Ep. 74: Three steps to increase customer lifetime value

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:00.261 --> 00:00:06.546
I think inside the business relationship it's so, so big that taking care that being reliable, showing up.

00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:08.807
Hello you beautiful creatures.

00:00:08.807 --> 00:00:11.789
This is Sarah Noelle Luck and you're listening to Tiny Marketing.

00:00:11.789 --> 00:00:23.928
Today we are wrapping up our branding series and we are talking about all about how to increase your lifetime value with clients through brand.

00:00:23.928 --> 00:00:55.941
I'm talking to Amy Posner and she gave me some really great insights on how you can set up your client experience for success from the very beginning, like before they even work with you in the lead generation process, all the way through to experience and the little pieces that you can include within that client experience that will increase the value, ie help you make more money.

00:00:55.941 --> 00:01:06.516
I really loved this episode and I can't wait to get into it, so stay tuned and I'm going to share my conversation with Amy right now.

00:01:06.516 --> 00:01:10.227
Hey, amy, we are recording.

00:01:10.227 --> 00:01:10.466
Now.

00:01:10.466 --> 00:01:11.230
We are live.

00:01:11.230 --> 00:01:13.566
Do you want to introduce yourself to the audience?

00:01:13.566 --> 00:01:14.810
Sure.

00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:16.365
Hello, I'm Amy Posner.

00:01:16.365 --> 00:01:19.670
I am a business growth mentor based in the States.

00:01:19.670 --> 00:01:24.030
I'm pretty much a 30-year serial entrepreneur.

00:01:24.030 --> 00:01:25.233
So lots of stuff to back behind that.

00:01:25.233 --> 00:01:28.060
But that's the real short version, and I'm pretty much a 30-year serial entrepreneur.

00:01:29.784 --> 00:01:32.920
So lots of stuff to back behind that, but that's the real short version.

00:01:32.920 --> 00:01:39.799
Well, I'm curious what have been all of the serials that have happened what?

00:01:40.600 --> 00:01:41.340
were your other businesses.

00:01:41.340 --> 00:01:43.221
Well, it's funny, I did not want to be a business person.

00:01:43.221 --> 00:01:45.784
I grew up in a family business and I got a job.

00:01:45.784 --> 00:01:55.069
I got a job in New York City working for someone where I just had a lot of marketing ideas for him and a lot of business ideas and we would sit and talk.

00:01:55.069 --> 00:02:00.754
Anyway, he offered me the opportunity to become a partner in his business and take it in another direction, and that was it.

00:02:00.754 --> 00:02:07.457
I was off and running and so what we did is we built computers in our office at night and then we computerized businesses during the day.

00:02:07.457 --> 00:02:14.304
It was the early days of computers and it was kind of wild westy, really fun.

00:02:14.304 --> 00:02:34.921
From there I became a partner in a marketing, typography and design agency, sold that, and that was my first taste of like.

00:02:34.942 --> 00:02:36.125
Ooh you can do things as an entrepreneur.

00:02:36.125 --> 00:02:36.825
You can't do otherwise.

00:02:36.825 --> 00:02:40.876
Because I sold, I moved down to about 2,000 square foot loft in Manhattan onto a 28 foot sailboat with a dog.

00:02:40.876 --> 00:02:42.699
You completely changed your life, completely changed my life.

00:02:51.746 --> 00:02:54.747
You're like you know what I want.

00:02:54.747 --> 00:02:59.371
Something different and that's the amazing thing about being an entrepreneur is you have that ability.

00:02:59.371 --> 00:03:03.372
You can just say you know what this really good at sales I got I.

00:03:03.372 --> 00:03:09.417
I ended up becoming a sales trainer, sort of as an independent, but as an adjunct Um, and then I started um.

00:03:09.417 --> 00:03:11.701
I ran in years ago, in the nineties.

00:03:11.701 --> 00:03:17.967
I ran something called the national copywriting center, so that was a discipline I was familiar with and I'd always written copies.

00:03:17.967 --> 00:03:26.633
So I think about a decade ago I opened um, copywriting and marketing consultancy, and that morphed into me being a coach and a mentor.

00:03:26.633 --> 00:03:29.627
And there you had it, all these things.

00:03:29.627 --> 00:03:32.806
My first business though that computer consulting business, is still going today.

00:03:33.669 --> 00:03:33.849
Really.

00:03:34.502 --> 00:03:37.286
It was in management consulting, but yeah, it still exists.

00:03:37.286 --> 00:03:44.044
I'm very surprised and very proud of that, but I sold out from my partner and he's still running the business.

00:03:44.044 --> 00:03:44.665
That's awesome.

00:03:44.665 --> 00:03:46.836
Yeah, it's sort of that, but I sold out from my partner and he's still running the business.

00:03:46.836 --> 00:03:47.580
So that's awesome.

00:03:47.580 --> 00:03:49.522
Yeah, it's shocking.

00:03:49.562 --> 00:03:53.670
You are so brave to be able to take that leap.

00:03:53.670 --> 00:03:55.373
I was not that brave.

00:03:55.373 --> 00:04:02.986
It took me like 10 years of side hustling while working full time to finally take my business full time, to finally take my business full-time.

00:04:02.986 --> 00:04:04.848
And it was so stupid.

00:04:04.848 --> 00:04:13.956
It honestly was because it was like I'm so much more secure with 10 streams of income than one.

