Disturbing Realities & Broken Justice

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,760 How a case is approached from minute one matters. 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:16,120 Because one misstep can leave so much room for speculation, for doubt, and ultimately, 3 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:22,960 a completely solvable case may end up in a stack of unsolved cold cases or become 4 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:38,720 a conspiracy theory where no one can agree on a firm accounting of many of the facts. 5 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:39,720 Hi Cassie. 6 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:40,720 Hi Caitlyn. 7 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:42,520 Hi creepy people. 8 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:43,520 Hello. 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:44,520 Hello. 10 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:50,680 If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat 11 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:58,120 about true crime, paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest. 12 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:05,000 We also do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for deeper insight into our topic. 13 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,120 So make sure you stick around if you're into that witchy goodness. 14 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:15,160 All right, so today while you're listening to this more than likely, it's Halloween, 15 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,480 that's the day we're releasing this episode. 16 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,680 So I am so excited. 17 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,680 I love Halloween. 18 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,680 I love Halloween. 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:25,680 Halloweeny. 20 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:26,680 I like weenies too. 21 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:27,680 Oh boy. 22 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,680 Well, get a good chuckle in now. 23 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,680 Cause I'm going to I'm going to quash that laughter. 24 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:36,680 Yeah, I know. 25 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,560 Yeah, it's kind of my thing. 26 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:44,800 You guys, I just have to start this episode by saying that real life and particularly true 27 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,480 crime, well, they're both pretty messy. 28 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,080 Kind of like when I was trying to put those little drinks skewers on with our fancy rosemary 29 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:55,880 and apple. 30 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,720 It's a pretty looking cocktail though. 31 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,440 Yeah, you'd never know that there was a mess involved. 32 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,840 Yeah, but there was. 33 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:09,160 This wasn't exactly what I thought I was getting into when I started researching the case. 34 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:15,480 And I might have considered going with a different case for Halloween under different circumstances. 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:22,320 Maybe something from a bygone era that allowed us all to get a little bit of distance. 36 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:28,040 Celebrate in a more lighthearted way and maybe you'll wish that I did. 37 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,480 I hope not. 38 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,560 We can all be fun in games all the time. 39 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:33,560 This is true. 40 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:34,560 This is true. 41 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,040 That's not life, baby. 42 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:41,560 But this case has almost ripped me in half. 43 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,360 I swear. 44 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,040 It's more times than I can count. 45 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:51,520 It made me angry and I hope there's a lot about this story that makes you angry but also 46 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,120 makes you think. 47 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:59,360 I know that we can't all be out changing the very fabric of society each and every day 48 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,080 as individuals. 49 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:08,040 But we can refuse to look away and we can sit in uncomfortable spaces in the hopes of 50 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,080 growing. 51 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,920 Please come with us. 52 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:17,120 I mean, uncomfortable is nice sometimes, right? 53 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,000 It makes you enjoy the comfortable. 54 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,400 I'm hoping that's what everybody is going to say. 55 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,240 Well, I said it for them. 56 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,680 Perfect. 57 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:33,720 Now you'll recall we were discussing Emanual Fair's trial. 58 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:40,200 That's the short little mini sneak peak clip, if you will, that was part of our Halloween 59 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,200 collaboration. 60 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,000 That's the case we're talking about today. 61 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Spoilers. 62 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,000 Not really spoilers. 63 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,520 No, not at all. 64 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,200 Unless you haven't listened to it, go back, maybe. 65 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:53,960 Yeah, I would say. 66 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,520 And there's two parts to the collaboration. 67 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:02,120 If somehow you missed part two, drop in, go back and listen to that. 68 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,960 I'm sure there's some fun creepy stuff in there too. 69 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,920 We're actually in part two. 70 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,040 This case truly spans decades already. 71 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:17,280 Investigators could not establish an exact time of death, instead speculating that our 72 00:04:17,280 --> 00:04:24,040 panna had died at some point early in the morning hours following the Halloween party. 73 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,760 Sometime between 3 and 8 a.m. 74 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:28,760 The witching hour. 75 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,760 Yeah. 76 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,960 If you're following up listening to the first segment of this story from the Halloween 77 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:41,080 collaboration, you might also recall that they found Arpana at the foot of her bed. 78 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:48,840 Her autopsy would later show that she died of esphyxia by ligature strangulation. 79 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:54,280 Her manner of death was obviously brutal, but within the report it was also noted that 80 00:04:54,280 --> 00:04:58,720 she had sustained multiple blunt force injuries. 81 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,920 However, there are a number of details that we omitted from that short excerpt of the 82 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,740 story for, obviously for brevity. 83 00:05:08,740 --> 00:05:17,340 The attack that she had endured and specifically the head trauma resulted in several broken teeth, 84 00:05:17,340 --> 00:05:19,920 which is a particular no no for my brain. 85 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,240 Yeah, as soon as you said teeth, I was like, "Uh oh, she hates it." 86 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,480 I hate it. 87 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:31,440 But it's these next couple of details that are upsetting, I think, for all of the brains, 88 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,800 but I do think that they're important to share so that you understand the depth of depravity 89 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,160 when it comes to her killer. 90 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:48,000 Arpana was also gagged using her own underwear, and duct tape was applied as well to keep that 91 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,000 in place. 92 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,680 Oh God, using someone's own underwear is just like so. 93 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,720 What is that word demoralizing? 94 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:55,720 It is. 95 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,720 Demeaning all of that. 96 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,200 Yeah, it's really. 97 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:00,200 Yeah. 98 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:06,280 Presumably prior to her assault, though the final detail related to her assault isn't 99 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:11,440 completely clear in regards to the timeline. 100 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,960 And I'm going to tell you that final detail now. 101 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,440 Okay. 102 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:21,440 Prior to the sexual assault, her tampon was removed. 103 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:22,840 Oh, okay. 104 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:32,360 Which is just, to me, a level of horror that I feel like it's probably wrapped up in a lot 105 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:41,240 of shame more than anything about female bodily functions, but it really got me in a place 106 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,080 that I didn't know I had feels. 107 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:45,080 And I hate it. 108 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:51,280 Well, even if you don't have shame, which nobody should, about their womanly bleed, it's 109 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:52,280 fine. 110 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:57,080 I'm not sure if it's clear, but like it's just so intimate, I feel like it is. 111 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,080 Yeah. 112 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,080 It is really intimate. 113 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,080 Yeah. 114 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,760 I mean, so is sex, obviously, but there's just, yeah, there's something about that, you're right. 115 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:09,720 But to do that, which is this, you know, my God, a very like you say, intimate and not in 116 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,520 a good way, yeah, there's no positive connotation there. 117 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:21,560 And then to do something this brutal to her, I just, I can't fathom it. 118 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:29,800 You'll also recall the laundry list of odd household items that were used pretty bizarrely 119 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:37,080 seemingly to eradicate evidence bleach, blue toilet bowl cleaner, a common household type 120 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,400 of soap and motor oil. 121 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:46,040 Ugh, the motor oil thing is just really freaks me out. 122 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,840 Expanding on that, apparently the killer scrubbed her body with bleach. 123 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,800 Oh, scrubbed it? 124 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,200 That's how I've heard it described. 125 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:05,640 Investigators even noting that her hands were stained blue from some type of highly acidic 126 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,360 cleaning agent. 127 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,920 So I think that's where the toilet bowl cleaner comes in. 128 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,720 What the fuck? 129 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,920 It's very strange. 130 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,760 So let's talk about potential perpetrators. 