Episode 82: The Suffering of a Pastor with Ron Lewis

Kevin Donaldson: 0:01

PaSit your ass down, down. Sit your ass down, down. Let's talk about suffering. It's time to start Sit down sit your ass down this is gonna hurt let's talk about suffering, suffering. It's time to start the pain, the pain. This is gone. It's time for the sufferings podcast podcast. An angel sat on my shoulder and pontificated the proper way to live. This angel impressed the virtue of patience in the pursuit, embrace all that is good in life and the fruits of your choices will come back tenfold. This angel promise joy. On the other shoulder, said the devil, he sold a pretty good package with the promise of instant gratification, little effort, pleasure, and freedom from sorrow and pain. The devil promised All this and much more. And it could be mine in the snap of a finger. The devil promised happiness. There is a difference between happiness and joy. Happiness feels good. It's relatively easy, but it's very temporary. Joy is unshakable and lasts forever, but takes an enormous amount of work and suffering. So I'm Kevin Donaldson here with Mike Felice. And on this episode of the suffering podcast, we sit down with Ron Lewis to discuss the suffering of a Pastor Ron took all his suffering and use that suffering to build a community of joy. Thank you so much, Pastor Ron, for sitting down with us. Great to see you. My

Mike Failace: 2:02

Pastor Ron Lewis, they call him the bishop I heard.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 2:05

I read Mike exposes me. Yes.

Kevin Donaldson: 2:08

Well, just so you know, Pastor Ron just came out with a book and we're going to talk a little bit more about this. In this episode. It's miracles in Manhattan. It's a wonderful book. It's a very, I would call serendipitous. Just whether it's chance, and it's going to lead into our social media.

Mike Failace: 2:22

I would call it serendipitous. But I don't know what's happened there. But it's mean. So I'll just take your word for

Kevin Donaldson: 2:27

word. Next Next episode, I'm putting a dictionary right here. So you can just look at that to our podcast. That's it. So let's go. Every week we take a question from one of our guests, or one of our audience members. And this week was perfect for you because it has specifically to do with miracles in Manhattan. And Margaret from Kearney writes, do you believe in coincidence and why? So Pastor Ron, you're our guest today. So let's, let's hear from you.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 2:53

Yeah, I personally do not believe in coincidence, in an absolute sense that I believe that this world has order. And that God, it, I believe we're in an open universe, that means that we can connect with God. And we believe that God acts without crossing our will. At the same time there is freewill. But there is God's plan and purpose. And so I would say we live in a structured universe where things happen, both good and evil, and bad happens. But I don't think anything is coincidental. I think everything has a reason and a purpose. Good or bad. I think God uses everything and anything for his glory without being the cause of evil or sinful stuff, that God is good. He's fundamentally good. He cares for all of his creation, all of humanity. And yet he has a plan and a purpose. And sometimes we don't understand that we live in a lot of mysteries, which if that's what somebody means by coincidental, then sure, I understand what you're saying there. But in an absolute way, I don't think anything is is is ultimately coincidental. I think everything has a plan. There's a purpose, there's a divine plan and a divine purpose. And we're not just people living in chaos here. We do, are all part of a plan.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:17

That's there's there's a lot of different schools of thought when it comes to religion, like you have the Calvinists belief, which is like you take a basketball and you spin it, and that's what that's what God did. He just put the basketball up there and spun it and whatever happens, happens. And then you have those that are believed in predestiny. And you sort of just intermingled those two theories where you're not interfering with freewill, sort of like a Bruce Almighty type of situation. That's it. Yeah. It says you can do anything you want. Just can't screw with freewill. I tried to screw with this guy's freewill every day.

Mike Failace: 4:46

Bruce Almighty when He pulled the sun closer. Yes. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:51

That was from a Jimmy Stewart movie. So yeah. I like that. He tells his girlfriend or his wife. Yeah, it was it a wonderful I'm gonna give you the moon. Mike, what do you think?

Mike Failace: 5:00

You know, I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but I definitely believe everything happens for a reason. You know, sometimes you're putting a spot for a reason. Sometimes you're not in a spot for a reason. You know, number one story when I was growing up, a friend of mine was there, we're gonna go down the shore, and had all bunch of guys who were gonna get in the car and go down ashore. And I was gonna go and something happened at the last minute I didn't go. They wound up getting into a car accident. One kid was killed, another kid was paralyzed. I could have been in that car that day. And that's something I think about to this day was a coincidence that didn't go over. Was it? Like you said, Maybe God's will?

Kevin Donaldson: 5:38

No, it was the devil playing a trick on me. But good me, you know that your life unfolds from the decisions that you made that freewill decision. So it's a little scary to think about it if you just take a step right too far. Or you take a step left, too far. And next thing you know, a couch is falling on. Yeah,

Mike Failace: 5:58

it's weird, too. Because one of the guys that was in the car that day, I still see him all the time. And he's just not the same person. You know? I think about it all the time. Like I should have been I could have been.

Kevin Donaldson: 6:08

I don't believe in coincidence, I really don't. I'm going to take the other big because he's just trying to be different trying to be just trying to be wasn't

Pastor Ron Lewis: 6:17

sure where he was coming from? Yeah, I put it on the table.

Mike Failace: 6:20

We've been doing this for over a year, I never know where he's coming from. Isn't that interesting?

Kevin Donaldson: 6:24

I look at my personal incident, my shooting. And I used to look at it as just bad luck. Bad coincidence. Oh, my. And now being so far removed from it, there was a purpose behind it. Right. There was a purpose behind my suffering. I had to go through it. It was meant for me to lead me in a different direction, to lead me to this show to the suffering podcast to lead me to you to lead me to Mike. You know, Mike and I knew each other for 25 years, but we didn't really know each other. So I'm just taking that one example, which sounds really horrible. Like I was in a wrong place at the wrong time. But I wasn't I was in the right place. I was right where I was supposed to be at that particular time when I needed to be there. So I don't

Mike Failace: 7:08

Marla and I, I'm sure you've heard this before, too about your shooting, because I've heard it about mine. People would say, I'm glad it was you in that situation. Because you have some cops out that may not have handled that situation correctly. I'm sure

Kevin Donaldson: 7:22

could have gone south real quick. Absolutely.

Mike Failace: 7:24

I mean, listen, I'm not not blowing smoke up or either either over answers. Most cops probably would have done the same thing. But a lot of people said You know, I'm glad it was you. That was

Kevin Donaldson: 7:33

the thing with us. And the story we're about to get in with you is there's the you had to do it. You had to do it to be who you are. Because without your past. You're not passed around Lewis. You're not Mike Felice. I'm not Kevin Donaldson. That's so true. It's truth. So that's why I don't believe in coincidence. Margaret, thank you so much for sending that and keep sending in your questions. We'll try to get them on and that was Margaret

Mike Failace: 7:56

from Kearney. That's a local girl. That's a local girl. We

Kevin Donaldson: 7:58

try to pull them from New York, California. We try to stay within our audience. Before we go any further I want to thank our biggest sponsor, that's Toyota of Hackensack. I buy my cars from Toyota Hackensack, because I trust them, they I know they're going to treat me fairly, I know, they're going to give me a good deal. And they're going to have the selection that I want. So go to Toyota of hackensack.com and let them find you a car. So Pastor Ron, and I'm gonna call you Pastor Ron, because I think you've you are if they're 40 years of 50 years, a minute 40 years of ministry. Yes, right. 40 years, 40 years of ministry, I think you've earned that title. If anybody is bestowed that honor on anybody. I think that's that shouldn't be missed.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 8:33

Thank you, Kevin. Why

Mike Failace: 8:34

don't we call the bishop, the bishop?

