Episode 159: Proto Person

1 00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:06,240 Adam Curry: Casting 2.0 for December 15 2023, episode 159 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,430 Well, hohoho Hello, everybody. Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 We 3 00:00:14,430 --> 00:00:17,760 are the only boardroom in the business that has a naughty and 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,240 nice list. That's right. Here's what we discussed the actual 5 00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:25,050 future of podcasting did now what's happening here, we're all 6 00:00:25,050 --> 00:00:29,040 about it. Podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org And of course, 7 00:00:29,190 --> 00:00:32,790 everything we discussed in the open on podcast index dot 8 00:00:32,790 --> 00:00:35,310 social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill 9 00:00:35,310 --> 00:00:38,760 Country. And in Alabama, the man who loves streaming video to an 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,430 audience of millions say hello to my friend on the other end 11 00:00:41,430 --> 00:00:45,450 live demo, Mr. Jones. 12 00:00:46,710 --> 00:00:50,340 Dave Jones: Okay, right off the bat. I have have a have a bone 13 00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:51,750 to pick with you wants, 14 00:00:51,780 --> 00:00:53,520 Adam Curry: what do I do? What do I want? 15 00:00:53,550 --> 00:01:00,270 Dave Jones: What do I do now to streaming video? Yes. You hit me 16 00:01:00,270 --> 00:01:02,370 with a disproportionate use of gifts. 17 00:01:03,659 --> 00:01:05,879 Adam Curry: Because I was hoping it would arrive before the 18 00:01:05,879 --> 00:01:06,389 boardroom. 19 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,130 Dave Jones: I gave you some DVD. Well, no, no, 20 00:01:11,130 --> 00:01:15,720 Adam Curry: hold on a second. I had forgotten that we that you'd 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,720 like the only guy in my life that I exchanged gifts with 22 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:22,380 then. And I think what I gave you last year last year, I gave 23 00:01:22,380 --> 00:01:26,310 you a Oculus card? Yeah, the cold cart. Yeah, the cold cart. 24 00:01:26,820 --> 00:01:29,940 And and so Dave's like oh yeah, I sent you a Christmas present. 25 00:01:29,940 --> 00:01:33,570 And it's like first of December. I'm like, What I haven't even 26 00:01:33,570 --> 00:01:36,090 gotten to my list or anything yet. And I don't have all the 27 00:01:36,090 --> 00:01:40,080 gifts my wife I'm like this. I'm on it your way your way on it. 28 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:44,460 And so and it's not like you didn't just give me DVDs. These 29 00:01:44,460 --> 00:01:49,860 were very meaningful DVDs. And a very nice card or slash Amazon 30 00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:54,720 note. To go with it. And and I was really touched by it. And so 31 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,860 I'm like, Oh man, what am I gonna give Dave? How did I do? 32 00:01:58,890 --> 00:01:59,670 How did I do? 33 00:02:01,770 --> 00:02:05,160 Dave Jones: You blue. This is disproportionate completely 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:06,030 disproportionate? It's 35 00:02:06,030 --> 00:02:08,670 Adam Curry: not it's not because I want I want to give you 36 00:02:08,670 --> 00:02:12,150 something that you absolutely did not need. But yet, if you 37 00:02:12,150 --> 00:02:12,870 need it. 38 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,120 Dave Jones: You get you got me the Elgato stream deck. 39 00:02:19,139 --> 00:02:21,599 Adam Curry: Mark Two I hope I hope it's the I 40 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:23,519 Dave Jones: don't know I don't see a mark on it. But I'm 41 00:02:23,519 --> 00:02:26,999 looking I'm gonna say as Mark to I don't even know what to do 42 00:02:26,999 --> 00:02:30,059 with it. But even all the cool note was like this is what all 43 00:02:30,059 --> 00:02:31,019 the cool kids use. 44 00:02:32,250 --> 00:02:35,640 Adam Curry: All the cool kids I know use those legato stream 45 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:39,840 tech for the streaming because you can use start your stream it 46 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,680 can rearrange your cameras, you know, you can flip your camera 47 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,360 on and all that stuff. 48 00:02:45,930 --> 00:02:49,710 Dave Jones: Yeah, like it's good. Thank you, brother. Oh, 49 00:02:49,709 --> 00:02:52,049 Adam Curry: of course of Thank you. Merry Christmas gift. Merry 50 00:02:52,049 --> 00:02:54,269 Christmas. And I expect you to set it up, 51 00:02:55,050 --> 00:02:57,840 Dave Jones: though. I will I will. I've will absolutely do 52 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,900 that it get a I got it last night. So here's what happened. 53 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:05,130 I got it. I went out on the front porch. And it was like a 54 00:03:05,130 --> 00:03:09,180 box. I started opening it up and I'm like, wait a second. If this 55 00:03:09,180 --> 00:03:14,100 is something that my wife got, for me, I can't do this. And so 56 00:03:14,100 --> 00:03:19,530 I like you know, I'm like put it down. Cut the cut the lid. And 57 00:03:19,530 --> 00:03:22,950 then I'm like peeking in there to see what color the box isn't 58 00:03:22,950 --> 00:03:27,420 trying to be like. And I'm like, Wait, this is a weird bottle. 59 00:03:27,450 --> 00:03:29,730 This is surely enough. I asked her I'm like did you get 60 00:03:29,730 --> 00:03:36,810 something for me? She's like, No I'm like, What is this and if 61 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,230 you had a nice notice such as just such a nice such a nice 62 00:03:40,230 --> 00:03:41,040 gift. Thank you brother. 63 00:03:41,279 --> 00:03:44,909 Adam Curry: Know you're more than welcome. And I'm curious. I 64 00:03:44,909 --> 00:03:48,419 think it should work with all kinds of different OSs but I'm 65 00:03:48,419 --> 00:03:53,219 sure Windows is whatever you're running your your OBS on Linux 66 00:03:53,219 --> 00:03:56,489 baby Ubuntu though really? I don't know if if it has a boon 67 00:03:56,489 --> 00:03:58,499 to stuff I don't know. Well, this 68 00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:00,300 Dave Jones: legitimately we were talking about this before the 69 00:04:00,300 --> 00:04:03,060 show I've got building Windows box. Yeah. 70 00:04:03,150 --> 00:04:04,530 Adam Curry: Now just for the stream deck. 71 00:04:06,389 --> 00:04:08,399 Dave Jones: And for and for the road because you know, it's 72 00:04:08,429 --> 00:04:12,899 crappy with Ubuntu. So yeah, this time next week, I will have 73 00:04:13,289 --> 00:04:15,599 our have a fat rig. Fat 74 00:04:15,599 --> 00:04:18,359 Adam Curry: rig. It's Yes. Supposedly, you can use it's 75 00:04:18,359 --> 00:04:21,239 like, you can use it for all kinds of stuff from macro. We 76 00:04:21,239 --> 00:04:23,789 build macros. It has like a whole app store. 77 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,840 Dave Jones: feature and it's got so many days got a lot of 78 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:32,010 buttons. Lots of buzzer grim button on there. I don't know 79 00:04:32,010 --> 00:04:32,490 what you would do. 80 00:04:34,530 --> 00:04:36,600 Adam Curry: I think you can change those buttons. That's the 81 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:42,720 whole point is you can go to the the stream deck App Store. That 82 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,520 fat rig Yeah, exactly what Oh, 83 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:45,600 Dave Jones: they got an app. So they 84 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,460 Adam Curry: have an app store. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I 85 00:04:47,460 --> 00:04:50,190 Dave Jones: should put a podcast index app on the stream deck App 86 00:04:50,190 --> 00:04:50,790 Store. Yeah. 87 00:04:50,970 --> 00:04:53,910 Adam Curry: Why not? Might as well as you can. I don't know 88 00:04:53,910 --> 00:04:57,030 what it would do. But it would look cool. It's good to be in an 89 00:04:57,030 --> 00:04:58,830 app store. The only App Store will be in 90 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,750 Dave Jones: I know what it would do it would it would overlay to 91 00:05:03,750 --> 00:05:06,750 hell a pad various brands on the screen. 92 00:05:06,780 --> 00:05:10,350 Adam Curry: Yeah, there you go. Now you're talking. See this is 93 00:05:10,350 --> 00:05:14,310 a business expense now. No, no, that's not a business expense 94 00:05:14,340 --> 00:05:19,980 that talked about it. That is a Yeah, okay. No, I think we 95 00:05:19,980 --> 00:05:22,500 already just established it was a Christmas gift. 96 00:05:22,950 --> 00:05:23,580 Dave Jones: Thank you brother. 97 00:05:23,610 --> 00:05:26,100 Adam Curry: Yeah, no of course man. Thank you. I love my DVDs. 98 00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:31,680 i i And thank you for the for pre ripping the MP force to me I 99 00:05:32,430 --> 00:05:37,680 on my I set up on my What is it called? On my start nine. They 100 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,930 have like an open source. Video management it's like Plex only 101 00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:46,230 it's open source. I think it's called jiggy with it or 102 00:05:46,230 --> 00:05:54,270 something jellyfish. Jellyfish. So I've jellyfish. Yeah, so I 103 00:05:54,270 --> 00:05:59,040 put I put it on there and and started streaming it I the way 104 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,350 the start the start nine still doesn't have what they call 105 00:06:01,350 --> 00:06:05,640 clean net. It's all tore still. So I can it won't connect to the 106 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,880 Roku yet, but that's coming soon with their version four. I love 107 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,180 that, that start nine best thing ever. I gotta say this other 108 00:06:12,180 --> 00:06:17,400 story. Okay, so I'm on the X, you know, formerly known as 109 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,830 Twitter, you have to say that. And, and I see this, this box 110 00:06:22,830 --> 00:06:26,610 called it's called Future bit. Have you heard of this thing? 111 00:06:28,650 --> 00:06:31,020 Dave Jones: I'm gonna say no. Okay, so 112 00:06:31,020 --> 00:06:37,200 Adam Curry: it's like a desktop cube. And, and supposedly it 113 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:43,350 says 10 Tera. Hash. To silent. This is the big thing silent, 114 00:06:43,620 --> 00:06:50,640 full Bitcoin node and miner made in the USA. So 115 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,780 Dave Jones: let me start with what? I'm not familiar with 116 00:06:54,780 --> 00:06:57,330 current, like hash rates and that kind of thing. What where 117 00:06:57,330 --> 00:06:59,490 does that rank? And how big is that? 118 00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:02,880 Adam Curry: To give me an idea I have. I have two s nines that 119 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,870 have been running for a year now in the house. And I think 120 00:07:06,870 --> 00:07:14,400 together they do about 17 Tera hash. But that's that. And so 121 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:20,820 that's 600 watts. And this thing is supposed to do 10 At 300 122 00:07:20,820 --> 00:07:24,240 watts. And so now you're literally into the calculation 123 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,800 of money. So these, so these two miners, with today's prices, 124 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,400 they're doing anywhere between three and $5 a day for me. And 125 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,790 I'm on a pool, right? I'm on the brains pool or whatever. And so 126 00:07:35,790 --> 00:07:38,040 this thing, you can make your own pool, you could run it 127 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,310 standalone and just hope for a lucky shot foot should be funny. 128 00:07:42,690 --> 00:07:44,040 Dave Jones: does it connect to ocean? 129 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,010 Adam Curry: I know I really don't know. But here's what 130 00:07:47,010 --> 00:07:51,330 happens. So I just liked that. It's like the Apollo two. It's 131 00:07:51,330 --> 00:07:55,590 their new rig. So I just hit the like button. I get a DM Hi, I'm 132 00:07:55,590 --> 00:07:59,130 the CEO. I want to send you one. I'm like sweet 133 00:08:01,530 --> 00:08:06,150 Dave Jones: Yeah. The answer is yes. Yes. 134 00:08:06,180 --> 00:08:08,640 Adam Curry: I will review it for you. Don't worry. I haven't. It 135 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,330 hasn't hasn't showed up yet. But so yeah, I was feeling pretty 136 00:08:12,330 --> 00:08:13,200 good about that. 137 00:08:13,230 --> 00:08:15,870 Dave Jones: 10 Tera hash at 300 watts. I mean, you're talking 138 00:08:15,870 --> 00:08:21,240 about half the power with you know, with 75% of the ASHRAE 139 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,360 that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. 140 00:08:25,110 --> 00:08:27,060 Adam Curry: That's made in America. They have their own 141 00:08:27,090 --> 00:08:31,080 ASIC. I don't know just the whole like the whole idea. Is 142 00:08:31,110 --> 00:08:31,710 like a 143 00:08:33,210 --> 00:08:35,460 Dave Jones: Is it like a thing that has like a management 144 00:08:35,460 --> 00:08:38,520 interface where you can like just plug it in and then get 145 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:38,970 into 146 00:08:40,170 --> 00:08:46,230 Adam Curry: you can have that I lose you there. Boy, you went? 147 00:08:46,500 --> 00:08:59,100 You went Zippy zappy Hello. Hello, Dave. J is not here Do 148 00:08:59,100 --> 00:09:03,240 you guys still hear me right? Still on the stream 149 00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:12,030 Okay, so it must have been Dave let me disconnect. See if you 150 00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:19,110 reconnect I can reconnect him restore There you go. You there 151 00:09:19,260 --> 00:09:22,350 Oh, yeah, I'm here wow, you were gone. You all you want Merton 152 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:28,620 and then you've got Yeah, you've just gone okay. You were asking 153 00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:31,170 about if he's had a management interface and I was going to say 154 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:37,680 it's obviously it's a full on Linux desktop computer with USB 155 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:41,850 ports everything is supposedly quiet which I mean if you those 156 00:09:41,850 --> 00:09:44,400 s nines are in the garage I can't have them in the house. 157 00:09:45,180 --> 00:09:46,290 Dave Jones: Oh yeah, those things are loud. 158 00:09:47,610 --> 00:09:50,520 Adam Curry: So empty Yeah, just so it does have a managed but 159 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,160 you can it's plug and play you plug it in turn on it'll start 160 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,040 mining but there's an interface you can you can connect to so it 161 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,520 does have a I guess has a web server in there. But it's it's a 162 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:00,840 full on desktop machine. 163 00:10:01,590 --> 00:10:05,880 Dave Jones: The last the last miners I had were had to think 164 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,530 they may have been like s sevens or something. That was right. I 165 00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:13,410 don't even know if that's right. Because it was, it was shortly 166 00:10:13,410 --> 00:10:17,880 maybe a year or two after the transition really happened. GPUs 167 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,850 to ASICs. Right. So I use the funds that are mined from, from 168 00:10:23,850 --> 00:10:28,950 GPUs to buy. Yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty profitable 169 00:10:29,130 --> 00:10:32,430 at first and then and then it just went down. You know, like 170 00:10:32,430 --> 00:10:35,880 it was slowly got outmoded. I ended up just, I ended up 171 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,980 trashing them because they were so far out of date. 172 00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:41,550 Adam Curry: I mean, the S nines are out of date, too. I mean, 173 00:10:41,550 --> 00:10:44,460 what is it s 19 is what people are using these were given to me 174 00:10:44,460 --> 00:10:47,970 as well. Now they're refurbished, and I just put them 175 00:10:47,970 --> 00:10:50,820 in the in the garage, keeps the garage nice and nice and toasty 176 00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:52,440 during the winter. I 177 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,250 Dave Jones: had heard the day that AntMiner was like, going 178 00:10:56,250 --> 00:11:00,000 Adam Curry: out of business. And yeah, I don't know. Is that 179 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,760 still the case? I have no idea. I mean, 180 00:11:03,210 --> 00:11:05,430 Dave Jones: we're like the only game in town for a while it's up 181 00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:06,000 and down. 182 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,530 Adam Curry: You know, it'd be you know, it all depends on the 183 00:11:07,530 --> 00:11:11,190 price and the hat and the difficulty and then they 184 00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:14,460 overestimate or under estimate. I don't know. I really don't 185 00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:17,850 know. Yeah, I really don't understand it. But I just think 186 00:11:17,850 --> 00:11:21,000 it's cool that every day I'm like, oh, there's there's $3 Oh, 187 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,870 that's cool. I just I printed money in my garage. And Texas 188 00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:30,000 prices. It's profitable. by little by little bit. 189 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,770 Dave Jones: Yeah, because y'all got y'all have y'all have we got 190 00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:38,040 a late Yeah, decent power when it's not an ice storm. 191 00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:41,760 Adam Curry: That has nothing to do with our grid. That's Austin. 192 00:11:43,380 --> 00:11:47,460 Dave Jones: Prices, decent prices. Nice storm you're gonna 193 00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:48,510 pay $20,000 194 00:11:48,990 --> 00:11:52,770 Adam Curry: for a minute. For your minor. For minor. Yes. 195 00:11:53,070 --> 00:11:55,770 Well, speaking of such I'm going to declare it right now while 196 00:11:55,770 --> 00:11:59,220 you're ready, is I'm going to say and I have some standing in 197 00:11:59,220 --> 00:12:01,830 the podcast area. I am officially declaring this 198 00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:04,050 podcast winter. 199 00:12:06,390 --> 00:12:08,550 Dave Jones: Oh, sweet, okay. It's an efficiently 200 00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:10,620 Adam Curry: podcast winter. I've been through one of these 201 00:12:10,620 --> 00:12:15,690 before. The podcast windows a very bad podcast winter of 2008. 202 00:12:16,530 --> 00:12:20,640 When we were riding high, everyone was loving it. VC money 203 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,110 was flowing. Everybody was happy and jacked. We had advertisers 204 00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:28,920 it was woohoo. So great. And then oh, no, we got Twitter, 205 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,640 Facebook, YouTube. Hello, everybody better do video. If 206 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,400 you're not doing video, you're gonna suck. You're going to be 207 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,810 left behind. That was the first podcast winter. Does 208 00:12:39,810 --> 00:12:42,570 Dave Jones: this. Is this similar to a dark winter? 