From 'Wolf of Wall Street' Ex-Wife to Empowered Psychotherapist: Dr. Nadine Macaluso's Story of Resilience and Love

Transcript

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In this week's episode, I will highlight the extraordinary journey of Dr Nadine Macaluso, the ex-wife of the Wolf of Wall Street, jordan Belfort.

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Belfort, once a notorious stockbroker and financial criminal deep into drug addiction, became an informant for the FBI and owed $110 million in restitution.

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During his time in prison, he wrote his memoir.

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Martin Scorsese acquired the rights and produced the blockbuster hit the Wolf of Wall Street, starring Leonardo DiCaprio, a role that captivated audiences worldwide and earned DiCaprio an Oscar nomination, while the film made $500 million.

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However, this betrayal was the story of a one-sided psychopath.

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However, this betrayal was the story of a one-sided psychopath.

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Behind the glitz and glamour of Hollywood, there's a lesser-known narrative Belfort's ex-wife, nadine, who stood on the sidelines with her story.

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Untold, gaslit and overshadowed.

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She found her voice, earned a PhD, became a psychotherapist dedicated to helping women escape pathological partners, and wrote the book Run Like Hell.

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Can we get a hell?

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Yes, for this girl.

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I'm Carrie Brett and Shot at Love starts now.

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Dr Ney's story and clinical expertise have been featured by various media outlets, including the Daily Mail, good Day New York, the Doctors and MindBodyGreen, reaching millions worldwide.

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Today we'll learn how she recovered and is now helping others.

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It is my honor to welcome Dr Nadine McAloosa to the show today.

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So, without further ado, welcome Dr Nay.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm so excited to have you you have such an inspirational story and I think people want to hear about your story that you grew up on welfare in Brooklyn.

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You became a model.

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You supported your mom during those college years.

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You fell in love with the charming stockbroker.

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Yes, take us back to that time.

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Yeah, I grew up in Brooklyn in the 1970s with a single mother who you know.

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We were on welfare for a time and it was a really magical time to grow up in Brooklyn, you know.

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There was no internet, all the kids played on the street and I grew up in a home where psychology was really discussed and how we felt was discussed at the dinner table, and so I was very blessed in that way that all of myself was very accepted in my home and I had a pretty charmed childhood, even though we didn't have money.

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There was no drama in the home, there was no yelling, but you do need to make money to live.

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So, since my parents weren't going to support me, I decided to model in New York City as the quickest, efficient way to make money.

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I was living in the city with my friends, going to Studio 54, listening to Madonna and having this fun life in New York City.

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As fate would have it, and as the movie the Wolf of Wall Street demonstrates, I walked into a party that would change my life forever, which is so crazy because that's all it takes is being, in that moment, crossing paths with somebody and you don't know, you're so young, you're just like, okay, you go to this party.

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It's like it really happens in the movie.

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That's where Jordan first sees you.

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Yeah, I go to the party.

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I had chosen the Hamptons and it wasn't as quite big a party, but there was a party and I go with my boyfriend and all of a sudden I walk into this party and everybody's like a little strange and I'm like what's happening?

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Now?

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I didn't know they were all on quaaludes at the time because I didn't even know what a quaalude was.

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And, as the movie demonstrates, somebody did expose themselves to me, which was so horrific and felt so scary as a young 22 year old girl, and I said to my boyfriend we have to leave.

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Maybe I met my ex-husband, jordan, you know the Wolf of Wall Street very briefly, but then we left, never to see any of those people again.

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Right, but it didn't work out like that.

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He saw you, and this is a true nature of men when they see something they want, doesn't matter how successful they are.

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They're going to pursue you.

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I had no idea about this.

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You know that he had seen me and this was all happening inside of his brain Because first of all, he was married.

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As a 22-year-old girl I couldn't even understand all of that.

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That somebody would think to even pursue somebody while married that just didn't even compute in my brain.

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He made a mutual friend of ours 15,000 in the stock market to set us up with her.

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We went out and he showed up and I thought it was strange he was coming.

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I said why is he coming?

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Isn't he married?

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And she said what?

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He was coming.

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I said why is he coming?

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Isn't he married?

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And she said what do you care?

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I said I don't care, just weird.

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So he came and he got out of his white testarossa and sauntered over with his cowboy boots and sat down next to me.

