Aug. 6, 2024

# 98 Exploring The Dance of Transformation | Catherine Llewellyn

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Season 1

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In this episode, we welcome Catherine Llewellyn, a transformation catalyst and humanistic psychologist. Catherine shares her journey of personal and professional growth, influenced by her non-conformist parents, and how it led her to become an expert in humanistic psychology and conscious dance facilitation. We dive into her upbringing in a health-conscious household, her perceptions on human consciousness, and the impactful practices of conscious dance and Pallawa energy work. This conversation offers profound insights into the importance of self-awareness and holistic wellness.

Timeline Highlights

02:45 Catherine's Unique Upbringing
04:03 The Philosophy of Self-Healing
09:13 The Journey to Consciousness
16:01 Understanding Humanistic Psychology
21:42 Exploring Conscious Dance
29:19 Learning the Basics of Dance
29:45 The Flow of Life and Dance
31:22 Creating a Safe Space for Dance
32:09 The Healing Power of Freestyle Dance
32:36 Group Dynamics in Dance Sessions
33:05 The Impact of Commitment and Presence
34:07 The Role of Sacred Readings and Music
35:53 The End of the Dance Session
41:18 Introduction to Pellewa
42:56 Understanding Pellewa Energy
49:42 The Hero's Journey and Seeking Help
52:26 Promoting the Truth and Transcendence Podcast

Connect with Catherine:

https://www.newagehuman.com/guests/catherine-llewellyn/

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Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:01.689
We're going to dance for six days straight.

00:00:01.689 --> 00:00:02.290
You ready?

00:00:03.189 --> 00:00:04.429
I said, yeah, why not?

00:00:04.599 --> 00:00:04.860
Right.

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Actually we didn't dance the whole time we danced.

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all morning every day, all evening, every night.

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It's almost like that orgasmic peak moment, which you can get in the dance or when you're creating When somebody really opens up to what they're actually experiencing in the present moment fully, fully receives it and lets it in.

00:00:25.565 --> 00:00:29.385
It always, always, always transforms into something else.

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Let's go.

00:00:34.545 --> 00:00:36.066
So welcome.

00:00:36.066 --> 00:00:39.170
Today we have Katherine Llewellyn.

00:00:39.229 --> 00:00:47.409
She's a transformation catalyst, humanistic psychologist, and she's known for her work with Pellewa and Conscious Dance Facilitation.

00:00:48.630 --> 00:00:55.490
Today we're going to be mostly mindfulness with a touch of health because of Katherine's background.

00:00:55.490 --> 00:00:57.000
Katherine, welcome to the show.

00:00:57.615 --> 00:00:58.076
Thank you.

00:00:58.125 --> 00:01:01.216
And I'm very, very happy to be here with your sunny smile.

00:01:01.225 --> 00:01:01.875
Welcoming me.

00:01:03.515 --> 00:01:09.046
Speaking of sunny, you just said that you're, you went through like four different weather patterns today alone.

00:01:09.415 --> 00:01:10.876
You're in Wales, right?

00:01:11.225 --> 00:01:11.846
I'm in Wales.

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It's, it's all hills and valleys and sheep and birds.

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It's lovely.

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And the weather completely, I live, I'm over, I'm halfway up the side of the valley, I'm overlooking the valley,

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so

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I can be in my living room looking out and I can see three different weather systems at the same time on the hills.

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And in the valley, it's quite extraordinary

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that I do feel like you have the potential background that people have by default on their computers.

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You know how it cycles through the backgrounds, like, you know, if you want visit Wales and you see like this huge landscape and I feel like you just wake up to that.

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I wouldn't be surprised if some of your videos have that in the background, you know, if not, I totally would love to see that.

00:02:00.370 --> 00:02:00.971
Yeah.

00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:02.200
Well, that's an interesting idea.

00:02:02.906 --> 00:02:05.885
Trouble with sunlight, you don't know what it's going to do

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when you're filming.

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So,

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yeah, you know, just an idea.

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It's an idea.

00:02:11.855 --> 00:02:12.425
Thank you.

00:02:13.756 --> 00:02:16.286
So you've, you've had a very interesting journey.

00:02:16.286 --> 00:02:19.355
You're a 1000 percent what we would call right.

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A spiritual entrepreneur.

00:02:21.165 --> 00:02:30.371
Um, You've done, you've lived a life of curiosity and you've gone and if you're interested in it, you've gone for it, which is awesome.

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And I want to express to the audience and, and give them a chance to get a feel for your background and why, why, why consciousness of everything.

00:02:41.061 --> 00:02:45.441
And I think you have an interesting beginning if you want to start with where it all began.

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I think it started with your father, right?

00:02:47.996 --> 00:02:52.816
Yes, uh, well, both my parents actually were kind of unusual.

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She came from an aristocratic background, you know, grew up with nannies and servants and that kind of thing, and she didn't really fit in.

00:03:02.415 --> 00:03:03.876
She was too passionate.

00:03:04.325 --> 00:03:10.556
She was too, she became an artist in Chelsea, which was really, really out there in those days in London.

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My father, meanwhile, came from a really, really working class family, working on the docks, and they all expected him to go that route.

00:03:18.425 --> 00:03:19.536
He was like, no.

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And he went off and got a scholarship and a degree, and they kind of met in the middle in London, completely unlikely, very, Non conformist human beings.

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And luckily and magically for me, they got married and had children and I was the first child.

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And so we were brought up in this really unusual situation.

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He actually retrained as a naturopath and osteopath.

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in his forties, because someone in the family had had an extraordinary cure from something awful was probably something like polio or something that was just cured with nature cure.

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No

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drugs.

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He said, right, I'm dropping what I'm retraining now, which was years of retraining.

00:04:03.355 --> 00:04:17.586
And so we're I grew up in a household which was all about the body will heal itself, that the body is designed to heal itself, and also that the spirit is designed to expand and express.

00:04:18.235 --> 00:04:19.725
You know, there's nothing wrong with us.

00:04:20.165 --> 00:04:21.935
The design is excellent.

00:04:22.665 --> 00:04:25.005
If you don't go in and mess it up, right?

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It's a hard

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pill for some people to swallow too.

00:04:27.896 --> 00:04:31.725
Honestly, I mean, for me as a child, it was just, you know, I was born that way.

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And that's how it was right at the beginning.

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And so there were times as a child when I said, well, why can't we have desserts and sweets?

00:04:40.975 --> 00:04:43.375
Well, because they're going to ruin your health.

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All right, then.

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Now I'm so grateful.

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You know, it was like, okay, you've got a cold.

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Go to bed.

00:04:51.336 --> 00:04:52.045
I haven't got a cold.

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He could tell there was something coming on.

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You know, those people who can tell when something's, you know, before you realize it and you're four and it's sunlight outside.

00:05:02.245 --> 00:05:05.235
You're in bed with the blankets up to your chin.

00:05:05.625 --> 00:05:07.096
You're staying there for four days.

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The doctor comes around and gives your father the medicine.

00:05:09.961 --> 00:05:12.130
He goes, thank you very much, and chucks it down the toilet.

00:05:14.081 --> 00:05:17.670
So I've got a fantastic immune system.

00:05:17.711 --> 00:05:19.230
I'm very healthy.

00:05:20.230 --> 00:05:23.911
And so my energy, quality of my energy is much better because of that.

00:05:24.521 --> 00:05:30.951
And my imagination and my sense of, um, curiosity, as you put it.

00:05:31.230 --> 00:05:37.021
And he was also talking to us about philosophy and doing all kinds of wild stuff.

00:05:37.651 --> 00:05:50.920
Right from very early age, you know, I was going to spend a weekend with somebody at the age of six and she was developing a new modality around nonviolent communication and she was trying out the processes on me.

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I was six.

00:05:52.930 --> 00:05:57.560
Now I didn't know that she was going to become a really well known practitioner, which she did.

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She was a friend of the family.

00:06:01.781 --> 00:06:03.100
These things were normal for us.

00:06:03.451 --> 00:06:03.821
That's great.

00:06:05.255 --> 00:06:13.935
It really, it really kicked me off on that whole very inquiring, curious, don't necessarily believe everything everybody says, don't necessarily believe everything you read.

00:06:14.826 --> 00:06:18.526
And don't be overly upset if you think people are talking nonsense.

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That's their problem.

00:06:20.165 --> 00:06:21.136
It's not your problem.

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You know, your problem is trying to connect with your own truth.

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So that, that means I'm much less badly affected, I think, than some people when they're faced with some of the nonsense that goes on in the world.

00:06:34.430 --> 00:06:40.250
I don't really take it personally because I'm like, Hey, they're on their path, everyone's on their path.

00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:41.440
Yeah.

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And if

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I get obsessed with someone else's path.

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That's my problem.

00:06:47.110 --> 00:06:49.711
And, uh, yes, I agree.

00:06:50.201 --> 00:07:01.810
And a lot of people believe the complete opposite, which, which makes it hard to communicate, to understand each other, to progress, right?

