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With Erica Blue and Catherine Angel
Police are taught to take the pain and trauma they witnessed and buried deep never allowing it to resurface. This unhealthy behavior leads to some tragic outcomes. Blue suicide is at epidemic levels in police work has the highest suicide rate amongst any job. Erica Blue and Catherine Angel are in the studio to try to combat this growing problem inside the Police community with their organization Moment Of Silence. We learn some tools on how to open up any race the stigma behind police mental health.
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Sit your ass down, down. Sit your ass down, down. Let's talk about suffering. It's time to start Sit down sit your ass down this is gonna hurt let's talk about suffering suffering, it's time to start the pain, the pain. This is gone. It's time for the sufferings podcast. We're born with a glass that can hold a lifetime of suffering. Time moves on and pieces of our lives begin to fill the glass. One by one, we accumulate sorrow of trauma, loss, anxiety, pain, and so much more. We're stuck in this guessing game to see how much suffering we can handle before we break. Police are born with a class that appears no different than anyone else's. They accumulate suffering at a different rate than most, the average person will see one, maybe two critical incidents throughout their lifetime. Police on an average 20 year career, we'll see upwards of 800 Now take the worst day you can remember and multiply it by 800. I'm Kevin Donaldson here with Mike Felice and on this episode of the suffering podcast, we sit down and talk to a very talk about a very important subject to us. It's going to be a subject that's at epidemic levels that has no sexual orientation, no gender, no race, and we're talking about Blue suicide. And we're here with Kathy and Erica. They have a lot of experience in this is why we brought you in. But before we get into anything I want to thank our marquee sponsor that's Toyota of Hackensack. If you're looking for a car, go to Toyota hackensack.com Let them find you a car I trust them, Mike trust them. And I'm telling you right now Kathy and Erica, you're going to trust them. So if you're looking for a car, go to Toyota Hackensack. Tom, Kevin soon tell him Kevin, tell them by telling your friends at a suffering pockets. Trust me, they're going to take care of you. And I strongly suggest you do it. Because try to find a car these days. Good luck. Before we get into anything, I want to welcome you both here. And I also want to talk to you about our social media question of the week we each week we take a question from our audience, and we let them interact with us this week. Question comes from Janine says, what are some subliminal ways people ask for help? Kathy, I'm gonna start with you. So what do you think are some ways that people might not come out and ask you directly, but they might kind of ask for help without asking for help.
Catherine Angel:I want to say, for example, I have a friend who was just involved in a DUI not too long ago. And it always comes back to him because his attitude he's a little negative. But uh, you know, me, I guess it's like the the mom and me and I always try to bring out the best. And always try to bring that positivity to people, even though sometimes I'm negative myself. But
Kevin Donaldson:if you told me you were positive all the time, I call you a liar. You say?
Mike Failace:It's gonna say, but this guy's a strong guy that's been through a lot of stuff. Yeah. Because we know, we know. Yeah, we know,
Kevin Donaldson:you know. And he's one of our dear friends. We love him dearly. And we love him dearly. But I will say this, it's easier for a man to come to a woman and ask for help than it is for a man to a man to come to him.
Catherine Angel:Even though he doesn't really ask for it directly. But um,
Mike Failace:he sees a guy. He's not gonna Yeah, and
Catherine Angel:I see it. I see he's suffering and stuff like that. So you know, I tried to give him advice.
Kevin Donaldson:Thanks for the plug, too. I like that. Thanks for the plug. He's suffering. You're on the suffering podcast. But that's good, though. It's good. You're a sounding board for somebody. And we all need that in our life. Somebody who we can trust with our innermost feelings. Like I don't trust in this government or most feelings. Bury me put it out on social media. Hey, guess what happened to Kevin? What's it? I'm
Mike Failace:taking notes. I got some book. The inner workings of Kevin Donaldson.
Kevin Donaldson:That's it's gonna be an abstract book. Erica, I know we've met before, but we've never really spoken. She spoke to
Mike Failace:me. She just didn't want to talk to you. I
Kevin Donaldson:don't I don't blame her. I get it. I speak to somebody who posts open book is. Erica, if you had to look at certain ways you've been you've been to facilities where people need some real help. What do you think are some subliminal ways somebody might ask for help without asking for help.
Unknown:While starting with work, I would say that on the job you notice, the first thing I noticed is somebody were police sergeant. Correct? Yes, yes. Just being too sharp. Old, somebody's unshaven where they used to really care about their looks a little bit of apathy, right? You notice either weight loss or weight gain. And just the things like Kathy had mentioned the things they say they're just much more negative in their comments. Or if they were, it could go either way. I've seen people who just become the clown, and are always the life of the party and those they're suffering the most. And then I also see the ones that used to be funny that now are very dry, and like sarcastic. And you can just see everything they say, has just a dark tone to it.
Kevin Donaldson:So it's kind of like the Tears of a Clown. And then you have those that withdraw. Right? So which one which one you think you would be if you were really hurting inside and really suffering? Are you the withdrawing? Are you the Tears of a Clown?
Unknown:I've been there. So I withdraw, you withdraw? Yeah, I don't answer the telephone or the teach my
Kevin Donaldson:kettle withdrawal? Absolutely. going through withdrawals to charge. You know, like, we've seen so much suffering, and we do reach out to people who are really in crisis, who have asked us directly for help. But what do you think are some maybe some subliminal ways somebody might come to you and ask for help. And like
Mike Failace:you said, it change of attitude, it could be something as simple as, just like the look on someone's face, you know, you see that look of like, someone's just destroyed, like you see a dog you ever see like a dog when they get scared, they just have
Kevin Donaldson:that ears back that tail down. You're looking at body language. Just check out
Mike Failace:someone's body language. You know, like you said, someone comes into work happy go lucky one day and the next day to you just see them getting closer to the ground as the days go on.
