Transcript
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So, the boat was still at their home when they showed up at the agreed upon meeting place
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near Oxbow Park, which meet in public, but how are you going to go and meet with this
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person to talk to them about selling you a boat, but you don't have the boat?
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Doesn't that seem odd?
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I don't know.
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I'm just saying, I have sold exactly zero boats, but I would think that like you got
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a half of a boat when you meet the guy about the boat.
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Probably.
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I don't know.
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Hi, Cassie.
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Hi, Caitlyn.
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Hi, creepy people.
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Hello!
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Hello!
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We're here.
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We did it.
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We got the microphones and the cameras to work all at the same time, but at what cost?
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Sanity and a few hours.
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Yeah, it's fine.
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It's fine.
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Actually, this is one of our shorter sessions trying to get everything to work.
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Think about it.
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Yeah, I guess.
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It is.
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It is, for sure, is.
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I'm knocking on all the way with any huzzle.
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Should I just jump right into this or should we finish our intro?
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Like how you feel?
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Oh, yeah, let's intro it.
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Okay.
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If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where
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we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.
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And we do this little thing at the end of our show where we do some tarot.
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That kind of rhymes.
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The end of our show.
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We do some tarot.
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I like it.
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And that just gives us a little deeper insight into our topic.
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Yeah.
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That's the deal.
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All right.
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And it's fun.
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Yeah.
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We have fun with it.
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So that's why we do it.
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So here we go.
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Give me a little fun in our lives.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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All right.
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Well, speaking of fun.
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Yeah, Caitlin, give us some fun.
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Let's go.
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Oh, boy.
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Okay.
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We have wine here.
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Oh, go ahead and grab those glasses now.
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That'll help my splitting my grain.
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Yeah.
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No, not to get today too.
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Oh, yeah.
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That's what you get for forgetting your pills and then being in the sun for hours and working
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all day.
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I mean, that kind of sounds like you had it coming.
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Yeah.
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I did it to myself, you know.
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Oh.
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I hate that, though.
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It's okay.
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I'm here to listen to some sad stuff.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Well, more ridiculousness.
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Okay.
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I'm ready.
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You think so.
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On February 6, 2009, two men, Gerald Ford and James Pogue were passing by the Gordon Creek
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Bridge on their way into town.
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Whatever their plans had been that day, they were abruptly derailed as they'd spotted a
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badly injured woman.
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No, look at that.
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She's like, I don't know how to react yet.
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I just want to stumble upon a badly injured woman.
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I, you know, I think probably nobody does.
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Yeah.
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It's not not a great situation for anyone.
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While one man stayed with her attempting to keep her calm, the other Gerald walked away
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toward an area that he thought he might kind of be able to get better cell service to
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some emergency assistance.
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So just picture like those old Verizon commercials.
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Can you hear me now?
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Can you hear me now?
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Can you hear me now?
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You hold up your phone?
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Yeah.
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Your flip phone?
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Yeah.
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Oh, God, flip phone.
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Yes.
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I don't know about you, but I had a razor and then I also had several side kicks.
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I had a razor.
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Yeah.
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So cool.
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Hazelyn Stombs was in rough shape.
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Not only was she seriously injured, but heartbreakingly, her nails were ragged from trying
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to claw her way up the side of the hill from the embankment where the two men had found
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her.
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Geez.
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She was in dire pain, but didn't let that distract her from ensuring that emergency responders
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understood her husband still needed help as well.
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Oh no.
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So he's like down where she climbed out of or possibly?
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Jerry, her husband, was born and raised in Gresham, Oregon, where the pair met when he was
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19 years old in 1969.
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Oh.
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No, I was like, I'm going to pause because I said 69.
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Oh.
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I was just like, oh, 19.
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Yeah.
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I didn't even notice the 69.
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That's how you know my ad hurts.
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Yeah.
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Oh.
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There's quickly became a match made in heaven.
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However, they would be separated by war as Jerry was called to serve in the Vietnam War.
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Thousands of miles and seemingly a world away.
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Oh.
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Yeah.
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I bet they wrote each other letters.
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My next sentence.
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However, they kept in touch while he was away writing frequent letters that clearly kept
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the romance alive.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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What's the one to write me letters?
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I know.
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God.
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And if they could put like a really fancy ass wax seal on it?
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Yeah.
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Are you going to write me letters, Caitlin?
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Well, I mean, I bottled the stuff to do the wax seals.
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So I wish I write letters to her Patreon.
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That would be fine.
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Like like an old school like note.
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Ooh.
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Like, hey, how's your day going?
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And like everything has an exclamation point at the end.
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Oh, of course.
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And of course, the wax seal.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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Just to be clear, when Jerry returned from Vietnam, he and Lynn were married.
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Of course.
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Of course.
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You can't not marry the man after you wrote you letters.
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I know.
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That is basically, I think it's probably the law.
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Yeah.
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Not a lawyer, but--
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where Jerry was a man known for his boldness and fierce
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self-reliance, Lynn was an exceedingly kind woman who knew
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how to break through his tough exterior.
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In 1973, their first son, Jason, was born,
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followed in 1976 by their son Adam.
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She took to motherhood and the close-knit family
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seemed to flourish.
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They lived out in the country on several acres,
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giving them abundant opportunities for outdoor recreation.
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Jerry was a super outdoorsy outdoorsman type.
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Nice.
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Like lumberjockey.
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Yeah, a little bit.
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Nice.
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It also provided economic opportunity,
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the pair resided near the 44,500 block of East Haynes Road,
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where they ran their roughly 14-acre Christmas tree farm.
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Aww.
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That's so cute.
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That's so cute.
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I love Christmas tree farms.
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Like how every single Hallmark movie starts.
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Seriously.
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Do you want to know a secret about me?
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What?
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My grandparents used to have a Christmas tree farm.
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So I would like to work there when I was little.
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And I would like poor hot chocolate.
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And then I would give people like tours to all the little animals.
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A door of a wall.
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I know.
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I'm so cute.
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Yeah, that's so awesome.
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Just like this story, still for all the joy they experienced
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together, there are always milestones
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that bring grief in this life.
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As was the case when, in 1991, Lynn's father died.
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However, there was a little bit of a silver lining
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for the couple as her father's passing
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left her with a nice inheritance of about $1.7 million.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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Like I want to say nice, but like the circumstance,
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this is obviously suck.
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Not ideal how you came--
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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How you got the money isn't probably
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how you would have preferred, but here we go.
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This allowed the couple to invest in local real estate
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and breathe a sigh of relief.
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It appeared that if they had faced any financial struggles
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in the earlier days of their marriage,
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their finances wouldn't no longer be cause for concern.
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Good.
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Though things were a bit easier on the financial front,
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Jerry remained incredibly principled about their finances.
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This is something that a lot of people commented on
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in one of the sort of like short form documentary pieces
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that I watched about this.
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He refused to have debt of any kind.
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Well, like bought his cars and cash, anything
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that they wanted, like they had to save and pay for it and cash.
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I mean, smart.
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Yeah.
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In any case, after the cash infusion from Lins and Heritins,
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there could hardly be any need to take on debt.
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This is what I mean.
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If you've got that much cash, like, yeah, come on.
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In 2004, the frugal couple had settled into an easy going life
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as they became grandparents.
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Oh, I know.
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Now, a comfortable retirement was the only item left
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to be ticked off the list at this stage in their lives.
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I know.
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However, the events of February 6, 2009
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brought any plans for their upcoming golden years
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to a screeching halt.
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Lynn was taken to the Legacy Emanuel Hospital and Health
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Center for Treatment of the Injuries.
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She had sustained from a roughly 19-footfall.
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She would go on to explain that she and her husband
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had been meeting a prospective buyer of their boat.
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A man had responded to their ad on Craigslist
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for the $40,000 boat.
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Is that a lot for a boat?
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I mean, probably not.
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But I mean, anybody who's got 40 grand
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throw around on a boat.
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Right.
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I'm on a boat.
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I mean, that's just a lot of money to spend on anything.
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Maybe they have a million dollars, too.
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Who knows?
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Yeah.
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I'm just saying, they doing all right.
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That's a pretty nice boat.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I wouldn't spend $40 on a boat
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because I would just get sick all over it.
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Oh, yeah.
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You can't do-- you get like real motions, like real seasick, huh?
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Yeah, I do.
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No cruises and got hard news in my future.
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Oh my gosh.
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OK.
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I didn't decide to do a destination cruise wedding.
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Yeah.
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I wouldn't have been there.
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You're like, I'm going to have to regretfully decline.
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Yeah.
275
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,000
When the couple had agreed to meet in person
276
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,840
to discuss the potential sale, Lynn
277
00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,360
said that Jerry had opted to meet this person nearby,
278
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,280
rather than having an unfamiliar individual head
279
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,480
straight for the home that he shared with his wife.
280
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:07,680
Most people do that.
281
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:08,180
Yeah.
282
00:12:08,180 --> 00:12:09,620
It's a solid plan, certainly.
283
00:12:09,620 --> 00:12:11,580
It's just like a good rule of thumb
284
00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:16,140
to conduct this sort of business in public places.
285
00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:17,780
Yeah, but usually like a public place,
286
00:12:17,780 --> 00:12:20,260
like a parking lot of like a target or some shit.
287
00:12:20,260 --> 00:12:21,060
Yeah.
288
00:12:21,060 --> 00:12:21,860
Exactly.
289
00:12:21,860 --> 00:12:25,340
And where they live, it's a pretty rural area.
290
00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:27,100
I don't know how far they would have had to drive
291
00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:27,980
to get to a target.
292
00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:28,460
That's true.
293
00:12:28,460 --> 00:12:29,460
That's true.
294
00:12:29,460 --> 00:12:31,300
But yeah.
295
00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:33,380
But they were doing like the best that they could.
296
00:12:33,380 --> 00:12:35,620
They're coming to get us.
297
00:12:35,620 --> 00:12:36,980
That's like a fire truck, yeah?
298
00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:39,260
We had like four drive by the other night.
299
00:12:39,260 --> 00:12:41,940
I have no idea what happened.
300
00:12:41,940 --> 00:12:43,180
A fire.
301
00:12:43,180 --> 00:12:44,780
I don't think so.
302
00:12:44,780 --> 00:12:46,340
Fire's happened every day, Caitlin.
303
00:12:46,340 --> 00:12:47,780
They keep some in business.
304
00:12:47,780 --> 00:12:50,660
We talked about this.
305
00:12:50,660 --> 00:12:51,500
I mean, that's true.
306
00:12:51,500 --> 00:12:55,500
There was another like in a very short span,
307
00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:57,260
it was like five or six vehicles.
308
00:12:57,260 --> 00:12:57,780
Yeah.
309
00:12:57,780 --> 00:13:00,500
They had like a EMS vehicle.
310
00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:01,660
Yeah, it was not good.
311
00:13:01,660 --> 00:13:03,940
I hope everyone's okay.
312
00:13:03,940 --> 00:13:05,540
I don't know.
313
00:13:05,540 --> 00:13:07,700
Because I have no idea where they were headed.
314
00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:09,340
Miracles happen.
315
00:13:09,340 --> 00:13:10,500
Yeah.
316
00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:13,260
Like in the story you're about to tell us, right?
317
00:13:13,260 --> 00:13:15,180
Yep.
318
00:13:15,180 --> 00:13:18,500
So the boat was still at their home when they showed up
319
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:22,580
at the agreed upon meeting place near Oxbow Park,
320
00:13:22,580 --> 00:13:24,340
which meet in public.
321
00:13:24,340 --> 00:13:27,820
But how are you going to go and meet with this person
322
00:13:27,820 --> 00:13:30,860
to talk to them about selling you a boat?
323
00:13:30,860 --> 00:13:33,900
But you don't have the boat?
324
00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:35,340
Doesn't that seem odd?
325
00:13:35,340 --> 00:13:38,460
Maybe you're showing them pictures?
326
00:13:38,460 --> 00:13:42,380
I guess, but that seems like what the Craigslist ad is for.
327
00:13:42,380 --> 00:13:43,620
Yeah.
328
00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:46,420
Yeah, because you think they'd want to see the boat, right?
329
00:13:46,420 --> 00:13:47,420
Right?
330
00:13:47,420 --> 00:13:49,260
And where they're planning maybe to purchase it that day,
331
00:13:49,260 --> 00:13:50,860
they would want to take it.
332
00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:52,220
I mean, possibly.
333
00:13:52,220 --> 00:13:53,060
Yeah.
334
00:13:53,060 --> 00:13:54,700
So I don't know if they were like, okay, well,
335
00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:57,860
if you're really interested, we'll take you back
336
00:13:57,860 --> 00:13:58,700
to the house.
337
00:13:58,700 --> 00:13:59,540
You can see it.
338
00:13:59,540 --> 00:14:01,300
We'll get the deal done.
339
00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:03,020
Maybe they couldn't like tow the boat.
340
00:14:03,020 --> 00:14:06,140
So they wanted to like meet this person, and then they would
341
00:14:06,140 --> 00:14:08,540
come back to the house and tow it away or something.
342
00:14:08,540 --> 00:14:12,300
They definitely had towing capacity of some sort,
343
00:14:12,300 --> 00:14:15,300
because you had-- I mean, if you own a boat, you have to.
344
00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:18,220
And it was Jerry's truck that they took out
345
00:14:18,220 --> 00:14:20,220
to meet with this guy.
