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We all have something inside of us that releases itself from time to time. People who have gone through struggles and trials refer to this demon as “The Beast”. The beast rears its head at the most inconvenient times and when you look at the beast in the eyes you can shake you to your core. On this episode Mike and I sit down and discuss possible solutions on how to defeat the beast. We don’t have all the answers but we do know what has worked for us.
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This is gonna hurt. It's time for the sufferings podcast. When the darkness inside of us bubbles up, and emerges in a surprise fashion, a universal struggle in every individual is the battle and war that we waged against ourselves. We fight to keep that demon subdued. We fight to keep the beast chain our victories or relished our defeats or lamented. When the darkness overtakes us, we traveled down a narrow path. With high walls, rarely seen as the right or the left, we are hyper focused on the threat in front of us with laser precision. We require the weapons and Arsenal to fight the war every day. We trained to become more resilient, and stay on the path. Our beast will never be defeated, but maybe tamed by never giving up. I'm Kevin Donaldson here with Mike Felice. And on this episode of the suffering podcast, we just join each other. Yeah. But we're going to, we're going to talk about a very serious subject. Today, we're going to talk about the suffering of the beast, and we're going to get in to exactly what the beast is those of you who've gone through any type of trauma in your life, you're going to know exactly what the beast is. And Mike, and I know it all too well. But as usual, we have to go through our social media question, because we're on the one to 5000. So this week's social media question comes from Raymond. And he writes, What has your individual suffering taught you about people? Because people change around you after you had some sort of problem? Well, you
Mike Failace:know, people change around you, and also people that are going through suffering. Now you have a different perspective on that. You know, I mean, before our incidents, and you heard of someone going through a traumatic incident, I always, you know, and you hear when they retire, you know, I always thought you're faking, you're faking it. And I know she went through that, on a personal level, absolutely. But not now you start to have more of a feel for. And you know, and as you know, through this podcast, we've reached out to people that have gone through, you know, whether it be shootings or traumatic incidents, and we talk to them and help them through
Kevin Donaldson:it. You think it's the same as when we when we were cops? Were you hung around cops more, because they just understood you. Now, May, we were hanging around some damage people, some
Mike Failace:of our best friends are the guys that we went to therapy with. Yeah, we're in tech started with them almost every day, guys from my department. I don't text anybody from the department anymore.
Kevin Donaldson:I don't talk to anybody from my
Mike Failace:department. I talked to a couple guys. You know, one of our guys just had a golf outing, and I went up there to show support for it. I can't golf anymore, but,
Kevin Donaldson:but you've seen people change around you how they're their actions towards you. It's kind of like being a recovering alcoholic.
Mike Failace:A lot of people dance around you, you know, they don't they don't want to set you off. Like, like you said, with a recovering alcoholic, you go over his house and drink beer in front of them.
Kevin Donaldson:Well, that's probably Cordell said that, you know, people people were very hesitant to drink around him after he went to rehab. And he's coming in here real soon. So, but that's gonna be a different episode. People were real hesitant to drink around him. And he's like, Well, by you doing that. Now you're making me feel uncomfortable?
Mike Failace:Did you feel that people avoided you? A lot of people did. A lot
Kevin Donaldson:of people did. But what did you know? I see both sides of it. Okay, so I see both sides of it. Because there are people who reached out to me, and that I didn't answer the phone. And then there's people who I thought would reach out that never called. But you know, and I got kind of mad at it, but being removed so far from it. What the hell are they gonna say?
Mike Failace:Exactly, you know, and a lot of people did come up to me months later and say, I didn't know what to say to you. Yeah. Because, you know, like you said before our instead we didn't know what to say to people either.
Kevin Donaldson:No, I mean, you have no perspective on it. I've never,
Mike Failace:I can honestly say in my career, I've never reached out to someone who went through that traumatic event incident to see other adult because I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what they were feeling. I didn't know until until we got a harder an education on it. So I didn't know what those feelings are about.
Kevin Donaldson:Some of those life lessons seem to slap you right across the face.
Mike Failace:And across the US and across the everywhere else on your body and
Kevin Donaldson:I will let go of something here. And I've never talked about this before
Mike Failace:because only me and you and nobody else are listening. There's nobody else listening.
Kevin Donaldson:We're only on the we're only on the verge of 5000 subscribers for YouTube but nobody's listening. I've never talked about this before, you know after my shooting my family, my my immediate family now my wife and kids. My immediate family changed. My brother, who was also a police officer, you figure he would understand a little bit more. It got back to me that he had mentioned something that I was full of shit. You wouldn't talk about hurt. Yeah, you want to talk about really, really hurt. And because of that, I don't think I haven't spoken to my brother. After I've heard that which is going on. He shoots going on eight years, nine years. Yeah, people change.
Mike Failace:You never really never had a feeling to like reach out to him and talk it out and know, let them see what you're going through. And
Kevin Donaldson:I can't I, you say something like that about your own brother. You know, that's saying
Mike Failace:something about you. I understand that. But there's the other side. Maybe he doesn't really know what you're going through. Like I said, that's why I never really approached people in the beginning. I've heard and I said before, I heard people that were involved in shootings, and they retired. I'm like, God, you're a cop cup. But it was I never really knew those feelings. I know
Kevin Donaldson:you had that similar thing with your brother, where your brother approached you some time afterwards and said I after after episode nine, exist the shameless plug for episode nine. He said, I had no idea.
Mike Failace:Because we don't tell them. You know, my father listened to Episode Nine. But never never knew what I went through.
Kevin Donaldson:But your brother and your your brother and your father weren't cops in this, that's, that's what hurts the most like your cop. You should fucking get it.
Mike Failace:But I'll tell you one thing, my brother and my father came over the next night. They were at my house the next night to see how it was done. But they didn't really grasp the beast that we were living under
Kevin Donaldson:the beast, the beast. So the beast lives within you and I and the Beast has reared its head. So what are we talking about? today? We're talking about the beast, the beast now. So the beast is that fireball of anger that starts in a pit of your stomach and gnaws at you. Now after our traumatic incidents, I don't know about you. I actually I do know this zero to 100. No buffer,
Mike Failace:zero to life sentence in 20 seconds.
Kevin Donaldson:Correct. It was just one minute you're calm. The next minute, you are throwing shit around. And you are an animal. You're raging. Right? So the beast is that ball of anger that comes from your stomach eats away at you and just rears its head where you turn it you go from Bruce Banner to the Incredible Hulk, you know,
Mike Failace:but you're not the Incredible Hulk help society. We were no good for society. At that
Kevin Donaldson:point. The Incredible Hulk had a good heart. Well, at this point, we didn't have a good heart because we but it's not that we wanted it. Exactly. It just just throw you throw it up there. Now to came.
Mike Failace:It's not something that you could say, you know, I can put this to the side once it once it pops up, it pops up.
