JR Harris' Solo Trek Across Baffin Island

Speaker 1

[00.00.00]

I'm going to be honest with you. When I contacted, you know, Parks Canada and asked them for information about you, we talked and they sent me this, this brochure of information, and it was all in negative terms. And I was like, nobody comes up here. You got polar bears, you've got bad weather. You got to really know what you're doing. There's not a lot of search and rescue. You better be. You better have your stuff together. And you know, I've always been a sucker for that kind of language for, you know, we dare you to come here.

Speaker 2

[00.00.42]

Hello, and welcome to one off Travel Stories. I'm your host, Andrew Tawaststjerna journey here. Each episode, I will chat with someone about one of their favorite travel stories, that one story they've told countless times to friends and family around the dinner table. We'll hear captivating and sometimes unbelievable travel tales and learn a little bit about the locations where they happen.

Speaker 1

[00.01.04]

In this episode we'll chat with JR. Harris Jr has been exploring and backpacking long distances for more than 60 years. Consequently, he has been to some of the most remote and inhospitable wilderness areas in the world. Unsupported and mostly alone, he loves to solo trek. He's written and spoken about his experiences in a variety of places. In particular, though he wrote a book, Way Out There Adventures of a Wilderness Trekker. It's actually how I found JR. I stumbled across his book, picked it up, and was absolutely captivated by it. So definitely check, check it out. He is also on the board of directors of the 120 year old Explorers Club. He was the subject of a documentary, uh, Born Curious, which you can check out online, and he founded and is president of J. RH marketing Services, which he started in 1975 75 as a research and insights consulting firm in the US. So he's he's done a lot. If you want to find out more about J.R.. Check out J.R. in the wilderness. Com I'm going to link a lot of the things that I mentioned on my website as well. With all that said, JR is here to tell us one of his stories. So JR is going to tell us about his trek across Baffin Island. Baffin

Speaker 2

[00.02.29]

Island is in Canada. It's a remote place. It's sort of between Greenland and mainland Canada, predominantly above the Arctic Circle. It's a place where very few people go, let alone Canadians. Actually, being Canadian, I know very few people who've been to Baffin Island as well. Um, it's a bit of an inhospitable place as far as weather goes. There's polar bears. There's some other stuff we'll hear about. He wrote about this in his book, uh, which is how I came across this story. And I remember reading it and literally giving getting goosebumps at some of the parts. Um which uh J.R is going to go through today. So I uh I hope you enjoy.

Speaker 1

[00.03.16]

Hey jr. Hey how you doing? I'm good.

Speaker 2

[00.03.19]

Thanks I'm good. Thanks. Welcome to the podcast,

Speaker 1

[00.03.21]

dad. Thanks a lot. Really. Uh, interested to do this? I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 2

[00.03.26]

Me too. It's really exciting to have you here, um, to talk through one of your stories, which, actually, we haven't had a lot of wilderness stories. I don't think we've had any to date, so double excited for that, because I think it's it's a really cool way, a really interesting way to travel and see new places.

Speaker 1

[00.03.45]

Well, you know, I'll back you up on that. I mean, I'm born and raised in New York City and I spent many years, you know, just, uh, over the course of many years traveling in wilderness. So, uh, quite a contrast if I, uh, if I do say so myself. But I love it. I love that just juxtaposition about you, I guess, which is, you know, New York, big city, high, highly populated, uh, never sleeps as as everyone hears. And then your travel, which is solo travel out,

Speaker 2

[00.04.22]

out in the wilderness, the biggest expanses. Um, sometimes, I'm sure the quietest places, you know. How do you. How do you think about that?

Speaker 1

[00.04.32]

Well, it's nice, you know, I feel a sense of balance. You know, I'm. I feel as though I'm equally at home, uh, in the streets of New York City, where I grew up, as I am, uh, you know, in the middle of nowhere, uh, heading deeper into nowhere, usually by myself, uh, when you kind of merge the two experiences together. Uh, it has a very interesting, uh, uh, impact on your personality and your lifestyle and your worldview, etc.. So, uh, I feel that I'm, I'm very fortunate to have been exposed to both of these, uh, uh, lifestyles and environments.

Speaker 2

[00.05.20]

Definitely. Are you, um, I usually ask, you know, where are you right now? Are you home?

Speaker 1

[00.05.26]

I'm at home right now. Yes, I'm in New York. I'm a New Yorker You get about it.

Speaker 2

[00.05.33]

Where? Where in New York, uh, have you have you moved around your whole life? You've been based in one of the boroughs. Where? Whereabouts?

Speaker 1

[00.05.40]

I live in Queens, Queens. Um, I, I spend most of my time here in Queens, but I've also lived in, uh, Manhattan. I lived in an actually in Staten Island, which is part of New York City for, for a while, but mostly it's, uh, out here in Queens. Nice. The the place that most visitors, uh, are, are probably familiar with because both New York City airports are in Queens. So it's the first place that a New York City visitor, if you fly in, will come into Queens, for

Speaker 2

[00.06.13]

better or for worse. For those airports. But. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 1

[00.06.17]

Um, I, you know, I had to ask. I'm

Speaker 2

[00.06.20]

just curious to me, have you found, you know, I, I've read through your through your book way out there, um, which, uh, I've heard, um, has been ranked as a top 50 trekking book. So congratulations. Thank you. Congratulations for that. And um, do you find, you know, do you have that same curiosity exploring New York City? Like, it's not lost on me that you can walk around and find new things around the city every time you go outside?

