Nov. 4, 2024

Thriving & Reviving Relationships: Insights from Kemi and Bode Olutunbi on Self-Love, Communication, and lasting intimacy

Thriving & Reviving Relationships: Insights from Kemi and Bode Olutunbi on Self-Love, Communication, and lasting intimacy
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Season 4

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Unlock the secrets of thriving relationships with Kemi and Bode Olutunbi on this special episode of the You Unleashed Podcast. This dynamic couple brings their passion for nurturing and enhancing both personal and communal bonds to the forefront, offering listeners a wealth of insights drawn from their own experiences as well as a foundational Harvard study. We promise you'll gain a deeper understanding of how strong, healthy relationships profoundly enrich mental, emotional, and physical well-being. It's all about starting with self-love and acceptance, which set the stage for successful, fulfilling life outcomes.

Join us as we unravel the essential elements of building healthy relationships, starting with self-awareness and the recognition of individual needs. Through compassionate communication and an open-hearted approach, Kemi and Bode share how transitioning from implicit assumptions to explicit understanding can transform interactions, fostering meaningful connections. Their wisdom, grounded in faith and personal growth, highlights the importance of vulnerability and authenticity, especially within marriage, and offers practical guidance for navigating co-parenting after separation.

As we journey through the importance of legacy and investing in future generations, this episode emphasizes creating a loving and supportive environment. Kemi and Bode offer a faith-based perspective on forming a shared identity and embracing an "us" paradigm, complete with actionable advice for couples keen on nourishing their partnerships. Don't miss the chance to learn from their invaluable experiences and discover how prioritizing your relationship can lead to personal and communal success. Get ready to inspire your path to healthier, happier connections.

Support the show

Chapters

00:18 - Importance of Healthy Relationships for Success

10:12 - Building Healthy Relationships Through Self-Awareness

15:58 - Enhancing Relationships Through Understanding Needs

19:45 - Foundations of a Good Marriage

22:53 - Building Vulnerability and Authentic Relationships

31:59 - Cultivating Healthy Marriages Through Growth

42:00 - Navigating Co-Parenting After Separation

51:28 - Investing in Future Generations Through Relationships

01:05:37 - Couples Devotional

Transcript
WEBVTT

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you unleashed podcast with Femi Akinyemi um, it's great to have you.

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And this week I've got a special, special episode.

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It's something different.

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We're going to have a three-way podcast but actually it's two-way because by the time we're done you'll understand.

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Because it's a podcast with an amazing couple who are passionate about relationships and marriages and communication.

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So they're a package, so they come as one, so really it's just a package with one person actually, and you'll find as you go how in sync they are, but it's a pleasure to have them.

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We'll be talking about marriage relationships, how we can all get better at it and how we can get better individually to get better at marriages and relationships as well, because relationships are the bedrock of every marriage.

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So we have Bode and Kemi, a husband and wife team who do life together at home and at work.

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They're passionate about supporting others in building healthy relationships and discovering their purpose in God.

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They lead the marriage ministry in their local church and have encouraged, taught and counseled and coached countless couples in building healthy church and have encouraged, taught and counseled and coached countless couples in building healthy marriages and homes.

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They've been involved in the marriage course and they're also one of the couples featured in the Marriage by Design, pre-marriage DVD series developed by Care for the Family, and they're also trained marriage consultants and behavioral consultants and they also train marriage consultants and behavioral consultants and they are always on conferences and seminars talking about relationships.

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Kemi and Bodhi, it's a pleasure to have you.

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Welcome to the Unleashed podcast.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Thank you so much, it's a delight.

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Thanks for having us no problem.

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So marriage is something and relationships, and we should probably start from relationships before we get into marriage, right, because even if you're not married, you almost certainly want to be in a healthy and fruitful relationship with whoever you are in.

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And this is quite important because we are all in relationships, whether it's at work, in business, in our local church, within our nuclear families and extended families.

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Relationships are the bedrock of society and life.

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Where there are two people, there's a relationship and to a certain extent, even with yourself you're in a relationship, which is another level.

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So I guess I've kind of seeded you up.

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But the question here is why are relationships?

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so important?

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That's such a good question because as we've touched on relationships, as we've experienced relationships, we've come to the conclusion it's not new that relationships are important because they have a positive impact on both our mental, emotional, physical, health and well-being.

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The reality is that if you're not happy in yourself or in your relationships, you're likely to have mental health challenges.

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There's so many stats that show us.

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I mean, recently I was reading a report the longest studied actually in the world on human relationships, and it's by it's by Harvard Business School actually and they were talking about how the secret to a long and healthy life lies in forging and maintaining glued, closed relationships with other people.

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So there's nothing really that we do in life that doesn't involve other people.

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But I think it starts with the relationship you have with yourself first.

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So it's about loving yourself, accepting who you are as a person, because you can't give what you don't have.

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Think about all the failures and all the successes in life that come about.

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It's usually as a result of one relationship going wrong or another relationship going right.

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So relationships are so, so critical, whether they're with a husband, a wife, whether they're with parents and their children or siblings.

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Relationships, I mean there's a phrase I don't know you might have heard it that talks about how this is in the Christian context, but I think it applies as well when it talks about how relationships in the kingdom move at the speed of that.

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The kingdom of God moves at the speed of relationships.

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If you bring that to everyday language as well, our lives move at the speed of the quality of our relationships lack of relationships or abundance of relationships.

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And you can take that into any context.

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Really, as Kemi was speaking, speaking mainly about maybe the domestic or the family relational context or the church relational context.

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You can broaden it and think about any relational context.

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In any relational context or in any context, we're really trying to create value in every context, whatever that value might mean.

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Maybe the language value might be something that is more apt for the business context, but really even in the family, if you have a healthy family relationship, the family is thriving, everyone is achieving or aspiring or moving towards what God has called them to be, then there is value being created.

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If you're fulfilling purpose in life, value is being created.

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So, when you think about it, nobody creates value on their own.

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So, when you think about it, nobody creates value on their own.

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You need people to create value.

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You need staff, or you need colleagues, or you need someone in your network, or you need someone to bring a perspective or you need someone to encourage you.

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So there's always some sort of connection or the other going on between people and in the context of the connections going on within people, some sort of value is being created.

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I mean, if you stop to even think about the Trinity.

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Value is being created because the Trinity is well connected with each other.

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The person, the tripartite person of the Trinity is well connected with each other.

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That's where that mega value is being created.

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So for us here, as human beings as well, we can't do anything special on our own.

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So the challenge really is how do we make sure that the relationships that we have thrive, how do we make sure we can't walk away from relationships and be whole and be complete?

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So how do we make sure that, or be healthy, like Kemi just highlighted?

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So how do we make sure that relationships, the relationships that we have and the ones that we seek, that they thrive and that we get more savvy at how we manage them, how we deploy them, how we work them, for the want of another word.

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So that's really the critical challenge that all of us on earth have to do.

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I mean, we look at nations and the way I know life in itself, everything they are.

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How do I want to call it?

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Not call it.

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Life can be fractious at different points in history, and this is probably one of those points in history where you just need to stop, take a quiet moment and you can think of altercations happening between nations in different parts of the world right now.

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When you you think about it, at the bottom of the heart of the matter is the quality of the relationships that these nations have with each other.

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Some of it is influenced by dynamics and the way those relationships have been managed from generations.

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Some of it is just influenced by the dynamics of the way the current management of those relationships.

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But at the heart of it it's a matter of relationships.

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The better we get at relationships, the more value is created, the more positive outcomes we have and the more we are getting closer to what God has ordained for us here on earth.

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So I don't think we can sell.

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That's a strong business case for relationships.

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No, it's amazing because when you talk about value as well, so that tells me as well that when you're in a relationship, there's also it's about both people, or all parties, getting something out of it.

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Because if you're not getting something out of relationship and that's why we hear relationships break down is because, for whatever reason and there can be many one, one person feels shortchanged, or one person feels like they're not getting value for what they're putting in, or the other person feels like you're getting more than you're putting in.

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And that's a relationship is about value.

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So it's about it's not in a vacuum.

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You just don't be in a relationship for just the sake of it.

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You're in a relationship because you believe the whole is more than the parts.

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So all of you, to get all of you together, create something that is greater than all of you individually, and I think that's that's really, really beneficial.

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So the question then becomes what does a healthy, high functioning relationship look like?

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Because for a lot of us we don't really know what it's like.

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We model our good on what we've seen others do.

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So for those of us who are married, for example, we've seen our parents' marriage in some cases, and we think that's what a good marriage looks like.

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Or we've seen our parents' marriages and said, no, the absolute opposite is what a good marriage looks like.

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Or we've seen colleagues in the marriages and said, no, the absolute opposite is what a good marriage looks like.

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Or we've seen colleagues in the workplace and said that's the relationship I want to model, and it doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing.

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So the question then is what does a high functioning, healthy relationship look like, or what should it look like, and what should they feel like?

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like, yeah, so as you were speaking about that, obviously the principles don't really the principles work for everyone, whether you're a christian or not, or whether you're a muslim.

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So I was just thinking about whatever, or whatever, whatever faith you might have.

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But I was just going to draw from the example that Jesus has muddled for us on what a good relationship would look like, and I think, at the foundation of it.

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Firstly, it's about you having a good awareness of who you are, because it's difficult to have good relationships if you don't know who you are.

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So it starts with you being aware of you, know what drives you, what motivates you.

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There is that.