346
00:14:20,220 --> 00:14:20,700
I don't know.
347
00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:24,660
I'm just saying, I have sold exactly zero boats,
348
00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:28,020
but I would think that like, you got to have the boat
349
00:14:28,020 --> 00:14:29,740
when you meet the guy about the boat.
350
00:14:29,740 --> 00:14:31,620
Yeah.
351
00:14:31,620 --> 00:14:32,860
Probably.
352
00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:34,340
I don't know.
353
00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:37,580
The men had intended to fish in the sandy river
354
00:14:37,580 --> 00:14:40,860
and discuss the potential sail.
355
00:14:40,860 --> 00:14:44,660
Again, how you're going to do that without the boat?
356
00:14:44,660 --> 00:14:45,620
From the shore?
357
00:14:45,620 --> 00:14:46,820
Fishing from the shore?
358
00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:48,220
Sure, fishing.
359
00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:51,540
But why are you doing that if you're specifically meeting
360
00:14:51,540 --> 00:14:54,740
somebody to talk about buying their fishing boat?
361
00:14:54,740 --> 00:14:55,260
I don't know.
362
00:14:55,260 --> 00:14:57,460
Well, you didn't mention it was a fishing boat.
363
00:14:57,460 --> 00:14:58,460
Yeah.
364
00:14:58,460 --> 00:15:00,180
I thought speedboat.
365
00:15:00,180 --> 00:15:00,500
No.
366
00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:01,780
I can't fish on a speed boat.
367
00:15:01,780 --> 00:15:02,780
I'm feeling a speed boat.
368
00:15:02,780 --> 00:15:04,700
It was like a fishing boat.
369
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:09,060
Because you know, I'm a pro fisherman and you can't fish
370
00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:10,300
from a speeding boat.
371
00:15:10,300 --> 00:15:11,900
Yeah, that's true.
372
00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:12,900
A speeding boat.
373
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:15,700
I'm not eating boat.
374
00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:16,700
God.
375
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:19,300
Clearly, I'm no expert.
376
00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:22,060
I know a lot about boats.
377
00:15:22,060 --> 00:15:28,100
Only what I had to read for this story, but the speed boats.
378
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:29,100
Yeah.
379
00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:33,220
When I turned out unbeknownst to either Lynn or her husband,
380
00:15:33,220 --> 00:15:38,300
a second man had shown up with the potential buyer.
381
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:42,860
Jerry exited their vehicle heading in the direction of a small
382
00:15:42,860 --> 00:15:46,020
trail near the water's edge.
383
00:15:46,020 --> 00:15:49,820
Meanwhile, Lynn waited in their truck.
384
00:15:49,820 --> 00:15:53,540
When she exited the vehicle, some minutes later, presumably
385
00:15:53,540 --> 00:15:57,380
wondering what was taking Jerry so long, she quickly realized
386
00:15:57,380 --> 00:16:00,380
she hadn't been alone.
387
00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:04,980
Jerry warned her to run and Lynn took off, but noticed the man
388
00:16:04,980 --> 00:16:08,500
who had been watching her as she'd waited in their vehicle
389
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:12,340
had brandished a gun and was now chasing her.
390
00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:16,180
Oh, that, no, that's not good.
391
00:16:16,180 --> 00:16:17,180
No.
392
00:16:17,180 --> 00:16:18,180
I have questions.
393
00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:19,180
OK.
394
00:16:19,180 --> 00:16:22,500
You said they were planning to fish and talk, and she was
395
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:24,900
planning to just sit in the car the whole time?
396
00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:27,260
I thought that was weird, too, right?
397
00:16:27,260 --> 00:16:28,460
I mean, I guess--
398
00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:31,580
Is it fishing kind of a whole day activity?
399
00:16:31,580 --> 00:16:33,140
Right, sorta.
400
00:16:33,140 --> 00:16:34,300
I would think so.
401
00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:36,180
But I guess I wouldn't want to fish either,
402
00:16:36,180 --> 00:16:38,220
so maybe I'd want to sit in the car and read a book.
403
00:16:38,220 --> 00:16:38,700
I don't know.
404
00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:39,220
Yes.
405
00:16:39,220 --> 00:16:41,100
But why did she even need to go?
406
00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:42,020
Yeah.
407
00:16:42,020 --> 00:16:43,820
Because they don't have the boat, so it's not
408
00:16:43,820 --> 00:16:45,740
like he needed help with the boat.
409
00:16:45,740 --> 00:16:49,580
Anyways, I think I'm really glad to see that we're
410
00:16:49,580 --> 00:16:54,260
picking up on some of the same details that just go like,
411
00:16:54,260 --> 00:16:55,580
Huh?
412
00:16:55,580 --> 00:16:56,660
Huh.
413
00:16:56,660 --> 00:16:57,160
OK.
414
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:57,660
I'm confused.
415
00:16:57,660 --> 00:16:58,660
I don't know.
416
00:16:58,660 --> 00:17:02,180
Maybe there's something about boats that I just don't know.
417
00:17:02,180 --> 00:17:03,580
Boat experts out there.
418
00:17:03,580 --> 00:17:04,340
Yeah.
419
00:17:04,340 --> 00:17:05,340
Let us know.
420
00:17:05,340 --> 00:17:07,220
You email us that.
421
00:17:07,220 --> 00:17:09,380
You know, you'll have to know how much I'd say it's a Gmail.com.
422
00:17:09,380 --> 00:17:10,340
Yeah.
423
00:17:10,340 --> 00:17:12,540
Do you have a boat and ghost in story?
424
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:13,060
Ooh.
425
00:17:13,060 --> 00:17:14,340
Or a true crimey story?
426
00:17:14,340 --> 00:17:15,100
Hopefully not.
427
00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:15,620
But--
428
00:17:15,620 --> 00:17:17,860
Yeah, I mean, well, you know, boating.
429
00:17:17,860 --> 00:17:20,020
You could get into all kinds of shenanigans.
430
00:17:20,020 --> 00:17:21,500
Any witchy boaters out there?
431
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:23,460
Witchy boaters.
432
00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:25,380
You know, if there was a witchy-ass boat,
433
00:17:25,380 --> 00:17:26,540
I might go on it.
434
00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:27,540
Yeah.
435
00:17:27,540 --> 00:17:29,540
And risk the sea sickness.
436
00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:30,540
Yeah.
437
00:17:30,540 --> 00:17:31,540
You're totally--
438
00:17:31,540 --> 00:17:33,860
Because there's probably some like spells and charms on it to, you know--
439
00:17:33,860 --> 00:17:34,860
Totally.
440
00:17:34,860 --> 00:17:36,060
Like get rid of sea sickness anyway.
441
00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:37,060
Yeah.
442
00:17:37,060 --> 00:17:39,060
There's got to be a charm to that.
443
00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:40,060
Yeah.
444
00:17:40,060 --> 00:17:41,060
Absolutely.
445
00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:42,060
OK.
446
00:17:42,060 --> 00:17:43,060
OK.
447
00:17:43,060 --> 00:17:44,060
I'm glad we have this.
448
00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:45,060
A chance to have this chance.
449
00:17:45,060 --> 00:17:46,060
Yeah.
450
00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:47,060
Yeah.
451
00:17:47,060 --> 00:17:48,060
Yeah.
452
00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:49,060
Yeah.
453
00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:50,060
It didn't take long for him to catch up to her.
454
00:17:50,060 --> 00:17:55,580
Snarling her backpack in his clutches, he sent her tumbling over the side of the Gordon
455
00:17:55,580 --> 00:17:56,580
Creek Bridge.
456
00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:57,580
Jesus.
457
00:17:57,580 --> 00:18:04,900
While Lin's injuries from the bizarre attack were being treated in the hospital, some sources
458
00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:09,260
refer to it as a fractured pelvis or broken hip.
459
00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:10,260
No.
460
00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:11,260
Yeah.
461
00:18:11,260 --> 00:18:14,500
And a broken rib.
462
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:18,700
Police attempted to piece together what had happened to Jerry in the interim and why
463
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:23,380
someone might perpetrate such a brutal attack on the couple.
464
00:18:23,380 --> 00:18:27,180
Because the whole thing is just very strange.
465
00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:28,180
Like, OK, fine.
466
00:18:28,180 --> 00:18:29,980
You don't have to buy the boat.
467
00:18:29,980 --> 00:18:32,220
Like, you don't got to beat us up.
468
00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:33,220
Yeah.
469
00:18:33,220 --> 00:18:38,140
I mean, unless it's like a crazy serial killer who just like goes on Craigslist trying to buy
470
00:18:38,140 --> 00:18:40,220
boats and then killing people, I don't know.
471
00:18:40,220 --> 00:18:41,220
Yeah.
472
00:18:41,220 --> 00:18:46,300
There was kind of a little part of me that said like, mm, I mean, wouldn't be the first time
473
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:47,820
we'd heard that, right?
474
00:18:47,820 --> 00:18:48,820
Yeah.
475
00:18:48,820 --> 00:18:50,300
That's why you meet in a public place.
476
00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:51,300
Yes.
477
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:52,300
Exactly.
478
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:53,300
Exactly.
479
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:59,300
They were far from elderly, but who would attack these nice grandparents?
480
00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:05,180
As she's recovering in a hospital bed, eventually, Lynn is able to provide some additional details
481
00:19:05,180 --> 00:19:08,100
about the events of that day.
482
00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:14,020
According to her statement to police, they left the house around 620, 630 to meet with
483
00:19:14,020 --> 00:19:16,780
a buyer whose name was Dave.
484
00:19:16,780 --> 00:19:19,020
Reportedly.
485
00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:21,380
In the evening or the morning?
486
00:19:21,380 --> 00:19:22,380
The morning.
487
00:19:22,380 --> 00:19:23,220
OK.
488
00:19:23,220 --> 00:19:26,460
It's February, so it would have already been like dark.
489
00:19:26,460 --> 00:19:27,460
Yeah.
490
00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:31,100
I didn't write it down, but then when I, when I was rereading my notes later, I was like,
491
00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:33,340
it wouldn't have been PM, it would have been dark.
492
00:19:33,340 --> 00:19:34,340
Yeah.
493
00:19:34,340 --> 00:19:35,340
Yeah.
494
00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:36,860
Also, that's really early.
495
00:19:36,860 --> 00:19:37,860
Yes.
496
00:19:37,860 --> 00:19:38,860
Pretty early.
497
00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:39,860
But that's like part of the whole fishing time.
498
00:19:39,860 --> 00:19:40,860
Yeah.
499
00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:43,500
I think fishing is usually even earlier than that.
500
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:44,500
Yeah.
501
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:46,900
Before, some like more am or something.
502
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:47,900
Yeah.
503
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,300
It was, you know, fishing experts.
504
00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:51,300
Cus fishing.
505
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:52,300
We are.
506
00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:54,300
Cus fishing, guys.
507
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:55,300
OK.
508
00:19:55,300 --> 00:20:03,940
It took over a half hour for someone to spot her and stop to assist following the attack.
509
00:20:03,940 --> 00:20:04,940
Over an hour?
510
00:20:04,940 --> 00:20:09,820
Over a half hour is what she said, but still, like those are 30 of the longest minutes of
511
00:20:09,820 --> 00:20:10,820
your life.
512
00:20:10,820 --> 00:20:11,820
Yeah.
513
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:15,300
Both of the unknown assailants were white males.
514
00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:22,220
They then believed Dave to be in his 40s with a medium build, roughly 5, 8, 5, 9 in height
515
00:20:22,220 --> 00:20:24,300
with brown hair.
516
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:34,700
So basically any dude, the other unnamed suspect was closer to about six feet tall with brown
517
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:40,300
hair and a stockier build, which is interesting to me because I would think of someone who's
518
00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:42,940
5, 8 or 5, 9 is having a stocky build.
519
00:20:42,940 --> 00:20:43,940
Right.
520
00:20:43,940 --> 00:20:45,260
You know, does that mean they're
521
00:20:45,260 --> 00:20:47,260
just like thick or thick?
522
00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:49,820
Or so they kind of look like thick with two seas.
523
00:20:49,820 --> 00:20:50,820
OK.
524
00:20:50,820 --> 00:20:51,820
Yeah.
525
00:20:51,820 --> 00:20:52,820
Yeah.
526
00:20:52,820 --> 00:21:00,100
Since they didn't have the boat with them and the couple's truck wasn't stolen, the investigators
527
00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:02,940
were a bit stumped when it came to motive.
528
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:07,860
Because if you're going to try to steal a boat and the people show up without a boat, kind
529
00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:08,860
of boils your plans.
530
00:21:08,860 --> 00:21:10,900
Let me just push someone down and then...
531
00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:11,900
Yeah.
532
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:12,900
And I'd...
533
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:13,900
Yeah.
534
00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:14,900
Not really sure.
535
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:22,500
A forensic sketch artist created composites of the suspects, which were then released
536
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:27,340
to the public in the hopes that someone might be able to identify them.
537
00:21:27,340 --> 00:21:31,660
The search team by the scene at the water came up empty.
538
00:21:31,660 --> 00:21:37,420
Tracking dogs didn't produce anything in the area either.
539
00:21:37,420 --> 00:21:42,500
One of the Corbett Firemen who responded to the scene and assisted in the care of Lynn
540
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:49,420
did have information to add about what she'd said when he'd accompanied her to the hospital.
