Why "Flaws" Are Golden - Embrace What Makes You Different With The Chai Rum Guys

I'm Terry Brett, and this is shot at love. The first motivational show around online dating today, we have two special guests, Karen, a call and John plumbing, formerly known as the Chiron guys. They spend their time traveling the world from India to Ireland with a call Chiron, inspiring us one sip at a time, they have the most interesting, unlikely and unconventional story, and it all began one night on a date in Miami. They're here to encourage us to chase our dreams. Live richer lives, find love and like anything they do today's episode will be a great adventure. You won't want to miss it. So stay tuned.

[inaudible] today.

I would like to introduce my friends, the Chiron guys, Karen and John. Karen[inaudible] has a creative career. That includes work for the governments of France Bastille day and Spain. The world's fair. He was a consultant at Walt Disney and a writer and artists for time Warner. Karen was recognized as one of the most 100 creative people in Florida. Karen also holds a degree in medicine from Ireland. John Fleming's creativity lies in a diverse range of interests. John worked in the spinal surgery world for 14 years. He's designed medical devices, which provide solutions to specific spine problems. He has written a children's book and has co-designed a unique portable architectural building, which was successfully constructed in Trinidad. Karen and John met in Miami on match.com and they never dreamed that they would be traveling the world. Joining forces with the Royals Royce owners' club, hosting the crystal ball at the Nantucket whaling museum, importing rum into West Indies at one ocean club in Barcelona, or bringing their spirits to the land of shamrocks and leprechauns. The Republic of Ireland. They are the most unlikely pair and couldn't come from more diverse backgrounds. They are my first guest who are in a interracial same-sex relationship. And I love you guys. They are also the sponsor of this podcast. I'm so glad you're here. And I know you have so much insightful stuff to share with our listeners. Welcome John and Karen. Thank you, Carrie, Carrie on your show, by the way, this is amazing. Oh, thank you. This was so fun to have you guys here. So before we talk about love, how to find love or finding our true passions in life, I want everyone to get to know you, so they really understand your story and how uniquely special it is. Karen, I'm going to start with you. Can you tell me where you grew up in what was like? Uh, yeah,

Sure. I mean, um, I was born in Trinidad and Tobago TryNet is, uh, the last Island in the Caribbean archipelago and it's just a few miles off the coast of South America. Um, it's a unique Island from a number of reasons. One is that, um, it's very different from the rest of the Caribbean islands and that is sort of more part of the South American mainland. So it looks like it looks like South America. So the mouth of the Orinoco tropical rainforests demographically, it's a very different Island. It had for some time, the largest diaspora of East Indians outside of India. And my family on both sides obviously comes from India. My great-great-grandparents came to Trinidad in the 18 hundreds. Trinidad was really an idyllic place to grow up in the, in the seventies. And six days is it was, um, not only diverse, but there, it was, there was a harmonious, uh, sort of interrelationship of cultures and religions and festivals and people. We grew up in a neighborhood that's very family oriented, lots of kids riding around on bikes and things. And we were educated and had a system that was sort of based on the British and the Irish school systems, because we were a colonial empire up until 1963. I come from a fairly large family. My mother comes from a family of seven children. My father came from a family of seven children, so the tons of cousins and, um, we grew up attending, I guess, what would be the equivalent of the British public school type of system, the Harry Potter S diver system, and, uh, had a fairly rich and dynamic lifestyle there with friends and family.

Wow. That's, that's really interesting. And so you meet this Boston boy and John. So John, I know what your upbringing was like, because we grew up in the same neighborhood and we've been friends since we were little kids. Do you want to tell everyone what it was like, how I screwed up her child? I'm just kidding.

