Episode 75: Liquidifying for Love

1 00:00:00,719 --> 00:00:06,059 podcasting 2.0 for February 25 2022, episode 75 We're liquid 2 00:00:06,059 --> 00:00:12,479 defying for love and making up new words as we do it. Hello 3 00:00:12,479 --> 00:00:14,579 everybody, welcome to the official board meeting of 4 00:00:14,579 --> 00:00:18,419 podcasting. 2.0 everything going on to podcast index.org, the 5 00:00:18,419 --> 00:00:21,989 podcast namespace, and of course, everything that we talk 6 00:00:21,989 --> 00:00:25,529 about in podcasting. Next up social and at the watercooler. 7 00:00:25,769 --> 00:00:28,229 I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country on 8 00:00:28,229 --> 00:00:31,289 Alabama the man who wraps up your recommendations my friend 9 00:00:31,289 --> 00:00:33,359 on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, please say hello to 10 00:00:33,359 --> 00:00:39,359 Mr. Dave Jones. liquid liquid quit find for love AV 11 00:00:41,700 --> 00:00:44,880 invasion check if you've been invaded. I'm not I have not been 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:45,060 yet. 13 00:00:45,810 --> 00:00:51,150 Hold on. Any Russians? No, no, I've not been invaded yet. 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,640 I'll clean here from Oakland. 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,890 Man, please don't get don't get me started. Don't get me 16 00:00:58,890 --> 00:01:01,830 started. I'm not I just recommend everybody watch wag 17 00:01:01,830 --> 00:01:05,520 the dog and you'll know my stance on this. Have you ever 18 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:06,090 seen that movie? 19 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:09,450 Crazy 48 hours and have not I've always heard it's one of those 20 00:01:09,450 --> 00:01:12,510 things that perpetually in the in the social parlance, but I've 21 00:01:12,510 --> 00:01:13,380 never seen it. 22 00:01:13,410 --> 00:01:16,260 We should actually get that trending on Netflix because it's 23 00:01:16,260 --> 00:01:19,620 Dustin Hoffman. It's it's a comedy. It's a funny movie. But 24 00:01:19,650 --> 00:01:23,790 it explains so well. What I think we're living through right 25 00:01:23,790 --> 00:01:28,290 now. Anyway. It's alright. Because that's why we're here to 26 00:01:28,290 --> 00:01:29,160 save the world. 27 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,540 Yet one podcast at a time. That's right. While we run with 28 00:01:34,350 --> 00:01:37,410 once one Yeah, one, one half as protocol or 29 00:01:38,790 --> 00:01:42,960 anything but half as Dave. The the protocol protocols are 30 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:47,040 great, man, there's so much going on. And we have a great 31 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,000 guest on today's show. So we can bring him in pretty quickly. So 32 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,180 anything specifically we need to talk about right off the top 33 00:01:54,180 --> 00:01:58,800 here at the board meeting. Some kind of buzz now what's going 34 00:01:58,800 --> 00:01:59,040 on? 35 00:01:59,490 --> 00:02:04,890 Well, I mean, I've been doing some stuff that hasn't been 36 00:02:04,890 --> 00:02:09,150 super visible. Over the last couple of weeks, really. I mean, 37 00:02:09,450 --> 00:02:14,040 there was a hell of had released that. And that took some time. I 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,800 was that's a great release. By the way. Thank you. Thank you 39 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,180 for doing all that for the export. The CSV export is 40 00:02:21,210 --> 00:02:24,510 outstanding. Thanks for teaching me how to import that into 41 00:02:24,510 --> 00:02:28,680 Excel. Oh, yeah. With with auto pivot tables. Oh, 42 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:30,480 it's a game changer. 43 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:35,250 Yeah, I mean, especially for someone who's made pivot tables, 44 00:02:35,250 --> 00:02:38,190 like, can I select all this and then I got to select which 45 00:02:38,220 --> 00:02:44,130 inputs and this is just like import from CSV? Okay. 46 00:02:45,060 --> 00:02:47,910 Well, I feel like it's stable. Now. I feel like there's a lot 47 00:02:47,910 --> 00:02:54,090 of there's, you know, bugs or a side effect of speed, mostly for 48 00:02:54,090 --> 00:02:57,600 the most part. And, you know, the faster you push something 49 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,350 out the door, the less chance it gets to be tested. 50 00:03:01,380 --> 00:03:06,180 Oh, so you do in this, you know, after hours, your lunch break. I 51 00:03:06,180 --> 00:03:08,370 mean, this is not your your prime directive. 52 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,140 But that, but I feel like after I guess this is the third 53 00:03:13,140 --> 00:03:16,560 release. Yeah, third release, I feel like we're Third time's a 54 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,040 charm in the field we got we're pretty stable. Now when it comes 55 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,910 to getting those payloads out reliably and not having any 56 00:03:23,910 --> 00:03:27,990 loose or what what had happened was so Chris Fisher, of Jupiter 57 00:03:27,990 --> 00:03:31,050 broadcasting and they do like Linux unplugged and Linux Action 58 00:03:31,050 --> 00:03:36,090 News and coder radio. They they're heavy users of hell pad 59 00:03:36,090 --> 00:03:42,030 now. And so he had emailed me and said, hey, you know, our 60 00:03:42,030 --> 00:03:44,790 health had just stopped, just stopped updating. And this is, 61 00:03:45,090 --> 00:03:49,650 this is the this is the standard bug now. Right? yellow pad just 62 00:03:49,650 --> 00:03:51,120 died, you know, it just stopped. 63 00:03:51,420 --> 00:03:55,170 Well, now, I've seen some of this can also just be Umbral. 64 00:03:55,830 --> 00:03:58,260 Yeah, a lot of people running unrolls, and they do have their 65 00:03:58,260 --> 00:03:58,860 issues. 66 00:03:59,610 --> 00:04:03,630 Well, what was unique about this one is he said I'm looking at. 67 00:04:04,710 --> 00:04:07,140 He said, I opened up to see so these are coders. These are 68 00:04:07,140 --> 00:04:11,490 developers, which is amazing to work with. When you have other 69 00:04:11,490 --> 00:04:15,360 coders giving you bug reports is beautiful, because they don't 70 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,490 just say like, Hey, it didn't work. 71 00:04:17,970 --> 00:04:23,250 Oh, come on. I'm better than that. And no. No, they say, Hey, 72 00:04:23,250 --> 00:04:25,920 I think you're getting trapped here on an escaped characters 73 00:04:25,950 --> 00:04:29,760 character. That was a Unicode ID three centuries ago. 74 00:04:30,060 --> 00:04:33,060 Yeah, they give you they give you all kinds of context. 75 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:38,160 Beautiful, beautiful, lovely, luscious context. And like he 76 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,840 said, a help had stopped dating, but I know we're getting boost 77 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:48,450 because I opened up the SQL lite database. Right. And I see new 78 00:04:48,450 --> 00:04:53,370 entries and I was like, yeah, there we go. So it turned out 79 00:04:53,940 --> 00:04:59,010 that what the issue was so I was I was stripping is a couple 80 00:04:59,010 --> 00:05:02,670 things for safety. Within help me help as a JavaScript based, 81 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:06,180 you know, single page app. Is that what you want it what 82 00:05:06,180 --> 00:05:09,330 you're what you have is a scenario where you have random 83 00:05:09,330 --> 00:05:13,320 people on the internet sending you content, right? Yes. And you 84 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,550 have to play defense, 85 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,330 emojis. That was amazing. The emojis worked. I mean, that was 86 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,380 that by itself was such a crazy, crazy experience. 