Kevin Donaldson:And I've seen other people release that beast. And you're like, oh, geez, what the fuck is wrong with them? After my incident? I was like, Alright, I understand it. I understand it. You know, I used to watch my uncle, my uncle who was in who was prisoner World War Two, he would release your uncle Duke. My uncle Duke I talked about I love you and you would just he was the greatest guy in the world. He would laugh more than he would laugh. But piss him off. Oh my god. I've seen it before. I've seen and he was an old man. When I was a kid. I've seen him just pound on people. Like, to the point where I was gonna kill him. I got I got scared of slow kid, you know? But what was your What was your beast? Like? Before the incident? Did it ever? Did it ever show its head? Was it there?
Mike Failace:You know, in law enforcement. I think that everybody has some, some sort of beast within them. You know, because some of the shit we see on a daily basis. You can always control it.
Kevin Donaldson:You were you were a warrior in a garden? Yeah, because it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in war.
Mike Failace:And you're also a bull in a china shop.
Kevin Donaldson:But you were able to control the beast. You kept it. You kept it chained. And you released it when you needed to.
Mike Failace:You got to find your safe place. You know, to me a gym was a safe place. To me going out running was a safe place. To me getting in my car driving. Was this a place?
Kevin Donaldson:That was why that was what something that I wasn't very envious about with the way your your career was because you worked in the same town. I at least had a 10 or 15 minute drive home where I could decompress compression right? I could chain that beast before I got home.
Mike Failace:I walked to work. Yeah, I'd love to have a block for Mark. I would take the long route
Kevin Donaldson:if I if I was you. I don't think I would like and I know guys that worked in town and it was great because hey, listen, they got to go take a shit in their own toilet. You know, that's the that's the best thing for
Mike Failace:holiday dinners.
Kevin Donaldson:Right? Eat your eat your lunch at home. But that short commute, I needed that commute. I really needed that commute. But for me, the beast was there. The beast has always been there in one form or another. But I had a lot more control over it. There were times when the beast came out, but there was reasons why it came out. Then then our incidents happen you know, but before when the beast reared its head prior to your incident. How did you control it?
Mike Failace:Like I said, I kept a lot of it inside, you know, I isolate myself, you know, I go down in my basement and just put on TV and just get myself away from everybody because I knew that if someone poked and prodded me, the beast is going to come out even more. You know, I got a lot of Oh, you're in that mode again. You know which Hey, thanks. Thanks for understanding.
Kevin Donaldson:I think like you I was a gym guy. So the gym was my safe space that ride home like I said earlier, just going out and I used to be a lot more social than I am now. I'm somewhat antisocial now. I was at that party for for Mackay your girlfriend. And I stood in the back like I was I was trying to be
Mike Failace:social and you almost did the Irish goodbye to but I wanted to I wanted to I really because you feel the anxiety coming up and I would never hold that against you. It's like, you know, Kevin's leaving. I figured
Kevin Donaldson:I had to get out there. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. And before we go any further I forgot to mention Toyota of Hackensack. So Toyota of Hackensack has been very generous with us, they sort of help us pay for the show here. And we buy our cars from there because we trust them. So go to Toyota hackensack.com Let them find you a car and then after you buy your Toyota from Toyota,
Mike Failace:buy a car what a better way to break it into and to go get a meal
Kevin Donaldson:to go get a meal at the Grand saloon go to 940 van Houghton Avenue in Clifton. And Nick's gonna take real real good care of you there. I mean, he's got a fantastic menu and he's even got gluten free options. That's why I get along with them. So
Mike Failace:well. You got to mention the suffering podcast when you go there.
Kevin Donaldson:Yes mentioned the don'ts for both for Toyota of Hackensack and the Grand Slam make sure you make sure you let them know that we sent you there let them know that their their sponsorship is not going unnoticed.
Mike Failace:I know you talked to the people from Hackensack Toyota or Toyota of Hackensack and Nick and they have gotten a good response from us so far.
Kevin Donaldson:Two out of Hackensack is crushing it. They are crushing it. My father
Mike Failace:went and got a car.
Kevin Donaldson:And they took care of them. They took care of him and your father was bending my ear at that party about Toyota back and he's like, Yeah, you know, I went in there and, and they didn't that I told him they sent me and I said yeah, I had to make a phone call. And once I made a phone call it was okay.
Mike Failace:But you gotta realize my father's like, I'm with Mike is my son for the podcast because
Unknown:the Podcast, the podcast, the podcast.
Mike Failace:Podcast is a tiny it's from Jersey City.
Kevin Donaldson:So getting back to the beast, our incident happens. And now the whole game changes. Everything changes.
Mike Failace:You people treat you different all around. Oh, yeah. And yeah, like I said, they dance around you. Or they're overly I don't wanna say protective of it. But you know, they're right on top of you. Okay, you need anything. Really. I know they had good intentions. You really don't want to talk about
Kevin Donaldson:No, I woke up to about 50 phone calls, because it was a midnight shift. And yours was a midnight shift as well. I woke up to about 50 phone calls. And you know, I wasn't feeling any kind of way about it. And so I got back to as many as I could. So again, you know, you start just telling the same story over and over. It's like prayer fire. Episode Nine, clarify episode nine. And you get tired of it. It's just like you want to tape recording just hit play?
Mike Failace:You know? I mean, I'm sure it's the same thing. We I mean, we haven't even talked to the guy we haven't talked to now, of course, you gotta get an attorney right away. Yeah, we hadn't talked to attorneys yet. You know, we didn't even have a debriefing on it yet. You know, when people are calling, asking, Hey, what's going on? What happened? You don't even know if you're allowed to talk about it. You know, you're not allowed to say anything you don't want. You don't want to tell someone what went on? Because if it gets out, oh, you know, I don't get a guy that was in a shooting case had this happen. You know, and then you get the media coverage.
Kevin Donaldson:What is the first time the beast reared its head after your shooting?
Mike Failace:You know, to be honest with it, I believe cancer was the next day was the same day because my mind incident happened at 227 in the morning, so it was the same day. And like you said, you're getting all these texts, these phone calls, and I'm really not answering the phone calls. I had a friend of mine that he texted me didn't ask how I was doing or what happened. The only text was, I need a debriefing.
Kevin Donaldson:You need a debrief and
Mike Failace:he's another cop. He texts me and said, The only thing he said, I need a debriefing that I was fucking livid. I jumped up I'm like, hold up. Now. I never texted back. I never even approached him on it yet. Seen a bunch of times since and I never said a word to him. But I was livid. Like Huda fucker you too. As for debriefing I didn't even have a debriefing yet. You want me to tell you what happened?
Kevin Donaldson:I was pissed. Oh, yeah. Didn't want you to have a debriefing he needed Oh yeah, he
Mike Failace:needed a debriefing. Oh my god, he wanted to find out what went on. He wanted the inside scoop.
