Episode 162: Unwise Unwrap

1 00:00:00,570 --> 00:00:05,340 Adam Curry: By casting coupon over January 5 2024, episode 162 2 00:00:05,580 --> 00:00:11,070 UHNWIs unwrapped. Well, well Well hello, everybody. Welcome 3 00:00:11,070 --> 00:00:16,830 to 2024 Welcome to podcasting. This is the official board 4 00:00:16,830 --> 00:00:20,460 meeting of podcasting. Forget any other show. This is where 5 00:00:20,460 --> 00:00:23,040 podcasting takes place. This is where you hear what's really 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,070 going on with the podcast industrial complex with the 7 00:00:26,070 --> 00:00:29,280 future of podcasting with value for value, everything with a 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,670 namespace podcast index.org And of course, everything we're 9 00:00:32,670 --> 00:00:36,540 discussing at podcast index dot social, the only boardroom 10 00:00:36,570 --> 00:00:39,480 without an agenda or meticulous minutes. That's right. I'm out 11 00:00:40,020 --> 00:00:43,470 here in the heart of the country. And in Alabama. The man 12 00:00:43,470 --> 00:00:46,230 who was alpha is better than the year beta say hello to my friend 13 00:00:46,230 --> 00:00:48,420 on the other end. Dave Jones. 14 00:00:54,420 --> 00:00:58,200 Will you muted? Yes. Because you worried myself because you were 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,300 munching on something again? No, I 16 00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:03,780 Dave Jones: was frantically typing there in moving crap 17 00:01:03,780 --> 00:01:05,910 around on my screen. I didn't want to make a bunch of noise. 18 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:08,910 And live troubleshooting the AP bridge. 19 00:01:08,970 --> 00:01:12,240 Adam Curry: Oh, boy. Yes, yes. For those who were not listening 20 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,650 live. We, we we were waiting for that. We've had some problems 21 00:01:16,650 --> 00:01:19,680 with the Fetty with the fediverse bridging as a few a 22 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:20,820 few issues. 23 00:01:21,690 --> 00:01:27,180 Dave Jones: What I'm going to do so you got you got the live pod 24 00:01:27,180 --> 00:01:28,620 thing went out? Yes. They 25 00:01:28,620 --> 00:01:30,840 Adam Curry: went out because we saw it come to the boost the 26 00:01:30,930 --> 00:01:33,750 live bot. Yeah. Got it. 27 00:01:33,990 --> 00:01:35,490 Dave Jones: I got it on my phone. We 28 00:01:35,490 --> 00:01:37,590 Adam Curry: are live and live. Hello, everybody. Hello, Sam 29 00:01:37,590 --> 00:01:42,210 Sethi in the UK. Hello. Got your red wine. He's drinking. We've 30 00:01:42,210 --> 00:01:43,440 driven him to dream. 31 00:01:45,270 --> 00:01:47,670 Dave Jones: We tend to do that with most mate most people 32 00:01:47,670 --> 00:01:49,530 Adam Curry: have to drink when they listen to us. Yes, I know. 33 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,500 Dave Jones: Yeah. If you're recovering, don't don't listen 34 00:01:52,500 --> 00:01:59,340 to the show. You will fall off the wagon. So it's funny, by the 35 00:01:59,340 --> 00:02:03,390 way, whenever you send the live pod thing out, all the apps 36 00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:05,970 START push notification group is like 37 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,930 Adam Curry: I have Yeah, I had to turn a couple of them off. 38 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,350 Because it was it my screen was getting too crowded. You know, 39 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:16,920 it was getting making me anxious. Like, oh, I wake up in 40 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:19,080 the morning. There's a whole row of things. Now of course, 41 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,850 subsequently, I sometimes miss the new media show, ping which 42 00:02:23,850 --> 00:02:26,220 is a bummer because I love interacting with those guys 43 00:02:26,220 --> 00:02:27,690 live. That's always hilarious. 44 00:02:28,740 --> 00:02:31,230 Dave Jones: Let's see. Okay, so I'm gonna do I'm gonna ping the 45 00:02:31,230 --> 00:02:35,520 hub right now because there's gonna be so we know the podcast. 46 00:02:37,140 --> 00:02:40,890 The excuse me, the pod ping live notification went out. Because 47 00:02:40,890 --> 00:02:45,660 we got that and in the podcast live bought, picked on activity 48 00:02:45,660 --> 00:02:46,620 pub picked it up. I 49 00:02:46,620 --> 00:02:48,030 Adam Curry: got notifications here. 50 00:02:48,870 --> 00:02:53,490 Dave Jones: Because so I'm going to do C pub dot podcast 51 00:02:53,490 --> 00:03:00,780 index.org/pub Notify ID equal nine to 0666. Yeah. 52 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:06,150 Adam Curry: What is up with the 666 ID man that's irritating. 53 00:03:06,630 --> 00:03:09,870 That that was just chosen for us at random by 54 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,790 Dave Jones: No, we're being stalked by dark buysafe we have 55 00:03:14,790 --> 00:03:17,400 a we have a booster gram from satan today as well. So we're 56 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:17,610 gonna 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:24,450 Adam Curry: see live. So what Dave is doing if you're new, we 58 00:03:24,450 --> 00:03:29,340 are working on fed defying the podcast index, which means that 59 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:33,720 you can actually follow podcasts, any podcast in the 60 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:39,030 index from any Mastodon account or anything that speaks activity 61 00:03:39,030 --> 00:03:43,140 pub, which is cool, because it basically is built the biggest 62 00:03:43,140 --> 00:03:47,820 podcast app in the world. Just the way I see it. And there's 63 00:03:47,820 --> 00:03:51,360 all kinds of groovy things we can do with it, which the only 64 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,660 you only had this work in last week. So I mean, doesn't 65 00:03:54,660 --> 00:03:57,660 surprise me that stuff breaks and burps and farts and does 66 00:03:57,660 --> 00:03:58,470 stuff. It's fine. 67 00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:01,620 Dave Jones: Oh, this this is the alpha test of alpha software at 68 00:04:01,620 --> 00:04:03,660 this point. I mean, it's barely hanging together. 69 00:04:03,690 --> 00:04:06,600 Adam Curry: And it's funny how how I get used to just okay, 70 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,760 it's working good. I'm putting it into my production flow. 71 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:09,840 We're rockin and rollin. 72 00:04:10,590 --> 00:04:12,870 Dave Jones: That's why I've rolled this out to you because 73 00:04:12,870 --> 00:04:14,760 you break the heck out of everything. 74 00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:18,030 Adam Curry: It's my job. It is my absolute job. 75 00:04:18,509 --> 00:04:21,179 Dave Jones: It's an absolute you're a hammer. It's not coming 76 00:04:21,179 --> 00:04:23,639 through. This is this is aggravating. 77 00:04:23,670 --> 00:04:27,240 Adam Curry: Is it? Is it in the inbox, though? Is in the inbox? 78 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:27,900 The 79 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:28,470 Dave Jones: inbox? 80 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,180 Adam Curry: Yeah. Well, that's 81 00:04:30,180 --> 00:04:32,700 Dave Jones: the Oh, you mean the outbox? Yeah, that's 82 00:04:32,700 --> 00:04:34,950 Adam Curry: what I mean. Yeah. Okay, one guy's outbox is 83 00:04:34,950 --> 00:04:38,640 another guy's inbox. Okay. Matter of looking at looking at 84 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:39,060 things. 85 00:04:40,710 --> 00:04:43,890 Dave Jones: See, outbox? I don't know. Let's check, because 86 00:04:43,890 --> 00:04:45,870 Adam Curry: that's, that's what happened last time. Someone 87 00:04:45,870 --> 00:04:48,690 said, Oh, look, it's in the outbox. So it seems to be like 88 00:04:48,690 --> 00:04:53,070 some kind of signing issue. How about that? How about that? 89 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,790 Dave Jones: This would not be in the outbox, typically, because 90 00:04:56,790 --> 00:04:59,640 Adam Curry: I had posted no agenda and it wasn't showing on 91 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,130 the Fed. Reverse, but it was in the outbox. 92 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:09,120 Dave Jones: Yes. So Okay. Well, here's. Yeah. It's not in now, 93 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,170 but this would not be in the outbox because live the live 94 00:05:13,170 --> 00:05:15,570 notifications do not go into the outbox. 95 00:05:16,260 --> 00:05:21,000 Adam Curry: There's a bridge to the bridge. That's take it to 96 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:21,750 the branch. 97 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,980 Dave Jones: It says we're bridge or bridge and bridges. Okay, 98 00:05:26,010 --> 00:05:31,740 gotcha. Okay. The the, the regular posts when new episodes 99 00:05:31,740 --> 00:05:35,970 go into the feed, those are in the outbox, right. Got it. Live 100 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,590 notifications do not go into the outbox. Now, maybe they should. 101 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:46,860 But that doesn't seem like it. I don't know. I mean, I'm open, 102 00:05:46,890 --> 00:05:47,760 I'm open to 103 00:05:49,020 --> 00:05:51,480 Adam Curry: well open to have my mind. Why don't you just since 104 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,630 we're on the topic I have at the top of my list, let's just give 105 00:05:54,630 --> 00:05:57,810 us a little status on the Fed ification of the index, because 106 00:05:58,110 --> 00:06:03,420 this is where we left off last last year. And I'm super excited 107 00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:07,230 by by this development, it's it opens up so many opportunities 108 00:06:07,230 --> 00:06:08,580 once we get it to work. 109 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:12,750 Dave Jones: Steven crater said, Where did they go there? 110 00:06:13,470 --> 00:06:18,060 Adam Curry: Who knows? into the ether, man, stop asking 111 00:06:18,060 --> 00:06:19,200 questions crater. 112 00:06:19,590 --> 00:06:24,780 Dave Jones: Yeah, like, okay, so they, they go to the inbox of 113 00:06:24,780 --> 00:06:29,010 other servers, which also answers FPPS question. He says, 114 00:06:29,010 --> 00:06:31,860 Does the bridge also have to post to the master to master on 115 00:06:31,860 --> 00:06:43,500 them? But yes, so. So So yes, the here's let me just let me 116 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:45,510 just go back and look and talk a little bit about structure 117 00:06:45,510 --> 00:06:50,970 because they basically this week with ag with the AP bridge was 118 00:06:50,970 --> 00:06:55,200 nothing but refactoring just isn't, and it's not the the code 119 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,870 that I've worked on all week is not even in production yet. 120 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:03,660 Okay? Cuz I can't. I just ran out of time, I was trying to get 121 00:07:04,650 --> 00:07:08,430 what, uh, what I need to do, oh, really, before I can get this 122 00:07:08,430 --> 00:07:13,590 thing to be open, is take out those hard coded keys. And so 123 00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:17,070 that's what I was trying to do this morning. And it just, I 124 00:07:17,070 --> 00:07:21,240 just did not have time. So that's, that's all I have to do. 125 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,840 And then I'm going to open it up, that's should be it stupid, 126 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,230 because it should be a simple thing. They should be like, you 127 00:07:28,230 --> 00:07:34,560 know, just something so easy. But with with rust, that's, 128 00:07:34,860 --> 00:07:39,000 that's often where you know, where you go. And check yourself 129 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,390 into it. The Insane Asylum is when you think that this should 130 00:07:42,390 --> 00:07:47,340 be easy. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, you know, this, your, 131 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,600 this borrow you? This statical eight, and you need to have a 132 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,970 static lifetime, because this variable doesn't live long 133 00:07:53,970 --> 00:07:57,750 enough and goes out of scope before it's like, Oh, wow. Okay. 134 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:00,090 Adam Curry: Yeah. So you might as well have a girlfriend, if 135 00:08:00,090 --> 00:08:02,610 you're gonna talk that language to me. Well, 136 00:08:02,610 --> 00:08:04,170 Dave Jones: that's why you don't have girlfriends, if you're 137 00:08:04,170 --> 00:08:07,350 gonna have if you know how to talk that language, you have no 138 00:08:07,350 --> 00:08:13,020 women in your life, right? Or if you do, they all hate you. So 139 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:19,230 here's, here's the way the structure is currently. And this 140 00:08:19,230 --> 00:08:25,110 as for the refactor code, as well as, as well as what's 141 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,280 what's actually live right now. So there's, there's a web 142 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:34,710 server. Remember, this is all based on the, on the core front, 143 00:08:34,710 --> 00:08:40,650 this core little tiny, elegant web server framework of that 144 00:08:40,650 --> 00:08:48,600 heli pad in MK Ultra, and pod ping dot cloud are based on. So 145 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,460 it's very simple. It's, it's a main process thread that spawns 146 00:08:53,610 --> 00:08:58,410 individual threads for incoming web requests, and then putting 147 00:08:58,410 --> 00:09:02,700 in there's a router. And then there's a request handler, it's, 148 00:09:02,730 --> 00:09:06,870 it's just the whole thing is like, I don't know, 500 lines of 149 00:09:06,870 --> 00:09:12,090 code for an entire web server in it's like, rock solid. So 150 00:09:12,090 --> 00:09:17,730 that's, that's what the core of of it is. And then, but then 151 00:09:17,730 --> 00:09:23,010 when the when you start the server, it also spawns two 152 00:09:23,010 --> 00:09:28,290 additional threads. So one thread is an episode checker. 153 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:34,410 And it just on a loop checks constantly with the index. To 154 00:09:34,410 --> 00:09:36,750 find out if there's been new episodes. Wow, 155 00:09:36,750 --> 00:09:37,800 Adam Curry: shouldn't it be using pod 156 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:39,509 Dave Jones: pay? Well, 157 00:09:39,839 --> 00:09:42,089 Adam Curry: that's next level. There's 158 00:09:42,089 --> 00:09:46,499 Dave Jones: a net Well, no, it does. So but but not all. Not 159 00:09:46,499 --> 00:09:50,159 all feeds are pod, of course. So you have there's so it's 160 00:09:50,159 --> 00:09:54,599 constantly doing that. And it's like once it's like one a second 161 00:09:54,629 --> 00:09:58,649 you know, it's it's not it's being nice. So then it's doing 162 00:09:58,649 --> 00:10:01,289 that as one there's a initial just looping is running all the 163 00:10:01,289 --> 00:10:05,429 time. And then there's another loop, another thread that gets 164 00:10:05,429 --> 00:10:09,779 spawned to listen to Spurlock's pod thing. WebSocket. 165 00:10:10,289 --> 00:10:13,049 Adam Curry: Right? That's where it's supposed to do the live 166 00:10:13,049 --> 00:10:13,499 update. 167 00:10:14,250 --> 00:10:17,430 Dave Jones: Yes. And so whenever it basically just the thread 168 00:10:17,430 --> 00:10:23,310 spawns it, it connects to the WebSocket, and then enters a 169 00:10:23,310 --> 00:10:28,440 loop, waiting for a read for read activity. When a new 170 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:34,470 message comes in, it checks. It calls the index. Because here's 171 00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:36,900 the issue. So there's a little bit of there's a little bit of 172 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:40,680 like, I don't know what you would call it, a little bit of 173 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:45,330 running around, that has to happen because pod ping operates 174 00:10:45,330 --> 00:10:50,880 on feed URLs. That's really all it can operate on. So it 175 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:56,130 operates purely on feed URLs. And the reason code and reason 176 00:10:56,130 --> 00:11:00,720 codes, yes, and mediums. So in the pay a payload for a pod ping 177 00:11:00,990 --> 00:11:09,300 is a feed URL, a medium and a reason code. The the feed URL, 178 00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:15,870 so there's no sense of any kind of feed ID anywhere in this. So 179 00:11:15,900 --> 00:11:17,790 but the AP bridge operates on feed 180 00:11:17,789 --> 00:11:21,599 Adam Curry: IDs, so you have to do a lookup there. Yes. So 181 00:11:21,599 --> 00:11:23,309 Dave Jones: there has to be a reverse lookup. So I'm watching 182 00:11:23,309 --> 00:11:27,659 the pod ping web socket. And when a message comes in, I say, 183 00:11:27,659 --> 00:11:33,059 okay, podcast just went live. And it's this feed URL. What's 184 00:11:33,059 --> 00:11:37,229 the idea? Yeah, how do I know if that's one that we watch or not? 185 00:11:38,339 --> 00:11:42,989 Does anybody follow this? You know, who knows. So I have to 186 00:11:42,989 --> 00:11:46,859 convert that feed URL into a podcast index ID, which requires 187 00:11:46,859 --> 00:11:51,719 a podcast index look up. So every time I see a live, pod 188 00:11:51,719 --> 00:11:58,049 ping go out, you got to do a lookup on the API, get the ID, 189 00:11:58,049 --> 00:12:01,439 but at the same time, you don't want to have the multiple calls. 190 00:12:01,439 --> 00:12:03,569 So you just go ahead and do all of them at once. So basically, 191 00:12:03,569 --> 00:12:06,719 there's an endpoint. I'm not even sure if I've made it public 192 00:12:06,719 --> 00:12:17,789 yet. But there's an endpoint called Live, see, live by Feed 193 00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:23,069 URL in it, and you give it a URL, and it gives you back all 194 00:12:23,069 --> 00:12:29,069 the live items that we currently know about for that URL. And a 195 00:12:29,069 --> 00:12:31,259 bunch of them and all the feed metadata and everything that 196 00:12:31,259 --> 00:12:33,899 goes with it. So you can get the ID and everything you can you 197 00:12:33,899 --> 00:12:42,599 can get every all that stuff in one call. Will if, if the fifth 198 00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:48,569 you will have to wait, you know, because the pod pain goes out. 199 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:55,319 Then we parse the feed in the index, and update the live item. 200 00:12:57,179 --> 00:13:02,219 But the so we have I have to wait for for like, I think it's 201 00:13:02,219 --> 00:13:07,019 like 60 seconds from getting the pod paying to give the index 202 00:13:07,019 --> 00:13:10,829 time enough to parse the feed so that the index data is current. 203 00:13:12,689 --> 00:13:15,869 So that it gives me the you know, like correct data about 204 00:13:15,899 --> 00:13:21,389 the current state of live? Sure. Okay. So that's, that's like the 205 00:13:21,419 --> 00:13:22,649 there's like a timing little 206 00:13:22,650 --> 00:13:26,160 Adam Curry: bit of time loop. Yeah, you can miss it. You can 207 00:13:26,190 --> 00:13:27,420 you can check too early. 208 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,509 Dave Jones: Yes, you can check too early for sure. 209 00:13:30,539 --> 00:13:32,849 Adam Curry: This is a Rube Goldberg Machine Man that I 210 00:13:32,849 --> 00:13:37,259 don't know what you're you're building here. The dominoes 211 00:13:38,519 --> 00:13:42,899 dominoes trip the spoon that hits the golf ball. It hits the 212 00:13:42,929 --> 00:13:46,859 falls into the glass. The glass splashes the water. Exactly. 213 00:13:46,889 --> 00:13:48,869 Dave Jones: Yeah. And then a firecracker goes off and scares 214 00:13:48,869 --> 00:13:55,109 the chicken glaze and a witch. Yeah, exactly. This is all a 215 00:13:55,109 --> 00:13:57,989 podcasting. By the way. It is a huge Rube Goldberg 216 00:13:58,020 --> 00:14:00,480 Adam Curry: true it's true that's called interrupt in the 217 00:14:00,510 --> 00:14:01,560 in some worlds 218 00:14:03,899 --> 00:14:07,199 Dave Jones: so that's that's what's happening all the time. 219 00:14:07,199 --> 00:14:13,049 So what happened? What happened this past week when everybody 220 00:14:13,049 --> 00:14:16,259 started saying hey, I'm not getting notifications of new 221 00:14:16,289 --> 00:14:23,369 episodes. One of the three one of those threads the thread that 222 00:14:23,399 --> 00:14:26,819 the thread that checks the podcast index a fresh new add 223 00:14:26,819 --> 00:14:27,479 crash first 224 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,930 Adam Curry: of all, how you should be very happy and and you 225 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,960 I would say you can be proud of the fact that people were 226 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,380 complaining that means people were already like interested in 227 00:14:37,380 --> 00:14:37,500 it. 228 00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:39,780 Dave Jones: This is good. It warms my heart. 229 00:14:41,309 --> 00:14:43,079 Adam Curry: It warms your heart and then immediately you got a 230 00:14:43,079 --> 00:14:46,499 black hole in your soul because the feet you're threaded crashed 231 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,620 Dave Jones: your heart can be warm and pissed off at the same 232 00:14:49,620 --> 00:14:56,220 time. Possible as possible. Yeah, and so the the it had it 233 00:14:56,220 --> 00:14:59,130 had crashed and I don't know this for sure yet because I 234 00:14:59,130 --> 00:15:03,270 really could not afford the distraction of hunting that bug 235 00:15:03,270 --> 00:15:08,460 while also refactoring this, this code, because, here's, 236 00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:12,480 well, I don't want to get off into many different, different 237 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:18,300 rabbit trails, but just what it almost certainly is almost 238 00:15:18,330 --> 00:15:29,040 almost 100% Sure this is what it is, is, is an unwise unwrap. So 239 00:15:29,130 --> 00:15:32,640 unwrapped something that should have stayed rat is basically, 240 00:15:33,180 --> 00:15:37,230 we've, we've talked about this before. Rust is modern language 241 00:15:37,260 --> 00:15:45,120 in many modern language employ this idea of of a variable that 242 00:15:45,150 --> 00:15:49,860 you're able to wrap what you could call wrap a variable. So 243 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:56,310 you can let's say you have a variable of a podcast index ID. 244 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,270 So this variable is going to hold is supposed to hold a 245 00:16:00,270 --> 00:16:02,820 number, so there should be issue holding an integer like the 246 00:16:02,820 --> 00:16:07,440 integer of this show 920666. So that should be like let's just 247 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:16,800 say a 64 bit unsigned integer, that variable can in a modern 248 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,500 way, in modern languages like swift and rust, and that kind of 249 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:23,550 thing, they can be what's called wrapped, meaning that you can 250 00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:28,110 create a new, there's a new type called and actually in Rust, 251 00:16:28,110 --> 00:16:33,090 there's two different ones, you can have an option or not, or 252 00:16:33,270 --> 00:16:36,480 some people call an optional, you have an option or you have 253 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,090 Adam Curry: a result. So it's like an it's an abstraction of 254 00:16:39,090 --> 00:16:39,840 the variable. 