Episode 103: The Suffering of A Podcast Producer

Kevin Donaldson: 0:00

This is gonna hurt. It's time for the suffering podcast. The crystallization of a vision can seem like an impossible task. Taking what you see in your head, and turning it into reality is a universal struggle that the majority wrestle with trying to create something out of the ether, and wishing our ideas into existence. It is difficult to allow another inside your head to rework your thoughts and ideas, allowing them to raise your baby with the hopes that they can do a better job that is beyond your capabilities, trusting that their talent can complement your dreams are our modern day alchemists who work in the medium of creation, taking those thoughts and ideas in your head, shaping them until they are something beautiful, turning that caterpillar in your mind into a beautiful butterfly. I'm Kevin Donaldson here with Mike Felice. And on this episode of the suffering podcast we welcome in our very own Andrew Santiago Leone.

A. Santiago: 0:58

Appreciate it. Appreciate it, guys

Kevin Donaldson: 0:59

to talk about the suffering of a Podcast Producer. Andrew has a unique ability to turn the ordinary into magic. And that's why we wanted to have you in and we were just talking about you on Instagram Live. Appreciate and

Mike Failace: 1:11

if you notice, we don't have headphones on today because we don't have a man behind the glass and we don't have to talk to anybody.

A. Santiago: 1:15

I actually broke through the glass. Okay, so we don't even have a glass anymore in studio. I just broke right through it after the IG live.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:21

Drew, how do we sell? That's right, you're right here. Drew, how do we It's

A. Santiago: 1:24

tough. It's tough. It's tough. I'm trying my best. But

Kevin Donaldson: 1:26

you know, we've been looking for a way to get you in here because you have certain sufferings that go on within your business that people don't realize you're, you're like a hairdresser in the media world where people just come in and say, Make me look beautiful.

A. Santiago: 1:40

Yeah, what can what can I do to make it to make it shine? Yeah, how do I shine? How do I shine

Kevin Donaldson: 1:45

and you just just make it work? I've done that to you several times. Before we get into anything. Let's get into our marquee sponsor. That's Toyota of Hackensack. We buy our cars from Toyota, because we really don't trust anybody. So go to Toyota hackensack.com and let them find you a car. So Drew, we've known each other for a little time. And, you know, let's go back to the beginning of how we met it was it was a very serendipitous, serendipitous

Mike Failace: 2:08

Evans,

Kevin Donaldson: 2:08

this type of

Mike Failace: 2:10

fire episode nine serendipitous, serendipitous

Kevin Donaldson: 2:13

hashtag this in the front of the pot, we got to throw that one out for deposit. But Mike and I were doing something for blue magazine. Yes. And you actually I think I started talking to Kathy first because you were in the room recording. That is correct. And Kathy, and I got into it about,

A. Santiago: 2:29

you know, you guys had just came back from Florida, that you guys had just came back from Florida.

Kevin Donaldson: 2:35

Yeah. And we were all of our friends. Like we knew everybody there. We got to talking to you. We're in a room recording. So I was talking to Kathy and I was kind of breaking her chops a little bit about she's talking about women have it worse. And she I just grabbed on to it. And I said, you know, my wife gave birth to two kids and I didn't feel a damn thing. Everybody says childbirth and just bow.

Mike Failace: 2:54

And I said, Listen to kids came out of me first and it didn't feel that bad. Yeah, well,

A. Santiago: 2:57

we have a little bit more enjoyment. When they came down. It was a little bit easier to kind of go through with us. Most of us anyway. They're

Kevin Donaldson: 3:06

not me. I faked everywhere against you fake,

Mike Failace: 3:08

still fake. So girls can get pregnant from spit.

A. Santiago: 3:13

Oh, man. So we know we have like a certain mark. Before we get into the show and 30 seconds. I'm gonna blow right fast. I still producer I'm gonna be fixing that. Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Mike.

Kevin Donaldson: 3:27

But you came out of the room. And we met for the first time and you said, and we just started talking about audio equipment. We talked about the podcast and whatever. You asked me what kind of microphones I use

A. Santiago: 3:38

immediately.

Kevin Donaldson: 3:41

Well, I, the owner and operator of AJ Media Studios, and you showed me a picture. You showed me all this stuff. And I was like, huh, wow, that's something something pretty interesting. So tell us a little bit about yourself. You know, the audience knows way too much about Mike and I. So why don't you tell

A. Santiago: 3:58

me to know a good amount, a good amount about and every week that you guys tune in? It's even better because all the work that's been put in, we appreciate. So

Kevin Donaldson: 4:06

I've, I've said it numerous times that my relaxed time, my fun time and doing this podcast is when the lights go on the cameras start. And we can just because all the works done?

Mike Failace: 4:16

Yes. Well, when the lights go on, that's when he has to work.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:19

Right? It's it's the reverse for you. When the lights go on. That's when your stress level goes up.

A. Santiago: 4:23

That's when I have to turn around and say okay, well, it's anybody who's working behind the board. First off, if they're really working with your show, really working with your podcasts, they're going to turn around and they take should be taken notes that's just going to make your life a little bit easier in the future. Because realistically, it's could be little small things maybe, you know, we all have the scratch or something.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:44

So that's my thing. I have these little itches come up always when I fix my headphones.

A. Santiago: 4:49

Yeah, yeah. So when you see those things, the differences we kind of cut live. So when you see those things, you really have to be prepared. And then once you get used to listening to people and You know how they're going to end your sentence, especially if it's somebody new that you just met? Then you're just kind of like, okay, this is you have to kind of catch the rhythm of speech.

Kevin Donaldson: 5:08

Well, so I know a little bit about that. Because when we used to be on audio, and I would have to go in and edit with Mike and I, I knew everything I knew the speech patterns, I could, I could almost see the matrix since Yes, yeah, I can see everything. And I imagine over time that happens with you, but where did you start? Well,

A. Santiago: 5:28

it all started truth, truth in my heart, music artists, making music making videos you see in the videos, right? So I love I love it. And somewhere around the age of about an 1819, I realized I didn't have the right binocular to speak to an editor behind the board. I just couldn't. I had these ideas. And when you have ideas in your mind, you can't i can't speak them. I'm trying to tell them that I need this effect, or I need this. I need that.

Mike Failace: 5:53

You know the effect but you can't verbalize it.

A. Santiago: 5:55

I can't. I can't so imagine trying to create something. And you know that the tools are out there. But you have no way of explaining what you're looking for.

Kevin Donaldson: 6:04

But your Paterson kid, right? Yeah. So did you get the echo like, I want the echo of a bullet off of the

A. Santiago: 6:09

echo delay all this all missing? Patterson was I believe

Mike Failace: 6:14

in plenty of places so the sirens around.

A. Santiago: 6:17

You know, that's Patterson's home bringing Patterson, Wayne and want to cue Haskell for a little bit. We've actually moved around for quite a little bit. I always give a shout out to all my cities because I'd be like, well, you lived in Paterson for this time you lived in Haskell, I've seen parts of New Jersey all over. So from the country to the city, you get different experiences and different lives. So

Mike Failace: 6:37

I didn't hear any country in any of those town that was a high school country.

A. Santiago: 6:40

High School High School is a little country,

Kevin Donaldson: 6:42

from Paterson from Paterson, there's like one three batters High School

A. Santiago: 6:46

to want to queue like, it was a big change. If you go from kids walking into the bodega and the corners to all of a sudden there's kids riding bikes, going fishing, crab fishing, something I've never done before where the mayor pulls up and he's just like, hey, where are you guys going? Oh, here you go. Go have some fun here goes some passes go fishing. That's never happened in Paterson regardless of who's the mayor no offense any mayor when was the last time a mayor pulled up any person in Paterson was just like, there goes some fishing passes go behind Kennedy and have fun. Like, well, that's

Kevin Donaldson: 7:20

pretty cool. I never thought of it. I've never thought of it that way. But in a lot of ways

Mike Failace: 7:24

kids bike riding the bike stealing.

Kevin Donaldson: 7:27

But in a lot of ways the people in Paterson have a little bit extra advantage because there's so many programs and I've seen this firsthand. There's so many different programs that are set up for the youth in Paterson and it's sort of to keep them out of the bed element of Paterson and there's there's funds available. There's financing available. You know how to again, I've seen the video and it's like a color me bed type of whiteboard. Right.

A. Santiago: 7:51

So first First thing first that was my first ever music video shot

Kevin Donaldson: 7:55

illegally in Paterson.

A. Santiago: 7:57

I did it all freehand shout out to shout out to my boy, Johnny. I'm gonna give him a shout out Johnny was the first one to say hey, I'll go with you. While we were driving, and he was holding the camera. And like I had this idea. But rather than hesitate and wait on it. I said why not just do it? I mean, why wait? Right. I have the tools. I have a camera right? What else do I need? I have a camera and have a song.