209 00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:46,950 Adam Curry: No, because that's where everybody dies. Their head 210 00:12:46,950 --> 00:12:50,520 hurts. It is similar to an AI winter which I'm predicting for 211 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,600 next year. But this is the podcast winter we are right in 212 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,100 the middle of it. I've been listening to so much obfuscated 213 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:05,280 lies before futzing around with language about what's really 214 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,390 going on. I didn't clip anything. But I mean, I was 215 00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:14,670 surprised I was really surprised to hear on a show prep podcast 216 00:13:14,670 --> 00:13:19,320 weekly review. James was kind of attributing twits going, you 217 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,760 know, you know, firings and canceling shows to Leo being 218 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,940 old. And and the same voice is being on the show. I'm like, 219 00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:29,850 what is that? That's bullcrap, though, 220 00:13:30,930 --> 00:13:33,810 Dave Jones: said that Steve Gibson, then the example he 221 00:13:33,810 --> 00:13:35,250 used. That's the one 222 00:13:35,250 --> 00:13:39,900 Adam Curry: I'm most comfortable shows. Exactly. Exactly. Now, 223 00:13:39,930 --> 00:13:42,540 it's not because they didn't innovate. It's not because Leo 224 00:13:42,540 --> 00:13:46,470 doesn't understand the podcast business. Well, yeah, that is so 225 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:48,930 because I don't think he's had anything to do with the business 226 00:13:48,930 --> 00:13:53,070 side. I'm sure his his wife has been doing that. But he's been 227 00:13:53,070 --> 00:13:57,720 doing video from day one. It's not about that people want video 228 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,470 he did all their stuff is shared on YouTube. So it's not that No, 229 00:14:01,770 --> 00:14:04,590 I listened to the media roundtable. And it was pretty 230 00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:09,210 clear. They're just like, podcasting is out of favor. It's 231 00:14:09,210 --> 00:14:12,900 just out of favor media buyers, or as they call chief audio 232 00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:18,030 officers. Media Buyers are just not buying it because it's got a 233 00:14:18,030 --> 00:14:22,560 bad taste to it. And the thing that shocked me was fraud. 234 00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:27,810 There's there's a there's a very there's a lot of cognition now 235 00:14:27,810 --> 00:14:32,010 about fraud is a big word. They call it fraud on that show, but 236 00:14:32,370 --> 00:14:35,790 okay, we got the downloads but the download really go to where 237 00:14:35,790 --> 00:14:39,720 we think it went up. There's a lot of well, how about capping 238 00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:43,080 of frequency capping and we get into the same people getting the 239 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,760 same result, do this just they just don't know. And then again, 240 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,540 and they're getting better data from all these other places, and 241 00:14:51,540 --> 00:14:54,360 it's no longer hip and hot and happening. There's nothing but 242 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,740 bad news, which I think also attributes for the numbers being 243 00:14:58,740 --> 00:15:01,890 down. Yes, a part of that. There's going to be the apple 244 00:15:01,890 --> 00:15:04,950 podcast. And I think no agenda is if you look at the OP three 245 00:15:04,950 --> 00:15:08,760 stats for no agenda, I think it's very apparent there, then 246 00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:12,510 no agenda is typically a podcast that people will be able to 247 00:15:12,510 --> 00:15:17,220 download. And, and they'll download previous episodes. And 248 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:20,010 they may or may not get to them all the time. I think we're a 249 00:15:20,010 --> 00:15:22,950 show that people do skip sometimes. A lot of people 250 00:15:22,950 --> 00:15:27,180 don't, but we're just a long show. So we went from, let's 251 00:15:27,180 --> 00:15:31,950 say, 900,000, op, three, unique audience to a little under 252 00:15:31,950 --> 00:15:36,300 700,000 per month. Sounds about right to me from from those 253 00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:40,620 numbers. And I would say that was probably the over count. But 254 00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:45,780 the the overall decline in, in podcasting, then people are 255 00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:50,070 giving up. They think that going away, some people just like, you 256 00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:52,560 know, I think there's pod fading happening everywhere. I think 257 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,740 people are not doing as many episodes. They're not as excited 258 00:15:55,740 --> 00:15:59,280 by it. There's no longer that, hey, I can be Joe Rogan. Spotify 259 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,730 is not going to give me $100 million anymore. So it's podcast 260 00:16:02,730 --> 00:16:05,190 winter. And this is where we hunker down. This is where we 261 00:16:05,190 --> 00:16:08,940 continue to build. And until the next moment, the next serial 262 00:16:08,940 --> 00:16:11,730 moment comes along, which hopefully won't be eight years. 263 00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:17,670 Dave Jones: I did not listen to the most recent media 264 00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:22,050 roundtable. I haven't heard of yet. But so I didn't hear the 265 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,680 thing you're talking about. But I but I did. I had this 266 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,750 interesting experience. So I'm now I'm now this guy. Like, 267 00:16:31,260 --> 00:16:33,990 Adam Curry: you've been this guy for a long time. Okay. 268 00:16:36,270 --> 00:16:40,680 Dave Jones: So here's the math. My daughter, My daughter, she's 269 00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:46,200 my youngest daughter. She's 13. And so, me and her and my wife 270 00:16:46,290 --> 00:16:51,600 have gotten into this pattern each night we we have dinner and 271 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,950 we sit down we watch Gilmore Girls. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, I've 272 00:16:55,950 --> 00:16:59,910 never seen the whole thing. I've only seen pieces. Yeah, so we've 273 00:16:59,910 --> 00:17:01,770 become you know, get more girls are 274 00:17:01,770 --> 00:17:03,930 Adam Curry: hollow baby. Yeah, stars. Hello. Yeah. 275 00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:07,320 Dave Jones: It's um, you know, I look around and you know, the 276 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,270 guy that plays Luke. Scott Patterson's the actor's name. So 277 00:17:12,270 --> 00:17:16,140 I'm like, Well, wonder what else he's he's been in, you know, I'm 278 00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:18,390 interested in looking around because I really haven't seen 279 00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:20,760 many of these people on other shows. So I'm like, well, 280 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,710 where's he been on IMDb and this guy. And it's through searching 281 00:17:25,710 --> 00:17:31,140 essay. I found on Google said, he's got a podcast about Gilmore 282 00:17:31,140 --> 00:17:35,010 Girls where he is watching through the show himself 283 00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:39,060 himself, because he really is very good. Yeah, it's weird, 284 00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:42,900 because he never really saw it, I guess in a holistic way. He 285 00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:47,340 just saw the part he did. And I'm like, Well, this sounds kind 286 00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:49,470 of interesting. I wonder if it's in the index. So I'll go it's in 287 00:17:49,470 --> 00:17:53,910 the index. I've got a couple of things about this. Not just on 288 00:17:53,910 --> 00:17:56,100 two different topics. I'm going to actually bring this up again 289 00:17:56,100 --> 00:18:01,440 later. But he sort of So I find this I've subscribed to it and 290 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:07,560 cast thematic and so on now, you know, number one, I'm now that 291 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,450 guy that that goes and listens to like fan podcasts of things. 292 00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:14,490 You know, like I'm we're gonna listen through so and so 293 00:18:14,490 --> 00:18:19,500 together. But the other thing is the it's an I Heart Radio, 294 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:30,330 podcast. And it is the same. The same ads. It's like three, it's 295 00:18:30,330 --> 00:18:34,380 an Ikea ad and two other ads that I don't remember. It is the 296 00:18:34,380 --> 00:18:40,200 same ad five different times in the podcast is a pre roll. And 297 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:45,990 then there's three mid rolls, and the post roll the identical 298 00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:51,420 ads every single time without fail. Yeah. And it's like, the 299 00:18:51,420 --> 00:18:55,890 podcast is like, let's just say it's 45 minutes long. And 300 00:18:55,890 --> 00:19:02,850 there's 10 minutes 10 to 12 minutes of ads. And they're all 301 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,790 the exact same ad. It's 302 00:19:05,790 --> 00:19:07,860 Adam Curry: been there. I guess they're inserted at 303 00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:09,060 inappropriate times. 304 00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:13,020 Dave Jones: Yes, of course. Of course. It is brutal in it. So 305 00:19:13,020 --> 00:19:16,620 this is the first you know, I'm, I'm used to it. We were we're 306 00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:22,740 podcast nerds. So we're used to listening to podcasts, mostly by 307 00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:27,270 people that are really good at producing podcasts they take 308 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,580 when I when I say good at it. I mean, like they take a lot of 309 00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:35,550 care in how the product is, is Bill. Sure. This is really 310 00:19:35,550 --> 00:19:40,140 honestly my first experience with a podcast that somebody 311 00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:44,340 just a Rando would listen to, like, Oh, I like Gilmore Girls 312 00:19:44,340 --> 00:19:49,530 on subscribe to this podcast. And that stuff. If this is 313 00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:53,310 indicative of the quality that that stuff it represents. It's 314 00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:57,720 terrible. Like the show itself is okay. I mean, like it's the 315 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,140 content, but the production that are you I mean, they're all on 316 00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:06,990 like, you know, air pods mics, and they're in certain horrible 317 00:20:06,990 --> 00:20:10,080 dynamic ads in that are the same all over the place. It's it's 318 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:15,510 truly garbage. And I could see how download numbers. I could 319 00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:18,180 see how people would get fatigued of stuff like that if, 320 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,260 if that's representative of like the larger world of podcasting 321 00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:25,020 that's out there that makes up all the stuff that I don't 322 00:20:25,020 --> 00:20:26,010 normally listen to. 323 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:28,860 Adam Curry: Yeah, there was a lot of that. I mean, the the 324 00:20:28,860 --> 00:20:32,910 podcast industrial complex grew up around the success of cereal 325 00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:37,500 and the investment from Spotify. And that's the story. Everyone 326 00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:41,550 knows that. And what we've been talking about for over a year, 327 00:20:41,550 --> 00:20:45,480 maybe a year and a half is now kind of regular parlance except 328 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,330 they say Well, that was dumb money. Okay, say whatever you 329 00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:51,180 want. There was there's been dumb money there was dumb money 330 00:20:51,180 --> 00:20:55,140 for a decade. That's most technology companies are built 331 00:20:55,140 --> 00:20:57,480 on the so called it was cheap money. That's what it was which 332 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:58,140 cheap money. 333 00:20:58,530 --> 00:20:59,100 Dave Jones: cheap money. 334 00:21:00,450 --> 00:21:03,720 Adam Curry: And that's the I'm sorry, go ahead. No, no good. 335 00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:06,600 Well, the podcast industrial complex came in treated like 336 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:13,860 radio a weird hybrid actually of radio and other internet based 337 00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:19,230 advertising. I think the as Dr. As we call them the biz direct 338 00:21:19,230 --> 00:21:22,740 response. I think that's still extremely appropriate. You're 339 00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:26,520 not going to get your BMW for direct response. Go buy a BMW 340 00:21:26,550 --> 00:21:30,900 with my code. No, that's not going to happen. But brand 341 00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:34,350 advertising came in and you know, and and a lot of people 342 00:21:34,350 --> 00:21:36,840 will disagree with me on this but it's just not appropriate 343 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,310 medium. Its advertising is very inappropriate, perpendicular. 344 00:21:41,550 --> 00:21:44,790 The opposite of what podcasting has always been about. I'm not 345 00:21:44,790 --> 00:21:48,360 against advertising. I'm really not. But that experience that 346 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,720 you just discussed shows a tip it's like, it's like disco. 347 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,850 Disco was very formulaic. You know, you put your Boom, clap, 348 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,480 Boom, clap to to do to do and then you know, begin yours, your 349 00:22:00,810 --> 00:22:04,410 your lycra and your dance around them. To a degree like crew 350 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,680 techno was kind of techno was kind of a revival of that. 351 00:22:09,390 --> 00:22:12,870 Although, I don't want to get people to techno people all mad 352 00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:19,500 at me. But it's formulaic. It became formulaic and and there's 353 00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,470 this idea of, well, I have numbers, so I should make be 354 00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:26,340 making money. And we did that with blogging. Okay. No, no, 355 00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:28,980 that's just not how it works. So 356 00:22:29,130 --> 00:22:31,860 Dave Jones: look at our look at our numbers we went from we went 357 00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:34,650 down, right? We went Oh, yeah, I mean, a lot. A lot. I mean, we 358 00:22:34,650 --> 00:22:39,300 went down from 13,000. Yeah, just like, say like, 5000s. 359 00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:43,440 Yeah. A little under a little under six. If you're so that, 360 00:22:43,650 --> 00:22:47,640 those exact numbers on a note. It's always been you the numbers 361 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,910 you've always heard were, once you get 10,000. Listeners, then 362 00:22:50,910 --> 00:22:55,680 you monetize with ads. Yeah, but advertising. Well, if we if we 363 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,130 were just if we were a podcast that monetized we're not we 364 00:22:59,130 --> 00:23:02,460 know, we just immediately in two months now we're out of the 365 00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:05,490 game. Yeah, we were monetizing. Now. We're not. But 366 00:23:05,490 --> 00:23:07,800 Adam Curry: it's also a who want I just don't want it. It's 367 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,220 that's not what's so beautiful about podcasting. And, you know, 368 00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:15,960 the, the value for value concepts where people support 369 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,490 you, and it works. It's been working. Been working for me. 370 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,790 I'm hearing more and more of it. It's starting to Oh, my God, the 371 00:23:24,150 --> 00:23:27,390 beautiful interview with Ainsley Costello and just loud who are 372 00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:31,200 doing the big. The big concert concerts, I should say, December 373 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:39,600 28, December 21. Two coming to a 2.0 app near you. This guy, just 374 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:46,320 loud. He's this is like some he's like a music. What's the 375 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:52,680 word genius? He he's done. Not No, no, he's a 9000 songs. All 376 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,280 he does is write and record music, and was bought music 377 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,150 savant. Yes. And he had, he has a whole backstory, he had 10 378 00:24:00,150 --> 00:24:04,170 million streams on Spotify didn't receive a dime. He says, 379 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,770 he says, I have received more money from value for value 380 00:24:07,950 --> 00:24:11,220 played on podcast than anything I've ever done on Spotify. And 381 00:24:11,220 --> 00:24:16,050 here's what we're so beautiful. He says whenever I guess he has, 382 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,240 you know, his management team or whatever. They'll send him a 383 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,930 screenshot when stuff is coming in. And he'll go look, and he 384 00:24:21,930 --> 00:24:25,200 says, I see that I see that Satoshis coming in. He says I 385 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,220 immediately get inspired and go write another song. Oh, that's 386 00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:32,040 cool. And that's the whole point is like, you're getting 387 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,670 inspiration. You're getting the feedback loop that shows you 388 00:24:35,670 --> 00:24:38,970 that people are out there and are listening and care enough to 389 00:24:38,970 --> 00:24:43,230 send you money no matter what the amount is. It's irrelevant. 