And I, I grew up a Stone's throw away from you. And, um, we had an amazing little neighborhood in itself. My family was Boston Irish, as you had mentioned. So my mother was from Gallway and came over here during the nursing shortage in the 1960s, she met my dad who, um, went to Boston college and the, um, settled here in Hingham. So, um, it was, um, it was great. I think we had the best of both worlds really. And, uh,

We did. Yeah, we did just like, I just wrote around on a pink coffee and[inaudible]

Yeah, many, many races around the block, a lot of skin knees, but, uh, we, we started,

Yeah, we had each other, we didn't have much, you know, we had both grew up in a little Cape and we didn't have iPhones and we played in the woods and it was

Simple, simple life, but, uh, certainly, um, something that we, uh, reveled in, something that hopefully, uh, this generation will have a little bit more of. Right. Especially with, it's funny. I kind of felt that when I, when I first came to hang on my throat, it was a similar kind of neighborhood to a week. Yeah. I think it was the same kind of idea of kids riding around on bikes. And, you know, there was no sort of shed tooling of children's activities and stuff. He just showed up at Geneva's house.

Right. Yeah. My mom would just like yell out the front door for us to go home, but kind of interesting, but for John to go away to Miami, that was a big deal. I remember when that happened and I always joke about Hingham and I mean, I still live in the town that I grew up in, but I still joke that it's like the last scene in Goodwill hunting when Matt Damon decides to leave selfie. And I just feel like no one, no one gets out, he can't get out of Austin. So for you to go to Miami and then meet like this guy on from Trinidad,

I think people get out. But I, I think, um, you realize that you want to come back because it is such a special place. So there's something amazing about that as well, but traveling and, um, you know, being entrepreneurial was something that I think that I had in me from my, from a young age. So it was kind of a perfect transition. I had gone to school here for, you know, all of my education, really, even through grad school. And then when I graduated, I decided why not? Um, just take the risk and do something different, especially with, with medicine as a month physician assistant. So I decided that, um, I could check out the East coast and, uh, you know, work anywhere, which is, you know, pretty interesting for that career choice. I've also discovered that John really is a sun worshiper. He loves,

Oh, that's my first thought. I'm like, you know, this Irish bar down in Miami.

I know I shouldn't be down there. I have a lot of moles. I can pick out a mole taken off every week, but yeah.

Oh my God, I'm the type of person that goes to Miami and comes back pallor. So you meet five sunscreen. There you go. I want to talk about how you guys met, cause it is a dating show. And I think it's so interesting that Karen had like 200 likes on match. And so you're like, Oh my God. And so you tell me about the, the photograph of John, because it was like so bad and well, yeah, I mean, it was really funny because I didn't know photographer character. Uh, first of all, I, I

Didn't want to go on that. I didn't believe in the entire concept of online dating at all. I mean, I had moved to Miami back in around 2001 and, and, you know, I had lived in London for a really long time, more than more than 20 years. And I'd come down to Miami and I thought that, well, within this kind of dating pool, surely I'm going to meet someone in Miami. It was well known for its diversity for its, you know, it's, uh, LGBTQ culture and you know, everything and you thought, okay, you're going to meet people. And there's so many organizations and parties and social clubs, et cetera. And you know, it just wasn't working. I just didn't meet anybody. Um, and not that I didn't make friends or people didn't ask me out on dates, so I didn't ask people out, et cetera, but it just wasn't working. And, uh, really, uh, despite objecting a one friend to me, he said, one Halloween night, we're out, we'd had tons of drinks on Lincoln road. It's a huge party. And we got back at about maybe two o'clock in the morning. And before I knew what was going on, he had signed me up to match.com sort of swiped his credit card and, you know, put me online. That's nice. Um, your question was about John though. And, and it was an funny, because I did get a lot of, I woke up the next morning and I went, Oh my God, I don't believe I've done this kind of thing. And then, uh, John was kind of completely different in this sort of group of people that a lot of people reached out. And I was kind of reading profiles, looking at pictures. And I do believe that when people do this online dating thing, that photographs, what they say is true and your photographer carry a picture, says a thousand words. And also the way that you use the written language is very important. You can tell a lot about a human being by the structure of their sentences. And I thought that, well, you know, when I saw pictures, you can tell people that were narcissistic, they're more interested in themselves than in the date. Right? You could tell people that you're just looking at them and just to get a good vibe. I know it sounds really kind of funny to say, but, but you kind of look at someone and say, I'm just not seeing it in the eyes. I'm not seeing something here. John's photographs were so hilarious. Um, there were so tiny considering that this was a dating app. He was so many miles away and in one with a visor sunshades, and

You don't want to give it all away, you know, but I was like, who, this is

Who puts this on as their profile. I mean, the guy's like a raisin in

His photo up. There was like

A second picture when I tried to blow it up yet.