541
00:21:49,420 --> 00:21:50,920
OK.
542
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:57,540
She had told him that Jerry had to run in with someone the week prior and believed it may
543
00:21:57,540 --> 00:22:01,140
have been one of the men involved in the attack.
544
00:22:01,140 --> 00:22:02,140
Hmm.
545
00:22:02,140 --> 00:22:03,340
I have a theory now.
546
00:22:03,340 --> 00:22:04,340
Oh, do you?
547
00:22:04,340 --> 00:22:05,340
That's OK.
548
00:22:05,340 --> 00:22:06,340
I'll keep it to myself.
549
00:22:06,340 --> 00:22:07,340
All right.
550
00:22:07,340 --> 00:22:08,340
Yeah.
551
00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:09,340
Keep it simmering.
552
00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:14,220
Detectives worked diligently on developing a timeline of the day of the crime, as well
553
00:22:14,220 --> 00:22:21,060
as recent events and whereabouts surrounding the days leading up to the attack.
554
00:22:21,060 --> 00:22:27,180
Jerry was known to speak his mind and could often be quick to anger, and investigators wanted
555
00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:33,000
to explore the possibility that this may have motivated someone to carry out a violent
556
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,940
attack against him and his wife.
557
00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:37,780
Hmm.
558
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:42,900
During the time leading up to the attack, it seemed that Jerry's behavior was essentially
559
00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:44,460
normal.
560
00:22:44,460 --> 00:22:48,580
He'd maintained a fairly typical routine.
561
00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:54,220
Lynn said that Jerry had taken hay up to click attack to feed their cows on that particular
562
00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:56,140
property.
563
00:22:56,140 --> 00:23:01,500
He spent the night on February 4th and returned the next day before noon, according to his
564
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:03,300
wife.
565
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:10,000
The Hood River Access toll bridge sits on the border of two neighboring states, and
566
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,980
surveillance cameras would be able to show Jerry in his truck passing between Oregon
567
00:23:15,980 --> 00:23:17,940
and Washington states.
568
00:23:17,940 --> 00:23:24,100
However, there was no sign of Jerry's pickup truck on the day Lynn said he'd been up to
569
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:26,140
their property in Washington.
570
00:23:26,140 --> 00:23:29,340
Oh, OK.
571
00:23:29,340 --> 00:23:31,340
Maybe he took a different road.
572
00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:35,260
I know, thanks.
573
00:23:35,260 --> 00:23:41,260
Investigators were left wondering whether there may have been people or places Jerry visited
574
00:23:41,260 --> 00:23:43,500
that he didn't share with his wife.
575
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:44,500
Oh.
576
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:45,500
Oh.
577
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:46,500
Oh.
578
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:53,940
When questioned, Lynn denied the possibility of infidelity on either side of the marriage.
579
00:23:53,940 --> 00:23:55,780
How quick was she to say no to that?
580
00:23:55,780 --> 00:23:56,780
At pretty quick.
581
00:23:56,780 --> 00:23:57,780
Pretty quick.
582
00:23:57,780 --> 00:23:58,780
Pretty quick.
583
00:23:58,780 --> 00:24:06,900
Yeah, she had some very expressive statements.
584
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:10,180
I mean, if your husband's missing, he's missing, right?
585
00:24:10,180 --> 00:24:12,300
Presum missing at this point.
586
00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:17,860
You don't want to think that if you're, if all is what it seems to be, I think maybe I
587
00:24:17,860 --> 00:24:21,980
would react that way to like no, of course he wouldn't, you know.
588
00:24:21,980 --> 00:24:26,860
Well, thank you would react the way that Lynn did though, because like I said, expressive
589
00:24:26,860 --> 00:24:29,660
is one way to play.
590
00:24:29,660 --> 00:24:30,980
How dare you imply?
591
00:24:30,980 --> 00:24:31,980
Yes.
592
00:24:31,980 --> 00:24:36,860
So, yeah, definitely expressive.
593
00:24:36,860 --> 00:24:45,380
More than 180 searchers spent five days looking for Jerry Stomps, but found no sign of the missing
594
00:24:45,380 --> 00:24:46,380
man.
595
00:24:46,380 --> 00:24:48,380
Oh.
596
00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:53,660
Detectives executed a search warrant on their cluttered home.
597
00:24:53,660 --> 00:24:59,180
Despite the obvious disarray in some areas of the home, others appeared to be absolutely
598
00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:00,180
spotless.
599
00:25:00,180 --> 00:25:01,180
Hmm.
600
00:25:01,180 --> 00:25:06,020
A fanny pack was located on the coat rack by the front door.
601
00:25:06,020 --> 00:25:08,500
In it was a revolver.
602
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:09,500
Uh-huh.
603
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:10,500
Yeah.
604
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:11,500
No, a fanny pack.
605
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:12,500
Uh-huh.
606
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:14,500
We really just went from zero to gun.
607
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:15,500
Wow.
608
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:16,500
Yeah.
609
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:17,500
Fanny pack gun.
610
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:18,500
Yep.
611
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:22,860
If Jerry was so concerned about meeting with strangers and was also known to take his
612
00:25:22,860 --> 00:25:30,020
gun everywhere, why would he have left it at home on the date in question?
613
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:32,220
He takes his gun in a fanny pack everywhere.
614
00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:33,220
I guess.
615
00:25:33,220 --> 00:25:34,220
Or he takes it everywhere.
616
00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:36,260
I don't know if it's always in the fanny pack.
617
00:25:36,260 --> 00:25:37,700
I want to think so.
618
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:39,860
Yeah.
619
00:25:39,860 --> 00:25:44,500
The gun appeared to have a very fine mist sprayed on it.
620
00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:46,500
What?
621
00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:52,380
Upon closer inspection, the strange spray of liquid appeared to be blood.
622
00:25:52,380 --> 00:25:57,620
The Oregon State Crime Lab examined the gun in order to determine whether the sample was
623
00:25:57,620 --> 00:26:00,220
animal or human.
624
00:26:00,220 --> 00:26:03,860
And I may not know a ton about guns.
625
00:26:03,860 --> 00:26:06,660
Um, I really don't.
626
00:26:06,660 --> 00:26:11,780
But I'd be awfully surprised to hear that someone like Jerry, who certainly was, used to
627
00:26:11,780 --> 00:26:15,300
be a revolver in a hunting application.
628
00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:16,300
Yeah.
629
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:17,860
I mean, like, didn't clean it.
630
00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:18,860
Yeah.
631
00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:26,780
And since he was also the type of guy who gave bare hunting seminars in his local community.
632
00:26:26,780 --> 00:26:29,940
This dude wasn't taken a 22 out to the woods.
633
00:26:29,940 --> 00:26:30,940
Damn.
634
00:26:30,940 --> 00:26:34,180
Haven't we talked about like bare hunting recently?
635
00:26:34,180 --> 00:26:35,180
Have we?
636
00:26:35,180 --> 00:26:36,180
I don't know.
637
00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:39,340
I feel like we like a bare hunting somehow got mentioned and one.
638
00:26:39,340 --> 00:26:41,340
Maintain one of your other episodes.
639
00:26:41,340 --> 00:26:42,340
Might have been.
640
00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:43,340
Oh my gosh.
641
00:26:43,340 --> 00:26:44,340
I don't know.
642
00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:48,180
I'm trying to think of what that would have been, but like bare hunting.
643
00:26:48,180 --> 00:26:50,540
Yeah, bare hunting.
644
00:26:50,540 --> 00:26:55,340
And I don't know if you've seen the revenant, but it typically doesn't end well for people
645
00:26:55,340 --> 00:26:58,700
that go up against bears with underpowered firearms.
646
00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:01,500
No, especially not if you're really an order to capture.
647
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:02,500
I know.
648
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:03,500
My God.
649
00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:05,300
I thought I'm moving the theater.
650
00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:06,300
That was intense.
651
00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:07,300
Yeah.
652
00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:11,580
I'm glad I watched it in the privacy of my own home because the faces and the sounds that
653
00:27:11,580 --> 00:27:17,700
I made surely were almost diswarifying as watching the film itself.
654
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:22,980
So unless he came across a horse trailer that had been overturned on the side of the road
655
00:27:22,980 --> 00:27:30,060
and channeled his inner dutton or some other similar scenario where he needed to put an
656
00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:35,220
animal down as an act of mercy, my money is on human blood.
657
00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:36,220
Yeah.
658
00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:37,220
Yeah.
659
00:27:37,220 --> 00:27:38,220
Yeah.
660
00:27:38,220 --> 00:27:42,140
You have never watched Yellowstone have you?
661
00:27:42,140 --> 00:27:44,820
No, I was going to say you made a reference.
662
00:27:44,820 --> 00:27:45,820
I don't understand.
663
00:27:45,820 --> 00:27:46,820
Yeah.
664
00:27:46,820 --> 00:27:47,820
I'm sorry.
665
00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:48,820
God damn it.
666
00:27:48,820 --> 00:27:49,820
It's Kevin Cosmer.
667
00:27:49,820 --> 00:27:50,820
It's best.
668
00:27:50,820 --> 00:27:52,820
I don't like him.
669
00:27:52,820 --> 00:27:53,820
Oh my God.
670
00:27:53,820 --> 00:28:00,580
I don't even know who you are.
671
00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:03,820
You guys, we have something really exciting to share with you.
672
00:28:03,820 --> 00:28:08,180
Let's hear a few words from our new pod besties.
673
00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:10,380
Hello twisted humans.
674
00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:14,140
Do you find yourself wanting to know more about the latest murder?
675
00:28:14,140 --> 00:28:15,140
Conspiracy?
676
00:28:15,140 --> 00:28:16,140
Cult?
677
00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:17,140
Or haunting?
678
00:28:17,140 --> 00:28:19,620
Then this is the podcast for you.
679
00:28:19,620 --> 00:28:23,300
We're bringing the most intense stories that will keep you up at night.
680
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:31,220
He was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter and philonia's assault, but he was only sentenced
681
00:28:31,220 --> 00:28:37,820
to five months of probation and this would be the last time that anyone ever saw fear.
682
00:28:37,820 --> 00:28:42,460
There are allegedly two women who also drowned in the first month's school.
683
00:28:42,460 --> 00:28:46,700
Is this the same glowing green they'd seen in the darkness the night before?
684
00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:53,820
He had refused to sit near the wagon cloth because of stains on it, which were most likely
685
00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:54,820
blood.
686
00:28:54,820 --> 00:29:00,300
Join us every Tuesday for a glass of wine or sangria and a dose of true crime.
687
00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:01,820
I'm Alicia.
688
00:29:01,820 --> 00:29:06,900
And I'm Sierra and this is twisted and un-court.
689
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:09,020
Check them out creepy people.
690
00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:11,020
Their info is in our show notes.
691
00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:18,180
Meanwhile, as human search efforts continued around the Gordon Creek Bridge and nearby
692
00:29:18,180 --> 00:29:26,340
areas, scent dogs were brought out to the property to explore some areas with freshly disturbed
693
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:31,980
ground in the front yard of the property in the front yard.
694
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:36,420
But they seemingly had no interest in those dirt piles.
695
00:29:36,420 --> 00:29:37,420
Yes.
696
00:29:37,420 --> 00:29:41,100
Dogs were like, I don't know, man, that just looks like dirt.
697
00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:43,700
Were they can ever dogs?
698
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:47,060
Or just dogs sniffing like the scent of the human?
699
00:29:47,060 --> 00:29:53,500
I think they, they said specifically scent dogs and I think they're more stereotypically
700
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:59,900
trained to catch the scent of an individual, but like if they catch the scent and that
701
00:29:59,900 --> 00:30:03,380
person's dead, they would alert.
702
00:30:03,380 --> 00:30:04,380
Okay.
703
00:30:04,380 --> 00:30:10,220
And as if they caught their scent just from like an item of clothing or kind of wondering,
704
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:12,820
does your scent change after you die?
705
00:30:12,820 --> 00:30:14,940
Yeah, you smelt dead.
706
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:19,700
Well, but like to dog, I was wondering like if dogs like does it change?
707
00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:20,700
I don't know.
708
00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:21,700
Yeah.
709
00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:31,020
It's an interesting kind of thought, but it's, I don't want to know.
710
00:30:31,020 --> 00:30:36,380
The organizer of a local search and rescue group had taken his German shepherd around the
711
00:30:36,380 --> 00:30:44,540
outside of the couple's house where the dog did eventually lead to an interesting discovery.
712
00:30:44,540 --> 00:30:52,460
While the dog didn't outright alert, it showed great interest in a large burn pile.
713
00:30:52,460 --> 00:30:54,100
Oh.
714
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:56,140
Okay.
715
00:30:56,140 --> 00:30:58,540
How you feeling about your theory right now?
716
00:30:58,540 --> 00:30:59,540
Pretty good.
717
00:30:59,540 --> 00:31:00,540
Okay.
718
00:31:00,540 --> 00:31:01,540
Feeling good about it?
719
00:31:01,540 --> 00:31:02,540
Yeah.
720
00:31:02,540 --> 00:31:08,380
The dog's owner said he had a hard time getting his dog away from the area and noted that burned
721
00:31:08,380 --> 00:31:13,940
petroleum products can make it difficult for canines to smell.
722
00:31:13,940 --> 00:31:21,140
So he may not have alerted because he couldn't really tell for sure if he's smelling what
723
00:31:21,140 --> 00:31:23,420
he thinks he's smelling.