390 00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,970 Dave Jones: They do. Okay, so last week, we had this the 391 00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:54,930 Spotify take apart. Yeah. And I had mentioned that something 392 00:24:55,170 --> 00:24:59,580 that I was thinking about where we'll maybe the pod maybe the 393 00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:05,280 Spotify Exclusive. And that podcasting in general, within 394 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:11,640 Spotify was just a way to get their ma us up into the range 395 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,970 that would meet the numbers required for them to get the get 396 00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:16,710 the lowest rates on music royalty. That's 397 00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:19,260 Adam Curry: definitely part of it. It's a very good, that was a 398 00:25:19,260 --> 00:25:21,960 good deconstruction you had there. So 399 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,240 Dave Jones: I think we have confirmation of that, by 400 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:30,870 accident, in a clip from Franco asked me to send him this clip. 401 00:25:31,530 --> 00:25:35,430 And I was like, Well, I don't have I didn't at the time have 402 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,390 the clip down version of it handy. I'm like, but I do have 403 00:25:39,390 --> 00:25:41,610 the whole interview or not interview but the whole 404 00:25:41,610 --> 00:25:46,890 presentation that the lady from Spotify gave the investor day. 405 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,460 Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, here, I'll just I'll just send 406 00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:53,700 you this. And I'll let me let me find the place to start. It's 407 00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:56,730 like, I think it's two minutes I was listening through to it. And 408 00:25:57,420 --> 00:26:00,480 it was like, well, there it is. There's confirmation to that. So 409 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,060 I sent you this clip before the show. It's like at the one 410 00:26:03,060 --> 00:26:07,890 minute mark. Just start there and listen to what she says 411 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,450 Unknown: on the same platform. Now, think about how far we've 412 00:26:12,450 --> 00:26:16,710 come. In just under four years, we've gone from having virtually 413 00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:21,060 no podcast on platform to being a global leader in the market. 414 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,010 So put this in perspective. When Ankur joined Spotify in 2019, 415 00:26:26,130 --> 00:26:30,720 there were fewer than 500,000 podcasts on the platform. Today, 416 00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:35,340 there are over 4 million and anchor powers more than 75% of 417 00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:39,510 them. And those millions of shows being published to Spotify 418 00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:44,070 from anchor are often being made by first time creators. As those 419 00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:46,950 creators make their content. They share it with their friends 420 00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:51,900 and family off platform and the results. On average, every new 421 00:26:51,900 --> 00:26:57,690 anchor show brings 2.5 additional meu anchor and our 422 00:26:57,690 --> 00:27:01,020 other hosting platform megaphone, Spotify powered shows 423 00:27:01,050 --> 00:27:05,970 account for 45% of all podcast consumption on platform on 424 00:27:05,970 --> 00:27:06,570 Adam Curry: platform. 425 00:27:06,930 --> 00:27:09,750 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's the anchor now we know what anchor 426 00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:13,080 always existed and still exists and Spotify for podcast still 427 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,920 exists. It's an MA usually about and they don't give a crap about 428 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,280 those shows. No, it was never about podcasting is about mA 429 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:20,790 use. 430 00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:23,820 Adam Curry: But they never really got their advertising 431 00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:26,610 game right. As far as I can tell. Now 432 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,850 Dave Jones: it will they tried to but it was too late. They 433 00:27:29,850 --> 00:27:33,630 tried to with megaphone by going by going into RSS heavy, but it 434 00:27:33,630 --> 00:27:37,560 was them it's too late. And they they they timed it exactly at 435 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,230 the beginning of parcast. Winter, which is where you don't 436 00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:43,770 Adam Curry: want to be I'll explain meu people don't monthly 437 00:27:43,860 --> 00:27:46,500 Dave Jones: monthly active users. Yeah. So that's that's 438 00:27:46,590 --> 00:27:50,220 the monthly active users is, you know, that is like the premier 439 00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:55,050 number that gets report reported for tech companies for tech 440 00:27:55,050 --> 00:27:57,510 companies. Yeah, it's just it's a great it's their primary 441 00:27:57,510 --> 00:28:01,320 growth metric. Yeah. And then and but specifically for 442 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,240 Spotify. We, the research that we talked about last week was 443 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,320 that they when they in 2018, when they really renegotiated 444 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,410 their contract their royalty contracts with the music labels. 445 00:28:13,770 --> 00:28:19,950 The music labels, negotiated a lower royalty rate in exchange 446 00:28:19,950 --> 00:28:24,210 for guaranteed user monthly user growth and they may they may you 447 00:28:24,210 --> 00:28:26,370 never had to go up at a predictable rate. 448 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,580 Adam Curry: Oh, man that makes Yeah, if 449 00:28:29,580 --> 00:28:32,910 Dave Jones: they didn't hit the M au number growth numbers. They 450 00:28:32,910 --> 00:28:37,080 had their royalty rate went back up to the previous to what it 451 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,580 was previously. Yeah, it's so I mean, anchor if every anchor 452 00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:44,280 show brings in an extra two and a half ma you 453 00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:47,730 Adam Curry: Yeah, which is which is yourself and your buddy and 454 00:28:48,090 --> 00:28:50,070 your mom and your mom. Yeah, 455 00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:55,050 Dave Jones: yeah, half of your mom. Yeah. Yeah, so that mean it 456 00:28:55,050 --> 00:28:57,750 was it's always it's just it's just a NEMA you play it was 457 00:28:57,750 --> 00:29:00,840 always bogus and that's why you have you know, people that have 458 00:29:01,350 --> 00:29:07,650 a supposedly anchor podcast in there clearly. It sounds farmy 459 00:29:08,370 --> 00:29:13,860 Do you know what I mean? Like there'd be like 1000 shows new 460 00:29:13,860 --> 00:29:19,380 shows a day or more and half of them are like it in 10 seconds 461 00:29:19,380 --> 00:29:21,480 of somebody you know doing a fart noise 462 00:29:22,830 --> 00:29:25,440 Adam Curry: you would know you you went through most of those 463 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:26,580 swear to 464 00:29:26,580 --> 00:29:29,670 Dave Jones: God I mean like it's horrible. But then it but then a 465 00:29:29,670 --> 00:29:35,160 lot of them is just like people that are clearly from like it's 466 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,150 like it's kind of like click farms you know there that are in 467 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,170 the right deterring country like the Philippines and Indonesia 468 00:29:43,170 --> 00:29:45,660 and these places where they run these these sweatshop click 469 00:29:45,660 --> 00:29:50,850 farms. A lot of the a lot of the anchor stuff sounded farmy to 470 00:29:50,850 --> 00:29:55,830 me. I'm not saying that they did it, but it's like it just had 471 00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:58,710 that weird vibe to it where you're like, This doesn't even 472 00:29:58,770 --> 00:30:00,630 make sense. Why did anybody even bother 473 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,810 Adam Curry: if there's any if the way they the way Spotify 474 00:30:03,810 --> 00:30:09,570 works with with music with purchasing fake streams getting 475 00:30:09,570 --> 00:30:12,900 on a certain playlist paying for that, if that's any indication, 476 00:30:12,930 --> 00:30:17,550 I'm sure that all of the all of the above is true. Yeah, yeah, 477 00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:21,570 the whole thing. The whole thing is just, it's, it's a crap show. 478 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,190 It really is. And I, you know, whatever motivated us, whatever 479 00:30:26,190 --> 00:30:30,210 I mean, we know what the surface reasons were, but we're on a 480 00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:33,930 mission from God, Dave, bring out the book. This is the good 481 00:30:33,930 --> 00:30:38,790 book. We started this at the right time and look at look at 482 00:30:38,790 --> 00:30:42,030 the results while the pod and I should say the podcast 483 00:30:42,030 --> 00:30:48,750 industrial complex winter. Well, that has set in. We have all I 484 00:30:48,750 --> 00:30:52,410 think every single app has done an update in the past couple of 485 00:30:52,410 --> 00:30:56,400 weeks and good updates. Good ones. Yeah, good ones. I'm blown 486 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,470 away by podcast guru. The stuff Mitch is doing with POD verse. 487 00:31:03,060 --> 00:31:06,930 The Fountain version one, which I think is in beta still is 488 00:31:07,140 --> 00:31:11,670 phenomenally improved. I mean, the speed the interface, you 489 00:31:11,670 --> 00:31:14,520 know, just there's a lot of thought went into that, that Sam 490 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,140 Sethi launched today I think and and rebranded to true fans, 491 00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:23,370 which I think is sexy. I liked it and I like I like true 492 00:31:23,370 --> 00:31:28,320 fans.fm And he's and he's got a whole M in his vision, which is 493 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,040 clear to me is very different from what any other podcast app 494 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,870 is doing. I love that and I think that it'll probably really 495 00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:42,390 come to life with this Ainsley Costello just loud show which is 496 00:31:42,390 --> 00:31:46,650 going to be on true fans pod verse podcast guru 497 00:31:48,540 --> 00:31:50,370 Dave Jones: I have a breakdown and you wonder yes please 498 00:31:50,370 --> 00:31:54,060 Adam Curry: please because I and I, and I love watching how 499 00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:58,950 everyone came together that Adobe das at RSS blue.com You 500 00:31:58,950 --> 00:32:02,610 know he's doing the RSS feed and you know everyone's been testing 501 00:32:02,610 --> 00:32:07,560 it's like my heart is full and warm from just watching all this 502 00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:09,030 little sticky but it's 503 00:32:10,620 --> 00:32:16,410 Dave Jones: that's the eggnog so I did I would I tuned in to the 504 00:32:16,410 --> 00:32:19,620 one o'clock pm central time Test 505 00:32:19,650 --> 00:32:22,500 Adam Curry: Now was this blueberry on site as well as he 506 00:32:22,650 --> 00:32:26,010 was he a part of this because he's teased in this too? I mean, 507 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,810 there's all kinds of people I miss 508 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,470 Dave Jones: I don't know if he was on site or not but very were 509 00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:36,000 you on site let us know Yeah. So we did the angular Costello live 510 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,450 test yesterday or not say we did I was not part of it but I was 511 00:32:39,450 --> 00:32:45,150 testing it. And pod verse five by five worth work like 512 00:32:45,150 --> 00:32:47,730 Adam Curry: a champ. Yeah. And that's on the web or the app the 513 00:32:47,730 --> 00:32:50,070 web I guess, the the web I 514 00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:54,990 Dave Jones: did not test on device for pod verse. Curio 515 00:32:54,990 --> 00:32:59,340 caster. Also five by five podcast guru, beautiful, 516 00:32:59,370 --> 00:33:04,050 perfect. Pod fans could not. And I think Sam said this, he said 517 00:33:04,050 --> 00:33:08,700 he had worked to do some it's like it wanted to play and it 518 00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:12,480 kept trying to go but some it just wasn't working. 519 00:33:12,690 --> 00:33:17,580 Adam Curry: Sounds like a corps or DNS issue. It's always what 520 00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:19,440 it is. So 521 00:33:19,470 --> 00:33:25,230 Dave Jones: out of the four video apps that we add the 14.0 522 00:33:25,230 --> 00:33:30,150 apps that we know support video, the three the four, beautiful 523 00:33:30,150 --> 00:33:34,050 ready to go in and I'm in I'm sure that Sam will get fans up 524 00:33:34,050 --> 00:33:38,100 and running. But I mean, like we're, it was a fun experience. 525 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:41,520 Um, is it was really cool to see that 526 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,650 Adam Curry: were you able to boost as well? What did that 527 00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:45,840 have that up? Did you check all that stuff or just just the 528 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:46,410 video? 529 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,490 Dave Jones: I didn't try to boost at the time because I know 530 00:33:50,550 --> 00:33:55,020 PUD and I was curious. Okay, Securio caster was streaming 531 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,970 auto it was streaming per minute. But I, I did not try to 532 00:33:59,970 --> 00:34:05,430 boost through any of the Alby back stuff because I think, I 533 00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:07,380 guess we have to talk about the LP pocalypse. 534 00:34:07,740 --> 00:34:09,480 Adam Curry: Yeah, so of course, of course we have. 535 00:34:11,219 --> 00:34:13,379 Dave Jones: That was taught so that was happening at that time. 536 00:34:13,379 --> 00:34:15,719 And I was like, okay, um, I just want to see the video work. So I 537 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,869 was that's all I was really focusing on at the moment. But I 538 00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:21,809 mean, like, it was a great experience to to be able to, 539 00:34:21,809 --> 00:34:28,979 like, pop up and pour gas guru on my phone. Or the other apps 540 00:34:28,979 --> 00:34:35,339 on the web. And I'm just watching them have a live jam 541 00:34:35,339 --> 00:34:37,739 session. It was so cool. Wow. 542 00:34:38,369 --> 00:34:42,779 Adam Curry: Yeah, it's rad. So just looking at some of the 543 00:34:42,929 --> 00:34:48,869 going to another thing here. So I was messing around with with 544 00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:53,129 podcast guru. And I come across a feed and yeah, this vigilante 545 00:34:53,129 --> 00:34:55,709 TV that kind of we I think we talked about that the other day, 546 00:34:55,709 --> 00:34:58,019 like these guys are doing all kinds of foreign feeds with 547 00:34:58,019 --> 00:35:01,619 everything in there. They've got They've got value blokes, 548 00:35:01,619 --> 00:35:05,039 they've got everything. And I find David Icke. Now, of course, 549 00:35:05,069 --> 00:35:08,999 everyone can roll your eyes about David Icke, lizard, Lizard 550 00:35:08,999 --> 00:35:15,749 Man. But he, he's has in their ultimate enclosure, which is an 551 00:35:15,779 --> 00:35:24,089 HLS video, which is clearly streaming, streaming with value 552 00:35:24,089 --> 00:35:28,259 blocks and everything and an on podcast guru, it just works. 553 00:35:29,189 --> 00:35:32,399 Really? Yes. With the alternative and closure. I'm 554 00:35:32,399 --> 00:35:35,579 like, what I mean, what is going on here? The stuff is moving 555 00:35:35,579 --> 00:35:38,549 fast. This is this is interesting. 556 00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:40,770 Dave Jones: I think the vigilante.tv thing? 557 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,250 Adam Curry: Well, in the podcast index is just David Icke, 558 00:35:44,250 --> 00:35:47,580 because there seems to be three duplicate feeds of the same 559 00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:49,410 thing, which, okay. 560 00:35:51,660 --> 00:35:53,760 Dave Jones: But here I say, Yeah, but 561 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,030 Adam Curry: there's, but I'm up because it would start off with 562 00:35:57,030 --> 00:36:00,360 the same video. I'm like, What is this and the progress bar 563 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,760 wasn't moving properly. And then I started looking into the other 564 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:06,600 streaming. 565 00:36:07,950 --> 00:36:10,290 Dave Jones: And they got Potter, they get a get pod roll in here. 566 00:36:10,290 --> 00:36:10,710 Yeah, 567 00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:13,500 Adam Curry: everything's in there. And you know, for a gay 568 00:36:13,530 --> 00:36:20,100 gay a guy like David Icke who, you know, inherently is not an 569 00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:25,020 advertising friendly guy. Value provide value for value is 570 00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:27,480 perfect. Perfect. 571 00:36:27,900 --> 00:36:30,480 Dave Jones: I think out that talked to Alex and he said that 572 00:36:30,990 --> 00:36:35,430 the guys run into what's at hive tube, which is what vigilantes 573 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,850 okay, they took his like, login basically plugin work yeah. For 574 00:36:41,850 --> 00:36:44,310 to the off and started doing their own things. I mean, they, 575 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,020 they pretty much forked off of peer tube. They've got all you 576 00:36:49,020 --> 00:36:51,360 know, they're clearly running his code because it's got to 2.0 577 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,050 feeds and all 578 00:36:52,590 --> 00:36:56,220 Adam Curry: right. Dobby das says boosting live worked on all 579 00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:59,220 apps Dave mentioned and pod verse video live stream worked 580 00:36:59,220 --> 00:37:04,950 on mobile to price. I mean, I'm, I am going to, I'm getting a 581 00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:10,950 couple 100 bucks in my wallets. And I'm going to run all five of 582 00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:14,310 them at the same time. And boost everybody the same. So Merry 583 00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:15,420 Christmas, everybody. 584 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,230 Dave Jones: You bet the SAT canon. 585 00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:21,960 Adam Curry: Pew, pew, pew, pew. 586 00:37:23,730 --> 00:37:27,120 Dave Jones: That's a good idea. Yeah. And they load up, load up 587 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,180 a fat wallet and do it to that. I'm looking forward to it. So 588 00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:32,280 it's the 20/20. 