Um, I think it all comes down to personality. Yeah. So Karen and I are

Definitely two different personality types, but yeah. And that's what makes it work for us, you know? So he's definitely more out there. I'm a little bit more reserved. And I think that, you know, is exemplary of our relationship a little bit. So I was, you know, more into, uh, although his picture was amazing, being a,

I know he's very handsome and he photographs well, too.

Right? Like I would just find somebody that I can connect with on a, uh, more wit oriented, you know, he was hilarious

Again, in any of the pictures. I didn't want to scare anybody away. I didn't put on a fake wig. I have wigged it out too, but yeah, no, not prior.

Yeah. It was so bad that, you know, when we did eventually agreed to meet for, you know, sort of halfway, cause John lived up North, I live in Miami and we agreed to meet for a wine tasting event. I, it just suddenly dawned on me and I said, my God, you know, do you mind sending me a picture that's like about eight feet away from your face so that I know what you look like,

You know? And so he sent it to me and I was like, okay, great. Yeah. I mean, this is so funny. This is the first time I've ever heard John say that he's reserved. I think that what's special and so different about this relationship is that we, you know, we talk about the diversity and the differences and that you two are this unlikely pairing, but separately, you know, when you guys came together, you just work and you had all these connections to like the Ireland connection. And I think one of the things, medical connection, I think, yeah, the medical conduction, and then soon after meeting, you both decide to quit your jobs and start a rum company. Right. And perfect. Not everyone does that after like this date on match.com. Um, so it was a two year gap between that. Okay. So what is your passionate about rom? Like why did you guys decide to do that?

You know, brainchild and, um, it's, it's everything that he kind of encapsulates, it's really all about him. So his family is, you know, as five generations of working with T and then he's from the Caribbean, it's the land of Rome. So I think at one stage, he said, if he could combine the two of those, it makes for a perfect marriage between the two. And it's, it's really who he is. And that's why I think what we're trying to do resonates with people, because there's a real story behind it. And there's a real person behind it in this real innovation and what we're trying to do. So it's kind of nice to build a stand behind something that you really believe in. Yeah, I think, I think also, just to be honest about both of us being involved in this, I think w you know, what first struck us when we met is that all the way we were both in different fields at the time, a great part of our conversation was not only about Ireland, but it was also about creativity and things outside of just our general professionals, what we were doing. And it was very exciting to be talking to someone about different things, about creative things. And for me, I never, I mean, I wouldn't have dreamt 10 years ago, I would be involved in a rum. I mean, that that'd really be the most absurd suggestion, but I think I love a lot of things that are great. I love gardening. I love cooking. I love food. I love hospitality and hotels. I mean, you know, um, I'm a bed sheet, you know, sort of crazy person that was checking out the details of everything. Um, I grew up in a house with a lot of entertaining. My mother's the hostess with the most of us. And in a way, this was like an accident. I was helping the family with the tea business. And I read a mansion in a book. I can't even remember the name of the book now, but there was a mention that the combination of tea with rum was a delightful and was by a Dutch Admiral back in the 17th century. And I thought, wow, this could be an amazing, amazing idea. And I think it really is. It's a creative endeavor above everything else. You know, you can just say you're in it for the spirits business. So you can say you're in it because it brings together a lot of things. I think something that's interesting too, is having a medical background. You know, it's something that you have a connection with people, or at least you've been working on that, that ability to walk into a room that you know, is holding somebody that's really ill. And there's nothing between you and that person. You have to be honest and you, and it makes you come from a place that you build these skills that you can take into any career or to add to that care. I don't think anybody has more presence from patients than John though.

You have notes and books and people really loved them. Yeah.

