Moms Don't Have Time To Date, With Moms Don't Have Time To Read Books Podcaster Zibby Owens

I'm Carrie Brett, and this is shot at LA. I'm so excited about this. Week's guest, the Owens who's superhuman and such an inspiration. At age 40, she found herself crying in the shower, divorced with four kids until her life started over. When she found love with Kyle Owens, a former tennis pro and film producer, then later married him on a tennis court. During those years, her therapist gave me the advice to read a book. When she felt lonely, when her kids were with their dad, Zippy not only took that advice, but created the podcast. Mums don't have time to read books. One of the top literary podcasts in the world, and in three years interviewed 600 authors. This month, she published the quarantine anthology moms don't have time to, uh, move in collection of excellent essays. When we come back, ZB will show us that we do have time to do anything we want, especially finding love. You won't wanna miss it sustains you.

[inaudible].

Debbie Owens is the creator of the award-winning podcast. Moms don't have time to read books. She was named NYC's most powerful book influencer by vulture Oprah Winfrey's O magazine named her one of the top literary podcasts twice during the quarantine Zippy hosted two Instagram live author talk shows launched an online magazine with essays called we found time and started Zippy's virtual book club. ZB has recommended books for the Washington post. Good morning, America and real simple. She has also contributed to parents, Marie Claire red book, and New York times online she's appeared on CBS this morning. Good morning, America, the BBC, ABC, ABC seven eyewitness news. Good

Day, LA good day, DC. Good

Day Dallas. She has two children's books coming out in 2022 plus a second anthology coming out in November of 2021 called mums. Also don't have time to Zippy recently launched an Instagram community and a podcast called moms. Don't have time to lose weight. She's a graduate of Yale university and Harvard business school. Welcome.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

I'm so excited about this. I'm really glad that we had a deadline because

Your bio and what you've done is, is

Believable. You're just a high achieving person. And I'm glad that I had that deadline because

It was like, this is so much research. I'm sorry. He could've, he could've just, you know, you know, made something up and it would have been fine. Well, I just,

When I first wrote you on Instagram, I think I said something like, hello, have you interviewed 600 people in a year? You're like, LOL. It was three years. I'm like, all right, now I feel a little bit better because I literally thought you did that.

So this

Week's episode, I going to focus on how we can not feel lonely. And I think we should all follow Zippy's lead and do what we can to help others who are suffering. So Zippy, you are busy, but aside from being busy, you are a force for good, which I absolutely love during the pandemic. You went into overdrive to shine the light on authors and new books coming out that lost their ability to be out promoting and selling their books. Your support was critical at the time when bookstores were shut down and, and book tours canceled, it was also important that you published your new book, a quarantine anthology at a time we needed to connect more than ever Zippy. How do you do it all?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if people are now starting to ask me this a lot and I don't know. I based basically I do stuff all the time. So if I do it, I'm like all in and I do it start to finish. And then I move on. Like, I was literally just making cake pops with my son downstairs before we got on the phone and I'm like, I have 40 minutes. We're going to finish making the K-cups. And then I come up and I do this and I like only focused on this. And then I move on to the next. So I don't know. I just have so much energy because everything I'm doing is coming from a place of like passion and joy. So when you're really excited about something, you do more of it without even thinking about it. And that's sort of what it's like for me. Like if you're, I don't know, I'm trying to think of other hobbies or something that you can be like, you love photography, right? Like you probably don't even think about it. You just like fit it in. Cause you love it. So I don't know.

True. It's true because I ran a full-time business and then I also worked for the leading magazine in Boston. And people would say, you've put so much time into these covers, Carrie. You not making the money for the time. And I just had to say, well, it's my hobby

To buy it because

I did love it. And I still love it, but I love podcasting. And that's why I think I'm so excited for you because I just, I don't know how you do as many episodes as you do. That's fascinating to me. I don't know how you read as much as you do, but it just shows that you do have that passion and drive that you're just super excited about the authors that you interview. And, but this all kind of happened right around the time that you fell in love. Right?

