Golden Dating Doctors Guide: Prescription For Finding Love At Any Age

Speaker 1: 0:02

Get ready to be swept off your feet for this dynamic duo, the Golden Dating Doctors, these two aren't just experts, but are living proof that love knows no age limits. They share their secrets to senior dating in their new book, open To Love. Picture this, both psychologists and seniors who stumbled on each other's hearts on silver singles after enduring personal losses. Their love story isn't just inspiring. It's a testament to the endless possibilities of love. Even when it seems out of reach, they'll share the highs and lows of dating, shining the pathway to success and finding love at any stage in life. This episode is for those seeking love and for anyone who's ever doubted that their best days are behind them, and why you should never stop believing. I'm Carrie Brett , and shot at Love starts. Now it's my honor to welcome the Golden Dating Doctors. So without further ado, welcome Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Frank Powers. Hello. It's so wonderful to have you both here.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Hello. It is nice to be here. We're looking forward to it.

Speaker 1: 1:11

I'm looking forward to, and I'm so excited that you found each other and that you're here to share your story. After years of working with thousands of couples, you were amazed with the lack of information out there for seniors about overcoming loneliness and all the challenges that brings. Gloria, let's start with you. In 2021, Phil , your partner of 60 years died of a staph infection following back surgery. Bring us back to that time.

Speaker 2: 1:41

Uh, you know what's interesting, I'll take it before he died, because , um, he knew he was seriously ill. He'd had a staph infection before and, and he knew things were going downhill and he said, you know, Gloria, when I pass away, you're gonna find somebody. And I'm like, no way. And he's like, yeah, way you are. You're gonna find somebody. And I'm like, again, no way. And he was right. He made , they gave , bill <laugh> gave me permission to go on after his death. And I went into a grief group, actually online because it was during Covid. And I met a guy who played golf and I'm an avid golfer. And we ended up being together. His wife died , uh, uh, two days after Phil . And we just golfed. We just went through this insane golfing thing and then he got to know me a little better, golfing their grief, golfing's their grief, <laugh> . And he got to know me a bit better and said, your life's too big. I can't handle it. I can't handle your kids. I <laugh> , I've got grandkids. He was like, I'm done. I'm outta here. And I'm like, okay. And I learned so much from dating him. Yeah . That I decided I'd write a book for widows. Well, he told me that he had online, he said, I'll, you know, find some other women because I'm, yeah , I've gone online and uh , and I'm like, really online. And so I decided I needed to write a chapter on online dating. So I went on silver singles and just signed up and, you know, filled out the stuff. I met Frank online. He was , uh, through Silver Single We met. And it was, I don't know, was it Love at First Sight?

Speaker 3: 3:21

Pretty much for amazing <laugh> ,

Speaker 2: 3:23

You know, I found out he was a psychologist, so he

Speaker 3: 3:26

Actually looked like our photograph on our profile.

Speaker 1: 3:29

<laugh> . There you go.

Speaker 2: 3:30

Yeah. We met for dinner in Arizona and we've been together for the last two years and loving it . And I said to Frank, I was gonna write a book for widows, but I really want to give them that content still. Uh, people who are looking for love, because I learned so much in the single world that I never totally surprised as a therapist. And I counseled thousands of women. And I was surprised when I had the experience. So I said, I really still wanna write the book, but will you write it with me and give a male perspective on dating and meeting people and knowing who you are? And there's just so much more about knowing yourself and

Speaker 3: 4:08

Our meetup, which was absolutely wonderful, which moment she walked in, I said, oh my God, this lady is gorgeous. And she's smart. <laugh> . Yeah . Oh my God. And she's a golfer. <laugh> <laugh> .

Speaker 1: 4:22

You start the book, Gloria with this guy who's like, okay, you're too much. And you're like , you're like, great, sorry for being so awesome <laugh> . And he's like, I'm gonna go find somebody else rather quickly. And you're like, okay.

Speaker 3: 4:38

I think he made a great decision. <laugh>

Speaker 1: 4:40

<laugh> . I agree. For you , for your sake

Speaker 3: 4:44

Door for me .

Speaker 1: 4:44

That's right.

Speaker 2: 4:45

It , it really was nice to have dated somebody before Frank, because had I met him, I think he probably would not have been as anxious to date me. 'cause here's this widow and, you know. Yeah . I would've had

Speaker 3: 5:00

More that my experience as a therapist was that people need time to heal , uh, and get over their grief. And if they're still in grief , um, they're really not available. Male or female.

Speaker 1: 5:12

No, it's true. 'cause you have all these types of people who are in different stages, whether they're in grief, whether they've had heartbreak or divorce. You talked about someone that wasn't dealing with their memory loss and they had their name on their shirt. Gloria, I thought that was really

Speaker 2: 5:32

<laugh> . That was one of my dates . Yeah , <laugh> . Yeah .

