A Modern Love Story With Widow...ish Author Melissa Gould

I'm Carrie Brett. And this is John at love. Today's guest is Melissa Gould whose husband tragically died unexpectedly at the age of 50 to help navigate the painful grieving process. She wrote the new best-selling memoir widow. Melissa has inspired others across the country to heal and manage heartache through speaking engagements and writing fetches. The New York times essay my husband died. And all I got was the sweatshirt. Melissa is also an acclaimed screenwriter for shows such as Beverly Hills 902 one Oh party of five, Lizzie McGuire and bill Nye, the science guy. She's also written several movies for NBC and the Disney channel. Melissa will inspire us by sharing her personal story of resilience, loss, and finding love again. When we come back, you won't want to miss it. So stay tuned, Melissa Gould.

I heard her incredible story of unimaginable loss when she lost her husband from Ms and the West Nile virus early on Melissa realized she did not fit the idea of widowhood. She didn't look like a widow. She was too young or act like a widow. She had found love again, but she felt like a widow, which is how she came up with the title widow wish and her inspiring memoir. Melissa took this traumatic experience of losing her husband and in one month became Amazon's editors pick and the category of the best biographies and memoirs. Melissa is an LA based award-winning screenwriter. And her essays on grief can be found in the New York times, the Los Angeles times the Washington post Buzzfeed and the Huffington post to name a few she's appeared in front of the camera on shows such as Rachel Ray access Hollywood and KTL A's morning show Melissa's latest essay on the stars who helped her journey through grief recently appeared in the Hollywood reporter and was just interviewed for Gabby Reese's podcast, which is a fabulous book. And it's an honor to welcome Melissa uncharted love today. Welcome Melissa. Thanks so much, Carrie. It's so nice to be here. It's great to have you. Memoirs are so unique to the reader and they really can get to know you and get this inside view of who you are as a person. And if you're someone like me after hearing all that you've gone through and how strong you are, I felt like I knew you and wanted to become your friend. I literally was like, I'll go walking around Clooney with you sometimes. But, but when I first heard about your book, I thought this woman is so perfect for my podcast. I had no idea if you would agree to come on shot at love, but I immediately started to listen to your book on audible because I was so drawn in by the title, as well as your story. Most people don't take their pain and put it into power. So I really admire you because I'm sure this book was wasn't easy to write and you write for the media. So how hard was it to write something so personal,

First of all, thank you for wanting to be my friend that that's so sweet. And the funny thing is I hear that all the time from people. And I just, I think that it's just so nice. So here's why it was difficult in some ways was because as you mentioned, you know, I've been a screenwriter and that's how I've made my living for most of my adult life is writing fiction basically. So it didn't really ever occur to me to write down my story and to share what I was going through personally, because it's just not what I did. But a friend, when I was deep in my grief and had lost my husband shortly thereafter, a friend had invited me to join her writing group. And I did as a way to sort of find my way back to myself. Um, but it was in that group that someone suggested that I start to share my story of this grief. I was experiencing, um, the loss that I had just suffered. And it really, it really struck me as like, why would I do that? Why in the world would I share something so personal? But I realized that once I started to write down my story, I couldn't stop. And it really turned out to be the most healing thing that I could have done is sharing my story. And, and you know, that was a few years ago and here I am now with my book and it's just been such a tremendous gift because my story seems to have really resonated with so many people, whether they've lost a spouse or their partner or not. I mean, we all deal with grief in some way in our lifetime. Obviously a death is the most profound, but you know, people have gone through divorce. People have lost their jobs, certainly with COVID. Now there are so much more grief in the world. And I'm just so glad that in sharing my story, it's given so many people something to relate to and also it's given them hope in a way, right?