Kevin Donaldson:Not Hey, bro, how you doing?
Mike Failace:Yeah, exactly was the first words out of his, you know, not out of his mouth. But his first text I ever got from
Kevin Donaldson:my first time that the beast got released. I can remember, like it really came out. So my department you're supposed to have a critical incident debriefing within 48 hours, 72 hours. I think that's that's the limit. Because after 72 hours, that's when the danger of chronic post traumatic stress starts being a real reality for you. You're so you're supposed to have it in 72 hours, my department says backwards. My my incident happened on a Wednesday, they decided to have a debriefing on a Monday on the net following Monday. So they're beyond the point because they don't care.
Mike Failace:And God forbid to have to pay for someone to come in on the weekend. Right?
Kevin Donaldson:So they bring in COP the cop they cause the person at that time who was running cop cop live in town and I go in there. Now prior to this, they had taken our shotguns out of our cars because it's a danger and somebody left the shell in the shotgun and it was a whole thing I mean shooting a shotgun. So that's five years old. The dinosaurs
Mike Failace:in our in our department used to use them as ashtrays to shotgun will sit right up in the middle. Like they're actually back when they used to smoke in cars.
Kevin Donaldson:So it was like it was like buckshot, but it was ashes, right? So they took our shotguns away from our cars and I've been shooting a shotgun for so long, you know longer than some of the some of the officers were alive. I was that guy that always had a shotgun, I always check the shotgun. I always made sure I had everything in there. I was never, I was never complacent when it came to my weapons. So they take them out of our cars. This is about a year prior to the shooting. I go in for the debriefing that Monday morning and that Monday morning I was in the doctor's office getting glass removed from my arm. And I actually I've talked about this before where I broke down in front of the doctor, where she asked me if I was okay. And I wasn't. So from the doctors, I go to this debriefing. I'm sitting in there. It's first time I've been back in headquarters. And it was the last time I was back in headquarters. I get word that they're starting to put the shotguns back into cars. And I get this feeling of joy. I'm like, hey, that's great. Least some good is going to come out of this. Then I hear oh, they're only going in supervisors cars. I lost my shit. I start yelling. I start screaming like that,
Mike Failace:especially since he didn't say you have what your Lieutenant?
Kevin Donaldson:Right. So the lieutenant who ran away, he's going to get a shotgun in a car and a lot of a lot of good. It's going to be it's going to it's going to be done with he's on the phone trying to suck off administration. You know, I lost it. Guys from my department had to lift me I'm a small guy. You know, at the time, I was probably to 35 to 40 Somewhere around there. They lift me up that
Mike Failace:like you're 290 now so you're in shape.
Kevin Donaldson:Sort of. They have to lift me up and forcibly pull me downstairs. Because I was gonna get charged. I was gonna get charged I was gonna get charged for insubordination. I was gonna get fired. Because I started yelling and screaming that bed. And that was the first time the beast really reared its head.
Mike Failace:But prior to that it would have affected you. But not like it did that day
Kevin Donaldson:for something snapped. And yeah, it just, I can't explain it. Like
Mike Failace:the littlest things make you snap for no reason.
Kevin Donaldson:You know, when you see somebody walking down the street that you dislike, and you'd like man want to spit in his face. There's that little thing in your brain to tell you. It's not a good idea. That's not a good idea. That's gone. Oh, yeah, that's gonna have no filter anymore. So those chains that you use to control the beast that you used to have control over that were anchored in the ground. They just snap and you have no control over it. There's nothing that can cage there's nothing that you can bring bring you down. I I bet you the guys and there was a bunch of guys surrounding me protecting me from myself. And if they weren't, I probably would have lost my job that day.
Mike Failace:When I'm done, yeah. And I mean, I was I was fine around around guys from my department, my administration. You know,
Kevin Donaldson:you had a much more congenial relationship with your department than I had.
Mike Failace:I mean, you've said a lot of times you weren't very friendly with your administration very adversarial. My Chief Chief O'Connor the cap since back then pat Devlin and John Valenti, they're always in my corner. I mean, they were. They were right. I even even unedited the my incident, you know, we went to the hospital there'll be four that they took, they took our uniforms from us. We went we got in civilian clothes. When we went to the hospital, we came back. Pat Devlin who? I don't know if he was a lieutenant back then. But he was on the scene. And soon as I got back to our command post, he just looked at me and said, What do you need?
Kevin Donaldson:That's a great boss. Yeah, it's
Mike Failace:a great What do you need? You know, didn't ask me if I was okay. or anything like that. What do you need?
Kevin Donaldson:Because you're not okay. Yeah. In any anybody who's who's seen and even if he
Mike Failace:asked you if you're okay, you're gonna say yes, of course. Fine.
Kevin Donaldson:How are you? Fine. I'm okay. I'm okay. And honestly, after my shooting, I thought I was okay. Until that day. And then things started, things started my life just started to unravel. But the beast has reared its head in so many different fashions one of the one of the ways and this just gives you a window into how bad it got in my household, my poor wife, you know, and thankfully she's she's still with me. I don't know why. I don't know how.
Mike Failace:I don't know why. You got kicked your covers, but go ahead. right by
Kevin Donaldson:my right by my kitchen, there was a cupboard that we we used to keep cereal and pasta and stuff like that was like a food pantry type of thing. I went in there for something and something was out of place. And I lived in a bi level. So there stared right by it. Everything in that closet. And I mean, everything in that closet, including the shelving, went down the stairs and ripped it right out. I didn't go pick it up. I didn't do anything else. I mean, think about this. Your husband's in a shooting. He's exhibiting this behavior. And this is not the first time he's exhibiting this behavior. And he just takes for not for something being out of place. That's how bad it is. You know that we when you get aggravated at something when you get so aggravated at home, and you just you and you do one of those you every everybody out there knows that one. That was that. That's the normal reaction.
Mike Failace:It doesn't stop at Norris,
Kevin Donaldson:it's down the stairs, cereal, pasta, Jabez baby food formula everywhere, on the ground everywhere. And I just walk out of the house like a jerk. And how does the spouse deal with that?
Mike Failace:Let's make diggity either be understanding or going the opposite direction? They could I mean, yeah, I know people who went the opposite direction and did nothing but poke and prod and make the matter fucking worse.
Kevin Donaldson:Yeah. But what's the right reaction? to something like that? How if your spouse was going through something similar in you, I guess it's different male female, I hate this. It's different. I'm sure. If you were put into your spouse's position, and you, you were witnesses, what? What we there's nothing that's gonna stop you, but what reaction you think would be appropriate?
Mike Failace:And I often thought about that. I don't think they're there. I mean, do you give a sympathetic ear? You know, what do you say to them? Hey, you want to talk about something? You know? Because you don't? You know, there's not much you could just say, let them be.