Speaker 1: 5:34

And you have those moments where you're like, am I being punked? What is happening here? But those highs and lows of dating, no matter what age, it's so important to talk about in your book , and this is why I absolutely adore the two of you. I adore the matching date, Dr . Jackets, I wanna be your agent. I mean, this is just too much. And how can anyone like not love you and be inspired by this? And this is what I love about the Golden Bachelor, is that it's opening up hope.

Speaker 2: 6:09

Oh yeah. Well , that's

Speaker 3: 6:11

What we would like to do. We like to show it's really possible and don't give up hope because there's someone out there for you if you're only persistent and you stay in the game. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:21

We figured there's one person out there for everybody.

Speaker 1: 6:24

I agree. I wanna talk about the dating process. So your second date was with Frank. You both connected, you were both psychologists, but you immediately connected because you had some tragedies and some shared loss. Right . And that brought you together. And it's true. I mean, you can have a lot of compassion, but if you haven't gone through a lot of the similar situations, you really don't understand unless you lived through it.

Speaker 2: 6:56

Yeah. Frank had actually gone through the death of his dad when he was 15. And then I had gone through the loss of my 17-year-old son in an automobile accident many years ago. So,

Speaker 3: 7:06

And my aunt had been like a second mother to me, and , and she died eight months before I met Gloria. So I, I was feeling kind of isolated and alone, and I'm really wondering if I was ever gonna have another relationship in my life. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> right after divorce. I mean , I , I just didn't know. And it wasn't until I met Gloria that I thought, wow, you know, I don't think I'm too old to have a relationship. <laugh> , maybe not, maybe not .

Speaker 2: 7:38

My , my grandmother said to me , uh, after my husband died and I , I took a trip to Lake Powell with her. She's a really wonderful kid. And she said to me, grandma, don't you wanna play the field? <laugh> <laugh> ? I said, Eli , that there is no field <laugh> .

Speaker 1: 7:54

I love

Speaker 2: 7:54

That. But then I found out there was a field <laugh> .

Speaker 3: 7:58

That's

Speaker 2: 7:58

Right .

Speaker 1: 7:58

I was so moved by the story on the Golden, and I don't wanna give the whole show away, but there was one bachelorette who missed her daughter's wedding, and the daughter was like, mom, I've got my guy. I want you to find yours. I was crying because I just thought how selfless.

Speaker 2: 8:16

Yeah . Well, how about when Joan left the show?

Speaker 1: 8:18

Oh, I know.

Speaker 2: 8:19

Oh gosh. That was a total tear breaker. 'cause the her daughter's postpartum depression. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:24

I , I really resonated with that story because I was bedridden with my only child for five months and I had complications and lots of complications and I don't know where I would've been without my mom. And it was so true what she said, just because your children are grown, you're not not a parent. There was so many moments.

Speaker 2: 8:44

Yeah. They, they didn't mention on there that her daughter, we've talked to Jonah and interviewed her and her daughter had had a couple of open heart surgeries. Yeah . In fact.

Speaker 3: 8:53

So she was vulnerable.

Speaker 2: 8:54

So she was also vulnerable, you know, on that level. Right.

Speaker 1: 8:58

And you could tell that even though she had a connection, she just, she was like, I have to go. And I do believe in divine timing. And Jonah's so beautiful. She'll have her choice anywhere. She's beautiful outside and inside and she'll just be fine. But it , it must've been hard for her.

Speaker 2: 9:16

You know, one of the things that we love to say about , um, the Bachelor show is the people , uh, Leslie , you know , um, how hard it was for her to, you know, not be the chosen one in the end. It was Leslie was Yeah. Leslie . Yeah. Leslie. Yeah . And we,

Speaker 3: 9:31

Teresa was the one he chose.

Speaker 2: 9:33

Yeah. And we wanna say that, you know, you're a veteran now and you've opened your heart. And if you can let yourself heal, you have to realize that you really have learned something. Now you can move back into the dating world with this information that you've got. And ,

Speaker 3: 9:47

And I think she did say that this kind of opened her heart. And so she doesn't wanna close it. She wants to keep her heart open because she felt something with Gary that she didn't know she could feel again. Yeah. And , and that was my experience. I , I wasn't sure I open to a relationship and, you know, I thought, you know , I'm an old guy, you know , uh, who's gonna want an old guy? <laugh>.

Speaker 2: 10:16

<laugh> . There we are .

Speaker 1: 10:17

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 10:19

And it was so wonderful to , to know that you were just so excited about meeting me and I was so excited about meeting you. And we were just, we hung out for the whole most of the evening.

Speaker 2: 10:31

Yeah. We had so much in common. We , uh, up been trained by this . We speak the same language. We trained by the same people. Yeah . In fact, most people will be bored by us. 'cause we talk constantly. <laugh> .

