How To Go From Management Mess To Leadership Success! Feat. Scott Miller

Authentic Leadership podcast, a podcast you are seeking to lead change while also seeking to understand we're also there as a platform for leaders to come together to unite, to develop and empower other leaders in the areas of business, family, life and community. I am your host, La'Fayette Lane. Joined by my co-host John LeBrun, and today we are joined by our special guest, Scott J. Miller. Put those hands together, put those clap emoji's in the comment section. Scott has joined us today to have an incredible conversation on how to go from management mess to leadership success. A little bit about Scott. He is a former CMO and EVP of thought leadership. Keynote speaker, number one, bestselling author, podcast host, creator of Ignite Your Genius Career Coaching and Massive Success book series. And today he has joined us right here on unscripted. Scott, thanks for coming on. Lafayette, thank you for the platform, John. Thank you for the spotlight. Honored to be here. Absolutely. Let's get right into the conversation. Scott, I'm interested to hear about your back story on this. This whole book that has really sparked my attention. Grab me, you're very interesting just researching and studying you on management mess to leadership success. Give us your backstory on how you even got to where you are today. Sure. So as we discussed off air, I'm I'm 53 years old. I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. I'm from Florida originally. My wife, Stephanie, and I have three sons that are, let's see, seven, nine and eleven. Don't do that. Don't have three boys in five years. three boys. This spread them out a little bit. Originally, I'm from Orlando, Florida. I worked for The Walt Disney Company for years where they then invited me to leave, which is kind of how they do it at Disney. They don't find anybody, they just invite you to leave the wealthy. It's laughing, and John kind of sobered up there, but that's what happened. So here I am. 26 years old and out of a job, I'm a bit of a jerk. And where does this single Catholic boy from Orlando move? Well, of course, to Utah, Provo, Utah, where all the Catholics are right now. No, not a single Catholic in Utah. 25 years ago, so I move across country. Recruited by Dr. Stephen Archive, the very famous leadership expert and the author of the book, the seminal book The seven Habits of Highly Effective People and 2025 Years in the Firm, moved from the front line to the C-suite, became the global chief marketing officer, went on to become a multi bestselling author. I host the world's largest weekly leadership podcast hits about 7 million people every Tuesday. My blog, I write an article for Inc magazine. My primary job is to raise three gentlemen and a not so gentlemanly world. And like I said, I'm honored to be joining you two class acts today. Wow, incredible, incredible. I want to ask you, because something really caught my eye that really resonates with our podcast that you said on your website about how we can be unfiltered leaders, that we live in a filter culture. We talk about authenticity, obviously unscripted, bringing being yourself, being authentic self and leadership. Can you unpack that statement when you talked about being an unfiltered leader and a filter culture? Sure. So I mean, it kind of like I said it right is, you know, I worked for and was an officer in a public company with, you know, fiduciary responsibility was a named executive officer. The seat the SEC watches you very closely. And although I don't have a challenge with my ethics, you know, I tend to say what's on my mind and I don't have much of a filter, and I've learned the hard way that not every thought should be an expressed right that not everything I think should always be said, and which is probably why my human resource file is an expandable folder. As you know, there are a couple of infractions. Nothing illegal or immoral, but sometimes ill advised. But you know, it's tough to be a leader of people. Not everyone should lead people. I was an executive in the world's most influential leadership development firm, Franklin Covey Company, for decades, and I'm not sure I should have been the leader of people is why I wrote this book called Management Mess to Leadership Success. Because just like Lafayette, not everyone should be a commercial airline pilot, and not everyone should be an anesthesiologist. Not everyone should be a leader of people, and too often organizations make the mistake of promoting top individual producers. You become leaders of people, and those skills are often inversely correlated. So the book management best you leadership success, which is the first book in the ten volume best success series, kind of showed you the underbelly of leadership. And if you are going to be a leader of people, there's 30 challenges that you're going to face like me. And so I teach them valuable lessons for anybody who is or planning to be a leader of people. Wow, so so everybody shouldn't be leading people. Absolutely not. Yeah, we always say on