Speaker 1

[00.06.48]

Totally true. You know, you would think that somebody who's lived here, you know, all his life would know, you know, pretty much everything about the city. But New York is not that kind of town. You know, New York is, uh, is very vibrant, very dynamic. And you know what you may see here this week, next week, it may be gone. And something next week that's not here now. Uh, will be out there to, uh, to attract your attention. I, uh, I'd love to, uh, move around. I'm the kind of guy, you know, growing up here in New York City. Like, if I wanted to, let's say, go to a movie at midnight, I need to know that I have my choice of movies. And when the movie is over or three in the morning, and I feel like I want a little something to eat, I don't want to know that there's a restaurant open. I want to my choice of food. And New York is one of those places, one of the few places where you can do that. So I take advantage of the city 24 hours a day. I used to drive a taxi here, a yellow cab, for two years in New York. Wow. So, uh. Yeah, I'm a New Yorker.

Speaker 2

[00.07.59]

God, I feel you there. I love that, I love that about New York. Um, you really do. You really just can't find something new every time. And, you know, um, I also watched the amazing little documentary, uh, about you called Born Curious. And it doesn't surprise me at all that that's what you like to do. Um, and that you like to get out there in the wilderness and explore the world? Um,

Speaker 1

[00.08.23]

absolutely. I, uh, I've been a member of the Explorers Club, uh, for 31 years. Uh, and I'm now sitting on the board of directors of that club, and I'm also chair of the club's diversity, equity and inclusion committee. Um, but most of all, I'm just a a long distance explorer trekker, and I'm driven by curiosity to see what's out there in the world and especially the natural world. Um, I basically go alone, mostly because there aren't a lot of people in New York City that want to go to a place like Baffin Island or somewhere. So I'm happy to go alone. And, um. I've done it over 60 times. I have more than 60 wow, checks that are at least two weeks long. And you know, if anybody wants to see what they are. I have a website called J.R. in the wilderness.com, and it's got all the information and a lot of nice photos as well.

Speaker 2

[00.09.30]

Um, you're offering me a lovely segue, but I do want to ask for the people out there who don't know. Can you tell what's the Explorers Club?

Speaker 1

[00.09.39]

So the Explorers Club, as you might guess, is a club for explorers. It's a, uh, it's it's an old. It's been around since 1904. Yeah. And the original members were, uh, those who are, uh, essentially Arctic explorers back in the day, the turn of the 19th into the 20th century, uh, bunch of wealthy newspaper, um, magnates and magnates and and explorers got together and formed a, club society where they share the adventures that they've had and and the things they've discovered and and so forth. And clubs still going, going strong. New York City is where the headquarters is, and it's got about it's got over 30 chapters around the world and about 3000 members.

Speaker 2

[00.10.34]

Awesome. That's something for me to aspire to after after learning about it. Check it out. Um. All right. Well, as you know, uh, one off travel stories, this podcast is about, you know, those, those stories that sort of touched, maybe changed you in a certain way. The long form stories that, uh, you know, the ones that you tell over dinner, maybe at a bar over and over again. So, um, with that, can you give us a little bit of context, uh, on the story you're about to tell? You know, what year is it? Uh, where where are we going? And, uh why is most importantly, why why are you heading there?

Speaker 1

[00.11.15]

All right. Sam, I'm taking you back to the mid 1980s. Right. So. And we're heading north from New York, up into Canada to Baffin Island. A Baffin Island is the fifth largest island in the world, although a lot of people never even heard of Baffin Island. These people that I talk to. Yeah. Um, but the island is huge. It's in, uh, the eastern part of Canada. And when I went up there, uh, it was part of the Canadian Northwest Territories. Yeah. Uh, which is no longer is it's now part of Nunavut, the, uh, the territory given to the indigenous people living there. But when I was there, it was still part of Northwest Territories. And there is a national park there called IDoc, which means the land that never freezes. And back in the day, that was the northernmost national park in all of the western Western Hemisphere and all of North America. And very, very few people go there. Because it's very, very isolated and expensive to get there. More people go to Yellowstone National Park in one day than go to a national park in a whole year. So, uh, you won't see a whole lot of people there on this huge, huge island. Uh, which is very sparsely populated as well. But I wanted to go up there and there's a trail that goes through this national park that crosses Baffin Island. And I wanted to to check it out and, uh, apply, you know, my wilderness, uh, experience as well as my curiosity to see what it would be like. And it was one of the reason I went there on either side, on either end of this trail is a community of of local indigenous people. And with people mostly. And, uh, I'm very interested in people who live in remote areas around the world. That's where most of my expeditions go. And so, uh, apart from or in addition to wanting to hike across this vast islands, I wanted to spend some time on either end with the people who lived there so I could get a sense of what their culture is like, their traditions, their history, what they eat for breakfast, and things like that.

Speaker 2

[00.14.00]

So it's not just your sense of curiosity and adventure. It sounds like you've got a bit of anthropology in your blood as

Speaker 1

[00.14.06]

well. I do, I have a I have a degree in psychology and, uh, you know, compare that with, you know, my insatiable curiosity and my love of adventure. Uh, and just the, the notion that you never get too old to learn something. And that experience being the best teacher, uh, probably a pretty good student, because I'm still out there trying to, uh, pick up some knowledge, you know,

Speaker 2

[00.14.36]

as I guess listeners know. And, you know, I'm from Canada, so I know about Baffin Island. I can tell you, I, I would be surprised if more than 1% of the Canadian population has been, has been up there because, you know, it's it's way out there. It's, uh, you know,

Speaker 1

[00.14.53]

it should be a book called. Well,

Speaker 2

[00.14.56]

it's a good name.