Kevin Donaldson: 8:37

Because it sounds to Canada as I read that

Mike Failace: 8:39

bio, before I came on, thank you by commonly referred to as the fish. It's

Pastor Ron Lewis: 8:42

an affectionate term, it simply means overseer. And when you outgrow one church, and you start working in other churches, now, it's dozens of churches that that that seems to be the title that works. But I love being called pastor. It's what I've been doing a lot of people. It's all about people. It's all about people. It's not about big time theological terms and trying to, you know, come across as if you're some real genius and everybody else's, you're condescending, just like looking down upon none of that. It's all about people God's interest. My interest is people.

Kevin Donaldson: 9:15

And I want to ask this, this very distinct question to you, when you're going out and giving your talks. Would it be because I already know the answer to this? This is a loaded question. If you were speaking to 10,000 people, and you were able to get a quarter of your message out, or you're able to speak to that one person get 100% of your message out which would you prefer? I already know this answer just knowing you in a short time that I do, what do you think that would be?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 9:42

So I think the message would be good news. Then that God sent His Son into the world to live a life that we could not live to die death that we should have died, but he did it in our place. And he was wrapped up a dead man put in a tomb. Three days later he rose. And he saying to everyone that I'm available, and if you repent, meaning change your mind and turn from your ways, and receive this, that gift of faith that your whole life will be put on a brand new trajectory, and you'll be changed from the inside out.

Mike Failace: 10:27

And then we got Easter.

Kevin Donaldson: 10:29

We gotta hide the eggs. We gotta, we gotta hide the eggs.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 10:32

My kids are all into the egg. Oh, yeah. So

Kevin Donaldson: 10:35

they, I never understood that it's just like, I don't understand the Christmas tree with with the Nativity. But I'm sure it wasn't always this way for you. And you know, everybody has to find their path in life. And you have a pretty interesting

Mike Failace: 10:47

so you weren't born saying I'm gonna be a pastor?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 10:51

Heck no.

Kevin Donaldson: 10:53

See me I lost my faith in college. I did. I lost my faith. I had very I was very tied into my faith went away. You're an atheist. Is that right? No, I was an atheist. I was going into college for theological studies. Oh my god, and I lost my faith. I had a class taught by a, an ex Jesuit priest called Dr. John Becker was the Bible as literature because when you read the Bible as literature, sure, it's violent. It's violent. You're right about that. You know, it's tough, isn't it? David cuts off foreskin Saul told him to go get the foreskin, David cuts. I mean, think about that. You don't just cut off the foreskin of a man and let them walk away. It doesn't happen that way. The whole thing comes off. So it's a violent book.

Mike Failace: 11:28

I am not going to touch that. Nowhere near this, what's

Kevin Donaldson: 11:32

your teeth? But you know, it's it's not. It's a violent book. And so I lost my faith for a long time. I lost my faith. And it thankfully it returned. But when you were growing up, like what was your path?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 11:46

Yeah. Okay, so I started in a in a secular Jewish family. And that was through my father's influence. That's how he was raised. My mother went along with it. She said, Let's do this. We went in the synagogue. And my father disappeared. Roughly when I was around 10 or 11 years old, he literally disappeared. He just that was a it was in it was in the 60s. He was he was a musician. trained. And he was Atlanta Symphony. He was trained at the highest level of conservatory music and all of that. And he just reached that place where there were the creative arts took over and he became a different man. And it was violent. It was it was when he left

Kevin Donaldson: 12:32

did he physically disappeared? Or he disappeared as your father figure or both? Both?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 12:36

Yeah, he just, he just no traveling with the Grateful Dead or anything like probably. I've never heard about the Grateful Dead. But there was it was a lot of Anegada. Davide was was right. So yeah, he was the early one of the early responders to the drug scene. And it just, it just radically altered his brain, his mind his life and how he treated us. And so there was both a sadness when he left but also gladness. Things just began to settle the sigh of relief, maybe totally. And so we became we became a family of just agnostic, we quit everything. And then when I was 15 years old, the lady up the street, the proverbial kind of Saturday night, church lady came down, knocked on the door, told me she wanted to give me a gift. Turns out it was a Bible. I'd never read the Bible. I never knew God. I never cared about God. I was just an angry kid who had a busted family. And this woman gave me that I just sort of laughed when she left. And when you're in the south, you say yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. All that you just go through the pipe things. And then when she left, I just made fun of her. And I thought Who is this woman? She's just crazy. And I took it out. My mother came out when I was 18 going off to college and she said, Hey, you have this left in your closet, you got this book that I'd never cracked open, took it off to college. And for some strange reason for the first time I began to read it, uh, saw the Table of Contents, the book of Psalms, the book of Job, the book of you know, like, all these things I didn't I was totally 100% biblically illiterate. And yet somehow, someway, I saw my brother's name. It was Mark, I began to read the gospel of Mark and I had this encounter while I was a college student. So while you were walking away from God in college, which is a very common story, what's uncommon is somebody who meets God and God pursued me and I had a heart change while I was in the dorm, and it was just a game changer for me. It just changed who I was. It was it was a change for the inside. And it changed how I behaved on the outside. Now this was at University of North Carolina, I would imagine right? Yeah. So I was in the UNC system the whole time. And so he's got the Tar Heel blue hat on

Kevin Donaldson: 14:39

big college at a big college think about how rare This is where other kids are going out and party and you're sitting in your dorm finding God

Pastor Ron Lewis: 14:48

Yeah, I know that's amazing. I had a little trickle over the party's you know, horse little trick your cube with the Bible

Mike Failace: 14:54

down for a couple minutes.

Kevin Donaldson: 14:56

That's that's an important point.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 14:58

It was a process for me. It wasn't

Kevin Donaldson: 15:00

You're a human being, which means you're fallible. You are not infallible. You've done all the things that human beings do. You've you've imbibed, I'm sure you know, you've sinned and done all different things. And if you didn't, and if you told me you didn't, I would think less of you because I know you weren't telling the truth.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 15:21

Sure. Well, I will say, and this is being transparent here, but I will say that two or three things left me instantly. When, when I had this encounter in the dorm room. One is that I was no longer angry. It was gone. It was just, I can't explain it. But it was just I had peace. First time in my life. 18 years old, had peace. Second thing is, it was I instantly quit smoking cigarettes. Just stopped. Cold Turkey, just cold turkey. I wasn't even like I was trying. It's like, Oh, I haven't had a smoke. Then it's a week later than it's two weeks, and you just forget about it. Now, you know, I could still here I am, like, decades later. Sometimes I smell a cigarette. And I think wouldn't that be nice?

Kevin Donaldson: 16:10

I'm a reformed smoker. I smell cigarette smoke. I'm like, Thank God, I stopped because it does not smell good. Does it do when I was doing it? It was it seemed like the right thing to do at the time. But I had a friend of mine who quit smoking, and somebody told him just go cold turkey comes back two weeks later, you know, I bought it I bought a pound of cold turkey and put it in my lip and it's not working. I'm not kidding. You know, like, that's a real that's a real

Mike Failace: 16:31

thing. That's Kevin did grow up with the smartest people

Kevin Donaldson: 16:35

know, this is North Jersey. This happened in North Jersey. But that's so brilliant Jewish kid finds God. And, you know, I have to point this out. Because there's a lot of people out there that don't realize that Jesus was Jewish. I'm not kidding you. Oh, man. My father was one of them. My father I go, you know, Jewish carpenter. I go, You know, Jesus was a Jew. No, he wasn't like, was Catholic? No, he's Christian. Really, really. But that's the that's the biblical illiteracy that you talk about. And there's a lot of people that have it.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 17:08

Well, the whole community I mean, every Christian owes its, they we owe our existence of our faith to the Jewish people who gave us the concept of God, a creator, a single God that God is, is all powerful knowing I'll present that

Kevin Donaldson: 17:28

as a sense of humor to Oh, man, he's got a sense of humor. For real, yeah. But so I speak about this in one of our sponsors, Bella, dama, cigars by the way, go to suffer, go to Belle dama cigars.com Put in the suffering 10. And you'll get a special discount, but our very good friend Chantal leave it is Jewish. And we we go back and forth all the time, because she is not a practicing Jew, she is more of a Christian person. But, you know, I consider her my sister. for many different reasons. Like I've never had a sister, I only had a brother, I never had a sister, because we connect on on a lot of different things because she is the spiritual, which I'm always leery of spiritual people. spiritual people get the opportunity to do whatever they want to do,

Mike Failace: 18:16

you know, and blame it on their spirituality.