You decided yes. Yes. Um, yes. It's no accident at all. In fact, the other day I was like, you know, I'm basically just, I've been, I'm becoming my husband's personality. Like I feel like I, you know, when like you're with somebody so much, you kind of adopt some of their mannerisms or something. I was like, what if I'm accidentally? My husband who I think is like the coolest person alive, right? Um, yes, I, when I got remarried and basically when I fell in love again, after my divorce, um, I tapped into sort of the part of myself that I hadn't been in touch with in quite some time and like all this creative energy and, and all of it came like pouring out. And it was my husband, Kyle who encouraged me to do all of that. In fact, she still does like every day. So I, I don't think I would be. I mean, there's just no way I wouldn't have been able to do any of it. And he was the one originally who was like, why don't you take all your parenting essays and make them into a book? And I was like, moms don't have time to read books. And that just like started the whole thing. Well,

You know, I was listening to Ellen Hildebrands episode on your show and I thought, wow, she has so many books. And she's so well known in our area and all over, but her first book got rejected. And what if she stopped? You know, like what if she stopped at that first rejection? And I actually wrote a book myself and I haven't published it yet, but the book led me to the podcasts. So the same thing happened to me. Yeah. And so I am trying to teach myself to be a writer and I'm learning and it's been, I've been rewriting and writing these podcasts every week has been helping me too. So you can do anything and you can find the time for anything you really want to do if you want to do a bad enough. But one of the episodes that you were on, you said you asked people questions of things that, you know, you're interested in and you're always interested in like people's backstory. So I'm interested in how you were not trying to find love, but you ended up, you know, essentially marrying your son's tennis pro.

Well, he wasn't even really my son's friend. Okay. So what happened is I had been married for 10 years and I'm not going to talk about that relationship for many reasons, but let's just, so let me just say that, like, you know, like most relationships that end in divorce, obviously there was some flaw to it, right? So I had been married for 10 years and, um, I had just had my fourth child and nothing just to preface the story and not make it sound like I'm a horrendous person, nothing happened at this meeting. I'm just going to describe the meeting only a meeting. Um, but there's no judgment here anyways. I was just, you know, not to say, um, well, anyway, I had twins at the time who were seven and a half and I had a 17 month old daughter as well. And I had just had another baby. And my last two kids were blessings, but unexpected blessings, um, ones I badly wanted, but I just didn't think I would be able to have more kids. So, um, I had this baby, it was two weeks old and I had to get my older son out of the house because you know, it's seven and a half year old boy. He just had to get his energy out. And I had been making him play tennis because I love tennis. And I was like, you guys have to play tennis the dead of winter. There's no way else, you know, he loved football, but, but where was he going to play football aside from like in our basement. So, um, I dragged him kicking and screaming essentially to play tennis. And the only way I got him there is because he loved his teacher so much, this, this man in Fabio who half the time, just like, you know, tried to pound him with tennis balls while he ran around and they just had fun together. And frankly, that was fine. You know, he was on the court, he was doing something, he was getting his energy out. So when we got there that day, the fovea wasn't there. And instead of this other man sitting there and he was like, Hey, I'm Kyle, I'm going to be teaching Owen's lesson today. And I was like, what do you mean? And I was, and I'm thinking to myself, like for anybody out there who has kids and who has ever pushed them to do something they don't want to do with like one positive. And then the one positive ends, you know, you're like in serious trouble. So I was, I was not happy about that. I was like, no one called me what's going on? And, uh, anyway, he took my son out onto the tennis court begrudgingly and I was meanwhile, so excited just to sit for 30 minutes and like read a newspaper, um, and just have that time, um, which I had been like counting down to and like preparing to save her. And so they go out onto the court and there's like, this glass kind of partitions, you can see the people on the court. And about 10 minutes later, the receptionist is like, he's, you know, Kyle's calling you from the court. And I was like, what? And I was, and then I thought, Oh, my son already got in trouble. What happened? So I have to like get up and like go into the bubble with like all the, all these tennis balls, like everywhere. And I go on the court and he was like, Oh, you know, Hey, I'm your son. He, he really doesn't like tennis. And I was like, yeah, I know. And he's like, yeah, he really likes football. I was like, I know if I don't know my son, I was like, I know that. And he's like, well, I didn't really think he should be taking tennis lessons. And I was like, well, I do. And he's like, well, he's not going to be taking tennis lessons for me. Right. And I was like, what? Like, who are you? What on earth? Anyway? So I was nothing but annoyed. And, um, then I realized that like paid for all these lessons and all this stuff, and Bobby was going to be gone. Anyway, it came up that like maybe eventually I would have to take some of these lessons. And then we started playing tennis. So he ended up not really being his teacher, but then he ended up being my teacher,

Such a nice story. It really is. I love it. And it gives so many people hope who have multiple children and are looking to start over, you know, it's a hard place to be. And I know my whole world opened up when I joined Tinder and created shot, you know, led to creating shot at love. And I love how you were giving a speech at your kid's school about how you found your voice through writing. And there were thankfully, and I know there's like, just like the blessing that you met, Kyle, like that piece was supposed to be there so that you could be this superhuman person that you are, and literally save the literary world. Single-handedly um, so it was all part of the plan, but I, I love that when you got up to speak at the school, there was a best selling author in the audience. And she was like, we gotta talk, like you have something here. She said, you know, you should start a podcast. And at the time you weren't even on Instagram and you only, you only knew two authors. I think it's so great that you found a way to get in touch with Andre Agassi, because you had just said, sat next to him on a plane. And he came on as one of, one of your first guests.