Speaker 1

[00.14.57]

It is way out. It's tough to

Speaker 2

[00.14.59]

get up there. I think it's still quite difficult to get up there, not, you know, let alone in the 80s. Um, when you, when you think about new places to go, take me through your. I know how it happens for me a lot of the times, but did you know about Baffin Island? Were you looking at a map going, hmm, like, how did you choose? How do you choose places to visit, I guess is the other than the two the two things that you told me about visiting new cultures?

Speaker 1

[00.15.24]

Well, for one thing, I. I'm interested in going any place just because I haven't been there before.

Speaker 2

[00.15.33]

Yeah. So

Speaker 1

[00.15.35]

that would be a an attraction also. Um. Because few people go there because it was the northernmost national park. And but you know what? I'm going to be honest with you, when I contacted, you know, Parks Canada and asked them for information about you, we talked and they sent me this, this brochure of information, and it was all in negative terms. And I was like, nobody comes up here. You got polar bears, you've got bad weather. You got to really know what you're doing. There's not a lot of search and rescue. You better be. You better have your stuff together. And, you know, I've always been a sucker for that kind of language for, you know, we dare you to come here. So when I read that, you know, there was like a ten page, um, brochure or pamphlet about about safety from polar bears, you know, and things like that. And I was like, oh, I gotta go there now. Just so you know, I mean, in terms of context now, when I did that. I was already an experienced guy, had already been out there. I was like in my mid 40s, so I wasn't I wasn't a kid, uh, I'm 80 years old now and I'm still trekking. But yeah, back then, you know. But that's what it was. You know, all of this, this, this language about don't come here unless you really know what you're doing. You know, that's why I went. I mean, that's one big reason

Speaker 2

[00.17.21]

I love it, I

Speaker 1

[00.17.22]

love it well, before. Before I

Speaker 2

[00.17.25]

prime you to say to to get like start, start the journey here for us. Um, how do you, how do you typically prepare like, you know, you talked about the cold obviously the, the polar bears, which. Yeah, that's a real threat. Um, among all the other things, like how do you prepare for or how did you prepare for this trip?

Speaker 1

[00.17.43]

Well, you know, the the preparation is the most important part of the trip. You know, the preparation is anticipating everything that you can encounter there and having a response for it before you even leave home. And so it involves, uh, doing research and learning what's what the weather is going to be like, what the conditions are like, uh, what the terrain is like, how long it's going to take to do it, and therefore how much food you should bring, what kind of clothing you should bring. I, I, I enjoy the planning phase almost as much as I enjoy the actual trip. The trip is really nothing more than the end, the ultimate end of the tracking phase. To see if you're if you're planning was, uh, was sufficient. And if you can come back, you know, ideally with all your body parts. Uh, and so, yeah, that's what I did. It takes for a trip like that. It took me a couple of months because back then, you know, there was no. There was no GPS. There was no internet. There was no nothing. You know, I used to have to put letters in the mail, snail mail up there to to get maps to get information from the national park. Uh, but I do enjoy the preparation because it it stokes my excitement about the trip that's going to come up. And and if I plan it right, I feel very confident when I go, even though I'm going alone. Uh, that I've, I've anticipated just about everything that could happen. I have a kind of a plan, uh, that I can, I can go to in, in, in bad situation and, uh, and and I'm ready to go.

Speaker 2

[00.19.36]

Nice. That's, uh, to that point then. Um, yeah. Take us, take us to, uh, take us to Baffin Island.

Speaker 1

[00.19.44]

So now Baffin Island, this trip actually the theme of it turned out to be about fear. And I had, you know, with some, you know, some thoughts about fear like everybody else does who goes in wilderness, but because, you know, I wasn't a kid anymore and had been through, you know, tough situations. Uh, fear doesn't intimidate me. Or at least it didn't back then. And so I took this trip, I, I left New York City, I flew up to, uh, Montreal, spent the night in Montreal. I took a flight the next day to Iqaluit, which is on Baffin Island, now the capital of Nunavut, and it was called Frobisher Bay back in the day. And, uh, I transferred, uh, a plane from Iqaluit. And I flew to this little hamlet called Broughton Island. Broughton Island is a tiny island off the east coast of Baffin Island, but it has a community there, also called Broughton Island. Uh, and it has an airport there. And from there you can arrange to get a boat to take you from Broughton Island across the bay to to Baffin Island, where the actual trek started. Mhm. So, uh, I landed in, uh, Broughton Island, which now is called kittiwake. It's no longer even called, uh, Broughton Island. Um, yeah. And and everybody was within ten minutes of me getting there. Everybody in town knew I was there and everybody in town knew where I was coming from. They don't get a lot of visitors there.

Speaker 2

[00.21.37]

Uh, how big is town, by the way? How many people are we talking?

Speaker 1

[00.21.41]

Uh, we're talking about. I think it was 400. Okay.