Kevin Donaldson:You don't want to encourage bad behavior. And that's bad behavior.
Mike Failace:It's it's not but is it? It's not encouraging. But is it accepting the bad behavior? Because they know what you went through? Right? I don't want to say it goes with the territory. But really, it goes with the territory.
Kevin Donaldson:This is going to sound really and I hate this use this word because sorry, Mark. Sorry, Nick is going to sound really gay. Okay. For me, I think the best reaction that my spouse could have given at the time was just to come over and some comfort
Mike Failace:a hug. So that again, like I said, he just
Kevin Donaldson:let's not talk. Yeah, let's not talk let's sympathetic shoulder. Yeah, shoulder to cry on, and let you really break down because bottom line is when you're when you're in that place, you feel out of control. You feel unsafe, alone, alone. I mean, you are out in the middle of the desert with no food, no water and nothing else in sight. You don't know what the hell you're gonna do. You just want to dig a hole and bury yourself. So is spouses out there? It's a tough situation because I just think the right way to react is make them feel safe. Make them feel loved, make them feel that they're not alone. You may be sick, you may not be successful every time
Mike Failace:by them getting mad. I just want to make you matter. Oh, it just escalates the situation. Go like you said You know, and thank you drew, you've been emasculated at that point. Oh, yeah. Like I said, I had my uniform taken from me in the, in the, in our command post, my gun taken from me,
Kevin Donaldson:your second penis,
Mike Failace:your, your, your penile extension. Now you don't know if you have your job anymore. You know, everything's up in the air,
Kevin Donaldson:everything changes, everything changes and change and change is very scary. Oh, yeah.
Mike Failace:Yeah. Especially, you know, when you're in a career that you love doing. Now, you don't know if that career is gonna be there anymore. Right? You don't know if you're going to be effectively able, if you even if you do keep your career, are you going to be effective in your career? Is it going to change you forever?
Kevin Donaldson:both legally and in your performance? Yeah. In the case of you, I mean, it was different with me. But in the case of your shooting, there was legal issues. Yeah, there was there was ability issues, there was mental faculty a bit issues. So there's, there was a myriad of different things.
Mike Failace:You know, like we said, going back to a debriefing, you know what my debriefing was, we talked about it in the command post a little bit that night. That day, like I said, mine happened at 227 in the morning, so the rest of that day, we really didn't do anything the following day. Mine was September 16, at 227 in the morning. So the 16th had nothing to do all day, the 17th we went met with our attorney, the 18th, we had to go to state police total and give are statements. The 18th was the day that my department scheduled cop to cop to come in. I go up, I give my statement. I come back to my department, guys from cop to cop or walking out or I missed the whole cop the cop issue. And you know, I saw them in the parking lot. They gave me their cards, and they said if you need anything called nose down, and we went up to my chief's office and sat down and talked to him, you know, and like I said, it was like, I can't get on my department. Because mine was the first fatal police shooting in department history. So they really didn't know what to do. They had to learn from that
Kevin Donaldson:mind. There was ours wasn't fatal. He was shot, but he wasn't it wasn't killed. We did have a fatal prior to and again, we worked. We worked in small suburban departments. It's it's not like the movies where people are getting shot and killed all the time. It doesn't work like that. But there are critical incidents. You know, what was the worst? You think that the beast came out of you? What was the worst time? If you had to recollect one of them?
Mike Failace:Well, there are times and listen to the beast get always rear its head, rear its ugly head. It probably wasn't like right then. But like a few years later, when my son got into my face in my house about something. And I snapped, I told him Get the fuck out of my face. I said, I'll knock your teeth down your throat said nobody gets in my face. My house was my own son. Now it hurts me to this day. No, I didn't. I didn't want to do it. I didn't mean to do it. But you know, like you said before we went from earth to rage?
Kevin Donaldson:Did it ever happen with your wife? Your ex wife?
Mike Failace:I never. I mean, the arguments were a lot worse after that.
Kevin Donaldson:What I'm saying is that that incident with your son, was there ever any anything similar with your ex wife?
Mike Failace:Oh, we've had a lot of, you know, screaming and yelling matches after that, which we really I mean, we did have arguments before, don't get me wrong, but the arguments just got worse and worse. It I never really I would never lift the hand to any of them. But I you know, there are times where I just stormed out of the house and just went out and got myself a hotel room. The front I just had to get out of there.
Kevin Donaldson:The reason I'm bringing that up is because my wife and I have had similar arguments because my worst is very similar to you. Because I my my son was three years old. We had had similar arguments where things got really super heated. But those aren't the ones that affected me the most. That's not the worst of the beast when it should be on par. But for some reason it's not. I guess maybe because they're adults and or it's your it's your son or your daughter or whoever it is. And you're always worried about affecting them down the line. But I think it's a big mistake on our part to not seeing the damage that we did to our spouses.
Mike Failace:Like you said, it's not the main reason that I got divorced, but it's definitely a reason because I wasn't the same person anymore. Now
Kevin Donaldson:you're different. You're different. And, you know, it wasn't bad luck that you were there by the way. Yeah, it wasn't bad luck you were there. You needed to be there, for whatever reason, whatever purpose and only you can tell
Mike Failace:whether you believe in God and say, God put you there, or you were there for a reason.
Kevin Donaldson:You were in the right place at the right time. I say that about myself. My worst I mean, I, I punched holes in walls. I broke about every bedroom door with a fist, I threw chairs across the kitchen. That one was bad that I picked the chair up, we had barstool like not bars, but bar high chairs, and I picked it up my throat right across, broke the chair and a million pieces. I've broken lamps. I've thrown remotes at my wife, I've split it my wife a quarter, every name and a book. And it's, this is gonna sound really horrible. But they they were bad. They were bad. And they affected me but never is bad. And I've told this one before, my son shortly after the shooting, pointed a toy gun at me. And I lost it. I grabbed the gun, you know that maneuver where somebody's pointing out and you flip it around. I did that to him? Like training, training kicks, right? And instinct, snapped it into throw it in the garbage and went lived in the woods for three days. That's because I recognized if I don't get out of here, the beast is going to continue to grow.
Mike Failace:That's all I say, Well, I I wouldn't go live in the woods. That's why I went stay in a hotel overnight.
Kevin Donaldson:I'm too cheap to go stay in a hotel. That's, that's the bottom line. I'm just way too cheap.
Mike Failace:Put on a family credit card. Yeah.
Kevin Donaldson:But the beast comes out into all different ways and all different fashions. You know, and it doesn't even have to be police involved incident. Like if I could theorize if a woman goes through a traumatic incident, like a rape or something. Well, the next guy that gets that she gets close to or her husband. He's in for he's in for it. I mean, she's gonna get triggered like that, and it's going to be done. That
Mike Failace:there's, like I said, God forbid a woman ever gets raped, she has that, that trauma from that. And now she's with her partner. And one thing leads to another and they start having consensual sex could be a trigger in there, that sets her it could happen to a guy too. You know, I'm just saying a woman could get that trigger also, and take it out on her partner
Kevin Donaldson:and perpetuate the violence that she incurred?