87 00:05:22,950 --> 00:05:26,430 Yes, so the first, you know, prime prime directive number 88 00:05:26,430 --> 00:05:32,160 one, when it comes to protecting your JavaScript from random user 89 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,540 generated content is, you know, tag tag stripping within HTML, 90 00:05:36,540 --> 00:05:41,790 right? Okay, got it in, definitely want to cleanse that. 91 00:05:42,150 --> 00:05:45,120 You don't want just anybody to be able to send you random HTML 92 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:51,210 tags, and then render them. So I handle that a couple of ways. I 93 00:05:51,210 --> 00:05:57,000 built a strip tags function, excuse me, that would strip out 94 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:03,600 HTML tags in the message content in but what I was doing with 95 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,070 that was actually running it over the entire JSON block after 96 00:06:08,070 --> 00:06:17,550 that was rendered since JSON. Is not is that is the greater than 97 00:06:17,550 --> 00:06:20,400 less than characters are not special characters within JSON. 98 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,850 I'm like, okay, I can just run that on the JSON block. And 99 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:28,110 that'll that'll take care of it. That'll take care of, of 100 00:06:28,110 --> 00:06:30,240 stripping tags out of everything. If somebody decided 101 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:36,120 to get geeky, get cute, and put a script tag. Na, 102 00:06:36,210 --> 00:06:36,900 yay. 103 00:06:37,950 --> 00:06:43,770 Great stuff. Yeah. But unfortunately, that's not in 104 00:06:43,770 --> 00:06:48,390 retrospect. Clearly, that has an issue. So one of the the issue 105 00:06:48,390 --> 00:06:53,580 that was happening was, somebody sent them a message. And they 106 00:06:53,580 --> 00:06:56,670 had a little ASCII emoji in the message of the heart, which is 107 00:06:56,850 --> 00:07:01,350 opened, which is less than sign. Three. So sideways heart. 108 00:07:01,860 --> 00:07:03,840 That's Ah, right. 109 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,360 That never closes. 110 00:07:06,690 --> 00:07:11,430 Oh, man. Okay, that's obscure or nice. In the the effect it had 111 00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:14,910 was that that might have been me. I'm always doing hearts with 112 00:07:14,910 --> 00:07:15,540 asking, Can 113 00:07:15,570 --> 00:07:21,360 I do that, too? That didn't hit me in my brain is a problem. But 114 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,440 anyway, so that clearly is a problem, because you open the 115 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,870 tag and never close it. So it would wipe out the end of the 116 00:07:27,870 --> 00:07:31,950 Jace, there was half a JSON block in there. So just totally 117 00:07:31,950 --> 00:07:35,400 screw it up. Oh, anyway, went back and cleared that did proper 118 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:40,470 escape, you know, at field level escaping on all the tags and put 119 00:07:40,470 --> 00:07:42,300 that implemented that as a trade. 120 00:07:42,899 --> 00:07:46,829 So now is this is this now a GitHub project where people can 121 00:07:46,829 --> 00:07:50,759 start contributing is someone you know, I mean, I don't want 122 00:07:50,759 --> 00:07:54,179 to default to you. But I mean, is this now going to be 123 00:07:54,179 --> 00:07:56,639 enhanced? I mean, a lot of people have great ideas. 124 00:07:56,849 --> 00:07:59,759 Hopefully, some coders can do some stuff, because man. 125 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,680 Yeah, a couple of people have already forked it and stuff. And 126 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,270 we've already had a couple contributions to do that have 127 00:08:09,270 --> 00:08:13,140 been merged in. Yeah. It's definitely an open project. 128 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:16,260 Anybody can. Anybody can stick me a stick whatever they want to 129 00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:19,800 in there, as long as it makes some sense. Nice. No, yeah. No, 130 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,660 it's good release. And I think the CSV export, there's a couple 131 00:08:24,660 --> 00:08:27,390 of bugs I found in that as a result of you sending me your 132 00:08:27,390 --> 00:08:31,800 database, because you, your database is so big, it lives 133 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,580 what she said. I'm sorry, I had to do it. 134 00:08:37,289 --> 00:08:44,879 Your database is so is so big. That it gave lots of opportunity 135 00:08:44,879 --> 00:08:45,269 for 136 00:08:45,449 --> 00:08:49,919 for crap. Yeah, fairy furniture for Well, what I you know, I 137 00:08:50,249 --> 00:08:53,309 just wasn't prepared to start posting bug reports yet. But 138 00:08:53,309 --> 00:08:57,029 there's definitely some apps do put things in different fields, 139 00:08:57,029 --> 00:09:00,509 particularly if there's longer messages. Some things get like, 140 00:09:00,509 --> 00:09:04,709 I think the podcast name sometimes gets switched around, 141 00:09:04,739 --> 00:09:07,949 that could be in the export for some reason. Or it could be the 142 00:09:07,949 --> 00:09:11,159 way some apps and I think pod friend might send something 143 00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:15,149 weird sometimes. But I'll have to love to look deeper. I just 144 00:09:15,149 --> 00:09:17,819 looked at the Excel sheet. And I remember like, Oh, this isn't 145 00:09:17,819 --> 00:09:19,079 this isn't a wrong field. 146 00:09:20,940 --> 00:09:24,780 Like recently with it with this new release? Yeah. Send me a 147 00:09:24,780 --> 00:09:29,010 screenshot because that the CSV that sounds like if you have a 148 00:09:29,010 --> 00:09:31,650 field appearing in a different place that sounds like it's 149 00:09:31,650 --> 00:09:36,930 something with the parsing of ML to create this CSV job by hand. 150 00:09:36,930 --> 00:09:41,820 So it's possible that a delimiters sneaking through and 151 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,100 places not getting escaped properly or some 152 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,420 right okay thing, but I mean, it's small thing. It's a very, 153 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,820 actually, I'm opening it up now. Let me just see if I can see it 154 00:09:50,820 --> 00:09:51,390 offhand. 155 00:09:52,290 --> 00:09:55,170 Yeah, if you can pinpoint it. I can probably tell pretty quick 156 00:09:55,170 --> 00:09:56,760 what it is and fix it. Yeah. 157 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:04,380 It's pod four. Okay, pod friends interesting comics through 158 00:10:04,380 --> 00:10:13,860 blogger, pod friend and then of course under the message you 159 00:10:13,860 --> 00:10:17,340 don't know how funny that is to me under Message howdy Tina and 160 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:20,130 Adam and then under pot. Oh, that's what's changed instead of 161 00:10:20,130 --> 00:10:24,810 the podcast saying curry in the keeper. It continues with the 162 00:10:24,810 --> 00:10:27,690 rest of his message greetings from Eurotrash content. What I 163 00:10:27,690 --> 00:10:30,600 have to do is voice greetings from Euro trash content. I wish 164 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,470 you fast recovery from Corona if you're bored, feel free to visit 165 00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:40,020 my blog all comic strip blog.com Yo, and then under another 166 00:10:40,020 --> 00:10:43,440 episode it continues otherwise just relax. Don't booze too 167 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,590 much. That's only slobs like me and Jean our identity 168 00:10:46,890 --> 00:10:48,810 genetically alcohol resistant. 169 00:10:49,950 --> 00:10:50,820 resistant. 