Speaker 2

[00.21.47]

Yeah. I mean, small town, but you're still, as I

Speaker 1

[00.21.50]

said, a small town. I mean, I did. I live here in New York. It was like 400 people in the supermarket, you know. So, uh. And the place is full of kids, you know, they're running around. It was in the summer. The sun never goes down. And they'll follow me around everywhere I go. And the people there were very, very curious about me, you know, because they don't get a lot of people from New York City, and everybody wants to know what it was like. And also because, I mean, you can't really see me now. But for those who may be listening, I happen to be African American. And people were curious about that, you know, what's life like? And yeah, but it was mostly about, you know, they were just curious about me as I was about them. And so spending a couple of days, uh, just hanging out and talking to the

Speaker 2

[00.22.39]

locals, uh, it was it was really fun. Now, there was an issue there where that year, the ice that usually, uh, fills the bay, the icebergs, uh, the were very slow to melt. And I was there like at the end of August in the almost the end of the summer. And it was still a lot of icebergs there. And they had to arrange for a family with a boat to to take me from Kiki to Jack or Brown Island all the way to Baffin Island. Uh, avoiding a lot of these, uh, icebergs and floating ice pack. Also, because this ice, they were there were polar bears there, right. And and in fact, while I was there, three polar bears had come actually into the town, uh, to the, to the garbage dump. And so they were concerned the people there were concerned about me walking across this huge island where there might be, uh, you know, there might be polar bears because of the the slow melting of the ice. Yeah, I bet. So, uh, what they wanted to do was to have a guy accompany me for the first. You know, once I got to Baffin Island to accompany me for the first day, this guy would be armed, you know, and have a shotgun or some kind of weapon. Because they were telling me that with polar bears. Their favorite food is seal, and they would rather stay near the coast where they could find a seal. Sort of. The thought was that if I could get within 10 or 15 miles of the coast, if I can get that far inland, then the the notion of of a polar bear encounter would be very unlikely. Yeah. So unfortunately, I didn't have the money to pay for this guy to, uh, to walk with me. Right.

Speaker 1

[00.24.46]

And then you have to send a boat to pick him up the next day, and I'd have to pay for that. Uh, so I said, nah, you know, just drop me off on Baffin Island on the coast, and I'll walk you from there. Uh, on my own. But, uh, it was, uh, it was interesting.

Speaker 2

[00.25.05]

I was going to say you mentioned fear at the beginning. Like looking. I mean, in hindsight, does that seem foolhardy or. You had been on enough tracks. You kind of had to feel, I guess, for the wilderness, the the animals, the behavior that you were. You were confident. Where does that that land. So. It's, you know, it's one thing to be fearful, you know, and fear can actually be a positive. You know, if you if you're willing to learn from it. Now, uh, back in the day then I, I had had my share of tough situations, uh, you know, and I wasn't really that intimidated by fear. I had a healthy respect for it. Yeah. Uh, but it wasn't. I wasn't afraid to be afraid. And, uh, so I, I started out, I was totally willing to walk by myself, uh, even though they were, there was some concern, you know, because they were like, man, but you're from New York City. You know, you're going to be up here with all these polar bears. Ah, I was good with that. I, I believe that that there are different types of fear. I've given fear a lot of thought. Uh, there are things you can learn from fear, etc., etc. although, of course, the bottom line is nobody likes to be afraid. Including me. You know, all things considered, I'd rather not be afraid. So on this trip, though, I'm starting out and and I was feeling the fear. I started walking inland and it seemed like every hundred meters I would turn around and look behind me, just to make sure that I wasn't being stalked by a bear. Um, I was unarmed, except for a can of of bear spray. Okay. And I didn't really that didn't really give me a lot of self-confidence, you know, in terms of of defending myself wasn't an attack because I didn't think that the spray was going to do much good. Yeah. But, uh, that's what I had, you know, and so, uh, I started walking, turning around again, you know, every two minutes and, and wondering, you know, what would happen if I saw a bear because I there was nothing I could really do. Uh, a polar bear, unlike a grizzly bear or black bear or brown bear. A polar bear is really the only bear that will purposely stalk the person. You know, I've seen grizzlies dozens of times. You know, they mostly running away when you see them. Uh, but a polar bear, uh, a polar bear is different. And I knew that. And so, uh, I'm walking in and they had these little, uh, shelter huts. For the Rangers Park rangers to stay in when they're making their patrol across the island. Yeah, and because I was it was so late in the summer, and I was told that that I would be the last person trying to walk across, uh, and that I would probably not going to see anybody else the entire distance, which is, uh, like

Speaker 1

[00.28.14]

60 miles. Um, that I should I should stay in the shelter when I get there because there's two way radio, and I should try to contact park officials at every one of these shelters so they would know how my progress was going. They would they would be able to check and see how far I was getting. None of them worked. So and then I quickly learned, you know, that it wasn't just about polar bears. On my second day in, as I was walking through the valley, um, I stepped in a patch of quicksand. Oh, wow. Now, I had heard of quicksand. I had never seen it. I didn't know anything about it except what I saw in the movies. But yeah, I was stuck my foot in and. And when I tried to pick it up. It just kind of sucked it down. And I was going, what's going on here? And I should have known because when I looked around, there were no rocks. There was just like a flat area which I thought was just kind of muddy. Yeah, but it's tough walking up there. And this would have been a lot easier because it was flat and I just started walking across, and then I got stuck in both feet. Ooh. Uh, luckily I it was right at the beginning there, and I turned around and I lunged back to where I had come from, and I was able to get on solid soil. And then I rolled out and I got back out. So the whole thing took, you know, a half a minute or so. But now my heart is pounding. You know, I'm like, oh my God, you know, it's it's you have to watch where you're going. And realizing that your whole life can change in a matter of seconds and that it wasn't just polar bears and bad weather and other things that I had to look out for, you know, I had to keep, uh, I had to stay in the present tense and, and, and maintain my vigilance because, uh, you know, there's a lot that can happen out here, and and that caused me to realize it.

