Nov. 12, 2023
51: Maximizing Revenue by Bridging the Sales-Marketing Gap with Nathan Yeung
Imagine a world where your sales and marketing efforts aren't at odds, but instead, they're in perfect harmony, working together to significantly boost your revenue. That's the world Nathan Yeung, founder of Find Your Audience, lives in every day! In our enlightening chat, Nathan pulls back the curtain on this integrated approach, sharing strategies for blending sales and marketing into a conversion rate optimization (CRO) role and illuminating the potential challenges in achieving this harmony.
Our conversation gets really interesting as we delve into the concept of scrubbing, a cunning technique well-known in the affiliate marketing realm. As a lifelong marketing enthusiast and a fractional CMO, Nathan's perspective on the customer's role in shaping an effective strategy is quite compelling. His belief in the power of user-generated content in marketing, and his insights on how marketing can act as a robust support to sales are sure to give you food for thought.
But the nuggets of wisdom don't stop there. We also discuss the importance of sales enablement tools and how they can increase the success rate of your sales calls. Plus, we get into the nitty-gritty of crafting a work-back schedule and sequencing retargeting to create a captivating narrative. As we wrap up, we underscore the power of a well-crafted call to action and engagement opportunities. If increasing revenue through seamless integration of sales and marketing is on your agenda, this chat with Nathan Young is what your playlist needs!
🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Meetup Group: https://www.meetup.com/entrepreneurship-meetup-group-northwest-illinois-suburbs/
https://www.findyouraudience.online/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/yeungnathan/
Come tour my digital home :) >>>Website
Wanna be friends? >>> LinkedIn
Let's chat every Tuesday! >>> Newsletter
Catch the video podcast on YouTube >>> YouTube
Chapters
00:03 - Maximizing Marketing and Sales Integration
12:29 - Blend Sales and Marketing in CRO
16:00 - Marketing's Role in Amplifying Revenue
25:41 - Sales Decks and Case Studies Importance
35:49 - Call to Action and Engagement Opportunities
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:03.806 --> 00:00:09.015
I'm really a big believer in the fact that you can't really prescribe marketing.
00:00:09.015 --> 00:00:10.442
Marketing is.
00:00:10.442 --> 00:00:25.945
I almost look at it as like you're a doctor, when you go into a business because it's so different in so many different ways, and so you have to kind of look at all the symptoms of that organization and then diagnose the disease and that disease is what you treat.
00:00:31.179 --> 00:00:33.668
Welcome, welcome, welcome to Tiny Marketing.
00:00:33.668 --> 00:00:45.011
Today I am talking to Nathan Young, the founder of Find your Audience, and we are going to be talking about how to integrate marketing and sales.
00:00:45.011 --> 00:00:55.451
As we've talked about so many times on this show, marketing and sales are often at each other's throats, but that doesn't need to be the case.
00:00:55.451 --> 00:00:56.585
It really doesn't.
00:00:56.585 --> 00:01:00.268
In the end, our goal is the same.
00:01:00.268 --> 00:01:14.313
Our goal is to sell, our goal is to make money for the business, so it's really kind of detrimental to the business as a whole when marketing and sales can't get along.
00:01:14.313 --> 00:01:22.049
Today we're going to be talking about how you can amplify your revenue and uncover the secrets of successful marketing and sales integration.
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So get pumped, get ready and stay tuned to be a fly on the wall with my conversation with Nathan.
00:01:31.421 --> 00:01:32.525
My name is Nathan Young.
00:01:32.525 --> 00:01:35.829
I run a firm called Find your Audience.
00:01:35.829 --> 00:01:54.760
We've been in business for about seven years, but really I'm a fractional CMO across multiple industries like everything from IT, recruiting, professional services, private equity, series A companies, b2b, saas and really have just been marketing for almost like for my actual lifetime probably like 15 years.
00:01:54.760 --> 00:02:05.000
So lots of marketing experiences and someone who enjoys being really hands-on, so tactically proficient in every part of marketing.
