Escaping The Odds: 2nd Chances For The Formerly Incarcerated! Feat. Aaron Smith

Authentic leadership podcast. A podcast, we're seeking to lead change, we're also seeking to understand we're also have a platform for leaders to come together to unite, to develop with other leaders in the areas of business, family and entrepreneurship. I am your host. Lafayette Lane, Joined by my co-host John LeBrun. Today, we are joined by our special guest, Aaron Smith. Put those hands together, put those clap emoji's in the comments section. Aaron has joined us to have an amazing conversation today on how you can escape the odds. Aaron is the founder of the Escape the Odds podcast, and he inspires to empower the formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged to reach their full potential through entrepreneurship. Aaron, thanks for coming on. Hey, man, thank you all for both for having me. I'm really excited about it. Yeah, let's let's get it going. Absolutely. Let's just jump right into your story, man. I think you have an amazing story of the fiber of our podcast is leadership, entrepreneurship and personal development. And we believe that everybody has a story, right? Everybody has a story that can empower someone that can uplift someone and that can really encourage someone that may think that what they've been through, there's no way out of it. There was no way up from where they are. And I believe that you are a prime example of someone that literally like your podcast says, that has escaped the odds. Can you just give our our audience your background story? We know that you are a great entrepreneur now, but take us back to how you got to the where the place that you are today? No, absolutely. And I think I think I was a pretty good entrepreneur back then. I was just selling the wrong product, you know? Yeah, yeah. You know, selling more products like this would help with all that. What were born and raised on the south side of Chicago, gangs of the normal kind of stuff. But it was something different about me. Always value education and want to be able to want to do something different for what I see in my community. All of the other five very ambitious guy. And I think that was part of my downfall like ambition was was driven in the wrong direction. And so end up going to college. And I just kind of fast forward going to college with one foot in, one foot out in the street, but also going to college at the same time that I knew the value of education, but also was lured in by the, you know, fast cash and just wanting to get things quicker. You know, that immediate gratification is so and they'll going to federal prison. Not too long after I got my bachelor's degree in business management from running a heroin operation here in Chicago. I was one of like 4647 people indicted federally. I was like my first case ever hassle. So misdemeanors, internet with nothing, nothing major to that magnitude that really kind of opened my eyes and it should have, you know, what's the state of the United States person? Aaron Smith? I'm like, Wow, you know, on this list beefed up. So eventually subsequently pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to distribute heroin and fentanyl. And that was in late 2009, and I was 27 years old when I went away. I got sent to twelve years of incarceration in federal system. I did a little bit over nine and a half years, and I came home in 2019, went to renew my mother's eyes of a change, but I wasn't a bad person. This made a whole lot of bad decisions. You know, I was trying to chase fast money and with that kind of consequences that I had to have to face up to, you know? And so I did that. But that's pretty much the the root of it at the end of the day. And here I am. An escape in arts and entrepreneurship is my passion in prison reform, my passion. So being able to blend those two together and make it work. Yeah, you said something there that I really want you to kind of dig into. All right. Before you got out, you said you were able to renew your mind. You had a shift in mind. What happened? Why you were in prison while you were incarcerated, that you were able to do not a 360, but a 180? Want to know? Absolutely, for sure. Well, yeah, I believe it was more so even prior to me being incarcerated. I was on bond for a while, so I had the chance to kind of narrow my ways like see how it affect most of all, like my mom, not even myself, you know, because I kind of knew that day was this day was inevitable. You know what I mean? Like, we don't sell drugs at that level. And you know, you get away with it right now, most people. And so I'm like, Man, you know, are really sold myself short. You know, here I am a person with a bachelor's degree in business management. You know, like, you know, I'm indicted federally. You don't I'm I could have did something else with my time, you know what I mean? But so this kind of really got to my word, really heavy. You can just dodge the idea. Speak with somebody like, Man, you know, it's not over. Although I had to convince myself that it wasn't over, right? Because here I am looking at this, this amount of time that I have to do and just kind of really figuring out how want to get through it. And I would never want to do like this. My first time going away to