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There's also the second bit around knowing that you're valuable, Because sometimes the challenges we're experiencing in relationships is because we're not valuing ourselves or valuing other people.

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Every human being is made in the image of God, bottom line, which means that we treat each other with respect.

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What does respect mean?

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Respect means having healthy boundaries around how we communicate with others, how they also communicate with us, Because you know there is that angle.

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The words we speak are powerful.

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The actions we take they're powerful in really making sure that you know the relationships that we're building are healthy.

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So if I'm speaking to people in a certain way, or if I'm not valuing myself and even speaking to myself in a certain way, that's not in line with, maybe, this value that I'm talking about in terms of us having value in God's eyes.

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Then, of course, there are issues I cannot give what I don't have.

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You know I'm going to the me that I present, how I show up, says a lot about what I believe about myself and how I treat other people as well.

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So when we come to talk about successful relationships, it's also a dialogue, having conversations with people.

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It's about selflessness, because you asked a question how do we know what a good relationship looks like?

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So we take our cue from Jesus because we're faith-based, but you can learn even from that Sacrificial, not thinking about our own interest alone, but thinking about other people's interest as well.

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And then not taking a short-term view, because if it's all about me, me, me, me, then really think about it.

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How is that going to benefit the greater good?

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So I think there's a lot about thinking about our motives.

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You know, what do I want out of this relationship?

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And being honest with ourselves as well.

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Is this about me or is it about us?

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So just dropping a few things around building healthy relationships.

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But I think, if I sum it up, it really just starts off with how you see yourself and how you treat other people as well.

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Now, if you've grown up in a dysfunctional home, it would definitely affect.

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Regardless of what home you've grown up in.

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It's going to affect your view of what a good relationship looks like, and this is why it's always good to have, like you know, something that you go back to.

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What does a good relationship look like?

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And this is why it's always good to have something that you go back to.

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What does a good relationship look like?

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Not based on what I have grown up with, and it doesn't mean that you haven't grown up with good relationships.

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And this is where, for us, going back to our faith is like at the essence, because we can't define what good is.

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We all have our perceptions, but if we look at the basic, going back to the beginning, what do we know?

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It's about looking at Jesus as our model in terms of how he treated other people, the things he did or the things he did not do.

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Yeah, let me stop there.

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I think, and just probably from what Kemi has said it's also about looking at the relationship that well, if you're Christian, looking at the relationship that you have with God now and how he deals with you.

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So in a relationship where we judge the other person or where we relate with them based on judgments and judgments are usually informed by our own assumptions and which are based on our own perspective to an issue you can see how narrowly angled that becomes and how perhaps unfair it would be to the other person.

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But a relationship like that is not likely to thrive because it's not based on the flow in that relationship is being blocked by judgments.

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Also, if you think about how God relates with us, he relates with us believing better of us, even more than we conduct ourselves.

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So a relationship that is healthy is one where both parties believe better of each other than just the outcomes that they see physically happening in their interactions with each other.

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So if everything that the other person does is something that I need to tick on the box and say, okay, you've done this, now I'm going to keep relating with you, just purely based on this, then it's going to again cause a bit of a hindrance to the relationship.

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So, again, if we look at our relationship with God, good relationship is one where I've heard someone say I think it was a quote that a good.

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They were referring to marriage then and they said a good marriage is a place where you have two eternal forgivers with each other.

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No one is perfect.

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So when you go into relationships and if you think about your best friends, sometimes we complicate matters by trying to make it very, very intellectual.

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Let's just be very practical about this.

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You have really good relationships with some people.

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Why do you have those relationships with them?

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Why do you flow so well with your friends from school?

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For some friends from school and not from others, it's because they don't judge you.

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It's because they accept you the way that you are.

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It's because they believe the best of you.

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It's because they are ready to go out of their way for you.

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It's because that's why you enjoy their company.

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It's because they pay attention to you, not to themselves.

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You know and I think Kemi mentioned it, probably you mentioned it as well as you're asking the question A relationship is a two-way thing.

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So it's about one person seeking the best of the other.

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And yes, you mentioned it, femi, when we talked about what a relationship was, and you talked about, and we're talking about, the dynamics even at national level, and you talked about the fact that there are interests.

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People have individual interests.

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They also have individual needs.

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So once we begin to stop focusing on people just based on how they are behaving and the outcomes that we're seeing and we start to look at what does this person need?

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It takes an open heart, it takes a compassionate heart, it takes an accommodating heart to relate to people that way.

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But once you begin to focus more on what they need what is the need here?

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Even if somebody acts in a certain way, what is the need?

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What's driving the need?

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What's behind the action Then you begin to get deeper in your relationship with that person.

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It influences the way you engage with them and it influences the outcomes that you get in your interaction with them.

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So try and imagine a situation where two individuals are interacting with each other, not just based on the actions, but say what does this person need?

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I see the action, but what do they need?

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It's a much more compassionate and engaging way to engage Another.

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What do they need?

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It's a much more compassionate and engaging way to engage Another very interesting thing which God does with us so well, is any relationship that is going to thrive.

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You must constantly Kemi said it earlier on that it's a journey.

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On that journey you're trying to get better, isn't it?

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In your interactions with each other.

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On that journey, you must constantly be trying to move from what is implicit to what is explicit.

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It's so important.

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What do I mean?

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I said earlier on that we all well.

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I said earlier on that there's a lot of situations.

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We find situations where people judge each other and stuff like that.

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And I talked about assumptions.

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We all have assumptions.

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The truth is, we all have assumptions Because we need some sort of data to start our interactions with other people.

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So we assume certain things or we assess the situation and we have certain judgments and it's important that we have something to work with.

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But then, as we keep interacting with people, we then begin to either couple one or two things to it.

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If we choose to couple curiosity to our assumptions, that statement and I'm sure you've heard that, the listeners have probably heard the statement where it says assumption makes an ass of you and me, sounds really nice, sounds really smart.

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I believed that for a long time, but more recently, as I've thought about it and I've read around this area, it's not so much the assumption.

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That makes an ass of you and me is when we make an assumption and then we stay there and we say this is everything I need to know and we stay in that closed zone in our mind and we now try and engage with people based on our assumption.

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But if we have an assumption, we say, okay, this is what I know so far, and then we then open up our minds to being curious.

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We are constantly asking questions.

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We will get more data.

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Some of it will validate the assumption and we will stay where we are.

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Some of it will negate the assumption.

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I will be like, oh no, I got it wrong there.

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It's because we are humble enough to say my relationship with this person.

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I am constantly trying to move from what is implicit, what is implied, what I assume, to what is explicit, what is implied what I assume, to what is explicit, what is mutually agreed between us, what they also see as the truth or the reality, just like I'm looking at the reality from my own perspective.

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And that is very important because can we mention something?

00:19:17.586 --> 00:19:30.501
Earlier on, she talked about how we have filters, different things and how we she talked about how whole we may be or may not be and how, whoever we are, we bring into the relationship and it has an impact on the relationship.

00:19:30.501 --> 00:19:39.548
A lot of that dynamic has to do with filters that we have, biases, things that we have to control over.

00:19:39.548 --> 00:19:43.164
But we've gone through life and we've experienced certain things and it's shaped off in certain ways.

00:19:43.164 --> 00:19:44.561
That's not a problem.

00:19:45.463 --> 00:19:49.704
The biggest challenge is the humility of how to say I am not perfect.

00:19:49.704 --> 00:20:02.287
I am going into a relationship where I want to invest to get something that is closer to we don't get the perfection until we're with Christ or to get from it is closer to perfection, and the only way I can do that is by learning.

00:20:02.287 --> 00:20:04.481
So I am open to learning.

00:20:04.481 --> 00:20:13.569
So what I know might be implied, but I am now moving into a place where it is mutually understood and that is a place of explicit situations.

00:20:13.569 --> 00:20:17.000
So we're constantly trying to move from implicit to explicit.

00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.787
If you get that right, it can transform the way you result.

00:20:20.787 --> 00:20:24.366
Let me give you a simple example of how that will work in practice.

00:20:24.366 --> 00:20:29.030
It means you're constantly asking more questions than you are trying to convince someone.

00:20:29.030 --> 00:20:36.507
It means you're constantly trying to understand the person, that you are trying to get your own point across, because you want clarity.

00:20:36.507 --> 00:20:39.188
You want their own world, you want to get their own.

00:20:41.365 --> 00:20:47.708
The better you understand someone, and I was reading that in my devotional today about when you invite someone.

00:20:47.708 --> 00:21:13.846
It's about trying to daily learn more about the person and be curious about the person, and you really want to have a PhD in whoever your partner is, because when you know them well, then the assumptions go away and assumptions get rid of judgments, and then you see them truly, them for you, you see them truly, and when you see them truly, the person feels seen and then it becomes an authentic, real relationship and that's that, that's that's the essence of it.

00:21:13.846 --> 00:21:38.167
So the question that I had is I will make a nice segues, because I think you've kind of touched on some of the things stopping us from having effective relationships, because I was going to talk about that and I think you've ended up talking about the judgment, the assumptions that we have, although there's one thing I do want to speak to you about I know you're experts in that which is important relationships and this kind of ties in with it as well, which is the c word communication.

00:21:38.167 --> 00:22:02.490
But all of this kind of ties in, well, I'd like to make a segue into marriage, then, because that's one of the things I do want us to share here is what, then, are the found, now that we've spoken about relationships, we've spoken about the importance and we now established that marriage is really a living, breathing relationship that you're both committed to.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.089
There are lots of other relationships where you go into it and you kind of go.