00:07:01.810 --> 00:07:08.050
You have all these unnecessary hurdles that are hurdles that we created for ourselves.

00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:21.055
And it's interesting that like your life started like that, where your father just would, just flip the switch and went a completely different path, went all natural.

00:07:21.086 --> 00:07:27.036
And then when the doctors came and gave the prescription, he, I guess he didn't want to say what he was doing too much.

00:07:27.036 --> 00:07:27.985
And he was like, yeah, yeah, sure.

00:07:27.985 --> 00:07:29.466
And he just flushed it down the toilet.

00:07:29.466 --> 00:07:36.286
So it's, it's interesting how he would just have, I guess, the outside world still not.

00:07:36.790 --> 00:07:38.180
No, too much of what he's doing.

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He kept it kind of like a secret.

00:07:38.961 --> 00:07:39.370
Oh, well,

00:07:39.370 --> 00:07:39.500
no.

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Actually, everybody knew what he was doing.

00:07:41.281 --> 00:07:41.581
Oh.

00:07:41.901 --> 00:07:55.911
He was described for miles around as the local witch doctor and patients would come to him as a last resort when the medical established and written them off and said, you've got this till you die now.

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And he would fix them and come in and tell us about it.

00:07:59.776 --> 00:08:00.076
Huh.

00:08:00.185 --> 00:08:16.165
You know, with a salt bath and stop eating sugar or, you know, he would just, after he died, we found a box of, um, uh, like a little box full of little cards, you know, that you might have for people's addresses in the old days.

00:08:16.826 --> 00:08:21.935
Each card was a different dietary regime and there had to be 150 in there.

00:08:22.276 --> 00:08:22.946
Wow.

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And I thought, we know so little about this stuff.

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Yeah.

00:08:30.865 --> 00:08:32.135
But of course we couldn't.

00:08:33.235 --> 00:08:44.115
Each one, he knew when to use each one, we didn't, and so actually we destroyed it because we knew if we gave it to somebody, even a practitioner, they wouldn't know how to use it safely.

00:08:45.326 --> 00:08:46.355
Interesting.

00:08:46.745 --> 00:08:46.946
Wow.

00:08:47.015 --> 00:08:47.706
So it was, it

00:08:47.706 --> 00:08:51.765
was one of those, the whole, we and the rest of the brothers and sisters were like, what do we do with this?

00:08:52.605 --> 00:08:58.946
Some of the, many of the diets he'd developed himself and he knew when to use one, when to switch to another.

00:08:59.405 --> 00:09:00.306
It was an art.

00:09:00.796 --> 00:09:06.416
Well, that's unfortunate that like he wasn't able to like pass it on or like duplicate it, you know

00:09:06.806 --> 00:09:07.316
I

00:09:07.316 --> 00:09:11.466
mean, I know a lot of people now are finding ways and they're figuring things out, right?

00:09:13.155 --> 00:09:27.535
Yeah, so interesting how your life Started out with such a like really good upbringing and healthy mentally and physically What made you decide to put more emphasis on?

00:09:27.586 --> 00:09:28.735
consciousness

00:09:31.051 --> 00:09:43.400
I think it was, um, I always knew, uh, that there was something about, um, I'm not quite sure how to put it.

00:09:44.130 --> 00:09:53.671
I think when I was very young, I recognized that a lot of the adults in particular around didn't seem to be fulfilled or happy.

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In those days I didn't know the word fulfilled, right, but they didn't seem happy and they seemed to be lying to themselves.

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And to each other and just talking nonsense that they didn't even believe in.

00:10:06.091 --> 00:10:11.900
And, and I thought, why, why are they doing that?

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What a waste of energy.

00:10:14.620 --> 00:10:16.390
It just seemed to me a waste of energy.

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Um, and I was really interested in why do people feel the need to do that?

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There must be a reason why they're doing it, you know, because on the face of it, logically, it makes no sense.

00:10:29.181 --> 00:10:30.490
So why are they doing it?

00:10:30.620 --> 00:10:36.176
Um, How do people live another way?

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You know, how do people be more fulfilled and satisfied?

00:10:38.755 --> 00:10:42.975
And of course, the other thing that came in, and I had that with me as a child.

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an innocent child, you know, I knew nothing really about what it is to be a human being yet.

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And of course, then I hit puberty and young adulthood and everything else.

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And then I kind of discovered all of the, uh, baggage and hormonal and emotional and psychological drama That we all have to kind of go through and I, I realized that these will have a really strong force to them that could enhance our experience of fulfillment, but could also really get in the way by being pulled off track, you know, by having needs that we don't understand.

00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:34.660
And that we're trying to get met, we do stupid things to get them met and all that stuff and then you have to recover from that and oh my God, you know, and meanwhile, all this stuff coming in from the media and what everyone else thinks is the right thing to do and what to wear and all of that.

00:11:35.500 --> 00:11:46.480
So I then kind of got a little bit more empathy for the fact that people were just trying to survive, they were trying to get through as best they could.

00:11:47.110 --> 00:12:08.130
You know, and then later on, as I got older, I also understood that, you know, by the time people reach their thirties, forties, fifties, whatever, they had a lot to lose, you know, in terms of approval at work, a family, you know, just keeping the kids from killing themselves is just a complete mission, right?

00:12:08.130 --> 00:12:12.638
So what are they going to do with their lives?

00:12:12.638 --> 00:12:13.859
Oh my God, she's pregnant.

00:12:13.859 --> 00:12:14.591
She's only 14.

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I mean, you know, all the stuff that parents have to deal with and.

00:12:20.110 --> 00:12:26.740
In work situations, highly competitive, you know, how do you compete and get what you need without losing your soul?

00:12:27.691 --> 00:12:28.100
And how do

00:12:28.100 --> 00:12:30.120
you relate with people?

00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:35.740
You know, all of these challenges that people have, which of course at six, I had no idea about.

00:12:36.826 --> 00:12:42.916
So I just totally naive, but the, the essence of that observation at the beginning carried through.

00:12:42.956 --> 00:12:48.086
And then I went through all my own ups and downs and stupidities, and I'm sure I've got more to come, right?

00:12:49.046 --> 00:12:49.316
For being

00:12:49.426 --> 00:12:49.806
human.

00:12:50.745 --> 00:12:51.466
Absolutely right.

00:12:51.916 --> 00:12:54.966
And I learned an awful lot on my own behalf through that.

00:12:55.015 --> 00:13:05.535
And I, and I came to recognize that it was something about wealth, this idea of wealth, Well, when you say that word, the first people think of is money.

00:13:06.421 --> 00:13:12.701
And then if you widen it a bit, you might think of property, a beautiful place to live or a beautiful car.

00:13:13.301 --> 00:13:25.910
And I kind of hit on this thing of, to me, the most important wealth was the wealth within, which I came to realize was actually consciousness, or you might call it spirit.

00:13:26.551 --> 00:13:35.510
Because I recognize that when, when that's in good shape in me, it does not matter what I have in material terms.

00:13:35.571 --> 00:13:36.711
It is absolutely unimportant.

00:13:39.196 --> 00:13:52.145
And I'm, you know, in awe of the miraculousness of a blade of grass or something, you know, I'm just in a fantastic space because that inner experience actually is the wealth.

00:13:52.716 --> 00:13:56.015
And so I then decided to invest in that consciously.

00:13:56.015 --> 00:14:09.865
I did a lot of trainings, you know, investing in my own self awareness, my, um, emotional capacities, my intellectual capacities, my energetic capacities, and just.

00:14:10.395 --> 00:14:27.495
expanding myself as much as I could, because that means I've now got enormous wealth within that cannot be affected by what's happening in the markets or whether somebody likes me or what the weather's doing because it's inherent.

00:14:27.495 --> 00:14:29.235
It's, it's all the way through me.

00:14:30.125 --> 00:14:37.875
Um, and of course that then fits perfectly back to this whole idea of, could I help people to be more fulfilled?

00:14:38.625 --> 00:14:39.115
Guess what?

00:14:39.206 --> 00:14:41.946
I mean, I got much better chance of doing that.

00:14:42.525 --> 00:14:55.076
When I'm in a good state of consciousness and awareness, because then I'm less likely to get a kind of ego hook into their issues and into their transformation.

00:14:55.076 --> 00:15:02.346
I'm, I'm more able to be more empathic, but without having my own agendas about that person.

00:15:03.076 --> 00:15:03.365
Yeah,

00:15:03.725 --> 00:15:08.076
I can, I can work with giving them space, respecting their space.

00:15:08.740 --> 00:15:22.280
whilst being very present with them, you know, cause I'm, of course that I can't do that a hundred percent, but much, much more so than I would have been able to do if it wasn't for the work I've done and that I continue to do.

00:15:24.135 --> 00:15:40.466
And I know that you, your curiosity has brought you to a lot of, I don't know if you wouldn't want to call them modalities, but there's different aspects of training and you have a good list of things that you've done on that journey of.

