Transcript
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When she didn't show up for work the following day, her co-workers and fiance knew immediately
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that something was way off.
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This is the part of the movie in the beginning where everything is nice and planning a wedding
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and everything is wonderful.
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I almost forgot that this was going to be a bad story.
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And then now she's gone missing and I'm like, oh yeah, the sucks.
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Yeah, let's just suck.
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[Music]
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Hi Chris.
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Hi, Caitlyn.
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Hello creepy people.
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Hello.
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Did I do it right?
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You did good.
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Yeah, it's, you know, it's just the...
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I've listened to enough of these.
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That's right, that's right.
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It's, you know, it's just the Mrs. Doubtfire.
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Hello.
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Pretty good.
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Yeah, pretty good.
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You're the expert here.
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I mean, I've been doing it for a while now.
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If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we
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chat about true crime, the paranormal and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.
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We do a tarot reading at the end for deeper insight into this episode, so make sure you stick
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around if you're into that.
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They are into it.
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I think it's been established.
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Yeah.
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Just making sure.
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Oh yeah.
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No, we say that all the time.
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We're like, you know, if you're into it and you are.
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Oh, I'm into it.
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Yeah.
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Oh my gosh.
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I can't believe it's taken this long to drag you on to the show.
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Yeah.
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A lot of behind the scenes stuff.
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No kidding.
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But now I'm sitting in the hot seat and...
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Yeah.
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A little awkward.
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I don't know what to do with my hands.
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Oh, classic.
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Classic.
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Well, for those of you that don't know, well, first of all, this is not Cassie.
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I think we were pretty clear about that at the top.
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Fintel.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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This is my fiancee.
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Chris.
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How's it been next week?
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Yeah.
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That's right.
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Exactly.
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By the time this comes out, I believe it's a bit of a coincidence.
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I believe we will actually be married.
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So...
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Fintel.
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Exactly.
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Unless he gets really upset about this episode tonight.
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We'll see how this goes.
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Yeah.
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We'll just see how this goes.
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I do sort of have a knack for stumbling upon.
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I wasn't looking for this per se, but I think I found what I imagine is probably your particular
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brand of nightmare fuel.
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So...
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah.
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So you're welcome.
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Yeah.
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I think I'm ready.
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Okay.
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I'll do okay.
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He's like, "Yeah.
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I've been listening to your episodes for a while now.
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I think I know what to expect."
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And yet every week, Cassie walks in and out of here, just a totally different person.
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Yeah.
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She does look different to me every single week.
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I don't know what you've been doing to that poor woman.
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I know.
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I know.
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Well, she's going to get to hit the easy button with this one.
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Yeah, next.
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Yeah.
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She has already read the notes for this case.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah.
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I have not read them.
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I know.
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That's by side.
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Yeah.
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Usually you're the one that reads them for me, so.
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I do.
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Proofreads for me a lot.
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I think there's not much to proofread, honestly.
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Yeah.
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I'm just getting a sneak peek.
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Yeah.
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Sometimes he catches some really egregious typos.
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I am a grammar hound for that stuff.
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It's not even grammar.
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It's just like who was typing this?
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I drunk monkey.
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I was going to say you, but I want to be careful what I say here.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Oh, my goodness.
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Okay.
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Well, I don't think we really have any business.
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Nothing that's new and pressing anyways.
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So we're recording this after dark.
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It's not actually dark outside, but basically what we mean to say, we're recording this at EOD
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and to business day.
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So, you know, Chuck Chuck.
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We've already had a long day at work.
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Yeah.
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We know.
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We usually do this on the weekend.
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That's right.
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Yeah.
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It'll like all day, all day for one of our weekend days, typically.
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This last weekend we got to play hooky for the batch party.
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Yeah.
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That was a lot of fun.
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We went to Hotel Oregon over in McMinnville.
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We'll post pictures and some videos and some fun stuff from the weekend.
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We're looking at right now one of the fun stuff.
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Oh, that candle.
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Yeah, my gift from one of my gifts from Cassie.
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She did herself.
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I have my bridal yeti, of course.
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I'm jealous.
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I know.
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Bridal beverages.
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Very important.
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Gotta stay hydrated.
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Yeah.
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No.
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No.
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So.
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And we'll set up the tarot camera here in a little bit and everybody will get to see
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this very saucy candle.
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I don't know what to say about that.
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It's making me a little flush.
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I'm blushing over here.
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Oh.
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My virgin eyes.
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Oh, that's right.
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Yeah.
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Do you think anyone's buying that, sir?
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I'm doing my best to sell it.
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Okay.
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Well, let's see if anyone's buying.
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Okay.
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I'm going to get into the story for today so that we can hopefully get to bed before
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midnight tonight.
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Yeah.
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We'll see.
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Fingers crossed.
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So likely.
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I mean, there we go.
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Crossing them a little bit harder, just to really make sure.
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Ugh.
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Let's not sink in.
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Okay.
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The summer of 1996 was an incredibly happy time for 24-year-old graphic designer, Susi
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Larsen.
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At the time she lived in the Lake Oswego area and was preparing for her wedding that September
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to her fiance, Keith Hippley.
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Wow.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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I see why you saved this episode for me.
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Yeah.
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I was like, you have got to be kidding me.
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We are preparing for a wedding.
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That's true.
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Yeah.
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I mean, and how strange, like, you know, right here in our very own Pacific Northwest,
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neck of the woods.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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Not far from home.
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Yeah.
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I wonder if there are any other parallels.
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It's like there is.
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Actually, I don't know that there are tons.
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Some not far from, you know, a lot of places that we know of and have visited, but...
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Oh, it's enough for me.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's enough.
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That's enough.
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We don't need more.
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Yeah.
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The couple had met when they both worked at Mattel in California.
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She worked for the Barbie Division and he was on with Hot Wheels.
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On brand.
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Yeah.
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Very gender normative, but like, you know, that's okay.
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Those that knew Susi best, like her sister Mindy, as well as her father, described her as
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optimistic and friendly if it times a bit too trusting.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Sorry, like, there could have been like at least one more parallel.
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Arguably.
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Yeah.
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That reminds me of somebody I can't quite put my finger on it.
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You can drink if you want to.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah.
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You can drink in a lot of this.
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Yeah.
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You can still drink.
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I got to get through this.
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I don't know what I'm doing.
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I'm not a professional like you and Cassie.
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You're doing just fine.
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On August 27th, she went to visit a male acquaintance that she'd met through mutual
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friends.
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He had reportedly agreed to make her a pair of earrings for her upcoming wedding.
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Some source material says that he was supposed to be making jewelry for her bride's
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mates.
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Okay.
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So I don't know either, either or maybe both.
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So it's a little unclear.
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I think that's one particular detail that like detectives are probably like, yeah, yeah,
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yeah, jewelry, you know, like cool.
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You shopping.
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You shopping.
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Exactly.
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This man was known within her friends group, including her roommate, though Susie personally
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didn't know him very well.
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Oh, this is so funny.
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Okay.
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So this is if my notes, at the time that I was writing this, it says, I just got my own wedding
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earrings this week.
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I don't think I even knew that.
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Yeah, they're really pretty.
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So maybe I'll have to grab them so that we can take a picture with them on the tarot altar.
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There you go.
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Yeah.
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When she didn't show up for work the following day, her co-workers and fiance knew immediately
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that something was way off.
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This is the part of the movie in the beginning where everything is nice and they're planning
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and wedding and everything is wonderful.
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I almost forgot that this was going to be a bad story.
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And then now she's gone missing and I'm like, oh, yeah, the sucks.
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Yeah, it's just like it does suck.
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Yeah.
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I know it's it.
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It kind of hit me partway through because I was like, oh, you know, thinking about our
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wedding planning and then I was like, oh, that's kind of a bummer.
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She just was a really reliable person.
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Obviously, it sounds like loved her job.
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Graphic design sounds like such a cool job.
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Especially in the 90s.
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Yeah.
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That was real new.
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Yeah.
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So, I mean, she had a really cool job.
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She lived in this, you know, hip little part of town.
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She was about to get married.
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She was just really crushing it lifelys.
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So it just wasn't like her to not show up to work.
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Yeah, sure.
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No one seemed to have knowledge of her whereabouts between her appointment on the 27th and the following
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00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,160
day.
277
00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:42,040
Her family and friends were quick to act on their concerns and they were furiously putting
278
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:48,240
up flyers all over the Lake Oswego and Tualatin area pretty much right away.
279
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:55,760
While concerned about her inexplicable disappearance, they were still somewhat hopeful that she would
280
00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:00,320
be found and have the wedding of her dreams to look forward to.
281
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:01,320
Of course.
282
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:02,320
Yeah.
283
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:08,640
And of course, a lifetime of wedded bliss with the man that she loved so dearly.
284
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:14,280
There had been a strange encounter on Goat Mountain East in Molalla involving a group
285
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:20,680
of youths, four days prior, but little information seems to be available about what specifically
286
00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:22,040
occurred.
287
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:28,920
So I don't know if they just encountered each other on a hiking trail, but law enforcement
288
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:34,520
determined the individuals and whatever that interaction was had nothing to do with her
289
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,360
disappearance fairly quickly.
290
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:38,360
Hooligans.
291
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:39,360
Hooligans.
292
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,360
I know.
293
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,360
Hooligans and their shenanigans.
294
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,360
Yeah.
295
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:50,240
They turned their attention to exploring other avenues with the case.
296
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:58,240
The man she'd planned to meet that day, Billy Oatney Jr. was first interviewed by police
297
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:06,360
on September 2nd, where he claimed he hadn't seen her in three weeks, which is a little
298
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:13,360
weird for somebody who probably saw her about a week ago, but that's cool.