131 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:27,600 Now before a manual was charged, police had another person of interest, several, in fact, 132 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:33,600 one of whom was a neighbor of Arpana's, a white man in his twenties, the same neighbor 133 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:38,240 who'd entered the apartment with Arpana's family friend. 134 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:44,960 Also notably someone who is also reportedly considered a suspect in the early days of the 135 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:45,960 case. 136 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,560 So these are the two people that discovered her body. 137 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:53,640 One is a neighbor, one is a family friend. 138 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,160 That sucks to find that and then be also accused. 139 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,560 I could not agree more. 140 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:01,880 I suspected, not accused, but suspected. 141 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:09,480 Yeah, I mean, the fact that they suspect you sort of implies an accusation in a way. 142 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:19,040 The initial investigation focused on this individual and that is the neighbor who is unlikely 143 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,840 to be named in most source material that you would come across in this case. 144 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,200 Unlike Emanual, of course. 145 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:35,800 So a lot of source material protects a number of these potential suspects or persons of 146 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,120 interest, their names. 147 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:47,960 And unfortunately, obviously that same level of courtesy or privacy that they're afforded 148 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,760 is not something that you'll see for Emanual. 149 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:58,520 I was going to say that's understandable that they wouldn't want to release their names. 150 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,240 Yeah, I feel like it is somewhat unusual. 151 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:08,560 I think more often than not, we see the names of potential perpetrators being shared. 152 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:14,080 So that kind of, in my mind, that sort of threw up a flag that there's so many of them 153 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:19,400 that have by and large remained unnamed. 154 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,600 At the time, investigators found the neighbor's activities on the night in question a little 155 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,240 bit suspicious. 156 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:32,440 His phone records revealed that he called Arpana at around 3 a.m. 157 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,760 on the earliest end of time window of her death. 158 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,280 So, okay. 159 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,120 Why? 160 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,240 I just have to say, why? 161 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,440 He said he did not remember making the call. 162 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,000 Okay, well, come on. 163 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:57,960 Yeah, I don't love that, but this individual's DNA was also the primary profile found on key 164 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:04,320 pieces of evidence such as the bottle of motor oil that was discovered in a bag, along 165 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:13,040 with what authorities presumed was the red robe that Arpana wore on the dates in question, 166 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,920 as well as inside the window of her apartment. 167 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,360 So, oh, we've got his DNA in one form or fashion. 168 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,640 In the motor oil? 169 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,640 Uh-huh. 170 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,240 And he wasn't charged? 171 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:29,240 Nope. 172 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:36,760 Other than fair and the neighbor, no other DNA profiles from party goers present that night 173 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,040 were found on evidence at the crime scene. 174 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,480 According to court records, there's still more. 175 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:50,240 Like the lighter that was found in his apartment with a sticky substance on it that could have 176 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,000 been motor oil, but investigators never collected it. 177 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,000 What? 178 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,000 Okay. 179 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,120 I see that there's some shenanigans going on here. 180 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,440 Well, that's one way to put it. 181 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,200 Also located in the search was a list of pawn shops that was printed the day that Arpana 182 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,960 was killed. 183 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,640 Both her phone and digital camera were never recovered that I could determine. 184 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,640 Okay. 185 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:25,640 I think the thought process there being that maybe this person stole those items and went 186 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,200 to pawn them, but they never found them at pawn shops or anything or did they even look? 187 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,200 I, it's unclear. 188 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,200 Yep. 189 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,560 Caitlyn, you're supposed to know everything. 190 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,760 I, I wish. 191 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:45,360 Several people present the night of the party stated that they saw him quote, exhibit jealous 192 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,920 behavior when she talked to other men at the party. 193 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:50,920 Ugh. 194 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,560 So, also that. 195 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:57,680 A review of the transcript of his interview with police reveals that he reported hearing 196 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:02,600 sounds coming from her apartment around 3 a.m. 197 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:09,760 But he didn't make much of it and waited until roughly 10 a.m. to call her the next morning. 198 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:17,440 When police looked at his phone, they noted that he had also called her at 2:56 a.m. 199 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:18,440 and 3:02 a.m. 200 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:19,440 Okay. 201 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,520 That sounds like someone who is jealous. 202 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,520 Yeah. 203 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:29,520 I mean, that's definitely right before the window of time where she died as well. 204 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,880 And if he's hearing stuff from her room and then was like, oh, I didn't think anything about 205 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,520 it, but earlier was exhibiting jealous behavior. 206 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:38,520 Okay. 207 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:39,520 Okay. 208 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:45,640 So, here's probably the best part about this, which it doesn't mean anything to be clear. 209 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:53,920 I'm not saying that anyone in this case is guilty when confronted with the evidence that 210 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,840 they found in his call log. 211 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,280 My notes say to which he said, oh, crap. 212 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,640 Before insisting that he didn't remember why he called her. 213 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,200 Oh, crap. 214 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,200 Huh? 215 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:11,200 Yeah. 216 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,200 Yeah, guy. 217 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,200 Yeah. 218 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,280 Yeah, which could be a thousand percent accurate. 219 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:25,160 It could be a simple misremembering of the facts after the fact when alcohol was likely 220 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:31,360 heavily involved for many of these people, or it could have been a butt dial for that 221 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:32,360 matter. 222 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,800 I mean, drunk dialing is a thing, butt dialing is a thing, especially at that point. 223 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:38,800 Yeah. 224 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:39,800 Yeah. 225 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,360 At a point in time where you very literally could butt dial. 226 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,760 You can't really do that now. 227 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,040 Everyone's got their phone, you know, with a passcode or something. 228 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,040 Yeah. 229 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:51,040 Yeah. 230 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:58,000 But of course, I saved the most bizarre detail for last that viewed in a certain light is 231 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,760 perhaps the most damning. 232 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,120 According to interviews by the police, it was at roughly 10 a.m. on the morning that Arpana 233 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:14,040 was killed that this man's decided to drive two hours up to Canada. 234 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,200 Oh, okay. 235 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,880 Where he wait for it. 236 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:25,760 Try to blow through the gates without a passport. 237 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:32,280 He told detectives he wanted to quote, explore honey. 238 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:33,280 Go south. 239 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:34,280 Yeah. 240 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:35,280 Yeah. 241 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:36,280 That is a little bit. 242 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,160 But seriously, like if you're going to try to blow through a border, I wouldn't have tried 243 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,160 Canada. 244 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:42,160 Yeah. 245 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,960 I mean, I understand that it was closer. 246 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:44,960 Yeah. 247 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:45,960 I. 248 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:46,960 That is super. 249 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:47,960 That is like not okay. 250 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,160 It's it's very erratic. 251 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,080 It's very strange. 252 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:59,240 This next paragraph, I'm just taking directly from a Rolling Stones article that primarily 253 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:07,000 focused on Emanual's life and the impact of the case. 254 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:12,120 At the end of the interview when investigators had started putting pressure on him, he asked 255 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:18,280 investigators to turn off the recording and he discussed something that can't be found 256 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:19,600 in the police record. 257 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,280 What? 258 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:27,680 When asked what the neighbor said in a pretrial interview obtained by the suspect 259 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:36,680 podcast, detective codes simply said, I don't recall, despite the apparent evidence against 260 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:44,040 him, investigators let him leave the police station with his blackberry according to police 261 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,640 records, which he subsequently scrubbed. 