00:15:41.336 --> 00:15:46.635
Like you said, working on yourself so you can help others do the same and I, I, I, I, I agree with you, right?

00:15:46.666 --> 00:16:00.400
It's the, the lens that you use when you look at the world and yourself as, as that gets better and cleaner, it's easier to to just do more and do better and be, be happier, right?

00:16:00.400 --> 00:16:01.571
If you feel better, you do better.

00:16:01.591 --> 00:16:14.701
Like, you know, like if, if that's like a tiny, tiny phrase, um, but there's like a, a specific way that you help people and it's called humanistic psychology, and I wanted to get into that.

00:16:14.701 --> 00:16:18.441
Cause I'm like, what is that?

00:16:18.441 --> 00:16:19.421
It sounds interesting.

00:16:19.811 --> 00:16:20.301
Yeah.

00:16:20.380 --> 00:16:25.461
Well, it's very interesting and, uh, it would be possible to talk about it for a very long time and I have done.

00:16:26.061 --> 00:16:29.581
Um, So you've probably heard of psychoanalysis and Freud.

00:16:29.910 --> 00:16:30.400
Yes.

00:16:30.510 --> 00:16:31.510
Right from the very beginning.

00:16:31.510 --> 00:16:35.581
So that was the first psychotherapeutic modality, if you like.

00:16:36.061 --> 00:16:47.191
And it was, it was all about going right back to the beginning and analyzing everything, but particularly focusing on trauma and family dysfunction.

00:16:47.500 --> 00:16:49.100
So it was really focusing on all of that.

00:16:49.350 --> 00:16:53.400
And that would be the first place you would go to find out what the trauma is and what the damage is.

00:16:54.581 --> 00:17:02.350
And that's a particular emphasis and there are situations where that is the best, most useful emphasis for a particular individual person.

00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:12.951
But there came a kind of a backlash later on where people started to say, yeah, but there's a lot of people where that's not the best route because it's just depressing.

00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:16.560
You know, if you don't need to do that, why would you do that?

00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:21.550
Because it can be really, and we can all find something awful that happened when we were a child.

00:17:22.336 --> 00:17:28.236
And we can all kind of wallow in being miserable about it, anyone can do that, but for a lot of us, that's not required.

00:17:28.875 --> 00:17:38.236
So there was a kind of a, and there was also a sort of authoritarianism in psychoanalysis, where the therapist is the authority over the client.

00:17:39.766 --> 00:17:43.935
And I've read some stuff, somebody sent me some stuff about a brilliant piece someone had written.

00:17:43.935 --> 00:17:45.326
I said, this piece is great.

00:17:45.605 --> 00:17:50.826
The only thing that's wrong with it is that the therapist thinks they know best about the client.

00:17:51.205 --> 00:17:51.965
What's that about?

00:17:52.205 --> 00:17:53.205
That's insane.

00:17:53.546 --> 00:18:00.375
I said, yeah, psychotherapy, uh, that's, that's what is based on that assumption.

00:18:00.955 --> 00:18:05.266
Now we all know now that Freud was not a well adjusted guy.

00:18:06.726 --> 00:18:07.195
Right.

00:18:07.246 --> 00:18:07.336
I

00:18:07.346 --> 00:18:07.615
think

00:18:07.846 --> 00:18:08.976
I like how you put that

00:18:09.576 --> 00:18:10.536
understatement.

00:18:10.546 --> 00:18:10.996
Right.

00:18:11.326 --> 00:18:12.605
Um, so.

00:18:13.260 --> 00:18:17.891
Every human being who works with other human being has got their bias, that they've all got their flaws.

00:18:17.901 --> 00:18:26.371
So the minute you put the therapist in charge of the client, the authority over the client, you're going to have hell to pay.

00:18:26.381 --> 00:18:29.721
It's going to be, there's going to be problems, in my opinion, right?

00:18:29.750 --> 00:18:33.361
I've just discounted the whole of the psychotherapy community.

00:18:35.590 --> 00:18:44.500
But then what happened was, um, there was this sense of, no, we want to emphasize growth.

00:18:45.405 --> 00:18:47.816
not just trauma and damage.

00:18:48.215 --> 00:18:49.336
People want to grow.

00:18:50.026 --> 00:18:53.615
There are a lot of people who aren't really damaged, but they want to understand themselves better.

00:18:54.076 --> 00:18:55.566
They want to expand and grow.

00:18:55.586 --> 00:19:00.066
They want to, um, understand their strengths, not just their weaknesses.

00:19:01.046 --> 00:19:09.546
And also there's a lot of people, particularly as, uh, the level of education grew over the decades and people were reading about all this stuff.

00:19:09.546 --> 00:19:10.796
They knew a lot of stuff.

00:19:10.796 --> 00:19:11.671
So.

00:19:14.310 --> 00:19:17.020
These people don't need to go through psychoanalysis, a lot of them.

00:19:17.750 --> 00:19:33.851
What about if there was a situation where it's more of a collegiate discussion between the practitioner and the client, where it's about respect for the client, that respect that the client will naturally grow and flourish and expand, unless you actively prevent them from doing that.

00:19:33.861 --> 00:19:43.260
If you have that as an assumption, and that you respect their, their choice of direction, their choice of path, What they want to work on, how they want to do it.

00:19:43.760 --> 00:19:45.550
And then you're there in service to that.

00:19:46.691 --> 00:19:48.951
And you're showing up really authentically with them.

00:19:49.260 --> 00:19:57.891
So that in relationship, you can be serving them within that rather than they're lying on a couch and you're sitting behind them above them, right?

00:19:59.121 --> 00:20:01.830
Then that could be a much more fruitful approach.

00:20:01.861 --> 00:20:03.851
And that is humanistic psychology.

00:20:04.391 --> 00:20:04.611
That

00:20:04.611 --> 00:20:06.840
was the basis of humanistic psychology.

00:20:07.715 --> 00:20:28.266
So I trained in that in 1996 to 1998 in my early 40s, but when I went on that master's degree, I discovered that for the 16 years prior to that, that I've been working with people, I'd actually been practicing humanistic psychology without knowing it.

00:20:28.665 --> 00:20:29.066
That's awesome.

00:20:29.076 --> 00:20:29.336
Because

00:20:29.756 --> 00:20:33.066
that was my kind of bias already.

00:20:33.955 --> 00:20:38.665
So I thought this is fantastic now I know what it's called.

00:20:40.185 --> 00:20:41.855
And of course, I learned a lot of new stuff.

00:20:41.986 --> 00:20:49.976
You know, I, I learned how to do things much better, more skillfully, more elegantly, and more powerfully through, through the training.

00:20:50.635 --> 00:21:00.221
And I'm not surprised that you naturally went that route because, of how you were brought up and what you saw that needed to be worked on.

00:21:00.230 --> 00:21:02.530
That's, and I agree with that, right?

00:21:02.550 --> 00:21:06.111
Where it's, it's, it's like a consult.

00:21:06.111 --> 00:21:06.871
It's your friend.

00:21:06.871 --> 00:21:12.171
You're, you're talking with somebody instead of, Someone telling you, well, you're messed up and this is what you need to do.

00:21:12.171 --> 00:21:14.030
And, you know, call me tomorrow.

00:21:14.080 --> 00:21:18.010
And most of the movies are like that, right?

00:21:18.050 --> 00:21:22.611
Where are you just like, you know, doc, I'm all messed up.

00:21:23.080 --> 00:21:28.191
And then you have like the person sitting in the chair, doodling like, and then tell me how that makes you feel.

00:21:28.230 --> 00:21:32.750
You know, they're just uninterested and they're just checking boxes.

00:21:33.570 --> 00:21:37.730
Um, which is, I, so I, I do, I do like that, that approach.

00:21:38.310 --> 00:21:41.661
And, um, there's something that I wanted to bring up.

00:21:42.520 --> 00:21:50.540
That you went into, I think, after humanistic psychology is something called conscious dance.

00:21:50.760 --> 00:21:51.230
Yes.

00:21:51.711 --> 00:22:01.711
And, um, I, I love dance because that is you connecting with your body and that's more of like inner work and functionality.

00:22:01.800 --> 00:22:15.931
There's a lot of health oriented with that, but there's something very interesting about, um, your brief description of conscious dance, but I want to, I'm curious, like, what, how, how did that happen?

00:22:15.961 --> 00:22:18.330
Did you come across somebody?

00:22:18.590 --> 00:22:20.161
Was it a curiosity?

00:22:20.500 --> 00:22:22.961
And I want to know what that is all about.

00:22:23.431 --> 00:22:24.221
Okay, great.

00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.931
So, have you heard of a lady called Gabrielle Roth?

00:22:27.901 --> 00:22:28.320
No.

00:22:28.530 --> 00:22:28.931
No.

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:30.891
Or have you heard of Five Rhythms Dance?