589 00:37:32,490 --> 00:37:35,100 Adam Curry: I think 20. There's two shows the 20th and the 21st. 590 00:37:35,130 --> 00:37:40,080 I think Ainslie costello.com. Our just loud world.com has all 591 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,290 the info. Just one other thing I wanted to mention about because 592 00:37:43,290 --> 00:37:48,540 I was listening to the new media show. And I was here's the funny 593 00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:53,040 thing was about advertising and about stats and numbers. And you 594 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,210 know how tricky it is. And the first I would say if I, if I had 595 00:37:57,210 --> 00:38:05,220 a an advertising base show that I had to show numbers to an 596 00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:09,720 advertiser, but I would hands down, run that through 597 00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:14,550 blueberry, I believe Todd Cochran has the best, most 598 00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:20,550 honest, most fair numbers in the world. Now. I mean, I just I 599 00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:23,880 know the work he's done on that. But I'm also hearing about how 600 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,560 much money he spends, you know, to make sure that, you know, he 601 00:38:30,030 --> 00:38:33,990 gets an updated scam list. And there's all these different 602 00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:36,840 things that he has to it's like, it's like a moving target, it's 603 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,950 Whack a Mole. And he spends a lot of money, time and energy on 604 00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:45,180 it. And meanwhile, I probably sent him 20 bucks, just me in 605 00:38:45,180 --> 00:38:47,820 booster grams, you know, just to hear my name on the show, of 606 00:38:47,820 --> 00:38:51,540 course, of course this but then this, this thing came up about 607 00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:56,010 op three and I just want it because I was listening to rob, 608 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,180 who says, Well, you know, this is ideology of transparency and 609 00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:05,520 like, what is this ideology? Crap. It's not it. So I just 610 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:11,880 want to explain my my feelings about this. I think the IAB is a 611 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,450 scam. It's not that their numbers are a scam. But 612 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,480 everyone's numbers are different. It's it's a it's a 613 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,620 recommended certification. It's not like a centralized Nielsen. 614 00:39:22,650 --> 00:39:25,620 The reason why television ad rates are what they are. One is 615 00:39:25,620 --> 00:39:31,380 because there's artificial supply, scarcity, scarcity. 616 00:39:31,380 --> 00:39:35,640 Thank you. Because it's on a 24 hour clock instead of you know, 617 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,750 how much inventory do you want, but it's also one central 618 00:39:40,140 --> 00:39:45,150 approved source. And I think that what Spurlock has done with 619 00:39:45,150 --> 00:39:56,160 Opie three is really the future for for any type of download 620 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:01,800 based ad, download base system and I'm because if everyone 621 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,220 starts contributing to it, and we all make it open, which is 622 00:40:05,220 --> 00:40:08,670 not not an ideology, it's like I want to help people I put all my 623 00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:12,510 all my numbers are up there. And I don't have an advertising 624 00:40:12,510 --> 00:40:14,880 plane it doesn't I don't look at it either. I really don't care 625 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,520 that much. Because I just want to be I just need to know if I 626 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,580 can pay the rent. That's basically the numbers I've 627 00:40:20,580 --> 00:40:23,370 looked at how much do we do? And if not, I tell the audience you 628 00:40:23,370 --> 00:40:28,590 know, we need more, otherwise, I can't do this anymore. Right. So 629 00:40:28,620 --> 00:40:34,050 so this became this whole thing. And I'm just I think there's a 630 00:40:34,050 --> 00:40:37,080 cultural thing going on here. And I just want to make sure 631 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,620 that's out because I don't know what it's like in Australia. But 632 00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:44,280 in America if you if you tell a man your chicken you make 633 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:53,010 chicken noises you can you might get shot criticism was going on 634 00:40:53,010 --> 00:40:56,970 and on at Todd about chicken don't want to put your numbers 635 00:40:56,970 --> 00:41:01,710 out there. Like that yellow that's that's not in America. 636 00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:06,330 That's that's like, slapping the glove in someone's face in 637 00:41:06,330 --> 00:41:09,990 person. You know it. That's, that may not be culturally the 638 00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:11,880 same thing. The dual 639 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,740 Dave Jones: challenges. Yeah. And 640 00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:17,880 Adam Curry: I was hurting for Todd. Right. Wow, man, that's 641 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,390 really harsh. I know. Todd doesn't have to show his number. 642 00:41:21,420 --> 00:41:24,780 No one has to do anything. But. But also it's like, Come on, 643 00:41:24,780 --> 00:41:29,160 let's like, you know, let's just calm down a second, that I've 644 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,090 never even lashed out at Big Cridland that hard. But I don't 645 00:41:33,090 --> 00:41:37,290 think he realizes that it's an America that's culturally. You 646 00:41:37,290 --> 00:41:41,400 know how the C word and America doesn't mean the same thing in 647 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:42,180 the UK? 648 00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:45,390 Dave Jones: No, yeah. Yeah. So it's different. Yeah, it's 649 00:41:45,390 --> 00:41:49,080 Adam Curry: that level different? Probably. So yeah, I 650 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,330 just need to get off my chest. I'm listening to him like, Oh, 651 00:41:51,330 --> 00:41:54,690 my God, this is really horrible. This 652 00:41:55,590 --> 00:42:01,890 Dave Jones: is funny. So you mentioned you mentioned blue. So 653 00:42:01,890 --> 00:42:06,900 Todd, posted in the chat just a minute ago that he's there 654 00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:12,090 seeing programmatic advertising CPM, six, between $6 and $14, 655 00:42:12,090 --> 00:42:18,810 depending on what did you know, you, you could say that, if you 656 00:42:18,810 --> 00:42:28,470 stick it out, if you are, if you are a an advertising supported 657 00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:32,970 show, and you stick it out through the dark, you know, 658 00:42:32,970 --> 00:42:38,130 through the dark days of the podcast winter, Z, you may you 659 00:42:38,130 --> 00:42:41,880 know, the see this, I guess the silver lining is the CPMs 660 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,750 probably would come up a bit. Because you're gonna have just 661 00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:49,860 less competition. The more podcast Oh, yeah, game drives 662 00:42:49,860 --> 00:42:51,660 the CPMs down to down to zero. 663 00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:54,570 Adam Curry: So it's just the whole idea, so antithetical to 664 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,590 the love that you get from a podcast like, I'm going to rob 665 00:42:58,590 --> 00:43:02,010 the podcast, I'm going to make you listen to this. Whereas I 666 00:43:02,010 --> 00:43:06,720 mean, I'd prefer to even even if it's Ben Shapiro going gold. I 667 00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:10,350 mean, you know, it's all right. I mean, I can handle that. But 668 00:43:10,350 --> 00:43:13,200 it's like, please listen to the ads, please click on our, you 669 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,220 know, go to our advertisers websites. No, I mean, it's so 670 00:43:17,220 --> 00:43:20,070 much easier to ask for value to be returned. And 671 00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:22,920 Dave Jones: I guess, you know, that's, that's what, that's 672 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,150 what's wrong with all these discussions, is that they all 673 00:43:27,150 --> 00:43:31,110 get talked about just like, I just did it. I just did this. 674 00:43:31,110 --> 00:43:34,770 Yeah. Without thinking about it, all of these discussions, you 675 00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:38,190 start talking about advertising and all this kind of stuff as in 676 00:43:38,190 --> 00:43:42,300 a vacuum as if it's a math problem, right, completely 677 00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:46,530 disregard the listener experience, and all that stuff. 678 00:43:46,890 --> 00:43:52,110 And as I did that, 15 minutes after I just finished talking 679 00:43:52,110 --> 00:43:54,840 about this Gilmore Girls podcast, it drove me crazy. 680 00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:00,210 Well, okay, CPMs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and listener 681 00:44:00,210 --> 00:44:05,070 counts. And it's like, it's so easy to get enticed into that 682 00:44:05,550 --> 00:44:08,430 into the way of thinking that is just so this nothing but 683 00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:11,550 metrics. Yeah, we're all you're just, you're just pushing charts 684 00:44:11,550 --> 00:44:13,440 around all day, and you're thinking and metrics and 685 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,220 numbers, and you're completely forget that the on the ground 686 00:44:17,220 --> 00:44:20,370 experience of listening to some of these shows is complete 687 00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:21,030 garbage. 688 00:44:22,110 --> 00:44:27,210 Adam Curry: And I have the same feeling about all the AI stuff. 689 00:44:27,570 --> 00:44:33,240 You know, it's like, okay, yeah, we're gonna make podcasting 690 00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:37,290 easier. You know, it'll be simpler. I've heard a whole 691 00:44:37,290 --> 00:44:41,220 conversations about, well, we need to make the gear as to auto 692 00:44:41,220 --> 00:44:44,250 configure itself, you know, sometimes you got to learn 693 00:44:44,250 --> 00:44:47,520 something. You got to learn something. And if you learn 694 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,040 something, then you can get good at it. And if you put the time 695 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,700 in, you know, this, it's not like a magic money machine. 696 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,850 That's how it's treated. That's how it things on the internet 697 00:44:56,850 --> 00:44:59,760 are always treated that way and at the end of the day, and I 698 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,530 said If you're working your tail off for some Silicon Valley 699 00:45:04,530 --> 00:45:07,560 company who's giving you a little pittance at the end of 700 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,970 the ride, you are you are building their business. Every 701 00:45:11,970 --> 00:45:15,870 tweet, you send every YouTube video your upload, you're doing 702 00:45:15,870 --> 00:45:22,440 it for Google them, maybe they'll give you something. And 703 00:45:22,590 --> 00:45:27,150 they won't know the probably won't know that when we started. 704 00:45:27,150 --> 00:45:30,360 I wish I could find one of my old daily source code openers. 705 00:45:31,950 --> 00:45:36,000 Because it was a British BBC guy who had interviewed me still 706 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,840 alive. I think he was out he was pretty old then. And it starts 707 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,860 like something is happening here. And then you know, 708 00:45:43,860 --> 00:45:47,070 something, there's something going on. People can people with 709 00:45:47,070 --> 00:45:51,960 anything, or nothing to say, can do this without gatekeepers. And 710 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,840 that that's really what it was when we first start off. It was, 711 00:45:54,990 --> 00:45:58,410 hey, I can do this. I don't need a transmitter transmitters. We 712 00:45:58,410 --> 00:46:01,770 don't need no strength. It was never I can make money just by 713 00:46:01,770 --> 00:46:06,090 putting up an mp3 and getting some downloads. No, there was 714 00:46:06,090 --> 00:46:09,960 never that. It was never that. And so this whole so called 715 00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:13,620 industry, which still after 20 years can't agree on their 716 00:46:13,620 --> 00:46:20,250 measurements. It's not an industry then. 20 years. Yeah. 717 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,770 Dave Jones: I still love that. 20 years on. downloads can 718 00:46:25,770 --> 00:46:29,940 evaporate 20% over overnight. And we're like whoa. 719 00:46:32,130 --> 00:46:33,840 Adam Curry: What? Yeah, like, 720 00:46:33,870 --> 00:46:36,030 Dave Jones: like, oh, we, you know, we we get this stuff 721 00:46:36,030 --> 00:46:42,660 nailed down. It's fine. And it's like whoosh, yeah. What do you 722 00:46:42,660 --> 00:46:47,850 want to see? You know, what's weird is in this hive tube feed. 723 00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:54,120 They have a tag in here called podcast colon search. Oh, that's 724 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,390 Adam Curry: not a real tag. No. Interesting. 725 00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:58,620 Dave Jones: winging it. 726 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,720 Adam Curry: Like Sam like Sam Sethi. Sam Sethi just every 727 00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:05,490 idea. Oh, I did that. 728 00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:08,580 Dave Jones: Hey, Sam, do you know that they have a tag? You 729 00:47:08,580 --> 00:47:13,770 don't have? Yeah, maybe better? Yeah. Yeah, fight go. 730 00:47:14,460 --> 00:47:17,520 Adam Curry: So what was interesting is that Sam put in 731 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,170 the alternate enclosure. And I guess this is it's a hack. I 732 00:47:22,170 --> 00:47:26,430 guess it was based upon kind of a flippant remark we made about 733 00:47:26,670 --> 00:47:34,350 embedding a YouTube video as an enclosure. And so true. fans.fm 734 00:47:34,380 --> 00:47:38,520 has that working? I saw Mitch was working on some stuff. And 735 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,250 there was some back and forth, you know, if anyone if this is 736 00:47:41,310 --> 00:47:44,760 have we decided if this is even possible? I mean, Alex Gates was 737 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,230 very clear that, you know, you can there's a way you can access 738 00:47:49,230 --> 00:47:53,100 the HLS stream or something, but the apps would have to do some 739 00:47:53,100 --> 00:47:56,460 decoding. I mean, is this have we determined if this is a thing 740 00:47:56,460 --> 00:47:57,030 or not? 741 00:47:58,410 --> 00:48:01,590 Dave Jones: I could have sworn that I saw somebody saying that 742 00:48:01,590 --> 00:48:06,060 it worked. But I don't remember who or what, or anything like 743 00:48:06,060 --> 00:48:11,430 that. I mean, it would, it's got to be easy to test. You know, I 744 00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:17,220 mean, like, it just has to be because the altered the HLS 745 00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:21,270 streams are supported, like in pod verse in pod fans and 746 00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:21,750 podcast 747 00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:23,670 Adam Curry: gurus. Clearly Yeah. 748 00:48:23,940 --> 00:48:26,430 Dave Jones: And curio caster. Right. But then the thinking 749 00:48:26,430 --> 00:48:30,450 Adam Curry: was that that wouldn't be possible YouTube 750 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,960 wouldn't let that happen. I'm just wondering if if we'd 751 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,020 figured that out? Because I'd love to try it. I mean, I know 752 00:48:37,020 --> 00:48:40,560 that Steven B is threatened to put alternate enclosures into 753 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,770 sovereign feeds of course. Love that guy. 754 00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:52,200 Dave Jones: Yeah, but I mean, yeah, I think that that's see 755 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,500 that I mean, there's this tension between between the 756 00:48:55,500 --> 00:49:01,020 stuff that Sam is doing and the the hosting companies. No, 757 00:49:01,020 --> 00:49:05,280 Adam Curry: I know that I understand why I get it. But if 758 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:10,710 I want to put a PDF into my enclosure, that's valid. As long 759 00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:12,090 as I have the MIME type in there. 760 00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:16,140 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's just uh, the the alternate enclosure. I 761 00:49:16,140 --> 00:49:16,740 mean, that's what 762 00:49:16,740 --> 00:49:18,360 Adam Curry: it's for. Yeah, exactly. 763 00:49:20,370 --> 00:49:22,320 Dave Jones: And I think the I think the idea is to run you 764 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:28,110 know, if if this Silicon Valley is going to if they're going to 765 00:49:28,140 --> 00:49:31,530 take everything from you and give you nothing, well, then, 766 00:49:31,620 --> 00:49:34,860 you know, let's ride the master. Advantages 767 00:49:34,860 --> 00:49:37,950 Adam Curry: take it from Oh, ultimate enclosures is indeed in 768 00:49:38,370 --> 00:49:40,650 sovereign feeds. Well, could 769 00:49:40,650 --> 00:49:43,500 Dave Jones: you here's the here's, here's the good, here's 770 00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:44,730 the good, what could you 771 00:49:46,260 --> 00:49:49,620 Adam Curry: check it out? I can even I can add the source URI 772 00:49:49,620 --> 00:49:54,630 and then type length bitrate height, language. Arielle, 773 00:49:54,660 --> 00:49:57,480 codecs, default all kinds of stuff is in here. 774 00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:01,110 Dave Jones: When did Steven do that? When does he Does he? What 775 00:50:01,110 --> 00:50:02,340 does he do all this stuff? 776 00:50:02,820 --> 00:50:04,560 Adam Curry: Right after he puts the kids to bed? 777 00:50:06,089 --> 00:50:06,989 Dave Jones: While he's putting it? 778 00:50:08,790 --> 00:50:11,040 Adam Curry: Oh, cool, so I can mess around with that now, 779 00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:14,820 Dave Jones: because I want I wonder if you could do unlist an 780 00:50:14,850 --> 00:50:19,860 unlisted YouTube video? Oh, and then just grabbed HLS out of 781 00:50:19,860 --> 00:50:22,620 that. Yeah, I just use that as the 782 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,230 Adam Curry: I just need to know just need to know how to, quote 783 00:50:25,230 --> 00:50:26,910 unquote grab the HLS 784 00:50:27,540 --> 00:50:30,510 Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't know that that's, I don't know. I 785 00:50:30,510 --> 00:50:35,040 would assume that something like something like YouTube DLC, you 786 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:35,580 know, like that can 787 00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:37,980 Adam Curry: write? Right? You can pick it up from there. 