Mastering Leadership in a Multigenerational Workforce

WEBVTT

00:00:01.622 --> 00:00:11.367
Welcome everyone to the latest episode of the you Unleash podcast with Femi Akiyemi, your host, and this week I've got a special special guest.

00:00:11.367 --> 00:00:49.783
Now, one of the big things we know is that leadership is everything, and the thing for a lot of us is, when we think about leadership, we think about, oh, it's the big boss, it's someone who's the CEO, but we don't think about the more nuanced parts of leadership, which is we ourselves are leaders, in our families, in our homes, in our team, but we play a role in the team and people look to us for direction sometimes.

00:00:49.783 --> 00:00:58.429
So we are all leaders, and sometimes it's transient, which is for a moment in time, and sometimes you are permanently the leader.

00:00:58.429 --> 00:01:07.581
But either way, there is a responsibility for all of us to see ourselves as leaders and embrace the moment and realize that it's all part of growth.

00:01:08.183 --> 00:01:17.745
So this week I've got one of my favorite guests who had one of our highest viewings from our last time he was a guest here who is Eddie Turner.

00:01:17.745 --> 00:01:28.316
He is the author of of an amazing book called 140 Simple Messages to Guide Emerging Leaders.

00:01:28.316 --> 00:01:43.850
Boyd is also a leadership expert and he's taken part in loads of leadership conferences, which is where I met him and he does lots of consultancy, speaks in leadership, leadership is in his blood and he's here to share his thoughts on us.

00:01:43.850 --> 00:01:47.251
Hi, eddie, welcome to the Unleashed podcast.

00:01:47.251 --> 00:01:47.760
Thanks for having you.

00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:49.704
Femi, thank you for having me.

00:01:49.704 --> 00:01:51.189
What a pleasure to be here with you.

00:01:53.781 --> 00:01:54.644
No, it's a pleasure as well.

00:01:54.644 --> 00:01:55.585
Thanks for coming.

00:01:55.585 --> 00:02:00.862
When I started to think about the guests I'm going to invite back, I thought about you.

00:02:00.862 --> 00:02:03.727
So leadership is close to your heart.

00:02:03.727 --> 00:02:04.908
Tell me.

00:02:04.908 --> 00:02:07.030
I know the answer, but tell our listeners.

00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:10.274
Why is leadership so such?

00:02:10.274 --> 00:02:12.635
Because I know it's everything you talk about.

00:02:14.340 --> 00:02:17.474
Why are you so passionate about leadership?

00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:46.212
I became passionate about leadership because I have suffered from being under so many poor leaders and so literally it became one of those things where we experience it at every level of our life, from the time we're young be it examples that we see in family or places of worship or in our community or people we looked up to as heroes to the point of later when we're in the workplace.

00:02:47.340 --> 00:02:59.787
There's just been so many bad examples of leadership and it has a real impact on us and sometimes people might think, oh, people are too young or they're a kid, they don't know, they don't understand.

00:02:59.787 --> 00:03:10.606
But it really does, both in a positive and a negative way, and so I have my own opinions about what things should look like, what good leadership is, but my opinion doesn't mean anything.

00:03:10.606 --> 00:03:27.242
So I started to, through research, through school, going to university and such, really get scholastic, scholarly definitions of what leadership is, and in many ways it reaffirmed my opinions.

00:03:27.242 --> 00:03:31.841
And in other ways there were new concepts, certainly, that I never knew anything about.

00:03:31.841 --> 00:03:49.949
That I did learn about, and the more I learned, I just devoured it because I felt like, wow, when we make better leaders in the world, we make a better world because we make better people, and those people impact so many individuals and the impact is exponential.

00:03:52.033 --> 00:03:53.217
No, I agree with you.

00:03:53.217 --> 00:04:04.402
I think one of my things with leadership and that a lot of people say, and I think that holds a lot of us back is because you've studied it, which tells me it's something that can be studied, and if it can be studied it means it can be taught.

00:04:04.402 --> 00:04:11.989
But what a lot of us have grown to believe is that leadership is you're either a born leader or you're not.

00:04:11.989 --> 00:04:14.479
Is that what your studies kind of told you?

00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:21.184
Because you see some people, you go somewhere and some people are certainly charismatic, they just have that glow and everyone follows.

00:04:21.184 --> 00:04:23.509
But for a lot of people, we go in and we go.

00:04:23.509 --> 00:04:24.110
He's got it.

00:04:24.110 --> 00:04:25.781
I haven't, so I'm not a leader.

00:04:25.781 --> 00:04:28.507
What are you finding when it comes to leadership?

00:04:28.507 --> 00:04:31.072
Is it taught or is it caught?

00:04:31.072 --> 00:04:32.762
Or are leaders born?

00:04:32.762 --> 00:04:34.045
Why are you finding them in leadership?

00:04:34.045 --> 00:04:35.026
The?

00:04:35.148 --> 00:04:41.850
idea is something that many of us feel, because we look at some people and they look so natural, so effortless.

00:04:41.850 --> 00:04:51.793
When we see them in motion and how they comport themselves, how they move about, we think that person just has always had it kind of like you know some other quality.

00:04:51.793 --> 00:04:55.831
But it is something that can be taught.

00:04:55.831 --> 00:05:05.350
It is something that some people perhaps gravitate to more naturally than others, but it is something that is within the auspice of almost everyone.

00:05:05.350 --> 00:05:19.266
I say almost everyone because Jim Kouzes and Barry Posner in their landmark book, the Leadership Circle, rather the Leadership Challenge I always get confused because there's an assessment.

00:05:19.266 --> 00:05:25.608
The Leadership Circle is the assessment, leadership Challenge is the book, and that book is in its seventh edition now.

00:05:25.608 --> 00:05:38.716
And in their research what they say is only one in a million people has no leadership capacity whatsoever, only one in a million.

00:05:39.536 --> 00:05:40.237
So think about that.

00:05:40.237 --> 00:05:44.446
So virtually nobody, almost nobody, everybody has leadership.

00:05:44.980 --> 00:06:04.514
Well, in the United States I know you're broadcasting from London, so I don't know the population of London, but in the United States we have about 350 million people and so by using their statistic we're saying that maybe only 350 people in the country have zero capacity whatsoever.

00:06:04.514 --> 00:06:08.490
Right, but everyone else they have some capacity.

00:06:08.490 --> 00:06:10.687
Now we might like to get to a beverage.

00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:18.588
Many of us may enjoy a bottle of soda or pop, depending on which part of the country you're in, what phrase you use.

00:06:18.588 --> 00:06:27.528
But if we get a can of Coke, a cola or Sprite, sometimes it's a I like the little seven ounces because a little bit less sugar.

00:06:27.528 --> 00:06:36.485
Some friends are like the 12 ounce, some want a big 20 ounce, but when we no matter what size, it's still that amount of soda.

