#30 - Trauma Healing in the New Era of Mental Health

[00:00:00] JON: Welcome to the New Age Human Podcast. , today we're gonna be talking about trauma therapy and the realization that traditional therapy doesn't work for everyone. It's time to think outside the box. So today I have Colleen Nelson. Hey there, Um, She's a host. I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell everybody a little bit about you real quick.

Um, uh, you're the host of, \ Let the Rest Burn, which sounds kind of dark, so I'm gonna ask you about that. And then she is the also the founder of the Evolved Therapist and the movement into Transformational Therapeutic Experiences. Welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on.

[00:00:41] COLLEEN: Yes. So glad to be here, John. Very excited.

[00:00:44] JON: Yeah, I'm excited to talk about trauma. Right. you know, actually something that popped up twice to me and, um, I might as well take advantage when someone has, um, eyesight that's way off in one eye. Whether it's look not looking [00:01:00] at you or is really bad vision. Can you tell me whether or not is that trauma?

Cause I heard that has to do with trauma. Have you heard.

[00:01:08] COLLEEN: Yeah. Oh yeah. Our, our five senses can adapt based on a trauma. Completely. I mean, to think about the, like phantom limb syndrome, right? Like you literally feel like your arm is still there, but it's not, um, it's, our entire body can do that. I always say there's a caveat where there are biological reasons for it, right?

Like the, the eye might be made a little bit differently or the, the synapses may not be correctly, um, formed at birth. So there's some pieces that are biological that, that can affect any of that stuff. But I also. have seen across so many studies and so many clients how our five senses, especially vision, is affected when we see or experience things as children in particular that we don't want to see.

So our eyes [00:02:00] adjust our, our brains are beautiful adapters, especially ages zero to four. We can adapt like a boss. And sometimes those adaptations are not great as adults, and this is where we're, you know, a lot of people try and heal so that they can move from that space and not live in that space for the rest of their lives.

[00:02:23] JON: Okay. It's good to know. And, um, I know that, uh, A lot of times. And so my wife has that situation where she, one eye is like really off and so she can kind of, you know, pass the driver's test with one eye and, and it, it gets complicated and then, yeah, apparently you have a, a certain amount of time before you can start correcting that.

And then, uh, I do feel like nowadays we are starting to see how elastic the brain is, so, you know, all is not lost type of deal. So. . That is exciting to hear. So thank you for, uh, um, [00:03:00] solidifying that understanding so that, um, I can win some arguments now. Cool. Um, so I'm curious, why did you say, let the rest, why did you decide to call your podcast?

Let the Rest Burn? There's gotta be like a deep meaning behind.

[00:03:16] COLLEEN: Oh, a hundred percent. So let the rest Burn is actually a quote from Glennon, uh, Doyle. And it's from her book, uh, uh, untamed. So I, number one, that book completely. Uh, Changed my life in many, many different ways. And this quote in particular is just so, so, so powerful. Um, as, and I can read it to you. I can read the full quote if you'd like.

Um, . So the full quote is, when women lose themselves, the world loses its way. We do not need more selfless women. What we need right now is more [00:04:00] women who have detoxed themselves so completely from the world's expectations that they're full of nothing but themselves. What we need are women who are full of themselves.

A woman who is full of herself knows and trust herself enough to say and do what must be done. She lets the rest burn.

[00:04:16] JON: Wow. Is that all from.

[00:04:19] COLLEEN: Oh no, I just.

[00:04:20] JON: Okay.

[00:04:21] COLLEEN: Yeah.

[00:04:21] JON: you could have said, yeah, I'm amazing. And um, I'm full of myself and

[00:04:25] COLLEEN: I memorized it. Um, and I, I would even take out the word woman and I'd put a person, right? Like it doesn't have to be gendered. Glennon is speaking specifically to women and the expectations placed on them, and in particular mothers, but like person, right, like person can be placed in there.

How you be completely full of everything that is authentically you. and you let the rest burn. I actually have it tattooed right here under my breast on my, uh, rib cage. It was one of my first tattoos

[00:04:55] JON: Now, is it, um, mirror imaged or did, or is it for other people to read?[00:05:00]

[00:05:00] COLLEEN: yeah, other people to read, so if they were to look at me, they'd be able to see, let the rest burn. Yeah.