255 00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:44,939 Dave Jones: It is the variable lives inside of the RET of the 256 00:16:44,939 --> 00:16:51,629 wrapped of the rat, the variable lives inside a type in the type, 257 00:16:51,659 --> 00:16:58,139 let's just does you say option. Okay? So option is an option can 258 00:16:58,139 --> 00:17:05,999 be either some or none. So none is sort of like null or nil. Or 259 00:17:06,089 --> 00:17:09,989 in JavaScript, undefined, something like that. It's just a 260 00:17:09,989 --> 00:17:14,429 value that means this damage is inherent, you know what you're 261 00:17:14,429 --> 00:17:19,289 looking for doesn't exist, essentially. And then the the 262 00:17:19,289 --> 00:17:24,749 converse of that is some which means yes, there is a value 263 00:17:24,749 --> 00:17:27,419 here, you're looking for a variable called podcast index 264 00:17:27,419 --> 00:17:35,129 ID. And I'm telling you, there is some value here. So you got 265 00:17:35,130 --> 00:17:38,490 Adam Curry: to unwrap it to figure out what it is. Yes, 266 00:17:38,490 --> 00:17:41,490 Dave Jones: exactly. You can say Holy crap, I'm programming 267 00:17:41,490 --> 00:17:42,480 Adam Curry: rust, everybody 268 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,470 Dave Jones: print the transcript and compile it. Yes. So there's 269 00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:55,380 also another there's another version of that is very similar 270 00:17:55,380 --> 00:18:00,600 to that, called result. It's a result is basically the same 271 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:08,190 ideas option, except it operates with, you can have either an N 272 00:18:08,190 --> 00:18:12,180 Okay, or error. There's your your to those instead of some 273 00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:15,840 and none. Now you have Okay, an error it's meant for it's really 274 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,280 meant for returning from a function and letting the calling 275 00:18:20,670 --> 00:18:24,870 method know whether or not that function was successful or not. 276 00:18:25,530 --> 00:18:29,340 So if you get back in, okay, you unwrap it, you're good to go. 277 00:18:29,340 --> 00:18:30,150 You got your value, you 278 00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:31,740 Adam Curry: got value. God Yeah. 279 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:38,940 Dave Jones: So there is a it just again, like many, like most 280 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:44,340 modern languages that that incorporate this feature. Hold 281 00:18:44,340 --> 00:18:45,390 on, hold on, wait, hold 282 00:18:45,390 --> 00:18:52,680 Adam Curry: on a second day. Champs have to wake up. Okay. So 283 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:53,550 I'm dozing off. 284 00:18:55,620 --> 00:18:57,780 Dave Jones: We got him early in his first class and one so he's 285 00:18:57,780 --> 00:19:03,000 still we're lucky. We're lucky. So like most modern languages 286 00:19:03,030 --> 00:19:08,940 that incorporate this, this idea or this feature, there is a way 287 00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:15,000 to force the unwrapping. Okay, so now, now you're not checking 288 00:19:15,030 --> 00:19:18,120 to see if it's so like in Rust, you would say something like 289 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:25,950 this, if podcast index id.is some meaning if there's a value 290 00:19:25,950 --> 00:19:33,570 there. Yeah. Or if podcast index id.is. None the meaning. So you 291 00:19:33,570 --> 00:19:36,480 would do a check like that beforehand. But but when you're 292 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,340 prototyping code, and you're going, 293 00:19:38,670 --> 00:19:41,310 Adam Curry: going quickly to get you just want to get it no 294 00:19:41,310 --> 00:19:43,320 matter what. Yeah, because you're like, Hey, I 295 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,320 Dave Jones: know. I don't care if it crashes, it's fine. It's 296 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,800 kind of science graduate. But I just want this I don't want to 297 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,220 have to build all this logic, all this error checking logic, 298 00:19:53,220 --> 00:19:55,380 I'll do that, quote unquote, later, 299 00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:57,270 Adam Curry: and that's what the wrapping is for is for error 300 00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:59,160 checking logic. Right. And so 301 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,190 Dave Jones: you say it Exactly so that you can avoid crashing 302 00:20:02,190 --> 00:20:06,990 in written runtime. But, so you can do I think in Swift, it's 303 00:20:06,990 --> 00:20:11,040 the exclamation point will unwrap a variable. In rust. It's 304 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,240 either the question mark, or you can explicitly say dot unwrap. 305 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,200 And that will, that will treat the variable as if there's 306 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,340 something there and we'll, we'll return its content. So if 307 00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:25,740 there's nothing there, you get a thread panic and you cry you 308 00:20:25,740 --> 00:20:28,230 Adam Curry: crash. Okay, I got it. So that's the problem is 309 00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:32,370 that it? Either check too early, too late or something and it was 310 00:20:32,370 --> 00:20:34,980 zero and you didn't have any, you didn't have the user to 311 00:20:34,980 --> 00:20:38,040 force unwrap. And then it had nothing to do with 312 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,750 Dave Jones: PS exec thread panic done that. But it didn't. But it 313 00:20:42,750 --> 00:20:47,010 does not crash the entire it doesn't crash the entire AP 314 00:20:47,010 --> 00:20:48,480 bridge and only crashes read 315 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,580 Adam Curry: read write? Yes. Well, that's what threads are 316 00:20:50,580 --> 00:20:50,970 for. 317 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,990 Dave Jones: Right, exactly. It's exactly what I shouldn't be 318 00:20:54,990 --> 00:21:00,720 doing is either one of n and most likely both of these two 319 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,680 things I should be properly checking all unwraps which I'm 320 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,760 almost certainly not doing as as Alex likes to say unwrapping 321 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:16,320 things for Christmas. And, and also checking to see if the 322 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,470 thread crashes and bringing it back to life spawning a new 323 00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:21,510 thread. And doing neither one of them. 324 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,700 Adam Curry: Okay, I gotcha. Gotcha. 325 00:21:23,730 --> 00:21:28,440 Dave Jones: I guess I'm a bad program. Boy, naughty. I'm on 326 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:29,010 the bad list. 327 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,260 Adam Curry: All right. Oh, my goodness. Thanks, Dave. 328 00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:33,210 Dave Jones: Is that a bad way to start a show? 329 00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:36,000 Adam Curry: I don't know. I mean, anyone's that the 330 00:21:36,030 --> 00:21:40,770 boardroom is quiet. No one's saying anything anymore in their 331 00:21:40,770 --> 00:21:42,870 heads are all on their keyboards. You know, I'm 332 00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:45,780 expecting any minute now for someone to shoot a whole long 333 00:21:45,780 --> 00:21:53,520 row of peas, you know, just fall asleep on the keyboard. While 334 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,040 we're in at this level, let me just run through a couple of 335 00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,720 things. And then I have some thoughts. First of all, I want 336 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:06,180 to congratulate fountain on there. Rewind every meal apple 337 00:22:06,180 --> 00:22:08,910 and Spotify and everyone was doing look at what you did this 338 00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:13,740 this past year. And fountain Did you get a rewind email? I did it 339 00:22:13,740 --> 00:22:17,250 was pretty read. Wow, it showed me how much I had supported it 340 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:21,840 show me the top shows. It was shareable. It was just it was 341 00:22:21,870 --> 00:22:26,070 what a one it showed me all my Muslim boosts. It was just a 342 00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:30,300 lovely piece of marketing. Marketing is the thing that we 343 00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:36,480 lacked typically in very much just saying. So that was really 344 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,520 cool. And not everybody has time for this but I just wanted to 345 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,660 say that was delightful. That's the kind of stuff that gets you 346 00:22:45,690 --> 00:22:51,450 people to pay attention to what you're doing two things one, 347 00:22:52,350 --> 00:22:54,510 because I've been picking this up and I think you've been in 348 00:22:54,510 --> 00:22:59,370 some of these threads. There appears to be a GUID duplication 349 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,890 amongst a whole lot of WordPress feeds 350 00:23:02,550 --> 00:23:05,940 Dave Jones: Yes, what exactly is going on around for a long time? 351 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:06,300 Is 352 00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:08,820 Adam Curry: this because now is this people who are just using 353 00:23:08,850 --> 00:23:12,780 WordPress is it people who are using the power press plug in? 354 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,840 Is it what what exactly happened there? Do you know? 355 00:23:16,860 --> 00:23:23,700 Dave Jones: Yeah, do you notice that there's a win win pie its 356 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:28,290 power to power precious you owe it is power press okay. Yes, 357 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,280 when power press first released support for the podcast good. 358 00:23:34,110 --> 00:23:41,640 They had a bug in their in their code where it was giving 359 00:23:41,670 --> 00:23:44,010 everybody the same good. Right. 360 00:23:44,010 --> 00:23:45,750 Adam Curry: Okay, that makes that's what we're seeing. And 361 00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:48,240 there's a lot of them. Right? And then 362 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,010 Dave Jones: they they fix the bug. But there's many feeds out 363 00:23:53,010 --> 00:23:55,590 there that haven't upgraded to until a later version of power 364 00:23:55,590 --> 00:23:59,370 press yet. Okay, and so those things are sticking around with 365 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,460 the buggy code where they're duplicating do IDs but 366 00:24:02,460 --> 00:24:04,770 Adam Curry: once people upgrade their power press plug in then 367 00:24:04,770 --> 00:24:05,610 it fixes it 368 00:24:07,650 --> 00:24:11,520 Dave Jones: yes, what if if they if they ever do you know like 369 00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:13,590 Adam Curry: well I can tell hornqvist for sure because he's 370 00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:16,380 one of them. That's where it came from. It's like hey, d h 371 00:24:16,380 --> 00:24:21,060 unplugged has Bo has this this GUID that is in the in the index 372 00:24:21,060 --> 00:24:25,170 a million times I could tell him to upgrade and 373 00:24:25,170 --> 00:24:27,150 Dave Jones: the last time I checked and I don't know if you 374 00:24:27,150 --> 00:24:29,700 have a hard number on it but the last time I checked it was like 375 00:24:30,060 --> 00:24:32,130 something like 300 feeds or something like 376 00:24:32,130 --> 00:24:34,350 Adam Curry: that. I didn't I did not didn't count 377 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,070 Dave Jones: it wasn't like it was just like no it's not a 378 00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:40,740 Adam Curry: horrible no it's not horrible, but it's you know, but 379 00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:44,190 DHL unplugged is a big show and it should have its own good so 380 00:24:44,250 --> 00:24:47,400 I'll make greatest power press that's what I'm saying. Yeah, 381 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,200 I'll tell him to upgrade his power press because that's the 382 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,610 problem. Obviously. 383 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,480 Dave Jones: Yeah, it I mean Todd can jump in there and correct us 384 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,530 if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm remember this when it 385 00:24:58,530 --> 00:25:03,240 happened because You know, where it first showed up? was in 386 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,680 transcribe.fm? 387 00:25:04,830 --> 00:25:08,250 Adam Curry: Ah, right now I remember that. Yeah, it was you 388 00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:08,730 would ask 389 00:25:08,730 --> 00:25:10,950 Dave Jones: transcribe.fm for a transcript, and it would give 390 00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:14,160 you back a transcript from some other show. You're like what? 391 00:25:14,220 --> 00:25:17,790 Oops. Yeah. And you and then we figured out that it was because 392 00:25:18,060 --> 00:25:19,680 it was because of this issue. I wonder 393 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,010 Adam Curry: if pod press has some pingback that they can that 394 00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:27,420 they can tell their plugin users like, hey, grayzone acid 395 00:25:27,570 --> 00:25:33,810 Dave Jones: as dyno dot fmoS. Dan? Oh, yeah. Sorry. The yatris 396 00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:40,080 didn't know that of him. I mean, he can. Maybe that's commonly we 397 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,970 need Todd to chime in. Yeah. Yeah. 398 00:25:42,990 --> 00:25:46,410 Adam Curry: Second thing, which I think is a good thing, and 399 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:55,050 this was a long thread. And this is something that true fans has 400 00:25:55,050 --> 00:26:02,460 implemented. And I think Dolby das RSS blue is is implementing 401 00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:07,650 it is publisher feeds. This and I know we've discussed this. So 402 00:26:07,710 --> 00:26:10,740 let me just give you what I believe publisher feeds, are you 403 00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:15,240 correct me or not? Because it's easier that way, instead of me 404 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,790 interpreting what you just said about rust. Okay, so publisher 405 00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:25,260 feeds is a feed that will be marked with a special medium, or 406 00:26:25,260 --> 00:26:27,720 whatever this is, this is a publisher feed. And it will 407 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:33,930 mainly have remote item from remote items in there. So that 408 00:26:33,930 --> 00:26:38,460 you can always go to the publisher. And so I may be the 409 00:26:38,460 --> 00:26:42,330 publisher of three different podcasts, I might even be the 410 00:26:42,330 --> 00:26:46,620 publisher of an audio book, etc, etc. And that would all be in my 411 00:26:46,620 --> 00:26:51,210 publisher feed, which makes things for podcasting. There's 412 00:26:51,210 --> 00:26:55,800 all kinds of uses, but there's definitely uses for music. So 413 00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:58,800 the am I do I have that? Right? That's what a publisher feed is. 414 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,510 Dave Jones: Yeah, well, yeah. Had this on the list. So I went 415 00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:07,980 to see I wrote down a couple of notes. Yeah, that the publisher, 416 00:27:08,610 --> 00:27:11,310 they're there. They're valid. Yeah, right there validation 417 00:27:11,310 --> 00:27:15,180 process. Is there's there's a feed for publishers that 418 00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:19,440 contains remote items. Yeah. Yeah. And remote items is 419 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,300 basically a feed of feeds. Yeah, 420 00:27:21,330 --> 00:27:24,330 Adam Curry: exactly. So um, so I could have a feed of all of my 421 00:27:24,540 --> 00:27:27,870 podcasts. And you could subscribe to that feed, and 422 00:27:27,870 --> 00:27:32,010 you'd get every new episode from each podcast that I publish 423 00:27:32,190 --> 00:27:35,820 through that feed if you wanted to correct? 424 00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:47,130 Dave Jones: It? Well. I mean, I think I think you could code it 425 00:27:47,130 --> 00:27:50,220 Adam Curry: that way. Okay. I understood, okay. It's more for 426 00:27:50,220 --> 00:27:54,330 display purposes than for under the hood functionality. But it 427 00:27:54,330 --> 00:27:55,770 could be that way. 428 00:27:56,250 --> 00:27:59,040 Dave Jones: You were the way you described it as sort of like an 429 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,630 OPML I knew 430 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,110 Adam Curry: it was coming out of my mouth. I'm like, Dude, I just 431 00:28:04,110 --> 00:28:08,130 I just gave him an OPML feed now. Okay. But 432 00:28:08,130 --> 00:28:09,840 Dave Jones: I think you could do that, though. I mean, like, 433 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,810 like, you could code it up that way where you could look at it. 434 00:28:12,810 --> 00:28:17,430 And then and then like, sort of parse it. Like, you could go 435 00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:20,370 through to the source that yeah, you could do that. But I don't 436 00:28:20,370 --> 00:28:22,950 know that. That was what their goal was. 437 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,040 Adam Curry: Something to consider perhaps. Yeah, 438 00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:28,170 Dave Jones: yeah, for sure. So well, they had two different 439 00:28:28,170 --> 00:28:31,650 versions. And did you see that it was like, it was like a 440 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,640 publisher that a publisher feed and then meet this, these are 441 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,240 mediums we're talking about? Publisher medium equals 442 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,410 publisher in this feed. So when that when it's a feed of, of 443 00:28:43,410 --> 00:28:46,200 medium publisher, you know, that this is basically just a list 444 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:52,830 of, of other feeds where this, this publisher owns and then 445 00:28:52,830 --> 00:28:57,930 there was a publisher l was like, A, so you have a feed of 446 00:28:57,990 --> 00:29:02,010 other feeds, and then you have sort of like a playlist of other 447 00:29:02,010 --> 00:29:05,100 feeds, which is more what you're thinking, kind of like along 448 00:29:05,100 --> 00:29:08,700 lines of you're thinking of, oh, okay, oh, really following? 449 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:09,270 Alright, 450 00:29:09,270 --> 00:29:11,910 Adam Curry: so there's two, or I hadn't figured that one out yet. 451 00:29:11,940 --> 00:29:14,460 Okay. So that's very much like this. That's a playlist because 452 00:29:14,460 --> 00:29:19,110 it's L. So a playlist. Okay. I don't see why you wouldn't just 453 00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:22,530 have one and just parse a different one. I guess it's the 454 00:29:22,530 --> 00:29:28,470 same thing. Just seems like, if you I mean, you'd want it, it 455 00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:30,990 seems to me, like you'd want to have the functionality in both 456 00:29:31,020 --> 00:29:32,040 both cases. 457 00:29:33,270 --> 00:29:37,080 Dave Jones: Well, the sort of the whole idea here, I think 458 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:42,960 it's I mean, I think it's a good one to is that you have you 459 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,170 can't you know, you're trying to avoid this situation where, 460 00:29:46,380 --> 00:29:54,810 okay, I'm I I'm a feed and I need to and I'm gonna, and I'm 461 00:29:54,810 --> 00:30:02,910 claiming that I'm published by The New York Times as show that 462 00:30:02,940 --> 00:30:11,130 somewhere in my author tag or whatever. And then but but um, 463 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,740 but I'm lying about that I don't, I'm not actually a New 464 00:30:13,740 --> 00:30:17,040 York Times feed, I'm just trying to ride that train or whatever. 465 00:30:18,330 --> 00:30:22,380 Then you have this, all you have this other side, which is the 466 00:30:22,380 --> 00:30:28,170 publisher feed, which, if it lists your feed URL, as part of 467 00:30:28,170 --> 00:30:34,890 its member, as a member, and you list the publisher feed as your 468 00:30:34,890 --> 00:30:39,210 parent, well, then you have sort of this dual LIS loose dual 469 00:30:39,210 --> 00:30:41,760 validation, where it's like I'm saying, I belong to you, and 470 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,140 you're saying that I belong to you. So we can be, we can be 471 00:30:46,140 --> 00:30:47,160 sure that I belong to you. 472 00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:48,780 Adam Curry: Okay, that makes sense. 473 00:30:49,860 --> 00:30:51,690 Dave Jones: Because the only other way to do it is with 474 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,460 something like public, you know, like a public key signing, right 475 00:30:56,460 --> 00:31:00,180 Adam Curry: work. So where does that go in the so if I'm the 476 00:31:00,180 --> 00:31:04,320 publisher of several podcasts, and I have no agenda, and I want 477 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,370 to validate no agenda as being a part of the Adam curry 478 00:31:08,490 --> 00:31:14,310 publishing empire, where where in my no agenda feed? What I put 479 00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:15,930 what, for that validation. 480 00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:21,150 Dave Jones: But my understanding was that there was a, there was 481 00:31:21,150 --> 00:31:27,090 a new tag for publisher. Let me make sure that this right. And 482 00:31:27,090 --> 00:31:29,880 Adam Curry: that, so the tag for publisher of that would have a 483 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,750 feed URL, and that refers back and back and forth. And it has a 484 00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:36,720 validation in the publisher, remote item feed. 485 00:31:37,470 --> 00:31:41,970 Dave Jones: So yes, in the content. Okay, so here's Yeah, 486 00:31:41,970 --> 00:31:46,740 okay, this is this is. Okay, here's how I'm looking at it 487 00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:50,250 right now. There's a couple of a couple of proposed ways to do 488 00:31:50,250 --> 00:31:56,160 it. But this one is using remote items with a medium of 489 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:09,120 publisher. So the remote Yeah. So the medium of Publisher. Let 490 00:32:09,690 --> 00:32:11,670 me try to this is this gets confusing when you're trying to 491 00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:16,350 just no kidding. describes it. Okay, you're the New York Times. 492 00:32:17,910 --> 00:32:21,810 Let's use you. Okay, so you are you are Adam curry. You have 493 00:32:21,810 --> 00:32:27,210 currently what how many 12345? Podcasts, something 494 00:32:27,210 --> 00:32:27,990 Adam Curry: like that? Yeah. 495 00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:30,300 Dave Jones: No agenda, podcasting tip when no 496 00:32:30,330 --> 00:32:33,420 Adam Curry: learning facts boost the ground scramble. 497 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,500 Dave Jones: Yeah, the five you have five shows. So you would 498 00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:40,860 put you would, you would create a new feed, which would be a 499 00:32:40,860 --> 00:32:46,560 publisher, which would be a feed where it had a podcast medium of 500 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:52,830 Publisher, then you would have remote items in you would have 501 00:32:52,830 --> 00:32:58,710 five remote items in the channel of that feed. Yep, the one for 502 00:32:58,710 --> 00:33:03,810 each of those shows with referencing, you know, the feed 503 00:33:03,810 --> 00:33:10,980 good, the URL, the medium. So then you in each of your shows 504 00:33:10,980 --> 00:33:14,220 where you have in each of the actual feeds, no agenda, 505 00:33:14,250 --> 00:33:18,000 podcasts and YouTube Topo, Mofaz blah, blah, blah. In each of 506 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:27,300 those shows, you would put in a podcast remote item, link back 507 00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:31,740 to the publisher feed. And the remote item would be a medium of 508 00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:37,080 Publisher. Okay, that would serve as a link back to the 509 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,500 parent sort of the the publishing to publisher parent 510 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:44,760 feed. To say I belong to this publisher got 511 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,730 Adam Curry: it? Who is this for? Who gives a rat's ass about this 512 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:48,840 is what I'm trying to understand. 