It was actually, yeah, it was my tennis. It was so Kyle, my husband used to teach with amended Murphy Jensen, who is a French open champion and doubles from a while ago. And he had just sat next to Andre Agassi on the plane. So yeah, I was like, yeah. And I overheard Murphy telling Kyle, yeah, I guess he was next to me on the plane. And from the background, I was like, you think he'd want to be on my podcast. And he was like, I can ask. And then he said, yes, I couldn't believe it. Wow.

You took that chance. You know, I had a funny story. One time I was flying to Florida and I was going off at the time to my boyfriend. I was saying, you know, Ben Affleck just got robbed of best director. And I was so mad and I ha I knew Ben and Matt from, well, they're from Boston, but I had covered their premiere. And I had done some work for them during Goodwill hunting. And I was like, I'm so mad about this. Like Ben isn't acting right now. And he's trying to make it go as a director. And all of a sudden, the woman next to me, she, she goes to close her library book and it says, Damon, I'm like, are you related to Matt? Damon? She's like Amazon, we're going to Matt's house right now. And Kyle, Kyle Matt's brother is sitting right in front of you and Kyle gets up and starts laughing. He's like, hi, nice to meet you. I was mortified, but it was really funny. And I was like, well, tell him that. I said, hi. Um, until Ben, he got robbed. You just never, you never know who you're sitting next to, sometimes on a plane. And you never know, who's going to say yes to your podcast. Um, like you and have this amazing conversation. You seem like a big risk taker. Like you said earlier in this podcast, you just go for it. You don't overthink it. And I think there's a lot to be learned there, especially for online dating. I know you didn't online date, but I want to use the analogy of you always have a book in hand, you know, you are in with four children, always waiting, whether it's at the doctor's office or anywhere, you know, in the car, wherever they're going, you can read a few pages. And I feel the same as for these dating apps that mothers working mothers, they'll say, I just don't have time to do that, but you can find time. And I think you're perfect. Um, you know, someone who can show us away with that,

You know, I don't do them really as risks because they don't seem like there's not a lot of downside to some of the things that I try. Like, what's the, what's the downside. Like I try to, I I'm like, well, let's start this podcast. Let's start another podcast and see if that works. And then if it doesn't, I'm like, all right, that's not working like moving on. Right. So I, I don't know. It doesn't feel risky to me. Um, I dunno, it doesn't feel risky well, and it's not like, it's not like I had a whole big strategy that involved taking risks. Like I just really like doing what feels right next and then seeing if it works or seeing if it doesn't work, which is probably not the best way to run a business. I don't know. I'm just sort of doing whatever. I mean, that sounds, I mean, I think it through obviously, and I'm like analyze it somewhat, but I don't know. It's more like how it feels.

Right. And you don't need to figure it all out. Like I listened to your episode that you interviewed your dad because my, I followed in my dad's footsteps and he's a photographer as well. And he's my barometer. And I've learned an awful lot from my dad. So I was interested to hear the conversation with your dad and your dad said in business, you have the vision. And if the, you know, you stay with that vision and then you kind of, if the vision is strong, then you can figure it out. You know? So the idea you had that idea, moms don't have time to read books. And that way you could review a book or we didn't have to miss out on all these wonderful authors, especially now at COVID because of this podcast. So I'm someone who actually loves to read. And I love to read as a child, but my eyes are so tired at the end of the day from shooting and editing that I've moved away from. I listened to a ton of audio books, but reading your book, cause I haven't actually read a book, physically held it in my hand. I took those words in differently. I really did. Especially someone who's trying to learn how to write or teaching myself how to write the structure and just seeing those physical words printed. I know you're someone who favors for the book versus audio.