170 00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:57,240 So and then it moves in the pocket. Yeah, and then then it 171 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,630 moves Korean the keeper and Kerviel Cuf to different fields 172 00:11:00,630 --> 00:11:05,370 in the to the column one do to other fields in the Excel. Okay, 173 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,480 so it sounds like a great shot. Okay, you know, dick pics are 174 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,330 illegal now in the UK. So I got to be careful what I send you. 175 00:11:12,660 --> 00:11:19,200 Yes. Yeah, I can. It's funny. There must be some. I don't know 176 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,280 how that can happen. You know, I The funny thing about bugs is 177 00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:27,630 you never know how they happen until you find them. Oh, there 178 00:11:27,630 --> 00:11:28,230 it is. 179 00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:30,690 I'll just send you the CSV file. You can take a look at it 180 00:11:30,690 --> 00:11:34,410 yourself. Okay, yeah. Beautiful. That's probably probably the 181 00:11:34,410 --> 00:11:38,010 easiest. Well, since we're talking about messaging. 182 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:42,990 Actually, before we bring in our guests, I just wanted to mention 183 00:11:42,990 --> 00:11:46,380 one thing. I was listening to pod land as I do. I was boosting 184 00:11:46,380 --> 00:11:53,970 pod land, I should say. I'm a I'm a hate booster. Oh, no, not 185 00:11:53,970 --> 00:11:57,660 hate, but I'm always like, No, this is wrong. Here's 300,003 186 00:11:57,660 --> 00:11:59,580 And three, three SATs that proves that you're wrong. 187 00:12:00,210 --> 00:12:02,550 You can use that to the podcasters doing that to their 188 00:12:02,550 --> 00:12:03,360 benefit. But 189 00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:07,050 remember, we monetize trolls with podcasting. 2.0. This is 190 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:13,290 our monitor. Yes, yeah. We certainly monetized trolls. But 191 00:12:13,290 --> 00:12:15,480 there was one discussion, which I just wanted to say something 192 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:22,830 about and get your input on. And I'd seen James is his proposal 193 00:12:22,830 --> 00:12:27,990 for a replacement for the owner email tag in the RSS feed? 194 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,109 Yes. I'd like to talk about that as well. Yeah. Okay. I 195 00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:37,410 have two things to say about it. One. Are you kidding me? I mean, 196 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:44,520 yeah, really, I mean, this is, I have had, I've had my name and 197 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:51,060 my email address in my feed for a for 15 years. And the only 198 00:12:51,060 --> 00:12:54,720 thing that's, that doesn't even bother me is I get lots of 199 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:01,200 publicists and PR people, I get on their mailing list. And then 200 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,720 these lists are created and they're shared. And quite 201 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,960 honestly, I look at I look at it gets to it's usually podcasting 202 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,390 related. And a lot of it is like, Hey, I've went to his new 203 00:13:09,390 --> 00:13:13,860 service. here's this, here's that. And now if I wanted to, I 204 00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:17,790 could put a different email address in there. And so that, 205 00:13:17,820 --> 00:13:21,390 you know, we go to a different box. If that was a big problem. 206 00:13:21,570 --> 00:13:26,760 It is by far the easiest way to identify ownership. There's 207 00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:33,210 issues with idiots who lose email access and but the same 208 00:13:33,210 --> 00:13:37,830 can be said for a token. And also, I believe that the spec 209 00:13:37,830 --> 00:13:43,770 cannot be fucked with what is the spec? That RSS 2.0? 210 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,790 Yeah, but emails not but that email is not a required tag, 211 00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:50,850 or this you don't have to put it in you can not put anything in 212 00:13:50,850 --> 00:13:54,570 at all, then find that leave it out, you get no spam. Yeah. And 213 00:13:54,570 --> 00:13:59,010 then you and you can't then you can't certify or no claim your 214 00:13:59,010 --> 00:14:00,210 feed off shit. 215 00:14:00,870 --> 00:14:06,720 But as I vehemently disagree, okay, in that, here's, here's 216 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:14,160 why a bunch of reasons. Number one legal, because if you have 217 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,490 to validate an email, then you have to store it in some way. 218 00:14:18,060 --> 00:14:23,910 And once you do that, then you are then you have to start 219 00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:26,670 following things like GDPR and that kind of thing with personal 220 00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:31,470 content. For legal reason. It's much cleaner if you can just 221 00:14:31,470 --> 00:14:35,100 avoid ever dealing with an email address and only deal with some 222 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:41,670 sort of app. You know, handshake. I think that makes 223 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,500 that makes the the O auth. Or app handshake validation process 224 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,030 a lot easier to deal with. For people who don't want to have to 225 00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:56,850 deal with regulation. That would be the first one that justified 226 00:14:56,850 --> 00:15:05,490 the second one is that with This could be combined, this, this 227 00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:10,080 can actually make, make it easier to do other things. Also, 228 00:15:10,140 --> 00:15:14,280 if you have a pass through sort of handshakes situation. One of 229 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,170 the things that we've been talking about for a while is a 230 00:15:16,170 --> 00:15:20,280 sort of an openness subscription mechanism where you can allow 231 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:26,520 people to claim to claim a subscription to a feed. And I 232 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,290 was looking through pod pass. Now, that's a spec that was 233 00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:37,260 designed. It came at a radio public. And I'm not sure who the 234 00:15:37,260 --> 00:15:43,740 actual, like creator of it was. But it was, let's see who who 235 00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:47,610 was it. I think Mike Kane never recipt sent this to me 236 00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:52,650 originally. In because we were talking about as Jake Shapiro 237 00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:55,470 who's now at Apple, but he was at Radio public when he when 238 00:15:55,470 --> 00:15:59,460 this came out. This is a protocol for how to do the same 239 00:15:59,460 --> 00:16:06,000 sort of handshake thing where you can say, Okay, here's a 240 00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:08,910 here's a subscription only podcast, there's this private 241 00:16:08,910 --> 00:16:11,670 podcast that I want to subscribe to. I've actually already 242 00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:14,280 subscribed to it. I subscribe to it on this other on this other 243 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:14,850 service. 