#39 Can We Control Our Destiny? Are We Bio Robots?

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Free will has to have limits and boundaries.

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I mean, what are we pushing against?

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We're pushing against circumstances that structure reality.

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If there are no reality, they we'd be floating in space.

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There would be nothing to push or change.

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All right.

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Welcome to the New Age Human podcast.

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I'm your host, Jon Anastasio.

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And today we're talking with David Lawrence was the author of, are we really biochemical robots?

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Right?

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Are we spiritual beings?

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Are we just flesh?

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That's programmed.

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Um, so we discuss misconceptions around consciousness and free will, and at the very end stick around because we now insert quantum physics and that whole freewill debate all makes sense.

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So that's gonna be really cool.

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if you have any questions, you can email me at jon@newagehuman.com.

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And then join the telegram channel, where we discuss topics mentioned in the show, and more importantly sharing what topics are of most interest to you.

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So with that said, let's get to the show.

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Thanks for listening.

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Let's go.

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welcome to the show, my friend.

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How's it going?

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Thank you.

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Thanks for inviting me.

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Yeah, we had a, a, a couple minutes before this and we were chatting and, um, if you see cats in the background, if you're watching this if you see cats in the background they look just like my one cat.

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So, be entertained if you wanna watch the video.

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So let's get it to it.

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So you have a book, biochemical robots and, um, the conscious conversation around free will.

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that's an interesting topic because some people feel like and treat us like robots and we can't think ahead versus, you know what, you have all the choices in the world.

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So, what.

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Prompted you to start this book.

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What happened to you man?

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I picked up a book one day and it was by Sam Harris and it was called Free Will.

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And I picked it up because I liked his stuff and I liked him and I read all his books and so forth.

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But this one was like, whoa, this one doesn't work.

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You know?

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And I, I, I intuitively didn't agree with the conclusions, didn't understand all the arguments, and that led to a sort of a journey to this cannot be, where's he coming from?

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And this is a guy I think is smart and I respect and seems very sincere.

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But that was the, uh, the curve ball.

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And it prompted me to, to do some research to write a short article.

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And that article was 20, 40 pages, but it became 60 to 80 pages.

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But it became,

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That's not a short article, man.

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well, no longer, it may be the longest short article that anyone's ever written.

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And that's what prompted it.

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And then I got involved in the, the topic.

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I didn't realize at the time how important.

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The question is, it's just sort of an abstract question, but it's really the basis of everything we do and who we think we are.

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And if we don't have it, then we're completely victimless, I would say, victims to the forces in the universe utterly powerless.

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That's not a pretty picture, and so I said about to say, well, are the arguments for determinism really good?

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Are they sound?

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Are they persuasive?

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And well, so it's interesting because, um, it's, it's interesting to me that, and I'm sure this happens to a lot of people where you pick up a book and you're like, this is an interesting title.

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Let me just read it.

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And then you're like, wait a minute.

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What are you doing?

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Like actually, you know, I don't think it happens that often cuz you read a book and you judge by the cover and you're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn something from this.

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And you, you kind of weed it out in the library.

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Well, if you still go to the library, but you know, online or in Audible or whatever on Amazon.

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So it's interesting how you pick something up and you're like, let's see what's going on.

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And you're like, Nope, nope, that's it.

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I can't.

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I can't let this be, I have to write an article.

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Did you get any pushback?

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Like how, what was that like?

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I mean, did you, what was it like sharing that article?

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I'm, I'm curious.

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It never came out.

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It morphed into a

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Oh,

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I mean, it just, It was a cascade.

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Right.

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You know, straight journey right there.

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And, uh, with a lot of research to get there, with a lot of surprises and a lot of twists along the way.

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So tell us about a surprise.

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What was something that you did on your search?

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Because it's obvious that, like you said, you, you, you skewed more towards which side do you skew to towards free will or

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yes, towards free will, although I'm not, I think it's largely unresolved, but I'm certainly in that direction.

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Okay.

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So, and, and, and trying to analyze and argue free will.

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What was something surprising?

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Because for me, I, I've always been like, you know what?

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Free will all day.

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And randomly I would run into some people that are like, no your future is determined and you're just living that life.

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So, I mean, what, what, what surprised you?