prison, I knew I was going to prison. I just didn't know for how long. And so but once I got to prison? I really built on my network behind the wall. I really started kind of built it with man that was like and such as myself and like all of the Christian faith. And so again, to see an error of my ways and like, man, you know what? I'm going to be so much better, you know? And so with that, I really dig deep and find a soul searching. Find out who I was. And I'm going to tell, you know, entrepreneurship, like always been in love with business, you know? And so I have the opportunity to meet a lot of men and were incarcerated with white collar first offenders or even ill with quote unquote successful in their illicit activities. And so I kind of just started picking their brain more sort of white collar guys because I had never really been in the same role with these men. And I really helped change the trajectory of my life. But most of all, it was my faith in God. So you were in you're incarcerated for, is it twelve years? No, not nine years and five months, almost nine and a half years, nine years and five months. You had that down. Okay, that's still that's a long time. I mean, I think one month would feel like a really long time. Right? nine years in. ten months. Okay. Can you walk us through like, what is it like? Spending that much time in prison and then all of a sudden you get released and you're expected to sort of contribute like you, me, I feel like you would almost. To me, if you ever spend a whole day or two days in the house and then you walk out and it's bright and sunny and you're like, Wow, it's a whole new world out here. I feel like I'm not saying you're inside that long, but I almost feel like it's a similar feeling must come about you when you're in a prison, Nelson. All right, peace out. And you're like, Well, now what do I do? Yes. Can you walk us through that? Yes, it's a culture shock, for sure. Technology had changed so much, and you got to think when I went inside, Facebook was around what? It wasn't a part of everyday life. Wow. Cell phones were around. Well, again, you didn't, you know, walk around like they didn't have like a smart home, so yeah, your whole life will interact happened to yourself on as it is now. And so that was a really big adjustment for me. But I think, more importantly, like. Just being a would like to have that confidence in yourself, like I had a whole lot of hope, like my faith in God gave me a whole lot of hope and I prepare so much when I was away, like from day one, I was thinking about the last day, you know what I mean? It's all really meaningful, but I think my situation may have been a little different from other people that I've encountered, you know, mean, because I was so prepared. So using that ambition that I had to say, OK, I will make something of myself, right? But at the same time, there's still that self doubt that you have, like, mean, you know, when I get out, you know, you have an anxiety, you know, like you for someone, it really prepared. And I was probably looked at as a model or model image. You know, I was I was most likely to succeed, you know, if there was a category for someone who was in prison, but still nevertheless, it was still that preparation in that in that culture shock that I had to overcome. And just even just being, to be honest, being scared that, you know, all my plans wouldn't materialize as I thought they would. But I thought they should. You know, you have to find out what it costs, whether I was planning planning for. So yeah, it was it was really, for the most part, that culture shock, just being able to believe in yourself and then know to take your time and be patient. And it's something I still learn to stay. The reason I ask is, and you have a podcast, right, escaping the Earth, is that correct? And in your most recent episode, you interviewed a man named Richard Branson. Not Branson Branson, who was a partner. If anybody's seen the movie Wolf of Wall Street, he was one of the partners in that whole dilemma. And I've never seen the whole movie. I'm very honest. I saw five minutes. I turned it off as a little much. But um, but he mentioned coming out of the out of prison, homeless and so on. And so that's what that's what brought the question in mind. He came out of homelessness out of there. And he was homeless, right to start saying because now he's doing well. But it took several years to get there. And he was only in, I think, a couple of years you were in, you're in nine. And so now 20, 75%, he said of the inmates return to prison, which is a huge number. So you're saying you're a part of that model? 