Kevin Donaldson:Even though it's no secret that Mike and I are. We're your family as much as we break each other's chops. We are family. So Mike is that one person in my life? Who was my sounding board? Who knows a lot more about me than I let out. So we talk more than I ever want to admit. We're not gay yet. We're not gay yet. But there was at one time, but yeah, but you can't count. But nobody was we were doing. We were drinking. We were under the influence. But anyway, so I know, from the frequency that we speak. I know behavioral changes in him. I'll see how he's carrying himself or whether he's not communicating. Mike's a withdrawal guy. I know that. I know that right away. We
Mike Failace:didn't talk all day today. Yeah, I
Kevin Donaldson:know. Because you got shit going on. I know what was going on. But Mike's withdrawal guy. So if I don't hear from Mike in a in a day or two or a day, I'll call him up. And like, it's real simple. Because you don't want to you don't want to pry. You don't want to make anybody feel uncomfortable as a bro, what's going on? Alright, so again, good. And usually he'll let it out. He'll say, You know what, you know, I got this going on. And I got this going on. But we know each other well enough to do that. For somebody else. Again, Mike, I have to I have to give you some credit on this one. It's body language. I look at body language. I look at how your eyes look. People who don't look in the eye. I'm a big look you in the eye type of person. If they're not if they're looking down, I don't really trust people who don't look me in the eye anyway. But that body language is really important. So Janine, thank you so much for sending that one. And before we go any further, I have to point this out. So our good friend, Charlie CIFA rally just came out with his book 14th. And second, it's available on Amazon. Charlie, Charlie, if you don't remember was on our episode sometime. One of our show some time ago. He was the father I hate to say owner but he was the father of stars in New York. Pitbull. This book now I would have read this book, no matter what, because Charlie's my friend. But I will tell you I'm about halfway through this book. And you can see here just so you know, I'm not foolish yet. This book is second to none. It's probably one of the best books I've read. In years. It's got me captivated and I really do wish it was on audio would have been done three times already. But yes, go look for this on Amazon support. Our friend Charlie CIFA rally sits on our sits on a board of directors for Dennett development project. So it's a fantastic book, you're gonna learn a lot about him stuff that you don't already know. So we got two people Mike in here that the names could appear on a marquee above a gentleman's club. Oh, I hate to say that. We talked about Kathy Angel and Erica blue now appearing on the mainstage. So you have the ring. It just rolls off the tongue. But I'm not doing that to offend you. You do have very catchy names, and I'm sure that serves you well.
Mike Failace:Using them in college, Kevin blow.
Kevin Donaldson:It was Kevin Nice. Who's Kevin? Nice. So Kathy, we started with you with social media question. Erica. I want to start with you. I want you to tell our audience a little bit about yourself. So always the hardest question. Question ever.
Unknown:I'm on the board for blue suicide. Moment of silence and moment of silence. Sorry. I'm a little nervous, so bear with me.
Kevin Donaldson:Don't be nervous. He makes you nervous just because like good looks
Unknown:good. Hey, so I'm a sergeant in a town here in Jersey, and I've been on for 21 years now. Three years ago I went to my first rehab and are we allowed to see the names?
Kevin Donaldson:Sure if you went to Florida unless it was a bad experience in
Unknown:Florida House in Florida was my first one. I think I did about three months there. And three years later, I went to warrior's heart in Texas, and I'm back two weeks
Kevin Donaldson:now they tried to get me to go to the Florida House and they sold a pretty good product. Oh, they Shaw sure do they sold a pretty good product
Mike Failace:on the duck stuff pushing Yeah, that's
Kevin Donaldson:it. That's it. It's got a gym and all this stuff. I don't want to go down to Florida. I don't like Florida anyway, it's where you go to die. It's God's waiting God's waiting
Unknown:room. That's just say reminding me of Princeton house
Kevin Donaldson:well, which is where I was, which is where I was. I tell this story very frequently and I don't know if it's the same across the board but they feed you really well. But for something whatever they put in the food, you can't expel it. And it becomes very uncomfortable and still softener. They won't give it to me. Really and I was begging them for it like I would if they had crack and and Metamucil I would snorted Metamucil
Unknown:to relax. They handed it out like Tic Tac Oh,
Kevin Donaldson:and so that proves that there's something in the food. They want you to be that uncomfortable. I know we're talking about something gross here which both cops don't worry about it. You're listening. It's you. You've all
Catherine Angel:weird. What do you mean like? Regular?
Kevin Donaldson:It's really good food. But for some some reason you can't go to the bathroom.
Unknown:I think it's all preserved maybe like it was very salty.
Kevin Donaldson:Yeah. Well, so it's I feel comfortable talking about this in a room full of cops because we've all run into headquarters ripping off our keepers.
Mike Failace:Yes, you know me, I've never had a problem.
Kevin Donaldson:You just go on your pants these days because it's Well, that's the diapers.
Mike Failace:Yeah. I'm 56 I can actually go my pants. Yeah, I'm 50.
Kevin Donaldson:Kathy, tell the audience a little bit about you.
Catherine Angel:Okay. My name is Katherine.
Kevin Donaldson:Katherine, you prefer Katherine or cat
Catherine Angel:doesn't matter. I like Kathy Catherine. Either or Kate can be Catherine. Yeah,
Kevin Donaldson:I just get cold. So
Catherine Angel:I'm 30 years old. I've been a police officer for the past year. You're in a couple months. I have a 13 year old daughter. And I work for the blue magazine as well. For more than a science. I'm on the board. And what can I say? I mean, I love what I do. I love the job. I've always wanted to be involved in law enforcement. That's been my dream always.
Kevin Donaldson:What attracts you to law enforcement?
Catherine Angel:You know why? I don't know. I just I just think is badass. The honest chick with I love it. And I love helping people. I always have and
Mike Failace:I drive a pickup truck to know we call it checkups.
Catherine Angel:I've always been so attracted to it. And my family actually I have family backing back home in Colombia. I have police officers so
Kevin Donaldson:so you're in your you could have gotten to another line of businesses much more profitable employees. So it's there's no pension plan, but you know, I love it though. Yeah. Okay. What's your favorite thing about being a police officer?
Catherine Angel:Um, really? Um, you know what,
Mike Failace:what excites me every
Catherine Angel:day going lights
Mike Failace:and sirens. I love it. But you know, it's all carefully something different every day. That's
Catherine Angel:really every day you'd never know what to do. You got an
Mike Failace:office job, you're you know, you're going in nine to five you're pushing papers, you're doing it. Law enforcement, something different.
Catherine Angel:You're gonna go home early every day. But for example, last Saturday, I left at 10 o'clock at night. My shift was over at six and I live at 10
Kevin Donaldson:I used to hate that you get the well you're still you're still new news you still know enough where that's kind of cool.
Mike Failace:But the only the only time you had to stay late is like when you had plans right after of course. You get off at seven you're going out to dinner at eight and all of a sudden like oh you know yeah and then always call it 645 If you're getting it's when you get to make that phone call home say up plans are done tonight. But the
Kevin Donaldson:nice thing about having you both here is I know Kathy and I'm sure you have your own suffering but you you're heavily involved in other people's suffering. Erica, you have personal suffering story that I really want to talk about. So why don't you give once you let's get into your own little suffering story you said you've been to two rehabs let's let's start with your your your trip into Florida House.