788 00:50:38,430 --> 00:50:42,510 Dave Jones: I bet you that was a bet you that shows you only try. 789 00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:51,870 Let's see if they've got a do I have you to DLC to deal? See? I 790 00:50:51,870 --> 00:50:55,860 do not. I will. And I'm not going to install it right now. 791 00:50:55,860 --> 00:50:57,390 Because that would crash my computer. 792 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,910 Adam Curry: We got 25,000 SATs from Todd Cochran. Oh, he says 793 00:51:02,970 --> 00:51:06,480 way behind on episodes after being away for three weeks on a 794 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,140 brain break. Oh, man, is it okay, we're able to put it back 795 00:51:10,140 --> 00:51:15,270 together the break is the new hack to use YouTube video 796 00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:19,560 annoyed me. And it still does a bit Oh, I like this. Being 797 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,610 blueberry has supported through video podcasts since the begin 798 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,330 beginning fully podcasting two point podcasting to enable. 799 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,930 Getting to point this is the only function I can get behind 800 00:51:30,930 --> 00:51:34,410 an alt enclosure support which we can position as a worthwhile 801 00:51:34,410 --> 00:51:38,040 feature. That said once Dave gets our namespace proposal move 802 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:42,450 forward, we can kill two birds with one stone. I understand why 803 00:51:42,450 --> 00:51:46,260 you're annoyed by that Todd, I get that. I do. 804 00:51:47,790 --> 00:51:51,510 Dave Jones: But look at it this way, though. video, YouTube. 805 00:51:51,780 --> 00:51:54,150 Blueberry is one of the only one only hosting companies to 806 00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:59,490 support video as an option, and it costs a lot more money 807 00:51:59,490 --> 00:52:04,530 because of the bandwidth requirements. This way, you you 808 00:52:04,530 --> 00:52:08,820 keep a customer with and they can put in their own alternate 809 00:52:08,820 --> 00:52:14,010 video stream perhaps using YouTube HLS they're going to go 810 00:52:14,010 --> 00:52:18,210 do it themselves. But you keep the customer because and they 811 00:52:18,210 --> 00:52:23,970 don't bail to YouTube or some other video platform. And but 812 00:52:23,970 --> 00:52:26,400 they don't it doesn't cost them any extra. Yeah, 813 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,600 Adam Curry: I'm not even gonna get into that argument. What 814 00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,420 what is the proposal that he's talking about? This is the 815 00:52:33,450 --> 00:52:37,470 ultimate feed proposal. Majority. Yeah. Anything that I 816 00:52:37,470 --> 00:52:38,430 think that's fine too. 817 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:45,990 Dave Jones: Right. Yeah, the one the discussion we have. Again, 818 00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:47,550 namespace stuff to talk about. 819 00:52:48,210 --> 00:52:49,860 Adam Curry: You don't want it you want is you want to fire it 820 00:52:49,860 --> 00:52:57,960 up. Hit it. And now it's time for some hot names call so hot 821 00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,150 is heating up the podcast winter. 822 00:53:03,060 --> 00:53:07,170 Dave Jones: We kind of something makes me want to want like a 823 00:53:07,170 --> 00:53:09,960 Christmas version of hot namespace. 824 00:53:10,140 --> 00:53:12,780 Adam Curry: Okay, hold on a second. I think we can do this 825 00:53:12,780 --> 00:53:15,630 flip with like sleigh bells or something you name Let me see. 826 00:53:15,660 --> 00:53:18,060 Let me say why don't we try this again? Let's see if we can do 827 00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:26,790 this. Is not it? No, that's not even close now. Okay, let's try 828 00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:35,640 it again. And now it's time for some namespace. You go Christmas 829 00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,340 namespace talk. Yeah. 830 00:53:38,970 --> 00:53:42,990 Dave Jones: Maybe you want to, maybe you have an eggnog with 831 00:53:43,470 --> 00:53:45,390 with some leg of Mulan. 832 00:53:50,070 --> 00:53:52,980 Adam Curry: Wow, that's very insulting to the Lagavulin, but 833 00:53:52,980 --> 00:53:53,460 okay. 834 00:53:56,970 --> 00:53:59,310 Dave Jones: MacAllan 18. Oh, yeah, 835 00:53:59,310 --> 00:54:01,800 Adam Curry: it gets gets better, gets better McCallum 836 00:54:02,670 --> 00:54:05,130 Dave Jones: and you're like, hey, sweet. Hey, sweetheart. Can 837 00:54:05,130 --> 00:54:08,370 we talk about namespace the lightning, the lightning 838 00:54:08,370 --> 00:54:10,830 interest attribute on the value tag? 839 00:54:10,890 --> 00:54:14,760 Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, honey, I'm so hot for you right now. And 840 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,640 Dave Jones: she says I want to divorce. Right. 841 00:54:18,090 --> 00:54:18,750 Adam Curry: Right away. 842 00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,220 Dave Jones: That is that that is something that we need to talk 843 00:54:23,220 --> 00:54:29,340 about. So the lightning address thing in the value. We talked 844 00:54:29,340 --> 00:54:35,100 about this briefly a few weeks ago. Oscar and and the lb guys 845 00:54:35,580 --> 00:54:43,110 wanted it. Want an ad want a new attribute on the value recipient 846 00:54:43,110 --> 00:54:49,020 tag? That would take a lightning a key send address, right? So 847 00:54:49,020 --> 00:54:52,440 that you could say like, you know, David get alby.com instead 848 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:58,980 of the 100 node ID which is fine. The sticking point though. 849 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,260 It has been two things. What do you call it? I think we've got 850 00:55:04,260 --> 00:55:05,070 that settled. 851 00:55:05,610 --> 00:55:07,260 Adam Curry: But then what do we call it? What 852 00:55:07,260 --> 00:55:10,380 Dave Jones: is the name? Is the attributes just going to be 853 00:55:10,380 --> 00:55:15,090 called Kison? Lightning address thingy? Is Lola will already 854 00:55:15,330 --> 00:55:17,190 Adam Curry: work? You said. Yeah, 855 00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:21,630 Dave Jones: keys. And so the idea here would be that you have 856 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:27,450 a instead of a type of node, you have a type of keys and and that 857 00:55:27,660 --> 00:55:32,070 unlocks a key send attribute, which then has the key send 858 00:55:32,070 --> 00:55:40,590 address in it like David get albedo? That's fine, except for 859 00:55:40,620 --> 00:55:45,690 a couple of couple of things. Is this is this than an exclusive 860 00:55:45,690 --> 00:55:52,440 thing? Does that mean that now all that you have in the value 861 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:59,430 recipient tag is just the key send attribute with the key send 862 00:55:59,430 --> 00:56:05,070 address in it? Or do you also still retain the node ID, the 863 00:56:05,070 --> 00:56:08,490 address attribute with the node ID in it also, and then you just 864 00:56:08,490 --> 00:56:14,310 have a situation where where the address is tried first? You 865 00:56:14,310 --> 00:56:15,810 know, you'd like it, then you have both, but you have a 866 00:56:15,810 --> 00:56:21,870 priority. One one over the other. That's, that's one thing 867 00:56:22,020 --> 00:56:26,160 that we don't know yet. That that Michael from WaveLight 868 00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,660 brought up. And then the other thing is, where does the 869 00:56:30,660 --> 00:56:34,680 resolution happen? So the two people bringing this up, or 870 00:56:34,860 --> 00:56:38,070 Oscar for fountain and the gas from Alby? 871 00:56:39,090 --> 00:56:41,850 Adam Curry: Yeah, that was just a good question. Where does the 872 00:56:41,850 --> 00:56:45,000 resolution happen? Because in my case, that means it got to set 873 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,170 up a server, I gotta have a cert gotta do all kinds of 874 00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:51,270 Dave Jones: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, this, I'm talking about 875 00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:52,650 client side resolution. 876 00:56:53,970 --> 00:56:56,610 Adam Curry: How do they resolve it? Where do they resolve it? At 877 00:56:56,610 --> 00:56:57,420 what point? 878 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,980 Dave Jones: Right? Does the so in this case, cast ematic has to 879 00:57:01,980 --> 00:57:05,940 look has to do it looks into splits? Do they have to look up 880 00:57:05,940 --> 00:57:09,780 the address before they send you the split? So that they can get 881 00:57:09,810 --> 00:57:16,260 the node ID the correct node IDs to send in the lb API calls? Or 882 00:57:16,260 --> 00:57:23,070 can or can Franco just provide the address in the lb API call? 883 00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,840 And lb does the lookup on their side? Whoo, 884 00:57:27,870 --> 00:57:30,780 Adam Curry: well, that sounds dangerous, because now you have 885 00:57:30,780 --> 00:57:38,010 something that is specific to the wallet. And the wallets API 886 00:57:38,010 --> 00:57:40,830 instead of something universal that everybody can just 887 00:57:40,860 --> 00:57:45,300 implement and say, okay, but I have to look this up. Right? 888 00:57:45,390 --> 00:57:50,160 Because let's put it this way, if it's wallet side, and I 889 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,030 decided for whatever reason I wanted to do Adam mccurry.com, I 890 00:57:54,030 --> 00:57:57,300 would have to provide that somehow. 891 00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:01,290 Dave Jones: Right? If you're if my 892 00:58:01,290 --> 00:58:04,770 Adam Curry: wallet and API like that, I mean, it's easier for me 893 00:58:04,770 --> 00:58:09,120 to do, even though a pain in the ass, and I won't do it, it will 894 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,320 be easier for me to set up a reverse proxy on my start nine 895 00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,520 and have a well known address type file there that just you 896 00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,790 know, serves it up instead of trying to figure out how to bake 897 00:58:20,790 --> 00:58:21,960 that into my wallet. 898 00:58:23,100 --> 00:58:27,720 Dave Jones: I agree. I agree. And so that, then that's really 899 00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,110 that's that's the issue. I don't think we can move forward until 900 00:58:31,110 --> 00:58:34,110 we have an answer. Do we have an answer to that question? Because 901 00:58:34,110 --> 00:58:37,290 that's the prioritization question. I think we can. I 902 00:58:37,290 --> 00:58:39,960 think we can plow ahead and come up with something on that. That 903 00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,050 makes sense, right. But the issue of where it gets resolved, 904 00:58:43,770 --> 00:58:44,160 if 905 00:58:44,220 --> 00:58:46,620 Adam Curry: I'm sorry, could you explain the prioritization one 906 00:58:46,620 --> 00:58:48,750 more time, just so I understand what's happening there? 907 00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,320 Dave Jones: Well, that was just an issue of like, do do we keep? 908 00:58:52,860 --> 00:58:55,860 So in one. So with that you have it, let's say you have a value 909 00:58:55,860 --> 00:58:58,920 recipient, and it's got to end the value recipient is of type 910 00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:06,780 key send, instead of type node, then now do you still keep the 911 00:59:06,780 --> 00:59:10,260 node address attribute in there and also have a key send 912 00:59:10,260 --> 00:59:15,270 address? And you just say, okay, hey, clients, try key send 913 00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:20,820 address first. If that fails, then fall back to try the node. 914 00:59:20,820 --> 00:59:23,790 Id got it. That's a little it can get a little squirrely. 915 00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:24,810 Yeah, 916 00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,110 Adam Curry: hold on a second. Try the keys and address first 917 00:59:28,110 --> 00:59:33,090 so so there's there will be a fail basically, on my on my 918 00:59:33,090 --> 00:59:37,200 blocks, first, it will be a fail. So why do we why are we 919 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,780 giving that priority? Am I standing? 920 00:59:40,020 --> 00:59:42,630 Dave Jones: Yeah, you're misunderstands the values. This 921 00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:47,430 is only if the value recipient type is equal to keys and if it 922 00:59:47,430 --> 00:59:50,850 remained if your value recipient type is no like it's always been 923 00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,470 not an issue because the because the key said address attribute 924 00:59:55,470 --> 00:59:58,950 is not even going to be in the tag. Okay, got it. Yeah, but 925 00:59:59,700 --> 01:00:04,530 this I don't, I was hoping to wrap this up quickly. But that 926 01:00:05,460 --> 01:00:10,260 that issue of of something like cast ematic, potentially having 927 01:00:10,260 --> 01:00:14,580 to resolve multiple addresses before they can even do the 928 01:00:14,580 --> 01:00:20,310 lookups. Like, that's just that is a that's a showstopper man. 929 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:25,410 And I think if if Albie or whoever is, you know, whichever 930 01:00:25,410 --> 01:00:30,870 API's are providing the payment services, if they can put the 931 01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:34,920 if, if they want this, I feel like they should put it into 932 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:39,510 their API to allow this to be resolved on their end. Because 933 01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:43,590 it's, it's such a heavy lift for a client to have to send 934 01:00:43,590 --> 01:00:48,960 potentially dozens of HTTP requests before they can start, 935 01:00:49,110 --> 01:00:53,280 pay, even start the payment. Yes, caching and all that stuff. 936 01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,070 But you don't have a lot of clients that state to have to 937 01:00:56,070 --> 01:00:57,180 handle. But 938 01:00:57,210 --> 01:01:00,360 Adam Curry: so so when you have an app that is just used to 939 01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:05,550 sending a key send payment, what does the app developer have to 940 01:01:05,550 --> 01:01:09,210 change now? Do they have to talk to the Alby API? 941 01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:14,250 Dave Jones: Well, if they so regarding the whole 942 01:01:14,250 --> 01:01:16,320 Adam Curry: lightning idea, doesn't it? Well, 943 01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:21,570 Dave Jones: the way it would ideally work is if you have if 944 01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,450 they're going through and making a payment to a value recipient 945 01:01:24,450 --> 01:01:31,530 who has a type of node, then per excuse me a type of send keys 946 01:01:31,530 --> 01:01:37,920 and then they would have a link, grab the add the address out of 947 01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:43,860 there. And just give it to the Albie API and say, here's how 948 01:01:43,860 --> 01:01:46,350 much to send. And you're done. Stephen 949 01:01:46,350 --> 01:01:50,850 Adam Curry: crater with weighs in? And we take this advice from 950 01:01:50,850 --> 01:01:54,750 him seriously? Yes, the app should look up the well known 951 01:01:54,750 --> 01:01:58,380 and use the Node Info in the return JSON data, no special 952 01:01:58,380 --> 01:02:00,060 API. That's what he says. 953 01:02:02,070 --> 01:02:06,360 Dave Jones: Use the Node Info in the return JSON data that the 954 01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,880 apps themselves the client, yeah, 955 01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,570 Adam Curry: that's it. But that's, uh, now they could cache 956 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,170 they could cache but it is it is it is extra work was 957 01:02:16,170 --> 01:02:19,050 Dave Jones: a year because then you got state? You know, I mean, 958 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,170 then you got to deal, then you got to deal with one of the two 959 01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,190 hardest things in, you know, in programming cache invalidation. 960 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,060 When do you have? You know, I don't know. It's just, it just 961 01:02:30,060 --> 01:02:35,190 seems like, it seems like the server side to me, the API side 962 01:02:35,850 --> 01:02:39,600 is the right place to do this. I mean, it's like, it's like 963 01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,710 asking, you know, it's like saying, Okay, well, I'm getting 964 01:02:43,710 --> 01:02:46,800 all this stuff, all my all of my feed data from the podcast index 965 01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:51,480 API. But whenever I see a domain name, I'm gonna have to resolve 966 01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:55,680 that myself and only ask podcast index API for IP addresses. 967 01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:56,280 Right? 968 01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,680 Adam Curry: But but now we're taking the beauty of the 969 01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,680 Lightning Network out of the equation almost. And you're just 970 01:03:01,710 --> 01:03:05,250 you're just doing an API call to a wallet. But 971 01:03:05,250 --> 01:03:07,560 Dave Jones: that's what they're doing already, though. Like, 972 01:03:07,590 --> 01:03:10,800 like with like, with cast ematic. And in pod verse, 973 01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,770 they're not doing direct communication with the Lightning 974 01:03:13,770 --> 01:03:16,440 Network. They're using LB is there, right, 975 01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,750 Adam Curry: but in that case, but now we're talking that you 976 01:03:18,750 --> 01:03:22,590 have lbs send, and then I'll be as received so you so now the 977 01:03:22,590 --> 01:03:26,820 sending wallet, let's just say that cast thematic was using the 978 01:03:26,820 --> 01:03:32,820 FUBAR wallet, which just knows how to send key send. Now that 979 01:03:32,820 --> 01:03:34,380 wallet now has to change. 980 01:03:37,410 --> 01:03:40,980 Dave Jones: The way it sends? I don't think so. No, no, no, 981 01:03:40,980 --> 01:03:44,700 because Because Alby in this, in this instance, Abby would be 982 01:03:44,700 --> 01:03:47,310 doing the would they be doing the resolution, Alby would be 983 01:03:47,310 --> 01:03:50,310 handling node IDs the way it always did under the covers? 984 01:03:50,610 --> 01:03:52,620 Right? Initially resolve it, 985 01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,560 Adam Curry: but that's okay. But now, 986 01:03:56,670 --> 01:03:59,160 Dave Jones: so like, it's so take, take the example of you 987 01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:04,620 have, you have your Umbral or your start nine attached to your 988 01:04:04,620 --> 01:04:05,400 Alby account, 989 01:04:05,670 --> 01:04:08,190 Adam Curry: you but let's say I don't, okay. Let's just say I 990 01:04:08,190 --> 01:04:11,790 don't to make because Because yeah, now now the sending and 991 01:04:11,790 --> 01:04:15,120 the receiving is being done on the lb Wallet. So it's really 992 01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,030 just an API call is not even a lightning payment. 