[00:05:05] JON: That's cool. I like it. It's, it's, it's a power. It's got a powerful meaning behind it. And, um, I mean, well, I came up with the new age human, uh, through meditating, so it wasn't from a powerful. Quote, but, uh, there's more than one way to get a, uh, story in.

So that's actually pretty cool. I really like the, the, the meaning behind it, and it is aligned with, um, new age human, you know, becoming the best version of yourself, right? Unlocking your human potential. Like, and it all starts with that journey inward, and I'm pretty sure you're all about that, especially with helping people with trauma.

Right. So, since we're on the subject of tattoos, I know that you have a profile photo and you're, you're specifically positioned to just show off, um, your muscles and then on those are, uh, I think it's moons, right? [00:06:00] Could you

describe in like what, is there like a, a story or meaning behind it?

[00:06:04] COLLEEN: so it's the full moon cycle. Uh, so, uh, and, and at the top is I think the feminine and at the bottom is the masculine, uh, just sim symbol symbolism there. And so, um, I love astrology.

I absolutely love the moon cycle. As a woman, obviously my body follows the moon cycle to a degree as well. Um, I have find a lot of healing in understanding how as a human being my, um, body interacts with the celestial experience of the universe.

And, um, I really. Found it healing in terms of my connections with women as well. Like moon circles, new moon circles, moon circles. My best friend is an astrologer, so when I was looking at [00:07:00] the tattoos that I wanted to put on my body, it was something that I knew I was gonna put on because it's just I, I mean, literally every morning I wake up and I read my little astrology thing from Channey who's like one of the best.

She's an app and everything is the best. you know, look at my best friend's, uh, Instagram profile where she tells me what phase the moon it's in and what expect, you know, if it's in Leo, are we gonna shine bright? If it's a new moon, are we planting a sea? It's all the shit, right? All it And, and you know, like I will take everything with a grain of salt to a degree, right?

Like, I'm not gonna be like, this is truth and no matter what, this is what has to be. I love curiosity. I love exploring the unknown. And this is something that, especially as a therapist, I have seen. Full moons, astrological events below people's minds. Yesterday, Uranus squared off with mercury, which is like disruptive information, like something some sort of shocking truth comes into your life.

I cannot tell you how many of [00:08:00] my clients, myself included, experienced a shocking truth yesterday.

[00:08:05] JON: Mm.

[00:08:06] COLLEEN: the themes start to line up and then you're just like, well, of course, of course. And then it makes sense and it gives meaning to things that feel meaningless and all of.

[00:08:15] JON: Okay. And, and for reference as a timestamp, today is February 22nd, 2023. So if you wanna dial it back and wonder if you had a, a shocking experience at this moment in time. Now, you know, right. Now, you know, I wanted to, um, go into, This, what, what, in your words, how would you describe exper uh, experiential transformation?

Cuz I, I feel that that's a big part of what you're doing as the evolved therapist.

[00:08:53] COLLEEN: So experiential transformation means in person, like actual physically [00:09:00] experiencing the transformation, not just a thought process or a, or talk therapy. So traditional talk therapy is you and me in an office, we're having a conversation for an hour, hour and a half. We're unpacking things, um, talking about stuff.

and I'm, I'm asking important questions. I'm reframing belief systems. I'm providing a safe space for you, all of which is extremely beneficial. But when it comes to taking action and actually shifting the pieces of your life, . When I say, okay, John, you're gonna go, you're gonna set this boundary. You're gonna ask for this thing.

You're going to, you know, finally say, this is what you want and you're not gonna back down. We've got an agreement. You've got an agreement, great. You go off into the world and you attempt to do it right. You walk outta my office, someone calls you, you get distracted, you get in the car, the music's on the radio, like it's that feeling.