Unknown:That started actually, Danny kind of picked up on my signs. I was
Kevin Donaldson:subliminal signs or did you come out and ask for help?
Unknown:No subliminal I had been withdrawn answering my phone not coming into the office. And he calls me no One day I went in, and he just saw it was a hot mess. Meaning my hair was shoveled my clothes. And he could tell I hadn't showered and body language. Yes. And then he was just asking me questions. And then he broke me down. And I just,
Kevin Donaldson:Danny has a way to do it in person we're talking about as Danny del Val, who is who is the owner and publisher of blue magazine, who has been such a good friend to us and really helped us out along the way when we needed help. And that's why it's important for us to get in here and talk about all these things. So what what was your drug of choice? Or was that a drug? Or was it alcohol? Let's let's start there.
Unknown:It was sleeping pills and Percocets. Any kind of pill, basically. And I just kind of fill that with like, calm
Mike Failace:you down. Yes,
Unknown:I needed something to calm me down. And I just wanted to keep sleeping. And I had been suicidal before I was hospitalized. In my teenage years. I had my first daughter at 14. And I feel like ever since then I just had bouts of depression. But I would come back out,
Mike Failace:like postmenopausal or no, it was part of postpartum, postpartum post menopause, postpartum on my bed. Only in Zimbabwe to go to medical, or Columbia of Costa Rica.
Kevin Donaldson:So that's why you fit in so well to moment of silence. Yeah, because you know what it's like, I know what it's like, I don't know if you know too much about my story. But I've been there as well, really bad, especially after my shooting, that the feelings that you're going through, I get them. The world's better off with that.
Unknown:My kids will be better off financially,
Kevin Donaldson:I'm a burden. But the truth of it is, and we learned this from a very good friend of ours, if you were on the job, everybody, every cop seems to think that wow, if I just kill myself, then, you know, they'll get three and a half times, lifetime benefits and stuff. And it's not true. Really, it's a lie that we tell ourselves the same lies that you're telling yourself with the world's better off without you world's not better off without the world's better off with you in it
Unknown:with me. For years, I think there was a term somebody said, I think it was called passive suicide. And it's like, where I was putting myself in situations all the time where I was in danger. If there was a call, and it was a man with a gun or three men with guns, I would be the first one there because I was looking for it. I wanted that. And so I got respect and a reputation at work for being one of the guys and not being afraid. But the truth was, I was doing those things because I wanted something to happen.
Mike Failace:Almost wishing that someone would go to work every
Unknown:day and hope that something crazy would happen. And I'd be gone.
Kevin Donaldson:Well, there was a there was a movie years ago made with Dabney Coleman. And it was called short time. And they kind of put a funny spin on it on a very serious subject subject, he, his blood work gets screwed up, and he thinks he's dying of some disease. And he's going to be dead in three months. But he his pension is not going to pay out unless he gets killed in the line of duty. So he ends up doing all this dangerous stuff, like you just did. And he always gets these awards because he comes out alive on the other side. So they put a funny spin on it. But I get it like I get it. You figure it's I always felt for me, like a big giant coward because I couldn't, you know, so it would be easier for somebody else to do it for me. And that's what that's the thinking behind say suicide by cop, which we deal with all the time. And what's so what, what was the worst time that that ever reared its head
Unknown:was then because I remember I've taken up to five Percocets and like, woken up and it's like, fuck, why am I still here? You know, and then trying to act normal after because then you're groggy and you're, you're like not right. And then you're trying to act like you're fine. And that's the point where Danny had seen me. And he made some phone calls right there on the spot. And he got me it was the day before Christmas. No, it was the 20 No, it was the 24th and then he got me on a plane to Florida House on Christmas the 25th I was on a plane. So depressing
Kevin Donaldson:way to spend Christmas. Yeah, but that's the reason I didn't go down to Florida House because I would have been down there for Christmas. We would have been there together. Yeah. Well, you know, I didn't want to leave my kids to be honest. I did not want to
Unknown:I didn't want to leave either. I have three daughters. I mean, they're grown but still who wants to leave on fucking Christmas?
Mike Failace:Presents Mommy's got to get on a plane.
Kevin Donaldson:But that ride down there. I know. I drove myself down to Princeton house. What was that trip like? Cuz I'm assuming it's going to be very similar. What was it A trip like down to Florida.
Unknown:Well, being honest, since we're open and honest here, I flew down so I got drunk on the airport. One last hurrah. I just didn't want to be anxious and have that feeling. So my thing is, I always want to kill my feelings. So I got there. They didn't do a breathalyzer, which is weird, but they did blood work and everything else.
Mike Failace:Do you have any pills with you on the fly? No, no,
Unknown:I was too afraid because I didn't know what to expect. And I was afraid to report back to work, you know? So, but when they pick you up, that's when it started to hit me. Like fuck, like, I'm going on rehab center. Like that's for losers. That's for
Mike Failace:addicts get like a cluster. That's not me.
Unknown:Yeah, I'm not fucking one of these people. Like I'm different. Right?
Kevin Donaldson:No, Kathy, you watched all this? Were you with blue magazine?
Catherine Angel:I remember when it happened, but I didn't really know Erica too much back then. Okay. But I was I was there. I wasn't in the in the magazine. But I was just I was just new. Yeah, what didn't you
Kevin Donaldson:what were your perceptions of it? It was this the first time you ever seen something like this? Yeah.
Catherine Angel:Yeah. I actually I didn't really know too much about it until like a couple of days later that Danny told me what? Really? I wasn't really aware of what did
Kevin Donaldson:it Did it scare you because you're trying to become a police officer. Oh, no,
Catherine Angel:no, no, I've never been scared.
Kevin Donaldson:Now I know you're lying. No. Because here's how I know you're lying.
Catherine Angel:She tried to. She told me she was like, Don't do it.
Kevin Donaldson:I do a lot of these things. But I get really nervous. Do you remember that? Do you have that on camera? Can we play? Is this different? Please? So a gun? A gun doesn't scare you about cameras, don't ya? Okay. All right. Or is it this face? Now we know the weakness. Right? That, you know, I dealt with a similar situation in rehab. The guy came in everybody parties one last time. That's one thing I never I didn't do. I did not party last time. But this guy got so drunk. It took him three days. I don't know how much he drank. He was probably a walk in three Oh, anyway. But it took him three days to come down from the alcohol and you just smelled it coming out of the room. Anytime they opened up the door, you could smell the alcohol coming out of I'm like, and that was at the point where I'm like, wow, you motherfuckers are real. You real drunk. But the pill thing I get, I get you. It's all about numbing. You just want to, you don't want to feel what you're feeling.