Speaker 1: 10:41

I love that. I know that's like me with online dating. Uh , I don't know how I have a friend in the world because I, I talk about online dating morning, noon and night. But I'm just so passionate about it because I want people to find the love that I found after so much struggle. And I thought it was really important what you said about Leslie . You did a certain podcast about not being chosen. And she started out because it was a shock. And Gloria, you said it was almost like a death because her identity was, she was out looking for a dress. Like she really thought she had it in the bag. Right. And it was this complete bait and switch for her. And I have a lot of empathy around that. And so she went from things don't work out. And that was like her default. But then she reframed it rather quickly once she processed it. So tell us either Frank or or Gloria, tell us some tips around when you have the setbacks and you're not chosen for the people that are listening today,

Speaker 3: 11:41

We tried to give some phrases for people's experience. And this experience, we refer to it not as a failure, but an almost experience. The person is almost the right one for you. That you learned a lot about what you want in a relationship and just as important what you don't want. If indeed you come really to a place where you think you really care about someone, it's a real possibility that this would be the one. And it turns out not to be, you learn so much if you see it as a learning experience. And , and she, this is just making you a better person to , uh, to know what you want and, and define the person. So instead of being a failure experience, we say it's an almost experience. You almost found the person, but now you're much closer to knowing what that person will look like when you see them . And

Speaker 2: 12:39

I also say , uh, take a look at some of the things that you didn't like about Gary and look at that. Yes . What , because I'm sure there are things if you really drill down and look, I didn't like what this or this or, you know,

Speaker 3: 12:52

And that's as important about as what you do like, because that really helps, you know, oh no, there might be trouble down the road. We wanted to do this for a long time. We are not just into , uh, you know , uh, to couple dates we're into finding someone that we can have a , a companionship with a closeness and a connection. Because that's what I'm so excited about, is how much fun it is to be together. And people who are in relationships live approximately seven years longer than people who are single and don't have a

Speaker 2: 13:28

Relationship. And that means healthier when you're living or long ,

Speaker 3: 13:32

Healthier , and they live longer. Right.

Speaker 2: 13:33

You know, the things we recommend is , uh, to make a list, make a list of the things that you liked and put on the other side and other list of things you don't like, and really drill in what you want as an adult. It

Speaker 3: 13:46

Saves you a lot of time. Yeah. Yeah. And dating.

Speaker 2: 13:48

And dating takes time. And we like to tell people that you have to create a little space.

Speaker 3: 13:53

You've gotta create an openness and you've gotta create space so someone can come into that space.

Speaker 1: 13:58

And when you talk about Leslie, and, and I like how Frank predicted that Gary would end up with a widow even

Speaker 2: 14:07

Bet on that was say yeah , from the beginning we had ,

Speaker 3: 14:10

We had a pool going. And

Speaker 1: 14:11

I That's amazing <laugh> , and I know you don't like to brag, but you should <laugh> .

Speaker 2: 14:18

I wasn't in the pool. <laugh> . I like to keep an open mind.

Speaker 1: 14:23

I love it. I love it.

Speaker 3: 14:26

My mind made up in the beginning.

Speaker 2: 14:27

Although I did think Theresa had an in from the beginning as Oh , she did. Being a widow and being with a widower, I kind of felt like there's a little in there. 'cause there's a real empathy understanding of some of the issues.

Speaker 3: 14:41

It's a big issue.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Yeah. And it's like you can't beat the incumbent. You know, she had that connection right out of the gate.

Speaker 2: 14:48

And I also think your kids might have been a little less suspicious. You know, you do get a little pass as a widow or a widow by the family, I mean by the world. They're like, when I was dating this guy early on, everybody said, well, where did you meet him? And I said , in a grief group. And everybody's like, oh, okay.

Speaker 3: 15:06

Yes . Now that is ,

Speaker 2: 15:08

Have a good time golfing together. He is not suspicious. Yes.

Speaker 1: 15:12

Yeah. Interesting.

Speaker 3: 15:13

He's not one of those one or two or three time losers. They divorce

Speaker 2: 15:18

<laugh> .

Speaker 1: 15:18

It , it's interesting. But I don't think Leslie did anything wrong. I don't think she should look at that and say to herself, where did I fail? I think Theresa was just a better fit.

Speaker 3: 15:29

Yeah. Well, yeah. And a friend of mine who's also a psychologist, and we were talking about this, he said something that was very interesting. He says, you know what? I think there's a lot of at traction between Leslie and Gary and it seems really genuine. They're really into one another. But he said , you know what? I don't think it's gonna last. They have a totally different background.

Speaker 2: 15:53

Oh , Theresa and he, she , they got their boots together. <laugh>

Speaker 3: 15:57

<laugh> . Yeah. Originally he wasn't, he wasn't gonna say anything about anything happening in the fantasy bedroom. <laugh> .

Speaker 1: 16:06

Yeah. That was quite the shocking moment. On Ba on the Golden Bachelor.

Speaker 3: 16:10

<laugh> might have a whole chapter, it's called Through the Bedroom Door, where we talk about the whole issue of physical intimacy and where that's at for people who are a little bit older. You know, it's really different than 30 something.

Speaker 2: 16:26

My , my joke about that chapter is people aren't gonna talk about it, but they're gonna buy the book to <laugh> . Yes .

Speaker 3: 16:33

We all known <laugh> .