00:22:06.089 --> 00:22:08.039
It's a transient relationship.

00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:18.251
At some point we can both off-board and come off and go our separate ways and, by and large, that is still the essence of marriage today.

00:22:18.251 --> 00:22:29.747
When most people go into it, they go into it with the essence that we are going to get into a lifelong relationship to it, with the essence that we are going to get into a lifelong relationship.

00:22:29.747 --> 00:22:34.259
So what, then, are the foundations of a healthy, fruitful, loving and whatever adjective you want to use, of?

00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:39.188
Let's just keep it simple what are the foundations of a good marriage?

00:22:39.188 --> 00:22:53.724
And I know we can go on for a long time, but within the short time we have, if we keep it nice and putty for our listeners so that they can because I know we're going to need to bring it back and go deeper into this- sure.

00:22:53.785 --> 00:23:10.867
So I think, as you spoke, that when, as we've all kind of fed into this I wanted to mention something that's so, that's always going on, that sometimes we're not articulating as human beings what stops us having effective, fruitful relationships.

00:23:10.867 --> 00:23:12.471
A lot of times it's fear.

00:23:12.471 --> 00:23:18.201
We're afraid of what's going on, but we're not showing up and saying you know, when we communicate.

00:23:18.201 --> 00:23:25.690
If I came and said, oh, bode, this is what my need is, maybe when you do this, bode, this is what my need is, maybe when you do this, I'm afraid this might happen.

00:23:25.690 --> 00:23:30.776
It's different from coming in and saying to Bode, you always do this.

00:23:30.776 --> 00:23:38.567
I bring that up because when you're afraid, you're afraid to be vulnerable.

00:23:38.567 --> 00:23:45.028
When you're fearful, you're acting based on all of these things that Bode said, things that aren't explicit.

00:23:45.700 --> 00:23:55.790
So when you come to ask about what makes a healthy married, I think the first thing really is honesty, vulnerability and truthfulness.

00:23:55.790 --> 00:24:08.784
I mean, we all know that, even in the business world, there's a lot of conversation around being authentic, around being honest, around being open, around being authentic, around being honest, around being open.

00:24:08.784 --> 00:24:15.865
So I think the first thing is that nakedness and vulnerability, creating an environment and an atmosphere in your marriage where we can be ourselves.

00:24:15.865 --> 00:24:19.181
And when I say we can be ourselves, I'm not talking a bit about this selfish.

00:24:19.181 --> 00:24:20.522
You know, this is who I am.

00:24:20.623 --> 00:24:21.203
No, no, no.

00:24:21.203 --> 00:24:31.792
It's about how do we build a home, a safe haven, where we can both come, be vulnerable, sharing our witnesses, sharing our thoughts.

00:24:31.792 --> 00:24:35.845
You know, when we talk about healthy marriages, we always use this analogy.

00:24:35.845 --> 00:24:40.363
I don't know for those who swim, they probably would identify with it.

00:24:40.363 --> 00:24:51.093
When you get married, it's a bit like you know, when you go swimming, if you're a swimmer initially, you are in at the early, bit like when you go swimming, if you're a swimmer Initially, you are in at the early, you're going, you don't want to go into the deep end.

00:24:51.093 --> 00:24:55.267
So you're talking about things that are just, you know, not surface.

00:24:56.731 --> 00:24:57.099
You're just.

00:24:57.099 --> 00:25:00.067
You didn't mention chemistry.

00:25:00.067 --> 00:25:05.007
You didn't mention and let's be real here a lot of people want to go into a relationship.

00:25:05.007 --> 00:25:07.690
You want to go to a leadership with someone that you find attractive.

00:25:07.690 --> 00:25:09.279
You want to go to someone that you think has chemistry.

00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:13.463
So where do those things sit in this, in this list?

00:25:13.463 --> 00:25:14.786
Are they unimportant?

00:25:14.846 --> 00:25:17.353
now, sure, not at all.

00:25:17.353 --> 00:25:19.376
God doesn't even want us.

00:25:19.376 --> 00:25:25.094
Why would I want you to be with someone you're not excited or attracted to?

00:25:25.094 --> 00:25:29.787
The only thing is you can't base your whole marriage just on that.

00:25:29.787 --> 00:25:33.295
In a marriage, you have different types of love.

00:25:33.295 --> 00:25:39.134
So let me start, if I use that and then, because of course it's important, I'm attracted to my husband.

00:25:39.134 --> 00:25:42.943
I'm sure you're attracted to your wife as well, and we need that attraction.

00:25:43.164 --> 00:25:43.826
In a marriage.

00:25:43.826 --> 00:25:46.412
You need four different types of love.

00:25:46.412 --> 00:25:49.638
You've got the eros love, which is the attraction.

00:25:49.638 --> 00:25:55.498
Of course we must, because sex is a part of our marriage and it's a gift that we need to enjoy.

00:25:55.498 --> 00:25:57.583
So you need the eros kind of love.

00:25:57.583 --> 00:26:03.117
You also need the filial, the friendship, because the friendship sustains you.

00:26:03.117 --> 00:26:09.439
You know that we're marriage counselors and sometimes in counseling you just realize that this couples aren't friends.

00:26:09.439 --> 00:26:12.559
They haven't invested in their friendship.

00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:14.698
How do you invest in your friendship?

00:26:14.698 --> 00:26:19.636
You're not going on dates, just laughing together, doing the things that you do with your friends.

00:26:19.636 --> 00:26:23.277
It just becomes about okay, this is what we're doing as husband and wife.

00:26:23.277 --> 00:26:27.080
So your friendship is very, very important.

00:26:27.080 --> 00:26:34.496
Of course, you also need the filial kind of love in your marriage as well, and you need their agape.

00:26:34.496 --> 00:26:37.549
Their agape is for the Christians, but you don't have to be Selfless.

00:26:37.549 --> 00:26:38.271
Love is just Admitted.

00:26:38.271 --> 00:26:38.972
You know there.

00:26:38.972 --> 00:26:39.875
But you don't have to be Selfless.

00:26:39.875 --> 00:26:41.377
Love, it's just Admitted.

00:26:41.377 --> 00:26:43.201
You know there are days you don't like your spouse.

00:26:43.221 --> 00:26:43.722
Selfless love.

00:26:46.010 --> 00:26:47.781
But do you work out of your marriage because you don't like your?

00:26:47.803 --> 00:26:48.869
spouse On that day On that day.

00:26:48.869 --> 00:26:50.494
So it's about.

00:26:50.494 --> 00:26:51.277
So what?

00:26:51.277 --> 00:26:52.099
Where we're going is.

00:26:52.099 --> 00:26:56.232
Attraction is important, but you can't base your marriage just on attraction.

00:26:56.232 --> 00:26:58.236
There's only so much sex you can have.

00:26:58.236 --> 00:26:58.977
There's only so much.

00:26:58.977 --> 00:27:00.358
It's got to be more.

00:27:00.358 --> 00:27:03.061
We're all looking to be seen, to be known.

00:27:03.061 --> 00:27:06.833
You know, to be accepted the world out there is really hard.

00:27:06.833 --> 00:27:15.421
So how do we create an environment where we can be our true selves, where we don't have to have, you know, clothes on, hiding from each other?

00:27:15.421 --> 00:27:23.661
It takes each party in the marriage to say you can trust me with your heart, so you're not.

00:27:23.661 --> 00:27:29.474
That's the environment, because the challenge is that poison, the judgment is the poison, but that's not easy for men.

00:27:29.970 --> 00:27:39.430
But you know, and if we're going to say again, if we get real, it's because men find it hard to be vulnerable, because and if you've grown, then it's easier.

00:27:39.430 --> 00:27:41.076
But men can find it hard.

00:27:41.076 --> 00:27:56.319
And with men sometimes we open up a bit and if that vulnerability is weaponized against us, we can shut down for a long time, if not forever.

00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:11.195
So I think there's also an understanding on both sides of our different natures and when men are vulnerable, it's women appreciating that this is a really sensitive time and he doesn't do it lightly.

00:28:11.195 --> 00:28:23.440
But it also meant understanding that you need to be vulnerable for a woman to feel like this relationship is going to the next level, that it's going deeper, because we both work on different levels.

00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:27.930
And is that something you find that couples know instinctively?

00:28:27.930 --> 00:28:41.397
Or they have to learn or they need to learn when it comes to that sort of part of like foundations and being authentic and being a makehead, yeah, and being a mickhead.

00:28:41.577 --> 00:28:56.978
What we've found is actually that to a large extent, the whole gendered differentials around capacity to be vulnerable or proclivity to be vulnerable is true, but it is not a standard.

00:28:56.978 --> 00:29:11.502
You might go into a relationship where you find the guy is very open to being vulnerable just because of the journey that he's been on getting to the point where they got married, and the lady, because of the journey she's been on, really struggles to be vulnerable.

00:29:11.502 --> 00:29:17.529
So vulnerability is key to thriving in a relationship.

00:29:17.630 --> 00:29:18.915
What does vulnerability mean?

00:29:18.915 --> 00:29:20.797
I mean, can you take what's the word here?

00:29:20.797 --> 00:29:24.479
Can you take it down another level?

00:29:24.479 --> 00:29:28.538
Because that vulnerability I sense I know what it is and that's because I sort of play in this space.