724
00:31:23,420 --> 00:31:25,420
That's my takeaway.
725
00:31:25,420 --> 00:31:26,420
Yeah.
726
00:31:26,420 --> 00:31:35,580
So, I think it's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the story of the
727
00:31:35,580 --> 00:31:36,580
animal.
728
00:31:36,580 --> 00:31:40,820
I think it's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the animal.
729
00:31:40,820 --> 00:31:44,980
It's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the animal.
730
00:31:44,980 --> 00:31:49,260
It's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the animal.
731
00:31:49,260 --> 00:31:53,020
It's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the animal.
732
00:31:53,020 --> 00:32:03,020
It's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the animal.
733
00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:06,980
It's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the animal.
734
00:32:06,980 --> 00:32:11,220
It's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the animal.
735
00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:15,220
It's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the animal.
736
00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:19,620
It's a very good idea to have a very good understanding of the animal.
737
00:32:19,620 --> 00:32:23,860
They who totally exist, who responded to their Craigslist ad.
738
00:32:23,860 --> 00:32:32,220
However, the limb line did not reflect calls from a mysterious Dave as Lynn had stated,
739
00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:35,300
"How did they set up this meeting then if they didn't communicate?"
740
00:32:35,300 --> 00:32:36,900
They write each other letters.
741
00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:42,860
You know they might have, but you know they would have used the wax seals.
742
00:32:42,860 --> 00:32:47,980
They were able to determine that no one had spoken to Jerry since prior to the Super
743
00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:48,980
Ball.
744
00:32:48,980 --> 00:32:53,980
Oh, that was like a couple of weeks before this.
745
00:32:53,980 --> 00:32:59,780
That year, I didn't look up the specific date, but that it accounts for roughly about a week.
746
00:32:59,780 --> 00:33:04,300
I was trying to quickly remember the date that you had said in February.
747
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:10,300
February 6th is when this all happens, supposedly on the Gordon Creek Bridge.
748
00:33:10,300 --> 00:33:11,300
Yeah.
749
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:15,100
A new theory was developing in the case.
750
00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:23,220
The investigators began to suspect that sometime between January 30th and roughly early February,
751
00:33:23,220 --> 00:33:28,660
that Lynn had murdered Jerry, dismembered his body, and then burned the remains in an
752
00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:32,540
effort to cover up her crime.
753
00:33:32,540 --> 00:33:40,540
During that time, Lynn babysat the couple's two young grandchildren, one of whom remembered
754
00:33:40,540 --> 00:33:43,180
asking where Grandpa was.
755
00:33:43,180 --> 00:33:51,820
The couple's sons were initially supportive of their mother as the trial got underway because
756
00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:54,820
spoiler alert, this is going to go trial.
757
00:33:54,820 --> 00:34:00,700
However, as time went on and they learned about the gun in the Fanny Pack by the door, they
758
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:08,580
were quickly convinced that unfortunately their mom was like, "Prop's off-skill to you
759
00:34:08,580 --> 00:34:11,860
of the crime of which she was accused."
760
00:34:11,860 --> 00:34:12,860
Yep.
761
00:34:12,860 --> 00:34:18,420
Jason said his father had even taken the gun to church.
762
00:34:18,420 --> 00:34:22,060
So that's where Lynn's story completely fell apart in their eyes.
763
00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:23,060
Yeah.
764
00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:26,260
Jerry also didn't have his wallet on him.
765
00:34:26,260 --> 00:34:29,220
Okay.
766
00:34:29,220 --> 00:34:36,060
Medical professionals were able to point to another irregularity.
767
00:34:36,060 --> 00:34:40,780
Lynn did not arrive to the hospital with numerous bruises and scratches, as one might
768
00:34:40,780 --> 00:34:41,780
expect.
769
00:34:41,780 --> 00:34:42,780
Hmm.
770
00:34:42,780 --> 00:34:50,020
There were generally very few indications of physical injury that were consistent with the
771
00:34:50,020 --> 00:34:54,740
type of struggle that she had described.
772
00:34:54,740 --> 00:34:55,740
Hmm.
773
00:34:55,740 --> 00:35:01,380
Another damning detail that came to light by way of statements made by Richard, their
774
00:35:01,380 --> 00:35:10,340
renter on the property, he said he had seen smoke coming from the burn pit recently.
775
00:35:10,340 --> 00:35:17,620
And obviously that directly conflicted with everything that Lynn was saying because Lynn
776
00:35:17,620 --> 00:35:21,300
denied having recently utilized the burn pit.
777
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:22,300
Yeah.
778
00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:23,300
Of course she did.
779
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:27,340
Did they catch her going over the bridge on that camera?
780
00:35:27,340 --> 00:35:33,900
Not that I was able to find in any of the court records or any, you know, "Huh.
781
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:34,900
Yeah."
782
00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:35,900
Interesting.
783
00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:42,980
While some of this may have initially been easily dismissed as circumstantial by Lynn's
784
00:35:42,980 --> 00:35:51,020
supporters, the mitochondrial DNA of the bones and the blood on the revolver were tested
785
00:35:51,020 --> 00:35:54,420
against Jerry's and proved to be a match.
786
00:35:54,420 --> 00:35:55,420
Oh.
787
00:35:55,420 --> 00:36:02,180
So the blood on the gun in the fanny pack by their front door on the coat rack and the bones
788
00:36:02,180 --> 00:36:06,300
that were being burned on their property.
789
00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:07,300
It matched.
790
00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:11,100
I mean, I like assumed that they would, but yeah.
791
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:13,100
I'm hoping that you were going to say no.
792
00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:14,100
Yeah.
793
00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:16,700
I mean, the bear theory was a pretty good one.
794
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:17,700
He's bear hunter.
795
00:36:17,700 --> 00:36:18,700
Yeah.
796
00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:19,700
Good to be.
797
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:20,700
Those are big bones.
798
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:21,700
Yes.
799
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:22,700
Cooking the bear meat, eating it.
800
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:23,700
You don't waste it.
801
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:24,700
Yeah.
802
00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:25,700
Do people eat bear meat?
803
00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:26,700
Yeah.
804
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:28,900
I mean, I would think so.
805
00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:35,220
I don't know what the legality is depending on like the type of bear because I would assume
806
00:36:35,220 --> 00:36:39,700
probably there are some types of bears that are protected.
807
00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:46,500
You know, they may be close to extinction or, you know, just already over hunted.
808
00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:47,500
Yeah.
809
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:48,500
That makes sense.
810
00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:49,500
Yeah.
811
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:50,500
I don't know.
812
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:52,780
Should have looked deeper into the bear thing.
813
00:36:52,780 --> 00:36:53,780
You should have.
814
00:36:53,780 --> 00:36:54,780
Yeah.
815
00:36:54,780 --> 00:36:55,780
How could you have known?
816
00:36:55,780 --> 00:37:02,520
You know, all I saw was the one newspaper notice about Jerry giving a seminar about bear
817
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:03,520
hunting.
818
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,700
And I just didn't know what a major role it was going to play in this case.
819
00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:08,700
You never know what I'm going to latch on to.
820
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:10,740
You really tell us.
821
00:37:10,740 --> 00:37:16,500
Lynn, well, she was still recovering in the hospital from the injuries detectives now
822
00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:20,340
believed to be self-inflicted when she was arrested.
823
00:37:20,340 --> 00:37:21,340
Mm-hmm.
824
00:37:21,340 --> 00:37:25,740
When she was arrested, they literally, there are pictures of her in her hospital bed.
825
00:37:25,740 --> 00:37:29,980
And it's like her mugshot.
826
00:37:29,980 --> 00:37:32,820
Her mugshot is in her hospital bed.
827
00:37:32,820 --> 00:37:34,580
And you can totally tell.
828
00:37:34,580 --> 00:37:35,580
Holy shit.
829
00:37:35,580 --> 00:37:37,060
I didn't know they did that.
830
00:37:37,060 --> 00:37:38,060
Yeah.
831
00:37:38,060 --> 00:37:42,220
They for sure do that because they're like, hmm, listen, right now she's got this whole
832
00:37:42,220 --> 00:37:45,340
like broken body situation.
833
00:37:45,340 --> 00:37:50,620
But if she decides to book it, I was going to say, didn't you say her pelvis and her ribs
834
00:37:50,620 --> 00:37:51,620
were broken?
835
00:37:51,620 --> 00:37:59,980
Yeah, so it was described either as her having a broken hip or a broken pelvis and then yes,
836
00:37:59,980 --> 00:38:02,100
also additionally a broken rib.
837
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:05,460
So she actually did have some like pretty serious injuries.
838
00:38:05,460 --> 00:38:06,460
She did.
839
00:38:06,460 --> 00:38:07,460
But they were.
840
00:38:07,460 --> 00:38:10,940
And the theory of Wulgitha.
841
00:38:10,940 --> 00:38:11,940
Yeah.
842
00:38:11,940 --> 00:38:12,940
Nope.
843
00:38:12,940 --> 00:38:21,580
She for sure actually broke these bones, but she faced three charges, murder, abuse,
844
00:38:21,580 --> 00:38:29,580
of a corpse in the first degree, both felonies and the misdemeanor charge of initiating a false
845
00:38:29,580 --> 00:38:30,580
report.
846
00:38:30,580 --> 00:38:33,180
Got to throw anything again in there.
847
00:38:33,180 --> 00:38:36,180
I mean, yeah, they kind of do.
848
00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:41,220
At her arrangement, she pled not guilty to all three of the charges.
849
00:38:41,220 --> 00:38:47,900
Pre trial, the judge suppressed any statements she made while undergoing treatment at the hospital,
850
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:51,020
which was a super hot debate.
851
00:38:51,020 --> 00:38:56,220
But the long and the short of it is basically that defense council was saying like, you guys
852
00:38:56,220 --> 00:38:59,700
like she was in pretty extreme pain.
853
00:38:59,700 --> 00:39:03,220
She started having drugs pumped into her.
854
00:39:03,220 --> 00:39:06,860
Like none of what she said should be admissible in this case.
855
00:39:06,860 --> 00:39:07,860
Yeah.
856
00:39:07,860 --> 00:39:11,380
And the judge was like, it's kind of a pain in the ass, but like true.
857
00:39:11,380 --> 00:39:12,380
Yeah.
858
00:39:12,380 --> 00:39:16,700
I mean, was she being like, well, I guess she was probably being like formally questioned.
859
00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:23,260
Well, yeah, they were doing so under like, it was a totally different context.
860
00:39:23,260 --> 00:39:26,620
Because she was like, because she was for a crime.
861
00:39:26,620 --> 00:39:27,620
Right.
862
00:39:27,620 --> 00:39:34,220
I mean, she was being, she was being interviewed as the victim.
863
00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:35,220
Yeah.
864
00:39:35,220 --> 00:39:41,940
Versus now, you know, if they knew going in that she had been, you know, potentially a perpetrator,
865
00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:45,540
obviously, they probably would have, it probably would have been a little bit different.
866
00:39:45,540 --> 00:39:46,540
Yeah.
867
00:39:46,540 --> 00:39:47,780
You would have gone down a little bit different.
868
00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:49,380
She wouldn't need a lawyer.
869
00:39:49,380 --> 00:39:50,380
Yeah.
870
00:39:50,380 --> 00:39:51,380
Yeah.
871
00:39:51,380 --> 00:39:57,060
But the judge allowed in the physical evidence found during the search that Lynn had allowed
872
00:39:57,060 --> 00:39:58,660
of their property.
873
00:39:58,660 --> 00:40:06,420
Because the lesser two charges would later be dismissed, though she was denied bail prior
874
00:40:06,420 --> 00:40:07,420
to trial.
875
00:40:07,420 --> 00:40:14,540
Which like, okay, even if she had bail, it kind of seems like it was going to take her
876
00:40:14,540 --> 00:40:18,540
three or four minutes to be like up to moving around and doing anything.
877
00:40:18,540 --> 00:40:19,540
Yeah.
878
00:40:19,540 --> 00:40:20,540
You know what I mean?
879
00:40:20,540 --> 00:40:22,500
I don't know.
880
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:30,180
Then shortly before her trial was to begin, Richard, the couple's render died of an apparent
881
00:40:30,180 --> 00:40:34,180
suicide.
882
00:40:34,180 --> 00:40:37,180
Jesus.
883
00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:42,980
It was ruled that his statements regarding the burn pile and seeing smoke on the property
884
00:40:42,980 --> 00:40:47,940
could not be shared at trial posthumously.
885
00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:49,740
Because he died?
886
00:40:49,740 --> 00:40:51,860
Why?
887
00:40:51,860 --> 00:40:53,740
He wasn't there to testify to it anymore.
888
00:40:53,740 --> 00:40:55,780
Oh, but oh, I see.
889
00:40:55,780 --> 00:40:56,780
Yeah.
890
00:40:56,780 --> 00:41:00,220
But they couldn't take a statement still like.
891
00:41:00,220 --> 00:41:07,180
I know I thought that seemed a little bit odd as well, but despite how sus this looks, he
892
00:41:07,180 --> 00:41:11,780
did have a history of depression as well as a previous suicide attempt.
893
00:41:11,780 --> 00:41:17,940
And based on the evidence found when his death was discovered, detectives were really confident
894
00:41:17,940 --> 00:41:24,820
that this was a suicide rather than a homicide intended to quiet a witness.