Mike Failace:No. Yeah. I mean, even someone who gets robbed, like, you know, you get held up at gunpoint on the street or something like that. No, that person is gonna go they're gonna have issues also.
Kevin Donaldson:And the next time they see somebody that even remotely remotely looks like their stuffs good. You know, they're grabbing onto their wallet. They're making sure everything's there, they're shying away from everything
Mike Failace:even run into the other side of the street.
Kevin Donaldson:Unfortunately, it's wrongly viewed as a lot of the time it's wrongly viewed as as racist or discriminatory against certain when not really, not really, maybe they have some sort of past trauma. Yeah, but that's the bottom line is, we all don't know what is going to trigger that piece. What's going to bring that beast out because we don't know each other.
Mike Failace:And it can be nothing. Yeah, it can be nothing that triggers it. It's just you feel that mood start coming on, and you just got to get through that mood and get to the other side.
Kevin Donaldson:You know, at those worst times that you talked about, especially going back to that incident with your son. You said you went out and went you got a hotel room? Yeah, I believe I did that night. Alright, so that it calmed How long did it take to calm down and we cage that beast? Probably about
Mike Failace:a 12 pack.
Kevin Donaldson:If you pull on a pin, so 1212 back and
Mike Failace:that's not the right answer either. No, because that's just just nominate, you know, you're prolonging the agony. You're done and pain. And the next thing you're gonna wake up the next morning with the same pain and a hangover.
Kevin Donaldson:You know, you got double shit. Yeah. Which makes
Mike Failace:it even worse. Now, you gotta go home with your tail between your legs have hung over.
Kevin Donaldson:Did you ever get to the point where you think the beast isn't gonna go away?
Mike Failace:Later been plenty of times. A lot of times it was at night. This is my normal when you lay down. Yeah, I used to call the new normal. You know, this is my new normal. You know, when you lay down at night, and your head starts spinning, and you'd start thinking about things. That's why he said and I've said it here before, I mean, at no time was I ever suicidal. I never wanted to kill myself, but I went to bed almost every night for a while. Not hoping I died. But saying if I don't wake up tomorrow more probably wouldn't be such a bad thing.
Kevin Donaldson:So it's one of the reasons and I hate to keep bringing it up. But it's one of the reasons I am a fan of, of the Incredible Hulk. Genre, especially now after my my incident. So there's been with the
Mike Failace:Incredible Hulk reminds you of me. That's why you're, I understand
Kevin Donaldson:the incredible and completely incredible doofus. Nobody. So Bruce Banner, actually,
Mike Failace:Dr. Banner Isn't Dr. Banner, but Dr. Banner,
Kevin Donaldson:tries to kill himself on several different occasions. Because he feels that he can never control the beast, even no matter what he does. And he goes through deep breathing, if you watch any of the movies, there's all different types of theories, deep breathing, you know, therapy, or whatever mechanism of coping that he has. He tries and tries and tries and he fails every time until he realizes what his trigger is what makes him makes his blood pressure start to rise. And then sort of brings it down a little bit, sort of, sort of brings it down. But he's tried to take his life several times, because he thinks it's never gone away. And that was me.
Mike Failace:You know, and then Ananda, that is like a perfect, I guess you could call it analogy of going through this, this beast is what will refer to as post traumatic stress beast. When Dr. Banner turns into the Hulk, that's that, that rage coming out inside of us. You know, his came out different because it was a Hollywood thing, but it's just the rage that was coming out. And so it's a
Kevin Donaldson:perfect metaphor for what he went through. Yeah, what I do is absolutely perfect metaphor. Because there are times in our lives, maybe not recent, but there are times in our lives where it was okay to release the beast where it was good to release the beast. You know, you you on the football field. How many times you heard that when I released the beast released the beast, you want it to be you want it to release on a football field, right? And that's what I teach my kids now I said you you got problems or something, you have the perfect outlet to get it out. Something's going wrong in your life. Something's something's happened in school girl doesn't like you, your friends or they're being jerks. Release it on the football field. And guess what? You will feel better after you release it. Releasing the BS for us now though it came a long time coming. You know, where we're not so much releasing the beasts. We're just letting him go.
Mike Failace:Yeah, we're letting them go. Or we're controlling?
Kevin Donaldson:How do you think we? I know how I did it. But how did you learn to come? Control?
Mike Failace:Like I said, my my big thing was, was finding that safe, safe place where, you know, my, my safe spot was was either going to the gym, or going out running?
Kevin Donaldson:What about therapy? See therapy did a lot for me.
Mike Failace:It all depends on which therapists you go to. There we go. Not
Kevin Donaldson:every therapist is suited. And that's a very important point. Just because they have a therapist,
Mike Failace:sheepskin on the wall that says I'm a doctor,
Kevin Donaldson:or I'm a therapist, whatever. Doesn't mean that they are well suited for your particular trauma.
Mike Failace:Yeah, exactly. I mean, we both went to one who had no idea about anything and law enforcement. had no clue.
Kevin Donaldson:I went to I went to one that everybody said was a bad therapist, calm sent me to her. It was it was a female. But I had already been retired by the time they sent me to her. So the pressure was off for her. And she was a completely different type of person from what other people have described for me. So are they bad doctors? Or are they just beholden to a system that doesn't give a shit about you? I don't know. This one doctor that we're talking about. Edie doesn't even deserve to. He doesn't even deserve to have practice. He should be slicked back and groceries.
Mike Failace:See, that's the thing. When you're involved in a critical incident in law enforcement. They put you on workers comp. Now you have to go to the workers comp doctors who want to try to get you back to work when they work for the town. And they're trying to get you back to work as soon as possible. Whether you're ready to or not. You're like a notch in your belt, and they get you back to work. And you got another one that go back.
Kevin Donaldson:And if they don't pay me, pay me
Mike Failace:you're getting paid anyway. Yeah. You know, they'll listen if the guy is he'll, I mean, this one guy, he kept bringing me back for session after session after session because he was getting paid.
Kevin Donaldson:That same guy dropped me when I went to rehab. That same guy. I called him on my way down to rehab. I checked myself in say, Hey, I'm not gonna make it. I got to check myself into rehab. I got a real problem. They didn't love it. Let us have our cell phones in rehab. A day later I go and check my voicemail, nothing. I checked myself out of rehab because it scared the shit out of me and I checked my nothing. Two days later, I get a message from him and says, Yeah, I can't see anymore. Because you're not listening to what I say. Listen to what you say. I'm drinking a fifth and a half of tequila every day. And you're doing nothing. Are you? Are you serious? Like what? What the fuck did you do for me besides rile me up?