Kevin Donaldson: 8:19

It's pretty damn good for your first shout out.

A. Santiago: 8:21

It's not bad, though. It's the fun thing about that video to the way I was able to kind of lip sync the whole thing. I was playing the music to my phone in my back pocket. I tech yet well listen, I found the way right. Because I was like, Well, how where there's a will there's a way? Yeah, so I put it right in my back pocket. And if you notice, like anybody who watches the video, if you notice, there's a scene where I'm sitting on the bridge by the Burger King. Yes. Behind me is my phone the whole time. Just playing out like it is what it is I made it happen. But I had to learn how to speak basically, I had to learn how to speak what I was doing at the time I was actually with a group. And it was very different because the producer at the time didn't really support me learning how to record or edit. Well, isn't

Kevin Donaldson: 9:06

that the isn't that the way of most people in charge your you do things a lot differently. I will say that but most people in charge want to kind of keep their the people in the dark a little bit and sort of solidifies their value.

Mike Failace: 9:17

Yeah, they don't. So you don't take their job. Exactly.

A. Santiago: 9:20

Well, I mean, yes, I could understand that. Like if you know how to edit them. What's to stop you from saying, hey, I need a hiring a editing engineer. Right? But realistically, at the time, when we were in a group, I was like, this is for the betterment of the team. If somebody knows how to edit and clean up the tracks, then that's a win. Now our tracks sound better. Now the music sounds better. Now we could produce more. So after a while, you know, obviously it clashes a little bit. What do you do? It was great. Shake hands walk away. That's it. And then I started my own thing. Well, what was

Kevin Donaldson: 9:54

the age when you walked away from say, quote unquote music business? Oh, you're never

A. Santiago: 10:00

left. Yeah, I never really Yeah, I don't want to really say I left as a vocalist, let's say, as a vocalist, I kind of strayed away from doing shows where people would say, hey, we want you on the show. We want you to come perform live. I got to the age where I was like, Well, I've done quite a few shows. I've done parades. I've done festivals, I've done all these things, how much? Now the moment you turn around, and you tell somebody how much what happens?

Kevin Donaldson: 10:28

They're like, Well, you're

A. Santiago: 10:28

not that good. It's like, well, you know, you get your promotion. If you sell 20 tickets, you'll make this much and this is how much money you get in your pocket. It was like, but you just told me that for your venue. I did great. Be in fact that you want me back. Right? So if you want somebody back, they did a good job. Yeah, clearly I entertained the crowd that was there. That's all it is.

Kevin Donaldson: 10:51

So you you grew up in and I know this from speaking to you so much that your father was police officer?

A. Santiago: 10:57

Yes. Over 20 years, Paterson PD.

Kevin Donaldson: 10:59

And so he you fit into our group, you know, we're not inclusive to police officers. But

Mike Failace: 11:06

that's why we let them in our group. Yeah, that makes sense.

Kevin Donaldson: 11:09

families, families are always the our extended families always become part of our little group. So it was a good fit. When we finally came to the studio. But you move on from where did you did you go to school for audio?

A. Santiago: 11:25

Yes, I graduated from New York Institute of audio research. I was the big Hey, I'm like stepping out on my own. I'm going to learn this either way. And I went for nine months in New York going back and forth. And it was probably one of the best nine months when it came to music and meeting people and shaking hands that you could do. I love New York.

Kevin Donaldson: 11:43

So you fit in there. Because a lot of times you want to do something you get involved in it. And it's just not for you

A. Santiago: 11:50

know, I I've enjoyed every minute going when you when you go out there and you're like in the city. That's one thing I love about New York, it's alive. So every time you're going in, you're like, oh, this person is doing this. There's never anything dry happening. You know, we were out there just a couple of weeks ago. We did pop. That's right. And you see all these movements. Elmos walking around you and all this other nonsense and you're like only only in New York. And I always find it interesting, because look how many talented people between New York, New York and New Jersey live, right? Or talented? And they all have this idea. I'm like we live right next to New York. Everybody probably

Mike Failace: 12:25

moved to New York to become a star.

Kevin Donaldson: 12:27

Exactly. Well, people. There's a mass of people in New York who believe that they're talented. Yes. Yeah. Okay, there. There's the difference. And I see real talent in the in some of the some of the shows that have happened in Central Park. I've seen some real talent in there. But I've also seen Elmo with the hat flipped back in the underwear sticking out of the back.

A. Santiago: 12:48

You know, New York is tough. At the end of the day, New York is tough. But if you can make a

Mike Failace: 12:53

dent, they'll chew you up and spit you out in New York. If you're?

A. Santiago: 12:56

Well, that's the thing about the industry in general, right? The suffering podcast, we're going on over 100 episodes. Right? We're

Kevin Donaldson: 13:04

up to 106 record 106 recorded.

A. Santiago: 13:08

We say it all the time. Whenever there's IG live, you guys say both all the time. Most episodes don't make it past a certain number me kappa six are past eight. To really make it you have to keep pushing. There's no stopping. You have to keep pushing. So even the people in New York, whether artists or whatever it is, you have to keep pushing.

Kevin Donaldson: 13:28

But there's there's oddities. There's oddities in that entertainment business, and I'm talking to entertainment, like the people who walk around Central Park or not Central Park The Time Square in the Superman costume. I'm on I was in there a couple of weeks ago and I'm on the phone with my youngest boy and I'm like, Hey, there's spider man taking a piss in a corner.

Mike Failace: 13:46

You get the Naked Cowboy over there

A. Santiago: 13:47

to write Naked Cowboy the name is still around. That's enough for nothing. Think about that guy. So

Kevin Donaldson: 13:53

it's 60 years old,

A. Santiago: 13:54

but that man came to New York. He was like, You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna play a guitar in a cowboy hat, my underwear and a pair of boots. And he became a New York attraction and they were like, Oh, look, it's the Naked Cowboy like dead

Mike Failace: 14:07

a winter to

Kevin Donaldson: 14:08

he made to the the what was that? I want to be a rock star video. Nickelback Nickelback. He was in a Nickelback video. Yeah,

A. Santiago: 14:16

so if you like it's that same drive and dedication that people are willing to do something as crazy as that but the he still technically speaking made it Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. You know, you think about that gimmick. It's

Mike Failace: 14:29

tough getting caught on

Kevin Donaldson: 14:31

as Alicia Keys says if you can make it there you can make it any way.

Mike Failace: 14:35

You want to know that would that was the best thing or ever that

A. Santiago: 14:39

Frank Sinatra even star Frank Sinatra? Carrots to make it here? Come on. It's played at every Yankees game. That doesn't mean anything. How many championships? I mean, something was

Mike Failace: 14:51

Elvis songs that he played

Kevin Donaldson: 14:52

uh, yeah, I want to I once had an argument. We know

A. Santiago: 14:55

what it is Mike. Too little conversation.

Kevin Donaldson: 14:57

I once had Alaska. I once had an argument with Somebody who's who who is better than I noticed off topic. Yes. Who's better? Bruce Springsteen or Billy Joel? Somebody actually brought that argument up. Okay. So in New Jersey, probably Bruce Springsteen, the rest of the country, Bruce Springsteen has nothing. I'm telling you now he's nothing. Billy Joel is internationally known Yes. And go to one of his concerts it's an old man wine in versus three hours of greatest hits. So no man says it all you graduate and do you jump into a recording studio Do you get it I

A. Santiago: 15:33

opened up mines immediately you open up yours

Kevin Donaldson: 15:35

and when he's in a

A. Santiago: 15:36

meet immediately when I graduated I opened up in the front of my deck where it used to live I built a room immediately on the side and opened up Soak City really have a Soak City productions Soak City Pro

Kevin Donaldson: 15:48

is what it started as I've seen that on a couple of videos.

A. Santiago: 15:52

So excited for city pro entertainment

Kevin Donaldson: 15:54

because as I was looking at this studios were looking to go on video I did my research on the I knew a little bit of research. I have to

Mike Failace: 16:01

I'm gonna get we're gonna still so excited city bro from you.

A. Santiago: 16:05

Well, it's so so so excited productions was already so shout out to whoever has so excited productions. So I went with Stoke City pro entertainment. We're so city underwear. Stoke City on the were so smooth you have to wear Yes, yeah, it's

Kevin Donaldson: 16:17

glide off.

A. Santiago: 16:18

Yeah, it just goes it's

Mike Failace: 16:20

sanded off the chairs.

Kevin Donaldson: 16:21

Now you you start this new business. What is there's there's always an immediate lesson that you learn that you couldn't see coming.