Kevin Donaldson: 18:18

It's like, I'm going to drink a lot tonight. But I'm spiritual. But I'm spiritual. I'm going to stick around.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 18:25

I'm sure the drink helps you to be spiritual.

Kevin Donaldson: 18:27

I'm going to sleep around when Don't worry, I'm spiritually and I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual. So as always, that always shocked me. Now prior, would you consider your father leaving just one of your biggest sufferings in your life?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 18:41

It was my initial sub era of suffering, death and our initial foray into suffering. Right? Right. So when you when you have a dad who comes to get you at school, and his hair is down to his bottom, it's cool now, but back then it wasn't so cool, you know, and your parents embarrassed you and and then your, your there's there, those violent moments, where my father was actually trying to kill my mother choke her to death, and I jumped on his back, and then he swung me often, it brought enough sense into him to stop me these were, this is what goes on behind the scenes, in closed door homes, was that like a drug induced thing? It was not, it was he was just an angry, violent man. And then when I had my encounter in college, and it was it was three years later, I was a junior in college. And I was reading Malikai chapter for this. That's the last book of the Old Testament. And by the way, that with the Jewish part of it, they not only gave us the concept of God, but they gave us the Bible, they gave us the prophets, they gave us the covenants of God. They gave us the wisdom of God, they gave us Peter, Paul and Mary they gave us you know, the whole gang. So and Jesus Himself of course, So, that moment in college and I got the last verse of the Old Testament, it says that God says that I will restore the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers. And when I read that I knew on the inside, it's like the Bible, sometimes it's it's called Living inactive. And when that word came to me, I knew that I need to go find him. It had been 10 years. So I went, and I found my father. He was in California, I went and visited him, we got reconciled. And that's just a simple statement with with three days of just hard, heartbroken conversations. But here's a lot of tears, but he manned up. And he said, I'm sorry. And I looked at him and I said, I want you to know, I forgive you. Forgiveness is probably one of the most powerful things in the universe, that really helps to turn suffering around. And we taught we suffer. But for me to get that load off of my chest off of my heart, the poison left me at that moment, and then the his issues became, he had to own his issues, because his own son would not condemn him and keep us in that vicious cycle of death and revenge and destruction and bitterness, and unforgiveness. So I walked away a free, a free young man, I was free, and it changed my life. And a year or two later, he called me said, can I come and see you, I was in Chapel Hill. And he came out to see me. And that became his turning point where he just broke and he cried for like two hours and just wept and wept and wept. And then I called my brother, he was at Duke, he was a Duke guy was a Chapel Hill guy, and what's been good holiday dinners at your tremendous, greatest rivalry in history is just so awesome. But my brother came over to witness I just said to my dad, before he got on the plane, I said, I'm going to baptize you. And so filled up the bath. We didn't have any water. We didn't have any holy water at church, why don't we just add a tub. So baptized my dad and the tub, he got on that plane. And he ended up moving back to be a part of my life and our church. He married after three wives and three broken homes and all that stuff. He married, the sweetest, middle aged woman in our community. And she's still with us today. Janie, they had a very, very happy and joyful marriage, he became a counselor, he went back and got his second master's degree, this time in Christian therapy. And he became a man who healed a lot of men of their afflictions and diseases, mental diseases, mental health problems and all that,

Kevin Donaldson: 22:26

because he, it sounds like he forgave himself. You got that? Right. And that's the big thing is because, yes, Mike, and I struggle with this. I never forgive him. I can't. But

Mike Failace: 22:36

he's beyond forgive me. But my just deal with each other. Now,

Kevin Donaldson: 22:40

Mike, and I have I think we have a tough time forgiving ourselves. Because when our lives were in chaos, and had no direction, we did some very unhealthy things. We did some bad things. And to the point where, how can I ever come out of this, I can't, I'm a horrible person, I don't belong here. I just, there's, there's no place in this world for me anymore. The world would be better off without me. Yeah, we in then you start going down a real big rabbit hole. But we have a tough time forgiving ourselves. And we see this with other people that we help people that are close to us who are going through their trials. You know, just you know, one of our good friends here is about to check himself in the rehab. And I sent him a message. So like, just you got to forgive yourself, and you're not the person that you're making yourself out to be, you know, we met we build ourselves up, we build things up in our mind. And we create these scenarios that become reality after a while. Because we we just can't forgive our so you

Mike Failace: 23:41

try to live up to that false reality. Yes, yeah, that reality for yourself. And it's, it's a false reality. And if you don't meet those standards,

Kevin Donaldson: 23:51

we all do this to ourselves, I'm sure. 40 years of ministry. Um, I don't know you all that well, but I'm sure there's times where you build things up in your mind, and you create these scenarios that aren't exactly real. I

Pastor Ron Lewis: 24:03

think we all do that. So there's a guy named Dr. Daniel, amen. He's done more brain scans than anyone in history. He's in California. He's got clinics all over the country. And it's his research that helped me to understand that 80% of all of our thoughts are negative. And he has this this these ways that he's describes this as like an ant colony of ants getting in your kitchen, and we've all had this happen before and how do you get rid of them? So for him as a NTS, automatic negative thoughts can only leave through Pat's positive, affirming thoughts. And he teaches you that we have to change our mind on certain things, and we cannot be stuck on herself or else and our own issues and our own failures. That's still being stuck with yourself. I love Rick Warren, who wrote that book, The Purpose Driven Life that 10s of millions of people read this book, but he gets begins with a very powerful sentence, and it's opening sentences. It's not about you. It's not about you, or you Failure.

Kevin Donaldson: 25:00

It's not about us anymore. We, we've come to realize that we were on that we're on a long journey, and we were taking our time, trust me, we're moving at a snail's pace. But we're trying our best to realize that it's not about us anymore. We've had our thing we've had our time,

Mike Failace: 25:14

that whole idea of 80% of negative thoughts. It's almost like, like what we talked about with suffering, you almost need that negative in your life, to actually like, push through and get better if you had positive thoughts your whole life and, and live this rosy life, and you probably wouldn't appreciate everything you got,

Kevin Donaldson: 25:33

nor would you have the perspective to speak to anybody. And that's why I think your message is so powerful, because there's no question that there's no but yeah, there's nobody that speaks like you. Who doesn't know what suffering is. It's just it's impossible. You know, if you're, if you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth, and had everything that you ever dreamed of, there's no way you're going to be able to connect with me. I gotcha. There's just there's no way and that's why you know, your good friend, Pastor, Pastor Adam, Burt, he connects with me because we're sports guys. And I know he's got some I know he's got some junk. And we talk very frequently, but he's a lot bigger

Mike Failace: 26:09

to me, so I have to be nice to him. He fights

Kevin Donaldson: 26:11

better than you, that's for sure. He's got he actually uses a fish instead of like,

Mike Failace: 26:14

I've seen some of his fights. He's not

Pastor Ron Lewis: 26:18

he got beat up pretty bad. Quite a few times, but now he's a beast. He's so fit. Yeah,

Kevin Donaldson: 26:23

I've worked out. Like rock

Mike Failace: 26:25

solid. Totally.

Kevin Donaldson: 26:26

I've worked out with him a couple of times in 450 something year old man he can he can still

Pastor Ron Lewis: 26:30

move. Oh, god, he's got the good.