Sometimes you can follow through with the homework of therapy, but oftentimes I was finding clients would come back and report [00:10:00] and say like, I tried, but I'm still getting these blocks. I'm still, my body is still stopping me. I'm still struggling with this. Well, the mind is one mechanism of change. The body is a whole nother one.

and the nervous system is built to keep us safe and protected and to survive. And so if setting that boundary is a threat to your survival based on what your body believes, it's not gonna let you do it or it's gonna fight you at real, real heart. So experiential transformation, in-person experiences, emdr, somatic experiencing things that include your body shift, your nervous system, and your thoughts.

which is a game changer for people who want to actually feel different, not just think differently.

[00:10:48] JON: Wow. Because, uh, so you're helping people transition out of the fight or flight in defense of change. And I'm thinking, I'm being very [00:11:00] self-conscious because I know that I can be very stubborn if I see something and I want to finish it, even though it doesn't make sense, I really feel like and need to finish it just so that I can just finish it.

And then if something comes in the way and I get very frustrated, I try my hardest to finish it and it, and then. Fight or flight comes in where you start stressing like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. And so it's cool to know that there's a technique out there where you can separate yourself from that feeling, which is pretty, pretty cool.

Um, I know that you are totally, totally open to new and controversial ways of healing. Um, I'm curious on how you came about those being in your profession and how that came. Could you share a story or two?

[00:11:57] COLLEEN: yeah, absolutely. Um, [00:12:00] talk therapy didn't work for me.

[00:12:02] JON: Hmm.

[00:12:02] COLLEEN: I was kind of annoyed by it actually. Um, and , I mean, truth. And as a therapist in traditional therapy, I was always wanting to make sure that I was supported so I could support my clients. I started to notice in 20 19, 20 20, the coaching industry started to come to play, right?

So the coaching industry kind of broke the mold, um, in terms of wellness. without the restrictions that typical therapists have to. Abide by, which means there's more of a, a friend to friend experience. The, it's not just a one session. You get to speak to them on an app. In between sessions, there's retreats, there's immersions, there's workshops, there's masterclasses.

There's these incredible new way of meeting people where they are without the regulation that comes from being [00:13:00] licensed. I think it's absolutely necessary for people to have training and certification, and I do think that, when you're going to process trauma with somebody, it's very good to have the education I have and the experiences I have.

But there was something really beautiful about the coaching world that I think the therapists are very restricted by. Neither is completely right, both are missing some pieces, but I was very, it was very appealing to me to step out of my role as a therapist and into a role as a trained trauma mentor and. and so that's the world I've stepped into. I've stepped out of traditional therapy and away from my traditional licensure and into the world of coaching. I have two separate businesses, and in this world of coaching and wellness, I get to explore what it looks like to heal in different ways so that you know right now I still have [00:14:00] my license.

I'm not sure if I'll let that go or not. I. uh, because the licensing board obviously still has control over some of the things that I do and like can make decisions about whether what I'm doing is ethical or not. So when somebody grieves me or they see my Instagram and they think it's too sexy, they can report it to my licensing board and then I have to defend myself.

So I like the license because I can practice EMDR with the license and some other pieces, but it really restricts me from being able to step into the world as a thought leader and a revolutionary, um, without honest, like retribution over here. So I'm playing with this year, potentially dropping the license, uh, which is kind of scary.

I'm, I still can call myself a therapist. I have a master's degree and all the training. It's a, it's a new world, so this is, this is where it came from. For me. It was like this push, and then being in the coaching industry, being in this world, stepping into podcasting, I've been exposed to so many different healing [00:15:00] modalities, and I find it absolutely fascinating.

[00:15:03] JON: Hmm, let's get into those. Uh, well before we get into those healing modalities, cuz I really wanna jump into that.

[00:15:08] COLLEEN: Yeah.

[00:15:10] JON: How have your, like do you have people that, um, gave you a hard time with that process of going outside of the box? I'm sure there's some type of support system or people that they're in, some type of, you know, the same field of as you.

Like, what kind of, like, if someone's in your position, right, and they want to go outside of the box, let's say we're talking to that person, um, what are they gonna experience? What did you experience and, and how did you handle that?

[00:15:37] COLLEEN: Ooh. Um, I'm definitely somebody that learns the hard way, so I'll say that out loud. Um, I think you have to be very clear with yourself as to why and what the purpose is, because you're gonna get a lot of pushback from. People within your industry and people outside of your industry. Right. Coaches can be a little threatened by me [00:16:00] because I'm walking in with credentials and a license and a lot of training, and I'm basically saying, what?