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And I'm from Brooklyn, he's from Queens and he was super charming and we just got along really well.

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So he pays this person to find you, have you come to the restaurant, $15,000.

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That's a lot of money back then, right?

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That's like 100,000 today.

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Right, talk about a finder's fee.

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It's like, I think, the best scene in the movie, though, when Margot Robey, who plays you, and he starts talking about friends I can have friends and she says we're not going to be friends.

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Obviously there was a connect like a really strong.

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There was real chemistry, yeah.

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So after the time that you know, we went out the set up date that I didn't know was a set up date.

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About six months later, we actually went out on our first date.

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He had told me he was separated and he had a separate apartment from his wife.

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That was it.

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We went out on our first date and the rest, as they say, is history.

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These things.

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They do become toxic.

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They're very fun in the beginning.

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That's where the addiction starts.

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And the dopamine and the oxytocin yeah, I never knew that and I've done a lot of research on this.

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And when you broke it down that way that it's as difficult to get out of a relationship like this, it's equivalent to breaking a cocaine habit.

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And that made me feel better, because if you have the information, then you're not beating yourself up Like how could I keep going back and why can I not get out of this?

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And it takes so many tries and times.

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So let's go back to this whirlwind relationship and he's doing really well and he's able to show you a life that you've never experienced.

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You know, and you have to also think about the time right.

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That was when Pretty Woman was coming out right.

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That was when the movie Wall Street was out right.

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So there were always myths and themes that, like, someday your prince is going to come and save you.

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I wish you with this amazing lifestyle and you're going to live happily ever after.

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Well, that couldn't have been further from the truth, but it was a whirlwind.

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It felt so good.

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We would travel, we would go to the fanciest restaurants.

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He would take me shopping.

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He would send his driver to my house with a Bulgari watch.

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One time he sent his driver to my house with $15,000.

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I said what's this?

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Or he's like just for the fuck of it.

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So I mean, there was all of this over the top intense behavior mixed in over the top.

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I love you.

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You're my soulmate.

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We're going to be together forever.

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And he was young, he was handsome, he was self-made.

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You just think to yourself I've met a unicorn.

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What's not to love right?

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What's not to love?

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He's super nice to me and just sweeping me off my feet doesn't even describe it well enough.

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You get the gist of it and, like I say in my book, intensity is not intimacy.

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But in the beginning of these relationships, what know what I just described?

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What he was doing is love, bombing right.

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And then the constant texting and the constant attention.

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And the gifts and you spoke about.

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One time he gave you all this money and you didn't even know how to.

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You bought your mom a stereo because you didn't even know how to spend it.

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Yeah, I didn't.

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I couldn't even spend it if I tried.

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I did run around to a lot of stores and buy a lot of pretty dresses, but it just wasn't anything that I was used to, and so we felt, of course, extraordinarily compatible.

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That lasted for a short time.

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No one back then.

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Like you said, this was the time of wall street and pretty woman.

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We got our information from very limited tv or movies oh yeah, very limited tv movies, yes and so no one was talking about grooming, no, or intuition.

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Listening to yourself does this feel right?

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How do I check it?

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You didn't even talk to your girlfriends about this stuff.

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People just got in relationships, got married, yeah, and it was just fast and furious and it happened really quickly and it felt very natural, you know, as I describe in my book and as I describe in most trauma bonds, very quickly his mask, this Prince Charming mask, started to fall.

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But at that point I was already hooked in and believed I was in love.

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And love can conquer everything.

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Yeah, the hope is the hook, like you say.

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So the hope of this happy lifestyle, and why would you give it up, right?

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I mean, there's way too much good, way too much good, and this is definitely the pattern where they how do we get you isolated?

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How do we make you mine, in a sense?

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Yes, yes, because we're an object to have and to hold, not a person to love.

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And there was, like we say, nobody was talking about narcissism, love bombing.

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Nobody, not even my therapist, was talking about this.

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I mean I think we're close in age and I don't even think having a therapist was a thing back then when I got married.

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Yeah, because I grew up again in a house that was psychologically oriented, so it was accepted.

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But you're right, most people did not even go to therapy.

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I was strange that I went to therapy.

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Right and I grew up Irish Catholic, so Irish was the last one.

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You went to confession or to the priest, that's right.

