Suicide Prevention in the Arts

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Hello, hello everyone. I'm Soda and you are listening to The Success Palette.

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And on this podcast, we typically talk about subjects that relate to being a

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professional artist or creative of any type and aren't talked about enough,

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especially in schools where they're supposed to prepare you for the real world.

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And today's subject is probably the most important subject I could think of

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that I wish was taught in our school systems, and that is suicide prevention.

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Artists have one of the highest suicide rates, and I fear that it's going to

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get even worse with how much things are changing within the arts overall.

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This is something we've discussed a little bit in a few different episodes throughout

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this podcast, but but I really wanted to have a full episode dedicated towards this specific subject.

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And to help me out with that, I have Jennifer, who is a professor of social

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work and also a very big mental health and LGBT advocate and a writer.

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So Jennifer, I would first like to ask you, How did you become this activist

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for mental health, for equality, for all of these things that are related to the subject?

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Yeah, I graduated college and took a job at a mental health center.

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It wasn't even what my bachelor's degree was in. I just happened to make some connections.

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And so I started working in mental health straight out of my bachelor's degree

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and really fell in love with the people that I was working with.

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And the idea that recovery is the pathway that everyone struggling with a mental

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health disorder can be on, but that it's also very personally defined.

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Recovery is a very personal journey.

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And I wanted to take that journey with folks.

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And so that's kind of how it got started.

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And once I started down that career path, I never looked back.

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I have such an admiration for people who go into careers that's all about helping

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others like what you do. So thank you for that.

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And how do we as people who aren't

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professionals help our friends without taking on all of their burden?

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So what I hear you asking is about as a common friend,

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neighbor, person who might be on the receiving end of a friend's distress call

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or a friend's need for mental health support, how do I support them? How do I help myself?

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How do I take care of myself when I'm doing that?

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Those are excellent questions. And I hate to be too cliche about it,

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but I do feel very strongly about the whole, you know, put your,

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if you have to have your oxygen mask on before you put someone else's on.

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So I think it's being really in tune with your own mental health and your own resilience level.

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Where are you at? How are you feeling?

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Because what happens is if we are feeling bad ourselves, if we are suffering,

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if we are struggling, and we try to be strong for someone else in their dire

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moment of need, that can be very challenging. That can be very difficult.

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And then you can kind of devolve into this commiserating as opposed to lifting each other up, right?

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Being that rising tide that lifts up other boats.

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You can both sink together, and we don't want that. So if you are not feeling

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well, if your mental health is suffering,

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or if you're, I make a distinction between mental health and emotional health,

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and we can talk about that, but I'll go on to say that if you're struggling

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and you feel like your own tank is empty, or you don't have enough oxygen,

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I would recommend that you would help this person with circling their own wagons in another way.

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And I had this sort of plan for another question that you were going to ask

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me, but there's this idea of, you know, circles of support and wrap around a person.

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And so you might be in that person's circle of support.

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Who else is in that person's circle of support? So then let's say you go ahead

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and help the person and you need some self-care.

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I think that being very intentional about help-seeking means that you're also

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very intentional about developing circles of support where you know the people

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in your circles that have that resilience and they're doing well and that they can receive a call,

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that they can listen. Listen.

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Listening is just such a key critical thing.

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I also think it's okay to listen and to tell the person that I don't have all the right words to say.

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I'm not exactly sure what to say, but I am willing to listen to you and make

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you feel like you're not alone.

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That goes a long way as well. Sometimes it's just about connection and belongingness.

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And not having to be an expert. But I do recommend that if you don't feel well,

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if you don't feel that your resilience is at a level that you can take on someone

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else's emotional pain, that you avoid doing so.

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And that you encourage the person to seek out supports where those resources

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are maybe more resilient or strong at the time. I love what you said about the

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importance of community.

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And that was my next question I wanted to ask. The reason I started with this

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one is because I personally last year I had four friends who either attempted

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suicide or were about to that.

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And that really, really was hard for me because I felt helpless.

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I felt very lost and confused. But luckily, all four of these people did have some sort of support.

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So whether it helped them not go forth with their actions or help them recover,

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it was so important to them to have that support.

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A lot of us don't have any sort of support. A lot of us who are creatives,

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we tend to be a little bit introverted and it's hard to make those friends.

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What is the best ways for us to find that support and how can support really

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help us have that safety net?

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I think there's two things here. I call it sort of the mental health or connection toolbox.

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I did make that up, but it's just a way to put together some ideas where you

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might have a toolbox for yourself and your own mental health,

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and then you may have a toolbox to help other people.

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If if we feel unprepared if

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we are unprepared to help other people

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then we are going to feel helpless it's it

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would be similar to your car breaking down on the side of a road and you're

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in it's night and you're in the middle of nowhere and you don't know or maybe

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you your tire blue right and you don't know how to change a tire and you think

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to yourself oh my goodness i don't ever want this to happen again.

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So I need to learn how to change a tire in case I'm driving in the middle of

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the night on the middle of nowhere and I need to change a tire.

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So I think what, when people call us for help or when people reach out for help

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and we don't have those toolboxes built yet, then that is a call to action for us to build a toolbox.

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So what that means is having those crisis line numbers on the ready,

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you know, whether it's in a spreadsheet or whether it's in your wallet or whether

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you just have them memorized.

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Of course, now 988 is super easy to have memorized as opposed to the old suicide

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prevention lifeline number.