A special person who is a healer and yeah. Talk about stress that heals really. Yeah. And it brings people together and it brings you around the world. And, you know, we find ourselves in a pandemic and normally you would be at the yacht show in Monaco, but instead, you know, you had to pivot and you guys are doing things differently. So instead of being in Monaco, you were at Chatham's bar in where they sell Jairam on the Cape, drinking some Shiram over the ocean and life is pretty good, you know? Yeah. You know,

I think one of the things we talked about was that we don't, we, what we're doing is working for us. We're not, we're not living to sustain a job. The job is actually working to help our lives better. So what we do in our daily pursuits every day is very enriching to our lives. And it does involve meeting a lot of people. Um, it does involve travel and it does involve meeting people whom we love chatting to. So when you meet a chef, who's really passionate about food, or if you meet a hotelier that really cares about his business, they're rarer than you think. But when you meet them, then they're really deeply committed to what they're doing. It's a very rewarding and a really engaging experience. And we've been meeting some incredible people around the world.

So I think that's great. I think this nomadic life that you're living is just so, so interesting because people hold themselves back, but you guys found your relationship to me is the true example of bringing out the vest in each other. And the key is finding that person who highlights your best qualities and encourages you to chase your dreams and gives you the wings to do it. John, I like how you say that you chime in at the right moment with Karen, right. Um, I think, but give him a country tune

Or a karaoke microphone. I'm kind of an oxymoron that way.

I know in some Jairam,

But I, I think to your point, yeah. Um, I, I don't know that this is, this would be something that every couple could kind of work through in that, you know, it, it is, you know, there's a stress w we are moving all the time. Traveling with, with someone is, is interesting. Working together all the time and working together all the time is, is, is, could, could be difficult. But I think if you, if you compliment each other, you try and decrease the stress you don't add to it. You know, I always think of, um, like in the dating world, you can always add somebody to your equation, but like, it's hard to add somebody that's a multiplier to your life. And that's what Karen is, you know, for me and vice versa, I think, I think that's why it works. And I think it's, um, really important that, that idea because yeah, a lot of people wouldn't think, Oh my God, I'm going to be in a relationship with somebody and work with them. But I think that to that point with different personalities, I'm definitely type age on is definitely quieter. But on the other hand, I always tell everybody he's a silent assassin, you know, he's going to walk out of a major thing and he could say, I just do not think that's a good thing, you know, and I may have missed it, but I think, you know, sometimes when you're powering through things, you, um, there's, there's always another approach as well. So I think, I think of Karen as, you know, being able to break down any wall or any barrier, but sometimes I look at them and I say, listen, like we can walk around this. We don't have to, you know, punch, punch through it. And, um, sometimes that, that, uh, we'll save him or save myself and, you know, that's why we work together well in that way. Yeah.

It's very similar to my relationship and you need that balancing partner to kind of, um, ground you. Right. And so the career path that you guys chose is can really be the make or break part of a success in a relationship, I think. Yeah. And you had mentioned earlier that you made the job work for you, that you don't have to work at the job. And I just think people, I want you guys to expand on this because I don't think everyone looks at the world this way or at their jobs this way. Like, you know, you have to get married at a certain age, you know, active, like fall into this, you know, whatever people think. Like I remember Karen was saying that your dad had to just trust you, that you were going to leave this medical profession after 14 years and, or your family would say to you, Karen, you know, you can always go back to being a doctor. Well, when you start a rum company or a company of any level, then you're all in, you commit, you commit, you're not going back. You're not going back. So it's like that career path that you, you guys were committed in so many levels in this relationship to say, if we're broke and we're still like, who cares? Yeah.