299
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,360
The math ain't math, and.
300
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,360
Yeah, the math ain't math, and that's right.
301
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,320
Not even if you use girl math.
302
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,880
Seems a little odd, but maybe they didn't meet as planned.
303
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,040
I mean, I think they kind of had to take a look at that, you know.
304
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,000
Even though the friend said, oh yeah, she was supposed to go meet up with him.
305
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,000
It's possible.
306
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,160
It just didn't work out.
307
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:40,280
It was still early in the investigation, so law enforcement hadn't gathered much to go
308
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:46,080
on and likely had little more than vague suspicions about Billy's statement.
309
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,320
However, that would quickly change.
310
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:55,080
A chain reaction was set in motion by a routine traffic stop in Milwaukee.
311
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:56,880
They're never routine.
312
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:57,880
They're.
313
00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:58,880
They're all but routine.
314
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,920
They're always routine.
315
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,440
That is how all of these guys get caught.
316
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,760
All of them like broken tail light.
317
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,040
Yeah, God.
318
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,080
Just, you know, like maybe make sure that your tail lights work.
319
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:19,080
You know, like they always say like if you're going to be committing crime, like make sure
320
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:24,000
your taxes are straight, make sure your brake lights work.
321
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,920
I don't want to be accused of creating like a how to guide here, but like it's a little
322
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,080
infuriating that people are that dumb.
323
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,080
Seems like common sense.
324
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,920
Yeah, but you know, it stays stupid.
325
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,400
That's a thing I've heard.
326
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,600
It's working out for the rest of it.
327
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:40,600
It really is.
328
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,560
It really is.
329
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:49,440
The officer noted that when he pulled Billy over that his license plate light was not
330
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:50,440
working.
331
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,440
Wow.
332
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:52,440
Yeah.
333
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:58,200
That's not a thing that you usually get pulled over for.
334
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,080
Yeah, it didn't sound like it to me.
335
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:01,080
Sure.
336
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,080
This wasn't a tip.
337
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:09,600
You know, nothing that I read indicated that they were really sitting on this guy at this
338
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,400
point and Milwaukee.
339
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:19,200
I don't know that they were involved in any efforts with the case at that point either.
340
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,640
So I think this is just like a dumb luck thing where maybe there was something else about
341
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:30,840
the vehicle that looked suspicious or yeah, I don't know.
342
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:37,200
But a cursory search on the ID he presented produced nothing.
343
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,520
Still usually these days the police have bigger fish to fry.
344
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,960
I would say.
345
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:50,600
Wilford Johnston, his passenger, was a different story.
346
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:57,000
You might call him that bigger fish at this stage at least as he had an outstanding warrant
347
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,880
for a parole violation at the time.
348
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,520
So they're like, oh, great.
349
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:03,520
It's a two-fer.
350
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:04,520
Nice.
351
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:05,520
Yeah.
352
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:11,720
I don't know if they ticketed him for the license plate light thing, but I don't know.
353
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:12,720
Maybe.
354
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:13,720
Maybe?
355
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:14,720
We're going to say it happened.
356
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:15,720
Yeah.
357
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,640
Honestly, again, like bigger fish to fry here, but I was curious.
358
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,560
I just, you know, I felt like there were more important things to focus on.
359
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:35,920
The officer also spotted a duffel bag that the pair appeared to be particularly fixated
360
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,920
on, which is so funny because I feel like that's like a little kid who's like trying to sneak
361
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,640
a cookie or something and they're like, like looking at it but trying not to look like
362
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,280
they're looking at it.
363
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:49,280
Right.
364
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,000
And it's always super obvious.
365
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,600
A duffel bag outside of the gym is always suspicious.
366
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,400
I feel like, yeah.
367
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:04,400
And they apparently didn't look like they were more than likely coming from or to the gym.
368
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:13,040
So Billy allowed the officer to search the bag when asked, which is another one of the
369
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:20,800
dumbest things that I can think of somebody doing in his shoes, but he inventoryed the items
370
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:31,760
inside a replica gun and a large double-bladed knife along with a pellet gun, a stun gun
371
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:32,920
and duct tape.
372
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:43,360
Oh, and also a lock pick and binoculars, some large scissors and also condoms.
373
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:44,360
Uh-huh.
374
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:45,360
Okay.
375
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:46,360
So nothing to worry about.
376
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:47,360
Yeah.
377
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:48,360
Like what the fuck?
378
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:49,360
Carry on.
379
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:56,000
So creepy as like that isn't no.
380
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,000
Just I don't I don't want to know.
381
00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,000
No rope.
382
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,000
I you know what?
383
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,040
I was thinking I'm like, there's no gloves.
384
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:03,040
There's no rope.
385
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,040
So it's fine.
386
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,240
It's probably fine.
387
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:06,240
Yeah.
388
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:12,120
But I seriously, when I was reading this, I'm like, that is almost as creepy as finding a
389
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:14,960
long buried Israel keys.
390
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,520
Kill kit.
391
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:22,440
Like except this dumbass apparently thought his duffel bag contained no red flags.
392
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,360
He was like, there's no gloves.
393
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:25,840
There's no rope.
394
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,320
It's fine.
395
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,080
This is my state like I take this with me everywhere.
396
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:32,080
Who doesn't?
397
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:33,080
I mean, yeah.
398
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,320
Got one in my trunk right now.
399
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,680
Chris is like, I have nothing to say about that.
400
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,880
Chris is like, I have second thoughts.
401
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:52,720
Now, as probably literally no one is surprised to learn, these two jackalopes are firmly planted
402
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,280
on law enforcement's radar.
403
00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,600
They had just become persons of interest in Susi's case.
404
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,800
Obviously, it wasn't like there was an official announcement at the time, but anyone who was
405
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:11,520
on the fringes of this front group that had an awareness of Susi's scheduled meeting
406
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,800
with Billy.
407
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:21,960
And then his subsequent questioning, as well as his friends arrest, frankly, they had to
408
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,640
be shitting their pants.
409
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:24,640
It's not looking good.
410
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,760
No, it's not looking good at all.
411
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:35,640
Law enforcement already had Wilford, his buddy in custody due to his outstanding warrant.
412
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:42,080
When they listened to taped conversations between Wilford and Billy from jail, they learned
413
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:47,400
that their prisoner's friend may have involvement in the disappearance of Susie Larson.
414
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:48,640
Those dummies.
415
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:54,520
I do, do people not just, you don't know that those calls are recorded?
416
00:19:54,520 --> 00:20:01,040
I feel like in the movies, when they pick up the phone, it even says, as it's dialing,
417
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,560
this call is being recorded.
418
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:04,560
Is that not a thing?
419
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:05,560
I have no idea.
420
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,560
I need to get your dad on the call.
421
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,760
I have a lot of questions.
422
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,280
Yeah, he might know.
423
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,440
You would probably know.
424
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:21,000
Billy's landlord consented to a search following law enforcement's dedicated efforts keep close
425
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,680
observation of the two as they built their case.
426
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:30,680
Oddly, Billy had moved out of his apartment shortly after Susi's disappearance.
427
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,440
I mean, I don't think it's that weird.
428
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,080
People like to move.
429
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,080
Yeah.
430
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,560
But maybe he had already made those plans.
431
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,040
He seems like a discerning dude.
432
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,440
Keep in mind, there are some limitations when it comes to forensic evidence and testing
433
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,000
at this point.
434
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:57,360
They found blood on the carpet in the apartment that was a match to Susie's blood type.
435
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,160
Blood type is still a pretty broad.
436
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,760
We're getting there, but not quite.
437
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:03,760
Yeah.
438
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,080
We feel like we're getting on to something.
439
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:13,320
They were then also able to get a search warrant for his vehicle where they recovered the
440
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:18,720
previously described creepy, presumed on a live in kit.
441
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:25,240
Law enforcement continued their surveillance efforts, now seemingly singularly focused
442
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:30,520
on Billy, seeing as they already had Wilford in custody.
443
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,520
And then they already cleared those meddling kids.
444
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:35,520
Right.
445
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:36,520
The hooligans.
446
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,880
Yeah, the hooligans and their shenanigans.
447
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:46,120
It's unclear to me when the following details were uncovered in the investigation efforts,
448
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:53,200
but local law enforcement learned some disturbing details about some of the time that Billy spent
449
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,200
abroad.
450
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,680
A Broadway.
451
00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:01,200
He had served in the military overseas in Japan.
452
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:07,240
During his time in the service, he'd been arrested and convicted for assault, as well as
453
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,720
attempted murder following a vicious attack on a fellow service member.
454
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:13,720
Well, okay.
455
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,720
Yeah.
456
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,960
Little aggressive, even for the military.
457
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,200
Not a great sign.
458
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,600
He had slit the man's throat.
459
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:25,600
Whoa, okay.
460
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,680
So like actual attempted murder.
461
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:29,680
Oh, yeah.
462
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,680
Not like I beat you up a little too bad.
463
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,720
Yeah, no, this isn't con air.
464
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,720
Yeah, yeah.
465
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,280
That's the one where he beats the guy up too badly and goes to prison because he's a deadly
466
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,280
weapon, right?
467
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,800
Oh God, that does sound like a Nicholas Cage movie.
468
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,200
It is a Nicholas Cage movie.
469
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:53,440
Well, no, I know that, but like just the premise, like my hands are registered weapons.
470
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:58,880
They're not registered, but you can actually be, I looked into this recently and I can't
471
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,840
say why, but I did look into this recently.