00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.730
So I've been definitely a person who's a lifelong learner in marketing.
00:02:09.181 --> 00:02:10.546
A proud generalist.
00:02:11.181 --> 00:02:12.004
Proud generalist.
00:02:12.004 --> 00:02:13.960
No, I have some specialties.
00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:20.292
I'm definitely a specialist in SEO, so I'm a generalist, but I definitely have like high affinities and certain tactical areas.
00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:21.986
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:02:21.986 --> 00:02:28.372
I would consider myself a generalist too, but I focus more on content marketing than anything else.
00:02:28.372 --> 00:02:29.533
Amazing.
00:02:29.533 --> 00:02:37.979
So I want to talk deeply into sales and marketing, the blending of it.
00:02:37.979 --> 00:02:40.127
But first, how did you come up with your name?
00:02:40.127 --> 00:02:42.969
The Find your Audience.
00:02:42.969 --> 00:02:44.838
What's the origin story?
00:02:47.724 --> 00:02:57.549
The origin story is funny because there's three guys that started it myself, paul and Ray and we were all media buyers.
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So we were all kind of just doing like super affiliate stuff on the side and we're just like let's just start an agency called Find your Audience, because that's like all we do.
00:03:10.133 --> 00:03:16.866
We find people online and we serve them ads and we hope for them to click, and that was kind of the origins.
00:03:16.866 --> 00:03:24.042
Okay, and honestly, our name kind of plays For us and also against us.
00:03:24.042 --> 00:03:33.895
It plays for us because it's find your audience online, which is literally a sentence, and then for everyone who writes our emails, they hate us because it's incredibly long.
00:03:33.895 --> 00:03:35.560
So it's just been.
00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:39.895
It's been a long time coming for us to think about maybe even changing names.
00:03:39.895 --> 00:03:41.419
But that's really where it came from.
00:03:41.419 --> 00:03:45.495
We were all media buyers and we thought, hey, you know, we help people find their audience.
00:03:45.495 --> 00:03:47.514
That's literally what we do, so let's just call it that.
00:03:48.257 --> 00:03:49.098
Well, that makes sense.
00:03:49.098 --> 00:03:52.545
You so that media buying was your origin.
00:03:52.545 --> 00:03:53.448
Do you still do that?
00:03:55.157 --> 00:03:58.008
We do it to like a much more limited expense.
00:03:58.008 --> 00:04:13.128
For anyone who's ever done media arbitrage, you're cash flowing like 60, 70, 80, 90 thousand dollars a month easily and it's a little bit different from like our B2B clients like we do.
00:04:13.128 --> 00:04:23.696
Like we do a lot of real estate launches, so we're spending a hundred grand at a time but that's like on a contract and like we get paid for that and and I can touch and feel those people, like I can see them in Person.
00:04:23.696 --> 00:04:33.303
When I'm spending 90 grand credit card bills for someone overseas on an overseas like offer, like you have no idea when or how you're gonna get paid.
00:04:33.463 --> 00:04:37.334
And now we stop that, because it's incredibly great money.
00:04:37.334 --> 00:04:40.906
So for those are listening like you make tons of money, but it's so stressful.
00:04:40.906 --> 00:04:48.459
Like you, you have no idea if they will read an egg on your offer, right, they can go on paying you five dollars late oh, we're gonna give you three.
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We're gonna give you two and a half.
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Oh, we're gonna cut half your leads.
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So it's not like for the faint of heart you know, yeah, and my heart feels faint right now hearing those numbers.
00:05:00.016 --> 00:05:03.685
Yeah, I think the most we ever had on a credit card bill in one month.
00:05:03.685 --> 00:05:07.434
I was like 230,000 usd.
00:05:07.434 --> 00:05:09.379
Yeah, and that's Canadians.
00:05:09.379 --> 00:05:10.403
That's like 30% more.
00:05:10.403 --> 00:05:11.485
So that's like 300 grand.
00:05:11.857 --> 00:05:12.920
Oh my god.
00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:21.220
So I feel like you're speaking from experience that people have backed away and haven't Haven't paid those.