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you, you know what you say to them.

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Here's what you say to them.

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I got an idea, suggestion.

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You say, well, okay, determinism maintains that all of everything that our thoughts, everything.

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We think, all of our actions, they're all determined.

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They're not within our control.

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They're caused by external forces.

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They're forced upon us, right?

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So I said that.

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So you're talking to that guy or gal and you say, So what you just said to me, then you were forced to say, and you were forced to believe not true by your own terms.

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You don't believe that determinism is true because you went out and investigated and determined it was true, no pun intended.

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You were forced to believe it was true.

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So there's no truth in there.

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So

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And then, then if the guy says, no, no, no, no.

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Was it a guy or, I can't remember what you said, but whoever it is, if they say, no, no, you don't understand, it is true.

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I can tell you why.

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A, B, C, D, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

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And then my suggestion is you say, well, okay.

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But then again, if determinism maintains that all of our thoughts are beyond our control and they're put in our head and forced upon us, and we have no choice and we can't think otherwise.

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Then you just gave me a whole bunch of thoughts that were put in your head that would bond or control and you believe them because you were caused to believe them, and you used all those thoughts to justify this other thought that was put in your head.

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That doesn't make any sense, but nothing among those were true because you were forced to to to believe them.

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So how am I supposed to believe anything you're saying at this point?

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Well, it, it, it when someone, in my opinion, when someone argues that there's no free will, then I immediately am thinking, well then, I see you as someone that allows themselves to be easily influenced.

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You don't question things and so therefore you go on with your day thinking that everything is laid out for you and you don't have that rebel personality.

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And that's probably why I rarely run into somebody that thinks that way.

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Do you, like, for example, like where do you find somebody that believes in well, that does not believe in free will?

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Like how, how do you see that life playing out?

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Generally most scientists come from a materialist background

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True.

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and you know, believe the fundamental basis of the universe's material, physical, and that they're trained, I mean, sciences.

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Putting causal chains or links together, let's say between events and, and using those to predict things,

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mm.

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links, similar links.

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So I think the scientific viewpoint is very amenable to that point of view, and a lot of it culturally comes from there.

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Do you feel like someone would have to be religious to believe in a free will?

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It's interesting.

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I, I don't, I don't, it's interesting cuz I don't, you can believe in free will regardless of religion.

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And vice versa in my circulating and talking to people, I have found generally, and this is not statistical enough to really be.

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Super meaningful, but I found that the, those who are religious, whether it's sort of a new age, spirituality or alternative non-denominational spirit or a traditional faith, are far more intuitively aligned with free will and than those not of faith.

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And in, in a sense that makes sense because you have science.

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Causation, lack of free will and religion, spirituality, consciousness, purpose, and so forth.

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Mm.

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And.

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went into it with a misapprehension about that.

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I thought it would be the reverse.

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Well, let's say I thought that, that, that it would be the reverse for whatever reasons having to do with, if there's an almighty power, then you're subject to that almighty power.

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And what I wasn't taking into consideration is under most religions that Almighty power gave us free will.

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For various reasons.

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So that's what I've found.

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No scientific poll.

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But I think I, I think that's in general, I don't know that that's a big picture pattern, it's just what I've found.

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Right, right.

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I will say that the only, the only I mean I say in the book, I mean, new media is just filled with people who are talking about determinism.

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People like Sam Harris, people like all of.

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Renowned physicists who give lectures and appear, the only one I know of, who, who, who has come out of that, of a caliber new media personal's come out for free will, has a spiritual religious bent.

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Again, not a scientific, statistical conclusion, but I do think there's some sort of a pattern that's appearing to me.

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Mm.

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So in

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But you don't have to.

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I mean, you don't have to be one way or the other.

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Yeah, of course.

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I mean, everybody has their free will to have their belief structure, ironically.

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That's the other thing you might say to your, your friend who comes up to you.

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You might say, why are you telling me?

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Are you trying to persuade me that that's true?

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The termin is mist true?

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Well, how can you persuade anybody, if anything, if everything is predetermined?

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hmm.

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And the point being that no, there is no determinant.

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Nobody is a determinist.

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There are people who have a mental scheme in their head about that's how reality works.