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But also, I think having, and I know this is another thing we plan on talking

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about, but having, you know, resources,

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lists of resources in your local community, your larger community,

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whether that's your state, so I know you're in LA, is that correct?

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So, you know, having sort of LA-based resources and then having state of California resources.

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I'm in the Midwest, so having local state, you know, national resources.

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But in terms of connection, I think that that does require some intention because

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for artists and creatives, a lot of that work is happening in isolation, as you said.

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So whether it's someone like me, who's an author who sits to write a book and

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I'm in my office space and that's all I'm doing all day, or an artist with whatever

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medium they're creating,

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they're not doing that surrounded by people talking in their ear.

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That makes it difficult to be creative.

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Just being creative can be isolating.

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So connecting outside of your craft is going to have to be intentional.

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You are going to have to make a decision, a choice to connect.

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So let's, let's, let's look at this sort of filling your tank sort of concept.

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So if you allow your creative to.

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Whatever it is, your medium, to be the only thing that fills your tank,

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then you are relying on your creativity and your role, your job,

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your creative works to be the thing

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that fills your tank, which means that you're asking it to give to you.

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Things like creativity need to be out in the world, right?

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So what actually gives to you is when someone appreciates your creativity,

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when someone says, I love what you made. I love what you drew.

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I love your graphic. I love that piece you made. I love your book.

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Yeah, I love that poem, you know, all those things.

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So connecting and building community is essential.

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And you have to get outside of your studio. You have to get outside of your

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office. You have to get outside of your creative space.

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And sometimes that is really, really difficult. So you have to plan for it.

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You have to be intentional.

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Now, it could be that your community is your art community or your creative community.

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But here's the thing with that. You may be met with other folks who are having

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those same struggles, which make you feel like you're not alone,

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but at the same time may not be the place for resources.

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And so they'll say, oh, I know how you feel.

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And it feels validating and connecting for someone to say, I know how you feel.

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But here's what I'm saying. You have to get outside of that world.

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You have to form a connection.

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I just read this. It might've been threads even where someone basically

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said, if you make your, you know, your creative life, your only life,

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then, you know, you're, you're basically asking for, you know,

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sort of, you know, additional,

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you know, sort of weight.

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But if you go outside of your, I forget the actual quote, that's why I rambled

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on that. But if you go outside of your space, okay, and give.

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To give to others what your gifts are, right?

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There is so much healing and community building when you are giving yourself.

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And whether it's volunteering or spending time with people who need something that you have to offer,

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teaching an art class at a senior center, or if you're me, it's animal adoption.

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Those are other things that fill your tank and build community.

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You have to diversify your portfolio of community.

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Do not expect your creative community to be the end-all be-all of filling your tank.

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You have to diversify your portfolio and your tank filling.

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I love that. I love that so, so much.

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Because looking back this last year, I've made so much progress on my own mental health.

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And I'm realizing while talking to you, a lot of that is because I diversified.

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Because I mean, if you cancel culture is huge.

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If you get canceled from your community, what do you have?

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So, yes, I started getting involved with an entrepreneur community.

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All these other sort of activism communities, other communities besides just

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my art community and my writer community.

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So thank you for bringing that up. That's not really a connection I made before,

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but I'm realizing how important that's been for me. And that kind of goes along

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with my next question is regarding social media.

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And you talked about how it's important for us to be validated and have a community and everything.

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How can social media both positively and negatively impact our happiness with

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ourselves and suicide prevention? That is such a great question.

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And what's really interesting is that there's so much debate around what is

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social media helpful? Is it harmful?

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And when you read the research on the relationship between social media and

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mental health, quite frankly.

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It doesn't come down on an answer, okay? So we do not have a clear answer of

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the impact of social media.

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Part of that is just research design, and it's very challenging to study social

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media and mental health because there are so many platforms and there are so

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many people, and there's time variables.

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How much time does someone spend on social media?

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Let's kind of go back to filling our tanks and diversifying our portfolio.

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Human connection is important and social media,

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unless it's a bot, are human beings behind their phones or behind their,

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you know, laptops or behind their tablets, inputting information to be seen. Okay.

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So when you post something, whether it's a TikTok video or a tweet or a thread

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or Facebook post or Instagram photo or reel,

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whatever content you're creating, when someone hits that like button, right?

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When someone hits that heart, when someone validates that, you are going to

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get that dopamine hit, right? It is going to feel good.

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Who doesn't want to feel good?

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But then those will stop. I do understand there is a very small percentage of

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these things that go viral.

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In fact, my very first TikTok wasn't mine.

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My daughter created a TikTok like five

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or six years, whenever TikTok first started, I had no idea what it was.

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She created a TikTok with me, posted it. I had no idea. Didn't have a TikTok account.

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And she calls me like two days later and says, our TikTok got over a million

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views. And I'm like, what are you talking about?

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And it was, it was just a silly little video, but I think TikTok was new.

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I'm not sure something like that would go viral today, but my daughter was so

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excited and I couldn't believe.

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That, that level of excitement over a video that in two days got a million views, but guess what?

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Since then, since that, you know, six years ago, whatever, whenever we made

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that video, there's not been, there's not been more millions of views.

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So we have to go,

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if we fill our tank with hearts and likes and words of validation from social media by itself,

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once again, that tank will run dry because those hearts will run dry.

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Those likes will run dry.

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All of those things will run dry and we will post more to try to get more filling of the tank.