00:04:16.846 --> 00:04:18.192
What was I afraid of?

00:04:18.192 --> 00:04:21.399
Well, afraid of having to do it all on your own or make all the decisions, or I mean, there's so many.

00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:22.666
That wasn't even the fear.

00:04:23.821 --> 00:04:31.653
That wasn't even the fear I was having, but now that I live in it that is the hardest part is having to do it all.

00:04:33.379 --> 00:04:34.603
Yeah, it's very brave.

00:04:34.603 --> 00:04:35.625
I mean, I did it.

00:04:35.625 --> 00:04:40.922
I think I just did it like blind sort of stupid, like oh yeah, well, sure I'll try this.

00:04:40.922 --> 00:04:42.923
And then I, and then I found out I loved it.

00:04:43.483 --> 00:04:44.685
But it worked.

00:04:45.487 --> 00:04:50.572
It wasn't intentional, though, just to be fair, it was totally backdoor.

00:04:51.552 --> 00:04:54.175
I feel like it rarely is intentional.

00:04:54.175 --> 00:05:10.875
The side hustling thing just started because I lost my job during the recession and I needed to make some income and then after that experience, like, oh my gosh, my company can just decide I'm not working there anymore and I don't have an income.

00:05:10.875 --> 00:05:20.189
After that I was like I'm always going to have a side income, and so it came out of necessity more than anything.

00:05:20.209 --> 00:05:26.750
Yeah, it's interesting, though I think like like, like it's necessity, but there's that would be like a little entrepreneurial spark there or some.

00:05:27.620 --> 00:05:28.586
I definitely loved it.

00:05:28.980 --> 00:05:32.521
Yeah, that's not what it turns to, of necessity right, there's a.

00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:35.264
There's a, there's an energy to it isn't there.

00:05:35.264 --> 00:05:47.007
Where you're like, I can create something new that's never existed before, that you can't get doing anything else existed before, that you can't get doing anything else.

00:05:47.026 --> 00:05:47.408
Yeah, it's amazing.

00:05:47.408 --> 00:05:49.115
I mean it's like the biggest sandbox in the world, which is kind of terrifying.

00:05:49.115 --> 00:05:51.725
You know, like sandbox, it's kind of terrifying and kind of exciting, it's like that.

00:05:51.725 --> 00:05:55.882
You know that cliche, like the good news is it's up to you, the bad news is it's up to you.

00:05:56.685 --> 00:05:57.927
Yeah, true.

00:05:57.927 --> 00:06:14.047
Well, all this entrepreneur talk and today we're talking to entrepreneurs because we're digging into how to increase that lifetime value, which is where a lot of our money comes from it's like reoccurring clients, right?

00:06:14.047 --> 00:06:18.865
It's people who have worked with us before and they're like yeah, I like you, let me do this again.

00:06:18.865 --> 00:06:20.163
So how do we do that better?

00:06:20.163 --> 00:06:22.187
Let's start.

00:06:22.187 --> 00:06:24.033
Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.

00:06:24.033 --> 00:06:25.867
No, no, no, no, no, no, go please.

00:06:25.867 --> 00:06:29.923
I was just going to say let's start first with the very beginning.

00:06:29.923 --> 00:06:31.646
Stop with lead generation.

00:06:31.646 --> 00:06:38.326
How do you prime that experience with them to be a long-term relationship?

00:06:40.149 --> 00:06:41.872
yeah, I, you know it's, it's interesting.

00:06:41.872 --> 00:07:08.699
I mean there's we talk a lot about nurture right, that word gets, word gets thrown around a lot and we talk about the idea of you know people buy from people they know, like and trust, and as sort of corny and cliche as it sounds, it's true and so you know it's funny I think we at some point, we feel like things should be speeded up or different online and like how would you make a friend offline?

00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.487
Or how would you, you know, talk to somebody who is a potential client?

00:07:11.487 --> 00:07:17.526
So I think that's the first thing is to remember that we need to like get to know people and people need to get to know us.

00:07:17.526 --> 00:07:35.404
And I think the other thing this actors in here is like length of buying decision and how long it takes somebody to make a decision right, like if I buy what you sell, I may have somebody who I already buy it from, or I may not buy it on the regular.

00:07:35.404 --> 00:07:41.744
So what has to happen is I need to have the opportunity, I need to need you right.

00:07:41.744 --> 00:07:47.425
I either need to be impressed by you so that I think, oops, I'm buying this service, but I think I need to be impressed by you so that I think, whoops, I'm buying this service, but I think I could get more over here.

00:07:48.543 --> 00:07:54.148
And that's something that happens over time, because I've seen you and I see what you say and I see what you're, you know what you're about.

00:07:54.148 --> 00:08:02.983
So there's that part of the decision-making process, that where somebody you know if you're going to think of them as a lead, like as somebody where, somebody.

00:08:02.983 --> 00:08:10.894
If you're going to think of them as a lead, like somebody who's your potential client, they get to know and trust you over time and that's how they can make a buying decision.

00:08:10.894 --> 00:08:16.379
So it starts.

00:08:16.379 --> 00:08:17.802
I believe that was a little lengthy, but I'd like to sum it up.

00:08:17.802 --> 00:08:20.887
I believe it's about exchanging value before money changes hands and so that you deliver value.

00:08:20.887 --> 00:08:26.675
Deliver value, deliver value, be useful, make an impression.