on the podcast that everybody's a leader. Well, but go ahead, Scott. Go ahead. I didn't mean interrupt you, but I think everybody is a leader. You can lead yourself. You can lead a project, you can lead your brand, you can lead the culture, you can lead lots of things. But that doesn't mean that you're calling that your passion, that your skills is to be a formal leader of people. I fundamentally do not believe everyone should be a leader. People, just like everyone, not everyone should be a electrician or a plumber or a thoracic surgeon, right? We all have our colleagues who might have differences in most organizations. The only way to get promoted is to become a leader of people. So what happens is a lot of companies, large and small, promote the most efficient dental hygienist or the most creative digital designer or the top nursing salesperson to become the leader of their teams. And they often implode because what got him into the position they're in is a very different set of skills than what it helps to lead people. I can riff on that later. But yes, everyone is the leader. Not everyone should be a leader of people. So again, I remember my first corporate job in a big company and there was a promotion coming up and I was a decent production type of person, you know, installing certain softwares and so forth. There was a couple that were better. It wasn't bad, but there were some that were better. But this promotion came up. I got promoted and I remember hearing murmurs of, well, this person did more. They were able to do it faster. I thought, that's why you didn't get it. It wasn't about, can you do more? Yeah. I mean, I did more than the average, but I would agree. I wasn't necessarily the fastest person with the keyboard knocking out the projects, although I was always dedicated. But the difference was how do you handle problems? How do you help other people? How do you help people who aren't on your project complete theirs? And I'm sure that other individual who didn't get it, I'm thinking of is doing great now, but that was a prime example. He was amazing at doing the production work. I mean, top producer. But you probably get rewarded for it. Yeah, you just nailed it, right? It's oftentimes the best leaders are those that can think big picture. They just diffuse conflict. They model high character. They can ignite the genius of other people. They're good at communicating. They may, in many cases, not be the expert at the job that both leaders can't do the job of the people they're leading. That isn't their job. So I wrote the book mainly because I wanted to tell people don't ever be shamed into passing over a leadership job. Work for an organization that has an alternative path for individual producers to earn more money, have more influence because too often companies make the mistake of they promote their top producers. That person gets into the leadership job and realizes, Oh, leadership, this is about having high courage conversations. This is about moving outside my comfort zone. This is about hiring and firing people. Yeah. No. Thank you. And they quit because they never stepped back to their previous job because their ego doesn't allow them. And now the company has lost their top producer and they've lost their leadership pipeline when what they should have been doing is that you suggested? What are the characteristics of the type of leaders we want to have? And where should we find them inside the organization or outside the organization? So I see this personal responsibility in here and recognizing what you can do and can do. But what about the responsibility of the corporation then to say, Hey, not the only people that get promotions or really increases in pay don't have to only be the ones going into leadership right there. Bear responsibility, say, look, we've got to reward these guys who are top producers in what they do without having to take that management role. It's such a piercing insight because there is massive culpability, but I'd argue that the vast majority of the responsibility lies in the organization to make sure that they're profiling the right people that they have identified. What are the skills we need in the leader? The skills that are required to be a sales leader are fundamentally different. What's required in a sales producer? Now, you probably should have some sales experience, but it may be that your top producing salesperson is absolutely likely not the right person to be a sales leader. I mean, think about it, a top producing salesperson is usually hyper competitive. Do you want your sales leader in competition with her team? Know your top producing salesperson is usually quite interested in and in the the spotlight and the fame and the attention. That's a good thing. You want your top salesperson to be at the top of the leaderboard. You do not want yourselves later to be craving the fame and the attention. You want them turning the light onto their team and lifting them up. So I think just a little bit more deliberation inside organizations to set out what are the competencies we want in our