00:06:36.485 --> 00:06:40.408
So we think about everybody, almost everybody, having the ability to lead.

00:06:40.408 --> 00:06:50.726
It is that not that everybody's going to be a 20 ounce, but some will be that 12, some will be that seven, but there's some capacity to lead.

00:06:50.726 --> 00:07:07.565
And so, whatever our capacity is, the challenge is that we all use and develop ourselves to whatever our capacity is, and a great number of us will find that we can actually grow the capacity far beyond what we thought we could.

00:07:09.850 --> 00:07:13.444
So it sounds to me like we've all got leadership capacity, but it's also.

00:07:13.444 --> 00:07:15.389
It's a muscle, it's like an elastic.

00:07:15.389 --> 00:07:23.351
When you lead up to your present capacity, all of a sudden you discover you have capacity to do just a bit more.

00:07:23.351 --> 00:07:25.627
But then you grow and then you grow.

00:07:25.627 --> 00:07:28.666
So it's leadership capacity can grow as well.

00:07:28.666 --> 00:07:33.545
We've all got it and we can grow it as well, right, we can, and that's the key word we can.

00:07:33.644 --> 00:07:53.786
For some people they don't, because what happens is Dr Ron Heifetz at the Harvard Kennedy School defines this we hit the frontier of our capacity and for some people, when they hit that, it's like a brick wall and then they crumble, whereas others say I need to develop, I can't get past this layer.

00:07:53.786 --> 00:08:03.009
And so they bring in a coach, an executive coach, and they develop one-on-one so they can break down that wall and get to the next level.

00:08:03.009 --> 00:08:11.468
Others decide, hey, I need to go for some more training, so I'm going to enroll in some kind of a program, I'm going to go back to the university and get a new degree.

00:08:11.468 --> 00:08:16.692
But they realize that they need to go beyond their current level of competency.

00:08:17.880 --> 00:08:22.473
Now Dr Carol Dweck defines that as having the growth mindset.

00:08:22.473 --> 00:08:24.987
So in her landmark, work right.

00:08:24.987 --> 00:08:28.281
Because some people will say well, I am what I am, hey, this is just all I can do.

00:08:28.281 --> 00:08:35.875
Fixed, I got something for you, you got it Excellent, that's the key.

00:08:35.875 --> 00:08:41.471
So not having a fixed mindset will allow us to grow and develop our leadership capacity.

00:08:41.471 --> 00:08:44.369
But those who have the fixed mindset, they kind of stop.

00:08:44.369 --> 00:08:48.530
But the growth mindset says I can do more, I will do more.

00:08:51.380 --> 00:09:03.423
And to add to that, the mindset is, as a leader, is that always see that there is room to grow and see yourself as not the finished article.

00:09:03.423 --> 00:09:10.091
And as long as you do that, even if you're low capacity, high capacity, you can always grow for leadership.

00:09:10.091 --> 00:09:15.399
Yes, I'm sorry, no, no, no, that was it.

00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:15.919
Yeah, you go.

00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:18.191
Go yeah, and that requires humility.

00:09:18.465 --> 00:09:22.995
I was talking to one of my clients and I love the way she explained it.

00:09:22.995 --> 00:09:40.811
When we're talking about the accomplishments that she has, and she's this incredible senior leader who's run a billion-dollar portfolio across continents, and she does not approach anything with the attitude that I'm an expert, I don't need to ask questions.

00:09:40.811 --> 00:09:48.500
She approaches it with what we call the childlike mind, that of curiosity, always asking questions.

00:09:48.500 --> 00:09:50.508
And so the quote is and I forget who says it in the child's mind, the childlike mind, that of curiosity, always asking questions.

00:09:50.508 --> 00:09:55.080
And so the quote is and I forget who says it in the child's mind, the childlike mind, there are many options.

00:09:55.080 --> 00:10:06.451
In the expert's mind, there are few, because the expert comes in, I have all the answers and if it's not in my head, I'm not going to consult anybody outside of my head, right?

00:10:06.451 --> 00:10:24.357
Whereas that person that approaches it with a childlike mind, that growth mindset, they're going to remain humble, and humility leads to learning and that's how, as leaders, we continue to grow in ways it's not always about our knowledge, it's about our questions.

00:10:27.607 --> 00:10:32.837
And I love those leaders, but I hate those leaders because they're the ones who always ask.

00:10:32.837 --> 00:10:42.635
When you're in a meeting, they always ask that question where you think, dang, they got me, because they're so humble and they ask even the silly questions.

00:10:42.635 --> 00:10:47.235
The ones who are experts come in and they don't ask anything because they think they know it all.

00:10:47.235 --> 00:10:53.649
But the best leaders, you're right, they'll just ask oh so what happens if we do that, what happens if we do this?

00:10:53.649 --> 00:10:57.393
And they're just curious and you end up thinking they're geniuses.

00:10:57.393 --> 00:10:59.472
But they kind of are, but they're kind of not.

00:10:59.472 --> 00:11:02.465
What they're doing is they're just being humble and they're exploring.

00:11:02.465 --> 00:11:08.394
So the best leaders are always exploring, checking everything and trying to find out more and find out more.

00:11:09.277 --> 00:11:09.576
Indeed.

00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:25.932
Yeah, so we spoke about three years ago, so I was curious to know since then, have your views on leadership changed, or do you, or are you even more?

00:11:25.932 --> 00:11:30.787
Have your thoughts on leadership evolved, or are you even more sure about what you had there?

00:11:30.787 --> 00:11:36.046
Or were you a young author who was naive and you know so much more about leadership now?

00:11:36.046 --> 00:11:38.552
Or what have you learned in the last three years?

00:11:38.552 --> 00:11:39.395
I guess the question.

00:11:40.986 --> 00:11:57.471
Well, I think I would say I try to take my own medicine and have a growth mindset, stay curious and keep growing, and so, absolutely, I've learned more about leadership in the time since we've talked and I continue to do my own research and continue, obviously, working with clients, learning from my great clients.

00:11:58.293 --> 00:12:11.836
When I'm coaching them and helping them have those aha moments and generate insights and generate solutions, I end up going through the same process with them and I think that also, obviously, our world has changed.

00:12:11.836 --> 00:12:14.932
We weren't challenged with AI, for example.

00:12:14.932 --> 00:12:16.517
Last time you and I talked.

00:12:16.517 --> 00:12:29.065
It was around, but it wasn't as dominant as it is today, and what that is doing is it's an immediate opportunity for leaders.

00:12:29.065 --> 00:12:51.451
Some might say it's an immediate threat, but it's an immediate opportunity, I believe, for leaders to understand the need, all the more so, to develop their leadership capacity, because are you going to allow artificial intelligence to dominate you in your workplace or are you going to allow what some might call real intelligence, one of my guests said, to dominate?