262 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:54,680 So when you're asked, what what did the neighbor who tried to literally flee the country 263 00:16:54,680 --> 00:17:00,440 say in his pretrial interview, I don't recall. 264 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,680 Also we let him leave the station with his blackberry and it has subsequently been wiped 265 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:15,160 just to tidy up that little summary for you in case your brain actually exploded hearing 266 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:16,960 that the first time. 267 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,960 I don't recall where my brain went. 268 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:19,960 Yeah. 269 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,480 Through the ceiling actually. 270 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,480 Wow. 271 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,480 Obviously, you know. 272 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:32,080 We went up to the roof and she took her brain out and she said, a throat on the ground. 273 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,840 I was going to say there's a Caitlyn and Cassie brain shaped hole in the ceiling. 274 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:37,840 Yeah. 275 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:38,840 Absolutely. 276 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:39,840 Did that make sense? 277 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,360 Yeah, I did. 278 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:47,040 Here's the kind of crazy thing to me. 279 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:53,440 Even if based on some of the DNA and other forensic evidence, the idea might have seemed 280 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,440 plausible. 281 00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:03,600 Ostensibly, the prosecution wanted to charge Emmanuel, an only Emanuel, which they did, but 282 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:10,920 they wanted to argue that maybe the neighbor had something to do with it. 283 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,080 This next part is about how that shook out. 284 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:16,600 I just can't believe this. 285 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:23,400 Like, yeah, I would say that the neighbor looks a little, maybe not hands perfectly clean. 286 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,640 On this, but what do I know? 287 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:35,000 I mean, if his DNA was found on the motor oil, that was a part of the crime scene evidence 288 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,040 taken, I just feel like that's. 289 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,440 It doesn't look great. 290 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,440 Yeah. 291 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:46,920 But it's like they can't make up a clear series of events. 292 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,120 They can't figure out who has the motive or. 293 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:57,960 So when you bring a case to court, ideally, you want to really know exactly what happened. 294 00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:58,960 Yeah. 295 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,200 That's how you get a conviction. 296 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:06,480 Before the trial, it was decided that the evidence linking the neighbor to possible involvement 297 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,320 in the crime was admissible. 298 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:15,280 But the prosecution would of course argue that incriminating evidence against the neighbor 299 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:22,120 did not inherently mean that Emanual was innocent, which is true. 300 00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:26,200 But for Christ's sake, guys, can you just present a clear case? 301 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,440 Anyways, I digress. 302 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:35,360 It seemed far more reasonable that two people who would only just barely met might have teamed 303 00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:39,120 up on this horrific crime out of the blue. 304 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:41,840 Because why not, right? 305 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,640 I know I like to. 306 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:44,760 I don't like to. 307 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,760 But I do do this. 308 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:53,040 I know that I often assume the worst about men, but this seems a bit of a stretch. 309 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,840 Yeah, I agree. 310 00:19:54,840 --> 00:20:00,200 According to the state's case, the neighbor was classified more accurately as an uncharged 311 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,960 accomplice rather than the other suspect. 312 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,480 Though to be fair, prosecutors were barred from using the argument that the neighbor and 313 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,560 Emanual had acted as accomplices. 314 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,640 It's a reason that there wasn't sufficient evidence to support theory, which no shit 315 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,640 sure lock. 316 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:28,440 The state court of appeals upheld the court's decision and the state's Supreme Court ultimately 317 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,240 declined to review it. 318 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,760 This is just so ridiculous. 319 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:38,080 Like if you can't figure out who you think did it and whether or not it was more than 320 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,760 one perpetrator, maybe that's not a case we take to court. 321 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,000 I was gonna say maybe you're not ready yet, maybe sit on that egg a little while and let 322 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,000 it hatch. 323 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,160 You let you put that one back in the oven. 324 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,960 She needs to keep cooking. 325 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:56,880 We were restricted in what we could say in that they may have acted together, said Brian 326 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,200 McDonald, one of two lead prosecutors on the case. 327 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,880 You'll know I did include his name. 328 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:10,520 This restriction allowed the defense to argue that any evidence involving the neighbor 329 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:16,800 should be reasonable doubt as to whether Emanuel committed the crime. 330 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:23,360 Emanuel contends in a lawsuit that authorities, quote, ignored and failed to gather evidence 331 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:27,160 that did not align with their theory of the case. 332 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,440 Because yeah, in case it wasn't already clear, there's a lawsuit. 333 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,440 That's good. 334 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,600 Yeah, I tend to think so. 335 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:42,520 Now there are additional persons of interest that you'd hear more about in more in-depth 336 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,920 coverage in a multi-part case series. 337 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:48,920 I did not do that. 338 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,080 It's only Halloween for one day. 339 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,040 Yeah, this was already a lot. 340 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:59,240 Some of them were part of a local motorcycle group that Arpana had joined. 341 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:00,760 Oh, Arpana! 342 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:01,760 I know. 343 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:02,760 I love that. 344 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,320 Don't love that they're suspected. 345 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:05,320 Yeah. 346 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,080 I like this next party, the less. 347 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:08,080 Okay. 348 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,080 Two of the members of the group had a history of sexual crimes. 349 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:18,400 But one in particular had been actively sexually harassing her reportedly. 350 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,880 Oh, so that's damn. 351 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:28,640 Depending on how shaded you are, this next part may or may not surprise you at this point. 352 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:35,240 Police also found DNA from a third biker who she had been sleeping with on her costume. 353 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,640 That's where they found the DNA. 354 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,000 And on the sheet that was draped over her body. 355 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,000 Okay. 356 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,560 I mean, if she was already doing it with them, I could see how... 357 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,040 Maybe that was already there. 358 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,040 Yeah. 359 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,040 It's hard to say. 360 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,600 Additionally, there was another resident at the apartment complex that unfortunately died 361 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,920 by suicide just days after her death. 362 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,000 Oh, no. 363 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,480 This individual's DNA was never compared to the crime scene according to the most recent 364 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:12,320 reporting on the case based primarily on Emanuel's lawsuit. 365 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:18,120 So I have every reason to think that I'm not mistaken here. 366 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:23,400 Unfortunately, they did not test that person's DNA against the evidence. 367 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,720 Oh, so that's us. 368 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,720 That's unfortunate. 369 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:36,040 Now here's where we turn a corner because this case certainly at least feels more complicated 370 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:42,400 than I understood it to be at the outset because there are certainly factors related to 371 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:50,040 the individuals involved in this case that are at least cause for concern or consideration, 372 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,760 maybe pause. 373 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,920 And that of course includes Emanuel. 374 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:03,600 I say this with trepidation because I can't tell you that I've landed on my own personal, 375 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,440 solid theory in this case. 376 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:13,080 But I want to represent as much information about every aspect of the case as I can so 377 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:20,000 that you walk away feeling like maybe you can decide for yourself. 378 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:27,160 If it were more clear, you know, I take no issue with roasting the guilty party. 379 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:33,740 The problem is that in a case like this, it just might be too ambiguous to do so with 380 00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:34,760 any confidence. 381 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,040 Oh, and yeah, we don't want to be sued. 382 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,040 Yeah, no. 383 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,040 So there's that. 384 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:48,440 A handful of years before our Arpana's horrific murder, Emanuel Fair had been arrested and 385 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,320 charged with raping a minor. 386 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,760 Ew. 387 00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:01,880 According to the 15 year old victim, he had raped her numerous times, which is unimaginably 388 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:02,880 awful. 