How To Build A Legacy Business That Keeps Growing! Feat. Tom Ziglar

Authentic Leadership Podcast, a podcast we're seeking to lead change while also seeking to understand. We are also a platform for leaders to come together to unite, to develop, and empower leaders in the areas of business, family and community. I'm your host Lafayette Lane, joined by my co-host John LeBrun. Today, we are joined by a very special guest, Tom Ziglar. Put those hands together, put those clappy most in the comments section. Make our special guests feel right at home. Tom Ziglar has joined us to have a special conversation about how to build a legacy business that keeps growing. Just a little bit about Tom Ziglar. He is the son of Zig Ziglar. He is the CEO of Zig Ziglar Corporation. Tom carries on the Ziglar philosophy. You can have anything in life you want, if you will just help enough people get what they want. Tom Travels the world teaching leadership and business lessons the billion dollar corporations, small businesses and academic institutions. He is also the author and coauthor of several books, including Born to Win the Secrets of Closing the Sale. Choose to Win and his latest book, Ten Leadership Virtues for Disruptive Times Coaching Your Team through Immense Change and Challenge. Today, he has joined us right here on the Unscripted, Authentic Leadership podcast. Tom, thanks for coming on. All right. Lafayette, John, this is good stuff. I'm excited to be here today. Absolutely. Well, Tom, let's get right into the conversation, man. Just reading your bio. That was some gems right here, just right in the bio right there that we can get right into. But we're talking tonight about how to build a legacy business that keeps growing. And you come from a rich heritage, a rich legacy. And we're talking about how to build a legacy business, right? But I want to ask you, what does that word legacy mean to you? Well, you know, there are so many great definitions of legacy. Mark Patterson said an inheritance is what you leave to someone. A legacy is what you leave in someone's home. So to me, legacy is when we teach and transfer the knowledge, the wisdom, the habits that allow who, who are transferring it to to make good decisions that will ripple through eternity. You know, it's like we've got people in our business that we want to grow up and develop and we want them to go on and make great decisions. We've got our kids and our family and our community. We want to teach them how to make great decisions so they can carry on when we're called home. So to me, that's what legacy is a that thing that ripples on after we're gone and we want it to be a legacy by design, not by chance. A legacy, by design, not by chance. So that speaks to intentionality, then to the intention, to the intent of purpose of the leader, right? So how does a leader create that into those that are following them? That pattern that you're talking about, that sticks with them, that creates that legacy that continues on to those that are following the head leader? Yeah, and you're 100% it's got to be intentional. And the idea is is really simple. Everybody has to dig into and discover their why, their purpose, what it is. You know, why are they in this thing called life? When you ask most people, why do you do what you do? They kind of shrug their shoulders, Well, I got rent to pay, you know? So wait a second, it's got to be more than that. And that's what's going on in our world today. You know, two years ago, this thing called the pandemic it. And we lost loved ones, and a lot of people lost their jobs, their world got turned upside down and they had to go home and start thinking about what really mattered and. So to me, you know, the new the new words it's out there is the great resignation. People are quitting, right? And everybody's up in arms and I've got a ziegler spin on it. I call it the great reimagination. So as business owners and business leaders, we get to reimagine what we want the future to be. But it's all got to start with the why and the purpose. You know, it's got to start with, you know, when it gets tough, when it gets hard, when we got to show some grit, when things don't go our way, when the world changes the wise guy to be so big that we just love it, right? We love the disruption because it gives us the edge. Hmm. You know. Go ahead, bro. So what advice do you have then for somebody who says, OK? They they look at the st. They're part of that crew who right now is part of the great resignation, and by that, I think there's a large group of people who have said, Why am I? Why am I doing what I've done for the last ten years or is in your book? You call them the golden handcuffs. You said basic and the basically the I don't know the exact phrase, but you allude to in the book that that you just wrote that most people have given how self handcuffed themselves by essentially being too comfortable in their careers and their paychecks and their annual raises that they've handcuffed themselves to where they will. They will cannot step foot, they cannot step into their purpose, they cannot step into the calling that God has created them to take on because they're are too too comfortable in their comfort zone with their biweekly paychecks and their salary and their whatever else, you know. And so how does somebody find that? Why