00:12:51.451 --> 00:12:54.743
Well, to do that and we need it, we don't want to run from it.

00:12:54.743 --> 00:13:02.207
It is certainly a tool of the future, but we have to, all the more so, develop ourselves as leaders, to distinguish ourselves from a machine.

00:13:03.711 --> 00:13:09.706
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and that's a big challenge for leaders to overcome.

00:13:09.706 --> 00:13:13.788
That's coming, and for all of us actually in our different fields who are aspiring leaders.

00:13:13.788 --> 00:13:23.275
So one of the questions I had for you because I was looking through your book and you said leadership starts in the youth and more and more you read everywhere.

00:13:23.275 --> 00:13:39.230
You hear about quiet, quitting, you hear about just generational wars in the workplace and, from a leadership perspective, what are you finding are the challenges leaders are facing Having five generations.

00:13:39.230 --> 00:13:46.096
You have the boomers, you have Gen Zs, you have millennials and very soon the Gen Afas in the workplace.

00:13:46.096 --> 00:13:51.208
What is the big sort of learning or challenge that we're finding in leadership in the workplace?

00:13:51.208 --> 00:14:10.677
And I ask because as you talk I want you to sort of touch on a lot of our listeners are like millennials or Gen Zs or Gen Xs is what are the things we can learn that can help us lead better in the workplace, considering the difference generationally in the workplace?

00:14:12.085 --> 00:14:12.586
Interesting.

00:14:12.586 --> 00:14:29.019
So, with the different generations in the workplace, the idea of how we show up matters, and it is a need for us to, number one, respect all levels of the generations.

00:14:29.019 --> 00:14:33.947
The younger ones want to respect the older ones and not feel like, hey, what does this person know?

00:14:33.947 --> 00:14:36.936
Or I'm a lot faster with technology, what can they tell me?

00:14:36.936 --> 00:14:44.134
And then the older ones don't want to be dismissive of the younger generation from the standpoint of, oh, these young people have so much to learn.

00:14:44.134 --> 00:14:48.215
Each group can learn from the others mutually.

00:14:48.215 --> 00:14:55.658
That said, it creates a different set of expectations of what does good work look like and what does good leadership look like.

00:14:55.658 --> 00:14:58.553
You know, one came from a command and control generation.

00:14:58.553 --> 00:15:08.738
I've been here longer, I'm older, therefore you should do what I say, whereas now sometimes an older person might find the person that's very young as their boss.

00:15:08.738 --> 00:15:26.659
That's tough to digest, and so there's different norms that we have to deal with from that standpoint and creating the workplace culture that celebrates that and creates the proper expectations.

00:15:26.659 --> 00:15:33.577
Then we look at, when we're talking about how that makes us a leader, in a different way.

00:15:33.577 --> 00:15:35.270
How do I show up?

00:15:35.270 --> 00:15:54.369
You know, there's this one concept of as you develop as a leader, it really means developing, means you're changing, and sometimes, as you change, other people might assault the new you.

00:15:54.369 --> 00:16:03.626
For example, we all are familiar, perhaps growing up, when you had that smart kid in class who sometimes didn't want to show up as smart as they really were.

00:16:03.626 --> 00:16:06.409
They tried to play it down so they could fit in.

00:16:06.409 --> 00:16:10.008
They didn't want kids to call them the nerd or some of these other phrases they call them.

00:16:10.008 --> 00:16:12.234
Well, that doesn't just apply in school.

00:16:12.234 --> 00:16:13.725
Sometimes that applies in the workplace.

00:16:13.725 --> 00:16:17.413
And so some people might want to say, hey, I want to keep it real.

00:16:17.413 --> 00:16:21.668
So well, they know they should be doing better, acting better.

00:16:21.668 --> 00:16:24.456
They don't that person who gets.

00:16:24.456 --> 00:16:26.346
They were cool with everybody on the team.

00:16:26.346 --> 00:16:29.730
Now they get promoted, they still want to be cool with everybody on the team.

00:16:29.730 --> 00:16:33.072
Don't realize that, hey, no, I'm now the leader of this team.

00:16:33.072 --> 00:16:34.975
I need to show up a little differently.

00:16:34.975 --> 00:16:37.957
And they're afraid that people say, oh, now you sold out.

00:16:37.957 --> 00:16:40.681
Now you got the new promotion, now you want to be different.

00:16:40.681 --> 00:16:51.778
Well, I am different because now, hey, when they got that promotion, they sent them to a management program, they sent them to a leadership program, and now they learned hey, I need to comport myself in this way.

00:16:51.778 --> 00:16:55.975
I'm no longer an individual contributor, I am now leading and managing.

00:16:55.975 --> 00:16:58.173
I must therefore comport myself differently.

00:16:58.173 --> 00:17:10.152
And so Herminia Ibarra I was thinking of her name, noted professor, and I believe she's based in London, like you, she, I forget.

00:17:10.172 --> 00:17:18.696
I believe she's based in London, like you, I forget what she said, but she says in her work you want to have adaptive authenticity.

00:17:18.696 --> 00:17:25.651
Adaptive authenticity meaning that I can still be me, but I learned how to adapt.

00:17:25.651 --> 00:17:36.653
And because I've changed, because I've grown as a result of this leadership development, it doesn't mean that I am not being authentic.

00:17:36.653 --> 00:17:39.679
I'm still me, but here's the new me.

00:17:39.679 --> 00:17:43.634
And now, as I show up, I'm showing up as a person who knows better.

00:17:43.634 --> 00:17:45.076
Therefore, I'm doing better.

00:17:48.227 --> 00:17:53.462
You make a good point because I've had a personal experience, and this is one I like.

00:17:53.462 --> 00:17:55.147
This is where you can almost coach me.

00:17:55.147 --> 00:17:56.171
Real time is.

00:17:56.171 --> 00:17:56.913
So.

00:17:56.913 --> 00:18:24.381
I was leading the team and my personality is quite collaborative, but I found that, even being collaborative, collaborative and non-confrontational I struggled to get them to buy in and it went against my personality, which is it felt like they needed a command and control, but that's not my personality and that.

00:18:24.381 --> 00:18:41.551
But it was also a generational thing, which is a generation, which is is probably they were really young millennials, if you want to put it that way, really young millennials, or yeah, and I am, and I'm an older millennial, if you want to call it that, and getting that.

00:18:41.551 --> 00:18:42.653
That clash was there.

00:18:42.653 --> 00:18:50.436
I was trying to be collaborative, but it felt like that's not what they wanted, and so how would you have suggested I overcome that?

00:18:52.186 --> 00:18:52.930
That's a great question.

