Enjoying our creepy content? Please show your support! You can join as a paid subscriber on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Please leave us a 5-star review (we hope!) on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have a Creepy Ass Day!
Today we’re traveling to one of the most mysterious and magical places in the Pacific Northwest - the Columbia River Gorge. James Szubski, CEO of Margie’s Outdoor Store explains all about how The Gorge became so… well, gorgeous! But natural beauty isn’t the only thing special about this remarkable place. It’s full of paranormal hot spots, bringing stories of strange sightings right to the doorstep of Margie’s. Many of these unexplained reports involve a creature they’re calling The Klickitat Ape Cat! Have you had an encounter with something you can’t quite explain? File a report here - in a safe, non judgmental place!
Today we’re sharing a promo for the podcast, Perhaps Its You!
If you're enjoying our podcast, please consider leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. It helps get us seen by more creepy people just like you! Visit our website!
Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com or use this link. Another great way to support the show is by making a one time donation through BuyMeACoffee.
AD Music from Uppbeat License YWG9BPO0I7XYQBBQ. Cover art by The Three Cs.
[Music that invokes a true crime, paranormal, & witchy vibe] The Columbia River Gorge forms of boundary between Washington state and Oregon State. My operating theory is that because there was these incredible traumas to the earth here, these are places where the boundaries between worlds has been worn thin. And so some people say the veil is thin here and so things that live or exist in other dimensions or their planes of existence, it's easier for them to pass here because this trauma has happened here.
Cassie:Hi, Caitlyn.
Caitlyn:Hi, Cassie.
Cassie:Hi creepy people.
Caitlyn:Helloooo!
Cassie:If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, especially if you're from UFO fest that was in McMinnville this past weekend. Hello and welcome! This is PNW Haunts & Homicides where we chat about true crime, the paranormal and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest. Hence, the PNW.
Caitlyn:We do a Tarot reading at the end of every episode for deeper insight. So make sure you stick around all the way to the end. If you're into that.
Cassie:All the way to the end.
Caitlyn:All the way at the end.
Cassie:And you know, you gotta catch our our sign off. Oh, yeah. So you don't want to miss that have a creepy ass day. Because that just like makes your day.
Caitlyn:[Whispers] Cassie, you just said it.
Cassie:I mean, they know what it is.
Caitlyn:And now it's like they don't even have to wait. What if they didn't know what it was?
Cassie:I take it back.
Caitlyn:What if they met us at UFO fest? And we were like, What is that thing that they say at the end, oh my god?
Cassie:Well, now they know that they have to stay.
Caitlyn:Okay. Here's hopin'.
Cassie:So today we are joined by James- and can you say your last name for me?
James:Sure. It's pronounced "shoob-ski."
Cassie:James Szubski.
James:Very good..
Cassie:Yay, I did it! James is CEO of Marty's outdoor store in Bingen?
James:Bingen. That's a it's a confusing a lot of people seem to have trouble with it. So you're not alone.
Cassie:And we're all about we have to pronounce things right because we're in this area. So Margie's Outdoor Store in Bingen, Washington. And that's about an hour east of Portland. But don't let the store's name fool you. This place is quite eclectic. I think Caitlyn would actually like it. There's not only outdoor activity gear, but paranormal supplies, which he supplies. There's jewelry, books, games, exotic drinks, and gourmet snacks like Hello, we're coming.
Caitlyn:I'm on my way!
Cassie:So what led you to incorporate paranormal and witchy supplies into an outdoor store?
James:Well, so I've really only been running the store for about two years. The store is originally started by my mother and last Margie Lemberger. And she passed away like I said a few years ago, and so someone needed to come down and run the family business. And so that fell to me. And the store is a little bit different format when I started, you know, managing it. And I have a lot of outdoor experience. So I was a infantry soldier with the 199 special battalion, I was a wildland force firefighter mountain guide, and more recently a search and rescue EMT.
Cassie:Oh wow. So very outdoorsy.
James:You know, I really love adventure. And I was kind of excited. You know, I have been coming to the Columbia River Gorge area since 1988. I'm originally from Ohio, and I moved out here with the military. And once I got to Washington State, I thought, Oh man, I'm in heaven. So I have a lot of experience with Outdoor Gear. And I thought, you know, if we turn the store into an outdoor store, that's a business I could be successful with. And it wasn't long after we open that people started coming in and telling us about their unusual experiences in the wilderness areas of the gorge. And so we're talking about Sasquatch stories and UFO stories and other really strange things. And so I thought, well, on a personal level, this is fascinating. I've always been kind of into spiritual things, and you know, things of that nature. And here were these like legitimate Scooby Doo mysteries walking through my front door every day. And I thought, wow, we really want to encourage us, you know, it's one of the things like, I literally compete against Amazon, and I compete against Rei and Cabela's and all these big name stores and I'm a small town shop, there's no way I can compete and the only way I can do that is being unique and interesting and special.
Caitlyn:Yeah, we hear that.
James:And so we put a big sign in the window that said file your paranormal reports here. And it had you know, UFO sightings, Sasquatch sightings, Portal openings, time lapse, time anomalies, all these different kinds of things.
Cassie:So many things!
James:This is what people were coming in and telling us. And boy, did that work! Holy Cow, I had no idea.
Caitlyn:I can imagine!
James:One of the things that was our guiding principle from the very beginning was that we would treat the people who came in and told us their unusual stories with respect and dignity, we wouldn't question them, we wouldn't laugh at them, we would recognize that they have had an experience, which is maybe outside of the norm. But that doesn't mean that they're crazy, or that they don't deserve respect, or to be listened to fully right. And that has turned out to be amazing in so many different ways. First of all, there has been this incredible human connection, like when someone has had a really unusual experience, and they maybe tell their relatives or friends about it, and their friends nervously laugh, and we're trying to tell them, they didn't see what they think they saw. It can be very isolating, and to have a place where you can go, and people believe you and take you seriously, in many times, if it's a recent event, we'll even go out and follow up on it.
Cassie:Oh, wow.
James:Yeah. And so that has been like, on a personal level, more rewarding than I could have possibly imagined. You know, I was excited to hear these interesting stories. But to make these genuinely human connections with folks who have had something really out of the ordinary happened to them, and who don't have anywhere else to turn to. Well, we have gained a reputation as being just that a place where it's a safe place to tell your unusual tales. And so in the past, I would say it's not quite a year and a half that we've been doing this, we've had over 170 reports.
Caitlyn:Whoa, wow.
James:Yeah, turns out that the gorge Columbia River Gorge is in a gigantic paranormal hotspot, and we can get into the reasons for that. It has to do with the truly apocalyptic geology that formed the gorge to begin with. It's an amazing tale. And like I said, one that we can get into as as the interview progresses, but so it's been, like I said, really neat to have these people walking in the door. And of course, there are some people that are just coming in and having fun, and you know, no harm, no foul, like, if someone's got it. Yeah. Or, you know, they're making up or they're exaggerating experience. Yeah, and but it's surprisingly few, like you would think like a bunch of people come in. And honestly, a lot of the stories are not even that dramatic. Like, you know, we're gonna get into this Klickitat Ape Cat, this giant black panther creature that we've had close to 60 reports of. Anyway, some of those tails are like, Well, I was riding my ATV and the trails in the woods is giant black cat jumped across trails scared the crap out of me. And I never saw it again. And like, that's the whole report.
Cassie:Right? Yeah, there's no like embellishing details.
James:Yeah. Some of them are very detailed. And, you know, and people will spend, you know, maybe 45 minutes to an hour describing trust their remarkable experiences. Wow. And so once we started to become known for this, I thought, well, this is a really neat thing to do. Like, as an outdoor store, we of course, have all the things you'd expect to see. So sleeping bags, tents, rock climbing, ropes, rock climbing gear, you know, stoves, all that kind of stuff that the typical fare. And then we also have a sort of, I guess, I grew up in the ad, so we call it a new age section. Right, right.
Cassie:Yeah, it's not very new anymore.
James:Middle Age, whatever. I'm not sure what to call it. But and so we have things like, you know, singing bowls, and pendants, Oracle pendants, a lot of tarot card decks, incense, that kind of stuff.
Cassie:That's what we refer to as the witchy supplies.