00:05:21.935 --> 00:05:32.197
There's the dark side of affiliate marketing, which you know maybe I'll get a lot of hate on if anyone's listening but there are things called scrubbing and scrubbing is a very common Tactic.
00:05:32.197 --> 00:05:37.649
It is something that's baked into every affiliate networks model and it's really just a part of their margin.
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So if you're part of the affiliate network and you send a hundred leads, their platform naturally has a mechanism that says scrub five to ten percent of those leads.
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And they do that for two reasons.
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One, they're also representing the offer on the, on a primary relationship perspective, and sometimes those primary people scrub them.
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So essentially, that five to ten percent is is a buffer for them in case that you do send bad leads.
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But then, at the same time, if you don't send bad leads, they just keep that buffer right.
00:06:04.814 --> 00:06:08.206
So they essentially make a free ten percent on your, on your lead.
00:06:08.247 --> 00:06:10.454
So yeah, it's a very common practice oh.
00:06:10.454 --> 00:06:11.958
My gosh.
00:06:11.958 --> 00:06:15.790
I am not part of that world at all, so that's completely new to me.
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It is heart wrenching, it's.
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It causes a lot of stress.
00:06:19.302 --> 00:06:20.485
Yeah, I imagine.
00:06:20.485 --> 00:06:22.923
Well, we've really rabbit hole.
00:06:22.923 --> 00:06:33.923
Nice and good on that topic, but we are focusing on being a fractional CMO and One thing that you do is build marketing departments from scratch.
00:06:33.923 --> 00:06:35.447
Can you tell me about your process?
00:06:36.435 --> 00:06:38.358
It really depends on the organization.
00:06:38.358 --> 00:06:43.790
I'm really a big believer in the fact that, like, you can't really prescribe marketing.
00:06:43.790 --> 00:06:45.238
Like marketing is.
00:06:45.238 --> 00:07:00.725
I almost like look at it as like you're a doctor when you go into a business because it's so Different in so many different ways, and so you have to kind of look at all the symptoms of that organization and then diagnose the disease and that disease is what you treat.
00:07:00.725 --> 00:07:16.415
And so I think the way I you know, we build teams is really dependent on the maturity of the industry, the maturity of the organization, the maturity of the human resources, and then then taking that and then applying it against the, the constraints.
00:07:16.615 --> 00:07:20.365
So what's your human capital constraints, what's our monetary constraints?
00:07:20.365 --> 00:07:29.745
And then trying to figure out, okay, well, if this is our world and this is our box, what are the biggest and most impactful things we can do?
00:07:29.745 --> 00:07:40.584
And like the funny thing that I always bring up because, like I feel like Everyone talks about it it's like let's do tick-tock, let's do rules, and I always look at the organization and I go.
00:07:40.584 --> 00:07:52.014
Your entire organization is like the average age of 35 and Mostly male, so the likelihood of you having some young, spry content creator in your team is very unlikely.
00:07:52.014 --> 00:08:01.704
So I'm glad that you are watching tick-tock and I'm glad that your kids are watching tick-tock and you feel very influenced, but you have zero probability on executing on the stack.
00:08:01.704 --> 00:08:02.206
Very well.
00:08:03.036 --> 00:08:05.451
So so you have to give some hard truths occasionally.
00:08:05.814 --> 00:08:15.607
Yeah, and so so I'm like, look like I totally like if you were a Gen Z company that was like bootstrap that you, there's a probability that one of your younger employees could probably just like do it on a whim.
00:08:15.607 --> 00:08:30.389
But some organizations just learn equipped for that, and so I really have to tell them look, you got to focus on what you can do and we, and then you have to double down on those things because it's better than trying to really honestly chase like shining objects.
00:08:32.356 --> 00:08:36.921
Yeah, so this goes into a little bit of what.
00:08:36.921 --> 00:08:57.315
What I do when I'm building out a strategy at the end is figuring out what can you actually do in-house with the team and the budget that you already have, and then looking at the customer avatar first, like who do you want to clone and Try and replicating that journey for them.