then? So they can step into the great imagination. Why this so big? Yeah. You know, that's that's the that's the big question. So here's the challenge with the great resignation, people. There's been battlefield promotions everywhere. And so you can if you're not happy where you are, if it's not ringing your bell, if it doesn't, you know, if the leadership in the organization isn't what you want, you can probably look around and and get a nice pay increase somewhere else . The problem is is you're going to take your same self to go work for the same kind of leader in hockey, and all you've done is change the decor in the office or wherever you're working and you're just as miserable as you were before. And so you got to dig in a little bit and you got to say, OK, why am I here? What's what's important to me? What really matters? My personal mission statement, I think everybody should have a mission, right? So my personal mission statement is simply this to create the atmosphere that allows you to become the person that God created you to become. Yeah, right. And so one question is, well, who God created me to become? You know, what's the reason behind it? And there's there's there's I have this little guy on a podcast that's kind of fun to describe. I've been diagram, but it's like, you know, it's one of those diagrams where the three circles and they intersect in the middle, right? Right. So the first one is what makes your heart sing like if there's if there's anything you could do, what is it that you do it? And it seems like ten minutes, but it's been four hours. And then the second circle is, gosh, what kind of problems do people bring you? Like your friends, your coworkers, the people who dance? Why would they keep asking you certain types of problems? Question on those problems. Dig in to that, because that's a clue, maybe that's where you have a gift or a talent. Right. And then the third is what's the biggest challenge or obstacle you've overcome? You know, maybe you were born into a rough start, broken home, and, you know, the economic situation wasn't really good, or maybe you had a health crisis or maybe a little bit later in life, you made some bad choices and got to deal with those consequences, but you overcame that. And so you've learned a lot. Right? What were those three things intersect. That's a good place to kind of figure out what your why is, what your purpose, because to me, you know, the greatest joy in the world is helping someone else be, do or have more than they thought possible. So if you can figure out how to leverage your skills, your gifts, your talents, your experience was something that your love, right, that makes your heart saying, I believe the creator put that in you, right? And then if you if you've overcome some obstacles or made some mistakes and overcome those along the way, other people are suffering and struggling a little bit slower on the journey that you can help them. And if you can put those three things together, that's a great place to start. It seems like much of what you said is also about changing your perspective because you talked about that word disruptive and disruptive times, which we know we definitely are in . But I think a lot of people have allowed the disruption to disrupt their progress to put a parallel, paralyze a paralysis on their potential, put a paralysis on their purpose instead of allowing it to push them forward. Like you're suggesting that this disruption is a part of the element that plays a part in your purpose of moving forward. How does one change their perspective and their mindset that the disruption is actually a part of the process that moved me for not holding me back? Yeah, I'll tell you. I'll give a couple of sports examples. I was, I'm a golfer. I used to be a golfer. And so following Tom Watson, when I was growing up, he was an amazing champion and he won five British opens. And for those of you who don't follow golf the British Open, it's known for one thing really bad weather. I mean, it rained sideways. It's cold. And they asked him because that's a major championship, and he won five and almost nobody. It's rare for you to even win one in a career. And they said, How do you do so well? And he said, Well, the weather's bad. And they said, What do you mean? And he said, Well, in a normal tournament, if I'm playing good, I've only got to compete against ten or 15, maybe 20 other pros who were playing good. But when the weather's bad, I've only got to compete against five because everybody gets disrupted, right? Everybody gets taken out of their game because the conditions are bad. And so he prays for rain. And I think as leaders, we pray for rain because if we embrace the disruption, it's the story of the two hikers in the woods . You know, they're they're sitting down, they're getting ready to eat, they've got their boots off and the bear charges in. And the first hiker says, Run the bear is going to eat us. And the second hiker reaches down and he's putting his shoes on and tying him as fast as he can on this. And the first hiker says, What do you put your shoes on? We got to outrun the bear, and the second hiker says, No, we don't. I just got outrun you. And that's. I know that's pretty lame, but that's that's the way it is right now. There's so much opportunity business really exists to solve