It's, it's about, you know, being happy and, um, and, and just going for what what's gonna make you happy one way or another and not having the regret, you know, I mean, so many times you can just be plugging away and comfy, and that's great, but everybody has a different personality and this isn't for everybody. It really isn't, you know, I, yeah, you sound like we can give this as advice to people to say about pursue this. And I agree with that, John. And I think, I think that really, you know, shared this idea that life is a big adventure and, uh, uh, you know, the whole, the whole thing about it is that I think we both realize if we committed to this, we should commit to it and follow it through to the end and really go for it. And, you know, Carrie, to be honest, we were talking about jumping from meeting each other, to starting a company. There's a lots of ups and downs and lots of trusts and lots of struggles in along that pathway. But when you have the ability, not only between yourselves, but with the infrastructures around you to weather those storms and, and that infrastructure has come to us, not only in our relationship, but, and this was a big fundamental part of why I think our relationship worked, but in the infrastructure that both of us have outside of our relationship. So if I think of John's brother, for example, and I think of John's and standard circle of friends, if I think about my sister and my brother and my extended circle of friends, there was a huge common ground, despite racial and cultural differences. There was enormous common ground there. And you have no idea how important that extended infrastructure has been in making what we do a success. Um, and that includes the relationship, I think, because there's so much support from both sides of the, you know, what you don't normally get, or sometimes you don't get in these types of relationships. So, um, that was, you know, we were very fortunate in that regard. Um, yeah, incredible acceptance of both of us on both sides. It was extraordinary for me to walk into a new England family, you know, so many thousand miles away from Trinidad and feel as if I was in my own aunt's kitchen. I mean, honestly, John's aren't and in Harwich is like, I mean, the closest thing I have to my own on Tinder, internet, I mean, this is incredible.

It's amazing. I know I met your family and Nantucket and I wanted them to adopt me right away. And it was amazing how much they were so loving and nice because it was like, if she grew up with John, then we already signed off on her. We like her, you know? And I think that friendship and those families, that relationship is fundamental. Like you support the podcast and you support me, like we can support each other. And, you know, you did mention that when you have this like unlikely pairing that comes from different places, one of the things that pulled you guys together was that family influence that you cared so deeply about family values and, you know, the relationship wouldn't survive. If your families weren't so accepting of each other,

Both of us have, have, um, such enormously close relationships with, with our extended family. I mean, John's relationship with his cousins, both here in the United States and in Ireland is exactly like my relationship with my cousins. And I remember just saying to him, like, I think I just have the Bollywood version of your family, to be honest. It's just, you know, we just wear a lot more jewelry and I'm a more colorful and we get together, but essentially it says the same thing going down here, you know? And it, it was really important because I, I couldn't see how someone like myself or someone like John could survive in a relationship where the partner caused a fracture in the, in the way the family operated as a unit. Absolutely not. And sometimes people think of these relationships as it says, some kind of independent Island floating in the sea of their family. And I don't think, I mean, you can have a certain amount of, of, of, of, of discord, but I think that, you know, you really want to have it in the balance of things more harmony than discord, and then it works a lot better. It becomes, right?

Yeah. Because if you come from all this dysfunction, that dysfunction is going to be amplified in your relationship,

No matter what exactly, you know. Yeah.

So this is also inspiring. We're going to take a short break, but when we come back, we're going to talk about what a successful relationship looks like and how

Create a quality of life that works for you. This episode of shot at love is brought to you by[inaudible] the world's first botanical Ruff recognized by the government of Trinidad and Tobago is having the first new production process for rum over a century, uh, called shy rum isn't officially protected trade secrets, only the second such protective process in the Caribbean, since the famed Angostura bitters like Don Carlos Siegert 1870s for Kyle Chiron was available in 44. Us States on chiron.com, also available in the Republic of Ireland on stuff you need. I try some today and we're back

With John and Karen. And today we're talking not only about what makes a successful relationship, but how we live in this world. That's basically an on-demand society that people are so quick to throw away a possibility. And I know Karen, you, you didn't base your first date with John on looks, um, because John didn't have the best photograph, but thank God you didn't, you know, you were open. And I think people are really focused on the exterior and they get tripped up and people aren't really like opening up. I mean, John, you were just telling the story that you're helping a friend and they had this really generic profile on Bumble. Right. And you were like, this is not good. So what was your suggestion for that? Well, I just thought it was

So generic that anybody would just, you know, motor on by that. And I think if you're going to put the time in, you might as well focus on exactly what you want, say exactly what you want, even if it's not what everybody else wants, you know? And I think, you know, we were just laughing, eating Bon bons by the fire and listening to holla notes. If that's what you want, you know, say it don't be afraid of it because it's going to weed people out people out. And that's not a bad thing. Like also it's how do you use, um, a photograph or how do you use, as I said, words and language to, um, express, you're a unique human being in all of the world. Each one of us is. And, you know, so you can't be just writing till formula, like living your life to formula, which I think is a big theme running through our conversation today. And you know, I think what John was saying that, yeah, it may, it may not be what everybody expects, but it is that unique expression of words that you then say, this person has a great sense of humor or I get it or I don't get it. And then the person that gets it is the kind of person that would interest you, you know, you'd be interested in so

