do on listening.

[00:35:01] Colin: And it's the, it's the number one thing. And in fact, Tom Peters, who you'll know as the, yeah, from way back, he's, he says that he would, if he was running an mba, the first six months would be strategic listening for everyone.

[00:35:17] Harry: Yeah. It's so funny when I'm, when I guessed on podcasts, people ask me, what is the number one skill I recommend or encourage?

[00:35:24] Harry: I say, it's listening, you know, and it always throws people off, you know? Yeah. It's like, well, that's, that's an interesting one, right? But yes. You know, cuz you're thinking in sales, it's gotta be, you know, that you're unstoppable, you know, you're a go-getter and so forth. But ultimately the people that are going to provide the best relationships for the business are the ones that trust the salespeople the most.

[00:35:52] Harry: And, you know, we'll keep buying. And that's, that's a rarity I. Yeah,

[00:35:57] Colin: you, you know, the selling business far better than me. [00:36:00] And you know, that's words of wisdom coming outta your mouth. For sure.

[00:36:04] Harry: Yeah. Well, thank you. This has been a real, real treat. I, I can't wait to get the book. I wanna be a better listener.

[00:36:12] Harry: I know that my relationships are better with it. And I just wanna ask one more question that just popped in my head was, what is a symptom that someone would have in business? A light bulb should go off and say, I need to contact this Colin Smith guy. I would

[00:36:31] Colin: say that probably the number one is my relationships are not working.

[00:36:40] Colin: Okay. And I know that there's a good friend of mine who has little by little learned to listen to one of their friends more and more. And now that person is changing to become more interested in my friend, [00:37:00] because they've learned to listen. So they listened first. They listened always and always.

[00:37:06] Colin: And now that person feels heard enough. To be able to listen to the other person. We're dying to be heard. It's a phrase I use a lot. We're dying to be heard. And just one, one brief story. Oprah, you know, she says she's probably interviewed thousands and thousands of people from prime, prime minister's, presidents prisoners, farmers, mothers, et cetera.

[00:37:33] Colin: And without fail, every one of them at the end of the interview leans. So Obama was one of them and says, did I do okay? Was that all right? Hmm. So here we got people who are at the top of their careers and they still want to be validated. So now she makes sure once she got that light bulb moment said, how do I set [00:38:00] out my, my intention is to validate each and every one of the people that I work with, and I have on my.

[00:38:07] Colin: We all need to be validated. Now you can see why I love this work. Yeah, we just had chills. It's just

[00:38:15] Harry: so, so awesome, . I love it. Thank you. Really great. Where can people find more of you? Colin? You're brilliant and I love the conversation. So if someone is struggling with the relationships and they, they could reach out to you, where can you be

[00:38:33] Colin: found?

[00:38:34] Colin: So the, my website is dexterity solutions. Code uk and that's D E X T E R I T Y Solutions, all one word. And the idea of dexterity was right hand. That was where that that came from. But I'm on LinkedIn. If you look on LinkedIn as the listener, you'll find me. And I'd be very, very glad to speak to anyone.

[00:38:59] Colin: [00:39:00] But I would add that when we talk about relationships, this isn't about counseling. . This is about helping you to learn to listen better, and it is, as our friend June talks about, it, is a superpower. Without question, you can, you can change someone without actually saying anything. All right. We

[00:39:23] Harry: could go on for all day on

[00:39:25] Colin: that one.

[00:39:28] Colin: Awesome. Thank

[00:39:28] Harry: you. More to come follow this guy. Ladies and gentlemen, Colin Smith, the listener on LinkedIn. Thank you June Chang for the introduction over the years, but this has been a blast and I am up for working on my listening game. Thanks to you, Colin. It's

[00:39:45] Colin: been a real treat. Yeah, thank you, Harry.

[00:39:48] Colin: Really enjoyed it. All right