What up? I'm here, you know, and they're like, I'm just as qualified. I'm like, I'm not challenging your qualifications, but I am differently. So you get, you get some, you get some pushback there, and then within your field you get pushback because there's a lot of judgment on the people who have stepped outside the box.

So they're like, you're gonna go over there, you're gonna practice unethically, you're gonna charge ridiculous rates. . Um, you're gonna, you're gonna put yourself in really bad situations, and they're not wrong. Either of them are not wrong, right? Like, you have to protect yourself when you're stepping outta the box.

You need to make sure you have good rock solid contracts. You need to make sure you have two separate businesses. If you're still running this other business with your licensure or within your profession, you need to be very clear in your language and your marketing and your branding. The difference, the evolved therapist is my coaching and consulting company.

C Nelson Counseling is my private. [00:17:00] right? They're two separate entities. And so how I bill people, how I sign people up, how I charge people, it all is lined up. I learned the hard way cuz I had it all under c Nelson counseling for a while,

[00:17:12] JON: Mm.

[00:17:13] COLLEEN: right? So it's o it's opened me up to, um, again, grievances on my license that I have to defend, um, kind of shaky. boundaries in the sense that if a client has an issue, I, I typically have to like, give in. I can't hold that line because if they take me to court, I'm not sure what kind of, uh, standing they'd have given, given the fact that I, those things were messy. So it was like, if you're gonna step outta the box and you have a professional license or you have sort of professional degree, you really have to be extremely clear about it.

So that is my. Biggest advice is get some accounting financial people involved for just a hot minute and make sure your books are in order.

[00:17:58] JON: Mm. And it makes sense. And I [00:18:00] didn't think of getting pushback on both ends when, um, you're entering that world and people may be, um, you know, you're, you're hitting their ego because they're not the, that coaching realm. And you're like, well, I have what you didn't get, so, you know, I'm sorry, but you know, and then you're not better than me.

You're not better than me.

[00:18:20] COLLEEN: we're all very useful

[00:18:22] JON: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:23] COLLEEN: world for different reasons, but you, yeah, you gotta check your ego a little bit too, right? I, I walk into that room with extremely powerful and incredible people, and I think they're valuable in all different ways. But I did put, you know, 10 years in school, in 15 years in the business.

And there is, there are some pieces and things I can do that they can't, you know, it's like if we're, if we're in a re. , right? And um, somebody has a heart attack and there's a non-practicing doctor in the room. Even though I really am very good at C P R, I'm gonna let that non-practicing doctor go ahead and step [00:19:00] on in. Cuz they used to be a doctor. They have the, the experience. Maybe they don't have the license anymore. They don't, but I'm still gonna be like, oh yeah, I'm good at cpr. But you are. a doctor , right? Like, it's the same thing with, as a trauma therapist. It's like people can be trauma informed and come in and do some great work, but if things get to a level in which they feel out of their element, I'm, I'm going to be trained to step in.

[00:19:29] JON: I'm actually thinking of that scenario. You know, when stuff happens and your emotions are everywhere. I could just imagine you being like, Hey, do you wanna do this? I'm like, I'm right here. Do you wanna do this? Like, and this person's just like choking or like passed out and people are like, someone make a decision. yeah, I don't wanna step over. You know, he, they're the expert, you know, and the, and you know, so like I could see that being like in a dark, morbid way, being some very comical. And, and I know that, you know, I could, I can swear that's probably like on some show somewhere, you know, like [00:20:00] that's such a Seinfeld moment, right?

Where it's just like an everyday thing, but like you just is overdoing

[00:20:05] COLLEEN: neurosurgeon, but no, he's a throat. Mouth and doc doctor. No, but like

[00:20:09] JON: Rocks, paper, scissors,

[00:20:10] COLLEEN: Yeah, exactly. I mean, you're right. You're right. It's, or like family guy or something like that. That would be like a good cartoon.

[00:20:16] JON: Oh yeah. Don't get me started on that. That's horrible. A family guy. He, yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:21] COLLEEN: I know, right? Yeah.