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He starts pushing you to get engaged and that happens.

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Talk about that.

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It's all the domination and the high pressure sales tactics start If you're not going to marry me, I'm not going to date you.

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And then, if you're not going to have children right away, I'm not going to marry you.

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Inside, I felt like this is nuts, you know, but he's so strong and so dominant and so intimidating.

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And then, you know, the young girl in me, again swept up in the love, was like oh, he just must love me so much.

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That's why he wants to do this, not thinking that this was all a manipulation.

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To wrap me up quickly, probably before I realized who he really was Because you are strong, and you were strong then, but once things get complicated.

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Yeah, and I couldn't have boundaries with him.

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That wasn't allowed.

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You know, I mean when to get married and when to have children are very big decisions, you know it's not like what lipstick to wear, what dress to wear, and there was no respect for what I needed or wanted.

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It was his way or the highway, and I just got plowed over and I went along with it.

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Yeah, I would fight.

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Initially I think I actually threw a glass Tropicana juice jar I just had once over the child thing because I was so enraged by this.

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Now I know is coercive control, but I was no match for him.

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But it takes a long time of pain to realize that you can get out and that you are not a match for him.

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But it takes a long time of pain to realize that you can get out and that you are not a match for him.

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Yeah, and I think you knew down deep because you do talk about when he does buy you the five carat ring and he takes you to your favorite restaurant.

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You didn't feel the way you thought you should have felt and I can't tell you how many people I talked to who said I knew going down the aisle, I knew the moment I got that ring.

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I knew, I always knew, but I didn't know how to.

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Yeah.

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I didn't know how to voice that I, first of all, was not connected to my own power at all at 22.

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I mean let's be real, and I certainly wasn't connected to my intuition.

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And so, even though my gut said Ohoh, as I talk about in that video when he gives me the ring, I then got overridden by the dopamine and the oxytocin Because then, guess what, we were going to Paris on the Concorde.

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So, uh-oh, I'm like, push that uh-oh down.

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And now I'm off to Paris on the Concorde and he's still trying to coerce me into doing what he wants me to do.

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But like we say that that's the intermittent abuse.

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Right, You're flying to Paris on the Concorde, but then in the hotel he's ripping a phone out of the wall because I'm not agreeing to have children.

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And that's so scary and it's so confusing.

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So scary and so confusing.

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And then, wait, is he?

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This is where it comes in.

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Is he a good guy or a bad guy?

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The cognitive dissonance, so the intermittent reinforcement, or the intermittent re abuse, which is, you know, 70% of the time he was cruel, controlling, intimidating, insulting, and 30% of the time he was generous, kind and helpful and loving, right Started, right from the beginning, but again, I didn't know what it was.

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And there was no books there was no books.

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There's no books and that's so scary, it's.

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So how did we all it's like it's how did we all even make it?

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I don't know.

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Women are really strong.

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I don't know Women are really strong.

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And I don't know exactly what happened with the yacht.

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When you were like, you went and said we have to call Mayday, and you saved yourself.

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Yeah, so many times, so many times.

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Yeah, I just got goosebumps when you said that yeah.

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I mean think about it.

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I had a bumper sticker on the back of my truck that said you know, my angels are on the run.

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My angels are on the run, yeah.

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Yeah, I say.

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All my angels drink on the job.

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They're so tired of me and my bad decisions.

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Yes, yes, yes.

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And you know, and I think as a young girl I really wasn't connected to my gut, to my power, to you know, I didn't even really know who I was, so it was much easier for him to override me.

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Well, how are you supposed to figure out who you are and listen to yourself when you're constantly trying to hide the truth about him and the chaos that really is behind the scenes.

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Yeah, which is a full-time job.

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Yeah, it was a full-time job.

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Yeah, and battle with him, battle with him.

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You know, a person like this is highly antagonistic and hostile, which, again, you don't realize till life unfolds.

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But your mom was one of those angels who was like, oh, you don't really need to do this if you don't want to do this.

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Yes, she was.

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So now this movie comes out, and now it must have been pretty challenging for you because, like you said, you saw pain of your story, but then something clicked in you and you're like I'm going to do something, I'm going to write my story.

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First, jordan wrote a book and that was hard enough because I had left him and I had moved to California.