00:18:52.930 --> 00:19:05.035
One of the concepts that Dr Barra mentions is this idea that when you're talking about adaptive authenticity is that you experiment with different leadership styles.

00:19:05.035 --> 00:19:10.491
So not only are you going to be growing and developing as a leader, but you're not going to stick with one style.

00:19:10.491 --> 00:19:24.934
Daniel Goldman, in his landmark work in Harvard Business Review, when he introduced the idea of emotional intelligence, he used the illustration of a golf bag and I love that article because in that golf bag he talks about that.

00:19:24.954 --> 00:19:26.018
You use different clubs.

00:19:26.018 --> 00:19:28.152
Now, I'm not a golfer, but I do know this.

00:19:28.152 --> 00:19:31.790
I know the difference between a driver and a putter.

00:19:31.790 --> 00:19:38.592
When you start off on the golf course, you don't pull out a putter at the smallest club.

00:19:38.592 --> 00:19:46.230
You pull out that big driver and you reach back and you swing that as hard as you can so you can sail that ball onto the green.

00:19:46.230 --> 00:19:59.652
And if you end up in the sand, you pull out a little sand wedge, dig it out a little bit Different parts of the course, there's different clubs and finally at the end you pull out that putter for a nice soft tap.

00:20:00.665 --> 00:20:15.615
And when it comes to leadership styles, he defines seven styles we should use as leaders and that you don't use one all the time but depending on circumstances, you need to pull out the appropriate club or the appropriate leadership style for that circumstance.

00:20:15.615 --> 00:20:21.176
So in the case that you just mentioned, you would be pulling out the club.

00:20:21.176 --> 00:20:23.750
That means that you have to be a little bit more.

00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:32.288
I don't want to say dictatorial, I forget the phrase that he used but essentially you are, because you're more demanding, you're more driving.

00:20:32.288 --> 00:20:45.490
In this case you use this in a situation usually of great urgency mergers and acquisitions or when there are disruptive employees, rebellious employees you pull out that club.

00:20:46.025 --> 00:20:50.798
But if you use that club all the time, with everybody just swinging on people, you won't be an effective leader club.

00:20:50.798 --> 00:20:54.386
But if you use that club all the time, with everybody just swinging on people, you won't be an effective leader.

00:20:54.386 --> 00:20:55.912
You'll be a miserable leader who's reviled.

00:20:55.912 --> 00:20:57.296
So you use that when you need to.

00:20:57.296 --> 00:21:04.934
But your more dominant club might be the one that he calls affiliative, that friendly leader, that leader who's emotionally intelligent.

00:21:04.934 --> 00:21:11.653
But then you might also use the democratic one, where you allow people to weigh in, sometimes on decision making.

00:21:11.653 --> 00:21:17.416
But there are other times when you can't do that too much, because then people say well, hey, you're the leader.

00:21:17.416 --> 00:21:20.025
You make the decision, you make the call Right.

00:21:20.025 --> 00:21:39.391
So it's a matter of adopting a dominant style that you might prefer, but knowing when you need to reach in your golf bag and pull out the necessary club for the circumstance or for the individual, because sometimes it's at an individual level and not necessarily a team level no, that makes a lot of sense.

00:21:39.431 --> 00:21:39.892
Thanks for that.

00:21:39.892 --> 00:21:41.335
That makes a lot of sense.

00:21:41.335 --> 00:21:52.487
So you've got to read, read your team and adapt to the goals and objectives and the personalities of your team to achieve what you want as well.

00:21:52.487 --> 00:21:57.459
Absolutely so many and the deadlines and and so many things.

00:21:57.459 --> 00:21:58.425
That makes a lot of sense.

00:21:58.425 --> 00:22:16.452
So, which brings us to my next, next question, which is one of the things a lot of people I've spoken to struggle with, is managing upwards managing, managing your managers, and you can get tyrannical bosses, all kinds of bosses and a lot of us struggle to manage our managers.

00:22:16.452 --> 00:22:22.476
How can we manage our managers to make sure we get what we want and they get what they want as well?

00:22:23.726 --> 00:22:26.115
I think that you just gave the answer in that question.

00:22:26.115 --> 00:22:33.320
You make sure they get what they want and usually when you do that, you get what you want.

00:22:33.320 --> 00:22:42.548
I say usually because you have some people that it's all about them and they never have a concept of reciprocity, where they're going to then give you what you want.

00:22:42.548 --> 00:22:47.287
And when you have those kind of managers and I've had a couple there's not a whole lot you can do.

00:22:47.287 --> 00:22:55.511
In those cases it's their next slot and it's time to go.

00:22:55.571 --> 00:22:58.817
I mean and you're right, I mean as simplistically, that's the goal.

00:22:58.817 --> 00:23:00.390
The goal is I help you get what you want.

00:23:00.390 --> 00:23:07.770
You have me get what I want and that's why they have their objectives and they pass it down to me and when I run my objectives I tie it into their objectives.

00:23:07.770 --> 00:23:24.858
But in the daily dynamics, the daily working together, how do we, especially when you've got different personalities, how do you work together to make sure we both get what we want and the relationship works?

00:23:26.385 --> 00:23:26.625
Yeah.

00:23:26.625 --> 00:23:55.855
So once you know what your manager's mandate is, which is hopefully tied to the organizational mandate and hopefully you're hearing that because the ceo is doing an all employees meeting, where you're hearing it directly from the ceo or you're seeing it in the company literature there's those should all match and then someone, be it your immediate manager, which is where it should come from is helping you understand your unique role in making that all come to fruition.

00:23:55.855 --> 00:24:10.130
So you are doing what you're asked to do by your manager, by the organization, and then typically the reward for that obviously is simply just a paycheck, but then other leaders recognize that this is more than a number.

00:24:10.130 --> 00:24:13.545
I'm going to give this employee more than just a paycheck, but then other leaders recognize that this is more than a number.

00:24:13.545 --> 00:24:15.627
I'm going to give this employee more than just a paycheck.

00:24:15.627 --> 00:24:18.193
I'm going to give this employee the training that they need, the development that they need.

00:24:18.193 --> 00:24:25.387
Or, in some cases, as you have parents aging, this employee may need a little bit more time to deal with the aging parent or to deal with the newborn.

00:24:25.387 --> 00:24:31.885
There should be a handshaking and a collective awareness that we both need to help and support each other.

00:24:32.448 --> 00:24:35.155
One of my friends, uh, who I just had a call with earlier?

00:24:35.155 --> 00:24:37.162
Uh, greg williams.

00:24:37.162 --> 00:24:39.728
Uh, he calls himself the mass negotiator.

00:24:39.728 --> 00:24:47.230
His catchphrase is you're always negotiating, and that is really what it is whenever you're doing anything at work.

00:24:47.230 --> 00:24:58.708
All, all day, every day, we are negotiating, and in a negotiation except an employer-employee relationship the employer always gets what they want.