389 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:11,200 However, there was an additional altercation that took place in Burian where Emanuel reportedly 390 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,960 choked the girl at gunpoint. 391 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,080 Oh, the choking. 392 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:24,280 He was arrested for this crime and ended up pleading guilty to avoid a decade plus prison 393 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:31,800 sentence, pleading down from second degree to third degree rape. 394 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:38,560 Though Emanuel began serving out his four year sentence in 2004, he would ultimately be 395 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,640 released in less than three years. 396 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:49,280 At the time of his release, he was labeled a level one offender, meaning he was amongst 397 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,600 those considered the least likely to reoffend. 398 00:25:53,600 --> 00:26:00,720 If you want to hear another infuriating case about someone labeled a level one sex offender, 399 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:07,240 go back and listen to the Richard Gilmore aka the jogger rapist case. 400 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,920 I remember that. 401 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,680 That's the first thing that popped in my head when he said that. 402 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,480 At gunpoint. 403 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,480 Reportedly. 404 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:18,480 Yeah. 405 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,480 Okay. 406 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:20,480 Yeah. 407 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:21,480 Report allegedly. 408 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,480 I get it. 409 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,480 Yeah. 410 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,480 I mean, he was convicted. 411 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,880 So I feel like I'm honestly probably being a bit generous. 412 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,400 But we're trying to parse out some nuance here. 413 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,400 Yeah. 414 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:38,720 However, as is often the case, Immanuel failed to abide by the terms of his release and ultimately 415 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,440 his probation violations landed him in custody of the state again. 416 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:51,640 Once released in the fall of 2006, Emanuel would commence a roughly three year long period 417 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,440 of cycling between either homelessness or prison incarceration. 418 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:57,440 Damn. 419 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,960 This included the period in which Arpana was murdered. 420 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,080 He was couch surfing with a friend that lived in the complex on that fateful night. 421 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:15,040 Initially the friend he had been staying with lied about the fact when questioned by police. 422 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,320 But they were later able to determine he had been present by coming through the various 423 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,280 photos that partygoers had taken. 424 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,320 Many posted to Facebook as was the norm for many 20-somethings at that time. 425 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,320 Yeah. 426 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,400 Social media will get your ass. 427 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:43,880 Once jailed he would remain there for eight years, seven months and 14 days. 428 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:51,320 Let's recall that this is all without ever being convicted of a crime. 429 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,320 Jesus. 430 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,440 At least not this crime. 431 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,080 That's a long time though. 432 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,080 Yes. 433 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,320 I probably said that last time, but oh my god. 434 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:09,160 During this period he was primarily isolated due in large part to the fact that the facility 435 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:15,480 was not designed for long term imprisonment. 436 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,200 Throughout the duration he maintained his innocence. 437 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:27,480 So what does it tell you when someone has basically overstayed their welcome in a facility 438 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:33,000 that's not meant for someone to be held long term? 439 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,520 There's so many things wrong with that. 440 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,720 And if you held for eight years when you're saying you're innocent, if you're really innocent 441 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:48,400 and then you're being kept in solitary, oh my god, that just fucks with you. 442 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:55,600 So I would implore you to listen to this next section with an open mind. 443 00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:02,080 Not because I necessarily feel confident that Emanual is completely innocent, but because 444 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,280 we're all supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. 445 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,040 And because at this stage, whether what's been shared with you up to this point has you 446 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:19,400 convinced one way or another regarding Emanual's guilt or innocence or another suspects 447 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,560 for that matter, it's important to note that there's no official resolution. 448 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:36,440 How a case is approached from minute one matters because one misstep can leave so much room 449 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:43,120 for speculation, for doubt, and ultimately a completely solvable case may end up in a 450 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:50,720 stack of unsolved cold cases or become a conspiracy theory where no one can agree on a firm 451 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:56,400 accounting of many of the facts. 452 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,440 As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows. 453 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,280 So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week. 454 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:13,000 Let's show them some love you can find their info in our show notes. 455 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,000 Can you hear me? 456 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,520 Good to have you back with us. 457 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,960 I hope you don't mind that I am recording for investigative notes. 458 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,160 It's a wax cylinder, the only thing we've found that can pick up the voices of people in 459 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,840 your condition. 460 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,120 My name is Owen von Sid, I am a reclamer. 461 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,800 Do you know what that means? 462 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:33,800 No? 463 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,600 Well, I am sorry to inform you that you didn't make it. 464 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,720 Please try to remain calm. 465 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,920 The worst is over. 466 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,760 Nothing can hurt you, not ever again. 467 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,920 But the thing that did this to you is still out there. 468 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,120 That is what we do. 469 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:57,080 I wake unfortunate souls such as yourself, hear their stories, then my associates and I 470 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:03,720 see to it that whoever or whatever did this to you is dealt with. 471 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,800 Now let's begin. 472 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,600 When you are ready. 473 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,120 Tell me. 474 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,840 How did you die? 475 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:17,160 Ghost Wax is an anthology horror podcast from far-intel tales productions. 476 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,520 New episodes releasing weekly. 477 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:25,800 Look for us wherever you get your podcasts. 478 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,200 You guys were back. 479 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,800 And don't worry, we did get more wine. 480 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,240 Well, of course. 481 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,080 Emanuel would ultimately face two trials. 482 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:46,200 In our previous discussion of the case, we left off at the first in 2017. 483 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:56,600 The trial ended in a hung jury because of one juror who said, "And yes, this is a quote." 484 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:07,040 After the trial that when he looked at Emanuel, he saw a "thug" with tattoos on his hands. 485 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,960 Okay. 486 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,920 The second trial ended in June of 2019. 487 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,920 Jesus. 488 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:22,200 The jury determined that the detectives and prosecutors had never had a strong enough case 489 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,240 against him. 490 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,680 He was cleared of all charges and was released. 491 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,240 Which makes it all seem too easy. 492 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:42,800 Now, two years later, he's suing everyone that had the power to put him in that cell. 493 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:49,360 He filed a lawsuit against the county, the city of Redmond, the Redmond Police Department, 494 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,880 even the detective on the case. 495 00:32:52,880 --> 00:33:00,440 The prosecutor, amongst many others, were later added to the complaint by his legal team. 496 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,720 Quoting again here. 497 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:10,320 The suit contends that he never would have been in that cell and certainly not for years 498 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,360 if he weren't a black man with a criminal record. 499 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:22,360 The suit describes an investigation that was so badly handled it can only be characterized 500 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,360 as bizarre. 501 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,920 Yeah, holy shit. 502 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,160 What's upsetting about that is that it's really not that bizarre. 503 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,160 Yeah. 504 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:45,480 It's baffling, but I would argue it is something we're all a little too accustomed to. 505 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:46,960 Yeah, pretty common. 506 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:55,440 And again, I'm not clamoring saying that I believe him to necessarily be innocent, but two 507 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,320 rungs don't make a right. 508 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:04,160 Rolling stones account of Emanual's case and the investigation into Arpana's murder 509 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:10,840 is based on more than a thousand pages of case files and legal documents. 510 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:18,840 They show that there was persuasive evidence against at least six other suspects that the 511 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:26,920 detectives were investigating none of whom were black and none of whom spent a day in jail 512 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,240 for Arpana's murder. 