Mike Failace:You almost want to desensitize yourself to things.
Unknown:There's that point, but there's a threshold that you end up crossing where it's no longer numbing it, it's ending it. I feel like everybody as I always say, we all have the same devils just different levels. So you start with that level, where you want to numb it, and then you're suppressing everything, you're pushing it down. But then you get to a point where there's that's not enough. And you just want to go to sleep. Like surgery excites me, like I've had a rotator cuff replacement, I need another one. And I'm excited because I like such good sleep, that sleep is amazing. And I always tell them let me sleep longer. And then he's just gonna get a call. And I did have Well, it's great couple months ago,
Kevin Donaldson:sleep ever gets one every week. Just don't just don't just don't eat and then I tell them I look I'm not gonna eat today. I'll be back tomorrow because I love to sleep. But the you know,
Mike Failace:that prep for a colonoscopy. Oh, that's
Unknown:horrible. I could do it. That's bad. I want to she's too young to know that
Kevin Donaldson:drew, write that down. That's the next show idea. Colonoscopy prep. Okay, that's a good one. So, George Carlin actually put this very similar as the your your your pain and your suffering, when it relates to drugs goes on a seesaw in the beginning. There are your I'm sorry, your joy and your suffering, it goes on a seesaw. So in the beginning drugs or any type of pills, alcohol, whatever it may be. It's very little pain and a lot of joy. And then what happens over time is that seesaw starts to turn, it starts to turn. And then all of a sudden, you realize very quickly, that it's mostly pain and very little joy. And that's when you know, it's time to stop. Right? That's when you know, you always want to try to keep it level, not too much joy, but not too much pain. And I think we've all gone too far at that at some point in our lives. Now, Kathy, you've seen this stuff? Does it sort of keep you away from the bad behavior? Or do you still exhibit the bad behavior? I don't know.
Catherine Angel:No, I guess you could say that. I learned from it. I see other people's experiences. So I kind of know what to expect. And I see it more actually like people that were I see the signs I see the way they express themselves their negativity. So I guess that helps me I guess you could say that I've been lucky, I guess to be here and to see it from from its root So that's the way I see in.
Kevin Donaldson:Erica, did you get anything really beneficial from Flower house or you just you did your time?
Unknown:I did get some tools in Florida House. They have a first responders program. So I got more from the people in there, meaning the other addicts about from
Kevin Donaldson:a suicide perspective, did you get any tools in there about that?
Unknown:I got tools on how to like being the president and ground and try to snap my way out of it, like, wake up from the funk. But I don't feel that I understood why. That I think I gained at warrior's heart. It was two different programs. They were both good in their own way. But I feel that warrior's heart was more beneficial to me understanding my own mind, and feelings, because uh,
Mike Failace:you went through three years between your rehab?
Kevin Donaldson:Yes. So you get out. I guess I'm assuming you relapsed?
Unknown:Yes. That's what
Mike Failace:was gonna say what pushed you to go to warrior's heart? Was it a relapse? Or was it
Unknown:what pushed me there? I think, honestly, is like, issues at work. Issues in my marriage. Me not working the program, not going to meetings. Not going to my therapist anymore. Not taking my medications religiously. And
Kevin Donaldson:well, you especially need to read this book, this forbidden love 14. And second, I'm gonna tell you why because Charlie, Charlie has been Charlie was correct. When he moved to the Brasky became corrections officer. That's sort of how we're tied in to him very closely. But Charlie was an addict when he was younger. And you'll find out very clearly why he was an addict in here. But he's been sober for 30 years, plus somewhere around there. But he still works the program. He still works the program. And that's interesting, because I've heard that term plenty of times. I don't work the program. I just don't ever want to go back to rehab. I was that kid who got scared straight. But so you get out of Florida House. And maybe it gave you a tool or to to ground your ground you to just not run so quickly to your inevitable end. Because I hate to tell you, Erica, you are going to die one day. It's inevitable. There's no reason we got to hurry it up. You know,
Mike Failace:don't speed up the process. Don't
Kevin Donaldson:listen, it's coming for us, no matter what. We all have an expiration date. So you get out and I bet you when you got out. I'm never doing it again. I'm cured. I'm good. What was the first time that you relapsed that you went back in
Unknown:with the pills? I think it was after my shoulder surgery. Because I got the Percocet again,
Kevin Donaldson:which is horrible, because it's perfectly legal.
Unknown:And I needed and then you just have extra and then one day you're having a fight with your significant other and then it's like you know what, fuck you. And then I'm the type that I self sabotage by inflicting pain on myself rather than you.
Kevin Donaldson:You share. We're not brother and sister.
Unknown:And then I'll take like, you know what, fuck you. So I'm gonna take five and you know, hurt myself.
Kevin Donaldson:You got to wash it down with some liquor to if you really want to go full bore.
Mike Failace:Oh, how does this make you feel? I'll take five Percocet. You know, I hope you're happy now. You said it's self sabotage. And
Unknown:you're like, I just don't want to feel this and then I'm in lala land and I'm happy I'm listening to music and I'm sleeping and but then
Kevin Donaldson:when you but the problem with those pink coats because I got hooked on it after shoulder surgery. Three months and he said take it as prescribed. So that's what I did. I listened to the friggin doctor. And I took it as prescribed. And next thing you know, I'm like, Well, I gotta get back to work. So I better get off this stuff. And I tried to just stop cold turkey because we're cops were idiots. And yeah, that didn't work out so well. It didn't I knew what junkies felt. Did you add muscle Relax I'm sorry not junkies Hold on. again getting back to Charlie it's no longer junkies I had a problem I had an addiction. So
Unknown:and then you add the muscle relaxer here The
Kevin Donaldson:mine was colonic pin and alcohol because I became a real cheap date. Yeah, no, yeah. Which is really super dangerous to say you know, like, Please do not do not do that. Klonopin intensifies alcohol. So two three Klonopin, I drank half as much cheap date, I have a cheap date, five colonic pin and some alcohol. I was a really cheap date. And if I really wanted to go full bore, that's when the handful came in. And that was that was one attempt, one attempt. So you get out you relax with some after shoulder surgery. I know there's addicts that will never take painkillers again, and they'll just live with the pain because when you get off those, and that's something I wanted to talk to you about because especially with painkillers when you did finally see Stop. How bad did it hurt?
Unknown:Honestly, I, it didn't hurt me that much because they were supplementing me at Florida House with something else. I don't remember what it was, but I didn't feel it. And also I was in the environment with Gen pop. So I was watching my back all the time my hyper vigilance kicked up. So I feel like that numb the feelings also. And then I was so angry that I was there because it was a locked facility. And I didn't know that till I got there. So the rage is my go to so me flipping my bed and throwing shoes at the staff that got me over that hump of feeling. I guess the detox off the pills,
Mike Failace:because your model patient that, oh, they love whipping your bed throwing shoes,
Unknown:and I was a mess.