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And then it becomes this exercise, this hamster wheel, right?

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This exercise of post validate, post validate.

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And eventually if we hit a wall, you know, then all of a sudden the tank is

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empty because we've only put all of our, you know, desire to have the tank filled by social media.

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I think it's okay to post and to enjoy getting validated, but we have to learn

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how to manage our expectations.

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And I also think that if we diversify our validation portfolio and our kindness

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and compassion portfolios across these other forms of connection and not rely

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on social media as the way to get that validation,

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to get that tank filled, then we are going to benefit.

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So I think the downside is allowing social media to be the one thing that fills your tank.

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I think it's okay for it to fill your tank to some extent, if you have,

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again, that diversified portfolio of how to get validated and how to get your

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needs met and how to get your tank filled.

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I just love all of that. That is so important.

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And sometimes we don't even realize how much we're struggling,

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how much we're being affected by what other people think of us.

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What are some ways that we can kind of self-analyze and realize what we're struggling with?

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And how do we know when we're at the point that we do need to reach out for

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help, but again, without making them in an uncomfortable situation?

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There's many layers to this, I think. So in ourselves, so there's,

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I hear two questions here, sort of like, how do we know when we need to get help?

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Or maybe how do we know when someone else needs professional help?

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And then how do we avoid making other people the receivers of our trauma if

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the relationship maybe doesn't have that level of connection or that unspoken

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agreement that we're going to communicate at that level.

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So I mentioned this earlier, I differentiate between emotional health,

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mental health, mental illness, and crisis.

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So these are not linear, okay? These are not linear things.

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Emotional health is our day-to-day feelings and reactions to the small things that happen, right?

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We may have something that disappoints

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us. We have something thing that irritates us or frustrates us.

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Those are sort of not, those are kind of softer emotions, if you will, right?

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So we're not, you know, our reactions may be what we might call pretty on par

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with the way a human being would react to a disappointment or a frustration.

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So that's our, you know, that's sort of our emotional health.

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Where it tips over into mental health is when we have a series of things that

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are very challenging for us to deal with, right?

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So it tips over from frustration into getting stuck in that place of frustration.

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Isolation tips over into a place of despair where we feel like not only are

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we isolated, but we are completely disconnected and we don't belong anywhere.

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And so when it shifts over into a mental health disorder is when we are,

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we have begun from being stuck to then going down and sinking down into the

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hole where we, we don't have access to our coping skills anymore.

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Okay. So we, when we don't have access to the things that have generally helped us in the past,

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the things that have, whether it's journaling or creating or talking to a friend

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or reaching out, listening to music or taking a hot bath or a hot shower or taking a walk,

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when those coping mechanisms are no longer working for us and we are entrenched

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in this feeling and we can't get out and we have tried,

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that is when it is time to join with somebody.

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Okay. And I'm going to say, I'm saying this intentionally, join with somebody to help us.

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So I don't know if you watch too much, a lot of Renee Brown has gotten a lot

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of public sort of, she's also a social worker and she is someone who speaks

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a lot about empathy and hope and resilience.

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And she makes this little video that's been seen like 200 gazillion times.

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And it's about empathy, right? And it's about being present with somebody and

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joining with So when empathy no longer feels genuine, when you are in that place of darkness,

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all of those places that I'm speaking of are places where it is definitely time

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to seek out professional help.

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Help and also then if we don't if

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we don't seek out professional help at that point

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and it tips into crisis crisis is

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when you feel like when you are having imminent thoughts

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of taking your own life okay and it can also be behaviors that are are would

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be interpreted by just about anyone as being suicidal it could be hoarding medications

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it could be buying a firearm it could be you know any of these means by which

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you could end your own life,

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that crisis obviously needs emergency help, not just professional help, but emergency help.

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So when do we know when we're at these times.

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Sort of various places. You know, when I'm having emotional health sort of struggles,

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right, where I'm feeling frustrated, I'm feeling a little angry, I'm feeling upset.

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That is generally when talking to a friend helps.

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And I recommend that we have and that we're intentional with building those

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circles of support where there is an agreement. I even recommend listening buddies.

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So a listening buddy is someone that you talk to and say, would you like to be my listening buddy.

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And what that means is that you pair up and maybe once a week you have an intentional

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phone call for 15, 20 minutes or however long you designate and you take turns.

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There's no interrupting.

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It's not to replace therapy, but it's just you get to, you have that agreement.

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It's not, I wouldn't call it trauma dumping. I would call it checking in and

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noticing and listening.

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And so you have this person, you tell them how your week's going.

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They tell you how their week is going, you listen, and then you do some validation.

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And you might do some checking in on some things about how they're handling and coping.

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And you do that once a week. And you schedule it and you're intentional and you protect that time.

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That can help you from, you know, sort of stumbling into this place of being stuck, right?

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If you're constantly, you know, it's like changing the oil in your car.

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If you never change the oil in your car, your car engine is going to seize up.

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We want to avoid seizing up.

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We want to have those people in our life at the beginning, planting the seeds,

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keeping that connection fostered so that we're not developing into these places

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of darkness and despair and require emergency care.

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Did I answer your question?

301
00:24:09,278 --> 00:24:13,718
That was beautiful. I really, really liked that answer.

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And a lot of us as creatives, we tie our worth into a lot of how we are received.

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And you were talking about filling up your tank and making sure that you have

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the diversity of having people care for you and listen to you.