Speaker 1: 16:35

Well, I think it's great because you guys, you talk about the things that have to come together when you're older. Like you have to find somebody. And, and if you look at the Golden Bachelor faith was great, but she lived on a farm and she wasn't gonna leave that rancher lifestyle. And I think that definitely played in. Yeah . I I think you've got to have a similar lifestyle set up. And I look at my parents, like my dad loves to go out on the scene. My mom is more of a homebody, my boyfriend's more of a homebody. And I like to be out on the scene . Like it's kind of, you're not supposed to be exactly the same, but you have to be compatible enough.

Speaker 2: 17:12

Yep . I think that's true.

Speaker 3: 17:14

Our philosophy after working so long as therapist, is that if you're 30 something opposites attract. Okay. But when you're older, you really want to find someone who has similar backgrounds, similar ideas, similar values. 'cause you don't have a lot of time to work those differences out. The

Speaker 2: 17:35

Joking therapy is always you marry somebody, you admire the things that you don't have. Yes . And then you spend your whole life trying to change 'em more . Like you

Speaker 3: 17:44

Change to be like you <laugh>

Speaker 1: 17:46

No, it's true because I have the endless creativity and the sky is the limit. And I need more of a grounding force that someone who can pay the bills on time , you know, is not in the ether all the time. And it's a good balance. And , and I find as I got older, certain things don't matter as much. But those core values do

Speaker 2: 18:11

Those core values of kindness, loving forgiveness, you know , and

Speaker 3: 18:16

Compassion . And you really genuinely feel like the person is your best friend. Yes . Right . And you can tell them anything. They'll accept you good, bad, and ugly. You know, they're , they're there. It really is helpful if you find your best friend and then you fall in love with them. And then you have a long-term relationship.

Speaker 2: 18:35

Frank has a whole thing telling the guys about that <laugh> . Yeah . Get over trying to find that . Yeah . You're not

Speaker 3: 18:42

Dirty anymore .

Speaker 2: 18:43

Not trying to make a friend with him before you try to get him in bed . Yeah .

Speaker 3: 18:48

Might , might out if you like the person you commit to them .

Speaker 2: 18:51

<laugh> .

Speaker 1: 18:52

Well this is so interesting. So you have this charity that you set up for people because after you have lost , it's very common to lose hope . And so your goal is to restore hope once people have lost . And this age group was the forgotten group in a sense, because it has taken the world by storm. There's so much interest around the Golden Bachelor. There were 34,000 applicants. Everybody was watching it.

Speaker 3: 19:23

There's two major dynamics that Gloria and I have, have come over the years as therapists. One is that since 1900, whenever the average lifespan was 46 years of age, it's not 76. So there's 30 years more, not only 30 years, but 30 years of mostly healthy life.

Speaker 1: 19:47

Right.

Speaker 3: 19:48

And the post-war baby boom is a huge cohort of people. So those two dynamics mean that people are much more interested in what people want when they're older. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . Okay. Because more of them and they're huge. Uh , they're a huge factor economically and culturally. So there's gonna be more attention to the people who are living 30 years longer and are in the biggest cohort of people available. So there's many more of us and we're healthier and we can have a relationship after the age of 50.

Speaker 2: 20:32

And we're talking about loneliness now, which is a huge factor. Spoken about everywhere. And you know, you don't need to be lonely. No. There are ways to get out there. It

Speaker 3: 20:43

Is basically an option. But, but it does take energy. And you do have to make space. And you do have to want it because you're, you're going to meet a lot of people and not all those people are gonna be candidates. And the lucky thing is you only need one. Yep .

Speaker 1: 21:01

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Speaker 2: 22:39

Absolutely. Yes. Well , one of the important factors, one of the most important factors we talk about in the book is getting yourself a dating buddy. Getting yourself, somebody to walk the road with you to look through the pictures with you that you can call when you've had been let down when it didn't work out. Almost experienced when you've had an almost experience. Get a dating buddy, get somebody. And we don't recommend for seniors that it's your kids because there's not a lot in there for you to date for your kids. Find somebody who's either dating, we call it double dating buddy, if they're dating too . If they're also online . Online . But find yourself a dating buddy sometimes your grandkids. Yes. Or younger people, they know how to, they've been online dating. They get a lot of laughs outta your they're

Speaker 3: 23:27

They're much more sophisticated about online. Yeah,

Speaker 2: 23:29

Yeah . You know, with some people . You know, if you're not as computer savvy, you need somebody to help you fill out your profile. And, but let me say something about profiles though. We have more fun helping people fill out their profiles. <laugh> , we've done more lunches and breakfast and it is hilarious. I

Speaker 3: 23:45

Would sit around and laugh and have fun with it. And that's what we think that this needs to be fun. It can't be arduous. It can't be s so anxiety provoking. You want to have fun with it. And if you have a dating buddy, it's much more likely to be fun.