895
00:41:24,820 --> 00:41:25,820
Yeah.
896
00:41:25,820 --> 00:41:31,940
The good news is that another nearby neighbor was able to be called to testify to witnessing
897
00:41:31,940 --> 00:41:35,500
the very same smoke coming from the burn pile on the property.
898
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:36,500
Okay.
899
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:37,500
No.
900
00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:39,020
At least someone else saw it.
901
00:41:39,020 --> 00:41:40,020
Exactly.
902
00:41:40,020 --> 00:41:41,020
It's really sad, though.
903
00:41:41,020 --> 00:41:42,020
It was not awful.
904
00:41:42,020 --> 00:41:47,300
Yeah, I mean, a lot of people were like, "That looks super scared."
905
00:41:47,300 --> 00:41:51,740
But she was in custody, right?
906
00:41:51,740 --> 00:41:52,740
Right.
907
00:41:52,740 --> 00:41:55,140
Not to say that she couldn't have had somebody else.
908
00:41:55,140 --> 00:41:56,140
That's true.
909
00:41:56,140 --> 00:41:57,140
Yeah.
910
00:41:57,140 --> 00:41:59,140
Doesn't seem like she did.
911
00:41:59,140 --> 00:42:00,140
Yeah.
912
00:42:00,140 --> 00:42:05,380
I was going to say, are you going to tell us that she had to help with the first one?
913
00:42:05,380 --> 00:42:08,660
That would be really interesting, wouldn't it?
914
00:42:08,660 --> 00:42:11,540
I guess we'll see.
915
00:42:11,540 --> 00:42:15,340
Lins trial got underway in January of 2011.
916
00:42:15,340 --> 00:42:17,980
So this is almost two years after.
917
00:42:17,980 --> 00:42:18,980
Wow.
918
00:42:18,980 --> 00:42:20,740
It's crazy.
919
00:42:20,740 --> 00:42:23,620
And it lasted just a couple of weeks.
920
00:42:23,620 --> 00:42:28,460
So goddamn, I thought it's not the classic example of hurry up and wait.
921
00:42:28,460 --> 00:42:33,980
It's like two years to get there and then it only takes a couple of weeks.
922
00:42:33,980 --> 00:42:39,500
The prosecutor explained that they believed Lins had injured herself on a walking trail
923
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:45,340
near the Sandy River while attempting to plant evidence that Jerry was swept away
924
00:42:45,340 --> 00:42:48,220
by the river in a fishing accident.
925
00:42:48,220 --> 00:42:49,220
Oh.
926
00:42:49,220 --> 00:42:50,220
Yeah.
927
00:42:50,220 --> 00:42:51,220
Okay.
928
00:42:51,220 --> 00:42:56,460
She had to scramble up.
929
00:42:56,460 --> 00:43:01,900
Try to get herself some help and that's where this cockamimi story about trying to
930
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:07,500
sell the boat and these mysterious Dave and yeah.
931
00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:11,900
She had to come up with that one real fast because they're playing me, playing me.
932
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:12,900
Yeah.
933
00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:13,900
I felt a cliff.
934
00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:21,380
That's like really funny though, to be trying to do a crime and then you fall off a cliff.
935
00:43:21,380 --> 00:43:22,380
Yeah.
936
00:43:22,380 --> 00:43:25,980
Or a bridge or maybe you just stub your fucking toe so badly.
937
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:26,980
No.
938
00:43:26,980 --> 00:43:27,980
I don't know.
939
00:43:27,980 --> 00:43:31,140
I don't know why I keep thinking cliff because like calling up a bridge seems kind of hard
940
00:43:31,140 --> 00:43:32,140
to do.
941
00:43:32,140 --> 00:43:33,140
Yeah.
942
00:43:33,140 --> 00:43:34,140
Well, no exactly.
943
00:43:34,140 --> 00:43:41,300
I think their point was that she probably didn't actually fall off the bridge.
944
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:47,980
It was probably some other way that not quite as extreme of an example, but like that's
945
00:43:47,980 --> 00:43:51,540
how she was out and about in the wilderness and like who knows.
946
00:43:51,540 --> 00:43:57,420
Maybe she tripped over a log and like the way she landed like cracked her bone.
947
00:43:57,420 --> 00:43:58,420
Damn.
948
00:43:58,420 --> 00:44:01,140
I mean, she has a grandma.
949
00:44:01,140 --> 00:44:02,140
Well, exactly.
950
00:44:02,140 --> 00:44:03,140
Yeah.
951
00:44:03,140 --> 00:44:06,180
I'm gonna take care of them hips, you know.
952
00:44:06,180 --> 00:44:07,580
Yeah.
953
00:44:07,580 --> 00:44:13,940
Furthermore, the investigation had uncovered several thousand dollars she had lent to their
954
00:44:13,940 --> 00:44:22,500
son Jason as well as over fifty thousand dollars in debt that she had accrued.
955
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:24,740
All of this without Jerry's knowledge.
956
00:44:24,740 --> 00:44:29,060
But you know how he feels about that.
957
00:44:29,060 --> 00:44:30,060
Yeah.
958
00:44:30,060 --> 00:44:31,060
That's a lot of debt.
959
00:44:31,060 --> 00:44:32,540
It's a little too of debt.
960
00:44:32,540 --> 00:44:33,540
Yeah.
961
00:44:33,540 --> 00:44:35,860
And then, you know, lending money to the son.
962
00:44:35,860 --> 00:44:42,180
I don't know if he would have been against that necessarily, but I would like to think that
963
00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:49,060
probably because he had such a strong minded, you know, perspective on debt that he probably
964
00:44:49,060 --> 00:44:52,380
would have been like, this is not a good thing to be doing.
965
00:44:52,380 --> 00:44:57,700
You know, don't encourage our son to like take on debt or not be financially responsible.
966
00:44:57,700 --> 00:44:58,700
Yeah.
967
00:44:58,700 --> 00:45:01,220
But who knows.
968
00:45:01,220 --> 00:45:08,140
The jury was said to have deliberated for five hours before she was found guilty on January
969
00:45:08,140 --> 00:45:14,660
24th, 2011, her sentencing following the next day.
970
00:45:14,660 --> 00:45:21,180
She received a life sentence with the possibility of parole after 25 years.
971
00:45:21,180 --> 00:45:27,540
So it was also hit with a financial assessment that came in at a total of sixteen thousand
972
00:45:27,540 --> 00:45:32,500
one hundred thirty six dollars and eighty eight cents.
973
00:45:32,500 --> 00:45:38,500
To date, there are payments and credits totaling nine hundred eighty six dollars and eighty
974
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:42,820
three cents that have been applied to the debt.
975
00:45:42,820 --> 00:45:49,060
Sadly, though Jason inherited roughly a hundred and ninety thousand dollars from his parents
976
00:45:49,060 --> 00:45:55,460
of the state, once he had paid outstanding bills, it actually left him in a pretty rough spot
977
00:45:55,460 --> 00:45:56,460
financially.
978
00:45:56,460 --> 00:45:57,940
Oh, no.
979
00:45:57,940 --> 00:46:01,420
Yeah, that's not fair.
980
00:46:01,420 --> 00:46:03,180
I know.
981
00:46:03,180 --> 00:46:08,900
Both of the couple's sons intended to give victim impact statements, but Jason got pretty
982
00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:15,340
choked up and he ended up deciding that he couldn't move forward with what he had planned
983
00:46:15,340 --> 00:46:17,540
to say.
984
00:46:17,540 --> 00:46:23,180
Some however had no problem delivering some very harsh words to Lynn.
985
00:46:23,180 --> 00:46:24,820
It was a C-Snap.
986
00:46:24,820 --> 00:46:25,820
Good.
987
00:46:25,820 --> 00:46:33,420
I just thought how ironic that in the end she's still left with a mountain of debt rather
988
00:46:33,420 --> 00:46:38,580
than living the high life as the queen of their shared estate.
989
00:46:38,580 --> 00:46:44,420
And that's why I put in the stuff about her financial assessment and how little of it has
990
00:46:44,420 --> 00:46:45,940
been paid today.
991
00:46:45,940 --> 00:46:46,940
It's just like...
992
00:46:46,940 --> 00:46:47,940
Like what?
993
00:46:47,940 --> 00:46:51,020
Like you had it all.
994
00:46:51,020 --> 00:46:52,020
Yeah.
995
00:46:52,020 --> 00:46:56,020
But I mean, you know, I guess you don't really know what went on in their life and their marriage
996
00:46:56,020 --> 00:47:01,060
and you know, probably wasn't an angel, you know?
997
00:47:01,060 --> 00:47:02,060
Yeah.
998
00:47:02,060 --> 00:47:03,300
Not that he deserved to die, obviously.
999
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:04,300
No.
1000
00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:05,300
No, but you know.
1001
00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:06,300
I would never say that.
1002
00:47:06,300 --> 00:47:12,300
A lot of people felt like, you know, they kind of, they danced around it, but it seemed
1003
00:47:12,300 --> 00:47:15,940
like some people thought that, you know, Jerry was kind of a dick.
1004
00:47:15,940 --> 00:47:19,860
But, Mel, the control wafting off of it.
1005
00:47:19,860 --> 00:47:26,260
Yeah, a little bit, but, you know, I think ultimately it seemed like he wanted the best for
1006
00:47:26,260 --> 00:47:28,060
his family.
1007
00:47:28,060 --> 00:47:34,140
And I've heard kind of through the course of research some different things about like
1008
00:47:34,140 --> 00:47:42,380
how it was that Lynn got into that crazy amount of debt after she inherited like over a million
1009
00:47:42,380 --> 00:47:43,380
dollars.
1010
00:47:43,380 --> 00:47:44,380
Yeah.
1011
00:47:44,380 --> 00:47:50,420
And the math ain't math in just, it just makes me think of like there was stuff that she
1012
00:47:50,420 --> 00:47:52,900
wanted that she like wasn't allowed to get it.
1013
00:47:52,900 --> 00:47:53,900
Oh, yeah.
1014
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:56,460
Just like people just leave.
1015
00:47:56,460 --> 00:47:57,460
Yeah.
1016
00:47:57,460 --> 00:47:58,460
Isn't it her money?
1017
00:47:58,460 --> 00:48:00,460
I guess if you're married, maybe you would have to split it.
1018
00:48:00,460 --> 00:48:08,420
Yeah, maybe, but like half of something is better than having $15,000 in debt to the state
1019
00:48:08,420 --> 00:48:10,100
while you rotten prison.
1020
00:48:10,100 --> 00:48:11,100
Yeah.
1021
00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:14,100
Like you're never going to get away with it.
1022
00:48:14,100 --> 00:48:22,620
I just, yeah, I mean, certainly not if you left the bloody gun in your house, you didn't
1023
00:48:22,620 --> 00:48:25,420
even try to clean it.
1024
00:48:25,420 --> 00:48:27,580
Yeah.
1025
00:48:27,580 --> 00:48:30,420
Not exactly sure how that was supposed to work.
1026
00:48:30,420 --> 00:48:31,420
Yeah.
1027
00:48:31,420 --> 00:48:37,100
Like how do you burn, you burned a body, but you left the smoking gun in your house.
1028
00:48:37,100 --> 00:48:41,380
And you really didn't burn the body.
1029
00:48:41,380 --> 00:48:50,340
Like if you want to get rid of all of the evidence from that person's remains, like it
1030
00:48:50,340 --> 00:48:53,740
is very difficult to burn a body.
1031
00:48:53,740 --> 00:48:59,460
And that is why people that choose that mode are so frequently caught because they think
1032
00:48:59,460 --> 00:49:00,700
they've burned the body.
1033
00:49:00,700 --> 00:49:09,060
But those are charred bones and they were able to get mitochondrial DNA samples to match
1034
00:49:09,060 --> 00:49:10,060
it.
1035
00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:17,020
Like if they can find fucking carpet fibers, they can find pieces of bone.
1036
00:49:17,020 --> 00:49:18,020
Yeah.
1037
00:49:18,020 --> 00:49:19,020
Okay.
1038
00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:20,020
Yeah.
1039
00:49:20,020 --> 00:49:21,020
And I don't know.
1040
00:49:21,020 --> 00:49:22,780
Maybe she just thought like who knows?
1041
00:49:22,780 --> 00:49:24,780
I didn't watch CSI.
1042
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:26,580
No, no, I don't think so.
1043
00:49:26,580 --> 00:49:28,580
Or maybe she really thought she could pass that off.
1044
00:49:28,580 --> 00:49:33,300
And she was like, oh yeah, those are, you know, it's bones from one of his hunting trips.
1045
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:36,020
Well, why are you burning animal bones?
1046
00:49:36,020 --> 00:49:37,020
I don't know.
1047
00:49:37,020 --> 00:49:41,100
I just none of it makes any sense.
1048
00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:42,100
It doesn't.
1049
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:43,100
Yeah.
1050
00:49:43,100 --> 00:49:47,620
And she let them search the house knowing that the gun wasn't there.
1051
00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:48,620
Yeah.
1052
00:49:48,620 --> 00:49:54,420
I mean, unless she forgot, like there's like, senility isn't a defense though.
1053
00:49:54,420 --> 00:49:55,420
So yeah.
1054
00:49:55,420 --> 00:49:56,420
Yeah.