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What are some ways that we can remind ourselves that we do have worth no matter

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how well things are on social media and how

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well we're I honestly think it takes practice if your

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personality is not one that leans itself toward resilience a natural resilience

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if you have to work hard at being resilient I think it takes practice and it

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does take intention everything takes intention and I realize that I'm using

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that word a lot in the podcast but we have to choose

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ourselves, okay?

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And when we choose ourselves, we have to treat ourselves as beautifully as we

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would treat someone else.

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If you had a dear friend who was not choosing themselves and you are trying

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to help them choose themselves, you better be setting a good role model for that.

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If you want the beautiful people in your artistic community to choose themselves

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and to choose health and to choose connection and to choose wellness and choose wellbeing.

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We have to learn how to do that for ourselves. And it takes practice. It does take reminders.

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I believe, you know, and, and I've got this thing on my wall that says,

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be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.

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And I literally read that every day.

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And I know we have this, there's this new, you know, you'll walk into a gift

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shop and they have all the little memes, you know, with the nice sayings and all that.

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And we surround ourselves with those things and we see them on social media.

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But I think we have to choose to apply this. It's not just reading them and

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smiling and say, oh, that's a nice thought.

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We have to choose to apply things to our lives, again, sort of with intention.

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So remembering our worth, it's being able to learn that measuring our worth

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isn't, you know, you have to start from a hundred percent. You have one life to live.

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You are 100% all the time, even if you don't feel like you're 100%. So what do I mean by that?

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We have to have an armor of resilience where we are choosing to and being attentional

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about social media and not, gosh, this is a really tough one.

334
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You know, again, we are not using social media as a place for validation.

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Maybe we're choosing it as a place of learning. Maybe we are choosing as a place

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of connection, But we cannot choose it as a place, again, to be the thing that

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fills our tank and our worth.

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I think there are a lot of probably better resources than me on this particular

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question. I really, really like Johan Hari's book, Lost Connections.

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I'm not a religious person, but for me, it's got some biblical wisdom.

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But he talks about how our worth is how we interact with the world.

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And it's not in social media, quite frankly. think about

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if once again you blow your

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tire on the side of a road at the middle of the night and you

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don't know how to change it but then someone comes along and fortunately

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they look safe and not like you know somebody who's gonna

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you know do something awful and and they help you change your tire and get back

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on your way that person just told you what they're worth they are a citizen

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of the world who helped someone who was stranded so if we think about how to

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build our worth you You know, if for some reason we don't feel worthy,

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then what measuring stick are we using?

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And so we have to think about how are we measuring? If we feel unworthy,

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what measuring stick are we using?

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Maybe the measuring stick of being in the world and being a human being who

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has something to give and something to contribute and being intentional about that contribution.

356
00:28:31,649 --> 00:28:37,209
That's what worth is actually about. Not likes, not hearts, not follows, not views, right?

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And that goes back to what you said about talking to yourself differently than

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how you would talk to someone you care about.

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That goes back to what you said about having a listening buddy and how helpful

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that could be because you typically will not talk to someone you care about

361
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in that negative way and just having that relationship to uplift each other.

362
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So I love that idea of a listening buddy and just helping you boost yourself

363
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up before you even get down to that point.

364
00:29:10,985 --> 00:29:18,765
Have you ever had a situation where you got really bad criticism or some sort

365
00:29:18,765 --> 00:29:23,985
of negative interaction with your community or someone you care about regarding

366
00:29:23,985 --> 00:29:27,125
one of your books that you wrote? Because I know you wrote a few books.

367
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And how did you handle that and not let it affect you? Oh, yes.

368
00:29:31,265 --> 00:29:34,465
Yes, I have had muchos criticism.

369
00:29:34,985 --> 00:29:40,425
Muchos. I love talking about this because I learned so much from being criticized.

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00:29:40,525 --> 00:29:46,025
So the very first fiction book I wrote, and it is now a series,

371
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is called The Dying Five, a hospice heroes mystery series.

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And I'm still writing a series about people who are at the end of their life

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who choose to use their last months to solve mysteries and solve crimes. times.

374
00:29:58,245 --> 00:30:01,965
So I didn't know anything about the publishing industry.

375
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I just wrote a book, right? And so I, you know, I said, oh, I guess I should query this book now.

376
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So I wrote a query letter, which is when you submit, you know,

377
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a pitch to literary agents to see if someone wants to pick up the book and sell it to a publisher.

378
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And so I thought, oh, gosh, you know, and again, Again, this was years ago,

379
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and I have no idea what I'm doing.

380
00:30:25,025 --> 00:30:28,205
So I put together the pitch. And, you know, as...

381
00:30:28,741 --> 00:30:33,521
The rejections came in, I wasn't learning anything because most of those rejections

382
00:30:33,521 --> 00:30:35,601
are what we call form reject rejections.

383
00:30:35,621 --> 00:30:38,781
You write a book and a literary agent doesn't want it.

384
00:30:38,861 --> 00:30:42,621
And they send you an automatic response back that basically says,

385
00:30:42,741 --> 00:30:43,901
thank you for your submission.

386
00:30:44,101 --> 00:30:48,401
I appreciate you considering me for your work, but this is not a good fit for me.

387
00:30:48,901 --> 00:30:52,961
There's no way for them to tell you why they get thousands of these hundreds

388
00:30:52,961 --> 00:30:56,701
a day. There just is not possible for them to give personalized feedback.