00:24:58.708 --> 00:25:02.471
But as an employee, your hope would be that somebody does not get everything they want.

00:25:02.471 --> 00:25:19.067
In negotiations, by definition, people kind of meet in the middle, and so I didn't get all of what I wanted, you didn't get all of what you wanted, and usually that means it was a great negotiated outcome.

00:25:19.087 --> 00:25:19.288
No, I agree.

00:25:19.288 --> 00:25:26.854
So between you and your line manager, which we call here, it's that constant negotiation and it's constantly moving.

00:25:26.854 --> 00:25:33.940
But I guess, if I put you on the spot, if I drill down on this, is you could have a manager who's just their way of managing this.

00:25:33.940 --> 00:25:40.849
They micromanage, they micromanage, they're all over you.

00:25:40.849 --> 00:25:48.491
I won't say they don't trust you, but they just have to be all over you and you don't work that way and you've got to find a way to work together.

00:25:48.491 --> 00:25:52.662
You and you don't work that way and you've got to find a way to work together.

00:25:52.662 --> 00:25:53.765
And how do you?

00:26:00.746 --> 00:26:02.532
are there tools you can use to help you manage your manager?

00:26:02.532 --> 00:26:12.606
Yes, so if negotiation doesn't work, the other option is simply asking for feedback, and when I say asking for feedback, using a specific feedback mechanism, one I like to use is SBI situation behavior impact.

00:26:12.606 --> 00:26:32.077
You know, feming, when you give me a set of tasks and you tell me exactly what you want done, but then you follow up with me literally 30 minutes afterwards before I've even had a chance to properly execute, or you describe the behaviors, and the behaviors you describe are not an opinion.

00:26:32.077 --> 00:26:38.357
It's what can be seen on a video recorder or we can hear, right, so these are facts.

00:26:38.357 --> 00:26:45.478
So situation behavior the impact on me is it makes me feel like you don't trust me.

00:26:45.478 --> 00:26:47.148
So I'm never wrong for my feelings, right?

00:26:47.148 --> 00:26:48.434
So situation behavior impact yes, because they're my feelings.

00:26:48.434 --> 00:26:50.061
Yes, so I'm never wrong for my feelings, right.

00:26:50.061 --> 00:26:52.007
So situation behavior that's my feeling.

00:26:52.007 --> 00:26:53.810
Yes, so I would.

00:26:53.810 --> 00:26:54.593
I would use that.

00:26:54.593 --> 00:26:58.409
You let them, let your manager know, and perhaps they'll make an adjustment.

00:26:58.849 --> 00:27:16.694
When that doesn't work, sometimes your HR department may have some options and sometimes it might be a 360 feedback mechanism where maybe, if you're feeling this way, other people are feeling that way, and when the manager is assessed and they get that 360 feedback and this is oftentimes when I get called in.

00:27:16.694 --> 00:27:24.573
It's amazing how they see that, and one of my leaders ended up saying this I've been a real blank blank.

00:27:24.573 --> 00:27:28.472
Insert the expletive Right.

00:27:28.472 --> 00:27:33.037
The witness hit her because of that instrument.

00:27:33.037 --> 00:27:36.836
Before that, she thought she was just amazing and doing great work as a leader.

00:27:36.836 --> 00:27:46.953
It took seeing that information from everybody around her because it wasn't just her employees, it was also peers in management that she really needed to make some adjustments.

00:27:46.953 --> 00:27:54.098
So I would say those are three options that I would share with someone who's having that challenge when it comes to managing your manager.

00:27:54.605 --> 00:28:03.018
In all cases, the goal should be, however, that we do the best that we can to not let someone else's behavior change us Right, and that's hard.

00:28:03.018 --> 00:28:04.559
Yes, that's really hard.

00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.596
You know one of my previous lines of work I was very much into scripture.

00:28:07.596 --> 00:28:16.154
One of my previous lines of work I was very much into scripture and one of my favorite scriptures said even a mere oppression makes even a wise man act like a fool.

00:28:16.154 --> 00:28:24.671
So when we're being oppressed or we feel like we're being oppressed by our leader, our manager yeah, now I'm going to come out my bag.

00:28:24.671 --> 00:28:31.990
That's hard, right, because now it's like I know I shouldn't, but I just got to.

00:28:31.990 --> 00:28:37.010
You know, stand up for myself, or whatever right you start to act crazy.

00:28:37.112 --> 00:28:38.375
You start to think you're losing it.

00:28:38.375 --> 00:28:44.994
No, that's yeah, yeah, okay, so we're coming to the end, but I want to talk about this one as well.

00:28:44.994 --> 00:28:52.973
So a lot of our listeners are black, black minorities, a lot of our listeners.

00:28:52.973 --> 00:29:06.013
And we've got women, we've got black, we've got young people, people who see themselves as in the minority in the workplace, and for a lot of them, for a lot of us, it is ascending into leadership.

00:29:06.013 --> 00:29:07.416
There's so many challenges.

00:29:07.416 --> 00:29:20.641
So what unique challenge in your experience coaching, mentoring what unique challenges do we all face and how can we turn these into opportunities or how can we grow in these areas?

00:29:22.465 --> 00:29:25.955
Thank you for sharing that demographic there, so that's very helpful.

00:29:25.955 --> 00:29:35.079
One of the challenges I think we face as minorities is especially along this ideal of being authentic is being too authentic.

00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:44.174
So there's a there's such a thing as maybe I want to come across as one of the fellas, I want to come across as one of the ladies and one of the team players.

00:29:44.174 --> 00:29:50.255
So we share too much information and if we share too much about ourselves, that's not always helpful.

00:29:50.255 --> 00:29:54.926
But in other the other side of that, the antithesis is also not helpful.

00:29:54.926 --> 00:29:58.977
We're too guarded, so we don't let anybody in and know anything about us.

00:29:58.977 --> 00:30:02.371
So we have to find what's the proper balance.

00:30:03.693 --> 00:30:12.246
Sometimes, when it comes to promotions not sometimes all the time when it comes to promotions we promote who we like and we like who we know.

00:30:12.246 --> 00:30:25.134
And so, as the minorities, oftentimes we aren't known by the senior leaders, and we aren't known for a lot of reasons, but in some cases it's simply because they don't know enough about us.

00:30:25.134 --> 00:30:26.968
Yeah, I didn't know that that's.

00:30:26.968 --> 00:30:29.997
That's, that's Eddie over there in the mailing room.

00:30:29.997 --> 00:30:35.269
But we don't know that Eddie has other skills that we could probably start to let Eddie do this type of work.

00:30:36.846 --> 00:30:41.148
But if we knew that we might, but we're not good at building relationships, so they know us.

00:30:41.750 --> 00:30:42.011
Yes.