00:29:28.538 --> 00:29:36.009
But in practical terms, what does an instance in a relationship, what does a vulnerability in a relationship, look like?

00:29:36.009 --> 00:29:39.115
If you give us an instance, a snapshot of what it looks like?

00:29:41.961 --> 00:29:57.443
Okay, and one important thing is that, as we, the way we function as human beings, there's a lot of narratives that's going on in our minds that influences the way we behave, the way we act, the way we judge the things that we see.

00:29:57.443 --> 00:30:07.076
The so, in other words, what you are seeing and experiencing in my relationship with you, is, to a large extent, the function of what is not seen.

00:30:07.076 --> 00:30:14.480
The moment you can open the other person to the world that they don't see the layer beneath.

00:30:15.531 --> 00:30:16.173
What is making?

00:30:16.173 --> 00:30:19.134
You see, I make those decisions, I say the things you say.

00:30:20.198 --> 00:30:20.951
Exactly so.

00:30:20.951 --> 00:30:22.877
A lot of your thoughts, your inner thoughts.

00:30:22.877 --> 00:30:25.018
You're sharing your inner thoughts with each other.

00:30:25.018 --> 00:30:27.076
You are being very vulnerable with each other.

00:30:27.076 --> 00:30:28.515
You don't get there in one day.

00:30:29.329 --> 00:30:35.980
In fact, I and Kemi, in the work that we do with couples, one of the most important things we say a lot of things when it comes to.

00:30:35.980 --> 00:30:40.355
I know your question initially was how do you get a really stable, successful marriage going?

00:30:40.355 --> 00:30:48.044
So we say a number of things, or we share a number of things with couples, and I'm just going to mention it because they are really helpful here.

00:30:48.044 --> 00:30:54.711
The first is we're coming from two different points.

00:30:54.711 --> 00:30:59.361
If we want to have a healthy relationship, we have to create an atmosphere for it, so we're going to need to shift our mindset.

00:30:59.361 --> 00:31:10.196
So one of the points that are clearly coming from is the fact that, as individuals, we had previous allegiances allegiances to my family, my own nuclear family, before I met her, and so with her as well.

00:31:10.196 --> 00:31:30.500
I had allegiances to my friends, and so with her as well, and, depending on the degree of the relationships that I have with individuals in my family and my friendships, they owned a huge space in my heart and a huge space in my time, a huge space in terms of my affections, and I'm not saying that I now have to abandon those relationships.

00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:37.661
In fact, me getting into a relationship, into marriage, should bless or be a benefit to those relationships.

00:31:37.661 --> 00:31:41.369
People should look at me five years from or five years after I got married.

00:31:41.369 --> 00:31:46.598
Wow, I never knew I could experience this, such this much of value from Bode.

00:31:46.598 --> 00:31:50.276
But now that Bode is with Kemi, I experience so much more.

00:31:50.276 --> 00:31:52.198
This is an even better version of Bode.

00:31:52.198 --> 00:31:58.396
Or I experience Bode and Kemi, you know, in such a special way, more than I did Bode alone.

00:31:58.396 --> 00:31:59.659
So that's what should happen.

00:31:59.679 --> 00:32:00.580
Bode, it's a journey.

00:32:00.580 --> 00:32:01.363
So what?

00:32:01.363 --> 00:32:04.278
That journey starts because we choose us.

00:32:04.278 --> 00:32:06.135
We change our mindset.

00:32:06.135 --> 00:32:10.618
We say it's not about me, bode, it's not about her, kemi, but it's about us.

00:32:10.618 --> 00:32:12.857
So we embrace an us paradigm.

00:32:12.857 --> 00:32:17.471
So in the church palace we would say we live to cleave we.

00:32:17.471 --> 00:32:18.471
We would say we live to cleave.

00:32:18.471 --> 00:32:22.477
We become one entity and that's what God is expecting from us as well.

00:32:22.497 --> 00:32:28.746
So it's a shifting of emotional commitments, a shifting of mindsets, a changing of paradigms.

00:32:28.746 --> 00:32:45.549
And that takes time because it also means a changing of habits and stuff like that, but it's easier when we surface our thoughts oh, I actually what I was thinking to do when I did X was actually Y, and we don't sweat the small stuff.

00:32:45.549 --> 00:32:53.343
I knew you were trying to do Y and I was just waiting for you to complete that process before I flagged it up like, hey, x is what we agreed.

00:32:53.343 --> 00:32:58.921
So you see, it's a loving environment where we are both committed to a changing process.

00:32:58.921 --> 00:33:03.679
That's one environment where we are both committed to a changing process.

00:33:03.679 --> 00:33:05.806
That's one, in that loving environment that is committed to a changing process.

00:33:05.806 --> 00:33:06.849
We are literally forming a new identity.

00:33:07.650 --> 00:33:12.546
Kemi and I like to talk about how our home is a safe haven for us.

00:33:12.546 --> 00:33:27.490
She was alluding to that earlier on when she started to talk about how difficult it is out there and that when you have a family where there is no judgment, a home where there is no judgment, a home where you feel you can be yourself, and again, being yourself is not so much.

00:33:27.490 --> 00:33:29.857
This is who I am and this is where I want to stay.

00:33:29.877 --> 00:33:31.020
Marriage is about change.

00:33:31.060 --> 00:33:31.622
We grow.

00:33:31.622 --> 00:33:33.215
God expects us to grow.

00:33:33.215 --> 00:33:34.301
Marriage is about change.

00:33:34.301 --> 00:33:37.314
Some people say marriage is a university of growth and change.

00:33:37.314 --> 00:33:38.417
It is so.

00:33:38.417 --> 00:33:44.480
We go in there knowing that we will change, but it is not for the other person to want to change us.

00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:46.008
They don't have the capacity to change us.

00:33:46.008 --> 00:33:47.593
They don't have the ability to change us.

00:33:47.593 --> 00:34:00.799
We need to make a decision, and we make that decision when we encounter things that makes us see ourselves in God's light and say, ah, now I see this blind spot, this area of a blind spot, or I see myself better.

00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:03.599
I would want to be this, I would want to be that.

00:34:04.009 --> 00:34:07.661
There is a statement that John Maxwell highlights a lot.

00:34:07.661 --> 00:34:09.577
No, he has a great way with words.

00:34:09.577 --> 00:34:13.436
I don't know for any of the listeners who know about John Maxwell, but he does have a great way with words.

00:34:13.436 --> 00:34:21.260
He talks about leadership and a lot of other things, but there's a statement that he makes that is so apt when you're talking about relationships, whether in marriage or outside of marriage.

00:34:21.260 --> 00:34:25.605
He says people don't care what you know until they know that you care.

00:34:25.605 --> 00:34:31.914
People don't care what you know until they know that you care.

00:34:31.914 --> 00:34:45.059
What that means is that, before you can get the head, the thinking capacity of the person, their mental ascent to engage with you, or, before you can get their hands, their commitment to do something, first you find fantastic.

00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:51.440
So when you have that kind of mindset, you are gradually creating one identity.

00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:57.438
It's safe even for each other when, like Kemi mentioned a moment ago, you become the custodian of the other person's heart.

00:34:57.438 --> 00:35:02.121
You care enough to create an environment where they want to be vulnerable.

00:35:02.121 --> 00:35:08.956
If that environment is created, whether you're a male, whether you're a female, you know it's a safe place.

00:35:08.956 --> 00:35:14.835
Every guy I know the toughest of guys they have safe places where they go.

00:35:14.835 --> 00:35:17.576
It might be where they hang out with other guys.

00:35:17.576 --> 00:35:21.137
Then they can be open, they feel secure, they feel safe.

00:35:21.137 --> 00:35:23.637
So it's just about creating that safe space.

00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:29.621
And once you do that, another thing that is very important is fidelity.

00:35:29.621 --> 00:35:39.289
I need to know that I have an exclusive relationship with you and that, again, that's trust, which is a basic, foundational thing in a relationship.

00:35:39.289 --> 00:35:42.791
So exclusivity, fidelity, sensitivity.

00:35:42.791 --> 00:35:49.753
To me as a person, it is not so much what is said about what husbands look like or what wives look like.

00:35:49.753 --> 00:35:53.842
It is not what traditions say a man should be or what a woman should be.

00:35:53.842 --> 00:35:56.856
It is the person that I am with that matters.

00:35:56.856 --> 00:36:03.454
Like you said earlier on and I so much echo it, I need to get a PhD in the person that I'm with.

00:36:03.454 --> 00:36:13.121
Once I focus on that and the environment is one that is transparent, I can be vulnerable, I have no fear of rejection, the relationship will thrive.

00:36:13.121 --> 00:36:20.563
So we always highlight that a lot when we talk to couples, but it starts with that mindset of us.

00:36:20.949 --> 00:36:26.358
And that us mindset is saying we're a team, and I think that that's so, so important.

00:36:26.358 --> 00:36:30.121
The thought that I had when Buddy was speaking was around.

00:36:30.121 --> 00:36:34.117
We all know the story of the Titanic and you know what happened.

00:36:34.117 --> 00:36:39.315
The captain underestimated the size of the iceberg, and it's like that.

00:36:39.335 --> 00:36:40.623
Sometimes in marriage You're focusing on what you can see.

00:36:40.623 --> 00:36:47.583
Sometimes in marriage you're focusing on what you can see, but what you're not focusing on that has the most impact is what is not seen.