Kevin Donaldson:I remember coming off of them and your pain receptors awaken. And that the pain just like oh, God, everything hurts. But I did something similar when I went to I forget where it was. But I know it was St. Claire's in Danville. So I went to the psych ward. Because when after what after an attempt and insecurity, all I want to do is get some sleep. So I closed the curtain Well, you can't close the curtain. And they kept coming and open up the light, switch, minimize and then I become real belligerent, and then there's security guards that start surrounding me. And I start laying into the security guards, you rent a cop motherfuckers piece of shit, you can't get a real job. I was really mean to these people. A point where I had to go back and like what after I cleaned up? I went back and apologize. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. But that's what does it. Yes, we're putting, we're sitting here as for rational individuals. And we're putting
Mike Failace:God he went back and apologized because that's now how he lives in the psych ward. He actually lives because I'm around him too. He's just like, unreleased.
Kevin Donaldson:They let me out like once a week. I get a pass. But we're rationalizing totally irrational behavior because we're removed from it. were removed from it. So
Mike Failace:that, but it's real. It's going on to people every day. Yeah, it
Kevin Donaldson:is. Because you you make your own reality at that point. And that's kind of what you did. So walk us down the path. You had a three year process. It started how soon after you get out of Florida House. Did you start taking pills again?
Unknown:Two years. Oh, so
Kevin Donaldson:you had to you had a two year run? Was it difficult at any time? Did you almost
Unknown:no, because I still drink here and there socially. But if I did take a pill, like you said, but after that, right? I remember taking a pill at the boxing match. Oh, yeah, I had taken a pill and then I had like, literally like two drinks. I feel like and I was falling all over the place. So I would tell myself, never drink when I'm out. You know what I mean? Or don't don't take a pill with drinking and drinking. So I would like make deals where myself. Like, alright, you can take a pill tonight if you don't drink you could drink tonight and vice versa, like making those deals because remember, I'm not an addict.
Kevin Donaldson:No, no. But addicts are real good at justifying their their behavior. Really good. Well, I only do this. I'm only going to drink tonight. I can handle this. I'm only going to do this once well once turns in twice, so forth and so on and with Gen zoo into warriors heart.
Unknown:Right. Warriors heart was bred, you know, he had noticed my behavior at we did a commercial video on thing
Kevin Donaldson:that's prompted. Yeah, they cut my cat.
Unknown:I asked you guys if you wanted something to drink that day, like, drink drink. And Brad was like We don't drink.
Kevin Donaldson:Oh, gee, thanks, Brad. Speak for me. Good job and asked me
Mike Failace:a good one. Yeah.
Unknown:So I think one day I was on a couple pills, and I think I was drinking and I forgot how it happened. It's blurry, but we were talking on the phone. And then the next day he was calling me and I wouldn't answer because now I'm okay. So I don't need to. You're in the beginning of the video, too. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Then he came to my house. I don't know. He must ask Danny where I live. I don't know how you knew where I live? No. If people don't know, Brad, he's like six, six.
Mike Failace:He's a mountain of a man. I don't know what like
Kevin Donaldson:six, six.
Unknown:So I had only seen him that one day at the shoe. And he comes knocking on my door. My my son in law lets him in. He comes straight to my room. He's like, I thought you were dead. We're leaving right now you're going to warrior's heart. And I'm like the fuck I am. And now this huge guy and I'm this little thing and I'm like arguing with him how I'm not going and he looked at me. He's like, I will pick you up and I will take you and then I remember my husband tried to come in the room. And then he closed the door on him in his face and was like I need to talk to her. And my husband saw how big he was and just turned around. Like,
Kevin Donaldson:is there for nefarious purposes? I know. Sure. Thanks, hon.
Unknown:And then he got my plane ticket paid. He got me. He got me there. Basically, he got me to warrior's heart where he had been. And it was mostly Marines and army. Men. There were about 50 men and I think it was five of us women.
Kevin Donaldson:And she's Can you imagine that we should do a whole episode on the suffering of being the only woman and
Unknown:it's not like that they were all like brothers and everybody I promise you like you would think it's like that it is not. It
Kevin Donaldson:wasn't like that in front of you know, I hate to tell you, but we always say that in front of you guys. When
Mike Failace:did our bunks that night? Yeah,
Unknown:I was there for three months. And they were like brothers, and I really understood we do need to do a show about rehab. Because there's so much I have to say, oh, there's
Kevin Donaldson:yeah, there's tons of stuff. There's so much that when you went back into when you went to warrior's heart was still the same suicidal, ideal ideology going on? Was it still there was
Unknown:starting okay. It wasn't full fledge like it was when I went to Florida House, that that was the like I was there. Yeah. But I recognized that it was starting. And then I have a grandson coming along. And that's what kept me from going over the edge. So I was like, I do need help, I need to clean myself up before he gets here, you know, and warrior's heart was very different. I expected it to be like, Florida House, so I was very on guard. But it was very different. It was more of a family.
Kevin Donaldson:You know, speaking of that, we deal a lot with mental health on this on this program. That's basically the suffering pockets, we're going to break it down to its most basic elements. It's it's mental health. But something that goes hand in hand with mental health is your physical health. And we just want everybody to take a look at X body. So going hand in hand with mental health and physical health, go go over to X body in Wayne. They'll do things like the IV infusions, they'll do testosterone therapy, they'll do gut checks, they'll do bone density, they'll do physical therapy, things to things to get your body in shape, so you can start focusing on your mind. So go ahead and take a look at XX body. Follow us on Instagram, we'll put a link to our show notes. So they have a place for you to work out to get your body healthy along with your mind. They really
Unknown:did. Yeah, they had that they had canine which is you go when you help out with the dogs, you help to train them dog therapy and therapy is good. It's amazing. And then they get adopted out by warriors, people who are there or people who need service dogs, and they're certified combat veterans. Exactly. You're involved with that process. And you if you chose to do that. You can purchase the dog as well really, if you get attached to a certain dog,
Kevin Donaldson:I would take home every take home every
Unknown:amazing. And what's great is like let's say you started flipping out because he stole your candy bar. I flipped out on him all the time, they would bring the dog to your dog that you've been working with to you to calm you down. So
Kevin Donaldson:if you get nervous in here, just flip out on Mike. Take it.
Unknown:Bring it here to call me down.