00:08:57.315 --> 00:09:03.408
People feel like they have to be everywhere and show up on all platforms, but you really don't have to.
00:09:04.154 --> 00:09:04.679
Absolutely.
00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:06.414
And the other thing as well.
00:09:06.414 --> 00:09:17.825
I always go like, when you're constrained, like we did a study and there's lots of studies out there that say, like the amount of frequency that you have to show an ad is anywhere between like 9 to 14 somewhere around there.
00:09:17.825 --> 00:09:20.654
Our studies showed that it was like 30 and above.
00:09:21.618 --> 00:09:23.106
That one person has to see it.
00:09:23.106 --> 00:09:24.254
Yeah, the influence Wow.
00:09:24.775 --> 00:09:33.860
Yeah, before you actually really start remembering something, and that comes down that kind of brings everything in full circle to one Sort of point of truth.
00:09:33.860 --> 00:09:40.100
The point of truth is is that if you don't have a lot of money and you don't have a lot of time, you don't have a lot of resources.
00:09:40.100 --> 00:09:50.677
You really have to get that one impression and do it really really, really, really well, because that's not the time you can afford it, right.
00:09:51.038 --> 00:10:06.735
So if you do a really bad tiktok reel and you know you're lucky enough to land on that CEO whose kids watching it, you end up showing up on their feed and your tiktok looks like it's amateur hour and just like terrible, you've lost that lead and you're never gonna get the back.
00:10:06.735 --> 00:10:26.443
So it goes back to this whole idea, that is, you know, the more constrained you are, the more you're likely needing to focus on either an amazing creative or amazing Execution, because you're not really going to have the, the power or the money to do something consistently, and so therefore, it's even more important.
00:10:26.443 --> 00:10:31.707
So you can't see, you can't, can't spread yourself in, because then you're just not doing yourself any favors.
00:10:32.456 --> 00:10:44.648
Yeah, you have a whole bunch of trash Out all over the internet and stuff, so we're focusing on quality over quantity is what I'm hearing 100%, 100% and and bizarre.
00:10:44.869 --> 00:10:47.097
You know, don't be scared to be bizarre, I like, I think.
00:10:47.097 --> 00:10:57.105
I think so many companies are so scared of being a little quirky the house right and like If anyone's watched Ryan Reynolds recently.
00:10:57.105 --> 00:11:06.964
Everything he does is quirky and there's a reason for that, and he's made more money than you probably have if you're listening to this, but if you think Ryan Reynolds is is stupid or he hasn't done well.
00:11:07.004 --> 00:11:23.315
Well, I can tell you, he's made, you know you, 50 million dollar companies into 200 million dollar companies, why BC's made amazing storytelling kind of journeys and and he's made them quirky, and when they're quirky you remember, and so he's got both the distribution and the quirkiness going through.
00:11:23.735 --> 00:11:35.241
Yeah, he's a really good example too, of like taking your personality and owning it and you become known for that thing, and that can be your differentiator.
00:11:35.241 --> 00:11:39.193
He has been like exactly the same since, like Van Wilder days.
00:11:39.794 --> 00:11:40.296
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:40.296 --> 00:11:45.765
The only thing we were just talking about was like Amity Bill Horror, I think that was like the only thing we were, that was the blur.
00:11:45.886 --> 00:11:47.972
Yeah, that was, he was like very serious.
00:11:47.972 --> 00:11:50.820
I remember seeing that in the theater.
00:11:50.820 --> 00:11:54.514
I'm like, huh, it's not, it's not very Van Wilder of him.
00:11:55.076 --> 00:11:55.980
No, yeah, I know.
00:11:56.782 --> 00:12:00.493
Okay, let's go back to building that marketing team from scratch.
00:12:00.493 --> 00:12:11.644
It sounds like you first focus on the team that they have in-house and then how do you decide who to bring on, or if they're going to be fractional or in-house.
00:12:12.687 --> 00:12:15.899
We really again just look at that budget and look at what they need.