472
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:10,920
You can be charged even if you don't have like a physical traditionally speaking weapon.
473
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:16,040
Your hands can be considered weapons, but registering them is not a thing.
474
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:22,000
So for all of you weirdos on that corner of the internet saying how you registered.
475
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,720
Those words, I might have to do that.
476
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,760
Again, I say weirdos.
477
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,080
Oh, thanks.
478
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,240
Oh gosh.
479
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,080
Based on the charges levied against Billy, it's safe to say that his victim in that case
480
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:47,840
survived, but it's hard to imagine something more horrific and traumatic.
481
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:55,840
Billy was sentenced to 22 years, but only served 13, which what is going on?
482
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,640
Like we've got one service member attacking another.
483
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:08,040
He's sentenced to the better part of 25 years and he serves like a little over half of it.
484
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:14,760
Like if the military is kind of taking that, that sort of a stance or really like let them
485
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:15,760
off easy.
486
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:16,760
What?
487
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:17,760
What?
488
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,240
No, maybe they didn't like the other guy.
489
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,240
Kind of a dick.
490
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,360
They're like still like we kind of get it.
491
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,120
Yeah, yikes.
492
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:36,280
I mean, maybe following his release, he moved to Portland because that's where that's
493
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,160
where you should go.
494
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:44,320
He'd only been released and in turn living in the local area for just a few short months
495
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,800
at the time of Susi's disappearance.
496
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,080
Back to the search for Susi.
497
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:57,800
13 days after her disappearance, Susi was found.
498
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:06,000
She was discovered at Champoeg Park with telltale signs of a truly horrendous attack.
499
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,360
Her body was found bound and gagged.
500
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:18,760
She'd been suffocated after having endured a vicious sexual assault and torture with
501
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,960
a stun gun.
502
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,480
Well, that is not great.
503
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:31,520
It's not great, but you know what is great is that they already know where that stun gun
504
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:32,520
is.
505
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,880
Okay, well, that is great.
506
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,720
Yeah.
507
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:44,600
Her family naturally was absolutely devastated to learn of her murder and the details of
508
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,760
her death.
509
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:56,840
I mean, to lose a loved one that way, for them to be murdered, but for it to be such a
510
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:04,280
horrific murder, pretty awful.
511
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:13,160
They held her funeral and buried her on what would have been her wedding day that September.
512
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,280
Why that day?
513
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:26,520
I mean, typically when someone passes away, you have a relatively finite window.
514
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:33,760
In this case, I would presume they did not do something like open casket, which really
515
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,840
gets the clock moving.
516
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:47,760
But yeah, I mean, that it's really important for a lot of people to be able to start to have
517
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,440
a sense of closure and to begin to heal.
518
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:58,520
In the short span of just a couple of weeks, they had endured the depredation and complete
519
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:06,680
obliteration of every hope or dream for Susie's future.
520
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:14,520
And I know that everybody that is taken in this manner, the same can be said for their
521
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:22,200
families, but it just seems so sad because it's like, you know, she was just at this next
522
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,120
big point in her life.
523
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:26,120
Right.
524
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:28,680
And it happened right before that.
525
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:35,120
I mean, yeah, the timing is not good.
526
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:36,880
No, it's awful.
527
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:45,240
I'm not sure there's any good timing to be murdered in that way, but yeah, that's unfortunate.
528
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,040
It just feels particularly sad because of that.
529
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:58,160
Her mother Shannon said she could do nothing when told of her daughter's death except scream.
530
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:04,960
The days, weeks and months following her death have been endless, emotional thoughts of
531
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:10,480
her, suffering, and then taken away completely.
532
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:25,000
It just gives me the heaps and the jeeps.
533
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,480
It's the date that Billy's lawyer told him to come forward and share the facts of the
534
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,800
case as he knew them to law enforcement.
535
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:41,160
By this time, he and his girlfriend had hired the private attorney who it should be noted
536
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:47,240
did not have a background or experience in practicing criminal law.
537
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,560
What did he have a background in?
538
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:50,960
I'm not really sure.
539
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,640
I think they probably just found someone that they could afford.
540
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,400
They probably just felt like it was important to have representation.
541
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,400
Okay.
542
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,200
I don't think the girlfriend had to worry that long about having representation.
543
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:12,200
I think pretty quickly she was like, okay, so I'm going to go now.
544
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:13,200
Bye.
545
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,640
Probably a good idea.
546
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:15,640
Yeah.
547
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,640
A wise choice.
548
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:22,120
He said he'd initially stayed quiet because he didn't have a solid alibi.
549
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:28,240
It was afraid that he would be implicated in the murder based on the circumstances.
550
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,840
You know, like it happened in his apartment.
551
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,840
Can't have that.
552
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:34,840
No.
553
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:41,360
Although I will say granted, it's all probably people that are intoxicated to some degree.
554
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:49,520
But like, how is being at a bar in a very public place for, you know, a set period of time,
555
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,240
not a good alibi?
556
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,160
You would think.
557
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,000
You would think.
558
00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:00,040
Please ask for permission to play part of his recorded statement to Wilford and Billy
559
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,840
agreed.
560
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,360
A lot dumb things happening here.
561
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:12,680
When he learned that Billy had turned on him, Wilford was angry and finally decided to
562
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,280
provide new information to the police.
563
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:23,000
He'd been staying with Billy in the days leading up to Susi's disappearance and murder.
564
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:29,000
After hearing the recording of Billy's conversation with the authorities, he recalled the events
565
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,800
sharing a markedly different story from that of Billy.
566
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:34,800
No way.
567
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,640
I know what?
568
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:43,440
He's like, no, I definitely didn't do that.
569
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:49,840
Wilford said that on the very night of her disappearance, Billy had told Wilford that
570
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:56,560
he had been on a date with Susie when he brought her back to his place.
571
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,920
Okay.
572
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,680
Survey says that's a lie.
573
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:11,680
Wilford recalled hearing a stun gun from the other room, which is probably not a sound
574
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,120
most of us are likely to hear every day.
575
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:20,320
I don't know that if that noise came from another room and out of context that I would be able
576
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,520
to readily identify it.
577
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:25,720
But I would have questions.
578
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:31,800
I would have follow up questions and I would go to seek that information and probably immediately
579
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,080
be stun gunned.
580
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,080
So that's...
581
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:39,040
I would be shocked if I heard that.
582
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,280
You did not.
583
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,680
You know how we like that.
584
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,640
You know how we feel about dad jokes.
585
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,680
In any case, it got his attention.
586
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:58,520
He came into the room to find Billy on top of Susi on the living room floor with the stun
587
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,800
gun to her neck.
588
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:01,800
Okay.
589
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:02,800
Just casual.
590
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,160
That's...
591
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,400
We do that like every other Tuesday.
592
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:08,400
Yeah.
593
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:21,240
Up to this point, Wilford is only guilty of whatever past crimes he had committed.
594
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:30,080
And maybe also of having a slightly creepy friend, which if I were the leader of this country,
595
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,840
I would make it a crime.
596
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,480
Being creepy is a crime.
597
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,160
No, we can't say that.
598
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,160
We don't like creepy people.
599
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,160
Yeah.
600
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,160
No, but I mean like creepy in a bad way.
601
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,040
You can be creepy like in a good way.
602
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,440
Like creepy cute.
603
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:45,920
Creepy spooky.
604
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:46,920
Creepy.
605
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,760
Just don't be a creep.
606
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,840
Don't yeah, don't be a creep.
607
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,400
Don't be like an in-sau creep.
608
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,400
Don't be a...
609
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:57,400
There's...
610
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,040
The list goes on and on.
611
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:07,120
All of the other adjectives that I'm going to slide next to creep are very heteronormative
612
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,200
for the males in the audience and...
613
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,160
Oh, oh, okay.
614
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,160
And they're all gone.
615
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,160
Poof.
616
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,160
I know.
617
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,200
All three of them.
618
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:31,600
Like that one time, we got a response to a tweet that we put out from a male listener.
619
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,280
And he was like, "Hey, there's five of us."
620
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,000
Yeah, that's funny.
621
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:44,440
Instead of intervening for Susi's safety or simply removing himself from the situation
622
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:50,520
to get help, Wilford helped Billy tie Susie up.
623
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:51,760
As one does.
624
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,840
I like how your face said one thing and then your mouth's another one.
625
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,760
And somewhere in the middle, you were just like, "I'm so uncomfortable."
626
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,000
Very much, yeah.
627
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:13,400
Billy then proceeded to cut off her clothing and sexually assault her, which is just...
628
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:19,640
Trying to stick to the basics and the facts of the case on this and not be too terribly
629
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:27,000
graphic, but even knowing some of the details of the attack before hearing Wilford's
630
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,880
recounting of events, it's truly shocking.
631
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:38,160
Which, I mean, just a series of events and the fact that like, "Okay, maybe you didn't
632
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,120
know this guy was going to do something like that."
633
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,160
But then you're presented with this situation and...
634
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,800
Little to me, girl.
635
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:47,800
Yeah.
636
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:48,800
Well, bet.
637
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,800
I mean, it seems like you're into it.
638
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:54,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
639
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,600
You're part of this.
640
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:03,680
Yeah, I mean, I don't want to go around throwing out the word accomplice, you know, all Willie
641
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,600
Nilly, but allegedly.
642
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,000
Allegedly.
643
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,000
Or allegendly.
644
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,000
No, okay.
645
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,000
I like that.
646
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,400
We made that word up recently, so.
647
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,400
Oh, okay.
648
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,120
Yeah, that was Cassie's brainchild.
649
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,680
You guys make up a lot of words.