00:08:28.843 --> 00:08:31.471
Yeah, that has been my experience too.

00:08:31.471 --> 00:08:41.222
That's why I'm always starting from the rooftop have some sort of core content that you can rely on so you're consistently building that.

00:08:41.222 --> 00:08:45.812
Know having people discover you trust providing value.

00:08:45.812 --> 00:08:47.394
And know people discover you trust providing value.

00:08:47.394 --> 00:08:50.202
And, um, know like and trust, know like trust.

00:08:50.202 --> 00:08:54.272
They know you exist, they like you and they trust you because of the value.

00:08:54.272 --> 00:09:06.091
And you can do that by showing up when you say you're going to, by listening to them and creating content that they're asking for and that, and that's how it happens.

00:09:06.091 --> 00:09:08.062
How do you do it?

00:09:10.309 --> 00:09:13.509
Just that I really enjoy being generous.

00:09:13.509 --> 00:09:17.645
It's kind of weird, I mean, I don't like giving stuff away.

00:09:17.645 --> 00:09:30.347
I mean I do like being fake for my work, but I just really like giving people help, giving them information, trying to, trying to figure out.

00:09:30.347 --> 00:09:35.826
I mean I, I see the whole relationship is like a problem solution one, right like clients have a problem, we have a solution.

00:09:35.826 --> 00:09:36.729
Is there, you know?

00:09:36.729 --> 00:09:37.291
Is there a fit?

00:09:37.291 --> 00:09:37.840
You know?

00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:39.722
Just, is your problem something I want to solve?

00:09:39.722 --> 00:09:45.211
But that happens in that I don't know.

00:09:45.231 --> 00:09:50.169
I kind of think of it as a courtship process, right Like you know, the long-term content process.

00:09:50.169 --> 00:10:01.842
It's like as you're sort of revealing what you believe and how you can help people, people will be drawn to you and I see this and tell me if you do too.

00:10:01.842 --> 00:10:08.374
And there's this moment where there's either a generosity, where you continue helping them, or you pivot like, oh, I want to sell something.

00:10:08.374 --> 00:10:19.368
Right Like, you capture attention and you try and squander that attention almost Right, like, oh, you're paying attention to me, I see dollar signs, I want to sell you something.

00:10:19.368 --> 00:10:23.485
And I think that's a point in a relationship where it's like, let me give you something, let me connect.

00:10:23.485 --> 00:10:25.548
I think that's a point in a relationship where it's like let me give you something, let me connect.

00:10:25.548 --> 00:10:31.147
Let's like well, let's just explore a little bit what's here, and that might not even be in a conversation, it might be still in this.

00:10:31.147 --> 00:10:45.827
You know, in this world of like you know, content, but I think that's the key is is is looking to looking to give and what can you give and how can you be generous and like what is that correct moment of transaction?

00:10:45.827 --> 00:10:50.523
And understanding that and not trying to get there too quickly, like sort of the dating analogies.

00:10:50.523 --> 00:10:57.389
Right, like you don't go out for coffee and ask someone to marry you, like we have what we need to, we have some meals first and like do some other things right.

00:10:57.469 --> 00:11:21.844
So yeah, so no one listening sees me, but I was smiling when you were talking about the courtship thing, because I talk about that all the time, that early stage content like the discovery mechanism, where people find you, it's like a handshake and your job is to make that relationship a little bit more intimate with each interaction.

00:11:21.844 --> 00:11:42.265
So it becomes so much more intimate when you have a podcast, for example, and they're listening to you and you're in their ears and it's a long conversation because maybe they're binging and they're listening to one after the next and then maybe you invite them to a virtual event Like the series.

00:11:42.265 --> 00:11:56.004
How I structure my content is a series of similar topics and then I end it in some sort of virtual event and when you get there it's even more intimate because you have that one-to-one interaction.

00:11:56.004 --> 00:11:58.631
You're asking that person questions, you're seeing their face.

00:11:58.631 --> 00:12:05.509
It's a live thing and that is really intimate experience.

00:12:05.509 --> 00:12:10.342
And then if you can connect one-on-one after that, it's even closer.

00:12:10.342 --> 00:12:16.400
So it is exactly like that, like a courtship and what you were talking about with selling.

00:12:16.660 --> 00:12:23.653
I'm a very passive seller where any sales thing I have is more of a PS.

00:12:23.653 --> 00:12:34.620
I'll create some value and then it'll be like my signature at the bottom of my LinkedIn post that explains what I do, or a PS in an email, or an ad in my podcast.

00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:39.412
But I'm not selling you because I'm just reminding you what I do.

00:12:39.412 --> 00:12:44.269
So when you're ready, you can come to me, but I'm not an active seller.

00:12:45.792 --> 00:12:54.280
And that works great for you, right, doesn't it?

00:12:54.280 --> 00:12:57.269
I mean yeah, and selling, yeah, and I'm guessing I mean like for the type of people that you want to attract.

00:12:57.269 --> 00:12:58.191
I think that's it's really a trap, did, right?

00:12:58.191 --> 00:13:05.532
It's like there are all kinds of ways to access you and find out about you and learn from you without having to spend money.

00:13:05.532 --> 00:13:13.587
So I mean that just makes you feel really good about a person, I mean, if you like what they're saying and what they're saying has value and is meaningful to you.

00:13:13.947 --> 00:13:22.702
Yeah, there's definitely an element of attraction and repelling, because if you're being your authentic self in the content you create, you're not going to be for everyone.