244 00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:22,680 Okay, stop. Yes, we can agree on this very easily. It's just an 245 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,640 addition and not a replacement. Yes. Okay. I'm good with that. I 246 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,530 love having my email address in my feed. I love getting the 247 00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:36,180 problem here is not the spam. The problem is a competitor 248 00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:43,230 spams spam to accompany spam to competitors. Clients targeted 249 00:16:43,230 --> 00:16:48,090 them specifically, which is now considered, I guess, not 250 00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:53,550 gentlemanly. But that's that's that's when it became a problem 251 00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:57,120 not for the 1000s of spams I've received that no one ever 252 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,990 complained until it became a problem because people are doing 253 00:17:01,350 --> 00:17:04,680 guerilla marketing with it. Correct. 254 00:17:05,820 --> 00:17:08,910 From the standpoint Well, that's 255 00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:11,760 what the story, the story the story started there. The story 256 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,420 started with, oh my god, I can't believe a caste spammed all of 257 00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:18,570 bus sprouts customers and said You should leave Buzzsprout 258 00:17:19,169 --> 00:17:23,129 Well, no, yes. No, that is that. That's, that's that's the story 259 00:17:23,129 --> 00:17:26,399 though. That is the story. That's what that's but but if 260 00:17:26,399 --> 00:17:31,799 you brought if you step back and broaden it out to like, in not 261 00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:36,539 just that story, which was a douche move to do. But if you 262 00:17:36,809 --> 00:17:39,899 step back and say, Okay, now what is like you call it a 263 00:17:39,899 --> 00:17:43,919 problem? You said, it's not a problem, unless, you know, until 264 00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:46,619 it becomes this guerilla marketing thing? Well, depends 265 00:17:46,619 --> 00:17:50,069 on a defined problem, but can also be dental issues. This 266 00:17:50,099 --> 00:17:50,969 check er, but 267 00:17:50,970 --> 00:17:53,730 it's subject I hadn't thought about GDPR. But its objective. 268 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,800 What is it what a problem is, I'm all for an additional 269 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,140 namespace tag with authentication. I have no 270 00:18:01,140 --> 00:18:04,170 problem with that. I just had a problem with the stories like 271 00:18:04,170 --> 00:18:06,720 everyone's whining about this. And I love the guys at 272 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,720 Buzzsprout as much as I love everybody else. But it's like, 273 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:15,270 okay, it really wasn't a huge news item and issue until a cast 274 00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:19,530 just just why don't we the new story is attention attention, a 275 00:18:19,530 --> 00:18:24,120 cast or assholes. That's that's the new story. That's it, and 276 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,850 then everything else is bliss. So I just want to move it away 277 00:18:26,850 --> 00:18:32,790 from the email and say, why don't we just create a better 278 00:18:32,790 --> 00:18:35,280 way to authenticate because there's all these benefits? 279 00:18:35,610 --> 00:18:37,020 Maybe that's all I care about? 280 00:18:37,710 --> 00:18:41,160 Well, a cast said that they love open RSS. That's what they've 281 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,750 been saying for a while. And now we know what 282 00:18:43,530 --> 00:18:46,920 Yeah, but when I'm saying is free email address, what I'm 283 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,180 saying is, is that every company spams me and, you know, Spotify 284 00:18:51,180 --> 00:18:55,770 spans me and Google spans me and Amazon spams me. And I don't 285 00:18:55,770 --> 00:19:00,090 mind because I might not have found out about this wonderful 286 00:19:00,090 --> 00:19:04,260 opportunity. You know, it's pretty damn targeted. 287 00:19:05,970 --> 00:19:07,320 What are you talking about in 288 00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:11,730 emails? Emails based upon what's in my feed? You know, it's like, 289 00:19:11,730 --> 00:19:14,310 hey, podcasts are like and I know exactly how they got my 290 00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:14,880 email. 291 00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:19,170 I understand where you're coming from because I understand where 292 00:19:19,170 --> 00:19:22,860 you're coming from the big the big thing is that like, you 293 00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:25,620 can't stop spam ever so just I mean, there's a little bit of 294 00:19:25,620 --> 00:19:30,300 like, why even try involved here and you if you get utility out 295 00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:33,270 of it? Why? I mean, why are you trying to fight you know, put 296 00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:34,350 your finger in the dam, 297 00:19:34,410 --> 00:19:39,150 but, but also if you really want to get my attention, send me a 298 00:19:39,150 --> 00:19:39,930 booster gram. 299 00:19:41,130 --> 00:19:41,910 No, yes, sir. 300 00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:43,650 That's what eight cash should be doing. 301 00:19:45,090 --> 00:19:48,450 Open up breeze. This is the booster speaking 302 00:19:48,450 --> 00:19:51,150 of the US, shall we bring our guest into the boardroom right 303 00:19:51,150 --> 00:19:53,070 now? Because he's been sitting patiently about on the 304 00:19:53,070 --> 00:19:55,560 sidelines. It's very late where he lives. Oh, do 305 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,110 we have a guest? Yes, please, by all means. 306 00:19:58,110 --> 00:20:00,180 We have a guest ladies and gentlemen that we've tried To 307 00:20:00,180 --> 00:20:03,870 get him on before he's very elusive. We're not sure if he's 308 00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:07,410 a founder, the co founder, the CEO, or he's actually all the 309 00:20:07,410 --> 00:20:10,770 dev guys on the GitHub as well. Please say hello to Roy 310 00:20:10,770 --> 00:20:12,780 scheinfeld from breeze. 311 00:20:13,230 --> 00:20:14,790 Hey, hey, Dave. 312 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:20,340 Hey, Roy. I've been trying to get you on forever, dude. 313 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,620 Come on. That's not fair guys, you know? 314 00:20:23,370 --> 00:20:27,420 No, of course. But who said we're fair? We're podcasters. 315 00:20:28,170 --> 00:20:37,800 Right? Israel, Israel based. So breeze is unique amongst all of 316 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,060 the podcast apps, that and podcasting 2.0 apps, I'll say, 317 00:20:42,450 --> 00:20:46,230 in the sense that y'all were a wallet first, and then add in 318 00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:50,190 podcasting later, which is very different from what most of the 319 00:20:50,190 --> 00:20:55,290 podcasting, people know apps have done. I guess, I want to 320 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,880 know, first of all, like, how, just how has it gone? How has 321 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,870 the you committed a lot of deaf time to this to put podcasting 322 00:21:03,870 --> 00:21:07,800 into the breeze wallet? And I mean, have you gotten a decent 323 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:08,430 return on it? 324 00:21:08,490 --> 00:21:12,570 Hold on a second. Before you before you answer that, Roy. I 325 00:21:12,570 --> 00:21:15,000 don't even remember how we connected and how you started 326 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,910 doing it anymore. Do you mind Dave? We just we just get the 327 00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:19,500 because do you remember Dave? 328 00:21:19,770 --> 00:21:24,990 I see. I didn't know I think someone connected us, Adam. And 329 00:21:24,990 --> 00:21:29,370 we got on the call. And I saw the light and started walking on 330 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,520 that podcasting. 2.0 That's how it happened. 