00:12:15.899 --> 00:12:25.933
It's really down to their ideal customer profiles and really understanding, like, where those customers are Right, you know, like where's the on-house background?
00:12:26.515 --> 00:12:27.318
Are they on LinkedIn?
00:12:27.318 --> 00:12:28.764
Are they in conferences?
00:12:28.764 --> 00:12:48.171
A great example I gave in another podcast was I was talking about the cybersecurity space and, like how most chief security officers, or like information officers or CTOs, when it comes to cybersecurity they like, uniquely hate like anything digital because, if you think about it, like their whole job is to stop phishing.
00:12:49.033 --> 00:12:52.744
They don't trust it, they don't trust it.
00:12:52.764 --> 00:12:58.057
So can you imagine being like a marketing guy and just be like, hey, would you like to come on a demo?
00:12:58.057 --> 00:13:05.264
It's like they're natively they don't like it and so predominantly like a lot of that is corporate event marketing.
00:13:05.264 --> 00:13:12.711
So a lot of cybersecurity companies really actually need to go to conferences or they have to be very creative in terms of getting in front of people.
00:13:12.711 --> 00:13:21.423
So really looking into those industries, really looking at those ideal customer profiles and just being honest on like where are these people?
00:13:21.423 --> 00:13:28.240
And then really looking at the organization and then saying, okay, what can we do to get into those channels as well?
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:46.145
So, god forbid, you're in a 40 plus age organization and the only channel that their customers are on TikTok, then they're going to have to hack they're going to either have to hire, like an agency or like a freelancer to be a content creator and they're going to have to go on to TikTok and really be active there.
00:13:46.264 --> 00:13:51.193
So it's really matching those two and then we kind of figure out where those resource gaps are.
00:13:51.754 --> 00:13:57.897
They could also seek out people who are already creators on TikTok and create like a brand deal with them.
00:13:57.996 --> 00:14:08.900
Yeah, user generated content is king, especially when it comes to e-commerce, and so, you know, even in real estate actually on a real estate agent perspective, I always recommend doing UGC for developers.
00:14:08.900 --> 00:14:21.932
So I think, if you have the capacity and you have the coordination capability, really going out into that market and generating that content with use like actual content creators, is an amazing tool for a variety of different reasons.
00:14:22.794 --> 00:14:23.919
Yeah, people trust it more.
00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:27.933
For anybody who's listening and doesn't know what UGC is, it's user generated content.
00:14:28.816 --> 00:14:30.520
So you're king of acronyms.
00:14:32.586 --> 00:14:35.094
Just in case anyone listening doesn't know what that is.
00:14:35.094 --> 00:14:41.875
So I wanted to loop back around to what you were saying about security, because I just have a funny little connection with that.
00:14:41.875 --> 00:14:59.100
I just finished a strategy and their core customer was a CIO's chief innovation officers but I found the same thing that when I was interviewing their customers, they never talked anything about anything digital.
00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:15.423
I was like trying to figure out where they find their information, how they solve their problems, and it was always talking to their network going to conferences, anything with innovation in the name they were happy to go to, but it was all in-person stuff.
00:15:15.423 --> 00:15:16.570
So that's a funny connection.
00:15:17.192 --> 00:15:17.835
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:17.835 --> 00:15:22.993
They're very, very serious people and they take their job very seriously and they don't like security breaches.
00:15:23.815 --> 00:15:29.251
Yes, and if there's digital involved, there's a breach that's going to happen.
00:15:29.251 --> 00:15:38.032
So in your intake form, you mentioned that marketing and sales should blend.
00:15:38.032 --> 00:15:40.197
I really want to dive into that.
00:15:40.197 --> 00:15:52.938
I agree with you, and as someone who is in corporate marketing for 10 years before I started my own thing, I know it's really hard to do that too, so I want your perspective on that.
00:15:52.938 --> 00:15:58.332
Well, here you said that sales and marketing should blend into a CRO role.
00:15:58.332 --> 00:15:59.193
Can you explain that?