Right? I love audio too. And this book will be an audio book. Um, it's, it's the rights have been sold. It's just like taking a little while. Um, I love audio books too. I think they're great. I just read so quickly that I don't like spending the time on audiobooks, but that that's a lie because when I'm out like walking my dog or I'm taking a walk or something, if I ever do those things, um, regularly, I do listen to audio books, but if I'm at home, I'd rather just read a hard copy.

Well, I think it's so good because it keeps you sharp. It keeps you learning. And I, that's why I listened to audio books because I want to listen to every dating book. There is, I love researching relationships and um, interpersonal relationship skills because I, I don't know. I see great value in it and it interests me. So before COVID you thought you were busy, you were recording fine.

You are,

You were recording five podcasts a week preparing and researching. And when the pandemic hit, you doubled down on helping the literary community by bringing authors to readers. And you mentioned in your book that your goal was to help full stop. I know your book is helping others and healing. You brainstormed about all the things mums don't have time to do, like eat, have sex, workout, breathe, especially during lockdown. What have you learned about yourself and lockdown?

Um, first of all, again, your research is amazing. You have like, there's not much, I'm going to start coming to you for when I can't remember things about myself. Um, uh, what have I learned during lockdown? Oh my gosh. Well, I've learned. Yeah. I mean, well, I've learned on different fronts in terms of my kids. I've learned that I can basically ignore them and they'll be fine. No I've learned. Um, I basically in every instance learned to let go a little more. I used to be really tightly wound in terms of planning and, um, you know, I have this mix of sort of spontaneity, but also wanting to plan. So what I ended up doing all the time is making tons of plans that I then changed when COVID had, I realized, you know, like everyone else, my entire calendar got wiped out. And all of that time I spent planning was truly a complete waste. Not like maybe it's a waste, it was a waste. And I realized how much time I spend planning. So, so now I don't do that as much. I just made my first plan for, for the end of July. And now it's February. And I'm like, maybe we'll take that trip. We'll see. Who knows? I don't know. So I've learned to be more easy going in terms of, or it started easy going. It's more just like letting go of the pretense of, of some of the things, right? Like how to spend my time and what I want to spend my time on has become very, very clear to me and how much I enjoy what I do, how when I try one thing, another couple of things become really clear. How thing keeps leading to

Another, how much it makes me feel good to connect with so many people and to help them connect to each other and doing so through books is one way. But it's the connection for me. That's like the most exciting part of it. All right. I don't know. I could go on and on

You're a book everyone's suffering within their home, whether they're alone or have families and those walls are coming in on people, but it was so nice to be able to read essays of the struggles that all these different authors had. I just thought if it does, I was able to see with your book, like how touching and how I didn't feel alone and how connected I felt to all of these writers, even though I didn't know them. I mean, there was one writer in the book who took David Sedaris, his class.

And

I took it as well, the master class. And I like would watch him at night. Like I was a child listening to Mr. Rogers or something

Like hanging on to every

Word, but I love David Sedaris. And I L I get his dark humor and his self-deprecation and I just really gravitate to his writing style. And it's so amazing that you interviewed him and I listened to that episode on your show and it was great, but how amazing, cause you ever think in your life that you'd be able to interview someone like David?

Nope. It was the coolest thing, right? I actually, yeah, it was just so cool.

Cool. So I actually wrote an essay inspired by David Sedaris and I thought I was like the only person who ever did that. And it was like, okay, am I going to just, you know, paper, a birdcage with this? Like, is anyone ever going to read this? But you know, I could connect to different people who had also written an essay about him, you know? So it was like, I'm not the only random

Person out there. So he actually, after the interview, he mailed me a postcard that he had handwritten to say, thank you for my interview. So I framed it. And so now it's like right here next to me framed. Cause I'm like, that's the coolest thing that's ever happened to me. Are you kidding? So crazy. I would have framed that too. Yeah, you should put that on Instagram. People would be like, this is so cool. So how has

Your life change when you found the right partner? And you can tell just daily that he is the one for you. I have to read a few sentences that you wrote about your husband and the acknowledgements, because I thought it was so sweet to Kyle for literally everything. The love, the shark tank episodes, the emojis during the Instagram lives, the hugs, the stepfather, the othering, the meals you've fed my body and soul in way since the day I met you. I am me because of you. You are it. I literally, well, I watch shark tank too, my boyfriend. So I just, those words are beautiful. So how has your life changed since you fell in love at age 40?