Kevin Donaldson: 26:33

Well, do you do you subscribe to that? Were you to be good here. You have to be good here. That's that's something that Mike and I both

Pastor Ron Lewis: 26:41

mean, the heart and the brain connection. The body mind connection more body, mind and spirit soul body, right. So

Kevin Donaldson: 26:48

by I always feel cleaner, when I've had a good workout and I've wiped everything out.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 26:52

Oh, man. Absolutely. We know. It's all it's all about. By Design. Those three work together. The Scripture is so clear on that, that now bodily exercise is of limited value in the sense that it can't get you to God. You know, I mean, you can look like a mini God, but it can't get you to God. And but it's good. It's the Scripture describes that as being important that we we are that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Kevin Donaldson: 27:19

You know, they have certain words in the Bible they have pleasing to the eye like Joseph was pleasing to the eye or some somebody else's, right, I think so one of our sponsors is X body. So X body is a health and wellness center. And Joseph would be a perfect fit for this because they do everything from gut checks. They just try to keep your body together. Because if your body is falling apart, your mind is going to fall apart. Absolutely. And they'll do. They'll do different types of therapy. They'll do IV they'll do they'll check your your liver enzymes, they'll check anything you want, just trying to make you a better person. Because like I said, You need to have a solid body to have a solid mind.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 27:57

I believe it man. So what's your address?

Kevin Donaldson: 28:01

Right here in Wayne, go to x bought us.com. And you'll find out all the information for them. But they're there. They're really good. We had a meeting there beautiful place. But

Mike Failace: 28:09

that's now you know why his mind is so screwed up to just hit upon. He doesn't. I keep telling him he's got to take care of himself in order to get his head right. The

Kevin Donaldson: 28:19

first time I met Pastor Ron, now I listen. I don't look like the most religious person in the world. But the first time I met Pastor Ron, he saw me in all my glory. I knew you were common, but I didn't tatted tattoos all over. He accepted me like I was like,

Pastor Ron Lewis: 28:34

Oh man, I think is pretty cool. Everybody with the TAT has a story and I usually just go right at it. You wouldn't you want people to see it. So we're just asked this very

Kevin Donaldson: 28:43

special. It's very expensive. I want to show it all.

Mike Failace: 28:46

But it's like when will fake breasts I paid for him. I'm gonna show them all paid for. You're gonna show him

Pastor Ron Lewis: 28:53

I didn't hear that from me.

Kevin Donaldson: 28:56

But you you you found this this new path in college, which again, is is very rare in itself. Sure. How did that lead into the ministry? Yeah, that's a that's a you know, it's one thing reading the Bible. It's another thing going out and teaching the Bible Oh, man.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 29:13

Yeah, so for me it was it was a it was a progressive discovery of who God is. Knowing getting to know God because if you get to know God, you begin to trust God, or love God. Because what's not to love about God if you really understand who he is, and what he's about versus what you've heard or what you think or what you feel, because a lot of us tend to want to blame God for every bad thing that happens to us. We're just in a screwed up world. It's messed up. It's jacked up. But we're the ones who are responsible for that. We cause the mess that we live in. And for the most part, and so the world that we live in is fallen. It just it's on our DNA. There's when when Adam had that first he and II began to rebel from God. I mean, here, they had the choice of all these hundreds and 1000s of fruit trees. And God says, well, there's just one, which is the test, the ultimate test. And that's where they failed. And so everything, then their separation from God, their kids, one of their kids killed, you know, killed his brother, which is family dysfunction to the max, then there's the separation internally, where they begin to feel guilt and shame, guilt and shame wasn't in the original creation. That's something that we all have to work on, we carry this baggage that God does not want us to carry. And then there's the environmental separation and dysfunction as well. I mean, the world, the world is falling apart. So for me, I just more and more started seeking God for what is my purpose in life. And that's when things began to be more more and more clear, I thought I was gonna go to graduate school for psychology and different things like that. And it just became very clear that God had given me a gift of persuasion and influence and, and helping people to get right with God. And so that became my mission. And I didn't go off to a seminary somewhere, not not immediately, I did later, years later. But I just began to see Bible studies form, one formed in my dorm room and things happen and then grow into a church and, and meaning there's a body of believers who are committed to one another in a community that are going to help each other and they're going to build each other up and not tear each other down and help everyone to begin to achieve their dreams and goals and aspirations. So that's, that's where my pastoring began.

Kevin Donaldson: 31:38

But if you're pastoring, how did that change your perspective on suffering? I'll give you an example of how it changed. Mine is instead of me looking at, man, why did this happen? This This is awful. This, like, I must be the unluckiest guy in the world, again, gets back to that coincidence thing, where now I might look at things and study it a little bit. I say, there's a purpose behind this. I just haven't seen it yet. Yeah, I'm not at an elevated position where I can, I'm able to see this stuff where, you know, if you believe in God, and listen, we're talking here theologically. It's your higher power, whoever your higher power is sure. He's up in an elevated position, he can see the entire battlefield. Yeah, things that you and I can't see. So then there's you only see the fight in front of you. Right. So there's faith involved in it. So now I look at things a little different. So did it change your perspective on how suffering is? Oh, it

Pastor Ron Lewis: 32:28

totally did. I mean, that story with my own father, he became such a great man that when he was dying on July 4, he died 2012. So 10 years ago, he was dying. And I walked out of his hospital room and their Big John

Kevin Donaldson: 32:44

Adams, Thomas Jefferson fan. No, because they both died on July 4.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 32:47

I didn't. I didn't know that I don't get an hours of each other. So they walked out of his room when he this is like the day before he passed, and there was this long line of mostly men. And I said, What do you guys all do in here are say we came to say goodbye. And they were some had tears in their eyes and begin to look at how God can and his own family rejected him and said, We don't believe that you can be this way. We don't believe that you're and they, they were still so stuck in the pain that he calls for his family that they could not forgive. Whereas my brother and I definitely forgave and built a relationship with a man who was formerly crazy that he wanted it and he earned it. And it became the movie

Kevin Donaldson: 33:33

mercy may or about I can only imagine. Oh, have you seen that movie? I

Pastor Ron Lewis: 33:38

did is so it's a great movie. Great movie, but

Kevin Donaldson: 33:41

that sounds your parallel lives with Bart Maillard similar. He says it he goes I watched I watched God transform a guy who I thought was a monster down to the man that I wanted to become. Right. Which you know if you if you ever have children or a messed up relationship with your father, watch that there's no reason there's no way you're not crying during that movie. Oh,

Pastor Ron Lewis: 34:02

totally. Yeah, right. Very touching movie

Mike Failace: 34:04

right now. You You said you and your brother reconciled with your father and nobody else from the family did.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 34:10

Or well, my sister was so removed from him because he walked away and she had a stepdad who she more identified with and, and she she actually She's a wonderful person. I mean, our whole family was so torn apart, so broken and broke. Just so jacked up but every month my brother's pastor and Scandinavia. My sister became a pastor. Yeah, I became as a family business well, I don't know where the business people business but but really it's it was just a fascinating how we would be the least likely to be the ones who serve God and believing God and believing Jesus Christ. But it's been it's been amazing and the part about suffering is it's suffering does change our lives and changes our perspective. I think Some people have got to remember the people maybe who are watching right now. They're going through some of the darkest stuff of their life. And they're wondering if they can hang on. And there is a, a shelf life on trials and suffering. It doesn't. It doesn't. But our job is to get not to avoid it, but to get everything that we can from it, recognizing that our trials can change, and we can be transformed in the process. We call it

Mike Failace: 35:27

the light at the end of the tunnel. There you go. That's it, you know, I mean, we've said it a million times on here, when you're going through that dark tunnel. That's right, you can't see it, you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's so dark in there. You can't even see the people that are standing next to you helping you through that tunnel. Till you get to that light, then you see all the people that were actually helping you.