389
00:30:57,061 --> 00:31:02,381
But I did get personalized feedback from one literary agent who said,

390
00:31:02,601 --> 00:31:08,581
there's no way I could, no way I could sell a book about people who are dying,

391
00:31:08,701 --> 00:31:11,641
who spend their last months solving mysteries.

392
00:31:11,941 --> 00:31:15,641
No one would want to read that. No one would want to buy that book.

393
00:31:15,921 --> 00:31:19,161
And, and how else did she put it?

394
00:31:19,221 --> 00:31:24,321
I can't, she said, I can't even see anybody in hospice. Why would they do that?

395
00:31:24,661 --> 00:31:31,921
And so I said to myself, you know what? This person is a literary agent.

396
00:31:32,081 --> 00:31:36,161
They are an expert in selling and publishing books, but they are definitely

397
00:31:36,161 --> 00:31:38,081
not an expert in the human condition.

398
00:31:38,481 --> 00:31:44,141
And so I left with my pride intact and said, you know what?

399
00:31:44,741 --> 00:31:49,841
I'm just going to self-publish this book. I didn't query much on those books

400
00:31:49,841 --> 00:31:52,021
because I thought to myself.

401
00:31:52,966 --> 00:31:58,126
You know what? That's okay. And if that's the reason why this book is getting

402
00:31:58,126 --> 00:32:00,406
rejected, I only sent out 20 queries.

403
00:32:00,726 --> 00:32:04,046
I said, I love this book.

404
00:32:04,086 --> 00:32:10,386
And if I only have family and friends that read it, it's not my full-time job. I am okay with that.

405
00:32:11,026 --> 00:32:18,126
So I did suffer criticism. Now, Now, I see tons of people on social media who

406
00:32:18,126 --> 00:32:22,646
get criticism for their craft and, you know,

407
00:32:22,686 --> 00:32:27,946
they are full-time artists or they are full-time creatives or they are full-time writers.

408
00:32:28,186 --> 00:32:34,026
And so when you are criticizing someone's work and that's their full-time and

409
00:32:34,026 --> 00:32:38,826
their livelihood, it probably lands a lot differently than it does for someone

410
00:32:38,826 --> 00:32:42,566
like me who has a full-time job who writes on the side.

411
00:32:42,566 --> 00:32:46,806
So where your life station sometimes dictates your reaction.

412
00:32:47,166 --> 00:32:52,886
But I do think that even if being a creative is your full time job,

413
00:32:53,066 --> 00:32:54,486
like I mentioned before, I

414
00:32:54,486 --> 00:32:59,686
still think you have to get your validation bucket filled in other places.

415
00:32:59,886 --> 00:33:05,046
Right. So if you're a creative and the only thing that matters is selling your

416
00:33:05,046 --> 00:33:09,466
creative works as opposed to like Soda, what you do,

417
00:33:09,566 --> 00:33:12,986
which is what linked us together as I saw you on threads and that you actually

418
00:33:12,986 --> 00:33:16,066
draw cartoons for your podcast guests.

419
00:33:16,206 --> 00:33:19,446
I was out of my mind with excitement.

420
00:33:19,586 --> 00:33:28,566
I said, if she has me on or if they have me on their podcast and I get a cartoon.

421
00:33:28,826 --> 00:33:33,446
I'm I'm going to be the happiest MFR in the whole world because that to me is

422
00:33:33,446 --> 00:33:37,806
just the most beautiful gift to have, you know, so anyway,

423
00:33:37,966 --> 00:33:43,366
that's, that's a sidebar, but that, you know, that lifted me up the thought

424
00:33:43,366 --> 00:33:45,806
and then you and I started talking and I just,

425
00:33:45,866 --> 00:33:50,206
I have stayed so lifted up and ready to do this podcast with you because I'm

426
00:33:50,206 --> 00:33:53,226
getting a cartoon and that is such a gift.

427
00:33:53,226 --> 00:33:58,906
And so I think when we see our hard work as a gift to the world,

428
00:33:59,006 --> 00:34:05,206
if we can reframe the work we're doing and accept the praise,

429
00:34:05,466 --> 00:34:07,826
people have such a hard time accepting praise.

430
00:34:07,926 --> 00:34:12,626
And that hurts my heart so much because it is absolutely well intended. ended.

431
00:34:12,726 --> 00:34:17,966
So everybody focuses on that one bad review or that one person who didn't like,

432
00:34:17,966 --> 00:34:24,026
and when you've got 75% good, 25% doesn't make you happy in terms of the criticism.

433
00:34:24,506 --> 00:34:27,626
We are putting all of our energy in the wrong bucket.

434
00:34:27,766 --> 00:34:32,886
Let that good feedback, let people being lifted up by your gifts,

435
00:34:32,966 --> 00:34:36,466
fill you up till you're spilling over.

436
00:34:36,666 --> 00:34:42,226
Then there's no room for the bad Yeah, when I see people who have my little

437
00:34:42,226 --> 00:34:47,306
cartoons as their profile picture or something like that and just excited about it, sharing it.

438
00:34:47,709 --> 00:34:53,069
It doesn't necessarily make me feel worthy, but it lifts me up.

439
00:34:53,149 --> 00:34:58,969
So I try to do that where I don't base my worth on praise or negative feedback,

440
00:34:59,149 --> 00:35:01,549
but it does get you excited.