Oh, um, I just feel like, you know, I don't want to make it sound like we have this absolutely perfect situation. We still like have tips every so often and, um, get annoyed or whatever. It's just like anybody. So, but he's a hundred percent the right person, but I just didn't want to, like, I don't want people to feel like there's this like unrealistic model being set that like, everything's perfect. It's real, it's real life, it's real life. And um, but it's been great. How have I changed? Like since falling in love again at 40, I have changed in every way. I feel like I had really lost myself there for a long time and I didn't feel like the real knee was ever going to come back. And I had accepted a lot about that change as something that I just had to live with. Right. Like, okay, this is who I've become. And that's the end of my story. And I'm just going to go along with life like this. And, you know, I was in a place where I would wake up and just start counting down to when I could go to bed again at night, you know, it's like not a good place. Um, and, uh, which I'm sure so many people can relate to, especially parents of young kids, but many people in general. But, um, you know, I was staying at home with my kids for a long time. And as evidenced by how much I can actually accomplish, when I put my mind to it, it's like I had all that energy, not being used really only being used to like schedule my twins, naps and things like that, which not to say there's anything wrong with that. Just, it wasn't enough for me. Um, it wasn't fulfilling. Like it wasn't like checking the boxes and what I needed to feel fulfilled and happy with myself. And then when I found the right relationship, it changed me. It, it changed that. I meant that what I said about Kyle, because he just he's being with the right person has allowed me to like be built and like it's changed my life. It sounds ridiculous. But it's like, I really feel like, you know, on like a cellular level, I just having someone who supports you and like, it he'll like cook. He cooks, he like no one had cooked for me, you know, except for one babysitter, one meal on my birthday. She like this one babysitter made me pancakes. And I remember crying thinking, gosh, like, no one's done this. Like, um, you know, and now all of a sudden like home makes meals all the time and he'll like, bring me a, like a dice to bring her like my favorite dessert or like, he's just so thoughtful. And I'm pretty thoughtful too, but I had just never expected to get anything like that ever back. Um, so it's just amazing. I just feel so seen, I guess. Um, and that makes me have the energy and the confidence to do so much because like I have someone here in my corner being like, you've got this and not only that, but he has like a zillion, amazing ideas all the time. So, you know, everything I do, I'm like, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? And he gives me ideas and I generally take them. So

That's great. That's great. Well, you mentioned in your book that when the pandemic happened, I wanted just to go back to talking about, you know, so you are with Kyle and he, he does support you every day and he backs anything that you want to do. You know, if you're like, okay, you felt very frightened. And everyone did when the pandemic first hit. And you mentioned in your book that you didn't have a medical degree, you couldn't stop the pandemic that you couldn't make your life or anyone else's go back to normal, but you could launch an online magazine and get these essays out as quick as possible. And you believe that stories unite us and remind us that we're not alone. How gratifying was it for you to learn that we found time essays were helping people feel less anxious, more connected and less lonely.

It felt amazing. It was the essays and the Instagram lives. I see, even on Instagram today, somebody I posted about the fact that I have a second anthology coming out in November and somebody new commented and said, you know, you've got me through the pandemic and I listened to you every day, like on my walks and this and that. And I'm, I'm so excited for this book and now your book is good. And I'm just like, that's amazing. Like that makes me feel amazing that these conversations that I have at my desk that I really enjoy, right. That changed my day in my life. And like fulfill me on a very deep level. Other people also are enjoying it's just the craziest. So it makes me feel great that I could be a friend to people in their ears during like the worst time in life and maybe give them joy, maybe help them think about something or, you know, just make them feel more connected. And it, it feels great. It feels so great. Um,

Awesome. It's worth all the hard work it's or somewhere you said, like I'm not at home eating bond bonds. And that's what I say to my dad too. Um, that quote, cause I thought that was funny because I do work a lot and, but at least it's purposeful a lot of the things that I do is helping people who are single. And one of the essays from Esther meanie wrote the first essay in the book called sheltering with ghosts. And she wrote, for me, isolation is a gift that favors art, the creative flourishes under these circumstances, it demands looking inward and detachment from the outside world. And for me, the saving grace has been this podcast and it's kept me focused and serving and a way to get out of my own head and put something positive in the world. Did your, do you think that your podcast or your new book served as a creative outlet while you navigated these troubled times