problems for the people we serve. And if you're in a business that solves other people's problems, then the creator of the universe smiles when you help sell one of his children. Right? I mean, that's just the reality of it. And when times get tough, a lot of people sit down like you said, they get paralyzed. But if we stand up and say, This is it, this is our time, right? This is where we win. This is where there are more people than ever who need our solution. We're going to go out there and make a difference and serve people in a different way, in a unique way. That's how disruption that's the mindset shift, right? And so if we're fixed mindset, if we're all about results, then we get hyper focused on the way we've always done it. And when the world changes, we're stuck. But if we're focused on growth and how much we can learn and how we can innovate and create and collaborate and work together because our advantage is the growth , then there's always going to be opportunity for us. Hmm. Can you? If you don't mind, I would love to so. I used to read your dad's book, see you at the top. It was one of the probably first four or five books that I'd ever read. When I got into self-help, the first book was a book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad. The second one was called Who Moved My Cheese was. A ten year old could read in about 30 minutes, but I was new as new in the self-help thing. And then right after that somewhere I wrote course that I read it. Someone gave me, See you at the top. And the first time I ever heard of Zig and I have the book still today. It's I know he's written a bunch of them, but I would imagine that's probably one of his most famous books. Well, since we're talking about a legacy building, a legacy business, can you take us back? As I'm sure everybody wants to know, what was it like living in a house with sick? Yeah. Well, when you started naming off those books, I'll just take you back to the story. So gosh, this story is probably I just started at the company. So this is like at least 30 years ago, maybe 25. So I get a call from dad and he's in the he's in a car. He's just spoken for a big company and he's in the back seat and he says, Hey, I want you to meet somebody. This guy is going to do good stuff. And it was it was Robert Kiyosaki with Dad. And then a little later they said over the like a prototype of the cash flow game. So yeah, so one of the cool things is I got to meet all these amazing people and even cooler than that, they were all telling me the same thing. And your dad, he's the reason I do what I do well, right away. That's like it's everywhere in the world. I go and speak today, or it's like people know my dad, right? They know it's like I'm already family. Every room I go to, there's family members out there. We just haven't met yet. And so that's really, really cool. And so growing up and this legacy, you know, one of the things the dad told my sisters was, Hey, I don't care what you do, you know, he didn't have pressure to say, you need to be a speaker or you go and sales. He always said, Look, whatever you do, do it with 100% integrity and 100% effort. Wow. You know, is parents. Isn't that a great kind of guideline? I'm going to support you. I'm going to ask you the questions to draw out the gifts and talents you have. And when you get into something, you go 100%. Do you do it with all the integrity you've got, right? I mean, that's that's cool. So that's what it's been like when Dad passed away, which is nine years ago now. Mm hmm. Somebody said, How are you doing? And I said, Well, this legacy, it's kind of heavy. Right? And he looked at me and he said this. He said, Well. He said two things. first off, your dad walk, just talk, and he was a really good talker. Right, because it was speaking. Mm-Hmm. And then he said, and by the way, your dad's legacy is secure. Now you have to focus on your own legacy. Right? And that is something that most people don't realize until later in life. But I don't care if you're 15 or 20 or 30 or 40 or 50. You've got your own legacy to build. You might as well start now and it might as well make a difference. Right, because we're all going to be here anyway. So what are you going to do intentionally to do that? And so those words kind of. And when I hear something in my head, you know, it's dad's voice and it's, you know, it's it's it's pretty cool, but that's that's what it was like growing up. As good as dad was on stage, he was even better off stage. It's just like, Well, I had read in your book that he you guys had routine family dinners. And so for us, things that we all probably get away from sometimes is that family dinner time, which I've I've implemented. And then we've gotten away in my house and I've re-implemented and we've been pretty steady about doing that lately to have that time with my kids. So I'm a I'm a dad of two. I have two kids, Andrew, who's ten, and Lily, who's seven. And I read something as a wordsmith quote, and he had said that parenting is like gardening as the gardener. You don't tell the plant what it is supposed to be. God has already created what it's supposed to be. Your your your job is to give it the environment to grow, flourish into what it was born or created to become. So how and then you alluded to your father did not expect you to be a