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I started a new him and I had moved to California, I started a new life and I was very blessed in that way with my children and my current husband, and I was like this shit's just going to follow me for the rest of my life.

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Like here I am thinking I could start fresh, but then, you know, he decided to write the book, I think in 2007.

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And then, in 2013 was when the movie came out and I was just getting my doctorate.

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At that point, I was finishing my doctorate.

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And you're like who's going to come to me?

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Right, you're about, often doesn't manifest, you know it.

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Um, people did want to come because they were like, wait, you did this and you're over here like no you, if you did this for yourself, hopefully you can help me pull me through so what was the superpower?

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yeah, it all, it all worked out, but it's still.

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Even when the movie came out, I had no idea that I was going to use this movie as a platform to help women.

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I wish I could say I was some genius that had it all planned out.

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I did it.

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Well, that makes sense because Hollywood's Hollywood, right.

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So it's not real life and it's so extreme when these things happen.

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It happens like a tidal wave and you're kind of like on the outskirts watching this whole thing.

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So it's a lot to process.

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I think.

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Oh yeah, I was in therapy.

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I mean, I've been in therapy for 25 years.

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That's what saved me Aside from being a therapist, that's what made me be a therapist, yeah.

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So I was in therapy, processing and ad nauseum.

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So how many years after the movie did you decide to write the book?

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I'd say a good seven years later and what had happened was that, as I write in my book, all these smart, kind, beautiful women were coming into my therapy room, trauma bonded, staying with men that were coercively controlling them, abusing them, abusing their children, betraying them, being financially abusive, and I just was like we have a problem.

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We do.

00:17:53.720 --> 00:18:07.592
And this was when Jeffrey Epstein and Harvey Weinstein this was all also in the news and I was got very fascinated about these dark, tetrad, pathological people and how they're affected in society and families and couples.

00:18:08.053 --> 00:18:13.522
And it's playing out all over the place in movies in reality shows.

00:18:13.522 --> 00:18:17.597
Yes, numbers are increasing with the pandemic.

00:18:17.597 --> 00:18:20.236
Yes, people are in crisis.

00:18:20.236 --> 00:18:30.152
I see it with social workers, I see it everywhere and I agree with you it was the time it really was the time to do it.

00:18:30.152 --> 00:18:31.113
Time it really was the time to do it.

00:18:31.113 --> 00:18:38.782
It's shocking to me that 75% of your clients it's a large number are in this trauma bond relationship.

00:18:38.782 --> 00:18:40.865
Yeah, which is the most dangerous?

00:18:45.869 --> 00:18:46.471
Yeah, because so many people?

00:18:46.471 --> 00:18:47.695
I mean, why do people really come to therapy?

00:18:47.695 --> 00:18:49.040
Usually their relationships are driving them crazy.

00:18:49.040 --> 00:19:01.665
I mean, some people do come for their own anxiety or depression, for sure, you know, or if they have like a serious you know mood disorder such as bipolar, but most people come because of relationship issues Interesting.

00:19:01.665 --> 00:19:09.801
That's just what I've discovered, and or maybe they came to me for those reasons, and I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, right.

00:19:09.801 --> 00:19:11.565
So that's all about relationships.

00:19:11.565 --> 00:19:14.092
A licensed marriage and family therapist, right.

00:19:14.092 --> 00:19:14.853
So that's all about relationships.

00:19:14.853 --> 00:19:22.570
Again, I had no idea that this would all materialize like this, but then, ironically, I had this movie to use as a vehicle.

00:19:23.112 --> 00:19:38.152
He used it in his way and you used it in your way, and I prefer your way, but much better, your way, but much better.

00:19:38.152 --> 00:19:43.532
But what's interesting too, is that you're able to use your story and I think that's so great because people hold on to stories but you're able to use the other stories of the women that you help.

00:19:44.253 --> 00:19:49.203
Yes, and that's really powerful because you show all these examples.

00:19:49.203 --> 00:19:56.336
When I first heard you come on and your voice and you reading it and the first words that you said, I was like bawling.

00:19:56.336 --> 00:19:58.301
I'm like this is unbelievable.

00:19:58.301 --> 00:20:05.751
This woman is so strong and you can just like cut a knife through what you've lived, like that pain and like what you've lived.

00:20:05.751 --> 00:20:12.473
It's so raw and so real and I can only imagine how difficult it was for you.