993 01:04:19,530 --> 01:04:20,700 Dave Jones: You see what I'm saying? You're talking about 994 01:04:20,700 --> 01:04:21,990 from an lb to an lb. 995 01:04:23,790 --> 01:04:29,220 Adam Curry: I'm talking. This is confusing, well in and I think 996 01:04:29,220 --> 01:04:31,920 in this case is good that I'm stupid because I can ask the 997 01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,980 dumb question. So let's say I'm going from an Alby wallet to a 998 01:04:34,980 --> 01:04:39,570 fountain wallet. How did how does that work in this scenario 999 01:04:39,570 --> 01:04:41,130 was looking up on the API? 1000 01:04:42,690 --> 01:04:47,400 Dave Jones: Okay, so on fountain let's say you have a podcast 1001 01:04:48,660 --> 01:04:56,100 that is hosted hostless a podcast is hosted@rss.com and 1002 01:04:56,580 --> 01:05:01,020 the podcaster claimed it on fountain Yeah, and added their 1003 01:05:01,890 --> 01:05:06,720 added their note, note information, which which in this 1004 01:05:06,750 --> 01:05:11,340 case would be something like dave@fountain.fm. Right, added 1005 01:05:11,340 --> 01:05:16,680 their address to their feed that gets sent to podcasts index API. 1006 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:23,640 Now pod verse goes to send a payment to that podcaster. They 1007 01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:28,920 see the address, make a request to albies API to send 1000 SATs 1008 01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:34,590 to dave@fountain.fm. I'll be resolved that fountain.fm into 1009 01:05:34,590 --> 01:05:40,770 the long hex string of have the node ID, the lightning node ID 1010 01:05:40,770 --> 01:05:45,000 that that it resolves to. Then since the keys in payment, 1011 01:05:45,030 --> 01:05:46,320 Adam Curry: how was it resolving it? 1012 01:05:47,940 --> 01:05:49,320 Dave Jones: Using the dot well known? 1013 01:05:50,940 --> 01:05:52,800 Adam Curry: So the wallet does the resolution. 1014 01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,000 Dave Jones: The the API making the payment would do the 1015 01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:04,140 resolution? If if it's going through an API, like like so 1016 01:06:04,140 --> 01:06:07,500 for, you know, in this regard, pod verse never does anything 1017 01:06:07,500 --> 01:06:11,520 itself, it always uses lb, right. So I'm saying that I'm 1018 01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:16,320 saying that if lb wants this functionality, they should 1019 01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,650 provide the address resolution services. So the clients don't 1020 01:06:19,650 --> 01:06:20,940 have to do anything diff. So 1021 01:06:20,940 --> 01:06:24,510 Adam Curry: let's say there's a podcast app. And I'm just 1022 01:06:24,540 --> 01:06:29,970 imagining something crazy. Let's say that I want to send this 1023 01:06:29,970 --> 01:06:33,570 payment from my own start nine node that I had, that's my 1024 01:06:33,570 --> 01:06:37,770 wallet, which is act technically not mounting, that's a thing 1025 01:06:37,770 --> 01:06:46,260 except through Guillermo is on was it called? 1026 01:06:47,460 --> 01:06:50,670 Dave Jones: The Chrome extension, pod station, pod 1027 01:06:50,670 --> 01:06:51,150 station, 1028 01:06:51,180 --> 01:06:53,910 Adam Curry: pod station, I can connect to my own node. Now how 1029 01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:54,570 does it work? 1030 01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:04,560 Dave Jones: The in that, in that situation? Since there is no API 1031 01:07:04,590 --> 01:07:08,190 intermediary API, pod station would have to do the resolution. 1032 01:07:08,460 --> 01:07:12,990 Adam Curry: Ah, that's where I have a problem. Okay, because 1033 01:07:12,990 --> 01:07:18,180 now pod station has to do has to talk to an API somewhere. So pod 1034 01:07:18,180 --> 01:07:19,470 station has to upgrade. 1035 01:07:20,490 --> 01:07:22,800 Dave Jones: Well, he does have to chain make a change, but it 1036 01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,410 wouldn't be talking to an API, he would just do an address 1037 01:07:25,410 --> 01:07:31,080 resolution lookup, which is just an HTTP request. Like his his 1038 01:07:31,140 --> 01:07:35,910 his example, maybe not be, maybe it's not a great one, because 1039 01:07:36,690 --> 01:07:40,920 it's mostly a desktop app and a browser extension. And the 1040 01:07:40,950 --> 01:07:43,800 speeds and everything are probably not going to be a very 1041 01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:48,660 big deal. It's a bigger deal when you when you have something 1042 01:07:48,660 --> 01:07:52,890 like, curio caster, or and let's say antenna pod, if they did 1043 01:07:52,890 --> 01:07:55,410 value for value payments, where they don't have, they don't have 1044 01:07:55,410 --> 01:07:58,920 they have no server, they have no infrastructure is really just 1045 01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:04,080 all client side. In that you really don't want to have to do 1046 01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:09,600 all those HTTP recall calls on a mobile app. Just in order to get 1047 01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,150 yourself set up to do an API call, just do it. 1048 01:08:12,930 --> 01:08:16,260 Adam Curry: I think that maybe I'm confusing or conflating 1049 01:08:16,290 --> 01:08:19,230 issues. The reason why I'm bringing this up is I'm as you 1050 01:08:19,230 --> 01:08:26,190 know, I'm a staunch supporter of non custodial wallets, non 1051 01:08:26,190 --> 01:08:30,150 custodial systems, and we're already seeing the groaning and 1052 01:08:30,150 --> 01:08:35,940 creaking. And I think we all got a slight, like, a mini heart 1053 01:08:35,940 --> 01:08:39,540 attack when I'll be stopped. Now, it's all going to be okay. 1054 01:08:39,870 --> 01:08:45,390 But when Alby said Oh, no new accounts, right? You know, I 1055 01:08:45,390 --> 01:08:49,170 think we should always, always, always keep in mind, a 1056 01:08:49,170 --> 01:08:52,830 decentralized world, especially when it comes to the payments. 1057 01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:58,110 And we've now centralized ourselves into a box. Right? I 1058 01:08:58,110 --> 01:09:03,390 feel that I would like to use pod verse on my own node. I 1059 01:09:03,390 --> 01:09:06,960 can't. But I would like to, I think we need to start thinking 1060 01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,720 about that as we make these changes. 1061 01:09:13,979 --> 01:09:20,729 Dave Jones: Yeah, well, this is, this is this is the big, this is 1062 01:09:20,729 --> 01:09:24,869 the big issue. I mean, like, once you talk about anything, 1063 01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:29,399 this is, this is not just a Crip crip to you know, cryptocurrency 1064 01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:32,729 issues, not just a bitcoin is I know, I know, it's true for 1065 01:09:32,729 --> 01:09:37,049 every thing. I mean, like, anytime you talk about anytime 1066 01:09:37,049 --> 01:09:40,799 you bring in payment infrastructure into anything. 1067 01:09:41,579 --> 01:09:46,529 Now you have to think about what's the A, what API are you 1068 01:09:46,529 --> 01:09:50,429 going to use? And are you gonna go try to do it very direct? Are 1069 01:09:50,429 --> 01:09:54,929 you going to try to use like a layered API like Stripe, plaid, 1070 01:09:55,469 --> 01:09:58,799 or something like that? I mean, these are these are sort of 1071 01:09:58,799 --> 01:10:03,389 universal questions when it It comes to this this type of, of 1072 01:10:03,389 --> 01:10:11,939 thing. And, you know, lb you know, so the lb thing. Yeah, 1073 01:10:11,939 --> 01:10:13,859 you're right. It gave everybody a heart attack because it's 1074 01:10:13,859 --> 01:10:16,799 like, well, they've been, you know, they've been growing. 1075 01:10:16,829 --> 01:10:20,189 They've clearly, you know, I'm trying to get him on the show, 1076 01:10:20,189 --> 01:10:25,109 and I will soon. They couldn't make it this week. But you know, 1077 01:10:25,109 --> 01:10:31,499 clearly, clearly they've grown way faster than they were could 1078 01:10:31,499 --> 01:10:32,129 handle. 1079 01:10:33,569 --> 01:10:36,149 Adam Curry: If you look at the telegram group, I've seen a lot 1080 01:10:36,149 --> 01:10:39,269 of Chinese people. And I'm nothing I'm, I'm not going to be 1081 01:10:39,269 --> 01:10:42,629 racist, but I'm going to be for a second. When you see the 1082 01:10:42,629 --> 01:10:45,899 Chinese showing up, you'd like Oh, man. Yeah, I would be 1083 01:10:45,899 --> 01:10:50,069 worried myself like, okay, or is it Korean? Or is it North 1084 01:10:50,069 --> 01:10:53,159 Korean, South Korean? What are these guys wanting? There's 1085 01:10:53,159 --> 01:10:55,799 people building bots off of their services. And there's all 1086 01:10:55,799 --> 01:10:59,699 kinds of stuff going on. I once I dived into what's going on 1087 01:10:59,699 --> 01:11:02,489 over there. I mean, it's not it's one thing to have 1088 01:11:02,489 --> 01:11:07,709 podcasting 2.0 API. I'm not sure even the how much, you know, the 1089 01:11:07,709 --> 01:11:11,579 taxing amount of the noster stuff. I have no idea. But I can 1090 01:11:11,579 --> 01:11:14,369 see there's a lot of people doing stuff on their API that 1091 01:11:14,369 --> 01:11:15,599 would have me freaked out. 1092 01:11:17,130 --> 01:11:19,170 Dave Jones: Was Yeah, I think you're right, I think that's 1093 01:11:19,170 --> 01:11:24,420 probably very much could be a spam defense measure, 1094 01:11:24,450 --> 01:11:28,110 Adam Curry: I would think so. Well, the million SATs limit was 1095 01:11:28,290 --> 01:11:31,710 the obvious canary in the coal mine. They're like, Hey, guys, 1096 01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:36,750 our mission is we're just a small provider for small day to 1097 01:11:36,750 --> 01:11:41,610 day payments makes total sense. But now we're look people are 1098 01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,040 Ms, a whole bunch of things going on at the same time. And 1099 01:11:44,070 --> 01:11:49,740 all I'm saying is and I have no business, being able to really 1100 01:11:49,740 --> 01:11:55,200 given opinion about this about the API stuff, and who does what 1101 01:11:55,440 --> 01:12:00,480 other than I would like to see, at all times, we always think 1102 01:12:00,480 --> 01:12:07,650 about sovereignty. So I agree. And, and this has kind of been 1103 01:12:07,650 --> 01:12:13,050 bugging me for a long time, but I would really like to just use 1104 01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:17,550 is handy to have Alby. And now B is also my login for five 1105 01:12:17,550 --> 01:12:22,170 things, you know, which creeps me out because of Alby goes 1106 01:12:22,170 --> 01:12:25,860 down, I can't get into you know, I can't get into stuff like 1107 01:12:25,860 --> 01:12:29,190 split kit, I won't be able to use it. Who knows what will 1108 01:12:29,190 --> 01:12:33,450 happen? So I just want to make sure that we we keep the 1109 01:12:33,480 --> 01:12:40,050 ultimate future, which will have I can guarantee you there will 1110 01:12:40,050 --> 01:12:45,930 be a day when we will need to have a sovereign self hosted I 1111 01:12:45,930 --> 01:12:50,400 think is the term but your own noncustodial wallet capability 1112 01:12:50,430 --> 01:12:54,120 for this? I can see it coming. 1113 01:12:57,090 --> 01:12:59,070 Dave Jones: Probably, yeah, you're probably right. 1114 01:12:59,099 --> 01:13:02,999 Adam Curry: So I don't want this little like, like heart shock we 1115 01:13:02,999 --> 01:13:07,079 got the other day. I can only imagine. 1116 01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:12,990 Dave Jones: Well, you know, I think on a long enough, on a 1117 01:13:12,990 --> 01:13:17,100 long enough time scale, who I don't nobody can say how long. 1118 01:13:18,210 --> 01:13:24,600 But I think on enough of a timescale, this. The these feel 1119 01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:28,620 like growing pains of the oven that are natural, 1120 01:13:28,649 --> 01:13:30,539 Adam Curry: oh, look at the quality of the problem. And this 1121 01:13:30,539 --> 01:13:33,449 is these are great problems to have. I'm excited about that. 1122 01:13:34,079 --> 01:13:34,349 Yeah, 1123 01:13:34,349 --> 01:13:38,729 Dave Jones: so you you're gonna have, like, there's the issue 1124 01:13:38,729 --> 01:13:42,329 here is that the issue here is that lightning is trying to do 1125 01:13:42,329 --> 01:13:50,159 something in general, that is very, I don't want to it's Well, 1126 01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:55,379 I can't say it's trying to do something that's new. Like 1127 01:13:55,409 --> 01:14:00,869 lightning is doing is providing small, like micro transaction 1128 01:14:00,869 --> 01:14:09,809 level liquidity in a way that is, in a way this maintain some 1129 01:14:09,809 --> 01:14:15,059 level of sovereignty, that is in his peer to peer that is very 1130 01:14:15,059 --> 01:14:25,019 difficult to do on scale with Bitcoin, because that's not have 1131 01:14:25,019 --> 01:14:28,859 the coin was built, wasn't built for the micro transaction stuff. 1132 01:14:29,789 --> 01:14:33,839 So it's trying to do something new. And this is this was a 1133 01:14:33,839 --> 01:14:37,799 predictable growing pain because you you've got, like, you can 1134 01:14:37,799 --> 01:14:41,069 see where we are. And let me try to be more clear on and I'm 1135 01:14:41,489 --> 01:14:45,449 being hard to understand here. But like, you can even see like 1136 01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,119 think about where we were everybody running their own 1137 01:14:48,119 --> 01:14:55,199 node, one lnd, sphinx voltage or whatever, right? Then you have 1138 01:14:56,219 --> 01:15:01,229 Ellen pay, which is sort of next step. If first step of evolution 1139 01:15:01,229 --> 01:15:07,079 there. LB which is next step of evolution project out into the 1140 01:15:07,079 --> 01:15:15,749 future and you have you have something Greenlight esque. That 1141 01:15:15,749 --> 01:15:23,249 is that is sovereign. That is good noncustodial but still is 1142 01:15:23,249 --> 01:15:27,839 May is portable, right? Like, how's the trend cloud vs. We're 1143 01:15:27,839 --> 01:15:31,259 trying to get from where we are now to where it to that thing. 1144 01:15:31,979 --> 01:15:37,529 And like that's a that's what the next X amount of time is 1145 01:15:37,529 --> 01:15:41,879 going to be like. It's we're getting there. But it's just a 1146 01:15:41,879 --> 01:15:45,119 hard transition to make and like, look at what Alex had to 1147 01:15:45,119 --> 01:15:49,229 do with no agenda to I mean, no agenda to he had to shut down 1148 01:15:49,229 --> 01:15:53,099 signups on that because of spam signups. You can only imagine 1149 01:15:53,099 --> 01:15:58,529 what, you know, what it what the spam volume and hat and huckster 1150 01:15:58,529 --> 01:16:02,129 volume is, when you know, when you're talking about a payment 1151 01:16:02,129 --> 01:16:06,839 platform. Now, it's now it's just off the chart, you know, so 1152 01:16:06,899 --> 01:16:10,079 that, it surprises me that they didn't run into this problem 1153 01:16:10,079 --> 01:16:16,979 sooner. And when it comes when you get to that day, where your 1154 01:16:16,979 --> 01:16:22,379 spam signup volume is, it, it's like every, it's like it's a 1155 01:16:22,379 --> 01:16:26,069 trickle and a trickle and then a flood, right. And when that day 1156 01:16:26,069 --> 01:16:29,429 hits, it's heartburn. And you, you really don't know what else 1157 01:16:29,429 --> 01:16:32,849 to do other than just like stop sign ups and say, you've got to 1158 01:16:32,849 --> 01:16:37,769 email me so we can vet you who the human being Yeah. But I feel 1159 01:16:37,769 --> 01:16:40,259 like, I feel like we're in this is why I want to get him on the 1160 01:16:40,259 --> 01:16:43,829 show. So we can hear so we can talk about, like, get an idea 1161 01:16:43,829 --> 01:16:45,959 what the future plans are. And they've talked, you know, they 1162 01:16:45,959 --> 01:16:48,809 talked about on office hours the other day, it sounds like their 1163 01:16:48,809 --> 01:16:53,459 future plans are exactly what we've, what we're thinking they 1164 01:16:53,459 --> 01:16:57,929 probably are. But they just had this like, you know, they had 1165 01:16:57,929 --> 01:17:00,929 some some event that happened where they were like, Oh, crap, 1166 01:17:01,049 --> 01:17:07,499 right. So I don't know. I mean, it's still the best is still the 1167 01:17:07,499 --> 01:17:12,959 best solution for for for PI for 2.0. Apps. Yeah, now it's out 1168 01:17:12,959 --> 01:17:13,439 there. Right. 1169 01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:17,459 Adam Curry: But but but as we move forward. So we we come back 1170 01:17:17,459 --> 01:17:25,709 to the original question. Do we have who who does the lookup and 1171 01:17:25,979 --> 01:17:27,299 and how was that handled? 1172 01:17:29,819 --> 01:17:32,579 Dave Jones: I don't see how we can move forward with a with a 1173 01:17:32,579 --> 01:17:38,339 proposal that where the lookups have to happen client side? 1174 01:17:40,979 --> 01:17:43,289 Well, let me let me take that back. That was the wrong way to 1175 01:17:43,289 --> 01:17:47,969 say that. I don't see how we move forward until we have until 1176 01:17:47,969 --> 01:17:50,969 we have lb tail and I've asked them this in the discussion 1177 01:17:50,969 --> 01:17:57,599 thread. If lb can provide the lookup for us. That I think that 1178 01:17:57,599 --> 01:18:03,539 needs to be, like I said it's like it's like expecting the 1179 01:18:03,539 --> 01:18:07,949 podcast index API to only deal with IP addresses and all the 1180 01:18:08,039 --> 01:18:10,799 the DNS host names have to be resolved before you send a 1181 01:18:10,799 --> 01:18:15,569 request. Right? It just doesn't seem like it's a mismatch. And 1182 01:18:15,629 --> 01:18:18,149 Alex is right. You know, he said, the wallet providers, 1183 01:18:18,689 --> 01:18:21,239 wallet providers can communicate with the feed hosts when the 1184 01:18:21,239 --> 01:18:26,249 lightning info changes like the pub key. That's come that there 1185 01:18:26,249 --> 01:18:31,169 again, that's completely the same it doesn't it that's for 1186 01:18:31,169 --> 01:18:35,249 set for self hosted feeds, like power press feeds, and those 1187 01:18:35,249 --> 01:18:38,099 kinds of things where you had this distributed mass of people 1188 01:18:38,099 --> 01:18:41,909 who may have the wrong node ID listed. That's a problem. You 1189 01:18:41,909 --> 01:18:47,159 know, and I think that's what prompted Oscar to bring this up 1190 01:18:47,159 --> 01:18:50,129 is because they've been having to track down podcasters, one at 1191 01:18:50,129 --> 01:18:53,039 a time and had to manually change their feeds. Right. 1192 01:18:53,039 --> 01:18:58,949 Right. But, you know, there could be some, you know, maybe 1193 01:18:58,949 --> 01:19:03,269 there's some proposal for a redirect. You know, I don't know 1194 01:19:03,269 --> 01:19:07,919 where it's like a node node ID to node ID redirect. I don't 1195 01:19:07,919 --> 01:19:10,949 know, we just, I just, I just feel like to get if the if they 1196 01:19:10,949 --> 01:19:14,999 want this in and they meaning that, you know, elbow via 1197 01:19:14,999 --> 01:19:18,479 fountain fountains already got a handle because their API 1198 01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,869 internally they do all these lookups. Right, like, you know, 1199 01:19:21,869 --> 01:19:25,139 they, it's all internal to them. So you don't have to they don't, 1200 01:19:25,319 --> 01:19:28,049 it's not going to be a burden on them. But it is going to be a 1201 01:19:28,049 --> 01:19:31,169 burden on the other 2.0 apps if they have to do this themselves. 