James:Witchy supplies 100%! A lot of really fun books in that same vein, you know, magical Tomes, and, you know, blank journals. And then we also have tabletop games. So I'm a giant Dungeons and Dragons nerd, like from the old school. In fact, I even worked for Wizards of the Coast for a little while, and a company that makes Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah, and so this map that you see behind me, was hand drawn by myself. And it is of the Columbia River Gorge. And it locates it has, where a lot of the paranormal sightings are. We've got a big version of this up on the wall on the store so people can check out where things happen, but that's cool. Yeah. So you know, for me, this whole idea of adventure has, you know, been coming to come by it honestly, right, since I was 10 years old, playing Dungeons and Dragons in the basement dreaming about adventures. And then as a soldier and a firefighter and EMT search and rescue all that kind stuff. I was living that and you know, I had what I thought were a lot of 10 out of 10 experiences but then you layer in this like genuine, serious, honest to goodness paranormal layer on top of all that, and oh my gosh, the adventures that happen out here in the Columbia River Gorge are utterly remarkable and I guess we'll get into the details and some of the fun stories as we get. You know, there's tales of, you know, murder people being thrown off high rocks and Oh, ghosts, trailheads and UFOs, and lights in the sky. And like I said, cryptids galore. The thing that is the coolest part about it to me is that it's part of the culture here in the gorge, like it is really, really common to have a neighbor who has seen Sasquatch, or UFO or a giant black cat. Like it is kind of par for the course out here. In fact, Skamania County, which is where my home is, so the store is in Klickitat. County, and highway 14 And my home is in Stevenson, which is in Skamania. County. It's convenient County is the only county in the country that has laws on the book that make it illegal to hunt and kill Bigfoot. That's right, you will get fined and go to prison. If if you bag a Sasquatch here in the county, and so-
Cassie:That is a good law because oh my gosh, can you imagine someone finally finds them? And they're like, Oh, we shot um!
James:I know it's. And so like I said, I'd been visiting the gorge since 1988. And it was a real, just a dream come true to be able to move down here and then have this business and sort of be the hub of all these incredible mysteries and strange occurrences. So I've got a nine year old daughter, and I bought an FJ Cruiser, kind of a special Toyota off road vehicle. And it's rigged. We've got you know, five cameras and drones and spotlights and all kinds of gear. And so when we get to that report, me and my nine year old daughter hit the trails and we go follow up on these investigations.
Cassie:That's awesome. That's the best bonding.
James:Oh my god, she loves it. You know, we I dropped her off at school in this thing, and it's got big logo stickers on the side and everything. She has that like that's no big deal. Yeah, my dad says cryptid Hunter. Whatever.
Cassie:Man, she is so cool in school.
James:Yeah, that's kind of like the background. So we've got this really fun store. We were voted the best outdoor outfit or the best gift store, and the best attraction and the gorge because of our focus on these things.
Cassie:That's awesome.
James:Yeah, a ton of fun.
Caitlyn:[Magic wand chimes] As indie podcasters we love to show our support of other awesome shows. So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.
Cassie:Let's show them some love! You can find their info in our show notes.
Perhaps It's You:Why Hello, friends and enemies. Hello friends and enemies, friends, enemies. Hello friends and enemies gather round. In theory, this is on Unsolved Mysteries podcast. Perhaps It's You, that's the name of the show. I'm Samantha. I'm Liz. We're one of many unsolved mysteries rewatch podcasts watching the original Robert Stack episodes of unsolved mysteries are here to complain about the thing we're supposed to like Unsolved Mysteries. Unsolved Mysteries. It was a great shot. They're doing the Lord's work. I will say right off the bat that this is going to be a good moustache season. I like to think that Robert Stack wore a full suit just to like take out the garbage all the time. Yeah. Are you ready to solve some mysteries with us? The Stack is back. That's man, that's really terrible. Yeah. But i love saying it. We're here to talk to you about some fucking mysteries. We sure are. We're on like all those podcasts things or you can listen to perhaps it's your.com. We hope this brought a little mystery into your life. Keep cackling and keep barking everybody.
Together:You guys were back!
Cassie:And don't worry. We did get more wine.
Caitlyn:Well, of course. [Magic wand chimes]
Cassie:Yeah, let's get into the Ape Cat, I really want to know about this.
Caitlyn:She's like, let's just dive right in
Cassie:Because I've never heard about it. And I didn't do any research because I was really excited for you to tell me
James:Ah, you found one of my favorite topics. But first I about. want to set the scene and for some of your listeners who haven't been out here I want to just briefly describe what the gorge is like. So the Columbia River Gorge forms of boundary between Washington state and Oregon State and it is the largest river in North and South America that flows into the Pacific. It runs through the Cascade Mountains and in fact it is the only sea level passage through the Cascade Mountains and so there are points of the gorge where the river is at sea level and less than a mile at either side. Your 5000 foot mountains. It is stunningly beautiful. And it has the highest concentration of waterfalls anywhere in America. Now the west side of the mountains is all Pacific Northwest rainforest. And so super lush green, lots of cover. And then once you get to the eastern half, it turns into high plains desert and so we've got desert mesas and all kinds of very arid kind of.
Cassie:You can kind of see it on the map.
James:Exactly, yeah. Within 40 Five miles of my store, there are three stratovolcanoes. So that's Mount Hood, Mount Adams and Mount St. Helens and famously Mount St. Helens erupted in 1980. And so and then mount Mount Adams, which is right above my head here. We call that portal peak. Because from the very earliest days of UFO sightings in America, Mount Adams is featured prominently in those. And so there are tons of stories about UFOs being spotted around Mount Adams. There's even some stories that there is a physical door like a hangar door that opens towards the summit of Mount Adams. In fact, I can show you a picture of that.
Cassie:Have you heard of that, Caitlyn?
Caitlyn:I have not
Cassie:.Me neither!
James:But what's neat is that there is a river that runs right off of Mount Adams called the White Salmon River, and it flows into the Columbia. And then there's a river that flows right off of Mount Hood, which is right behind me. And that flows into the Columbia River. And so literally, it forms this X, there's this, the Columbia River, which has flowed for basically 20 million years, there's very strong energy current going through there. And then these two flows that are intersecting it, and my store is sort of right, where X marks the spot. So right where my nose is, is kind of where my store is on the map. And so it is this place of incredible mixing of energies, you know, these so there's the vertical energy from the mountains and the flowing energy from the rivers intersecting in that one spot. So an incredibly powerful place. And, you know, get a little bit further on this. So it was formed. It was forged in fire and carved by cataclysm. So like I said, this river has been flowing here for 20 million years. And anyone who mean even if you're not spiritually sensitive at all, if you get close to that river, and you close your eyes and quiet your mind, you can feel the energy flowing like it is undeniable that rivers been flowing here for a very long time. Then about 15 million years ago, these great fissures opened in the earth, right at the Idaho border. And fountains of lava just like the kind of lava you see in Hawaii, like we're spewing out of these things. And, and it happened over 300 times over the course of several million years. And lava like ruby red lava flowed from the Idaho border all the way across Washington state, all the way to the ocean, that's 300 miles, right, wow. And it's such an in some places. This, this, the rock that was left behind is called basalt. And many times it forms these beautiful hexagonal columns. But there are places in eastern Washington, that the basalt is three miles deep, so that you get a sense of like, the just vast amount of lava that is spewing out of the earth, like fountains of lava. And it's flowing across, and it's battling the river the whole time. And the river persisted through this incredible like apocalypse of fire, which destroyed everything in its path. But the river was its current, its, you know, intention was so strong that it was it battle. And there are many places where you can see like the interaction of the water and lava, but it remained. And so that's this incredible, like, that's the first layer of amazingness. And those lava flows happened, they estimate over 300 times. And so we've got this layer cake of rock formations, you know, one right after the other, then about 2 million years ago, is when the Cascade Mountain started rising is here, the strong vertical energy coming up, and they're forming the stratovolcanoes, and all of the mountains themselves. And you look at like Mount St. Helens, it's, you know, less than 2 million years old. So a lot of these mounds around here are fairly young. And again, the river is battling. And so the river was here first. And it's one of the few places in the world where the mountains grew up around the river and the river stayed. And so that's this really interesting, energetic dynamic going on there. And then one of the most interesting and amazing thing that happened happened 15,000 years ago, so I don't know if you're familiar with the author Graham Hancock, or Randall Carlson. These are guys that talk about catastrophism where it says that there was things happened on earth that basically were these global cataclysms that wiped out mankind as we know it, and only a few people remained. They believed that there were advanced civilizations existing during the Ice Age. events occurred during the ice age that were global cataclysms. Many of those civilizations were wiped out. Only a few people survived and they rebuilt things and they were the ones that like schooled the Egyptians and the Babylonians, the Sumerians and how to recreate culture. Well, one of the biggest places for evidence of this is in eastern Washington. They have what's out there called The Channeled Scablands and 15,000 years ago, the greatest flood in the history of Earth occurred, what they believe happened. The timeframe, geologically, is called the Younger Dryas and what they believe happened was, you have the big ice sheet up there, you know, because it's the Ice Age is a giant glaciers covering all of Canada, they believe a series of asteroids and meteorites impacted the ice shelf and flash melted it, creating this enormous flood. Now, it's impossible to imagine but this whole area and this side of my head, like, it's called a channeled Scablands, because it has got the most fantastic, unbelievable geology. And they can tell from the evidence that basically, the entirety of Eastern Washington was flooded over 400 feet of water, there was traveling 60 miles an hour in trained with icebergs and sediment, and it sort of scoured the earth, they estimate that this flood was 10 times the flow of all rivers on earth combined.