00:20:12.473 --> 00:20:24.500
And and you said that the process ate you from the inside out and at times you felt like you're losing your mind and your mom said when you think you're losing your mind, you're probably regaining it.

00:20:24.921 --> 00:20:29.434
Yeah, Writing the second chapter especially called Is he Twisted or Tender?

00:20:29.596 --> 00:20:29.816
Right.

00:20:29.836 --> 00:20:31.719
About the pathological partner.

00:20:31.719 --> 00:20:41.237
It was very, very painful, yeah, writing about that darkness that many of us have experienced when we were supposed to be in love.

00:20:42.211 --> 00:20:44.698
It never leaves you and you're changed forever.

00:20:44.698 --> 00:20:53.951
Yeah, part of you, you can show women that you can have a happy life and have healthy relationships and have your power, which is incredible.

00:20:53.951 --> 00:20:59.776
And use that power to do good in the world and help other women, because it is a powerless thing.

00:21:00.574 --> 00:21:01.529
It is a powerless thing.

00:21:01.529 --> 00:21:18.031
And you know, one time I was in therapy amazing therapist Celine LaPierre, I'll give her a shout out, she's in Los Angeles, very talented woman and I was talking to her about power and something that I wanted to do and I said, oh, I can't do that, that's given me too much power.

00:21:18.031 --> 00:21:19.515
She goes what's wrong with power?

00:21:19.515 --> 00:21:24.373
I said, well, I just associated with greed and abuse and exploitation.

00:21:24.373 --> 00:21:27.398
She said, nadine, you have a light magic.

00:21:27.398 --> 00:21:30.230
She said here's your power for good.

00:21:30.230 --> 00:21:40.498
And it was one of the most profound statements this was probably eight, nine years ago that anybody one of them that I'll never forget and I was like, oh wait, we don't.

00:21:40.498 --> 00:21:42.719
This is what people do.

00:21:42.719 --> 00:21:59.182
I like really gave me a mind shift around power because, as we know, in a, in a trauma bond, the second piece is the power imbalance.

00:21:59.182 --> 00:22:02.315
One person has the power and abuses it.

00:22:03.998 --> 00:22:08.932
How great would it be to find the love of your life, the man of your dreams.

00:22:08.932 --> 00:22:14.144
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00:22:14.144 --> 00:22:16.176
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00:22:16.176 --> 00:22:20.009
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00:22:20.009 --> 00:22:26.859
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00:22:26.859 --> 00:22:33.571
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00:22:34.073 --> 00:22:41.817
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00:22:41.817 --> 00:22:50.913
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00:22:50.913 --> 00:22:55.482
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00:22:55.482 --> 00:23:05.484
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00:23:05.484 --> 00:23:07.798
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00:23:07.798 --> 00:23:13.542
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00:23:13.542 --> 00:23:18.481
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00:23:23.111 --> 00:23:36.684
I like what you say about Hollywood and what we're seeing around us, and we need to shift the thinking that it's the woman's fault or like we're accountable for other people's actions.

00:23:36.684 --> 00:23:45.585
And oftentimes this type of personality goes to the light because they have to balance the darkness.

00:23:45.585 --> 00:23:51.497
They dim your light, steal your light temporarily and that's scary.

00:23:51.497 --> 00:23:53.896
Again, it's like you said it's the power.

00:23:53.896 --> 00:23:56.194
Someone has to have all the power.

00:23:56.596 --> 00:24:03.790
And now I'm working towards, you know, educating people that, like I, can be in my power, which simply means the ability to influence myself.

00:24:03.790 --> 00:24:08.791
Right, that's what it means to be empowered and my partner can be in his power, and we can be connected.

00:24:09.374 --> 00:24:18.142
And it doesn't have to be this hierarchical one over the other, and you know that's one of the reasons why I wrote my book and I'm sure you feel this in the writing.

00:24:18.142 --> 00:24:20.032
I turn the tables on.

00:24:20.032 --> 00:24:22.657
Can we stop blaming the victim?

00:24:22.657 --> 00:24:24.942
Can we just stop?

00:24:24.942 --> 00:24:34.519
Abuse is always the fault of the abuser and in no way was I responsible for his abuse or drug addiction and in no way was I responsible for his abuse or drug addiction.