speaker, anything like that. But I got to know, is there anything special that he did to kind of create that environment for you and your and your siblings to grow into what you've become today? It was just a constant belief of speaking truth and life and to us. I'll I'll give you an experience. When I was 16, I wanted I got a job at the mall because being 56, 40 years ago, that's where every kid went to work was the mall. I mean, you can just watch the movies from the eighties and the whole the teenage movies are at the mall. So I go to this place called the athlete's foot and they sold, you know, athletic shoes, and I go in and I get the job application and I bring it home and I'm like, Dad, they're never going to hire me. I've never had a job before. Okay. So not knowing at all that the malls want to hire kids like me. You've never had a job. Right? We're the only ones who are going to work for nothing. All right. So he looks at me and he says, Oh yeah, you have write this down. You've had 16 years of being persistent and disciplined and on time and creative and being honest, and he started repeating back all these character qualities that he had brought me up on. And dad was real big on this. He, he written, praises overly on the things that we didn't have control of. Right, so some kids are are just born smart, right, school's easy. Some kids are born, you know, they're naturally tall, naturally athletic. Right. There's all kinds of gifts that we have. So but what he would praise me on is the effort that I put in for the courage I display or the extra effort, all the things I could control. And of course, we live in a social media world, so we're always comparing ourselves to other people, especially our kids . And so they can hear how they look to how somebody else looks. Can't control that. I mean, you can be, you know, properly attired and clean. But our looks are our looks and that's what we got. But what is it that we can control that we can work on? And that's that's really what it's about is is dad helped us to understand that we have these gifts. We have this purpose in front of us. And Dad's definition of success was really simple. Success is the max is the success of the maximization of the abilities and the maximizing of the abilities that God gave you. So we maximize our gifts, and that's the definition of success. Absolutely. So I've got to ask you about this quote that I read in your bio. I read it before reading it tonight, but it just hit me again. I just want you to unpack it for me. You said you can have anything in life you want, if you will just help enough people get what they want. Unpack that for us. Yeah, so that sounds really familiar. It's similar to the golden rule. You know, love thy neighbor, as thyself is another way to look at that so you can have everything in life you want. So what do you want in life? And this is a I kind of have a story. And as a as a as a preacher, you may you may resonate. You may have heard this story, but have you ever heard the difference between heaven and hell? And it's the banquet table and the banquet table is just loaded up with the best food you've ever seen in your whole family, all of humanity's is sitting at the table and you look and it's everything you've ever wanted to eat and your appetites just go on through the roof and you can't wait to dig in and you look down at your hands and you have a knife and a fork that are duct taped to your hands and the knife and the fork or both three feet long. And so you start to cut the food and you're trying to get that into your mouth, but you can't because the fork is too long. And so in hell, everybody's trying to feed themselves. And in heaven, everybody's feeding the person across from them. And what's all this disruption and this great re-imagination and everybody understanding what's really important and putting their faith in their family and all these values ahead of the things that aren't as important? There's we're either going to try to feed ourselves and starve or we're going to go serve our fellow human being and feed them, and when we feed them, when we help them get what they want. Then we're going to get everything in life that we want. And I think we're really at a turning point right now. To me, it's very exciting. I don't like the sickness that's going on, but I love the fact that people are understanding there's something bigger out there , something that's that they need to dedicate themselves to so they can make a difference. And if you're in leadership, how do you when as a leader, you help your people succeed and when your team succeeds, guess what happens? Dad's quote is if you're. Irreplaceable, you're un promotable. So your job as a leader is is to equip and develop everybody on your team so they can do what you do better than you do when that happens, you get promoted. It's kind of an again that is so good and so true because there's so many people who get one notch up from where they started and then they hold on to it and they never let go because that's theirs. And they don't want to train anybody because they don't want them to take their spot. I call that I have a name for those leaders. They're called T.Rex leaders. Oh, they've got like a Tyrannosaurus rex, right? They've got sharp teeth and short arms because they like to hold everything, close their