441
00:35:01,709 --> 00:35:07,689
And I know with AI and everything, a lot of creatives are feeling extremely

442
00:35:07,689 --> 00:35:10,409
distraught because they're like, oh, I'm being replaced.

443
00:35:10,509 --> 00:35:14,749
My feed is being flooded with things made by AI instead of me.

444
00:35:14,749 --> 00:35:19,989
And that's been a huge, huge part of a lot of this distress.

445
00:35:20,109 --> 00:35:25,289
But what you were saying of diversifying your validation, your worth,

446
00:35:25,409 --> 00:35:31,369
your excitement is, I believe that's the most important thing creatives can do.

447
00:35:31,889 --> 00:35:37,189
And I know you mentioned you volunteer, you do a couple other things.

448
00:35:37,189 --> 00:35:45,949
How has really getting out of your creative bubble helped you with confidence, with that self-worth?

449
00:35:46,089 --> 00:35:50,969
And how can we get the courage to do that when we're, I know we talked a little

450
00:35:50,969 --> 00:35:56,289
bit about this earlier, but I know for a lot of us, it is so scary to get out

451
00:35:56,289 --> 00:36:00,309
of our houses, especially like for me. I just moved here. I don't know people.

452
00:36:00,469 --> 00:36:03,709
So I'd love to hear your thoughts about actually getting out of your houses,

453
00:36:03,729 --> 00:36:08,409
having face-to-face connections, and how that could give us confidence in our

454
00:36:08,409 --> 00:36:09,909
life and in our creativity.

455
00:36:10,309 --> 00:36:13,649
This is such a timely question for me because during COVID,

456
00:36:13,769 --> 00:36:18,309
I was one of those people who really enjoyed staying home and working from home

457
00:36:18,309 --> 00:36:23,909
and being in my bubble and writing and creating and just doing all this really

458
00:36:23,909 --> 00:36:26,209
jazzy stuff with my brain all by myself.

459
00:36:26,449 --> 00:36:29,389
And then everything lifted, right?

460
00:36:29,469 --> 00:36:34,929
COVID lifted and the restrictions or whatever, we were supposed to stay home lifted.

461
00:36:35,649 --> 00:36:38,909
And I found myself getting phone calls to do that.

462
00:36:38,969 --> 00:36:44,069
I'm someone who has spoken nationally on these subjects of mental health and suicide prevention.

463
00:36:44,309 --> 00:36:48,729
And I was getting all kinds of requests and COVID hits.

464
00:36:48,829 --> 00:36:52,509
And then I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm at home. I'm not traveling.

465
00:36:52,769 --> 00:36:56,509
I love this. I am thrilled to be in a bubble.

466
00:36:56,769 --> 00:37:00,969
And then COVID lifted and I felt my heels dug in.

467
00:37:01,389 --> 00:37:08,189
I didn't want to accept having to go back out.

468
00:37:08,269 --> 00:37:10,409
And then I started to get socially phobic.

469
00:37:10,569 --> 00:37:14,109
I didn't want to go to the grocery store. I didn't want to go anywhere.

470
00:37:14,369 --> 00:37:18,049
I felt, and it wasn't a COVID thing. I wasn't afraid of getting,

471
00:37:18,129 --> 00:37:21,529
you know, well, I mean, I had a healthy level of fear of getting COVID.

472
00:37:21,649 --> 00:37:26,349
But, you know, I wasn't afraid that something bad was going to happen related

473
00:37:26,349 --> 00:37:29,049
to COVID. I was just afraid to be around people again.

474
00:37:29,189 --> 00:37:32,929
It's like I almost had to redo being in public.

475
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:37,029
And so now, like, I just gave a talk last week, I'm getting ready to give another

476
00:37:37,029 --> 00:37:40,789
talk. So my answer to your question is baby steps, baby steps.

477
00:37:41,462 --> 00:37:45,122
In mental health, we have a therapy. It's called exposure therapy.

478
00:37:45,382 --> 00:37:49,102
And we use this a lot for people with anxieties and with panic.

479
00:37:49,142 --> 00:37:51,202
So social anxiety, panic disorder.

480
00:37:51,522 --> 00:37:58,162
So essentially, you dip that one tiny toe in the end of the pool where if you

481
00:37:58,162 --> 00:38:00,422
fell in, you could get back out, right?

482
00:38:00,502 --> 00:38:02,882
You're not in the deep end, right?

483
00:38:03,062 --> 00:38:05,762
You're in the shallow end. You're in three feet of water, right?

484
00:38:05,822 --> 00:38:11,022
But you dip your toe in first. So that might mean committing to and being intentional

485
00:38:11,022 --> 00:38:18,502
about attending a small gathering of friends or creatives or an event, right?

486
00:38:18,782 --> 00:38:24,042
And preparing yourself, breathing, but or it could be just a small dinner party.

487
00:38:24,142 --> 00:38:27,162
It could be, you know, but being very intentional. intentional

488
00:38:27,162 --> 00:38:29,902
i'm not saying you have to host it yourself i'm not

489
00:38:29,902 --> 00:38:33,042
saying that you have to go to a

490
00:38:33,042 --> 00:38:35,962
big you know a game or something where they're surrounded

491
00:38:35,962 --> 00:38:39,302
by thousands of people dip your toe in and then

492
00:38:39,302 --> 00:38:42,482
dip your toe in a little further make it a little bit of a bigger event and

493
00:38:42,482 --> 00:38:47,762
so on and so forth have a buddy right have a buddy go with you have an escape

494
00:38:47,762 --> 00:38:53,142
plan right you know like have all these things but you've got to do it you've

495
00:38:53,142 --> 00:38:57,082
got to do it because connection In suicide prevention.