1202 01:19:31,859 --> 01:19:34,469 And I think if Alby can come back to that to the discussion 1203 01:19:34,469 --> 01:19:38,549 and say, oh, yeah, we'll change our API, we'll we'll add an 1204 01:19:38,549 --> 01:19:42,419 extra tweak to it so that you can send an a, like a key send 1205 01:19:42,419 --> 01:19:46,199 address instead of a lightning node address that I think that 1206 01:19:46,199 --> 01:19:47,849 would solve the whole thing. We'll just go we'll just go 1207 01:19:47,849 --> 01:19:49,109 ahead and make that change and be done with 1208 01:19:49,110 --> 01:19:52,110 Adam Curry: it. Okay, well, balls in their court, then. 1209 01:19:52,530 --> 01:19:57,210 Yeah, they're having me and let's see Brooklyn 112 As your 1210 01:19:57,210 --> 01:20:02,400 resident conspiracy therapists, so Hey, brother to help us how 1211 01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:05,580 he is going through a natural progression. See, Brooklyn's? 1212 01:20:05,580 --> 01:20:09,660 Like, maybe the music spoke to him. No, no, don't don't I don't 1213 01:20:09,660 --> 01:20:11,550 think you need to look too far into this. 1214 01:20:12,719 --> 01:20:14,759 Dave Jones: yet. I think you're right. When when the same thing 1215 01:20:14,759 --> 01:20:17,579 happened with noster Olson, he, you know, starts getting blasted 1216 01:20:17,579 --> 01:20:21,029 with Chinese spam. Yeah. Once that stuff starts, man, I mean, 1217 01:20:21,029 --> 01:20:24,899 it's such a bad day. It's just such crap. 1218 01:20:25,109 --> 01:20:28,019 Adam Curry: And you know, and exactly. And now that is the, 1219 01:20:28,709 --> 01:20:31,559 you know, I hear Sam Sethi complaining about the spam 1220 01:20:31,559 --> 01:20:35,369 advertising. A doesn't have a filter on on Al B, these are all 1221 01:20:35,369 --> 01:20:39,239 the things those guys we're looking at. I mean, I mean, span 1222 01:20:39,239 --> 01:20:43,289 vertising. Yeah, it may be cute, but I can see all the problems 1223 01:20:43,289 --> 01:20:43,649 with that. 1224 01:20:43,679 --> 01:20:46,799 Dave Jones: Ah, there's a call. There's a cost to every 1225 01:20:46,799 --> 01:20:51,299 transaction thing. Yeah. Yeah. And the other the other thing in 1226 01:20:51,299 --> 01:20:56,699 the namespace was deprecation. So as of split off, there's now 1227 01:20:56,699 --> 01:21:02,039 a deprecation proposals section in the discussion forum. So if 1228 01:21:02,039 --> 01:21:05,399 somebody if any, does any discussion, any talk about 1229 01:21:05,909 --> 01:21:09,389 deprecating a tag or getting rid of an attribute or anything like 1230 01:21:09,389 --> 01:21:12,209 that? Let's move it all over there. 1231 01:21:15,180 --> 01:21:18,750 Adam Curry: Ah, this is James's, get it out of the namespace 1232 01:21:18,750 --> 01:21:19,110 part. 1233 01:21:20,399 --> 01:21:23,939 Dave Jones: Yeah, yes. So we'll we'll talk about all that. And 1234 01:21:23,939 --> 01:21:27,659 it. I'm cool with him in a formal deprecation section. That 1235 01:21:27,659 --> 01:21:30,239 way we can talk about because I mean, there's I'm fine with 1236 01:21:30,239 --> 01:21:35,129 deprecating things but we need to move price segregate that off 1237 01:21:35,129 --> 01:21:40,109 into its own thing so that we can because deprecation is flame 1238 01:21:40,109 --> 01:21:41,009 war city. 1239 01:21:41,730 --> 01:21:43,890 Adam Curry: Yeah, that belongs listen little section of the 1240 01:21:43,890 --> 01:21:45,420 city. Yeah, because 1241 01:21:45,420 --> 01:21:47,610 Dave Jones: everybody's gonna get pissed at each other. That's 1242 01:21:47,610 --> 01:21:51,120 not that's so let's keep let's just kind of isolate it. 1243 01:21:51,629 --> 01:21:53,909 Adam Curry: Let me read off a couple of we got a lot of people 1244 01:21:53,909 --> 01:21:56,909 responding through boosted grams. We don't even have to 1245 01:21:56,909 --> 01:22:02,009 start the segment here. But let me just run down the list. See 1246 01:22:02,009 --> 01:22:06,509 Brooklyn 112 with a nice row ducks brother 22,002 and 22. 1247 01:22:06,509 --> 01:22:09,239 Let's keep this going boys. Okay, good. So the conspiracy 1248 01:22:09,239 --> 01:22:14,639 therapy worked. net net 30,000 SATs Merry Xmas movie house I 1249 01:22:14,639 --> 01:22:20,579 mean boardroom. There Steven with 1000 SATs we just read that 1250 01:22:20,579 --> 01:22:24,539 one Sam Sethi has been boosting all along 10,000 SATs if hosts 1251 01:22:24,539 --> 01:22:28,349 would support alternate enclosure and video. Then true 1252 01:22:28,349 --> 01:22:31,769 fans would not have to offer this feature. We could just read 1253 01:22:31,769 --> 01:22:37,169 it from the RSS feed. Well, yes. Sam. Sam likes doing things 1254 01:22:37,169 --> 01:22:40,619 backwards. Blueberries and forums video podcasting, but not 1255 01:22:40,619 --> 01:22:44,099 also the enclosure. Does any host support alternate 1256 01:22:44,099 --> 01:22:52,199 enclosure? Except sovereign fees has it now. This power press had 1257 01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:57,509 we'll see what Sam is doing is interesting. I'm not sure I 1258 01:22:57,509 --> 01:23:02,219 agree with this method. But it's It's fine by me. i What I've 1259 01:23:02,219 --> 01:23:06,389 liked is we come up with an idea. And then it goes typically 1260 01:23:06,389 --> 01:23:11,189 into the podcasting 2.0 Feed first, because Steven bells just 1261 01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:15,599 crazy and he builds everything. And then from there, tags flow 1262 01:23:15,599 --> 01:23:18,329 out and stuff starts to happen. Now the alternate enclosure is 1263 01:23:18,359 --> 01:23:22,409 already a tag I believe, as had been a tag or it's not official 1264 01:23:22,409 --> 01:23:24,479 Dave Jones: title yet. No, it's in there. It's been in there. 1265 01:23:24,509 --> 01:23:25,859 Yep. So Sam likes 1266 01:23:25,860 --> 01:23:28,500 Adam Curry: to give people these features before they're in the 1267 01:23:28,500 --> 01:23:32,940 feeds. Yes. Which is a way to do it. Peer 1268 01:23:32,939 --> 01:23:34,559 Dave Jones: tube supports alternate enclosure. 1269 01:23:35,340 --> 01:23:39,240 Adam Curry: Right. So 1270 01:23:40,229 --> 01:23:41,669 Dave Jones: and disk topia does, 1271 01:23:41,910 --> 01:23:44,520 Adam Curry: so but I can tell you right now blueberries never 1272 01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:49,290 going to do alternate enclosure. So just forget it. Todd doesn't 1273 01:23:49,290 --> 01:23:50,760 want to do it. That's his prerogative. 1274 01:23:50,790 --> 01:23:51,930 Dave Jones: Yeah, he will. He will 1275 01:23:53,189 --> 01:23:56,729 Adam Curry: know he won't know he won't. I it's it's his own 1276 01:23:56,729 --> 01:23:57,839 business reasons. 1277 01:23:58,350 --> 01:24:00,390 Dave Jones: It will wear him down we want. 1278 01:24:01,229 --> 01:24:03,599 Adam Curry: I'm not gonna wear him down. I'm like, gotta be 1279 01:24:03,599 --> 01:24:04,199 part of that. 1280 01:24:05,850 --> 01:24:07,290 Dave Jones: outtake I'll take the bait. 1281 01:24:07,409 --> 01:24:09,719 Adam Curry: I mean, I'm, I'm publishing I'm going to start 1282 01:24:09,719 --> 01:24:11,759 publishing alternate enclosures for sure. 1283 01:24:12,510 --> 01:24:13,920 Dave Jones: I'm gonna send him Christmas presents. 1284 01:24:15,359 --> 01:24:17,729 Adam Curry: Send him a stream deck. It works wonders. 1285 01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:19,019 Dave Jones: No. 1286 01:24:21,930 --> 01:24:24,630 Adam Curry: Well, this is weird because typically he's the 1287 01:24:24,660 --> 01:24:28,860 delimiter but we got 10,000 SATs from CSV just 15 minutes ago. 1288 01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:35,820 Marry pod met podcast mess podcasting. 2.0 Yo, CSB. We got 1289 01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:41,130 another Sam Sethi. 10,000 SATs is not a video hack is using 1290 01:24:41,130 --> 01:24:44,820 YouTube as a free host next week we will offer free video hosting 1291 01:24:44,820 --> 01:24:52,740 on on true fans so we will host directly before IPFS. Well, I 1292 01:24:52,740 --> 01:24:58,140 will say the YouTube stuff is much easier on a web app than it 1293 01:24:58,140 --> 01:25:03,390 is in a in a native app for sure, because you can just do an 1294 01:25:03,390 --> 01:25:07,050 iframe or whatever or just or just embedded I guess the 1295 01:25:07,050 --> 01:25:09,030 embedded tag look 1296 01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:12,180 Dave Jones: Todd said in the chat for you to pace maybe 1297 01:25:12,180 --> 01:25:14,760 alternate enclosure sees already cracking Wow 1298 01:25:14,759 --> 01:25:16,769 Adam Curry: take the stream deck back the cracks 1299 01:25:17,789 --> 01:25:21,149 Dave Jones: the cracks are already forming Oh, he's a 1300 01:25:21,149 --> 01:25:21,779 pushover I 1301 01:25:21,780 --> 01:25:30,930 Adam Curry: got that was easy nothing but now are you seeing 1302 01:25:30,930 --> 01:25:34,470 Bagon 1111 Thank you OYSTEIN Merry Christmas to you phantom 1303 01:25:34,470 --> 01:25:39,960 power. That's from the Phantom Power Hour. 1000 SATs Dobby Das 1304 01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:44,970 is the bee's knees D and there's Dobby das with 1000 SATs with 1305 01:25:44,970 --> 01:25:49,140 his says that video worked on all of the apps 7500 from Dolby 1306 01:25:49,140 --> 01:25:52,200 das download downloads are really the best podcast metric 1307 01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:55,590 according to Opie three. Podcasting. 2.0 has a massive 1308 01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:57,750 fan base in Nepal. That's right. 1309 01:25:59,550 --> 01:26:04,170 Dave Jones: We're huge in Nepal. at base camp, everybody listens 1310 01:26:04,170 --> 01:26:06,630 to us at base camp before they climb K two as 1311 01:26:06,629 --> 01:26:10,739 Adam Curry: well. We need that out T shirt. We're big in Nepal. 1312 01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:16,170 Dave Jones: I think we are literally big in Nepal. Nepalese 1313 01:26:16,170 --> 01:26:17,280 with a very small people. 1314 01:26:18,420 --> 01:26:21,630 Adam Curry: 10,000 SATs from Sam again evening from the UK true 1315 01:26:21,630 --> 01:26:25,080 fans is now open to all fans and live congratulations on the land 1316 01:26:25,110 --> 01:26:27,480 and the launches. And we've been waiting for this for a long 1317 01:26:27,480 --> 01:26:32,010 time. I know you have for sure. So we'd love that man. Another 1318 01:26:32,010 --> 01:26:34,920 1000 SATs from phantom power. What's up fellas? Happy Friday, 1319 01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:42,990 then we have oh, okay. This is Todd with 10,000 SATs. This is 1320 01:26:43,170 --> 01:26:47,730 his analysis of numbers very simple. And why most hosts stats 1321 01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,180 are down. It's largely tied to two things. Those that count of 1322 01:26:51,180 --> 01:26:54,840 download after 60 seconds of media delivered and the window 1323 01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:59,490 of time one looks at to qualify a download. Remember the IAB 1324 01:26:59,490 --> 01:27:02,520 spec and those certified only have to meet the guidelines and 1325 01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:07,140 not exceed the guidelines. tie that to Apple 17 changes are the 1326 01:27:07,500 --> 01:27:11,040 two Apple podcasts was a recipe for decline to those trying to 1327 01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:14,280 extract maximum downloads. Yeah. Which means it was the whole 1328 01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,880 thing is scammy. The whole industry is CME. Yeah, I gotcha. 1329 01:27:17,940 --> 01:27:22,560 We understand that. metus 5000 SATs is too late to set up a 1330 01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:26,880 boardroom Secret Santa gift exchange. Oh, well after that 1331 01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:31,290 for next year, I think. Yeah, I think next year, next year, next 1332 01:27:31,290 --> 01:27:35,610 year. Then we have the 25,000. From SAS that's from Todd that I 1333 01:27:35,610 --> 01:27:44,760 mentioned. And I think what's Linkin Park? Park rules 10,000 1334 01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,820 SATs have you guys checked out what pod home has been doing on 1335 01:27:47,820 --> 01:27:51,540 the hosting side? As a customer? It's been amazing to have access 1336 01:27:51,540 --> 01:27:54,870 to so many tools and tags. We'd love for them to make an 1337 01:27:54,870 --> 01:27:58,230 appearance on the show by IE. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, 1338 01:27:58,230 --> 01:27:59,700 definitely. Definitely. 1339 01:28:01,710 --> 01:28:04,680 Dave Jones: A few people I wanted to my my sort of guests 1340 01:28:04,710 --> 01:28:06,420 booking strategy for 1341 01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:10,380 Adam Curry: which has been lagging has been 1342 01:28:10,409 --> 01:28:12,959 Dave Jones: a strategy for the last month and a half has been 1343 01:28:12,959 --> 01:28:13,799 no strategy. 1344 01:28:13,830 --> 01:28:17,520 Adam Curry: Just no go no book, anybody. I love doing the 1345 01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:20,190 boardroom just the two of us. I mean, it's nice to have a guest 1346 01:28:20,190 --> 01:28:23,580 on but i i and this is my end of week therapy brother. I love 1347 01:28:23,580 --> 01:28:24,000 this. 1348 01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:27,540 Dave Jones: We needed we needed a guest break. We needed his 1349 01:28:27,540 --> 01:28:31,830 brain break and we needed to get a break. Yes. But my strategy 1350 01:28:31,830 --> 01:28:36,300 coming up is we'll have some podcast, podcast errs on and 1351 01:28:36,540 --> 01:28:40,620 then also Yeah, for Barry. I'm at pod home gonna get him on 1352 01:28:40,620 --> 01:28:45,180 Yeah, we get back in the swing of things. Yeah. I don't like 1353 01:28:45,180 --> 01:28:47,670 having guests on two weeks in a row. That's No, no, 1354 01:28:47,670 --> 01:28:50,070 Adam Curry: no, no, that's no good. No good. Yeah. 1355 01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,840 Dave Jones: We did. Or we think of people who want to go into 1356 01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:55,110 that. What 1357 01:28:55,110 --> 01:28:56,850 Adam Curry: did you have anything else on that? Have we 1358 01:28:56,850 --> 01:28:59,940 tackled all of the things that we needed to talk about? Not all 1359 01:28:59,940 --> 01:29:02,460 the other thing, what else do you have on your list? Well, 1360 01:29:02,460 --> 01:29:06,300 Dave Jones: I gotta get. I don't know if I want to get into that 1361 01:29:06,330 --> 01:29:06,990 necessarily. 1362 01:29:06,989 --> 01:29:08,519 Adam Curry: Tell me what it is that we're not going to get 1363 01:29:08,519 --> 01:29:09,569 into. So I can remember. 1364 01:29:10,619 --> 01:29:12,269 Dave Jones: It's aggregator stuff. And 1365 01:29:13,319 --> 01:29:15,239 Adam Curry: I gotta tell you been wanting to rewrite it, 1366 01:29:15,239 --> 01:29:15,869 haven't you? 1367 01:29:16,949 --> 01:29:19,889 Dave Jones: Yeah, I have but also sort of read, do the 1368 01:29:19,889 --> 01:29:24,599 structure of it. I have a drawn out a way I think sort of mapped 1369 01:29:24,599 --> 01:29:27,359 out a way that it can be decentralized. We can 1370 01:29:27,359 --> 01:29:32,309 decentralize the aggregation. But it's a big topic. It's too 1371 01:29:32,339 --> 01:29:33,479 we don't have enough time to go into 1372 01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:35,699 Adam Curry: all this also not something we start just before 1373 01:29:35,699 --> 01:29:40,889 the holidays. No, no projects for the holidays as bad ideas. 1374 01:29:41,370 --> 01:29:43,050 Dave Jones: It's like no change Fridays. Yeah. 1375 01:29:44,970 --> 01:29:46,500 Adam Curry: Exactly. But 1376 01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:50,460 Dave Jones: I guess the other thing is search improvements. 1377 01:29:51,720 --> 01:30:02,940 And this is this is tied to my now you know nor nor me. habit 1378 01:30:02,940 --> 01:30:07,620 of listening to the Gilmore Girls podcast is so this this. 1379 01:30:08,340 --> 01:30:14,010 This podcast is called I am all in. Do you first of all, as an 1380 01:30:14,010 --> 01:30:16,290 avid Gilmore Girls fan? Do you get this reference? 1381 01:30:16,829 --> 01:30:20,369 Adam Curry: Yes, I have my own Gilmore Girls story in a moment. 1382 01:30:21,510 --> 01:30:27,120 Dave Jones: Okay. This, I feel like I should be drinking a 1383 01:30:27,450 --> 01:30:34,080 grande flat wire from Starbucks right now. But the so the name 1384 01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:37,200 of this podcast is I am all in. So if you search for Gilmore 1385 01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:40,200 Girls in the podcast index, you do not get this podcast back. 1386 01:30:40,440 --> 01:30:46,050 Oh, nothing about this podcast is findable even though it is an 1387 01:30:46,050 --> 01:30:49,770 official podcast? You know, like for the show, it's well, that's 1388 01:30:49,770 --> 01:30:55,200 odd. Because it doesn't say Gilmore Girls anywhere. Any of 1389 01:30:55,200 --> 01:30:57,660 the index indexable things. So this 1390 01:30:57,660 --> 01:30:59,250 Adam Curry: is a this is a search problem, 1391 01:30:59,729 --> 01:31:04,859 Dave Jones: search problem. So I was thinking, we probably need 1392 01:31:04,859 --> 01:31:10,949 to have some way to add in some extra metadata in the dashboard. 1393 01:31:11,759 --> 01:31:16,079 So that if somebody notices a problem like this, I really 1394 01:31:16,079 --> 01:31:19,619 wanted to be able to go into the dashboard, find this podcast, 1395 01:31:19,829 --> 01:31:23,369 and type in a few extra keywords, Gilmore Girls, or 1396 01:31:23,369 --> 01:31:27,509 whatever. So that now so that the index can have some more 1397 01:31:27,509 --> 01:31:33,479 data to work with. Okay, that's all 1398 01:31:36,869 --> 01:31:39,599 Adam Curry: you want? I'm gonna give you my Gilmore Girls story. 1399 01:31:39,899 --> 01:31:44,219 Yeah, go for this was our COVID lockdown binge. 1400 01:31:45,210 --> 01:31:46,260 Dave Jones: Now it's a great binge. 1401 01:31:46,260 --> 01:31:49,770 Adam Curry: So yes, good. I was on the TV almost all day for no 1402 01:31:49,770 --> 01:31:55,020 agenda. You know, looking at every single new statement, 1403 01:31:55,020 --> 01:31:58,020 press conference, everything. I was just obsessed with figuring 1404 01:31:58,020 --> 01:32:02,310 out what was going on. And, but then at night, we'd watch the 1405 01:32:02,310 --> 01:32:08,550 Gilmore Girls. And somewhere in August of 2020, there was a no 1406 01:32:08,550 --> 01:32:12,540 agenda meetup in Las Vegas. It was the super spreader event. 1407 01:32:12,780 --> 01:32:17,100 And by the wait, no one was sick. No one got sick after this 1408 01:32:17,100 --> 01:32:20,940 event is and so we're there and there's this guy who had driven 1409 01:32:20,940 --> 01:32:24,480 from LA and I'm talking to him. And he says, Yeah, I was an 1410 01:32:24,480 --> 01:32:26,760 actor and I got out the business. I was just sick and 1411 01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:30,270 tired of it. And, you know, I've been doing I've been been 1412 01:32:30,270 --> 01:32:34,560 coaching people on some stuff and and I was like this, and 1413 01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:38,220 this maybe 6065 people there. And I'm just hooking this guy 1414 01:32:38,220 --> 01:32:41,220 and I'm like, you know, said, Hey, have I seen you in 1415 01:32:41,220 --> 01:32:44,730 anything? He says it's been a while. I don't know. Maybe not. 1416 01:32:44,730 --> 01:32:47,520 I played Rory. He's dad on Gilmore Girls. 1417 01:32:48,090 --> 01:32:48,480 Dave Jones: Oh, 1418 01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:51,719 Adam Curry: I'm like way. I went, oh my god, your worries 1419 01:32:51,719 --> 01:32:58,649 dad. And I started Sandra. He's dead. As Chris Chris. David 1420 01:32:58,649 --> 01:33:02,399 Sutcliffe is his name. And he has a podcast. And he actually 1421 01:33:02,399 --> 01:33:06,119 moved to Austin. Not long after that. So I was it was the 1422 01:33:06,119 --> 01:33:08,819 weirdest thing. I had an actual moment that many people have 1423 01:33:08,819 --> 01:33:10,679 done to me. I did it to him like 1424 01:33:14,909 --> 01:33:17,399 Dave Jones: this, what is what is his podcast? What is his 1425 01:33:17,399 --> 01:33:18,269 name? Crazy. But 1426 01:33:18,270 --> 01:33:21,540 Adam Curry: David David Sutcliffe. David Sutcliffe? 1427 01:33:22,649 --> 01:33:24,959 Dave Jones: Search and index fund is yeah, 1428 01:33:25,590 --> 01:33:28,530 Adam Curry: this psycho sphere. Yeah, that sounds about right. 1429 01:33:28,770 --> 01:33:30,990 Yeah. David Sutcliffe? 1430 01:33:31,289 --> 01:33:34,889 Dave Jones: Oh, it's current to he's doing it. Yeah. Return of 1431 01:33:34,889 --> 01:33:36,959 the Jew is the name of one of his episodes. 