Cassie:Oh my gosh.
James:All that water flowed across eastern Washington State, creating this incredible magical, unbelievable landscape, it got stopped at a place called Wallula Gap, which is sort of like this, the only place where you can drain into the ocean, it's sort of like the beginning of the Columbia River Gorge. And then that water started shooting down the gorge. And there are places in the gorge where the water was over 600 feet deep, 700 feet deep, and it's scouring away all of anything that was in its path. The Gorge then is kind of turned into what we see today. And that's why we've got all these waterfalls. And you can see all this bare rock and these amazing formations. And so my operating theory is that because there was these incredible traumas to the earth here, these are places where the boundaries between worlds has been worn thin. And so some people say the veil is thin here. And so things that live or exist in other one way to say this dimensions are their planes of existence, it's easier for them to pass here because this trauma has happened here. I'm sure if you've done any witchy stuff, you're familiar with this idea what happens above so below, you look at like at the base level where we spend most of our daily time is in the physical plane, and then just above that as the etheric and the astral, mental and spiritual plane. And so there are these truly Earth changing traumas that occurred here we see the evidence on the physical plane. And so, if this maxim is true that what happens above happens below what happens below happens above like, these are cataclysmic events that are occurring all up and down the planes of existence, right. And so whatever was happening in the physical realm was also happening, etheric realm, astral realm, in that representation of this same place. Now, when that giant flood happened, literally 90% of the megafauna on North and South America went extinct. Sea levels, Rose 400 feet. And so the earth was completely changed, right. And so we've got this place here. That is, jaw droppingly Beautiful and unlike any other place in the world, but from my experience, it is also this place where it is a live wire in terms of etheric creatures or beings or the ability to access other planes of existence, whether those things are slipping into our physical realm, or humans are inadvertently slipping into the etheric realm as they're adventuring here. So that's kind of the setting that we're talking about. That's what this map is behind me. And that's why my stores got 170 Paranormal reports and in just a little over a year. And so you had asked me about this cat. So what's the story with that? So we call it the Klickitat Ape Cat, because most of the sightings have occurred here in Klickitat County, which is right over the shoulder here. And so Klickitat county sits on that transition point of the rainforests to desert, right. And I'm sure you've folks know, with any kind of witchy experience, that is those places of transition, dusk and dawn, where things are making a transition where that's where you find the veil is also thin, right? So that's kind of like in spades happening right here in the Columbia River Gorge, and specifically in Bingen, where my store is located. And so we've got this signup, coming in, follow your paranormal reports, and a guy comes in. He had known my mother in law, and she had helped his family she was a pharmacist. And so she had helped his mother who had was having an allergic reaction to some medicine and so a friend of the family, and it takes him 45 minutes to work up the courage. Tell me the story. And he said that he was orienteering out near Buck Creek, which is probably where this year is. And so he had his compass in hand and his compass started acting weird. And then he looked up, and he saw this enormous black cat creature sitting across the creek from him. He described it as very muscular, and black fur. It stood four to five feet tall at the shoulder. So, right there, that should be a clue because even tigers, the largest living cat on the planet don't grow to be that big.
Caitlyn:That's real big. Too big.
James:It's gigantic. And so he said that he could he felt like he was having he was in the presence of something unusual or special or, you know, his term was magical. And this creature looked at him. And he said, you know, the strangest thing was that it had a face that looked like a monkey. And I was like, never heard of that. And of course, you know-
Caitlyn:That's different.
James:And we, again, we don't prejudge, we don't try to insert what we think you saw. So I'm taking the information and asking questions about it. So well, you know, it had intelligent ape like eyes, it seemed to know it was seemed to be fully conscious, like it knew it was that we were having a moment, it seemed intelligent, and it looked like, the best I can tell you is that it looked like a cross between a big cat and a monkey. And I thought, wow, this is, you know, I never heard of anything like this before in my life, completely astonished and very genuine and earnest. And we, there's a couple of techniques that we use in the store for our own sanity, to determine if people are lying or being genuine. And their tells that people have, if you're interested, you can look up the the FBI has got a bunch of classes. We deploy some of those things, we also reserve certain facts about different cases. So that, you know, we look for patterns and things like that. So this guy was very credible and very genuine. But this was the first kind of report I'd ever heard of anything like this. You know, like I said, it had long fur that was four to five inches long, giant long tail. And then he said, after I looked at it for about five minutes, so it wasn't like a fleeting glimpse of this thing. And then it turned and he said it disappeared into the forest. I was like, whoa. So this was kind of towards the end of the day. And I was fascinated again, Scooby Doo Mystery walks right through my front door. Yeah. What do you do with this? And so I was super excited. The next morning, I was talking to my employees about it. And it's again, we got this really awesome report last night. I don't know what to make of it. And as I'm describing this creature, one of my employees, she starts shaking, and she's, and she's like, Oh, my God, I have seen that thing myself. Now, I gotta tell you about Missy. Missy is as honest as the day as long as she doesn't like playing practical jokes on her coworkers because it's kind of like lying.
Cassie:So pure!
James:She's a complete Sweetheart, you know and never heard like, she's never like walking around and telling tales or anything like that. She's loves waterfalls like this. One of her big hobbies is to get out into the checkout the waterfalls, but she said, Yeah, I was driving down Klickitat Canyon again, that's over the shoulder right here. And one morning, and I saw this enormous black cat, like creeping around on the side of the road, it was kind of near some houses. She was so taken aback by it, that she stopped her car to look at it. And she said, I clearly saw this enormous black cat creature with a long black tail. Now she didn't get a chance to look at its face. But she watched it for quite some time. And then it walked into a small patch tall grass. And then she never saw it leave. Eventually, she got out of her car to investigate and there was nothing there.
Cassie:She brave.
James:Yeah. She thought that maybe she should warn the people whose houses were nearby. But she's like, Oh, they're gonna think I'm crazy. So she kind of went about her way. Later, she described it to her family. And they said, Oh, well, something that big, you probably saw a cow. And she's like, I'm a grown damn woman. I know the difference between a cow and a black panther.
Cassie:Like, yeah, it's like, come on.
James:If you were like, you know, hanging out by the side of the road. And you saw Ferrari drive by? And you were telling your friends? Yeah. So let's read for our drive by like, maybe you saw red minivan? Like, what do you mean? Difference between, you know, these, these things? And so one, my gosh, she kind of got shut down by people saying, oh, that's impossible. She kind of stopped talking about it. And so that event happened to her a couple of years ago. So she kind of back up and give you a little bit of detail about cats here in the Northwest. So of course we have Cougars out here. And cougars. They are always like a tawny tan color. And if they express their melanin, so if they're going to say go darker, they usually tend towards a reddish color. So they go from Tawny to reddish. But we've talked to many wildlife experts and they say yeah, there's no such thing as a black Cougar. They just don't exist. They're not a part. They're not recognized by science in any way. The only big cats that are black in North America or South America are jaguars. And Jaguar as range is 1000 miles south of Klickitat. County. So you know, it's like southern New Mexico, Southern Arizona, that kind of area. But there's no reports of any kind of black cats. In fact, science adamantly rejects the notion that there are any black melanistic Cougars in the Pacific Northwest or anywhere else in America, for that matter. And so and so Missy, of course, I believed right. Later, she would tell me that a friend was driving to her house up Klickitat Canyon. And on the way there, she saw this enormous black creature lying in the road. And a friend didn't get a good look at her whatever. And Missy sushi got to miss his house. And this is like, we're getting back in the car and go look for it. And they went back wasn't more than 10 minutes, and no evidence drove back and forth on that stretch of road for a mile, nothing. And so, you know, I have done a little bit of research into paranormal stuff. And one of the things that happens, they say, and again, I'm not an expert, I don't want
Cassie:Same
James:Is that when an etheric creature dies in the physical to portray myself as such. I'm just a guy who's got a story that people come in and tell me stories. realm, its body sublimates, sort of like turns to vapor and goes
Cassie:Darn it. back to its home planet. Yeah, yeah. And so, again, you know, all the things that I'm talking about are super, super circumstantial evidence. So those are kind of like the first couple of stories that I had heard about this thing. And so I dove and did a deep dive like, Okay, what's the deal with big
James:But, but there is some audio, which is pretty creepy. black cats? What's their spiritual meaning? What's supernatural history on them? What's the biological history on these things? But with these two very credible reports, in my mind is like, Okay, well, I'm pretty sure that the guy who came in and told me the original story had had a legitimate experience. I can't say for sure. You know what that was or what he actually experienced, but he was genuine in his reporting of it, missy, for sure. 100%. I'm leaving my employee on her experience as well. So, you know, with my stores, we've got, you know, radio contract. And so we started putting up ads and radio, has anyone seen a big black cat compiled report at the store, but fliers at trailheads. And since that time, we've had over 60 reports, oh, wow, of this enormous black creature, right, this black panther like creature creeping around in Klickitat. County. And like I said, a lot of the reports, some of them are very mundane, some But he said that, as he finally started filming it, instantaneously, the batteries and his cell phone and his of them are more detailed. Some of them come from high ranking headlamp died simultaneously.