25. They said he'll probably be fine once he gets done. Yeah. What? What is it we're missing about then? 75%, like if we could even flip it to a 25% return and 75% were now productive members of society chasing their dreams. Like, what are we missing here? That's why I ask, Can you walk us through this step when you first get out? What does that feel like? For him, it was homeless and I could see how. Yeah, they couldn't they go? And this is what I know how to do. I need to go back to it because I have to survive with the struggle. Yeah, I think there's a couple of things. one thing is the person, right? And totally like wanting to do something different, as you stated, like for some people, this is all they did their whole life for me. This wasn't all I did my whole life. You know, I mean, like again, I went to college, so I knew how to maneuver in any kind of environment. Like some people that were like the streets, that's what they know, like they're not going to. So I'm not going to do anything different. So to expect someone to change their stripes like instantly without any kind of assistance while they are inside. It's like you ask a recipe for disaster. Let's keep it real. I mean, it's not really going to materialize when our person so often I see people on one hand, not really prepare to leave. Everybody is ready to go with everybody not prepared to go, you know? And so I've seen that. But it also seemed far from a systemic standpoint like that, like the horses in the rehabilitation of quote unquote, is not there, you know? But we do not say where people come on, have a great support network. That's another key piece of right. I had a great supporting cast. You know, a lot of safety net, if you will, was like outstanding, you know, and I think that's very important. I was just thinking when I was in, I will always love support that I was with, even if I didn't have that like, it would be that much more difficult to survive it. I may have become part of that 75% or that 60%, whatever that recidivism rate number is. So I would say to me two things is a pause. It's entirely that person wanting to do something differently and to like that support network that you have. Once you leave that, you have that. I think that's really good. I just to add on to that, Erin and John, that's an excellent question that you ask, John. I think thirdly, you talked about the systemic piece is hard for someone not to go back to jail because they can't get a job if you have a record, a felony. So if you have a felony in a felony can be, you know, from marijuana or whatever that, you know, smallest the biggest from one mistake. They have a mark on their life for the rest of their life due to the systemic structure of prison. Now we're talking about prison pipeline, how prison is a business and that all stems from leadership, right? So how can that you talk about flipping from the 75% to 25%? How can they flip it when the only resort they can go back to is going back to the streets because there's nothing for them to go to when they get out? Right? Absolutely. Yes, sir. Y'all scared to. All right, now, you're good. OK, so so I'm currently reading a book by Emanuel also acho uncommon, uncomfortable conversations with a black man and he's talking. I was reading yesterday about this same issue, about the prison pipeline and the industry, and so flipping that would be great. But it all really goes back to changing the system. Yes, it is. And it's not. I think it's amazing and I hope our audience catches. You were a college degree inmate. Yes, because I think we have this misconception. But everybody that's in prison in the dorm. Yeah, they're from the hood or they're black and all of these students. When you really don't realize that a lot of people that are in prison are a lot smarter than everybody that's out there. Yeah. I didn't want to say it, man. When you said, Well, yeah, well, no. I mean, I've met some of the most creative. And just know, guys, it oh, this day, like some of my best buddies, accidental like brothers of mine. And I really want 11 area that I really learned a lot about with the financial markets. This is just an example of like learning. The high finance behind wall rationalist in college, where I didn't write, I didn't take a course, optional investment banking and things, and then I was a bit afraid to write. I learned that from the man there were the white collar offender, the CEOs that embezzled $100 million, right? That was my school of hard knocks, right? So to speak to the mindset of some of the people that were there like they were. They were brilliant, you know, just that, you know, they they made the wrong decision. I think we all. Are fallible. You know what I mean, like, we all can fall short. You know what I mean? So let us not judge. No doubt there are also people that there needs to be there. You don't we at all the time, right? What the man that I came across and dealt with in my circle like I would trust over my lives, like you guys have a conversation with them as you have what we read today in previous time. Like, you never know that they have been incarcerated, right? If I was with 20, 25 years incarcerated and so I would love for all this to kind of know that just to kind of think twice about who you think is behind that wall. And as I continue to do my part and escape escaping a slight. I know I knew the stories are out there because all this, all these men, right? But when I was inside, I got to get these stories out. That was one of the main reasons why I did the POC, and I wanted to change the narrative of what society thought of a person that was incarcerated and what they can become in the entrepreneurship arena. And because I know these male entrepreneurs at heart, you know, someone would go on a legal thing with all the legal things, but it ended day. They were dynamic people. You know what I mean? I want to, I could