Kevin Donaldson: 35:47

I was pushing them through. Yeah, I just kept pushing them knocking him down, because he couldn't say,

Pastor Ron Lewis: 35:51

and what's great about that, Kevin, is that you had your own issues. And here now you and you, Mike, you guys are helping others to make it to their finish line and get through. And I one thing that shocked me is how many people don't make it. We have to be there to help that book miracles in Manhattan. When when I compiled 50 stories of 50 people in Manhattan who claim that they experienced a miracle, these are all people who I know personally. And we had hundreds of stories to choose from. So we chose those 50 in the here's what as I was compiling and editing and helping to put this together. One thing I realized is that God doesn't just always act directly in the person. But he raises up other people to come alongside and help people whether that's good news, helping to change your thoughts, sometimes physical needs being met, spiritual needs being met for sure. But God uses people to help others get their miracle.

Kevin Donaldson: 36:43

I'm sure your father felt that way as well. Oh,

Pastor Ron Lewis: 36:45

he to his to his dying day, he loved me and he became a part of my life. He sat. Imagine this, that you go to this local church and there's my dad was sitting behind me, I was on the front row, every Sunday before I would go walk up and speak and get my message. And he would put my his hand on my shoulder. And he would say something like this, he would say I'm really proud of you, son. Wow, I'm really proud of you,

Mike Failace: 37:09

you know, talking about going through it and telling you were one of the people that were walking through that tunnel with your father telling us and right now. I'm right through.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 37:16

Yeah, I had so much pain there. And then I had greater pain. When I went through a divorce 20 years ago, that was that was really a painful thing to be abandoned, rejected, and

Kevin Donaldson: 37:30

did it conflict with your faith? You know, your faith is you know, you you love your spouse. Right? Your spouse is your number one. She's your primary, right? How did that conflict with what you? Your life was?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 37:43

Oh, it was it was a major conflict.

Kevin Donaldson: 37:45

Yeah, but you're human right? Again, this is showing humanity.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 37:49

This is not a People Magazine, where someone has a breakup. And the next week on the front cover, it's who they're really with. Right? So that's Hollywood, it looks great. But it was it was not great. Yet at the same time, it was inevitable because for years, things were slipping and cracking and breaking and more and more issues come up. And it was like I was hanging on to the bumper of a car saying would just stop, stop, stop. Let's please stop. Let's get help. Let's do it

Mike Failace: 38:17

held together with duct tape.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 38:21

Yeah, and and so my, my tendency was just to get busier. And to get busier and then try to you know, like, certainly, God will help me get through this. And I actually thought that he would, I thought that I would have a testimony. And I was hanging in there for my kids. I didn't want them to have to go through this. And then as it would be it, it finally is just it was just an inevitable it's like living two different lives sleeping in two different places. And it just became clear that it was over. And so after that, after that happened, and there's more that could be said, but that's enough. But when when that happened in right after that I get this 911 happened. And I thought well I can identify with this. I'm having my own 911 in my life here and then towers are collapsing. They totally my life was just caving in and out. To my great surprise about a few months after that I got this clear, a clear sense that I need to go to New York City and help the city and get my eyes off of myself. And that was the way that I began to fight back and met my wife Lynette there, which is a really is my wife now I'm not she wasn't my wife, which is a really cool story I met so you're a good storyteller too. You should tell it.

Mike Failace: 39:37

So he's been telling stories his whole life.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 39:39

Maybe you can have her have a better story like Mike and I are friends. That's the biggest lie I tell

Mike Failace: 39:43

life is a facade.

Kevin Donaldson: 39:46

So your wife Lynette who have not met but I've heard you speak about the serendipitous thing and I know it's it's some people call it miracles. Some people call it serendipity. It's depends on how you view the world. I met you by chance out of an ad that you put out trying to start a church, which sounds insane. I'm going to tell you right now, it's David Koresh tried to start a church. Yeah, you know. So it's kind of like, Hey, I'm going to start a podcast. You know, it's pretty much that the next level insanity.

Mike Failace: 40:23

That's how you met me. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 40:25

So you take this, you come to this realization that a church needs to be raised out of the ashes. And what's really nice is you take a great event and you choose or you take a very tragic event, and you create something beautiful out of the ashes. It's like a phoenix, you know, it's like the mythical creature of the Phoenix. And so your your wife story about how she was she was supposed to be in the towers when they went down.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 40:51

And she was working at the World Financial Center, and that way, which is right beside one of their buildings, or the one right beside them, I think went down. But the she was supposed to have a morning meeting that she was leading this with several clients for Deloitte. And that was the one meeting that she ever had where they said, We don't have any offices remaining. yet. We're going to we're going to send you they sent her to their farthest reach office, which was in Hartford, Connecticut. So that morning at

5: 41:22

20am. The car picked her up and drove her to Hartford, Connecticut. And she missed that moment.

Kevin Donaldson: 41:30

So again, getting back to coincidence, getting back to the plan, was it a coincidence, or was it a plan? And there's lots of stories out there just like this, where you just missed it. But then she goes to tennis, Tennessee, what where wasn't New York, was in Connecticut. She was in while she stayed in Connecticut that night. I know that I read that part. But then she was somewhere else where she sees this

Pastor Ron Lewis: 41:52

ad that was that was her Christmas break. She went to her family and Tulsa, Oklahoma,

Kevin Donaldson: 41:57

Tulsa, Oklahoma know started with right. And you had taken it you have gathered up all this money. Yeah. And you put an ad in,

Pastor Ron Lewis: 42:04

it was as a Christmas magazine. So it's a national or international Christian magazine. And it was the first time ever that I ever, I don't really believe in advertising my church, I just either God's gonna do it. Or we're, you know, we're it's not worth it if we have to fund it and prop it up. But this, this 911 was an exception, that we didn't even have an entity, no organization, no money, no bank account. No Name, though. The internet was barely going at that time. So we decided, let's let anyone who may know us, there were four of us, four co founders. And we put that ad we were on we had a theater open up on 44th Street. It's like a simple walk to where the ball drops in Time Square. And when when the ad came out, we call it the miracle on 44th Street, because that's where we were. And and

Kevin Donaldson: 42:57

as it was a miracle and 42nd was already taken 30 34/33 Street, right. So yeah,

Mike Failace: 43:04

42nd Street was back in the day when you used to go hang out over there. I know what you're talking about seeing the

Kevin Donaldson: 43:08

fact that you know where it is, is really bad. But you so do you have a copy of that article? Do you still do you still you got to try to send it to me. I got it. Okay. Yeah, I surely tried to read

Pastor Ron Lewis: 43:19

that. It's just it was just a one pager for three months. It was ridiculously expensive. I just thought, Okay, we're going to take a chance that this, only one person ends up showing up because of that I was so deeply disappointed. I thought at least a couple 100 people will see this. And they'll remember though, they'll know one of us and they'll want to come to our new church and everyone was seeking God in the desperation of none other than me. We all know where we were at that moment how we felt what we were going through, of course, many police officers like you guys know probably know some of them who did not make it. Yeah, tragic time. It still gets to me today. And so the one person who sees it, yeah, she was, it was it was Lynette's mother. We had that magazine that she subscribed to. And she said, Hey, to her mom to Lynette. She said, Look at this. This looks like some guys that you might know. They're starting a church in New York City. And she looked at it. She said, they look like great, guys. I'll go check it out. And so she came in January, whatever it was fifth or whatever. And sounds like a setup. Just so you know. Like I said, I know. It's yeah, what it was quite a coincidence going.

Mike Failace: 44:25

serendipitous. You could use that word too.

Kevin Donaldson: 44:28

So Margaret, Margaret was on something. When she asked this question. I know. Yeah. So but the coincidence. So the plan. She comes to New York and finds you.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 44:39

Yeah, she did. While she first she found a church community. And then it was like a year later when we were seriously getting to know each other.