It feels like. So when I think about that writing class, you know, you did something where you were just putting one, one foot in front of the other and you were trying to just keep your head above water. And I really felt that rage, when not dear friend said, you know, you've gone through all these experiences and you were like hurt and mad almost that like, you wouldn't even have thought to do that. But those stories are so important. I mean, I was a single parent for the majority for a long time. And I could really relate when you talked about, say, you know, fixing the fridge that was leaking and all these like jobs that you wouldn't normally do. Um, and you know, there's so many different pieces of the story that, that you can, the lots of people can connect with. It's really powerful. And it also resonates the, how you're like these personal stories are it they're everything. And I know myself when I finally kind of got over myself and was able to expose all the things that I went through. My whole world opened up with this podcast and I was able to connect with people all over the world and lead them to answers that I needed when I was navigating divorce and loss. So it is so powerful. I can't, like you said, I am your super fan. So,

Well, there is something about sharing our stories. That's really just about the human connection. And I think everybody needs that and craves that, you know, whether we know it or not, like that's what storytelling really is. It's sharing.

It's true. It's true. But I think about you as someone who writes for the media and how in some of, I mean, you, you tell it straight up and I think that's why people really, really like you and your book, because you're saying what everybody wants to say, but doesn't have like the guts to say about certain things that you had to navigate. And you said the process of writing this book was a divine download. How has this book, how has this book been a gift to you or to Joel?

Well, what I mean by that divine download is like, once I, like I said, like I began to write my story at first it was an essays. And then ultimately, I, I began writing this book, but once I got my book deal and actually like had a deadline and, you know, a publisher once that happened, I had nine months to write the book and it really was quite effortless. I have to say, you know, I have friends who are novelists and plenty of friends who are screenwriters and with every new project, you know, there's like a white board with tons of different, like color coordinated, you know, character arcs and this and that, and post-it notes everywhere. And literally, I just would like open my laptop, find a comfortable place to sit, and I would just write. And I guess it's also different when it's memoir and it is my story and it's a very personal story. And of course, you know, I certainly have notes and journals and things like that from the time that I was, you know, going through everything to sort of keep me on track, but it really just felt like I said, effortless in the writing of it. And obviously, you know, parts of my story and parts of the book were really difficult to write, especially a lot of the stuff in the hospital, but it just felt like it was meant to be. And I feel like it has been such a gift for me. Like that's the other thing I never saw coming and sharing my story is that it's really what has kept my husband alive and close to me and that's everything, you know, I didn't see that. And so in that way, I think he definitely had a hand and, and the ease with which this project came about and came to fruition, right?

The same thing happened for me. So I, I wrote a book. I haven't published it yet, but it came, I mean, I was writing a chapter a day and it was, it was bad. Cause my boyfriend was like, you've got to get into the studio. Like, what are you? You have to, you can't just forget about your photography business. And, and it wasn't like I had a choice and I, I was trying to explain that to him. And, and as a creative person, I just said, when I get these waves of intense creativity, you know, enough to stay with it and just like, stay with that energy because it doesn't happen all the time that something comes through you so effortlessly, like you said, it's a powerful book. It really is.

Thank you. Tell

Me about life with Joel or I know you were together a long time and you met him while you were a young and if you want, and you can touch upon that. Or if you want to just start about what happened in 2013, you tell me.