A. Santiago: 16:32

An immediate lesson you

Kevin Donaldson: 16:33

there's always an whatever, you're starting something out on your own. There's always an immediate something

Mike Failace: 16:37

needed. Think about. Yeah, didn't think about that. Oh,

A. Santiago: 16:41

um, I think it was something crazy. I think the first lesson that I ever truly learned. What's probably it's done but the window in a studio.

Kevin Donaldson: 16:55

I know everybody can't see it. But there's a window between us and the control rig. So we control room. Yes. And that's how you can watch the action going on. Make sure your your cuts are right.

A. Santiago: 17:09

Listen, there's a few things I could tell you that I learned off the bat as a recording and editing and working with people. There's so many things off the bat. But I think one of my most it was a silly thing. But for some reason. We're building a boat. We have everything right, the door closes and everything's good. And then I realized I was like, Well, how am I supposed to see them? Nothing on it. I went to school, I know that they had a window, we had everything. So we did put a window in but the window was, um, this is how you know, it's one of the first studios. It was literally a window. You know when that you could live and

Kevin Donaldson: 17:45

so you'd like talk to them for like two to seven talk. Yeah, I

A. Santiago: 17:47

was just like, hey, guys, we're good. But you know, the first the first studio I built on was actually really meant for me to record my first album. Well, not my first album, but like my first Soak City album. That's really what it was meant for. So I was teaching Johnny, behind the board to Work Day record. I was learning, even though they showed you proper mic placement. You're dealing with different kind of mics, different kind of equipment, different kinds of positions. And then you go through and you start the editing process and the editing process, you start really understanding what's going on how come there's clicks, these pops, headphone leakage coming through, and you're like, Whoa, I need to do it again. And now you're like, Man, I go back in there go back into session, he record that data, or even worse when you lay down a good track and somebody forgot to hit record. That's probably even the worst thing was like so wait a sec, there's something wrong. We've had that

Mike Failace: 18:42

on pocket. We're just gonna say I was just gonna bring that up. I forgot the

A. Santiago: 18:45

record. It was on one time I remember and Johnny I know he's gonna watch this. I mean, one of them one time Johnny. I had him set up the mic, like go into the studio. I go into studio I can't hear him or pardon he can't hear me He's just coming in really low data. So I take a look at the mic and he had it backwards Okay, I just look at what happens problems problem

Mike Failace: 19:13

solved problems. Well

Kevin Donaldson: 19:14

isn't that what you you've become now is a problem so because there's always problems this this this cord came on plugged, you forgot to switch over here you forgot to put this setting here. And all you become as this giant problem solver.

A. Santiago: 19:30

I like well when you can fix any problem that's a great thing. Anytime I really kind of see what we do more as creation more as creating I've always said I believe it because when you guys come down with an idea what you want to do for your next show. It's something new every time

Kevin Donaldson: 19:46

by the way, the ideas that filter into You are nothing like what him and I talk about. It's something completely different. We had one the other day that which I think is a good episode. Okay, I think it's a great app. So because everybody does it, but what is it? It's yeah, it's suffering and poor

A. Santiago: 20:04

the suffering of poor everybody. Oh, that's like a Beavis and Butthead if we could definitely pull that. Flatulence. Listen, okay, so this everybody who's I wanna, I want to throw this out there. Well, we could probably try to do for that episode, which would be really cool. If we just animated the whole episode. That would be cool. Like, if we just animated the whole episode, like we didn't even do like the whole thing we just do full on animations, like 3d animations, and it's just you guys do now? Well, this, this they're already here for us on the suffering podcast. So

Mike Failace: 20:34

podcasts hijackers out there. And we know we know all

Kevin Donaldson: 20:37

too well, but you know that it will be hot. Was Was that Soak City? Was it profitable to the part where you could was that your full time job.

Mike Failace: 20:46

So stainable.

A. Santiago: 20:48

So during the good times, and I call this Catherine can tell you, my wife, she could say he had a summer full of barbecues, I was on unemployment at the time, KB Toys, they're not around anymore. So I could say whatever. I was unemployment. On the time, I went to score graduated on like, alright, well, let's just go full steam, it is what it is, I got money coming in, in a sense. Let me just record. And when I was recording my arm, the first thing are to come down. And I always give him Haner. I give him a lot of credit, because it was the first time that he really kind of stepped into the booth. And when it was done, he hurt himself on CD, like he didn't even pay me to do. I was energetic and ready to go, as always. And sometimes I jumped the gun a little bit before you guys could tell me to edit something. I'm like, I'm already going in. I'm excited because I could hear what I can make it become. And when I can hear that, I'm like, Oh, this is gonna sound amazing. So boom, boom, boom, a couple of days later, after he's recording in the booth. They're like, Oh, well, can you do like a demo out of it? And I'm like, Well, yeah, I could definitely make like a demo, it's gonna take a little work. And delta prime already had the work done, because I was already excited. I just wanted to see what I could do. And when you're doing something like that, it's

Kevin Donaldson: 22:05

like playing with a new toys, which Oh, exactly. And I've seen you, when you get new toys in here, it's automatically you gotta test it out. Gotta try it out. But

A. Santiago: 22:12

you gotta, you know, you guys know, microphones and all this stuff cost. They do cost a good amount of money. And it's not like something, it's not like a pair of shoes, we could just go and return or something like that. So when you invest your money in something, you really want to make sure you know how to use it.

Kevin Donaldson: 22:27

Well, I have this thing with my children, whenever they get a new electronic or something, I can throw the manual item, like read that. Like, why do you got to read the manual? And I said, because if you read the manual, you will be able to use that to its fullest abilities. Yes. Otherwise, you're going to use one or two options on it. And that's about it. But with reading the manual, you know everything. So playing with it. Listen, I get that I'm breaking your chops. Can you know it? But you get a new toy you want to you want to use that thing for to its fullest ability. So did he ended up end up paying you for the demo?

A. Santiago: 23:01

Oh, of course. I said at the end of the day, when you're creating something and I tell people all the time, you get a little nervous sometimes, because you're getting feedback from people. And you got to remember that you really kind of put a part of yourself out there. So I think the to me, the only moment that gets scary is when it gets quiet. So like you create something, and I give you something that you really like so what do you do? You take it and run with it right? You're like, oh, this is awesome. I got what I want it. And then you leave and like I'm waiting for like a call or a text. I'm like, did they like it? I hope they like it. It's been it's been let me let me just follow on they're like, Oh, we loved it. It's already posted. We already sharing it. It's already going on. Like, you know, you could have just said, like, yeah, like thanks a little bit, like just just let me know. But that's part of the creative process. They you know, when you're releasing something, you have to just kind of be like, okay, like, sometimes you have to wait a little bit. But I am blessed to say that. Everything that's been released everything that I've done that I've been a part of the project itself when it came out, right, the feedback has always been like, wow, that looks impressive. Wow, that was great.

Kevin Donaldson: 24:09

So you see a new arriving high on this first demo. All right out of the gate. Oh, this city is not around anymore. Um,

A. Santiago: 24:17

folks. Well, Stoke City, I always maintain the name, right. I've always maintained the name Stoke City pro because it's, it's a part. So the nine things changed. You know, you're talking about Stoke City and here goes eh thing you're talking about subsidy. The music I was releasing at the time was like on MySpace. It was like MySpace music. Oh, Tom was listen, I was getting played. I had the most friends in the world. It's an I had a song well for the video since you've been gone since you've been gone on MySpace got a lot of plays. So I sat back and I was like, Oh, this is happening now. And I was calling I had my friend Jack Jack. He's he was my

Kevin Donaldson: 24:57

you gotta friend to first names.

A. Santiago: 24:59

I have to Going Jack Jack. Okay, here's that

Kevin Donaldson: 25:01

from Incredibles.

A. Santiago: 25:02

No, it's funny and he probably doesn't even know this his his musician name is Jack Britt. Right? But the moment we started we met each other in New York in order to kind of like click with him I was just like, oh yeah, no, no I know you're Jack Jack. It's like Jack Jack. And here goes out. This is a you know, I have kids. Cinderella. The little mouth ran around Red Hat. Jack Jack. Okay. All right. Well, you know, it happens.

Mike Failace: 25:28

Jack Jack. Kevin watches Cinderella.

A. Santiago: 25:31

Okay, in the Reylo right. She had to make it suitable But Jack Jack and so it stuck with me Jack Jack The Incredibles Jack Jack? And he just did.