00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:34.898
But I was made to.

00:24:34.898 --> 00:24:35.420
You're codependent.

00:24:35.420 --> 00:24:39.763
You enabled this and it's like you think I could have stopped.

00:24:39.763 --> 00:24:40.805
Jordan Belfort right.

00:24:43.829 --> 00:25:00.132
But that was the old model, but I think you're seeing now, collectively with women, that they're moving away from competition and they're collaborating and they're highlighting each other's lights and they're moving away from competition and they're collaborating and they're highlighting each other's lights and they're empowering each other and it's beautiful to see that we're stronger together.

00:25:00.132 --> 00:25:03.101
And you saw that with the Me Too movement and you're seeing it.

00:25:03.430 --> 00:25:05.876
Yes, I see it Even through social media.

00:25:05.876 --> 00:25:06.317
You know which.

00:25:06.317 --> 00:25:26.651
I know there's a lot of people have issues with it, but I have to say, for this, this sort of purpose, it's incredibly helpful and I have like a whole band of women right On social media that we're all supporting each other and we're all working towards helping to educate people and empower them to make the world a better place.

00:25:27.472 --> 00:25:32.141
I don't know that you'll ever stop it, but you'll be able to move out of it quicker.

00:25:32.141 --> 00:25:35.847
Don't know that you'll ever stop it, but you'll be able to move out of it quicker, quicker.

00:25:35.847 --> 00:25:42.365
Yes, you'll know the red flags and you were strong, so you were never going to be a match for that type of relationship.

00:25:42.365 --> 00:25:43.089
It just wasn't going to be for you.

00:25:43.630 --> 00:25:44.814
No, and and that's.

00:25:44.814 --> 00:25:46.298
I did a video about this recently.

00:25:46.298 --> 00:25:59.071
I don't know if you saw it where I say you know, my girls are saying to me now, dr Ney, it's not taking four years, it's not taking four months, it's taking four weeks, and I'm recognizing they're pathological lovers and I'm getting rid of them.

00:25:59.232 --> 00:26:00.035
That's so great.

00:26:00.035 --> 00:26:05.557
I've been studying this stuff for a long time and in your book you wrote about twinship.

00:26:05.557 --> 00:26:07.642
That's the first time I even heard that word.

00:26:08.150 --> 00:26:16.898
Yeah, twinship, where they start to mirror you Like I like french fries, you like french fries, I like pizza, I like you know classical music.

00:26:16.898 --> 00:26:18.313
And you're like God.

00:26:18.313 --> 00:26:22.201
This person and I are just perfect match soulmates.

00:26:22.201 --> 00:26:24.234
It's all manipulation.

00:26:24.576 --> 00:26:26.020
Oh my gosh, it's so crazy.

00:26:26.020 --> 00:26:37.105
So let's talk about manipulation and the mind mapping and why they need the domination and why they need to control you and make you feel crazy.

00:26:37.970 --> 00:26:41.140
Yeah, because at the bottom of a trauma bond is coercive control.

00:26:41.140 --> 00:26:43.257
Right, the person wants control.

00:26:43.257 --> 00:26:45.156
So how do we gain control over people?

00:26:45.156 --> 00:26:49.140
We dominate and intimidate them so that they fear us.

00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:55.002
We manipulate them with lying, or we manipulate them with gaslighting.

00:26:55.002 --> 00:26:56.453
We could see them do something.

00:26:56.453 --> 00:26:59.000
And then they say I didn't do that, you're crazy.

00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:01.615
Or they're mind mapping us.

00:27:01.694 --> 00:27:07.736
And I use this example in the book of where one of the women had a father that abandoned her.

00:27:07.736 --> 00:27:17.277
So whenever she got into a fight with her spouse he would abandon her to rip that core wound open, so she would come crawling back to him.

00:27:17.277 --> 00:27:27.550
All of the tactics intimidation, manipulation, domination, isolation they're all weapons of coercive control because that person wants to control you.

00:27:27.550 --> 00:27:36.198
I would talk to a woman yesterday amazing, amazing woman who told me her ex-husband called her 200 times and went out.

00:27:36.198 --> 00:27:39.880
And that's what we're talking about monitoring them.

00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:46.281
For me it was you know, quit your job, stay at home, move where I want you to live.