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As they then decide the next thing they're gonna do and the next thing they're gonna do, and the next thing they're gonna do, and they affirm the, the, their free will every time they try and persuade somebody and change the course of the universe, which is not possible.

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If, if they don't have, or if the world is determined.

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So I have a whole chapter on how determinants can't be determinists.

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They can't act like it, they can't go about their lives without every moment affirming that they have free will.

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That should be

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Uh, among, among some other, or, and I give some examples of, of things that determinants say, which you could only say if there were free will in the world.

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you give us an example?

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Oh.

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I could look one up.

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Sure there's a I don't need to look one up.

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A very famous evolutionary biologist has terrific lectures on genes and, you know, evolution and so forth says the following.

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It's one of the quotes in the book.

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Everything we think is determined by the neural cascades in our brain.

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And show me a neuron that can just fire on its own without something prior, some prior neural activity.

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And then we can talk about free will.

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Okay.

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Then, I don't know, a minute or two later, someone asks him a question and he says, oh, now that doesn't mean that we should be letting criminals run around on the streets.

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Do harm to people.

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We have to protect society from them.

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Think of it as a a, a broken car or dangerous car, broken on the road.

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You're gonna take it off the road before it hurts somebody, fix it, put it back on the road, or retire it to the garage.

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And so you can see the, the, the just blatant inconsistency.

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It's like, wait a second.

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Who is going to go put criminals off the street?

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If we don't control our actions?

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Who's gonna find them guilty?

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If we don't control our thoughts?

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Who exactly is gonna decide that that car should go into the garage to get fixed?

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And all this, everything.

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He, and, and, and by the way, there was sort of a moral imperative in theirs to do things that don't hurt people.

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You know, protect society from criminals and dangerous cars, uh, that are broken on the road.

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Okay.

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All of that presumes that you have free will, and it presumes there's a moral imperative to, to reduce harm.

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None of that has to do with determinism.

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It, it, it, it violates every determinist principle.

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Hmm.

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I mean, it was two minutes later, but that's why I say that, that, that there, that there is, there are no determinists.

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They can't even talk like determinists.

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Without presuming that they have free will, that you're listening, that you can make judgements and maybe I can persuade you about something and change the course of the universe.

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I'm, so, I'm on.

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The funny thing is I'm on the same side as you and I'm trying to figure out and maybe someone listening is trying to figure out who, who, yeah.

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Was that Zephyr?

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That's Zephyr

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Except fors loud,

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Zephyr from Turkey.

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international cat on, on air.

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Don't blame me for that interruption.

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It was determined I had

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right, right.

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It was all planned.

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It was gonna happen.

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It was gonna happen.

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I'm trying to remember what I was gonna say, but oh yeah.

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So the funny thing is, I, I'm, I am on the same side side as you and I.

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Maybe, maybe I don't get out as much, but I, I rarely run into somebody that is like a determinist.

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And maybe because I, my circles are, you know, the ones that I've built over time.

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But, um, what are some like misconceptions that people have about consciousness and free will that are skewing towards the, the, the determinist side?

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I'm, I'm curious

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How much time do we

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right.

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one of them is that free will, has to be absolute if you don't control everything, you control nothing.

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And Harris has a quote in his book that says, what would it take to have free will?

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I'm paraphrasing a bit.

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You would have to know about and control everything that determines us.

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Biology, physiology, genetics, parents, birth circumstances, everything.

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Mm.

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that's a, that, that's a pretty stupendous misconception, I think was the word you were asking for.

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I mean it, what it does is it confuses influence with control.

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Things can influence us without controlling us or determining us.

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You know, our body can be a, a biological platform for the operation of consciousness.

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Mm-hmm.

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I, if it isn't, you're presuming what you're trying to prove, which is that we're determined, but there's no logical reason why.

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Why genetics?

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Your body where you were born aren't conditions or circumstances in which your free will operates.

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And the misconception is that free will has to be absolute and it's just the opposite.

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Free will has to have limits and boundaries.

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I mean, what are we pushing against?

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We're pushing against circumstances that structure reality.

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If there are no reality, they we'd be floating in space.

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There would be nothing to push or change.

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So, there's this very odd misconception that, that, that everything that influences us, us controls us and no distinction is made.