513 00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:36,720 His lawsuit claims the detectives on the case ignored and failed to gather evidence that 514 00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:43,680 did not align with their theory of the case, but it also alleges they treated Emanual so 515 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:51,440 differently than the white suspects that the treatment can only be viewed as racial discrimination. 516 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,160 It's very clear. 517 00:34:54,160 --> 00:35:00,120 I mean, if that's not what it is, then they really fucked themselves. 518 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,840 They really shot themselves in the foot by just bungling through. 519 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:12,640 The case files illustrate a number of breaches of protocol, some characterized as careless 520 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:21,520 errors, which is not something I ever want to see in connection with a murder investigation. 521 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,200 You'd hope. 522 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:29,520 Just a few examples, such as not training their detectives to change gloves between DNA 523 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:30,520 samples. 524 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,160 What the fuck years is this? 525 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,280 I literally don't remember. 526 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,120 I think it's like 2009. 527 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,720 Way after CSI. 528 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:42,040 Like, you know these things, even if you're not trained. 529 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,040 You should know. 530 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,040 Right. 531 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,040 Jesus, really. 532 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,600 They didn't change their effing gloves. 533 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:53,160 You have to do that while handling food. 534 00:35:53,160 --> 00:36:00,080 And also not securing key locations of the crime scene. 535 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,560 There's more. 536 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:09,240 To calling in a famous psychic medium to weigh in on the case, which like do you boo, but 537 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:17,240 you don't get to do that when you've done all of the other things that predate that. 538 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:18,240 Yeah. 539 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,840 Doing that should just supplement all the right things you do. 540 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:25,800 I just, and there's a lot of people that would say, no, you never do that. 541 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,280 So I feel as though we're being fairly generous. 542 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:37,800 And I think it's because we're witches, but the case against a manual that led to his nearly 543 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,880 nine years spent behind bars relied heavily on DNA evidence. 544 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:50,360 Trace amounts found on Arpana's neck, her robe, and the duct tape used to restrain 545 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,560 her. 546 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:57,080 But understanding how some of that evidence could have been mishandled, certainly muddies 547 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,920 the water. 548 00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:05,880 It also seems fair to say that Emanual's background likely led to bias as well. 549 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,600 When they ran a background check and discovered that he had a record, they may have immediately 550 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,440 thought they'd found their man. 551 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:18,440 Though the bulk of the report showed mostly juvenile offenses like possession of drugs 552 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,160 and an unlicensed weapon. 553 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:30,640 There was a charge that would have stood out from 2004, the third degree rape charge. 554 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:38,920 He had entered an Alfred plea in that case, which means that he accepted the plea agreement 555 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,080 while still maintaining his innocence. 556 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,920 A common tactic when you can't afford to go to trial. 557 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:54,760 Oh, that just makes me so sad because what if he is innocent of all of it? 558 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,920 He spent three years in prison for that charge. 559 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:08,120 In a 2016 pretrial interview obtained by the suspect podcast, Detective Cotes was asked 560 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:14,440 if the prior conviction was significant to his investigation. 561 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,280 He replied, "If you've done it before, you'll do it again." 562 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,080 Oh, come on. 563 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,680 Which I hate how much. 564 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:35,680 It brought up Richard Gilmore for me because that's exactly what I would say about him. 565 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:36,680 Yeah. 566 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,680 And hopefully, I'm wrong. 567 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,080 I'm fucking hopes so too. 568 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:48,240 Which may well be at least anecdotally correct. 569 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:53,320 I think there are statistics to back that up with certain types of crimes, but it doesn't 570 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:59,080 necessarily look great to have said that on the record regarding this case. 571 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,240 Yeah, because you're never going to get rid of that. 572 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:03,400 You're always going to have that bias now. 573 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,400 Yep. 574 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,920 But of course, it was the testing of the DNA that really got us here. 575 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:16,480 His DNA matched a sample found on Arpana's robe that was found at the crime scene, which 576 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:24,880 as you'll recall was an unsecured apartment unit and the complex dumpster, essentially. 577 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:30,200 They also confirmed that he was a match to DNA connected to the role of duct tape that 578 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:36,440 was used in the crime scene as well, which would be damning, but I feel as though there could 579 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:43,320 be plenty of reasonable explanations on Halloween night for him to have touched that in a completely 580 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,960 unrelated manner. 581 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,040 Doesn't that seem like something, you know, like part of your costume is, you know, coming 582 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,040 apart. 583 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,640 Maybe you need a piece of duct tape or I don't know. 584 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:03,800 I just feel like in a big group of drunk people, presumably on Halloween night at a Halloween 585 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,520 party in costumes, like something breaks. 586 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:14,160 I just, I came up with a few different ideas for like why maybe that happened. 587 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:15,160 Yeah. 588 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,360 Why would you need duct tape? 589 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,040 What would you need it for? 590 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:24,800 Why would there be a perfectly reasonable, like alternate story behind that? 591 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,040 Well, people use duct tape all the time. 592 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,400 It's a staple, so I think it's less suspicious than the fucking motor oil. 593 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,400 Yeah. 594 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,200 I have to agree. 595 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:35,840 I have to agree. 596 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,360 But it's hard to know one way or the other. 597 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:46,760 There was also a match to a tiny sliver of DNA, so small that it had to be sent to a specialized 598 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,240 lab on the front of Arpana's neck. 599 00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:59,520 So, but I have to wonder if our evolving understanding of touch DNA in more recent years 600 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:06,320 perhaps changes the perception of how valuable this particular sample is to the prosecution's 601 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:07,320 case. 602 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:16,520 It's entirely possible in certain situations, especially if you were engaged in some type 603 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:24,880 of an intimate or sexual encounter that was consensual that you could leave DNA behind 604 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:25,880 on someone. 605 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:26,880 Yeah. 606 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:36,360 So, this case is really one of the first where I thought to myself, wow, is that even evidence? 607 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:42,680 I'm certainly not going to, I'm not going to say one way or the other. 608 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:52,520 I don't have enough detailed in-depth knowledge of how that DNA testing is done, you know, 609 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:59,320 what the sample size is, but it's my new, it's done by a specialty lab and it definitely 610 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,320 makes you wonder. 611 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,560 Did they say what it was? 612 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,640 What if he just like sneezed on her? 613 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:09,680 Yeah, that's the other thing is, you know, I probably could have dug around any of the 614 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,640 court records to find out like, okay, is this blood, is this semen, is this spit, is this, 615 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:20,880 but to me, it almost is like, if it's really that minute, it almost doesn't even matter. 616 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,280 Yeah. 617 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,280 I don't know. 618 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,480 It's about a hug or something, what if, I don't know. 619 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:32,640 I mean, quite literally, I've been hearing more and more about cases where people are convicted 620 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:41,600 on, you know, such minute samples or, you know, this kind of, the principle of it being touch 621 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:51,960 DNA and it really sets people up to look guilty when they're not because the jury is made 622 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:59,640 up of people like me who don't really understand that like, this is minute and they're not going 623 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,920 out of their way to explain that. 624 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:08,480 Police files show that there are multiple other men in Arpana's life that had as much 625 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:16,720 if not more evidence against them and several more that were never thoroughly investigated. 626 00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:22,840 The key difference between them, the suit alleges is that none of the other men were black. 627 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,800 Under the law, probable cause requires you to look at the whole picture. 628 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:33,160 You can't leave out the fact that there was basically everyone else's DNA at the scene 629 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,400 too and they did. 630 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:43,000 And that's a quote actually taken from a statement provided by Emanuel's legal team. 631 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,040 And you know what, they're not wrong. 632 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,560 No, because they're lawyers, so they checked. 