leaders. And by the way, it might be the top producing person, but don't go there first. Step back and maybe have the conversation front. We're thinking about grooming you for a leadership position right at the top of the leaderboard in your team. You do this, this and this really well. Let me remind you, those skills are invaluable in your current role. But those are not the skills that will make you successful in a leadership role that you may have to lead . Many of those skills behind and adopt new skills that quite frankly, right now you don't have. Let's have a conversation and see, is this the right career transition for you? And to your point, if not, let's make sure that we retain you by having a path for influence, promotion and compensation that allows you to stay here because we do value people other than just those that choose a formal leadership path. Mm hmm. So what would you say to to that leader that feels like they've hit a brick wall that feels like they they want to quit? Or we hear this term often now that word burnout that that leader that has not the creative juices are not there. The creative genius is not being tapped into. What would you say to that leader to try to reignite them? Well, I would say the same thing to a leader of people that would say to an individual producer because it's easy to get burnt out regardless of what your title is or what your responsibility is right is. Welcome to humanity. You're not alone that it's important that you recognize that that a post-pandemic skill is agility is mental nimbleness is to recognize that you have to disrupt yourself. You have to act before you are acted upon. I kind of hate this phrase because it's offensive, but it's absolutely true. And that is, you're never in the room when your career is decided for you. And that is the case with the vast majority of people, other people are deciding your career for you when you're not in the room with them. Are you are you not qualified? Should we? Should we not take a risk on you? So for people who are burnt out, I think you have to recognize that you've got to disrupt yourself. You have to act on yourself before somebody else acts upon you that that life is short. You know, your job is your career. Your career is not your life. Mm-Hmm. And I can attest to that because I was married. I was 41. I was single till I was 41. And for 15 years, my career defined who I was, it was my identity. This is often very common with males, sometimes more so than females, and definitely more common when you're single as opposed to when you're married. So I just remind everybody listening to your podcast, you are more than your job. You're more than your title. You're more than your paycheck. You're more than what your boss may or may not think about you. And don't let someone else define your self esteem, your self-confidence, your self-worth or your marketplace work. Always be digging. Your will. Always be stretching your skills. Always be reinventing yourself. Because then this allows you to be in complete control of your career and never turn it over to somebody else. The saying your career is what you do and who you are. Essentially, it's so true. I have to say I'm an engineer, it's what I do, it's not who I am. I heard someone say that nicely said, especially in a capitalistic society in America, no one in Italy is defined by their job title. No one in Portugal, no one in Spain. These people are living their lives and families and relationships and legacies and America to our benefit. You know, we are workaholics and we're very much defined by our professional contribution. So it's a dangerous slope. It doesn't mean you shouldn't work hard and and and pay the price. Be very careful because this adage is true. No one on their deathbed said they'd wish they'd spent more time at the office. Hmm. Oh, my. I wasn't my quote, someone much wiser said that, you know, I had a mentor once I was talking about something , Hey, I'm going to try and get one more of these spreadsheets done before I'm out of here. He's like, Hey, don't don't rush it too much. When we're when we die, you're not going to be like, Man, I wish I would've knocked out a couple more spreadsheets. So it's really funny. Isn't that true? Can I can I build on that real quick? Yes. Yes. Know I've written many books. I speak around the world frequently, and I've come to listen to so many clients that I know a couple of things are true. Every company is now a technology company. I don't care if you're selling flowers on a corner, whether you're selling wedding dresses or restaurants. Every company is now a technology company and every company is in the same business. You're in the people business. Mm-Hmm. You're in the relationship business, but do not confuse people as your most valuable asset. Let's debunk this human resource myth. People are not an organization's most valuable asset. It's the relationships between those people that are your ultimate competitive advantage because you cannot have an engineer who you know, got a black belt and six Sigma, you can have someone who's got a