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We have to control everything or control nothing really.

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So, I, I didn't choose my parents, but I can't talk back to them.

00:16:11.898 --> 00:16:22.633
I can't become an obstreperous child while my brother is the good boy, you know, who always gets the, the goodies, you know, I mean, It, it's just So that's one, that's

00:16:22.768 --> 00:16:23.638
Yeah, that's one.

00:16:24.072 --> 00:16:26.322
You want another, you want another 50?

00:16:27.493 --> 00:16:32.952
We could, let's, let's do one more and then I got a, I got a, a question that keeps popping up in my head.

00:16:32.952 --> 00:16:37.812
I, I want to give it, uh, it's it's, it's determined to ask you.

00:16:37.842 --> 00:16:42.263
So, go ahead, go on your go, go on The second misconception, I'm curious.

00:16:43.802 --> 00:16:46.263
Well, another biggie is that that science.

00:16:47.342 --> 00:16:50.403
Has confirmed that the world is determined.

00:16:51.092 --> 00:16:53.462
There's a physicist who did a a video.

00:16:53.852 --> 00:16:59.827
She's really terrific and does a lot of great videos, but on the one on free will, she says and I think I quoted this one too.

00:16:59.827 --> 00:17:00.307
It was a good one.

00:17:00.597 --> 00:17:05.907
If you deny that the world is determined, you are going against science.

00:17:06.762 --> 00:17:08.262
You are going against science.

00:17:08.292 --> 00:17:08.682
Wow.

00:17:08.682 --> 00:17:11.563
So sci So the question is resolved, right?

00:17:11.712 --> 00:17:12.732
Science is determined.

00:17:13.363 --> 00:17:16.813
Well, I did a fair amount of research on that because that's not just her claim.

00:17:17.042 --> 00:17:23.163
And, and Harris makes similar claims about tests that, that, that, that's alleged to approve this.

00:17:23.343 --> 00:17:33.053
But the reality is, at the end of the day, uh, the quantum science is consists of a number of different and conflicting theories.

00:17:33.053 --> 00:17:34.133
There is no one theory.

00:17:34.522 --> 00:17:41.423
And that's why it's, it's, it, it, it's the meaning in what it says about reality is constantly debated and obscure.

00:17:41.692 --> 00:17:56.599
But at the end of the day, of the top half dozen theories, three of them are quail endorsing a deterministic universe where free will isn't possible, and another two or three are probabilistic, which allows the possibility for free will.

00:17:57.140 --> 00:18:00.680
So it's completely split and it's not like there's any.

00:18:01.174 --> 00:18:10.875
Con a controversy that the top 4, 5, 6 positions, you can put'em out in they're half and half or roughly, depending on which one you think goes into that top group.

00:18:11.355 --> 00:18:18.815
Science has not made any determination, again, no pun intended, but it's tough not to avoid that word in this conversations

00:18:18.994 --> 00:18:19.384
Right.

00:18:19.484 --> 00:18:21.555
that, that that determinism is true.

00:18:21.555 --> 00:18:25.744
So these claims that science has proven determinism is true, is nonsense.

00:18:26.075 --> 00:18:27.634
What she's really saying.

00:18:28.819 --> 00:18:36.470
But implying something different is that her selected version interpretation of science has endorsed free will.

00:18:37.250 --> 00:18:40.400
Well, okay, but you're not going against science.

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:44.960
You're going against her interpretation, but that morphs into you're going against science.

00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:50.309
So it took me a long time to learn that those top theories were really split.

00:18:50.309 --> 00:18:51.359
It's really a split vote.

00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:52.259
The jury is split.

00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:54.240
There's no conviction

00:18:54.914 --> 00:18:55.154
No

00:18:55.259 --> 00:18:56.099
and no resolution.

00:18:56.144 --> 00:18:57.525
ma, no one can agree.

00:18:57.644 --> 00:18:57.914
What.

00:18:59.744 --> 00:18:59.984
Sure.

00:19:00.750 --> 00:19:05.952
Well, what I was gonna say is, when she made that statement, it was

00:19:05.972 --> 00:19:07.978
funny thing kind of bouncing into the frame.

00:19:08.143 --> 00:19:09.272
Yeah, yeah.