331 00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:34,530 Okay, what if it was Paul ever saying 332 00:21:34,530 --> 00:21:37,050 But was it Paul? It might have been? I think it was Paul. 333 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,380 Maybe? Yeah, yeah, perhaps. Okay. 334 00:21:40,770 --> 00:21:45,060 Sorry. Back to the question. How's it going? 335 00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:48,780 Hey, I was doing good. By the way. I don't quote breezy today. 336 00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:54,330 And I never called Brazil wallet even when it was just a wallet. 337 00:21:56,370 --> 00:21:56,850 Yeah, 338 00:21:57,180 --> 00:21:59,490 it's a point of sale application. Is that fair? 339 00:22:00,060 --> 00:22:03,270 No, not really, it. I didn't call it the world even before we 340 00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:04,140 had the point of sale. 341 00:22:04,590 --> 00:22:06,240 It's a portable lightning node. 342 00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:12,030 Technically, but for users, I hate the word wallet in the 343 00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:16,260 context of lightning. I really hate the term wallet. It's so 344 00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:21,240 technical. And so what I want to do with breeze and what we think 345 00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:24,480 we all in the lightning ecosystem should do. We want to 346 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,320 get adoption, right and no one calls Venmo a wallet, no one 347 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,160 calls PayPal the wallet. People don't care about wallet, people 348 00:22:32,190 --> 00:22:38,220 want X pay for stuff extra. So I see raised as a payment service. 349 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,570 So you can ask me why I added podcasting 2.0 to our payment 350 00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:44,520 service, but not worldwide. 351 00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:48,870 Okay. All right. I understand fully that that makes perfect 352 00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:52,410 sense. Because if you now, you understand why you add 353 00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:54,810 podcasting to it, because podcasting needs a payment 354 00:22:54,810 --> 00:22:57,210 service. And so you think that was a perfect compliment. 355 00:22:57,869 --> 00:23:02,729 Exactly. Exactly. So, so breezy is all about like creating peer 356 00:23:02,729 --> 00:23:07,499 to peer economy. And that's why we started like the idea behind 357 00:23:07,499 --> 00:23:11,999 breweries was to help a Bitcoin do this transformation from a 358 00:23:11,999 --> 00:23:15,719 store of value to a medium of change. And what we tried to do 359 00:23:15,719 --> 00:23:21,359 with bridge is to explore the ways people can interact in a 360 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,379 peer to peer manner with with the lightning economy. So we 361 00:23:25,379 --> 00:23:29,849 started with like, a generic send receive payments, where 362 00:23:29,849 --> 00:23:32,519 people can send payments and receive payments from their 363 00:23:32,729 --> 00:23:36,659 friends. Then we added the point of sale interface, because 364 00:23:36,929 --> 00:23:41,279 lightning enables everyone to become a merchant without having 365 00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:47,069 a bank account. And then after our there our meeting with Adam, 366 00:23:47,069 --> 00:23:54,149 after Adam was so charming, and we added we added first get 367 00:23:54,209 --> 00:23:57,869 podcasting 2.0 I think a podcasting 2.0 is a is a is a is 368 00:23:57,869 --> 00:24:02,519 an amazing use case for the lightning economy. And yeah, I 369 00:24:02,519 --> 00:24:02,669 was 370 00:24:02,670 --> 00:24:09,720 gonna ask you most want to be payment services. Unlike yours, 371 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,850 which is the payment service. They, they have a point of sale 372 00:24:14,850 --> 00:24:19,680 app. And in fact, a lot of I think the the first applications 373 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,620 of any lightning app that I ever saw was point of sale and 374 00:24:22,620 --> 00:24:26,970 roulette. Is point of sale being used a lot. 375 00:24:28,260 --> 00:24:36,330 A it's being used in not a lot. I would say like a 10 to 20% of 376 00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:39,510 our users use breeze as the point of sale, but there are the 377 00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:45,960 most heavy users. So the people that are relying on breeze as a 378 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,050 point of sale are our most active users and our most 379 00:24:49,050 --> 00:24:54,120 demanding users. And I think a lot of our traffic. Our traffic 380 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,720 is really associated with our point of sale interface. 381 00:24:57,869 --> 00:25:02,069 I also see a lot of ln URL activity in your groups? 382 00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:08,010 A Yeah, yeah. Because you're like thinking it's a great 383 00:25:08,010 --> 00:25:12,300 addition to what a web Web Services has to offer. And 384 00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:16,440 people are using it just a better user experience for 385 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,580 interacting with lightning. 386 00:25:18,270 --> 00:25:21,810 Do you use your breeze for to listening to all your pods? 387 00:25:21,810 --> 00:25:22,740 Podcasts? 388 00:25:24,510 --> 00:25:25,740 connected to a secret? 389 00:25:25,770 --> 00:25:27,210 You don't listen to podcast? Do you? 390 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,770 I don't know. I don't know. 391 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:32,550 Your reader. Okay. Yeah. Well, 392 00:25:32,550 --> 00:25:36,450 you're also very good writer. Ben always looking forward to a 393 00:25:36,450 --> 00:25:40,140 good ROI article, because I know I can just sit down with coffee 394 00:25:40,140 --> 00:25:43,050 and read for, you know, 30 minutes because you have nice 395 00:25:43,050 --> 00:25:46,710 long well thought out. Well thought out articles and one you 396 00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:48,510 dropped yesterday is no exception. 397 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,780 Yeah, the liquid lightning in liquidity network? 398 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,190 Yeah, there's one thing in here you said that, that I 399 00:25:56,190 --> 00:26:00,540 highlighted last night as I was reading through it. And he said, 400 00:26:00,540 --> 00:26:03,270 When routing nodes optimize their local liquidity 401 00:26:03,270 --> 00:26:06,180 allocation, everyone benefits from a better network, 402 00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:09,420 collective benefits result from the decisions of self regarding 403 00:26:09,420 --> 00:26:12,960 individuals. And you were saying this in sort of context of like 404 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,680 Adam Smith and the invisible hand of the market. But this, 405 00:26:17,250 --> 00:26:21,090 this feels like the struggle right now. And I want to get 406 00:26:21,090 --> 00:26:24,870 your thought on this. It feels like there's this sort of the 407 00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:28,950 Lightning Network has grown really fast. And whenever you 408 00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:33,270 have sort of hyper growth over a short period of time, it really, 409 00:26:34,020 --> 00:26:37,770 people have to stop and breathe and figure out what is going on. 410 00:26:37,890 --> 00:26:40,740 And I think what has happening now from my sense, is that 411 00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:44,430 there's an sort of allocation, liquidity allocation discovery 412 00:26:44,430 --> 00:26:47,160 process going on, where people are trying to figure out what 413 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,640 their channels need to look like, how much the to charge, 414 00:26:50,730 --> 00:26:52,980 all these kinds of things. Is that is that kind of what you're 415 00:26:52,980 --> 00:26:53,730 trying to say there? 