496
00:38:57,502 --> 00:39:03,142
If we know anything, there are two things that work the best.

497
00:39:03,402 --> 00:39:09,482
The first is always going to be means restriction, removing the means of someone

498
00:39:09,482 --> 00:39:13,182
being able to take their own life. But the second thing is connection.

499
00:39:14,322 --> 00:39:19,542
Connection is the strongest, most powerful protective factor against suicide.

500
00:39:19,942 --> 00:39:25,162
So people not just knowing that they're not alone, which is a double negative,

501
00:39:25,342 --> 00:39:29,362
you know, knowing that they, but also being able to connect and belong somewhere.

502
00:39:29,362 --> 00:39:32,902
Somewhere so finding community right and

503
00:39:32,902 --> 00:39:36,162
it could be in the unlikeliest of places

504
00:39:36,162 --> 00:39:40,222
you mentioned earlier before we started the podcast you're part of a mom i think

505
00:39:40,222 --> 00:39:44,902
a mom's group so i assume there are other moms in that group you share stories

506
00:39:44,902 --> 00:39:50,822
storytelling is so powerful so if you can find community where people are telling

507
00:39:50,822 --> 00:39:54,942
their stories that helps you to not only feel like you're not alone,

508
00:39:55,242 --> 00:40:00,362
but it may also help you answer questions that you didn't even know you had, right?

509
00:40:00,702 --> 00:40:06,282
So one thing I made a note of is how creatives can start mental health conversations,

510
00:40:06,502 --> 00:40:08,542
and that is through storytelling.

511
00:40:08,842 --> 00:40:11,842
What helped someone in their recovery journey?

512
00:40:12,062 --> 00:40:16,442
So when we talk to our listening buddies, or when we talk to our therapist,

513
00:40:16,622 --> 00:40:19,522
or when we talk to our friends, or when we talk to our families,

514
00:40:19,762 --> 00:40:25,242
we can tell them all about what's wrong, and we can also So tell them what's

515
00:40:25,242 --> 00:40:29,502
going right, but we should also talk about what has helped.

516
00:40:30,282 --> 00:40:33,322
So when you've had a panic attack, what's helped bring you out?

517
00:40:33,602 --> 00:40:36,182
What's helped you heal from that?

518
00:40:36,582 --> 00:40:41,322
What are the things that are in your coping toolbox, your mental health toolbox?

519
00:40:41,602 --> 00:40:43,142
Those things could help somebody else.

520
00:40:43,722 --> 00:40:49,682
So I think, you know, in terms of final thoughts for me, it's about if you cut

521
00:40:49,682 --> 00:40:51,682
yourself, and I don't mean self-harm.

522
00:40:51,782 --> 00:40:54,942
I just mean if you accidentally, because self-harm is a whole other conversation.

523
00:40:54,942 --> 00:41:00,902
But if you accidentally injure yourself, that part of your body hurts really, really bad. Okay.

524
00:41:01,362 --> 00:41:04,342
And you're going to do everything you can to protect it from like getting dirt

525
00:41:04,342 --> 00:41:06,962
in it. You know, like you put a bandaid or a bandage on there.

526
00:41:07,302 --> 00:41:11,282
And we're so focused on the pain of that place where we injured ourselves.

527
00:41:11,382 --> 00:41:13,562
We forget that the rest of our body is doing okay.

528
00:41:13,922 --> 00:41:18,462
The rest of our body is feeling pretty good. Right. We're so focused on the place that hurts.

529
00:41:19,282 --> 00:41:24,062
So I think taking that into our mental health, we tend to focus so much on the

530
00:41:24,062 --> 00:41:28,302
hurt in our heart or the hurt that our depression causes or the hurt that our

531
00:41:28,302 --> 00:41:32,442
anxiety causes, that that's all we can think about and we stay so focused on it.

532
00:41:32,502 --> 00:41:37,702
So if we have a diversified emotional or mental health portfolio where we get

533
00:41:37,702 --> 00:41:41,622
our tanks filled in these different places, we can go and we can spend time

534
00:41:41,622 --> 00:41:45,902
with older adults at the agency or the nursing home or whatever.

535
00:41:45,902 --> 00:41:49,622
Or we can spend time with the rescue animals, or we can spend time,

536
00:41:49,622 --> 00:41:52,062
you know, volunteering or giving back to our communities,

537
00:41:52,182 --> 00:41:57,362
being in that role is going to take us out of that place of pain where we're

538
00:41:57,362 --> 00:41:59,942
only focused on our pain and realize that the rest of our body,

539
00:42:00,002 --> 00:42:03,682
the rest of our hearts, the rest of our minds are fully capable of giving and

540
00:42:03,682 --> 00:42:06,022
fully capable of loving and being loved.

541
00:42:06,162 --> 00:42:09,942
So I guess if I'm going to kind of wrap it up on that point,

542
00:42:09,982 --> 00:42:11,902
that that would be a good place to do it. Yeah.

543
00:42:12,493 --> 00:42:18,793
That's such an important point. And I just want to thank you again for coming on about this.

544
00:42:18,873 --> 00:42:23,693
This could be a very difficult subject to talk about.