Yeah, well, no, I'm happy to share. You know, we, Joel and I met, we were both young. We worked at a record label together here in Los Angeles where we both lived and we were friends for a long time. You know, I, the minute I met him, I thought, Oh, I, I really liked him. And I thought he just was really cool. And I thought like one day I bought a marry. Somebody just like him. I never thought it would be him. You know, the time he was always off. And, um, it just didn't seem to be in the cards until it was, and that, you know, maybe four or five years after we met things, got romantic between us. And then we eventually got married and started a family and we have one daughter and we had a really nice life together. And I think that our marriage worked so well. And just our partnership as, as a husband and my wife as an, and as a mom and a dad, because we were friends for so long, we were friends for so many years before we got romantic. And I think that was a really solid foundation for us and our marriage. But Joel was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, um, several years into our marriage. And it was devastating when that happened, because Joel was a very active guy. He was really into sports. And, um, it was a big life change that because what Ms does is it affects your mobility. And so for such an active person, you know, he had to make life adjustments. So like he was no longer playing basketball. He took up yoga and that really saved him and kept him healthy for a long time. And of course he was on like a, a course of medication and treatment that, you know, a person goes on when they get those kinds of diagnosis. But we discovered was that long-term effectiveness of a lot of these drugs that give you for auto immune diseases. Like Ms stopped working after awhile and four years after his diagnosis, the original medication that Joel had been on really stopped being as effective. And it was during that time of 2013 that life just for Joel and for us as a family was getting worse. He really had difficulty walking. He had experienced a lot of brain fog, you know, where things just weren't making as much sense to him. And we were looking for a new medication that would help stave off the symptoms of Ms. Um, and it was during that time that unbeknownst to us, Joel got bitten by a mosquito. And a month later, we went to the hospital thinking he had the flu or either a reaction to the new Ms meds that he had started. But two days after we admitted him, he fell into a coma and the doctors had no idea what was making him so sick from the get go. They had suspected that it was a virus, um, but the tests kept coming back negative. But three weeks later when the official diagnosis came in as West Nile virus, which was, you know, back to that mosquito bite by then, the virus had completely wreaked havoc on Joel and his central nervous system. And it was a very scary time for those three weeks in the hospital. I kept waiting for the doctors to, even though he was getting worse and worse every day, I just kept thinking, well, once they know what this is, there'll be able to make him better. But that's when I really got schooled and viruses. And it's very similar in a way to, to COVID, which is just crazy that COVID has just really taken over the whole world in ways that are just so devastating. And, um, but people now are more familiar with viruses and virus speak way more than I was, um, seven years ago when Joel was in the hospital with West Nile. But, but you know, it really was the cause of his death and it's crazy and it's surreal and it's shocking. And every time I talk about it, it still seems so crazy that my husband died of a mosquito bite.

It's sad. It's so I felt for you in the hospital because you, you know, you, you loved your husband and you were such an advocate for him. And I can see a lot and a photograph of someone. And he has like the kindest eyes, honestly. And what a great husband and dad, he, he was, and I'm taking this from your book, but you know, you would sit there and be like, your doctors fixed him, make him better.

Right. Well, that's what I kept in. That's what was so crazy. And that was so surreal. And th and the doctors were, were rock stars, all of them, like they really were relentlessly trying to solve this mystery of what was making my husband so sick. But, you know, that's the thing with these viruses is there's no recourse, there's no antibiotics. There's no way to stop the trajectory of where these viruses go and how they end up. So, you know, now in hindsight, I know all of this, but at the time it was really, I was so frustrated, but the doctors were equally as frustrated as I was, because they just didn't know. Again, they assumed it was a virus, but there was nothing they could do to stop it. And they didn't know which virus. Right. You know, so it was just such craziness and such confusion. And it was a really a horrific time

I'm sure. And your brain, I couldn't catch up or your heart couldn't catch up to what they were telling you.

Yeah. Like it didn't make sense, I guess. Yeah. It's like, I knew intellectually. Okay. They think it's a virus, like, okay, they'll find out what it is to make him better. But a part of me knew like, no, we were in very deep waters there. Like there was, you know, it's like there were multiple things going on in my head, in my heart, you know, for a very long time,

But you are such an advocate for him and you put your feelings aside, which was amazing. I don't know how he did it. And I must've been so challenging, but yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't because once I realized, like I had, Joel had no voice and I really had to kind of be his voice and really question, like, what would y'all want, what would Joel do that really helps me in a lot of ways.