tell, continue to do these stories. I come across like amazing people. I'm like, Man, where you been like, you know, how come your story isn't out there? And so I hope with a statement by change that like people were like, Wow, did you hear a story of said such, you know, and having got the story from Slipknot. So yeah. Absolutely, I think that that's so good because. Not allowing your mistake to define you, not allowing your pastor to find you here, it is not allowing your record or what people deem as a record to define you because again, it's very hard that we say prison is a rehabilitation place and there's no place for the prisoners to go once their release. Yes, because of systemic issues that we as a nation. So it starts at the root, right? Prison for those that don't know, is one of the wealthiest businesses in the world. Yeah. It is not a place that why do you think they're so overpopulated because they're privately owned and a lot of people you talk about white collar . There's a lot of white collar investors. Absolutely. So they have prison pipelines and things of that nature. No, that's that's a whole nother show. And I'm not I don't think you're right. I don't know. It's not like what I'm saying. What I said is facts is absolutely the prison industrial complex. You know this? Absolutely. It goes deep. Some of your biggest corporations and retailers are inside prisons, you know, low wage slave labor type. It gets crazy. So yeah, make license plates claim that. I think license plates were kind of like the old school stuff from like the seventies. But but you have some of your biggest names out there. It's like people are actually manufacturing clothing, call centers. Call centers are behind a wall now, right? So a person that you will be speaking to about your local whatever cable bill, whatever they be, could be someone behind the wall, right? And they're not getting paid. Those same wages that are so are being paid on house, but also light and don't know what the defense would like to kind of give. So who knows? There are some corporations out companies out there that are really going inside the prison, like really doing some great work. Have a good friend. one friend of mine's like a mentor, Mr Sean Haas, where we have an organization called Persevere Now, where he teaches full, is that coding inside of several areas of the country . And so you have people like him, organizations like that that are really rehabbing or really giving men and women a second opportunity or third opportunity to be able to have a skill set when they come out that they now part of the city. And so I want to shut off other people's work. Yeah. No, absolutely. But that's the minority, though unfortunately, right? Right. We got a long way to go local because if I'm mistaken and unless I'm mistaken, the felony sticks with you forever. Is that right? He never does. In most cases, in most cases, my cases are a federal case. So in order for me to have my case expunged, as you can in a state system, I'll have to get a part in like from the president. Yeah, that was. Good luck. Well, when I heard that, I felt like the only way I'll work on it, but I will hold my breath. Yes, I used to work at a warehouse when I first got out of college and the the person who ran it, her husband. I didn't know this for about three or four years into it. Then he's late mid to late sixties at the time, and he had told me once that he had a felon and basically he was 18. He was dating a girl who was 17. They decided her dad was a police officer and they decided that they were in love and he didn't want them to date. So he said, We're going, let's go to I hear you. I hear you can get married in West Virginia. So just being kind of stupid. They went to West Virginia. They got there. This is decades ago. And he was, I think I said, he's 18. If so, so you're talking 40 years had passed and 45 and he still had this on his record and basically he got in trouble. He got a felon is connected, found for kidnaping. Right. And taking someone or kidnaping across state lines, which is a big no. No. But it didn't. They think everything has a certain perspective or a more of a story behind it. Besides, hey, he kidnaped somebody took her across state lines. He didn't come and take somebody five years old and just leave, right? And so that sticks to and that's with him forever. He can't get rid of it unless you like. As you say, he gets a pardon. He's ever tried to the nice. I'm telling you the nicest person in the world. It's not like he didn't. He's never done anything wrong before that after that. And anytime he gets a job, he asks that he's a counselor and they usually like, but you know, he works and he makes it makes it work. But he'll never make more than 20 bucks for everything. What is it like when employers actually look up your? Now you look at a case where they see this X on your record, when they do the background check and now looking at the context of that situation like us right of consumers, right? It's like saying, OK, it was HBO. So until you went across state line, all they're going to see is kidnaping. They're not going to actually quash the automatic thinking in a head or five-year-old kid kidnap like this devious person. Right? And so that's that that's the problem