command and control. Do it because I said so and they're going extinct. You can't lead people over a camera with that kind of you can't get done work. So, yeah, I guess you can make the argument that they're really not leading anybody, right? They're just trying to be the best. They're there one role. Absolutely. Mm-Hmm. In your book, you had you kind of grouped it into three sections you put with with virtues within each one. They were. The sections were, who do we need to need to be obvious, which is incredibly important? How do we how do we need to be? And what needs to be done now? I think I said all this properly. And one of them caught my attention and it was in that first section that said, Who do we need to be as I personally have always focused on? Who do I need to be to get to go to the next level or to help the next person better or to whatever, be the better father and stuff? The reason I think it's important is because so many people focus so much and pointing fingers on I didn't get there because of this or that situation or that person or the pandemic or whatever. I didn't have time. That's my favorite one. So instead of focusing on, OK, what is it about me that needs to change or become better? I don't really like change too much because I think that most insinuates that you're not good enough. But I think upgrade or, you know, get better improve would be a good word. You have to be someone different said to be better. But anyways, you had a virtue too is called selflessness. And one of the sexes was called understand and foster dream alignment because you could you talk about that? I thought it was really, really fascinating. Yeah. Well, I'll give you a coach leadership model. That shows you a dream alignment is but first I got to tell the story about how to catch a unicorn. Yeah, because everybody wants to know how to catch a unicorn. Definitely. My daughter with do. Yeah. So I was coaching this young guy he was. John is probably your age is about mid-thirties little and a multimillionaire in real estate. And he says, I think I want to get married, but I think I need to start dating first. So, yeah, that's usually how it works. And then he confessed that he hadn't dated since he was a teenager. He's like, totally consumed with building this empire. And I said, OK, well, great, so tell me about the person you want to marry. OK, and so guys, ladies, we all know we got the list right. So outcomes are pretty good. Look and sense of humor. Smart, easy to talk to, you know, hard working adventure. Had the whole list, right? And then he looks at me and he says, I think I just described a unicorn exist, do they? And I said, I don't know. And then he said, How do you catch a unicorn? And I said, That's the easy part. I said, it's not easy, but it's easy. And he goes, What do you mean? I go, Well, the way you catch a unicorn is you become a unicorn. Hmm. You listed all those qualities that you want. What kind of person would attract somebody with those qualities? And so that's really kind of a story that that first section kind of embodies, we got a big person and it's going to attract top performers on our team that's going to attract friends that have the same mindset and the same view of life that we want. You know, we want to we want to go up and grow up with those around us. Well, we want to bring as many people as we can with this. So there's a thing called dream line with, and I'm going to kind of give everybody the coach leadership model and there's two words that are going on right now and the words are. People want autonomy. Right? The world, everybody wants to do what they want and then they want to do how they want to do it. But then there's business, right? And if you're in business, if you're a leader, you've got authority. So we've got this friction between autonomy and authority. Right? And I say this, I say coach leaders choreographed the dance between autonomy and authority. Well, on the economy side, let's just call that the team members side, people who go to work somewhere. There's two types of team members. There are purpose driven team members and they're pleasure driven team members. And so purpose driven, this is the top performer. They're going to work somewhere. They've got a bigger dream, a bigger goal. They're on a mission. The reason they want to do well in their career or in their business or whatever they're doing is because it's going to serve a much bigger purpose. They literally every week say, I want to be better tomorrow than I am today, right around this group. Well, the other side is what we call the pleasure driven team members and pleasure driven. It's about how they feel. If they don't feel like going around, they might call in sick if they feel like checking social media or taking a few minutes off or putting something procrastinating. That's what they're going to do. And we call them and Ziglar, we call those people zombies. Okay, they're the technical term as they're disengaged, right? They say they see no connection between what they do every day and getting their dreams. They don't see how their work helps them get closer to their dream. But this is what I know dreams take time and money. Right? But there's none of these. They've got a brain disease. They didn't even they don't even know how to dream. So on the other side, on the