Kevin Donaldson: 44:49

I can't imagine somebody just trout just showing up. And that's, again, that leads me to believe that again, I don't believe in coincidences. I believe that things are We're meant to be for a reason. Sure. 911 is tragic because it was had to happen. And if you think about what you built with your church, and what happened after 911 the world, the United States became a real, genuine community. I know we've gotten

Pastor Ron Lewis: 45:15

kind of it's so true, isn't it? I agree. 100% and we've gotten a little far away

Kevin Donaldson: 45:19

from it now for sure. Because our memories are very short. All right, you remember you

Mike Failace: 45:23

couldn't even buy an American flag back then. Yeah, we were never so whole as a country as we were right after 911.

Kevin Donaldson: 45:30

And like you as a child, the country has become a little fractured a little broken now.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 45:35

very polarized. divisive, it's it's sad right now.

Kevin Donaldson: 45:39

And I love that feeling of community where it didn't matter whether you were black, white, Asian, Spanish, it male female, you walk down the street. Hey, how you doing? You okay? Hey, how

Pastor Ron Lewis: 45:53

you doing? No, that's exactly right. Remember that anyone community, you know, there, I think there was something like 90 ethnicities died in the in the towers. And our church now has 69 different ethnicities. Our goal is to that we would we would hit that 91 day through our churches in New York City, New Jersey, etc. So really, really amazing that God not only creates but what's more difficult Kevin creation or redemption.

Kevin Donaldson: 46:25

For me, it was redemption.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 46:27

If I think for everybody, for me, it was redemption. It's such an uphill battle. But that's what we experienced on this side of our disasters and our situations. My first marriage that ended and then to meet Lynette, we've been married 17 years right now, now, and she has been the greatest stepmom, she has been an incredible wife. We're madly in love still, after 17 years. It sounds like you know, I might be just be embellishing this or whatever. But actually, I'd never really say it like that, because it's so hard for some people to believe because they still struggle in relationship. But somehow what I went through in my first marriage and what I went through in my childhood, because everything begins in a family, all the dysfunction that we have usually started usually began and it's in the family setting, and then it's generationally passed down and you're

Mike Failace: 47:15

molding yours. When you were a child, that's when you get molded into the person that you are and absolutely

Kevin Donaldson: 47:19

you do. You did leave at one chapter in his book, and that's my connection with Pastor Tino Prater. Ha, yeah, so I actually have a connection with him. I meet him for the first time. And he tells me he played for Penn State 97 I said how he played for Penn State? 97 You know, guy named Pete Morris, Zach. I went to high school. He's a good friend of mine. He's like, Yeah, I know. P I know Pete real. Well, that's a call Pete up and I'm like, am standing here with with Tino Prater. You know, because, ya know, so I got them and I reconnected them. And then I see him occasionally because she lives real close to me now. But that's coincidence.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 47:51

I was gonna play Kevin guide you told me that so Tino Tino Prater, my son, Nathan, Nathan Lewis, and cause Enuma are now the three pastors in our Manhattan congregation. And you know, Adam, and Dottie in the New Jersey church. So you know, now two of our congregational leaders and they are doing an incredible job. It's called every nation, New York City, every nation nyc.org will connect you with any of our churches in the in the region. And we have a lot of things going on around the world overseas. A lot of different places. But the ones that the two that were I'm so fond of is what, what's happening here in New York City, because this came as a result of pain and suffering. Our church was here because of that I would not be here had it not been for 911.

Kevin Donaldson: 48:39

You have repurposed suffering, which is what we do what when we walk somebody through a journey, when they start telling their story, we we try to show them that you just don't have to sit in that valley. You can climb that mountain and get to the top again, just by taking what you've learned and repurpose the same way your father did the same way you did. The same way that people of New York City did after 911 we repurpose suffering, we came together and we created something so redemption creation can only come after redemption.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 49:08

So we say it's absolutely creation, fall restoration, and then full blown, reconciliation, or transformation. And so that that is the cycle that we all live through the creation the fall, then the redemption and then the Restoration of everything,

Kevin Donaldson: 49:27

everything gets restored. It looks like God sort of gave up in the middle of creating Mike

Pastor Ron Lewis: 49:30

you know, there's still hope for Mike though is still is breath in his lungs. Mike, there's still hope for Mike. Even

Mike Failace: 49:38

well, so I so don't don't don't cater to him, please. Because listen, we're running out of time and really he'll go on for an hour about me now He's just jealous about this.

Kevin Donaldson: 49:51

It's so funny. But I Pastor Adam calls me I don't go out and I'm not that type of person to say you gotta believe in God. You got to believe in God. You got to believe that It's just not me. My journey has led me to the church. I don't talk about it a whole lot on on the air. But Pastor Adam calls me a guerrilla minister. Alright, yeah. lies in guerrilla war, I guess. Yeah. Right. Because I'll go out there and I'll steal things from him constantly. I steal words from every, every sermon that he says, and I'll call him up. And I say, APA. You know, I just stole this from him, because I don't worry about I stole from CS Lewis and I stole it from this person, I stole it from this person. So we're trading this information to get it out to a broader audience. But the way that I show people my path is I said, Look, this this work for me, you know, this, this is, this is how I live my life. And it seems to be feeling really, really good. And I tell people when when they say you go to church every every week, and I'm not perfect, by any means. He'll tell you every day. I'm not perfect.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 50:51

I already warned me. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 50:54

But I say when I leave, I feel better. And that's the bottom line, right? You know, whether you believe or whether you don't believe whatever you do in life. After you leave that experience, did it make you feel better? Or did it make you feel worse, people can say that with drugs. George Carlin had this great interview once where he said, you know, the first time you do a drug, it's probably 90% joy or 90%. Happiness, I try not to use that word joy, I'll get to that in a minute. It's probably 90% happiness, and 10% pain, you know, coming down off it, whatever it may be. But as time moves on, you see that statistics start to change, where at the end when you're full blown, full blown addict, it's usually 90% pain, sometimes 100% pain, right and no joy. So every experience I walk out of now, if it doesn't end in joy, and it becomes more pain and joy, it's time to move on.

Mike Failace: 51:48

And what's the sense of doing it?

Kevin Donaldson: 51:49

Yeah, it's time to move on. You know, I love going to the gym. It's always been almost 100% joy to me. And the day that it doesn't become joy to me, I walk away, but those are the things that are unshakable. You know, that's, it's, I talk often about primary identity, that unshakeable thing, and we see this a lot as cops. So a lot of a lot of police officers, we see. They take that career in law enforcement, and they make it their primary identity. That's who they are. And then what happens, that career ends like ours ended. And now you're left out in the darkness going, what do I do now? Right? What do I do now?

Mike Failace: 52:26

All you have guys that are staying too long? Because that's their identity?

Kevin Donaldson: 52:29

Correct? Because that's all they are. And it's the wrong thing to do. Your primary identity needs to be something that's unshakable, unchangeable. And if you find that every you can still be everything underneath. But that's not your identity, because it's going to go away.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 52:44

Kevin, your shadow like a pastor, man.

Kevin Donaldson: 52:49

You don't want me teaching your congregation,

Pastor Ron Lewis: 52:51

the fall of Adam stuff.