513 00:33:49,650 --> 00:33:54,270 Dave Jones: Musicians primarily. Okay, good. That makes so yeah, 514 00:33:54,270 --> 00:33:57,870 like you would have. That way you could have as many fields as 515 00:33:57,870 --> 00:34:00,210 you want. But if you if somebody wants to say I want to listen to 516 00:34:00,210 --> 00:34:02,280 all the albums by easily Costello, 517 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,820 Adam Curry: then you go to the publisher, Okay, God, that makes 518 00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:06,570 total sense. 519 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,450 Dave Jones: And you can follow it up the chain too. So if 520 00:34:09,450 --> 00:34:13,590 you're on one of her albums, you have a link by default going to 521 00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:18,330 the publisher feed. So you can sort of step up one level and 522 00:34:18,330 --> 00:34:20,490 Adam Curry: this a what other what other albums does Ainslie 523 00:34:20,490 --> 00:34:25,230 Costello have? Exactly? How does God which could even be a sub 524 00:34:25,860 --> 00:34:29,790 sub publisher of like a bigger entity? 525 00:34:31,469 --> 00:34:31,919 Dave Jones: Yeah, 526 00:34:32,519 --> 00:34:35,609 Adam Curry: for sure. So can it can you include a I guess you 527 00:34:35,609 --> 00:34:39,329 can, um, so she could. She could be Ainsley Costello. She's a 528 00:34:39,329 --> 00:34:45,749 publisher of all these albums, but but she is then a sub of 529 00:34:45,749 --> 00:34:50,699 like phantom power records or whatever. Yeah, so this could 530 00:34:50,699 --> 00:34:54,389 put a publisher tag in that would refer up to her record, 531 00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:58,319 quote, unquote, record label or whatever the entity is, or which 532 00:34:58,319 --> 00:35:02,459 goes all the way up to God ultimately Scott's got sitting 533 00:35:02,459 --> 00:35:05,549 at the top with this big publisher tag and a lot of 534 00:35:05,549 --> 00:35:06,299 remote items. 535 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:09,209 Dave Jones: And in his guid is is one. 536 00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:13,380 Adam Curry: Exactly. Okay. 537 00:35:14,250 --> 00:35:19,470 Dave Jones: So you can see that as something like what's a good 538 00:35:19,470 --> 00:35:24,270 example of that? Like? Wonder that wondering, aren't they 539 00:35:24,270 --> 00:35:27,420 owned by Amazon? Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah. Okay. So you 540 00:35:27,420 --> 00:35:35,310 could have a wondery Publisher list, but then Amazon podcasts 541 00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:40,890 could be like, one level higher. Got it. That had multiple 542 00:35:40,890 --> 00:35:45,360 publisher feeds in that feed? Yeah. 543 00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:48,690 Adam Curry: Yeah. Makes sense. Okay. Well, so what do we need 544 00:35:48,690 --> 00:35:50,610 to do to to make that official? 545 00:35:52,020 --> 00:35:56,100 Dave Jones: Well, I have it on my list. To put it into that we 546 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:58,380 need to talk about this in general. So I mean, this is 547 00:35:58,380 --> 00:36:06,600 like, for show of 2024. Baby, we have to talk about strategy. For 548 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:07,800 what for phase seven. 549 00:36:10,980 --> 00:36:17,400 Adam Curry: First, hot namespace talk. 2024 is hotter than 2023. 550 00:36:18,780 --> 00:36:21,450 Dave Jones: The hottest, the hottest new year on record best, 551 00:36:21,450 --> 00:36:29,520 right? According to the IPCC. Yes. So we I mean, like, I don't 552 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,500 know if we have we haven't faced seven. I don't know if we've 553 00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:38,880 talked about it. Well, we haven't faced seven so far. Is 554 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,420 only actually I was actually in the activity pub bridge code 555 00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:46,320 here. And I think I found the unwrap this that killed us. 556 00:36:47,489 --> 00:36:49,139 Adam Curry: Shirts irritates you. 557 00:36:52,170 --> 00:36:53,670 Dave Jones: Let me get back to the namespace repo though. 558 00:36:53,700 --> 00:36:57,000 Because I have a have a plan doc for 559 00:36:58,170 --> 00:37:00,390 Adam Curry: Facebook. He's got a plan. And he's the man with the 560 00:37:00,390 --> 00:37:02,730 plan. The plan? Okay, here it is. 561 00:37:03,150 --> 00:37:07,830 Dave Jones: So what we have on the list right now is to try to 562 00:37:07,830 --> 00:37:13,110 get into Phase seven is authorization. So this this 563 00:37:13,110 --> 00:37:19,800 podcast, verify ownership tag thing. Adding keys and addresses 564 00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:25,890 in the value recipient? And chat, podcast chat 565 00:37:25,889 --> 00:37:28,859 Adam Curry: tag, say again, given them again, sorry, I was 566 00:37:28,859 --> 00:37:31,229 distracted. Podcast, 567 00:37:32,220 --> 00:37:37,470 Dave Jones: the verify ownership. And then adding the 568 00:37:37,770 --> 00:37:39,540 adding the keys and address. 569 00:37:39,630 --> 00:37:40,590 Adam Curry: Right, right. 570 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:41,850 Dave Jones: To the value received. 571 00:37:42,359 --> 00:37:44,099 Adam Curry: The LV found tag. Yeah, 572 00:37:44,609 --> 00:37:48,239 Dave Jones: that'll be found thing. Then the podcast chat 573 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,379 tag, which is the the, you know, ephemeral version of social 574 00:37:52,379 --> 00:37:56,999 interact. And that's, that's all this in the plan right now. So 575 00:37:57,299 --> 00:38:02,099 we could, we could get So two questions. I mean, we add this, 576 00:38:02,489 --> 00:38:04,619 I can add this right now. I think I should the publisher, 577 00:38:04,619 --> 00:38:04,949 then 578 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,370 Adam Curry: well, we have implementations. That's usually 579 00:38:08,370 --> 00:38:12,150 our rule. No, right. Now, of course, that means Sam Sethi 580 00:38:12,150 --> 00:38:14,490 will be driving the entire namespace because he implements 581 00:38:14,490 --> 00:38:17,700 everything. He wakes up in the morning. I got an idea. Boom, 582 00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:18,990 make it a tag. 583 00:38:21,659 --> 00:38:25,349 Dave Jones: This is what Okay, the rule we typically was the 584 00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:29,489 loose rule was always we need at least one host at least one app 585 00:38:29,489 --> 00:38:33,479 to implement it. Yeah. We have no need to say we made we need 586 00:38:33,479 --> 00:38:36,539 made it expand that to say at least two apps because Sam's 587 00:38:36,539 --> 00:38:40,559 going to implement everything. So we need we may need to Sam's 588 00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:44,069 the default. We either either gimme right, so we needed we 589 00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:48,329 need to we need two apps. We need some we need Sam plus one. 590 00:38:48,629 --> 00:38:48,959 One 591 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,600 Adam Curry: host and two apps or two hosts on two apps. 592 00:38:52,290 --> 00:38:56,070 Dave Jones: One One host and then whoever sent the 593 00:38:56,340 --> 00:38:58,950 Adam Curry: Girls One Cup somehow that just jumped into my 594 00:38:58,950 --> 00:39:02,970 head. I don't know what happened there. Yes. 221 host two s one 595 00:39:02,970 --> 00:39:05,580 host two apps. Okay, that's that sounds fair. 596 00:39:07,110 --> 00:39:09,810 Dave Jones: And I think I mean no well I mean wavelengths 597 00:39:09,810 --> 00:39:12,270 already talking about it. Dobby Das is the one that yeah, 598 00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:15,000 Adam Curry: he's he's running with scissors over there. Yeah. 599 00:39:15,780 --> 00:39:15,960 So 600 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,240 Dave Jones: there's there's your two hosts. There's there's two 601 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:19,530 hosts out there. Yeah. 602 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,540 Adam Curry: So we just need one more app to implement it 603 00:39:21,929 --> 00:39:24,629 Dave Jones: was I mean, that's Steven Bell's a slam dunk 604 00:39:24,629 --> 00:39:26,219 because he wants this functionality. 605 00:39:26,789 --> 00:39:29,489 Adam Curry: Yeah, cuz he will put it into ln beats and all 606 00:39:29,489 --> 00:39:34,439 that stuff. And curio Kassar by the way, if I can geniza if I 607 00:39:34,439 --> 00:39:39,389 can just say thank you, Steven b He made an integration between M 608 00:39:39,389 --> 00:39:43,499 airless which is the playout software I use and the split 609 00:39:43,499 --> 00:39:48,869 kit. So now, when I end up doing a Bookstagram ball tomorrow, God 610 00:39:48,869 --> 00:39:53,699 willing, when I hear this been well, yeah, tell me about it. So 611 00:39:53,699 --> 00:39:57,239 now I just load up the song into my player. The minute I hit the 612 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:03,209 play button, the timer set The start time in the split kit. Oh, 613 00:40:03,209 --> 00:40:06,629 well, I no longer have to start and then go over there and then 614 00:40:06,659 --> 00:40:09,809 click, click to make that the active block for the remote 615 00:40:09,809 --> 00:40:16,109 item. It just does it and it's it's like magic. It's beautiful 616 00:40:16,109 --> 00:40:17,849 how he did that is so cool. 617 00:40:19,050 --> 00:40:23,370 Dave Jones: Walking. Let's see, like how did he do that though? 618 00:40:23,370 --> 00:40:26,220 Because I thought I thought in their list was a compiled like a 619 00:40:26,220 --> 00:40:27,870 Windows software. Yes, 620 00:40:27,870 --> 00:40:33,300 Adam Curry: but you have a see what it's called here. Because 621 00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:37,680 errorless is meant for, you know, radio type deals. So you 622 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:47,430 have a blogging function, and you can add stuff to it. So you 623 00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:53,490 could technically send the song data to your icecast server, but 624 00:40:53,490 --> 00:41:01,200 also as HTTP GET. So you send a GET request to the curio hoster 625 00:41:01,230 --> 00:41:06,270 with some Steven Bell magic sauce. Yes. And on the split 626 00:41:06,270 --> 00:41:10,770 kit, you have the answer you give it a username password pair 627 00:41:10,830 --> 00:41:14,940 in an Error List and that corresponds with your username 628 00:41:14,940 --> 00:41:19,440 password pair in the split kit. And then when you download the 629 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:25,170 songs through the split kit, the has metadata in there that 630 00:41:25,170 --> 00:41:32,970 identifies what song it is. And so you so that is sent to from 631 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,260 Mr. List to the Steven Bell empire. And then the Steven Bell 632 00:41:37,260 --> 00:41:41,280 Empire goes ah, okay, who's logged in as this? Oh, it's him. 633 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:42,420 Boom. WebSocket 634 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,470 Dave Jones: this, this is like 635 00:41:46,469 --> 00:41:49,109 Adam Curry: a web hook. Yeah, yeah, web hook. I think what is 636 00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:52,469 Yeah, okay. Beautiful. Was who cares what it is? It works. 637 00:41:53,099 --> 00:41:55,229 Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. That's rad, though. This is cool that 638 00:41:55,229 --> 00:41:56,309 they have that ability. 639 00:41:56,369 --> 00:41:59,009 Adam Curry: It's, it's yet again, Rube Goldberg machine. 640 00:42:00,269 --> 00:42:03,929 It's so beautiful. I love this stuff. I love it so much. 641 00:42:04,589 --> 00:42:08,309 Dave Jones: Okay, so I just added I just added publisher 642 00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:11,189 phase to phase seven to the plan list to the 643 00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:16,140 Adam Curry: plan. But we still need a second app. Well, we have 644 00:42:16,140 --> 00:42:18,990 the we have we have Stephen Bell, of course. Beautiful. And 645 00:42:18,989 --> 00:42:21,059 Dave Jones: we don't have we don't have explicit 646 00:42:21,059 --> 00:42:21,839 confirmation. But 647 00:42:24,449 --> 00:42:26,189 Adam Curry: you feel let me see smiles. You feel me? 648 00:42:26,219 --> 00:42:31,829 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's there. He's just slammed on. Added 649 00:42:31,829 --> 00:42:34,079 face. Okay. All right. We got that covered. 650 00:42:34,229 --> 00:42:37,349 Adam Curry: I have something to discuss. Yeah. What's your 651 00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:44,849 behavior? Dave Jones? No. It's like one of those honey, we have 652 00:42:44,849 --> 00:42:45,719 to talk. But. 653 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,620 Dave Jones: But no, the worst is worse than that. When this like, 654 00:42:49,860 --> 00:42:53,760 Hey, can we talk? Oh, no, but not right. But not right. Later. 655 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:53,970 Can 656 00:42:53,969 --> 00:42:58,379 Adam Curry: we? Can we have a chat later? Yeah. It's the 657 00:42:58,379 --> 00:43:01,559 worst. I had two of those. I'm divorced twice. Alright, here we 658 00:43:01,559 --> 00:43:06,029 go. So I'm listening to the new media show. I didn't pull clips. 659 00:43:07,169 --> 00:43:11,249 And he was really quite beautiful, because I finally 660 00:43:11,249 --> 00:43:16,139 understood not only how messed up but how the podcast 661 00:43:16,139 --> 00:43:20,279 advertising system works. And I've always wondered because I 662 00:43:20,279 --> 00:43:25,019 thought everybody was kind of on this IAB standard. And didn't 663 00:43:25,019 --> 00:43:29,939 really matter where you host that stuff. But it does. It sure 664 00:43:29,939 --> 00:43:38,039 does. And the IAB standard has some minimums, which, whatever 665 00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:43,319 it is, they are able to determine unique download slash 666 00:43:43,319 --> 00:43:47,999 play, like someone hit the play button. For for a minute of 667 00:43:47,999 --> 00:43:52,199 audio, that's their minimum for a minute of audio. And they can 668 00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:56,609 kind of determine uniqueness by setting time windows. I think 669 00:43:56,609 --> 00:44:00,809 it's if unless you see that that identifier come back within two 670 00:44:00,809 --> 00:44:08,759 hours, is considered the same. The person and everybody has 671 00:44:08,759 --> 00:44:15,029 different implementations of this IAB standard. And so it's 672 00:44:15,029 --> 00:44:19,859 not uniform at all. And what's interesting is that the ad 673 00:44:19,859 --> 00:44:24,449 buyers, they have their own knowledge, they have their own 674 00:44:24,449 --> 00:44:28,079 spreadsheets and they know exactly, okay, well, those guys, 675 00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:32,579 they over count, so we discount them here. This, you know, we 676 00:44:32,579 --> 00:44:37,499 feel that and I probably think that blueberry is probably one 677 00:44:37,499 --> 00:44:41,099 of the best at the stats because Todd has invested by his own 678 00:44:41,669 --> 00:44:46,499 admission of a lot of time and resources and years and he has a 679 00:44:46,499 --> 00:44:51,149 lot of external sources for you know, bots and bullcrap and all 680 00:44:51,149 --> 00:44:57,689 kinds of gaming, etc. So, when people get when, when there's an 681 00:44:57,689 --> 00:45:02,939 ad buy and the podcast is on blueberry. The advertisers will 682 00:45:02,939 --> 00:45:07,499 probably give the the expected CPM because they know that 683 00:45:07,499 --> 00:45:10,169 Todd's numbers are pretty good. weight 684 00:45:10,170 --> 00:45:12,840 Dave Jones: by his he said multiple times that he throws 685 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,880 out tons of data like yes, he over he overcorrect. Yes. 686 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:18,930 Purpose. Yes. 687 00:45:19,409 --> 00:45:25,829 Adam Curry: So when the iOS 17, apocalypse happened, his numbers 688 00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:30,959 didn't really go down because he has formulas and secret sauce as 689 00:45:30,959 --> 00:45:35,279 he calls it, which I have no desire to taste. Yes, 690 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,070 Dave Jones: yourselves to yourself. 691 00:45:40,020 --> 00:45:45,030 Adam Curry: He has secret sauce, that he says that he has, that 692 00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:50,880 certain apps have certain behavior that he's bench tested, 693 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,080 you know, over the years, and so he he can get pretty close to 694 00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:02,250 like 70% or 75% of the actual listens, have a percentage of 695 00:46:02,490 --> 00:46:05,370 the podcast apps or the person that the people who are 696 00:46:05,370 --> 00:46:10,140 listening to that podcast, which is pretty good. And I'm sure 697 00:46:10,140 --> 00:46:13,110 that it varies. And I'm sure that you know, when when, when 698 00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:16,950 there's an upgrade to some player, I'm sure he has to go in 699 00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:19,140 and everyone has to scramble around and figure out does 700 00:46:19,140 --> 00:46:23,760 something change, etc. But it's all the bottom line is, it's all 701 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,410 bull crap. All of it is all ultimately just measuring one 702 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,500 minute of download, which of course gives the advertiser 703 00:46:31,740 --> 00:46:36,090 really nothing. And, you know, the industry has moved from 704 00:46:36,090 --> 00:46:40,500 calling it downloads to plays. Okay, so on the hit play, but 705 00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:42,810 they really don't know if someone listened at all. I mean, 706 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:48,030 nobody absolutely knows if people are listening, or how far 707 00:46:48,030 --> 00:46:50,550 they've listened into the podcast, or if they listened far 708 00:46:50,550 --> 00:46:55,020 enough to hear the ads. I mean, that's, that's clear. And, and 709 00:46:55,020 --> 00:47:00,150 so ultimately, when you pop all the way back up the stack, the 710 00:47:00,150 --> 00:47:03,450 advertisers themselves who go through the media, or the agency 711 00:47:03,450 --> 00:47:07,140 to the media buyer, ultimately down to either the podcast 712 00:47:07,140 --> 00:47:12,090 network, or whoever's doing the buys. And so they they wind up a 713 00:47:12,090 --> 00:47:15,810 bet, blueberry, and blueberry says, Okay, here's how our stats 714 00:47:15,810 --> 00:47:18,060 work. This is we're going to give you in the results. And 715 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,000 there's a reckoning after the fact and that reckoning is, 716 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:28,080 okay, we agreed on for your network, we do $20 CPM, so $20 717 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:33,810 per 1000 plays. But if we did a buy and also include something 718 00:47:33,810 --> 00:47:36,720 that's on Libsyn, I have no idea. So I'm just using Lipson 719 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:41,280 as an example. They may say, Well, we only give you $15 CPM, 720 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,940 because we know that your numbers are shit. And so yeah, 721 00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:47,490 pretty much and they may not. And they may not communicate 722 00:47:47,490 --> 00:47:50,100 that for between blueberry and Lipson. So this really works 723 00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:54,090 more by podcast host, or in a case of like megaphone, let's 724 00:47:54,090 --> 00:47:57,360 just call them the host. So and there's it's very complicated. 725 00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,390 There's a lot of overheads, a lot of log file processing. 726 00:48:00,570 --> 00:48:03,330 Seems like millions and millions have been invested in that. But 727 00:48:03,330 --> 00:48:08,430 there's no, Nielsen, there is no Nielsen for podcast statistics. 728 00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:11,490 I thought there was I thought that what AIB was, but it's not 729 00:48:11,490 --> 00:48:15,060 true. And but there's an adjustment that that media 730 00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:18,450 buyers who of course, are very smart. They know all right, 731 00:48:18,450 --> 00:48:21,510 those guys over count those guys simply to raise pretty 732 00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:23,430 reasonable I don't know what that spreadsheet looks like, 733 00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:28,080 doesn't matter. But nobody really knows play numbers. And 734 00:48:28,140 --> 00:48:30,870 so they had this long conversation, Rob seemed kind of 735 00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:34,650 shocked by this. Rob seemed shocked that Todd was admitting 736 00:48:34,650 --> 00:48:38,910 that it's crap. But Todd doesn't care. Because all the people who 737 00:48:38,970 --> 00:48:43,350 are on his on his infrastructure, they get good 738 00:48:43,350 --> 00:48:48,720 numbers and advertisers feel, or media buyers feel confident that 739 00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:52,500 those numbers are good. Now, ultimately, the advertiser, 740 00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:56,160 they'll look at their return on investment, which is the typical 741 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,150 half of my advertising money is working. I don't know which half 742 00:49:00,180 --> 00:49:03,450 because they really don't. All they know is they put X amount 743 00:49:03,450 --> 00:49:07,140 in and then sales went up. That's how it's supposed to work 744 00:49:07,170 --> 00:49:11,190 now, where that comes from, that comes into analysis. And it 745 00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:13,800 could be you know, did it come from Tiktok, but they may know 746 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,900 some things. So all of this is very, very, very fuzzy. And then 747 00:49:18,900 --> 00:49:21,870 they get into this big conversation about nobody has 748 00:49:21,870 --> 00:49:24,900 player stats, nobody has player stats yet. Well, actually, 749 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:31,590 Spotify does, but Spotify. Who knows what they're doing. And I 750 00:49:31,590 --> 00:49:36,120 just want to say up front, I love value for value. I think it 751 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:41,280 is the way forward in general, for all media for all media. 752 00:49:42,690 --> 00:49:46,380 It's a fair way to do it. Only the stuff that is really 753 00:49:46,380 --> 00:49:49,680 outstanding product and can build a community because we're 754 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,290 not in the land of one way television. We're not in the 755 00:49:52,290 --> 00:49:56,850 land of one way radio is interactive. You only get people 756 00:49:56,850 --> 00:49:59,550 to support you with time, talent and treasure which by the way 757 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,540 Time, and talent is very valuable. You know, there are 758 00:50:03,540 --> 00:50:07,290 people who are do things for my shows that would I could not 759 00:50:07,290 --> 00:50:11,460 afford, no matter how much money I made on the podcast. So it's, 760 00:50:11,490 --> 00:50:14,820 it's, it's also very valuable. I love value for value that's in 761 00:50:14,820 --> 00:50:19,500 my heart. I am not anti marketing, I'm just not, you 762 00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:24,600 can't be the world, the economy runs on marketing. What I'm 763 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:31,860 against is that the podcast industrial complex, completely 764 00:50:31,860 --> 00:50:37,380 ignores, in fact, is very rude towards the audience, and 765 00:50:37,410 --> 00:50:42,390 ignores the relationship that can and should exist between 766 00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:47,100 between the podcaster and the audience. That relationship is 767 00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:51,960 everything. And what I mean by that is if I say, Please boost 768 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:58,470 us people boost us, if I say, Please, use this app, a portion 769 00:50:58,470 --> 00:51:01,350 of the audience goes to use that app, I do that every single no 770 00:51:01,350 --> 00:51:05,310 agenda show you and if you go look at op three for no agenda 771 00:51:05,310 --> 00:51:08,400 show, you'll see that pod verse is very high. Up Now I've 772 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,110 started talking about podcast guru. And so it works. And this 773 00:51:13,110 --> 00:51:16,650 is the this is the relationship. If I say go buy this product. If 774 00:51:16,650 --> 00:51:19,650 I if I was honest, and I'm authentic, I think people go buy 775 00:51:19,650 --> 00:51:24,960 that product. Yeah. So the way that has worked out with 776 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,890 advertising, I'm just gonna say marketing, because it's more 777 00:51:28,890 --> 00:51:32,490 fair to say marketing than advertising. But he's really, I 778 00:51:32,490 --> 00:51:35,400 know, this sucks. I'm gonna throw these ads in your face, 779 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,120 but you're supporting us. That's not a way to go. This very 780 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:43,560 negative, very negative relationship. And even if even 781 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,490 the podcasters say it, they forget the stupid, they forget 782 00:51:47,490 --> 00:51:50,880 to even say that. Now there's a lot of podcasts say, hey, you 783 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,880 know, I gotta I got advertisers, please visit their websites. I'm 784 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,510 gonna read off their names. Now. Whatever it is. It's irritating, 785 00:51:57,510 --> 00:52:03,900 but it feels better. But the one thing that nobody has, is those 786 00:52:03,900 --> 00:52:06,720 player stats except we do. 787 00:52:08,099 --> 00:52:11,519 Dave Jones: And who we we are against index? 