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Are you familiar with the concept of centering prayer?
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What about combining prayer with meditation?
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Well, today's guest is Rich Lewis, an author, speaker, and coach who has dedicated nearly a decade to daily practice of what he calls centering prayer.
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He's helped countless individuals unlock their true selves and experience profound inner transformation through the power of silence.
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You're listening to the new age human podcast, where we have mind expanding conversations around science, spirituality, and alternative health to help you unlock your true potential and thrive in a rapidly changing world.
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My name is John Astacio and I've been in the health and wellness industry for over 10 years, helping professionals and entrepreneurs improve their mental and physical wellbeing using lifestyle changes and now immersive meditation.
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As an entrepreneur and truth seeker myself, my mission is simple help professionals and truth seekers like you achieve lasting transformation and deeper awareness so you can navigate uncertainty and live a purpose driven, fulfilling life.
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So if you've ever prayed or meditated before, or even thought of doing so, stay tuned.
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As we explore the transformative power of combining the two.
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And also we're going to discover practical techniques that you can start using today to elevate your life.
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now with that said, let's get to the show.
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Welcome to the show rich.
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How's it going?
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Great.
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Great Thanks for having me on and good morning to you and your audience Yeah,
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good
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morning.
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Um, maybe you're listening from where they are, but good morning from me and you.
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So,
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right.
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So, um Centering prayer That's, that's a new phrase for me.
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Is that something you came up with?
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Or is something that you feel Like, uh, yeah, did you make that up or is that something that you you found i'm just what's going on there?
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No centering prayer.
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I I didn't create the term centering prayer is a silent prayer Meditation practice that and it was it was created actually in the Early 1970s, so there's actually three Trappist monks, so three Catholic priests, um, kind of came up with the idea of centering prayer.
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One of them, Father William Manager, was reading a classic, I think it was a 12th century book called The Cloud of Unknowing, and as he read this book, book, um, that if you or I read, it might be kind of hard to understand and read, but he was reading it, and it kind of, a way of silently sitting with God, not verbally praying, but just sitting with God, kind of came to him, and we'll talk about how it, how you do it, but, and then he began interacting with the other two priests, Thomas Keating and Basil B.
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And they kind of refined the practice, rolled it out to clergy, and then really the masses and anyone that might be interested in sitting with God, um, rather than verbally talking to God.
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And then about 10 years later in 1984, Thomas Keating created the Contemplative Outreach Organization.
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So it's ContemplativeOutreach.
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org, and it's really the main Centering Prayer, um, organization.
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So if you go to that site, you'll see a ton of resources on Centering Prayer.
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You'll see groups that practice Centering Prayer together in community via Zoom, or maybe even in a building, all over the U.
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S.
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as well as internationally.
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So it's a neat, neat organization.
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Site to go to for resources groups that practice as well as resources retreats and and and that type of stuff So the practice center and prayer that they created not me has been around about 50 years But the idea of sitting in silence and meditating with god is has been around for thousands of years and goes really All the way back to jesus.
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So the idea of doing this is not a 50 year practice It's a couple, you know Thousands of year practice going back to Jesus and going back to the Old Testament as well.
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Essentially, uh, another way of doing something that's ancient in its form, right?
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Right, exactly.
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Perfectly stated.
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Cool.
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And, um, I like how you brought that back and you're like, well, it's referenced by this and this and this.
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So I'm like, oh, awesome answer.
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Um, you know, the, the thoughts that come to my mind and I want to, um, eventually get into how you found centering prayer.
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Um, but I, I, I do want to mention that there are some people that I, I've had conversations with where some people, um, are in fear of meditation.
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And if you are, I guess more of a strict, uh, Christian or a strict Catholic, maybe you're in fear of meditation and thinking it's, it's different from prayer.
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Um, do you, are, do you feel comfortable touching up on that?
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Because I think that, um, there could be a lot of people just in the middle.
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Sure, sure.