Right. But John, you know, I, sometimes if I put up an image on Instagram, you'll be like, you'll say something like this really thought out, like, you'll say, I can't even with your dog, you know? And that's not a well thought out, but like, you'll you take the time and the care to write a nice message to someone and that matters. Like people can hear heart through those text messages. And so if you, if you're like, I love hanging out, you know, that's different than say some, some other band. And I think that's funny and I think do more of that and people don't know. I think there's a

Formula. I think now do you think people feel that they have to live out of a formula? I think nowadays people are so conscious of putting yourself out there, that you have a photo out there that you have, you know, a statement out there and then people just feel like they're constantly being judged. So it's, I get it. It's difficult. You want to be different, but at the same time, you don't want to be different. You know, you don't want to be judged. And I mean, there's, there's a, there's the idea. Sometimes I've heard some people say to me, who've had relationships that haven't succeeded. You know, I met somebody, I went out with them, I dated them and then I married them and then they turned out to be somebody completely different to the person I thought I met in dataset. And sometimes you wonder if for some reason there wasn't any Clare, deep communication or exchange of ideas or real exposure of who you are as a person removal of the Vanessa, as it were. You know, I think with some extent we all present ourselves in public as something. Um, but it's about the bit that's underneath that external Vanessa that really always matters in the end. And I think as we get older, we have more, you know, guards up and we put more Vineer on and we, we don't let so many people and we get good at it. You get really good at being something on paper. You get really good at being something, you know, in a photo, but like, who is that really who you are. Yeah. Right. So you need to tear that back expectation. I think it's expectation. And I think, you know, you see a lot of things in the media and stuff today, especially, especially for girls. Well, I think as he could be bad for guys, I have to be honest, you know, um, body perception and what you should look like and you know, the hair and the makeup, but, you know, I mean, can you just put your hair up in a pony tail and be in a pair of sweats and take a nice picture and look pretty? You know what I mean? You know, but people feel this to be something. And, um, you know, that's not, that's not real life, you know, it's not how we, how we are so

Well, it's not real life. And you come from different backgrounds, but no matter where you come from, all, any, anywhere in the world, it all goes down to morals and values. Yeah. And so the success of your relationship is the family piece. And I know John has a brother, Edward, I call him Eddie because I grew

Up with them. But

I love that Karen calls him Edward, but like Karen FaceTimes at, you know, like, and John lost his mom when he was a young and that played a big part in the character of John and John and ed are like twins because they just had each other and their dad. So it was like the three Musketeers with the three of them. Right. And that was so important to John that you loved Eddie and Eddie loved you.

Yeah. Like it was like, um, it was funny because when I met Johnny, he talked about his brother a lot. And actually, um, the first time I ever visited his apartment, the first thing that I was shown was a photograph of John and Eddie on a holiday in Ireland wearing wigs. It wasn't the best way to see Eddie or Edward.

I'm surprised. I thought, wow, okay, this isn't, this isn't unusual. Then I sold cousins. My dad's in a way, your dad's in a wig too. And I thought, wow, this is really interesting group of guys. You know what, let your hair down.

But then I met Edward on a trip up to Boston really early on. And, and I just immediately got along with him. And it was really funny. Um, I had asked John once, you know, show me a picture when you were a kid or something. Did you have any kitty pictures when you guys were young? And this picture of him and Edward in front of the house at four Hoover roadway, Edward now lives from the family home and Eddie was sitting in John's lap and he's bursting out laughing so cute. And it was hilarious because when I met him, I was looking, normally guys face has really changed and they look completely different when they're the same, but Edward looks exactly

The same. She still has to see

Him smile. And I, if wanted, why was kind of semi smirking when I met him, you know? But, um, he's the same kid in that photograph. And, um, yeah, you're right. There's, I think there's a bond there, um, from that period, without them above, you know, losing their mother so early that they would, you know, it would have been possible to have a relationship where Edward wasn't included.