00:19:09.278 --> 00:19:11.472
If you're watching, there's like a tail just whipping around.

00:19:11.472 --> 00:19:11.952
It's funny.

00:19:12.952 --> 00:19:15.803
so yeah, if there's any cat lovers, watch the video on YouTube.

00:19:15.923 --> 00:19:17.603
Like, you're, you're gonna enjoy

00:19:17.647 --> 00:19:18.458
Well, where's yours?

00:19:18.458 --> 00:19:20.198
I think I'm, I'm showing mine.

00:19:20.198 --> 00:19:20.887
Where's yours?

00:19:21.067 --> 00:19:21.907
Yeah, right.

00:19:22.357 --> 00:19:32.847
My cat, she is passed out on the bed in the other room and, if there's just me here, you would hear scratching on the wall and like meowing.

00:19:33.147 --> 00:19:43.077
But my wife is doing her thing and so the cat doesn't need to be around us, but as long as there's someone to bother that's within reach, she's good.

00:19:43.198 --> 00:19:44.038
And she's a cuddler.

00:19:44.307 --> 00:19:46.288
So, I, we give her.

00:19:46.557 --> 00:19:58.438
The free will of where she wants to hang out in the house minus the office, because if she bites a plant it's almost like she's determined to get sick.

00:19:58.468 --> 00:20:02.518
So, I, I used some, some words in there if it wasn't obvious.

00:20:02.847 --> 00:20:11.307
But it's interesting going back to what that doctor said, that you know, it, it, if you don't believe in determinism you go against science.

00:20:11.307 --> 00:20:19.317
And I'm like, science is not about finding, it's finding answers and questioning, constantly questioning, constantly testing.

00:20:19.498 --> 00:20:20.698
It's ever evolving.

00:20:20.877 --> 00:20:26.637
Once you get into that mindset of the, of, of there being a limitation.

00:20:26.998 --> 00:20:28.617
Like, Hey, we figured everything out.

00:20:28.887 --> 00:20:31.198
That's your downfall because that's it.

00:20:31.198 --> 00:20:32.938
You, you've limited yourself.

00:20:32.998 --> 00:20:38.968
And if there's anything that's that goes on forever that's unchanging is like everything changes.

00:20:38.972 --> 00:20:40.978
Nothing stays this the same.

00:20:41.157 --> 00:20:42.867
And so it, it's.

00:20:43.813 --> 00:20:46.962
For that same reason, you have to continue to research.

00:20:47.022 --> 00:20:49.813
And we've, we're, we're always questioning ourselves.

00:20:49.813 --> 00:20:57.883
We would've still thought a lot of things like the moon was made outta cheese and if you know enough doctors, doctors, scientists thought that way.

00:20:58.307 --> 00:21:08.887
Then, uh, we, we would be craving some moon cheese right now, but, so you kind of dove into you mentioned that, that quantum realm, quantum physics.

00:21:09.798 --> 00:21:12.708
I'm curious, are you familiar with the double slit experiment?

00:21:13.887 --> 00:21:14.698
Yeah, of course.

00:21:14.698 --> 00:21:16.678
It's the heart of, it's the heart of the, uh,

00:21:17.498 --> 00:21:17.917
please,

00:21:17.938 --> 00:21:20.712
should, uh, It's the heart of the thing.

00:21:20.772 --> 00:21:22.633
The wave particle dwelling thing.

00:21:23.198 --> 00:21:24.178
Please share what.

00:21:24.252 --> 00:21:25.093
being articulate?

00:21:25.093 --> 00:21:25.722
It's part of the

00:21:26.053 --> 00:21:26.593
What is it?

00:21:26.923 --> 00:21:27.732
What is, please

00:21:27.853 --> 00:21:28.452
Oh, what is it?

00:21:28.573 --> 00:21:30.192
double slit experiment is.

00:21:31.512 --> 00:21:32.143
Sure.

00:21:32.353 --> 00:21:41.772
It was the popular, well known central demonstration that for some crazy reason that nobody understand.

00:21:42.387 --> 00:21:51.807
Matter behaves like a wave and a particle, which in, in their definitions are conflicting under Newtonian science waves fan out and spread.