633 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,040 They lawyered hard. 634 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,560 They lawyered so hard. 635 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:59,640 His and an uncle showed up at the courthouse every day during his trial. 636 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:05,680 Whenever his case was on the docket, even if he wasn't going to be there, they packed lunch 637 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,800 and snacks for long hours spent on hard courthouse benches. 638 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:18,440 Now his aunt describes that time as understandably the worst years. 639 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:19,440 Years. 640 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,360 I just, I cannot believe how long it took. 641 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:29,760 Emanuel now lives with the couple as he attempts to rebuild his life, but he struggled finding 642 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,600 suitable long term employment. 643 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,280 I, yeah, make sense. 644 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,680 But prepare yourself because you're going to be super pissed about some of the employment 645 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,720 that he has found. 646 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:49,520 According to the Rolling Stone, since his release, he exists in a strange systemic purgatory. 647 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:55,640 A man who was incarcerated for nearly a decade, but never convicted of a crime. 648 00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:02,080 Emanuel says that while he was in jail, he dreaded the possibility of being convicted and 649 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:03,880 exonerated. 650 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:11,960 His lawyers say that in some ways, at least, he would have been better off if he had been. 651 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:19,480 His lawyer said, let's imagine that Immanuel was wrongfully convicted. 652 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:25,860 He would have spent a number of years in prison, but when he got out, he would be on parole. 653 00:45:25,860 --> 00:45:31,840 There would be people to help him get a job, to help him get his feet on the ground, some 654 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,240 very, very needed mental health care. 655 00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:45,680 He suffers from depression, anxiety and PTSD, but because he wasn't convicted, he's got nothing. 656 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,800 Nothing, they don't do anything for you. 657 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,880 And I said, you're going to hate what kind of work he has found. 658 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,600 He has worked in security. 659 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:07,000 I was going to say security, which is just, you know, for anyone that's been convicted of 660 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:12,920 a crime previously, you know, this is prior to the crime that we're even talking about today. 661 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,760 I'm sorry, you just, what? 662 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:23,880 Yeah, security, but security, you know, it should feel secure. 663 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,760 It boggles the mind. 664 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,680 And this next part, it really makes me want to cry. 665 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:38,460 Emanuel says that he was reluctant to file his lawsuit at first, knowing that Arpana's 666 00:46:38,460 --> 00:46:42,400 family still hasn't gotten justice. 667 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,880 There's no resolution for this case, no resolution for her. 668 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,960 He said that? 669 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,640 That just makes me feel like he is innocent. 670 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:57,720 I mean, it could be for show, but I just don't know why you would say something like that. 671 00:46:57,720 --> 00:46:59,720 Just never talk about it again. 672 00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:00,720 Right. 673 00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:02,480 I mean, you're in a lawsuit, but still. 674 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:03,480 Yeah. 675 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:04,480 I don't know. 676 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,760 It really, it really makes you think. 677 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,480 And I definitely, I'll show you some of the photos that I found. 678 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:18,720 And you can help me pick out our, our photos for the, for any of our posts this week. 679 00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:27,160 But my God, to look at some of these photos, I just think it's, it's going to be a tough, 680 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:32,880 tough thing for someone to convince me that, that this is the guy. 681 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:40,920 And the fact that he, the Alfred plea, in the case where he was convicted, it just, yeah, 682 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,240 it's a really sad story from every single angle. 683 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:51,400 So, because he never got the chance the first time to prove he was innocent. 684 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:52,400 Yeah. 685 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,200 He just had to do that. 686 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:55,200 Yeah. 687 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,480 So happy fucking Halloween. 688 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:00,480 This was it. 689 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,160 Yeah, it was, it was a really rough one. 690 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:03,560 Do you see these? 691 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,600 I have goosebumps all over me. 692 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,240 Yeah, my feet have been getting really chilled. 693 00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:10,680 That's why I have one leg up in my chair. 694 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,800 It didn't start until you said that quote. 695 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,000 And then I just, all of a sudden got all my hair is standing out. 696 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:20,920 I've had the chili willies for about three or four minutes now. 697 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:21,920 Yeah. 698 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,400 So, wow. 699 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:24,400 Yeah. 700 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,400 So, you think we should do some, Tarot? 701 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,640 Yeah, let's do some, Tarot. 702 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:31,640 Tara. 703 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,880 Let's do the more actual Halloweeny stuff. 704 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:34,880 Yeah. 705 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:35,880 Yeah. 706 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:37,200 I feel like it always makes us feel better. 707 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:38,200 Yeah. 708 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:39,200 Yeah. 709 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:40,200 It's a good way to end it. 710 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:41,200 Tarot? 711 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:42,200 Tarot? 712 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:43,200 Okay. 713 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,200 Okay. 714 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:51,680 We have a beautiful set up today by Caitlyn. 715 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,840 By Caitlyn, for Caitlyn. 716 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,880 On Caitlyn? 717 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,080 Oh, I should mark. 718 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,080 We have an orb visitor today. 719 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,760 We have the light shining just right on the camera that we have a little green orb back 720 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:09,760 there. 721 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:10,760 Oh. 722 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,560 We have beautiful incense today. 723 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:15,560 We do. 724 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,640 What flavor did we choose for today? 725 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,640 This one's sales. 726 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:23,640 Positive facts. 727 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,480 Oh, that's a great thing to burn. 728 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:27,480 Yeah. 729 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:28,480 Especially right now. 730 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:29,480 Yeah. 731 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,040 I felt like that seemed right. 732 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:34,840 Okay. 733 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,480 What remind me her name, I forget. 734 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:38,480 Arpana. 735 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:39,920 I was like, I know, I know it. 736 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,920 It's just not coming to me in this moment. 737 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:52,760 Arpana thinking about her possibly innocent man's Emanual. 738 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,960 Mm hmm. 739 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,080 I only knew that because like that's an easier name to remember. 740 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:04,480 So, well, it was very fresh because that's the part of the case that we were talking 741 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,760 about at length. 742 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:07,760 Okay. 743 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,760 I just love the name, Arpana too. 744 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,160 It's so pretty. 745 00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,160 It is pretty. 746 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,000 I'm just going to keep saying it so that I remember it for always. 747 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,160 That's pretty good. 748 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:26,600 We have a nice apple and rosemary garnish that you did not just see fall apart. 749 00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:27,600 No. 750 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:28,600 No. 751 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:36,520 We are drinking a combination of the cranberry cheers, truly. 752 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:41,200 And vanna that, yeah, she's doing excellent work over there. 753 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,760 It's a spiced apple wine, which is brew. 754 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,640 So, it's a drink up, which is on the top, drink up, which is, I should have worn that shirt 755 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:51,640 again. 756 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:52,640 You should have. 757 00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:53,640 Yeah. 758 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:54,640 Your matches. 759 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:55,640 Yeah. 760 00:50:55,640 --> 00:51:01,480 Well, and it's in the shot from me and Chris in the kitchen. 761 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,240 Well, I have, I have a purpose for that photo. 762 00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:05,240 Oh, yeah. 763 00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:07,240 That was pretty funny. 764 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:08,240 Yeah. 765 00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:14,600 Also, speaking of Ouija, I learned something I didn't really know before. 766 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:15,600 Tail me. 767 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:23,120 So, apparently, a Ouija board that's just a decoration and not meant for portal spirit 768 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:27,880 communication purposes won't accidentally communicate with the spirit for you. 769 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:28,880 Well done. 770 00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:29,880 Good. 771 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:30,880 Yeah. 772 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,720 Which I kind of, I kind of suspected, but I don't know. 773 00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:37,800 People were worried about their decorations and I have a lot of Ouija decorations. 