00:27:46.281 --> 00:27:55.952
Plus the intimidation and the domination, plus the lying, plus the betrayal, and all of a sudden they strip away your sense of self.

00:27:55.952 --> 00:28:00.172
You're a lot easier to control when you have no sense of self and you're afraid and confused.

00:28:00.933 --> 00:28:04.240
Right, and you touch upon this being afraid.

00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:13.234
And one of the most powerful things I think you wrote in your book was when Jordan would say to you the only way you're getting out of this relationship is in a body bag.

00:28:13.234 --> 00:28:14.498
That's right.

00:28:14.498 --> 00:28:16.482
That took my breath away.

00:28:16.482 --> 00:28:22.942
Yeah, that's the highest level right there of yeah, where do you think you're going?

00:28:23.324 --> 00:28:25.791
And you know that's why I finally did leave him.

00:28:25.791 --> 00:28:48.740
When he got an ankle bracelet on and you know all the trolls on the internet will say to me oh, you left him cause he lost all his money, I was like no, I left him because I was emotionally and verbally abused for seven to eight years, finally kicked down the stairs and I finally felt safe once he had an ankle bracelet on because I knew he could, it was the government's problem and couldn't hurt me anymore.

00:28:48.740 --> 00:28:50.672
And I knew he couldn't say I was a drug addict.

00:28:50.672 --> 00:28:53.897
I knew he couldn't say I was a bad mom because it was so blatant.

00:28:53.917 --> 00:29:01.720
Now, Well, that was a blessing because it almost, in a sense, once the government took over, there was no more decision for you.

00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:07.803
Like that was, like that was your, like the doors open like it had opened and you had to run like hell.

00:29:09.872 --> 00:29:12.016
You had to run like hell and not look back.

00:29:12.016 --> 00:29:24.051
And when people make comments, like people who the trolls and all those things, and it's just, you're beautiful, you're powerful, you help people.

00:29:24.051 --> 00:29:26.277
You're just like the light magic.

00:29:26.277 --> 00:29:29.182
So people are going to take shots at you.

00:29:29.182 --> 00:29:32.276
I mean, that's just going to be the, I don't care Whatever.

00:29:32.856 --> 00:29:35.702
Usually I heart them and just to confuse them yeah.

00:29:35.803 --> 00:29:36.304
I love that.

00:29:36.490 --> 00:29:43.559
I have to say I don't really even have a lot of trolls and as a 56 year old woman I realized mostly everything people say to us is projection anyway.

00:29:43.579 --> 00:29:44.141
Yeah, I agree.

00:29:45.111 --> 00:29:56.714
So I don't get upset about it, but I think it's important to illuminate that because it just shows how afraid I was that I literally had to wait till he got an ankle bracelet on.

00:29:56.996 --> 00:29:58.137
I think that's the story.

00:29:58.137 --> 00:30:03.938
You had a post and you said leave before your soulmate becomes your soulmate.

00:30:05.099 --> 00:30:08.303
Yes, there you go.

00:30:08.303 --> 00:30:09.344
There she is.

00:30:09.344 --> 00:30:11.905
Yeah, and a lot of my patients.

00:30:11.905 --> 00:30:19.772
I always say this to them I'm like you don't have the luck that your ex-husband is going to get arrested.

00:30:19.772 --> 00:30:32.163
It makes it more challenging Because for me, that power imbalance then shifted, then shifted.

00:30:32.163 --> 00:30:32.865
He was no longer up here.

00:30:32.865 --> 00:30:34.150
We were on much more even playing fields.

00:30:34.150 --> 00:30:42.980
And when that doesn't shift, and if the man has more money or has more power because of what he does, and then a lot of women go into the court system, it's really, really challenging, don't?

00:30:43.020 --> 00:30:44.465
get me started on the court system, but-.

00:30:45.881 --> 00:30:47.442
I know I won't, I know it's a hot topic.

00:30:48.003 --> 00:31:01.811
It's scary and when you're dealing with somebody who has control of the finances and your life and they're gambling or addicted to drugs or involved in criminal behavior.

00:31:01.811 --> 00:31:05.306
Look out as high conflict as you can get.

00:31:05.768 --> 00:31:06.288
It really is.

00:31:06.288 --> 00:31:11.811
Unfortunately, the courts and the judges are not educated enough on these pathological people.