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No, and how I refer, refer, refer kind of tell people about that is one, Jesus went off in silence to be alone with God and they surmise he didn't always talk, he just sat with God, particularly when he was in the desert fasting as they talk about in the New Testament, he needed to conserve energy so he would not have been talking, he would have been conserving his energy because he was fasting, he wasn't eating, he wasn't drinking, so he was going to conserve energy, he wasn't going to be running around and he probably wasn't even talking, he was just sitting.
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So I tell people the idea of just sitting with God and being with God has been around for thousands of years and goes all the way back to Jesus.
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And it's talked about in the Bible where it talks about Jesus going off to be alone.
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Or even in the Old Testament, be still and know I'm God.
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I mean, that's what we're doing in Centering Prayer.
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We're being Or any type of contemplative practice like this, we're being still with God.
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We're just sitting with God and we're letting God pray in us.
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Just a different way of, I think of it as a reverse prayer.
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Instead of I'm praying, God's praying in me.
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I'm sitting and letting God nourish my soul and feed me what God knows I need.
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And get, getting myself out of the way.
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I love that.
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I really do.
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Um, I'm all about that.
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If anybody knows me, I'm Heavy into, uh, suggesting, just calm your behind down and just connect with your inner self, which is that, that connection.
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And I like how you put that because there are people that are in fear of maybe something demonic pretending, right?
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And it's like, Oh yeah, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm your guy, you know?
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Here's some some answers.
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Um, have you had anybody say that?
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They're like, well, uh, you know, like I'm like, I don't want to say devil's advocate, but I'm just, um, I'm like thinking of people that I know that may be opposed to meditation and, um, let's say what you just said was, well, when you, you know, you allow God to pray within you, And how do you decipher between that and some, some thing that has, um, nefarious, uh, plans, like a poser type of thing?
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Have you come across that conversation before?
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Yeah, I have.
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I would say, I think of it as my true self barometer.
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I mean, if it's telling me to do things that are, that I don't feel comfortable doing, peace and calm about, if it's telling me to do things that will harm me or harm others, if it's telling me to do things that really are not compassionate, empathetic, loving, um, then it's probably not God praying in me, it's probably me.
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And I, me thinking what I should do instead of listening to the inner wisdom with, within me.
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So that's, that's kind of how I would counter that, so to speak, is that you can, you can kind of tell what are these actions, compassionate, loving, empathetic, um, type of actions, caring actions, not harmful actions, or, or are they just very egotistical actions and, and hurtful actions and, and maybe harm others and maybe they're competitive.
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Super competitive actions where, um, we're stopping people from getting things that they might need or want.
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Hmm.
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Yeah, and and I agree, right?
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And it may seem like a very like obvious answer like if you hear a voice and like hurt that person like now like, uh, Right, do unto others as you want to be done, you know, treat others like you would like to be treated.
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Right.
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Um, just simple things to sit with.
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Um, and I like the idea of when you add my personal experiences as as I go within right as I center in my unique way.
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Right.
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I, I noticed what, the more I know about myself, the more easier it is for me to know what isn't me.
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And, and that has been like an addicting journey for me because we live in a world where there's a lot of people with a lot of opinions, um, telling us what the right way to do things are.
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And, um, that's why I love going within.
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I love The idea of centering yourself because now your path is like dead straight each time you do it, right?
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And I feel like you are on the path of doing very similar work And if not the same where you're helping people obviously center themselves So I definitely want to get into how you found this Center prayer like were you always that type of person to go within for answers like where did that come from?
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Sure.
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I guess I've been, I found Centering Prayer in 2013.
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So prior to that, um, I probably, I was more in a search mode.
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I knew that maybe my prayer life or relationship with God really lacked depth.
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And I was really just on the surface.
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There was no depth to it.
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There was something missing, but I didn't know what it was.
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And I, and I discovered Centering Prayer in late 2013.
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I was simply perusing Amazon looking for a book to read, and I came across a book called um, Healing the Divide, Recovering Christianity's Mystic Roots by Amos Smith.
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And as I began reading the Kidnall version, which is what I purchased, it was, he talked about a practice called Centering Prayer that he had been doing for, I think, about a year about 15 years up until that point, and it immediately piqued my interest.
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So I began continuing to read the book.
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I began practicing Centering Prayer for myself.