Mike Failace:I'll give you candy bar.
Kevin Donaldson:Don't worry about it. We'll cut Yeah, it'll all work out in the end. But that's great, though, because it's a facility where you you felt accepted. And I'm telling you right now the guys had things going on in their mind. It's where guys, it's just gonna happen. I
Unknown:hated it at first because there were only five cops there, there was five cops and then five women, but the women were all in the army or various branches of and it was mostly Marines. So they kept talking their jargon. And I felt completely lost. Nothing in common at that point. Yes. Because and now I know how people feel when we're all around talking our 10 codes and whatnot. They don't understand what we're saying. Well,
Kevin Donaldson:I've been I've been retired for like almost nine years. So I'm now more civilian than cop and I translate for people out there. You know, I'm a translator,
Unknown:but for the first time I see how people feel when that's happening, you know, but,
Kevin Donaldson:but you change your bedside manner.
Unknown:Oh, I was on my P's and Q's no for police work.
Kevin Donaldson:You know what it's like to be in a locked facility?
Unknown:Oh, over there. Absolutely. Because I would say well, there is a heroin addict. I would never be friends with a heroin addict. They're they're addicts. That's who I arrest. And I ended up becoming friends with a heroin addict. A very close friend. And she is the smartest woman I've ever met in my life really conniving. She could get what she wants. Mostly more smart. And then it
Kevin Donaldson:will make you get whatever they want stop with at any woman. They got this magical power over all guys. Yeah. That's, that's great. So you, you get out you do The program, what's changed?
Unknown:What changed is that I it changed me in the way that I don't judge people anymore because that, as they say, addict, I don't say crackhead in the street that I used to look at and feel a certain way about a judgmental way looked down on like, I could have the same problem they have. And I just think God, by the grace of God, I'm in this position and not that position.
Kevin Donaldson:You're one you're one step away.
Mike Failace:We're all one step
Unknown:away from your job.
Kevin Donaldson:Now, do you you don't live in the town you work in? Hell no. Okay, because I live in the town I work in now. So and I deal with the police a lot with my church or you eat what is wrong with you? Yeah, well, no, no, no, I wasn't a cop. I wasn't a cop in the town I live in now. But I work in a town I live in now. And the cops have been to my house a couple of times when I was tired it on and you know, my belligerent self. I right in front of him like, yeah, what are you going to do about it? What are you going to do about it?
Mike Failace:I lived in a town I worked in, I used to walk to work every day. And live that half a block from headquarters. Jesus terrible. So how did how did you convenient but terrible?
Kevin Donaldson:How did you both get involved in moment of silence. So for those of you don't know, moment of silence, we we works on blue suicide, we work to erase this, this epidemic, all right, because at one time, we all get down on yourself. And if the normal person is lost to suicide, because it's not commit suicide, it's we lose each other to suicide. It's just a suicide when blue suicide happens. I for some reason, it just, I don't know, maybe because I'm tied into the police community, it just seems a little bit more tragic, because these are people who were put in charge of helping other people and we're really good at helping other people, but we're really bad at helping.
Mike Failace:They're the strong people that are supposed to be protecting everybody in in, we're eating all our feelings, and officers become suicidal. And that's the strong person that's supposed to help you. Meanwhile, they're not helping themselves.
Kevin Donaldson:So Kathy, give us a window. And I'm sure you've spoken to enough people who have tried it. Give us a window into what the mindset is of an officer who was contemplating suicide.
Catherine Angel:Oh, man, I have heard so many stories. I don't even know where to begin. I mean, everybody, the person you least expect, is probably going through something they you don't even know. Like, for example, or correct was a perfect example. When I first met her, I never in a million years would have thought that, you know, she was suffering deep inside.
Kevin Donaldson:And we all have guns too, which is makes it really easy. It makes it Yeah. Because the other ones are usually just attempts. Yeah, they're just attempts.
Unknown:Well, the gun part to me all I kept thinking as my kids are gonna have to clean this up.
Kevin Donaldson:You you're very fortunate you are, I'm gonna tell you why you're very fortunate because you had that forethought. Because when my gun went in my mouth, I was in my house. I was downstairs while everybody was upstairs sleeping, thinking, you know, same thoughts, then they're better off without me. I never once thought about that.
Mike Failace:Who did we have on the show, I think was a sniper.
Kevin Donaldson:Oh God, he when he said he wants to be courteous. So he goes out and gets a shower
Mike Failace:here to shower curtain, because he didn't want to make the room a mess up.
Kevin Donaldson:His plan was to go get a shower curtain and a bottle of Jack Daniels. And he was going to drink and then he was going to do it. But he he got the bottle of Jack Daniels and forgot the shower curtain. So he didn't do it. Yeah, like that was his thing. That was why he didn't do it. So yeah, that's Steve. And we can't say Steve's last name, but save the sniper, Steve the sniper. But yeah, that so you'd be courteous, but I didn't have that forethought. You're fortunate that you had it.
Unknown:I think if we took a poll of how many officers tasted their gun, it'd be more than 90%.
Kevin Donaldson:I still remember that's so scary.
Unknown:I still remember what it takes. But don't admit it. But if you got in a room and really got down to people who don't give a fuck what anybody else thinks, and we talked about our fucking feelings raw and out there, they would have made it that they've tasted it at some point in their career.
Kevin Donaldson:So Mike and I go to we haven't in a while because of the pandemic pandemic. But we go to group therapy, and it's one place where we feel safe about that. And we do it in such a way that's probably not the healthiest because we joke about it more than anything else. You know, everybody's afraid of doing it and doing it wrong. You know, because then you then you're screw self up for the rest of life. Like if I do it, I'm gonna do it. Right. But you've been on as police officers, we've all been on enough suicides, and we see the aftermath. Which is shocking to me that we would even think about continuing to do it. And just so you know, I just pulled this statistic today for blue health.org. It's as of 20 on 2022. As of today, there's been 62 suicides, blue suicides as of today, and I think the highest was in 2019, which again, I Think that's got something to do with lock down, we're at 249. So we are, I think we're point three or 4% higher than the national average of any other profession. So why, like why? Why is it? Is it the stress from the job? Is it the shift work? Is it the what you see? If you had to think of some reasons why blue suicide is such at an epidemic level? What do you think it would be?
Unknown:Honestly, for me, it's the the stress of I think internal structure, which is, the people that we depend on to guide us are so afraid of social media and everything like that, they make our job harder. Like if you're doing your job, you can lose it quicker. And I think that stress plus, then you have home stress, everybody hates the cops. Now, that's an added stress and what we see we stuffed it down. Because if we saw a dead body or something, we'll joke about it, we'll go drink about it. But we're not talking about
Mike Failace:it. So that's what we call fill in the glass. Every time you see something and keep filling the glass with water and fill a glass of water sooner or later, if you don't help yourself, that glass is gonna spill over.