Speaker 1: 24:01

I like to call the dating buddy a wing girl and so my wing girl back in the day. Right. Yeah. You can't ask somebody who's married. You have to ask somebody who's also either a former wing girl or someone who's also dating at the time. Right. You can't go and get advice from people who have been married for 30 years. 'cause they don't understand it. Yeah,

Speaker 3: 24:20

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 24:21

Absolutely. Yeah . And they , they also don't wanna hear your story

Speaker 1: 24:23

<laugh> . No, they don't. They really don't.

Speaker 2: 24:25

That is my , I have three daughters and they're not interested in hearing that . My love life . <laugh> <laugh> .

Speaker 1: 24:32

I I hear you <laugh> . That's funny. It is entertaining. And it makes the process more doable when you have, like you say, the dating buddy, someone to bounce it off of someone to tell these stories. I told you the story about how I put my prom date in high school's mom on Tinder, and I was on the floor. She'd be talking about, she's like, forget about height. He doesn't have a prostate. Like the , the thing she would say would , I'd be on the floor laughing like so funny and that kind of stuff. They're gems because who knew that being older would bring, you know, different problems. But I think being divorced and being in my forties when I dated the craziest things were said too. They were just different things.

Speaker 2: 25:16

Well, you've had some crazy things as a divorcee. Oh my God . But I will have to say, Frank's been dating for a long time and he has met some fabulous women online.

Speaker 3: 25:26

Yeah. I , he

Speaker 2: 25:27

Really has. He's told me about some of them . I mean, they turned out to be alcoholics <laugh> , but

Speaker 3: 25:37

That was a disappointment.

Speaker 2: 25:38

But she was a fabulous woman. We won't say what she my Yeah , she did . Yeah . She was very high profile. Fantastic.

Speaker 1: 25:44

Yeah . Oh that is so funny.

Speaker 3: 25:45

Very , very accomplished. Had her PhD and I , I mean, absolutely wonderful. And , and until I invited some , some friends over to have dinner with her and after she finished a third martini, my , my friend directed at me and said, <laugh> . Right.

Speaker 2: 26:01

That's

Speaker 1: 26:02

So funny. <laugh> , once you hit past the two martinis, you know, you're , you're head in trouble. <laugh> ,

Speaker 2: 26:11

What

Speaker 1: 26:11

Do you think some of the challenges that dating as a senior present? And I like how you say you've gotta get in the right head space. And when you walk into that bar you're dating. So what age did you go on silver singles, Gloria?

Speaker 2: 26:28

Oh, I was 80, 82. <laugh> . Yes. <laugh> .

Speaker 1: 26:33

So at 82 you're out going to a bar to have a date and that's when it becomes pretty real.

Speaker 2: 26:40

Well, I think the challenges, frankly for a , an older person are your family. Uh, it is a beginning challenge. One of the early challenges, you know, just getting on internet if you're not savvy is a challenge in and of itself and filling out your profile. But once you get into it, we found that a lot of people in their sixties, seventies are the challenges that with their kids, because their kids, there's not a lot, a whole lot in it for their , your kids to have you date. Because they worry about financial days . I

Speaker 3: 27:13

Think they're worried that you're gonna be

Speaker 2: 27:14

<crosstalk> . Yeah . We're getting , you're

Speaker 3: 27:16

Worried that, that you needy and so therefore you're gonna let anyone into your life. And it may not be a good person. It's not all bad on the part of your kids, but they're not gonna , there's not gonna be as supportive. We've certainly found that over and

Speaker 2: 27:32

Over again. Well , when you question it , like we had one story in the book about how a woman was excited about dating. She's in her seventies and her son said, great. You know, why don't you do it, mom? But then when she called him up and said, oh, I'm not sure about this guy. He, you know, he did this or that, then the son's saying, oh mom, maybe you shouldn't be doing this . Yeah, yeah. You know, so mom,

Speaker 3: 27:53

This is not for you.

Speaker 2: 27:54

They're not brewing you on and saying take the time. 'cause you, it takes courage. It does take courage. It takes courage for the first time to step out and,

Speaker 3: 28:02

And if you haven't dated in a long time, it takes a while to get into and gain those skills of interviewing and finding the right person for you and being able Yeah. To check out these people. 'cause we talk in the book about how to check out people Yeah . And make sure that you are getting someone who is who they say they are.

Speaker 2: 28:25

I hate to even talk about scams because that's, you know, if we do presentations and if you say the word scam, your whole presentation is people's horror stories. And I'm like, Hey, people have always tried to sell women and men who were widowed or or divorced a new roof for their house or fortunes for their cars . Oh , crazy . That have <laugh> . You know , I mean, don't focus on that so much. Be smart. I agree.