788 00:52:12,060 --> 00:52:16,200 Adam Curry: Well, let me start about me first. I have extremely 789 00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:21,690 valuable play statistics. Of all my podcasts, in fact, DeVore I 790 00:52:21,690 --> 00:52:24,660 can I use it regularly? Because when people are streaming 791 00:52:24,660 --> 00:52:29,100 Satoshis per minute, is it the whole audience? No. Is it a 792 00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:32,700 percentage of the audience? Yes. Can I make a reasonable 793 00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:38,220 assumption? So for example, I look at it, I never look at 794 00:52:38,220 --> 00:52:40,770 downloads. I mean, once in a while, I look at just what what 795 00:52:40,770 --> 00:52:45,120 does op three say for, you know, the overall monthly unique users 796 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,910 or audience whatever it is, it's it's interesting doesn't Matt 797 00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:53,100 doesn't pay my rent. And I'll go look at the I'll go into 798 00:52:53,790 --> 00:52:58,290 contracts dot app, because I have a split for from no agenda 799 00:52:58,290 --> 00:53:03,600 into Alby. And then I can look at my per show, I can look at a 800 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,410 range of shows and say where people dropping off. And it's 801 00:53:07,410 --> 00:53:12,150 very, and we've noticed that it doesn't matter. If we we've 802 00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:18,090 moved art, our donation segment to the end of the show. Now, for 803 00:53:18,090 --> 00:53:20,940 a while though, it was for a couple of reasons. One, they 804 00:53:20,940 --> 00:53:25,740 were getting pretty long. And we would feel rushed, if we did it 805 00:53:25,830 --> 00:53:29,280 midway the show, like and then we start getting irritated by 806 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:34,500 longer notes, etc. And we moved it to the back. And and so the 807 00:53:34,500 --> 00:53:36,960 two things you look at is one, did we get a drop off in 808 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,200 revenue? No. But did we get a drop off on people listening? 809 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:44,370 No. Interestingly, people would come back. And that, of course, 810 00:53:44,370 --> 00:53:49,560 is people who have supported the show. And so we use these, and 811 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,410 this per minute, and you can really see it'd be every show 812 00:53:52,410 --> 00:53:56,790 people drop off over time. That's normal. But it's very, 813 00:53:56,790 --> 00:54:03,660 very valuable for how we how I run my, my podcasts to know what 814 00:54:03,660 --> 00:54:06,330 people are doing. And I'm, and I'm sitting there realizing 815 00:54:06,330 --> 00:54:12,090 like, holy crap, this is exactly the data that marketers want to 816 00:54:12,090 --> 00:54:17,670 see. They want to know, where people listening when my ad 817 00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:25,440 played. Right. So interestingly enough, yes, podcasts index does 818 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,420 have that data. Because what most of it, most of the apps get 819 00:54:30,420 --> 00:54:36,300 the value block from the index from our API. We hand off and 820 00:54:36,300 --> 00:54:40,650 the deal is you're using our API. So we want 1%. So every 821 00:54:40,650 --> 00:54:45,810 payment, we actually have that data for every single podcast 822 00:54:45,810 --> 00:54:50,820 that uses the value for value, streaming, Satoshi system. Now, 823 00:54:50,850 --> 00:54:52,170 right, I don't want to become 824 00:54:52,770 --> 00:54:56,070 Dave Jones: I will say that, let me just throw that in that. This 825 00:54:56,070 --> 00:54:59,100 is per it's totally anonymized data as well. 826 00:54:59,129 --> 00:55:02,159 Adam Curry: This is very this is Key, the only thing we have is a 827 00:55:02,159 --> 00:55:06,659 username, which often is anonymous podcast guru user or 828 00:55:06,659 --> 00:55:12,149 user 35924. Lots of times people put their their aliases in 829 00:55:12,149 --> 00:55:15,299 Sometimes people put their actual name in. But it is, in 830 00:55:15,299 --> 00:55:19,919 this effect anonymous, that we can't actually track much other 831 00:55:19,919 --> 00:55:24,059 than you sent this. If you sent a message, here's what the 832 00:55:24,059 --> 00:55:28,289 message was, here's what podcast it was from. And now with value 833 00:55:28,289 --> 00:55:33,389 time splits, we often know at what point in the in the know we 834 00:55:33,389 --> 00:55:38,849 always we know what point in the podcast what, what minutes, etc, 835 00:55:38,849 --> 00:55:39,539 it was sent. 836 00:55:40,170 --> 00:55:41,610 Dave Jones: There's no IP addresses, there's 837 00:55:41,609 --> 00:55:43,769 Adam Curry: no nothing, none of that. There's no There's no now 838 00:55:43,859 --> 00:55:47,999 if I'm just before I continue with my with my rant here, if 839 00:55:47,999 --> 00:55:51,299 I'm not mistaken, although it hasn't been implemented, there 840 00:55:51,299 --> 00:55:56,879 is a way for these value payments to be sent that the 841 00:55:56,879 --> 00:56:02,009 podcaster could hit reply and send a payment back with a 842 00:56:02,009 --> 00:56:07,799 message. Am I correct? Yes. But almost no one is doing that, or 843 00:56:07,829 --> 00:56:09,959 what are we missing for that piece to work? 844 00:56:11,250 --> 00:56:15,540 Dave Jones: Well, I don't know how many apps do it currently I 845 00:56:15,540 --> 00:56:19,890 know that we have I know that. I know that curio caster does and 846 00:56:20,100 --> 00:56:25,920 will also Steven bass apps, we can look in the we can we can 847 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,940 look in the boost in the donation segment. And we can see 848 00:56:30,030 --> 00:56:35,640 because in with any any booths that comes in, where we where we 849 00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,490 read it in the in the segment, it also has some debugging 850 00:56:38,490 --> 00:56:42,240 information that shows what all is in the TLV record. And one of 851 00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:45,750 the things that's in the to V that would show up is and I 852 00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:49,980 noticed them as I'm reading them is if it has a reply to address 853 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,370 and if it has the reply to case and address then you can you can 854 00:56:53,370 --> 00:56:54,000 boost back. 855 00:56:54,030 --> 00:56:58,680 Adam Curry: Yes, I see. Okay, so curio caster has reply, address, 856 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,700 custom key custom value, etc. Okay, and let me see fountain 857 00:57:02,730 --> 00:57:06,420 probably doesn't it's probably only curio caster, the doing 858 00:57:06,420 --> 00:57:13,440 okay, so that. So that's possible. Imagine now, we're not 859 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,650 going to become a statistics provider for anybody. We're not 860 00:57:16,650 --> 00:57:22,230 interested in that. But I can imagine a system, remember the 861 00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:25,680 most important part that everyone's overlooking in the 862 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,520 podcast industrial complex, and I'm trying to offer a solution 863 00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:34,380 at the same time and onboarding into the value for value system. 864 00:57:35,790 --> 00:57:41,220 If, if a podcaster has a tag they can put into their feed, 865 00:57:41,700 --> 00:57:46,590 which would be part of a remote item. But I will just put it 866 00:57:46,590 --> 00:57:53,640 this way. It would serve as a toggle feed in the app, which 867 00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,430 means I listened to add I'm gonna say insertions just to 868 00:57:56,430 --> 00:57:59,760 make it simple. There's other ways of doing it. But to toggle 869 00:57:59,790 --> 00:58:05,460 add insertions on or off. If I if I toggle it on, that means 870 00:58:05,460 --> 00:58:11,970 I'm going to get the inserted ad. And at the minute that ad 871 00:58:11,970 --> 00:58:17,580 plays. It's a value time split, which fires off a payment to a 872 00:58:17,580 --> 00:58:21,480 wallet that the advertiser media agency, whoever's responsible 873 00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,950 for the tracking can see. Which then immediately fires off a 874 00:58:25,950 --> 00:58:29,520 Return Payment. Thank you for listening to our ad. 875 00:58:31,530 --> 00:58:35,550 Dave Jones: A Whitney, so Okay, so So you're basically you're 876 00:58:35,580 --> 00:58:40,050 okay, you say you're, you're sending, let's just say one set, 877 00:58:41,460 --> 00:58:45,000 you're sending one set to the advertiser wallet, who then 878 00:58:45,150 --> 00:58:50,190 Adam Curry: they send you five set. So here's from the high 879 00:58:50,190 --> 00:58:56,580 level, you can support us with value for value. Or if you 880 00:58:56,580 --> 00:59:01,320 toggle the switch, we're going to work you can in the 881 00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,960 onboarding part, you can go pretty far down the road, like, 882 00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:06,990 we'll give you a wallet automatically will give you a 883 00:59:06,990 --> 00:59:10,590 wallet with 1000. SAS has a lot of things you can do. The point 884 00:59:10,590 --> 00:59:14,910 is to onboard people simply effectively and easily. If you 885 00:59:14,910 --> 00:59:19,830 toggle ads on, then the minute you listen to an ad, it will 886 00:59:19,830 --> 00:59:24,210 fire off a payment, if you will actually it will pay you for 887 00:59:24,210 --> 00:59:27,810 listening to that ad, not a lot. But when I look at the stats 888 00:59:27,810 --> 00:59:33,930 that we have, of course of all the apps fountain is is miles 889 00:59:33,930 --> 00:59:37,560 ahead and transaction volume not in payment volume necessarily, 890 00:59:38,010 --> 00:59:41,490 but in transaction volume. And I believe that's because the 891 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:46,770 onboarding that they do with listen to any old podcast, and 892 00:59:46,770 --> 00:59:49,290 we'll pay you a Satoshi per minute, which is not every 893 00:59:49,290 --> 00:59:53,460 single day etc. Because they have to manage that too. But But 894 00:59:53,460 --> 00:59:58,590 I think that onboarding has been extremely successful. So I just 895 00:59:58,590 --> 01:00:02,820 want to onboard people And ultimately, the cost of sending 896 01:00:03,060 --> 01:00:07,050 one sat back, if you do a loop or five SATs doesn't matter has 897 01:00:07,050 --> 01:00:11,250 to come out of the CPM. But I believe that that CPM will 898 01:00:11,250 --> 01:00:17,730 become more valuable. If it's wrapped up in actual play stats 899 01:00:17,730 --> 01:00:23,010 where the advertiser has confirmation that a person 900 01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:28,680 listen to that ad. And you don't even have it will only track the 901 01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:32,340 remote item, it won't track. You know, the rest of your listening 902 01:00:32,340 --> 01:00:34,620 habits. Of course, we could do that. And there's lots of other 903 01:00:34,620 --> 01:00:40,260 things we could do. But all I'm trying to say here is we have a 904 01:00:40,260 --> 01:00:45,690 universe of apps that return player information that people 905 01:00:45,690 --> 01:00:52,140 are already doing. Let's make it official, add the Add tag. So 906 01:00:52,170 --> 01:00:55,080 would surface it. Yeah, I'll listen to your ad. If if it's 907 01:00:55,110 --> 01:00:58,680 off, no insertion, how about that I'm just it's a crazy 908 01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,710 thought it was off no insertion that people are doing value for 909 01:01:01,710 --> 01:01:05,820 value. If it's on, you get an insertion, a payment fires off, 910 01:01:06,210 --> 01:01:12,390 you'll probably have maybe if we're really lucky, maybe 1% of 911 01:01:12,390 --> 01:01:16,200 all listens across the board. But just like Todd has some 912 01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:21,480 secret sauce, you could add this in. I mean, I think that would 913 01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:26,610 make the I want to destroy all other distribution systems and 914 01:01:26,610 --> 01:01:30,960 networks, okay, I want to destroy them. The way we destroy 915 01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,220 them is by making very accountable advertising work. 916 01:01:36,270 --> 01:01:40,650 And it doesn't take away from value for value. But in fact, it 917 01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:46,410 onboards people to value for value gives podcasters an extra 918 01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:50,190 revenue stream, if they don't have any ads or don't want ads, 919 01:01:50,490 --> 01:01:54,000 it can fund wallets, it can do a lot of things. I have no idea 920 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,940 how to take this further other than it would probably be a 921 01:01:56,940 --> 01:02:01,050 wallet provider who would have to create this system. But 922 01:02:01,050 --> 01:02:06,240 everybody can when everybody's incentivized, especially if the 923 01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,850 podcaster communicates to their audience. 924 01:02:15,389 --> 01:02:22,289 Dave Jones: of okay, I thought I mean, I guess the first thing 925 01:02:22,289 --> 01:02:29,339 that pops out is I say that I listened to your ad, which sends 926 01:02:29,339 --> 01:02:33,059 a set to you and I get five sets back that. I mean, that's just 927 01:02:33,539 --> 01:02:36,659 how you can avoid the the amount of the massive click for all to 928 01:02:36,659 --> 01:02:37,469 happens with that. 929 01:02:38,189 --> 01:02:40,679 Adam Curry: I mean, there's all kinds of things that I'm you 930 01:02:40,679 --> 01:02:43,439 know what I bet you Oscar has already figured out a lot of the 931 01:02:43,439 --> 01:02:46,199 click fraud stuff, of course, but we have click fraud 932 01:02:46,199 --> 01:02:50,459 everywhere. We already have it. So that will that could be we 933 01:02:50,460 --> 01:02:58,770 Dave Jones: don't but we don't have click fraud. Well, this, 934 01:02:58,860 --> 01:03:02,970 this is a direct Well, if you're an advertiser, and you have 935 01:03:02,970 --> 01:03:09,270 downloads, you can say. You can say x percentage of these 936 01:03:09,270 --> 01:03:11,700 downloads are fake. I'm not paying for this, which 937 01:03:11,700 --> 01:03:13,740 Adam Curry: is this, which is the stuff that Todd already 938 01:03:13,740 --> 01:03:16,590 does. He already knows this. Right. 939 01:03:16,620 --> 01:03:19,380 Dave Jones: But then, but if you're but if it's a direct 940 01:03:19,380 --> 01:03:22,050 transaction, then you can't 941 01:03:22,290 --> 01:03:25,860 Adam Curry: get that back. Okay. Well, let's take let's take that 942 01:03:25,860 --> 01:03:31,710 part out. Okay, whatever the incentive is, we have a system 943 01:03:31,710 --> 01:03:36,240 that nobody has, we have a minute by minute payment system 944 01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:41,700 that can send this information completely anonymous. You know, 945 01:03:41,730 --> 01:03:45,870 don't send something back right away, you know, stored up 946 01:03:45,870 --> 01:03:49,020 whatever. Yeah, I mean, there's a million ways to do the incent 947 01:03:49,050 --> 01:03:52,380 incentivized maybe you don't have to do that. Click this on 948 01:03:52,980 --> 01:03:56,010 me oh, by the way, you know, you get it you get a free podcast 949 01:03:56,010 --> 01:03:58,020 wallet, which you can do something with I mean, there's, 950 01:03:58,230 --> 01:04:01,410 there's a lot of different with, maybe I should just retract the 951 01:04:01,410 --> 01:04:09,720 incentive. Right now. There are 15 apps 15, maybe 15 apps that 952 01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:15,480 have play statistics by minute that no one is even thinking 953 01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:22,470 about as being useful for advertising. Statistical uses. 954 01:04:24,270 --> 01:04:27,750 Dave Jones: Okay, so the setting aside the incentive thing for a 955 01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:32,880 second the other thing that's that popped out was so I'm full 956 01:04:32,910 --> 01:04:36,000 I'm putting on my full cynic hat here. You're trying to play you 957 01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,340 Adam Curry: have to you have to and 958 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,230 Dave Jones: in the cynic in me says, do the advertisers 959 01:04:43,230 --> 01:04:46,470 themselves even want accurate numbers? Ah, well, 960 01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:51,030 Adam Curry: this popped up for me too. Nobody may actually want 961 01:04:51,030 --> 01:04:53,670 to have these numbers which would be which would be handy 962 01:04:53,670 --> 01:04:58,050 too, because then everything falls apart. And the only real 963 01:04:58,050 --> 01:05:00,960 way to measure stuff is direct response. was like cold bond 964 01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:05,220 genome. I mean, that's basically the ultimate. But right now, 965 01:05:05,250 --> 01:05:09,210 Dave Jones: if you're an ad buyer for Nike, and you buy 966 01:05:09,810 --> 01:05:15,510 that, and you say, Okay, I'm going to spend $700,000, across 967 01:05:15,510 --> 01:05:22,710 these audio, mediums, and I'm going to get to 250,002, that is 968 01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:26,670 going to be in the pot in podcasts. And look at all these 969 01:05:26,670 --> 01:05:33,150 downloads, we got it for 250,000, or for $200,000, we 970 01:05:33,150 --> 01:05:37,170 got, you know, we get 2 million downloads, like if, if that 971 01:05:37,170 --> 01:05:43,650 actually translates into 300,000, then you as the ad 972 01:05:43,650 --> 01:05:46,740 buyer may not want your boss to see the accurate number, you may 973 01:05:46,740 --> 01:05:49,830 want to, you may want the inflated number. Bottom 974 01:05:49,829 --> 01:05:52,319 Adam Curry: line, you're absolutely right, people may not 975 01:05:52,319 --> 01:05:56,969 want to actually know. But what I find interesting, and maybe 976 01:05:56,969 --> 01:06:01,559 this is something for Spurlock to do, what I find interesting 977 01:06:01,739 --> 01:06:06,569 is that I don't need an agency or anybody else or a podcast 978 01:06:06,569 --> 01:06:10,439 host to tell me the listening behavior of my audience, I can 979 01:06:10,439 --> 01:06:14,609 look at it myself. The I can talk directly to an agency or an 980 01:06:14,609 --> 01:06:19,229 ad buyer and say, well, of my downloads on Obama unique 981 01:06:19,259 --> 01:06:24,839 audience on op three, which is okay, no agenda 900,000 unique 982 01:06:24,839 --> 01:06:27,299 per month, whatever it means, I don't know what it means. But 983 01:06:27,299 --> 01:06:32,579 it's a number. And I can say of that audience, I have 3%, it may 984 01:06:32,579 --> 01:06:40,439 be higher. I have 3% that stream me SATs every single minute. So 985 01:06:40,439 --> 01:06:44,729 I can say I have a reasonable expectation that this is the 986 01:06:44,729 --> 01:06:51,269 behavior of the other 97%. The higher that number, the better 987 01:06:51,269 --> 01:06:56,219 it is, of course. I mean, this is very powerful stuff that no 988 01:06:56,219 --> 01:06:59,129 one's thinking of. And they're all running around doing 989 01:06:59,219 --> 01:07:03,539 formulas and beating each other over the head and back rooms at 990 01:07:03,749 --> 01:07:07,319 at NAB to come up with some formula that ultimately only 991 01:07:07,319 --> 01:07:10,409 measures one minute of download every two hours. 992 01:07:11,699 --> 01:07:15,869 Dave Jones: Yeah. Does it feel like nuts? I think you're on to 993 01:07:15,869 --> 01:07:21,539 Sunday. I mean, it may there's something there. It's, there's a 994 01:07:21,539 --> 01:07:25,529 way to there's get, you know, there's a way to harness this 995 01:07:25,529 --> 01:07:29,909 is. Okay, so back to basics for a second. I mean, what you're 996 01:07:29,909 --> 01:07:37,889 talking about is, is lightning as a as a perfectly anonymized 997 01:07:37,919 --> 01:07:44,129 way to see what's happening with your show? Yes. And 998 01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,380 Adam Curry: listening minutes. Let's put it that way how far 999 01:07:46,380 --> 01:07:49,560 someone listens in. Okay. But let's forget everything I said 1000 01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,740 before, was probably a better is probably a bad way to start it 1001 01:07:52,740 --> 01:08:00,480 off. How about this? If I send a split to OP three? I want open 1002 01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:05,280 by the way. The apps not doing anything creepy? No, what no app 1003 01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:10,440 wants to do creepy tracking? No, no one wants to be creepy. But 1004 01:08:10,620 --> 01:08:13,440 But I have my numbers and whether I'm looking at download 1005 01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,560 statistics. And oh, I have five people in Lithuania. I've 1006 01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:20,190 technically am creepily trying to figure out where people are 1007 01:08:20,190 --> 01:08:23,160 coming from and how many downloads I'm getting, etc. So 1008 01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,850 it's not like this is out of the ordinary. Now I have one extra 1009 01:08:26,850 --> 01:08:31,740 piece of data. If I were to give op three a split, I would I 1010 01:08:31,740 --> 01:08:35,970 would personally love to have that tape pulled up into the 1011 01:08:35,970 --> 01:08:40,980 stats. So I can get based upon pure averages. I mean, it's it's 1012 01:08:40,980 --> 01:08:45,270 just it's numbers. It's averages of how many? What percentage of 1013 01:08:45,270 --> 01:08:50,760 that 900,000 On no agenda is streaming SATs per minute. You 1014 01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,870 know, wrap that up and tell me Well, it seems like you probably 1015 01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:59,610 have this many minutes listen to of each podcast. And this is 1016 01:08:59,610 --> 01:09:03,120 your average drop off. And here's kind of what it is after 1017 01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:06,960 five minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, etc. This is 1018 01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:12,570 valuable data. All I'm saying is that if you're doing value for 1019 01:09:12,570 --> 01:09:17,400 value, do value for value. But if you want to use the same 1020 01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:22,140 mechanism to get player stats, there's ways that that can be 1021 01:09:22,140 --> 01:09:25,170 packaged and manage and incentivize for everybody. Does 1022 01:09:25,170 --> 01:09:29,400 that make sense? Yeah, because it's, it's like the red tag 1023 01:09:29,550 --> 01:09:32,460 that, you know, that failed, like, oh, that players will send 1024 01:09:32,460 --> 01:09:35,700 back this little tag and every No, no one did that. But we have 1025 01:09:35,700 --> 01:09:41,160 15 apps, you know, and podcasters Hey, please use these 1026 01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,610 apps. You helped me with my advertisers this there's so many 1027 01:09:44,610 --> 01:09:49,170 things that podcasters aren't doing to promote their own 1028 01:09:49,170 --> 01:09:53,820 welfare. Right. This is a this is an it could be done with as I 1029 01:09:53,820 --> 01:09:56,460 said with just a value time split, you know, that fires it 1030 01:09:56,460 --> 01:10:00,000 off only when you listen to the ad. All these things can be 1031 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,740 Done. Give me a hey, you know, I mean, all I'm seeing is the 1032 01:10:04,740 --> 01:10:08,040 exact thing that Todd and Rob are bitching about that no one 1033 01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:13,710 has we have across 15 apps. And actually, the index has a whole 1034 01:10:13,710 --> 01:10:18,180 range, that we're not going to use that. But but that's the 1035 01:10:18,180 --> 01:10:21,570 idea you could have, you could have a separate entity that is 1036 01:10:21,570 --> 01:10:26,010 the nonprofit, these the podcasts, that nonprofit, who 1037 01:10:26,010 --> 01:10:29,880 gets a 1% of everything, and does compile that I mean, which 1038 01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,340 would be opt in is there's so many things that can be done. 1039 01:10:32,550 --> 01:10:38,490 The point is, the information is there, the mechanism is there. 