00:21:51.807 --> 00:22:00.057
And, and particles are point, like, and concentrated and have determinate positions and it's one or the other.

00:22:00.367 --> 00:22:05.938
But in the double slit experiment, they, they would shoot, they shoot particles okay.

00:22:06.117 --> 00:22:07.587
At the double slits.

00:22:07.887 --> 00:22:10.438
And if nobody's looking.

00:22:11.803 --> 00:22:15.403
Which is another crazy thing that we'll get to the next level.

00:22:15.633 --> 00:22:18.843
The particles land on a back screen in wave patterns.

00:22:18.962 --> 00:22:23.883
There's alternating bands of density that shows that what went through those slits is a wave.

00:22:25.232 --> 00:22:25.563
Okay.

00:22:25.803 --> 00:22:33.692
But if you watch what's going on, right, and you, you watch and you track, you put monitors, watch what the particles, the paths are taking.

00:22:35.057 --> 00:22:36.167
They don't land as waves.

00:22:36.167 --> 00:22:40.218
Now suddenly they're par two clumps of particles on the back screen.

00:22:41.417 --> 00:22:43.307
Okay, so what the hell is matter?

00:22:43.307 --> 00:22:49.518
And how can particles, when you're not looking suddenly become waves

00:22:50.518 --> 00:22:51.208
Yeah, the

00:22:51.222 --> 00:22:52.242
pr pretty freaky.

00:22:52.248 --> 00:23:00.673
And the other, the other sort of startling thing is how could looking, how could monitoring, how could observation, Affect what anything does.

00:23:00.673 --> 00:23:02.032
There's no physical contact.

00:23:03.762 --> 00:23:04.932
It's just ethereal.

00:23:04.932 --> 00:23:16.673
There's no, it, it, it's, it's, and, and today, you know, it's what, a hundred years after quantum science started going in, in 1905 or thereabouts, depending on how you count the beginning.

00:23:17.623 --> 00:23:19.732
Nobody knows the answer to this.

00:23:19.942 --> 00:23:24.833
And those, those five or six theories that I was talking about, they all have different ideas.

00:23:25.208 --> 00:23:25.847
On one of'em.

00:23:25.853 --> 00:23:31.567
There are both particles and waves, but we don't know exactly how the waves are piloting the particles.

00:23:31.567 --> 00:23:33.847
And another one, it's all waves, another one, it's all particles.

00:23:34.448 --> 00:23:36.607
It's it, it's a complete mystery.

00:23:37.147 --> 00:23:42.248
And, and so puzzling, I mean, so that was the basic demonstration of wave particle duality.

00:23:42.607 --> 00:23:43.657
What does matter?

00:23:44.048 --> 00:23:45.998
How can it be a wave and a particle?

00:23:46.748 --> 00:23:49.448
And what's causing the transition between the two?

00:23:50.083 --> 00:23:50.502
Mm-hmm.

00:23:50.617 --> 00:23:51.278
observation?

00:23:51.278 --> 00:23:52.448
Is it something else?

00:23:53.752 --> 00:23:54.462
Makes no sense.

00:23:55.452 --> 00:24:08.492
it's like it's Almost ungraspable because there are infinite possibilities and you're trying it, I feel like you're trying to grasp that air, right?

00:24:08.762 --> 00:24:11.732
And it's not meant to be grasped that, like the concept

00:24:11.827 --> 00:24:12.248
Mm-hmm.

00:24:12.518 --> 00:24:17.403
on itself and inside out, which I love because I love freaky dey, stuff like that.

00:24:18.423 --> 00:24:20.883
So I'm glad that we nationally went that direction.

00:24:21.018 --> 00:24:21.738
here's one other.

00:24:21.887 --> 00:24:27.857
Let me give you one other freaky flip to it cuz there's various permutations that are, that are even crazier.

00:24:28.218 --> 00:24:36.587
One that comes to mind is that after the particles go through the slip, they can put something that monitors not, but afterwards.

00:24:37.337 --> 00:24:41.327
And that changes whether they're gonna land as a particle or wave.

00:24:41.327 --> 00:24:46.682
If they put in monitor Now, At the slits, waves have to be created.