Mike Failace:I was gonna say that, that probably added to the beast by going to someone that is supposed to help you and they're not helping you. They're making it worse. That's when like when you get that feeling that you're never going to get out of that hole.
Kevin Donaldson:You're like, Fuck it, doctor.
Mike Failace:Yeah, I'm going to a doctor that supposed to help me and I'm getting nothing.
Kevin Donaldson:Then we meet our group. Doctor Steffes, dented misfits, misfits? Yeah. The most fucked up conversations I've ever had in my life happened in that room in Verona, New Jersey. But, boy, it's the first time I felt normal.
Mike Failace:Because we were around people that were as fucked up as we were. So it gave us some sense of normalcy.
Kevin Donaldson:I remember guys showing up. And I think it was before you got there. Guys showing up and one guy is I'll just say his first name. His name was Andy. He shows up one day and he's got this look on his face. It's like, like, he didn't know what to say. There was so much shit going wrong in his life. He's just like, I don't know what to do. I don't know. By the time he left, he was back to normal. He was back. That's power group. Well,
Mike Failace:I wouldn't say normal. He was back to some sort of normal state functional. He was good. We weren't we weren't functional to begin. No, no. And that was a scary thing to me too, because people are like, oh, you know, I had one friend of mine who he was involved in a similar situation. He's like, you gotta get back on the horse and start riding again. It's kept the shit out of me. So I'm like, I'm not ready to you know what happens if same situation presents itself? What do I do? If I hesitate and I get killed? Fuck it. I ain't here to worry about it. If I hesitate and someone else gets killed. I'm not ringing the doorbell saying I fucked up and daddy's dead. Neil scared the shit out of me. And just so happened. Six months later, if I was back to work. Six months later, we had to second shooting and Linares history. And it was gonna be my squad that was working. I could have been involved in six, two shootings in six months.
Kevin Donaldson:Do you ever have nightmares about going back? Oh, yeah, I still do. I do too. I still don't over my retire. I'm going back to work for the first like the first day. You know that trepidation you have gone to any job for the first day. That's the nightmares. I get back now.
Mike Failace:I had nightmares where I was involved in another shooting again. And it wasn't really a clean shooting.
Kevin Donaldson:Did you ever have dreams about the beast?
Mike Failace:No, not really. You know, it's just like I said, my nightmares really just consisted of not being able to do something. You know, like you said, we talked about, you know how many times you have a dream that you were in a shooting and in the bullet just fell out at a gun. You know, like you see on the cartoons all the time or the bang flag comes out. You know, and that's that's when you wake up in a cold sweat. I sheets. I've never washed my sheets that many times in my life.
Kevin Donaldson:You've never washed your sheets. Don't have to wash them. But I had a dream like that. I had a dream like that where I started feeling that rage. And I just started getting angry. And there was people holding me back. And it's very, like if I'm looking at it now it's very metaphorical. People were holding me back and you know, the veins are popping out of your neck. You're just screaming, let me go You son of a bitch. And they're holding and I can't you know that feeling like you can't move because they're holding you back. And all you want to do is just go and explode. But those people what I realize now is those people holding me back are the ones that saved me. saved me from killing somebody.
Mike Failace:I had a dream just the other night that my arms were. I don't I don't remember all my dreams. But I remember my arms are stuck and I couldn't get out.
Kevin Donaldson:Just fixing you with your arms.
Mike Failace:I forget what they were stuck in. But it was like I couldn't get them out. And I kept fighting and I'm like shaking I'm trying to fight. And I woke up in the middle of the dream running through the sheets. My mother finally got free through the blankets up in the air and everything. Woke up and like I said I'm talking within the last two weeks. My shooting happened in 2014
Kevin Donaldson:You think the you think the beast is ever going to leave us?
Mike Failace:Not totally. I don't think I've ever Well, you know as much as you try. It's always in the back of your head.
Kevin Donaldson:Well, it's like taming. It's like taming a wild animal making a pet. That's the way I look at it. Like I work very hard at taming that beast. To never, you always have the instinct of releasing it when necessary, getting back to what it was somewhat before. You know better though, you have the way of taming that wild animal inside of you, where you call upon it when necessary, but you keep it under control at all times.
Mike Failace:You keep it under control. But like I said, it may never go away.
Kevin Donaldson:When did it start to?
Mike Failace:I was gonna say, I got a question for you first. How do you feel the first week of August every month? Every year?
Kevin Donaldson:The first week of August?
Mike Failace:Or was it July? It was July July 1 week in July my bad I'm sorry.
Kevin Donaldson:I just want to point out today's the day I was dying, I just want to throw that out there. I know it's a non sequitur wouldn't you know it's gonna undo what we're talking about. But the greatest musician in the world today.
Mike Failace:Frank Sinatra song My Way better. Come on, Joe, jump in on this.
Kevin Donaldson:Suffering. That's another beat. Don't make the beasts come out. Don't make me angry about you will like me, we're gonna rile
Mike Failace:him up. We had this whole conversation a couple of weeks ago, the first week of July. Yeah. That's why I said it may never go away.
Kevin Donaldson:You've been witness to this now for a couple years. So you know how I get into lie. I will not I will. Withdraw. Shut down. I don't I I'm always afraid that that beast is going to rear its head always. And at home or does it you know, I'm a nightmare during the first week of July, I'm leading up to it, I have so much anxiety and little thing sets me off. Over time, I will tell you that it has gotten better. The first year was really bad. It was really really bad. Second year was bad. And it's been getting progressively better every year. But that first week of July, Jesus Christ, it's I'm partially back to the way I was after the shooting just an animal, just a nightmare to deal with. Nobody really knows people who in my circle know who know me. They don't know how to associate with me, nor do I know, nor do I want to associate with them. I think we did a show Mike this year. It was on a Sunday was my anniversary. And we did a show that Wednesday. And I came in here and I put on a smile. And I did the show. I forget who we who we recorded that week. And I actually I do know it was Pastor Ron Lewis. And if it was somebody say like, like Clark, Frederick's came in here. I don't think I would have handled it the same way. You know, Pastor Ron is so subdued and calming, mellow calming his voice. He's got that, you know, he's got that Southern drawl. I don't think that's a good point. That's a really, really good point. So like when September 16 rolls around, it's 16 to 14, September 16, September 16. So when September 16 rolls around, I have to make sure that we have a guest in here that is conducive. Actually, we got a good one coming in for you. That's the week before. That's going to be the most calming voice I've ever heard in my life.
Mike Failace:We got to get like a clown in this ring of a clown.
Kevin Donaldson:We're still trying to put that one idea together. That's the best that's ever had. If we get this together, folks, it's it's gonna go viral. That one will go viral. But anyway, that first week that first week is really bad is really really bad. I would love to just go away that week. But I don't think that's the right answer. Because I'm running away from the prairie fire.