00:16:00.397 --> 00:16:04.671
I think, at the end of the day, every organization wants revenue.
00:16:04.671 --> 00:16:12.294
If you look at the ICPs that talk about marketing, they all end up in the same place why aren't we making more money?
00:16:12.294 --> 00:16:15.687
And two people would generally get blamed for that.
00:16:15.687 --> 00:16:19.076
Marketing gets blamed because, quote, unquote, no one knows us.
00:16:19.076 --> 00:16:23.715
Or B sales gets blamed, be like, why aren't you closing?
00:16:23.715 --> 00:16:28.833
And then it becomes this vicious cycle of well, it's because marketing's not bringing enough people.
00:16:28.833 --> 00:16:32.830
And then typically then marketing goes well, we don't have enough money.
00:16:32.830 --> 00:16:36.644
And then the CEO goes well, we don't have enough revenue, so you don't get budget.
00:16:36.644 --> 00:16:43.702
So then it's like a vicious cycle where basically, you're explaining my life for 10 years.
00:16:45.049 --> 00:17:02.110
And so I think this problem started when digital marketing became a thing, and I think there was a large, massive movement and even including myself in my earlier years of marketing where I was like, oh my God, marketing is so measurable, everyone should be in performance marketing.
00:17:02.110 --> 00:17:16.391
There's so much power in performance marketing, but that whole movement has pigeonholed the living Jesus of marketing people, and what I mean by pigeonholed is everyone that's a marketer nowadays gets pigeonholed into this.
00:17:16.391 --> 00:17:19.914
Where's my inbound KPI framework?
00:17:19.914 --> 00:17:32.625
That is typically including KPIs around MQLs, and I always go like MQLs is kind of a meaningless number at the end of the day, because Marketing qualified leads.
00:17:32.684 --> 00:17:43.469
for anyone who doesn't know what that is Marketing qualified leads is a meaningless number because, first of all, it depends on how you define it, but just generally speaking, let's just say someone who fills a form.
00:17:43.469 --> 00:17:47.865
And then, second of all, mqls is not a number that drives revenue.
00:17:47.865 --> 00:17:56.645
Sqls are, which is sales, qualified leads, which is, you know, the people that actually turn into someone who's interested, and then, of course, the actual conversion of them closing.
00:17:56.645 --> 00:18:03.173
So sales qualified lead isn't even a sale, it's just the person who's interested, indicated interest, and then there's ultimately a sale.
00:18:03.173 --> 00:18:06.443
So I go, at the end of the day, this all leads back to revenue.
00:18:06.545 --> 00:18:15.513
And so why do we focus so much on this MQL number when there's so much of that journey that is not within the control of a marketing person?
00:18:15.513 --> 00:18:17.800
And so you know, I find your audience.
00:18:17.800 --> 00:18:50.567
We really say we help amplify revenue, we're marketing functions that amplify revenue, and that means not only on an inbound perspective, which means we're helping get leads into the door, on a top of funnel perspective, but also you know, riddle me this if I doubled the productivity of your salesperson, because your salesperson is no longer wasting their time on a CRM automation, customer relationship management tool like a HubSpot and figuring that out, designing email campaigns that they shouldn't be.
00:18:51.009 --> 00:18:51.691
No, they should not.
00:18:52.192 --> 00:19:20.613
Trying to copyright when they're really just phone people coordinating a conference of which they figured out last minute, like if we doubled the productivity, took all of those meaningless tasks away and had your salespeople, who are really technical solutions people, people who are great at understanding, going through discovery and providing solutions on a call, could that also amplify your revenue?
00:19:20.613 --> 00:19:21.740
And the answer is yes.
00:19:21.740 --> 00:19:41.843
So this idea that a marketing function goes in and they're only driven by MQLs is a fallacy, because there are organizations that are sales led and there's nothing wrong from marketing function to go into a sales led organization and double the productivity of sales because it's a sales led organization.
00:19:41.843 --> 00:19:42.604
Yeah.