416 00:26:54,090 --> 00:26:57,720 Yes, yes, exactly. So you You're, you're calling me out. 417 00:26:58,890 --> 00:27:04,290 Kind of the reason that I wrote the article is really because I, 418 00:27:04,530 --> 00:27:09,660 I think we're seeing lately there's, there's a growing 419 00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:14,880 number of percentage of failed payments. And it's not because 420 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,950 nodes are not connected, nodes are connected. But if there's a 421 00:27:19,950 --> 00:27:22,380 payment, and then if there's a lightning payment, and the 422 00:27:22,380 --> 00:27:26,250 payment has failed, meaning there's a route, but if the 423 00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:30,450 payment didn't went through the route, it means liquidity was 424 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,130 mis allocated. And the reason the reason I wrote this article 425 00:27:35,130 --> 00:27:39,570 is to show that we need to start thinking about lightning as 426 00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:43,980 liquidity network. And people need to start thinking about 427 00:27:44,010 --> 00:27:48,420 better ways to allocate their liquidity and the how is the 428 00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:52,890 challenge. And also, that's another reason for re writing 429 00:27:52,890 --> 00:27:57,300 this article, I want the I want a more better tooling to be in 430 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,410 place, and we don't have splicing layer, a peer swap, and 431 00:28:01,410 --> 00:28:04,710 you can drill down to the tools to the specific clip you guys 432 00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:05,010 want. 433 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,160 I need to ask a question about this, because I'm glad you 434 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,240 brought it up, Dave. So I'm kind of in charge of the podcast 435 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:19,380 index node. So I set it up. So I was early on and the idea we 436 00:28:19,380 --> 00:28:25,290 always had was, we need to make these micro payments work. And, 437 00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:30,930 and the majority of users who come into podcasting 2.0 And you 438 00:28:30,930 --> 00:28:33,960 know, we're such early days, there's so many pioneers and 439 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,060 very brave people who are buying raspberry pies and setting up 440 00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:43,830 nodes and loading Umbral onto old laptops and, and people are 441 00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:48,000 really, really excited. And the biggest problem we of course, 442 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,450 hit when someone, you know, is finally synced to the blockchain 443 00:28:51,450 --> 00:28:55,380 for 57 hours. And they're like, Okay, I know I've opened a 444 00:28:55,380 --> 00:28:57,990 channel. And then of course, they have no inbound liquidity. 445 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,520 And what podcast index has done consistently is every Satoshi we 446 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:08,490 get, we save, and we turn into liquidity. And this has been 447 00:29:08,490 --> 00:29:10,740 something Dave and I've been talking about also in the board 448 00:29:10,740 --> 00:29:13,800 meeting for the past couple of weeks. You know, basically 449 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,560 someone buys a, you know, someone installs Umbral on on an 450 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,420 old laptop, and we're putting, you know, $100 of liquidity to 451 00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:29,640 that person, which is, it turns out is not very efficient. And 452 00:29:29,670 --> 00:29:33,210 the way I've been looking at making it more and this your 453 00:29:33,210 --> 00:29:36,210 article is really good, and I really appreciate it because 454 00:29:36,390 --> 00:29:42,270 what it told me was I'm on the right path of making our kind of 455 00:29:42,270 --> 00:29:46,740 local issue work for us. Whereas I've always been concerned 456 00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:50,730 about, you know, like, like the connections more as you said 457 00:29:50,730 --> 00:29:55,050 more than the liquidity. And so I made some fundamental changes 458 00:29:55,050 --> 00:30:01,650 as an experiment because we route a lot But we were not 459 00:30:01,650 --> 00:30:06,150 making a lot of money. And I want to make sure the 460 00:30:06,150 --> 00:30:10,650 microtransactions go through cleanly and easily. So, you 461 00:30:10,650 --> 00:30:13,890 know, the, the interim changes I've made is I have, because we 462 00:30:13,890 --> 00:30:17,280 also because we're connected, we do have some big channels, you 463 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,170 know, people will be like, Oh, we're just gonna, I'm gonna 464 00:30:19,170 --> 00:30:22,080 rebalance through these fuckers over here. And then we have, you 465 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,680 know, all of these, you know, 250, sach, 1000 chats at 466 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,290 channels getting completely screwed, and people don't know 467 00:30:28,290 --> 00:30:31,920 what to do. Exactly. So. So what I've done is I've taken away the 468 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:37,050 base fee of zero, to incentivize the micro payments, and I've 469 00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:45,090 upped the, the, the percentage fee significantly, and that has 470 00:30:45,150 --> 00:30:48,480 that seen what I saw, and I'm not sure it's only been a few 471 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,310 days, channels, almost autumn automagically started to be 472 00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:56,370 better balanced. I don't know why, but it just seems like 473 00:30:56,700 --> 00:31:00,330 probably 30% balanced, better ended by themselves. I didn't do 474 00:31:00,330 --> 00:31:00,810 anything. 475 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,250 And cosy, the channels don't get depleted by the large 476 00:31:05,250 --> 00:31:06,090 transactions. 477 00:31:06,330 --> 00:31:13,140 Right. And, and we were definitely making more in fees, 478 00:31:13,710 --> 00:31:16,080 which I, which I think is important. And now I have to 479 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,310 kind of figure out and maybe you can help, or we can just talk 480 00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:25,710 about it. You know, do I need to categorize types of users and 481 00:31:25,710 --> 00:31:30,570 their usage and calculate fees based upon them individual 482 00:31:30,570 --> 00:31:34,260 channels? Or is that something I should do across the board? I 483 00:31:34,260 --> 00:31:37,440 mean, it's, it's kind of scary, because I'm at any given moment, 484 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,460 like, will this fee that I'm changing here? Will it make a 485 00:31:41,460 --> 00:31:44,670 payment fail a payment of you know, like 10 SATs? Will it 486 00:31:44,670 --> 00:31:45,600 screw that up? 487 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:54,630 Yeah, I think I think one of the best practices practices is to 488 00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:57,960 analyze the flows like what are the flows that you want to 489 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,410 controls? What are the flows that you are master must have in 490 00:32:01,410 --> 00:32:06,330 your, in your mind and in like, set the right fees for the for 491 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,610 disclose? I think what you're doing is