Rhodes Scholar designation from Oxford. They can be the two geniuses in the world. But if they can't get along and complimented, forgive and forget each other, I don't need them. Every business is in the business of relationships internally and externally. And that may sound like some leadership. Hokey, pokey, whatever, whatever. It's not. It's absolutely true. You are in the business of developing relationships with your clients, your vendors, your suppliers, your employees, your competitors, all of that. As a leader, your number one job is to build relationships inside your organization. Hmm. Because people don't quit leaders who love them. People don't go across the street for one more dollar an hour or for more grand a year or beer on tap on Thursdays. If their leader loves them, love them, meaning you care about them and you give them feedback on their blind spots and you coach them and you listen to them and you care about them. People don't quit. Leaders who love them. Scott, how important is ownership as in in leadership? Because what I see in our culture is that when something goes wrong, I'm talking about leaders that are visibly seen. There's the reflection. So it's always someone else's fault. How important? How important is it that we exemplifies leaders that ownership, even when something goes wrong, we taking ownership and leading by example that the people that are following us. Well, it's sort of axiomatic, isn't it? I mean, you won't work for someone who passes the buck on you. You don't respect someone who blames other people. I mean, Dr. Cosby said it best be a light, not a judge, be a model, not a critic. It's why leadership isn't for everyone because everyone wants that mantle of responsibility, do they? About modeling, not gossiping, modeling, being punctual, modeling excuse free apologies, modeling the phrase I own this. I'm responsible. These are fundamental leadership competencies. You have to model the behavior you want to see in all of your team members. This is that this is a this is a significant job. Not everybody's upset. Not everybody wants to model transparency and vulnerability, but everybody wants to own their mistakes. It's why I wrote the book management mess to leadership success because as a leader, it's your job to own your methods and everybody's got them. And everybody knows that you've got everybody's talking about your messes, so you might as well own them because as a leader. When you own your mess, you make it safe for others to own theirs. Not to license bad behavior or to condone, but to make it OK to talk about the mistakes you've made as a leader, you should be teaching through your mistakes. You should be humble enough and confident to say, Hey, you mcgavin around. We tell you the biggest sales deal I ever lost. Let me tell you what I did wrong. We tell you about the time. My marriage almost fell apart, fell apart. Whatever's appropriate in the setting right may be that was not appropriate for a workplace setting, but maybe it is because maybe there's a leadership lesson to be taught. Confident leaders are capable of humility. Semen flows out of confidence. It's arrogant leaders that are incapable of owning their mistakes of the past, the buck, I'll tell you. Leadership is, I think, defined by vulnerability. Vulnerability is not a weakness. It's a strength. Vulnerability is a leadership competency to be able to say, Here's what I did wrong. There was a mistake I made. Here's why I dropped the ball. Here's how you can learn from me. I think it's the great leaders of the world that teach their their mistakes more so than they do their successes. So what would you say then to the person who's in leadership voting in the leadership, something he says I want to be, I want to be humble enough to teach for my mistakes, but they're apprehensive. And typically that would come from probably their self-image, something like, yeah, what can they do to grow in that area? Like, how do you get that better self-image to be confident and comfortable saying This was me? Oops. Yeah. Well, so first, remember that. Do remember the adage that humble leaders are more concerned with what is right? Van being right. Mm hmm. So lock yourself into every situation by progressing my own agenda because it's too late to back down. Am I progressing this idea? Because it was mine? It's too embarrassing. I guess humble leaders are more concerned with what is right than being right. So into the situation, recognizing that sometime admitting your mistakes actually allows others to meet theirs. Now, sometimes that vulnerability is dangerous because. The various people might choose to weaponize it against you. They may not know that about you, they may not know that this is a weakness of yours or a fear of yours, and some people will use that against you. Be prepared was hard. You'll fast move on, those aren't your people. Mm hmm. I think that there's a new generation of people entering the workforce that want to be relatable to their boss. Gone are the days when you've got 40 stories in a building and there is this elevator for the