Kevin Donaldson:If you weren't such a dickhead you would have been here for my opening. And you would have heard that's how I that's how I spoke about
Mike Failace:when you're afraid to do openings in front of me, because you stumble on your cell phone, you look like an idiot.
Kevin Donaldson:One of the statistics that I throw out and I actually throw it out in the moment of silence video, is the average person sees one maybe two critical incidents throughout their life. The average police officer and a 20 year career sees about 800. So take your worst day, if you're civilian out there listening to this, take your worst day and multiply it by 800. And that's the normal life of a police officer. But we're all we all have that glass, right? This is this is the normal amount of suffering that you can take in your lifetime. And then, for me anyway, what put me over the edge is my glass was was up there. And one incident right over and I broke. And I did I broke and Mike broke. And it sounds like you broke. That's what that's what happens. But where do you go for help? You're the one helping people? Where do you go? You gotta go. You gotta go to your boss and say, Hey, listen,
Mike Failace:I'm because then you're damaged goods? Exactly. Yeah. And that's one of the problems is, like you said, the distress we see as police officers every day day in and day out. Then you said going home to family life distress there. We eat all that. Because we're afraid to talk to anybody, even if it's in your department, because then you're gonna be damaged goods, and then you're gonna be that person, you know, and you're gonna be labeled, you can't take it. What are the rubber gun squad and he has a bitch. Now you deal with people that are suicidal? Like, almost through what you do with blue silence and blue magazine? How do you? You got to take those feelings in onto yourself at some point, don't you?
Catherine Angel:In a way I do. I guess I'm pretty strong minded, in a way. So I try my best to learn from it more, and not let it get to me. That's for sure. I have learned a lot in the last few years.
Mike Failace:Is it more like the satisfaction of helping someone also that like that keeps you going and striving? Yes, because
Catherine Angel:I know that I could help somebody later on, I still have 3029 years ago. So I know, at some point, I'm gonna be able to help someone. And I hope I don't get to that point. Because
Mike Failace:in the long run, it's gonna help you out with your 29 years because you only have a year on your glass didn't start getting filled yet.
Kevin Donaldson:So the question I have for you, Kathy, is, is you've seen all this stuff? And let's say you get into that mindset. Are you going to have the fortitude and the resiliency to ask for help yourself? Do you think that you would be able to do that?
Catherine Angel:I would think so. Because I'm pretty open. Yeah, I'm pretty open. And I think I would, I will look for help. Absolutely. I really think
Kevin Donaldson:that it's God, this is this subject. So yeah, I gotta be honest with you, this subject just sucks. But it's an essential subject that we need to talk about. At
Mike Failace:least you know, the resources, yes, to talk to people. Now if you if God forbid, you're ever feeling
Catherine Angel:that's why I feel I guess you could say lucky in a way, because I I've got all this knowledge before I even got on the job. Because I've been seeing the I've been with the magazine of a moment of silence for the past four years, actually two days ago. Are you happy anniversary?
Kevin Donaldson:Well, we all need to get out. We all need to get out and enjoy ourselves. But we need to like Eric was saying we need to have that open, honest discussion. Hey, listen, just I want to throw it out there. One of our sponsors is Grant saloon. Mike and I have been there we go there. We'll just sit there and talk stuff out. It's right in Clifton. It's a nice little family restaurant and that's that's that's what we all need as police officers. Yes, we go out and we drink but we really don't get into it. We really don't get into it because I don't think I don't think I would be able to, I would be able to but with with group therapy that Mike and I go to, that's one of the few places I ever felt normal. Because I know they're all as fucked up as I am. Maybe I was a little bit more fucked up. Wow.
Mike Failace:Now when when you're going through your problems, did you talk to any like state police or state PBA, Psych doctors or anything like that?
Unknown:Absolutely not,
Mike Failace:you wouldn't get your department totally out of it
Unknown:totally out of it. Because you just have to tell them, You're out sick and you're going for help. You don't have to give them the whole reason for it. Well, you
Kevin Donaldson:are you're in a department you're in, you're in an anomaly. So you're I know the department you're in it's large. And it's it's got some perks when it comes to sick time. The smaller departments who don't have that luxury who can't hide in a large department, one of the benefits of working in a larger department because you as long as you're not first and you're not last, you can sort of hang out in the middle there and not be seen. With a smaller department like Mike and I were involved in, there's no Hidin
Mike Failace:you got to take some sick time off your clothes, and overtime, now that's gonna cause some shit.
Unknown:But that's the thing with moment of silence that we want to bring it to the forefront where the people that are in charge, they're in those small departments can make it okay. And that's the thing. It's the good ol boys mentality where you suck it up. And that's it that's caught, it's contributing to the suicide rub
Mike Failace:some dirt on it. Those days. Like I said, these departments don't, I don't want to say they don't care about mental health, but they don't put enough emphasis on mental health. Like I said, they you're just labeled as damaged goods, you went to your chief said, you know, I'm having some issues mentally now. Now you're dead, damaged goods. And that's not how it should be. And that's
Unknown:what we need to change the infrastructure so that our younger generation doesn't have to suffer like if you go to a horrific scene, give me the day off, give me time off right after a suicide, I gotta go to the domestic I gotta go to the casualty and MBA, like, Give me a break.
Kevin Donaldson:So how do we change it?
Unknown:By doing what you're doing getting it out there. And hopefully, our chiefs will see this and take it seriously and care enough about their men and women that they want to keep everybody safe and not very few of them do and not make it a such a I don't want to say a closet thing but like to be ashamed. Don't Ask Don't Tell kind of thing with
Mike Failace:the Chiefs may see you as a liability.
Kevin Donaldson:Once you
Mike Failace:do that, yes, your liability and the Chiefs don't want to but they
Unknown:need to realize that they need to realize yes or no. Do they want that body on their conscience?
Mike Failace:Exactly. They don't care.
Kevin Donaldson:I can't say all of them. I won't say all of them because that's an overgeneralization. But I know a lot of them. I know. A lot of them, they really don't care. They're less concerned with safety. And more concerned with liability, like bison. And that's, that's a sin. But there's programs out there moment of silence. Give me a window and how you would help somebody get through these horrible thoughts
Catherine Angel:with moment of silence, but obviously so blue suicide comes into it. Loose suicide is within moment of silence, but it's its own separate entity. And pretty much what we do is that we try to help you we try to if we can't help you, we'll find somebody that can help you.