00:13:22.702 --> 00:13:25.912
If you are, then you're not being real.

00:13:25.912 --> 00:13:30.708
You're just boiling it down to this bland version of yourself.

00:13:30.708 --> 00:13:32.173
That's not truly you.

00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.063
No, and then you end up with bad, sick clients.

00:13:35.063 --> 00:13:41.628
Yes, right, because like when you're, when you're you, you attract the people who want to work with you.

00:13:41.628 --> 00:13:50.586
Yeah, sim, you, and so so, like it ends up, it's a much smoother situation from the get-go yeah, it really really is you're.

00:13:52.591 --> 00:14:15.806
If you put on this corporate mask of yourself in in your content and then you're attracting just whoever and they start working with you and they start getting to know the real you, then it might be like they're like no, not for me, but they've only seen this fake version of yourself and you don't want to keep that up.

00:14:15.806 --> 00:14:18.380
That causes a lot of just friction in your body.

00:14:18.380 --> 00:14:23.971
You should be comfortable being yourself and you'll find people who love you for that.

00:14:31.282 --> 00:14:33.385
Yeah, and it's great advice and I think it can be a tricky place to reach.

00:14:33.385 --> 00:14:34.447
It was for me and I don't know.

00:14:34.447 --> 00:14:34.849
Like, how do you?

00:14:34.849 --> 00:14:35.750
What do you recommend?

00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:40.120
Like in terms of I don't know, I like right.

00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.466
Remember the old cliche I'm full of cliches this morning.

00:14:42.466 --> 00:14:46.948
Apparently, sex tells stories sell right, and so like story is it right?

00:14:46.948 --> 00:14:49.096
Like story is what works.

00:14:49.096 --> 00:14:51.942
But how do you do that Like, especially in the B2B space?

00:14:51.942 --> 00:14:52.804
I mean, like what?

00:14:52.804 --> 00:14:54.008
Like?

00:14:54.008 --> 00:14:55.461
Is there a measure of like?

00:14:55.461 --> 00:14:55.884
How?

00:14:55.884 --> 00:14:57.672
And I know if you're talking about like?

00:14:57.672 --> 00:15:00.100
There's authenticity and there's personal story.

00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.027
Well, I think those are one and the same?

00:15:03.634 --> 00:15:13.062
Yeah, that's what I'm asking, like, is there like a line you go up to and don't cross, or do you like, how do you structure that, or do you not think about it in those terms?

00:15:13.697 --> 00:15:15.075
I don't think about it in those terms.

00:15:15.075 --> 00:15:36.067
I think, if you're well one, I'm not going to tell intimate secrets about myself in my business content, if that's what you're asking, because that's a whole different thing but I am going to show my full personality to you and I think that storytelling and telling you about my experiences is one way I can do that.

00:15:39.880 --> 00:15:41.043
Yeah, and that is what I'm asking.

00:15:41.043 --> 00:15:48.163
And I don't think obviously you don't want to share intimate details and there's a boundary and it's business.

00:15:48.163 --> 00:15:54.586
But I'm just wondering, because people ask about that a lot Like, what do you have to do to be authentic?

00:15:54.586 --> 00:15:56.722
Like, do you have to reveal something about yourself?

00:15:56.722 --> 00:16:02.582
And I think it's more like just being who you are, like if you're quirky being who you are.

00:16:02.602 --> 00:16:03.384
That's it right.

00:16:03.384 --> 00:16:04.697
I'm exactly.

00:16:04.697 --> 00:16:05.440
I'm with you.

00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:07.265
I'm on the exact same page.

00:16:07.265 --> 00:16:12.721
I don't think that everyone in the world should know about the details of your personal life.

00:16:12.721 --> 00:16:16.655
That's your own and that is personal, and that's fine.

00:16:16.655 --> 00:16:19.580
I think if you're a weirdo, be a weirdo.

00:16:19.580 --> 00:16:25.027
Be your true personality and feel comfortable with that is what I mean by authenticity.

00:16:25.027 --> 00:16:28.350
You don't have to be vulnerable and share all your dirt.

00:16:29.995 --> 00:16:30.556
Yeah, thank you.

00:16:30.556 --> 00:16:36.726
I wanted to ask about that because I get asked about it all the time and I'm really private as a person, so I don't cross that line.

00:16:36.726 --> 00:16:37.707
I don't want to get personal.

00:16:38.674 --> 00:16:39.336
I don't either.

00:16:39.336 --> 00:16:40.638
It's no one's business.

00:16:43.261 --> 00:16:43.842
Okay, thank you.

00:16:43.842 --> 00:16:45.706
Thank you for clarifying.

00:16:45.905 --> 00:16:46.586
I am with you.

00:16:46.586 --> 00:16:48.328
We are on the same page there.

00:16:48.328 --> 00:16:56.956
Okay, brilliant, thank you.

00:16:56.956 --> 00:17:02.666
Okay, so we're attracting the right clients through the lead generation process and, through that no like trust process, creating our content.

00:17:02.666 --> 00:17:05.817
That's how we're getting the right clients in the door.

00:17:05.817 --> 00:17:07.821
What is next?

00:17:07.821 --> 00:17:08.903
Now they are clients?

00:17:08.903 --> 00:17:13.157
How do we increase the lifetime value of that experience with them?