00:36:47.583 --> 00:36:57.594
So things along the background, the motifs, the experiences that have made the person, the fears, the person that they are today.

00:36:57.594 --> 00:37:15.201
So if we're really talking about building a healthy marriage, then the foundations must be not just vulnerability, respect, a curiosity, wanting to know more, not making assumptions, humility, humility, humility, lots of humility.

00:37:15.201 --> 00:37:18.213
Establishing healthy boundaries, for instance.

00:37:18.213 --> 00:37:26.757
I remember when we were courting, part of the conversations we had around boundaries was how we resolve conflict, because we respect each other.

00:37:26.757 --> 00:37:30.476
We can have a disagreement, but we're not going to be yelling at each other.

00:37:30.476 --> 00:37:31.721
That's not healthy.

00:37:31.721 --> 00:37:34.275
That's me valuing who I am, but it values who he is.

00:37:34.275 --> 00:37:42.114
So just some boundaries, because sometimes, where there are no boundaries in a marriage, everything goes and that's the problem.

00:37:42.114 --> 00:37:44.478
So I hope we shared some stuff around.

00:37:45.391 --> 00:37:46.155
That's useful.

00:37:47.592 --> 00:37:54.641
One thing I will say before we move on is a lot of what we've said has to be discussed before.

00:37:54.641 --> 00:37:58.317
Before what?

00:37:59.490 --> 00:38:29.083
Before we get into marriage, but that's but the problem is that we don't, a lot of people don't, and and we encounter and then you're trying to retrofit and you may be lucky, I meet someone that personality wise, or you're both of faith and you're both in the same journey and you're both accepting that you're willing to learn, but, as I might be unlucky that sometimes it's just such an uphill battle that if you're not mindset we are doing it together to overcome it, then it just makes so what you said is right.

00:38:29.083 --> 00:38:32.335
It makes it easier when you did before because it was your hitched.

00:38:32.335 --> 00:38:36.731
If you don't have the right mindset, it's really hard to overcome that.

00:38:36.731 --> 00:38:40.760
But that's the good one, because a lot of people don't talk about it's that what you find in a lot of relationships?

00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:42.893
A lot of people haven't discussed that before they.

00:38:44.271 --> 00:38:49.021
I'll say in some, but in a chunk, but even if they haven't discussed it.

00:38:49.021 --> 00:38:56.273
You know I said something that one of the key qualities to a successful marriage is humility, curiosity, wanting to learn.

00:38:56.273 --> 00:39:04.356
This is a good point to say, okay, look at where we've been, and where we are now Is where we are going to take us to the future.

00:39:04.356 --> 00:39:05.179
We see or not.

00:39:05.179 --> 00:39:07.706
If it isn't, what can we do?

00:39:07.706 --> 00:39:13.378
Because insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

00:39:13.378 --> 00:39:19.702
And I know even from we all knew that relationships really, really matter.

00:39:19.702 --> 00:39:26.443
I have people that I've led or worked with that as a result of something that was happening in their home setting.

00:39:26.443 --> 00:39:28.831
Work was really tough for them.

00:39:28.831 --> 00:39:43.179
So sometimes, as well as taking a step back and just thinking about what future do you want to see in your marriage, because the route that you're going down isn't going to help and we haven't even thought about the children or brought them in.

00:39:43.842 --> 00:39:47.755
A lot of what we go through sometimes is because of what we saw with our parents.

00:39:47.755 --> 00:39:51.907
So, breaking those patterns, we can learn skills.

00:39:51.907 --> 00:39:55.960
We do relationship skills for parents, for husbands, for wives.

00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:58.005
We can learn it even at work.

00:39:58.005 --> 00:39:59.913
We're learning relational skills myself and buddy.

00:39:59.913 --> 00:40:02.061
Sometimes we're traveling the world also because we're working with senior wives.

00:40:02.061 --> 00:40:02.664
We can learn it even at work.

00:40:02.664 --> 00:40:03.789
We're learning relational skills, myself and Buddy.

00:40:03.789 --> 00:40:07.918
Sometimes we're traveling the world also because we're working with senior teams on the relationship, not just the technical aspects of it.

00:40:07.918 --> 00:40:09.882
So it can be learned.

00:40:09.882 --> 00:40:17.891
But there must be a willingness and humility to say I want to know more, I want to be better and ready to grow.

00:40:17.891 --> 00:40:21.842
It's about having a growth mindset rather than talking.

00:40:22.030 --> 00:40:36.956
Well, this is the way the culture is, this is the way men are, we men are, and that was going to bring us to my next question, which is as we start to come to the back end of this conversation, which is, I think a lot of us probably know one or two people contemporarily now that are struggling in marriage.

00:40:36.956 --> 00:40:48.077
And then the question is you look back and you look back at our parents and, rightly or wrongly, a lot of people have a lot of theories about why they stayed together.

00:40:48.077 --> 00:40:49.875
Some are true or false.

00:40:49.875 --> 00:41:05.295
I think sometimes we underestimate people's commitment to a life together, so people now trivialize it by saying things like oh, back then women couldn't work, which is true, or sometimes as well, the women were.

00:41:05.295 --> 00:41:08.181
Actually both couples were committed to it.

00:41:09.190 --> 00:41:16.422
But the thing I want to ask now is, then is what's causing the uptick in?

00:41:16.422 --> 00:41:22.735
Is it as simple as just economics and social changes?

00:41:22.735 --> 00:41:42.675
That is leading to more marriages struggling now and some of the battles couples have faced the battles couples have always faced, but it feels like there's not as much grit and resilience sometimes or stickability, and for all of us, sometimes we all struggle.

00:41:42.675 --> 00:41:43.436
Why is that?

00:41:43.436 --> 00:41:45.335
What's causing this General?

00:41:46.561 --> 00:41:48.023
Yeah, I think.

00:41:48.023 --> 00:41:58.396
Firstly, like we all know, miles Monroe said that if you don't know the purpose of a thing, that thing, there will be a misuse.

00:41:58.396 --> 00:42:05.965
I think that foundationally and I say this, please, with all respect to all married couples sometimes people don't have the right view of marriage.

00:42:05.965 --> 00:42:10.688
Sometimes people don't have the right view of marriage.

00:42:10.688 --> 00:42:17.094
When we go to look at the right view of marriage again, of course I'm going to go to a faith-based approach.

00:42:17.094 --> 00:42:19.577
Why did God create marriage?

00:42:19.577 --> 00:42:24.851
Because if you really think about that, then you can walk backwards.

00:42:24.851 --> 00:42:33.653
Marriage was never meant to be about you, because if you're thinking about your needs, your needs you're not going to be able to be a good influence on your spouse.

00:42:33.653 --> 00:42:36.204
Marriage is much more than you.

00:42:36.204 --> 00:42:37.887
Marriage is about legacy.

00:42:37.887 --> 00:42:39.851
Marriage is about building.

00:42:39.851 --> 00:42:41.414
Marriage is about teamwork.

00:42:41.414 --> 00:42:42.862
We all know that acronym.

00:42:42.862 --> 00:42:45.911
Together, everyone achieves more.

00:42:46.460 --> 00:42:52.313
So I think the challenge arises when we bring marriage down to something that's dispensable.

00:42:52.313 --> 00:43:01.253
Let's think what the impact of failed marriages there are stats on this on the children, on even the people.

00:43:01.253 --> 00:43:04.630
So I think it starts with why did I get married?

00:43:04.630 --> 00:43:07.027
You've got to be honest with yourself.

00:43:07.027 --> 00:43:08.726
So there is that angle.

00:43:08.726 --> 00:43:09.509
Definitely.

00:43:09.509 --> 00:43:15.869
There's also the angle of the fact that a lot has happened with women over the years.

00:43:15.869 --> 00:43:23.168
In the past, the power balance was tilted towards men, so women had no choice but to stay at home.

00:43:23.168 --> 00:43:25.132
Otherwise, where would I go with the children?

00:43:25.132 --> 00:43:26.101
How are they going to be fed?

00:43:26.101 --> 00:43:26.543
How are we going to?

00:43:26.543 --> 00:43:27.146
So they stayed because one.

00:43:27.146 --> 00:43:29.112
They really wanted to keep their vows, but there were also no opportunities they we going to.

00:43:29.112 --> 00:43:29.815
So they stayed because one.

00:43:29.815 --> 00:43:33.766
They really wanted to keep their vows, but there were also no opportunities.

00:43:33.766 --> 00:43:35.532
They were going to suffer if they left.

00:43:35.532 --> 00:43:37.764
Now that shouldn't be a problem.

00:43:38.043 --> 00:43:46.652
If a husband's working in that context, if the husband has the right notion of what marriage is, it's realizing that you're both contributing to the marriage.

00:43:46.652 --> 00:43:57.688
Might be the one going to work, but if I'm at home looking after the children, you wouldn't have posterity, the things you're doing, you're able to travel and achieve all the success.

00:43:57.688 --> 00:43:58.188
We are doing it together.

00:43:58.188 --> 00:44:00.597
So it's also about understanding our roles.

00:44:00.597 --> 00:44:10.025
Sometimes women are trying to be men, I'm sorry and sometimes men are trying to be like women, sometimes in our generation.

00:44:10.025 --> 00:44:15.172
So where we're going is we have different roles, not one is more important than other.

00:44:15.172 --> 00:44:16.998
It's about teamwork.

00:44:17.038 --> 00:44:18.882
The Bible talks about male and female.

00:44:18.882 --> 00:44:20.146
He created them.

