Transcript
WEBVTT
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I started on, on social media, I started a hashtag 10 year terrain.
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And the reason I did that was because I saw a beach in Spain being sprayed with bleach before they let people back on it.
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And yeah, right.
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And so it was just like, Oh man, this is, um,
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it wrong! all right.
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Welcome to the new way to in podcast.
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I'm your host.
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John Astacio and today's guests is dr.
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Catherine Clinton, who's a naturopathic physician with a focus on gut health, autoimmunity, and psychoneuroimmunology.
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That's a mouthful, right?
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So, we actually go into a couple really cool topics.
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We talk about her personal journey and story of being diagnosed with a long list of stuff for autoimmune disease that affects the gastrointestinal tract.
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We dive into terrain theory versus germ theory, which goes directly against mainstream school of thought.
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I know you're going to love that one.
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We also elaborate on quantum biology and at the very end, we go over her top three quantum biology hacks for optimal health now, if you want to support the show, please share with a friend, if you're listening, you can always leave us a great review on Apple podcast.
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And if you're watching, go ahead and gently ever so slightly smash that subscribe button.
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If you want to get in contact with me, feel free to go to new age, human.
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com, record a message and, or send me an email.
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Now, without further ado, let's get to the show.
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once again, thank you for coming on to this show.
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Dr.
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Catherine Clinton.
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Thank you.
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Welcome.
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Welcome.
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Well, thank you so much, John, for having me.
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I'm really excited to dive into some of my favorite topics with you.
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And I love that they're your favorite topics, right?
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Because we're gonna we're gonna go dive in there and probably confuse people and open some brains.
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That's what I'm looking to do.
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Just like if you haven't heard this before I know that you do really good at.
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Breaking things down and being aware of how complex this stuff can be, right?
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I definitely want to start out with having everybody get a feel for, where you come from.
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I know that you have a story behind having an autoimmune disease that changed everything for you to what you're doing today.
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Could you briefly share that with us?
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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So, I went to naturopathic medical school.
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I actually assisted with a midwife for almost a decade, and I knew that wasn't for me, but She had such incredible natural modalities that I wanted to go to naturopathic medical school and become a naturopathic physician.
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And I was in my second year of school, and it was that like classic med school initiation phase, right?
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So like, you gotta be in class, sign the roster at seven.
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If you are a minute late, then you flunk the class and have to wait a year to start over.
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You know, the whole like...
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It's so stressful.
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And it was just that like, are you.
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material to be a doctor kind of thing, you know, and it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back and I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, which is a autoimmune condition that affects the G I track and the colon specifically.
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And Hashimoto thyroiditis, which is another autoimmune that affects affects the thyroid gland.
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I was diagnosed with Lyme disease, multiple GI infections and parasites.
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Um, it was just sort of that like domino effect.
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that's a whole list.
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when, when I do it, I go for it.
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I'm thinking about like, they probably gave you your diagnosis and it's like that CVS forever receipt, where it's just this list that keeps going.
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Exactly.
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Funny now.
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Not so funny at the time.
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Everyone was like, Oh, this is going to make you a great doctor.
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And it was just like, that's not what I want to hear.
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But I was in the perfect place.
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I was In naturopathic medical school, I was right down the hill from a very progressive, allopathic, mainstream medical school across the river from an acupuncture school.
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So I really had all these amazing tools at my fingertips and I was able to kind of piece my physical health back together and get back into school, get back into school.
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seeing patients, but there was definitely a piece missing.
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I mean, for anybody who's had a chronic disease, getting back to that place where you can be productive is wonderful, but it's Probably not the picture of health, right?
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And so, the mentor that I was working with, the Dr.
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Sacha Ambrose, she's absolutely incredible.
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And she started pushing me to look at psychoneuroimmunology.
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And that's just a big, fancy word for how our thoughts impact our biology.
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And I was resistant at first because just like, you know,
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Was it a little, like a little too woo woo or just.
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a little too much work.
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I, I wanted like a, a pill or a, a lifestyle change or, you know, weekly acupuncture.