1055
00:49:56,420 --> 00:49:57,420
It doesn't really matter.
1056
00:49:57,420 --> 00:49:59,700
That's just, it's just weird.
1057
00:49:59,700 --> 00:50:00,700
Yeah.
1058
00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:02,020
It's very strange.
1059
00:50:02,020 --> 00:50:03,020
Yeah.
1060
00:50:03,020 --> 00:50:07,940
Maybe her plan was to grow to prison because she wasn't so much dead and she was like, well,
1061
00:50:07,940 --> 00:50:08,940
I don't know.
1062
00:50:08,940 --> 00:50:09,940
I don't know.
1063
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:10,940
I don't know.
1064
00:50:10,940 --> 00:50:12,940
I don't know.
1065
00:50:12,940 --> 00:50:19,340
I, you know, it's interesting because I feel like even the two men that came to her rescue
1066
00:50:19,340 --> 00:50:24,980
from the roadside, they were like, yes, stuff just didn't add up about her story, like
1067
00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:26,500
right off the bat.
1068
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:28,660
And they testified in court to that.
1069
00:50:28,660 --> 00:50:30,660
Well, yeah.
1070
00:50:30,660 --> 00:50:35,180
I mean, she couldn't even fool her own family either.
1071
00:50:35,180 --> 00:50:41,340
Like her son's pretty quickly came to the conclusion like, our mother did this because
1072
00:50:41,340 --> 00:50:46,340
some of what was being said or some of the evidence that was being shared, it just, it
1073
00:50:46,340 --> 00:50:47,940
didn't make any sense.
1074
00:50:47,940 --> 00:50:49,940
Jesus.
1075
00:50:49,940 --> 00:50:50,940
Well.
1076
00:50:50,940 --> 00:50:53,940
Should we do some tarot?
1077
00:50:53,940 --> 00:50:54,940
Let's do some tarot.
1078
00:50:54,940 --> 00:50:56,380
Do you think they'll make us feel better?
1079
00:50:56,380 --> 00:50:57,380
I think a little bit.
1080
00:50:57,380 --> 00:50:58,380
Okay.
1081
00:50:58,380 --> 00:51:01,300
I mean, I won't get rid of it all, but couldn't hurt.
1082
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:02,300
Yeah.
1083
00:51:02,300 --> 00:51:03,300
Couldn't hurt.
1084
00:51:03,300 --> 00:51:04,300
Yeah.
1085
00:51:04,300 --> 00:51:05,300
Okay.
1086
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:06,300
Do you think?
1087
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:07,300
All right.
1088
00:51:07,300 --> 00:51:08,300
Do your witchy tarot thing.
1089
00:51:08,300 --> 00:51:15,300
I think we're feeling like that area.
1090
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:16,300
Yeah.
1091
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:17,300
Yeah.
1092
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:18,300
Oh.
1093
00:51:18,300 --> 00:51:19,300
Oh.
1094
00:51:19,300 --> 00:51:20,300
What is it?
1095
00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:21,300
What does it?
1096
00:51:21,300 --> 00:51:28,300
Oh.
1097
00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:29,300
Oh my gosh.
1098
00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:31,300
We got the magician.
1099
00:51:31,300 --> 00:51:32,300
Interesting.
1100
00:51:32,300 --> 00:51:33,300
Okay.
1101
00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:34,300
Got the magician in Ravas.
1102
00:51:34,300 --> 00:51:35,300
Oh, we got it in reverse.
1103
00:51:35,300 --> 00:51:36,300
Okay.
1104
00:51:36,300 --> 00:51:37,300
Okay.
1105
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:38,300
The magician.
1106
00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:42,540
You didn't light your crystals on fire.
1107
00:51:42,540 --> 00:51:43,540
No.
1108
00:51:43,540 --> 00:51:47,220
Cause I mean, they're going to drip wax everywhere.
1109
00:51:47,220 --> 00:51:50,060
That'll be like a special setup.
1110
00:51:50,060 --> 00:51:53,420
Do we even have any actual crystals on the altar?
1111
00:51:53,420 --> 00:51:54,420
I don't think so.
1112
00:51:54,420 --> 00:51:55,420
Not this time.
1113
00:51:55,420 --> 00:51:56,420
What is wrong with you?
1114
00:51:56,420 --> 00:51:58,620
I mean, a lot of things.
1115
00:51:58,620 --> 00:52:00,940
We need at least one.
1116
00:52:00,940 --> 00:52:05,220
I mean, we have our crystals.
1117
00:52:05,220 --> 00:52:06,220
We have crystals.
1118
00:52:06,220 --> 00:52:07,220
Okay.
1119
00:52:07,220 --> 00:52:09,220
I'm wearing our crystals.
1120
00:52:09,220 --> 00:52:10,420
Oh, there you go.
1121
00:52:10,420 --> 00:52:11,420
Me too.
1122
00:52:11,420 --> 00:52:12,420
I have a story about these.
1123
00:52:12,420 --> 00:52:13,420
I can tell you later.
1124
00:52:13,420 --> 00:52:14,420
Okay.
1125
00:52:14,420 --> 00:52:15,420
Okay.
1126
00:52:15,420 --> 00:52:22,420
Okay.
1127
00:52:22,420 --> 00:52:29,420
Okay.
1128
00:52:29,420 --> 00:52:30,420
Okay.
1129
00:52:30,420 --> 00:52:31,420
Okay.
1130
00:52:31,420 --> 00:52:34,420
Our key words are hidden power, magical ability, mastering unseen forces and inner guidance.
1131
00:52:34,420 --> 00:52:36,420
A powerful and wise figure.
1132
00:52:36,420 --> 00:52:44,420
The magician represents the ability to understand and command the unseen forces that operate in the universe.
1133
00:52:44,420 --> 00:53:07,420
The magicians' knowledge enables him to manipulate the material world by aligning it with the spiritual
1134
00:53:07,420 --> 00:53:12,420
plane so he can create the circumstances he desires.
1135
00:53:12,420 --> 00:53:13,420
Huh.
1136
00:53:13,420 --> 00:53:17,420
Sounds like someone did in a negative way though.
1137
00:53:17,420 --> 00:53:18,420
Oh, possibly.
1138
00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:22,620
Like manipulating things to look like something else.
1139
00:53:22,620 --> 00:53:23,620
Yeah.
1140
00:53:23,620 --> 00:53:27,820
It says, "That's what you do when you cast a spell."
1141
00:53:27,820 --> 00:53:31,780
That's the essence of magic.
1142
00:53:31,780 --> 00:53:36,980
When the magician shows up in a reading, he indicates you have special powers, but you
1143
00:53:36,980 --> 00:53:42,540
may not realize them yet or you may not be using your powers.
1144
00:53:42,540 --> 00:53:48,620
Use your intellect, intuition, and talents as well as practical skills to manifest your
1145
00:53:48,620 --> 00:53:49,940
dreams.
1146
00:53:49,940 --> 00:53:55,540
The magician reminds you that you're constantly creating your reality and that your thoughts
1147
00:53:55,540 --> 00:53:58,460
are the four runners of manifestation.
1148
00:53:58,460 --> 00:53:59,460
Yeah.
1149
00:53:59,460 --> 00:54:02,500
So if your thoughts are all negative, you're going to manifest the negative shit.
1150
00:54:02,500 --> 00:54:03,500
Yeah.
1151
00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:05,100
That makes sense.
1152
00:54:05,100 --> 00:54:10,100
He can represent your inner guide who, if you listen carefully, will help you fulfill
1153
00:54:10,100 --> 00:54:12,420
your potential.
1154
00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:15,820
Someone needed this card before she killed her husband.
1155
00:54:15,820 --> 00:54:16,820
Probably.
1156
00:54:16,820 --> 00:54:19,660
Extra exuberant.
1157
00:54:19,660 --> 00:54:21,820
Magic is believing in yourself.
1158
00:54:21,820 --> 00:54:26,980
If you can do that, you can make anything happen.
1159
00:54:26,980 --> 00:54:28,300
Someone didn't believe in themselves.
1160
00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:29,300
Yeah.
1161
00:54:29,300 --> 00:54:30,300
Themself?
1162
00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:31,300
You know what?
1163
00:54:31,300 --> 00:54:36,420
I know because probably don't believe in yourself killing people.
1164
00:54:36,420 --> 00:54:41,300
Oh, I meant like she didn't believe she could like leave him and go out on her own and
1165
00:54:41,300 --> 00:54:46,140
your own thing instead of had to get rid of them.
1166
00:54:46,140 --> 00:54:47,140
Yeah.
1167
00:54:47,140 --> 00:54:48,140
Yeah.
1168
00:54:48,140 --> 00:54:50,220
Okay.
1169
00:54:50,220 --> 00:54:56,740
The magician reverse suggests you may be experiencing self-doubt or you can't yet see
1170
00:54:56,740 --> 00:55:01,340
the way clearly.
1171
00:55:01,340 --> 00:55:03,460
Perhaps you haven't fully developed the skills, knowledge or confidence you need to take
1172
00:55:03,460 --> 00:55:09,860
on a challenge or to follow the course you've chosen.
1173
00:55:09,860 --> 00:55:15,380
Continue strengthening your latent power and wait until the time is ripe.
1174
00:55:15,380 --> 00:55:20,500
Sometimes the magician reverse can indicate your energy is too low now to accomplish your
1175
00:55:20,500 --> 00:55:22,740
objective.
1176
00:55:22,740 --> 00:55:25,700
Interesting.
1177
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:32,020
In a reading about money, the reversed magician can represent manipulation or using underhanded
1178
00:55:32,020 --> 00:55:34,700
means for personal gains.
1179
00:55:34,700 --> 00:55:37,500
Yeah.
1180
00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:42,300
Power struggles or deception may cause losses or setbacks.
1181
00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:43,300
No shit.
1182
00:55:43,300 --> 00:55:44,300
Yikes.
1183
00:55:44,300 --> 00:55:45,300
A lot of loss.
1184
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:46,300
Yeah.
1185
00:55:46,300 --> 00:55:50,460
If the reading is about your job, watch your back.
1186
00:55:50,460 --> 00:55:54,780
Someone may be working behind the scenes to gain power or control.
1187
00:55:54,780 --> 00:56:01,820
This card can also suggest hidden factors in your workplace that you're not aware of yet.
1188
00:56:01,820 --> 00:56:05,420
Remain watchful and play your cards close to your chest.
1189
00:56:05,420 --> 00:56:06,420
Hmm.
1190
00:56:06,420 --> 00:56:07,420
Oh God.
1191
00:56:07,420 --> 00:56:11,820
I feel like it's going to be like the same type of thing with a loved one.
1192
00:56:11,820 --> 00:56:15,380
Yeah, but it hits different.
1193
00:56:15,380 --> 00:56:22,100
In a reading about love, you or a partner may be engaging in power struggles or manipulative
1194
00:56:22,100 --> 00:56:24,020
behavior.
1195
00:56:24,020 --> 00:56:30,580
This card can also represent deception or keeping secrets.
1196
00:56:30,580 --> 00:56:36,820
In some cases, the reversed magician means you're lonely and tired of a solo existence.
1197
00:56:36,820 --> 00:56:40,020
Oh, that's sad.
1198
00:56:40,020 --> 00:56:41,020
Yeah.
1199
00:56:41,020 --> 00:56:42,020
Hmm.
1200
00:56:42,020 --> 00:56:46,500
Now she really has a solo existence.
1201
00:56:46,500 --> 00:56:48,740
Yeah, you got that right.
1202
00:56:48,740 --> 00:56:49,740
Was that it?
1203
00:56:49,740 --> 00:56:50,740
Yeah, man.
1204
00:56:50,740 --> 00:56:51,740
That's it.
1205
00:56:51,740 --> 00:56:52,740
Wow, that was a good card.
1206
00:56:52,740 --> 00:56:54,660
There's not a lot I can discuss.
1207
00:56:54,660 --> 00:56:56,460
It was pretty straightforward.
1208
00:56:56,460 --> 00:56:57,460
I know.
1209
00:56:57,460 --> 00:57:01,140
I feel like we've never gotten the magician in reverse before.
1210
00:57:01,140 --> 00:57:02,140
I don't think so.
1211
00:57:02,140 --> 00:57:03,140
Yeah.
1212
00:57:03,140 --> 00:57:04,140
I didn't know.
1213
00:57:04,140 --> 00:57:07,140
It was totally negative.
1214
00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:11,140
Like one of those opposite cards that is opposite in reverse.
1215
00:57:11,140 --> 00:57:18,700
Yeah, it definitely seems more opposite than a lot of the cards can be where sometimes
1216
00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:22,820
it's just a slightly different interpretation.
1217
00:57:22,820 --> 00:57:23,820
Yeah.
1218
00:57:23,820 --> 00:57:24,820
Well, that was short.
1219
00:57:24,820 --> 00:57:27,620
Did you want me to tell my little story about my crystal bracelet?
1220
00:57:27,620 --> 00:57:28,620
Yes.
1221
00:57:28,620 --> 00:57:30,100
Unless you have anything else to...
1222
00:57:30,100 --> 00:57:31,820
No, I think, discuss.
1223
00:57:31,820 --> 00:57:33,940
I think that really tidies that up.
1224
00:57:33,940 --> 00:57:35,460
I think, you know, story time.
1225
00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:36,460
Let's do it.