Kevin Donaldson: 25:40

So when did go on? Drew Drew. Drew, did you have any other successes past that first one, or did they solve this and

A. Santiago: 25:47

is it may not? I'm always and people do when you inquire you ask a little bit you learn listen. Originally, I was supposed to be scheduled on a reality TV show. That was happening at one time. New York Puerto Rican Day Parade. That was probably one of my favorite things to do. That's a long parade. If you're ever in a parade, that is the parade to sit there and be

Kevin Donaldson: 26:11

like a lot of dayglo colors in that parade. I've been there. I was like, I

A. Santiago: 26:14

need more water. Or the water.

Mike Failace: 26:16

The they go pray that you went a little bit

Kevin Donaldson: 26:20

that was that was a rainbow parade.

A. Santiago: 26:21

Rainbow parade.

Kevin Donaldson: 26:22

I'm not out to Nick and Mark. It's right to take me there. I'm going to be

A. Santiago: 26:26

especially Nick. Shout out to bud and Marshall.

Kevin Donaldson: 26:29

Yes, I've been to Puerto Rican Day parades. And it is ultra festive

A. Santiago: 26:33

guests. So imagine going from start to finish on those. And most of the time because of a need to make sure that the same time was able to be seen. So most of the time on it. I asked the guy on the float Why was moving if I could jump on the speaker. And I like jumped on the speaker and rolled the whole time in the New York Puerto Rican Day Parade. That's pretty cool.

Mike Failace: 26:52

So it was like, because he shouldn't he had to get up. I

A. Santiago: 26:55

had to I had to I had to but you know, it's it's a moment. So I can I'm proud of everything that I've accomplished and everything that I've done. And whenever I write new songs or write music or do things like that I release and then people are like, Oh, wow, they're always surprised. I like what you grab. I'm like, yeah, why wouldn't you just don't? I'm like, you've never heard me then.

Kevin Donaldson: 27:17

When did when this was only audio you're strictly doing audio? Strictly audio? Yes. Alright, so when When did Soak City go

A. Santiago: 27:24

away? When this Soak City kind of fade?

Kevin Donaldson: 27:28

Was that a big blow? That's that that had to be a big blow to your ego because

Mike Failace: 27:32

your baby built it from the beginning?

A. Santiago: 27:34

Yeah, when when Stoke City kind of settled down, I'm gonna say settled down a little bit. It was more with the realization that I got tired of being what I call the around the block, rapper, and the around the block artists who's just kind of good in his town. And I was just kind of like, once I started understanding how the industry really was, I was just kind of like, I really like writing songs. I really like writing music. I could do this internationally if I just focus, right. So stop fighting to get soaked city out. Nobody knows what Soak City Pro is focus on just getting artists Nemo, doing shots focus on that. When did he really kind of calm down? I think I had to slow down a little bit. Because realistically, I push my priorities in order. If you listen to most musicians, when they talk about their music career, it kind of goes backwards, right? They'll hit the music, they get big, and then they're like, alright, well, I'm a father, but I'll catch up to being a father later. I can never do that. I was like, I'm always going to be a father first. Regardless, that has to be my priority. And it's funny because we just did that star. So I'm sitting behind the board and I'm like, get that has to be a priority. And I was just like, No, but this is I want to be there.

Kevin Donaldson: 28:51

What it sounds like to take a lesson from Derrick his book. Yes. Is you knew what you wanted to do. Yes. And you knew the path that you had to take? Yes. And it's just this is what I have to do to get here. Yes, right. But you also have this child you came into this world yes.

A. Santiago: 29:09

I was a young father 19 When you're playing Rainbow Six Yeah, Bunny I was a bunny in high school. I said all the time hops around the 19 year old for father night. Oh, I missed my mark by three years.

Kevin Donaldson: 29:22

His grandparents 19 years old this.

A. Santiago: 29:24

I was very, very

Kevin Donaldson: 29:28

boys kid only in Puerto Rico. Just kidding. They are at least 26 He's

A. Santiago: 29:31

good on the island. Don't worry. He's good. No, it's one of those things where, you know, once you become a father, and I started working like with my daughter and your one on one hands on with them, and then around the same time, I mean, my wife and it's everything. All this magic happened. I had Angelica Jalen, and I've never really felt like there was a rush for my career. You know, some people give a timespan like, oh, well, you're hitting this age. I never felt that way. I've always felt like if you really love to do something, you're gonna do it either way, it's gonna always be there. Yeah, it is a passion that's never gonna stop.

Mike Failace: 30:08

Like you're not you have a different passion in your kids.

A. Santiago: 30:11

Oh my kids it's the funniest thing it's it's crazy because my oldest she could sing if she wanted to my my middle one, my little one my Jaden then she's into cheering she's moving. I saw my son. I don't even know where he got the breakdancing from. But we were at a party and he's like onstage spinning and doing circles. And I'm just in the garage looking for cardboard. Yeah. And I'm just like, I'm like, you know, you missed it by about 40 years, but go buy

Mike Failace: 30:38

a pair of shells. He'll be alright. Yeah. It'll come back soon. Everything comes back, it'll come back. Breakdance it'll come back sooner or later. Yeah,

A. Santiago: 30:44

but when you watch it in, you're like, oh, and then we will play with him on turntables. And when you see your little guy run up, and he grabs the turntables, and all of a sudden he grabs one ear, and he's like this, and I got him. And he's just playing. And that's one thing, like, if you ever whenever we go out, you know, sometimes parents when they see like, the kids run up to the equipment, they were like, no, no, no, don't touch that data data. I'm like, no, they're kids. Let them see. What if he breaks it? Trust me. He's not gonna break it. I'm right here. He could spend the turntable if he wants he could do this. Are you sure? I'm perfectly fine. Because there's something in that little kid that made him run and do that.

Kevin Donaldson: 31:25

You're also encouraging the behavior that you want. You know, obviously being so passionate about audio engineering, you get your children to follow suit.

A. Santiago: 31:33

It would be great if they did but they've already told me more than one occasion. They were like that. That's you this year, Dave? eyebags. I've asked. I was like, So what are we doing a job? So I was like, I guess the son? You

Kevin Donaldson: 31:44

let them go out and find out. They're trying to

Mike Failace: 31:46

come to the studio? No, dad. That's right.

Kevin Donaldson: 31:48

It'll be here for a while.

A. Santiago: 31:49

They got tic Tock 2000 views and all this other stuff going on every week. I'm like, Jesus, you girls.

Kevin Donaldson: 31:56

They'll come back. They will.

A. Santiago: 31:57

They'll come back there at that 1617 year old mores. Oh, they

Mike Failace: 32:00

know everything now. Oh, yeah.

A. Santiago: 32:02

I'm in with Google, though. They really not too far. We

Mike Failace: 32:06

had to figure it out on our own. You had to go to Yeah, well button, you're gonna figure everything out. Common sense

A. Santiago: 32:10

is like, well, that's not what Google said. I'm like, Well, did you check your source? I tell them that now. I'm like, check your source. But it's just Wikipedia. That's not an accurate source. You could prove whatever. I'm Batman on Wikipedia.

Kevin Donaldson: 32:23

With silk city, and even now you are. So you're a creator. Yes. That's your that's your love and for foremost in everything. But you're also small business owner. Yes. Okay. It's It was so exciting. You're a small business owner. And that comes with its own brand of suffering. You got to keep the lights on you got to pay this you got to pay that you got to bring money in because you want to make this your career provide for your family. Now you got to become business savvy on top of learning all the audio stuff. Was that a hard transition to learn the business aspect.

A. Santiago: 32:52

So fun fact, immediately after high school, I went and got my Associates. So I went to Berklee College, I was immediately like, swamped into I was taught business first. I really knew how to write songs and how to perform and do all this stuff, all the small business. And I understood when I was looking even at people around in the industry, I'm like, the math doesn't add up. Somebody's doing the numbers wrong. Because I could sit there and I could see that. And you guys know when it comes to numbers, I'm pretty accurate. I'm pretty on point. Yeah. So on kind of like when the numbers don't add up and the math doesn't add up. That's when I kind of step away from things because I know that something's not right. You know, so the business aspect of things. So for example, and just on the on the topic of music, I'm going to say like this. Most people want to get a hit song on the radio, or hit song on Tik Tok now, right Oh, my song is trending data data. That's great. That's not really where you want to get a hit song. You guys know where you should really get a hit song on

Kevin Donaldson: 33:52

a commercial on The Tonight Show.

A. Santiago: 33:55

Be In fact, Elvis, the movie? Does your cat has a hit song that's on that. Okay,

Kevin Donaldson: 34:02

actually, you know what song? You know what song made the most money in the world? Which one will give you the artist the artist is Paul Anka

A. Santiago: 34:11

plank. Okay,

Kevin Donaldson: 34:12

you know polec is an ideal. He wrote the theme to the tonight show okay to the Tonight Show. Johnny Carson Tonight Show

A. Santiago: 34:19

actually won the most on it. Titanic My Heart Will Go On

Kevin Donaldson: 34:23

no by Celine Dion.