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Couldn't we do that instead of deal with my emotions and my reactions and all this stuff?
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But of course, no, we couldn't because they have such an impact on our biology.
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And.
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It was at the same time I was researching mitochondrial function.
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And so that just blew the doors open for me on quantum biology.
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And as soon as I say those words, people are like, what are you talking about?
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Quantum biology, right?
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And It really is the study of quantum phenomenon, so tunneling, coherence, entanglement, superposition, all of these different quantum phenomenon that have been relegated to the lab.
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They're not supposed to happen in the wet, chaotic mess of a living system.
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But now we know since the early 2000s, we have a lot of evidence that's been mounting, showing how these quantum phenomenon actually are happening in our biology.
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In the smallest pieces, so on that nano sized scale, our mitochondria, our proteins, our enzymes, our DNA, all of these things seem to be Involved in these quantum phenomenon that, like I said, are usually relegated to some, you know, quantum physics laboratory experiment.
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And the way they do that is they shield the experiment from any kind of vibration or sound.
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They cool it.
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Absolute zero where no life can exist, right?
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So when quantum biology research started coming out in the early two thousands, quantum physicists were like, absolutely not.
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There is no way, but what we found like Fleming and Ingle out of UC Berkeley, what they found and Seth Lloyd from MIT, they found that the chaos of a living system is.
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What's actually guiding these quantum phenomenon, it's actually a necessary piece and so it's a really exciting time because once you reduce it down to that level.
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You start to see how interconnected everything is.
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I mean, we are sharing electrons with whatever is next to us and near to us.
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And that and the lines start to blur between an individual and a collective.
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And so I'm really hopeful that this.
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Emerging field of science brings us that interconnection, brings us to the idea that it's not just isolated mechanisms in an individual body.
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It's really this continuum of energy that we all share.
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And that brings so much import to our Everyday dealings as a society, how we deal with nature, how we deal with our own body.
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I'm really hopeful that this information will lead to a paradigm shift that we really desperately need in medicine right now.
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Yeah.
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And speaking of paradigm shift it looks like what you jumped into was the alternative, what we call what people call alternative, but it was technically the original way of healing, right?
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Knowing that we're all connected.
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And then seemingly it's not.
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In the history books anymore.
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It's really hard to find.
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There are books out there and I'm sure you were excited to find a solution that actually was going to work.
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And unfortunately, except the emotional part, right?
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But like, so, you attacked your emotions, so to speak.
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I say attack like aggressively, but you address the emotions and you, it sounds like it fixed.
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And helped you a lot by simply helping with the emotions and then adding different modalities.
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Correct.
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Absolutely.
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And, and I don't want to paint a picture like I'm a guru or I have reached emotional enlightenment or something like that.
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Absolutely not.
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It's, it was more an acknowledgement that those things have such an impact on our biology and on the flip side.
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So, you know, at the time, John, I was having a lot of anxiety.
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It was really sick.
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really depleted and really anxious.
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And so when someone started talking to me about how my thoughts could be playing into my sickness it was even more anxiety producing, right?
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Because it was like, shit, there's another one.
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Oh, there's another one.
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You know, like how do I deal with this?
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But it wasn't that.
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I needed to, you know, stop and change bad emotions.
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It was the acknowledgement and the loving acceptance of the range of human emotion.
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You know, we're, we're meant to feel all those different emotions.
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It's just when we get stuck in one that we can have, biological effects, right?
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And, and so that's really what it was.
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And it's still a journey to this day, you know, So I don't want to paint a picture that I am up on the hill and have reached, you know, this emotional enlightenment.
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It's just a loving acceptance of sort of my subconscious train of thought that, you know, most of us get from our early childhood or even epigenetically from parents and grandparents and great grandparents.
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So it's this.
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It's this journey of understanding how it all fits together, and rather than cutting out and getting rid of an anxious thought or depressed thought or an angry thought, it's a loving acceptance of that and being able to not get stuck
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Mm.