Speaker 2

[00.30.32]

So. Yeah, it's not, you know, you can't be hyper focused on polar bears. You got lots of other stuff you need to deal with, too.

Speaker 1

[00.30.39]

Yeah, absolutely. And and, you know, the weather turned, you know, crazy with cold and snow and wind. Uh, which I was expecting from the Arctic, even though it was still in the summertime. Um, but then a couple of days later, uh, came, you know, kind of the the ultimate, uh, test or trial, you know, of getting through on this route

Speaker 2

[00.31.07]

because the weather and the polar bears and the quicksand wasn't enough.

Speaker 1

[00.31.10]

Wasn't enough, you know, and now, you know, the the whole trip was, you know, like, I think it was eight days. 8 or 9 days. Okay. And by the by the, you know, fourth or fifth day, I'm figuring, okay, I got it. Yeah. You know, I'm used to it now I'm trail tough is what I call it. I'm trail tough. I'm used to hiking. I'm used to bad weather. I'm used to being wet and tired and so forth and so on. Everything is cool. Yeah, and and then I got to this. This place. Where, uh, I needed to. I needed to continue going across it. There's a river they're called. There's a lake. They're called Summit Lake. Okay. And and Summit Lake, uh, empties out into a river that flows to the coast. Yeah. And I was walking along the southern end of that lake. Uh, but then at the end where the lake, uh, the outflow of the lake is through a gorge. Yeah. And I had to cross to the other side. And the situation was this, there was a, a, a rusty cable connecting one side to the other. And attached to the cable was a pulley. Okay. And attached to a pulley was a chair, a a rickety wooden slat thing. I don't know how long it been there. The cable was rusted out. It was like an inch thick and the whole thing was swaying in this wind and the roaring water rushing through the gorge. Uh, and I was like, wait a minute, man. I'm picturing, like a

Speaker 2

[00.32.56]

DIY gorge crossing here. That's what it sounds like.

Speaker 1

[00.33.00]

I mean, I knew from the map that I had to get across, you know, I knew from my planning that there was a chair there. I had no idea it was going to be like this rickety old, you know, I don't know when the last person was that I even tried to get across this thing. How

Speaker 2

[00.33.16]

big is this gorge? How big are we talking?

Speaker 1

[00.33.19]

Uh, I'm, I'm going to say like, 50ft across and. Okay. And maybe as deep or a little bit deeper. But it was it was cloudy and it had it had been snowing, I couldn't really see the water, you know, I could certainly hear it. Yeah, and I could barely see the other side of the gorge. I could see a cable going out into the into the fog. Yeah, I knew from a map where it was going, but I couldn't really see it. And I was scared, you know, and I was really scared. And I said, oh, man, this is different. You know, this is something. Now understand? There's no way to turn around and go back.

Speaker 2

[00.33.59]

Yeah. I was going to say you're like five, six days in,

Speaker 1

[00.34.02]

I'm in. I have to go this way. There was nobody there. And you know, the irony of this is that had it been not just me, even if it had been one other person, then getting across the chairlift thing might not have been so bad. Because what you would do is one guy would get in a chair, hold himself across on a pulley, the other guy would be pulling in on his end, get the guy to the other side. Now you have some one guy on either side. You put a backpack strapped in a chair, pull it across, keep doing it. All the gear is across, right? Last guy gets in a chair and the two guys, they pull each other until he gets across.

Speaker 2

[00.34.46]

I don't even think of your gear. I hadn't even, you know, I was just picturing the gawd in my mind. But you're right. You've got you've got your backpack. I got a huge backpack. I got ten days of food there, you know, and all my gear, all my clothing, everything. Yeah. And it was heavy because I'm alone. There's no way to share the weight with with other people. So. So now I have to get across me and the gear at the same time. And I looked at it and I looked at it and I was thinking bad thoughts. Yeah. And, uh, but, you know, I, I had enough experience to say to myself, don't panic. You know, um, it's a situation you have to face. And theoretically, it's possible to get across, but, you know, you're going to have to do it, you know? And it was getting cold. It was getting dark. There was no place to camp. And I didn't want to camp on that side anyway, because I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing that I'd had this thing the next day to cross. So I, I got myself together and, and the plan was for me to sit in this rickety old chair and to strap my, my backpack. Uh, so it was hanging underneath the chair. Okay. And worried that should the the rope that's attaching it come apart, you know, should the pack be too heavy and it falls down into the water, then all my food is gone. My shelter is gone. My clothing is gone. I'm there. It's just me, right? And a bag of peanuts that I got in my my pocket, you know, uh, for the rest of the trip. And so I get in the chair and as I push it out from the from the side there, it was easy because it was going kind of on a, on a downward slant towards the middle of the gorge. Uh, and I'm going, okay, this is fine. And although I could hear the sound of the water was rushing through, it was really something. And then but in the middle now, it got so foggy that I couldn't see either side anymore Oh, man, you're just floating.