Right. And I liked, I liked how that doctor said, I dunno, you know, pulled you aside and said, was Joel a man of dignity and that, you know, now we're, we're here. You know, it's like must have been really, really hard. But I do feel like, I think you said something like, he w he would have said, Melissa, why did you wait so long? You know, it was like, you know, and I thought the story is just unbelievable. Um, and it is, it's like the story of love. And you had mentioned on some podcasts that, like, he had this, he had a full life, like he had this, he really did. And, and this book is just such a tribute to him and, um, keeps his legacy alive. And I think it's just such a gift. And you talk about the process of grief and how everyone handles things differently. And you hated how people would see you and think like poor Melissa. And you, would you disliked when people would say, how are you and my friend? I learned that from my friend, Mike Casey, who lost his wife and nine 11. And he taught me to never say, how are you? Cause he's like, I'm not well at all. You know, he said, but when you see someone who has had a tragic loss, just say, it's great to see you. And I thought that was something so valuable that he taught me, but why is it that most people don't know what to say?

Oh, well, because I think it's, I think loss and grief and death is such a scary thing for most people. And what I felt like being like a young widow out in the world is that people really did mean well, but they couldn't help. But project, because what happened to Joel was so bizarre. I think people were so struck by it. And so stunned. And even though we live here in Los Angeles, it's like a small town feel my neighborhood and people would see me. And I feel like I just became this projection for all of their own fears and their own concerns and their own words, however, irrational they were, because it seems so random what happened to Joel, then it could happen to anybody. So I feel like I became this sort of like projection for people. And so then when they would see me, they would start crying or, you know, say the wrong thing. But I just, I don't think they know. I mean, for me and I write this in widow, wish my memoir, just hearing, like, I'm thinking of you or I heard what happened. I'm so sorry. Like, that was enough. Like, I agree with your friends. Don't ask me how I am, because I'm not, I'm not well, and I'm not going to stay on there at trader Joe's. And explain that to you for two hours, you know, just, just, just offer your condolences for me. That wasn't enough. Everybody's different though. Some people might like that question. How are you? I, you know, for me that I didn't

I'm with you, people there's so much collective loss right now. And there is so much fear. I mean, you can just see it in people when you go out, they're just worried. We're going to take a short break. But when we come back, we're going to discuss how Melissa learned to live with grief, move forward and ended up falling in love with her daughter.

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With the author of the memoir. Winterish Melissa Gould. Melissa, can you talk about how you found comfort in watching the real Housewives and listening to Joel Osteen?[inaudible]

Yes, I can. It goes back to what I was saying. That grief is different for everyone. And I just kind of went with the things that brought me comfort, or I felt like were, were part of my healing arsenal, which I write about in the book. But like, you know, the, the real Housewives is such mindless entertainment. I was always a fan. I'm like a big Bravo TV fan, even when Joel was alive. But when he died, my brain capacity was so limited that like, I couldn't even read an article and like people magazine, like that was too strenuous for me, but what I can manage were like these little bite-size moments from like real Housewives. And that just was, it was just kind of left. My brain goes somewhere else, other than my grief. And then when it came to like, Joel O'Steen, that was like this, just this crazy discovery I made when I was sitting in my car, listening to satellite radio and his show came on one day and the announcer said something like, you know, stay tuned and Joel will be back with another spirit filled message or, you know, something like that. And I thought, Joel, Oh my God, it's my husband. He's coming to give me a message. And, you know, I was always looking for signs and I believe in that stuff. And when I heard this Joel was going to be right back, I thought it was going to be my Joel, but it ended up being Joel Osteen. I just felt compelled to keep listening because I really, you know, I'm, I'm like this nice Jewish girl from Los Angeles. And, you know, I don't know from evangelical preachers, but I liked the message because Joel Osteen's message to me was that of trusting in a higher power, whether that's God, the universe, whatever, but I needed that. Like I needed to hear that in my grief that like things were going to be okay. And to me, really, Joel is seen as just like a motivational speaker who uses, I guess, like God or Jesus as, as his medium, you know, but like for me, I didn't take it as that. I just took comfort where I could get it. And that came in the form of Jolo seeing the real Housewives, Iyanla, Vanzant. I started reading her books. Those are the things that really helped me and spoke to me again. That's like for me in my grief, everybody's different. There are plenty of books out there on grieving and they didn't speak to me, but these other things did. And so that's what I just kind of use to help myself get through the difficulty of my grieving process. I can