[00:20:22] JON: Okay. So, um, I want to get into, um, I, I, uh, so I know someone listening is going to really appreciate getting into that, uh, those controversial ways of healing, especially with someone with a licensure and someone that step out of the box.

I'm curious to see what you've run into and what you've decided to either collaborate with or add into your own.

[00:20:44] COLLEEN: Yeah, so collaborating and, and adding into my own practice. Tentative, pending licensure, removal, . Keep that

[00:20:53] JON: Which is, which is actually very interesting because there's some really good stuff out there. Sounds, sounds like I'm, I'm not talking about drugs. [00:21:00] There's some really good practices out there and because you have a license, it's like a wall. Right. And I'm seeing that. Oh my God. Okay, continue.

[00:21:09] COLLEEN: I, I can jump over the wall if I pay a lot of money to get certified. So like for, for instance, cannabis assisted therapy, um, psilocybin assisted therapy, ayahuasca, like any plant medicine, as a licensed professional, I could incorporate that in with the right certification and training, I would have to go through all of the hoops and pay all the things to do those things as a licensed professional.

which makes sense if I'm going to, if I'm gonna operate from that space. Um, if I want to go on a retreat in Costa Rica, an onset retreat, have a day or a couple of days where my participants go to Saara, this plant medicine retreat center and experience their own plant medicine retreat, I can do that as a coach and be a great integration coach for them, but not as a licensed therapist.[00:22:00]

[00:22:00] JON: Mm,

[00:22:01] COLLEEN: Right.

[00:22:02] JON: like.

[00:22:03] COLLEEN: is a difference. So I can step into that world and be very clear that I'm not a licensed therapist walking them through therapeutic stuff, even though it's all therapeutic . But I can be an integration coach. It's all, I mean, it's, it's it's language, but it's, it's all legalities. Right? And, and so those are, like, plant medicine in particular is one that is getting better in the psych, psych psychology world.

Um, I do emdr, which isn't really con controversial. I'd say that's like a pretty well known, empirically based intervention. Happy to describe what that is

[00:22:38] JON: If you could cuz Yep.

[00:22:39] COLLEEN: Yeah, yeah. . . And so I'll do that in just one second. The one that I'm actually really getting into right now though, that I'll probably combine with EMDR is breath work.

[00:22:50] JON: Mm.

[00:22:51] COLLEEN: So, and not just like deep breathing, I'm talking about like somatic holotropic, like [00:23:00] cleansing breath work. Um, currently getting certified in that. Um, and I am loving it. It is, it is fascinating to me. So that is a big piece.

[00:23:13] JON: the breath, I've done a, I've, um, done something else that included breath work, exercise, and I was like on my back and I had to be on a pillow and I was just doing these deep, deep breaths for like a minute or something. Like, it seemed like a while, but I felt like I was high afterwards. But like your whole body is high.

I'm. What is this? This is insane. I freaked out for a little bit, but then I was just like, wow. And it's like all from breathing, you know, which, and there's, and I can only imagine, there's so many different techniques. So that's pretty cool that you want to get into that.

[00:23:53] COLLEEN: Oh, it's, I mean, it's, it's life changing. Like I, I had a, so in the certification we go [00:24:00] through the experience right of, of being led through it. And I had like a full body release and I'm like, whoa, I have done like a lot of therapeutic work on myself. And this is like, it unlocks things in your body that you didn't even know you needed to.

Um, it activates your vagus nerve, which is where your trauma is stored. There's all sorts of incredible things that are happening. Um, so that is, is definitely something I'm extremely interested in. Um, And then if you get into the sex and intimacy world, tantric, you know, healing is, is really powerful. Um, pelvic floor therapy, uh, yi healing, there's a lot of things where again, like definitely aren't doing any of that as a licensed professional, but you can be a certified, trained professional, uh, in doing some of those practices.

And, um, so there's all those pieces that's working with the. Emdr, you can only do if you are a licensed professional. [00:25:00] It's eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, and it's one of the most empirically based trauma treatments out there. It's extremely simple and highly effective. Basically, when you go to sleep at night, you can, you go into various stages.