00:17:14.540 --> 00:17:22.623
So, interestingly, I think it's kind of in the lead process, but maybe the post-lead process a little bit, um.

00:17:22.623 --> 00:17:35.959
So I think inside of those the discovery call, like right from when you start initially, you're looking to uncover more than just the project, right, you're really looking to like like well, I'll ask somebody like you know, why are you here?

00:17:35.959 --> 00:17:37.446
Like what's the genesis of the call?

00:17:37.446 --> 00:17:43.115
Like what, like there's something going on if they're looking to hire somebody to help them in their business.

00:17:43.115 --> 00:17:49.460
And so when you start to uncover all of those things, like they may be saying you know, there's all these things that need to happen.

00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:53.400
Right now I'm looking to do X, right, and that's why we're in this, in this conversation.

00:17:53.400 --> 00:18:07.435
But usually inside of X and inside of this bigger picture that they want, there are things that could look like longer term not longer term contract, but like ongoing projects let's put it that way and so.

00:18:07.435 --> 00:18:18.978
But you don't want to be like, you don't want to jump in like all excited, like oh, I see a million things I can do for you, like you want to stay on point, but you want to mentally note that there are other things that they want and that there are other things that you could do.

00:18:18.978 --> 00:18:20.378
So that's one piece.

00:18:20.378 --> 00:18:25.763
It's like what's going to serve people best long-term and what fits with what they need right now.

00:18:25.763 --> 00:18:31.509
And how can you, you know, can you think about the two and can you talk about the two, and when is that appropriate?

00:18:31.829 --> 00:18:48.303
So I think that's one thing and I think the other thing is, I think a lot of contractors tend to like do the thing and leave, and I think there's a lot of opportunity to follow up as part of the project and depending on what you do, of course.

00:18:48.303 --> 00:18:54.042
But there's always like opportunity to optimize, like to improve or to tweak, or to see, like how something is performing.

00:18:54.042 --> 00:19:05.845
And you know, what I would do is try to say, like, as a copywriter, I would say, okay, I'm going to write this copy, you're going to have paid me, the project's going to have ended, but then your designer's going to get it live.

00:19:05.845 --> 00:19:12.682
And at that point I want to come back and like preserve the right to improve things, right, which nobody is going to object to, right?

00:19:12.682 --> 00:19:14.259
Oh, I've already paid you and you want to do?

00:19:14.280 --> 00:19:39.396
work for me Great Super, but for me that's been a real like I don't know gateway is the word that's popping into my mind to up to bigger projects and to other projects longer term, um, like looking at what needs to be done and and it's not saying that my work isn't good, my work needs to be redone, but but it might.

00:19:39.396 --> 00:19:41.820
It might need to be redone, it might need to be changed.

00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:43.544
We might learn things from.

00:19:43.544 --> 00:19:51.806
You know the three months that they've implemented what we've been working on and now we say, hey, let's push these levers and let's do this and this and that.

00:19:51.806 --> 00:19:52.106
So I think.

00:19:52.434 --> 00:19:57.777
But a lot of people leave, and I don't think it's because they don't want to continue working or don't want to continue helping the client.

00:19:57.777 --> 00:19:59.859
They think it's like okay, here's the project.

00:19:59.859 --> 00:20:02.804
It starts today, it ends at Z, z happened, I'm out, see ya.

00:20:02.804 --> 00:20:11.997
And they don't realize that they can offer sort of follow through, I mean whether it's I mean sometimes follow through is paid, sometimes it isn't, but it should always be there.

00:20:11.997 --> 00:20:17.858
I think that there should be that follow up and that feeling of continuity which also makes people feel really taken care of.

00:20:17.858 --> 00:20:24.920
It's really it's very comforting for them to know you're not abandoning them when the you know when, when you get your last payment.

00:20:25.662 --> 00:20:33.355
I cannot tell you how many people um ask me that straight up Like but when this project's done, how can I continue working with you?

00:20:33.355 --> 00:20:34.238
Don't abandon me.

00:20:34.238 --> 00:20:37.848
And I get it, because they're not marketers.

00:20:37.848 --> 00:20:43.566
They like if something goes wrong or it needs optimized or we need to audit it down the line.

00:20:43.566 --> 00:20:48.002
They don't want to do that, that's not their thing.

00:20:49.786 --> 00:20:51.449
But I'm going to reiterate what you said.

00:20:52.896 --> 00:21:23.917
So, to start off, I always recommend that founders have some sort of gateway offer that's high value, low cost, and this is the perfect place to have an audit of whatever it is the thing that you do a report, a brief, a strategy To have that first, where you're digging into the business and you're discovering all of what they would need in order to reach their goals.

00:21:23.917 --> 00:21:30.276
Do that first and then you can start planning out what that first project looks like.

00:21:30.276 --> 00:21:38.259
You'll know exactly what projects you can pitch later on when it would matter to them, when it would make sense for them in that season of business.

00:21:38.259 --> 00:21:54.960
And then the second part of what you said would be to schedule ongoing audits or optimizations with that client, maybe once a quarter, where you can hop back in that business and you can really support them ongoing.

00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.201
You build so much trust.

00:21:57.201 --> 00:22:07.862
That way they know they can rely on you and that you're not just you know saying learn to swim and letting them flounder out in the ocean.