Mike Failace: 52:53

That's all he's doing. Adam gave that sermon probably two weeks ago. So

Kevin Donaldson: 52:57

Adam gave that sermon. I'm gonna say more than that, probably six months ago. But yes, I did steal it from him. And how much time do we have left? It looks like we've got about 12 minutes. And we settled into miracles in Manhattan. So

Pastor Ron Lewis: 53:08

let me just mentioned this, that the worst time of my life, was watching my third son, Jordan, I have four sons, Nathan, Christian, Jordan, John Luke, great kids. Jordan was incredibly special born 1990 In North Carolina, on a cloudless day with a rainbow on it. He was born. And I thought this kid is incredibly special. And he was very quiet, very shy, but very strong in every way, physically, but mostly, emotionally, spiritually, very, very solid. And of all my kids, and he, he became the one who was walking that straight as an arrow line. And I don't know how you do that. It was a story wasn't my story. But he was solid. And he lived an incredible life. And when he was in college, he went on a mission trip to Tanzania, into a place that was very, very, very dangerous and risky for a lot of reasons. And they suffered so many different attacks and things like that, that they had to endure. They built the birthing clinic. And at the end of it, the team leader said, Alright, who wants to go in and share the Good News, the Gospel, who wants to go into the tribe there and share and he raised his hand and said, Send me so he went, and with one other kid, and all the sudden people began responding to the gospel. This is a tribe of 161,000 people, and they had never, there's no none of the three days, no body of Christ, no believer and no Bibles. And then all of a sudden, things begin to change. He comes back and he started telling me the news of everything that happened because they started a church and the birthing clinic they helped build and he started telling me the whole story and I was just blown away this quiet shy kid has all the sudden just doing this kind of stuff. I can't even believe I mean this Story was unbelievable. I mean, elephant stampedes killer Wasp tax of everything. Yeah, everything was going on that cars turning over somehow all those it was like 10 men and they just 10 young men and they all survived the great comes back. He's telling me stories up but he said, Yeah, I had two or three nosebleeds every day. So well, we should go check that out went check that out. Turn they thought it was some sort of a fungus or something like that. And they started looking deeper MRI they found, they found that there was a tumor, a cancerous tumor, the size of the tangerine and the back of his skull wrapped around both optic nerves. And they had to get them we had to get him out of school right away immediately put them in the UNC Cancer Center, where they began to for six straight months. He had 72 rounds of radiation, three surgeries, eight rounds of chemotherapy popped up six months later, as if hardly anything happened. But he didn't look the same. And he popped up, went back to school, graduated with honors on time, met the he was homecoming king, the girl who was his secret girlfriend was the homecoming queen they got married is this a Cinderella story. And then they they are they plan to get married. He gets a great job as an analyst. He's driving a great car. He's He's the He's the king of the king of the hill, and live in the big life. And then right before they were getting engaged, I took him at 8am one morning to pick up his engagement ring, a beautiful ring. And we pick it up and that day he goes into his final absolute final medical treatment. And he finds out that in his This was his last one after 18 months of battling this cancer. They said this is your final test. Why don't we just do a quick lung check? Because he finished all the surgeries and radiation with 2020 vision. Every medical doctor said that's absolutely 100% Insanely impossible, especially when it ran his optic nerve Exactly. They said you may go blind, you will lose partial eyes you will. And he comes out with 2020 vision. So we're thinking, God did a miracle. This is amazing. And God did do a miracle. But then the next 18 months, you know he starts to have some small symptoms this and that. So he goes into his final checkup and they found it in his lungs it did metastasize. They got married about two months later they got married. And then a few months after that he does 30 years old.

Kevin Donaldson: 57:20

Somebody somebody wants told me and this there's nothing I could say that that would ease the pain of a loss of a child because we're not supposed to outlive our children. It said, when we're born, we start our journey on how to learn how to live. Or when we're born, we're born trying to learn how to live when when we're here, we try to master that those that are taken early reach their goal. So it sounds like from what you're telling me about your son is he learned how to live like He got it.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 57:54

He did he got it. It was like he he lived the full life at the age of 30. It was complete in a sense. And now for us. It's it's the CS Lewis calls it he says he says when you lose a loved one, it's like an amputation. He says you always miss what you don't have. But you keep on you keep on going. You just keep you keep going. That had the test of faith. Oh, it shook me to the core. I mean, this the pain. And you know what's good about that is I'll never forget the pain I'll never forget sitting in Macau, Macau clusters, Delhi and Tulsa, Oklahoma watching all these happy people around me. And I just think I just found out my son has terminal cancer. I'm just sitting there just looking at this. And it was

Mike Failace: 58:43

I mean, I don't even grasp that

Pastor Ron Lewis: 58:45

it. Yeah, I mean, the the advantage I had is that my mind was fairly renewed. From what? Everyday I try to read the Bible and see what does God think? What does he feel what does he think what does he say? And that getting into me became an antiviral power, it became an antibody. And so it add a layer of me not my emotions, but my spirit was strong. And uh, stay close to God knowing that he did not cause this but he's going to use it. And like right at toward the end of his death now there's no human being that could ever replace Jordan. He's, he's, he's just an incredible kid. And everybody who knows him anyone who's listened to the suit remembered him know that he was just so kind. I don't think he ever one time his wife said he's never ever had a customer now, I'm sorry to for your viewers to know that he didn't learn that from me. He didn't learn it from you guys either.

Mike Failace: 59:49

I was gonna say he's never been on the suffering podcast. Oh, no, that's true.

Kevin Donaldson: 59:53

But was there looking back on it now? How many years ago did he pass?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 59:58

Well, it's it was and 20 2014, march 20 2014

Kevin Donaldson: 1:00:08

Having some distance from it, do you see and I again, I, when I'm looking at something as even as horrible as that I'm trying to look for the purpose. I'm really, really trying to look for the purpose. Do you think there's any purpose to extract from that?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:00:23

Well, there is. And that is a few things. I mean, the reality is Life is short for all of us. Let's not kid ourselves. You know, we're all everyone. Everybody has an expiration date. One of my dearest friends died today. It was a bummer. I was in Queens when I got the news, a dear friend, Dr. Steve green COVID Battle did make I got his call today. And his wife said, I want you to know that Steve right now is in heaven, and he's looking for Jordan. That's my son. He was Jordan's mentor. Really, this happened today.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:00:59

I look at that as the like, the death of my grandfather was 22 when I when I died. And I'm grateful I look back and here's my purpose. Here's the purpose and in the loss of the greatest man that I ever know, it's, I got to spend 22 years that there you go with this incredible guy who taught me everything about how to be a man. Some people don't get that opportunity. I better be grateful for those 22 years

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:01:24

well said, every a lot of people were always complaining looking for something else when we just have to accept what is God given us. And let's celebrate that so I can really truly celebrate his life. A couple of things happen. Number one, my wife Lynette who she helped me raise my four teenage sons, but she really evolved to have children she couldn't. And amazingly, she wrote in her journal one day said said I'm gonna have twin girls, the oldest would be named Victoria, the youngest Isabel, she flat out just wrote down something that would happen in the future. And it couldn't happen because Jordan was passing away. And all these other things happened before and, and our lives are just swept up with all the sort of the trauma and stuff like that. And right in the middle of that, should we get a phone call from a birth mother who said, I heard that you might be interested in twins. And I thought I was having a boy, but I'm actually having twin girls. And can I interview you? So she interviewed us and we didn't know what that meant? Whatever. But Lynette got our adoption papers, going and got them ready. And, and then we get this call from the girl again, she interviewed us and then and then nine days later, they were born on December 25. They were born outside of Bethlehem.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:02:37

Babies right? Outside of Bethlehem.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:02:39

Yeah. In a state. Oh my god. So yeah, so it became this like, sign of life of healing of and Jordan got to hold his twin sisters. That's pretty cool. weeks before he passed, held them. As his body was just falling apart. His wife went on, she was sad, but she ended up marrying one of Jordans best friends. And then there was a

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:07

we think Jordan feel about that.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:03:09

I think he would probably be happy because he's healed. He's well,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:13

wasn't the best man at the wedding. There in his wedding. Right? Because then that the the best man's got to step in, in case the

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:03:18

Yeah, it's sort of like that. It's in that goes back into Scripture. Actually, there's a technical name for the older, the next brother in the line should take over where that brother left thaw. It's, you know, it's a weird thing. I know. I know. It's like, it's too much to comprehend right now. But