with one of the problems with the system. That's like it's not going to go deep so that it kind of see what was actual detail of the case. Because in most cases, like, you know, it's easier not to and from the employer's perspective, I get it. They have 17 applicants and they have to look at them and pick five to come in for an interview, right? So they're going to they're going to filter that pretty quickly. But there has to be a way for somebody to almost self filter themselves or clean their own record. But it's sometimes it's just not possible. And so I think just from that one mistake at 18 years old, it's like, good luck the rest of your life because you messed up when you're 18 and your brain wasn't fully developed. You get what I'm saying. It's ready. So what are, if you don't mind me asking, so what are some you talked about, some in prison? There's sort of a quote unquote rehabilitation process to kind of. Get back to where you're at. You mentioned something like not every every night, everyone's prepares for their release. Right? So when I think about that, I think, OK, let's say someone else was in for five to ten years. There's a lot of time to kind of think about, even if they go in with bad thinking. Let's say not everybody was like you who had a college degree great support unit. Obviously, it was almost like two lives, right? You got you got Aaron, who is the Bachelor degree, and then Aaron, who's got this side hustle. That's a little shady, right? And and a lot of guys. Yes, you got in trouble for that half. OK, but then you're like, Well, when I get out, I got my bachelors. I got some knowledge I gained in here, whatever. But what about the person who doesn't have that thinking? I would think after so many years, there could be. There has to be or should be, I should say, opportunities for this person to have develop leadership or success mindset. Right. If they choose, if they want to. But I would think after so many years, they would have to be like, OK, I want to get out of here and I want I get there's some people who won't prepare, but I can't for the life of me believe 75% of inmates decide I don't want to lead my life, right? Is there? Is there a lack of resources? Is there nobody willing to come in and teach? Because I get that I was lucky. I had mentors and stuff that jumped in my life basically allowed them in. But they said, Hey, I want to. I want to give you some things to read that's going to help your life. I want to give you something is going to change every way to completely change the way you've ever thought about life. I thought, Wow, this is amazing. So I was able to develop go through a personal development. But if no one's ever had that in their life, right? It's like you don't know what you don't know. So how I didn't grow up with that? How are you supposed to know these things? So is there at all opportunities for the other 75% to like? I hope I'm not rambling, not making sense, like actually develop that mindset to go succeed once they get out of the wall. Yeah. As I stated earlier, it starts while you are behind the wall and to ask you your question, they are dependent on an institution or a prison that you're in. Luckily for myself, I say lovely work like the place I was located. It was known as like a program. We are meaning that there were programs there that a person can take away whatever it was like welding electrical right, painting h back some of those light blue collar nitrate type of jobs, right? But also, I spent a lot of time at a law library where I read a lot, right? We had newspaper that came in like The Wall Street Journal. I got countless magazines that kind of came in right. Well, I think most importantly is the the company that surrounded myself, as I stated earlier. Like, that's key because if you're hanging around people that don't want anything out of life and that goes for like if you're behind a wall, you in a free world, right? Like, you're not going, you don't want us to see. So let's ask you. Of course, there are opportunities for people to do things depending on where you're at. And like I say, where I was, that that was there, what I was going to make it happen over where I was. If I was in a dungeon, I was going to read. I was going to educate myself because I'll always been a lifelong learning anyway, but so on. It's not like that. It's going to be tough. All right. It's going to be tough. If they weren't in a location that I was it where I would probably say, if I thought it, I'm on it. I'll probably say out of all institutions throughout the United States, I'll probably say. There's probably a third that's like where I was it, you know, so 30% up out of the prisons, right? It's pretty much a lot of it. I've heard of certain places where it's like, Man, there's nothing to do about the prison. When I came here, I have to do a whole lot, you know, so they're out there. So that's that's the major problem as well. Like the all the lack of funding or even a lack to just wanting to buy the stock. Mm hmm. You know what I mean? It's easy just to come in and just, you know, do the counting just not, you know, provide any kind of program. But for the men and women that's incarcerated, what it takes that extra step for someone to really care about the men and women