650
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:20,680
We do.
651
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:21,680
It's hard to keep up.
652
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:22,680
I know.
653
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:23,680
I know.
654
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,160
When the ideas are this good, you just got to roll with it.
655
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,160
Gotta let them out.
656
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:30,160
Gotta let the people know.
657
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,760
You gotta let the people know.
658
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,200
You guys, we have something really exciting to share with you.
659
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,080
Let's hear a few words from our new pod besties.
660
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,680
A little bit de todo, though, is a podcast about a little bit of everything, for curious minds
661
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:45,680
of all ages.
662
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,160
I'm Christina, and you can tune in every weekday to learn about things like Cinco de Mayo,
663
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,680
Chihuahua's, and volcanoes in Latin America.
664
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:56,080
Those are bite-sized, 10 minutes long or less, and always Latin American-related.
665
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,560
Subscribe and follow a little bit de todo podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.
666
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,280
Check them out, creepy people.
667
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:07,240
You can find their info in our show notes.
668
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:13,080
Maybe because there's a little part of me that even knowing how the story ends, had
669
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:20,720
hope that rather than going along with his friend, that Wilford would help her.
670
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:31,680
There were so many opportunities for this person to, I mean, even the point of after this has
671
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,120
all been horrifically perpetrated on her.
672
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:41,880
There are so many opportunities for this man to go, "Fuck, this is awful, and I'm probably
673
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:51,320
going to spend the rest of my life in prison because I did, in fact, by my own confession.
674
00:36:51,320 --> 00:37:00,760
I've admitted to this that I played a very significant role in this crime."
675
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:08,720
He could have done that, and that would have even been slightly redeemable.
676
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:09,720
Really slight.
677
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:12,720
Very slight slinest.
678
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:13,720
Yeah.
679
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:20,840
But there's so many opportunities for this to have not gone this far.
680
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:27,000
For this person to have tried to have done the right thing somewhere along the line.
681
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:35,400
Quite to the contrary, he assisted very directly in her heartbreaking fate.
682
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:42,840
During the attack, the men forced Susi to provide her ATM card and pin.
683
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,480
Wilford went to an ATM to withdraw cash and returned to find Billy attempting to kill
684
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,360
her.
685
00:37:50,360 --> 00:38:00,040
He returned to find that the victim had blood on her face and was not moving.
686
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:09,720
This next portion is from Court testimony, and I will say that it is rough.
687
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,040
Have we not got to the rough part stuff?
688
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:13,040
Yeah.
689
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:14,040
I know.
690
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:15,040
Really?
691
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,280
That's pretty much what Cassie says like every week.
692
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,280
Yeah.
693
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,400
No, it's pretty rough.
694
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:28,940
This really just has more to do with the difficulty of hearing the testimony of multiple
695
00:38:28,940 --> 00:38:31,940
parties involved.
696
00:38:31,940 --> 00:38:32,940
Yeah.
697
00:38:32,940 --> 00:38:33,940
Okay.
698
00:38:33,940 --> 00:38:39,780
Let's get into it.
699
00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:45,400
Wilford testified that Billy told him upon his return that he had hit and choked the
700
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,940
victim because she quote, "Just wouldn't have sex with me."
701
00:38:51,940 --> 00:38:54,940
Well, that is a reason.
702
00:38:54,940 --> 00:38:55,940
Yeah.
703
00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:57,940
Not a good one.
704
00:38:57,940 --> 00:38:58,940
Yeah.
705
00:38:58,940 --> 00:39:11,980
He further stated that he had tried to kill her, but that she just wouldn't die.
706
00:39:11,980 --> 00:39:19,420
Wilford stated that he then helped Billy as he held a plastic bag over Susi's head until
707
00:39:19,420 --> 00:39:23,460
she stopped breathing.
708
00:39:23,460 --> 00:39:30,780
The following day, Billy Oatney Jr. was officially placed under arrest.
709
00:39:30,780 --> 00:39:35,580
Meanwhile, Wilford negotiated a plea deal.
710
00:39:35,580 --> 00:39:42,940
In 1998, Billy was found guilty and sentenced to death.
711
00:39:42,940 --> 00:39:43,940
The end.
712
00:39:43,940 --> 00:39:44,940
Just kidding.
713
00:39:44,940 --> 00:39:45,940
Yeah.
714
00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:46,940
No.
715
00:39:46,940 --> 00:39:48,940
I was like, that's an abrupt ending.
716
00:39:48,940 --> 00:39:51,180
Yeah, you're like, that's so weird.
717
00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:56,100
You didn't talk about the trial or that's like very little testimony.
718
00:39:56,100 --> 00:40:00,580
It's very little that you've said about the whole case.
719
00:40:00,580 --> 00:40:09,520
Susi's sister Mindy told Oatney at his sentencing, "I hate you for what you did to my sister and
720
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,940
I hate you for what you did to my family.
721
00:40:12,940 --> 00:40:19,140
My hope is that you will feel one ounce of the pain and fear that Susi felt.
722
00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:24,460
And every day to the day of your execution, your life is a living hell."
723
00:40:24,460 --> 00:40:27,460
"Here's to hope."
724
00:40:27,460 --> 00:40:28,460
Yeah.
725
00:40:28,460 --> 00:40:38,680
Susi's father, Ted, also spoke at the sentencing stating, "She trusted and she saw the good
726
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,060
in everyone.
727
00:40:41,060 --> 00:40:46,340
That innocent trust ultimately led to her death."
728
00:40:46,340 --> 00:40:48,900
How dare you?
729
00:40:48,900 --> 00:40:56,740
Your legacy will be one of murder, one of rape, one of satamy, one of pain.
730
00:40:56,740 --> 00:41:01,980
You have nothing worthwhile to contribute to this life and never have.
731
00:41:01,980 --> 00:41:03,460
I hope you rotten hell.
732
00:41:03,460 --> 00:41:06,940
That was a good speech.
733
00:41:06,940 --> 00:41:08,700
I think so too.
734
00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:18,860
I think a lot of times the statements that we hear from families tend to send her more
735
00:41:18,860 --> 00:41:26,380
on forgiveness in one respect or another.
736
00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:33,220
And I think part of the reason why we do is that it's really difficult to think about
737
00:41:33,220 --> 00:41:39,700
being able to forgive someone that did this to a person that you love.
738
00:41:39,700 --> 00:41:40,900
Right.
739
00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:47,620
And I think, and you know, if that's what they've done, how they feel, that's great and
740
00:41:47,620 --> 00:41:56,220
all, because forgiveness is often to help themselves, which is what they need.
741
00:41:56,220 --> 00:41:58,940
But no, I prefer hate.
742
00:41:58,940 --> 00:41:59,940
Yeah.
743
00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:00,940
I hate that guy.
744
00:42:00,940 --> 00:42:01,940
Yeah.
745
00:42:01,940 --> 00:42:02,940
I know.
746
00:42:02,940 --> 00:42:03,940
Don't know him.
747
00:42:03,940 --> 00:42:04,940
Never met him.
748
00:42:04,940 --> 00:42:05,940
Hope to never.
749
00:42:05,940 --> 00:42:06,940
Still hate him.
750
00:42:06,940 --> 00:42:07,940
Still hate him.
751
00:42:07,940 --> 00:42:08,940
Yeah.
752
00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:11,700
That's the party line in this house.
753
00:42:11,700 --> 00:42:12,700
And the dad's right.
754
00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:13,700
That's his legacy.
755
00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:15,740
That's all I know about this guy.
756
00:42:15,740 --> 00:42:20,660
Literally the only thing, you know, he is a piece of shit, yeah, every which way, every
757
00:42:20,660 --> 00:42:25,140
which way from here to Japan.
758
00:42:25,140 --> 00:42:34,940
On his way back to his seat, Larsen whispered, a clearly heard obscenity to Oatney, who replied,
759
00:42:34,940 --> 00:42:35,940
pardon?
760
00:42:35,940 --> 00:42:45,060
Pretty ballsy for a man who can now only be kept safe by the state.
761
00:42:45,060 --> 00:42:52,220
And there would not be a place you could run to that you would be safe for me if you did
762
00:42:52,220 --> 00:42:55,180
this to one of my family members.
763
00:42:55,180 --> 00:42:56,180
Yeah.
764
00:42:56,180 --> 00:43:02,780
Not that we're advocating for vigilante justice or violence to be clear.
765
00:43:02,780 --> 00:43:11,260
When Oatney addressed the court, because of course he's gonna, he again took the opportunity
766
00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:18,740
to blame the crime on his buddy Wilford because of course.
767
00:43:18,740 --> 00:43:26,340
He said of Susie that she was quote, "A beautiful person inside and out.
768
00:43:26,340 --> 00:43:30,020
I am happy to have known her.
769
00:43:30,020 --> 00:43:35,540
The absolute audacity of this man."
770
00:43:35,540 --> 00:43:45,060
But he goes on to say that the hatred and contempt of Susi's family toward him quote, "discraces
771
00:43:45,060 --> 00:43:47,980
Susi Larsen's name.
772
00:43:47,980 --> 00:43:54,460
If that makes them feel better about themselves, well, I hope that eases their pain.
773
00:43:54,460 --> 00:43:58,820
These people are praying to God that I be hurt and degraded.
774
00:43:58,820 --> 00:44:02,460
You people are not godly."
775
00:44:02,460 --> 00:44:03,700
No one's buying your shit.
776
00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:10,540
Yeah, I mean, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle, that really got me hot when I
777
00:44:10,540 --> 00:44:16,020
read that I was just like, you're saving any kind of face here.
778
00:44:16,020 --> 00:44:18,660
No, no.