For myself? Yes. A hundred percent. And actually I did another interview this morning, um, with this woman named Erin Washington, maybe you should talk to her. She was awesome. Anyway, um, she just started book called, um, squats and margaritas. Um, but yeah, she's really awesome. Um, like we finished and I wrote the publicist. I was like, I need her email. She's like my new best friend, but anyway, she has a podcast or to a new podcast or, but we were both talking about, and now talking with you too, like, this is the second conversation today. Like podcasting is so awesome. It's like this amazing way, especially for women to connect in a new way, because this is like not to make gender stereotypes. And a lot of, they're obviously a lot of different formats for podcasts, but these sort of like more conversational podcasts are just like so up our alley, right? Like it's like to ream come true. So, and so easy to do. It's just, of course women want to listen to other women talk to each other. Like that's why you like overhear things in coffee shops and like find it so interesting. And I don't know. I just think it's, it's,

It's a way of like connecting people, just like you just told me about that writer, who it just makes our world less big. You know, we're not really that far away from each other. I don't know. It just connects people that could have amazing conversations and these conversations that potentially wouldn't have been had unless there was a podcast.

So, and like with people that aren't necessarily in your world, like, that's the other thing that I've totally learned this year is that like, you can find your people, but they might not be the people who you've ever interacted with in real life. Right. Like I feel like, um, the more people I meet through this podcast, first of all, the less original I feel like I am as a person, like all these things in my head. And like other people have the same thing. Like I I've met some people where I'm like, Oh, we've got like all the same like issues in a way, right. The anxiety and the, this and that. You know what I mean? You can tell. Um, so it's just so nice. And I don't know if you've found this too, but to yeah. To find your people all over the world, um, not constrained by where you happen to live.

It's true. It's true. And if we all have those same struggles, like making yourself a priority or all the things that you talk about on the online magazine that features the essays by the authors who appeared on your podcasts. And it's great to have a reminder of all the things we don't have time for because without these things, what are we living for? Exactly. And it needed to be said, people's relationships have been deeply affected during this pandemic and new relationships have been created. It's just so interesting to see how all these things are unfolding, but these very things that we don't have time for are the things that keep ourselves sane. How, how important is it to make yourself a priority and make time for yourself?

Yeah, no, you said it exactly right? Like that's like without these things, what, what is life? I mean, we're going to miss the whole thing.

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And I think the pandemic has knocked fun out of us. Gretchen Rubin, who is the author of the happiness project wrote in her essay, read more books, having fun makes it easy to follow good habits. When we give more to ourselves, we can ask more of ourselves yet. It's all too easy for fun to get pushed aside by other priorities. How have you made time for reading? Well, you continue to save the literary world.

Um, how have I made time for reading? I mean, I read all the time. Um, um, how has time, how have I made time for other stuff? I mean, I, um, I read really, really quickly. I, I, and the more I read the faster I've been getting, so, um, the more you do, the better you become. Yeah. And I, I don't read the way I used to, uh, the way I read is different. I don't skim necessarily. I mean, it's like a speed reading almost, um, where I can, I can do a whole book into, I can do like a whole book in an hour or two and totally get all I need. Yeah. So, and, you know, literary fiction, I, you know, I'm not going to get every beautiful sentence, but on a, on a book, I guess it's also, I read different books differently in different ways. So a beautiful work of literary fiction. I just started this book about, um, I can't remember what it has. I can't remember it's called, but it hasn't come out yet. It's about a woman who's sits and watches the Fox all day. Like it's beautiful. And I'm like, okay, for a book like this, I need to S I will really read slowly and carefully about 50 pages because that will give me like the depth and the texture and the wording. And like that those beginning pages are like the more important 50 to a hundred pages or so. And I'll read them really slowly and savor them. And then I can like skim through the rest, um, because I'm going to get the crux of the book that way. And a nonfiction book is different because it has like different sections or different subheads or, or a book of essays. I'll read it over the course of two months, write an essay a day. I'll just like, and then over time it will be finished. So I don't know, I guess I just like approach each book differently. And I have a lot of books going at every time.

That's fascinating to me. Cause I don't, I don't think I could do that, but I'm going to try it. I'd like you to be my coach because I want to get up to more podcasts a week. And I just can't do like, would be researching, like I'm creating like a pulse surprise here or something, you know, it's just, it doesn't need to be that hard. I feel like. And there's a lot to be learned from you. So, um, I'm so grateful for this conversation.

Well, very, also at the beginning I read every book, every word of every book and I did one a week. And even that felt like a lot for me, so you can build into it. And then I, and I used to prepare all my questions ahead of time and write tons of notes. And 10, I would type out all the quotes I wanted to reference. And after I did that, like, I don't know, 200 times or something I realized I didn't need all that. I didn't need to type it out. Like I could just have conversations. So my prep became faster, but my interviews became better. So I guess it's just like practice. I just kept doing it right. That whole like Malcolm Gladwell, hours of practice, whatever. I mean, I've done what, 600 times, 30 minutes. That's a lot of time to be podcasting. So yeah, I didn't start out this way. I didn't start out and say, I want to do like five to seven podcasts every week, but you feel, you build up to it after you get a lot of practice.