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Yeah, and that's something that I've been working on myself and, I feel you and when I started learning similar things, I'm like I'm stressed too often.
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And now this is just another stressor.
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But to your point, yeah, like, first of all, if anybody's watching dr Catherine Clinton is smiling this entire time.
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So she's her energy is definitely in that high vibe zone.
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And when you start to be more conscious of your health and the things and the fact and be aware of that, your thoughts can and will affect your health.
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Yeah, you're going to start thinking differently.
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And I, I see that when you started explaining, explaining that and myself too.
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So I, I completely identify with that.
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But I do want to get into terrain theory versus germ theory.
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Like this, I feel like is a hot topic, especially post pandemic, because you have a lot of opinions around it and you, with your background, with your experience, I I'm extremely curious about your, just your world of it and what, what your thoughts on that and how does that approach.
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Work with your, you know, your patient care and in your treatments.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I think a lot of my thinking has changed in the last several years in the last five years, especially in the last few years.
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Right?
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And I used to really love to talk about terrain theory and I still do, but there's part of me that sees germ theory and terrain theory as two sides of the same coin and placing the importance or, or the So to speak on the interaction with microbes and I think for us to get past that, well, we have quite a few hurdles, right?
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We have just this lineage of the last 200, 300 years.
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And Louis Pasteur and, and all of that talking about how germs are responsible for disease.
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But we also have this.
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Really strange, or I guess it's not strange at all.
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I guess it's human nature to be seeking the longest life to almost immortality, right?
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So if we're looking at like, ICU or a hospital trying to save somebody and, and life support.
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And this idea that hooking you up to a machine to elongate your life without Coming out of that without quality of life at the end of that, just for the sake of prolonging.
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We have such a hard time talking about death in our society.
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And I know this probably is not where you expected this
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Let's go
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to go.
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But, um.
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But it's true.
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I mean, we can't talk about health and disease without some kind of acceptance around death.
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And I, again, am not up on a hill when I think of you know, I'm a mom of three and If you talk to me about death and my children, there's an instant visceral reaction, right?
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We're humans we're attached to this physical material plane.
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But at the same time, if we're going to get anywhere, when we're talking about health and disease, it, I think it really serves us if we put that to the side.
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That, that, you know, constant, Desire to prolong life at any such means and, and if the theory around health or disease doesn't get us a longer life, right, then, then it's somehow Oh, Isn't truthful, right?
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And I think with microbes and germ theory and terrain theory, it's really interesting to look at the conversations around, you know, well, then what do we do?
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You know, if it's not the microbe, you know, what do we blame?
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And what what can we do?
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And how do we escape death?
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And And so that is, that is one sort of obstacle we have in the whole discussion.
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But when we look at the history of medicine, and specifically looking at the scientific revolution, you know, for a long time we had these indigenous, Healing traditions and beliefs about health that were in a, in a lot of places replaced by religious reasons, right?
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It wasn't a sort of energetic or spiritual in indigenous cause of disease.
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It was a religious one.
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And then in the scientific revolution in the 16 hundreds, we saw that replaced with.
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science, right?
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So all of those things were kind of brushed aside and If we're going to come to a consensus about what is causing disease, then we're going to find it underneath a microscope, right?
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We're going to isolate that germ and we're going to find that it's the cause of disease, right?
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Louis Pasteur and, and his sort of tribe from The, the 1800s and early 1900s, and then on the flip side, you've got this terrain theory idea with the shop with Claude Bernard.
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And, and they were actually.
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really close associates, Bernard and Pasteur.
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They worked together, they did research together, and when Bernard died, one of his friends actually published his work on His microbial studies where he actually came to the exact opposite You know conclusions that Pasteur had come to but that was never ever Acknowledged as far as we know right there may be behind the scenes conversations but I don't think so because when Pasteur found out that his papers had been published he was visibly upset very shaken that his friend had these beliefs and that someone would publish them and that they would be in opposition to his own ideas.
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And so you have these two sort of, is it the germ that's causing disease, which I think at this point we can just say quite clearly, no, it's not.