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I began looking at other authors that were Centering Prayer practitioners or wrote books about Centering Prayer.
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And I reached out to him and we began a back and forth email dialogue and then we became friends and to this day we talk about once a month.
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He's on the west coast, I'm on the east coast, but to this day we've now been friends for almost 10 years and kind of collaborate.
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He's the one that nudged me to write my book, Sitting With God.
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He had written that book, he was in the midst of writing a second book, and he challenged me to write a book and then kind of served as a helpful mentor.
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in Centering Prayer as I began it, as well as in writing a book.
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So I guess I discovered Centering Prayer on Amazon.
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But internally, I probably knew I was always looking for, like, I always liked being in solitude.
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I always liked, I mean, I liked being with people too, obviously, but I liked, I didn't mind being alone.
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I didn't mind going on solo bike rides.
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I didn't mind walking in nature.
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I loved looking at the ocean.
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So I loved all of that type of stuff.
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But I just, Knew there was something missing.
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I loved all of that, and there was something deeper beyond all of that.
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And I found it in Centering Prayer.
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Interesting, and you, it seems like you were I'm doing a lot of, let's say, solitary things, right?
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And not everybody can do that.
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Some people just need to be around noise.
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Um, but what about that wasn't enough for you to cause you to say, I'm, I need some, something next level.
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I'm very curious.
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I would, I would say I think I was just bored.
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I think I was, I knew that there was something deeper to my spiritual life and that I knew there was something more to God than I was giving, giving God the benefit.
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Um, so, so, and then initially I just began practicing silence.
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So actually even, even before Centering Prayer, I would just sit and, I had read some books by Karl McCullin.
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He talked a lot about the power of silence.
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I don't remember him talking about any practices in his book, so I would just sit in silence.
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And at that time, I remember being brutal, and I would just set a timer for a minute, two minutes, three minutes, and I remember being extremely difficult.
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So I was glad I found Centering Prayer, because it was, gave me a tool or practice to sit in silence and open to God.
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So, um, so, so I guess it was, yeah, I was just looking to deepen my relationship with God.
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I, I was bored with my prayer life.
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I was bored with my relationship with God.
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I, I thought there was something more.
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I just didn't know what it was and I didn't know how to find it or dig deeper in the well of God, I'll call it.
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Right.
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And you, um, Well, first I want to give you kudos to reaching out to that person that inspired you.
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And then now they're like a friend of yours, a mentor, which is really something to, I don't know what the word is, but I think it's really cool.
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Um, just because we, you know, when you pick up a book and it's an interesting subject matter and you're like, wow.
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And if it's one of those things where it, It has the ability to change dramatically change your trajectory in life, and then you get to meet the person that was responsible for that change for you.
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Oh, that's that's amazing.
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So I'm very happy for you with that.
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Um, and I'm very curious about, uh, The technique of Centering Prayer, what makes this, um, unique and special?
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Sure.
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Well, I'll share how you do it then.
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With Centering Prayer, and Centering Prayer is considered, um, it is considered meditation, but it's also considered, you know, building and deepening your relationship with God.
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So it's meditation and a way of deepening your relationship with God.
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And we believe we're opening to the presence and actions of God within us.
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We don't believe we're God, but we believe God is within us and wants to be expressed through us and out into the world.
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So we're, we're opening to the presence and actions of God within us.
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during Centering Prayer, and how you do it is you sit comfortably, or you can lie down if you have a bad back, close your eyes, and then interiorly, to begin your Centering Prayer sit, you introduce what we call a sacred word.
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It's usually one, two, or three syllables, so it could be love, it could be ocean, beach, it could be Jesus, and that, and that's really just signifying that you're now on Opening to the presence and actions of God within.
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And then as you're sitting there in your silent sit, when you begin engaging your thoughts, and what I mean by that is if you begin thinking about what you're going to do after your sit or the errands you have to do later in the day, or if you begin thinking about things you did before your sit, you realize you're not really sitting with God in the present moment, you're sitting with you and your thoughts and your planning and plotting.
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So then you reintroduce that sacred word to let go of your, what we call your engaged thoughts, and then you even let go of the sacred word.