Speaker 3: 28:52

You used to be a good consumer. And that's one of the things that we talk about is how can you be a good consumer, good consumer at in this age of online and, and meeting people. And sometimes people are not gonna be in your area. Especially for, for rural people it's more difficult because there it is a numbers game. Yes . And , uh, the numbers are smaller, then they're gonna take longer to find a person who's gonna be compatible with

Speaker 2: 29:21

You. The important thing is to see people as soon as possible. Mm-Hmm . In person . Do not ever, ever give money,

Speaker 3: 29:29

Ever get money. No.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Right . If you do those two things, you rule out a huge world of people who take

Speaker 3: 29:36

Advantage you . Most of the problems that

Speaker 2: 29:37

We see, you know, one of the things that the Bachelorette , uh, golden Bachelor have talked to us about, we asked Joan about it and a couple of other women we've interviewed, they have had a huge number of people try to get in touch with them. Interesting. Out in the environment. Yeah . Huge numbers, numbers, numbers. So I will say this, you dating apps do do a bit of screening. They may not screen as much as you thought, but if you look at the world at large, if you get your name out there for some reason, you're gonna have a lot of weird people out in the environment. And the dating apps do screen a little bit. And then if you wanna do a a concierge service, they screen even more. But we found that the concierge services often get them from the day

Speaker 3: 30:23

App . They get their recruits from online <laugh>

Speaker 2: 30:25

Because we know the people who've done the concierge service and they've same people online, <laugh>.

Speaker 1: 30:31

Yeah . They're all always online. Like, I I always say that too, Mike , do you wanna pay for this? Because they're still online, but a lot of people don't want to take the time to go through.

Speaker 2: 30:41

Yeah. You can do the concierge and they will screen it even further down, but it's pretty expensive.

Speaker 1: 30:45

Right? It is. So there's no easy way to get there. But once you get there, it's definitely worth the time. Think

Speaker 3: 30:54

Of it that you're developing a skill, you're developing a skill of being able to discern as quickly as possible so you don't waste their time or you don't waste your time to find a person that's going to be compatible with you. And like we said, the honest experience is , rather than be stepping to fear, is that gives you so much information so that you're about yourself , consumer yourself. You're more likely to find the right person

Speaker 2: 31:20

And you can find out about yourself by going to coffee with people. Find

Speaker 3: 31:23

Out a lot about yourself . <laugh>.

Speaker 2: 31:25

<laugh> .

Speaker 1: 31:26

Yeah. So that's a good thing to talk about is the fear. So fear is gonna be the one detriment and the one thing that holds you back with online dating, no matter what age you are for sure.

Speaker 3: 31:38

Yes. Yeah . It doesn't take too many bad experiences to turn you off. Totally. And just about the time you're becoming a better consumer, you stop. And that very sad. We hate to hear the stories, but we hear a lot of them about people said , well, I tried online dating, but you know, I, I just don't think that's for me.

Speaker 2: 32:01

Yeah. But we've gotten a lot of 'em to go back online. Yeah . We

Speaker 3: 32:04

Have .

Speaker 1: 32:05

You have .

Speaker 3: 32:07

Yeah . Is this becoming you're good at ? You're

Speaker 2: 32:09

Not a failure, you're a pro.

Speaker 3: 32:11

Look , we're, we're good at it, <laugh>,

Speaker 1: 32:14

But I think your energy, you're so infectious and that's who you wanna look to. You've had success, but you just had this never quit attitude. And I think there comes a point in your life and there's been a lot of people who have come on your podcast where they have an elderly parent or , or a sick cat or they're always in the caregiver role. But you still shouldn't allow whatever's happening in your life because life is always hectic and there's always something happening, but you have right now.

Speaker 2: 32:47

Yeah. One thing that I get a little bit worried about are the women who are widows may be even younger widows who are not going to date until their kids are out college. Right. And I really , uh, and I've seen that and I've seen the disappointment when their kids get married and move away and don't spend that much time with them anymore. You know, h how you put your life on hold from having a another love because you're gonna do, devote yourself to your kids and they've lost their dad or their mother and so you can't do anything. Well my comment is the greatest thing you can give your bereaved kids is a happy parent.

Speaker 1: 33:25

Yeah. How common would you say that that is?

Speaker 2: 33:28

It's pretty common. I ran in , I ran into it on an interview Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody who's, you know, gonna devote her life to her I'll date when they get out of college or out of high school. It's always, you know, I'll date when they're a little older. You know, I've gotta devote myself to them now. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 33:47

One of the excitements that certainly Gloria and I have found just through the kind of accident that we decided to write a book is it's hard for us to go anywhere and sit down and talk with someone where it doesn't come up at , oh, my mother is starting <laugh>. I even think about dating. What do you , what do you think? I I mean it is, I'm

Speaker 2: 34:12

Constant

Speaker 3: 34:12

Conversation. It's an amazing conversation .

Speaker 2: 34:14

Or I met my partner online or you know , it's just been Exactly . I think we ran around in our dating c we

Speaker 3: 34:21

<laugh> I think it's written on our forehead. <laugh> somehow getting at the conversation about it .

Speaker 1: 34:29

Now, has silver singles approached you? Do they know about your story? I think it's so fascinating. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:35

They're actually gonna feature us in January on their site . Yeah.