545
00:42:23,933 --> 00:42:28,093
And I'm glad that you're out there advocating because so many of us,

546
00:42:28,093 --> 00:42:32,793
we don't know what to do when we are at this point and we don't know where to turn.

547
00:42:32,973 --> 00:42:40,213
And I love the suggestions of having a listening buddy, diversifying your self-worth,

548
00:42:40,213 --> 00:42:46,693
your praise, and just really having that love for yourself the way you would love someone else.

549
00:42:46,813 --> 00:42:51,393
So thank you again. Where can people find you if they want to follow you,

550
00:42:51,493 --> 00:42:53,513
want to read any of your books?

551
00:42:53,693 --> 00:42:55,853
Do you mind just finishing up with that?

552
00:42:56,813 --> 00:43:01,153
Yeah, yeah. I'll put one little plug in for some mental health resources for folks.

553
00:43:01,273 --> 00:43:06,233
So obviously, I mentioned this earlier, but if someone is in suicide crisis,

554
00:43:06,313 --> 00:43:07,853
since we talked about suicide today.

555
00:43:08,073 --> 00:43:11,493
The National Suicide Prevention and Crisis Lifeline is 988.

556
00:43:11,653 --> 00:43:16,273
If you're a veteran, you dial 1-988 and then you hit 1. That would be the Veterans Crisis Line.

557
00:43:17,093 --> 00:43:20,553
There's also the Crisis Text Line, which you can essentially,

558
00:43:20,793 --> 00:43:22,153
you can text almost any word.

559
00:43:22,313 --> 00:43:27,013
You can text HOPE, HOME, START, all in capitals to 741741.

560
00:43:27,753 --> 00:43:30,953
I would recommend the National Alliance on Mental Illness, NAMI.

561
00:43:31,053 --> 00:43:34,153
I would recommend Mental Health America for resources.

562
00:43:34,753 --> 00:43:38,133
Both of those organizations have local chapters in every state.

563
00:43:38,233 --> 00:43:42,433
So you should be able to find someplace near you where they will offer resources and support.

564
00:43:43,013 --> 00:43:47,813
There are community mental health centers that will see people on a sliding fee scale.

565
00:43:48,133 --> 00:43:52,273
So community mental health centers can, if you're an artist or creative and

566
00:43:52,273 --> 00:43:55,773
you're living off of very minimal means, you don't have a lot of income,

567
00:43:55,953 --> 00:43:58,653
you may not have insurance or your insurance isn't that

568
00:43:59,062 --> 00:44:03,702
stupendous. Your local community mental health center should have sliding fee

569
00:44:03,702 --> 00:44:06,762
scales so that you can get some professional help if needed.

570
00:44:07,122 --> 00:44:12,202
We did talk about listening buddies. So I will say that folks can find me on

571
00:44:12,202 --> 00:44:16,262
almost any social media platform, but I do so many different things that all

572
00:44:16,262 --> 00:44:17,762
my social media has different.

573
00:44:17,922 --> 00:44:23,002
It's like, I don't have any consistency, which makes creating a brand really difficult.

574
00:44:23,042 --> 00:44:26,022
And everybody, all my, all the people in publicity, even my daughter,

575
00:44:26,022 --> 00:44:29,162
or who's got a PR degree shakes her finger at me, you've got to develop a brand.

576
00:44:29,382 --> 00:44:32,642
My brand is just being whatever people need me to be, you know?

577
00:44:32,822 --> 00:44:36,542
So I am at jenniferwrightberryman.com.

578
00:44:36,762 --> 00:44:37,702
That's my website.

579
00:44:38,022 --> 00:44:44,102
Jennifer with two N's, W-R-I-G-H-T-B-E-R-R-Y-M-A-N.com, jenniferwrightberryman.com.

580
00:44:44,322 --> 00:44:49,362
On my website, you'll see my books, but you'll also see I have a blog. I need to update it.

581
00:44:49,802 --> 00:44:53,262
I'm also on Substack. If you Google me, you'll find everything,

582
00:44:53,362 --> 00:44:56,582
all my academic publishing, some of the talks I've given.

583
00:44:56,682 --> 00:45:01,922
I did a TEDx a while back, and that's up as well. That TEDx is about suicide prevention.

584
00:45:02,542 --> 00:45:09,042
You can find me at Jen L. Berry on Instagram threads, and then my full name,

585
00:45:09,122 --> 00:45:10,102
Jennifer Wright Berryman with

586
00:45:10,102 --> 00:45:14,222
a hyphen on Facebook, and probably somewhere else. I'm also on TikTok.

587
00:45:14,342 --> 00:45:18,862
So, and I will have all of that in the show notes.

588
00:45:18,902 --> 00:45:23,222
So I'm sure people will want to follow you after to this.

589
00:45:23,362 --> 00:45:26,462
So thank you again for all that.

590
00:45:26,662 --> 00:45:31,882
And thank you to everyone who took the time to listen to this important message.

591
00:45:32,202 --> 00:45:39,402
Remember, you are valuable, you are worthy of love, and you have so much potential.

592
00:45:39,662 --> 00:45:44,182
To learn more about this podcast and for social media links,

593
00:45:44,302 --> 00:45:47,382
you can go to thesuccesspalette.com.

594
00:45:47,642 --> 00:45:50,882
Let's work together to make this a successful week.

595
00:45:51,920 --> 00:46:10,075
Music.