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Even with the most Intense microbial interactions, right?
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Rabies or, or Ebola or something, you know, these Microbes are not always associated with death and so For us to say that they are the one cause just we know is a fallacy and we know that for many transmission studies as well.
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Even up into COVID in the pandemic, they did a reinfection studies and only half the people got symptoms of COVID 19.
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Right.
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And so what else is going on and, and the terrain.
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Theory camp would say that that is a product of our internal and and thus external terrain.
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What is happening inside of our body that gives microbes the chance to take over, to cause problems in one person and not another.
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So it's really a fascinating discussion and, and like I said, I'm starting to You see things from a different light.
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And, and it's a perfect time to do so.
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You know, every time we have a global pandemic, we see a massive change in the way we view health.
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And so we couldn't be better poised to come up with some different ideas about what's happening with our health and with microbes.
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it's interesting how you you said you like absolutely not the microbes, right?
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And I remember talking to someone about when there's disease you see The culprit so to speak which is the germ but the germ is only there because you're weak And I just started I think a good analogy to what you're saying is um like gardening where I'm trying I'm the only thing that's like doing well right now in the garden is like tomatoes and I think a pickled cucumbers, and they're doing awesome But it took a while to get there because if I didn't take care of the terrain of the vegetables Is all these little Bad insects would come and start terrorizing the leaves and they would come in there and germ theory would say it's their fault.
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But it's my fault, really.
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I didn't water them because I was just lazy.
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I didn't drink the water.
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You know, like, that's us not drinking water and, and, uh, just going with the traditional standard American diet.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And are those microbes attacking a plant or are they participating in this endless recycling of energy and matter that happened on our planet at all times?
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You know, it's, I think.
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I started on, on social media, I started a hashtag 10 year terrain.
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And the reason I did that was because I saw a beach in Spain being sprayed with bleach before they let people back on it.
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And yeah, right.
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And so it was just like, Oh man, this is, um,
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it wrong!
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So very wrong.
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Yeah.
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So it's, it's, it's, you know, coming back to our place in the ecosystem.
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Like we are up on top with our bleach sprayers, controlling the thing.
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And it just couldn't be further from the truth, right?
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We are enmeshed in this greater ecosystem.
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Our attempts to control it often backfire because we aren't in control of it.
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We are, like I said, we are enmeshed in it.
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We are part of it.
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And once we kind of acknowledge and tend to our true place in the ecosystem, we start to see a much different picture of hell.
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Well,
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Mmm, I know that, terrain theory plays a huge role in As far as like making like preventative care, right?
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What are your thoughts on like, hey, you know what?
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I'm in a really bad space and All these things are great for preventative care, but what about like I need something like right now What are your thoughts on someone saying well, you know A lot of the solutions for germ theory will come in or you need to take a heart of the left and take this Insane like atom bomb type of pill to like destroy everything that's in the body.
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Like what are your thoughts on that?
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I have a lot of thoughts about this, but I think that we have gotten sort of caught in this idea that the symptoms speak to the greater picture when sometimes they don't.
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They.
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The idea of, you know, the nuclear bomb of antibiotics, right?
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In some cases, that will take care of those symptoms in that amount of time.
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But that isn't changing the garden example that you gave, right?
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We are still microbe, It's not a rebuilding spot, right?
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It is a continuation and something else is going to happen.
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because that terrain isn't vital, isn't able to communicate thoroughly with these microbes.
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So I, I am not a huge fan of that, but actually, just to be honest, if There was a situation where somebody is not in that preventative stage, where somebody is actually teetering because of those symptoms.
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And, and I do a lot of gastrointestinal work, right?
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So, So a lot of this comes from that.
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If we wipe out the GI colony, it'll get rid of symptoms.
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Now it'll bring other symptoms as well.
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Right.
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But but at.
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In some certain cases, just getting rid of those symptoms to be able to repair can be valuable.
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Now, is that something that I use regularly?
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Absolutely not.
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But, you know, emergency medicine is also not something I use regularly, and I'm glad it's there, and I think it has its uses, right?