Speaker 3: 34:39

They , they , they were looking for ways for us to work together because my picture is, I think the dating apps will love our book because we help them be more successful. They, you know ,

Speaker 1: 34:54

Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 34:54

The people that go on an app, I think if they read our book, they're gonna be so much more successful. It's the people who don't have dating buddies who don't understand the process and know that, hey, this isn't a failure. You got valuable information when this didn't work. Absolutely . This particular meet . Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 35:14

Give , give yourself a pat on the back

Speaker 3: 35:16

For courage. Yeah , exactly. So I , I I think that the apps are going to be probably pretty happy with our book . Well,

Speaker 2: 35:24

People need to understand that it does take time. You can have other people do it , concierge services, that kind of thing, but they'll be getting 'em off the same place that you're getting them and that, you know, my uncle used to say he was a great fisherman and he would say, I said, how did you catch so many fish? And he said, I go to where the fish are. That's right. And online is where the people are. <laugh> . Yeah .

Speaker 3: 35:50

And , and for women especially, it's 50 50, you know, I , life is not 50 50 at our age, but online 50% are male, 50% are women. It's a much better place for women to go fishing. <laugh>.

Speaker 2: 36:06

That's right. 80% of women will be widowed in their lifetime.

Speaker 1: 36:10

It's a crazy number.

Speaker 2: 36:11

So you have to decide if you wanna be in relationship. My mother, many years ago , uh, when she was , uh, 78, she read in the paper that there was an obituary that her boyfriend from college wife , that wife had died <laugh> . So she called him and had coffee with them and they were together for the next 10 years. Wow.

Speaker 1: 36:31

You hear those stories.

Speaker 2: 36:32

That was pretty , she

Speaker 3: 36:34

Was very clever. <laugh> , to give her credit.

Speaker 2: 36:37

My mother used to say, if you wanna remarry Carrie Soup <laugh>, I love

Speaker 1: 36:45

That. But you must have learned something from her because you realized after 60 years after you lost your husband, you were now you had joined this 80%, like you said, and look at how your world opened up.

Speaker 2: 36:58

Yeah. And it's been fabulous. You really could teach me a lesson that there was life after. Yeah . She spouse. Yeah . Even after all those years, I think she was married for 58.

Speaker 3: 37:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:09

Wow. <laugh> and , and Frank, you didn't even realize how lonely you were.

Speaker 3: 37:14

Yeah . You know, it was a real surprise to me. Uh, 'cause I had a busy practice and I , I thought

Speaker 2: 37:21

I It's a sculptor also. What? You're a sculptor.

Speaker 3: 37:24

Yeah. And I, you know, I was working and my house was a studio and also a gallery. I didn't realize how lonely I was. And then when my aunt passed away, and she was really one of my last relatives that was still around, and I thought, oh my God, what's ahead of me? Well, I think I'll probably go to a senior community and maybe the find

Speaker 2: 37:49

Another woman, <laugh> I'll find ,

Speaker 3: 37:51

I'll find a woman there. I guess <laugh> , I might have better pickings than there in a senior community .

Speaker 2: 37:57

<laugh> .

Speaker 1: 37:58

That's so funny. When I think about Gary, the Golden Bachelor, he was married for 43 years. And I don't like the negative blowback on this relationship because the people don't understand the data that it's very common for a man to get remarried rather quickly after loss

Speaker 3: 38:15

Much faster for men , uh, they're much more likely because men have a hard time with dependency. They're really dependent many times on their wife, but they don't wanna admit it. And then if the wife leaves or divorces or passes away, their dependency becomes really upfront and they want to immediately get away from that loneliness and that isolation that many of them get into. I mean, I used to see a lot of men in , in my practice who really in a sense said, I had no idea how much I miss having someone. Yeah. So they're much more likely to jump faster than some of the women. The women have more friends. These guys, once they go into retirement, especially, they lose a lot of their male contact .

Speaker 1: 39:06

I interviewed a guy, Daniel Harold , and when he got divorced, he was shocked that he spent all his time being a dad, a husband, and focusing on his career. And then he woke up getting divorced and had no one. And so that was what started him on this journey of being the divorced dad and starting these divorce groups because he found out he didn't really have that many guy friends. And that's really common.

Speaker 3: 39:35

Uh , well, men are more dependent, but they don't realize the dependency they have on the , the woman in their life. And , uh, if they lose that woman, oh my gosh, they're

Speaker 1: 39:47

Lost.

Speaker 3: 39:48

Sudden they realize how dependent they were because they were an illusion that they weren't dependent. They thought , oh, I , I'm just fine. I'm not fine in general.

Speaker 1: 39:58

Now, what would your advice be for someone who says to you, I had my time, my time is set sail . I had love for a long time. I had more than many. How do you change their mindset that it's not being greedy, it's that having love in your life is a benefit?

Speaker 3: 40:19

Well, I, you know, I just say to them, give yourself as much time as you need to grieve the relationship you lost, either through divorce or through death. Just see how comfortable loneliness feels. Mm . Let that feeling. Just be aware of it. See how , see how you feel If you like being alone. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> all the power to you. But most likely you're gonna find after a while, once the grieving kind of goes into the background, you might find that the loneliness doesn't feel very good. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> .