A. Santiago: 34:25

Do you know how much she may just offer

Mike Failace: 34:30

that? I can't imagine her she get royalties every day and the movie plays so people

Kevin Donaldson: 34:34

every time that tonight show played Paul I could get a royalty every single night

Mike Failace: 34:39

and probably reruns

A. Santiago: 34:40

Yep. And reach so every single time so that's where one thing about the industry even now when I'm talking to younger artists on the come up and they tell me Oh, I got this I got that. I'm like your songwriting abilities that you want that you want to have. First off, you got kind of get the pride out of your way. I was like because you have to learn how to really write a song they think I got a verse I got a chorus like Got it? No, you need to bridge you need to space it out. You know there's more that you need to do you turn around and I'm like now if you could get into a movie later when hangover came out and flow writer had that song you spin hit the remake right? Yeah. Paid every time he's going to be paid

Kevin Donaldson: 35:18

think they'll pay for my intro to I was

Mike Failace: 35:20

gonna say they will for the say

A. Santiago: 35:22

it's time for the suffering podcast

Kevin Donaldson: 35:26

the suffering podcast the movie in theaters 2028

A. Santiago: 35:31

Listen, when that feeling comes out when they do the big a movie

Kevin Donaldson: 35:34

they made strange brew with Bob and Doug McKenzie. Listen, you guys

Mike Failace: 35:37

get Dumb and Dumber, you're gonna

A. Santiago: 35:38

have a Netflix series, you're gonna have a series on Netflix, it's going to turn into a movie, you know, Netflix only signs on Netflix only does for two to three seasons, that's all you get. That's fine. So you're gonna get about two seasons, three seasons, the most

Kevin Donaldson: 35:49

cameras gonna follow through Florida.

A. Santiago: 35:53

And then afterwards, guess what you get after you get to three, then you get a movie?

Mike Failace: 35:56

No, we could just set up cameras in the production room.

A. Santiago: 36:00

And we can make a whole movie. Right? There's the whole movie just like

Kevin Donaldson: 36:03

each other Instagram.

A. Santiago: 36:06

animated television did a whole thing. And yeah, have a filter on Beavis and Butthead. And just goes but so that's that's one of those things you learn, right? Nobody told me that when you walk through the door. Everybody tells you you need to get downloads or CD cells or this other stuff. Nobody told me that,

Kevin Donaldson: 36:23

you know go into go into college the way you did for audio engineering versus on the job training guess in your opinion, guess what is the more valuable education that you had

A. Santiago: 36:35

for when it just comes to recording just just audio when it comes to just audio? Honestly being out there on the field training, there's nothing missing, you could read the book and all that other stuff. But when you're all of a sudden caught and something's not going right, and you like you're trying to remember all those texts and everything doesn't.

Mike Failace: 36:57

But you know, we said about law enforcement that the police academy gives you the basic you know, gives you the basis I guess you could say for your career. You got to learn every day on the job.

Kevin Donaldson: 37:08

Yep, correct. I used to the thing that I don't know if it's the same in your industry with police work I used to have a lot of old veterans that used to come and say wow, you know, you don't really notice job until five years the smart older guys would say here's what I think you have so much more book knowledge current book knowledge than I have been been a 25 year veteran because you just it's fresh in your mind it's new to you I have experienced stuff you'll get to where I am but in the meantime let's learn from each other. So guys coming out of college right now girls coming out of college right now with an audio engineering degree. Yes. You can learn as much from them as they can for you.

A. Santiago: 37:48

Oh 100% of the industries Listen, there are things I learned in that school that honestly I didn't I wouldn't even want to do right now. Not that I can like make a microphone cable I can make a microphone cable. Do I want to make a micro

Kevin Donaldson: 38:02

they're $10 but you're Why would you do that

Mike Failace: 38:05

yet waste all that time

A. Santiago: 38:07

if you're in a situation where the mics not working right and you have the tools and the problem is the cable and let's say for some reason things around you are close now it's gonna be tough breaking now soldering kit. But I could slice the cable and return it if I needed to.

Kevin Donaldson: 38:22

Right You know, it's good to have those not though that knowledge jesting it's a just in case thing. It's you know, and I'll take it back. So I had a summer job. One of my favorite summer jobs for many years was putting up swimming pools, okay, and we used to make more money off of people who try to put up their own swimming pools, because they would always be screwed up. So you're not paying for perfect conditions you're paying for when things go wrong. Yes for experience that's when somebody comes to you with their audio issues. Yes, anybody can especially with the new phones now anybody can record anything on their phone. Yeah, they're making hits all the time and you can filter it you can put add ons you can do all sorts of different things with it. But that's perfect conditions. If you want it to sound professional then you have to go to somebody like you Yes At what point did it start transitioning into podcast work

A. Santiago: 39:15

into podcasting go the way it all started was I used to do coffee time life okay, which is going on right? Coffee Time Live I was doing everyday when I got to the job beforehand. That's how it started. I will go in there and before my shift started I would start maybe 510 minutes doing Coffee Talk Live after do about 510 minutes coffee time live. I was starting my day pop up. I will get feedback all sorts of great. So doing coffee time so doing coffee time. And then we'll meet more hooked up towards the producer. I'll give him a shout out tomorrow. We kept on doing coffee time live we just have a bar and then we created a different show and all this other stuff. And we work together really well for a while.

Kevin Donaldson: 39:52

Well so there's there's a big difference. That's a big difference. Yes. And not this is not a knock on mark because I don't know Marv Yeah, but I do know People who record it very, very studious. Okay, I do know people who record their. And they, I'll talk to them and they'll tell me Oh, he's great he does this this and this Yes. The thing I'm not telling them is all the extras that you do here today in a media, like there's a lot of extras that you do. Yes, there's your very service oriented studio.

Mike Failace: 40:22

I will be because he's, he's like meticulous, you know, Drew's meticulous in what he does, because he's putting his stamp on it. You know, so he wants to he wants, he wants us to succeed, because of us, but also because I'm

A. Santiago: 40:37

sure it's not so much as so that that's like a difference, right? So you could see where the talent could really go. You know, and every single time I worked with plenty of great podcast, and I'm like, Well, maybe if you guys do this, some people listen. Right? Some don't. That's okay. But you know, I'm, I always look at it from from the listeners perspective, from the viewer perspective, let me take a step back. Let me see what they're seeing. And then how can I make this like full on engaging? How can I make this even harder than what it is? And that's really my aspect on it. I mean, technically speaking, when we were first even working on the intro for the suffering podcast numbering, you were like, Oh, we kind of have like this fire and flame thing. And I was like, well, we could do something like this. And now every time we open up intros, it's nice as this nice design, was he did

Mike Failace: 41:29

come up with a new

Kevin Donaldson: 41:30

Oh, yeah. So I did it, I'll tell you, honestly. So I did a very rudimentary version of that. And then drew took it to the next level, where he, he synced the flames to the beat. And when it was a minute, if you go back into some of our newer or older video episode, we'll see that started, you'll see that full that full interim detailed, and yeah, the flames surround the logo and pop at the right time when the when the beats hit, it was

A. Santiago: 41:58

the transitions that hit one. But so basically, that's like the perfect, what you just said is perfect. You have a great idea. And I see you trying to capturing the idea. And that's why whenever I'm working with anybody, I tell them, well tell me your idea. Because my job, my idea is to try to capture the best of what you're seeing,

Kevin Donaldson: 42:15

you take the ordinary and you turn it you put some magic on it, you know, he turned it into the extra word

Mike Failace: 42:20

that right here one night, as right after we did a show I think we were talking about, he was talking about upgrading, upgrading the the intro to it, we're sitting right in the control room, and he just put the flames around it. And from there, I

A. Santiago: 42:34

show you and that's so that's the difference, like you have to really, it's not so much and I say this all the time, and you could go anywhere with somebody just hits record. That's anywhere anybody could go. And that's

Kevin Donaldson: 42:45

I gotta tell you, that's probably 99% of the studios around it's just okay, you want to record a podcast come in, go. And that's

A. Santiago: 42:52

so this is the problem. And it's not just for anybody in in most of the industry right now we'll be looking at a clock, The clock would be like, Okay, this is going it's been an hour, 61 minutes 62. So they're gonna pay for a second hour. They went over, they know it's an hour. That's more money on it. There's like a level of where people are forgetting that art, that you're creating something that you're dealing with something that somebody envisions that they have. It is it is our it is what you guys are creating every week. Every week, the suffering podcast, right, speaks one on one with people and helps them get through tough times. Truth, you two, both have dealt with tough times in your life, and still are coping and dealing with it. So we've been tough times every Wednesday, every Wednesday. I mean some Listen, but and then we deal with that, right? And so each week is a brand new episode each week is something new, and I say it all the time on length, but each week we're capturing something new. It might be somebody might have listened to all 100 episodes, right? But this might be somebody's first time seeing this episode. That's important.