One of the stages is rem. . All right. Your eyes move back and forth. And a simplified version is what's happening is your brain is moving information from the sensory part of your brain up to your frontal cortex and releasing what it needs to release and storing what it needs to store. If you've ever seen, um, that movie, oh my gosh.

Inside out

[00:25:41] JON: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.

[00:25:43] COLLEEN: You know how like she's sleeping and they're like getting rid of like the memories and they're like, we'll, keep this one and then. That's basically what's happening in REM sleep. So what happens when you experience a traumatic event to your body? When your body experiences something, it views as a threat to our [00:26:00] survival.

Your brain stores it as a sensory experience so that you remember it in your body, not just as information, right? So a lot of times those experiences aren't accurate. We're not actually needing to be afraid of the purple chair. . It's just the purple chair was where our mom sat when she yelled at us one day when we were four, and now we're scared of the purple chair.

[00:26:24] JON: Wow.

[00:26:25] COLLEEN: Simple thing, right? So emdr, either you use a light bar that moves your eyes back and forth, you follow the light bar, auditory sound on either Zen or my personal favorite. I call them the buzzies. They're tactile sensors where they buzz back and forth and you can close your eyes and like vision This, what it does is it basically, reactivates the REM cycle and helps you consciously bring that memory from your hi brain, pull it up to your frontal cortex, release the sensation, and store the information.

And then literally after [00:27:00] one, maybe two sessions, you no longer are triggered by that purple chair.

[00:27:03] JON: Wow. That's a quick turn.

[00:27:06] COLLEEN: very quick. It's highly affected the veterans refugees first responders, um, single event. It's very quick. Phobias, very quick, complex. P T S D. We're looking at layers. There's disassociation and attachment stuff going on, so that's where breath work, somatic experiencing, some of the other tools come into play.

[00:27:27] JON: Hmm. Would you say that really traumatic upbringing. with parental feuds could be reversed using this technique. Cuz I've, I've, I've, I just, I know a couple people , um, in personal life and Yeah. everybody has a perfect family. What are you talking about, John? Um, so I, so I could see as a kid growing up, right, your parents were [00:28:00] constantly fighting, whether it be verbal, physical, and maybe you, Internalize and it's, I, and you'll appreciate this, I've seen it where it's subconsciously you repeat what your parents do and even if you know it's horrible and you're running away from it, you're, you're, you know, what you're running towards is the same thing cuz you just, it's the only math, you know?

Um, so this stuff would help with that pretty much.

[00:28:25] COLLEEN: Yes, it is. It is extremely effective and, um, I, I use it in my practice all the time. It is also something that, you know, it's an extra certification. There's layers to it, there's components to it that can make it more challenging. People can use it in addiction. Chil, you can use it with children.

It's very effective with children. Um, there's a whole organization that goes in after natural disasters and does EMDR on like a. Whole group of people in order to help reset. It's, it's powerful stuff. Um, literally [00:29:00] the, uh, website you should go to is emdria.org. Emdr i.org. And that's like the main hub for all emdr.

And you can just read about it, look at it, check it out. Um, there's so much information about it. Stay off of YouTube. You're gonna go on YouTube and people are gonna be doing EMDR on themselves. You're gonna be like, what is. Uh, uh, you can watch it if you want, but just understand that's not what happens in a clinical setting.

And, uh, it's just, it's a, it's a really amazing treatment protocol and it's not the be all, end all. There's lots of other components that need to be addressed, but it is, it is life changing for many people.

[00:29:39] JON: Wow. You know what? Uh, I would say random thought, but not really. Um, you know how people have, whether it's a suicide or traumatic death. And then there's stories of people saying before they go on, they have to go through therapy, spiritual therapy. I could see you and the, you know, and, and the [00:30:00] beyond. You know, or you, that was you, and you're like, all right, now I'm gonna be a, a living person.

I'm gonna do some, some similar stuff. You know, I got some, you know, I could see you being that

[00:30:09] COLLEEN: Yes. I incarnated in this one and I'm like, what is happening? Um, but yes, a spiritual mentor guide. I, I, of course do my own like, energetic healing. I have someone that does, uh, I don't even know what to explain what she does, but she basically taps in and like talks to my guides and heals whatever needs to be healed energetically and talks about past lives and, um, me and my soul family.