C-suite. That's all over. That's all over. Organizations are flat and they're like this and people want to be able to relate to their leader. So I would say. one of the smartest things I've ever heard is quote, people think. You don't know. They do. End quote. Everybody knows your fears, everybody knows your strings, everybody knows everyone can guess your credit score to the closest points, everyone can guess what your strengths and weaknesses are, just own them. I tell to it's a breath of fresh air to walk into a room to say, you know. I have a challenge with this, I'm not so great at this, I'm trying to build it up, but everybody knows this and and I'd like to learn from you all. As a leader, you are a model of behavior if you want to see in your colleagues and you know what? To your point, most people aren't thinking about you. They're thinking about themselves. So don't be so caught up in what everyone is thinking about you. Because when you admit some of your mistakes, people are and all of you, they're thinking, Wow, that person secure. That person is confident. I want to be like that person. I don't really think much about what people think about me. I try to champion my mistakes. I try to talk about my failures. I hope my failures. I talk them on. I'm a stutterer. I'm a lifelong stutterer. I have a really pronounced stutter. It's crippling for much of my life. I've had braces three times and head gear and retainers Invisalign. I've had speech pathology all my life. I have two speech coaches are 36 words I cannot play in public. I talk about it a lot, because if I can talk about that. You can talk about anything. This doesn't mean to go around gratuitously confessing all your sins, writer open, come on, right? There is such a thing as over disclosure. There is such a thing as, you know, me being so vulnerable that nothing is safe with you because you'll talk about anything. Not everyone has that level of self-confidence or in some cases, lack a filter. Be judicious. Mm hmm. Be a light. Let a judge be a model, not a critic. I think there's a there's a fine line between explaining your obstacles that you went through to help for someone's benefit versus unloading your garbage in the Saudis trash can. Right? Well, they're carrying that on their shoulders later. Yeah, wow. I can't believe he went through that. This is terrible. Yeah. You know the difference? Yeah, exactly. Right, right? Know your audience. Know your circumstance. No. Is this a teachable moment that will leave them inspired versus weighed down? As you just mentioned, it takes it takes intellectual intelligence, it takes emotional intelligence, it takes self-awareness. It takes reading the room. Yeah, but I think that that term leadership success is mostly used and it's kind of a term that we just throw out. How would you define what leadership success is? You know, John Maxwell, the famous leadership author, was a guest on my podcast once. And he says, if you're a leader and you look behind you and no one's following you, you're a hiker. And I think that was a great summation, right? Is, you know, I think a leader's job is in, Dr. Covey said this. This is for him to be credited a leader. His job is to communicate to others their worth and potential. So clearly that they come to believe it in themselves. That's profound. Liz Wiseman wrote a book called Multipliers My Favorite Leadership Book Ever, I strongly advise it to all your listeners and viewers multipliers. And Liz says that a leader is Java for us is to not be the genius in the room, but to be the genius maker of others as a leader. Your job is to uncover, discover, ignite the genius and others and be comfortable and confident having them grow beyond you. Earn more money than you eclipse you in the organization. Your job is to recruit and retain and pollinate talent that it takes a secure person. I wasn't always that person. It takes a secure person to know, are you multiplying talent? Are you the genius or are you the genius maker of others? Go ahead. Go ahead. I was marinating on it, I love it. Having the self-confidence to be OK with allowing other people to be further than you within that specific. Area. Go ahead. No, no, please, John, continue like obviously, some people are going to outgrow you in certain areas, but if you're the one that actually enable them and help them get there to outgrow you, then maybe your gift is helping people become better and they're and what they should be doing in their gifts, right? You just might be the best soccer player, but we can be the best coach of the best soccer players. You just defined leadership, which is why it isn't for everyone. Some people want to and need to be the star goalie. That's great. We need a goalie, right? We need that person. You know, I, after 30 years in the leadership business, as an author, as a speaker, as a leader who has struggled and failed and succeeded as an officer in the world's most influential leadership development firm, I've come to believe the following is not very popular. I do not think a leader is number one job is mission vision values