779
00:44:18,660 --> 00:44:22,780
Even if that was a thousand percent, if you were innocent and that was a thousand percent
780
00:44:22,780 --> 00:44:30,660
the truth, you still look like the asshole.
781
00:44:30,660 --> 00:44:34,140
Another first of all, how fucking dare you?
782
00:44:34,140 --> 00:44:40,100
And second of all, none of what they've said to you publicly is even a fraction of what
783
00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:41,580
I'm sure they feel.
784
00:44:41,580 --> 00:44:46,300
Well, just be honest, they're certainly not alone in that.
785
00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:47,740
We're on board.
786
00:44:47,740 --> 00:44:54,940
The details of Susi's murder left many horrified and disgusted.
787
00:44:54,940 --> 00:45:00,620
Susi's fiance Keith spoke as well, stating she had been the love of his life.
788
00:45:00,620 --> 00:45:07,980
"That life was snuffed out by that man sitting there," he said, refusing to acknowledge her
789
00:45:07,980 --> 00:45:10,220
killer by name.
790
00:45:10,220 --> 00:45:16,740
It seems like only a few months ago that I stood along a rushing river and gave Susie a ring.
791
00:45:16,740 --> 00:45:22,100
I'll cherish that moment as the happiest moment in my life.
792
00:45:22,100 --> 00:45:28,460
Billy filed multiple appeals following his conviction and sentencing, which of course
793
00:45:28,460 --> 00:45:33,900
is not in common, but really fucking annoying.
794
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:37,740
But in 2015, he was actually successful.
795
00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:43,460
The Oregon Court of Appeals agreed that he should be granted a new trial based on inadequate
796
00:45:43,460 --> 00:45:45,700
assistance of counsel.
797
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:47,220
Here we go, Dan.
798
00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:48,380
Yeah.
799
00:45:48,380 --> 00:45:53,100
And honestly, I hate it, but they're not wrong.
800
00:45:53,100 --> 00:45:59,180
By the time his trial had gotten underway, Billy had a different attorney representing him,
801
00:45:59,180 --> 00:46:05,260
then the one representing him on the day he provided the damning recorded statement to
802
00:46:05,260 --> 00:46:06,780
authorities.
803
00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:15,220
That was October 23rd, and it is single-handedly what turned Wilford against him.
804
00:46:15,220 --> 00:46:20,900
He was aware that he had been promised immunity by the DA.
805
00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:26,500
When he said in the statements provided that date should have been used against him in
806
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:33,300
prosecution, the statement Wilford made in the case that incriminated Billy was only provided
807
00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:39,740
once he'd heard the recording of Billy's own statement.
808
00:46:39,740 --> 00:46:43,900
The former then led to Billy's arrest.
809
00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:46,740
It's fruit from a poison tree.
810
00:46:46,740 --> 00:46:50,180
Yeah, I was just going to say, "Further the poison is true."
811
00:46:50,180 --> 00:46:56,580
That's why you have to be so meticulous and careful about your evidence gathering and
812
00:46:56,580 --> 00:46:59,940
interviews and all of it.
813
00:46:59,940 --> 00:47:00,940
Yeah.
814
00:47:00,940 --> 00:47:06,460
One mistake, one misstep, it can take everything down.
815
00:47:06,460 --> 00:47:08,020
Yeah.
816
00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:14,900
His attorney had the opportunity to read through the immunity agreement as well as his transcribed
817
00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:17,140
official statement.
818
00:47:17,140 --> 00:47:23,340
He argued in court that not only should Wilford statements not be used in court, but neither
819
00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:28,180
should any of the derivative evidence that came from them.
820
00:47:28,180 --> 00:47:34,660
The judge granted this motion, but Billy's attorney never raised the issue with Wilford
821
00:47:34,660 --> 00:47:36,860
statements at trial.
822
00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:40,460
So he brought it up, but then it was like he just forgot.
823
00:47:40,460 --> 00:47:41,460
Whoops.
824
00:47:41,460 --> 00:47:43,980
Yep.
825
00:47:43,980 --> 00:47:49,100
He would later state that he thought the statements made by Wilford were not covered
826
00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:57,620
by the immunity agreement, which kind of makes sense because whatever Wilford says is
827
00:47:57,620 --> 00:47:59,940
separate from whatever your claim is saying.
828
00:47:59,940 --> 00:48:09,020
Like in that respect, maybe I could see it, but sir, sir, you are a lawyer.
829
00:48:09,020 --> 00:48:15,180
It was weird, since he filed a motion to suppress them, and that was actually granted, but you
830
00:48:15,180 --> 00:48:23,260
know, makes it seem like his legal representation was possibly either day drinking through the
831
00:48:23,260 --> 00:48:28,700
trial or just extremely ineffectual, either way, not exactly ideal.
832
00:48:28,700 --> 00:48:29,700
Could be both.
833
00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:30,700
Two things can be true.
834
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:32,740
I'm not proud about it.
835
00:48:32,740 --> 00:48:33,740
Yeah.
836
00:48:33,740 --> 00:48:37,820
Well, there were some people that were mad about it.
837
00:48:37,820 --> 00:48:43,220
Wilford's court of appeals pointed out that at the pre-trial hearing his attorney did raise
838
00:48:43,220 --> 00:48:51,500
the issue, but they could not understand why he didn't continue doing so at trial, just
839
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:53,420
kind of when it counts.
840
00:48:53,420 --> 00:48:54,420
For a point.
841
00:48:54,420 --> 00:48:55,620
Yep.
842
00:48:55,620 --> 00:49:01,380
The prosecution's case dating back to 1996 was based on the statements and really not
843
00:49:01,380 --> 00:49:10,540
a whole lot else because we also didn't have super advanced forensic DNA testing.
844
00:49:10,540 --> 00:49:11,860
Not great.
845
00:49:11,860 --> 00:49:16,300
They had the blood found in his apartment that they linked to Susie, but back then it was
846
00:49:16,300 --> 00:49:17,860
only a blood type match.
847
00:49:17,860 --> 00:49:21,500
So not exactly a slam dunk.
848
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:28,220
In January of 2023, his second trial got underway.
849
00:49:28,220 --> 00:49:34,860
According to the new trial, Susi's sister Mindy said, "It just feels wrong.
850
00:49:34,860 --> 00:49:41,380
You want a fair trial for everybody involved, but a fair trial is having the jury hear all
851
00:49:41,380 --> 00:49:43,580
the evidence.
852
00:49:43,580 --> 00:49:47,220
And this time around, it's not the case.
853
00:49:47,220 --> 00:49:53,340
We know too much, and the frustration is tough."
854
00:49:53,340 --> 00:49:58,500
She spoke about the difficulty of testifying in her sister's case, again, stating that
855
00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:04,020
she found it particularly challenging to be able to provide what felt like complete
856
00:50:04,020 --> 00:50:11,580
answers in some cases due to some of the prior evidence no longer being allowed.
857
00:50:11,580 --> 00:50:12,580
Yeah.
858
00:50:12,580 --> 00:50:13,580
That's understandable.
859
00:50:13,580 --> 00:50:20,740
Really tricky because this is just a person who's, you know, ostensibly a witness, you
860
00:50:20,740 --> 00:50:27,380
know, they're testifying, but they're not directly involved, obviously, in the crime itself.
861
00:50:27,380 --> 00:50:31,660
And they're not very well acquainted with legal system.
862
00:50:31,660 --> 00:50:36,380
That's, it's a lot to ask.
863
00:50:36,380 --> 00:50:43,500
I just, I can't even fathom the frustration that she must have felt.
864
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:48,460
She's been vocal about her sister's case since she was taken from their family nearly
865
00:50:48,460 --> 00:50:52,300
three decades ago.
866
00:50:52,300 --> 00:51:01,260
On Tuesday, February 7, 2023, at age 60, Billy Oatney Jr. was convicted of murder in the
867
00:51:01,260 --> 00:51:11,580
first degree for the 1996 sexual assault and murder of Susi Larsen for the second time.
868
00:51:11,580 --> 00:51:17,540
The jury was permitted to hear about his previous violent history, including his prior conviction
869
00:51:17,540 --> 00:51:19,580
for attempted murder.
870
00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:24,740
That took place in Japan when he was a service member.
871
00:51:24,740 --> 00:51:33,020
They found that he had not been deterred from violent acts previously, noting the short
872
00:51:33,020 --> 00:51:38,620
time between his release and Susi's death.
873
00:51:38,620 --> 00:51:47,500
Additionally, just days after murdering Susi, Billy had been stalking a exotic dancer.
874
00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:53,180
And told friends he wanted to make her his love slave.
875
00:51:53,180 --> 00:51:54,180
"Yuck."
876
00:51:54,180 --> 00:51:56,300
Yeah.
877
00:51:56,300 --> 00:52:06,020
So clearly he didn't see any need to stop his criminal and violent behavior against women.
878
00:52:06,020 --> 00:52:11,980
Ultimately, the jury felt there was no possibility of rehabilitation for Billy.
879
00:52:11,980 --> 00:52:13,460
"I agree."
880
00:52:13,460 --> 00:52:14,460
Yeah.
881
00:52:14,460 --> 00:52:18,220
Finally, making the right choice.
882
00:52:18,220 --> 00:52:23,820
Taking this into account following his second conviction, the judge sentenced him to life
883
00:52:23,820 --> 00:52:28,020
without the possibility of wrong.
884
00:52:28,020 --> 00:52:33,700
And all I have to say is, "Syanara Sakha."
885
00:52:33,700 --> 00:52:37,180
You had me worried with this whole new trial thing.