Speaker 1

[00.37.17]

All I see is I look one way or the other and it's just a cable disappearing into the mist. Gosh, not only that, but the second half going from the middle to the far end is now going back uphill, if you will, going in. Right, because of the sagging cable. And it got harder and harder to to grasp the cable and pull myself across, I could feel my my fingers are starting to get really, really cold. Um, if I, if I let up. Just a little. The whole chair will start sliding back to the middle. Right. And and so I'm struggling to keep it steady and to keep it moving slowly, slowly uphill. Hoping that sooner or later I'm going to see the end of where this cable is bolting into the into the rock on the far side. And, uh, sure enough, you know, when I finally saw it, I was, you know, maybe ten feet away, 15ft. And the burst of adrenaline, you know, I was able to push my way through. But then I had a problem getting off the chair because I was afraid that it would either slide back down or that when I tried to, uh, grab and untie my pack, that it would slip and fall down into the water, or I would, but, uh, you know, I took my time, and, uh, sooner or later, I was safe on the other side. And what was good about it, the. The payoff for me that day was that on the other side, uh, close by was another one of those little shelters that was there. And I would be able to just get there, get inside, spend the night. I wouldn't have to spend the night in my tent. Yeah. Uh, I could, you know, kick back in there and it would be warmer, and I'll be out of the wind and whatever.

Speaker 2

[00.39.16]

You must have been exhausted, too, even just from the adrenaline and the. Yeah,

Speaker 1

[00.39.20]

I was I was emotionally, physically, mentally, intellectually. Anyway, any way that you can be exhausted I was exhausted. Yeah. But, you know, at the same time I, I was able to look back and say, okay, but you didn't you didn't lose it. You didn't. You know, you kept your cool, you didn't panic. Uh, you figured out, you know, the best possible way of doing it. What the most, the safest way of doing would be, uh, you know, I, I realized that I had done the right thing in terms of of how to deal with, uh, with that situation, and, uh. That night was the best freeze dried meal I ever eat in my life, because I was so happy to be eating

Speaker 2

[00.40.10]

it. You know, isn't that something about traveling out in the wilderness that after a really hard day or an event like that, the food

Speaker 1

[00.40.18]

just changes, right? I I'll be honest, man, I every once in a while I would, I would eat some of that stuff here at home and I go, oh man, this is, that just doesn't taste all that great. But when I'm out there in the middle of nowhere, you know, on the day like that. I mean, not only is it good, you know, they pack these freeze dried meals for two people in one meal, you know? Oh, so I, you know, I eat the whole thing, and then I, I lick my plate. So I get every single more. So I lick and so clean. I don't even have to wash it. Your

Speaker 2

[00.40.57]

body wants those calories for sure. Uh, let me tell you, man Um, you know, you mentioned how diligent you are before a trip, how much you love the planning phase, and you get to a situation like that, and you're, you know, do you do you say to yourself, you know, like, how did I how do I how did I not catch this? Or how did I not rank this higher on the risk level, that kind of stuff. Well, I had, uh, I did know from the planning. Yeah, that it was there. I knew that when I got there, it was going to be a cable crossing and. And that I would have to negotiate it, but I didn't know it was going to be like that. I mean, I, you know, here again, if I had been with somebody, it wouldn't have been that big a deal, I'm not going to lie, was, you know, still would have been it's just not fair to

Speaker 1

[00.41.50]

me. So your attention, you

Speaker 2

[00.41.52]

know, when you're in the middle and you can't see their side, you

Speaker 1

[00.41.55]

know, and it's just you, you know? And then I was thinking that, you know, whenever you hear an incident where somebody went out into the wilderness and was never seen again, um, I know from experience that what that means is they probably fell into water because otherwise you would find a tent, you would find some remnants of the person uh, but, you know, on a river crossing or crossing water like this, uh, if you fall in and you get washed down. You might not. Nobody might ever know what happened to you. Right? And so, uh. Uh, yeah, I anticipated it. I knew that it was coming. Yeah. I didn't know it was. It was going to be like. And then that plus the amount of of, uh, concern and fear from the previous days with the polar bear and the quicksand and the weather, I didn't even get into the the crazy weather, winter weather. Um, but, you know, on the flip side, when I, after I made it and I got to the little shack there and I decided to spend a day there the next day without just to kind of calm down and, and reset and so forth. But during that day, I walked back to the gorge, uh, to look at it from the perspective of being on the on the right side of it now. Right. And to think about, um, what I had gone through and what was going through my mind. And to come to terms with, um, with fear and and how I deal with it and fear and how how it should be dealt with and and what I learned from that, from that whole episode, which only took maybe a half hour from start to finish. Um, but, uh, there was, there was a learning component to that experience, and I wanted to, uh, I wanted to soak it in and, and make sure that, um, it was something that I, in learning it is something that I could use, perhaps in the future if I ever get into a tough situation again. Yeah, that I wouldn't panic and that I would handle it right away and that, uh, I would be open to learning, uh, what it means to be afraid and how to handle fear. And in fact, right now I have a lecture that I do on fear. Oh, really? Cool. Yeah. It's called fear and the Art of Being Afraid, because I figure if you're going to be afraid, you may as well do it the right way, you know, so I, I have this this talk that I do, uh, uh, incorporating, you know, all I've learned from all the years that I've been scared,

Speaker 2

[00.44.55]

that's that I want to I want to be a student there. Um, I think it's really important, you know, from my experience, no matter how much you plan, you're going to run into something.