00:30:42.011 --> 00:30:53.865
So start to be able to reveal things about yourself in the right amount, to the right doses, to where you build relationships with people and they know you as more than just a number.

00:30:53.865 --> 00:30:59.237
They can build a rapport with you and then that can lead to growth.

00:30:59.237 --> 00:31:03.692
The second piece I'd say related to that is get a mentor as soon as you can.

00:31:03.692 --> 00:31:06.365
That's one thing I didn't know and I wish I knew sooner.

00:31:06.365 --> 00:31:14.093
You need a mentor, somebody who can guide you along and teach you what you don't know, and remembering that we don't know what we don't know.

00:31:14.093 --> 00:31:17.211
So stay humble, get a mentor as soon as possible.

00:31:17.724 --> 00:31:21.916
And last but not least, carla Harris, the most powerful black woman on Wall Street in America.

00:31:21.916 --> 00:31:30.075
She says you can go very far in your career without having a mentor, but you won't go anywhere without having a sponsor.

00:31:30.075 --> 00:31:33.409
So having a mentor is important, if you can get one, but you absolutely need a sponsor.

00:31:33.409 --> 00:31:36.132
So having a mentor is important if you can get one, but you absolutely need a sponsor.

00:31:36.132 --> 00:31:51.606
And the sponsor is the person who's in that room when you aren't there, when your name is coming up or when your name doesn't come up, is able to bring your name to the table and start to tell others about you, so that that is how you get the opportunities you need.

00:31:51.606 --> 00:31:57.934
When somebody spends their institutional capital on you, well, to do that they have to know about you.

00:31:59.198 --> 00:32:02.688
Yeah, yes, no, this is some really good stuff.

00:32:02.688 --> 00:32:04.095
You're dropping some nuggets here.

00:32:04.095 --> 00:32:07.249
So the other thing you mentioned is authentic leadership, right?

00:32:07.249 --> 00:32:09.213
So are you spoken about?

00:32:09.213 --> 00:32:19.878
So how important is authenticity for minority leaders and especially, how can we maintain it in environments where there's a pressure to conform?

00:32:19.878 --> 00:32:23.214
So, for a lot of us, we have to wear masks in the workplace.

00:32:23.214 --> 00:32:32.895
Maybe it's with our hair, maybe it's with where we walk, with the way we dress, the way we talk, and then we end up blending in and losing ourselves.

00:32:32.895 --> 00:32:43.598
How can we find that balance of making sure we and you spoke about this earlier be authentic and yet blend in.

00:32:44.404 --> 00:32:45.990
Well, we have far more options for that.

00:32:45.990 --> 00:32:46.313
Today.

00:32:46.313 --> 00:32:50.792
We were talking about being authentic, it's being real who we are, but then also does that grow, does that develop?

00:32:50.792 --> 00:32:53.305
So, for example, who we are, but then also does that girl, does that develop?

00:32:53.305 --> 00:32:58.540
So, for example, many years ago, you know, we all had to wear suits to work.

00:32:58.540 --> 00:33:02.536
That's no longer a requirement that you have to wear a suit or a dress to work.

00:33:02.536 --> 00:33:08.775
Now you have far more flexibility in how you come to work, so that allows you to be authentically who you are.

00:33:08.775 --> 00:33:12.653
If you want to wear a shirt and a tie, you wear a shirt and a tie.

00:33:12.653 --> 00:33:14.768
You want to just wear open collar open collar.

00:33:14.768 --> 00:33:16.432
You want to wear a dress?

00:33:16.432 --> 00:33:17.054
No dress.

00:33:17.054 --> 00:33:18.857
Dress shoes no dress shoes.

00:33:18.857 --> 00:33:20.948
Loud colors no colors.

00:33:20.948 --> 00:33:24.196
Right, I have no hair, so we won't even talk about hairstyles.

00:33:24.196 --> 00:33:31.689
But, right, we have more options that were not available before, things that are more socially acceptable.

00:33:32.393 --> 00:33:38.746
There was a time that if you showed up, one of my female clients was talking about if you showed up at work, you could have a nice business suit on.

00:33:38.787 --> 00:33:40.930
If you didn't have my stockings, you were sent home.

00:33:40.930 --> 00:33:43.449
That just wouldn't happen today.

00:33:43.449 --> 00:33:47.008
So I think it's a little easier for people to show up authentically who they are.

00:33:47.008 --> 00:33:50.107
Because you're not going to be sent home because you have dreadlocks.

00:33:50.107 --> 00:33:57.298
You're not going to be sent home because you want to openly put the picture of your lover who is not a heterosexual on your desk.

00:33:57.859 --> 00:34:05.693
You know there was a time that everybody else would have their lover and family on the desk, but you couldn't because you're gay right, and so you couldn't put your lover on the desk.

00:34:05.693 --> 00:34:16.501
So people have a lot more ability to show up as who they really are at work, and if they can bring more of themselves to work right now, they can really be more comfortable at work and be more productive at work.

00:34:16.501 --> 00:34:37.317
So that balance of being authentically who you are, being able to show my richness of my color, the richness of my heritage, the beauty of my family on display that means a lot to people and that is one of the things that allows you to truly still be authentic in the right way as you lead.

00:34:39.286 --> 00:34:49.411
It's interesting you say that because, conversely, people don't like a fake and people can spot a fake and if you're a fake, they know it.

00:34:49.411 --> 00:35:02.789
So the people I know who are minorities and leaders the best of them they have a way of actually being themselves and people know who they are and people just trust them because people know they're real.

00:35:02.789 --> 00:35:07.610
And there's a lot who just try to blend in.

00:35:07.610 --> 00:35:14.666
They change their accents, they change the way they dress and they end up coming up as fake and people just don't trust them.

00:35:16.228 --> 00:35:19.456
Yeah, I mean, it's like in the United States.

00:35:19.456 --> 00:35:20.637
I would use a different denomination.

00:35:20.637 --> 00:35:27.347
I don't know the denominations in pounds, but you know a fake coin and not only do we reject it, we resent it.

00:35:27.347 --> 00:35:30.096
It's like they tried to get me this, Like I wouldn't know what was real.

00:35:31.264 --> 00:35:33.632
Right, it's an insult, and that's how it is.

00:35:33.632 --> 00:35:42.092
When someone comes into our presence and they are being counterfeit, we reject it, and then it's an insult to us, right.

00:35:42.092 --> 00:35:59.277
And so when we talk about I used the phrase be real earlier it wasn't the sense of I'm going to put on airs, right, or I'm not going to show up as I really can because I want to fit in, and in other cases it's the opposite I try to put on airs to show up and be somebody who I'm not.

00:35:59.277 --> 00:36:03.556
That gets exhausting, and for a long time black people have had to deal with that.