That's good. Cause it gives me hope, you know, but I think we don't give ourselves enough credit. You know, my boyfriend, I was saying like, look at her bio, my God. And he was like, dude, have you read your bio? You know, it's, it's funny. Like we, we, we do things and then we don't give ourselves credit for some of the things that we've done. So

No, I read your bio. You seem amazing. You like taking pictures, like a bazillion people. And when all these awards and like whatever I don't, you mean you're very, you're own like pioneer and you're podcasting and you're writing and you're doing all this stuff. So, I mean, that's pretty awesome.

Well, I never knew that I could write and, but writing is storytelling. And so if you can tell a good story, then just put it down into words. And I never realized how important was until I started this podcast and Reema Zaman. And if I've printed out someone's name in her essay, dystopian fiction is made for this moment. She wrote the lens of storytelling is like sunglasses, without story. My eyes burned from the glare of the world. I know during the beautiful, beautiful, anything of adored lens in it, I'm going to, I'm going to love anyway. It's like how many different ways can we use the word shot or lens? I know during this pandemic, a lot of people aren't in partnership or the relationship is falling apart. Loneliness is an at an all time high. How invaluable was reading for you and escaping the feelings of loneliness?

I mean, very important. I mean, it, when I got divorced, I was like, I had a really, really hard time on the weekends where my kids went to my ex-husband and my house, which was normally, you know, it's normally loud and bustling and everything that it was suddenly so quiet and empty. And it's really a shock. It's just such a shock, this empty nest out of nowhere type of thing. Anyway, I was having really hard time with it. And I remember sitting on my therapist's couch back when I made time for therapy, which I no longer do, which is really stupid. But anyway, and she said, you know, if you have a book you love to read, she's like, if you have a book you'll never be lonely. And I think about that all the time. And when ever the house feels empty on one of those weekends or I'm missing them, or I'm just like feeling that, you know, something heavy pressing against my chest feeling. I pick up another book and I'm out of my head, which is, is great.

The key is getting out of your head, which leads me to this next question. And you're in the essay racing against time. Oh, it was your essay. I was like, who's the author racing against the coronavirus. How working out is keeping me saying you wrote, all I can do is keep my head down, try to find meaning in the world, by helping others, particularly those in the literary community and pray one hour at a time, minute by minute, mile by mile. I thought that was like, wow. So powerful into the unknown. We all want to find a glimpse or just a moment of joy or to simply feel better. How have you relied on exercise during the quarantine?

Um, at the beginning I was doing a lot of running. I, after a while, I mean, I was home with four kids and my husband for like nine weeks without seeing another soul. Um, and, uh, I did not have a lot of time to work out, um, like everybody else. And, um, I mean, I always, I shouldn't say that that's a lie cause I did give the kids to my ex every other weekend. And I guess as you've seen, I can make lots of excuses about working out when I do it. I love it. I love to play tennis. So I'm Kyle and I play tennis a lot as exercise, but I don't even consider that working out. That's just like fun for me. And then every, so often I run and I do the Peloton bike. I just got into that. So I dunno, I used to be a huge exerciser. I used to be pretty athletic and played in all sorts of teams and stuff. And now I don't know, I've never been less on a workout kick than I have been. I've been off the workout kick for this past year in a bad way, and I need to get back on it. I'm just like out of the habit. Everything else seems to take precedence all the time. I put it at the very, very bottom of my list. It's not even actually on my list, so it doesn't get done. I really just need to put it back on the list. Right.

But you do do things for yourself, which, you know, you, you read a lot and you enjoy your podcast. And I think during this time it's like do what you can do, what you can to keep your head above water and do the best for the people that you love. And I, and I think I know myself, all the type a and all the things kind of have gone by the wayside because a lot of people are just in survival. I think we have to just be, give ourselves the grace and say, just like you wrote in that essay, you know, I'm just going to do minute by minute. And I think there's a lot, a lot there. That's why every inspired book. And so my last question is, I know your ideal day would be to sit down and read a book, cover to cover. Do you? And I'm sure a lot of people have always asked you this. Do you have a favorite book of all time?