1040 01:10:40,110 --> 01:10:43,200 So whereas if you have a podcast where you don't feel like doing 1041 01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:48,480 value for value, you can use the same mechanism. Without anyone 1042 01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:50,880 taking a penny out of their pocket, you can use the 1043 01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,000 mechanism to get the statistics that you want. 1044 01:10:55,800 --> 01:11:01,170 Dave Jones: Again, get I guess I just see this as the as 1045 01:11:01,230 --> 01:11:06,840 envisioned at the moment in my head. This seems very binary. 1046 01:11:07,890 --> 01:11:15,420 Like, like it's is either an all or nothing thing. You go in, 1047 01:11:15,450 --> 01:11:19,920 you're either you're either value for value at that point, 1048 01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,850 and then there's no way to get somebody to listen to the ads 1049 01:11:23,850 --> 01:11:26,160 without incentivizing. Oh, so you do you 1050 01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:28,590 Adam Curry: listen to the Linux unplugged? Do you listen to 1051 01:11:28,590 --> 01:11:31,230 Jupiter broadcasting? Do you screen them set? 1052 01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:32,130 Unknown: Yes. 1053 01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,790 Adam Curry: Do they have marketing? Yes. So that's not 1054 01:11:35,820 --> 01:11:36,870 true what you just said. 1055 01:11:37,410 --> 01:11:44,280 Dave Jones: But that is that is a function of so that is that's 1056 01:11:44,370 --> 01:11:49,440 if you turn on was like, Well, let me clarify the, you 1057 01:11:49,440 --> 01:11:52,980 mentioned sort of like enabling this thing as a feature. 1058 01:11:53,310 --> 01:11:55,920 Adam Curry: Just one way that as I said, this is just one way of 1059 01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:00,840 doing this. I mean, right now, if I were Jupiter broadcasting, 1060 01:12:00,870 --> 01:12:04,530 I would go to Linode. And I would say, Hey, here's the 1061 01:12:04,530 --> 01:12:08,880 percentage of people who are streaming SATs, and who were 1062 01:12:08,910 --> 01:12:11,370 doing that while listening to your ad. And I would say it's, 1063 01:12:11,370 --> 01:12:14,970 uh, you know, 0.1% of our audience, but this gives you an 1064 01:12:14,970 --> 01:12:20,370 idea. This, you can extrapolate that. And by the way, you don't 1065 01:12:20,370 --> 01:12:22,740 mind I know you don't because you love those guys. 1066 01:12:23,370 --> 01:12:26,370 Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. That's why Listen, yeah. To the ads and 1067 01:12:26,370 --> 01:12:28,650 stream sets through the air. Exactly, 1068 01:12:28,650 --> 01:12:31,410 Adam Curry: exactly. This is my point. It's the relationship 1069 01:12:31,410 --> 01:12:35,940 between the podcaster. And the audience that makes it work. Not 1070 01:12:35,940 --> 01:12:38,820 that not everything else sucks. So 1071 01:12:38,820 --> 01:12:42,030 Dave Jones: you're saying if the podcaster explains this, and 1072 01:12:42,030 --> 01:12:48,510 says, Look, if you're using a value for value app, here, the 1073 01:12:48,540 --> 01:12:53,730 the advertisers can tell if your Listen, which helps us. Of 1074 01:12:53,730 --> 01:12:58,440 course, okay, that's, of course, this is so much layout, I 1075 01:12:58,440 --> 01:13:00,510 appreciate that angle on it, because 1076 01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,020 Adam Curry: it's still value for value, the hope there's no way 1077 01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,420 our audience is not big enough, you're not boosting enough for 1078 01:13:06,420 --> 01:13:09,930 me to do this full time. We have Linode as a sponsor, we'd love 1079 01:13:09,930 --> 01:13:13,290 to tell them, you know that people are listening. If you 1080 01:13:13,290 --> 01:13:17,040 don't, if you don't boost us 10,000 SATs turn on five sets of 1081 01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:19,830 minutes, so we can track it and tell them and show them what 1082 01:13:19,830 --> 01:13:22,800 they're getting for their money. Its value for value. 1083 01:13:23,940 --> 01:13:27,120 Dave Jones: Yeah. appreciate the fact that that's like a 1084 01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,060 conversation in a relationship between the podcaster and the 1085 01:13:30,060 --> 01:13:33,510 audience. That's where I started this sort of technological 1086 01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:38,880 technical solution that trust, like, steal it to like, work its 1087 01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,250 way around that relationship. That's 1088 01:13:41,250 --> 01:13:43,830 Adam Curry: why That's why I started I said, What's ignored 1089 01:13:43,830 --> 01:13:46,590 in the whole podcasting industrial complex? is the 1090 01:13:46,590 --> 01:13:49,830 relationship between the podcaster and the audience. And 1091 01:13:49,830 --> 01:13:53,820 the podcasters. They forget that too. And then it just becomes 1092 01:13:53,820 --> 01:13:57,300 magic did yeah. Well, then it but then it becomes when we just 1093 01:13:57,300 --> 01:14:00,030 shove this crap in your face, I'm sorry. It's the only way we 1094 01:14:00,030 --> 01:14:03,000 can do it. Where you can actually turn it into an 1095 01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:08,130 extremely positive. And then as it goes along, I think that the 1096 01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:11,130 the Linux unplugged guys, they could say, you know, if you 1097 01:14:11,130 --> 01:14:15,240 don't want to hear the ad, and you want to boost us, or you 1098 01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:18,630 want to stream a higher amount of stat sets instead, here's a 1099 01:14:18,630 --> 01:14:22,050 toggle, and you want here the ad and you I mean, you can do it 1100 01:14:22,050 --> 01:14:26,670 that way. But it's always the relationship between the, the, 1101 01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:31,920 I'm going to use the word I hate a creator, and the audience that 1102 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:36,600 is forgotten. That's what's forgotten. And that's, that's 1103 01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:41,880 where they went wrong. And again, I want nothing more if I 1104 01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,100 if you really woke me up in the middle, if so, would you really 1105 01:14:44,100 --> 01:14:50,670 want I would want the podcast ecosystem to crush every other 1106 01:14:50,670 --> 01:14:55,110 distribution mechanism that is out there. Tall networks, every 1107 01:14:55,110 --> 01:14:59,730 single one of them, crush them make them irrelevant because 1108 01:14:59,730 --> 01:15:01,380 they are Our system is better. 1109 01:15:03,629 --> 01:15:09,899 Dave Jones: I agree. Yeah. And I think I think that is, you know, 1110 01:15:09,929 --> 01:15:12,329 everybody's doing their prediction shows and stuff like 1111 01:15:12,329 --> 01:15:19,229 that this week, or in last week. And this. There, there's this 1112 01:15:19,229 --> 01:15:24,719 weird dichotomy between some people are saying, well, you 1113 01:15:24,719 --> 01:15:27,089 know, think 2024 is not going to get a whole lot better than 1114 01:15:27,089 --> 01:15:31,559 2023. And then people on the ad side are like, well, you know, 1115 01:15:31,559 --> 01:15:38,399 everything's going up. And yeah, I think in order to get sort of 1116 01:15:38,399 --> 01:15:42,899 your put your ear to the to the train track, and hear what's 1117 01:15:43,139 --> 01:15:48,689 coming down the road. So I brought clips, 1118 01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:51,660 Adam Curry: can I add one thing before you go to the clips? 1119 01:15:52,170 --> 01:15:55,740 Yeah, I would love Linux unplugged, if they put a value 1120 01:15:55,740 --> 01:16:00,120 time split into their Linode read, I will boost your 1121 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:03,930 advertiser and tell them I liked their product. Or if I don't 1122 01:16:03,930 --> 01:16:08,550 like their product, I will boost and said, I heard this ad. I'm 1123 01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:11,430 interested, or I liked it, or I liked the way it was done. Or I 1124 01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:14,790 like your product. I'd like your service. I'm already I'm already 1125 01:16:14,820 --> 01:16:19,170 a user or man, you know, whatever it is, I will give 1126 01:16:19,170 --> 01:16:20,820 feedback to your advertiser. 1127 01:16:22,290 --> 01:16:25,290 Dave Jones: One thing we haven't seen on that front is, like you 1128 01:16:25,290 --> 01:16:28,020 said, boosting directly to the advertiser basically a value 1129 01:16:28,260 --> 01:16:29,760 split for the ad. Yes, 1130 01:16:29,790 --> 01:16:34,890 Adam Curry: yes. Exactly. Put it to a devalue time split in, give 1131 01:16:34,890 --> 01:16:38,550 the advertiser A wallet, tell you tell your audience what 1132 01:16:38,550 --> 01:16:41,160 you're doing. Hey, if you if you're a podcast, who put it 1133 01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:45,150 right now? boost the ad, send them a message can be one 1134 01:16:45,150 --> 01:16:47,610 Satoshi I don't care. Send them a message. 1135 01:16:47,910 --> 01:16:49,980 Dave Jones: That would be interesting. If you said, if you 1136 01:16:49,980 --> 01:16:56,040 say okay, I'm going to I'm going to prove to you my numbers. In 1137 01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:59,520 this way, I'm going to set up a context account for you 1138 01:16:59,550 --> 01:17:03,480 beautiful, exactly, we're gonna see this. Yeah. And 1139 01:17:03,480 --> 01:17:05,250 Adam Curry: you know what advertising equals negative 1140 01:17:05,250 --> 01:17:08,490 feedback. They, they, they appreciate that, too. That's 1141 01:17:08,490 --> 01:17:12,120 free. And you're just save yourself $50,000 on a marketing 1142 01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:15,030 firm that does that does polling. And 1143 01:17:15,030 --> 01:17:19,770 Dave Jones: at the end of the, at the end of the campaign, then 1144 01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:25,200 you just pay you just if you just pay me back? The the 1145 01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:29,790 amount, like just add that back in as a bonus. What like the 1146 01:17:29,790 --> 01:17:32,910 agreed amount, and then you add in whatever, whatever sets you 1147 01:17:32,910 --> 01:17:35,850 receive, you give me a cut of that back? What and that's 1148 01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:36,600 whatever it 1149 01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:38,520 Adam Curry: is, you send it back to the people who sent you the 1150 01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:39,180 message, 1151 01:17:39,540 --> 01:17:41,760 Dave Jones: we split it or whatever. There's a million ways 1152 01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,380 to do it. Yeah. That's 1153 01:17:43,380 --> 01:17:46,530 Adam Curry: all I wanted to present is that I am not I 1154 01:17:46,530 --> 01:17:51,510 believe that advertising is, is censorship, because you can't 1155 01:17:51,900 --> 01:17:56,640 talk about a competing product that That by itself is going to 1156 01:17:56,640 --> 01:18:01,800 be censorship. I believe it's dangerous, in many cases, 1157 01:18:01,830 --> 01:18:06,450 because you, you can get demonetized. But I want to be 1158 01:18:06,450 --> 01:18:10,290 clear, I'm not anti marketing, the world exists on marketing. 1159 01:18:10,290 --> 01:18:14,100 We can't live without product being marketed to us. But we 1160 01:18:14,100 --> 01:18:19,560 can, this is what we talked about in 1989, we are saying oh, 1161 01:18:19,590 --> 01:18:23,340 it's going to change is going to change, or it'll be updated and 1162 01:18:23,340 --> 01:18:28,020 you'll pay me for my time. No one's done it. We have it we 1163 01:18:28,020 --> 01:18:31,740 have all the pieces in place to do that. And I just wanted to 1164 01:18:31,740 --> 01:18:36,180 put that out there that people can think of it as a possible 1165 01:18:36,180 --> 01:18:39,810 way and the Jupiter broadcasting guys, I would love to see them 1166 01:18:39,810 --> 01:18:43,170 experiment with this. The I think their audience is perfect 1167 01:18:43,170 --> 01:18:47,610 for it. I'll participate you'll participate. I streamed SATs I 1168 01:18:47,610 --> 01:18:51,180 boost them. I listened to the Linode it's interesting to me. 1169 01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,450 It's something I want to hear if I didn't want to hear it. I'd 1170 01:18:54,450 --> 01:18:57,960 like to I'd like to say hey, I hate this ad. Can I turn it off? 1171 01:18:58,380 --> 01:19:02,160 Whatever. Now makes it a level you can turn it off if you boost 1172 01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,430 the 1000s that there's all kinds of it's programmable money 1173 01:19:05,430 --> 01:19:09,300 people think a little bit further than what it is. 1174 01:19:10,530 --> 01:19:12,840 Dave Jones: Yeah, I think I think we haven't seen the sort 1175 01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:18,000 of experimentation now with this stuff where you could sit down 1176 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,750 for an afternoon and think of four or five different ways you 1177 01:19:21,750 --> 01:19:25,620 could do some crazy stuff with with this when it when it comes 1178 01:19:25,620 --> 01:19:30,210 to like splits that activates services. Like with friends I 1179 01:19:30,210 --> 01:19:35,730 mean, just you get spit ball or something like this like you you 1180 01:19:35,730 --> 01:19:42,120 donate you hit a certain threshold of you hit a certain 1181 01:19:43,050 --> 01:19:46,200 you know you hit a certain threshold of ads and screaming 1182 01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:50,310 stats. I love this thinking for last episode that means next 1183 01:19:50,310 --> 01:19:53,430 episode you don't get you don't hear any ads. Yeah, they just 1184 01:19:53,460 --> 01:19:56,280 stuff like, you know, like all kinds of crazy stuff that you 1185 01:19:56,280 --> 01:20:00,390 could do. Yeah, I think we have a really we Here's haven't 1186 01:20:00,390 --> 01:20:04,200 really seen anybody go, go, go kind of nutty, and start doing 1187 01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:05,820 that stuff. And 1188 01:20:06,270 --> 01:20:08,820 Adam Curry: just to finish, I really feel there's something 1189 01:20:08,820 --> 01:20:11,940 here this hybrid, it's not creepy, because we're already 1190 01:20:11,940 --> 01:20:15,330 doing it. It's not creepy, because I'm already using it. 1191 01:20:15,780 --> 01:20:20,310 It's not creepy, because I can't attribute you as a person to the 1192 01:20:20,310 --> 01:20:23,940 contacts graph that I'm viewing. I mean, if I go into the data 1193 01:20:23,940 --> 01:20:27,840 individually, I guess I could, and you know, I can know, an 1194 01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,690 alias. But that's really all I know. I can't necessarily yeah, 1195 01:20:30,690 --> 01:20:33,360 Dave Jones: that's, that's self that's opt in, though, I mean, 1196 01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:37,080 because you've completely you have to get to it. I mean, if I 1197 01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:43,140 get if I just say that, if I put in my, in my user name, and the 1198 01:20:43,140 --> 01:20:49,350 T O V. Anonymous, is you're not getting any information about me 1199 01:20:49,380 --> 01:20:55,530 at all. There's nothing you can't, you can't extract 1200 01:20:55,530 --> 01:20:59,070 anything out of that payment that that identifies me, you 1201 01:20:59,070 --> 01:21:04,260 just can't know. So there's my if I choose to put Dave Jones in 1202 01:21:04,260 --> 01:21:08,340 the username field of the TLV I'm choosing to let you know 1203 01:21:08,340 --> 01:21:12,870 that that's me. That's not you can't get it any other way 1204 01:21:12,870 --> 01:21:16,740 without me allowing it to happen. And so in like the and 1205 01:21:16,740 --> 01:21:20,730 then and then that's all you get. So if some if four other 1206 01:21:20,730 --> 01:21:22,890 people also say their name is Dave Jones, 1207 01:21:23,970 --> 01:21:25,500 Adam Curry: then you have for Dave Jones. 1208 01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:28,770 Dave Jones: Name I can't tell which one's me and which one's 1209 01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:32,010 somebody else. It's just it is perfectly anonymous 1210 01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:37,140 Adam Curry: now and I believe much more in host read ads than 1211 01:21:37,140 --> 01:21:42,180 anything else. Because it's like bridesmaid magazine. I don't 1212 01:21:42,180 --> 01:21:46,020 think you should be creating a podcast just to advertise bridal 1213 01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:56,010 services and products. Button. Linux unplugged is makes so much 1214 01:21:56,010 --> 01:21:59,940 sense for I'm interested in the products they that advertised 1215 01:21:59,940 --> 01:22:03,450 there. And the either it's a canned or whatever, but it's not 1216 01:22:03,450 --> 01:22:07,470 it's not an inserted ad that goes you know, Toyota. I'm not 1217 01:22:07,470 --> 01:22:10,440 interested, that's not going to interest me. And I can't help 1218 01:22:10,440 --> 01:22:13,830 that. I can't even think that far ahead. Let's put it that 1219 01:22:13,830 --> 01:22:19,410 way. But to hear people struggling with something that 1220 01:22:19,410 --> 01:22:23,460 already exists, I want to bridge I want to help bridge that gap. 1221 01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:29,700 Because it's there. I am anti tracking, I am pro privacy. Anti 1222 01:22:29,700 --> 01:22:36,270 creepy. But if we just remember that the podcasts are has an 1223 01:22:36,300 --> 01:22:41,610 intimate relationship with the audience. You can figure out per 1224 01:22:41,610 --> 01:22:47,340 audience what is possible. You just can. It's not a problem. 1225 01:22:48,060 --> 01:22:51,780 But that is what is overlooked. And it's and it's overlooked in 1226 01:22:52,440 --> 01:22:57,210 reports and graphs and charts and Rancors and leaderboards. 1227 01:22:57,210 --> 01:23:02,910 It's all insulting because you you bring people and podcasters 1228 01:23:02,910 --> 01:23:08,130 down to a frickin percentage. Whereas here is something that 1229 01:23:08,130 --> 01:23:12,690 is human ebb you can work with both parties to make something 1230 01:23:12,900 --> 01:23:15,750 do I expect the podcast industrial complex to take this 1231 01:23:15,750 --> 01:23:19,140 and run with it? No. But at least I said as possible. And 1232 01:23:19,140 --> 01:23:20,490 now let's go back to value for value. 1233 01:23:21,330 --> 01:23:26,700 Dave Jones: But the reason I the reason I headed it I have veered 1234 01:23:26,700 --> 01:23:31,440 into clips. Because I think this No no. Because this this is 1235 01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:37,020 actually pretty. It's actually pretty apropos mainly so I was 1236 01:23:37,020 --> 01:23:42,120 listening to this is wrong roundabout way of the way of how 1237 01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:46,620 I got to this podcast. This there's this you know, I told 1238 01:23:46,620 --> 01:23:51,570 you I've I've gone down the Gilmore Girls train. Now and now 1239 01:23:51,570 --> 01:23:55,740 I'm listening to the Gilmore Girls podcast. But but it's this 1240 01:23:55,800 --> 01:24:01,290 specific one by by the guy that played Luke on the show. And I 1241 01:24:01,290 --> 01:24:05,490 don't remember how I think I think I found when I was 1242 01:24:05,490 --> 01:24:10,620 originally searching for it, uh, found a another one called 1243 01:24:10,620 --> 01:24:18,150 Gilmore Guys. Hey, no witch. And so this is like, this was this 1244 01:24:18,150 --> 01:24:20,760 was by nobody related to the show. I mean, this is just like 1245 01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:23,880 two days. Scott Patterson you're talking about? Yes, Scott 1246 01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:26,340 Patterson does the I am all in podcast, which is the one I 1247 01:24:26,340 --> 01:24:31,110 subscribe to. But this other show was by people who are not 1248 01:24:31,260 --> 01:24:34,650 who were not actors on the show. Just it's like Egina just fans. 1249 01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:40,890 And I remember seeing that show. So I went back 1250 01:24:43,170 --> 01:24:47,790 Adam Curry: I been Pfeiffer I binge Gilmore Girls are in 1251 01:24:47,790 --> 01:24:51,240 COVID. So it's you know what a real man admits that. He watched 1252 01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:52,140 Gilmore Girls. 1253 01:24:53,850 --> 01:24:59,040 Dave Jones: I have no shame. None. There's no shame. But so 1254 01:24:59,820 --> 01:25:04,470 it's The this I ended up listening to this other podcast, 1255 01:25:04,950 --> 01:25:09,390 because now I'm just you know, I'm just curious at what, three 1256 01:25:09,390 --> 01:25:12,480 minutes in and I'm out. I'm like that cannot tolerate this at 1257 01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:17,430 all. It's so it's just not my for No, I'm not going to 1258 01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:21,870 criticize them but it is just absolutely not my thing. I can't 1259 01:25:21,900 --> 01:25:27,300 I can't handle it. So I was out on that but somehow I ended up 1260 01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:31,830 through the magic of of the index or something with this 1261 01:25:31,860 --> 01:25:35,910 other show by one of the hosts of that show. Is this this is a 1262 01:25:35,910 --> 01:25:43,350 show called good Christian fun. Yeah. Funny name for show. So 1263 01:25:43,350 --> 01:25:46,680 I'm like, Oh, I gotta I gotta it was supposed to be like a, a 1264 01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:50,220 show about Christian pop culture. And I'm like, oh, 1265 01:25:50,220 --> 01:25:53,460 that's that sounds like entertaining. So listen to it. 1266 01:25:53,940 --> 01:25:59,790 And I was actually sort of the my entry point to this show was 1267 01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:04,110 an episode. This was the most recent episode, which ended up 1268 01:26:04,110 --> 01:26:10,290 being a bad entry point for me. Because they're, they start 1269 01:26:10,290 --> 01:26:13,980 talking about at the very beginning, how their, their 1270 01:26:13,980 --> 01:26:17,850 podcast network called ahead. GM is the name of this podcast 1271 01:26:17,850 --> 01:26:23,670 network. Their Podcast Network is now trying a new strategy. 1272 01:26:25,020 --> 01:26:29,940 Going going forward on how to figure out new shows. 1273 01:26:31,740 --> 01:26:34,380 Adam Curry: And what do you mean figure out new shows? What do 1274 01:26:34,380 --> 01:26:37,050 you mean, what new shows to produce? Yeah, 1275 01:26:37,380 --> 01:26:40,050 Dave Jones: yeah. So they like so what do we you know, this is 1276 01:26:40,050 --> 01:26:44,550 the new this is the new world we live in where? Where podcasting 1277 01:26:44,580 --> 01:26:48,810 isn't, is not a is not the Fairhead you know, fair haired 1278 01:26:48,930 --> 01:26:51,840 Adam Curry: child knows the ugly, ugly. redheaded stepchild 1279 01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:54,180 was what it is. All right. Sorry. redheads. 1280 01:26:55,290 --> 01:27:00,240 Dave Jones: Is the soulless redheads. Yes. And this so they 1281 01:27:00,270 --> 01:27:03,570 so they have a new strategy, which he will describe. 1282 01:27:04,650 --> 01:27:08,490 Unknown: This week, we have a special treat for our listeners. 