And I have, I've experienced quite a lot of trauma in past lives, which I can just feel in my body and know to be true. Also, if you follow any astrology myself, note is in Scorp. It's like a whole thing. Um, let's just say I was probably burned at the stake multiple

times. You know,

[00:30:54] JON: my God.

[00:30:55] COLLEEN: there's probably lots of bad things that happened.

Trauma's my world. I mean, since I was a little kid, I was like, [00:31:00] yeah, this is home. I know this world. This isn't scary. Like it's horrible still, but it's like, it feels like home versus like fun, play, pleasure, lightheartedness, peace that feels.

[00:31:12] JON: Mm.

[00:31:13] COLLEEN: was not highly traumatic. It was relatively healthy and normal, and yet I am drawn towards the darkness and the shadow cuz it feels like home.

So there's a lot of past life stuff and energetic stuff I've done to understand that, um, as switching concepts. But I, I swear it's relevant. It connects.

[00:31:34] JON: Yeah, let's.

[00:31:36] COLLEEN: There's this feeling of not belong. when you experience life differently than other people. Right. Like and you described at the beginning, like, I just noticed in myself that I could, I could feel things before they happen, dream things before they happen.

And there's like this feeling of not belonging when that occurs. Like we're separated from the herd and a wolf pack. [00:32:00] There's multiple different roles, right? We know the alpha, the beta, the, the. I like the followers. Well, there's one that's not talked about very often, and that's the sigma. So the sigma wolf actually surrounds the pack and looks for coyotes and predators, and then informs the alpha and then returns to its post.

So the Sigma's job is to see things before they happen. and to inform the community of them. And it's a very lonely position, and they typically get along only with other sigmas and potentially some alphas, but the rest of the population is extremely threatened by their presence or uncomfortable or just offput.

Because you know, you watch a Sigma wolf come up to you and you're a little pup, you're like, what is this? What's this dude doing? Right? He's badass. But also, what's, what's wrong with you? Are you okay? He's like, I'm, I'm looking for eagles. are you, you play, I'm looking for eagles, right? Like, so it's a very different, it's a [00:33:00] different way to live in the world.

And that was so validating for me when I was like, oh, that's it. Right? Like I'm a mirror for people. I show them truth. I show them the darkness and the light, but I'm very uncomfortable to be around. If you wanna be superficial

[00:33:13] JON: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:14] COLLEEN: it's small talk will never happen with me. And you literally stand next to me and you're like, oh. right? Like I have to be real with her. This is just a presence I have. And so when I identify as a Sigma, it's like, oh, that's my home. This is where I belong. So I say this because I think anybody who's listening to this podcast, probably yourself included, might have that feeling and to just know there's a word for it can be healing in itself.

[00:33:41] JON: That's powerful. Sigma it remind it. It does sound like it's part of like a college, uh,

[00:33:47] COLLEEN: It.

[00:33:48] JON: like a, I forgot what we call it. Like, you know, like fraternity. There you go. Um, and it, it, you painted it very well. I was there, I was watching the, uh, the [00:34:00] wolf just for eagles. And um, I think there's a lot of us.

Listening on this show right now that are Sigmas and they'll appreciate it. We appreciate it. Um, you know, odd people unites No. You know,

[00:34:18] COLLEEN: Real?

[00:34:19] JON: but it's, it's, it's interesting how you say that because when you're someone that goes deep, like deep dive into just, um, The underlying cause of things are and the truth of the matter, right?

Instead of like, oh, that's interesting, and then moving on. I'm usually like, I'm gonna go figure out what that is because that, you know, like that shouldn't happen. Like what is going on. Um, and yeah, it can get definitely very awkward around people that just want to talk about very superficial stuff. And I can tell you from personal experience where I would be the one that would just kind of watch the conversation and I wouldn't.[00:35:00]

you know, people would think you're quiet. And it's not that I'm quiet, I'm just like, I don't care. , and I see what you're doing and I, I see the conversation and I see the background stuff going on as well. Right. The deeper conversation where you have the ego toss and all that. Um, so thanks for bringing that up.