Cassie:Of course they did!
James:Yeah, so I did the deep dive on the research. Okay, what do we got going on here. And so there's a few things that are law enforcement officials. And these reports date back 30 to 40 very common characteristics amongst supernatural creatures. So one of the things are electromagnetic effects. And so years. So people have been seeing this thing for a long those are things that will mess with compasses and mess with batteries, that kind of stuff. So we have had some stories related to that. We have creatures that seem to defy the time. Yeah, we've had reports, someone told me that they saw it laws of nature as we understand them. So clearly, there are no in their driveway with a kit. So kitten, black cat. So it's big black cats that are four to five feet tall, the shoulder currently recognized by science. And if it's a jagwire, its way definitely something that is able to reproduce. So if it's a far out of its range. So that's again, like okay, not adhering biological creature, not a magical creature, or, you know, to the laws of nature as we understand them. We don't have any knowledge of creatures that are cat like that have a monkey supernatural creature, it's out here. And it's, you know, type face. So again, this seeming to defy the laws of nature as we currently understand them. That's another definitely being seen by numerous people. Hunters have big check. The notion that the person who's witnessing it has the sense that they're in the presence of something special, seen it through their scopes and decided not to shoot it because unique, unusual. The way that I think about it is that the Human Brain Body Soul combination is one of the few things that they figured it was endangered. A lot of people don't know that straddles the line between the physical realm and the etheric realm. So, like we all have experiences of non physical there's not supposed to be any such thing as a black Cougar, entities. So, you know, an emotion is a non physical experience, a thought is a non physical experience, even things right. So they didn't know that they had seen things. Many of like a spiritual experience and Epiphany. These are things which the folks who have had close encounters with it. We had a guy have chemical traces in our body, but they, you can't say, Where's the body of the thought? Like, right? Thoughts don't leave, leave a body behind, right? So human beings have the who was working sort of an an outbuilding, out again, near ability to, we have physical apparatus that can sense the physical world, but we also have internal apparatus that allows Buck Creek, and he said that he he heard this big cat outside. us to sense other things. And when we are in the presence of something magical. That's just my term for it, or etheric or He even captured a video and don't get excited. This video is special. Like we know it, we get goosebumps or the hair rises up on our hands, we have physical effects. And so you have a sense like basically the creatures eyes blinking and stuff like that. that you are in the presence of something not normal, right? And it's a very common thing like we it's something we all have.
Cassie:Every day when I'm next to Caitlyn, I'm like, not normal over there.
Caitlyn:Oh, boy.
Cassie:Just kidding.
James:And so that's another one of these telltale characteristics. And then there's also this notion of they seem to be able to phase in and out of our ability to see them. And so things that are there at one minute, or they're another, or that seem to be able to shape shift or change form. These are all things again, these are a constellation of clues that you look for, like okay, are we dealing with something that's physical? Are we dealing with something that's perhaps paranormal or unusual? And just to be clear, my definition of paranormal means anything which seems to defy the laws of nature as we currently understand them. In 1752, before Benjamin Franklin was flying a kite in electrical storm, electricity was paranormal, we didn't understand it. We didn't know what it was.
Caitlyn:It's changing all the time.
James:Yeah. And so if you think about it, like Franklin's neighbors was a thought he was a nutjob, like, what's he doing out there flying a kite in electrical storm?
Caitlyn:Like I mean, to be fair, that was a little bit nuts.
James:Clearly, but now, here, we understand those energies. And now we're able to talk to each other over Zoom because we've harnessed electricity and managed to work with it. So it's not to say that paranormal things aren't real, it's to say that they force us to expand our understanding of reality. Right? So we've got all these clues associated that okay, well, definitely people are experiencing something physical out there. The you know, people are aware that it's there. They're encountering it. But it also has this collection of clues that seem to indicate we might be dealing with something paranormal as well. So as we look at it, more and more reports come in, and I'll be honest with you, like I'm, I have a hard time making sense of it. And I'll get to the point where like, will go a long time, and no one will tell me it looks like a monkey kind of like yeah, maybe it's just like some kind of mutant cougar or something like rationalize, talk myself out of it. And then, you know, come across a wildland firefighter crew and they said, Yeah, we saw that damn thing scared the crap out of us. And we spent three days trying to figure out how we're going to protect ourselves if it showed up in our camp. And it had an the way they described it as more of a flattened face that looked like a monkey. And so like if you think about a dog, like a German Shepherds got a long snout, a pug has got a flattened face. So like, even within that, like to me it's possible genetically that like a mutant version of a cat could just have a shorter snout. Give the appearance of a, you know, a monkey like face. Like that.
Cassie:There are cats like that right? That have the squishy faces?
Caitlyn:That's what I was literally just thinking, I forget what they're called the Scottish Fold.
Cassie:Right!
James:Yeah. So, you know, like, and I'm trying to make sense of these things, like part of what we do is we look for patterns. And we try to figure out like, we've got a sense of what its ranges and it seems to be mostly in Klickitat County, but there's a few reports of it as far west as like Stevenson, Cascade Locks Bridge of the Gods area. And so when I investigated the history, like okay, what a black cats mean, on a spiritual level, you know, Panthers, so almost universally around the world, whether you're in Samaria, Egypt, Central America, South America, Black Panther creatures are considered protector creatures. And so you think about Bast in Egypt. You know, it's the Egyptian goddess that's got a face as she looks like a combination between a cat and a human being. So there's this vast tradition of Panther protected creatures around the world. And the Native American Nations have stories of what they call underwater Panthers. So when they talk about underwater creatures, they're meaning things that are from a different realm. Right. And so oftentimes, when you're in the spirit realm, you are either taken into the sky realm or into the underwater realm or into a cave realm, but the legends and stories surrounding these plans other creatures, and in the Great Lakes are called Michelle Chu. And in some of these descriptions of what this creature, this race of protector creatures looks like, it looks like a black panther with the face of a man. And I think, Wow, that is kind of interesting, right? Is that what we're looking at here. And in fact, if you go about 20 minutes east of my store to Horsethief, Butte Horsethief Lake area, that's a state park, there's Petroglyph Canyon. So they've got, they saved a bunch of petroglyphs that were going to be flooded by the Dalles Dam. And they put them in a place where they're easy to see and access. And there are pictures of cat like creatures with wavy water like lions under their head. And these petroglyphs are 1000s of years old here in eastern Washington. And so there seems to be that there may be a connection with these Panther like creatures in the Native American traditions of the people who lived along the river. So that's another clue to me like, Okay, well, maybe that's what we're looking at. And that's one that I'm trying to follow up on Native American nations, close knit communities takes a long time to build up trust, and I have no problem with them, you know, only after a short two years of getting to trust me. So, you know, I will take my time and be patient with hearing the stories of the people who live in this specific place about what type of cat creatures they've encountered. Now, there's also a place right about the top of my head up here called Eceti Ranch. Eceti stands for enlightened communication with extraterrestrial intelligence. Yeah, that you can go out there and you paid Jim 25 bucks, bring your own lawn chair, and you can watch your foes fly around Mount Adams all night. People come from all over the world. And people come skeptics and they leave believers. A lot of times what people see are floating orbs, there's lots of videos on YouTube, people have been out to the ranch. In fact, the pictures of the hangar door opening on Mount Adams are from Eceti Ranch. The interesting thing about Eceti Ranch is the report to have communication with numerous extraterrestrial intelligence species. And for them, I don't think that they're necessarily talking about aliens from other planets. I think they're talking about beings from other dimensions or planes of existence. And I'm not an expert on their beliefs. But I do know that their logo has the face of a lion in it, and one of the races of creatures that they apparently communicate with regularly our feline humanoids, it's a pretty incredible coincidence. And again, I don't know, like I said, so we've had probably, like I said, 60 reports. All of those reports describe a big, muscular cat creature black in color with a long black tail. But half of those reports say the creature is enormous in size, so four to five feet tall to shoulder gigantic. And then a handful of them say that the creature has got probably like five or six reports. So the creatures got a face that looks like a monkey and has other primate features. So supernatural creatures shapeshifters, we may be dealing with different kinds of creatures here that people are seeing things that are similar, but are actually different, we may be dealing with something which is able to change its form. Or it may be that as people perceive it, they're perceiving what they're capable of perceiving. And for some, they're only capable of perceiving what they expect to see or something within the realm of expectation, other people may be more open to different experiences. But the long and short of it is that I have no idea what this thing is. But I have had enough reports to be a complete believer, there's no doubt in my mind that there is a large black pet creature, roaming the canyons and forests of Klickitat county out here in Washington State. But the most interesting, plausible explanation may have to do with the Hanford Nuclear site. So that's the tale of Hanford. So for your listeners who don't know, Hanford was the Department of Energy's first black site. It was developed during the Manhattan Project. So famously, during World War Two, the allies were concerned that the Nazis were going to unlock the secrets of the atom before we did. And so we engage in this gigantic Manhattan Project. And everyone knows that the Nazis were they were fearful that they would create an atomic bomb and what that could mean, what a lot of people don't remember is that the Nazis were also highly involved in biological experimentation creating super soldiers, super animals, that type of thing.