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:35

so let's get into miracles of Manhattan, because I do really enjoy this book. Because it's short little chapters, it's easy to read. And it's kind of like reading the Bible. You're not supposed to read the Bible all at once. You got to read it in short little bursts page a day, whatever it may be. And you can't read this all in one shot. It's just it doesn't make sense to read all in one shot. You read one little story one little vignette. And then you reflect on it. Like, wow, well, this happened because of this. And because of this, this happened. How did this come about? Like what was the genesis of the idea for this book?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:04:09

Well, we saw so many miracles beginning in the lamps theater in midtown Manhattan, and then our other congregations in New Jersey and some other places in Manhattan and other Philadelphia, different places. We, we just started compiling stories that people had either written to us or videoed. And we've just began to get them put out in a written format. And we recognize that these are all people that claim to have had a miracle. I specifically compiled it where there'd be no preaching, and no teaching, just stories. These are stories. If you don't believe it, you have to go talk to the person who's written about it. This is their story. And we launched it on 911, the 20 year anniversary of 911 that we just we just had, you know, few months six months ago, and it became just an instant hit and people were just so happy to read these stories. Get out of the ashes. God has built a great church out of these ashes of 911, great things redemptive ly began to happen. And that's Jordan, my son, Jordan. That's his story all the way. There's a foundation called Jordan Lewis missions, Jordan Lewis missions plural.org.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:05:15

Where that in our show notes, Drew, we gotta get that in our show notes.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:05:18

Thanks, Anna. It's just a great foundation that was started by his peers that at his university or Roberts University, they started they launched it, people, whether you like him or not, but people like Joel Osteen and other people just said, we this young man has a story. Let's just bless bless the foundation because he, his brothers, and his wife and his friends were all standing around looking all these flowers being poured in, somebody said, stop the flowers, this ridiculous stop the flowers, sent something to Oral Roberts University missions, and after six months or whatever the the chief legal counsel and the CFO called me and said, We need to give you this foundation because your church needs to cover this, we can't do anything with this money. The State Department won't allow us to send money to these nations where where there's a lot of persecution and stuff, we can't even send our kids there, we can't send the money there. So we ended up they shifted that over. And from that point on where we have built 220, some water wells, or pump pumps or Wells, we have put fed hundreds of 1000s of people there have been a Bible translated into Tanzania. They were they had no Bible, they now have a Bible. They have the Gospel of Luke and about 20 other books in the Bible translated into their heart language. There's so many positive things, hospitals and properties. And now we just bought a building in Pakistan. Right there one of the most arid and difficult places in the world where they're persecuting and killing people. I mean, so many sad things that are happening in all the nation's including America. But this is targeting people that have no chance ever of hearing the gospel. A lot of people you know, wonder like, what do you do for those who have never heard? Well, you find a creative way to get the gospel into their hands. And so all this stuff came as a result of Jordans situation like was back to the book.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:07:08

Before you move on to the book, just something just occurred to me. I asked the question like, yeah, yes, I'm just going to start a church. You started a church out of the ashes of 911. All right, yeah. All these great things happened out of the ashes of Jordan, and now I get it. Now I understand it. That's that's an amazing thing that like, why would you start a church? Most people out there are some less than ethical people, they would start a church for nefarious reasons. for financial reasons.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:07:37

Show me the finance. I don't know what your

Kevin Donaldson: 1:07:40

Jimmy will talk about. Swagger,

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:07:43

right? Swagger, right? Yeah, of course. But we don't have water sides in our property. Right. By the way, where's our property? It makes

Kevin Donaldson: 1:07:51

sense. Now, this great foundation was built out of your son Jordans ashes. And he's able to rise again and build a community and help people and help people further the same way that every nation's has done it, build a church out of the ashes, build a community. I really applaud you for that. Where can we get miracles in Manhattan?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:08:11

Sure, you can go to miracles in manhattan.org. I believe it's in the in the back of the book here. Oh, you can go to Amazon, go to Amazon. You just make it easy. Amazon, Barnes and Noble.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:08:23

We'll also put another link to the show notes in that and is there anything else that you want to throw out there? Like, I know you're on Instagram because I we connect through Instagram?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:08:30

Yeah. It's been fun to to watch you, bro. You really have a lot going on. Now. I love it. Your story. Your story is incredible. Yeah, I encourage everyone to listen to your story. It's really amazing. Your journey,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:08:45

all of that. And yet as many times as episode nine. That's my story. That's my story. So every time I go out and talk about it, I'm in front of the camera. I'll tell you, I'll tell the story. And there's a point in it where I actually my redemption starts. But the worst time was when I gave my testimony in front of the congregation. It's 100 people it's not a big one in Jersey, right? The one in New Jersey. Wow, awesome. Yeah, I got called on the spot as you feel nervous. I think you know what, we've just gotten back from a 20 hour flight back from Florida because it was snowing up here. And I went I went out snowplows because I had customers. I had to go take care of I went out snow plowed and I got the church and I gave my testimony. Oh, I was definitely afraid.

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:09:30

Yeah. Who you know who hates to be pulled up at the last minute and without preparation is that Adam Burt hates that.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:09:36

I'll have to remember that. Yeah, just

Mike Failace: 1:09:38

call him on the spot.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:09:39

I want to call him after this is done and I said I invited you here to sit in but you know,

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:09:44

Adam goes to bed at eight o'clock with his milk and cookies actually it says milk and red wine mixed in I guess but

Mike Failace: 1:09:53

stuff that that those cookies and straight red wine.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:09:56

One of my dearest friends is Pastor Adam, and quickly, I really do enjoy the way you speak. And I follow what you say. And I think you're an amazing person. You're amazing orator, you got an amazing message all across the board. But we are coming to the end of this thing here. And you've gone through different suffering in your life from the suffering of building a church, which I can't imagine from losing your child, to divorce to the way the way you were raised in your relationship with your father. What do you think it's taught you?

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:10:31

I think it's taught me to endure, to overcome, to believe, to believe that God's not finished yet. Patience and perseverance. Yeah, it's. And without faith, and patience, we can't inherit what God has for us.

Mike Failace: 1:10:49

Well, that's the problem people run into, they want immediate results, they don't have the patience to look for the results. That's why people stay in those holes for that

Kevin Donaldson: 1:10:55

long. And this is, if you would have been here during my opening, you would have heard me say that very same thing, but I can't sit on on my openings anymore, because he all he does is try to make me laugh.

Mike Failace: 1:11:04

I don't try to he just screws up and I just sit there and it's like

Kevin Donaldson: 1:11:07

The Carol Burnett Show. You know, it's like The Carol Burnett Show. Tim Conway and Harvey Korman trying to make each other laugh. It's really bad. I say much, Pastor Ron, I do appreciate this. This has been a great, great episode. Absolutely. That I don't even know how we're going to timestamp this one, Drew, because there's just way too much to go through on this one. There's just all these little nuggets of information,

Pastor Ron Lewis: 1:11:30

tell you what I'll do. If you come and visit us when we go in our broadcast. Do you come in and see us? I'll come back. We'll just help each other along the journey. Well, that's

Kevin Donaldson: 1:11:40

what we do. Yeah. Okay. And that's what Mike and I do. That's, that's what we do. Now. We, you need us. Okay, we're there.

Mike Failace: 1:11:47

We tell people all the time. Once you're on our podcasts, you become part of our family. And we're there for everybody in our family. Where's my mug and my cigar to prove? Just kidding.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:11:59

Thank you very much for coming in. And that's going to do it for this episode of the suffering podcast, the suffering of a pastor and let's think about all the stuff that we learned today. Illiteracy equals ignorance. Forgiveness, turned suffering around. Suffering has a shelf life. Learn to forgive yourself, but most importantly, endure, overcome unbelief. And that's going to do it for this episode of the suffering podcast and suffering of a pastor. Follow Pastor Ron Lewis at Pastor Ron lead pastor on us follow Mike at Mike underscored flays follow me at real Kevin Johnson of course follow the suffering podcast and we will see you next time on the suffering podcast. Don't forget to hit that like and subscribe button and ring the bell