1283 01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:13,320 Oh, right. Yes, this this is kind of crazy. But it's huge. 1284 01:27:13,470 --> 01:27:18,240 It's an honor. And the head game network is a big family. In 1285 01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:21,750 light of that they've launched this new pilot program that 1286 01:27:21,750 --> 01:27:25,530 they're they're trying out. And it's really weird how they're 1287 01:27:25,530 --> 01:27:29,400 rolling it out and executing it. But when we heard the talent 1288 01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:33,630 involved, we thought, yeah, let's participate. Yeah, let's 1289 01:27:33,630 --> 01:27:36,570 give this agreement I had no choice. So what they're doing 1290 01:27:36,570 --> 01:27:39,720 now is they're they're developing, you know, about a 1291 01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:43,620 dozen or so pilots. And what they're doing is instead of 1292 01:27:43,620 --> 01:27:47,430 creating a feed for the show's themselves, they're gonna put 1293 01:27:47,430 --> 01:27:50,970 them on the feeds of all the other podcasts on had gone, you 1294 01:27:50,970 --> 01:27:54,870 know, when it makes sense. And it may it certainly made sense. 1295 01:27:54,900 --> 01:28:00,390 In this case, they're actually developing a podcast with two 1296 01:28:00,390 --> 01:28:04,080 people very close to our heart, Michael W. Smith and Ami MF 1297 01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:10,380 grant. They're finally doing their to friends podcast. So 1298 01:28:10,620 --> 01:28:14,010 what they want to do had gum you know, times being what they are 1299 01:28:14,010 --> 01:28:16,410 in the pockets industry. They don't want to commit to the 1300 01:28:16,410 --> 01:28:22,290 whole 52 episode order for a year. So what they're gonna do 1301 01:28:22,290 --> 01:28:25,230 is they're gonna put out the pilot episode of all these new 1302 01:28:25,230 --> 01:28:25,680 shows. 1303 01:28:26,670 --> 01:28:28,800 Adam Curry: I'm not sure I understood exactly what they're 1304 01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:29,310 doing. 1305 01:28:30,780 --> 01:28:34,200 Dave Jones: Okay, so that's yeah, it's a little hard to 1306 01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:37,260 follow but what this what they're doing his feed drops, 1307 01:28:37,290 --> 01:28:39,510 Adam Curry: right. So they're putting the episode in every 1308 01:28:39,510 --> 01:28:42,180 single feed on their network. So 1309 01:28:42,210 --> 01:28:44,610 Dave Jones: yes, selective feed, so they're gonna do he was 1310 01:28:44,610 --> 01:28:48,780 saying he was saying that he clarifies it and a little, 1311 01:28:49,050 --> 01:28:52,410 clarifies a little bit more in in the next clip, but what 1312 01:28:52,410 --> 01:28:56,550 they're essentially doing is they're, instead of doing any 1313 01:28:56,550 --> 01:29:03,780 commitments, they're going to do like one pilot episode, and then 1314 01:29:03,780 --> 01:29:08,790 throw that into a whole bunch of already highly subscribed feeds 1315 01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:14,490 and see whether or not they get good feedback. And if they do 1316 01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:15,990 then they might order more 1317 01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:20,460 Adam Curry: webisodes. Wow, that sounds like a bad idea to me. 1318 01:29:21,330 --> 01:29:21,570 This 1319 01:29:21,570 --> 01:29:24,090 Dave Jones: sounds like a terrible idea. I mean, feed 1320 01:29:24,090 --> 01:29:29,220 drops are nothing new. But I can tell you they're almost 1321 01:29:29,220 --> 01:29:30,660 universally hated it 1322 01:29:30,690 --> 01:29:33,090 Adam Curry: From experience I can tell you from way back 1323 01:29:33,090 --> 01:29:36,540 people don't like it. Like we'll get that out of my feed. I'll 1324 01:29:36,540 --> 01:29:40,320 subscribe to the feed myself Hey. And 1325 01:29:40,650 --> 01:29:43,140 Dave Jones: like this is a perfect example because I was 1326 01:29:43,140 --> 01:29:47,790 willing to give this show a shot I want I tuned in to hear this 1327 01:29:47,820 --> 01:29:53,700 specific show. And I did not get this show because this show this 1328 01:29:53,700 --> 01:29:57,600 whole intro that I'm that I'm clipping here. This was all lead 1329 01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,780 into the feed drop that there were about two played this other 1330 01:30:00,780 --> 01:30:05,310 episode. So I subscribed to a show that I now did not get. 1331 01:30:05,700 --> 01:30:10,950 What I got was some new pilot episode for a potentially new 1332 01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:15,450 show from with Michael W. Smith and Amy Grant. Amy Grant, a 1333 01:30:15,450 --> 01:30:18,210 singer Amy Grant singer and Michael W. Smith, a Christian 1334 01:30:18,210 --> 01:30:22,950 singer. Yeah. Oh, those two them talking to each other. I'm like, 1335 01:30:23,010 --> 01:30:26,220 I'm already annoyed before I even hear you know what I mean? 1336 01:30:26,250 --> 01:30:30,120 Yeah, of course, it ended up being a decent show. I'm already 1337 01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:34,140 you're hitting me. I'm annoyed from the beginning. And so like 1338 01:30:34,170 --> 01:30:39,300 the net in the next clip, they talk about this overall 1339 01:30:39,300 --> 01:30:44,160 strategy. And it's basically it's the same strategy as it was 1340 01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:48,810 the last five years. But of celebrities, but this time 1341 01:30:48,810 --> 01:30:50,370 without the commitment. Michael 1342 01:30:50,370 --> 01:30:55,260 Unknown: W. Smith and Amy Grant are doing one. You know, there's 1343 01:30:55,260 --> 01:30:58,410 other people doing podcasts pilots that I'm forgetting right 1344 01:30:58,410 --> 01:31:03,720 now. I think I think there's, there's like scrubs rewatch 1345 01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:07,800 podcasts that they're doing, but it's just the Todd and he's 1346 01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:11,130 Sarah choc. Yeah. And it's kind of competing with fake doctors, 1347 01:31:11,130 --> 01:31:15,510 real friends. That's one of them. There's one Kim controls 1348 01:31:15,510 --> 01:31:18,150 doing where she just washes Sex in the City. And she talks about 1349 01:31:18,150 --> 01:31:19,560 how much she hates everything. 1350 01:31:20,010 --> 01:31:21,180 Okay, negative show. 1351 01:31:21,210 --> 01:31:24,870 Yeah. So it's a lot of celebrity stuff that that's been cooked up 1352 01:31:24,870 --> 01:31:25,500 ahead and GM. 1353 01:31:26,850 --> 01:31:30,720 Adam Curry: Oh, man, this is a prime example of how you cannot 1354 01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:33,330 monetize the network. So 1355 01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:40,260 Dave Jones: this is, you know, I don't, I'm not I'm not being 1356 01:31:40,260 --> 01:31:46,020 super negative on. As far as like, I'm not saying this. I'm 1357 01:31:46,020 --> 01:31:49,080 not gonna criticize anybody on this. But what I'm just it was 1358 01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:54,150 interesting from the standpoint of this, it's sort of a 1359 01:31:54,150 --> 01:31:58,290 confirmation that there's really nothing new here. Like, there's 1360 01:31:59,250 --> 01:32:04,350 the podcast industrial complex. So the you know, they're out of 1361 01:32:04,350 --> 01:32:07,950 ideas. They really are there rehashing. Now, now they're 1362 01:32:07,950 --> 01:32:14,100 rehashing other, this is a real, this is another podcast with 1363 01:32:14,100 --> 01:32:17,670 somebody rewatching, a television show and discussing 1364 01:32:17,670 --> 01:32:20,790 the episodes that's going head to head with an already popular 1365 01:32:20,790 --> 01:32:24,090 show of this doing the exact same thing with the exact same 1366 01:32:24,090 --> 01:32:31,680 show. And they're so unsure about the success of the shows 1367 01:32:32,430 --> 01:32:36,600 that they, they won't even commit to more than one episode. 1368 01:32:36,630 --> 01:32:38,940 And they're going to feed drop it to get the numbers up. I 1369 01:32:38,940 --> 01:32:44,610 mean, like, Oh, my God, this is just not. What bothers me here 1370 01:32:44,610 --> 01:32:49,680 is that this is not good. No, this is really not a good. This 1371 01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,420 is what I'm saying. If you put your ear down to the train 1372 01:32:51,420 --> 01:32:56,670 tracks on this thing. I see hard times ahead. I mean, it can it 1373 01:32:56,670 --> 01:33:00,510 kind of in him, and then you so you have a feed drop already. 1374 01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:05,580 Where this is, you're already annoyed that you're not going to 1375 01:33:05,580 --> 01:33:11,730 hear the show you were expecting to hear. And then I detect in 1376 01:33:11,730 --> 01:33:16,440 this last clip, I detected that they're sort of embarrassed by 1377 01:33:16,440 --> 01:33:19,260 the quality of the episode they're about, they're about to 1378 01:33:19,260 --> 01:33:22,830 feed drop, because they are not selling it at all, 1379 01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:25,260 Unknown: in what you're gonna hear in this pilot episode, 1380 01:33:25,590 --> 01:33:28,770 which is not too long, because you know, they're just testing 1381 01:33:28,770 --> 01:33:32,070 the waters and filling things out. And and you can tell like, 1382 01:33:32,070 --> 01:33:33,960 they've been friends for a long time, but they're maybe they 1383 01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:36,900 don't have the stamina. Yeah, their chemistry is kind of a 1384 01:33:36,900 --> 01:33:39,570 little wonky as they kind of figure out what they're doing, 1385 01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:44,640 you might hear. So, and for me, it was interesting listening to 1386 01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:48,000 Amy, because she would just kind of like, you could tell at some 1387 01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:50,250 point she her attention wandered. And she would kind of 1388 01:33:50,250 --> 01:33:53,280 check her phone a little bit while somebody was talking about 1389 01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:56,400 something that was really important to them. But you'll 1390 01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:59,160 listen for yourself. I don't want to cloud. Yeah, 1391 01:33:59,580 --> 01:34:04,920 Adam Curry: this reminds me so much of pod show. When because 1392 01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:09,090 we tried to run it like a traditional network. This is 1393 01:34:09,090 --> 01:34:11,160 where I came up with the whole term. You can't monetize the 1394 01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:16,860 network. We tried to do it with promo codes. And what wound up 1395 01:34:16,860 --> 01:34:21,870 happening is everybody had their code and they were making good 1396 01:34:21,870 --> 01:34:24,810 money because they were basically becoming SEO experts 1397 01:34:24,810 --> 01:34:27,390 with their codes. People weren't getting the codes from the 1398 01:34:27,390 --> 01:34:30,930 shows. Now they were getting them by going to google 1399 01:34:31,020 --> 01:34:33,960 someone's whoa, I'm gonna I'm at checkout here I need to code 1400 01:34:34,770 --> 01:34:39,420 right now. I'm gonna I'm gonna buy some SEO whatever. That was 1401 01:34:39,420 --> 01:34:43,860 never an advertiser. I'm gonna buy something. And I need to 1402 01:34:43,860 --> 01:34:47,310 code so you you go to Google, you search the code, whoever's 1403 01:34:47,310 --> 01:34:51,090 code pops up at the top they got the credit it was basically a 1404 01:34:51,090 --> 01:34:59,970 scam. And, and it's just it doesn't. It doesn't work well. 1405 01:35:01,230 --> 01:35:04,380 Dave Jones: And then this is podcast winter. This is the 1406 01:35:04,920 --> 01:35:06,210 beginning of the podcast winter. 1407 01:35:06,210 --> 01:35:11,880 Adam Curry: Yes, it is the podcast winter. It is its direct 1408 01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:15,030 response is very difficult in this in this manner because you 1409 01:35:15,690 --> 01:35:19,830 just as I said, I've been, I've seen it over and over and over 1410 01:35:19,830 --> 01:35:26,610 again. Where now the the code is in a YouTube does it to me the 1411 01:35:26,610 --> 01:35:30,360 code is in the YouTube description. It's they they 1412 01:35:30,390 --> 01:35:33,780 people become SEO experts at codes. That's real. It's not 1413 01:35:33,780 --> 01:35:39,060 really coming from the podcast. Whereas I think Linode probably 1414 01:35:39,540 --> 01:35:44,580 Jupiter probably use codes. But I'm listening to it because I'm 1415 01:35:44,580 --> 01:35:47,310 interested in how they sell it. I'm interested in what they're 1416 01:35:47,310 --> 01:35:50,310 selling, there's a different message often there's like, no 1417 01:35:50,310 --> 01:35:52,830 blue node has this we have something melts. And and I 1418 01:35:52,830 --> 01:35:55,500 always chuckle when they say it's now a part of aka Miam. 1419 01:35:55,500 --> 01:35:57,570 Like, yeah. 1420 01:36:00,420 --> 01:36:04,170 Dave Jones: I know, people will say that, you know, oh, feed 1421 01:36:04,170 --> 01:36:08,280 drops had been done for I get that that's not that's not the 1422 01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:12,510 point. Understand feed drops have always been been happening. 1423 01:36:13,440 --> 01:36:20,130 The thing that startles me a little bit, is that what this is 1424 01:36:20,130 --> 01:36:27,720 this thing here is a large net podcast network that has is 1425 01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:34,230 saying our new strategy is basically to do is to only do 1426 01:36:34,260 --> 01:36:38,670 one pilot episode, and then feed drop it everywhere, that that 1427 01:36:38,670 --> 01:36:43,320 seems to be the policy going forward. Because that, that it 1428 01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:49,230 tells me that the money is so tight, that they really is no 1429 01:36:49,230 --> 01:36:54,450 margin for error. The there's certain, there's certain there's 1430 01:36:54,450 --> 01:36:59,190 certain certain things that that are that people do learn, excuse 1431 01:36:59,190 --> 01:37:04,200 me, that companies do that are sort of standard and you'll see 1432 01:37:04,200 --> 01:37:08,790 them happen every now and then. Things you know, certain types 1433 01:37:08,790 --> 01:37:11,220 of you know, like, I mean, certain types of sales loss 1434 01:37:11,220 --> 01:37:14,160 leaders these things, I mean, these are just normal part of 1435 01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:17,130 doing business you do that. But then there's a different than 1436 01:37:17,160 --> 01:37:22,320 then something will happen where you see a company go all in and 1437 01:37:22,320 --> 01:37:26,940 just be in like completely lost leader half of their, you know, 1438 01:37:27,450 --> 01:37:29,400 Adam Curry: is desperation the next step for them as they're 1439 01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:31,680 going to be doing? They're gonna be doing podcasts about the 1440 01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:35,100 products. That's always the next step. Before you know it, 1441 01:37:35,100 --> 01:37:38,430 they'll be doing the Acura RDX podcast, you know, there'll be 1442 01:37:38,460 --> 01:37:42,330 producing it Yeah. Branded podcast I shared with you a mess 1443 01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:45,480 is troublesome is troublesome? Well, I shared with you a 1444 01:37:45,480 --> 01:37:48,690 message, someone approached me and said, a guy we know 1445 01:37:48,690 --> 01:37:54,570 reputable. He says, If I have $30 million, I want to start a 1446 01:37:54,570 --> 01:38:01,410 media company that that basically red pills or orange 1447 01:38:01,410 --> 01:38:07,740 pills people that gets people to understand or use Bitcoin and 1448 01:38:07,740 --> 01:38:12,900 does it in a soft handed way. And, and I'm actually talking to 1449 01:38:12,900 --> 01:38:14,490 him on Monday, because 1450 01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:17,190 Dave Jones: I hadn't been that guy. Oh, it would have I would 1451 01:38:17,190 --> 01:38:18,690 have thought it was bullshit. Yeah. 1452 01:38:20,820 --> 01:38:23,160 Adam Curry: And so I know what I'm going to say. The first 1453 01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:26,130 thing I'm going to say is, here's what's not to do, do not 1454 01:38:26,130 --> 01:38:31,230 invest a single dime in content, a single dime. But I'm going to 1455 01:38:31,230 --> 01:38:36,240 tell him and I'm it'd be completely selfish. I'm going to 1456 01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:42,480 say, what we need here is a marketing company, a company 1457 01:38:42,510 --> 01:38:47,700 that markets apps, podcasts, wallets, but really, if you want 1458 01:38:47,700 --> 01:38:53,160 to be a media company, then you should go to the now Linux, I'm 1459 01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:55,380 just gonna use Linux unplugged, because I like those guys. And 1460 01:38:55,380 --> 01:39:00,660 this is easy target. And the you will market the crap out of them 1461 01:39:00,750 --> 01:39:04,950 in return for which you get a 5% split more 1% I don't care, it's 1462 01:39:04,950 --> 01:39:09,900 irrelevant. From their feed. They really the your media 1463 01:39:09,900 --> 01:39:12,330 company should actually be a wallet provider to be honest 1464 01:39:12,330 --> 01:39:15,660 about it. You should be providing wallets and wallets 1465 01:39:15,660 --> 01:39:17,400 like a lightning service provider, you should be 1466 01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:22,020 providing services so that people can easily get a wallet, 1467 01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:26,130 easily funded. These are all the things that are hard. But what 1468 01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:32,190 all we need is we need marketing. We need PR we need we 1469 01:39:32,190 --> 01:39:35,640 need Mitch being doing interviews with publications, we 1470 01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:38,370 need Oscar, you know, because that's what happens with VC 1471 01:39:38,370 --> 01:39:42,270 money. When people get VC money first of all, you handcuffed 1472 01:39:42,300 --> 01:39:47,040 golden handcuffs, and then you wind up paying yourself and then 1473 01:39:47,940 --> 01:39:51,780 you know you you spend most of the money marketing you know to 1474 01:39:51,780 --> 01:39:54,930 get your next funding round. That's how it works. So so 1475 01:39:54,930 --> 01:39:58,440 instead I'm gonna say why don't you reverse that process? Cuz I 1476 01:39:58,440 --> 01:40:01,650 don't want any money from you. I I'm done with that I'm, I'm an 1477 01:40:01,650 --> 01:40:07,110 old guy, now. We're happy with podcasts index 1% of everything 1478 01:40:07,110 --> 01:40:11,490 that moves around. And of course, we get, you know, people 1479 01:40:11,490 --> 01:40:14,490 put more in there, people support us as value for value. 1480 01:40:14,670 --> 01:40:17,370 So as you look, I think we have, I think we have two Bitcoin now 1481 01:40:17,370 --> 01:40:20,490 on the node, which we never take out, it's there, we provide 1482 01:40:20,490 --> 01:40:21,990 liquidity to everybody. 1483 01:40:22,890 --> 01:40:25,650 Dave Jones: But that's when, when that dries up, we drove to 1484 01:40:25,710 --> 01:40:26,370 exact 1485 01:40:26,370 --> 01:40:29,940 Adam Curry: but the point is, is that that's coming from, you 1486 01:40:29,940 --> 01:40:32,760 know, not just booster Graham's for this show, it's coming from 1487 01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:36,210 a lot of different places. So and he does, he says, he doesn't 1488 01:40:36,210 --> 01:40:38,190 even relate. It's not even necessarily big profit, but 1489 01:40:38,190 --> 01:40:40,200 good, then you're perfect for a marketing company. 1490 01:40:40,860 --> 01:40:43,950 Dave Jones: But, but you jettison profit. Yeah. And this 1491 01:40:43,950 --> 01:40:44,730 is you're in the strike zone. 1492 01:40:44,760 --> 01:40:47,880 Adam Curry: I mean, I would just be promoting apps promoting 1493 01:40:47,910 --> 01:40:51,900 onboarding, we have everything you need. The last things, I 1494 01:40:51,900 --> 01:40:55,170 hope I can convince this guy not to do what everyone's gonna do. 1495 01:40:55,290 --> 01:40:58,830 Hey, man, yeah, let's make a studio, let's have a studio 1496 01:40:58,830 --> 01:41:02,040 where people can create shows, that's gonna suck. And as a is a 1497 01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:05,790 good way to throw away $30 million. That's not what's 1498 01:41:05,790 --> 01:41:09,480 needed here. We need this ecosystem we've created we need 1499 01:41:09,480 --> 01:41:14,280 it to be marketed. We need every and then there's the apps, the 1500 01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:18,390 podcasts, and there's only there's only 16 or 17,000 1501 01:41:18,390 --> 01:41:21,900 podcasts via you can, you can highlight stuff, you can create 1502 01:41:21,900 --> 01:41:24,960 an onboarding station. That's the one thing we don't have. We 1503 01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:27,000 don't have marketing. We never that's what people wanted 1504 01:41:27,000 --> 01:41:30,180 podcasts index to be. And we discovered we're no good at 1505 01:41:30,180 --> 01:41:33,480 that. We don't have the time, the talent or the treasure, 1506 01:41:34,050 --> 01:41:37,440 literally full time job. Yeah, I mean, it takes a huge 1507 01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:42,630 organization. So I hope, I hope even if I can get a million of 1508 01:41:42,630 --> 01:41:46,560 that 30 to be put into marketing what we're doing, that'll be a 1509 01:41:46,560 --> 01:41:49,320 win. So that's my, that's my coming week. That's what I'll be 1510 01:41:49,320 --> 01:41:50,460 doing. Well, 1511 01:41:50,460 --> 01:41:53,130 Dave Jones: podcast. Luckily, you know, this goes back to the 1512 01:41:53,160 --> 01:41:56,430 discussion we've had before where podcasting is a media 1513 01:41:56,430 --> 01:42:01,080 distribution. platform that's, that's already built. Everybody 1514 01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:05,340 already has a podcast, radio receiver in their pocket. So 1515 01:42:05,370 --> 01:42:09,060 instead of trying to build something new from scratch, you 1516 01:42:09,060 --> 01:42:13,170 know, which is typically what Bitcoin people try to do always. 1517 01:42:13,170 --> 01:42:16,020 Yeah, they try to bid it's like, it's the not invented here 1518 01:42:16,020 --> 01:42:20,970 stuff. Just take, you know, take, take your take your money 1519 01:42:20,970 --> 01:42:24,030 if you have some and build on top of something that's already 1520 01:42:24,030 --> 01:42:27,690 there. Like, I mean, that it's already there. Yeah. And have to 1521 01:42:27,690 --> 01:42:28,950 build it all over again. 1522 01:42:29,070 --> 01:42:32,340 Adam Curry: And don't Oh, and one other thing I'd have, um, 1523 01:42:32,340 --> 01:42:36,660 say. I think it would have to be a wall, you know, lightning 1524 01:42:36,660 --> 01:42:39,960 service provider, make it so that people can connect their 1525 01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:45,000 podcast to the value for value infrastructure. And that when 1526 01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:50,070 someone sends a boost, it drops into their, into their bank 1527 01:42:50,070 --> 01:42:53,700 account as dollars. This is the thing. Yeah, this is what this 1528 01:42:53,700 --> 01:42:56,460 is what we never were able to succeed. What was the name of 1529 01:42:56,460 --> 01:43:00,240 the company that was working now not will strike won't do it. 1530 01:43:00,990 --> 01:43:05,730 Worked on that. With those guys. One swung? Oh, no. Well, another 1531 01:43:05,730 --> 01:43:10,950 one that didn't do it. I was working with it, because I had 1532 01:43:10,950 --> 01:43:16,290 it working for a little bit. And I have x Yeah, X endevor. I 1533 01:43:16,290 --> 01:43:20,550 actually was okay with it. Until you know, they couldn't do it 1534 01:43:20,550 --> 01:43:23,160 anymore. Whatever, they fell apart. They never could do value 1535 01:43:23,160 --> 01:43:25,920 for value streaming side, they couldn't do lightning basically. 1536 01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:29,280 But if you can make it so that people don't have to make that 1537 01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:32,730 conversion you overnight, you sweep it into an account for 1538 01:43:32,730 --> 01:43:36,810 them. The strike for all I care, it doesn't matter where it is. 1539 01:43:36,930 --> 01:43:39,360 These are the things that will move it forward. And when you 1540 01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:44,520 get people using Bitcoin. That's the whole point. You don't want 1541 01:43:44,520 --> 01:43:48,690 to have to explain it to them. You want you want to give them a 1542 01:43:48,690 --> 01:43:53,250 way to use it. So hopefully they know it's not Jack Dorsey, 1543 01:43:53,250 --> 01:43:54,570 please blueberry. 1544 01:43:56,370 --> 01:44:00,150 Dave Jones: JD brown it give me a break. 