lives and actually put on a certain program and a lot of stuff, not a program where I was that was ran by the actual prisoners, by people teaching classes. You know, I was on a reentry committee and all reentry committee is pretty much a committee on pretty much helping me with my coaches and all my resume. Right. We I guess we just kind of come in, but that's like, that's an anomaly. You know what I mean, love you. How we got to that, that kind of a place a lot of places aren't like that is so. A person that can be so ill, you know, if they if they don't have a straw man all ready to want to do anything different. If there is is some kind of programs in play and I just think back to the things I learned when I was 20, 21, 22 and I put things I don't know if I would have heard of if somebody didn't introduce me to the concept of personal development. So like things like you are who you is, you will be in life. You said the top five people you associate with those types of things. And so I can't help but wonder if there's got to be other people than have never heard those things. It's no different than someone who's not incarcerated who still hasn't figured out how to advance in life. Right. There's there's people all around us who they work the same, you know, dead end job, and they haven't figured out how to get to that next step they want to. I think now some people just don't want to. But there's nothing we want to. And they just like, I can't figure out how to get out of this hole and they just nobody's ever pardon me wonders. Maybe they always taught them how to get a hole. I would assume there's got to be something similar. I guess that's my feeling when I think, OK, is that there's nobody coming in and teaching some of these guys or ladies how to think differently. You know, the ones who already aren't thinking, obviously, you're kind of an enigma. You already thought differently. You already were preparing. But like no other. Yeah, I think you just need to be. Like staff at prisons or that the powers that be to add more programing, you know, to be able to, for instance, like my podcast, I get countless emails from people that hear my podcast behind a wall like, Oh my God, I was like, You know, as far as I really changed my life, probably like, I really need to hear this right? And so that's that's super dope. When I was there, I love hearing stories like of Aria College books about people that kind of overcame a situation that was like my glimpse into someone's life to be able to say, Oh, wow, if they made it, I know I can write, I will be able to have programs like a podcast where guys can hear or when we can hear of stories of overcoming, and they can see themselves in those stories. That's a program that's key that could change someone's life from waking up one day one to slit their wrists. So like, you know what? Let me get on top of my bed. Let me get my GED. You know, let me take courses right? Or, you know, let me learn how to be a better be a better father or better mom. You know about I think a lot of it has to do with exposure to. I mean, think of the environment of prison. We know it's not just rehabilitation, but it's punishment. Somebody is in lockdown for 23 out of 24 hours a day, and all they see, you know, is a cell with no windows, nothing. There's no exposure for better. So all you have is your mind, but your mind is constantly being worn down and torn down, not the environment that you're in. That's not conducive for better. So it's kind of a we have a long way to go. There's been progress, but I think conversations like this, especially from someone that has already been inside, you know, is going to help move the needle to where it needs to be so we can flip that 75, 25 and reverse the light. But I want to know, man, how you you have this amazing story, but you have a shirt on that says switch hustles. So our audience of what that means genius idea. And if we had saw it, we would have taken it from you. But you might find markets that way. But tell us, man, not just me and my brother, John, tell us what that means and how they can incorporate that in their own lives. Because John just wanted to of those people that are working dead end jobs. Yeah, I don't know how to make that switch. They don't know how to make that turn. Tell us what that means, man. Unpack that for us. Yeah, for sure, man. So it's also this first is a mindset shift, you know, switch your mindset to be able to do anything differently in life. So I don't want people to think that it's only switching from illicit activities to positive or legitimate businesses. As John Sweat or this light switch hustle, there's someone that like they've always wanted to open up their coffee shop right where they've been on this day and jail, maybe not even a dead end job, just like the job they just got to have to do just to kind of make ends meet. And so they finally kind of stepping out on faith and out of their comfort zone and switching up and doing something differently to level up in their lives, you know, so maybe it's that person that finally wants to go back to school, you know , he's maybe or she's, you know, 20 credits away from their bachelor's degree or associate's degree. So they're like, You know what? Let me again, let me level up