I do not have the favorite book of all time. I don't have, I can't pick just one. That's like impossible. I can't, I'm sorry. I'll say that. I read a few lately that I actually did what you just said. Um, like Britt Bennetts the vanishing half. I literally sat down and read the whole thing cover to cover until the sun went down and I had to like finish reading in the dark by my flashlight of my iPhone because it was so good. And I did the same thing recently with American daughter by Stephanie Thornton, ply mail, which was so good. It was just amazing. And also Lily King's writers and lovers, I read that all in one fell swoop. So those are some recent ones that I just could not put down.

It's good. I'm going to have to look all of these up. My Tinder tips are going to be inspired by your love of reading. And I think that will be a fun way to end this. Thank you so much for your time today and sharing all your helpful tips. Everyone needs to go by Zippy's new book, a quarantine anthology moms don't have time to. Can you tell us where the are going and how people can follow you and purchase your book?

Yes. The proceeds are going to a charity. I set up called the Susan Felice Owens program for COVID 19 vaccine research at Mount Sinai medical center, where I am on the board Mount Sinai health system. I should say my mother-in-law passed away from COVID. Um, after a six week sort of horrific battle at the end of August and she should not have died. She was only 63 and in great shape. And I still can't believe she passed away. So I'm donating all the proceeds to COVID research. And Mount Sinai is developing a vaccine that will be used for developing countries, which is administered in one dose through the nose and as a much lower cost solution that can be stored at higher temperatures. So they've, they're going into human trials now, and I'm really hoping that the vaccine that I'm supporting helps spare families. Some of the trauma that I saw firsthand the summer. So that's where the proceeds are going and then they can buy my book. Anywhere. Books are sold Amazon bookshop that org your local independent bookstore, and they can follow me. My website is Zippy owens.com. My podcast is moms. Don't have time to read books and I also have a podcast called moms. Don't have time to lose weight and I have a publication on medium called moms. Don't have time to write. So if anybody wants to submit essays, we're always looking for great essays. It sounds like you should write one. Um, so please submit, and I'm on Instagram at the V Owens and then lots of other Instagram accounts for all my different things that I'm doing, but as the valence is my main account.

Okay. That's great. I'm so sorry about your mother-in-law and Kyle's grandmother and it's tragic, like you said, it's just shouldn't have happened and it's wonderful what you're doing to raise money. And I admire you for so many reasons. You are a true inspiration and you just, you don't stop giving back and making a beautiful difference in this world now and everyone and everyone should, you know, stay tuned for the three new books you're launching soon.

Yes. Yeah. I have two children's books coming in soon too. So

Yeah. And I can't sing the praises for your new book that just came out this month. It's just amazing. And I'm going to be purchasing it for lots of friends, huh?

Well, I am so glad that you had me on and that our paths crossed and I want to read the stuff that you are writing. It sounds like you have a really great book in you and I look forward to hopefully reading it and eventually having you on my podcast.

Oh, that's so that's a cool, that is a goal. And, um, and it will, I certainly would love to photograph you someday in the future, which is my, my main talent.

I know, I know that's your, that's your, your day job and all that. Um, and yeah, sure. That sounds great too.

So you all, you're always encouraging people to write, you know, and to try, and it has been a real healing process for me and something that I've actually loved. So yeah. Someone needs to write a book that moms don't have time to date.

Okay.

Yeah. So, well, thanks for your time today. And I really enjoyed our conversation.

I think now you just like sparked that whole thing. I'm like going off all the ways that I can do that and adding to my list, see how we inspire each other. Exactly. I love it. So good. Awesome. All right. Thanks. Have a great day. Thanks.

And for now, this week's tend to tips in honor, of Zippy's love of reading. These tips are inspired by her. Number one, maximize your time. Just like you can read a few pages here and there. You can open up a dating app and chat with a few new people. Number two, if you're feeling lonely, pick up a new book. I highly recommend Zippy's new quarantine anthology moms don't have time to number three. If you're suffering through a breakup, some of my favorite books are by Natalie Lou, Mr. Unavailable, and the fallback girl, the no contact rule and the dreamer and the fantasy relationship. Kimber four, if it's time to move on by Jill share Murray's book, big wild love. I hope you found some of my tips helpful this week. This is what shot at love is here for, to help you find love. Keep up the commitment to yourself and commit to helping someone else by sharing this podcast. I want to thank Pete spot for naming shot at love. One of the best dating podcasts on the planet and a must follow in 2021. If you like this show, please subscribe and review. I'm Carrie, Brett. We'll see you next time.