886
00:52:37,180 --> 00:52:39,540
I didn't know which way this was going to go.
887
00:52:39,540 --> 00:52:41,140
It wasn't looking good.
888
00:52:41,140 --> 00:52:43,540
It's a wild case.
889
00:52:43,540 --> 00:52:51,860
Anytime that they are granted an appeal at that point and so many years later, like that
890
00:52:51,860 --> 00:52:55,780
too, it definitely just makes you a little bit nervous.
891
00:52:55,780 --> 00:53:03,180
But I think that unfortunately, even if they, fortunately or unfortunately, just depending
892
00:53:03,180 --> 00:53:10,700
on which side you're on, after that much time has passed, a lot of times the technology
893
00:53:10,700 --> 00:53:19,660
and the different resources that we have available to nail your super creeper-ass, they're that
894
00:53:19,660 --> 00:53:20,660
much better.
895
00:53:20,660 --> 00:53:24,380
So it's unfortunate for Billy, I suppose.
896
00:53:24,380 --> 00:53:26,700
But do you even care about that?
897
00:53:26,700 --> 00:53:34,060
Yeah, but I mean for the family to have to go through all of that again, regardless
898
00:53:34,060 --> 00:53:36,660
of the outcome.
899
00:53:36,660 --> 00:53:39,380
That was those tough.
900
00:53:39,380 --> 00:53:46,740
Yeah, and seeing the interviews that her sister did with a number of local news channels
901
00:53:46,740 --> 00:53:55,660
and things, I can really tell the toll that that took on her personally.
902
00:53:55,660 --> 00:53:59,780
I believe at this point both of their parents have passed.
903
00:53:59,780 --> 00:54:06,820
So I do think that's another layer of difficulty because that puts a lot of the weight on her
904
00:54:06,820 --> 00:54:13,060
shoulders to really see this through.
905
00:54:13,060 --> 00:54:25,340
Another super creepy detail about this case, the apartments where she was killed, they're
906
00:54:25,340 --> 00:54:31,060
untiegored, have driven by them.
907
00:54:31,060 --> 00:54:33,860
Probably a ton of times, I know of them.
908
00:54:33,860 --> 00:54:42,020
As soon as I heard the name of the complex, it's called, I believe, "brighten apartments."
909
00:54:42,020 --> 00:54:45,820
I was like, "You've got to be kidding me."
910
00:54:45,820 --> 00:54:54,620
These are, I know, it's just all of these places that, you know, in Champoeg Park, God,
911
00:54:54,620 --> 00:54:58,620
why you got a ruined old, like, come on.
912
00:54:58,620 --> 00:55:01,860
You are choosing cases in your neck of the woods.
913
00:55:01,860 --> 00:55:03,380
I know, I know.
914
00:55:03,380 --> 00:55:06,180
It's true, it's true.
915
00:55:06,180 --> 00:55:09,940
It's kind of like, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to drink another glass of wine and then I'm surprised
916
00:55:09,940 --> 00:55:10,940
that I'm drunk."
917
00:55:10,940 --> 00:55:15,500
How did this happen?
918
00:55:15,500 --> 00:55:16,500
Who let this happen?
919
00:55:16,500 --> 00:55:20,340
Who is in charge here?
920
00:55:20,340 --> 00:55:27,340
[Cassie in deep voice] I'm Chris the husband.
921
00:55:27,340 --> 00:55:29,060
Okay.
922
00:55:29,060 --> 00:55:31,060
So tarot.
923
00:55:31,060 --> 00:55:32,060
Tarot.
924
00:55:32,060 --> 00:55:35,260
So I did read this episode.
925
00:55:35,260 --> 00:55:36,260
You did.
926
00:55:36,260 --> 00:55:37,260
Yes.
927
00:55:37,260 --> 00:55:41,940
So I'm excited to see what Chris did with it.
928
00:55:41,940 --> 00:55:44,220
He was like, "You're so right.
929
00:55:44,220 --> 00:55:47,220
You did pick my unique nightmare fuel."
930
00:55:47,220 --> 00:55:48,220
Did he cry?
931
00:55:48,220 --> 00:55:49,220
You guys didn't cry.
932
00:55:49,220 --> 00:55:50,220
He didn't cry.
933
00:55:50,220 --> 00:55:53,460
You can't marry him.
934
00:55:53,460 --> 00:55:54,460
I know.
935
00:55:54,460 --> 00:55:55,460
I'm stopping the wedding.
936
00:55:55,460 --> 00:55:56,460
If someone says, "Who objects?"
937
00:55:56,460 --> 00:55:57,940
I'm going to be like, "I object."
938
00:55:57,940 --> 00:55:58,940
I would never.
939
00:55:58,940 --> 00:55:59,940
No.
940
00:55:59,940 --> 00:56:00,940
Okay.
941
00:56:00,940 --> 00:56:08,140
Well, I'm excited to listen, but Chris didn't want to do tarot.
942
00:56:08,140 --> 00:56:11,740
He was like, "That's too witchy for me."
943
00:56:11,740 --> 00:56:16,980
Well, honestly, I think he's a little bit freaked out by the readings that he's seen
944
00:56:16,980 --> 00:56:24,380
me go to like close family members and friends and maybe some of the readings I've given
945
00:56:24,380 --> 00:56:26,780
to him himself.
946
00:56:26,780 --> 00:56:27,780
Is she the witchy bitch?
947
00:56:27,780 --> 00:56:29,980
I'm a witchy bitch.
948
00:56:29,980 --> 00:56:31,540
It says so on the wine glass.
949
00:56:31,540 --> 00:56:36,260
Like it's hard to read with like the lights and everything, but I didn't think about that.
950
00:56:36,260 --> 00:56:37,260
Witchy bitch.
951
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:38,260
Witchy bitch.
952
00:56:38,260 --> 00:56:39,260
I didn't think about that.
953
00:56:39,260 --> 00:56:40,260
Witchy bitch.
954
00:56:40,260 --> 00:56:41,260
Witchy bitch.
955
00:56:41,260 --> 00:56:42,260
I didn't think about that.
956
00:56:42,260 --> 00:56:43,260
Witchy bitch.
957
00:56:43,260 --> 00:56:44,260
Witchy bitch.
958
00:56:44,260 --> 00:56:45,260
I didn't think about that.
959
00:56:45,260 --> 00:56:46,260
Witchy bitch.
960
00:56:46,260 --> 00:56:48,260
It's fine.
961
00:56:48,260 --> 00:56:57,260
Yeah, I think it's important to know that we are very open right now.
962
00:56:57,260 --> 00:57:06,940
We have waited until we were two glasses of wine in to go ahead and do the tarot.
963
00:57:06,940 --> 00:57:12,140
So like we're very, we're very open spiritually.
964
00:57:12,140 --> 00:57:13,140
Spiritual way.
965
00:57:13,140 --> 00:57:14,340
Okay.
966
00:57:14,340 --> 00:57:18,060
I feel like I'm like kind of, you probably can't really tell.
967
00:57:18,060 --> 00:57:22,460
I'm about a thirdish of the way into the deck.
968
00:57:22,460 --> 00:57:25,460
Does that feel okay?
969
00:57:25,460 --> 00:57:26,460
Oh, okay.
970
00:57:26,460 --> 00:57:28,460
Oh, interesting.
971
00:57:28,460 --> 00:57:31,060
Two of cups.
972
00:57:31,060 --> 00:57:35,820
The imagery I feel like kind of works in the traditional deck.
973
00:57:35,820 --> 00:57:38,180
I have something to say.
974
00:57:38,180 --> 00:57:39,180
What?
975
00:57:39,180 --> 00:57:41,780
This is basically like the lover's card number two.
976
00:57:41,780 --> 00:57:42,780
Kind of.
977
00:57:42,780 --> 00:57:49,060
On this card, when we were doing, like we were about to do your proposal thing for your
978
00:57:49,060 --> 00:57:54,260
wedding, we pulled the two cups and I was like, shit, don't give her any idea.
979
00:57:54,260 --> 00:57:55,260
Oh my gosh.
980
00:57:55,260 --> 00:57:58,660
And you thought I was going to pick up on something and I was like, boom, boom, boom,
981
00:57:58,660 --> 00:57:59,660
boom.
982
00:57:59,660 --> 00:58:01,660
I was like, oh my, you'll get better.
983
00:58:01,660 --> 00:58:02,660
You're in here.
984
00:58:02,660 --> 00:58:03,660
You're in here.
985
00:58:03,660 --> 00:58:04,660
And you want to hear that.
986
00:58:04,660 --> 00:58:06,660
Go back a year or two.
987
00:58:06,660 --> 00:58:07,660
A yearish?
988
00:58:07,660 --> 00:58:08,660
You're not.
989
00:58:08,660 --> 00:58:10,660
When did you happen?
990
00:58:10,660 --> 00:58:16,060
Okay, well, this is kind of freaky because it made sense then.
991
00:58:16,060 --> 00:58:19,060
It makes sense now.
992
00:58:19,060 --> 00:58:29,140
Two of cups are keywords are partnership, harmony, creative exchange and cooperation.
993
00:58:29,140 --> 00:58:35,020
In many decks, the two of cups shows a man and woman holding chalices as if toasting
994
00:58:35,020 --> 00:58:39,660
each other or like literally standing in front of an altar.
995
00:58:39,660 --> 00:58:41,460
Yeah.
996
00:58:41,460 --> 00:58:48,540
The card represents joining forces with someone either romantically or in a creative spiritual
997
00:58:48,540 --> 00:58:49,780
endeavor.