1226
00:57:36,460 --> 00:57:37,460
I peek at this one.
1227
00:57:37,460 --> 00:57:40,220
Oh, she is kind of like in nature.
1228
00:57:40,220 --> 00:57:42,980
It kind of looks like a cliff on the side.
1229
00:57:42,980 --> 00:57:43,980
It does.
1230
00:57:43,980 --> 00:57:44,980
Okay.
1231
00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:46,820
I'm glad you kept feeling the cliff.
1232
00:57:46,820 --> 00:57:50,380
I'm glad I looked at the card.
1233
00:57:50,380 --> 00:57:51,900
Bracelet story time.
1234
00:57:51,900 --> 00:57:53,940
Bracelet story time.
1235
00:57:53,940 --> 00:58:00,340
So my mommy wanted to go through the veil with me so that we could get little matching bracelets,
1236
00:58:00,340 --> 00:58:01,340
love it.
1237
00:58:01,340 --> 00:58:03,940
And she really wanted tiger's eyes.
1238
00:58:03,940 --> 00:58:04,940
So we're looking around.
1239
00:58:04,940 --> 00:58:05,940
Really?
1240
00:58:05,940 --> 00:58:10,380
Originally, we were just looking for crystals, not specifically for bracelet.
1241
00:58:10,380 --> 00:58:12,140
And so we're looking for tiger's eyes.
1242
00:58:12,140 --> 00:58:14,620
And she was like, well, they're only finding what she wanted.
1243
00:58:14,620 --> 00:58:20,540
And then like made her way to the bracelets and we didn't see any tigers eye on the bracelet
1244
00:58:20,540 --> 00:58:21,540
thing.
1245
00:58:21,540 --> 00:58:22,860
So we pulled it out.
1246
00:58:22,860 --> 00:58:24,660
And Courtney was actually there at the owner.
1247
00:58:24,660 --> 00:58:25,660
She helped.
1248
00:58:25,660 --> 00:58:26,660
She was on the pod.
1249
00:58:26,660 --> 00:58:27,660
Hi, Courtney.
1250
00:58:27,660 --> 00:58:28,660
Hi, hi, hi.
1251
00:58:28,660 --> 00:58:29,660
So she was there.
1252
00:58:29,660 --> 00:58:30,660
She helped us.
1253
00:58:30,660 --> 00:58:31,660
She pulled off the bracelet thing.
1254
00:58:31,660 --> 00:58:33,740
And then we're like, do you have any tiger's eye?
1255
00:58:33,740 --> 00:58:37,860
And she was looking through them and she's like, oh, we have like a purple tiger's eye bracelet.
1256
00:58:37,860 --> 00:58:39,340
And my mom was like, oh my gosh.
1257
00:58:39,340 --> 00:58:40,340
Well, that was a thing.
1258
00:58:40,340 --> 00:58:41,340
We didn't need there.
1259
00:58:41,340 --> 00:58:42,940
And her favorite color is purple.
1260
00:58:42,940 --> 00:58:43,940
Love it.
1261
00:58:43,940 --> 00:58:44,940
Perfect.
1262
00:58:44,940 --> 00:58:46,740
And then I was like, oh, yeah, that's really cool.
1263
00:58:46,740 --> 00:58:47,980
I have a red tiger's eye.
1264
00:58:47,980 --> 00:58:51,740
Like, that's my favorite tiger's eye is my red tiger's eye.
1265
00:58:51,740 --> 00:58:54,580
And then so we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1266
00:58:54,580 --> 00:58:55,580
Love it.
1267
00:58:55,580 --> 00:58:56,580
Yeah.
1268
00:58:56,580 --> 00:59:02,220
So those are people found like our favorite color in the like one tiger's eye we were looking
1269
00:59:02,220 --> 00:59:03,720
for.
1270
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,900
And then we were looking around for just like a stone of it too.
1271
00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:09,180
And we ended up finding blue tiger's eye.
1272
00:59:09,180 --> 00:59:11,460
Oh, which is gorgeous.
1273
00:59:11,460 --> 00:59:12,460
Yes.
1274
00:59:12,460 --> 00:59:13,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1275
00:59:13,460 --> 00:59:14,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1276
00:59:14,460 --> 00:59:15,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1277
00:59:15,460 --> 00:59:16,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1278
00:59:16,460 --> 00:59:17,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1279
00:59:17,460 --> 00:59:18,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1280
00:59:18,460 --> 00:59:19,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1281
00:59:19,460 --> 00:59:20,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1282
00:59:20,460 --> 00:59:21,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1283
00:59:21,460 --> 00:59:22,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1284
00:59:22,460 --> 00:59:23,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1285
00:59:23,460 --> 00:59:24,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1286
00:59:24,460 --> 00:59:25,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1287
00:59:25,460 --> 00:59:26,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1288
00:59:26,460 --> 00:59:27,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1289
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:28,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1290
00:59:28,460 --> 00:59:43,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1291
00:59:43,460 --> 00:59:44,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1292
00:59:44,460 --> 00:59:45,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1293
00:59:45,460 --> 00:59:46,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1294
00:59:46,460 --> 00:59:47,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1295
00:59:47,460 --> 00:59:48,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1296
00:59:48,460 --> 00:59:49,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1297
00:59:49,460 --> 00:59:50,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1298
00:59:50,460 --> 00:59:51,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1299
00:59:51,460 --> 00:59:52,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1300
00:59:52,460 --> 00:59:53,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1301
00:59:53,460 --> 00:59:54,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1302
00:59:54,460 --> 00:59:55,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1303
00:59:55,460 --> 00:59:56,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1304
00:59:56,460 --> 00:59:57,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1305
00:59:57,460 --> 00:59:57,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1306
00:59:57,460 --> 00:59:58,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1307
00:59:58,460 --> 00:59:59,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1308
00:59:59,460 --> 01:00:00,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1309
01:00:00,460 --> 01:00:01,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1310
01:00:01,460 --> 01:00:02,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1311
01:00:02,460 --> 01:00:03,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1312
01:00:03,460 --> 01:00:04,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1313
01:00:04,460 --> 01:00:05,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1314
01:00:05,460 --> 01:00:06,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1315
01:00:06,460 --> 01:00:07,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1316
01:00:07,460 --> 01:00:08,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1317
01:00:08,460 --> 01:00:09,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1318
01:00:09,460 --> 01:00:10,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1319
01:00:10,460 --> 01:00:11,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1320
01:00:11,460 --> 01:00:12,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1321
01:00:12,460 --> 01:00:13,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1322
01:00:13,460 --> 01:00:28,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1323
01:00:28,460 --> 01:00:29,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1324
01:00:29,460 --> 01:00:30,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1325
01:00:30,460 --> 01:00:31,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1326
01:00:31,460 --> 01:00:32,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1327
01:00:32,460 --> 01:00:33,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1328
01:00:33,460 --> 01:00:34,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1329
01:00:34,460 --> 01:00:35,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1330
01:00:35,460 --> 01:00:36,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1331
01:00:36,460 --> 01:00:37,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1332
01:00:37,460 --> 01:00:38,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1333
01:00:38,460 --> 01:00:39,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1334
01:00:39,460 --> 01:00:40,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1335
01:00:40,460 --> 01:00:41,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1336
01:00:41,460 --> 01:00:42,460
And then we found a red tiger's eye bracelet.
1337
01:00:42,460 --> 01:00:43,460
Yeah, same.
1338
01:00:43,460 --> 01:00:45,460
So I'm obsessed with my new bracelet.
1339
01:00:45,460 --> 01:00:46,460
Yeah.
1340
01:00:46,460 --> 01:00:47,460
It's pretty.
1341
01:00:47,460 --> 01:00:48,460
Thank you.
1342
01:00:48,460 --> 01:00:51,460
I whack things with little beads all the time.
1343
01:00:51,460 --> 01:00:52,460
Oh, for sure.
1344
01:00:52,460 --> 01:00:53,460
All right.
1345
01:00:53,460 --> 01:00:59,460
Well, if you know what am I trying to say?
1346
01:00:59,460 --> 01:01:04,460
If you have any other interpretations for this card as it relates to the story, or maybe
1347
01:01:04,460 --> 01:01:08,460
as you're listening and you're like, oh man, that relates to my life.
1348
01:01:08,460 --> 01:01:09,460
Is this card for me?
1349
01:01:09,460 --> 01:01:12,460
It's card for me.
1350
01:01:12,460 --> 01:01:13,460
Could be.
1351
01:01:13,460 --> 01:01:14,460
Could be.
1352
01:01:14,460 --> 01:01:15,460
Could be.
1353
01:01:15,460 --> 01:01:16,460
If you think it is, probably is.
1354
01:01:16,460 --> 01:01:17,460
Yeah.
1355
01:01:17,460 --> 01:01:18,460
Yeah.
1356
01:01:18,460 --> 01:01:20,460
No, it's all of the interpretations.
1357
01:01:20,460 --> 01:01:26,460
It's like, you're just kind of meant to take what is useful to you.
1358
01:01:26,460 --> 01:01:28,460
What feels applicable to you.
1359
01:01:28,460 --> 01:01:29,460
So, yeah.
1360
01:01:29,460 --> 01:01:30,460
Yeah.
1361
01:01:30,460 --> 01:01:31,460
Oh, you know what?
1362
01:01:31,460 --> 01:01:33,460
I do kind of have a fun story, actually.
1363
01:01:33,460 --> 01:01:34,460
I knew it.
1364
01:01:34,460 --> 01:01:36,460
I was stalling because I knew you had something.
1365
01:01:36,460 --> 01:01:37,460
Yeah.
1366
01:01:37,460 --> 01:01:41,460
I mean, I've spent a lot of time looking at like catering menus and stuff.
1367
01:01:41,460 --> 01:01:44,460
And that's not very exciting to share.
1368
01:01:44,460 --> 01:01:45,460
Unfortunately.
1369
01:01:45,460 --> 01:01:50,460
But I got a text from our friend.
1370
01:01:50,460 --> 01:01:52,460
I referred to his.
1371
01:01:52,460 --> 01:01:53,460
Windsor.
1372
01:01:53,460 --> 01:01:54,460
Hmm.
1373
01:01:54,460 --> 01:01:55,460
Hi.
1374
01:01:55,460 --> 01:01:57,460
From Yeeled crime.
1375
01:01:57,460 --> 01:01:58,460
And she.
1376
01:01:58,460 --> 01:02:00,460
We'd sent her a deck.
1377
01:02:00,460 --> 01:02:06,460
Oh, and she was asking about kind of what she needed to do.
1378
01:02:06,460 --> 01:02:11,460
To set up and like how to go about doing her first reading for someone.
1379
01:02:11,460 --> 01:02:13,460
I don't know if it was for herself.
1380
01:02:13,460 --> 01:02:14,460
I.
1381
01:02:14,460 --> 01:02:19,460
The way that she ordered it, I presume it was for someone else.
1382
01:02:19,460 --> 01:02:21,460
So I kind of talked her through.
1383
01:02:21,460 --> 01:02:26,460
I was like, I sent you that deck cleanse because obviously I'm not an animal.
1384
01:02:26,460 --> 01:02:33,460
I pre cleanse all of the decks that we've sent to like any of our, you know, podcast friends.
1385
01:02:33,460 --> 01:02:36,460
Yeah.
1386
01:02:36,460 --> 01:02:39,460
So I just let her know you know, you can kind of do whatever you want.
1387
01:02:39,460 --> 01:02:45,460
It's all just supposed to be, you know, kind of intuitive and have fun with it.
1388
01:02:45,460 --> 01:02:55,460
So you can do anything from just a single card draw to we like to, I like to do the, the past present future.
1389
01:02:55,460 --> 01:02:58,460
But you can do like I think the Celtic cross.
1390
01:02:58,460 --> 01:02:59,460
What is that?
1391
01:02:59,460 --> 01:03:01,460
10 or is it 12 cards?
1392
01:03:01,460 --> 01:03:03,460
I mean, it's massive.
1393
01:03:03,460 --> 01:03:04,460
It's massive.
1394
01:03:04,460 --> 01:03:10,460
And having done one a few months back for someone, I can tell you that it's like that's a lengthy
1395
01:03:10,460 --> 01:03:11,460
reading.
1396
01:03:11,460 --> 01:03:12,460
It is.
1397
01:03:12,460 --> 01:03:17,460
And most of the little books have like, especially those three like setups in there to show you
1398
01:03:17,460 --> 01:03:20,460
like what they mean or just a quick Google.
1399
01:03:20,460 --> 01:03:21,460
Yeah.
1400
01:03:21,460 --> 01:03:26,460
I mean, you can find all different types of tarot spreads if you really make a wrong.
1401
01:03:26,460 --> 01:03:27,460
Yeah.
1402
01:03:27,460 --> 01:03:32,460
And I feel like you want it to be more guided than there's a ton of them out there.
1403
01:03:32,460 --> 01:03:33,460
But yeah, yeah.
1404
01:03:33,460 --> 01:03:36,460
And I've probably said it before, kind of like an easy way.
1405
01:03:36,460 --> 01:03:41,460
If you feel like you need to cleanse it or whatever, I just cleanse while I'm shuffling.
1406
01:03:41,460 --> 01:03:48,460
And like my first couple of shuffles I'm thinking about just cleansing the energy out of the deck as it flips around.
1407
01:03:48,460 --> 01:03:52,460
And then I shuffle the energy I want back into it.