00:31:11.811 --> 00:31:25.700
Now, listen, I'm hoping, as these big celebrities that are totally pathological, like we've seen this week with P Diddy you know that hopefully they're starting to wake up a little bit, but we've got a long way to go there.

00:31:26.101 --> 00:31:34.944
So when he was taken by the FBI and put on house arrest, you didn't really have the tools that you give other people.

00:31:34.944 --> 00:31:39.905
Take us back to that person, because it wasn't like you were sitting there journaling.

00:31:39.905 --> 00:31:41.750
I'm not responsible for his choices.

00:31:41.750 --> 00:31:45.369
Like you know, you're not doing all these things that we have today.

00:31:46.359 --> 00:31:50.108
No, I'm not, but after I left him I did.

00:31:50.108 --> 00:32:04.443
There's a place called the Karen Foundation and I did go check myself into a program there called Breakthrough, which is a great program if anybody wants to go for five days and rediscover themselves like from six in the morning to 7pm at night.

00:32:04.443 --> 00:32:11.680
So I did go there for a week between Christmas and New Year's after I left him and that really helped me a lot.

00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:15.682
That was the first time I learned about boundaries 31,.

00:32:15.682 --> 00:32:19.327
I didn't know you could say no, I did not really understand boundaries.

00:32:19.327 --> 00:32:21.828
So I got a good psychoeducation there.

00:32:21.828 --> 00:32:36.461
They did really teach me about kind of the things that I talk about today Not exactly as I talk about it, but it was enough of a springboard and plus I had had the therapy from before and I just was not going back, no matter what.

00:32:37.021 --> 00:32:44.602
And I did have again a really smart mother and good friends and I did read Codependent no More.

00:32:44.602 --> 00:32:47.125
I dove into very serious healing.

00:32:47.125 --> 00:32:50.131
Did you ever lose hope about finding love?

00:32:50.131 --> 00:32:56.068
Oh, sure, sure, of course I mean because I was like, who can I trust?

00:32:56.068 --> 00:32:57.513
But it's also.

00:32:57.513 --> 00:33:01.384
It was about me learning to trust myself to make the right decision.

00:33:01.903 --> 00:33:07.494
I think about you being a young mom alone with young children.

00:33:07.494 --> 00:33:17.152
Oh yeah, no one was alone like that, like they didn't get divorced with young children back then and and you didn't really have a bunch of friends to look to.

00:33:18.121 --> 00:33:19.904
No, none of my friends were divorced.

00:33:19.904 --> 00:33:23.192
No, none of them had really been dealing with the.

00:33:23.192 --> 00:33:26.224
You know the sheer madness of what I've been dealing with.

00:33:26.224 --> 00:33:30.231
My love for my children was my guiding light.

00:33:30.573 --> 00:33:30.712
Right.

00:33:31.034 --> 00:33:33.945
So I was like I got these two little souls that are five and three.

00:33:33.945 --> 00:33:41.973
I got to figure this out for them and they gave me pretty intense motivation and strength.

00:33:42.054 --> 00:33:43.798
Yeah, and you talk about that.

00:33:43.798 --> 00:33:47.152
You're like pain and suffering is is a pretty good motivator.

00:33:47.673 --> 00:33:51.548
It's a really good motivator, cause I was like I, when I went to the Karen Foundation.

00:33:51.548 --> 00:33:54.046
I remember I looked at the girl who was.

00:33:54.046 --> 00:33:54.626
I went.

00:33:54.626 --> 00:33:55.990
You know just a friend I met there.

00:33:55.990 --> 00:33:57.826
I was like God, I'm never going to be the same.

00:33:57.826 --> 00:33:59.788
She's like good, because you were fucked up.

00:33:59.788 --> 00:34:03.686
I was like yeah, I really was.

00:34:03.686 --> 00:34:16.728
I was just living in this crazy dysfunctional land and I really had to relearn how to live basically, and put in boundaries and find balance.

00:34:17.581 --> 00:34:23.144
And I remember saying to my kids they were little I didn't take it from your dad, I'm not going to take it from the dog, I'm not going to take it from you.

00:34:23.260 --> 00:34:26.599

From 'Wolf of Wall Street' Ex-Wife to Empowered Psychotherapist: Dr. Nadine Macaluso's Story of Resilience and Love

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