998
00:58:49,780 --> 00:58:55,940
Now this works twofold, I think, when it comes to this case.
999
00:58:55,940 --> 00:58:56,940
Okay.
1000
00:58:56,940 --> 00:59:02,340
So I think this applies to romantic partners in this case and I think it also works in
1001
00:59:02,340 --> 00:59:05,620
like a, you know, criminal partnership in this case.
1002
00:59:05,620 --> 00:59:07,420
Yeah.
1003
00:59:07,420 --> 00:59:13,900
You share a common dream, interest or passion and can work together to bring it into being
1004
00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:18,060
or maybe you literally already work together at Mattel.
1005
00:59:18,060 --> 00:59:19,060
Yeah.
1006
00:59:19,060 --> 00:59:20,060
Oh.
1007
00:59:20,060 --> 00:59:21,060
I know.
1008
00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:22,060
I know.
1009
00:59:22,060 --> 00:59:23,060
I know.
1010
00:59:23,060 --> 00:59:26,860
It's kind of heartbreaking.
1011
00:59:26,860 --> 00:59:30,060
It really is.
1012
00:59:30,060 --> 00:59:35,860
Mutual respect and equality exist between you.
1013
00:59:35,860 --> 00:59:42,860
The upright two indicates a period of harmony when things go smoothly between you and another
1014
00:59:42,860 --> 00:59:43,860
person.
1015
00:59:43,860 --> 00:59:49,140
Did I, because like I've read this a while ago, did they have this at first?
1016
00:59:49,140 --> 00:59:51,300
Like, did they have this like harmony?
1017
00:59:51,300 --> 00:59:52,300
Well, okay.
1018
00:59:52,300 --> 00:59:58,580
So the thing that's important to remember about this case is that Sissy was not murdered
1019
00:59:58,580 --> 01:00:00,380
by her partner.
1020
01:00:00,380 --> 01:00:04,740
This is an outside, it's a third party.
1021
01:00:04,740 --> 01:00:10,900
So her relationship, I mean, it couldn't have been happier in terms of her romantic partnership.
1022
01:00:10,900 --> 01:00:18,500
She was supposed to get married like two weeks after her disappearance.
1023
01:00:18,500 --> 01:00:24,740
And you may recall that she was actually laid to rest on what would have been her wedding
1024
01:00:24,740 --> 01:00:25,740
day.
1025
01:00:25,740 --> 01:00:26,740
Yeah.
1026
01:00:26,740 --> 01:00:27,740
I remember that part.
1027
01:00:27,740 --> 01:00:28,740
Yeah.
1028
01:00:28,740 --> 01:00:35,740
I think of this as the honeymoon car.
1029
01:00:35,740 --> 01:00:39,740
Oh my god.
1030
01:00:39,740 --> 01:00:40,740
Stop.
1031
01:00:40,740 --> 01:00:41,740
I know.
1032
01:00:41,740 --> 01:00:42,740
I know.
1033
01:00:42,740 --> 01:00:43,740
Oh god.
1034
01:00:43,740 --> 01:00:44,740
It makes sense.
1035
01:00:44,740 --> 01:00:45,740
But it's, yeah.
1036
01:00:45,740 --> 01:00:46,740
Oh, she's getting more.
1037
01:00:46,740 --> 01:00:47,740
No, we're fine.
1038
01:00:47,740 --> 01:00:48,740
No, we're fine.
1039
01:00:48,740 --> 01:00:55,740
When you have high hopes and experience a time of accord optimism, inspiration and good
1040
01:00:55,740 --> 01:01:03,740
wealth in a reading about money, the upright to suggest a financial partnership or merging
1041
01:01:03,740 --> 01:01:12,340
your resources with someone else's for a mutual gain.
1042
01:01:12,340 --> 01:01:18,180
It can also mean financial support comes from a partner or a backer.
1043
01:01:18,180 --> 01:01:23,340
If the reading is about your job, this car describes a partnership that benefits both
1044
01:01:23,340 --> 01:01:25,060
people.
1045
01:01:25,060 --> 01:01:32,060
You inspire one another and enjoy working together, literally working together.
1046
01:01:32,060 --> 01:01:33,060
Yeah.
1047
01:01:33,060 --> 01:01:39,060
It can also represent cooperation and creative collaboration in your workplace.
1048
01:01:39,060 --> 01:01:40,060
Wow.
1049
01:01:40,060 --> 01:01:42,060
I mean, that's crazy.
1050
01:01:42,060 --> 01:01:52,780
I mean, the fact that that is so spot on is just, yeah, if in a reading about love, the
1051
01:01:52,780 --> 01:01:58,820
two upright symbolizes a happy relationship that's developing smoothly.
1052
01:01:58,820 --> 01:02:04,740
You understand each other's needs and bring out the best in one another.
1053
01:02:04,740 --> 01:02:09,780
This card shows harmony, balance, and mutual respect between two parties.
1054
01:02:09,780 --> 01:02:10,780
Wow.
1055
01:02:10,780 --> 01:02:15,580
Well, that just makes me sad because like this is all of the things like it was going to
1056
01:02:15,580 --> 01:02:17,900
be a shut of then and yeah.
1057
01:02:17,900 --> 01:02:19,700
And then it didn't be his.
1058
01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:21,980
And then it was a stupid shit.
1059
01:02:21,980 --> 01:02:22,980
Interesting.
1060
01:02:22,980 --> 01:02:23,980
Okay.
1061
01:02:23,980 --> 01:02:27,460
I just, I had to see.
1062
01:02:27,460 --> 01:02:32,220
I just, I just needed to know it's the Queen of Swords and Reverse.
1063
01:02:32,220 --> 01:02:33,220
Oh.
1064
01:02:33,220 --> 01:02:34,220
Okay.
1065
01:02:34,220 --> 01:02:36,220
Queen of Swords.
1066
01:02:36,220 --> 01:02:46,380
Keywords are intelligence, independence, authority, objectivity, and communication.
1067
01:02:46,380 --> 01:02:51,740
The Queen of Swords is the female counterpart of the king, except she represents the
1068
01:02:51,740 --> 01:03:00,140
creative side of the mental process, the novelist rather than the accountant.
1069
01:03:00,140 --> 01:03:07,460
It seems she was a graphic designer, so that feels, yeah.
1070
01:03:07,460 --> 01:03:15,580
In some decks, she sits on the throne, wearing a crown and a luxurious, wearing a crown and
1071
01:03:15,580 --> 01:03:20,700
a luxurious robe holding a sword.
1072
01:03:20,700 --> 01:03:26,900
The Aquarian Tarot pictures her crown, but sands throne, wielding her sword as a woman
1073
01:03:26,900 --> 01:03:32,020
warrior, sort of a Joan of Arc or a theme of figure.
1074
01:03:32,020 --> 01:03:33,520
Oh.
1075
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:39,700
In a reading, she may represent an actual person, in which case, she's usually a mature woman
1076
01:03:39,700 --> 01:03:44,260
known for her intelligence, independence, and inner strength.
1077
01:03:44,260 --> 01:03:52,020
When the Queen appears reversed, you may feel trapped, limited, unable to speak your own
1078
01:03:52,020 --> 01:03:53,900
truth.
1079
01:03:53,900 --> 01:04:01,940
She could indicate disappointments at work or home, broken promises, hopes that didn't
1080
01:04:01,940 --> 01:04:03,340
manifest.
1081
01:04:03,340 --> 01:04:10,340
Didn't the other one say like it was all about like the hope or something?
1082
01:04:10,340 --> 01:04:15,540
You may feel you haven't been given a chance to show yourself or you've been handed a puny
1083
01:04:15,540 --> 01:04:18,900
piece of the pie.
1084
01:04:18,900 --> 01:04:28,940
Perhaps you can't move beyond a loss or your emotions are interfering with your judgment.
1085
01:04:28,940 --> 01:04:34,300
In a reading about money, this card can mean you let your emotions rather than your intellect
1086
01:04:34,300 --> 01:04:37,060
guide a financial matter.
1087
01:04:37,060 --> 01:04:43,540
It may also suggest you've gotten bad advice or not investigated a situation adequately
1088
01:04:43,540 --> 01:04:46,660
and consequently incurred losses.
1089
01:04:46,660 --> 01:04:49,460
Oh, holy shit.
1090
01:04:49,460 --> 01:04:54,420
This Queen warns, read the fine print.
1091
01:04:54,420 --> 01:05:01,380
The reversed Queen may represent the glass ceiling women still face.
1092
01:05:01,380 --> 01:05:11,460
In a reading about love, this card suggests bitterness caused by disappointments or losses.
1093
01:05:11,460 --> 01:05:19,060
As a result, you may swear off relationships and isolate yourself.
1094
01:05:19,060 --> 01:05:25,620
Sometimes the Queen reversed shows an overly critical nature, inflexibility, or coolness
1095
01:05:25,620 --> 01:05:27,420
toward a partner.
1096
01:05:27,420 --> 01:05:30,660
I mean, it's that first one.
1097
01:05:30,660 --> 01:05:37,660
I was like by no fault of either of their own.
1098
01:05:37,660 --> 01:05:45,300
Did he ever like read Mary after?
1099
01:05:45,300 --> 01:05:51,740
I'm trying to remember from the source material because I think outside of speaking at the original
1100
01:05:51,740 --> 01:05:58,940
sentencing, I don't think that there have been any particular updates that I have seen
1101
01:05:58,940 --> 01:06:02,380
about her fiancee.
1102
01:06:02,380 --> 01:06:11,060
I think probably a lot of that has to do with the only way to move on in that situation
1103
01:06:11,060 --> 01:06:20,540
for him might have been that after he's sentenced and he's sent to prison, I have to separate
1104
01:06:20,540 --> 01:06:23,260
myself from this.