Speaker 2: 40:58

Mm-Hmm . I , I think that's important. You don't wanna argue with people. Is there people?

Speaker 3: 41:01

You don't have to. There are people . Just let them , their experience. Just make them aware. Stay in touch, you know , stay in touch with your feelings. How are you doing? Whatever. And I have to admit, I was outta touch. Gloria meeting her. I just said, wow, okay. I don't want, I don't want, I love my life. I was having a lot of fun in many ways. However, I really miss having someone to cuddle with. Yeah ,

Speaker 2: 41:28

Yeah , yeah . I know. Tell me they're dogs enough.

Speaker 3: 41:32

<laugh>,

Speaker 2: 41:33

You know ,

Speaker 3: 41:33

Well , those are very loyal <laugh> , but they don't cuddle all that well.

Speaker 1: 41:39

<laugh> . Right, right. You see people kind of throw in the towel though . They're like, I like my wine. I like my yoga. I

Speaker 2: 41:46

I know. You know what? And I think it's fine. I, you know, people , you know, you

Speaker 3: 41:51

Just want people to be happy and , and just stay in touch though, because it's easy to not be in touch, even if you have a background of talking with people about being in touch. I mean, I, I really, I was clueless about it . It's

Speaker 2: 42:08

Really so biological and so , you know, touching people and being close and it's , uh, it's not just mental. You can't think your way out

Speaker 3: 42:19

Of it. Yeah. I had my dog, I had my sculpture and I had my practice . You did ? Yeah . No , but it wasn't enough . And it's

Speaker 1: 42:25

Healing like that physical touch and that caring . I had an emergency dental surgery and this sweet nurse came and grabbed my hand and I was like, I couldn't believe it. I thought this human connection is medicine. Yeah .

Speaker 2: 42:40

It really is. There's something called Galvan spin response , skin response, where touching people's skin really makes a difference. One of the things that they say , uh, in Ivan was a nurse in my prior life, and they said, we always said high tech , high touch. And this was years ago. Yeah . So we're forgetting that high tech , high touch.

Speaker 1: 43:01

Well, I'm so touched by the two of you. I love you so much. I'm so excited about your book. Tell us where they can find out about your podcast. I know your book, the proceeds are going to go to your charity. You're going to have to come back on when the book comes out, because I, I wanna see all the people that you we're so

Speaker 3: 43:20

Excited about . This is the , the cover book ,

Speaker 1: 43:23

<laugh> . I love it. Open to love. Beautiful.

Speaker 2: 43:26

Seeing you're dating. Well, you can get it . You can pre re pre-order it at our foundation open to hope. You can go to the Golden Dating Doctors and visit us and pre-order the book and it'll be out on Valentine's

Speaker 3: 43:39

Day's Day day .

Speaker 1: 43:40

I love it.

Speaker 2: 43:41

Again, all the proceeds go to our foundation open to hope. Our mission is helping people find hope after loss, and giving a voice to grief and recovery. And you can find us@opentohope.com. And we have a very robust site for you. It's all free. Yes. Everything is free. We have everything tagged for content. You can talk any

Speaker 3: 44:01

Kind of , and we do have a podcast on there about , uh, dating buddies. And I , I really think after all the stuff that I, I really do genuinely like the book, of course, <laugh> , uh, but the Dating Buddy thing is, I think some of the most important information that you need. Not do this alone. You need to do it with your little support group and a dating buddy. We talk about who makes the best dating buddies, you know, what kind of support do you generally need and what do you wanna look for? Not only in the partner that you're looking for, but in your dating buddy. 'cause your success a lot of times will depend on your dating buddy or

Speaker 2: 44:43

Your ring man , as you said . Yeah. Yeah . Of course. They're gonna wanna read through the bedroom door. <laugh> <laugh> .

Speaker 1: 44:58

Well, you two should stop having so much fun. This is so

Speaker 4: 45:01

<laugh> ,

Speaker 1: 45:02

So hilarious. Well, I had the best time with you and I was so excited for what's to come and all good things. And thank you so much for your time, and please come back. Oh , thank

Speaker 2: 45:11

You. Thank you. That was lots

Speaker 1: 45:12

Of fun. It was so fun. And for now, this week, shot at Love dating tips that are inspired by my guest , the Golden Dating Doctors, Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Frank Powers. Number one, make a list of what you like and don't like when it comes to being in a relationship. Identifying what works for you and what doesn't will save you a lot of time. Number two, get clear of what you're looking for in a partner. In Gloria's case, playing golf was very important to her. So she put in her golf handicap in her profile. Number three, get yourself a wing girl or a wingman or what Gloria and Frank call a dating buddy. Having a dating buddy will increase your chance of success and help keep your spares high when dating. I hope you find some of my tips helpful this week. This is which Shot at Love is here for, to help you find love, keep up the commitment to yourself and commit to helping someone else by sharing this podcast. Stay safe and stay tuned for more episodes. And if you like this show, please subscribe and leave a five star review. I'm Carrie Brett , and we'll see you next time.