1545 01:44:01,440 --> 01:44:04,920 Adam Curry: Anyway, so that's what I hope to bring to the next 1546 01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:07,830 board meeting something positive on that. Wouldn't that be great 1547 01:44:07,830 --> 01:44:10,950 if we got some we got someone that just marketed this stuff? 1548 01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:14,070 Because the last thing I want is that we don't want money. I 1549 01:44:14,070 --> 01:44:14,760 don't want money. 1550 01:44:15,390 --> 01:44:17,310 Dave Jones: No, no, it's too much stress. 1551 01:44:17,400 --> 01:44:22,020 Adam Curry: I mean, no, no, no, we don't we just I just want I 1552 01:44:22,020 --> 01:44:25,200 just want this to more people to be exposed to this market, the 1553 01:44:25,200 --> 01:44:30,600 apps market this stuff market aims Ainslie Costello, to market 1554 01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:31,440 the live show. 1555 01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:37,200 Dave Jones: Market this market the the the people who are 1556 01:44:37,200 --> 01:44:42,570 already there? Yes. And you don't doesn't include us with I 1557 01:44:42,570 --> 01:44:44,940 don't want any of that. No, because market market the people 1558 01:44:44,940 --> 01:44:47,130 that are already there that are producing the content people 1559 01:44:47,130 --> 01:44:47,850 want to hear. 1560 01:44:48,330 --> 01:44:50,130 Adam Curry: Hopefully it's going to be such a because I know he's 1561 01:44:50,130 --> 01:44:52,200 talking to other people about this. Hopefully it's going to be 1562 01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:54,750 such a different message that will go Oh, because I can 1563 01:44:54,750 --> 01:45:00,510 definitely tell them how I how I spent $65 million on it. Podcast 1564 01:45:00,510 --> 01:45:03,510 Network and tell him that so you want that that's fine. Now, 1565 01:45:03,690 --> 01:45:06,240 let's find out what you're talking about. Finally, find 1566 01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:08,490 lots of people to spend that money for you. But if you really 1567 01:45:08,490 --> 01:45:11,340 want to do something, if you have an outcome in mind, this is 1568 01:45:11,340 --> 01:45:15,480 what you do. Here's the people. It's it's we have 16,000 We 1569 01:45:15,480 --> 01:45:18,900 have, I mean, oh my god, imagine if we're marketing music and 1570 01:45:18,900 --> 01:45:21,720 music shows. Can you just imagine what happened? 1571 01:45:21,750 --> 01:45:25,590 Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, I mean, this is the perfect time for 1572 01:45:25,590 --> 01:45:28,680 somebody to put money behind the music. Yep. The value for value 1573 01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:32,940 music ecosystem. Yep. Do it. I mean, like, yeah, and we'll and 1574 01:45:32,940 --> 01:45:36,720 we'll, and we'll keep building. It makes it work, keep 1575 01:45:36,720 --> 01:45:38,790 Adam Curry: building, keep building. And because we have 1576 01:45:38,790 --> 01:45:42,810 the value splits, everybody wins. Everybody wins, number go 1577 01:45:42,810 --> 01:45:45,870 up number go up for everybody. Well, 1578 01:45:46,830 --> 01:45:48,750 Dave Jones: we need to talk about one more thing before we 1579 01:45:48,870 --> 01:45:54,840 okay. Thank people. Sure. Yeah, sure. So would the other thing 1580 01:45:54,840 --> 01:46:00,480 is our terms of service for the podcast index? I mean, this is a 1581 01:46:00,480 --> 01:46:05,100 board meeting. So this is an appropriate topic that somebody 1582 01:46:05,100 --> 01:46:12,180 brought up on. On the podcast index, GitHub repos database 1583 01:46:12,390 --> 01:46:19,020 repository. Somebody posted on there that the that the term 1584 01:46:19,050 --> 01:46:22,770 that our terms of service prohibit prohibit, it's like, 1585 01:46:23,370 --> 01:46:25,950 section five dot something I don't know, fell asleep, 1586 01:46:26,340 --> 01:46:30,930 prohibits people from building databases based on the 1587 01:46:30,930 --> 01:46:34,950 information that they get from the index. Oh, really? Which? 1588 01:46:35,490 --> 01:46:41,220 Yeah. So I mean, for clarity, this the our terms of service 1589 01:46:41,220 --> 01:46:46,650 goes back to literally like day one. I mean, it's so it's been 1590 01:46:46,650 --> 01:46:50,520 there. I don't even know what's in it was a it was boilerplate 1591 01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:56,220 material. Yeah, let's rip that out. Yeah, do so do we need but 1592 01:46:56,400 --> 01:46:59,460 but if there's stuff in it, that we don't even know about that. 1593 01:46:59,460 --> 01:47:02,520 We need somebody to just write us to pay somebody just write us 1594 01:47:02,520 --> 01:47:04,590 some terms of service that make better sense. 1595 01:47:04,710 --> 01:47:06,930 Adam Curry: I think that we could have someone review it. 1596 01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:12,060 And one thing I know for sure there's lawyers in my life, who 1597 01:47:12,060 --> 01:47:15,060 will gladly help us out with their time and talent to just 1598 01:47:15,060 --> 01:47:17,280 run through it and say, Hey, this makes no sense for what 1599 01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:19,770 you're doing. So that right there five, a whatever it is, we 1600 01:47:19,770 --> 01:47:21,600 should just take that out, of course, people should be able to 1601 01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:25,440 build build databases off of our database. 1602 01:47:26,010 --> 01:47:29,190 Dave Jones: Yeah, that was like, what what? Yeah, no, we don't 1603 01:47:29,190 --> 01:47:32,250 want that. I mean, that's not that doesn't make any sense. I'm 1604 01:47:32,250 --> 01:47:35,070 sure it had something to say that that's the problem with 1605 01:47:35,070 --> 01:47:37,440 boilerplate stuff. And I'm sure it had something to do with 1606 01:47:37,440 --> 01:47:41,100 like, don't scrape us and build an email list or have a, you 1607 01:47:41,100 --> 01:47:43,140 know, some crap like that. Well, 1608 01:47:43,140 --> 01:47:45,330 Adam Curry: we know who we both know, who was in charge of 1609 01:47:45,330 --> 01:47:49,140 making those. Those terms of service, and that person had 1610 01:47:49,140 --> 01:47:53,190 different ideas about who we were and what we're about. Yeah. 1611 01:47:53,250 --> 01:47:54,240 So if 1612 01:47:54,420 --> 01:47:58,110 Dave Jones: it's probably like, I really wish that we could have 1613 01:47:58,110 --> 01:48:03,120 a terms of service that was just like, you know, don't do this. 1614 01:48:03,150 --> 01:48:06,720 Don't do this. Don't do this. But basically just a clear, it's 1615 01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:09,870 not like some 12 Page monstrosity, that nobody knows 1616 01:48:09,870 --> 01:48:14,610 what's in it. I wish it was just the simple thing that that said, 1617 01:48:14,820 --> 01:48:18,330 you know, hey, don't spam the don't spam the index. Right? 1618 01:48:18,360 --> 01:48:21,660 Don't you know, basically all this stuff? Like don't Don't be 1619 01:48:21,660 --> 01:48:22,410 a douche? 1620 01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:26,250 Adam Curry: How about that? Terms of Service? Point one a 1621 01:48:26,250 --> 01:48:29,730 Don't be a douche. There is no point to point 1622 01:48:29,730 --> 01:48:34,170 Dave Jones: yet. Point two is, you know, question mark. That's 1623 01:48:34,170 --> 01:48:37,740 what I want. Because I don't I have to stuff in the terms that 1624 01:48:37,740 --> 01:48:40,140 don't even I don't even understand. So well, if 1625 01:48:40,140 --> 01:48:44,310 Adam Curry: you're, if you're a lawyer, reach out to us. And I 1626 01:48:44,310 --> 01:48:51,060 will, we have a pretty good guy. Rob, who's, he does a lot of 1627 01:48:51,660 --> 01:48:54,690 analysis for me. And I'll ask him if he'll if he'll just run a 1628 01:48:54,690 --> 01:48:57,990 check and take a look. And he could probably just do that and 1629 01:48:57,990 --> 01:49:00,090 say, Hey, here's some things What do you think about this or 1630 01:49:00,090 --> 01:49:02,340 that? I mean, it's, it's not like writing something new, I 1631 01:49:02,340 --> 01:49:05,340 think we can just strip out or change chains of things that 1632 01:49:05,340 --> 01:49:07,980 aren't appropriate to what we're doing. And he understands value 1633 01:49:07,980 --> 01:49:08,520 for value. 1634 01:49:09,570 --> 01:49:12,600 Dave Jones: Okay, but like what good point back back then back 1635 01:49:12,600 --> 01:49:16,290 then when we first did it, I went through it and wrote a 1636 01:49:16,290 --> 01:49:20,490 simplified version of it. That was like, basically here's the 1637 01:49:20,490 --> 01:49:23,730 things that the terms say, but that was so long ago, I forgot 1638 01:49:23,730 --> 01:49:26,250 even what it was now. So interesting. 1639 01:49:26,610 --> 01:49:29,460 Adam Curry: Interesting. You bring that up? Because I'm right 1640 01:49:29,460 --> 01:49:36,000 now and that was for as much crap as I give ai ai ai because 1641 01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:37,140 you know, are 1642 01:49:37,140 --> 01:49:39,450 Dave Jones: you being Are you being seduced? No, no, 1643 01:49:39,450 --> 01:49:41,610 Adam Curry: no, I'm not being seduced. I'm actually let me 1644 01:49:41,610 --> 01:49:46,770 just bring this up here for a second. I think I sent you a 1645 01:49:46,770 --> 01:49:52,560 copy of this. But the I use otter.ai for our transcription. 1646 01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:56,040 Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Yeah, you did send me this. Yeah. And 1647 01:49:56,370 --> 01:49:58,770 Adam Curry: is it still do you still have it? And what and then 1648 01:49:58,800 --> 01:50:02,940 so otter is is you For a number of things, people can use it 1649 01:50:02,940 --> 01:50:07,440 for, you know, for meetings and calls and all kinds of stuff. 1650 01:50:07,920 --> 01:50:12,420 And so it had this pre pre written thing. I'm gonna see if 1651 01:50:12,420 --> 01:50:19,830 I can replicate it. What are the action items from this meeting? 1652 01:50:20,370 --> 01:50:25,350 So this is on episode 161. And so I asked what are the action 1653 01:50:25,350 --> 01:50:28,620 items from this meeting, and it says some of the main and it 1654 01:50:28,620 --> 01:50:33,150 came back with something, which is really funny. Some of the 1655 01:50:33,150 --> 01:50:35,970 main action items from this meeting include making the 1656 01:50:35,970 --> 01:50:39,510 activity pub bridge code public on GitHub after removing API 1657 01:50:39,510 --> 01:50:40,260 tokens. 1658 01:50:41,250 --> 01:50:42,420 Dave Jones: That's exactly right. Yeah, 1659 01:50:42,450 --> 01:50:47,610 Adam Curry: did you do it and go okay, good job adding links to 1660 01:50:47,610 --> 01:50:51,300 popular podcast apps like pod verse Pocket Casts etc under 1661 01:50:51,300 --> 01:50:55,710 each episode on the activity pub bridge. Now of course not adding 1662 01:50:55,710 --> 01:51:00,150 support to heli pad to post booster grams as replies under 1663 01:51:00,150 --> 01:51:03,750 episode posts on the activity pub bridge another good idea? 1664 01:51:04,350 --> 01:51:08,610 No, of course not. I'm just reading writing right over three 1665 01:51:08,850 --> 01:51:11,970 writing an explainer document about activity pub to help 1666 01:51:11,970 --> 01:51:16,680 podcast developers understand and integrate with it and in my 1667 01:51:16,680 --> 01:51:19,770 defense, you have to defend anything brother only 1668 01:51:19,770 --> 01:51:22,560 Dave Jones: for in my design defending myself against this a 1669 01:51:22,590 --> 01:51:28,470 douche point for I did say by the end of the month, so I gave 1670 01:51:28,470 --> 01:51:29,910 myself plenty of time. 1671 01:51:30,930 --> 01:51:34,320 Adam Curry: And the following last one can I love this because 1672 01:51:34,320 --> 01:51:37,710 it actually gives us a good list of stuff to remind us of 1673 01:51:38,310 --> 01:51:41,970 continuing to improve caching issues on Mastodon to ensure 1674 01:51:41,970 --> 01:51:48,750 album art and other metadata is updated properly. No. Zero for 1675 01:51:48,750 --> 01:51:52,920 five good meeting everybody. Well, notice I had no action 1676 01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:53,400 items. 1677 01:51:55,170 --> 01:51:57,030 Dave Jones: What is what is this? Just what 1678 01:51:57,480 --> 01:51:59,940 Adam Curry: does this make you hate AI even more now? 1679 01:52:00,480 --> 01:52:02,490 Dave Jones: Yeah, it does. Actually. 1680 01:52:02,520 --> 01:52:04,830 Adam Curry: I'm gonna put these here i holding me accountable. 1681 01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:09,240 Ai action item list. I'm going to put I'm going to keep this in 1682 01:52:09,240 --> 01:52:11,730 the show notes. That's hilarious. Oh, 1683 01:52:11,730 --> 01:52:15,000 Dave Jones: yeah, we if you keep referring back to the old stuff 1684 01:52:15,000 --> 01:52:18,120 that the AI dealt with, we will see model collapse in real time 1685 01:52:18,120 --> 01:52:19,770 as we go forward. Ooh, nice. 1686 01:52:19,770 --> 01:52:20,220 Adam Curry: Yes. 1687 01:52:22,980 --> 01:52:25,290 Dave Jones: Let's make it let's let's Fried's brains, please. 1688 01:52:25,650 --> 01:52:27,690 Adam Curry: Let's thank a few people because I know you gotta 1689 01:52:27,690 --> 01:52:31,350 go back to the office. I'm sure I'm off today. Oh, 1690 01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:32,070 Dave Jones: no. 1691 01:52:32,880 --> 01:52:35,190 Adam Curry: Crack a beer brother. All right, here we go. 1692 01:52:35,790 --> 01:52:39,990 Nathan G this is all the live booths people with a row of 1693 01:52:39,990 --> 01:52:43,230 ducks if the index has all the booster grams where you've 1694 01:52:43,230 --> 01:52:46,170 received a split, because those could those be served as 1695 01:52:46,170 --> 01:52:49,650 lightning comments in the social interact tag. Why don't you just 1696 01:52:49,650 --> 01:52:58,050 grab the third rail and lick it this socket stick your fingers 1697 01:52:58,050 --> 01:53:02,790 in a socket. This is this is no doubt we'll 1698 01:53:02,790 --> 01:53:06,060 Dave Jones: never see the light of No. Promise you this not 1699 01:53:06,060 --> 01:53:10,110 happen but I appreciate enough money in the world to make that 1700 01:53:10,110 --> 01:53:11,460 happen. Not gonna happen. 1701 01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:17,850 Adam Curry: Hard Hat 12345 Thank you horrified. Go podcasts, 1702 01:53:18,150 --> 01:53:22,440 blueberry. With ADA ADA. Last Friday, Ainsley and I compiled 1703 01:53:22,440 --> 01:53:25,770 every boost and zapped to read them live on a special edition 1704 01:53:25,770 --> 01:53:30,960 of before the stream be be be 40. Yes. Even after reading the 1705 01:53:30,960 --> 01:53:34,740 booths at breakneck speeds, it took two and a half hours to get 1706 01:53:34,740 --> 01:53:39,180 through everything. He says exactly what I call value. Yes. 1707 01:53:39,840 --> 01:53:44,220 Yes. Beautiful. I love that. Sam Sethi a couple of boosts from 1708 01:53:44,220 --> 01:53:49,740 Sam. Let's see we enabled we just enabled people who create a 1709 01:53:49,740 --> 01:53:54,240 playlist to be paid 5% in someone else's if someone else 1710 01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:57,540 streams that are playlists, and the other 95% goes to the 1711 01:53:57,540 --> 01:54:02,220 podcaster. Very interesting. These are all these are all 1712 01:54:02,340 --> 01:54:08,070 great things. Sam is definitely running around. Dave is this is 1713 01:54:08,070 --> 01:54:12,420 10,000 SATs by the way this is 10,000 SATs each time, Dave, we 1714 01:54:12,420 --> 01:54:16,230 are already talking to three hosts to trial a verify podcast 1715 01:54:16,230 --> 01:54:20,010 method today is email. But in other ways token in the Verify 1716 01:54:20,010 --> 01:54:25,920 tag or simpler is the REL equals me model. Okay, do you want to 1717 01:54:25,920 --> 01:54:28,590 comment on that on that because he keeps pushing this the REL 1718 01:54:28,590 --> 01:54:29,610 equals me model? 1719 01:54:32,610 --> 01:54:34,320 Dave Jones: No, I don't I don't want to come in. Because I don't 1720 01:54:34,320 --> 01:54:38,070 know enough about about it. Yes, but I do. I will make this 1721 01:54:38,070 --> 01:54:41,970 general statement. I I intentionally stayed out of the 1722 01:54:41,970 --> 01:54:48,600 namespace until the end of the year. Because I felt like just a 1723 01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:53,820 personal conviction that it was that we were moving too fast and 1724 01:54:53,820 --> 01:54:57,270 we needed to slow down a bit to let people catch up. But I'm 1725 01:54:57,270 --> 01:55:01,110 back in there now started as of yesterday. Um back in there and 1726 01:55:01,110 --> 01:55:06,000 so we can feel if people were seeing that the discussions were 1727 01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:09,090 not happening or moving forward, feel free to pop back in there 1728 01:55:09,090 --> 01:55:11,190 now because I'm going to be active in the comments again, 1729 01:55:11,370 --> 01:55:13,380 Sam, as we enter, we can move forward, Sam 1730 01:55:13,380 --> 01:55:15,540 Adam Curry: is paying our rent today man, another 10,000 from 1731 01:55:15,540 --> 01:55:19,740 Sam Sethi. 100% Adam, advertisers will pay listeners 1732 01:55:19,740 --> 01:55:22,710 we will be able to tell advertisers who listened percent 1733 01:55:22,710 --> 01:55:26,310 completed and value paid to listener. This is negative sets, 1734 01:55:26,310 --> 01:55:29,970 which we already support in true fans using value time split. If 1735 01:55:29,970 --> 01:55:33,330 I listen, I get paid. If not, nothing is paid. I'd love to see 1736 01:55:33,330 --> 01:55:36,750 an example of an advertiser doing that and how you prevent 1737 01:55:37,110 --> 01:55:41,730 clicks. Ma'am, we do another 10,000 phase seven looks super 1738 01:55:41,730 --> 01:55:46,050 hot XMPP client verify and publisher l fountain will be the 1739 01:55:46,050 --> 01:55:49,980 other app. But we already have another app. So it's cool. Yeah. 1740 01:55:50,010 --> 01:55:55,110 XMPP I'm kind of excited about that concept for another 10,000 1741 01:55:55,140 --> 01:55:58,260 samsat. The the medium of publisher is a static good we 1742 01:55:58,260 --> 01:56:01,980 have a medium of Publisher L and we also add the feed items we 1743 01:56:01,980 --> 01:56:07,230 can update the publisher page if a new episode is published. Does 1744 01:56:07,230 --> 01:56:07,920 that make sense? 1745 01:56:11,310 --> 01:56:15,510 Dave Jones: This part of this is part of their thing where they 1746 01:56:15,600 --> 01:56:18,300 where they can add stuff to the feed back out. 1747 01:56:18,330 --> 01:56:21,120 Adam Curry: I think so. Yeah. So you can subscribe to the 1748 01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:28,860 publisher L and then you get the episodes there. I think I have 1749 01:56:28,860 --> 01:56:31,020 to go look at it. Okay, 1750 01:56:31,200 --> 01:56:34,740 Dave Jones: well, well, well, we just we need we're gonna start 1751 01:56:34,740 --> 01:56:38,460 having guests again. Yeah, so we need to have we'll just have Sam 1752 01:56:38,460 --> 01:56:39,000 back on the show. We 1753 01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:43,350 Adam Curry: got to have him back on the show. Then we have 1754 01:56:43,350 --> 01:56:46,200 another 10,000 from Sam we have implement you might as well be a 1755 01:56:46,200 --> 01:56:49,620 guest we have implemented a publisher playlist so you follow 1756 01:56:49,620 --> 01:56:52,740 a publisher we notify you of any new updates got it. That's good. 1757 01:56:52,740 --> 01:56:57,210 So this is going to be in phase seven then 500 from radio Pete 1758 01:56:57,210 --> 01:57:00,510 Hello radio Pete he says listening live like a 2.0 Pro 1759 01:57:00,540 --> 01:57:03,300 Happy New Year to you both hoping to understand more of 1760 01:57:03,300 --> 01:57:07,200 what you talk about in 2024 I'm sure he got very confused by the 1761 01:57:07,200 --> 01:57:11,910 beginning of the show. Probably sorry. I love people who say I 1762 01:57:11,910 --> 01:57:14,280 listen to the show. I don't get most of it but I love listening 1763 01:57:14,280 --> 01:57:16,230 to the show. That's that's my favorite 1764 01:57:16,230 --> 01:57:18,420 Dave Jones: type of feedback. That is a real as a real 1765 01:57:18,420 --> 01:57:19,200 compliment. It 1766 01:57:19,200 --> 01:57:21,840 Adam Curry: is it is because we're making stuff entertaining 1767 01:57:21,870 --> 01:57:26,940 even if it's gobbledygook Yeah, Eric p p 3333. Boost plus plus 1768 01:57:26,940 --> 01:57:35,550 salty Crayon 3333 says test test received and let me see I think 1769 01:57:35,580 --> 01:57:38,640 that's what I got. Yes, that's all I have. 1770 01:57:39,540 --> 01:57:42,000 Dave Jones: Oh, see we get a wait. I gotta get a printer. 1771 01:57:42,000 --> 01:57:42,270 Hello. 1772 01:57:42,990 --> 01:57:45,840 Adam Curry: Get off the printer. By the way I've printed 1773 01:57:45,840 --> 01:57:50,220 Dave Jones: two things out and I forgot to go okay would you say 1774 01:57:50,220 --> 01:57:51,270 by the way what no no 1775 01:57:51,270 --> 01:57:53,520 Adam Curry: keep don't forget forget me. No, 1776 01:57:53,520 --> 01:57:57,750 Dave Jones: because I forgot to pull Oscar Mary's Pay Pal of 1777 01:57:57,750 --> 01:58:00,750 $200 off the printer thank you I was coming Wow 1778 01:58:00,750 --> 01:58:03,210 Adam Curry: Hello Oscar. Mary Thank you very much. Let me do 1779 01:58:03,210 --> 01:58:09,720 allow for you brother 20 blades on I am Paula always him always 1780 01:58:09,720 --> 01:58:10,440 appreciated. 1781 01:58:11,040 --> 01:58:15,570 Dave Jones: Yeah. And I had not had my first live experience 1782 01:58:15,570 --> 01:58:18,600 using fountain the other day I had not listened to anything 1783 01:58:18,600 --> 01:58:20,280 live on fountain and it was good. 1784 01:58:20,730 --> 01:58:23,040 Adam Curry: Oh, it works very well. Yeah, 1785 01:58:23,130 --> 01:58:27,570 Dave Jones: I popped into oh, what's the one that Dame 1786 01:58:27,570 --> 01:58:29,310 DeLorean does the 1787 01:58:29,310 --> 01:58:33,330 Adam Curry: live the that's the is it in that this the smoker in 1788 01:58:33,330 --> 01:58:34,950 the smoker and now 1789 01:58:34,950 --> 01:58:37,710 Dave Jones: that's Carolyn and this MEF got what it is that 1790 01:58:38,040 --> 01:58:40,980 camera? It's like it starts with age but it can't. 1791 01:58:42,090 --> 01:58:45,390 Adam Curry: Now it'll come to hog story hug story. Now 1792 01:58:45,390 --> 01:58:48,300 Dave Jones: as long story, it's a music podcast. 1793 01:58:49,140 --> 01:58:49,980 Adam Curry: Oh homegrown, 1794 01:58:49,980 --> 01:58:52,740 Dave Jones: his hunger on hits? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank 1795 01:58:52,740 --> 01:58:57,540 you. Yep, homegrown, has good show. Great experience on on 1796 01:58:57,570 --> 01:59:03,540 fountain. See, and here. Here's our here's our replies. So this 1797 01:59:03,540 --> 01:59:13,020 is from this is from Trevor the Satanist in Australia. He says 1798 01:59:13,020 --> 01:59:16,050 Hi, Dave, please, this this is in response to our comment about 1799 01:59:16,050 --> 01:59:21,300 weather about the Satan like, oh, this dynamic ad is yes. 1800 01:59:21,360 --> 01:59:25,500 Adam Curry: Oh, you mean the 666 in our in our what? What was 1801 01:59:25,500 --> 01:59:27,600 that about? I don't remember. At 1802 01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:31,650 Dave Jones: least we commented that. You said that anybody? You 1803 01:59:31,650 --> 01:59:34,890 know you're used to it. Anybody who allows you know who 1804 01:59:35,190 --> 01:59:39,300 encourages Google and YouTube to be part of your podcast 1805 01:59:39,360 --> 01:59:40,620 infrastructure. You're 1806 01:59:40,620 --> 01:59:43,140 Adam Curry: one of Satan's helpers. Yes. And I stand by 1807 01:59:43,140 --> 01:59:44,160 that. Yeah. And 1808 01:59:44,160 --> 01:59:47,970 Dave Jones: you said in you also said that. We made the comment 1809 01:59:47,970 --> 01:59:51,840 that that not even Satan likes dynamic ad insertion. And he 1810 01:59:51,840 --> 01:59:55,290 says, Hi Dave, please accept this message as Pay Pal booster 1811 01:59:55,290 --> 01:59:58,440 gram. message read next time my mother PayPal donations 1812 01:59:58,440 --> 02:00:01,440 mentioned congratulations on episode 161 which had a record 1813 02:00:01,440 --> 02:00:07,860 six references to Satan? To answer your question, Satan is 1814 02:00:07,860 --> 02:00:11,490 ambivalent about giving RSS to YouTube. But he's definitely 1815 02:00:11,490 --> 02:00:17,010 against dynamic and it's not even Satan would stoop that low. 1816 02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:19,650 Also, I know you guys are into numerology and I know that with 1817 02:00:19,650 --> 02:00:23,250 approval your podcast ID is 9200666. I see what you did 1818 02:00:23,250 --> 02:00:24,360 there. Cheers, Trevor. 