Understand that because when I had a loss of a long-term relationship, I couldn't stand the thoughts in my own head. I had to get out of my head. It was just such a painful place to be that if I could put on an audio, um, motivational book and Tony Robbins was someone or Wayne Dyer for me, and I could just listen to something positive. It took away the pain temporarily, right. It just gave you a break a little bit. And so I really resonated with that and I just thought it was so real and raw and random, definitely random, definitely random Joel Osteen and the real Housewives. Um, but that was your truth. And that's why the book is so great. Can you explain how confusing it was managing, you know, the different stages of grieving and then you find yourself having feelings for your daughters, hot guitar teacher.

I love to say that, um, you know, when, when Marco's kind of came around, it really was to help me with, you know, Joel was in the music industry. And so when I started getting rid of his things, which is also like a very difficult thing for anybody who's lost a spouse or a partner, but there was a time when it was really hard for me to have his things in the house as if he were coming home, you know? And, and so when I decided to get rid of it, I, I uncovered all of this stuff. We have that I completely forgot about like guitars and amplifiers and tambourines and microphones. And I had no idea what to do with it. And I was so overwhelmed by it. And I ran into Marcos who was Sophie's guitar teacher. Not that not recently, but he had been her guitar teacher maybe like a year earlier. And he offered like everybody was at the time, like, if you ever need anything, just let me know I'm here for you. And I took him up on it because I was like, Oh, he might know what to do with all of this music gear and stuff. And so I really had no idea that we would start dating. That was the furthest thing from my mind, but it registered like that. I thought he was attractive. I always did. And there was no secret, like everybody who kids took guitar lessons from him, how to crush it. Um, I love that, but slowly but surely, like he just, you know, I, we had a lot of stuff and he was helping me through it all. And then one day he, we had to go somewhere to like sell something and he asked me to lunch afterwards. And again, I wasn't thinking that this was a date I wasn't thinking. And I don't even think he was at the time. It was just like, we were out together. It was like lunchtime. It's like, you want to get a bite? And I was like, yeah, let's go do that. But it was strange to be so deep in my grief and also have feelings that I was like attracted to this person and Joel and Marcos knew each other. And I liked that Marcos would talk so easily about Joel where other people, like we were saying, like, didn't always know what to say to me. They'd be afraid to say Joel's name around me, but Marcos wasn't like that. He spoke about Joel very easily and openly. And I so appreciated that it was, so it was almost like striking of the difference of how comfortable he was versus how uncomfortable everybody else was. And I liked that. And then like one thing led to another and we started seeing each other and it was very bizarre, but he also totally accepted that I was in this place of grief, that I was a no mind frame to like really overthink anything about what was happening between us. And he was just very patient and very kind and very understanding. And it was really like another way that really helped me sort of sooth my grieving heart without any sort of expectation that this was going to be a relationship or anything like that. He just was sort of like part of my healing process, I guess,

Think that's normal. Like I think about all the people that are out dating right now and everyone's going through lots of stuff. There's a loss of a job. There's, you know, there's so many layers in today's world that people are trying to manage, but they're still lonely. They still want to have love. And I know myself, I was on Tinder for years, still grieving, but I, it was better for me to go out on a date than sit in my house, listening to, you know, Wayne Dyer or something. It was like, I had to have some kind of conversation. And I love the story in your book where, you know, he comes to P markers comes to pick you up and you're wearing a baseball hat. Like you could care less. Like you didn't think it was a date, you're just going into a guitar shop and then Marco asks you to lunch. And can you tell the story of how in your head you had made up the scenario that Marcos was a recovering alcoholic and, or he was like this[inaudible]