Right. And I love, that's so beautiful to me that it's like, when Karen came into the family, you brought all that

Like hostess with the most it's quality, it's like, you know,

Brought in some things that you felt you had lost. And that's so incredible to me. I just think you guys have such a special, unique bond, but I want to talk about how people, you know, you had mentioned Karen, that the medical being a doctor gave you the prism to see the world differently. And human mentioned that to John. And I think a lot of people are stuck in a relationship or a career that doesn't serve them and that they just don't see anything broader.

Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny, I thought about this a lot because so many people I meet in my life mentioned to me how a difficult it is to at least, you know, get into medical school and then go to a school is as wonderful as the one that I went to and get a degree. And then, Oh, you know, the con a lot of comments besides, well, you can always go back is, or what a waste, but, you know, education to me is a continuum and it doesn't matter what you study or what you read at university. You, you shouldn't, in my opinion, anyway, I didn't see it as a commitment into the vocation of medicine. I kind of felt, I always tell everybody that I think medicine was one of the best sort of grounds for developing a fertile, imaginative mind, understanding the human being, understanding the failure of the body. I think John mentioned seeing, you know, close-up illness and death for me caused a moment of sort of, um, sort of philosophical thinking. And I remember very clearly, I was very young when I went to medical school, I had skipped about three years of school all the way up, and that was allowed in the British system. And I went to a Florence and I walked around Florence. And I remember going to your pizza gallery and setting off an alarm because they leaned in so close to a painting there. And I got back out afterwards and I said, I mean, I know I'm in medical school, but you know, this creates the, the, the immense capability of human beings to create, to work silver marble, to, you know, in Florence, it was so concentrated that you can't help yourself. You you're being assaulted almost with this incredible brilliance and many different art forms from sculpture to painting to silverware, um, to jewelry making. And that, that, that you, I remember standing on the bridge and looking down at a guy sculling on the Arno. And I said, well, I dunno what I'm going to do, but I'm going to go buy myself a sketchpad, a set of pencils and an artist's portfolio case. I had absolutely nothing to put in the sketch sketchpad. And I did buy the most beautiful pencils I've ever found in the, in the center of, uh, of, of Florence. But I knew then that, that my medical degree was there to help me to look at life diff in a different way to look at my purpose of being alive in a different way. And so I see it as, you know, really using my degree to its fullest,

Right. But it's this passion and this purpose and chai rum has really pushed you creatively, you know, and I, you told me a story, but it may not happen now because of COVID, but you want to basically head to the end of a dirt road up in Maine to meet this master pottery woman Potter from Japan, Japan. Yeah. So like that is so random. Like, it's so cool though.

Welcome to our level. And I do. Yeah, because it's

Your openness, Karen, really, that you became fascinated with all things in Japan, you know, you will be going to Japan, which Iram next year. Yes. Very cool. And you find this person who can potentially make a different Tyra on bottle,

Right. Or vessel for drinking. Yeah. Can

You talk about the kin suit? Yeah.

It's, it's, it's something that I came across recently as I've kind of really been obsessed as my latest obsession is Japanese culture. Boy, it wasn't this really.

Oh, was it? It probably was. So, um, no,

It's, it's a Japanese, um, uh, art form where by broken vessels are repaired. And the, the scars where the pieces are put back together of the poetry are highlighted in gold. And the idea behind it is that the, the, the reuniting of the pieces and the embracing of the flaws and the imperfections and the pieces is put back together, actually create something that is more valuable and more beautiful. And in a way, I think it's a really good metaphor for the way people should look at life that, that the imperfections that we all have when we all do have them and the flaws that we may have, and the pit sometimes being broken apart, and then having to piece it all back together, um, it doesn't make us weaker. It should make you stronger. And, um, you don't have to hide these things. You can wear these things, um, on your sleeve. So Kinsley was, was sort of part of my looking at that. Um, I'm also very obsessed with glass and porcelain. I've been collecting it since I'm, um, seven or eight years old. If you could believe that my dad still thinks it's the weirdest thing in the world at a seven year old, wanted to buy a jug. But, uh, you know, I have been, and, um, I had read about this Potter who comes from 14 generations of, of pottery in, um, in Japan. And her father is considered a living treasure in Japan. And she couldn't take over the studio because, um, you know, you couldn't hand it down to a girl. So her brother got the studio in Japan and she landed up moving to, um, to Maine where she established a studio. And then now consequently has another one in Japan. But when I read this story and I saw her pottery, you could, you could see the immense talent and what she was doing. And again, she's a bit like in Zuki because I think to be the child with the master talent and to be told you can't take over the pottery, but then to embrace that and to come here and to make a go of it is she's an example of the pottery itself, you know?