Caitlyn:Eugenics.
James:Exactly. And so back in the 1940s, people, their understanding of radiation and what it could do was tiny compared to what we know now and then well, a lot of what we know now came out of the studies at Hanford, but back then we knew for sure, that radiation seemed to induce mutations in creatures right so that much we knew anything The house was kind of mysterious, right? And part of the terror was so the Nazis had trained and deployed 200,000 dogs to fight alongside of their soldiers. They had also resurrected an extinct Ice Age creature called the aurochs. This is an enormous hyper aggressive bull, sort of like a match like a pissed off buffalo. That's way bigger.
Caitlyn:Not great.
Cassie:That doesn't seem safe.
James:So through retro breeding, they actually claim to have brought this thing back to life and populate an entire forest in Europe with them. And their idea is they're going to be these great Aryan hunters and go kill these things like real men or some shit like that. But anyway, they were successful. So not only are the American wartime leaders nervous about the bomb, but they're also like, what if they unlock the secrets of the atom and mutations and create some kind of super creatures, a super soldier like, that needs to be a part of our atomic program. And so from the very beginning, a lot of people don't know that Hanford had an animal testing lab. And the guy that they chose to lead the animal testing lab, as they're building Hanford, which again, is so well, at Los Alamos, they're building the bomb, they're designing the bombs, kind of a lot of highly educated physicists and engineers doing that type of work at Hanford. They're actually producing the plutonium. And so they built the world's first nuclear reactor there. And in fact, over the course of the Cold War, there are nine nuclear reactors that are at Hanford. It is our country's most important weapons manufacturing site, top secret from the day 120,000 people built Hanford. And about 100 of them actually knew what they were doing. Like they didn't tell the anyone who was working there what it was. This is a super top secret site. They consider themselves to be on the atomic frontier. And so they are literally messing with the fabric of reality at Hanford. So from the very beginning, like I said, they had this animal testing program, and the guy that chose to lead it was a professor from the University of Washington up in Seattle. His name was Dr. Lauren Donaldson. And his primary academic achievement before he got this job with the Department of Energy was he created a thing called the Donaldson Super Trout. So this is a trout fish that reaches sexual maturity twice as fast as a normal trout. It is eight times larger, and seven times stronger than a normal trout, it can survive in freshwater and saltwater. And it is super survivable and super strong, right, so it is literally and he did this through selective breeding and nutrition and, and all kinds of other programs. So the guy whose number one academic achievement was creating a super animal is the guy they put in charge of the animal testing laboratory at Hanford on day one. All right. So anyway, so you've got that going on down there. Hanford is this top secret site, and they had, so for Nike missile launch site. So basically, Nike missiles back during the Cold War, were surface to air missiles, and they were nuclear tipped, and the idea was back then missile technology wasn't smart enough to actually hit a bomber out of the sky. So if Soviet bombers were coming over, and they're going to bomb Hanford, they made the decision that was better to detonate a nuclear weapon over civilian populations and take out the bombers rather than have those bombers take out our nuclear production facility. All right, so that is the level of insanity that's going on with Hanford that they're willing to like basically, detonate nukes over the civilian populations in order to protect it. Every Nike launch site at Hanford, in fact, every one, every Nike launch site in the country was guarded by dogs, and they considered dogs to be 10 times more effective than a single man.
Caitlyn:I mean, same.
James:So, one dog, Sentinel is better than 10 Soldier guards, right? Because they recognize that animals are have far better very to attune senses. Yes, a much better plan. All right, so what does this have to do with cat?
Caitlyn:Holy cow.
James:So we win World War Two. plutonium from Hanford was in the first bomb that was ever detonated. In the history of the world. It was the Trinity test down in Los Alamos. And then plutonium from Hanford was also in the bomb that destroyed Nagasaki. And then, so World War Two well down because we won, but then the Cold War ramped up immediately and so plutonium production never stopped at Hanford, and all on the way there, processing plutonium, uranium turning uranium plutonium, and they create enough plutonium to create 60,000 nuclear weapons. Alright, so like, you can't eat it right now. Hanford is the number one environmental cleanup site in the country. There's no place that's more Dangerous no place, it's bigger. But it was also like the place where it was the most top secret site where the craziest research was going on, right? So you'd have all these crazy things going on. And what they so I caught wind of this animal testing program. And it started off fairly small. But it grew and grew and grew to the point where they could house 1000 large animals there at a time, right? They called it the atomic Zoo. They're like propaganda films from the 50s and 60s about the atomic zoo and all the great things nuclear power is doing for you. Right. So it's totally crazy thing that they're doing
Caitlyn:Wow. there. And they're reading cows and pigs and sheep and dogs and everything else. Well, I found some oral histories by a guy named Bill Barrett. He was the lead biologist who was running this lab. And he tells the story of how they were irradiating apex predators, and the apex predators escaped and they couldn't recapture. So they say no. So the story goes that they had brought in 30 alligators, right? So what do you do with alligators? That's probably like 29 too many.
James:And it is even one of the videos he holds up the device that they use to irradiate the alligators with, right? And so one night, six of these irradiated experimental apex predators outsmarted the scientist and escaped from their pen and got into the Columbia River. Right. So there are these-
Caitlyn:No...
James:Right? And so they're swimming around the Columbia River. And so they recognize that this is a breach that we can't keep secret because civilians are up and down the river, like so Hanford has got 90 miles of river coastline, if you can't, both the east and the west side of the river. So it's 40 mile 45 miles, 90 miles on either side. So and they know that people fish on the river and everything else, and there's like no fences on the river, like, and so like, these creatures are now free to roam the Columbia River. And so they put out press releases. So this story of irradiated alligators in the Columbia River is historically documented. It's not like James making it up where you heard a thing from a guy who to think no like it is. There are historical newspapers Bill bear talks about in three separate oral histories that these creatures escaped. And so they put our press releases, and then they hire these covert army hunting teams, and for six months from July to January, these guys are out there every day trying to hunt down these irradiated apex predators. And thank God, they caught four of them.
Caitlyn:I was gonna say, this is where you told me they caught them all.
James:No, they, there was two that they never caught. And they're like, well, it's winter, they're probably not going to survive. Good enough. And so, yeah, there are possibly a viable breeding pair of irradiated alligators swimming around in the Columbia River. And Bill bear goes on to say that, yeah, and so we would hear reports of alligators in Colombia, but I didn't believe him because I was pretty sure they weren't going to survive the winter. And so there's no way anyway, he said, Yeah, like, back in the 80s. I got a call from some fish and wildlife guy asking me if I knew anything about alligators in the Columbia River. I told him no, and hung up. And then in the interview, he's like, like, pulled over on those guys. Right? And so it's really clear that they are doing really what we would consider insane things now. So alligators aren't cats, but I'm getting there. Give me a minute, alright.
Cassie:But you can see how they can get there.
Caitlyn:I mean, yeah, but like, maybe let's stay with the alligators holy hell.
James:So even today, I mean, we get we've had at least two reports of people seeing things that they think might have been alligators in the Columbia. I've had reports of someone who was kayaking and something grabbed their kayak and I was pulling it down. And they eventually got to shore. They never figured out what it was. But something literally was strong enough to try to pull their kayak underwater.