00:22:09.904 --> 00:22:22.575
It's so true, and you know it's interesting too because and tell me a few experiences too like the audit is so useful because often nobody knows what's needed right, like the client shows up and they know an end result that they want, and sometimes they even, they think like here's how right, like the client should stop and they know an end result that they want.

00:22:22.714 --> 00:22:28.604
And sometimes they even they think like here's how, here's what I want to fire you for this particular thing, to get to this end result.

00:22:29.057 --> 00:22:36.059
But the particular thing isn't always the thing right, like they may have seen something in the wild that's working for someone else, but they don't really know the full picture.

00:22:36.556 --> 00:22:42.868
So, like there's some analysis that needs to be done to even figure out, like what's going to solve the problem best.

00:22:42.868 --> 00:22:48.426
And I think sometimes people they can't, they're not allowed to swim in that messy piece.

00:22:48.426 --> 00:22:59.758
Like if someone comes to them and they want something, I feel like the, the provider almost feels like, oh well, I should know what it is and I should just be able like, okay, you know, here's x, y and z and that'll solve the problem.

00:22:59.758 --> 00:23:07.263
And sometimes you need to get in there and dig around, see, like what do they have and what's been working and why has it been working and how long has it been working or not working works.

00:23:07.263 --> 00:23:18.557
And by doing that you can actually come up with a better project scope that's going to serve the client better, because otherwise you risk getting in there and going oh, geez, geez.

00:23:18.557 --> 00:23:28.171
I wish I had known this at the outset, because we really should maybe go here before we go there, and so it can really benefit those parties to get in there and dig around.

00:23:29.055 --> 00:23:30.660
Absolutely, absolutely.

00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:46.523
Having that type of gateway offer does so much for you because you'll understand the full scope of what they need and plan it out appropriately, and your client won't be disappointed when they're like this didn't solve my problem.

00:23:46.523 --> 00:24:06.876
The thing that I thought would solve my problem didn't solve it, because that's really the difference between a freelancer and a business is a freelancer is given the to-dos, where a business owner takes the reins and is the expert and they're hired to find the, to find the problem and fix it 100%.

00:24:06.916 --> 00:24:12.881
I mean I call it the difference between the order taker and the expert, exactly, exactly, and that's yeah.

00:24:12.881 --> 00:24:34.886
And you know it's interesting, like you said very early in the episode, you said something about like being reliable, and it's so fascinating to me how many people aren't like aren't reliable and don't show up and like take really good care of people, like if you do those things, you really really stand out and it's funny because it's a layer of expertise that I think people don't think about.

00:24:34.886 --> 00:24:48.268
We tend to think more about like our craft and the service we offer, but like the customer service and the taking care of people and being reliable, I mean that's like that elevates you into an expert status in another way that really commands more money.

00:24:48.268 --> 00:24:50.981
It's like yeah.

00:24:52.615 --> 00:25:12.605
And it will attract them to that increased lifetime value, because I'm sure we've all heard it a million times that people remember how you made them feel and if you're providing an amazing experience, they're going to remember that you made them feel good, you helped them and they will want to work with you again.

00:25:14.036 --> 00:25:21.886
Yeah, and some of that comes from like just being, like taking the time right to talk to them and like unearth problems and be willing to have conversation.

00:25:21.886 --> 00:25:33.317
Like, for example, I was saying earlier like some of these things will surface in the discovery call and there's so much stuff out there about like you have to keep your discovery call to 15 or 20 minutes and I'm like why, like, how do you you know?

00:25:33.317 --> 00:25:34.963
Like, why not an hour?

00:25:34.963 --> 00:25:35.536
Why not?

00:25:35.536 --> 00:25:39.902
Like give people all, like give people ideas, give them some of your best stuff.

00:25:39.902 --> 00:25:41.904
Like show them how this problem could get solved.

00:25:41.904 --> 00:25:46.290
Like why, if they're willing to have a conversation with you, it'd open up about their business.

00:25:46.290 --> 00:25:53.798
Like oh sorry, geez, we've been 15 minutes, got to wrap.

00:25:53.817 --> 00:26:08.538
I know people that do that because that's what they've been taught, and so I think I think part of like what we're talking about here is like like it's a relationship, right, it's an organic process, it's a way of like getting to know someone and take care of them, and it really matters.

00:26:08.538 --> 00:26:15.979
I think inside the business relationship it's so big that taking care, that being reliable, showing up, I don't know why that's so hard to do.

00:26:15.979 --> 00:26:19.366
They seem like basic things, right, they do to me?

00:26:19.366 --> 00:26:19.788
I don't know.

00:26:19.894 --> 00:26:20.635
They really do.

00:26:20.635 --> 00:26:40.218
But you're right, I have hired enough contractors where I've realized oh, not everybody does what they say they're going to do, and being able to do that makes you stand out from the crowd which is it really does.

00:26:40.258 --> 00:26:40.862
I mean shockingly, I don't know.

00:26:40.862 --> 00:26:41.444
I mean I've hired tons like.

00:26:41.444 --> 00:26:42.770
There's two people like I thought were like really professional.

00:26:42.770 --> 00:26:52.269
It turns out that they weren't like inside of a project, they just they left me hanging, they didn't tell me what was going on, they ghosted, they all kinds of stuff and it's like stuff.

00:26:52.269 --> 00:26:54.035
That's really, anyway, I guess what we're talking about.

00:26:54.035 --> 00:27:01.978
But it's really easy not to do, to not do that stuff and just be reliable, be generous, be courteous, show up, be gracious, give.