That was definitely very, Um, that's pretty cool. Uh, I think I, we found another tattoo for you as a, uh, for a, a Sigma Wolf. Just a, just throwing it out there. Just throwing it out there. You're making me wanna get that, you

[00:35:35] COLLEEN: I know, right? I. Agreed. It's the, the coach that I hired actually. Um, it's hard for me to find people cuz I want someone that can match my power. The coach I hired, her name's, uh, Kiara, she's the bold self on Instagram. She has an entire program literally called Sigma.

[00:35:53] JON: Wow.

[00:35:55] COLLEEN: and um, that's actually what appeal.

I, I hadn't heard a lot of people talk about the Sigma [00:36:00] and when I saw that I was one of her programs, I was like, bing here.

[00:36:04] JON: Wow.

[00:36:05] COLLEEN: you are. It's and it's true. It's true. She's one of the few people who can match me in power and hold me to my own accountability. It's pretty cool to, to witness and see.

[00:36:15] JON: Yeah, and I, I think I know you, what you're talking about when you meet somebody, um, there's this weird interface that happens where you instantly know that you're dominating the conversation.

[00:36:28] COLLEEN: Yeah,

[00:36:28] JON: being potentially dominated or you're at the same . Some people want that. Um, or you're on the, uh, the same level playing field and you are both cool. You're both relaxed. Like, I, I see you, I respect you, I'm curious about you. And that's how I try to approach it, right? I see you, I respect you and I'm curious about you because I want to know someone that's very similar to me. You're more interesting to me cuz you don't, you're not on either side. We're we're, we're meeting in the middle and I don't know why.

And that's within like the first. couple seconds, which is [00:37:00] pretty cool. Which is, so, I, I iden I do identify what you're saying when you like, match my power. Right.

[00:37:05] COLLEEN: Yes, exactly.

[00:37:06] JON: Cool. Well, thank you so much for breaking that down. It's very interesting, the breath between the breath work between, um, just going out of the box and, uh, you said, you mentioned the breath work.

What else did you mention? I, I can't, what what was it? It was, uh, it was the acronym. It was the acronym with the eye movement.

[00:37:25] COLLEEN: E mdr.

[00:37:26] JON: E emdr. Okay, cool. Cool. Um, we'll have some information in the show notes for that. I'm excited to share that and to dive into it myself, um, so that, so that everybody can kind of meet you and connect with you as we peak their curiosity.

Um, what are you doing now and, and how can people find you?

[00:37:45] COLLEEN: Yeah, so you can find me mainly on Instagram. I did start a TikTok, so please go check that out and follow me. I think I have four followers, so excited. But it's, it's the evolved therapist. [00:38:00] Um, I also have a YouTube channel that has my podcast and videos and such. I talk a lot about, on my first season, life is a divorced mom.

Second season is about the shadow archetypes, and I have people on and we talk about those type of things. But I would say if you wanna connect with me, you send me a DM on Instagram. It's the best way to connect with me, honestly. And I'm constantly running programs. I've got a whole vault full of masterclass.

And, um, I'm taking a group of women to Greece in June for a women's retreat. So there's, I'm doing stuff always and constantly.

[00:38:36] JON: That's awesome. Grease looks like it would be amazing. I'm looking forward to seeing those photos.

[00:38:44] COLLEEN: Oh, it's gonna be, I can't wait. Like literally just a, a waking up and taking a picture is like, I'm setting up a whole photo shoot. It's so you, it's gonna be so amazing.

[00:38:52] JON: You can do the Corona photo

[00:38:56] COLLEEN: probably won't drink Corona in, in, uh, Greece, but maybe [00:39:00] like a beautiful martini or like some sort of like tropical glass or something.

I don't know.

[00:39:05] JON: Yeah. Something that's like native to them. Yeah. I'm using it as an analogy. I don't even drink Corona like that. I'm more of a cider person if I go there. Um, but Okay. Cool. Cool. Nice. Well, thanks again for coming on. I'm very happy that we did this and um, more to come. I'm sure

[00:39:22] COLLEEN: Yes. Thanks.