Caitlyn:Yeah, guys, we figured out what it was.
Cassie:Well, what about all of those other cryptids like Colossal Claude who live in the Columbia River, like, is he an alligator?
James:So, you remember, I started the story by talking about this. Dr. Donaldson who created that Super Trout, right. He eventually left Hanford for the more interesting stuff that was going on in the South Pacific. So you probably heard of like the kini a toll and all the nuclear testing that went on down there while he was there, during the disastrous Castle Bravo test, which is where this nuclear thing was supposed to be like, I think it was five mega tons and it turned out to be 10 Mega tons. And it irradiated Japanese fishing boat and like it was an international disaster and it wiped out the Japanese fishing industry. And that's where the lead gins from Godzilla came from. And so he's this Donaldson is like at ground zero for all that kind of stuff. And I found a debate he was in, in the Seattle, I think was sale time sale post intelligent in June 1970. Talking about nuclear radiation and its effect on animals and stuff like that. And in that debate, he said that, you know, obviously, at larger levels, radiation is lethal to creatures, but at low doses, it makes them stronger. And he was pretty convinced about it. Like, you know, it's just like when you get inactivated with a booster shot or whatever, you get a little bit of light. And so a little bit of radiation will give you a super creature, it will kill it. And if you look at what's happened in Chernobyl, and some of the creatures that no one no humans go there, but there's a lot of wolves, and you know, elk and deer and stuff with everyone, and they're very robust and very healthy. So Hanford is the same way like Hanford, just like, here's the craziest thing. So bunnies at Hanford would hang out by the barrels of nuclear waste because it was warm. And there's a guy right now whose job it is to track nuclear, radioactive bunny poop around the Hanford reservation, because these creatures will get aerated and then their poop is radioactive. But if you think about it, there are fray creatures like cougars and wolves that are eating those rabbits. And so, if the rabbits are have radioactive poop, they have radioactive meat. And so who knows what's in the food chain of raw, right? So anyway, Cold War crazy times. In 1959, they start a program to try to train dolphins to be part of the Sentinel Program. The problem is, is that most nuclear sites are on the water, like so whether it's our subs or any nuclear facility needs to have cooling water, right and so and guarding a site like that is very difficult. If you're looking at sonar, it's really hard to tell the difference between like a, a Soviet scuba diver and a sea lion or big tuna, right? Like, it's we can't tell looking at the scope, but a dolphin knows. And so starting in 1959, they started training dolphins, and they've trained beluga whales and sea lions and all kinds of other creatures. And right now, a quarter of the US nuclear stockpile is guarded by dolphins like that's what they do. And they swim around and they look for infiltrator saboteur is people who are surveilling our sites. The dolphins have a number of different techniques. One of the ones that I read about is they have this device that they can actually clamp on to a divers leg, and it inflates the balloon that divers brought to the surface and the Navy scoops them up and then can interrogate right, so cool. So these dolphins are super smart, but they have been on the frontline of guarding our most sensitive nuclear sites for decades, right? It was only like in the late 1980s, that information about this dolphin program even came out. And so what they were doing during the Cold War was they were thinking out of the box, they felt like it was an existential threat. And there's nothing no stone unturned. I read the story about Project Headgear, which is where they tried to put these electro shock helmets on sharks to turn them into guided torpedoes who are sharks. Yeah, so basically, they're gonna load the sharks up with explosives, and then electroshock them to get remote control them to enemy boats and then blow them up. Well, after 13 years and $40 million adjusted for inflation, they determined this is a bad idea. It's never gonna work. You don't say they spent? They spent 13 years and $40 million to figure out nope, not a good idea. Right? So that's the kind of like you have to get into the mentality of the Cold War where they were doing anything, right. And in fact, at Hanford, they had a thing called the green run where they they without consent, irradiated the entire population. They took the filters off the stacks and iodine 131 was washed into the air. And then they never told the president population that they had been exposed and then they covertly check their medical records to see what kind of cancers are happening like yeah, it's a very famous thing called the Green round you can look it up it's a tragic tale. The whole people said it people in the area that have cancer from it, but anyway, point is they're doing really crazy stuff. Now, let's get back to cats. So Hanford 90 Miles river coastline, how in the hell you gonna guard it? Maybe you might try alligators, right? Like if we can create a deterrent, because really hard to patrol 90 miles of coastline. Like maybe if we had specially trained aliens, we could do it. If alligators didn't work. What is the next best riverine hunter in the world? Just so happens it's a blackjack wire. And so when you look at if you go on YouTube and look up swimming Jaguar, you'll see that jaguars are astonishingly good swimmers. They can hold their breath for 15 minutes.
Cassie:What!?
James:Yeah, they can actually eat underwater, right, they can swim over a mile across open ocean, they are phenomenally good at, they're the strongest big cat by weight. And so there's like, if a Jaguar were as big as a lion or tiger, they'd be stronger, they just have more muscle mass, super muscular creatures, right? Not only that, they have night vision that six times better than a human being. And they always instinctively drag their prey to shore. And so like a diver, a Soviet diver at the bottom of the Columbia River does, you know, you want to know like, who this guy was, what he was doing, what kind of gear he was carrying, if you'd gather any information, look at information that he gathered. So the fact that these creatures are naturally bringing their prey to shore, is an incredible bonus. Oh, and by the way, they can kill alligators with a single bite to the back of it. So you're talking about a predator that is amazing in the water. It's amazing on land, it's even amazing in the trees, like there is no creature that is better suited to a central role of guarding a sensitive nuclear site on a river. And so what may have happened? And this is my speculation, like I don't have any hard evidence to say this. But if you are looking for, like, Why in the hell are enormous black hats crawling around, click a dead County, which is like a three day walk from Hanford for a cat like that. What's a possible explanation for that? And I know you're rolling our eyes. I gotta tell you one thing. In 40 years, we've never had a hostile encounter report. No one has ever had a negative interaction with these creatures, which is fascinating.
Together:Which is good. Still terrifying, but-
James:So you've got these creatures, right. And so that gives us an explanation as to why big black hats may be in Washington State. It's very plausible that someone a cold azelis Cold War's at RIT. Jaguars are awesome at hunting in the river. Let's bring some up here. Let's train them up and see what we can do, right. And so just like the alligators, it's possible that those creatures outsmarted the scientist. And just like the alligators, they escaped into the wild land. And just like the alligators, they couldn't recapture them all. And so if you are in Hanford, and you're a big black cat, you're not going to go north, east or south deeper into the desert, you're going to head to the west, where there's mountains and cover and pray and habitat and everything else, right. And so very easy for those creatures. To in less than a week, mosey on over to Klickitat County. So that's pretty interesting right there. And then you've got this well, how do you explain their unusual size? How do you explain this monkey like face, they those are still kind of outstanding questions. So it turns out that wild jaguars are incredibly powerful and incredibly smart and capable. It's literally like trying to train cats. But so you rarely see a circus that's got a black jaguar in it, but you always see a circus, it's got a lion in it. And lions are much easier to train. And so it turns out that lions and Jaguars can successfully interbreed. There's a, like a sanctuary up in Canada things called Bear Creek. Anyway, there was a lion and a Jaguar living in a pen together up there. And this lion and Jaguar loved each other very much. And they had babies. And what came out of that was a enormous looking enormous, they call it jag lion that looked like a regular Jaguar, and then a black jag lion. And if you look it up online, this thing is frickin gigantic. Right? So it is a viable offspring, Lion and Jaguar combined. And what comes out of that union is a really gigantic cat. Right? So so we know that it's biologically possible to mix those two kinds of cats together and get a much larger cat than you would normally with a just a normal Jaguar.
Caitlyn:Perfect. Do you happen to know how many days walk for a big cat Portland is from?
James:The question is why would they like the there are many creatures that live in the Columbia River Gorge area that because of the mountains and the deserts and the river, and I think that it's sort of this biological Island, and many creatures never leave this area. And so like for instance, there have only been 20 sightings confirmed sightings of black bobcats in the history of the United States. And someone came into my store and they saw two of them down by the river. And then I was following up on a Sasquatch report up a mountain dirt road, and I saw one of them jogging up the road. That was the day that I bought cameras in my car because I couldn't take pictures of it. But so we've got creatures here. In fact, I've actually seen very rare black wild rabbits out here. And so because of our unique geology in our unique geographic My situation is very likely that creatures come here and there's no reason for them to ever leave. So it's possible. I mean, obviously,
Caitlyn:No, I'm fine with that. If you guys are happy, they're like, I want everybody to be happy. That's, that's fine.