00:27:01.978 --> 00:27:07.760
It's like you get so much from that and I know maybe you have to be wired that way, maybe you have to like doing that.

00:27:07.760 --> 00:27:09.866
I guess you could learn to like doing that, couldn't you?

00:27:10.694 --> 00:27:12.982
You could If you wanted to have a business that's successful.

00:27:12.982 --> 00:27:13.965
You could learn to like it.

00:27:13.965 --> 00:27:22.269
I would say the point of this tangent we're on is that it is not hard to be amazing.

00:27:22.269 --> 00:27:27.226
All you have to do is do what you say you will do.

00:27:27.226 --> 00:27:30.923
That is what's going to earn the trust.

00:27:30.923 --> 00:27:36.406
So we're coming up on time and I want to reiterate where we've gone so far.

00:27:37.194 --> 00:27:59.665
So, in order to increase that lifetime value for our client, it all starts in that lead generation part where we're earning trust with them, and that starts with giving them value without asking for anything in return, and building that relationship, making it a little bit more intimate with every step of the way.

00:28:00.494 --> 00:28:31.226
And then, once you've gotten onto that discovery call phase and that selling process giving them the space to be able to talk about their problems and let you be the expert and help solve those issues Move into some sort of gateway offer where you're doing an audit, you're doing a strategy, you're doing a brief, where you're uncovering all of the problems and you're finding the solutions for them.

00:28:31.226 --> 00:28:42.038
So you know what projects need to happen in order to get to that end goal that the client really has, in order to get to that end goal that the client really has.

00:28:42.038 --> 00:28:47.349
And then the last piece of it is to schedule regular audits or optimizations with your past client.

00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:55.412
So you have a reason to continue adding value, continuing that relationship driving value.

00:28:55.412 --> 00:29:01.940
And those are also points where you can say, well, we identified this project during the initial audit.

00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:05.047
This is a perfect time to do that, based off of X, y, z.

00:29:05.047 --> 00:29:09.284
So those are all great ways to increase the lifetime value.

00:29:09.284 --> 00:29:10.748
Is there anything that I missed?

00:29:12.634 --> 00:29:13.476
I don't think so.

00:29:13.476 --> 00:29:15.858
You captured it remarkably well.

00:29:15.858 --> 00:29:17.901
You have like an amazing memory.

00:29:17.901 --> 00:29:18.340
I don't know.

00:29:23.207 --> 00:29:25.368
I've been interviewing people for four years now.

00:29:25.368 --> 00:29:27.131
I've gotten skilled at this.

00:29:27.790 --> 00:29:31.219
Yeah, really good.

00:29:31.219 --> 00:29:48.044
Yeah, I mean I know I think you, I think you've covered all the points and I think I think, like what circles around all of it is like is like be generous and be yourself and be willing to be in conversations with people and build relationships, and I guess what that means is don't be so transactional.

00:29:48.645 --> 00:29:51.221
Yeah, yeah, that's a great way to put it.

00:29:51.221 --> 00:29:58.842
Like the beginning, like that A point that you talked about it was like A to Z and now I'm done.

00:29:58.842 --> 00:30:01.325
Beginning like that, a point that you talked about it was like A to Z and now I'm done.

00:30:01.325 --> 00:30:05.451
That's a transactional relationship where what you just described, that increases the lifetime value.

00:30:05.451 --> 00:30:17.542
That is an ongoing relationship where you're continuing and it's not just a add to cart situation.

00:30:18.284 --> 00:30:27.720
It's a real relationship, yeah, and I think it's really important for people to hear too, because I think they need to be given permission to give the full experience to people sometimes, or to know what that is.

00:30:28.622 --> 00:30:54.076
Yeah, you're right, because a lot of the experts, the voices out there, say you need to keep it transactional, because you need to control the amount of time that you're spending, you need to make sure that you're optimizing your processes, and you do need to do all of those things, but do it within reason so you're not discounting the relationship building aspect of your work.

00:30:54.115 --> 00:30:59.377
And you know, interestingly, there's monetary value there, your work, and you know, and you know interestingly, there's monetary value there too.

00:30:59.377 --> 00:31:07.602
I mean, people will pay really well to be well taken care of and so don't forget that, like that time spent, you do get paid for.

00:31:07.602 --> 00:31:15.306
Right, you don't get paid for it like immediately and it's not directly linked to that like particular activity, but you can bake it all in.

00:31:15.306 --> 00:31:22.368
I mean, you can bake into your pricing the ability to give excellent service and spend the time Absolutely.

00:31:22.449 --> 00:31:31.053
That's a great point to bring up, that it might feel like you're giving, you're giving, you're giving, you're giving without any return.

00:31:31.053 --> 00:31:37.911
But people do pay for a better experience.

00:31:37.911 --> 00:31:38.174
I know I do.

00:31:38.174 --> 00:31:41.484
I have contractors that I absolutely adore.

00:31:41.484 --> 00:31:51.064
They gave me the best experience possible and I know that I am paying a little bit more for them than I would for someone else, and that is fine by me.

00:31:51.967 --> 00:31:57.140
Oh, it is so worth it, and it is worth every single half penny even.

00:31:58.321 --> 00:32:00.445
It just is Absolutely I agree with you.

00:32:00.445 --> 00:32:01.166
I agree with you.