Kevin Donaldson:That's a Henry Ford thing. I don't know all the answers, but I know where to find.
Catherine Angel:Yes. So that's what we're all about. And we've been trying to get the word more out there. Doing different now with a video that we just released not too long ago, the film that we did, we put it on YouTube, and we just want to spread the word and say it's okay not to be okay.
Mike Failace:We did a show just on that it's okay to be you know, to say you're not okay.
Catherine Angel:The stigma needs to end
Mike Failace:it's because we were macho cops you know, even even females I don't think they're much I'm saying law enforcement it's it's I don't want to say a tough guy attitude a tough girl attitude, but we're supposed to be the big strong protectors you know, and we could still be there still can be but you should be able to show weakness. Exactly. It's okay to cry.
Catherine Angel:We're human beings there's nothing wrong with that never cry.
Mike Failace:I do it my room outside I'll make you Oh, hey now,
Unknown:I just want to say one thing will be ugly and everything with blue suicide. If you contact us if you're feeling like you want to go to rehab, and you are afraid of your department come to me personally come to us and we will find a way I'll fucking tell your department you have an eating disorder you're a sex addict something it's natural when they go there other than you know opiates and alcoholism so you're not labeled because it's it's more well received. If you are a sex addict or a gambler than it is if you're an alcoholic, so we will fucking find a way find a loophole, and we will get you the help you need.
Kevin Donaldson:I've given out my personal email on on air plenty of times, and I'll do it again because I'm stupid sometimes this bites me in the morning, you think it does
Mike Failace:small ticket
Kevin Donaldson:Mike's always on his knees that know. If you're having these thoughts, and I'm dead serious here, if you're ever having these thoughts, I've been there. So I come from a place of understanding it, you can reach out to me Kay Donaldson at the suffering podcast.com. But let everybody know how we can reach out to if you're in need. If you're an officer in need. How can they reach out to a moment of silence blue suicide, or any of those places that you go? Give us some information?
Catherine Angel:Okay, you can reach to me, my email is Katherine with a C at the blue magazine.com. And blue
Kevin Donaldson:magazine has has an Instagram presence. They have a Facebook presence and a Twitter presence.
Catherine Angel:Yes, we do. And we also have blue site.org as well as moment of silence Inc. That work.
Kevin Donaldson:Alright, so they are the websites for those? Yes, those websites. Okay. So we'll put those websites in our show notes. You don't have to worry,
Unknown:you don't have to worry. I'm used to analyze. If anybody has a problem, like let's say you want to go beat your wife up, you're having a domestic or some shit, call us first we'll go pick you up. So beat her up for arrested. You know, we do that we're like a family will help anybody do anything
Kevin Donaldson:they know if you go beat their wife up, they know and it's an assault and it's not a domestic beater
Unknown:up I'm a stop, hey, I'm a pick him up and take them to a diner and talk to him so that he doesn't lose his job. Or her she doesn't lose her job, right? Like we do those kinds of things. If you need just somewhere to go and sit, one of us will go and sit with you. You know, we are armed. Don't forget that. So don't try anything. But
Kevin Donaldson:the one that I know off of hand is at the blue magazine.com on Instagram, that one I know off the top of my head. And from there, it should be a jumping off point to the other Instagram.
Catherine Angel:Yeah, should be a jumping a little magazine.com.
Mike Failace:Do TCO and
Kevin Donaldson:so we're coming to the end of this thing here. And I asked all the guests the same question I'm gonna start with you, Kathy is the suffering that you've seen, and I'm sure you have personal suffering, although we didn't get into it because you're shy and you're scared. You're still scared? What do you think all this suffering that you've seen, has taught you?
Catherine Angel:Um, it has taught me to always, you know, try to get help look for help. That it's okay to get help. It's taught me a lot of things. I guess. I see the signs, see it in other officers, co workers, and just try to help people try to be there for them and never forget about myself too, because I might get lost along the way as well. But I'll try my best.
Kevin Donaldson:Now you have our numbers. So
Mike Failace:we all we all step off at? Yeah, we
Kevin Donaldson:call me I got GPS. Don't worry about it. You're not gonna we're not gonna let you slip through the cracks. Erica, you've really been through the wringer TWICE, TWICE. No more 33 strikes, you're out. Three strikes, you're out. So what do you think that's taught you?
Unknown:It taught me like I told you before, we all have the same level, just different levels, not to judge people. Because like you said, we're one mistake away. It taught me that compassion for myself. And understand, if I knew better, I would have done better. And it taught me to teach as many people as I can, what I've learned, and not to be afraid to talk about my fuck ups then and, and just be me. And if you like, if you like it, if you don't know,
Mike Failace:it's funny, because we have met a few times I never knew your like real suffering story like that. says look at you who's open up to you. I don't know if you if you if I just wasn't seeing the signs or
Unknown:were very good at hiding. Very good at hiring you
Kevin Donaldson:were very good at hiding. I'm not so much anymore. And it's so I talk about when we when we eat our feelings. And we don't go home and talk to our spouses or significant others. That was always seen as how cops dealt with everything. But is it really the right way? I go out and I'll go on shows or I'll talk I've talked to at Blue magazine events and bear my soul and cry and really show a different side of me that I'm not used to showing. I was not like that when I was working. That's the way I want to be. That's the way I want to be remembered. I don't want to be that that stoic guy that never shows emotion because it's not healthy. wasn't healthy for me anyway and I'm sure it's not healthy for other people as well. But I thank you both for coming in here and talking about this is really important topic topic for us.
Mike Failace:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what what you ladies are doing with with blue magazine and what Danny started over there and I mean, it's fantastic. It's a place that that cops in need could really go to and feel comfortable and do it
Catherine Angel:and we want to expand we want to make it bigger. Well, we're
Kevin Donaldson:always at your disposal you know that you call on us whenever you want, or that you've helped us out and we're going to continue because it's a it's a worthy cause that we really truly believe in it both of us have are intimately involved. So that's gonna do it for this episode. If you like what we're putting out don't forget to hit the like and subscribe button. And let's talk about all the stuff that we learned today. We are all one mistake away. The world's better off without you which is the biggest line of bullshit ever spoken. We all have the same devils just at different levels. But most importantly, don't think you know everything but know where to find it. And that's going to do it for this episode of the suffering podcast and suffering of blue suicide with Kathy and Erica and follow us on Instagram Facebook, Twitter, follow Mike at Mike underscored Falaise. Follow me at real Kevin Donaldson of course follow the suffering podcast and we're gonna see on the next episode of suffering podcast