Mike Failace:You haven't see. Fire. But September and see that's the other thing. I mean, I know you said you've never gone back to your incident location.
Kevin Donaldson:I drove past it once.
Mike Failace:On your mind, man. Winters is a small town. I drive past it all the time. You know, so there's always that. That feeling when you're coming up on it?
Kevin Donaldson:Did you ever drive past it not realize you drove past it?
Mike Failace:Yeah, never been times. And well, actually, one time that really got me was there was a I was coming home one night. And as I'm driving up onto location, his motor vehicle stopped right in the same spot. I slowed down I just stared at it. I drove about two blocks and pulled over I couldn't I had a hard time catching my breath. While and that was a year ago. Really. So we're talking how 2014 to now and you're still feeling it. That's why I said I don't think the beast will ever be fully gone. It's how it's how you internalize it. It's how you take that and in compartmentalize eternalized internalize and just keep moving on.
Kevin Donaldson:I I have heard through the grapevine who people who have spoken to the victim who was held at gunpoint during my shooting, that she was overly grateful. And she wanted, she actually wanted to reach out and say thank you. You know, I turned it down. Really, it was too, too fresh when it happened. But then I think about the guy who, who was holding the gun to this woman, his beast got his beast
Mike Failace:got the got the best, and
Kevin Donaldson:I look at it now.
Mike Failace:He really unleashed the beast that night. He did.
Kevin Donaldson:I look at it now. And I, this is gonna sound so strange. But I understand it. I understand that the lack of control that you have when you're so emotionally involved in something, whether it's a woman, whether it's an incident, whether it's your children, whatever it is, when emotions get involved. There's no telling what could happen
Mike Failace:if you think about it to think about her beast now.
Kevin Donaldson:Yeah, she's got a big one.
Mike Failace:Do you think about her beast? You know, we think we have a bed near she was held at gunpoint. She's probably got some. Like we say she's got a lot of shit. So
Kevin Donaldson:you know, I don't even know her name. Really? I don't even know her name. I could I could look it up. I don't know. Because I'd love to talk to her. I really would love to talk to her. And in here always on air, always on air now. But I would love to talk to her. And I'd love to hear her her synopsis of events how I don't even know exactly. Did he ring the doorbell? Like there's so much about my shooting that I'm just realizing now that I don't know about Yeah. Did he ring the doorbell and say hi was a phone calls was their emails. I know there was a restraining order that was that was trying to get put through and the guy lived in Florida. And I say the guy's name. The guy's name was Anthony VOCA Toro. I don't know. And I'd like to talk to him as well.
Mike Failace:We almost did it. We
Kevin Donaldson:try it. We he, I would love to. I'd love to be able to talk to him down
Mike Failace:in Florida. We almost had him on the one time.
Kevin Donaldson:Yeah, I want to I would like to hear. I think it would be healing for both of us. And I think that might come my beast a little bit.
Mike Failace:Let's think about him. Yeah, he's got a beast now too.
Kevin Donaldson:He's got a big beast. He's got a big beast. So. And the question is, is what what? How often do you think the beast comes out? Now? If before, let's say you were out of a month, you were 20 days a beast
Mike Failace:in the beginning and you just come out hourly. Yeah. I mean, especially especially leading up, you know, like I said, I mean, mine took 53 weeks to the day to get the grand jury and murder indictment hanging over my head. 53 weeks for doing my job. So that beast reared its ugly head, let's say hourly. Then you finally get cleared by the grand jury. Now you're dealing with retirement, going before the pension and there's a whole different piece and some of the things that went on through I actually flipped out on my pension caseworker. Lost my shit screaming at her over the phone. They flipped. But now, you know. Like I said,
Kevin Donaldson:I thought my retirement was going to release the beast. We have not released these but calm the beast
Mike Failace:and Utah. You gave me a little forewarning. You said it's not like it's gonna be over. It's just gonna be like, well,
Kevin Donaldson:it's anticlimactic. It's just like, they tell me hey, you got your pension? Oh, okay. Okay, thanks. Now call my wife, hey, I got my pension. Are you aren't you happy?
Mike Failace:Because I would tend to Chapter your life gun. You just you just close the book before you get to finish reading it.
Kevin Donaldson:But we've learned so many different tools to our group therapy you know, the right therapist leading the group who was just as fucked up as the rest of us by the way. He he's he's guiding this
Mike Failace:times we just like make him shake his head and those groups are so great. It's
Kevin Donaldson:so great to bring up the most inappropriate things but that he knew he knew that's what we had to get out. We had to talk about normal life in order to get back to normal and not be judged by the people sitting next to us because I think the worst thing one of the worst things for me is I felt judged by every person I ran into even if they didn't know what was going on.
Mike Failace:For some reason in in law enforcement when you when you're involved in a critical incident like that it oh, I don't want to and I don't mean to sound like an asshole but it almost gives you like status.
Kevin Donaldson:Yeah, yeah, how many body there was uh, there was a guy in Maplewood who I knew he was smart the two shootings and they used to call him body cow. Yeah. I was like, what? Now? I'm thinking about I'm like, What the fuck?
Mike Failace:When I was younger in my career, there was a guy and two guys in Hackensack. They were involved in like three or four shootings. And everybody looked at them like,
Unknown:wow, with reverence. That's those guys. Yeah,
Mike Failace:I mean, you know, so you get that the legacy, like you said, reverence or status. And that that bothers me that I don't I just want to be the regular guy that, you know, really, I guess this I wish this never happened. I just want to be the regular guy that did his 2530 years and got out
Kevin Donaldson:these days, how do you contain the beast
Mike Failace:still go to the gym as much as I can. You know, if I feel it coming up, I'll again isolate, you know, try to stay away from people because I don't want to piss them off people off in the last eight years. I don't want to keep this more people off. So I pretty much get myself out of any uncomfortable situation. I feel pretty like I said a lot. A lot of these a lot of a lot of abuse is brought on by an uncomfortable situation.
Kevin Donaldson:See, I revel in the uncomfortableness and I'm always doing different things and trying new things and starting new things and learning new things. I think part of me maybe it's maybe it's a problem because at my most uncomfortable, I felt lost. So it may be it's a little normal to me now. But I let and I failed it a lot of different things. But I like trying different things. This this show this podcast. I mean, hey, that's fucking insane. Today, I'm gonna start a podcast. I'm gonna you know, I'm sure there's other people starting very similar podcast. So that was a deck, by the way. That was stick.
Mike Failace:It took me a second.
Kevin Donaldson:Yeah, it was a it was a it was an underhanded dig. But you know those things? It's a purpose thing. You know, you're in your shooting, you got no purpose.
Mike Failace:Yeah. And that's, you know, it's keeping yourself busy now.