00:19:43.506 --> 00:20:02.941
I am 100% on board with you on that and I kind of see that as like a secular help to when it comes to marketing and sales, because the salespeople are experts on the customer, so marketing can create so much better and more effective marketing with the support from sales.
00:20:02.941 --> 00:20:21.315
And if sales is working with like account based sales, that where, like construction companies typically are going after the same type of accounts, marketing can then create campaigns specifically for those accounts and everybody is more effective.
00:20:22.176 --> 00:20:25.816
And construction is a great example, because I've talked to a very large construction company.
00:20:25.816 --> 00:20:27.604
They're like we don't need marketing, people come to us.
00:20:27.604 --> 00:20:28.406
I'm like that's fair.
00:20:28.406 --> 00:20:33.064
But like, have you ever seen your salesperson try to organize a dinner?
00:20:33.526 --> 00:20:38.182
and out of curiosity do you think they do a great job or do you think they just make a reservation?
00:20:38.182 --> 00:20:49.176
So I understand that salespeople and in certain industries it's very inbound, it's very referral and the touch points are very influenced by those touch points.
00:20:49.176 --> 00:20:53.452
But it doesn't mean you can't do a better job on things that they're really just not great at.
00:20:53.452 --> 00:21:04.290
So let marketing help them on that, let marketing be a glorified assistant to them, but making sure that every experience, every touch point they have is going to be amazing with that customer.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:09.808
Yeah, so my background in corporate was exactly what you're talking about.
00:21:09.808 --> 00:21:26.602
I have been working with, like building product companies and construction companies for a long time and that is how I support them is I work with them on account based marketing, so I'm creating marketing that's specific for those accounts.
00:21:26.602 --> 00:21:46.810
I'm amplifying their reach so when they're trying to connect with new people and network with them they've already heard of us because of the marketing that I've done and then all of those little things that they don't want to do, like or that they shouldn't be doing, like the email campaigns, the events those were all on me.
00:21:46.810 --> 00:21:55.289
But yeah, I think of marketing in those capacities where it sales led as a support for them and an amplifier, like you said.
00:21:56.392 --> 00:22:14.319
Yeah, and I think people, people really want to chase that golden, you know egg where it's like well, marketing is this like inbound machine, this dream machine, and they really just forget like, marketing can still be very much of support function, but it is a productivity function and that productivity can be amplified.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.231
The more salespeople you have, the more useful this is.
00:22:17.231 --> 00:22:24.555
And we have implemented this in some organizations where we have cut the MQLs in half but we have increased revenue.
00:22:24.555 --> 00:22:27.744
So does that mean I've done a piss-poor job?
00:22:27.744 --> 00:22:32.961
Well, for some organizations, yeah, but you know, the the end of the day, it's about revenue.
00:22:33.162 --> 00:22:41.541
So if we can cut MQLs in half and we can increase top of line, then, you know, does it really matter?
00:22:41.541 --> 00:22:46.051
So that's why I think sales and marketing need to be a bit more aligned.
00:22:46.051 --> 00:22:56.233
And I think this idea of pitching, holding marketing people into MQLs and like these impressions and like all these stupid metrics that I like to call our amateur hour metrics, why?
00:22:56.233 --> 00:23:06.230
Because you bring them up because you have no idea why they're valuable, like some marketing guy has sold you on it, which is, which is our job, but you know, it's just it's it's it's.
00:23:06.230 --> 00:23:13.000
It just shows that some organizations are very much in the nascent level of their, their education, when it comes to marketing.
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:17.073
It's like they're very infant in the stage of growth yeah.
00:23:17.934 --> 00:23:18.958
So what I'm hearing?
00:23:19.077 --> 00:24:01.813
if MQLs are getting cut in half and revenue is growing, then you are focusing on what higher quality leads and maybe supporting sales and up leveling the, the packages that they're selling you know, higher quality leads, better sales packages, better nurturing campaigns, better cadences, more case studies, more enablement tools, so that the the chances of them closing are higher, right, so, yes, a salesperson is going to be amazing on educating and talking to a customer, making those customers feel heard, but those materials that we produce that are very specific to their pain points and demonstrating our benefits are really, really, really important.