00:22:33.461 --> 00:22:37.121
I wouldn't be surprised if I saw it and not knew what it was.

00:22:37.320 --> 00:22:38.270
Yes, exactly.

00:22:38.270 --> 00:22:49.290
So Gabrielle Roth started Five Rhythms Dance at a place called Esalem in California, which was a very, very forward thinking alternative place.

00:22:49.820 --> 00:22:59.030
And she started it because she, uh, she was a natural dancer.

00:23:00.175 --> 00:23:05.415
Tall and thin long black hair, which is just a beautiful, beautiful natural dancer.

00:23:06.155 --> 00:23:16.115
And she was asked to go and work with groups of people who had, who were suffering either from physical things or from psychological issues.

00:23:16.346 --> 00:23:23.816
And the idea that people thought if we can get these people into movement, that's going to help them with whatever they're trying to heal.

00:23:24.336 --> 00:23:28.066
Um, and she could just naturally get them moving.

00:23:28.955 --> 00:23:39.766
Just, she just got them moving and And going through a whole kind of wave of movement, which was very healing for them, very amazing for them.

00:23:40.276 --> 00:23:42.685
And she got very, very popular doing this.

00:23:42.685 --> 00:23:47.205
And she started doing this just with ordinary people and her groups were getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

00:23:47.685 --> 00:23:53.215
And eventually someone said to her, Gabrielle, you've got to train other teachers because you're going to be there, bro.

00:23:53.625 --> 00:23:55.226
And so you've got to break it down.

00:23:55.236 --> 00:23:58.236
You can't just go right and teach you the wave, right?

00:23:58.715 --> 00:24:03.286
So you broke it down to these five different rhythms of movement.

00:24:04.435 --> 00:24:07.855
Which are also kind of parallel to five different modes of being.

00:24:08.675 --> 00:24:14.635
So, uh, the first one is flowing, which is about being really receptive and going with the flow.

00:24:15.256 --> 00:24:22.135
And you can do that in your mindfulness, kind of, or you can do that with your body, going with the flow.

00:24:22.465 --> 00:24:25.925
The second one is staccato, which is about getting very clear.

00:24:26.695 --> 00:24:34.076
So that you can do that in movement, but you can also do it in your mind in terms of I'm making a decision now, this is going to happen.

00:24:34.076 --> 00:24:35.105
That's not going to happen.

00:24:35.276 --> 00:24:37.286
No more of that, more of this.

00:24:38.336 --> 00:24:40.036
The third one is called chaos.

00:24:40.256 --> 00:24:50.905
And that is the most creative one, because that's when you get flowing and staccato mingling together and fully letting go, which you've probably experienced that on the dance floor.

00:24:51.135 --> 00:24:55.506
When you completely let go with your body, you've no idea what it's going to do next.

00:24:55.506 --> 00:24:58.455
It's But you know, it's going to do what it wants to do.

00:25:00.086 --> 00:25:02.105
And you're absolutely free of restriction.

00:25:03.236 --> 00:25:12.516
And it's the same if someone's in a creative place where they're being highly creative, often it's a mess everywhere, someone else walking in would go, what are you doing?

00:25:12.516 --> 00:25:14.836
It's such a, but it's, it's really creative.

00:25:14.836 --> 00:25:20.006
They're right in that creative zone and that creates a kind of a peak moment.

00:25:20.016 --> 00:25:24.915
It's almost like that orgasmic peak moment, which you can get in the dance or when you're creating.

00:25:25.851 --> 00:25:29.891
And the one after that is like a kind of celebratory chilling down.

00:25:29.891 --> 00:25:33.330
It's called lyrical, playful, light, innocent.

00:25:33.901 --> 00:25:48.000
And then the last one stillness is where you're just reintegrating all of your experience of the dance or the creative process, whatever you've been doing, bringing it home, breathing in, grounding it down, and you finish the cycle.

00:25:49.080 --> 00:25:55.530
So something Gabrielle noticed was that a lot of people in their lives were missing out one or other of these rhythms.

00:25:56.236 --> 00:25:57.006
in their life.

00:25:57.915 --> 00:26:03.365
So if they came and danced these rhythms in a kind of a wave, it would help to rebalance them.

00:26:04.096 --> 00:26:14.056
And it also gives them an enormous sense of joy because it would give access, like you were saying, access to all of this energy that's in the body and in the spirit through the movement.

00:26:14.790 --> 00:26:16.421
It's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

00:26:16.901 --> 00:26:17.381
Anyway, how I

00:26:17.381 --> 00:26:21.500
came across it was on the master's degree, where I'm learning about humanistic psychology.

00:26:21.881 --> 00:26:28.171
I became friends with one of the tutors, a woman, and we used to sometimes go dancing together in the evenings.

00:26:28.351 --> 00:26:33.111
And one time she said, do you want to come with me to a five rhythms dance event?

00:26:33.191 --> 00:26:33.911
I went, yeah, great.

00:26:33.921 --> 00:26:34.951
She said, great.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:35.931
Six days long.

00:26:36.830 --> 00:26:38.030
Um, it's a camp.

00:26:38.361 --> 00:26:40.000
We're going to dance for six days straight.

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:40.601
You ready?

00:26:41.500 --> 00:26:42.740
I said, yeah, why not?

00:26:42.911 --> 00:26:43.171
Right.

00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:45.770
Actually we didn't dance the whole time we danced.

00:26:46.931 --> 00:26:50.191
all morning every day, all evening, every night.

00:26:51.060 --> 00:26:58.330
And in the afternoon we had a choice of, you know, body painting, yoga, meditation, et cetera.

00:26:58.931 --> 00:27:03.050
So we did a massive amount of dancing and I absolutely loved it.

00:27:04.060 --> 00:27:05.320
It was really good fun.

00:27:05.590 --> 00:27:12.750
And I subsequently, I then did a lot of five rhythms dance and eventually trained as a teacher and taught it for a while.

00:27:13.211 --> 00:27:18.840
And then probably because of my humanistic background, I then evolved my own version.

00:27:19.385 --> 00:27:25.486
Which is called being moving, seeing, which is, it doesn't have the structure of the five rhythms.

00:27:26.326 --> 00:27:27.276
It's unstructured.

00:27:27.276 --> 00:27:31.885
So the idea is you're just in whatever rhythm you're in at any point.

00:27:33.076 --> 00:27:37.375
And if that means you're in flow the whole time, that's, that's what, that's what you need to do.

00:27:37.986 --> 00:27:39.976
Or if you're going back and forth, that's what you need to do.

00:27:40.066 --> 00:27:46.726
And because of my training and my experience, I can hold a group that's going through all of those shifts.

00:27:48.060 --> 00:27:55.810
You know, and I can read the group, um, in such a way that I can have support and facilitate them through that journey.

00:27:56.651 --> 00:28:03.101
So the journey is meaningful with all sorts of mysterious things going on along the way.

00:28:04.361 --> 00:28:11.530
It's, uh, I like how you internalized it and then you made it yours.

00:28:12.270 --> 00:28:23.425
And, um, my, well, two parts, one, I, my background with dance is more along I'm not sure if you're familiar with breakdancing.

00:28:23.885 --> 00:28:24.286
Of course.

00:28:24.516 --> 00:28:26.155
With the acrobatic dance and all that.

00:28:26.205 --> 00:28:27.215
And it was You can do

00:28:27.215 --> 00:28:27.566
that.

00:28:27.786 --> 00:28:28.316
Yeah.

00:28:28.355 --> 00:28:30.286
Well, now I do my best.

00:28:31.296 --> 00:28:33.016
I've always been so impressed with that.

00:28:33.486 --> 00:28:38.395
It's, it's, it's Physically demanding, energetically demanding.

00:28:38.425 --> 00:28:45.635
I feel like getting back into it just because of it forcing you to be that, that fit, but I'm

00:28:45.655 --> 00:28:46.105
strong.

00:28:46.115 --> 00:28:46.986
You have to be strong.

00:28:47.105 --> 00:28:47.526
Oh, yeah.

00:28:47.526 --> 00:28:49.195
You have to be upside down half the time.

00:28:49.816 --> 00:28:50.895
Um, yeah.

00:28:50.955 --> 00:28:51.165
Yeah.

00:28:51.195 --> 00:28:51.486
When I jump

00:28:51.486 --> 00:28:52.559
into a

00:28:52.559 --> 00:29:07.885
handstand, why don't you, um, But I'm like internalizing what you're saying and I'm having flashbacks of my progress learning how to break this and it's all, it's, there's a lot of flexibility.

00:29:07.885 --> 00:29:12.796
You're manipulating, um, your, your weights, your gravity, your center of gravity.

00:29:13.046 --> 00:29:19.375
And I was just very stiff and that just didn't align, but I really wanted to learn.

00:29:19.486 --> 00:29:22.486
And it was just that progress of just learning the basics.

00:29:22.935 --> 00:29:23.435
And.