1105
01:06:23,260 --> 01:06:33,980
For sure, because I feel like there would be something about this is someone that you thought
1106
01:06:33,980 --> 01:06:37,220
you were going to spend the rest of your life with.
1107
01:06:37,220 --> 01:06:44,180
They were so young.
1108
01:06:44,180 --> 01:06:51,780
He still had so much life ahead of him and he really did have to...
1109
01:06:51,780 --> 01:07:00,780
He would have to try in some respect to compartmentalize this in order to be able to go on to have a
1110
01:07:00,780 --> 01:07:09,260
life, whereas someone in her family who has their partner and they have the support of
1111
01:07:09,260 --> 01:07:20,780
their family long term, I think you're just approaching those things so differently.
1112
01:07:20,780 --> 01:07:31,100
You have to grieve that in a different way and let go of that person in a different way.
1113
01:07:31,100 --> 01:07:35,340
It's so hard.
1114
01:07:35,340 --> 01:07:39,580
I can't imagine.
1115
01:07:39,580 --> 01:07:47,900
I've had so many horrific flashes of just intrusive thoughts or horrific daydreams about
1116
01:07:47,900 --> 01:07:54,900
something happening.
1117
01:07:54,900 --> 01:08:05,300
I don't know how anyone moves on, but for this particular situation, the fact that you
1118
01:08:05,300 --> 01:08:13,020
are just weeks away from your wedding, I couldn't wrap my head around it.
1119
01:08:13,020 --> 01:08:15,420
I really didn't want to throw up.
1120
01:08:15,420 --> 01:08:16,420
Yeah.
1121
01:08:16,420 --> 01:08:18,420
My mouth is good and watery.
1122
01:08:18,420 --> 01:08:19,420
Yeah.
1123
01:08:19,420 --> 01:08:21,420
Well, those cards worked.
1124
01:08:21,420 --> 01:08:23,420
I mean, wow.
1125
01:08:23,420 --> 01:08:33,900
I don't know that I've had a reading that has felt so like that just resonated in a way that
1126
01:08:33,900 --> 01:08:35,700
I'm really glad I pulled that second one.
1127
01:08:35,700 --> 01:08:36,700
Yeah.
1128
01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:38,700
I knew you were going to, was that weird?
1129
01:08:38,700 --> 01:08:40,500
Kind of, because I didn't know until I did it.
1130
01:08:40,500 --> 01:08:41,580
I knew as soon as you pulled.
1131
01:08:41,580 --> 01:08:45,340
I knew as soon as you pulled this other one, like I knew it would work, but like I knew
1132
01:08:45,340 --> 01:08:47,820
that you were going to have to pull a different one.
1133
01:08:47,820 --> 01:08:48,820
Yeah.
1134
01:08:48,820 --> 01:08:52,620
Just based off of what it was, I was like, this is too like feel good.
1135
01:08:52,620 --> 01:08:56,300
I know this is like what, obviously I'm altered.
1136
01:08:56,300 --> 01:09:00,420
This is like the vibe we were going for, like the couples and the, yeah.
1137
01:09:00,420 --> 01:09:05,980
All the things that should have been, but you know what's weird about this is I just realized
1138
01:09:05,980 --> 01:09:12,660
that pulling a second card in this moment, like I wouldn't have, I never planned to
1139
01:09:12,660 --> 01:09:13,660
pull another card.
1140
01:09:13,660 --> 01:09:19,660
I always plan on it being one card and I'm, if anything, I'm resistant to pulling additional
1141
01:09:19,660 --> 01:09:27,980
cards, but it makes sense because I mean, this is a situation where he had two trials.
1142
01:09:27,980 --> 01:09:28,980
Right.
1143
01:09:28,980 --> 01:09:33,220
Two of cops, two trials and two cards.
1144
01:09:33,220 --> 01:09:34,460
Two people on the altar.
1145
01:09:34,460 --> 01:09:36,220
We have the 11, 11.
1146
01:09:36,220 --> 01:09:37,220
Yeah.
1147
01:09:37,220 --> 01:09:38,220
Oh, God.
1148
01:09:38,220 --> 01:09:45,220
Should we just like talk about this beautiful candle or a book?
1149
01:09:45,220 --> 01:09:47,220
Yeah, Chris and I talked about it a little bit.
1150
01:09:47,220 --> 01:09:48,220
Yeah.
1151
01:09:48,220 --> 01:09:49,220
Well, we can talk about it.
1152
01:09:49,220 --> 01:09:52,460
Oh, I was like, did you just like show the butts or what we didn't know show the butt.
1153
01:09:52,460 --> 01:09:53,460
Should we show the butts?
1154
01:09:53,460 --> 01:09:54,460
Show the butts.
1155
01:09:54,460 --> 01:09:57,700
We need a little pick me up, I think after this.
1156
01:09:57,700 --> 01:09:59,140
God, fuck me up.
1157
01:09:59,140 --> 01:10:07,420
That was, um, I guess the joke saw me because I was like, oh my gosh, I figured out, I figured
1158
01:10:07,420 --> 01:10:12,660
out what's going to really like set everybody off right before the wedding.
1159
01:10:12,660 --> 01:10:15,020
And I was like, I guess I forgot, I'm everybody.
1160
01:10:15,020 --> 01:10:17,660
Let me just fuck myself off of my way.
1161
01:10:17,660 --> 01:10:18,660
Yeah.
1162
01:10:18,660 --> 01:10:24,620
Well, yeah, naturally because I'm like obviously deeply sticking the head and a little bit
1163
01:10:24,620 --> 01:10:27,620
of a massacres, but what are you going to do?
1164
01:10:27,620 --> 01:10:28,620
You know?
1165
01:10:28,620 --> 01:10:29,620
Cry on camera.
1166
01:10:29,620 --> 01:10:30,620
No, you've got it.
1167
01:10:30,620 --> 01:10:35,820
It's great for your makeup and I'm not at all sniffly.
1168
01:10:35,820 --> 01:10:38,060
You don't sound at all measly.
1169
01:10:38,060 --> 01:10:39,060
It's fun.
1170
01:10:39,060 --> 01:10:44,900
Well, I'm glad I don't have to sit here for this whole episode and I just got to read it
1171
01:10:44,900 --> 01:10:50,020
and skimp as need be.
1172
01:10:50,020 --> 01:10:52,060
And then you got like the fun part, the tarot.
1173
01:10:52,060 --> 01:10:57,060
Yeah, I got the fun part.
1174
01:10:57,060 --> 01:11:00,660
I mean, sometimes you just need a good cry.
1175
01:11:00,660 --> 01:11:05,100
Well, I'm going to go cry off camera.
1176
01:11:05,100 --> 01:11:06,100
She's not.
1177
01:11:06,100 --> 01:11:07,780
We might go get a snack though.
1178
01:11:07,780 --> 01:11:08,780
I'm okay with that.
1179
01:11:08,780 --> 01:11:10,540
That would probably rejuvenate us.
1180
01:11:10,540 --> 01:11:13,380
I might cry eating snacks because they'd be so good.
1181
01:11:13,380 --> 01:11:15,380
They're so good.
1182
01:11:15,380 --> 01:11:17,380
They're so good.
1183
01:11:17,380 --> 01:11:18,380
All right.
1184
01:11:18,380 --> 01:11:19,380
Have a great day.
1185
01:11:19,380 --> 01:11:20,380
Have a great day.
1186
01:11:20,380 --> 01:11:21,380
Have a great day.
1187
01:11:21,380 --> 01:11:22,380
Have a great day.
1188
01:11:22,380 --> 01:11:26,340
We'll see you next Wednesday or whenever.
1189
01:11:26,340 --> 01:11:30,580
Oh, I didn't know that you guys are still saying that.
1190
01:11:30,580 --> 01:11:31,580
Whoops.
1191
01:11:31,580 --> 01:11:32,580
I said, waiting.
1192
01:11:32,580 --> 01:11:37,540
You said, waiting, that you said Monday.
1193
01:11:37,540 --> 01:11:41,780
I didn't know it was like you next Wednesday.
1194
01:11:41,780 --> 01:11:45,380
Just thought Joe Connuss, because none of us are getting married ever again.
1195
01:11:45,380 --> 01:11:47,620
No, no, no.
1196
01:11:47,620 --> 01:11:50,300
I will never do this again.
1197
01:11:50,300 --> 01:11:52,900
I'm surprised my hair is not fully now.
1198
01:11:52,900 --> 01:11:54,420
I'm glad that it's not.
1199
01:11:54,420 --> 01:11:55,420
Yeah.
1200
01:11:55,420 --> 01:11:56,420
She's not gone.
1201
01:11:56,420 --> 01:11:57,420
What?
1202
01:11:57,420 --> 01:12:04,420
What's to do this?
1203
01:12:04,420 --> 01:12:05,980
All right.
1204
01:12:05,980 --> 01:12:08,140
I'm like, who should start?
1205
01:12:08,140 --> 01:12:11,340
Because when I say hi, I'm going to be saying hi, Chris.
1206
01:12:11,340 --> 01:12:15,260
And when you say hi, it'll be obvious that you're not Cassie.
1207
01:12:15,260 --> 01:12:18,660
I will do my best to sound like her.
1208
01:12:18,660 --> 01:12:19,660
Hello.
1209
01:12:19,660 --> 01:12:20,660
Hello.
1210
01:12:20,660 --> 01:12:21,660
Hello. (pnwhauntsandhomicides.com)