774 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:44,200 This is literally the only thing that I own and I felt like, I thought about that today. 775 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,400 That's the only thing she owns. 776 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,920 Am I inviting, it's the only Ouija? 777 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:56,320 Am I inviting something to come home with me by wearing this? 778 00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:57,320 No. 779 00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:58,960 Am I going out into the world? 780 00:51:58,960 --> 00:51:59,960 I felt like no. 781 00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:03,600 But if you're not intending to, then you're not. 782 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,280 I never intend to. 783 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,800 Let the record state clearly that I never intend to. 784 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:18,800 Okay, so we got the star in reverse and it's a cute little ghosty pouring out some jugs. 785 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:19,800 Jugs. 786 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,240 We like them jugs around here. 787 00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:23,240 Okay. 788 00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:24,840 Are you ready for the this? 789 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:25,840 Yes. 790 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:26,840 Okay. 791 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:36,080 The words for the star are happiness, hope, light at the end of the tunnel and good fortune. 792 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,080 Okay. 793 00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:45,920 And so similar to the visual in our card imagery here, this lovely card often portrays a 794 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,920 nude female figure in or beside a pool of water. 795 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,240 She too is pouring from jugs. 796 00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:56,440 So very, very on point with a ghosty. 797 00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,680 In the writer wait Smith Deck, she pours the contents of one picture into a stream and 798 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:07,960 the other onto the ground, showing the connection between the two feminine elements, water 799 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,800 and earth. 800 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:16,760 Stars shine in the background, sometimes in a circle or like, oh, or a halo-like formation 801 00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,800 around her. 802 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,160 The naked woman represents truth and purity. 803 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,000 Did you see how that word just like almost wouldn't come out of my mouth? 804 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,240 Like you were burning from the inside. 805 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:30,240 From the inside out. 806 00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:31,240 So pure. 807 00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,480 The jugs contain the waters of life. 808 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:35,480 Okay. 809 00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:40,920 And that's all I'm going to read because I think on the description otherwise it differs 810 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:41,920 with this one. 811 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,200 So I'm going to, I'm going to continue one. 812 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:47,200 There's an extra excerpt. 813 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,200 Okay. 814 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:49,560 I'm going to read that first. 815 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,880 You always look at me with that eye. 816 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:53,880 Like you know something I don't. 817 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:54,880 I do. 818 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,400 Hope. 819 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:03,800 Which whispered from Pandora's Box only after all the other plagues and sorrows had escaped 820 00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,400 is the best and last of all things. 821 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,000 I feel like that's very fitting for this. 822 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,000 Wow. 823 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,160 There was a lot of hurt on a lot of sides. 824 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:16,160 Yeah. 825 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:17,160 Okay. 826 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:18,160 Listen to this. 827 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:25,120 Reversed interpretation says trust life and its processes and yourself. 828 00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:31,080 The reversed star can mean you're following your path in a private way instead of shining 829 00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,760 your light into the outer world. 830 00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:39,840 The blessings you receive may be spiritual rather than material. 831 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:46,680 Perhaps you feel devitalized, uninspired or low on self esteem at this time." 832 00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:47,680 Aww. 833 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:54,000 "After you attune yourself to what your soul needs, you'll feel more energized and inharmony 834 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,040 with who you truly are. 835 00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:03,240 In a reading about money, you may feel disappointed because a hoped for payment or payoff gets delayed. 836 00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:07,920 Even though you're trying hard, your efforts don't bear much fruit. 837 00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,160 The time may not be right yet. 838 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:11,160 Don't give up." 839 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,480 Do you know how long this... 840 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:15,480 The lawsuit? 841 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:16,480 Yes. 842 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:17,480 Thank you. 843 00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:18,480 Yes. 844 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,480 I don't... 845 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:26,200 The details on the timeline of the lawsuit aren't in front of mine for me, so I'd have to check. 846 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,240 I just hope that that doesn't take as long. 847 00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:30,840 You can imagine. 848 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:37,080 Yeah, just, you know, a casual 20 years. 849 00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:42,880 If the reading is about your job, you may be hiding your light under a bushel. 850 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:51,520 You don't realize your true abilities and thus aren't getting ahead as quickly as you could. 851 00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:59,920 The star reversed can also represent disillusionment, disenchantment, or lack of inspiration. 852 00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:00,920 Oh, okay. 853 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:01,920 Yeah. 854 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:02,920 Oh, boy. 855 00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:09,360 In a reading about love, this card can mean your expectations are unrealistic. 856 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:15,520 Your searching for perfection, which can never be attained, or it can indicate you aren't 857 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,600 seeing your partner or your relationship clearly. 858 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:25,200 Hmm, like maybe you actually didn't have one with Arpana and that really pissed you off. 859 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,200 Oh, I don't know. 860 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,440 I don't like it either, but here we are. 861 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,080 There's one more extra excerpts. 862 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,080 Okay. 863 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,760 I saved it for the aim. 864 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,960 One is the faith that leads to achievement. 865 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:46,000 Nothing can be done without hope and confidence. 866 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,200 Yeah. 867 00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,040 I don't have a lot of confidence, but I do have some hope. 868 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:53,040 Some hope. 869 00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:54,040 Yeah. 870 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:55,040 Yeah. 871 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:56,040 We have to do otherwise. 872 00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,640 What the fuck is the point? 873 00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:58,640 What is there? 874 00:56:58,640 --> 00:56:59,640 Yeah. 875 00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:00,640 Wow. 876 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:06,560 Well, I just, I was thinking heavy about Arpana, obviously, when I was shuffling and I 877 00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,400 just feel like she is just a star, you know? 878 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:17,880 Cassie, did you notice on the altar, the incense burner I have is decorated in stars? 879 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:18,880 Yeah. 880 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,120 I put out these citrine stars. 881 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:23,720 That's right. 882 00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:31,760 And I pointed out to you when we were at Curiosity's earlier, a really cool, kind of like 883 00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,000 a rot iron-looking star. 884 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,760 There's been everywhere. 885 00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:37,760 Everywhere. 886 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,040 That's really interesting. 887 00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:40,040 She was with us. 888 00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,480 Maybe she knew we were going to talk about her today. 889 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,960 You want to hear something even wilder? 890 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,360 Maybe. 891 00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,720 I watched the rest of practical magic last night. 892 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,040 Chris had never seen it. 893 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:54,040 And wait. 894 00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:55,040 What? 895 00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:56,040 I know. 896 00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:57,040 I know. 897 00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,720 We're not getting married unless you watch this. 898 00:57:58,720 --> 00:57:59,720 So good. 899 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:00,720 Buckle up. 900 00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:01,720 Yeah. 901 00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:02,720 Yeah. 902 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:08,160 I think if you didn't see it as a child, it probably doesn't hold the same charm. 903 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,760 So, but he's a lovely man. 904 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:11,760 So he watched it. 905 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:12,760 Good play. 906 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:13,760 Good play. 907 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:14,760 Good play. 908 00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:15,760 Yeah. 909 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:16,760 Buckle. 910 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:24,840 Do you remember what she says when she does her spell as a little girl, all of the different 911 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:28,360 requirements for the man that she would fall in love with? 912 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,440 The star is his favorite shape. 