and systems strategies. And processes, those things are very important. I think a leader is number one job is to recruit and retain quality talent, recruit and retain quality talent, especially right now in the grand the great resignation. But not just retain them. And your division, but to pollinate them throughout the organization. I know a lot of leaders that have the highest performing teams because they keep all the talent on their team. But instead of just retaining the talent your team. Find out where would they be best suited inside the organization, take off your functional hat and put on your organizational have number one job of a leader, recruit and retain people, pollinate them by hiring people smarter than you. Hire people that are more talented than you as the chief marketing officer for years. I didn't do that. I thought my job was to be the creative genius in the room. My job was to be the expert on SEO and Google Analytics said What PMS cover is here and marketing automation. And so I'll tell you, I think I was threatened by people who I thought might eclipse me. So I did not hire people consciously, but I thought would show me up. Because I lacked the maturity, and I don't think I did that. I don't think it was, I don't think it was a conscious decision, but maybe it was. But it wasn't until I read Liz Wiseman's book multipliers that I realized that I was actually doing a disservice to our company and our clients and our shareholders because I was fearful of being eclipsed by people who were smarter than me . And then literally one night. 15 years later than I should have, it dawned on me. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. My job is to hire everyone who is smarter than me, who is noticeably palpably more talented by me and not be threatened by them, but to cut the red tape and to clear the path for them and to make sure they get their voice heard in the company so they choose to stay here. And it's easy for me to say this, but I'll tell your listeners and viewers. I didn't learn that until I was about 48 years old. I didn't practice it in about 50 years old. Because I was threatened by them, I felt like, you know, people might say, well, why is Scott the CMO ought to be Charlie ought to be Tina. I thought every culture rewards that do they let every culture rewards you? Being the leader of people that eclipse you, some companies will say, well, we don't need you or he's more talented or she is more talented than you are. So you've got to be thoughtful about that, that at the end of the day, your job is as a leader to recruit and retain people who are palpably noticeably more talented than you are. That takes some courage. Amazing. How important is it, Scott, for leaders to have mentors? Well, it's fundamental. I mean, it's ironic you say that because just last week I published a new book called Master Mentors Transformative Insights from our greatest minds 30 of the smartest people I've had of my podcast because I don't know any leader that hasn't achieved success by having a coach or a mentor. Now, it might be formal. Might be informal. But a mentor is someone that knows the difference between being being smart and being wise. A mentor is someone that has taken the wisdom from their journey. And decided which of that might you benefit from? Because I don't have your personality. I don't have your net worth. I don't have your education. I don't have your passions. You know, you can't replicate what a mentor has done. A mentor realizes that their job is not to turn you into. There are many me. Their job is to ask big, bold questions help you discover your why? What are you trying to do? And then teach through their own journey? Mentorship is foundational to growing your self-awareness. To knowing what it's like to work for you, work with you, work around you, be married to you, date you co-host a podcast with you. Everyone should have mentors in their life and it doesn't mean they're older than you. It doesn't mean they're wealthier than you. I'll tell you, I learned more about how to stay married from people who are divorced, but people who've been married for 40 years. I learned more about how to grow my business. People who've had bankruptcies than those that have made $40 million. Mentorship does not need to come from the richest, smartest, most successful person in your world. It might become for the person who's had the most failures, but they can identify for you the potholes that you're going to experience ahead of you and help you walk around them. And by the way, everyone listening should also be a mentor because reciprocal mentorship is something that is also foundational to leadership. OK, so our most popular episode ever was on mentorship. It was literally called mentorship and still still today by three or four times more than any other episode. Soon to be eclipsed by this interview, but go ahead. Yes, yes. Then until until until a month from now and then. So can you explain to somebody? I think most people we talked about informal versus formal mentorship, but I think most people are most