Well, yeah, I mean, we, we really were, we were and continue to be very different kinds of people. And, um, you know, it's, it's almost like we're on different sides of the Boulevard or different sides of the tracks or whatever that expression is, but, you know, he, he did, uh, he did at the time and continues to do a lot of work with homeless people and people who, um, rely on food subsidies. And he's just a real do gooder in addition to being like this fierce musician and this amazing guitar teacher, a lot of his time, like most of his time is spent doing work in the community and community outreach for people who really need help with housing, with food, et cetera. So he also lives very close to the neighborhood church where he did a tremendous amount of work. Like that's where a lot of his outreach was. And I just assumed that because of all of his do good or work. And because he did all of the stuff with the church, I thought maybe he was a recovering alcoholic and decided to give back and, you know, cause the people that I knew and the people that Joel and I were friends with and stuff like, yeah, they wrote checks or they would, they would feel good about like serving Thanksgiving meals to the homeless at a homeless shelter one day a year, or, you know, but Marcos like walked the walk. Like he did it, it was a huge part of his identity. And in addition to him being like the guitar teacher, everybody took their kids to, to learn guitar. He was also like the, the neighborhood do gooder and everybody knew him as that. So that's why I just kind of, I was so wrong and like who I thought he was and you know, you'll have to read the book to find out, but I just had a lot of assumptions about him, all of which were wrong.

Well, I think it was, you know, he ordered one thing I will say, like he ordered a drink and you thought he was like falling off the wagon. You're so nervous. You dry, you start drinking his drink and the stories like that are so human and so real. And when you're back out dating in your forties, it's a nightmare. No, you know, no matter how you get there, it's just such a hard thing to navigate. That's why I thought that was a good story for this show. But like you said, you've got to read the book and go buy it.

Well also carry like I wasn't at, like, I didn't know that we were on a date, you know, like that's, what's different. Like I wasn't actively looking. I was so in my grief, like I just kind of let it happen. And I think that that served me well in the long run, because if I did like overthink it the way I think overthink everything, we, we probably wouldn't have been in each other's lives.

Right. Well, I think it's, we're conditioned to give people this packaging and to say, okay, well, this is what this person is like. And he sings, you know, to children who are sick and he does all these things and he must be in some kind of program. And, but I don't, I mean, I think people make up storylines all the time. And I think people on the sidelines too, you had mentioned before that you and Marcos are this unconventional pairing, but who's to say what's right. You know, and like I ended up dating my realtor that I met on Tinder and halfway through trying to sell my property. He was like, I'm not showing the house anymore. And he said, I'm moving in and weren't taking the property off the market. And it was like, I ended up my realtor and that, that is funny, but things, you know, I didn't plan for that, but things work out in the most unexpected ways sometimes. And I think we can, I think that's excellent advice. Like, just go with it, just go with it. Like don't overthink it.

Yeah. I think so. We all, yeah. We all overthink everything. I mean, I don't think that's exclusive to me. And especially, I think when you're looking for somebody in your dating and you're, you have like this list in your head and it's like, every box has to be checked, but certainly in mental age that has not been the case for me. And, and if it was then I'm telling you Marcos and I would never be together. Right. And that, that would be it. That would be a shame.

And it would be a shame. And you know, so back on the people's judgments and you had to overcome an awful lot. And I thought that was opening up about that people's judgments. And one person said something like really outrageous to you and at a party. And I was just like, where do people, it makes me upset that you just, you lost your husband, you know? Um, and I think I was reading somewhere, statistically, a lot of men get married like within the first year of losing someone because I don't know why that is, but women tend to take longer, but who, I mean, your grief is going to be ongoing forever. You know? So it's like, who are these people making these judgments? It just blows my mind because it's like, if you can't be kind like, if you can't say something kind, don't say anything at all, you know? Yeah. And I love that you called that out because that was important. And I think that was important because you're, you're almost like so stunned that someone would say something because you were hurting and