00:44:20.146 --> 00:44:31.750
Men are not better than women, women are not better than men, and if we go to the scriptures, where it says a woman is a helper, usually you're helping someone who needs help, who doesn't have what you have.

00:44:31.750 --> 00:44:34.505
So it's about us seeing each other as gifts.

00:44:34.505 --> 00:44:41.789
When we then bring it to this, it's also the fact that, when we look at our current culture, a lot of things are not celebrated.

00:44:41.789 --> 00:44:43.802
It's very divisive around marriage.

00:44:43.802 --> 00:44:46.728
It's not a culture that enables marriage.

00:44:46.728 --> 00:44:53.603
There's so many stories that we could share, but I have personal experience going to work in Nigeria over.

00:44:53.603 --> 00:44:55.148
I'm using Nigeria as an example.

00:44:55.148 --> 00:44:56.510
It's not only in Nigeria.

00:44:56.510 --> 00:45:01.130
There was always that pressure of you know, men do their own thing, women do their own thing.

00:45:01.130 --> 00:45:02.501
Why are you guys being together?

00:45:02.501 --> 00:45:03.925
All of those things.

00:45:03.945 --> 00:45:05.951
So marriage isn't a celebration.

00:45:05.951 --> 00:45:08.903
You go their own thing, but you guys are always together.

00:45:10.547 --> 00:45:15.186
So if you're constantly doing different things, come on, how are you going to connect?

00:45:15.186 --> 00:45:22.083
There's no time for connection If you've got careers that are really demanding, if everybody is competing.

00:45:22.083 --> 00:45:24.590
What we should be doing is what is our vision?

00:45:24.590 --> 00:45:29.331
How can we harness our resources as a couple?

00:45:29.331 --> 00:45:45.101
Is there a season where somebody might stay at home, somebody might go for a lower paid job, because it's better for us to do that, to enable us to build a home where you know we connect with our kids, where we're values driven rather than money driven?

00:45:45.101 --> 00:45:52.494
Because what is success if, at the end of the day, you lose your family or you lose your health?

00:45:52.494 --> 00:45:56.467
So we need to be honest and say really, what do we want to build?

00:45:56.467 --> 00:46:03.275
We start I mean, we all know from the seven habits of highly effective people begin with the end in mind.

00:46:03.275 --> 00:46:04.539
These are conversations.

00:46:04.699 --> 00:46:06.626
Sometimes people are feeling a bit insecure.

00:46:06.626 --> 00:46:11.586
If a husband isn't treating his wife well, then what's going to happen?

00:46:11.586 --> 00:46:15.889
She's going to be afraid and she's going to be thinking let me make alternate plans.

00:46:15.889 --> 00:46:16.992
I can't trust this guy.

00:46:16.992 --> 00:46:31.364
And it could be vice versa If the husband also doesn't understand that we're working together, that he's going to frustrate his wife because he doesn't want her successful and she doesn't want him successful because I can't guarantee that if he's successful, he's going to look after me.

00:46:31.364 --> 00:46:35.588
These are all the things that go on in people's minds, but they don't discuss it.

00:46:35.588 --> 00:46:43.074
So we're building marriages based on fear rather than marriages based on faith and hope and trust.

00:46:43.074 --> 00:46:55.304
So we end up with something that's less than what we could have Meanwhile, when the scriptures say one can put to flight a thousand to 10,000.

00:46:55.304 --> 00:46:57.208
So that's why this honesty and openness is so, so important.

00:46:57.708 --> 00:47:03.365
And where there've been challenges, we don't ignore them, because they don't go away.

00:47:03.365 --> 00:47:05.771
They just the cracks, just get bigger.

00:47:05.771 --> 00:47:06.981
It's like a block drain.

00:47:06.981 --> 00:47:11.932
You keep letting all of these things go through, whether it's rice that you let go through.

00:47:11.932 --> 00:47:15.403
One day you're going to have a block drain and to unplug it.

00:47:15.403 --> 00:47:21.289
It's a lot more work and sometimes it's impossible because there's so many things that have happened.

00:47:21.289 --> 00:47:26.152
So getting the help you need at the right time is important.

00:47:26.152 --> 00:47:27.646
Yes, very, very important.

00:47:29.041 --> 00:47:32.170
No, that's pretty much you you've said she said it all.

00:47:32.170 --> 00:47:39.092
Right, I think that's you did so I appreciate that and um, so I guess now.

00:47:39.112 --> 00:47:48.664
So we know what the foundations of my wage are, we know why my just struggling and I think I'd like to also think of of we mentioned.

00:47:48.664 --> 00:47:51.152
We know quite a few relationships are struggling.

00:47:51.152 --> 00:48:00.525
Some people are struggling so as in some cases they've decided this isn't going to work, or let's take time apart or let's go our separate ways.

00:48:00.525 --> 00:48:06.481
It happens and, um, it's not what they wanted, but it's happened.

00:48:06.481 --> 00:48:09.429
How can they, especially if they have kids or they don't even?

00:48:09.429 --> 00:48:11.233
But how can they, especially if they have kids or if they don't even?

00:48:11.233 --> 00:48:20.146
But how can they and this is a more complex relationship how can they have a functioning relationship, at least if they've got children or that sort of thing?

00:48:20.146 --> 00:48:26.266
How can they find a way to function in the midst of deciding that they're both going to be separate ways?

00:48:26.266 --> 00:48:39.567
Is there any advice or guidance to people about how they can function, at least for the benefit of the children and for their own mental well-being as well, to get rid of the poison and the toxicity that can exist sometimes if they don't deal with it?

00:48:40.809 --> 00:48:42.860
Yes, I think there are a couple of ways.

00:48:42.860 --> 00:49:01.786
I think the first thing is being honest about the pain that you feel and taking time out, if you've already decided that you're going your separate ways, to really think about the marriage and not blaming anyone for other things that could have been done better, differently.

00:49:01.786 --> 00:49:17.672
And then sometimes you might need to get counseling yourself so that you can come to terms with the loss because it's a loss, not denying it the anger, the disappointment, everything that comes with it.

00:49:17.672 --> 00:49:33.425
Once you go through that process of getting healthy, it's a lot easier to then relate with the spouse, ex-spouse or spouse, because then you're relating with them, is recognizing the fact that they're either the mother or the father of your children.

00:49:34.007 --> 00:49:42.471
We've had situations as marriage ministers as well where, when people are getting married, the atmosphere has been really bad between parents.

00:49:42.471 --> 00:49:44.025
Maybe some parents have remarried.

00:49:44.025 --> 00:49:48.322
I mean, I don't want to tell you there's some dramatic stories you won't be so.

00:49:48.322 --> 00:49:55.206
It's about, you know, all of those years have gone by, these kids that are getting married, the children.

00:49:55.206 --> 00:50:05.612
It's so distressing for them that on their wedding day, a day of joy, or even in the run-up to it, the parents haven't gotten over what happened 20, 30 years ago.

00:50:05.612 --> 00:50:10.909
So they feel torn and it's a really sad, sad situation to see.

00:50:10.909 --> 00:50:16.813
So where we're going is remember they're still the father or the mother of your child.

00:50:16.813 --> 00:50:20.751
As much as possible, honor and respect them.

00:50:20.751 --> 00:50:34.128
Don't turn your kids, as much as it might be attractive to you against their father or their mother, because nobody else can be their father or their mother, even if those parents are really bad.

00:50:34.128 --> 00:50:35.773
Let them find out themselves.

00:50:36.175 --> 00:50:41.889
Now I say all of that because we haven't brought in situations of abuse, because that's a different dynamic.

00:50:41.889 --> 00:50:49.043
If there's abuse in the relationship and all of that, then of course you need to protect yourself and protect the children as well.

00:50:49.043 --> 00:50:51.610
So there'll be a different way that that's dealt with.

00:50:51.610 --> 00:50:57.387
And then I also think that you know we hear about forgiveness a lot, whether in Christendom or outside of it.

00:50:57.387 --> 00:50:59.887
You need to go on the journey of forgiveness.

00:50:59.887 --> 00:51:04.389
Forgiveness is not about the other person and forgiveness doesn't mean reconciliation.

00:51:04.389 --> 00:51:13.070
Forgiveness is you looking after your own self, releasing things, and then you know living your best life based on your circumstances.

00:51:15.911 --> 00:51:19.065
If you don't forgive someone, it's like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.

00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:21.885
Yeah, it's true.

00:51:21.885 --> 00:51:27.963
It's so true and also I think one big part can be sort of alluded to it, but it's so important.

00:51:27.963 --> 00:51:31.425
Think about posterity, think about the future.

00:51:31.425 --> 00:51:34.949
You do not exist in isolation.

00:51:34.949 --> 00:51:48.545
There are generations coming after you and generations thereafter and generations thereafter, and what the choices you make shapes the journey of the generations after you, influences their journey.

00:51:48.545 --> 00:51:50.869
So your life is never really just about you, influences their journey.

00:51:50.869 --> 00:51:51.891
So your life is never really just about you.

00:51:51.891 --> 00:51:58.956
So it's as much as I wouldn't want to say this, it's not all just about how you're feeling and what you have experienced.

00:51:58.956 --> 00:51:59.418
A lot of it is.

00:51:59.418 --> 00:52:01.981
But then you need to step beyond that and say, okay.

00:52:02.704 --> 00:52:04.248
Again, I refer to COVID.