interested in a formal mentor. Yes, and I think for multiple reasons. But part of it is probably relational. Like as as being a man, you know, you're seeking somebody who's sim, who can, who can you can talk into and they can sort of pour into your life. And vice versa, I think, is a two way street personally. But can you explain talk, talk to that a little bit. Just unpack that for a minute. If so, what I'm saying, I need a formal mentor. How do I find one? How do I find the right one? All those things. Do I pay for a mentor? Do all those things? Yeah, no. You don't pay for a mentor. You usually pay for a coach. That's a different by very nature of being a mentor. You usually have wisdom. You usually have an abundance mentality. Right? Your desire is to help other people. But here's how I'd say a process is reasonable to consider one. You've got to decide what is it you're trying to do? Ask yourself. What am I trying to do? Am I trying to get promoted by trying to move to Australia? Am I trying to take this business from six figures or seven figures? Am I trying to patent this product? What is it I'm trying to do? You have to get clear on that. Once you are clear on. What I am trying to do. Then you can figure out who can help you do that. By the way, it might not be a person who's done that. If I be a person who's done something similar to that or someone who blazed a similar trail on a different idea, so it doesn't mean that, you know if you're trying to open a restaurant. Your best mentor might not be a restauranteur. It might be someone else now it likely is, but doesn't necessarily mean it's that person. Is there a lot of foundational business principles that cross sectors, don't they? I mean, I know a lot of people that can be successful restaurateurs. They can also be successful at a retail gig or at a wholesale gig, right? Because they understand the nature of business. So first, is it clear on what it is you're trying to do? And then you've got to ask because people can't help you if they don't know, you need help. So move past your comfort zone and reach out. LinkedIn Chamber of Commerce email. I don't care how big of a successful you are, successful entrepreneur, how big your celebrity. Everybody's doing the same thing at 9:15 at night. Everyone's lay in their bed watching International House hunters looking through their Instagram. Everyone's doing the same thing, right? Everyone's got an email. Everyone's got social media. Everyone's got LinkedIn. I don't care if you're, you know, if you're damn pink or Seth Godin or General McChrystal or you name it. Everyone said they scrolled through their LinkedIn Instagram set and they were fired for their spouse or their partner, lamenting their troubles for the day. Even in nursing a cocktail, maybe they're not. But people can't help, you don't reach out. I have no fear I'll reach out to anybody. You know, I had a book Matthew McConaughey, Typekit Will Smith, Typekit Doris Kearns Goodwin. You know, my podcast was like your podcast, right? Growing and influential Matthew McConaughey? I just asked. What you should do also is you should define parameters, declare your intent. Hey, John, I really trying to grow this business, I'm struggling with these four areas. I ask you a favor. Could you mentor me? For six weeks. 30 minutes a week for six weeks, no more. I'm not going to ask you to borrow any money. I'm not going to ask you for any induction introductions. I'm not going to try to get my paws into your Rolodex. I just want to ask you some questions on six areas. At the end of six weeks, we're done. Good fences make good neighbors, right? So when it came to me, ask me that say I'm up, I got six, I got I got six, 30 minute sessions . I don't, by the way, but if I knew what your intent was and there was no like secret ulterior motive or you really wanted me to give you $1,000,000 at the end of six weeks, I'll sign up for it. You got to ask. People cannot help you if they don't know how. Hmm. Wow. Scott, before we get into the book, can you just leave our audience one last piece of advice unless John, you had another question, now you can. OK? Scott, can you give our audience one last word or one last piece of advice? Yeah, right. Can do it in two minutes. Absolutely. So Dr. Steven Our Covey, who is the founder of our firm, he's passed about ten years from now in his 80th year. You wrote, as I mentioned, the seminal book The seven Habits of Highly Effective People. This book built a multi-billion dollar global enterprise. He sold 40 million copies of this book and 50 plus languages. As the chief marketing officer, I was often interviewed by the press on what they called the book The seven Habits of Highly Efficient People. No, the book was the seven habits of highly effective people. Not the seven habits of highly efficient people. There's a difference between being effective and being efficient. one is not better than the other, they're just different. As you probably can tell, I am a highly efficient person. Much of my professional success in life has been from my sort of outrageous productivity.