00:29:23.776 --> 00:29:25.935
Experience it, experiencing it.

00:29:26.006 --> 00:29:36.316
And then part of it is, um, sometimes you can do a routine that you memorize from other people, and then you create a routine.

00:29:36.346 --> 00:29:45.165
And then that other part where I remember you were talking about the five different steps before, where it's freestyle and it's just, you flow with it.

00:29:45.195 --> 00:29:59.326
And, and in the progress of everything that we do, that's, I see that, that The flow of life where you're, you're going through life and you're learning about the world around you, you're adapting to it, and then you're like, Hmm, I don't like this.

00:29:59.326 --> 00:29:59.996
I like that.

00:29:59.996 --> 00:30:01.596
So you're making those decisions.

00:30:02.026 --> 00:30:02.705
And then.

00:30:03.486 --> 00:30:11.736
It, you're, you're problem aware, and now you're self aware and then you're consciously aware of the things and you trust yourself enough.

00:30:11.736 --> 00:31:07.800
And I feel like very few people get to the place where they trust themselves enough to make those decisions that are really important or you're unconsciously I see that as, as that dance where I would get to a point where you would just freestyle and you know, um, As far as dance moves, how do I'm not gonna go too hard now because I injured myself or I'm gonna go a little bit more Aggressive because I want to do better than that person or whatever and you have the like this Really cool dynamic going on so I really appreciated um you sharing that I do have a question though When you do your groups when you now do it your way it seems like you're allowing people to like you said be where they're at now and Allowing their I guess subconscious their body to I guess identify where they're at and express that.

00:31:08.651 --> 00:31:09.570
Is that what you're doing?

00:31:09.580 --> 00:31:13.711
And then the second part is if you're doing it in a group, everybody's coming from different places.

00:31:13.711 --> 00:31:15.721
So is there a different rhythm?

00:31:15.931 --> 00:31:18.611
Does it just look like chaos?

00:31:18.641 --> 00:31:20.211
Like, like, what does that look like?

00:31:22.131 --> 00:31:29.911
This is why you have to train properly before you do this kind of work, because otherwise you could just create a sort of sorry mess that no one gets anything out of it.

00:31:30.520 --> 00:31:49.026
Um, something I learned through the humanistic psychology work is that when somebody really opens up to what they're actually experiencing in the present moment fully, fully receives it and lets it in.

00:31:50.236 --> 00:31:54.665
It always, always, always transforms into something else.

00:31:56.740 --> 00:31:58.070
So the key is opening up.

00:31:58.631 --> 00:31:59.381
It's a total.

00:31:59.401 --> 00:31:59.621
Yeah.

00:31:59.681 --> 00:32:04.141
It's a bit like when you digest something, it doesn't just go partway through your body.

00:32:04.171 --> 00:32:05.580
It goes all the way through.

00:32:06.351 --> 00:32:07.931
And then a bit later you're hungry again.

00:32:08.020 --> 00:32:09.490
You know, it's a natural process.

00:32:09.490 --> 00:32:15.641
And one of the things with the dance is the dance helps us to process our experience.

00:32:16.971 --> 00:32:23.971
And when we get stuck in life, getting stuck in life is, is almost the same thing as saying we're not allowing our experience.

00:32:24.135 --> 00:32:32.215
We're, we're attaching to our experience and we're keeping it stuck and then it's not digested.

00:32:32.215 --> 00:32:36.346
We get, we get emotional indigestion or psychological indigestion.

00:32:36.996 --> 00:32:47.796
So when I'm running the, when I'm holding the groups, um, I always have a kind of a grounding point at the beginning, which creates a sense of oneness in the group.

00:32:47.965 --> 00:32:49.175
So we're all there together.

00:32:49.175 --> 00:32:52.925
We're, we've got some connection and I use a number of techniques for that.

00:32:52.935 --> 00:32:56.546
Like one technique is everybody has to book by a specific.

00:32:57.270 --> 00:33:00.121
point in time, two or three days before the event.

00:33:01.070 --> 00:33:03.441
It has, if they haven't booked, they're not coming in.

00:33:05.101 --> 00:33:05.221
So

00:33:05.221 --> 00:33:12.671
what that means is they're already more conscious when they arrive than they would have been if they just rolled out of bed and thought, right, I'll just show up.

00:33:14.701 --> 00:33:18.230
And they've got more respect for each other because they know everyone else has gone through that same thing.

00:33:18.260 --> 00:33:19.530
Everyone else has made that commitment.

00:33:19.540 --> 00:33:21.351
They've all shown up at the same time.

00:33:21.971 --> 00:33:25.990
And also once everyone's in, I lock the door of the building so no one else can get in.

00:33:26.221 --> 00:33:27.080
So you're late.

00:33:27.111 --> 00:33:27.611
That's it.

00:33:27.621 --> 00:33:32.520
And you're just got a cup to the door and you're just trying to dance by yourself outside.

00:33:32.721 --> 00:33:33.361
get to come in.

00:33:33.361 --> 00:33:33.500
And

00:33:34.171 --> 00:33:37.401
you know, I've had a couple of people show up late and not get in.

00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:42.641
And I've met up with them later at another situation and they told me that that changed their life.

00:33:43.165 --> 00:33:43.955
Wow.

00:33:44.215 --> 00:33:52.266
Because they suddenly realized that them showing up matters and that the way they show up matters.

00:33:53.796 --> 00:33:55.615
And it makes it, it was a shock to them.

00:33:55.615 --> 00:33:56.786
They went, Oh my God.

00:33:57.556 --> 00:33:59.806
And all the people inside, they know they're protected.

00:33:59.935 --> 00:34:02.036
No one else is going to come in and mess up the energy.

00:34:02.425 --> 00:34:06.375
So even those things, before we even begin, start to set the scene.

00:34:07.526 --> 00:34:15.465
And then at the beginning, I have everyone lie down and I read out a sacred reading, like, um, a Sufi poem or something like that.

00:34:16.501 --> 00:34:24.690
And I say to everybody, stay on the floor until your body wants to move, don't start moving until your body starts to move of its own accord.

00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:54.840
So they're all lying on the floor with their eyes closed and the music comes on and you see people start, some people just stay there a long time, some people just start and things just start to shift a little bit and then coming up a little bit and then maybe not, maybe slithering along, coming up a bit and some people are springing up but they're just letting the energy do the work which That on its own is incredibly healing because so many people in life are constantly got to keep going.

00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:55.820
I've got to push myself.

00:34:55.820 --> 00:34:58.150
I've got to get through this in this space.

00:34:58.701 --> 00:35:00.001
No, they don't have to do that.

00:35:00.731 --> 00:35:01.101
And

00:35:01.201 --> 00:35:03.811
then they just allow it to follow and follow.

00:35:03.811 --> 00:35:09.771
And then sometimes it looks like you've got a room full of individual people who are all doing something completely different.

00:35:10.871 --> 00:35:14.351
And sometimes everybody's in it together doing something very similar.

00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:15.960
It's all freestyle.

00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:19.300
And sometimes people are very much inward.

00:35:19.815 --> 00:35:21.715
And sometimes people are dancing with each other.

00:35:23.476 --> 00:35:29.365
And sometimes people are on the floor, in a ball with somebody else, turning over.

00:35:29.726 --> 00:35:30.115
We call that contact.

00:35:30.115 --> 00:35:37.175
You know, like, kind of, it's almost like they're dancing physically with each other on the floor.

00:35:37.206 --> 00:35:39.166
Rolling over each other and holding hands and stuff.

00:35:39.166 --> 00:35:39.445
That's

00:35:39.465 --> 00:35:39.655
great.

00:35:40.545 --> 00:35:44.646
And then kind of moving, no talking, no alcohol, nothing.

00:35:45.771 --> 00:35:47.521
And people are like, you up for this?

00:35:47.521 --> 00:35:47.760
Yeah.

00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:51.130
You know, the feeling of, okay, fine.

00:35:51.161 --> 00:35:52.440
And then they move on.

00:35:53.090 --> 00:36:01.291
And, and then, and then at the end, I just do a little guided meditation for people, which is always inspired by what I witnessed in the dance.

00:36:02.530 --> 00:36:06.351
And then we all get together in little circle and, you know, Anyone want to share anything?

00:36:06.670 --> 00:36:11.001
So, and then people get a lot from each other's sharing as well.

00:36:11.510 --> 00:36:15.650
Someone says, I had this journey, I experienced this, I felt this, and someone else, yeah, do you know what?

00:36:15.721 --> 00:36:17.260
I had this and da, da, da, da, da, da.

00:36:18.201 --> 00:36:21.960
So it's just a beautiful, um, very organic.

00:36:22.365 --> 00:36:27.505
But I would not be able to do that if it wasn't for all the learnings I've done in my life.

00:36:28.036 --> 00:36:28.505
Yeah.

00:36:28.585 --> 00:36:32.106
And it's that, that, that path, that journey that fuels that.