authority side, we have two types of leaders. We have accountability leaders and we have control leaders. Now control leaders are already described. That's the T rex, right? Yeah, micromanage do it because I said so. Policies and procedures, rules. It's all about results. It's not about relationship. It's, you know, short arms and sharp teeth. They lead from fear or fright, and they like to control people. And then the accountability leader is what I call the coach leader. And the coach leader does this, what they do is they go to their team members and they say, Hey, Lafayette, what's your dream man? What's your goal? John, why are you here? What is it you want to accomplish? And they keep asking the question. And you know, you might say something like. And I want to I want to start my own business someday or I want to get out of debt or I want to buy a house or I want to, you know, whatever that is. And then the coach leader say, Hey, let me help you. Oh gosh, I'd love to help you get that dream. Well, how's that? Well, have you noticed that the better you do in your job, the more money you make and the dreams take time and money, so the better you do, the faster you get it? Yeah. I want to help you get your dream. And by the way, the company has a dream too. The company has a vision and virtue, and when we solve a lot of problems, when we do our job well, the company grows. We make more profit. And, you know, if we make more profit and you're a reason we make more profit, I can pay you more money. Does that sound fair? Hmm. Yeah. So I tell you what, if you if you help the company reach its goals and dreams, I'll help you reach yours. That's the Dreamliner. And so it was out of an interview that I heard Doc Rivers go, they they asked and they said he's he's like, considered one of the greatest communicators in the NBA. I mean, he absolutely he can really motivate people who make more money than he does, right? So that's a that's a gift. And they said, How do you do it? He said, I'll just meet with them one on one. What do you say? He said, Well, before the season, I sit down with them and I say. What do you want to accomplish this year? What is what your goal? And he said now in the NBA, when you got an athlete right, their agent has negotiated a contract and that contract has all these bonus clauses, like so many minutes, so many points, so many rebounds, so many whatever position they're in, right? And if they make the All-Star team, they get a bonus if they make all these different things right. And so he says I'll let him talk. I will tell me what they want. And then at the end, I ask him a question and I look at him and I say, Hey, it's OK if I hold you accountable to your goals. And you see, that's ownership. That's what a coach later does as a coach, leader helps the person on their team create a plan, a goal to reach their dreams and then ask them, Is it OK if I hold you accountable to your goal? And so we're held accountable for what we've created. We got ownership. There's a lot more follow through. There's that the why is behind it right? The dream is there and that dream alignment happens and so down. Then we go back to the two words. Remember the two words? The words were autonomy and authority today, so a coach leader's job is to support, equip, develop, inspire, encourage and support their team member so much for the sole purpose of giving them as much autonomy as possible. We want Navy SEALs on our team. We want to say, Hey, here's the mission, what do you need? Right, that's that's who we want on our team. And then a top performer, when they understand that they've got a war coach leader who is gunning for them, who's you know, who's got their back, who's providing for the support he's helping them grow. A top performer will come to that coach later, and you see it all the time. Great athletes and coaches, and they have that relationship. A top performer will go and they'll say, Hey, I'm grateful for your, you know, for how you how you helped me grow. Will you hold me accountable? So you see there the top, the coach leaders given autonomy in the top performers asking for accountability. And that's that's certain at that the banquet table right now. That's right. That's the world we're in. We can try to feed ourselves and demand autonomy, and we're going to go hungry or we can feed the person across from us and ask for accountability and support those. Now there's something else in that diagram, right? Because we remember we've got autonomy and authority and we've got purpose driven and pleasure on the team member side, zombie right? And then we've got the coach later in the T rex, which is all about control. Well, zombies and T Rex is they have alignment too, and that alignment is called money alignment. Now the money alignment works this way. A zombie wants to do a little work as possible and still get paid. And as Steve Rex ought to pay as little as possible and still get the job done. So you see the difference between aligning on money versus aligning on dreams. Yeah. And that's that's the opportunity we have now. It's the great reimagination. Let's get dream alignment back in our in our work. Do you have a tip on? I've I had my previous career, I had managed a small team and I would sit down with a monthly and always talk about their goals. What do you want that sort