James:Yeah. So, you know, this notion that, you know, they may have been doing other types of experiments on them. What's crazy is that you can go on YouTube, and you can find experiments like the Russians were doing experiments, and they were actually able to reanimate a severed dog head. And so like, the medical kinds of things that were going on, were like, truly insane and splicing genes together. And doing these kinds of things are really, completely within the grasp and ambition of cold warriors. They were doing the most insane things. So for me, this idea that there was a Jaguar Sentinel training program, and then something went wrong, those creatures escaped. Just like the Gators, they were unable to recapture them. And if they were anything like the Donaldson Supertrapp, their reproductive cycles are twice as fast, they're stronger, they're more survivable, they're more capable. And they would thrive. And like I said, we have had reports that people said that they had seen a big blackout with a kit in their driveway in recent times, and so, to me, like, wow, that's a very plausible explanation for a biological creature that shouldn't exist. It's not a cougar. It's something else that was developed in the atomic zoo at Hanford escaped and is now living happily in Klickitat. County. Wow. But there's even there's even a crazier story than that. Even crazier, you want to go down the rabbit hole even further. But wait, there's more. So it turns out that there is one creature in the fossil record that matches the description of the Klickitat ape cat, and is a thing called the Panthera a Trox, the American lion. And so during the Ice Age, this thing was all over Washington States. And it is an 880 pound gigantic lion like cat, right. And so it is biologically the same size as the reports, we have the Klickitat ape cat. And there are people that believe that as crazy as experiments on bringing Jaguars ions together and mutating them with radiation, everything sound there are people that say that the reason why Hanford is where it is, is because just like I said in the introduction, the Columbia River Gorge, in this whole eastern Washington is a spiritually sensitive place to begin with here, the veil is thin, more thin than anywhere else. And so the very first UFO sightings in the United States that Kenneth Arnold sightings and 1947 June, that happened, he was flying over Mount Rainier. And he spotted these craft and the craft flew to Mount Adams. And, and so like it's happening, like right here in Washington State, and you can literally, if you're on top of Mount Adams, I climbed it back in the 90s. But you can see Hanford from the top of Mount Adams, right. And so the kinds of experiments that they were doing, they're like, you can't even like whatever you imagine, it's crazier than that. And the notion that they may have, you know, started like, if you think about it, the energy of the Columbia River actually created the nuclear age, they borrowed the power of the river to generate electricity, which would then be used to smelt the plutonium to create the nuclear. So it's like not even like a metaphor, like literally, energy of the river was converted and turned into the nuclear age 100% happening right there. And so Hanford was the place where, like, the craziest Department of Energy studies are going on, they're freaking irradiating alligators, right. Like, they were doing stuff there that we can't even imagine. And as like, well, like, how crazy was it like, the notion that you could create a portal that goes back in time to the Ice Age and scoops out some kind of giant cat like, me, that's all right. But then, of course, the night down the rabbit hole, I go in the research. So back when Stranger Things first came out, there was this young, social media manager at the Department of Energy, and he put out a post, like right at when it came out, and it's like, oh, this is a great show. It's always exciting to see the Department of Energy in fiction. And then he said in this post, but guess what? The Department of Energy does not explore a parallel universe. Sorry that they got wrong. Then this this guy's name was Paul Esther like talk about like the worst day at work ever because then this the secretary of energy like so this is like a president appointed cabinet level position like his boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss. Right? So many balances, dude. In fact, we do invest in research in parallel universe just don't tell you about it. And the reason why like this all came out was because like the fans of Stranger Things like, like he had to do this retraction. And for this post, he did, and so the fan Strange things did it freedom Information Act request, and they get the whole set of, you know, email chain back and forth that this poor guy is getting like the department. He eventually gets written an email by a woman named Rachel card. She is a, she works for the American Association for the Advancement of Science as a congressional science fellow. She's got like credentials out the ying yang. She's a high energy particle physicist. She works with Senator Feinstein, I think anyway, she says, No, actually, I can guarantee you that the Department of Energy does fund studies in pocket universes, hidden dimensions, parallel universes, all these kinds of things. So that part of Stranger Things the show got right. So let's review. Stranger Things is a show about a department Energy Lab, that is opening gateways to parallel universes, creatures come out of those parallel universes and terrorized local countryside. And Dr. Rachel Carr is saying, Yeah, that show Stranger Things got that part right.
Caitlyn:I have to go. I'm not sure where!
Cassie:You're not safe anywhere!
James:So anyway, so like, it could be something even crazier than just mundane radioactive experiments and apex predators. Like it could be like something like, it's literally has escaped out of a pocket dimension. Like, that's the only way I can make sense of the fact that there are petroglyphs here that are 1000s of years old, that are also showing creatures that look like Panthers. And to me, like, the most fascinating part of it all, is that they had, well, if this is anything that I said was true, they were developing these black panther creatures to basically be protectors of the nuclear side. And just like every culture around the world, is describing Black Panther humanoids as a race of supernatural protectors. And here we are, they're trying to pull these creatures or do whatever they do with them. To be protectors of the site, they escaped. And I like to think that they're actually protecting the people of the gorge. But that's just my wishful thinking. But there's been there's there's been no hostile encounters. And you'd think like, man, a creature that big that and obviously smart, and it's easier to spot spot a black creature in the wild than it is despite, like a tan creature, a creature. So that's the story of the Klickitat Ape Cat, and it's still unfolding, and we're still gathering information. And we get reports even today, like people have orchards as a Yeah, we saw that thing in our orchard a couple nights ago, it's get the crap out of us.
Cassie:It's scary, but cool.
James:The reason why I talked about it is, it's just so interesting. And I love, like sharing like, what a fun, magical and enchanted place the gorgeous and like, I just get so excited when someone comes in the door, and there's a new mystery. And it's in this incredibly gorgeous spiritually charged place. And you know, even if you never see an Ape Cat or a Sasquatch or a UFO out here, like you're going to have a magical experience in the gorge. And so I'm, you know, going on all these interviews and things like that, to invite people to come down here and check it out for yourself because it is a total blast. Like the things that are out here to explore and investigate are like 10 out of 10 amazingly cool. Well, that's some of the stuff that we're working on here at Margie's outdoor store in Bingen, Washington.
Cassie:You can't get that on Amazon!
James:No, no. But we didn't even cover like some of the crazy ghost stories.
Cassie:We'll have you back on!
James:Well, I would love to come back on.
Cassie:So it's actually funny though. You mentioned Stranger Things because the deck I brought with me today the Tarot deck is Stranger Things.
James:Oh my gosh!
Cassie:So if you would like me to pull a card for you real quick?
James:I would love for you to pull a card! All right, go for it.
Cassie:[Magic wand chimes] So this is my Stranger Things deck. I don't think we have used it yet. If we have it was only like one time. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure. Here we go. I'm gonna pull a card. Just kind of about the area, whatever we talked about.
James:Okay. I love it.
Caitlyn:I'm nervous.
Cassie:And I got the High Priestess and I drew her in reverse.
James:Look at that, Eleven.
Cassie:Yep. And on the card is Eleven doing her Eleven Magic.
James:What's our interpretation here?
Cassie:And we have a books because we're not we don't have them all memorized or anything. So we've read from a book and kind of Yeah.
Caitlyn:Memorization.
James:That's the way my oracling usually goes as well. Um, yeah. Get the guide book.
Caitlyn:[Gasp] Okay.
Cassie:She does that every time. Read it!
Caitlyn:The High Priestess?
Cassie:The High Priestess. In reverse.
Caitlyn:All right. Keywords are intuition, emotions, feminine power, imagination, spirituality and the inner life. This beautiful and enigmatic card symbolizes feminine spiritual power, or the Goddess from whom all life comes and to whom it all returns.
Cassie:Interesting, we've kind of talked about that.
James:Well, I have to tell you, in all those cultures around the world, that Black Panther is almost universally associated with feminine power.
Cassie:I love that.
Caitlyn:Okay, so look at this. There's a black pillar and a white pillar.
Cassie:Oh, yeah. On the original illustration for the cards. There is a black pillar and a white pillar, it kind of reminds me of your map behind you to where there's like two sides.
James:Oh yeah, the transition point, yeah.
Cassie:Oh, boy, that also could be like there's multiple sides of trying to figure this thing out to.
James:Yeah, it's a genuine mystery, I tell you.
Caitlyn:Okay. Some deck show her as a serene female figure, seated with a book or scroll on her lap to indicate wisdom. Other decks depict her gazing into the distance at something yet to be revealed. Okay. She's sometimes positioned between two pillars, one black, one white, which represent the dual nature of existence, good and evil, light and dark. Truth and deception, positive and negative. And we have an extra excerpt and then I'll read the reverse interpretation. Okay. It says, We all come from the Goddess. And to her we shall return like a drop of rain flowing to the ocean.