00:24:01.813 --> 00:24:08.652
But I always say this you know, every business has category benefits, which is everything that every other company can provide.
00:24:08.652 --> 00:24:18.126
It's your job to prove which benefit you do the best at, and the only way you do that is through marketing materials and spending the time to produce great materials.
00:24:18.827 --> 00:24:32.669
I'm reading obviously awesome right now, which is about positioning and messaging, but it talked exactly about that that find what benefits you do better than anybody else and just talk about those.
00:24:32.828 --> 00:24:53.438
That is your thing and I think again, that always goes back to this whole thing you as a person are always constrained, as a business are constrained, so you have like limited time frames and touch points to influence someone and if you can't do it the best in that limited time frame, then you're really losing an opportunity.
00:24:53.438 --> 00:25:01.219
So when you're spread thin, you have bad case studies, you have bad web copy, you have a bad website, you have bad sales tax, and then you just lose opportunity.
00:25:01.219 --> 00:25:06.015
Whether at least you can have an amazing sales deck, like a deck that just crushes.
00:25:06.015 --> 00:25:15.396
It hits every single pain point, has amazing infographics, and when someone's on the call, they're like I have really no questions, like you've really just answered everything.
00:25:15.396 --> 00:25:16.380
I totally understand it.
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:17.054
It's super simple.
00:25:17.054 --> 00:25:18.555
Like where do I sign up?
00:25:18.555 --> 00:25:22.058
And I think that's super important versus trying to do everything.
00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:22.760
Yeah.
00:25:22.760 --> 00:25:28.998
So I'm hearing a lot about constraints and focusing in on certain things.
00:25:28.998 --> 00:25:38.101
So what are some marketing tactics that you would always put first that people should prioritize?
00:25:39.210 --> 00:25:39.972
That's a really good one.
00:25:39.972 --> 00:25:44.558
Sales Decks and Case Studies, I think, just right from the get go.
00:25:44.558 --> 00:25:52.019
It's such a painful thing and so many companies really avoid it, and companies also forget how long it takes to build those.
00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:58.401
So I think if you're an organization and you're stumbling right now, really go back to the basics.
00:25:58.401 --> 00:26:03.518
Go figure out again how are you proving your worth and trying to create as much material around that?
00:26:03.518 --> 00:26:06.117
Because those tools ultimately sell themselves.
00:26:06.117 --> 00:26:09.433
Those become a part of your product-led journey, product-led growth model.
00:26:09.433 --> 00:26:13.917
You produce them well and they're amazing tools for your salespeople.
00:26:13.917 --> 00:26:16.278
So I think, really sales enablement tools.
00:26:16.278 --> 00:26:28.858
There's a lot of organizations that still have sales decks that aren't institutionalized, meaning templated, to any extent, and there's a lot of organizations that are off-brand because salespeople are doing all willy-nilly stuff on the side.
00:26:28.858 --> 00:26:35.394
And then there's often also a lot of organizations where none of the salespeople actually even know where their materials are.
00:26:36.190 --> 00:26:40.557
Yes, a lot of the things you're saying I have experienced and seen too.
00:26:41.450 --> 00:26:42.113
Product sheet.
00:26:42.113 --> 00:26:43.057
What product sheet?
00:26:43.057 --> 00:26:44.776
The product sheet we just launched last week.
00:26:44.776 --> 00:26:45.558
You were part of launch.
00:26:45.558 --> 00:26:47.068
I didn't even know we had a product sheet.
00:26:47.068 --> 00:26:49.959
It's like, well, yeah, well, we launched the product.
00:26:49.959 --> 00:26:53.439
So I really think it sounds so simple.
00:26:53.910 --> 00:27:07.076
But you also have to think about focus on the opportunities you have, and so the reason why I say sales enablement tools are so important is, if you're on a sales call, that's a massive opportunity for you.
00:27:07.076 --> 00:27:14.952
So if you can optimize the closing rates of your sales calls, that's a big win.
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