of thing? But the hard part was sometimes identifying what they really wanted versus what they wanted me to hear. For example, everybody would say, I want to get a promotion like I want to be a supervisor or manager or whatever. That would be the next step. And my question was always that, well, why? Because do they really want that? Because it might not be as fun as they think. And honestly, the pay probably isn't as high as they assumed. And that kind of thing. So. Give me tips for how to have somebody listening who's in a similar position, I'd help identify what is that person's real dreams and how I can help them get it, versus would they kind of want to hear me say because I was talking to my son today in the car talking about what things he wanted, and at first he was rambling off things I think he wanted me to say, like, I want to be a great lacrosse player and things like that. And I thought, Son, what do you want? It's not about what I want is that makes sense. Yeah. And you know, that is this is a challenge because it depends on the relationship we have with that person on the team. If they're brand new and if it's and if they have an experience or a background where trust takes some time, maybe they've been hurt before . Maybe they've been told the line and it doesn't matter, right? They don't. They don't get rewarded in relationship to their energy and effort and results their output or outcome. Then they're going to be hesitant. And so what I like to do is walk in with so and encourage leadership. There's three things that you've got to do. OK, we've already talked about the first one, which is the mindset. You're right. And that's the most important if you don't have the mindset you're going to struggle on. I'm not going to say it's the most important, but it goes hand in hand. You can't do the other two without it, right? The second is the ten virtues you got to live out the ten virtues people. People talk all the time about, Hey, you need to love your people. Well, how you're right, I can't read our minds, right? You know somebody, our team in your head, you're like, I really love that guy. You know, it's like, I don't know that. What have you done for him and for these ten virtues of being selfless and kindness and the things that we talked about in the book. When you demonstrate that in a meeting or in a conversation or and how you recognize them for something they've done. That's how you walk it out. And then the third step is what you're asking about, John, and that's that's how you have to have an intentional coaching conversation around a coaching process. And here it is. This is real simple, and we don't have all day, but I can give it to you like two minutes. So, yeah, are you on your team? You bring them in and you say, Hey, man, 2021, what a year. Look at all you over. You really put in the extra with all that stress and all the, you know, what's going to happen. And hey, I just want to appreciate you for hanging in and with all the change and disruption. So in 2022, I just got a question. Do you want to make more money, less money or the same money? Yes. What are people going to say? More money better, if they're not, they're lying. But you know what? That's fantastic. I tell you what, I want to pay you more money. And if we're profitable and we're profitable because of your contribution and what you've done, you're going to make more money. Does that sound fair? Well, yeah, it is. If somebody in your team's helping your business is successful in improving the bottom line and because of their contribution, it's only fair you pay them more money, right? Right. And so then you get into it. OK, you want to make more money. Why do you want to make more money? Oh, well, and I'll just give a story out. We were working with a client and we were selling a project sales training, and we asked the VP of sales, Hey, if we put this in on, what's your goal? And he said, Well, I want to see a 10% increase in sales, right, because they were going to invest in sales training. And so his resolve is he wanted a 10% increase in revenue. And I said, great. Why is that important? And he said, Well, we'll all make our bonuses and we'll keep our jobs. And I go, Well, why is that important? So they won't be able to do it again next year? And I said, Why is that important? Well, if we do it again next year and we grow another 10%, he said, I'll be able to pay off my dad. And I said, Why is that important? And he said, Well, if we pay off the debt, I can build the lake house I've always wanted. And I said, Why is that important? And then everything changed. He said, Well, because then my grandkids will come and play with me at the Lake House. Let's get peel back the layers, and so that's the why behind the why behind the why? Behind the why? No. And so when they say, I want to make more money and then you ask why you might not be able to ask five questions in a row, right? They might just say, because I got some debt, I got it. I got a credit card. You know where I'm I want to get engaged or, you know, whatever. Would you take it right? You run with that. Well, fantastic. So here are the three things that the equal performance attitude times effort, time, skill equals performance. So you look at somebody's job, whatever they do, I'll just use a an air conditioning HVAC technician. So