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So you don't, you don't use the word as a mantra, and there are mantra practices, and that's okay, Centering Prayer just is not a mantra practice.
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So you just use that word interiorly to come back to the present moment.
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when you notice you're engaging your thoughts.
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Sometimes you naturally catch yourself and you don't even need your word.
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Other times you catch yourself and you just kind of slip the word in to let go of your thoughts, and then you let go of the sacred word.
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And you just do that when needed during the duration of your sit.
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So it's kind of as simple as that.
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So for me it made it easier to sit in the silence while I was writing.
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Because it was a way of, well, what do I do with my thoughts?
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So it made it easier for me.
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And it just made sitting with God, sitting in silence, a whole lot easier than just sitting in silence and not knowing, how do I do this?
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Hmm.
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There's a lot of.
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Well, there's definitely intention behind that with that sacred word.
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Where do you, um, choose to find your sacred words?
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Um, well, I, and I guess one thing you want to be careful, so like if it's, if you use beach, and you love the beach, and spending your whole silent sit, thinking about the beach, then that's the wrong word.
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The word really is just used to let go of your engaged thoughts and come back to the purpose of your sit, of opening to the presence and actions of God.
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So you'll want to use a word that will work for you, but it's not something you're meditating about during the sit.
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So if it's beach, as I said, and you're meditating on the idea of the beach and your upcoming vacation, and you can't wait for it, then you probably want to use a different type of word.
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But I think you just.
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Pick, pick a word that's meaningful to you.
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You can even pick an image, like I, uh, some people pick words if they're auditory people.
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Um, I kind of quickly realized I'm more of a visual person, so I actually picture a, a, a G icon in my head, and come back to this icon, this kind of the, picture in my head.
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Some people are more, um, physical people, so they'll use their breath to come back to the present moment.
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And then some people are worried they'll fall asleep during Centering Prayer.
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Or, at least Amos, yeah, he's not worried about falling asleep, but he was, he's the author I mentioned earlier.
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He actually, We'll practice it with his eyes open, um, and he stares at a spot, kind of on the ground.
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We'll have to ask him if he still does that, but that's what he had initially told me.
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He keeps his eyes open, he doesn't close his eyes.
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And some people don't close their eyes too, because they think they'll fall asleep.
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Hmm.
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Especially if you're lying down,
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right?
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Right, right.
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And if you do fall asleep, maybe you just need to do your sit at a different time.
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Like maybe you're doing a si Some people might do a silent sit later in the evening, or close to bedtime, and maybe that's really the wrong time, and you should do it earlier anyhow.
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So that clues you into that, well I'm falling asleep, so maybe I need to move my sit.
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to a different time.
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Right.
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Have you ever fallen asleep?
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I probably have.
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Um, and, and I think that's okay.
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And I think, and God has a sense of humor.
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I think God would probably, you needed that little nap and, and I think God can still pray in us while we're sleeping.
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But no, I guess my objective is not centering prayers, not my nap time.
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But if for some reason I would fall asleep, I think God has a sense of humor and God realizes, well, Rich probably needed this, this 10 minute or 20 minute nap time.
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I'm still going to pray in him anyhow, so.
00:19:31.701 --> 00:19:35.840
But is it, but no, as if it was a practice, I don't consider it a nap time.
00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:39.611
So I would readjust it if, if I feel like I'm going to fall asleep.
00:19:40.105 --> 00:19:50.215
Or I would get up and move, like before you're centering prayer sit, maybe you do something, you read, you move, you walk around a little bit just to get yourself awake and ready.
00:19:50.635 --> 00:20:03.915
Because really it's more of an aware, it's more of an awareness, you're really sitting with God and you're letting go of thoughts, but you're really kind of fully, trying to become fully aware of the present moment and being with the present moment.
00:20:05.050 --> 00:20:06.121
Yeah, I like that.
00:20:06.260 --> 00:20:13.411
And how long would you say is the average time you would recommend someone do a Centering Prayer?
00:20:13.881 --> 00:20:14.201
Sure.
00:20:14.431 --> 00:20:19.240
Well, for beginners, so for the idea of this as being brand new, I would say take baby steps.