in life, and then we then we switch what I'm doing to switch hustles and I'll make things better for myself and for my off future generations. So that's basically what it is switching to my sense, which allows us to do something to our better your life for yourself and for others. That's called in to clarify when I say dead end job, so many people are going to think I'm talking about a minimum wage worker at McDonald's who hates it. That would be included if you don't feel like you're going anywhere. But I personally know engineers who've done it for ten years and hate it. And you can tell because they're not excited about life, and they're just like, Yeah, it's fine. It is what pays the bills or almost paid off my house. It's cool. Like, if all you're looking forward to is paying off your house, that life sucks. And so that's what I mean by like, you just don't see the next possibility or you're not excited about those next steps or growing within that adventure. That's what I really mean by it. So if someone hears me say, like most people think, Oh, it's the McDonald's job or something, that's not at all like, I know people who work through McDonald's for 15 years and I've done quite well for themselves and moved into corporate spots and stuff like that. So. Absolutely. Well, I must say that I'm not going to back down from that statement. I will take it and say there are somebody that all working at McDonald's. And you know that your beef, your potential. Oh, I'm sure that job, that is a dead end job for you. And you have better. You have to switch that mindset. You've got comfortable in that place. So I agree with John, but I'm going to add on to that that some of you are there, those are dead end jobs as well. Everybody won't be a CEO. Somebody has got to be the janitor. Somebody's got to be the trash man. But as my father told me, they don't have to be you. Exactly. Or if it is you, you be the best janitor. He'd be the best. Exactly, exactly. Well, I would say, no matter who it is, everybody should appreciate and love the janitor less there, not less. They may be happy in that position. I know somebody who is homeless a handful of years ago and his own fault. He was in drugs and is basically homeless. And today he's a janitor for a school, a public school where most people don't know, is he just finished his pastoral credentials and is, you know, going to be a lead pastor in his church here very soon? You know what I mean? As far as I know, I think they might know if he was offered it or not, but I know it's you know what I mean. And that was I know him less than ten years or so and ten years from homeless and drug issues couldn't see his own kids. So now he is with his wife, has a new baby and he's going to be. We had about show we had to. We did. Yes. Who are you talking about? Yeah. Yes. And so it's in that half. He's one of my best friends. I love the guy. He's amazing. So yeah, I mean. But the reason he's happy doing the janitorial stuff is it's a means to his next step back. There you go. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. What advice would you give to an entrepreneur, bro? Because I think you're killing the game like, grab your killing. They're proud of what you're doing. Super. I mean, yeah, amazing. What would you would you say to an aspiring entrepreneur that may be struggling? Or maybe he doesn't think that they can be or they are an entrepreneur? I don't think that, OK, I can't get to that next level. What advice would you give them from the experiences that you've had as an entrepreneur to encourage the struggling entrepreneur? Yeah, no. Oh my God, give us a gift, you know, only for us. You know what I mean? Like, is this even if other people don't understand it, you know, innately in your spirit, like, this is what I supposed to be doing. Hmm. You've got to keep pushing that like. What do you make money from it or not? You know what I'm saying, you just have to stick to stick do with that passion, you know, because eventually, like the money's and all that kind of stuff will come and it's taken me now like to kind of realize that's all speaking to myself as well. You know what I mean? As I say that because we want things right away, all we look at shiny things, right? We look at the other people was going to be like, Oh, well, maybe we have to just do that. And that's not what God gave you. You know what I mean? So to kind of to kind of hone in on your own gift and turn in that gift into your business is like one of the greatest, greatest joys of leave. And it's like, you're not working. You don't know. Maybe because you're it, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. So that's what I always say like to to find your gift in light, to stick through with it, even when I feel like nothing is coming out of it. I know what 1000 million years that escaping my prison experience will be like. Right by who I the call, you know what I mean, like my personal life and my professional life is together. You know what I mean? And so I think that it wouldn't have been that way had I not recognized what God has given me. You know, what I'm saying is give in and perspective. You know, I know I'm kind of going off, but this was on my spirit like perspective, looking at my incarceration differently. You