Kevin Donaldson:So his his purpose, the way to change the beast, it could be
Mike Failace:give yourself something, don't you know, everybody's like, Oh, why don't you just retire because I can't I don't want to sit around if I have all day to do nothing. An idle mind is the devil's playground. I'm going to want to be there releasing the beast, or just going through that? You know, getting in that irritable mood.
Kevin Donaldson:Well think about all that time you spent where you couldn't work. I was 12 months. I was. I was fortunate. I was fortunate. But in that 12 months, I'm going to teach you that I'm going to talk to you about the things that I did to just give keep my mind occupied. I taught myself how to make moonshine, which probably not a good idea. I made swords. Again, probably not a good idea. Probably not a good idea. I taught myself how to plate braid. I made two Did you ever see the bullwhip that I made? Yeah. Alright, so plate Braiding is only good for bullwhip making. It's what gauchos do. I get to nine football whips made out of paracord. Which one of them was very funny because then I Dr. Steph will tell the story. That when you when you do it, you make a hardcore handle like a us like a big bolt or something. And I had a clamp to the desk in my office. And as you got to braid everything, it's sitting there and I would leave it's not a one day thing, and I would leave it well, my wife sees it. And she takes a picture of it and she sends it to talk to staff started with some sort of weird suicide device. Like I'm making the Dr. Kevorkian thing and, and Dr. Stuff. He were sitting in therapy and he goes, What the hell are you doing?
Mike Failace:Did you get that duck?
Kevin Donaldson:I'm making a bullwhip. Doesn't everybody do that? You know one of the things that was really good and I started metal detecting
Mike Failace:that you're like one of those weirdos on a beach with the walking around the metal detectors.
Kevin Donaldson:It is the most and I know another retired cop that is into it. He's trying to get me I just don't have the time to do it anymore. But it was the most calming thing in the world because you're out in the woods. You're out in the middle of nowhere. You got headphones on you're listening to and you're focused and you have a purpose. It was the most calming thing in the world.
Mike Failace:I can't I can't do it. I can't like run with headphones on. I need to hear what's going on around me. I need to hear if someone's walking up behind me. I can't have headphones on just listen to the beep beep
Kevin Donaldson:i was never so hyperfocused is when I was doing that and that really brought me down a little bit.
Mike Failace:Did you ever find anything in olds? Oh, I
Kevin Donaldson:got a I found a 1787 Novus ACERA which is a New Jersey copper. The Constitution was signed in 1787 I found it in a behind the Lazar school in Monroeville which is right on change Bridge Road. It's it's about that big and it's in the ground. 1787 I found colonial for Hot Buttons, I found a lot of mercury and I found a lot of silver and stuff like this rings and shit like that. But that novice Sarah was just sitting there. It was about eight inches down, put it out and just brushed it up like 17 Why? You could tell it was a coin. What the hell is this? So yeah, I have found things, but it's less about what you find. And it's more about just going out there and, and having a focused journey and a purpose.
Mike Failace:What we repurposing so take something and repurpose it.
Kevin Donaldson:I think. I think purpose is the is the is the way we cage that beast. The beast kryptonite. Yeah, I think purpose because lack of purpose. That's when the beast comes out when you're out of control
Mike Failace:mine to really hit me at night when I was laying down going to bed, because now you got nothing to you're just laying you can't sleep. That's one thing with post traumatic stress, you have a hard time falling asleep. thinking mind starts racing. And you're laying there for sometimes for hours on end. And you finally fall asleep you only get two or three hours of sleep. Now you wake up next morning, you're in that mood again. Because you didn't sleep well. And I think you're I think purpose is the way to.
Kevin Donaldson:So we've gone through this. We've looked the beast in the eye many many times. Still do we do we do from time to time? I think we have a little bit better grasp of it because we recognize them a little bit better.
Mike Failace:Let's see. Are we like gluttons for punishment? Yeah, doing a shell CNP beast, seeing the beast, other people's beast on a weekly basis. But its purpose, its purpose. And it's helping them which in turn helps us.
Kevin Donaldson:You know, a lot of times when when I develop the outlines for these shows, I sort of know where it's going. This was one that we sort of developed on the fly. And I really didn't know where it's going. I didn't
Mike Failace:really even go off this list. It was a little bit of
Kevin Donaldson:but we could sit here and talk for hours about the beast because again, we've looked to be square in the eyes. We've battled the beast, for I battled it for the past nine years. You've battled it for what the past eight years. So we're very familiar with him. You've looked you've looked the beast in the eye. What do you think it's taught you that suffering?
Mike Failace:If you let the beast be bigger than you, then he's going to be bigger than you. You have to be bigger than that beast and learn how to control it. And it's just like, you get a big dog like, let's say a Rottweiler, you let that Rottweiler run all over, he's going to eat you know, learn how to train a Rottweiler, learn how to take care of the Rottweiler. befriend a Rottweiler to maybe that's it, befriend the beast,
Kevin Donaldson:because because a Rottweiler is going to be there with you for the next
Mike Failace:X amount of years. So you know, you know the beast is going to be there.
Kevin Donaldson:I like that befriend the beast, I'm gonna have to write that one down. I may use that one hashtag befriend the beast, hey, we're just we're all about hashtag and stuff.
Mike Failace:That's another good one I came up with all by myself.
Kevin Donaldson:For me, it's it's taming the beast. It's looking that beast in the eye and containing him. But I have to go back to this the thing that what this suffering has taught me is purpose is like you said the beasts kryptonite. And when when I feel like my life is without purpose, that's when the baby starts rearing its ugly head. But I will. I don't ever want the beast to get the better of me again.
Mike Failace:I said be bigger than the beast. Yeah.
Kevin Donaldson:I'd be bigger than the beast. I liked that one. This was let's let's end it on a high note anyway. The Mel Brooks high note
Mike Failace:but to anybody out there. If you're going through this, you can get through it. It's not easy. It's not fun. But just keep some purpose in your life. Start A Podcast kind of like
Kevin Donaldson:but now. Now we bring the beast out for exhibit. That's what we do. We bring the beast on exhibit because we've befriended him we've we know who he is. Now we know exactly who
Mike Failace:he he's in here every week. Better No.
Kevin Donaldson:And that's gonna do it for this episode of the suffering podcast, the suffering of the beast. And let's think about all the stuff that we learned today. You don't have to understand trauma to be empathetic. We are right where we need to be at all times. Learn how to wrangle the beast and befriend the beast. But most importantly and I'm going to I'm gonna say it's most because it's something like you of course purpose may change the beast that's going to go for this episode of the suffering podcast the suffering of the beast. Follow us on Instagram Facebook and Twitter follow Mike on Mike underscore fleece follow me at real Kevin Donaldson and of course follow the suffering podcast. If you like our content, don't Get subscribe hit the bell let's get to that 5000 mark and we're gonna see you on the next episode of suffering podcast
Mike Failace:hashtag beacon of Beast