Cassie:Oh, snap. Like the rivers flow to the ocean?
Caitlyn:Yeah, I guess like if you want to read it that way.
Cassie:This is so cool.
Caitlyn:Freaky. Okay, the High Priestess reverse says your unrealized potential has yet to be discovered. Your secret, authentic self is locked away in the basement.
Cassie:Or in another dimension?
Caitlyn:Perhaps you're hesitant to look too deeply into yourself. Or you may be hiding your true self from others because you fear their judgment or disapproval.
Cassie:Oh, that's like all the people that tell stories?
Caitlyn:Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah. In some cases, she means you're too involved in your inner world and need to get outside of yourself. Or maybe just like outside at all?
Cassie:Well, yeah, because if you're stuck on Amazon, you're not outside exploring the beautiful Gorge!
James:Get out there and do it!
Caitlyn:That's true. In a reading about money. The High Priestess reverse can mean you're focused on money in the material world at the expense of your inner life. Like I feel like it's probably just this this section is just for the owner of Amazon.
Cassie:Yeah. Oh, or it could be about the experimenty type things like they weren't concerned about human life they were concerned about
James:Well, well, yeah. What's interesting to me, I mean, my interpretation there is that there's the physical manifestation of this creature, which is sensational and interesting and fascinating. But to me, it's the spiritual aspect of what its appearance means, you know, like, there, it's a as above, so below. And so it's easy to get caught up in the, you know, the tracks and the physical evidence, you know, and is there this creature gonna attack somebody? That's like the interaction in the physical world. But to me, the notion that this protector spirit is showing up here, and in this place, that's a far more interesting thing to explore, you know, the, the notion of what is the spiritual content, what is the non physical existence mean for this creature? That's what that's what that's telling me when I hear it.
Cassie:You also mentioned earlier that it's kind of a transit Shanell Is that how you worded it? It's yeah, it kind of transition. Yeah. And then in the car cheese, you know, in between two things, she's kind of in the middle of a transitional point. Oh!
Caitlyn:But the interpretation related to your job, okay? Just let me know. If the reading is about your job, this card may mean your insecurities are holding you back. Or it may recommend retreating from the busyness of everyday life, spending more time meditating, or in spiritual practice. In some cases, it warns of treachery, secrets, or intrigue in your workplace.
Cassie:Intrigue.
Caitlyn:Something hidden, may soon come to light.
Cassie:Oh, no, I like that. Okay. Yeah, I think the end of that was, yeah, kind of spot on there.
James:Yeah. Well, you know, that's part of the reason why I'm doing these interviews is because I want more people to help me figure this out. You know, what was cool is I did an interview just a few days ago, and a woman drove three hours and brought me a book about Hanford that she had found in her uncle's garage. And so like, to me getting the word out and helping more people become aware of the cadet ape kid and the mysteries that we're looking at. Like, I love that people are joining in the fun, and they are helping to be a part of solving the mysteries. And so the idea that there's more to be revealed. Like, that's my, like, why am I doing this work today? I'm doing this work today, because I'm looking for that. For more information to come forward, and for other people to participate, and have as much fun with these mysteries as I am.
Cassie:Well, sounds like the card says it's common. She don't like I'll take it. I'll take it. Oh, that was so cool. I love to that.
James:Well, I would, of course, invite anyone to come out to the Columbia River Gorge. Of course, we'd love to see in the store and Bingen Washington. Right across the bridge from Hood River. Most people know where Hood River is. And there's a bridge between Washington and Oregon there. And we are on the North Shore. But come in, like the store is a is a huge delight. Of course, I talk about all the cool paranormal stuff. But it is a great joy in my life to scour merchants from around the world and bring the most unusual and fun things into the store. And so pretty much everyone who comes into this is their favorite store they've ever been in. That's a great sense of joy and pride for me. And so please come and visit, pick up an arcane adventure map if you want to get out there and see for yourself what's going on. But more than anything, come come to this place that is magical and amazing and filled with mystery and joy, and investigate for yourself. And even if you don't see a UFO or an ape cat or a Sasquatch, I guarantee you're going to have an enchanting and magical experience. Because there is no place like it in the world.
Cassie:That is true. And if you do see something, you know, file report, but also email us because we want to know about it.
James:Yeah, in fact, I should probably mention that. So we have marches, outdoor store.com. And you can file a report online. So if you do have an unusual experience where you've had one in the past, please file a report. You know, just in in March, we got a a UFO picture over under wood Mountain, which is just a few miles from the store. And so lots of cool stuff, but come check it out. And we've got information about some local cryptids and information about the click of that aid kit in there. And you get a sense of who we are and what we're all about. So margiesoutdoorstore.com. Check it out.
Cassie:If you will loved listening to that whole interview and you would like to watch it with your eyeballs. Become a member of our Patreon where the video of the entire interview is posted. And that is ad free. That is an ad free video. That is correct. So if you don't like ads, go to the Patreon where you get ad free episodes every single time.
Caitlyn:Patreon for the newly initiated is a monthly subscription with a range of price points and benefits. We call them tiers. They all have fun names. Every member of our Patreon gets a personalized welcome card when they join. We're also going to start doing shout outs in upcoming episodes, which is new.
Cassie:And it is upcoming very very soon. I know we we've said it a couple of times but
Caitlyn:We've said it like twice so coming but like it's actually coming. It's coming coming. You also get access to exclusive bonus episodes and lots of other goodies. We actually just did a bonus episode for the main feed that was previously an episode that we did as a live stream for the Patreon so we re recorded it to make it sound financing. And so that Cassie could talk because ya know.
Cassie:When we do lives, we get a time limit. So yeah, it's fine. It's fine. If you cannot support us with cold hard cash, no worries because the easiest ways to support are absolutely free.
Caitlyn:Tell everyone and anyone, literally everyone and anyone you that you come into contact with about us.
Cassie:If you bump into someone on the road, tell them about us.
Caitlyn:Do it. Also, leave a five star review on any platform you can. Super awesome if you can do Apple, and then that other person that you ran into that you told about us, tell them to do it as well.
Cassie:If you have any true crime paranormal or witchy stories to submit for our listener appreciation episodes, called Creepy People Chronicles which sounds badass to me. I don't know about you guys. I think so. Please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com or you can use our handy dandy little Google contact link in the episode description.
Caitlyn:You're always welcome to remain anonymous if you write in with a story. And of course they do not have to be from the Pacific Northwest if you want to share a story. We love hearing stories from all over the place.
Cassie:Right if you've been to a Eiffel Tower and it's haunted, let us know.
Caitlyn:Um, she haunted that I know but She's scary.
Cassie:Follow us on all of the socials if you don't want to miss out on photos of our tarot cards are beautiful altar setups and a lot of backstage shenanigans.
Caitlyn:Oh yeah. And then we used to say this thing about, check us out because our meme game is hot!
Cassie:So hot right now.
Caitlyn:So hot right now.
Cassie:You can find links to all over social media or website and anything else you could possibly be looking for. Right here in the description of this very episode. And every other episode.
Caitlyn:It's true, because we have a link tree.
Cassie:So no excuses!
Caitlyn:Correct.
Cassie:Find us stalk us.
Caitlyn:Our website also kind of acts like a link tree because it has links to all the other things. So basically, if you can't find us on one of the things, you're not trying very hard.
Cassie:No, we make it really really easy for you.
Caitlyn:It's true.
Together:Have a creepy ass day! [Music that invokes a true crime, paranormal, & witchy vibe]
Caitlyn:All right, well, Stevenson used to be one of my favorite places to visit. I don't know about now.
Cassie:[Charmingly witchy music fades in] If you're a frequent PNW Haunts & Homicides listener, you probably already know where Birdie ambassadors.
Caitlyn:We wanted to take a quick moment to tell you a little bit more about this awesome product.
Cassie:Birdie is the modern personal safety alarm made for women by women.
Caitlyn:In a situation where you feel threatened or unsafe. You can simply activate Birdie's LOUD siren and flashing light to create a diversion.
Cassie:Birdie is perfect to carry any time because the device is lightweight and comes in a variety of colors.
Caitlyn:So important. Use our ambassador link and coupon code PNWHAUNTSANDHOMICIDES to receive 10% off your purchase. Like our social media handles the coupon code is all spelled out no special characters.
Cassie:You can find the link and promo code in our show notes or PNW Haunts & Homicides link tree.
Together:Have a safe ass day!
Here are some great episodes to start with. Or, check out episodes by topic.