1819 02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:26,400 Adam Curry: That's fine. How much did he give us? What was 1820 02:00:26,400 --> 02:00:26,730 his? 1821 02:00:27,540 --> 02:00:29,460 Dave Jones: His monthly is this $5 more? Thank 1822 02:00:29,460 --> 02:00:31,410 Adam Curry: you. I have a while we're on that just really 1823 02:00:31,410 --> 02:00:37,050 quickly. You know, I like I like my email address in my RSS feed. 1824 02:00:37,080 --> 02:00:42,390 I like getting the invitations to interview people. I like 1825 02:00:42,390 --> 02:00:46,170 being on those I do I do is very interesting. I've never taken 1826 02:00:46,170 --> 02:00:49,620 advantage of it. But I got this from a couple of different 1827 02:00:49,620 --> 02:00:53,070 people. So there's a campaign out there. And I just want to 1828 02:00:53,070 --> 02:00:59,430 let everybody know. It's the subject line Hi, internet 1829 02:00:59,430 --> 02:01:03,750 traffic from YouTube message. When we think about all the 1830 02:01:03,750 --> 02:01:06,510 traction, we can gain for podcast, there are only a few 1831 02:01:06,510 --> 02:01:09,720 channels that really stand out in regards to high intent 1832 02:01:09,750 --> 02:01:15,870 traffic. The fact of the matter is that who wrote this chat GPT 1833 02:01:16,320 --> 02:01:18,840 the fact of the matter is that YouTube is more of a search 1834 02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:22,380 engine than than a social media. Being able to optimize your 1835 02:01:22,380 --> 02:01:24,930 content to get those people who are interested in the exact 1836 02:01:24,930 --> 02:01:28,020 topic of a video is imperative. If you're uploading your video 1837 02:01:28,020 --> 02:01:31,890 to YouTube as is and not doing any around video optimization, 1838 02:01:32,040 --> 02:01:35,220 you're leaving 1000s if not hundreds of 1000s of high intent 1839 02:01:35,250 --> 02:01:38,370 engagement on the table. If you're wondering about how your 1840 02:01:38,370 --> 02:01:40,830 channel is currently performing, and its potential to grow, 1841 02:01:40,830 --> 02:01:45,510 please feel free to schedule a call. And I got this message 1842 02:01:45,510 --> 02:01:50,550 from multiple people clearly through email address in in the 1843 02:01:50,550 --> 02:01:57,630 podcast in RSS feed. So a call please, 1844 02:01:58,890 --> 02:02:01,110 Dave Jones: people would be shocked by the amount of by the 1845 02:02:01,110 --> 02:02:06,060 number of people that email us wanting to know how they can get 1846 02:02:06,090 --> 02:02:07,530 email addresses from the API. 1847 02:02:07,680 --> 02:02:10,620 Adam Curry: Oh my god, yeah. Hey, you know, it's really 1848 02:02:10,620 --> 02:02:13,920 weird. I've been looking I have a great project that I'm working 1849 02:02:13,920 --> 02:02:19,470 on. I'd love to. I'd love to. I'd love to use podcast index, 1850 02:02:19,680 --> 02:02:22,950 but for some reason I can't seem to get the email addresses. Is 1851 02:02:22,950 --> 02:02:23,970 this a mistake? 1852 02:02:24,000 --> 02:02:27,030 Dave Jones: Like please? I don't see it in the documentation 1853 02:02:27,030 --> 02:02:27,720 anywhere yeah, I 1854 02:02:27,720 --> 02:02:30,840 Adam Curry: can't find it in the API Doc's Yeah, okay. Nearby 1855 02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:31,590 That's odd. It 1856 02:02:31,590 --> 02:02:37,410 Dave Jones: shouldn't be there. Keep looking. Okay, we got Sir 1857 02:02:37,410 --> 02:02:42,930 Brian of London 1948 Boost he says our struggle booster conf 1858 02:02:44,850 --> 02:02:47,970 don't start don't start this Brian with with German. I don't 1859 02:02:47,970 --> 02:02:50,700 understand the ins with calm. Well, not a great idea. 1860 02:02:50,730 --> 02:02:53,700 Adam Curry: Well, mind calm, which was Hitler's book. That 1861 02:02:53,700 --> 02:02:55,260 literally means my struggle. 1862 02:02:56,220 --> 02:02:59,280 Dave Jones: Okay, so I'm saying I'm I'm assuming unser calm is 1863 02:02:59,310 --> 02:03:00,000 our struggle. 1864 02:03:00,030 --> 02:03:03,720 Adam Curry: Yes, correct. Okay, all right. It's only only Jews 1865 02:03:03,720 --> 02:03:07,620 can make these jokes with us. Right? Yes. Self deprecating in 1866 02:03:07,620 --> 02:03:09,630 an odd way. Yes. 1867 02:03:10,800 --> 02:03:14,370 Dave Jones: Is against Google? Our struggle is against Google. 1868 02:03:14,370 --> 02:03:18,360 Hey, Adam. You should write a book with that title. Don't do 1869 02:03:18,360 --> 02:03:25,530 that bad. I did have the title of your podcast. Do you mind 1870 02:03:25,530 --> 02:03:29,760 coming in your transcript contain comp see how fast how 1871 02:03:29,760 --> 02:03:30,630 much advertising 1872 02:03:32,280 --> 02:03:35,820 Adam Curry: I hear you can't even like basketball. Podcasts 1873 02:03:35,850 --> 02:03:39,840 are even get excluded because all these stupid companies see 1874 02:03:39,840 --> 02:03:43,350 the word shot like oh no, no, no, we can't that's always 1875 02:03:43,350 --> 02:03:46,620 talking about guns can't do that. Ellen see 1876 02:03:46,620 --> 02:03:49,920 Dave Jones: Paul 2345 through fountain is great episode agreed 1877 02:03:49,920 --> 02:03:53,070 that YouTube Google has no intent is no interest in 1878 02:03:53,070 --> 02:03:55,830 promoting podcasting as its own medium and your comments on art 1879 02:03:55,830 --> 02:03:59,190 versus AI are valid rather than spiritual technology. I define 1880 02:03:59,190 --> 02:04:00,180 it as alchemy. 1881 02:04:00,600 --> 02:04:06,270 Adam Curry: You know Alan see Paul, I met him at at the god 1882 02:04:06,270 --> 02:04:12,180 caster conference. And listen to this for a second. He also is a 1883 02:04:12,180 --> 02:04:17,430 value for value musician. Just listen to this. He's like, 1884 02:04:17,580 --> 02:04:23,070 Jazzy, he's all jazzy and it's all instrumental but his jazzy 1885 02:04:24,300 --> 02:04:26,820 wait until it kicks in you'll appreciate what this guy does. 1886 02:04:27,960 --> 02:04:36,150 Wait for the hook. Listen to the kicks in is coming up 1231 1887 02:04:36,150 --> 02:04:40,410 There's the baseline now. Come on, baby. Kick it in. 1888 02:04:45,420 --> 02:04:45,930 Right 1889 02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:50,280 Dave Jones: That's it? Yes. It's a little bit of a base drop. And 1890 02:04:50,280 --> 02:04:51,240 yeah, it's 1891 02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:53,880 Adam Curry: pretty good. It's called not far away. It's value 1892 02:04:53,880 --> 02:04:57,510 for value so you can put it in your show. Everybody. 1893 02:04:57,540 --> 02:04:59,190 Dave Jones: We don't we're not playing a song in the show 1894 02:04:59,190 --> 02:05:00,240 anymore. And I kind of miss Sit. 1895 02:05:02,129 --> 02:05:06,059 Adam Curry: Well, let's agree to Okay, attention AI. This is for 1896 02:05:06,059 --> 02:05:10,709 the minutes. This is for the action item is to play a song on 1897 02:05:10,709 --> 02:05:13,499 the next podcast. 1898 02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:17,940 Dave Jones: So the AI is going to interpret this it's going to 1899 02:05:17,940 --> 02:05:20,400 say one of the action items is making an action item. 1900 02:05:21,420 --> 02:05:24,060 Adam Curry: We'll see. We'll talk about it on the next show 1901 02:05:24,060 --> 02:05:24,660 for sure. 1902 02:05:25,230 --> 02:05:27,900 Dave Jones: By the way, this that music reminded me Have you 1903 02:05:27,900 --> 02:05:31,440 seen the the meat? I don't know what year it's from, but we 1904 02:05:31,440 --> 02:05:35,520 watched it last night. It's a musical called lala land. 1905 02:05:36,900 --> 02:05:39,090 Adam Curry: Yeah, I did not like it. 1906 02:05:39,690 --> 02:05:40,500 Dave Jones: I loved it. 1907 02:05:40,530 --> 02:05:44,370 Adam Curry: You know really? No, no. Ryan Gosling? Yeah, I did 1908 02:05:44,370 --> 02:05:47,430 not like it at all. i We tried it couldn't get into it just 1909 02:05:47,430 --> 02:05:50,580 gave up you like that, huh? I liked it. You know, between 1910 02:05:50,580 --> 02:05:53,400 Gilmore Girls and all the way through between Gilmore Girls in 1911 02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:55,650 the lala land musical. I'm getting a little worried about 1912 02:05:55,650 --> 02:05:56,400 your Dave Jones. 1913 02:05:57,750 --> 02:06:01,680 Dave Jones: Look, I hit 47 and I'm just like, I just want 1914 02:06:01,680 --> 02:06:02,370 almost I 1915 02:06:02,370 --> 02:06:06,060 Adam Curry: just want good good, wholesome, fun stuff. You listen 1916 02:06:06,060 --> 02:06:09,600 to the good Christian fun show with feed drops. I mean, dude, 1917 02:06:10,050 --> 02:06:12,030 you gotta get you into some rock and roll. 1918 02:06:12,930 --> 02:06:16,620 Dave Jones: This is This is Todd is the spiciest thing I listen 1919 02:06:16,620 --> 02:06:16,770 to. 1920 02:06:17,700 --> 02:06:20,280 Adam Curry: And he's spicy. What was his what was his comment? 1921 02:06:20,580 --> 02:06:24,840 You've got hope in one hand and pooping the other I mean, I 1922 02:06:24,840 --> 02:06:26,580 gotta use that now. So beauty. 1923 02:06:27,270 --> 02:06:29,190 Dave Jones: Open one hand pooping the other sandwich hand 1924 02:06:29,190 --> 02:06:37,020 fills up first. Yeah, he's from the Navy. Dave Jackson 7777 1925 02:06:37,710 --> 02:06:38,190 automatic. 1926 02:06:38,220 --> 02:06:42,930 Adam Curry: Where's my striper boost. Second. I can't believe I 1927 02:06:44,070 --> 02:06:49,230 hear this striper boost. striper boasts 1928 02:06:49,950 --> 02:06:54,630 Dave Jones: a says standing ovation. Well done boys. Thanks. 1929 02:06:54,900 --> 02:06:58,290 Now now this is interesting though. Cast ematic is where 1930 02:06:58,290 --> 02:07:04,380 this boost came from and it has a reply address in it. Oh, very 1931 02:07:04,380 --> 02:07:07,680 cool can boost back to cast thematic addresses. 1932 02:07:08,100 --> 02:07:08,730 Adam Curry: I love that he 1933 02:07:08,730 --> 02:07:11,610 Dave Jones: tells me that it's into cast meta uses Alby so 1934 02:07:11,610 --> 02:07:13,590 anybody using Albie should be able to 1935 02:07:13,590 --> 02:07:16,200 Adam Curry: do let me tell you Eric P P. I know you're busy 1936 02:07:16,200 --> 02:07:22,590 man. Bro, if I could get a reply button for boosts I would be 1937 02:07:22,590 --> 02:07:27,870 replying all the time. By love that idea. Healthy unhealthy, 1938 02:07:27,870 --> 02:07:30,990 Pat obviously. What? How cool would that be? 1939 02:07:32,370 --> 02:07:33,690 Dave Jones: He's in the chat. Yes. 1940 02:07:33,720 --> 02:07:38,160 Adam Curry: Yes. Man a few words. That's right. Yes, action 1941 02:07:38,160 --> 02:07:43,200 item Eric TP put reply in the helipad. Oh, 1942 02:07:43,200 --> 02:07:45,030 Dave Jones: he's he's working. He says I'm bashing my head 1943 02:07:45,030 --> 02:07:46,020 against that code. Okay, 1944 02:07:46,050 --> 02:07:49,590 Adam Curry: action items bash head against the code. No. 1945 02:07:49,830 --> 02:07:53,100 Dave Jones: Ai removed that action item. Let's see. You've 1946 02:07:53,100 --> 02:07:58,020 got to have friends and Belay that order. Okay, here we go. 1947 02:07:58,050 --> 02:08:02,760 Blueberry 33 333 through. Blue CLI says channel enter trailer 1948 02:08:02,760 --> 02:08:07,020 Narrator coming sunday live after no agenda. January 7 and 1949 02:08:07,020 --> 02:08:10,380 the resurrection battle of the douchebags season two, episode 1950 02:08:10,380 --> 02:08:13,110 one. Here we go again. reverb. Reverb reverb. 1951 02:08:13,170 --> 02:08:17,070 Adam Curry: Wow. I can't wait for that. I'll I'll be around. 1952 02:08:17,070 --> 02:08:17,850 I'll listen to it. 1953 02:08:21,030 --> 02:08:23,550 Dave Jones: Okay, that's, that's it. We've literally got four 1954 02:08:23,550 --> 02:08:25,980 boosts that other than the ones that arrived before the show. 1955 02:08:26,040 --> 02:08:27,240 And well, 1956 02:08:27,720 --> 02:08:30,300 Adam Curry: the comics or blogger has failed, I think. 1957 02:08:31,890 --> 02:08:36,630 Dave Jones: Yeah, it failed to us. The other splits work. Yeah. 1958 02:08:36,720 --> 02:08:39,750 Let me see if I can pull up his he sent. Yeah, 1959 02:08:39,750 --> 02:08:44,160 Adam Curry: it was interesting. Because even credit because I'm 1960 02:08:44,160 --> 02:08:48,000 getting other phone booths. I'm not sure why it failed. Then it 1961 02:08:48,000 --> 02:08:53,340 did go and check. And we have no, I think fountain is now 1962 02:08:53,340 --> 02:08:57,030 completely on Zebedee. So they probably close out the channel 1963 02:08:57,030 --> 02:09:00,030 to us. And I said, Hey, could you open one and Oscar said he 1964 02:09:00,030 --> 02:09:03,870 would ask Zebedee to open a channel to us. So it could have 1965 02:09:03,870 --> 02:09:08,070 been a routing issue. I'm not sure I mean, the fountain should 1966 02:09:08,070 --> 02:09:11,610 definitely have a channel open to the index. 1967 02:09:12,420 --> 02:09:14,370 Dave Jones: Oh for sure isn't here like if they don't that's a 1968 02:09:14,370 --> 02:09:15,720 real problem. We're like we're like 1969 02:09:15,720 --> 02:09:19,080 Adam Curry: the routing Mecca. And we have you know, our fees 1970 02:09:19,080 --> 02:09:20,400 are almost zero. 1971 02:09:21,450 --> 02:09:27,690 Dave Jones: Well, yeah, I'm looking at he CSB in his 1972 02:09:27,690 --> 02:09:32,430 screenshot, blanked out his message. Did you get it on the 1973 02:09:32,490 --> 02:09:32,910 no 1974 02:09:32,910 --> 02:09:36,060 Adam Curry: because believe it or not, my fiber went down I 1975 02:09:36,060 --> 02:09:40,200 guess last night, around the time probably around midnight or 1976 02:09:40,200 --> 02:09:42,780 something and I didn't notice that it was down until this 1977 02:09:42,780 --> 02:09:47,310 morning. Now the beautiful thing about great and not great they 1978 02:09:47,340 --> 02:09:52,710 it's almost perfect. I've started nine is my node. When if 1979 02:09:52,710 --> 02:09:56,310 you unplug the ethernet and I wish it would be if there's no 1980 02:09:56,310 --> 02:09:58,530 internet connection on the Ethernet but if you unplug the 1981 02:09:58,530 --> 02:10:02,310 ethernet, it immediately goes towards a known Wi Fi network. 1982 02:10:02,790 --> 02:10:08,190 And I have a, I have a backup system that it then switches 1983 02:10:08,190 --> 02:10:10,830 over to so the minute that happened I just made I noticed 1984 02:10:10,830 --> 02:10:14,400 that I pulled out the Ethernet and it switched it over and my 1985 02:10:14,400 --> 02:10:16,980 node came right back up, unfortunately doesn't do that. 1986 02:10:16,980 --> 02:10:20,400 When, when there's when the connectivity is lost, you know, 1987 02:10:20,400 --> 02:10:23,190 if it still sees packets from the router or whatever it 1988 02:10:23,190 --> 02:10:26,970 doesn't, it doesn't fail over. So anyway, so I don't miss the 1989 02:10:26,970 --> 02:10:30,030 eight hours worth of payments. Okay, 1990 02:10:30,030 --> 02:10:32,400 Dave Jones: well, I got I was able to it did go through the 1991 02:10:32,400 --> 02:10:36,570 fountain boost bot, so I'm able to see him as a comment. So 1992 02:10:37,590 --> 02:10:39,060 Adam Curry: everything no yeah, of course. Yeah. 1993 02:10:39,600 --> 02:10:42,810 Dave Jones: I want to give him credit. 33,000 SATs, says Howdy, 1994 02:10:42,810 --> 02:10:45,450 David Adam. Hey there dear podcast listeners, I'd like to 1995 02:10:45,450 --> 02:10:48,060 invite you to check out and subscribe to my blog, which 1996 02:10:48,060 --> 02:10:51,720 features some hilarious cartoons, just head over to www 1997 02:10:51,720 --> 02:10:56,340 dot CSB dot lol and get ready to laugh yo Yos ESP 1998 02:10:56,400 --> 02:11:00,120 Adam Curry: and I just want to remind CSB that sometimes his 1999 02:11:00,870 --> 02:11:03,480 his command of the English language comes across as a 2000 02:11:03,480 --> 02:11:08,400 little bit harsh desert when you're criticizing the app 2001 02:11:08,400 --> 02:11:12,510 developers, I mean, I've known him longer than I've known to 2002 02:11:12,510 --> 02:11:18,060 have my wives you come across as a dick's have just you know, 2003 02:11:18,090 --> 02:11:21,630 throw you know, when when you write something that's feedback, 2004 02:11:21,870 --> 02:11:26,490 run it through chat GPT four, and say please make this sound 2005 02:11:26,490 --> 02:11:30,930 friendly. Because that that's actually a good idea. I should 2006 02:11:30,930 --> 02:11:31,920 probably do that. 2007 02:11:32,400 --> 02:11:35,130 Dave Jones: Run it through there and then say, Do I sound like a 2008 02:11:35,130 --> 02:11:36,180 dick? No, 2009 02:11:36,180 --> 02:11:39,900 Adam Curry: no, no, no, just hold on a second. So this since 2010 02:11:39,900 --> 02:11:43,920 you have a little time. Let me let me just move just we can try 2011 02:11:43,920 --> 02:11:47,910 it right now. I don't have chat GPT four, but I have 3.5 but 2012 02:11:47,910 --> 02:11:54,330 just find his his post where it was very mean. He was mean to 2013 02:11:54,330 --> 02:12:00,210 Sam he was mean to Sam actually. Okay, he says Sam Sethi. I've 2014 02:12:00,210 --> 02:12:04,080 tried your true fans web app but it's totally useless and bad. No 2015 02:12:04,080 --> 02:12:06,780 indication which splits failed and which succeeded I tested on 2016 02:12:06,780 --> 02:12:09,240 my doorman podcast and whispering was not arriving in 2017 02:12:09,240 --> 02:12:12,810 full despite appearing in history a scent pad usability on 2018 02:12:12,810 --> 02:12:16,320 iPhone, so no thanks. If you will implement in future showing 2019 02:12:16,320 --> 02:12:19,080 in history, the splits and their status for each pen Bookstagram 2020 02:12:19,230 --> 02:12:22,470 then let me know I might take a look again. So let's copy that. 2021 02:12:25,560 --> 02:12:30,360 Okay, let's see what AI does. It's worth it. Okay. Make this 2022 02:12:30,420 --> 02:12:36,870 message sound friendly. Okay, paste. See what happens. See 2023 02:12:36,870 --> 02:12:40,620 what it does? Hey, there, I gave your true fans webapp a shot, 2024 02:12:40,770 --> 02:12:43,860 but I encountered a few challenges. It was a bit tricky 2025 02:12:43,860 --> 02:12:46,290 to figure out which splits failed and which one succeeded? 2026 02:12:46,410 --> 02:12:48,930 I tested it on my inactive podcast I noticed that booster 2027 02:12:48,930 --> 02:12:51,720 grams weren't arriving in full even though they showed up in 2028 02:12:51,720 --> 02:12:55,500 history ascend. The usability of my iPhone wasn't the best so for 2029 02:12:55,500 --> 02:12:58,590 now I'll pass however, if you consider implementing a feature 2030 02:12:58,590 --> 02:13:00,810 to show the splits and their status in the history recent 2031 02:13:00,810 --> 02:13:03,690 Bookstagram in the future I'd be interested in giving another try 2032 02:13:03,840 --> 02:13:08,850 let me know if that's in the works. Smile emoji. Wow. Wow. 2033 02:13:09,240 --> 02:13:09,870 Wow, can 2034 02:13:09,870 --> 02:13:13,800 Dave Jones: we can we put this somehow into podcast index dot 2035 02:13:13,800 --> 02:13:19,230 social, so that when CSB posts and it detects negativity it 2036 02:13:19,230 --> 02:13:25,500 will automatically do this but only for us him it still shows 2037 02:13:25,500 --> 02:13:25,650 up 2038 02:13:27,330 --> 02:13:32,250 Adam Curry: that's the new Bozo filter is you see it as your own 2039 02:13:32,250 --> 02:13:35,640 nasty gram but it shows up for everybody else in a nice way 2040 02:13:35,670 --> 02:13:41,370 that's a knob there's a use of AI I actually support hold on so 2041 02:13:41,400 --> 02:13:50,460 I'm gonna I'm going to ask him right now friend friend defied 2042 02:13:50,550 --> 02:13:59,880 with chat GPT paste to find with doesn't work because it's too 2043 02:13:59,880 --> 02:14:02,670 long for the I don't have enough no for the 2044 02:14:04,140 --> 02:14:06,660 Dave Jones: mean like this is this is a good because what will 2045 02:14:06,660 --> 02:14:10,800 happen is just like this this app is crap this thing is worse 2046 02:14:10,800 --> 02:14:14,160 piece of effing junk I've ever seen and what you get back from 2047 02:14:14,160 --> 02:14:17,760 the developers like little hearts they're like some kind 2048 02:14:18,990 --> 02:14:20,790 Adam Curry: what was the other one? He said he said something 2049 02:14:20,790 --> 02:14:22,260 to Oscar Mayer This is funny 2050 02:14:27,090 --> 02:14:28,650 Dave Jones: I think that was the one about the channel or 2051 02:14:28,650 --> 02:14:30,930 something. Or no, no, I know what you're talking about is 2052 02:14:30,960 --> 02:14:34,080 that the app gets broken. 2053 02:14:34,440 --> 02:14:37,710 Adam Curry: Yeah, I wish I could find that one. I was hilarious. 2054 02:14:40,110 --> 02:14:43,620 I can't find it that fast. Anyway, that's that's that or 2055 02:14:43,620 --> 02:14:47,910 you know be could also could also be it could be just on the 2056 02:14:47,910 --> 02:14:52,920 receiving side. You could just turn on make all posts friendly. 2057 02:14:54,720 --> 02:14:57,930 Dave Jones: Yeah. You don't have a choice. Everything gets friend 2058 02:14:57,930 --> 02:14:58,830 deferred. Yeah, 2059 02:14:58,860 --> 02:15:00,900 Adam Curry: we're not done with that. Now. That's something that 2060 02:15:00,900 --> 02:15:05,280 I would be okay with I wouldn't be fine with it oh here it is 2061 02:15:06,000 --> 02:15:09,390 understandable way this was the deplorable that's what it was it 2062 02:15:09,390 --> 02:15:16,830 was the deplorable yes and deplorable that get Alby is not 2063 02:15:16,830 --> 02:15:20,280 offering okay I'm just deplorable that get Alby is not 2064 02:15:20,280 --> 02:15:25,920 offering details in dashboard and an API message sender and 2065 02:15:26,010 --> 02:15:29,400 message texts are calling a blah, blah blah. was a different 2066 02:15:29,400 --> 02:15:34,380 post about deplorable. Anyway, I don't I don't remember exactly 2067 02:15:34,380 --> 02:15:35,040 where it was. 2068 02:15:35,100 --> 02:15:37,920 Dave Jones: Let's see ESPYS he's an AI guy he can he can he can 2069 02:15:37,920 --> 02:15:38,910 figure it out. Yes. 2070 02:15:40,260 --> 02:15:42,030 Adam Curry: That's the way to write his own script. That's the 2071 02:15:42,030 --> 02:15:44,280 way to go. I think that that will be perfect. It's much 2072 02:15:44,280 --> 02:15:46,110 better, much better that we do or do that 2073 02:15:46,110 --> 02:15:48,930 Dave Jones: thing where you know how you know sometimes they have 2074 02:15:48,930 --> 02:15:52,410 those bots where you can say where you can tag somebody else 2075 02:15:52,410 --> 02:15:54,870 in the post and the bot will grab that post and do something 2076 02:15:54,870 --> 02:15:58,920 with it. Yes, yeah. Friend, you can you see a nasty post from 2077 02:15:58,920 --> 02:16:01,470 somebody. You can say friend to fight you can send it to the 2078 02:16:01,470 --> 02:16:04,860 friend of five baht and it'll come back with the nice version. 2079 02:16:07,170 --> 02:16:12,690 monthlies. Oh, yeah, we got pot, Brendan a pod page. $25. Thank 2080 02:16:12,690 --> 02:16:16,830 you, Brandon. Over there, Paige. Appreciate that. Jesse $110. 2081 02:16:17,310 --> 02:16:22,500 Joseph maraca $5 mo Emilio Kendall Molina, $4, Mark, gram 2082 02:16:22,500 --> 02:16:25,350 $1 and new media $1. Thank you guys. 2083 02:16:26,700 --> 02:16:29,040 Adam Curry: Thank you all very much value for value. We've been 2084 02:16:29,040 --> 02:16:31,650 talking about it throughout the whole podcast, it is a real 2085 02:16:31,650 --> 02:16:36,390 thing. It does work. It's kept this entire this community 2086 02:16:36,390 --> 02:16:41,460 really together. We appreciate the value you send to the show 2087 02:16:41,460 --> 02:16:45,000 so much. You can go to podcast index.org. Down at the bottom 2088 02:16:45,000 --> 02:16:48,900 you'll see two red donate buttons. One is for your Fiat 2089 02:16:48,900 --> 02:16:54,150 fun coupons, as you heard we absolutely accept Paypal. And 2090 02:16:54,150 --> 02:16:57,150 the other one is for tally coin for all that on chain Bitcoin 2091 02:16:57,150 --> 02:17:00,390 everyone's going to send us and the last payment was October 27 2092 02:17:00,390 --> 02:17:03,810 of 2023. So it doesn't seem to be working that well. However, 2093 02:17:03,960 --> 02:17:07,920 get a modern podcast app at podcast apps.com Fill up your 2094 02:17:07,920 --> 02:17:11,190 wallet boost us boots to boost to your heart's content. We read 2095 02:17:11,190 --> 02:17:14,430 all the messages that you heard. And you contribute back to the 2096 02:17:14,430 --> 02:17:16,650 show in two ways. One by supporting the whole project 2097 02:17:16,650 --> 02:17:20,280 supporting the podcast. And and by supporting us with some with 2098 02:17:20,280 --> 02:17:23,820 some nice words of encouragement. We hope we hope 2099 02:17:24,750 --> 02:17:26,790 Dave Jones: and if you don't we will turn them into nice words. 2100 02:17:26,820 --> 02:17:27,300 Yes. With 2101 02:17:27,330 --> 02:17:31,350 Adam Curry: with Chad GPT. Exactly. Yes. Wow. Okay, well, 2102 02:17:31,380 --> 02:17:34,020 what are we got? Wow. 217 This is long. 2103 02:17:34,980 --> 02:17:35,940 Dave Jones: Oh, whoa, we're, uh, 2104 02:17:36,510 --> 02:17:38,940 Adam Curry: we're way over. We're way over. Alright. I will 2105 02:17:38,970 --> 02:17:42,360 get the action items from the AI later and I'll I'll I'll have 2106 02:17:42,360 --> 02:17:43,590 those ready for the next show. 2107 02:17:44,340 --> 02:17:47,580 Dave Jones: I will predict and make a bold prediction that as 2108 02:17:47,580 --> 02:17:49,980 of next week, none of these action items will be done. 2109 02:17:50,010 --> 02:17:50,610 Exactly. 2110 02:17:51,629 --> 02:17:53,459 Adam Curry: Hey, brother, have yourself a great weekend. Dave. 2111 02:17:54,629 --> 02:17:57,569 Everybody else in the boardroom. Have a great weekend. We'll talk 2112 02:17:57,569 --> 02:17:58,919 to you next week here on podcast. 2113 02:18:15,539 --> 02:18:19,469 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit 2114 02:18:19,469 --> 02:18:22,859 podcast index.org. For more information, 2115 02:18:23,310 --> 02:18:27,210 Adam Curry: go podcast. Holy cow