exactly right. But I 492 00:32:11,610 --> 00:32:14,700 think let's let's take a step back, like rebalancing is bad. 493 00:32:16,260 --> 00:32:19,740 No one should rebalance their channels using the existing 494 00:32:19,740 --> 00:32:23,640 tools. That's that's the, that's the honest truth. Because when 495 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,480 you rebalance your channels inside the Lightning Network, it 496 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,550 means you're screwing up the liquidity 497 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,270 of everybody have lots of people. And but we get we get in 498 00:32:33,270 --> 00:32:36,150 that loop a lot. And it's, and it's usually people with really 499 00:32:36,150 --> 00:32:38,640 good intentions, who all of a sudden, they're sending, you 500 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,420 know, 5 million SATs through a ring of fire, which I'm okay 501 00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:45,360 with all of that. And I think it's fun to do. But then one 502 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,260 thing screws up and then there's all these little nodes of like, 503 00:32:49,290 --> 00:32:50,520 Whoa, where did it go? 504 00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:55,050 Exactly, exactly. And I'm doing that as well, like with the 505 00:32:55,050 --> 00:32:59,790 breeze node. But that's because of lack of better tools. Yeah, I 506 00:32:59,790 --> 00:33:03,450 think I think I'm pointing out in the article, one of the tools 507 00:33:03,450 --> 00:33:07,470 that I think needs to be in place is a pure swap. And appear 508 00:33:07,470 --> 00:33:13,020 swap is a way to rebalance your channels by doing an off chain 509 00:33:13,020 --> 00:33:18,450 to an on chain swap. And then you're not damaging the 510 00:33:18,450 --> 00:33:21,570 liquidity of other channels, because there's no like circular 511 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,020 rebalancing going on. He's just, you're controlling a specific 512 00:33:25,020 --> 00:33:28,230 channel, and you can say, I'm moving liquidity to the other 513 00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:31,200 side of the channel. How do I do that by doing an on chain 514 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:31,890 transaction? 515 00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:35,400 Right now that that's doable? Correct me if I'm wrong, but 516 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:40,260 that's doable? Really? Because? And I'm not sure if I'm talking 517 00:33:40,260 --> 00:33:43,200 to people who may not understand lightning a whole lot, either is 518 00:33:44,910 --> 00:33:47,820 if I'm not mistaken, then every lightning every lightning 519 00:33:47,820 --> 00:33:53,070 transaction is a valid on chain transaction also. So that on 520 00:33:53,070 --> 00:33:56,550 chain transaction can be you can, you could theoretically, if 521 00:33:56,550 --> 00:34:01,470 the tooling and everything were correct, you could bump that you 522 00:34:01,470 --> 00:34:05,910 could go go on chain, enough to do that liquidity swap 523 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,940 temporarily, without having to bring the whole channel down and 524 00:34:08,940 --> 00:34:09,870 back up. Is that right? 525 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,490 No, not really, it's true that any lightning transaction is 526 00:34:14,490 --> 00:34:18,390 also a Bitcoin transaction. But it also it only takes effect 527 00:34:18,390 --> 00:34:22,230 when you close the channel. If you want to keep the channel 528 00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:25,980 open, the way the way to do this off chain to launch in 529 00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:30,840 transaction is by doing a swap that's that's one option and an 530 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,960 atomic swap. But in atomic swap, you're not closing the channel 531 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,380 in or you're not using the same lightning transaction as the on 532 00:34:37,380 --> 00:34:41,460 chain transaction. What you're actually doing is sending a 533 00:34:41,460 --> 00:34:45,330 lightning transaction you you do you're using a concept called 534 00:34:45,330 --> 00:34:48,330 the hold invoice meaning you are not settling the lightning 535 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,890 transaction until the in another different completely different 536 00:34:53,130 --> 00:34:57,030 on chain transaction is executed. Once you know this on 537 00:34:57,030 --> 00:35:00,270 chain transaction is executed. You settle the Lightning 538 00:35:00,270 --> 00:35:03,120 transaction. It's called in an atomic swap. 539 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,390 Right? So, yeah, you could also you could also just walk over to 540 00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:09,570 someone's house, give them 50 bucks and say, shoot some SATs 541 00:35:09,570 --> 00:35:09,990 my way. 542 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,100 Exactly. Okay, exactly. But you do that in a in a trustless 543 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,200 manner. Right? That's, that's the thing with with, with an 544 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,430 atomic swap, by the way, Breeze has a built in atomic swap 545 00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:28,740 inside the app, when you receive on chain transaction in breeze, 546 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,760 it's actually in an on chain to off chain swap. And when you 547 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,750 send the funds outside the wallet to Ben on change, but 548 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,310 also on chain address, we're doing an off chain to the to on 549 00:35:41,310 --> 00:35:45,780 chain swap, and everything is trustless. But you don't have to 550 00:35:45,780 --> 00:35:51,690 trust breeze in that, in that. In that scenario, it's called 551 00:35:51,690 --> 00:35:58,560 the submarine swaps. And F every node every node that the thing 552 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,630 is in the problem is that not nodes don't expose the service, 553 00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:07,170 meaning they don't have an atomic swap service to expose to 554 00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:11,280 other nodes. So no one can actually do that. And there's a 555 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:17,250 new new tool developed by block stream called gear swap, it's 556 00:36:17,310 --> 00:36:21,390 basically an extension to your node, where you can set up 557 00:36:21,390 --> 00:36:25,230 another service on top of your lightning node where you you 558 00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:29,940 tell other nodes in the network, you can swap with me and when 559 00:36:29,940 --> 00:36:33,900 you swap with them in you have a direct channel with them, it 560 00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,830 actually moved the liquidity to the other side of the channel 561 00:36:37,950 --> 00:36:41,850 and now other channels are part of this process is just taking 562 00:36:41,850 --> 00:36:46,110 this liquidity and sending this liquidity on chain. So I think I 563 00:36:46,110 --> 00:36:52,650 think we need to like that is a must. And another tool that is a 564 00:36:52,650 --> 00:36:56,760 must in order to optimize liquidity is slicing. So slicing 565 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,770 is a way to take a channel and change its capacity without 566 00:37:01,770 --> 00:37:08,370 closing it. So I can fix it or or decrease liquidity in an 567 00:37:08,370 --> 00:37:13,560 existing channel without closing it. And reallocating liquidity 568 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:14,100 elsewhere. 