00:52:04.248 --> 00:52:06.085
You begin with the end image.

00:52:06.085 --> 00:52:09.266
So where we are now, there is still an end point.

00:52:09.266 --> 00:52:11.045
What do we want to see?

00:52:11.045 --> 00:52:14.228
And I'm hoping that all our listeners are thinking.

00:52:14.460 --> 00:52:22.409
If you're in that sort of situation, you're thinking, okay, I want an end that is better than this current reality, then I'm going to now make choices that will lead in that direction.

00:52:22.409 --> 00:52:27.211
So there's going to be a lot of magnanimity in my heart towards my ex.

00:52:27.211 --> 00:52:31.009
There's going to be a lot of understanding towards them.

00:52:31.009 --> 00:52:32.251
You know, yeah, they are frail.

00:52:32.251 --> 00:52:33.842
In certain ways I am as well.

00:52:33.842 --> 00:52:39.701
When I'm reflecting on what got us to where we are, it takes two to tango.

00:52:39.701 --> 00:52:44.090
There's no way everything could have happened just because they did X.

00:52:44.090 --> 00:52:48.005
Yeah, so it's also me being objective and being honest with myself.

00:52:48.005 --> 00:52:57.889
Now, once I do that, once I realize that I'm just as frail as they are, it helps me to manage the relationship in a better way, moving forward.

00:52:57.889 --> 00:53:00.067
And then I'm thinking what's at stake here?

00:53:00.067 --> 00:53:01.385
A lot of what is at stake.

00:53:01.385 --> 00:53:03.527
I probably will get remarried or something.

00:53:03.527 --> 00:53:05.286
She or he or she will get remarried.

00:53:05.579 --> 00:53:06.605
We go our separate ways.

00:53:06.605 --> 00:53:15.003
What's tying us together are our children and the generations after us and our own legacy, our own testimony.

00:53:15.003 --> 00:53:23.726
If we're Christians, our own testimony, my testimony, still has to show that it is reflective of Christ's nature in me, even though I've been through that.

00:53:23.726 --> 00:53:33.826
So I have to submit that to Christ, to His nature, to His lordship, if I might use that phrase, and that influences the way I conduct myself.

00:53:34.246 --> 00:53:37.190
If I'm not a Christian, I still think about my own legacy.

00:53:37.190 --> 00:54:08.088
I'm still hoping that anyone listening to me is thinking I want a legacy that is better than where I am, and so they are making those choices that will lead in that direction and they are yielded to honoring the other person, respecting the other person, valuing the other person despite their frailties, accommodating the frailties that the other person has and relating in a very mature way with the other person, and that would influence the choices we're making, let's say, on days like Kemi's just mentioned, on the marriage, on the wedding day of our children.

00:54:08.088 --> 00:54:09.420
We're making very mature.

00:54:09.420 --> 00:54:17.525
So I know someone who would say we're making very civil choices, you know that kind of thing, but the outcome is healthy rather than fractious.

00:54:17.545 --> 00:54:23.748
That's so true and as a person of Christian, even as a Christian, you understand that.

00:54:23.748 --> 00:54:31.351
And if you want to call it combo, if you're a Christian that wants to make prayers that be answered, you know that you need to walk around with peace.

00:54:31.351 --> 00:54:43.458
And if there is someone that has been so hurt or you've been so hurt, the reality is that it is a ripple, it has a knock-on effect, like you said, legacy into your life.

00:54:43.458 --> 00:55:04.653
You can never be completely, totally at peace if there is that damaged person, that your actions have led to them being that damaged, because the person is walking around with this bitterness that on a spiritual level, on another level, is projecting in the spiritual realm into into there.

00:55:04.713 --> 00:55:14.764
So you will never quite walk around with that complete peace and and at the same time it's it's also about taking your feelings out of it and just realizing.

00:55:14.764 --> 00:55:17.920
I know people say time heals, but kevin made a great point.

00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:18.663
You have to.

00:55:18.663 --> 00:55:23.036
Time does, but if you don't do the work it will just start on the road.

00:55:23.036 --> 00:55:34.228
Time heals when you do the work, the counseling, the, everything to make it all come to start the journey of healing, because if you don't, then you won't heal.

00:55:34.228 --> 00:55:36.668
So I think there's also just that part.

00:55:36.668 --> 00:55:45.585
That and also once you go into a relationship like my age with someone and that's what you mentioned as well is we look at it at a service level.

00:55:45.585 --> 00:55:51.485
It is so deep that to disentangle something like that there will always be collateral damage.

00:55:51.485 --> 00:55:59.063
So you have to be intentional about the way you bring it to an end, peacefully and lovingly.

00:55:59.063 --> 00:56:02.541
You can't disentangle, or whatever Gwyneth Paltrow calls it.

00:56:02.541 --> 00:56:07.126
You can't consciously uncouple, as they say sometimes.

00:56:08.282 --> 00:56:11.606
You can't consciously uncouple, but with love.

00:56:11.606 --> 00:56:22.726
With love and the way that the person knows that I can still call on you if I need you, because, after all, I did commit to you completely once.

00:56:22.726 --> 00:56:29.840
So, for whatever reason, we are not where we were, but I can still call on you and those are the ones that you know that you're thinking legacy.

00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:31.887
So, no, thank you for that.

00:56:31.887 --> 00:56:36.168
So we've spoken a lot and there's so much more to talk about, I guess.

00:56:36.168 --> 00:56:50.791
To start to wrap it up, if you wanted to give couples now three tips, in your expert opinion, three easy hacks, apart from the more deeper things, what are three things you want to give us?

00:56:50.791 --> 00:56:55.407
Three tips or advice, or just one that you think?

00:56:55.407 --> 00:56:58.253
Do this and it will make a difference.

00:56:59.500 --> 00:57:01.960
Yeah, I think for me it's pretty straightforward.

00:57:01.960 --> 00:57:06.449
I think invest in your marriage, invest in your relationship.

00:57:06.449 --> 00:57:07.612
It is so important.

00:57:07.612 --> 00:57:10.882
It's like you know, I have plants all over the house now.

00:57:10.882 --> 00:57:11.902
It is so important.

00:57:11.902 --> 00:57:17.266
It's like you know, I have plants all over the house now and I realized that when I'm watering them, I see the growth that they're experiencing.

00:57:17.266 --> 00:57:21.670
If you don't invest in your marriage, it's going to cost you.

00:57:21.670 --> 00:57:25.454
It's going to cost you in, maybe, disconnection from your spouse.

00:57:25.454 --> 00:57:30.297
You know that the number one reason that people break up is actually drift.

00:57:30.297 --> 00:57:34.344
Yeah, it's not possible.

00:57:34.344 --> 00:57:40.114
No, it's just a drift that happens over time in your relationship we something apart?

00:57:40.134 --> 00:57:42.304
we just, we just, we just.

00:57:42.304 --> 00:57:44.590
We just don't have a connection anymore.

00:57:44.590 --> 00:57:45.773
We just drifted apart.

00:57:45.773 --> 00:57:48.947
I don't feel like a person I'm married anymore, exactly so I don't feel I don't recognize the person I married anymore.

00:57:49.971 --> 00:57:50.793
Exactly.

00:57:50.893 --> 00:57:52.597
So I don't feel anything for you anymore.

00:57:52.597 --> 00:57:56.039
The goal is because there's no investment.

00:57:57.143 --> 00:57:58.750
Because we have nothing in common.

00:57:58.750 --> 00:58:00.565
I don't know what's going on in your world.

00:58:00.565 --> 00:58:06.849
You don't know what's going on Meanwhile before we got married and even when we got married, we were all over each other like white on rice.

00:58:06.849 --> 00:58:16.128
So you need to take that time and it's not about what we're doing, talking about bills or children just investing in your relationship.

00:58:16.128 --> 00:58:24.646
If it's date night, if it's doing finding an activity you can do together, if it's going on a retreat, if it's going away on a weekend, just the two of you.

00:58:24.646 --> 00:58:27.956
Don't take your relationship for granted.

00:58:27.956 --> 00:58:29.842
That's definitely my number one.

00:58:30.603 --> 00:58:39.931
I think my number two since you've asked for three Femi would be to keep improving our communication with each other.

00:58:39.931 --> 00:58:40.672
That's a good point.

00:58:40.672 --> 00:58:44.081
Communication, we say.

00:58:44.081 --> 00:58:46.409
Communication is the lifeblood of the relationship.

00:58:46.570 --> 00:58:46.809
Yes.

00:58:47.061 --> 00:58:54.545
So once there's a constant flow between us, obviously that means paying attention to each other.

00:58:54.545 --> 00:59:04.851
It means listening, learning to listen not just the surface, listening what is also the undercurrents, what is also being, what's being said and what is unsaid.

00:59:04.851 --> 00:59:10.489
And as you pay attention to the person, you you learn to hear that, asking questions.

00:59:10.489 --> 00:59:21.585
Listen, listen, yes, listen, listen, listen and then keep asking more questions, reflecting back on what is being said, checking your understanding.

00:59:21.585 --> 00:59:30.831
So you spend 70% of your time trying to listen and get understanding from the person and 30% of your time telling them what you want to share.

00:59:30.831 --> 00:59:41.971
If you do it that way, first thing you'll come across really wise, because when you do share, you're sharing out of what you've learned from them and it's like how did you know that?

00:59:41.971 --> 00:59:46.871
But the reality is you're paying a lot of attention and you're asking the right questions.