imagine because that's what I talk about in the book. This is the guy that goes when the air conditioner goes out, they show up at the house, at the 100 degrees in the house. They go in the attic. They fix the air conditioner. Right? And the homeowners like petrified. How much is this going to cost? So we're talking about this guy's job, right? So, so the coach leader would say, so you're, you know, you go in and you fix air conditioning for our company. What attitude you need to display in order to make more money? And they'll go, well, I don't know what you mean. Right? Because they're all so when you show up at a homeowner's house and it's 100 degrees inside and you knock on the door. How's that homeowner feeling when they open the door? Oh, well, they're nervous and they're hot and they're cranky, and they didn't get any sleep because of course, it went out at 11:00 at night, and they're wondering how much it's going to cost and they're wonder if they can trust us. And they're wondering, you know, is this guy a convicted felon and not the air conditioning guy? OK, great. So when you're done with the job, how do you want them to be feeling when you're done? Oh gosh, I want them to trust us. I want to. I want the air conditioner be fixed. I want them to be like, really happy that it didn't cost as much as they thought. And I wanted to get most referrals so that we can call on their friends and neighbors. Well, great. So tell me what attitudes can you display that will move on from how they felt when you knocked on the door to how you want them to feel when they leave? Well, now they start thinking, Oh well, I could be there five minutes early. That gives them confidence. I could put them in the eye and show them my ID and say, Hey, I'm with x y z, you called. We're here for the air conditioning. I've got the whole report. Do you mind if I go with you really quickly to make sure we're here for the right reason? That's going to build confidence that I can show them, Hey, this is what we're going to do. We're going to do A, B, C and D. We're not going to start any work until we go over the whole thing with you and you prove everything along the way. Hopefully, we can take care of this quickly, but if we can't, we're going to stay here until it's fixed. Does that sound fair? All right. So now they're talking, they know they're talking to a professional. These are all attitudes, right? So I can display an avenue with some energy and some welcoming, and that'll that'll help me get a better review from this client. And if they put it on Google reviews or something like that, that might give us more business, that'll make us more money. Right. So that's how attitude that that person has control over. So you asked the same question forever. What kind of effort can you do in your job that would help you make more money? Oh, I could make sure my truck is completely stocked with everything I need so I can handle this job as quickly as possible. Right? What kind of skill? This is the third question what kind of skill could you display that would help you to make more money? Oh, I could. I could check out all the other things in there, how we could help with, and if it doesn't cost the money I could, I could just fix it right then I could clean stuff up. I could take pictures of it. I could show it. And so all of a sudden, the coach leader, instead of telling them what their job is and how to do it, the coach readers ask him, just like Doc Rivers did. Hey, how can you hit those goals, you know? And then like Doc Rivers, if a player is in a slump or they're not feeling so good, they're off their game a little bit. They're kind of loafing and practice. They can just come up beside them in a quiet moment and just kind of know him and say, Hey, you still want me to hold you accountable to your goals? That's motivating in the right ways. You know, that's the that's kind of how you find out the why. Right? You and you have to build on. A lot of people don't know how to dream, and coach leaders are fantastic at helping somebody start to dream. And the reason they don't dreams, nobody's ever taught them how to reach their dreams. All right. They've never been shown up, never had somebody come alongside him and say, Hey, you can do these three things, your performance is going to go up. We're going to pay more. And when you get paid more and you learn these skills, that means you can get promoted in need. And maybe someday you want to run your own business and you've got to learn all these steps in order to coach people on your own team someday. So if your dream is that, let's do it. 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Lengthier, Ziglar by Neil, they're calling them their T O M C, I G L A R D and stay connected here to us here all unscripted and unscripted leadership of all social media platforms. Check us out. Our website has for the past leadership dot com. Of course, download and listen to this episode will be available all streaming platforms. Again, we say thank you to our amazing feature special guests today Tom Sager, who had an amazing conversation with us about how to build a legacy business that keeps growing. As always, we pray that you be the leader that God has called you to be. We're here to build bridges and not walls. Bridges connect, walls divide. Until next time, God Bless.