Kevin Donaldson: 44:00

I've listened to all so well. He just listened

A. Santiago: 44:03

to Episode Nine. I've listened to all one he listens to 999.

Mike Failace: 44:07

I've listened to 900 episodes. Episode 90,

A. Santiago: 44:12

all those players came from that need. So that's where it comes into like production. That's where you start producing a show and you you're no longer just

Kevin Donaldson: 44:21

but sometimes you have to polish it turf. Okay, and I know you're you're he does it for us everywhere. And that is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet in your life. And he doesn't say he doesn't say anything bad about anybody. But I know in the back of your head because you're human. You'll watch something. And you'll be like, Yeah, that's really that's bad. And then you got to go do your magic.

A. Santiago: 44:45

I do my best. And my wife. She says you really don't I'm like and 100% I've a long time ago. I do my best to just be like, I'm not here to judge. You understand? I'm not I'm here to try to Make it happen. Right? So yeah, you're gonna have a couple of interviews where you're sitting across a table, you're like, Oh, my God,

Kevin Donaldson: 45:05

we've had, why, why

A. Santiago: 45:06

did we do this?

Mike Failace: 45:07

Listen, I know there's plenty of things that they're cut out and put on that cutting room floor things. I said,

A. Santiago: 45:14

Oh, sometimes when people slip on, like, you know, we really can't we really, so that's got to be cut, you know, or usually you lose a lot of content, or sometimes, and it's whenever I cut anything, I have to make sure that it's still following the trend of the conversation. You know, you can't cut and all of a sudden, everybody's laughing, you're like, Well, what, what did I miss in the job? Right?

Mike Failace: 45:35

You know, Andrew also chimes in and tells us when to bring up our sponsors.

Kevin Donaldson: 45:40

Yeah. Which, which it's time for just about time first. It's so you know, on cue, the, what you do is so important that we're having an event at the Grand Sloan, as you know very well on the 21st of December, this episode will be airing just about that time, and you're going to be grand Sloane is 940 van Houghton Avenue. They've been very, very generous to

Mike Failace: 46:03

us. And that's why I'm on a menu this week, you had to figure out

Kevin Donaldson: 46:06

how to take something that could potentially be disastrous, and make it sound like a show because we're gonna be recording them.

Mike Failace: 46:13

Yes. And you're gonna have all that background noise. And

A. Santiago: 46:16

so while I have tools,

Kevin Donaldson: 46:17

you have to figure that stuff out my toys, and I, I hate doing this. But unfortunately, because of the your knowledge base, I have to do this to you some time where I just like, hand you a bunch of pieces and like Drew, I need help. I can't I can't put this together.

A. Santiago: 46:32

Well, listen I on the reverie, and she'll tell you. I'm great at Tetris. So when I have to figure things out, and I'm working on all these different boxes coming in my way, I'm like, it all just kind of click spin it bring it down. Yeah, it's, it's a little hard for me to explain. So when I tell people sometimes and they're like, well, you're like, did you like that? And I'm like, No, it's because I could kind of I could kind of see it. So even when you give me like you give me that set, and I can see everything that's on the table, and I'm like, okay, so puzzle. Yeah. And I'm like, Well, what is it you want to get to? Well, this is what I would really like to get. Okay, cool. And we don't need this, we don't need that. This is the main thing that's going to happen. We're going to push that up there. And and before you know it, we got rid of all the fat on the steak. And now we got a good meal.

Mike Failace: 47:20

But you know, I mean, you're the type of guy that could think on the fly pretty good, too. I mean, we sat here a couple times, and he just, you know, we're like, what are we gonna do and he's up I gotta fix don't worry about it. Just sitting on the fly and fixing things right there.

Kevin Donaldson: 47:32

Well, tonight for instance, tonight's a perfect example of where you know, you're not you're not here here because it's it's always

A. Santiago: 47:41

perfect. And our scheduled guests, I was not shout out to not being the I was not actually

Kevin Donaldson: 47:47

not my guests, not my guests. But tonight was a was an on the fly episode where you just had to figure stuff out. We don't have anybody behind the board. We don't. So it's you doing two jobs right now? Yes, yes. And,

A. Santiago: 48:02

yes, you still gotta end editing is gonna be fun. Yes, yeah, editing will be fun. Yes. But you know what, there's, you get to make excuses. Or you can make results, or you can get it done. That's it. Like, I don't believe I could spend more time. And most people do this. They spend more time creating excuses. Rather than just doing it. Just I can't do this because of this. And I can't do this because of that. And if I wait, and I'm like, Oh my God, why don't you just try it?

Mike Failace: 48:27

I always say people, people complain more trying to get out of work than they do actually work.

A. Santiago: 48:32

Just do it. Just get the job done.

Kevin Donaldson: 48:33

Does that Verizon? Verizon. So there's, there's a team when I used to

A. Santiago: 48:41

see it's a past thing. It's a past thing.

Kevin Donaldson: 48:42

I was working on a road job for Verizon, and they had to put a new telephone pole. So when you put a new telephone pole in, you got to move the wires from one new one pole to the next pole. There's two different teams that do that. Okay, I watched these two teams argue they're all the guy putting the telephone poles. He was alone. He goes, I just need like five minutes to help. Yes, the wire team. That's not our job. And they argued for half an hour when it could have been done. When I'm standing there going guys just do something I don't feel like standing out here anymore. Five minutes. They finally gave in and help the five minutes The poll was in done. But instead of doing it five minutes, where tonight's episode, we get the schedule guests, there was there was an issue. And I watched you and I said Drew, what do you think about this, you know, and we're sitting in the control room. What do you think about let's do this, we're here let's let's record this episode. We wanted to do this anyway. Next thing I know you're gone. And you're setting up cameras. You're figuring out how this work. I gotta clear memory off

Mike Failace: 49:42

this memory card. I gotta clear that memory card. I

A. Santiago: 49:44

got it as well, you know, we could have easily sat back over there and said, Well, guys, it's not happening to me. You said it yourself. You're like, well, we're all here. Why don't we make something happen? And I'm just kind of like, yeah, we've done this before. Yeah, let's make something happen. You know, like I said, we could have sat over there. We could have gotten upset. We could have gotten all this didn't happen. This didn't work out that.

Kevin Donaldson: 50:07

Well, I'm still be upset. There's plenty of time. Yeah.

A. Santiago: 50:09

So would you be upset now? I say it all the time. I'm not putting my energy into that. I'm not putting my time into that, because now that person gained that from me. I'm not giving you that. That's why I'm just like, No, I'm like, It's okay. You could kind of move on,

Kevin Donaldson: 50:25

you know, if we if if if you were a new engineer, yes. And we were new podcasters. We would not be recording.

Mike Failace: 50:32

All I'd be home ready?

A. Santiago: 50:33

Yeah. No, I think a new engineer, especially new engineers need to learn a lot of patience.

Kevin Donaldson: 50:38

So where do you see your profession going? You're You're the proprietor of a NJ Media Studios. I know your wife, Kathy is super involved in this whole thing? Yes. Where do you see where would Where do you see this going? Is podcasting going to be the main focus?

A. Santiago: 50:54

I want to be able to grow into really more into the full network. I think there's a lot of room in the podcasting industry. I don't think it's just well, there's

Kevin Donaldson: 51:03

no competition. You know, we're not in competition with anybody.

Mike Failace: 51:06

We're like we say all the time. It's not like a radio show. It's not like we have a sharp slice. We're not on six to 10am.

A. Santiago: 51:12

The beauty of our podcast is that we say it all the time, right? People are listening to a specific niche. That's what they're listening to. And just like anything good, if all of a sudden, was it, like Mike's hot Honey, just like anything good.

Mike Failace: 51:28

Hashtag Mike's hot honey, it's

A. Santiago: 51:29

great. You put it on, and all of a sudden, it's like, okay, well, this works on here, this works on that this works on works.

Kevin Donaldson: 51:34

It works on F. So that's the point. So you

A. Santiago: 51:37

had this whole conversation before, right? So if you turn around and you and you have like this niche, it's kind of the same thing, right? You like something, you're more than likely to listen to a similar show. And it's very simple. So the idea of being able to help people, and regardless of the ball, Drew, you know, you're really helping people. So, we start with the suffering podcast, I think the suffering pockets is great. In the future, as we grow, maybe we branch maybe we find a podcast that okay, we have one that talks about mental health. Okay, maybe there's differing Podcast Network, the suffering Podcast Network, and then you bring people physical, right? Then you get somebody to maybe just focus on hey, we're only talking about physical data, we focus, the suffering podcast is hit that data, then we go to there, and you could just branch out diet, eating data, and we're helping people at the end of the day. And I feel like we could probably use a little bit more of that in the world.