Right. So she's like living her art. She is. Yeah. Well, I just love the example of consent consent. You'll have to say it for me. It's okay.

We'll need a translator, but I,

This, like, let's take these flawed pieces ourselves and highlight them in gold, you know, like that in show more of your fluidness on these dating sites and you can become better after you're broken. Well, I mean, the question is

At the end of the day, is it, is it really a flaw,

You know? Right.

I call it a flow, but is it really a flaw? Because, I mean, even if you look at things like I've been recently fascinated by things like, you know, the Paralympic games let's say, and you look at people and you see them excelling at different sports with physical disabilities, and then you ask yourself, is this a floor? Has this really pushed these people to even greater Heights of what you're capable of as a person, not just physically, but mentally, and in terms of your own place within the world. And you know, so really I think a lot more of that needs to begin to happen rather than, you know, it's kinda like, it's kinda like, what do you call it? Mass marketing of fashion brands, right? I mean, why does everybody want the same handbag that they're going to buy in London? Paris. I want to go to Paris. And

Not that I have a handbag, but although my brother would[inaudible], my brother would not a flaw. It's not a flaw, but I mean, you know, it's kinda like, you know, let's,

You want to see what's different here. What's a different expression of things. Yeah, absolutely. Each of us, ourselves, I mean, stop trying to conform to everybody. And everybody's idea of what's right. What's right or wrong.

And I think you get to a point in your life where you get to be a certain age or something happens to you where you're like, I'm doing this. And I think you can't buy everything online. No, no. And I think that's what led you to Miami John. Yeah, I think so too. And then led you on match.com and now Chiron and you're all over the world. And I can't thank you too enough for being here and showing us by example, what it takes to have a successful relationship business and life. So where can people find you and vice cha Rome? Whoa,

Right now we're, we're primarily online. So chiron.com of course. And especially with the shift with COVID right now. So, um, we're definitely more focused on online than on premise, but we have a good presence in quite a few different regions of the country and we're going into Ireland right now, which is very exciting. Yeah. We're both really excited.

That's so good. I'm so proud of you guys. And I hope, and I'm putting this out there to the universe that my producer, Tom and I will be joining you next September. Um, and bringing shot at love. And our hopes is what down below on a deck

In Monaco.

Um, but you know, if we have to think big and we have to be open and expect the unexpected, great things can happen to all of us,

Make everyday count life as an adventure, make every single count. And we're proud

Of you, Carrie. Thank you so much.

Thank you. And thank you for supporting shot at love. And for now this week's Tinder tips. Number one, walk away from people who put you down and surround yourself with people who encourage you and give you the wings to fly. Number two, find things that inspire you and make you happy. Stop trying to make other people happy instead, make yourself happy. Number three, embrace your flaws. In fact, highlight your flaws and add some glitter and gold. Just like the broken pottery. No one is perfect. And in honor of today's guest, Karen and John expect the unexpected because sometimes when things seem unlikely, when they joined together, they make sense.

And this is what

Love is here for, to help you find love. Keep up that commitment to yourself and commit to helping someone else by sharing this podcast. Remember to stay safe and stay tuned for more episodes. If you'd like me to photograph you for your online dating profile, sign up for my shot at Love's motion. Please DM me on Instagram, or you can find me on my website, Carrie Brett lifestyle, portraits.com. And if you liked the show, please leave a five star review. I'm Carrie Brett, and we'll see you.

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