00:36:03.556 --> 00:36:10.387
For example, there was an article in the New York Times that talked about the allostatic load, and it was this pressure.

00:36:10.387 --> 00:36:48.853
It was a measurement for the pressure that black people have to bear when they go to work, because there's different expectations on them that are not on others, and so the measurement was the allostatic load, and it was basically, at the end of the day, here's all the pressure they're on, and it talks about the weathering that takes place on them over time, prematurely wearing them out because of it, and so that desire to try to fit in and try to show up in a certain way yeah, we still have to do that to a degree, but to the degree we can take some of that pressure off ourself and just say I'm going to show up as I am.

00:36:49.186 --> 00:36:54.010
Yeah, we still grow and develop as a leader, but I'm not going to try to be somebody that I'm not.

00:36:54.010 --> 00:36:57.757
I'm not going to try to change my accent to your point Right Now.

00:36:57.757 --> 00:37:13.865
That doesn't mean that, hey, you know, I don't go to the barbershop anymore, but in the days where I used to go out to the barbershop, yeah, I might use a little bit of lingo that I don't use in the office, right.

00:37:13.865 --> 00:37:13.965
Yeah.

00:37:13.965 --> 00:37:22.353
Yeah, some people might say, hey, you're not being authentic, right, but I think authentic is I am who I am in my environment and I'm still the same person.

00:37:22.353 --> 00:37:24.652
But I realize I have to step it up a little bit more.

00:37:24.652 --> 00:37:26.751
Much like when we go to our place of worship.

00:37:26.751 --> 00:37:33.175
Right, we're going to go into our place of worship a certain way and then we're going to go to the grocery store.

00:37:34.284 --> 00:37:36.713
All right, god, we want to try a place of worship a certain way, and then we're going to go to the grocery store.

00:37:36.713 --> 00:37:38.818
I think the word is you can be authentic and yet be professional.

00:37:39.380 --> 00:37:46.739
Yes, and we're going back to Dr Abera's word adaptively authentic.

00:37:49.425 --> 00:37:52.306
Yeah, I love that because you're still yourself, but you're adapted.

00:37:52.306 --> 00:37:55.148
Yeah, I love that because you're still yourself, but you're adapted.

00:37:55.148 --> 00:37:58.869
So a couple more questions I have for you is building allies.

00:37:58.869 --> 00:38:11.815
So, as black people, as minorities as well, we've got to learn to build allies, and have you got any tips for how we can build allies in the workplace, among the different cultures and everyone in the workplace?

00:38:12.956 --> 00:38:13.436
It's interesting.

00:38:13.436 --> 00:38:21.340
You ask that I actually give a speech, a keynote, and the title is the Power of being an Ally.

00:38:21.340 --> 00:38:33.648
And when I talk about the power of being an ally, in answer to your question, it is literally that the people that have helped me most in my life, in my professional career, don't look like me.

00:38:33.648 --> 00:38:38.527
They've been white people, they've been white men, they've been white women.

00:38:38.527 --> 00:38:44.465
So allies can come from, and should come from, all walks of life, right.

00:38:44.465 --> 00:38:52.980
And then, with the power that has been invested in us, it's incumbent on us to then pay it forward to others.

00:38:52.980 --> 00:39:07.088
Invested in us, it's incumbent on us to then pay it forward to others, and so that's been my mission to help women, to help those who are lesbian, gay, straight, whatever it may be Less represented, right, those with disabilities, and so in my speech you're going to hear me talk about all those different groups.

00:39:07.931 --> 00:39:10.048
Now Is that speech available anywhere?

00:39:10.048 --> 00:39:13.445
Can the listeners go find the speech anywhere, or People can?

00:39:13.806 --> 00:39:17.257
find it by booking me to come and speak to the organization here.

00:39:19.907 --> 00:39:20.711
Okay, you'll share that.

00:39:21.025 --> 00:39:32.849
You'll share where people can find you after this, but yeah, so askatetourcom is where they can find out more about me, but I don't have that speech online, but that is a speech that I've given you know.

00:39:32.849 --> 00:39:39.219
For that reason, because I think that oftentimes we overlook those people when we're building a leadership pipeline.

00:39:39.219 --> 00:39:41.365
Right, for example, someone who has a disability?

00:39:41.365 --> 00:39:42.166
Maybe they're.

00:39:42.286 --> 00:39:46.409
I interviewed Haben Girma, the deafblind woman who conquered Harvard Law School.

00:39:46.409 --> 00:40:02.458
Right, because you know, here's a Harvard trained attorney who many people might look over at first glance and not know who she is, or that she's an educated, brilliant attorney, and that's what we do far too often.

00:40:02.458 --> 00:40:08.402
Right, so she is, she is a minority, but she's also a person with disabilities.

00:40:08.402 --> 00:40:14.210
You know, how do we then move these people into leadership?

00:40:14.210 --> 00:40:15.213
So that's, that's part of what I look at.

00:40:15.213 --> 00:40:34.693
We're talking about getting allies, so getting allies also speaks back to what I was saying earlier about your mentors, because your mentor will be your ally and your uh, your sponsor, and, of course, these people, um, historically, are the ones, the ones who have the seat of power in an organization, so, by definition, they're not going to look like you.

00:40:36.717 --> 00:40:43.559
No, that's right, and I think another way to build our lives I don't know if you find this is true is you've got to get involved outside of your job.

00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:50.418
You've got to try to get involved in committees and lots of other things going on in the workplace or in your community.

00:40:50.418 --> 00:40:53.746
You've got to get involved outside your sphere of influence.

00:40:53.746 --> 00:41:14.753
You've got to step outside your comfort zone to meet more people that are different to you, who have different interests, different values or different things, to increase your network and even if they can't help you, you help them Indeed, Because you never know when it's going to be the other way around and they can help you up.

00:41:15.355 --> 00:41:18.643
Indeed, your network is your net worth, right?

00:41:18.643 --> 00:41:23.128
Yeah, that's what it boils down to, and so we have to.

00:41:23.128 --> 00:41:33.021
I use the illustration at times that a close hand doesn't get fed right.

00:41:33.021 --> 00:41:36.974
I can't receive anything when my fist is closed, if I'm close-fisted.

00:41:36.974 --> 00:41:45.271
But when I open my hand, not only can somebody put something in it right but the important thing is I can give away.

00:41:45.271 --> 00:41:53.873
And so the more we give away, the more open-handed we are with our knowledge, with our time, with our resources, the more people can then also help us.

00:41:54.635 --> 00:42:11.731
So, being active, having a network, number one, but then active with that network, you don't just call when you need something, but you're actively trying to help people, support people because it's the right thing to do, and then that the law of reciprocity kicks in Something sells to the universe.

00:42:11.731 --> 00:42:13.981
You will then receive the help that you need.