1432 01:33:37,260 --> 01:33:41,460 Adam Curry: He's pretty cool, man. He's got a shot. He's not 1433 01:33:41,460 --> 01:33:43,770 value for value, though. We should get him on value. 1434 01:33:43,950 --> 01:33:46,020 Dave Jones: He's not acting anymore. He now he's just he's, 1435 01:33:46,110 --> 01:33:48,060 he's in the podcast industrial complex. 1436 01:33:48,180 --> 01:33:54,900 Adam Curry: He actually he does. What is the what is the term? 1437 01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:00,180 likes he does sessions with multiple people, mainly women, I 1438 01:34:00,180 --> 01:34:03,090 think and they, you know, they do weekends and retreats and 1439 01:34:03,090 --> 01:34:06,090 they talk about their feelings. And 1440 01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:10,739 Dave Jones: does it my job is I do weekend retreats with women. 1441 01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:16,050 Adam Curry: I'm not saying it. Right. Like workshops, you know, 1442 01:34:16,650 --> 01:34:20,760 for for mental workshops and stuff. He's He's certified the 1443 01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:22,020 stuff he really got into that. 1444 01:34:22,650 --> 01:34:24,270 Dave Jones: Oh, cool. Okay, Nate. I'll 1445 01:34:24,270 --> 01:34:26,010 Adam Curry: check it out. Yeah, now he's cool. He's a cool, 1446 01:34:26,010 --> 01:34:27,120 dude. He's cool, dude. 1447 01:34:27,929 --> 01:34:31,049 Dave Jones: That's all this was. Thanks. Some people. Yes. Okay. 1448 01:34:33,420 --> 01:34:38,040 Adam Curry: I had one more that came in, actually to Carolyn 1449 01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:41,550 12,000 SATs. Merry Christmas. Adam and Dave love to see video 1450 01:34:41,550 --> 01:34:45,240 on pod verse. It's so cool. It is very cool. And Mike Newman 1451 01:34:45,270 --> 01:34:50,040 17,910 Big ups for the whole crew starting with musicians for 1452 01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:53,820 the innovation fueled by next week's concerts. The response to 1453 01:34:53,820 --> 01:34:56,550 updating the podcast index features for apps has been 1454 01:34:56,550 --> 01:34:59,790 really great. We point people to that it needs to show the 1455 01:34:59,790 --> 01:35:03,960 current capabilities much better now go podcasting. Was you mean 1456 01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:07,710 that the response updating PIs features for apps? Not quite 1457 01:35:07,710 --> 01:35:08,850 sure what he means by that? 1458 01:35:09,090 --> 01:35:11,760 Dave Jones: Is that how quickly I deploy things to the website. 1459 01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,340 I think that's what he means. I've been trying to be faster 1460 01:35:14,340 --> 01:35:17,610 about that what I had been doing in the past was waiting is sort 1461 01:35:17,610 --> 01:35:21,030 of batching them all up to date and then pushing them out every 1462 01:35:21,030 --> 01:35:21,180 day 1463 01:35:21,210 --> 01:35:22,410 Adam Curry: all you know, all in one go. 1464 01:35:23,579 --> 01:35:25,439 Dave Jones: But people are adding stuff fast now. So I'm 1465 01:35:25,439 --> 01:35:29,639 trying to to be be quicker. But once you know, as soon as I see 1466 01:35:29,639 --> 01:35:31,499 a couple of pull requests, I'm trying to push it immediately. 1467 01:35:31,530 --> 01:35:34,500 Adam Curry: And right at the end, here, right on the cusp. 1468 01:35:34,500 --> 01:35:41,790 45,678 45678 Dred Scott Merry Christmas to Bruce waited for 1469 01:35:41,790 --> 01:35:44,250 our podcast in 2.0. Thank you, brother with a nice little 1470 01:35:44,250 --> 01:35:47,700 Christmas tree and present emoji. Thank you. No, 1471 01:35:47,699 --> 01:35:51,659 Dave Jones: thanks, Jared. Get we got some pay pals we get? 1472 01:35:53,129 --> 01:35:56,969 Bigger the devil Todd and the boys of blueberry and the girls 1473 01:35:56,969 --> 01:35:59,819 at blueberry $300. Wow. 1474 01:36:00,510 --> 01:36:05,340 Adam Curry: Sakala blades on am Paula. I just like to remind 1475 01:36:05,340 --> 01:36:08,280 everybody that when he talked about the value for value model, 1476 01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:12,990 this is all this is what we do. We started this from zero over 1477 01:36:12,990 --> 01:36:17,460 three years ago, and we said it has to be valued for value and 1478 01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:20,400 be heard on numbers. We don't even make the cut for 1479 01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:25,890 advertising. Yeah. But you know, we have a project that goes 1480 01:36:25,890 --> 01:36:28,980 along with this. And so it's not just the podcast, it's the whole 1481 01:36:28,980 --> 01:36:33,150 project. And people are supporting it and this is exact 1482 01:36:33,150 --> 01:36:37,290 this is the the exact model and it's a beautiful mix of Fiat fun 1483 01:36:37,290 --> 01:36:42,540 coupons. Pay Pal and and Satoshis and booster grams. The 1484 01:36:42,540 --> 01:36:45,510 feedback loop is apparent we are eating our own dog food here, 1485 01:36:45,510 --> 01:36:49,620 people it really does work. And it's not because some old ex 1486 01:36:49,620 --> 01:36:54,060 Vijay had some kind of name for himself, believe me. It's not 1487 01:36:54,060 --> 01:36:57,330 it's not it. In fact, a lot of people were like, What are these 1488 01:36:57,330 --> 01:37:03,750 nut jobs doing? Free speech? crypto. That's how it started. 1489 01:37:04,590 --> 01:37:05,130 Yeah, 1490 01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:11,640 Dave Jones: yeah. You know, Leo, are you going to do 2.0? No. Oh, 1491 01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:12,870 yeah. But not doing that crap. 1492 01:37:12,899 --> 01:37:17,849 Adam Curry: Now. Now he's. Now he's trying to do twit. Twit 1493 01:37:17,849 --> 01:37:24,329 Club was $7 a month, man open it up. To let a little Yep. Take it 1494 01:37:24,329 --> 01:37:28,679 take the lid off. Let people support you however they want to 1495 01:37:28,709 --> 01:37:31,619 with whatever amount that's that's your saving grace 1496 01:37:31,619 --> 01:37:33,509 brother. That's the way to go. 1497 01:37:33,990 --> 01:37:37,020 Dave Jones: You know, I told you I told the guys at ATP. Take 1498 01:37:37,050 --> 01:37:41,700 Take the lid off. And and take the cap off your monthly 1499 01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:44,670 membership. And they did. Oh, and now you can give them as 1500 01:37:44,670 --> 01:37:48,840 much as you want. Oh, excellent. Yeah. Twit needs to do the same 1501 01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:52,350 thing. Take take the cap off. It's not official and it's 1502 01:37:52,350 --> 01:37:52,950 weird. 1503 01:37:54,210 --> 01:37:57,000 Adam Curry: It's weird. Like no, don't send me more money. No, 1504 01:37:57,030 --> 01:37:57,840 no. 1505 01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:02,940 Dave Jones: Yes. Thank you. Is eaten taught and the team at 1506 01:38:02,940 --> 01:38:06,000 blueberry? Merry Christmas for the blueberry team. Dave time to 1507 01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:09,270 get busy on the namespace. Happy podcasting? Yes. We get busy 1508 01:38:09,270 --> 01:38:10,200 that we 1509 01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:12,300 Adam Curry: had the namespace hot talk today Christmas 1510 01:38:12,300 --> 01:38:14,190 version. That to get busy. 1511 01:38:15,210 --> 01:38:20,040 Dave Jones: Okay, so we got out we got another Oh, we this is 1512 01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:24,360 from another word from Todd $50. From New Media Productions. Hey, 1513 01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:27,990 Adam and Dave Todd here, had my main podcast into OneNote dev at 1514 01:38:27,990 --> 01:38:30,990 a conference this week. And he will be back Monday to fix the 1515 01:38:31,470 --> 01:38:34,500 value time split bugs we found in final testing. So fingers 1516 01:38:34,500 --> 01:38:37,530 crossed on VTS for next week. All right. Nice. Thank 1517 01:38:37,530 --> 01:38:39,420 Adam Curry: you. Thank you. Thank you. So good. As good 1518 01:38:39,420 --> 01:38:41,220 knows we love that. Yes. 1519 01:38:41,940 --> 01:38:44,940 Dave Jones: Thank you, Todd and the team at blueberry and Lina 1520 01:38:44,940 --> 01:38:49,800 also very active over there. Thank you to her. We get up in 1521 01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:55,020 1984 4000 SATs from fountains is just for clarification, or just 1522 01:38:55,020 --> 01:38:57,720 a clarification my blogpost about set based advertising did 1523 01:38:57,720 --> 01:39:00,990 not involve paying listeners. It was just an idea for how 1524 01:39:00,990 --> 01:39:05,280 advertisers could buy ad space on podcast using SATs in a way 1525 01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:07,380 that would give the hosts control over the ads on their 1526 01:39:07,380 --> 01:39:10,560 content. Sorry for not making that clear in my previous 1527 01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:11,070 message. 1528 01:39:11,819 --> 01:39:13,589 Adam Curry: No, that's cool. Yeah, 1529 01:39:13,980 --> 01:39:17,280 Dave Jones: no apologies required no bad career advice. 1530 01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:21,000 Chad central Richard 1111 through fountain career. 1531 01:39:22,740 --> 01:39:27,240 Podcasting 2.0 podcast poll. Is Spotify a centralized pile of 1532 01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:35,310 music industry insider turd like for yes reply for no. Oh, 1533 01:39:35,490 --> 01:39:37,830 another bad career advice chat and other sensitive Richard's 1534 01:39:37,830 --> 01:39:40,080 through fancy says I think one of the challenges of adoption of 1535 01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:42,450 the boosting ecosystem is the fact that people have to think 1536 01:39:42,450 --> 01:39:47,130 about things in terms of wallets and transfers and Satoshis. It 1537 01:39:47,130 --> 01:39:49,590 would be cool if River and fountain could partner up to 1538 01:39:49,590 --> 01:39:53,520 have automatic Bitcoin bys where it funds both a cold wallet and 1539 01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:56,400 a lightning wallet at the same time. That way people have some 1540 01:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,970 spending money, but also putting saps away in their long term pay 1541 01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:00,510 The Bank 1542 01:40:00,630 --> 01:40:04,110 Adam Curry: yeah there's there's problems as money changer 1543 01:40:04,110 --> 01:40:08,070 transmitter problems. It's more the legality of it all then then 1544 01:40:08,070 --> 01:40:10,800 the technical issues. I'm pretty sure that's what's going on 1545 01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:11,910 there. You 1546 01:40:11,910 --> 01:40:15,390 Dave Jones: know, the big the big player in this in this whole 1547 01:40:15,390 --> 01:40:19,110 thing that is sort of missing from this all together a strike. 1548 01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:25,440 Yeah, yeah, strike could do this. I feel like could do this 1549 01:40:25,440 --> 01:40:26,010 quickly. 1550 01:40:26,730 --> 01:40:31,380 Adam Curry: You know who I saw a Channel show up. BTC swan has a 1551 01:40:31,380 --> 01:40:32,970 channel channel with the index. 1552 01:40:33,810 --> 01:40:36,000 Dave Jones: Swan. Swan Bitcoin. Yes. Change? 1553 01:40:36,030 --> 01:40:39,960 Adam Curry: Yeah. So things are moving. You're planning? Well, I 1554 01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:43,020 don't know. But there's plenty of opportunity. As you said, 1555 01:40:43,020 --> 01:40:46,980 there's so much opportunity to offer services into these apps. 1556 01:40:47,400 --> 01:40:50,310 And the apps just have a little a little button. There's 1557 01:40:50,310 --> 01:40:53,490 opportunity, and it'll come it's all going to come. That's all 1558 01:40:53,490 --> 01:40:54,330 they will they will 1559 01:40:54,929 --> 01:40:56,519 Dave Jones: SLS SLC 1560 01:40:57,600 --> 01:41:00,720 Adam Curry: SLC SLC SLC. Yeah, SLC 1561 01:41:00,989 --> 01:41:04,769 Dave Jones: 12345 sets through fountain This is what are some 1562 01:41:04,769 --> 01:41:08,309 reasons that of 2.0 app would prevent listener listening or 1563 01:41:08,309 --> 01:41:11,339 downloading while on a VPN? This happened to me less than a year 1564 01:41:11,339 --> 01:41:15,449 ago, I tried all VPN protocols and options, no dice. I even got 1565 01:41:15,449 --> 01:41:18,869 confirmation for the 2.0 def team, that this was on their 1566 01:41:18,869 --> 01:41:22,739 end, but said they wouldn't share why they were doing it for 1567 01:41:22,739 --> 01:41:23,699 security route. What 1568 01:41:23,790 --> 01:41:26,490 Adam Curry: what Deb Tino did is that you? 1569 01:41:28,350 --> 01:41:29,940 Dave Jones: I'm not a team. It 1570 01:41:29,939 --> 01:41:33,449 Adam Curry: all depends on your, on your VPN. I mean, that's, 1571 01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:37,379 that's it, the VPN is going to determine what what can come 1572 01:41:37,379 --> 01:41:38,159 through or not. 1573 01:41:39,390 --> 01:41:42,030 Dave Jones: Don't tell us what app it is. Yeah, that way we 1574 01:41:42,030 --> 01:41:46,770 could get there was a another one. Another was an issue for a 1575 01:41:46,770 --> 01:41:50,550 while with IPFS. over VPN. Yeah, that was the gateways were 1576 01:41:50,550 --> 01:41:50,970 blocking. 1577 01:41:51,060 --> 01:41:56,910 Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Well, IPFS so funny. ipfs.io In general, 1578 01:41:57,180 --> 01:42:01,020 you know, very often now I see a spam email come through and 1579 01:42:01,020 --> 01:42:04,140 I'll, you know, I'll hover the link. I'm like, Oh, okay. It's 1580 01:42:04,140 --> 01:42:07,290 gonna download something from ipfs.io. Yeah, no wonder those 1581 01:42:07,290 --> 01:42:12,270 guys got killed off by about a lot of spam, spam bots or 1582 01:42:12,420 --> 01:42:14,100 speaking, firewalls. 1583 01:42:15,239 --> 01:42:17,579 Dave Jones: Speaking of blocking things, did you see where 1584 01:42:17,969 --> 01:42:22,139 threads started federating with the fediverse and then 1585 01:42:22,139 --> 01:42:25,019 immediately blocked noster. No, 1586 01:42:26,130 --> 01:42:29,310 Adam Curry: wait, it? What is Nasir on the fediverse? What do 1587 01:42:29,310 --> 01:42:30,180 you mean? Yeah, it's 1588 01:42:30,180 --> 01:42:33,150 Dave Jones: the, you know, the bridge the most or bridge? Oh, 1589 01:42:33,150 --> 01:42:37,290 really? Yes, threads, threads started federating. And then 1590 01:42:37,290 --> 01:42:40,290 immediately blocked the nostril bridge communication. 1591 01:42:40,769 --> 01:42:43,859 Adam Curry: I have this weird observation. Because I've been 1592 01:42:43,859 --> 01:42:48,419 studying social media for of course, from the first day when 1593 01:42:48,419 --> 01:42:52,439 Twitter launched as Twitter and our micro blogging platform 1594 01:42:52,439 --> 01:42:57,299 instead of a podcast company. And six years ago, I started no 1595 01:42:57,299 --> 01:43:02,549 agenda social.com the mastodon site about 656 years ago. 1596 01:43:04,589 --> 01:43:12,329 Without like, a proto person, like MySpace, arguably a social 1597 01:43:12,329 --> 01:43:12,749 network, 1598 01:43:12,749 --> 01:43:14,879 Dave Jones: Moto person, that's a great term. 1599 01:43:14,940 --> 01:43:21,060 Adam Curry: Everybody had Tom as their friend. Remember? Do you 1600 01:43:21,060 --> 01:43:23,970 remember that? The guy who started MySpace and name was 1601 01:43:23,970 --> 01:43:27,450 Tom. So when you started a MySpace account, you had Tom 1602 01:43:27,510 --> 01:43:32,250 that was your first friend. Okay. And with face bag. 1603 01:43:33,180 --> 01:43:36,960 Zuckerberg was kind of a big guy on there in the beginning, of 1604 01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:41,910 course, we had ever had and later Jack Dorsey with Twitter. 1605 01:43:43,020 --> 01:43:48,540 And now Elon Musk and with threads you know, Zuckerberg 1606 01:43:48,540 --> 01:43:52,800 hasn't posted in a month and not even see it on no agenda. I've 1607 01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:57,240 stopped posting no agenda social because it's it's a crap hit. Me 1608 01:43:57,240 --> 01:43:57,390 Oh, 1609 01:43:57,420 --> 01:44:00,780 Dave Jones: you're the Tom have no agenda. Social. Yes. And 1610 01:44:00,900 --> 01:44:07,410 Adam Curry: I think what happens is when there's no no singular, 1611 01:44:07,620 --> 01:44:10,620 or it can be it doesn't have to be one but one or two persons of 1612 01:44:10,620 --> 01:44:16,350 authority who you know, has some power to kick you off. I think 1613 01:44:16,350 --> 01:44:24,390 people just lose lose all sense of decorum. And it just becomes 1614 01:44:24,510 --> 01:44:29,850 just it becomes crappy. And and there's something about the 1615 01:44:29,850 --> 01:44:34,980 proto person of a social network that has to be there. And you 1616 01:44:34,980 --> 01:44:37,710 know, and Jack was that for Nasr, but I feel that Jack has 1617 01:44:37,710 --> 01:44:41,970 pulled back Yeah, which means he hasn't given anybody any more 1618 01:44:41,970 --> 01:44:46,290 money. And I think it's that that's you know, there's there's 1619 01:44:46,290 --> 01:44:49,530 no person but Oh, yeah. Oh, Jack, he follows me. He tagged 1620 01:44:49,530 --> 01:44:53,610 me Jack, Jack Jack. And I think that is it's somehow it's 1621 01:44:53,610 --> 01:44:56,280 critical to survival of social networks. 1622 01:44:56,849 --> 01:44:58,979 Dave Jones: Yeah, there's when there's no adult in the room. 1623 01:44:59,309 --> 01:45:03,329 Yeah. Yes. When there's no adult in the room Yeah, exactly, 1624 01:45:03,329 --> 01:45:05,999 buddy, everybody. Everybody goes feral. Yeah, 1625 01:45:06,030 --> 01:45:09,570 Adam Curry: yes, exactly. And I think that threads suffers from 1626 01:45:09,570 --> 01:45:13,500 that and that's not Instagram is not true. And Tik Tok is not 1627 01:45:13,500 --> 01:45:16,860 true. Those are outliers for some reason. Well, 1628 01:45:16,859 --> 01:45:17,939 Dave Jones: they were fair already. 1629 01:45:18,569 --> 01:45:22,199 Adam Curry: They started off Farrell. Right. Yeah, exactly. 1630 01:45:22,229 --> 01:45:25,619 Anyway, I've just observation. Yeah, that's 1631 01:45:25,620 --> 01:45:31,230 Dave Jones: that's this feel it feels very true. Say 20 220 2220 1632 01:45:31,230 --> 01:45:34,470 vagaro. Doug's from Dave Jackson. Thank you, Dave. Do 1633 01:45:34,470 --> 01:45:36,990 cast medic he says a great episode that left me no choice 1634 01:45:36,990 --> 01:45:40,950 but to boost and share. Right you didn't know you were forced 1635 01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:44,820 to graduate by the IRS 1776. Through fountain he says I still 1636 01:45:44,820 --> 01:45:47,850 prefer z. This is just listening. He said I still 1637 01:45:47,850 --> 01:45:51,330 prefer chapters and boost to be separate. I use the chapters tab 1638 01:45:51,330 --> 01:45:55,230 and found unlike a content index tab, in the Activity tab to 1639 01:45:55,230 --> 01:45:58,260 check out boosts almost like the comment section with boosts and 1640 01:45:58,260 --> 01:46:01,470 chapters. It gets cluttered. Anyhow, not complaining. And I 1641 01:46:01,470 --> 01:46:04,770 guess that's up to apps. Hey, looking forward to AngelList 1642 01:46:04,770 --> 01:46:05,820 concert. Yes, 1643 01:46:05,820 --> 01:46:09,990 Adam Curry: and I keep publishing this same way through 1644 01:46:09,990 --> 01:46:14,970 the through Spurlock's interface. And I know pod verse 1645 01:46:14,970 --> 01:46:19,350 has implemented a switch. And I'm not sure about other apps, 1646 01:46:19,350 --> 01:46:22,380 but I'm really only doing it for people to integrate the switch. 1647 01:46:22,890 --> 01:46:25,590 Because believe me, I get I get I from time to time I get a 1648 01:46:25,590 --> 01:46:30,660 really angry email about it. And I keep saying, you know, that 1649 01:46:30,660 --> 01:46:34,950 should be an app theme because I'm publishing those as those 1650 01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:38,790 TOC equals false so they should not be in your end.