Mike Failace: 52:33

Now in how many podcasts episodes. In your, in your understanding? Have you actually done in your career?

A. Santiago: 52:45

Like me just solo recording? Over? I don't know, it's been it's been a while.

Kevin Donaldson: 52:51

You say more than 100?

A. Santiago: 52:53

Yes. I can easily say more than 100.

Kevin Donaldson: 52:56

Well, yeah, it's gotta be I mean, we're

Mike Failace: 52:58

No, he hasn't done all 100 of ours yet. No, no,

Kevin Donaldson: 53:00

you've done 30. What, 3030 39

A. Santiago: 53:06

guess on the suffering podcast? That's not counting on. You know, we did the we did the elite show. John Lee. There's a couple of other shows, I could say. But they're still being produced. Shout out to your history, your story. We did. We help them with the gardens and the gardeners. Let me see. We also were doing podcasters

Kevin Donaldson: 53:28

pod fest, pod fest pod fest. So there's all down the pod fest

A. Santiago: 53:32

going down a buffet. So there's so many different shows that I worked with and been on. But each one was different in their own sense. Like I said, I really do take that no approach on it. Because that's just really,

Kevin Donaldson: 53:44

when you give sound advice. That's, that's my biggest compliment I can give you you. Thank

Mike Failace: 53:48

you. Sounds a great springboard.

Kevin Donaldson: 53:49

Yeah, you know, we'll ideas need to be cultivated. He's like a garden. So we're sitting around before the guests gets here, and we'll throw out an idea. Well, what you think it is, and then Michael, say something, you'll say something and we'll just and it's a it's a round robin type of thing until we cultivate it enough where it starts to grow. And once we get it down, and we focus on it, that's that's in your part of that team. I

A. Santiago: 54:12

mean, look at the transition. And anybody who's still just doing all it's just a straight podcast, think about the traditional transition. The transition to video just happened in June. We laid out a plan. May we started recording, but it aired in June. Right. Right. Started in May. Within from June, July, August, September, October, November, we're what just six months in? Within six months, the show has now over 5000 subscribers. Every episode gets 5000 Plus place because some do 10 Some do 13 Some to 17 Think about all the interesting guests have come down. It's huge growth.

Kevin Donaldson: 54:51

There's a nice library of work out there for us not only for yourself, but for us as well. We're super appreciative of the guidance because pretty much everything you've said has happened. And I fought you on a lot of stuff.

A. Santiago: 55:03

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know what, that's where being open minded in this industry is you have to be able to. So,

Kevin Donaldson: 55:10

by the way, it's not my fault that I fought you on the intro, what I call an error of long guitar solos and intro as long intros

A. Santiago: 55:17

I'm with you know, I love having a woman answer on a song beforehand. Maybe they're talking maybe they're doing that's what I should do. That was where I heard a song how long a salsa song plays for I love watching Telemundo take forever. Then they go on.

Mike Failace: 55:31

We have about two minutes of content after the wholesale song played. But think

A. Santiago: 55:35

about it like this here. Let me break it down. You have an editor, right? The content creators you guys are creating the episode you put in you do the intros. Okay, that's one part of the show. Now you have the editor editor. The editor goes through, cleans up the audio does the work right. The mixing engineer you go back you do a mix on it. Making sure sounds nice. The producer, he's watching everything on it. Shame on me for bumping guests. Microphones shame on these sales in

Mike Failace: 56:02

our area of microphones. Microphone. Yeah.

A. Santiago: 56:06

fought? Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. Oh, my God, did you really dig in and do that? Alright, so I'm gonna pause it right here to edit the whole thing. Oh, my God, that saved for later. But you know, so there's different parts of the puzzle and everybody has it. I think the hardest thing is when you have to let go of that. That little baby and say, Hey, you're in charge of this now.

Kevin Donaldson: 56:30

It's hard to do. Oh, it's extraordinarily hard to do. I know that from my own perspective. You know, for season three, we're revamping certain things in here. We're revamping certain things all over? Yes. And it's hard for me to let that stuff go. Because I, I put a lot of work into this. That's like giving up the basement. Yeah, that was hard, was extraordinarily hard. But I knew in order to grow, I knew what we had to do. We had to bring on a pro. We had to come to A and J media in order to make our make our vision

A. Santiago: 57:01

come true. And all this really, you know, and special things. And when we started saying, oh, Sam, but to my wife, Kathy, because I was when we were creating that video for blue. Right? You guys know, and I said this, this was on the moment. Everything that happened happened in like such a sync, I want you guys to know that. I wasn't scheduled to be there for that video shoot that I didn't know, the day before. And once again to my wife, she's like, Hey, you really gotta come meet this guy, Dan. I come down. I'm like, I'm not expecting this. I'm regular. Just regular clothes. I'm not shaved. I'm not nothing. I just come up. I'm like, hey, it's good to meet people. It's like, I have this idea for the video. And the moment he started talking to me, my everything started running. And I'm like, you ever okay? He was like, I'm going to do it. He was like, I'm going to do it with my phone. And in my mind, I'm like, No, you're not,

Kevin Donaldson: 57:49

don't do that.

A. Santiago: 57:50

I'm like, You're not going to do it. Because I understand the bigger purpose. All right, I go down and I just bring my cameras in case. I go to see and I see everything set up. I'm like, No, we're gonna record. So that day when you saw me for the first time, it was all boom, boom, boom, settled. Like it was all just it just laid itself out that way.

Kevin Donaldson: 58:10

And that was like February or something.

Mike Failace: 58:12

Yeah. Like you said, we had just gotten back from Florida.

Kevin Donaldson: 58:15

And, you know, now we're here. Me personally, there's, there's there's a couple other studios in the area. But me personally, I need to have a personal relationship, somebody so when Mike and I were discussing coming to video, I'm like, well, listen, I got the place, the only place that I would like to record is with you. Because when I when I first met you, I could tell your passion, like your passion bleeds right through and everything. Thanks, say. You've been doing this for quite some time. Yes. And so it's I just see onward and upward. You know, you're you're doing different rooms, you're building audio booths, sound booths, which I don't have to come in here and do the openings anymore. I just don't right there.

A. Santiago: 58:56

The The idea is I want you to be able to walk in. And to do just like that, hey, if you want to do it an audio book or an intro or anything like that, you just walk right into one booth and it'll be all set.

Kevin Donaldson: 59:08

Well, so one of the things that I this, I said my kids will listen to this anyway. So what when my youngest son loves to say, okay, and I've already talked to you about this is I think what I'm gonna get him for Christmas is I want a studio saw your song that he will have forever.

A. Santiago: 59:25

One of my proudest moments was being able to record my father. That's pretty cool. Came down. I have some magical moments I could tell you about. He came down and he asked me so what do you want to do on your birthday? I said, why we really like to record you. That's really what you want to do for your birthday. So come down to the studio.

Kevin Donaldson: 59:42

My kids always try to record me in the bathroom. Ah, man, well,

A. Santiago: 59:45

that's for the show, you know, the suffering of poop. Hilarious. You know, he came down and he sang a guitar and he's playing it in depth and I'm like, boom, it's a moment. You know, there was this and well, that's what you're doing your cat moments in time that oh, it's magic. There was me recipes. Kathy has things Kathy, his grandfather when he passed, had all these old cassettes. He used to play the accordion. And he would sing. And they asked me they said, Well, what

Kevin Donaldson: 1:00:15

are you can play in the accordion?

A. Santiago: 1:00:17

Yeah, you know what he was, um, a very great man because he taught all of his kids how to play instruments and all of his kids. He pretty much was the Spanish Jackson Five. Okay, let's call it what it was. But I think it was like the Jackson nine because there's a lot of

Kevin Donaldson: 1:00:33

did he live in the nevermind ranch?

Mike Failace: 1:00:35

Jackson Quatro. Oh, I sent God.