00:32:01.166 --> 00:32:07.287
So how can people work with you and where do you spend your time online if they want to follow you?

00:32:08.415 --> 00:32:09.119
I'm on LinkedIn.

00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:12.035
You can find me on LinkedIn as a business growth mentor.

00:32:12.035 --> 00:32:14.479
My site is amyposnercom.

00:32:14.479 --> 00:32:24.442
I have a five-day email drip course about identifying your ideal clients, and I think a lot of it starts there.

00:32:24.442 --> 00:32:58.358
It's like if you know who you're a fit for, all of the stuff that we've talked about just happens way more easily, and so that's what I'm about the business side of the creatives, the creative business people or people who are you know, who are working digitally, and I'm helping them to sort out this business stuff so that they can eat better because, like, as we've been talking about, this is what makes this is what makes the relationship is, and this is what makes your business is having the business skills and be able to lay some of these other things over.

00:32:58.358 --> 00:32:59.923
So, anyway, that's what I'm about.

00:32:59.923 --> 00:33:00.806
That's where you can find me.

00:33:02.355 --> 00:33:07.403
You are absolutely correct right there.

00:33:07.403 --> 00:33:14.064
Creative businesses Can you just tell us real quick what kind of creative businesses you're working with?

00:33:15.435 --> 00:33:20.996
I work with a lot of people who are working strictly digitally, so it could be.

00:33:20.996 --> 00:33:36.280
It could be copywriters, web designers, web coders, and actually I do work with other people like photographers or people who are working in the creative space that you know, where it's more or are right they actually have to stuff.

00:33:37.284 --> 00:33:40.797
Yeah, but pretty pretty much anyone who's running a small business.

00:33:40.797 --> 00:33:46.625
All of these things apply, and a lot of these people happen to be freelance just because of the economy and the nature of the current beast.

00:33:46.625 --> 00:33:50.297
But yeah, it's anyone running a small to medium-sized business.

00:33:51.519 --> 00:34:17.474
Yeah, I will put these links in the show notes and absolutely take her up on that drip course, because she is absolutely correct that finding your dream client, who you can serve best and who would have the best transformation from the offer that you have, makes all the difference in the world, and it should be your guiding light for all of the content you create, your messaging, absolutely everything.

00:34:17.474 --> 00:34:18.378
It's so important.

00:34:18.378 --> 00:34:20.436
Thank you for joining me today.

00:34:20.436 --> 00:34:35.137
Before I say goodbye, I just wanted to remind you that I am hosting a workshop on May 22nd at 12 pm, central Time, where I will teach you how to create the perfect one-liner for your business.

00:34:35.137 --> 00:34:41.237
It's going to be quick and easy and you will have your actual one-liner by the end of the session.

00:34:41.237 --> 00:34:49.443
So the session itself should be about 30 minutes and, for anyone who wants to stick around, we'll do a little networking for 15 minutes afterwards.

00:34:49.443 --> 00:35:05.101
No obligations, but make sure to go down to the show notes page and sign up for that workshop May 22nd, and if you can't show up live which would definitely be better because we're actually going to be doing the work during the session you will get the recording though.

00:35:05.101 --> 00:35:07.742
All right, now to the outro.

00:35:07.742 --> 00:35:11.181
That wraps up that.

00:35:11.181 --> 00:35:19.706
I hope that you got a ton out of my conversation with Amy To reiterate what you should walk away from this with.

00:35:20.306 --> 00:35:26.342
You want to start in the lead generation process with priming the relationship with them.

00:35:26.342 --> 00:35:36.349
You want that relationship to be more intimate and you can do that through creating content, and that no like trust factor will happen with time.

00:35:36.349 --> 00:35:56.358
Next, when you're working with a client, start off with a gateway offer that builds trust, and this should be something like a strategy, an audit, a report, a way that you can gather all of the information you need about their business and help them build a strategy to reach their goals.

00:35:56.358 --> 00:36:07.407
So you know what projects make sense and you know the entire scope of what they need, from the get-go Last, once your project is complete.

00:36:07.407 --> 00:36:15.548
You want to have these little touch points throughout the year and include that as part of your package.

00:36:15.548 --> 00:36:28.523
So have quarterly audits, quarterly optimization sessions, something that will keep the relationship going, where you can bring up these other projects that came up during the gateway offer.

00:36:28.523 --> 00:36:38.324
So these are some simple, simple ways that you can increase the lifetime value you have with your client, and you can implement them today.

00:36:38.324 --> 00:36:39.599
That's how easy they are.

00:36:40.195 --> 00:36:41.998
So if you enjoyed this episode.

00:36:41.998 --> 00:37:01.833
Please like, subscribe, share with a friend, just like I'll sit here right now while you hit that share button and share with someone who could really use this advice and increase the income they're making from those hard-earned new clients the income they're making from those hard-earned new clients.

00:37:01.833 --> 00:37:08.974
Before you go, if you haven't noticed, there's a new feature on the Tiny Marketing Pod where you can click in the show notes and text me.

00:37:08.974 --> 00:37:20.224
I won't have your number, but you can text me questions that came up during the episode, your comments, your topic preferences, whatever.

00:37:20.224 --> 00:37:32.925
But go down to the show notes page and you will find that click to text and you'll be able to reach me and let me know what you want from this show.

Ep. 74: Three steps to increase customer lifetime value | Expert Guest: Amy Posner

Listen On

Recent Episodes