1408
01:03:52,460 --> 01:03:53,460
Yeah.
1409
01:03:53,460 --> 01:03:55,460
Because I am a lazy ass which and that's what I do.
1410
01:03:55,460 --> 01:03:56,460
Yeah.
1411
01:03:56,460 --> 01:04:01,460
Some people are green witches, some people are lazy ass witches.
1412
01:04:01,460 --> 01:04:02,460
Yeah.
1413
01:04:02,460 --> 01:04:03,460
Yeah.
1414
01:04:03,460 --> 01:04:09,460
It's funny because that was kind of the last thing that I had said to Lindsay.
1415
01:04:09,460 --> 01:04:13,460
I just said, you know, it's, I sent it to you pre cleanse.
1416
01:04:13,460 --> 01:04:19,460
But when you feel like it is maybe ready for a cleanse and it's just sort of like a feeling that you might get.
1417
01:04:19,460 --> 01:04:23,460
There's not like, you do it every 30 days or yeah.
1418
01:04:23,460 --> 01:04:25,460
There's not, there's no like hard rules.
1419
01:04:25,460 --> 01:04:40,460
I was like, you know, it can be a little bit intimidating when you start like kind of in your baby witch days or baby terro days looking online because there are some people that have boy, did they have opinions?
1420
01:04:40,460 --> 01:04:41,460
Yes.
1421
01:04:41,460 --> 01:04:46,460
They have opinions like all of us have assholes, especially TikTok.
1422
01:04:46,460 --> 01:04:47,460
Yeah.
1423
01:04:47,460 --> 01:04:53,460
But I'm like, I just don't really subscribe to a lot of the hard and fast rule type.
1424
01:04:53,460 --> 01:04:54,460
We don't like rules.
1425
01:04:54,460 --> 01:04:55,460
We've covered this.
1426
01:04:55,460 --> 01:04:56,460
Yeah.
1427
01:04:56,460 --> 01:04:57,460
I feel, yeah.
1428
01:04:57,460 --> 01:04:59,460
I just don't think it's necessary in most cases.
1429
01:04:59,460 --> 01:05:05,460
I think, you know, probably there are some things for sure stick, you know, stick clear of.
1430
01:05:05,460 --> 01:05:15,460
But I just said, you know, when you're ready for a cleanse, let us know because we have several really good options for how to cleanse it.
1431
01:05:15,460 --> 01:05:18,460
And you can just figure out what works for you.
1432
01:05:18,460 --> 01:05:19,460
Yeah.
1433
01:05:19,460 --> 01:05:28,460
Because there are a number of different ways that you can do a cleansing type ritual, whether it's for terro cards or for something else.
1434
01:05:28,460 --> 01:05:29,460
Anything.
1435
01:05:29,460 --> 01:05:29,460
Yeah.
1436
01:05:29,460 --> 01:05:31,460
And if you like a rule, follow it.
1437
01:05:31,460 --> 01:05:32,460
Yeah.
1438
01:05:32,460 --> 01:05:34,460
I'm not here to say you can't follow rules.
1439
01:05:34,460 --> 01:05:35,460
Oh, absolutely.
1440
01:05:35,460 --> 01:05:39,460
Sometimes I read a rule and I'm really like, okay, yeah, that makes sense to me.
1441
01:05:39,460 --> 01:05:40,460
Yeah, but I do it.
1442
01:05:40,460 --> 01:05:41,460
Yeah.
1443
01:05:41,460 --> 01:05:43,460
So really just do whatever you want.
1444
01:05:43,460 --> 01:05:44,460
Yeah.
1445
01:05:44,460 --> 01:05:50,460
Just be who you want, do what you want and please be who you want to be.
1446
01:05:50,460 --> 01:05:51,460
Yeah.
1447
01:05:51,460 --> 01:05:55,460
We don't like people who be who they don't want to be.
1448
01:05:55,460 --> 01:05:56,460
You know what?
1449
01:05:56,460 --> 01:05:57,460
I'm sorry.
1450
01:05:57,460 --> 01:06:02,460
We just don't like that journey for someone who feels like they have to hide who they truly are.
1451
01:06:02,460 --> 01:06:08,460
I am channeling Lady Gaga because I just watched her concert on HBO last night and it was fucking amazing.
1452
01:06:08,460 --> 01:06:13,460
And so I'm just like, view you are.
1453
01:06:13,460 --> 01:06:14,460
I love you.
1454
01:06:14,460 --> 01:06:15,460
Oh, you monster.
1455
01:06:15,460 --> 01:06:16,460
I love her.
1456
01:06:16,460 --> 01:06:17,460
She is awesome.
1457
01:06:17,460 --> 01:06:18,460
Yeah.
1458
01:06:18,460 --> 01:06:19,460
She is awesome.
1459
01:06:19,460 --> 01:06:22,460
Did you know that she was also in the movie A Star Is Born?
1460
01:06:22,460 --> 01:06:24,460
Are you kidding me?
1461
01:06:24,460 --> 01:06:30,460
She literally sang shallow at her concert and I bald my fucking eyes out.
1462
01:06:30,460 --> 01:06:32,460
I was not expecting that.
1463
01:06:32,460 --> 01:06:34,460
Do you remember why I'm saying that?
1464
01:06:34,460 --> 01:06:35,460
No, I don't.
1465
01:06:35,460 --> 01:06:38,460
I was not smart as.
1466
01:06:38,460 --> 01:06:50,460
Do you remember I was telling you that we were watching the preview of A Star Is Born and all of a sudden she comes on and I was saying something about like, oh, you know, Lady Gaga blah blah blah.
1467
01:06:50,460 --> 01:06:53,460
And Chris goes, what?
1468
01:06:53,460 --> 01:06:57,460
Like, oh, he had no idea that Lady Gaga.
1469
01:06:57,460 --> 01:06:58,460
Lady Gaga.
1470
01:06:58,460 --> 01:06:59,460
Gaga.
1471
01:06:59,460 --> 01:07:00,460
Some would say.
1472
01:07:00,460 --> 01:07:10,460
He had no idea she was in that movie and he was like, yeah, I've never seen it and I've never, I don't think he'd even seen the trailer.
1473
01:07:10,460 --> 01:07:13,460
And I was just like, that's just.
1474
01:07:13,460 --> 01:07:17,460
Yeah, I've seen that movie exactly one times.
1475
01:07:17,460 --> 01:07:18,460
Because it's too sad.
1476
01:07:18,460 --> 01:07:20,460
I will never watch it again.
1477
01:07:20,460 --> 01:07:22,460
Oh, I will totally watch it again.
1478
01:07:22,460 --> 01:07:26,460
Just like that fucking wrestling movie I was telling you about the iron claw.
1479
01:07:26,460 --> 01:07:28,460
Yeah, that sounds too sad.
1480
01:07:28,460 --> 01:07:33,460
Literally the saddest movie I've ever seen in my entire life.
1481
01:07:33,460 --> 01:07:36,460
I just wanted to see Zach up on that fake it.
1482
01:07:36,460 --> 01:07:40,460
I feel like there's a lot of other films where you can accomplish that goal.
1483
01:07:40,460 --> 01:07:46,460
And it had the guy who's in Murder at the end of the world.
1484
01:07:46,460 --> 01:07:48,460
He's in it too.
1485
01:07:48,460 --> 01:07:51,460
Okay, now I see why you really watch the movie.
1486
01:07:51,460 --> 01:07:53,460
And that was worse.
1487
01:07:53,460 --> 01:07:58,460
I can see that.
1488
01:07:58,460 --> 01:08:00,460
It was really hard movie to watch.
1489
01:08:00,460 --> 01:08:01,460
It was good.
1490
01:08:01,460 --> 01:08:03,460
I'll never watch it again.
1491
01:08:03,460 --> 01:08:06,460
Just think about it every day and cry myself.
1492
01:08:06,460 --> 01:08:10,460
I mean, she says that now, but you know, we'll see.
1493
01:08:10,460 --> 01:08:12,460
You're going to make me watch it later.
1494
01:08:12,460 --> 01:08:14,460
We're going to watch it again.
1495
01:08:14,460 --> 01:08:16,460
Because I don't want to watch it by myself.
1496
01:08:16,460 --> 01:08:18,460
You have to watch it alone.
1497
01:08:18,460 --> 01:08:20,460
Do you like crying in front of other people?
1498
01:08:20,460 --> 01:08:21,460
Because you can't hold it in.
1499
01:08:21,460 --> 01:08:22,460
I'm giving it a fuck.
1500
01:08:22,460 --> 01:08:23,460
I can't.
1501
01:08:23,460 --> 01:08:24,460
I can't.
1502
01:08:24,460 --> 01:08:29,460
I mean, I know you're skilled at disassociation like me, but.
1503
01:08:29,460 --> 01:08:33,460
No, honestly, I invented it.
1504
01:08:33,460 --> 01:08:38,460
I perfected it and now give experts seminars on it.
1505
01:08:38,460 --> 01:08:41,460
I probably think if there was people in the room, I couldn't have cried that much.
1506
01:08:41,460 --> 01:08:42,460
But I was alone.
1507
01:08:42,460 --> 01:08:45,460
So I just like, let it let it lose.
1508
01:08:45,460 --> 01:08:47,460
Just made a good cry though.
1509
01:08:47,460 --> 01:08:53,460
But I feel like I would just cry in front of you and probably Chris, just like as if nobody
1510
01:08:53,460 --> 01:08:54,460
was there just about.
1511
01:08:54,460 --> 01:08:55,460
Yeah.
1512
01:08:55,460 --> 01:08:56,460
Yeah.
1513
01:08:56,460 --> 01:08:57,460
Yeah.
1514
01:08:57,460 --> 01:08:58,460
We cry in front of each other.
1515
01:08:58,460 --> 01:08:59,460
That's all we did.
1516
01:08:59,460 --> 01:09:00,460
All right.
1517
01:09:00,460 --> 01:09:02,460
Well, I think it's normal and healthy.
1518
01:09:02,460 --> 01:09:03,460
Yeah.
1519
01:09:03,460 --> 01:09:04,460
So get over it.
1520
01:09:04,460 --> 01:09:06,460
We've rambled a lot.
1521
01:09:06,460 --> 01:09:07,460
Yeah.
1522
01:09:07,460 --> 01:09:08,460
There we are.
1523
01:09:08,460 --> 01:09:09,460
Should we go?
1524
01:09:09,460 --> 01:09:10,460
I guess.
1525
01:09:10,460 --> 01:09:11,460
Yeah.
1526
01:09:11,460 --> 01:09:12,460
All right.
1527
01:09:12,460 --> 01:09:13,460
Let's go.
1528
01:09:13,460 --> 01:09:14,460
Bye.
1529
01:09:14,460 --> 01:09:15,460
Oh.
1530
01:09:15,460 --> 01:09:17,460
I was so confused.
1531
01:09:17,460 --> 01:09:20,460
I'm just going to have a creepy ass day.
1532
01:09:20,460 --> 01:09:21,460
See you next Tuesday.
1533
01:09:21,460 --> 01:09:27,460
Or maybe sooner or just depends on who you are, what you do.
1534
01:09:27,460 --> 01:09:29,460
Defer and how much you pay us.
1535
01:09:29,460 --> 01:09:30,460
Different stiff.
1536
01:09:30,460 --> 01:09:31,460
Yeah.
1537
01:09:31,460 --> 01:09:40,460
Well, we will see you next Tuesday as long as you do not attempt to frame your husband's murder.
1538
01:09:40,460 --> 01:09:42,460
Wait, what are you trying to say?
1539
01:09:42,460 --> 01:09:47,460
I can't evidence for your husband's murder and then end up hurting yourself and then come
1540
01:09:47,460 --> 01:09:50,460
up with a crazy story that makes sense.
1541
01:09:50,460 --> 01:09:52,460
And then everyone's just sad.
1542
01:09:52,460 --> 01:10:00,460
If you're going to try to foil the detectives, like you should probably frame an actual person.
1543
01:10:00,460 --> 01:10:01,460
Yeah.
1544
01:10:01,460 --> 01:10:02,460
Not just some random guys.
1545
01:10:02,460 --> 01:10:03,460
Not in five days.
1546
01:10:03,460 --> 01:10:04,460
Not in five days.
1547
01:10:04,460 --> 01:10:05,460
Didn't exist.
1548
01:10:05,460 --> 01:10:06,460
Yeah.
1549
01:10:06,460 --> 01:10:08,460
Who placed zero calls to your house?
1550
01:10:08,460 --> 01:10:09,460
I mean, I just can't.
1551
01:10:09,460 --> 01:10:10,460
Get a phone.
1552
01:10:10,460 --> 01:10:11,460
Come on.
1553
01:10:11,460 --> 01:10:12,460
Jesus.
1554
01:10:12,460 --> 01:10:13,460
Yeah.
1555
01:10:13,460 --> 01:10:14,460
Yeah.
1556
01:10:14,460 --> 01:10:16,460
Any hose all right.
1557
01:10:16,460 --> 01:10:17,460
Bye.
1558
01:10:17,460 --> 01:10:18,460
Bye Dave.
1559
01:10:18,460 --> 01:10:19,460
Bye.
1560
01:10:19,460 --> 01:10:21,760
(laughs)
1561
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:22,760
- You did it. (pnwhauntsandhomicides.com)