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:21.451
So I would say start with five minutes.
00:20:21.881 --> 00:20:24.151
And most people find that that's not that long.
00:20:24.161 --> 00:20:32.990
Like I've done some talks for church groups via Zoom in the past, and we'll do a five minute sit together after I talk about the practice and share about it.
00:20:33.010 --> 00:20:36.921
And most people will say, That wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.
00:20:36.921 --> 00:20:38.550
It went rather quickly.
00:20:38.780 --> 00:20:45.681
So I would say start with five minutes and then, and then slowly, you know, increments of a few minutes at a time.
00:20:45.681 --> 00:20:48.621
If you can get yourself up to 20 minutes, that would be great.
00:20:48.941 --> 00:20:52.260
So like starting your day with a 20 minute sit is just.
00:20:52.546 --> 00:20:55.596
Powerful way to begin your day and it might mean all right.
00:20:55.596 --> 00:21:14.276
I set my alarm like it I might get up 20 minutes earlier and that's okay I think you'll the benefits of it or are powerful if you practice this type of practice Look back after 30 days or 60 days or 90 days that it really is a wonderful way to start your day
00:21:16.726 --> 00:21:25.925
Yeah, and I I agree with the whole starting your day with that because it Start you know you it's like a reset a refresh exactly especially if you had like a nightmare, right?
00:21:26.935 --> 00:21:32.415
And then um Starting at like those small increments makes a lot of sense.
00:21:32.435 --> 00:21:51.195
I had to do that when I started to do Meditation sitting in silence myself because in my mind prior was insanely non stop scattered and Just had a difficult time in and I Starting.
00:21:51.266 --> 00:21:54.016
I had to start with like five seconds than 10.
00:21:54.056 --> 00:21:56.435
You know, like I couldn't even do a minute.
00:21:57.105 --> 00:22:05.135
Um, but I do feel like special things start to happen after the five, maybe even 10 minute mark.
00:22:05.625 --> 00:22:10.465
And I'm curious, what's your experience when you go past 5, 10 minutes?
00:22:10.945 --> 00:22:17.336
Um, if, if there's anything that you would like to share and then as well, I wanted to add the question.
00:22:17.346 --> 00:22:19.385
Do you, what do you add to that?
00:22:19.685 --> 00:22:27.621
Um, because there's, There's the word prayer involved, so you ask questions, I'm curious about like the next step after the 5 10 minute mark.
00:22:28.310 --> 00:22:28.631
Sure.
00:22:29.070 --> 00:22:35.181
Well, now during Centering Prayer, we're really not doing anything other than the exact practices as I shared.
00:22:35.181 --> 00:22:44.121
So when we engage our thoughts, we're letting go of our thoughts, so we're not clinging to thoughts, we're not meditating on things, we're not seeing where that thought takes us.
00:22:44.131 --> 00:22:58.631
So we really are just letting go of whatever it is, even if it's a great idea comes up, we're going to trust that outside of our sit, if this is a great idea that we should be taking action on, it's going to come back up outside of my center and prayer sit.
00:22:58.911 --> 00:23:07.020
So during that time, it's really 100 percent devoted to just sitting with God and doing the practice and not engaging my thoughts.
00:23:07.256 --> 00:23:12.385
not stopping and writing it down on a piece of paper if I thought I had just a wonderful aha moment.
00:23:12.766 --> 00:23:21.855
Now, outside of your sit, that's what you can do, and I'll do some journaling and think about, well, what, what, what was God feeding me during this sit?
00:23:22.165 --> 00:23:38.611
Or, or, or even just journaling in general, where I could be either just trying to motivate myself for the upcoming day, or I could be trying to just, I've done things that I think God wants me to do, or I might, or I might just vent and I need to get things off of my chest, but I'll do all that outside of center and prayer.
00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:46.901
And I like, I think journaling and meditation are full complimentary practices because outside of your meditation.
00:23:47.050 --> 00:23:55.141
You can do journaling and jot down your ideas and thoughts or even just vent or, and as I said, or motivate yourself.
00:23:55.161 --> 00:23:56.411
Like, I'm going to have a great day.