00:59:46.871 --> 00:59:51.248
But also it means that everybody wants to be listened to.

00:59:51.248 --> 00:59:54.373
Everybody wants to be listened to.

00:59:54.414 --> 00:59:56.644
It's a gift to listen to somebody else.

00:59:56.644 --> 00:59:59.686
It's a gift you give to them so they feel really valued.

00:59:59.686 --> 01:00:02.925
So that will enhance your relationship as well.

01:00:02.925 --> 01:00:15.851
So, communication, all the aspects of communication, the listening, the sharing, the getting more savvy with your language as well, understanding what filter, what triggers your spouse.

01:00:15.851 --> 01:00:19.951
Some words, because we've heard them.

01:00:19.951 --> 01:00:22.827
I have a friend from childhood.

01:00:22.827 --> 01:00:38.907
They always told her calm down, calm down, because she was a very instinctive, proactive kind of personality and in the culture that she grew up in that was not something that was expected of a woman.

01:00:38.927 --> 01:00:39.809
They said calm down in Europe.

01:00:39.809 --> 01:00:49.735
They said calm down in Europe as in calm down in Europe you just go off when you say that to her exactly so.

01:00:49.775 --> 01:00:57.264
When that person is now an adult, achieving things on her own, living her own life, and there's somebody just out of, it might not even be flippant.

01:00:57.264 --> 01:01:00.706
Something's up and I'm like, hey, no, calm down let's, and the person just goes off.

01:01:00.706 --> 01:01:04.190
But you are her husband at home, She'd understand that.

01:01:04.190 --> 01:01:05.385
So you should know the trigger words.

01:01:05.385 --> 01:01:07.786
We I won't trigger what's based on where we're coming from.

01:01:07.786 --> 01:01:09.369
You should know the filters.

01:01:09.369 --> 01:01:23.527
It takes time, but because you are interested in understanding the person rather than making them what you expect them to be, once you try to really understand the person all of them the communication is geared towards that and then it makes a huge difference.

01:01:23.527 --> 01:01:26.550
I would say communication would be definitely number two.

01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:31.818
Yeah, it's the lifeblood, and then we've kind of wrote this together.

01:01:31.818 --> 01:01:32.641
You probably laugh.

01:01:32.641 --> 01:01:40.454
We're Christians, so a lot of our belief in marriage is derived from our beliefs in God.

01:01:40.454 --> 01:01:44.385
So God created and designed marriage.

01:01:44.385 --> 01:01:46.710
There's an order, there's a structure.

01:01:46.710 --> 01:01:50.847
Sex is one of the gifts that you can give in worship to God.

01:01:50.847 --> 01:01:55.831
So invest in your sex life and your prayer life.

01:01:55.851 --> 01:01:56.960
Because I think we would together.

01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:02.728
I can imagine a couple using that word against each other it's time to worship.

01:02:02.728 --> 01:02:03.992
Bless my worship.

01:02:06.282 --> 01:02:08.369
You mean both the sex and the prayers.

01:02:09.601 --> 01:02:11.166
But I get what you mean People level.

01:02:11.166 --> 01:02:13.827
That Don't trivialize it.

01:02:13.827 --> 01:02:18.186
It can be quite Because it serves a purpose, doesn't it?

01:02:19.329 --> 01:02:20.010
It does.

01:02:20.010 --> 01:02:22.288
It's meant to connect you consistently.

01:02:22.701 --> 01:02:24.608
Because when you're arguing, it can bring you together.

01:02:24.608 --> 01:02:26.246
When you're happy, it can bring you together.

01:02:28.585 --> 01:02:29.708
It binds you together.

01:02:29.980 --> 01:02:31.123
It's like oil, isn't?

01:02:31.123 --> 01:02:40.762
It's like engine oil, you know, if you're not having what separates us from what separates our relationship, it's one of those things, so it's very, very important.

01:02:40.802 --> 01:02:52.713
Yes, because it's in marriage it's it's the safest type that you can have as well, because you can be completely vulnerable in it as well absolutely it's.

01:02:52.913 --> 01:02:58.780
It's really difficult to keep fighting someone that you're praying with and that you're also being intimate.

01:02:58.780 --> 01:03:01.827
It's, it's really difficult, that's true, excellent.

01:03:02.068 --> 01:03:03.873
On that note, thank you so much.

01:03:03.873 --> 01:03:09.782
We have to bring you back on part more so where can people people have listened to this and go and gone.

01:03:09.782 --> 01:03:10.905
I want to know some of the events.

01:03:10.905 --> 01:03:12.195
Or first, before we talk about events, where can people people have listened to this and gone.

01:03:12.195 --> 01:03:12.416
I want to know some of the events.

01:03:12.416 --> 01:03:21.117
So first, before we talk about events, where can they find out, where can they keep track of you and just get more of your content, or just find out more?

01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:23.746
Sure, so we have two.

01:03:23.746 --> 01:03:24.601
So we've got.

01:03:24.601 --> 01:03:33.594
If they go to lovetalkstv, we have lots of resources in the resources section complementary resources as well as paid resources.

01:03:33.594 --> 01:03:39.164
We also have a YouTube channel, Two actually.

01:03:39.164 --> 01:03:47.452
There's the one that's called love talkstv, but then we also have the tight knots one where we've got like 40 or 50 videos.

01:03:47.452 --> 01:03:49.967
So we lead the marriage ministry in our church.

01:03:49.967 --> 01:04:07.385
It's called Tight Knots and we have over 40, something like that videos on different aspects, just short videos around, tips on different aspects of marriage, from in-laws to sex, to communication, to conflict resolution, to juggling, demanding careers, just so many things.

01:04:07.385 --> 01:04:09.746
So, yeah, they can check us out.

01:04:09.746 --> 01:04:11.233
On the Jesus House.

01:04:11.233 --> 01:04:17.010
It's called nourishing your marriage under the jesus house series, so they can check that out.

01:04:17.010 --> 01:04:25.532
And then we also run courses as well, so it's all on wwwlovetalkstv under our academy.

01:04:25.532 --> 01:04:28.362
They can definitely find us there and um.

01:04:29.023 --> 01:04:32.916
You'll be having an event in the next few weeks that they can come to right.

01:04:34.159 --> 01:04:41.164
Yeah, so we have this couples workshop that we run virtually and people sign in from different parts of the world.

01:04:41.164 --> 01:04:48.588
It's very much focused on couples and it's called Simbi, so we have the Simbi Couples Workshop.

01:04:48.588 --> 01:05:06.490
Understanding us, we're consultants in life, so what we've done is we've brought together some of the tools that we use with corporates, but this one is a Christian expression and so when couples sign up for this, they would get a link.

01:05:06.490 --> 01:05:13.603
They'll complete a profile each and then we have a joined up report for the couples and we're going to go through it.

01:05:13.603 --> 01:05:23.634
So it's talking about all the different aspects of your relationship, from in-laws to money, to sex, to communication, to conflict resolution.

01:05:23.634 --> 01:05:31.342
So that's basically the foundation of the course, and every couple will get like their own personalized couple report which they can also keep referring to even outside of the course.

01:05:31.342 --> 01:05:35.909
And every couple will get like, their own personalized couple report which they can also keep referring to even outside of the workshop.

01:05:35.909 --> 01:05:37.146
So we're excited about that.

01:05:37.239 --> 01:05:42.110
It's on the 16th of November and it starts at 10 am UK time.

01:05:42.110 --> 01:05:49.266
What we've also done is we've got an annual couples devotional, so we're going to just give that for every couple that signs up.

01:05:49.266 --> 01:05:49.668
Signs up.

01:05:49.668 --> 01:05:55.927
They will get that, the journal as well as the devotional Call the Seeds of Love devotional.

01:05:55.927 --> 01:05:56.748
I forgot about that.

01:05:56.748 --> 01:05:58.432
Yes, that's the name, lovely.

01:05:59.121 --> 01:06:00.427
Thank you for coming so much.

01:06:00.427 --> 01:06:01.706
So, everyone, I encourage you.

01:06:01.706 --> 01:06:15.853
You can see that Bodhi and Kemi have vast amounts of knowledge about relationships, but ultimately, above all, it's from a place of faith, which is the truth, and also they genuinely, genuinely care about relationships.

01:06:15.853 --> 01:06:18.188
That's the foremost thing about it.

01:06:18.188 --> 01:06:19.565
So you've heard it.

01:06:19.565 --> 01:06:22.728
It's about being thanks for listening today.

01:06:22.728 --> 01:06:23.831
It's about being vulnerable.

01:06:23.831 --> 01:06:26.708
It's about having the right mindset.

01:06:26.708 --> 01:06:33.333
It's also about bringing value to the relationship as well.

01:06:33.333 --> 01:06:44.690
It's about listening, it's about communication, it's about intimacy, but, above all, it's also about putting the other, putting both of you, above your individual needs.

01:06:44.690 --> 01:06:48.664
That is what the secret is without the fruitful and loving relationship.

01:06:48.664 --> 01:06:51.853
Kevinemi and Buddy, thank you so, so much for coming.

01:06:51.853 --> 01:06:55.050
It's been an absolute pleasure and a blessing.

01:06:55.050 --> 01:07:04.846
Take those tips and invest in your own relationship and, even if you don't have one yet, you've got enough to arm you to get ready for when you're in it yourself.

01:07:04.846 --> 01:07:10.034
And, with that said, have a great week, get unleashed and stay unleashed.

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