913 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:31,440 Uh-huh. 914 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,440 And then we'll see what we can do. 915 00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:34,440 Yeah. 916 00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:35,440 We'll see what we can do. 917 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:36,440 We'll see what we can do. 918 00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:37,440 We'll see what we can do. 919 00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:38,440 We'll see what we can do. 920 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:39,440 We'll see what we can do. 921 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:40,440 We'll see what we can do. 922 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:41,440 We'll see what we can do. 923 00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:42,440 We'll see what we can do. 924 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:43,440 We'll see what we can do. 925 00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:44,440 We'll see what we can do. 926 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:45,440 We'll see what we can do. 927 00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:46,440 We'll see what we can do. 928 00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:47,440 We'll see what we can do. 929 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:48,440 We'll see what we can do. 930 00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:49,440 We'll see what we can do. 931 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:50,440 We'll see what we can do. 932 00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:51,440 We'll see what we can do. 933 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:52,440 We'll see what we can do. 934 00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:53,440 We'll see what we can do. 935 00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:54,440 We'll see what we can do. 936 00:58:54,440 --> 00:59:01,440 We'll see what we can do. 937 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:02,440 We'll see what we can do. 938 00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:03,440 We'll see what we can do. 939 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:04,440 We'll see what we can do. 940 00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:05,440 We'll see what we can do. 941 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:06,440 We'll see what we can do. 942 00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:07,440 We'll see what we can do. 943 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:08,440 We'll see what we can do. 944 00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:09,440 We'll see what we can do. 945 00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:10,440 We'll see what we can do. 946 00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:11,440 We'll see what we can do. 947 00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:12,440 We'll see what we can do. 948 00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:13,440 We'll see what we can do. 949 00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:14,440 We'll see what we can do. 950 00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:15,440 We'll see what we can do. 951 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:16,440 We'll see what we can do. 952 00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:17,440 We'll see what we can do. 953 00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:18,440 We'll see what we can do. 954 00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:19,440 We'll see what we can do. 955 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:20,440 We'll see what we can do. 956 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:21,440 We'll see what we can do. 957 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:22,440 We'll see what we can do. 958 00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,440 We'll see what we can do. 959 00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:25,440 We'll see what we can do. 960 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:26,440 We'll see what we can do. 961 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:27,440 We'll see what we can do. 962 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:28,440 We'll see what we can do. 963 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:29,440 We'll see what we can do. 964 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:30,440 We'll see what we can do. 965 00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:31,440 We'll see what we can do. 966 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:32,440 We'll see what we can do. 967 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:33,440 We'll see what we can do. 968 00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:34,440 We'll see what we can do. 969 00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:35,440 We'll see what we can do. 970 00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:36,440 We'll see what we can do. 971 00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:37,440 We'll see what we can do. 972 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:38,440 We'll see what we can do. 973 00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:39,440 We'll see what we can do. 974 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:40,440 We'll see what we can do. 975 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:41,440 We'll see what we can do. 976 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:42,440 We'll see what we can do. 977 00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:43,440 We'll see what we can do. 978 00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:44,440 We'll see what we can do. 979 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:45,440 We'll see what we can do. 980 00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:46,440 We'll see what we can do. 981 00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:47,440 We'll see what we can do. 982 00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:48,440 We'll see what we can do. 983 00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:49,440 We'll see what we can do. 984 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:50,440 We'll see what we can do. 985 00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:51,440 We'll see what we can do. 986 00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:52,440 We'll see what we can do. 987 00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:53,440 We'll see what we can do. 988 00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:54,440 We'll see what we can do. 989 00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:55,440 We'll see what we can do. 990 00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:56,440 We'll see what we can do. 991 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:57,440 We'll see what we can do. 992 00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:58,440 We'll see what we can do. 993 00:59:58,440 --> 00:59:59,440 We'll see what we can do. 994 00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:00,440 We'll see what we can do. 995 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:01,440 We'll see what we can do. 996 01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:02,440 We'll see what we can do. 997 01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:03,440 We'll see what we can do. 998 01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:04,440 We'll see what we can do. 999 01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,440 We'll see what we can do. 1000 01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:06,440 We'll see what we can do. 1001 01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:07,440 We'll see what we can do. 1002 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,440 If you listen to the show, you'll get it. 1003 01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:11,440 Yeah. 1004 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,440 You will totally understand. 1005 01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:20,440 If you can't support us monetarily, no worries because the easiest ways to support are absolutely free. 1006 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:25,440 Tell everyone in anyone you come into contact with about us unless they're like a bad person. 1007 01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:26,440 Yeah. 1008 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:27,440 Then maybe don't. 1009 01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,440 We don't necessarily need listeners that badly, I guess. 1010 01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,440 Because they probably wouldn't leave us a five star review like you would on any platform. 1011 01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:36,440 Yeah. 1012 01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:37,440 Yeah. 1013 01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,440 I mean, that's really solid reasoning, I feel. 1014 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:47,440 If you have any true crime paranormal or whichy stories to submit for our listener appreciation episodes, 1015 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:56,440 also known as creepy people chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com 1016 01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:02,440 or you can use our handy dandy Google contact link in the episode description. 1017 01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:09,440 Or if you want to go to our website, there's ways to do all of the things from there as well. 1018 01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:16,440 You're always welcome to remain anonymous if you choose to send in a story and they don't even have to be from the Pacific Northwest. 1019 01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:17,440 Yeah. 1020 01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,440 It's a good excuse to take a little vacation. 1021 01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:20,440 Yeah. 1022 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,440 We're just touring around the world, you know? 1023 01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:23,440 Yeah. 1024 01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:28,440 As opposed to what is typically a very dark and dreary staycation. 1025 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:29,440 Yeah. 1026 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:41,440 Follow us on all of the socials if you don't want to miss out on photos of our tarot cards, the beautiful altar setups and a lot of backstage shenanigans. 1027 01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,440 We make a lot of fun, fun stuff. 1028 01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:45,440 Yeah, we do. 1029 01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:54,440 You can find our website pnwhauntsandhomicides.com and link tree in the description of this episode to check out all of this super creepy fun we have to offer. 1030 01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:55,440 All of it, man. 1031 01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:56,440 Yeah. 1032 01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,440 Have a creepy ass Halloween. 1033 01:01:58,440 --> 01:01:59,440 Halloween. 1034 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,440 That will still see you next Tuesday. 1035 01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:07,440 We're not going to change into different people, especially mermaids because I don't like the water that much. 1036 01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:08,440 I love the water. 1037 01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,440 Oh, you can become a mermaid. 1038 01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:11,440 Okay. 1039 01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:12,440 Yeah. 1040 01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:13,440 You can. 1041 01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,440 Well, I especially won't be because I'm a dead mermaid and I don't want to be that for sure. 1042 01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:18,440 Yeah. 1043 01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:26,440 In keeping with our distinct and very oftentimes differing personalities, she's a dead mermaid. 1044 01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:29,440 And I'm like, yay, pretty mermaid. 1045 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,440 It's going to be such a funny picture we're about to take. 1046 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:34,440 I have some mermaid purse. 1047 01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:35,440 Okay, mom. 1048 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:36,440 I'm not out. 1049 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:37,440 Bye. 1050 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:38,440 Bye. 1051 01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:39,440 Happy Halloween. 1052 01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:40,440 Happy Halloween. 1053 01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:41,440 Me, me. 1054 01:02:41,440 --> 01:03:10,440 [Music] 1055 01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,440 I am a dead mermaid. 1056 01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:14,440 [Laughs] 1057 01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:15,440 [Laughs] 1058 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:16,440 [Laughs] 1059 01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:17,440 [Laughs] 1060 01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:23,440 [MUSIC]