A. Santiago: 1:00:40

He's so super cool. So he does all this. And Kathy tells me that he does all this without any anybody teaching him. He learned himself. So she brings me these tapes. And I'm like, Well, what can you do with them, and I'm like, Oh, I mean, audio is kind of think about the time think about what I have. And it's just recordings, I was able to take that audio, clean it up, fix it up, I was able to build a demo for him and hand that to his kids. That's,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:01:06

that's see that's that's salvaging to, to to

A. Santiago: 1:01:09

Kathy as mother and father. And when you talk about a motion and a feeling you have a version of your father captured, that you thought that maybe would never even sound because I couldn't get

Kevin Donaldson: 1:01:23

him. So there's a beautiful, there's something that I heard the other day that is slowly going away because of people like you. They say when people die, a library is burned to the ground. Okay, all those memory says, all those memories, all those experiences, they're all gone. With people such as yourself who record these shows. They are now making sure those libraries while they are charred, and some of the some of the items in there are destroyed. Yes. Not all of its destroyed. There is stuff that moves

Mike Failace: 1:01:55

on, you know, when someone passes, you generally just have pictures of them. That's it. You know, I mean, I would love to hear my mother's voice one more time,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:02:01

I have five pictures of my great grandfather that I never knew existed until the family just put their heads together. And we all sort of put them together, you're really you know, when people die, like Mike said that you pretty much only have pictures left. And you're saving those things, you're making sure those libraries don't burn to the ground.

A. Santiago: 1:02:20

You know, in those things, even the pictures when they do like pictures, restorations, you're seeing your family in a light that hasn't been seen before. And so you have these, it's that's why when I work, that's why I tell people it really is creative is what you're making. And every single time somebody steps in, whether it's a demo, whether it's a group of friends sitting on a table and saying hey, you remember when we had that podcast, and we were doing that data, or remember when we started papapapa and you're like yeah, I play the video on that. Oh, Dad, you didn't have a podcast 20 years from now. I did have a podcast check it out was on YouTube.

Mike Failace: 1:02:53

I imagine when we die our voices are still gonna be out there I forever forever.

A. Santiago: 1:02:57

I told my kids and they laugh at me. I was like, Listen, I don't know if he's gonna be ready at the time. But if I could get like a hologram made, you know, like Superman's dad to Palmyra yet to bro Tupac back it just have that whole thing where I just kind of hover around teach you kid like now I stopped doing that you're messing up No, don't do that.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:13

Oh, no, you got to start recording yourself now.

A. Santiago: 1:03:15

Well that would Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got to do all the recording now it's just gonna shut up it just can't be that one music video don't get your ass down. I happen to sound so familiar Sit your ass

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:26

Dad Stop it. That Stop

Mike Failace: 1:03:28

it Stop touching that

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:29

how can how can somebody find a NJ media

A. Santiago: 1:03:32

and J media you could connect with us online ag media dot live

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:37

we get the producer to put the lower thirds up so we can make him have listened there

Mike Failace: 1:03:42

weren't any we gotta have our logo on there's there's gonna be the A and J is gonna

A. Santiago: 1:03:45

be right here. So this is where the lower third comes in. For those who don't know, and the lower third isn't, you know, that's a perfect example. Something as simple as that. That it takes a little finesse, you put it in at the right time, it's meaningful to take the presentation up. And suddenly one of them is what it is. Well,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:04:05

we certainly appreciate you. And if you want to look at what Drew can do, just go to Episode 99 suffering of 99 which was recorded and Mike and I sitting like this, and our logo looks beautiful it that really does. And that was that's a blank for those of you don't that's a blank wall. And

Mike Failace: 1:04:24

it doesn't look like it was like superimposed up there. Like it was

Kevin Donaldson: 1:04:27

on it and everything was really good. It's all about the opacity

Mike Failace: 1:04:32

through Yeah, I was just gonna say drew, I gotta tell you, I can't thank you enough from the bottom of my heart for everything you've done for us. I mean, you've been excellent. You've made us what we are today. Not that we're much.

A. Santiago: 1:04:41

No you made it you guys you know, I know we joke a little bit in this and you guys are are not just you guys are big. And I don't care what you guys say because you guys are big because you're impacting people in a positive way. Every single time.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:04:55

I get a lot of joy out of coming in here every week. And I know joking around I just got to get it's fun time for me and some guys go out to a bar to hang out with their boys or whatever. I enjoy coming in sitting down with a guest talking to you beforehand. And it's we know exactly. We're starting to work with each other for six in the short six months, I think, you know, we figured out really good. I know you were sitting behind the board and you know what I'm going to talk you kind of know when he's going to talk. And you know where to put the cameras in the right. You just got everything figured out. You know, and when

A. Santiago: 1:05:28

I'm going to talk, but not what I'm gonna say. Yeah, you know, you gotta get ready for the Phenom like so what is Mike going to say? Is the guests gonna get across the table today?

Mike Failace: 1:05:36

I told Kevin, I was having I need a speed bump between my brain and my mouth.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:05:43

What happens? What you need to do is just let him talk and like the old the old samurai movies

A. Santiago: 1:05:49

Oh, wait gives like a delay dub dub it in? Mike's always dubbed in he's never on time. His voice.

Mike Failace: 1:05:56

His voice is always mouth keeps moving.

A. Santiago: 1:06:00

I'm gonna record Mike and voice I'm like so Mike. This is what you said during this part. I'm gonna record you in that booth. You're gonna come over say this and I'm just gonna voice it over.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:06:08

Okay, so this is this is episode 103103. All right, so we're gonna have to start hashtagging episode one.

A. Santiago: 1:06:15

You know the work that episode we're gonna do episode 103 is gonna come out awesome. This is the best produced episode. Transition ever always gonna be smooth. There's gonna have moments but the problem

Mike Failace: 1:06:25

is there's only one camera at all times.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:06:28

Wise, if you want a well produced episode, have your producer rate as a guest. That's the That's the trick.

A. Santiago: 1:06:34

Like, how come it's all color graded? It looks like a movie is gonna have the bars up and down.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:06:38

So now when we hit episode 203 That's gonna be the suffering of 103

A. Santiago: 1:06:45

in episode. Yeah, but I have an assistant back there by then. Yeah, that's,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:06:49

well, that's where we're going. And you I told you what our ultimate goal is for suffering pockets. Now this is not a joke. I want one room in your studio dedicated to suffering.

A. Santiago: 1:06:59

We're gonna do it just like Run DMC deal with Aerosmith. We're just gonna knock the wall down. This is our cave. We're gonna walk with a mic stand and get to walk

Kevin Donaldson: 1:07:07

this way. Yeah. Andrew, I can't thank you so much for doing this. This is this is a long time coming. Because I really wanted to have you in here. I know you deal with a lot of crap that people don't realize people see the lights, people see the good production and stuff and think it's just, it just happens. But there's a lot of work that goes on.

Mike Failace: 1:07:23

We don't just turn on the lights and and turn them off and go home. Now you have a lot more behind the scenes work that goes on.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:07:28

So as always, the last question of the night is always you spent this time in this. I have to call it a passion of yours. Yeah, so audio engineering, and through video podcasting. You've learned a lot. You've learned to good you've learned to bed? What do you think the suffering of a Podcast Producer has taught you?

A. Santiago: 1:07:48

You know, it's funny, because you're always behind the board when you hear that. So this is the first time being in front and I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm just like, Wait, this

Mike Failace: 1:07:56

just a little behind a window? And alas, yeah, I'm

A. Santiago: 1:07:58

like, this all sounds familiar to me was this. So for me, it was, um, that pretty much I think what the suffering has taught me is that through the suffering comes beauty that you, you sometimes have to endure, because what a lot of people don't get is even as a business when you're starting, you really have to have a leap of faith, you kind of have to go in. So there was times and I'll say right now that there are times where you're like, oh, man, is this going to work? Is this going to happen? You know, you're counting money account that but you kind of move forward with it. So you need that need that faith. That's just the truth of it. But the suffering really what you go through, makes you and it's gonna make you even better than what you were.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:08:44

I think you have the unique ability to envision the invisible and create the impossible. Thank you. And I'm gonna leave it with that and that's gonna that's why the kisses Esther and Michelle. Oh, I have to. He's gonna make me look like shit. And then you're gonna look like look.

Mike Failace: 1:09:00

You can't make me look good.

A. Santiago: 1:09:02

I got I actually have a couple of

Kevin Donaldson: 1:09:04

Yes, he does. He was showing them to me the other Yeah, that's gonna do it for this episode of the suffering podcast, the suffering of a Podcast Producer with our very good friend Andrew Santiago. And as always, let's think about all the stuff that we learn. Some lessons are learned on the job. Your value is not in what you know when things go right. But when things go wrong, make that ordinary, extraordinary but most importantly, capture moments in time. And that's going to do it for this episode. Follow us on social media on tick tock LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, all the social media outlets follow Mike and Mike underscore Falaise. Follow me at real Kevin Donaldson and of course, follow the suffering podcast. Don't forget to listen before you watch our episodes. Err on audio every Sunday. And if you like what we're putting out, make sure you hit like and subscribe ring the bell so you get notified. And we're gonna see you on the next episode of Suffering podcast