00:42:13.981 --> 00:42:14.965
I'm a firm believer in that.

00:42:14.965 --> 00:42:33.168
So, nurturing your network, being active with that, and then being known for something, being known as a person who has a good reputation, for a character, but then you have a skill that when people think of this thing, you're the only person they think about, or you're the first or second person that they think about.

00:42:33.168 --> 00:42:35.030
So be known for your talent.

00:42:35.030 --> 00:42:39.838
Be known for your skill and if you're lacking that, figure out how you can develop it.

00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:46.367
Become the best at what you do and then you automatically start to rise to the top.

00:42:46.367 --> 00:42:53.974
Yeah, so I think what I've taken from that last point as well is at some point, capability is important in leadership.

00:42:53.974 --> 00:42:58.559
You can get away with inspiring people, but at some point you've got to be able to do stuff.

00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:10.811
You've got to be able to add value and solve problems, and then that turbocharges your leadership, because a leader who could solve problems and get people to follow, it's like gold dust in the marketplace, right?

00:43:11.072 --> 00:43:11.494
Absolutely.

00:43:11.494 --> 00:43:16.210
There's an attorney here in the States who was quoted on the news.

00:43:16.210 --> 00:43:22.588
She's a beautiful woman and she said that her friends asked her would you rather be beautiful or smart?

00:43:22.588 --> 00:43:33.617
She said oh, that's easy Beautiful, I can fake being smart, and so that's the attitude that some might take.

00:43:33.617 --> 00:43:42.052
But the point is, no matter how beautiful you are, how well packaged you are, at some point they will figure out that you're lacking the substance.

00:43:42.052 --> 00:43:48.393
And so, in the perfect scenario, boy, we would love to have that beauty.

00:43:48.393 --> 00:43:51.382
But to have the intelligence is far more important, because A beauty fades.

00:43:51.382 --> 00:43:52.483
We all get old, right, you and I didn't always lack hair, we had hair right.

00:43:52.483 --> 00:43:53.407
But to have the intelligence is far more important, because a beauty fades.

00:43:53.407 --> 00:43:56.077
We all get old, right, you and I didn't always like hair.

00:43:56.137 --> 00:44:06.409
We had here right we were the man back in our day, right, but yeah, but our intelligence, our intellect, that's not gonna fade.

00:44:06.409 --> 00:44:14.565
Fact that gets better and stronger the older we get right, and at a certain age, I guess atomic habits says I forget the number, but that starts to recede.

00:44:14.565 --> 00:44:17.394
But that will certainly last longer than our beauty will.

00:44:18.585 --> 00:44:19.510
Yeah, it is.

00:44:19.510 --> 00:44:23.911
So last question before I let you go Any advice for aspiring leaders.

00:44:23.911 --> 00:44:35.289
So what advice would you give to aspiring leaders from people who, ethnic, minorities, people who are just trying to make it as leaders and are coming up, who are trying to break make it as leaders and are coming up, who are trying to break through that glass ceiling and just get there?

00:44:35.289 --> 00:44:36.112
What advice?

00:44:36.112 --> 00:44:41.673
If you give them three things or whatever, or if less than three, however many, what would you advise?

00:44:41.693 --> 00:44:42.295
them.

00:44:42.295 --> 00:44:47.697
I would say what I basically said in my book, as the last quote is that number one believe that you are a leader.

00:44:47.697 --> 00:44:48.945
You are a leader.

00:44:48.945 --> 00:44:50.409
You don't have to wait to lead.

00:44:50.409 --> 00:44:51.791
You don't have to wait for a title.

00:44:51.791 --> 00:44:53.614
You lead by what you do.

00:44:53.614 --> 00:44:56.980
Every time you take the initiative to do something, you are leading.

00:44:56.980 --> 00:45:11.005
Every time you speak up and change a conversation or start a conversation in class, school work, in your congregation, in a place of worship, you are leading.

00:45:11.005 --> 00:45:13.846
So don't wait, lead.

00:45:13.846 --> 00:45:14.708
Don't sit back and be complacent.

00:45:14.708 --> 00:45:16.393
And that doesn't mean, by by the way, you have to be loud and boisterous.

00:45:16.393 --> 00:45:17.217
You can be a quiet, silent, introvert.

00:45:17.217 --> 00:45:26.440
Right then, lead by your actions, but by all means lead fantastic, amazing stuff.

00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:27.762
Thank you so much, eddie.

00:45:27.762 --> 00:45:29.748
It's been a pleasure having you.

00:45:29.748 --> 00:45:34.802
Where can the listeners who want to know more about leadership or want to follow you, where can they find you?

00:45:34.802 --> 00:45:37.186
Where can they get more from you If you want to know more about leadership?

00:45:37.206 --> 00:45:47.199
if you're looking for an executive coach or a keynote speaker or a leadership consultant to help your organization with a product, no matter where you are in the world, visit AskEddieTurnercom.

00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:50.815
Look for me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.

00:45:50.815 --> 00:45:53.413
I welcome you to connect with me.

00:45:53.413 --> 00:45:57.536
I welcome you to ask me for help.

00:45:57.536 --> 00:46:00.851
I'll give free 20-minute consultations to anybody anywhere.

00:46:00.851 --> 00:46:04.755
Outside of that, certainly we can work together and I look forward to it.

00:46:04.755 --> 00:46:06.771
And, Femi, thank you again for having me.

00:46:06.771 --> 00:46:10.793
What a pleasure to be with you a second time and I always love our interactions.

00:46:10.793 --> 00:46:12.329
You're doing great work out there.

00:46:12.329 --> 00:46:12.632
I love it.

00:46:15.286 --> 00:46:16.027
And I love what you're doing.

00:46:16.027 --> 00:46:19.831
No, thank you so much, and I think you've got a podcast as well that you can listen to as well.

00:46:20.432 --> 00:46:33.385
I do Keep Leading is the name of my show and the archive is still available about 140 episodes Right now.

00:46:33.405 --> 00:46:36.585
I've just recently started back over the last three months doing the live stream on LinkedIn.

00:46:36.585 --> 00:46:37.664
So it's all available, Eddie, thank you.

00:46:37.664 --> 00:46:41.885
So everyone, you heard it aspiring leaders just lead wherever you are.

00:46:41.885 --> 00:46:48.067
Lead, be bold and, even if you're an introvert, take actions but lead and build allies.

00:46:48.067 --> 00:47:01.168
Get a sponsor, learn to communicate openly with people of different generations but, above all, just lead and do it well and it'll make all the difference and you can unleash the leader within you.

00:47:01.168 --> 00:47:03.967
Thank you for listening and thanks, Eddie, for coming.

00:47:03.967 --> 00:47:06.668
Get unleashed and stay unleashed.

00:47:06.668 --> 00:47:41.693
You, Thank you.