00:36:32.806 --> 00:36:38.865
And I'm very visual, so I'm having a blast watching what you're describing.

00:36:38.865 --> 00:36:40.545
And you're such a good storyteller.

00:36:41.016 --> 00:36:53.880
And, um, You know, I have an idea of like what color the doors are and then I'm looking at like all these strangers and I'm also having flashbacks of like in the U.

00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:54.081
S.

00:36:54.081 --> 00:36:59.431
you have like prom and then you have you go out to the club if you're with them.

00:36:59.581 --> 00:37:10.751
That type of night owl person and you have people that are at the center of the stage is going wild and as you go away from the stage, um, it's less and less movement.

00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:13.320
And then you have the wall flowers that are standing, right?

00:37:13.420 --> 00:37:17.661
And you see the different phases of where people are naturally in one room.

00:37:18.181 --> 00:37:18.530
Yeah.

00:37:18.820 --> 00:37:19.311
Right.

00:37:19.701 --> 00:37:22.056
And then, um, It's very cool.

00:37:22.126 --> 00:37:25.326
It's very, I really like how everybody's a stranger.

00:37:26.615 --> 00:37:30.085
And then they're just dancing with each other and they're just kind of like moving.

00:37:30.085 --> 00:37:38.101
It reminds me of those movies where uh, someone's like Or not even like the movies, what do you call it?

00:37:38.101 --> 00:37:52.351
It's like flash dance or there's one guy where he's like at a picnic and there's music playing and everybody's just sitting and watching the music or the band, you know, there doesn't seem like they came to there to dance, but he's just going wild.

00:37:52.391 --> 00:37:55.150
Like, he's just like, arms in the air, like nuts.

00:37:55.161 --> 00:37:57.971
And people are just like, what's what over.

00:37:58.655 --> 00:38:03.346
A couple of minutes goes by time goes by and you have like another person dancing with him.

00:38:03.346 --> 00:38:07.315
Just going like, just wailing their arms and just like, whatever, whatever, let's go.

00:38:07.315 --> 00:38:10.715
And then you have another person and then it's just like, it grows and grows and grows.

00:38:11.286 --> 00:38:14.735
And, um, it reminded me of that.

00:38:14.885 --> 00:38:16.206
I don't know if you've ever seen that.

00:38:16.735 --> 00:38:19.675
I don't remember, but it sounds like the sort of scene I would have seen.

00:38:20.356 --> 00:38:24.135
Did you ever see a film called Men Who Stare at Goats with George Clooney?

00:38:24.445 --> 00:38:25.585
I need to see that.

00:38:25.726 --> 00:38:27.476
I've been told to watch it.

00:38:27.545 --> 00:38:31.936
I think I've, I'm aware of it, but go ahead.

00:38:32.016 --> 00:38:33.246
I'm going to have to watch it now.

00:38:33.525 --> 00:38:46.146
The idea is that the American army, the US army in this movie has decided to develop a kind of psychic division who can actually cause things to happen with their mind.

00:38:46.971 --> 00:38:55.960
And so all these guys are trying to, um, learn how to stare at a goat and make the goat fall unconscious.

00:38:56.081 --> 00:38:57.460
Just with their mind.

00:38:57.561 --> 00:38:57.971
Okay.

00:38:58.271 --> 00:38:59.150
It's a comedy.

00:38:59.731 --> 00:38:59.911
Okay.

00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:02.221
George Clooney is one of these guys.

00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:07.900
And suddenly they get a new, um, CEO comes in and I think it's Jeff Bridges.

00:39:08.606 --> 00:39:09.246
Okay.

00:39:09.496 --> 00:39:14.175
And they do the, who I love, and they're all lined up and he does the usual thing and walking up and down.

00:39:14.396 --> 00:39:18.876
You're a sorry lot of pathetic, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, he does all this.

00:39:18.876 --> 00:39:20.496
Then he suddenly goes, then he stops and he goes.

00:39:21.431 --> 00:39:22.240
Let's dance.

00:39:23.101 --> 00:39:30.360
And suddenly there's music on and they're all dancing and they're all getting into a whole trippy kind of dance, but George Clooney can't let go.

00:39:30.621 --> 00:39:31.900
He's really self conscious,

00:39:32.391 --> 00:39:32.791
right?

00:39:33.001 --> 00:39:37.880
Jeff Richards go up to him and says, let go.

00:39:38.081 --> 00:39:39.121
That's an order.

00:39:40.190 --> 00:39:41.771
And George goes, Oh, okay.

00:39:41.771 --> 00:39:46.181
And he lets go and gets into this incredible dance.

00:39:46.181 --> 00:39:47.710
And it's a fantastic scene.

00:39:47.710 --> 00:39:52.030
You know, it's that kind of tip over from really self conscious hanging on.

00:39:52.411 --> 00:39:53.550
How can I survive this?

00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:58.760
Which a lot of us experience that in our lives, at least some of the time, and then just let go.

00:39:59.061 --> 00:39:59.931
That's an order.

00:40:01.061 --> 00:40:01.690
That's an order.

00:40:01.911 --> 00:40:03.431
Completely lets it go.

00:40:03.831 --> 00:40:07.041
And he's wildly, you know, moving around the room.

00:40:07.791 --> 00:40:09.501
It's a beautiful, beautiful scene.

00:40:10.251 --> 00:40:10.940
You know what?

00:40:12.521 --> 00:40:28.951
In a past life, I was toying with the idea of being a DJ and my mind was like, that would be so cool if I recorded Jeff Bridges Bridges His voice saying, Hey! Let go.

00:40:29.351 --> 00:40:29.990
That's an order.

00:40:30.001 --> 00:40:30.740
And then the beat drops.

00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:31.681
Boom, boom, boom.

00:40:34.521 --> 00:40:53.766
But I think I think only a certain generation or like only only certain people that saw that movie would get it But yeah, it's universal let go and then you know, boom, boom, boom, which is yeah That's you know, what people don't give dancing that much credit where it's it's not It's needed, right?

00:40:53.925 --> 00:41:00.056
Where, like, what if you, oh, like, okay, another movie, um, Footloose.

00:41:00.246 --> 00:41:01.525
Yeah, I thought you were going to say that.

00:41:01.675 --> 00:41:05.505
Yes, similar stuff, right?

00:41:05.505 --> 00:41:11.056
Where just people are just very stiff, but you, you loosen up and you start to be more creative.

00:41:11.065 --> 00:41:13.365
You're happy, you're excited about life.

00:41:13.996 --> 00:41:18.425
Um, well, so moving forward, there's another thing.

00:41:18.496 --> 00:41:31.266
I, I know that we're, we're running low on time right now, so But I wanted to get into Palawa, because I think, and I, I'm probably butchering the pronunciation, but I think that was the next thing that you got into.

00:41:31.545 --> 00:41:34.306
And I want to give it some space because it sounds interesting.

00:41:34.416 --> 00:41:36.295
Could you tell us a little bit about that?

00:41:37.016 --> 00:41:37.416
Yeah.

00:41:37.416 --> 00:41:44.396
So, um, a very good friend of mine, who's Australian, went back to Australia and came back 15 years later.

00:41:45.186 --> 00:41:49.226
And another mutual friend, I was going to go down for lunch.

00:41:49.235 --> 00:41:51.275
She said, great, Julie's back from Australia.

00:41:51.286 --> 00:41:52.396
Let's have lunch together.

00:41:53.521 --> 00:42:00.751
And I've, I've picked up something in her tone, I thought, I think she's a bit of an operator, she's always setting things up, right?

00:42:00.791 --> 00:42:01.650
Always in a good way.

00:42:01.981 --> 00:42:07.010
If we're having lunch, I say, Julie, what have you been doing for the last 15 years?

00:42:07.701 --> 00:42:08.110
Right?

00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:08.561
Yeah.

00:42:08.610 --> 00:42:11.050
She goes, um, you know, what have you been doing in Australia?

00:42:11.601 --> 00:42:12.840
Pellewa, she says.

00:42:13.311 --> 00:42:14.340
It's a great, what's that?

00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:18.001
She said, Pellewa means radical shift in consciousness.

00:42:18.701 --> 00:42:19.320
Ooh.

00:42:19.900 --> 00:42:25.371
And I went, I looked at the other woman and the other woman looked at me and I said, this is a setup.

00:42:25.391 --> 00:42:26.701
And she went, do you want to do it?

00:42:26.701 --> 00:42:27.320
I said, yeah.

00:42:27.690 --> 00:42:30.331
So we said to Julie, how'd you do it?

00:42:30.340 --> 00:42:31.570
She said, it's a two day workshop.

00:42:33.371 --> 00:42:33.710
Okay.

00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:35.721
Will you do the workshop just for us too?

00:42:35.791 --> 00:42:36.070
Yeah.

00:42:37.061 --> 00:42:37.891
Will you do it next week?

00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:38.210
Yeah.