00 a.m., I write my weekly ink column from four to five. I write my weekly blog from five to six.

30. I'm an entrepreneur and an author. I'm a podcaster and a speaker of a businessman, if you will, from, you know, seven. 35. I'm a dad again from five to seven. And you get the point, right? And that annoying neighbor that gets up Saturday at 5:00, my lawn is raped by six. It's mowed by seven. The flowers by eight. The cars wash by nine. I'm ready for breakfast and tennis by ten by day has just gotten started. I am a highly efficient person. Problem is, it's that efficiency mindset that I move into all of my relationships because gentlemen and listeners, you cannot be efficient with people. You can only be effective. As Dr. Covey said, with people, fast is slow. And slow is fast. Such a degree, and if your listeners are like me. Horrifyingly, so no win to be efficient, taking out the garbage, washing the car with some email. Maybe your social media and know when to be effective and when to shut your computer, take off your Apple Watch. Turn off your phone and check in because every business is the technology business and every business is in the people and relationship. That's your top job. Know when to be efficient and when to slow down and be effective. The struggle for me. You can tell this is a big struggle for me because I try to build relationships lot too fast. I'm always living in the future with people and people can feel it right. I'm a very anxious personality. No one is ever ever invited me to deliver the eulogy at a funeral ain't happening. Evacuate a burning building. I'm your guide. Know your strengths, know your weaknesses and be comfortable talking about them. Wow, that was incredible. Yes, it was. Oh, this is going to kick mentors, you know what, a month from now? Yeah, now that blessed me because I think sometimes I'm the efficient need to be more like that person in, probably within my own marriage. You're all right, honey. Let's get this going. And I was thinking, I'm doing it with my wife. Yes, being transparent, you know. I mean. You know why? first of all, self awareness is half the battle, right? Because that's probably the skill that's giving you lots of success in many areas of your life. Don't stop doing that. Just know when your strength becomes a weakness because you've overplayed it or you played it in the wrong role in life. And catch yourself, catch yourself, honey. I'm sorry. I then my efficiency, but I got to step back. I'm sorry. You just acknowledge and talk about it. Make it part of your vocabulary. How many of us do that within a conversation? Right? It's quite difficult to plan, and you might say, no, I need to give people. Yes. I'm not going to tell you all to purchase because I want to play you best investment he's got. Yes, you make that investment in yourself. Management met that mess to leadership, success and master caterers. God, you've told us about the books all throughout the episode. Was there anything else that you want to add to why they should invest? Well, I think you've done a good job of that, too. As you know, I have a prolific reader. I like to write most authors write the book that they needed to read. And so my first book was management masked leadership success. The second book in that series was marketing best to brand success. And next year I'm launching a job next to career success, followed by communication best to influence success if the master mentor is just came out. Great highlight 30 of my most influential podcasts. Yes, this is the first book in a ten volume series.

30 new guests will be out in 2022, followed by eight business test series for you now. Some interesting so much that people follow me on social media, but they have expected me again at the end of the day just to own your mess because when you do, you make it safe for others to out there. Yes. Connect with Scott on Instagram and LinkedIn. His handlers at Scott Premiere J. one, Facebook Scott Miller Check out that Amazing Podcast on leadership podcast as well. And always stay connected. We have more of your own unscripted on our various social media platforms Facebook, YouTube, the late there we're on script offensive leadership podcast, unscripted lead on Twitter or Instagram handle is ActionScript leadership. You can listen to this amazing episode of this podcast or any podcast platforms where podcasts are provided. As always, stay connected to us on unscripted. That's leadership dot com. Interested in joining the Mastermind Group, a place where you can be bored and to pour out others network vision paths? You can do all that unscripted best leadership dot com. Again, we say Thank you, Scott, for having this amazing conversation with us today. How to go from management class to leadership success. As always, we pray that you be the leader that God has created you to be. We're here to build bridges and not walls. Until next time, God bless.