know what I mean? And like, if I was a beer while I was way I would have never been able to like to take those nuggets would be like, Wow, you know what? These are great men, and I'll come across this out of prison, and it really have great stories and great business insight. Let me tell those stories once I get out, you know, like I would have been so wrapped up in my own bitterness that I wouldn't have been able to see what God would give me at the time. It would be an escape. So and I say it easy when I'm doing. It's like there's been countless times where I would like, you know, I'm not making any money off this. You got to be like, Why I continue to do it and I'll get an email from somebody real. So or reach out to a I love your show, you know what I mean? Like these people doing it. So that's what kind of keep me going. So I hope you guys got that wrapped up in a, you know, all of that. Yes. Great answer. Live in your gift and God, I'll make room for you. So. Yes, absolutely. That's a Steve Harvey favorite quote. How would you put your great, great kings? You know, basically, Aaron, what you said is, don't be afraid, don't be afraid to get on script, right? You know, don't don't follow everybody else's script. It's most authentic leadership. Yeah. Don't be afraid to follow the script that God gave you, even if it looks crazy, even if it sounds crazy to everybody else. Because the reality is they don't understand it because God didn't give it to them. He didn't give it right. So of course, you don't understand the dream. You don't understand the vision because you weren't there when he gave it to me. And at the same time, I was like, You do escape and odds are stacked against you. You know that you can't be at the core of all that data and job. You know what? You're not right. You operate in a year and your gift and making it making the work. Yeah. John, do you have anything else, Rossi, right? You just. Is this something you said, man, I'm writing down, but don't forget, I got like God's vision doesn't make what makes sense for everybody else. Yeah. God vision for you is not going to make sense to everybody else. It wasn't made for them. Yeah, we I'm sure I don't want to go or use a biblical tangent, but we know about the story of Joseph. No, brothers. Yes, I know Joseph was a dreamer, but you didn't understand it. They want to throw this man into the pit and kill the man because he had a dream, you know? But you can't. You can. You can't kill the dreamer. You know, people can kind of can kind of kill the dream, but you can't kill the dreamer inside the dream. So, bro, just keep on going. And it's just amazing. Amazing. This is probably one of my favorite episodes. It's great just because it was just it was just a great conversation. It really was like the all. But I really, really love enjoy being and I love and appreciate authentic conversations and authenticity those alone. And that's what I'm all about. Like my podcast. Like this one? You know, it's unscripted, you know, really, I get on. We have a conversation. Of course, I know the direction I want to go. But at the end of the day, it's like we discovered a conversation. A real, real tough. Absolutely. And listen to our audience, those that were watching to listen to this, we want you to stay connected. one of the ways that we could do that is on Instagram of his Instagram handle is at a state of the art video. Go follow him there. Connect with him on LinkedIn. Aaron Smith Also check out his amazing website State of the Art dot com. Stay connected here with us at unscripted with all of us on all our social media platforms. @unscriptedleadership, unscripted-leadership.com. And of course, our podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. As always, we pray that you be the leader that God called has you to be. Were here to build bridges and not walls. Bridges connect and walls divide. Until next time, and I say one thing will stop you. Sorry, this one. Will the audience know that I just created a new company called Guitar Transport, where you are one driver already over and pretty much are all formerly incarcerated to kind of teach them a lesson how to have their own equipment kind of golden rule they call themselves. And so, yeah, I know, I know there's a lot of people who are incarcerated who actually want to get into trouble in the foundation industry. And I do that kind of work in my day job, actually dispatcher for free because of my age and not the sound. So let all this talk. That's one of the things I'm going on. If anybody or anyone is looking for, you know, is the transportation industry or need any local deputy, you do that for you. Distributor, we're out if you're hiring even those that have already. I think. Absolutely. Like I want it to every one of one I to be with you. OK. I have had some kind of justice involved, like maybe what it cost me to have a right to do something right. Look at an opportunity to get behind the wheel. Actually eventually own an old equipment. What is the cargo boom box truck or a tractor trailer? You know the kind of gear the game will take to the next level? So yeah, so that's what that's what the podcast is about. You know, entrepreneurship. I want to actually go from not only just telling the stories, but three.