00:42:39.431 --> 00:42:43.501
So the following week I was on this workshop that I hadn't only heard about seven days before,

00:42:44.090 --> 00:42:44.201
but

00:42:44.201 --> 00:42:47.141
it was the word radical shift in consciousness.

00:42:47.181 --> 00:42:48.951
I thought, how could I not do that?

00:42:50.905 --> 00:42:55.266
So, I've now trained as a teacher myself, so I now run the workshop.

00:42:56.806 --> 00:43:00.436
And Pellewa is an energy.

00:43:00.766 --> 00:43:02.106
It comes direct from source.

00:43:02.155 --> 00:43:04.815
It's a very fine energy.

00:43:05.635 --> 00:43:12.436
And it interacts with the consciousness of the recipient directly.

00:43:12.985 --> 00:43:15.916
So if I'm having a Pellewa treatment.

00:43:16.976 --> 00:43:22.356
I, I just lie down and the practitioner calls in the Pellewa energy.

00:43:22.596 --> 00:43:24.106
It's, there's no contact.

00:43:24.115 --> 00:43:29.635
It's a non hands off treatment and it can be done distant or in person.

00:43:29.846 --> 00:43:30.195
Okay.

00:43:30.195 --> 00:43:39.025
So I could be lying on my bed in my house, the practitioner, wherever they are, calls in the Pellewa and they hold that sacred space for the 60 minutes.

00:43:40.206 --> 00:43:48.606
The Pellewa comes directly to me and my consciousness makes an agreement with the Pellewa as to what my consciousness needs.

00:43:49.621 --> 00:43:52.451
To make the shift I need to make right now.

00:43:53.931 --> 00:44:00.688
And this is your consciousness that you're, your awareness, consciousness, like, you know, I'm not aware

00:44:00.688 --> 00:44:13.590
because my consciousness is on so many different levels, so the majority of my consciousness is at, is below my conscious awareness, like, like the iceberg thing.

00:44:14.130 --> 00:44:23.300
So only, only a small, only a, like a relatively small section of my of my consciousness is in my awake awareness.

00:44:24.101 --> 00:44:24.331
Okay.

00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:26.351
And the rest of it is below my conscious level.

00:44:26.751 --> 00:44:27.820
This is true for everybody.

00:44:28.871 --> 00:44:43.280
So when the Pellewa does the, like, does the deal with my consciousness, it's almost like a sort of integration of all of my consciousness, which knows best on my behalf, knows better than my ego knows.

00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:46.960
My ego thinks it knows what's best for me, but it doesn't.

00:44:48.130 --> 00:44:49.210
My consciousness does.

00:44:50.481 --> 00:44:54.331
But I may not always be aware of that.

00:44:54.411 --> 00:44:57.141
So this is all happening at subconscious level.

00:44:57.641 --> 00:45:07.340
And Pellewa then delivers whatever activation is required to activate me internally to then be able to make the change I need to make.

00:45:09.710 --> 00:45:14.541
So I then come out at the end of the 60 minutes and something has fundamentally changed.

00:45:15.226 --> 00:45:22.826
within me, and I might have a very clear memory of what's happened in the treatment.

00:45:23.226 --> 00:45:28.516
I may have clear thoughts, emotions, messages, visuals.

00:45:29.456 --> 00:45:42.275
Or I may have just fallen asleep, or I may have just gone off on a weird kind of trippy thing where I, I just have, it's just like a blur, or I might wake up and think, Oh my God, I've no idea what happened, but I'm exhausted.

00:45:42.275 --> 00:45:46.735
I can feel like there's a massive workout going on inside.

00:45:47.206 --> 00:45:52.106
Or I might wake up and think, Oh, I'm so refreshed.

00:45:52.195 --> 00:45:53.706
I'm so relaxed.

00:45:54.286 --> 00:45:58.655
Or I might come back and go, Oh my God, I've got so much energy, right?

00:45:59.175 --> 00:46:00.405
I'm going to record a podcast.

00:46:00.465 --> 00:46:01.476
I'm going to write this.

00:46:01.476 --> 00:46:10.835
I'm going to clean the kitchen, you know, I'm going to call that person because each moment in our lives, the next step for us.

00:46:11.411 --> 00:46:13.621
is unique in that moment.

00:46:14.851 --> 00:46:19.210
So when I run the workshop, I've got people coming along who want to learn how to facilitate that.

00:46:19.210 --> 00:46:21.820
So you can imagine these weekends are really amazing.

00:46:23.871 --> 00:46:24.210
Wow.

00:46:24.510 --> 00:46:27.630
And I'm like thinking, I'm like, is so Pellewa is.

00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:30.860
a source energy.

00:46:31.150 --> 00:46:36.360
So it's almost like it has its own personality or like it's an ancient entity type of thing.

00:46:36.510 --> 00:46:41.021
And it's going in and it's doing its work because it's been working with people for a long time.

00:46:41.021 --> 00:46:43.661
That's the, that's the vibe I'm getting.

00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:44.601
Yes.

00:46:44.621 --> 00:46:45.971
I wouldn't say entity.

00:46:46.030 --> 00:46:51.030
I think you could say a power, an energy.

00:46:51.061 --> 00:46:55.570
It, it, it doesn't have a personality or a, an ego or anything like that.

00:46:56.505 --> 00:47:03.434
Okay, so it's interesting, like, like a, like a power, like a frequency, like a But

00:47:03.434 --> 00:47:09.666
it has an intelligence, but it's not an intelligence that we as humans could really conceive of.

00:47:10.530 --> 00:47:11.291
Interesting.

00:47:11.570 --> 00:47:11.990
Wow.

00:47:12.021 --> 00:47:18.931
That's, that sounds like another very deep, deep path to understand.

00:47:19.340 --> 00:47:30.771
And um, it's almost like, uh, for some, based off of what you're saying, when you come out of it for some, it's almost like a psychedelic trip because of, uh, releasing energies.

00:47:32.590 --> 00:47:33.840
Things coming into awareness.

00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:46.271
Because, you know, like when we have a dream, sometimes the dream is incredibly colorful and exciting and interesting because we've got so much capacity within us for creative visualization and imagination.

00:47:46.831 --> 00:47:51.530
And also for each person, each experience will be different depending on where they're at.

00:47:52.541 --> 00:47:56.451
Wow, lots of really cool stuff you've been doing.

00:47:56.911 --> 00:47:59.590
I know there's so much cool stuff in the world, honestly.

00:48:01.110 --> 00:48:15.001
And that's like, that's, that's a great part about this capacity to be and remain curious because you can be filled with stories, filled with, Experiences and I love how you're like, can, can we just, can we do this next week?

00:48:15.041 --> 00:48:17.141
Can you, can you, can you show us let let's go?

00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:19.251
Like, I don't care if this is a setup.

00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:20.181
Let's just, let's go.

00:48:20.231 --> 00:48:20.871
Let's do this.

00:48:22.510 --> 00:48:23.371
I love it.

00:48:23.670 --> 00:48:24.990
It was really nice actually doing it.

00:48:24.990 --> 00:48:28.130
The three of us, cause we all knew each other really, really well and loved each other.

00:48:28.690 --> 00:48:30.431
So it was just a lovely experience.

00:48:30.431 --> 00:48:31.161
That's

00:48:31.161 --> 00:48:31.731
so cool.

00:48:33.371 --> 00:48:33.570
Wow.

00:48:33.601 --> 00:48:34.490
I've got one coming up.

00:48:34.510 --> 00:48:39.181
I've got a workshop coming up and, um, two of the people coming are a mother and daughter.

00:48:40.460 --> 00:48:40.911
Mm.

00:48:41.010 --> 00:48:41.061
We'll do

00:48:41.141 --> 00:48:41.880
it together.

00:48:42.630 --> 00:48:42.911
Oh, yeah.

00:48:42.911 --> 00:48:46.800
That's going to totally, uh, solidify that relationship.

00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:54.481
I mean, the, the parent and the, uh, the child connecting and seeing each other.

00:48:54.481 --> 00:48:56.300
The child is an adult, of course, but.

00:48:56.331 --> 00:48:56.800
Yeah.

00:48:56.971 --> 00:48:59.451
You know, so they'll be able to give each other treatments.

00:49:01.996 --> 00:49:04.735
It'll just be amazing.

00:49:05.096 --> 00:49:09.135
We're, we're, we're moving forward into a new world for sure.

00:49:09.155 --> 00:49:15.686
And I wanted to end with that, where with all that you've learned and that you're experiencing, right?

00:49:15.735 --> 00:49:25.411
And I feel like you also have, uh, A wide range of people that you work with from successful entrepreneurs to, um, business owners.

00:49:25.891 --> 00:49:32.190
And do you, I'm actually curious, the type of people that you work with, is it a wide range of people?

00:49:32.221 --> 00:49:36.951
And, uh, cause I can only imagine only so many people would be open to this.

00:49:38.530 --> 00:49:41.581
Like, I wonder like how the, how does that dynamic work for you?