Right. Well, that's the thing it's like, I think people thought because I was with Marcos within a year of losing Joel, I think people assumed incorrectly like, Oh, Melissa is fine. Now. Like she's with Marcos, she's, she's better. And that could not have been further from the truth. You know? Like I, I was grieving. That's how I came up with widow ashes. You know, I didn't look like a widow. I was young and I didn't act like a winnow, especially once Marcus was in my life. But I felt like a widow. People didn't know that when they looked at me, you know, people thought, Oh, she's fine. And you know, you don't get over your grief. You don't get over the person you lost, you just learn to live with it and you move forward in life. I mean, the world keeps spinning whether you want it to or not. So you're just moving forward. I'm not, I'm not over losing my husband. And I'm certainly not over him because I'm with somebody new. It's just there there's room now for, for both.

Right. And that's what my friend Mike said on his episode, it's called, where did we go from here? And he said, you know, I don't move, you don't move on. You move forward. And I think that that's a great point. And in talking about your current relationship with Marcos, you said that a friend gave you great advice that everything you should choose, you know, moving forward should be easy. Right. And I love that. I love that. I think, you know, you decided for things to be easy to get because of all that you had gone through. And I think that's a good rule for dating as well. If it's not easy, forget about it.

Yeah. That's a good point. I agree. I would have to agree with that.

Yeah. I just think, especially with everything that we're living through and how challenging life is right now, and also being in your forties or older, we just don't have the bandwidth for a lot of additional complications.

Yeah. I would totally agree. And like, who needs that drama? And you know, I mean, listen, at middle age, you know, people, we, we all have our baggage, you know what I mean? So you can either like try to go through every piece of luggage. You just kind of accept like, okay, there's a lot of luggage here, which is like, add it to what we have and keep moving, you know, like you don't have to go through everything. Right.

And that's why I really, I like Marcos is because you made it work. And for your, for the two of you, like, you didn't have any of these, you know, how are we going to figure out what we're going to just figure it out. And we're going to create a relationship that works for both of us and maybe unconventional for someone else, but it's conventional for you.

Right? Yeah.

I think that's great. And it's, I just think people can learn so much from your book it's just beyond and you give so much hope. And that, what I think is amazing is that you were in a crisis situation at your lowest point and Marco saw you for you and you were able to find love again. And this book is just so beautiful and keeps Joel alive. And a lot of people loved him. And I love that you wrote this book to honor him and what a gift to all of us who got a chance to read it. Where can people find out more about you and by widowed fish?

First of all, thank you so much for all of those nights things you just said. I appreciate it. People can find widow wish wherever books are sold. And also on my website, which is widow wish.com. And also people can find me on Instagram, which is Melissa Gould, underscore author. And there are links on my website and on Instagram to buy my book, whether you want it through an indie bookstore or through Amazon that's available. That's great.

So run out by the book. I'm buying another one from her mom today

And thank

You so much for your time and sharing your story and inspiring all of us.

Thank you so much, Carrie. It's been really nice chatting with you. Thanks.

And for now this week's Tinder tips in honor of today's guest, Melissa Gould, these tips come straight from her. Number one, everything you do, every decision you make, every choice, make sure it's easy. Number two don't overthink things allow love to happen. Sometimes a fling turns into a thing. Number three, surround yourself with supportive people that want you to be happy, whatever your happiness looks like. Number four, say goodbye to other people's judgments, Houston, Bonnie Raitt, and give them something to talk about. Number five, God laughs at your plans, surrender and have faith that in the end, you'll be all right. I hope you found some of my tips helpful this week. This is what shot at love is here for, to help you find love. Keep up the commitment to yourself and commit to helping someone else by sharing this podcast. I want to thank bead SWAT for naming me. One of the best dating podcasts on the planet and a must follow in 2021. If you like this show, please subscribe and leave a five star review. I'm Carrie Brett, and we'll see you next time.