Speaker 1

[00.45.06]

Definitely. So

Speaker 2

[00.45.07]

it is important to understand of adventure. Yeah. You know, it means that you don't you, you you can plan, you know, day and night forever. And then you go out and do it. And something may happen that, that you hadn't anticipated or that it happens in a way that you didn't anticipate it happening. Uh, that's the that's the drama. That's the, the enticement. You know, for me, it's the adventure of it, of knowing that, hey, you know, something may happen when you need to lean back and depend on your, uh, experience and depend on your fitness and depend on your state of mind to get you through it. And I can tell you that an incident like that, when you get home, you still have that benefit. You still have that learning, even though there's no gorgeous I have to cross here in New York City, you know, I mean when, when when something happens that's challenging to you

Speaker 1

[00.46.10]

and you can say, yeah, well, but you can do that, man. You know, you walked across Greenland, you know, you set a chair in Baffin Island, you got to cross the gorge, you know. Yeah. Uh, so it stays with you, you know, it's a it has an impact. That's that's potentially very benefiting. Beneficial.

Speaker 2

[00.46.31]

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.46.33]

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, we all face challenges, so why not develop a little thicker skin? I guess if it's through through situations like that. Um, you've made it to the other side. You've taken a rest day.

Speaker 2

[00.46.49]

Uh, take us, take us out.

Speaker 1

[00.46.51]

So from there to the end, because Summit Lake is at the highest part of the route, um, theoretically, it's all downhill, you know, to the other side. And, and, you know, in terms of its topographic map, you know, it is downhill. Um, and, uh, there was actually a trail on the far side there, which wasn't in, uh, the initial part of the route that I took, uh, because most people start from the from the place I was heading to. That's usually the start point. For most people. It's called Newton, okay, or Pang. And most people fly into Pang and they walk up to Summit Lake, and then they turn around and they come back. So they never crossed the gorge or anything like that, right? They walk up to to the little shack where I was staying. There's a campsite there and it's at the highest point, so you can see beautiful glaciers, beautiful mountains. Baffin Island is a fantastically beautiful place. Yeah. And, um. And so they just do an up and back for a day or two. Uh, and so the now that I'm on that trail and I'm ending my height there, uh, the trail going back, uh, was, was pretty easy, uh, compared to the, to what I had been through already. But the the scenery, the fjords, the glaciers, the the, the moraines made by the glaciers. Yeah. Absolutely spectacular. And then, you know, kind of at the, you know, just to wrap the whole thing up at the end, you know, you just before you get to the end of the trail, you come to a, a rock, they call me. Yeah. Parker. Yeah. And there is a sign that says you are standing on the Arctic Circle and, you know, so you actually get to cross the Arctic Circle. Now, I was north of the Arctic Circle, walking south, crossing back down. Right. Uh, but uh, it was it was really cool to, to get to this, uh, this sign in three languages English, French and Inuktitut, the native language. Yeah. Uh, says the Arctic Circle. And that was cool. That is

Speaker 2

[00.49.12]

really cool. On the other side, did you get to spend any time in that village as well when you made it across?

Speaker 1

[00.49.17]

Yeah. So and and and which is a bigger town? Uh, I think it had like 1200 people there when I got there. And a big Hudson's Bay store and, and park headquarters is there. And, um, and so I spent a couple of days there as well. And, um, one thing I remember in particular, one, uh, one evening I, I went to this, uh. Like a little restaurant, um, place where you can eat in a in a rooming house there. Right. And I met a a woman, um, an indigenous woman who was traveling to the remote, uh, locations around Baffin Island. They role on the coast is. Nobody lives in the interior. Um, and she was interested. She was a student, a PhD student at the university in Iqaluit. And she was specializing into soapstone carving. That was done by women. And, uh, how skillful they are. I mean, men usually do most of the carving. Gotcha. Um, but, uh, uh, she was going and she was tracking women and interviewing them, and she had a video camera that she was taking, and she was telling me about the history of soapstone carving and and specifically carving that's done by women, because women do different subjects than men. Uh, and it it was fascinating to me. We had and, and, uh, uh, she was telling me about, you know, the she doesn't go, um. Trekking from one side to the other. She, uh uh, she goes mostly by boat because, as I say, most of the settlements are on the coast. Yeah, but, uh, it was, you know, we spend a lot of time talking about, um, learning and and visiting, uh, people who living different lifestyles than we are. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, it was it was really a fascinating meal there and fascinating experience

Speaker 2

[00.51.25]

to. Interesting. It seems like you kind of you accomplished all the goals that you you set out to write, like I

Speaker 1

[00.51.32]

did. I was very happy with that trip. Uh, when I came home, I was I was totally thrilled. Um, you know, especially, you know, you develop all your photos. Now, I'm saying developed back in the day, there was no digital camera. I had to I had to bring a Ziploc bag full of film rolls of film. Yeah. Do everything I could to make sure they didn't get wet or that they didn't get, you know, lost or damaged or anything