00:49:42.295 --> 00:49:51.596
Yeah, I'd say, um, the way I describe it is I work, tend, the people who tend to be attracted to work with me are people who are, who are on the expansive path.

00:49:52.476 --> 00:49:54.036
So they've already made that choice.

00:49:54.275 --> 00:49:55.626
They're already on that path.

00:49:56.545 --> 00:49:59.795
And when we're on that path, we need all sorts of different kinds of nourishment.

00:50:00.215 --> 00:50:00.646
You

00:50:00.646 --> 00:50:02.346
mentioned the hero's journey earlier on.

00:50:02.376 --> 00:50:02.606
Yeah.

00:50:04.311 --> 00:50:29.121
In the hero's journey, there's a point where the, the, the hero is kind of going through a forest and they've got to get to the dragon on the other side, and they're going to be asked a question, and they've got to give the right answer, and they've got to hand them something, and they don't know what to In the middle of the forest, they meet a gnome who peers out of nowhere and goes, right, the question they're going to ask is this, and the answer you give is this, and here's the thing you need to give them, right?

00:50:29.751 --> 00:50:37.001
And they give them, give, helps the hero get through the forest and get to the, you know, hero gets to the dragon, does what they need to do.

00:50:37.251 --> 00:50:41.050
They come through there, the hero, and everybody goes, hero, we love you.

00:50:41.050 --> 00:50:41.800
Fantastic.

00:50:41.800 --> 00:50:42.101
Right.

00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:43.400
They don't go gnome.

00:50:44.070 --> 00:50:45.081
You're amazing.

00:50:46.061 --> 00:50:49.231
The gnome was somebody along the way who gave them a helping hand.

00:50:49.231 --> 00:50:49.922
I'm

00:50:49.922 --> 00:50:50.614
the

00:50:50.614 --> 00:50:51.306
gnome.

00:50:52.365 --> 00:51:02.425
I give someone a helping hand on their path, you know, and they go, right, I, people, as people go along their path, they go, right, I need another kind of help here or the kind of help there.

00:51:03.525 --> 00:51:17.246
And this is why I invite people to listen to my podcast, which I'm jumping the gun by saying that because when they do that, they will get a sense of if my energy, my vibration feels like it resonates.

00:51:17.846 --> 00:51:22.806
With where they are and where they want to go next, and people know that intuitively.

00:51:23.565 --> 00:51:29.945
So when people contact me, they normally say, I'm contacting you, I'm not really sure why.

00:51:30.695 --> 00:51:33.635
I've just got this feeling that it might be a good thing.

00:51:34.896 --> 00:51:38.175
And sometimes it's one conversation and sometimes we work together for 30 years.

00:51:38.715 --> 00:51:39.315
You just never know.

00:51:40.516 --> 00:51:43.516
So people self select.

00:51:44.306 --> 00:51:46.715
And some, as you say, some are very wealthy, some are not.

00:51:47.451 --> 00:51:54.550
Some are men, some are women, they're all adults because there are other people who specialize more of, you know, more with younger people.

00:51:55.360 --> 00:52:11.751
Um, but they are people who've chosen to be on the expansive path and who've decided that they are interested in getting help and who've got the sort of sense of self-worth that they are not ashamed about looking for some help.

00:52:12.291 --> 00:52:12.380
Mm-Hmm.

00:52:12.621 --> 00:52:12.710
Yes.

00:52:13.331 --> 00:52:15.096
You know, so they dealt with that issue.

00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:18.920
So they're ready to say, I wanna ask for some help.

00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:19.791
This is what I want.

00:52:21.141 --> 00:52:25.920
I like how you put that where you're like, this is where I fit on your hero's journey.

00:52:26.570 --> 00:52:31.971
And um, so going into your podcast, what is the name of your podcast?

00:52:31.971 --> 00:52:38.471
And I would say, what's the easiest or like what platforms do you usually tend to go to?

00:52:39.021 --> 00:52:39.371
Okay.

00:52:39.371 --> 00:52:42.081
So it's called Truth and Transcendence.

00:52:43.221 --> 00:52:47.030
And the and is the squirrelly ampersand.

00:52:47.030 --> 00:52:56.271
Uh, if people like to listen to podcasts on a browser, the easiest way is just to go to my website, beingspace.

00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:59.481
world, and you just find podcast in the menu.

00:53:01.221 --> 00:53:02.880
So it's right on there.

00:53:03.641 --> 00:53:09.201
Um, if you have a favorite podcast app, it'll be on your favorite podcast app.

00:53:09.201 --> 00:53:09.900
It's on all of them.

00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:13.331
So you can just find it.

00:53:13.471 --> 00:53:14.581
Truth and transcendence.

00:53:15.811 --> 00:53:16.440
Nice.

00:53:16.510 --> 00:53:16.951
Yeah.

00:53:17.010 --> 00:53:23.210
And, and also, uh, I'll make that like easier to find for people on your, uh, on your page for sure.

00:53:23.541 --> 00:53:25.490
I like how you're doing a podcast as well.

00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:29.960
And um, it's, it's cool to connect with people.

00:53:29.960 --> 00:53:31.740
It's cool to have conversations.

00:53:32.141 --> 00:53:38.920
Um, I, I think, do you interview people or is it a mixture of you talking about what you want to talk about?

00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:39.490
I'm curious.

00:53:39.521 --> 00:53:41.201
It's, yeah, I kind of alternate.

00:53:41.615 --> 00:53:41.885
Okay.

00:53:41.896 --> 00:53:42.056
At

00:53:42.056 --> 00:53:46.215
the moment, I'm doing one episode a week, alternating between a guest episode and solo.

00:53:47.126 --> 00:53:54.545
Uh, but in the autumn, I'm going to start doing two a week, a solo and a guest episode each week.

00:53:55.715 --> 00:53:57.726
So that's going to be three a week or one you, one guest?

00:53:57.726 --> 00:53:58.175
Two a week.

00:53:58.811 --> 00:53:59.990
Two a week instead of one.

00:54:00.371 --> 00:54:01.141
Uh, okay, cool.

00:54:01.141 --> 00:54:01.440
Yeah.

00:54:01.471 --> 00:54:02.760
She's you're going for it.

00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:03.311
Let's go.

00:54:03.340 --> 00:54:03.880
I know.

00:54:03.940 --> 00:54:04.751
I never planned.

00:54:04.931 --> 00:54:06.530
Everyone said, you've got to do a podcast.

00:54:08.161 --> 00:54:09.101
You've got to do a podcast.

00:54:09.101 --> 00:54:09.960
You've got a great voice.

00:54:10.210 --> 00:54:10.800
Thank you.

00:54:10.831 --> 00:54:12.280
You do a podcast.

00:54:14.210 --> 00:54:15.380
You know what goes into this?

00:54:18.110 --> 00:54:18.840
That's awesome.

00:54:18.981 --> 00:54:20.201
Well, yeah, you have the voice for it.

00:54:20.201 --> 00:54:21.570
You have the personality for it.

00:54:21.570 --> 00:54:25.590
This it's storytelling, especially if you're doing a lot of solo episodes.

00:54:26.130 --> 00:54:29.460
Um, And I can totally like listen to you all day for sure.

00:54:29.460 --> 00:54:30.760
You have that type of voice.

00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:32.516
Yeah, no, no problem.

00:54:32.516 --> 00:54:39.440
Uh, it's been a pleasure chatting with you and getting a small glimpse of your world.

00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:40.860
So thank you for coming on.

00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:41.920
I really appreciate you.

00:54:42.420 --> 00:54:43.561
It's been such a pleasure.

00:54:43.561 --> 00:54:43.840
Thank you.
Catherine Llewellyn Profile Photo

Catherine Llewellyn

Founder of Being Space | Transformation Catalyst | Humanistic Psychologist | Writer | Podcaster | Intuitive Healer

Catherine's lifelong passion for human evolution and transformation began at age six, influenced by her bohemian upbringing and encounters with radical thought leaders. Her father, an alternative practitioner, taught her that the body heals itself and the spirit grows and expands, shaping her life's work.

After discovering Robert D’Aubigny’s Exegesis Programme, Catherine's career evolved from voice training to executive coaching and organizational change consulting. Joining Surrey University’s Human Potential Research Group refined her Humanistic approach, enhancing her facilitative style.

In 1998, Catherine achieved her Reiki Masters and discovered Gabrielle Roth’s 5Rhythms Dance movement meditation, becoming a certified teacher in 2010. Her unique Self-Assessment & Development Planning technique, developed from senior executive insights, ensured successful developmental programs.

By 2017, Catherine transitioned to private client work, integrating energy techniques and conscious dance. Embracing the Pellowah modality in 2018, she became a teacher in 2022, continuing to mentor and practice energy and movement techniques.

Living in rural Wales with her cats, Catherine remains dedicated to her work, finding joy in the harmony of her practices and the natural world.