00:24:46.682 --> 00:24:52.083
They interfere with each other and they overlap, and the peaks and the troughs cancel each other.

00:24:52.083 --> 00:24:52.623
And the peaks.

00:24:52.623 --> 00:24:55.383
And the peaks, and that's how you get those alternating bands.

00:24:55.742 --> 00:24:57.752
So what went through the slits?

00:24:57.903 --> 00:25:03.212
If afterwards you can do something to alter the outcome?

00:25:04.022 --> 00:25:10.323
Well, something had to happen at the slits if they were gonna land as waves Logically.

00:25:11.403 --> 00:25:14.042
But nothing, nothing happens at that.

00:25:14.042 --> 00:25:19.323
Those slits that can't be changed by by something thereafter makes no sense.

00:25:19.353 --> 00:25:20.732
Retroactively.

00:25:21.512 --> 00:25:23.673
It's like retroactively.

00:25:23.732 --> 00:25:26.373
That's just, that's just a sort of a metaphor.

00:25:26.643 --> 00:25:31.262
I don't think that's a theory of anyone's, but in any case, that's pretty strange.

00:25:31.472 --> 00:25:32.147
Yeah, it's a,

00:25:32.192 --> 00:25:38.663
And Wave article duality is sort of the, the sort of central conundrum in quantum science.

00:25:38.663 --> 00:25:39.022
I think that.

00:25:39.458 --> 00:25:42.938
Richard Feinman, famous physicist said that it's the heart of quantum science.

00:25:43.178 --> 00:25:45.307
mm mm Yeah.

00:25:45.307 --> 00:25:50.178
The, um, the fact that duality can exist where one particle.

00:25:50.823 --> 00:26:04.772
Will act like one particle when an observer that believes in one particle and then once the observer is gone, the particle can go back to doing what it was doing, which was what I call freaky deaky.

00:26:04.982 --> 00:26:07.383
And it is it, it is one particle.

00:26:07.593 --> 00:26:08.702
It's no particle.

00:26:08.792 --> 00:26:12.843
It's two particles all at once, and it's creating that wave pattern, which is insane.

00:26:12.873 --> 00:26:16.952
So it's, that is like how you can start to explain.

00:26:17.613 --> 00:26:21.123
That there are infinite possibilities and, um, yeah.

00:26:21.182 --> 00:26:33.768
Yeah, I know that, um, you wanted to I know that Well anyways, I think we can end on that because that was a, a good closing concept could be that is

00:26:33.788 --> 00:26:34.178
Can I,

00:26:34.248 --> 00:26:38.288
a, an awesome teaser for anybody who wants to get into this, this conversation.

00:26:38.292 --> 00:26:38.678
So,

00:26:39.147 --> 00:26:41.678
can I tie it back to free will or we, um,

00:26:42.087 --> 00:26:42.897
tie it back my

00:26:43.018 --> 00:26:43.288
no.

00:26:43.377 --> 00:26:43.498
Okay.

00:26:43.768 --> 00:26:44.248
All right.

00:26:44.248 --> 00:26:51.807
Because, uh, we gotta complete the circle, the, the relevance to the free will debate and especially entanglement.

00:26:51.807 --> 00:26:55.228
That's another quantum phenomena that everybody has sort of ard about.

00:26:55.617 --> 00:27:01.407
The idea that you do something here and 18,000 universes away, galaxies away, it doesn't matter.

00:27:01.407 --> 00:27:02.877
Something happens over there.

00:27:03.613 --> 00:27:09.643
And, and it, it introduced the concept of non-physical, non-local influence.

00:27:09.643 --> 00:27:16.692
Nobody knows what it is, how it works, but under Newtonian science, before quantum science influence was physical, it was local.

00:27:16.692 --> 00:27:18.883
You had to have contact, transfer of energy.

00:27:19.333 --> 00:27:22.932
Now you've got a phenomenon where you do something here and 18 galaxies away.

00:27:22.932 --> 00:27:27.163
Something instantly happens over there, instantly fascia than the speed of light.

00:27:27.792 --> 00:27:30.772
Which is the limit that special relativity puts on things.

00:27:31.103 --> 00:27:32.903

#39 Can We Control Our Destiny? Are We Bio Robots?

David Lawrence

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