Speaker 2

[00.52.00]

like that into a gorge or something. Yeah, to

Speaker 1

[00.52.02]

a gorge or anything, you know. But then when you get home, you know, it's not like you can look at the photo. I mean, you have to then take the photos to a place and have them developed and, you know, wait until two days later or whatever until they can, you know, you're dying to see what the photos look like. Um. That was a great trip. I, uh, I got everything and more, uh, out of that trip than I wanted. You know, in terms of of learning, in terms of of adventure, um, you know, in terms of self-knowledge. Because what you learn on trips like this, you know, the biggest learning you get is, is learning about yourself and and learning how you make decisions and learning how you deal with adversity. You know, these are things that that help you all your life, you know? And so, uh, yeah, this particular trip, it was good, you know. But I'm going to tell you, man, I'm still a sucker for anything that says, don't come here unless you really know what you're doing. I

Speaker 2

[00.53.13]

bet. I mean, at this point,

Speaker 1

[00.53.15]

you've mentioned

Speaker 2

[00.53.16]

at this point you're the right person to take on, uh take on those challenges, though. Definitely have the experience for it. Well,

Speaker 1

[00.53.23]

I, I don't know, I read your book and now getting to listen to you, you know, talk in more detail about one of the stories. I'm super motivated. Um, I'll tell you my being Canadian. Um, my grandmother, she passed in her 90s. But, you know, in those years, she told me several times the Arctic is her favorite place in the world. Yes.

Speaker 2

[00.53.47]

Um, and every time, because I've traveled a lot. And she, you know, when you go in the Arctic, when are you going to go up there? And I'd be like, oh, you know, I was thinking about going to Anchorage, and then she'd sort of snap back, that's not the Arctic. You gotta go further. You gotta go further up there. I'm like, okay, I'll get there. So. I'm going to. I'm going to get there soon. But I am extremely motivated to just to just get out there and let me let me add my thoughts to your your grandmother's thoughts, you know, get out there. I have been north of the Arctic Circle like 15 times. Yeah. You know, I've been to northern Sweden, Lapland, northern Finland. I've been in I've been in Greenland, above the Arctic Circle. I've been to, uh, gates of the Arctic in Alaska, like three times, uh, you know, Baffin Island. And. Yeah, there's no place like it, you know, there's no place like it in the world. And and and not only would I urge you to go there, but to be honest, I would urge you to go there soon, because the earth is getting warmer and climate change is is wreaking havoc. Yeah.

Speaker 1

[00.55.02]

Uh, on the on the Arctic in particular, which is warming up faster than other places. I've talked to people living up there who used to who used to be, uh, subsistence people who could live off the land. And now they're finding that, you know, there aren't as many fish or seals or whales and water. There's not as much, uh, game caribou and whatever they're looking for on the land, um, the permafrost is melting and etc., etc., etc. if you want to see it and you want to appreciate it, don't wait too long.

Speaker 2

[00.55.38]

I. It's a good, uh, it's a good advice. It's kind of kind of sad as well. I mean, from some. When was the first time you went to the Arctic? Like, how many years ago?

Speaker 1

[00.55.49]

Uh,

Speaker 2

[00.55.50]

1960.

Speaker 1

[00.55.54]

Well, I went 66 back in the Stone age. I drove from from New York City in my Volkswagen up to Fairbanks, Alaska. Right. I

Speaker 2

[00.56.04]

remember that one in the book.

Speaker 1

[00.56.05]

Yeah. Now, that one ended just below the Arctic Circle and circle, Alaska. They called the circle Alaska. It was named circle Alaska because I used to think it was on the Arctic Circle, but it really was a few miles south of it.

Speaker 2

[00.56.17]

We definitely need more people with living memory like yourself speaking about like, you know, you've seen it over the years, the change. So I will I will take that to heart, put that, push that up my list

Speaker 1

[00.56.31]

and then write a book about it, and then I'll interview you. I would love

Speaker 2

[00.56.35]

that. I would love something tells me you're you're pretty good at it. So.

Speaker 1

[00.56.40]

Um, I can ask a question. I'm curious enough to. Yeah,

Speaker 2

[00.56.44]

exactly.

Speaker 1

[00.56.45]

People. Yeah. Uh,

Speaker 2

[00.56.46]

J.R., thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your story. Uh, sharing your experiences and and a bigger thank you for just doing it more and more generally. I think, you know, you you motivated me. I'm sure you're motivating lots of other people to appreciate nature and push their limits a little bit. And as you said, get out there.

Speaker 1

[00.57.07]

Well, thanks a lot for, uh, for the invitation and the invite to do this. I really enjoyed it. And, uh, and yeah, if I, you know, can influence somebody in a positive way to, uh, experience nature and all the benefits that come with being out there. Um, then, yeah, I would I'm happy to do that. I, you know, it's it's it's an important thing to do, uh, not only for your own growth, but if you go out there and you see what it's like and you realize what's happening out there then you become a steward. You'll become someone who cares about your planet, about our home. And and ideally, you will, uh, support efforts to, um, to keep it sustainable for our kids and our grandkids.

Speaker 2

[00.57.57]

I couldn't agree more. Thank you.

Speaker 1

[00.57.59]

J.R.. All right, man. Have a good one. You, too.

Speaker 2

[00.58.04]

A big thank you to J.R. for coming on the podcast and sharing one of his stories. If you enjoyed it and want to hear more, definitely check out his book, Way Out There. Adventures of a Wilderness Tracker. Or check out his website J.R. on the wilderness.com. Also, if you have an amazing travel story you'd like to tell. Please find me at one off Travel stories.com.