569 00:37:15,570 --> 00:37:18,750 So does that spin is that that involves having a new address 570 00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:21,840 that right? On the entree side? 571 00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:24,600 Yeah, yes. 572 00:37:24,810 --> 00:37:29,760 Yeah. Okay. So is this I guess, from what I've seen of splicing, 573 00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:33,270 I think, see, Lightning is the only one that has some version 574 00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:35,490 of that at the moment. Is that right? No 575 00:37:35,490 --> 00:37:40,140 one is version of splicing at the moment. A I think Casey 576 00:37:40,140 --> 00:37:44,490 lightning our most active on developing it, they have like a 577 00:37:44,490 --> 00:37:49,830 an initial version of it, they see lightning develop dual 578 00:37:49,830 --> 00:37:53,490 funded channel. And dofollow channel is kind of a basic 579 00:37:53,490 --> 00:37:59,040 version of spicing it but it requires more development in 580 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,480 order to add lightning threads by sync to see lightning, but I 581 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,150 think they will even hear it. I think they will be the first 582 00:38:06,210 --> 00:38:06,810 limitation to 583 00:38:07,110 --> 00:38:10,890 this. I'm hearing a lot about see lightning. And just so 584 00:38:10,890 --> 00:38:15,390 everybody knows. Lightning labs doesn't control the Lightning 585 00:38:15,390 --> 00:38:19,410 Network. Although you'd think they do. They think they do. 586 00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:24,870 Well, they have Lightning as a handle in Twitter, right? 587 00:38:26,730 --> 00:38:32,340 Well, that says so it's good for something. What are the main 588 00:38:32,340 --> 00:38:36,360 differences? See, lightning is a different implementation. What 589 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,750 are the main differences? What is it? I mean, I've seen it now 590 00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:44,130 show up. I think the new version of the raspy blitz has both ln D 591 00:38:44,130 --> 00:38:48,360 and C lightning in it. What are the some of the main differences 592 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,910 or benefits of one over the other? And how would that maybe 593 00:38:50,910 --> 00:38:52,080 affect podcasting? 594 00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:59,880 So that's a great question. So I think the the there are three 595 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,900 four major limitations in lightning and the main 596 00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:08,280 difference. There's a couple of differences between them. Mainly 597 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,390 the programming language C, lightning is written in C and 598 00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:20,490 lnd. Go a the asking implementation is written in 599 00:39:20,490 --> 00:39:21,000 Scala, 600 00:39:21,299 --> 00:39:24,479 ACI And Q. That's the French guys. Yes. 601 00:39:25,530 --> 00:39:31,650 And the end, there's a daily K guys, a was for writing in a 602 00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:34,860 lender, a lightning lighter in rust. So I think that's the 603 00:39:34,860 --> 00:39:42,150 major like implementations today. The lightning, I think 604 00:39:42,180 --> 00:39:49,410 there are very, they're trying to be very efficient. So from a 605 00:39:49,410 --> 00:39:54,450 performance standpoint, a rusty Russell who's developing is part 606 00:39:54,450 --> 00:39:58,380 of the silicon development team. He was doing the networking 607 00:39:58,380 --> 00:40:03,360 stuff back in the day on Linux. He's very knowledgeable about 608 00:40:03,870 --> 00:40:08,400 performance, memory, all the stuff they're very memory 609 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:14,670 efficient, ever very networking efficient. And, and they're 610 00:40:14,670 --> 00:40:17,250 they're putting a lot of emphasis on that. But they're 611 00:40:17,250 --> 00:40:25,350 also I think, a trying to be as open and standard as much as 612 00:40:25,350 --> 00:40:30,060 possible. So they're always they're always like a cutting 613 00:40:30,060 --> 00:40:33,300 edge when it comes to specifications and 614 00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:37,050 standardization, for example, they're trying to push a new 615 00:40:37,050 --> 00:40:40,980 startup called Bolt 12. That will, that will be in addition 616 00:40:40,980 --> 00:40:47,700 to both 11 where people will be able to send payments to other 617 00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:51,450 without invoice without an invoice. That's the basic use 618 00:40:51,450 --> 00:40:52,560 case of both well, 619 00:40:52,590 --> 00:40:56,250 except that it won't be key send them won't rely upon the same 620 00:40:56,250 --> 00:40:58,560 type of luck to get through. 621 00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:07,950 Yes, exactly. So yeah, so a case and by the way, the l&d was the 622 00:41:07,950 --> 00:41:10,980 first to implement, he said, and I'm glad they did, because they 623 00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:17,340 unlocked all the use cases of podcasting. 2.0 is just one 624 00:41:17,340 --> 00:41:25,320 example. But other use cases as well. A now there's an and they 625 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,800 replaced keys and add the decrease and with the ANP 626 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,700 implementation, but it didn't try to push it as part of the 627 00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:36,930 lightning standard. Anything anything that will be successful 628 00:41:36,930 --> 00:41:41,730 and well adopted, as there has to be inspiration has to be in 629 00:41:41,730 --> 00:41:45,900 the standard thing has to be in the spec and see lightning are 630 00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:49,740 trying to push it. Both will see lightning are the only one to 631 00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:54,840 implement dual funded channels. See, Lightning has issues, I 632 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,580 think, luckily, there's a reason most of the nodes are running 633 00:41:59,610 --> 00:42:03,420 lnd. And I think one of the main constraints in see lightning was 634 00:42:03,420 --> 00:42:06,720 the fact that they didn't support multiple channels per 635 00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:13,650 peer, meaning you can only open one channel per peer. So so 636 00:42:13,650 --> 00:42:18,180 there's a reason and most of the nodes are running. l&d. It's not 637 00:42:18,180 --> 00:42:21,810 just documentation, not just tooling, but it's also like, the 638 00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:25,740 weird constraints that they see lightning had. I think they're 639 00:42:25,740 --> 00:42:27,420 gonna prove that. I don't 640 00:42:28,500 --> 00:42:31,950 know. But breezes breeze is based on lnd. Right? 641 00:42:32,490 --> 00:42:37,950 Yeah, yeah. But yeah, Bri is based on l&d. The reason bridges 642 00:42:37,950 --> 00:42:42,090 is based on melodies, because trees runs a node inside of your 643 00:42:42,090 --> 00:42:46,350 mobile device. And in the C lightning implementation. I 644 00:42:46,350 --> 00:42:49,650 don't know if you know that you probably know that, that. It's 645 00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:55,110 like the Unix Linux architecture of the old running processes, 646 00:42:55,140 --> 00:43:00,000 like a pass process. Yeah. So one process spawns another 647 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,780 process, and you don't have these multi process capabilities 648 00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:09,570 in mobile. So we actually couldn't use C lightning as part 649 00:43:09,570 --> 00:43:16,500 of our stack, because we had to turn a l&d into a library. So we 650 00:43:16,620 --> 00:43:21,510 it was possible to take the lnd limitation and create a library 651 00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:24,510 out of it. But it was impossible to do that for see lightning 652 00:43:24,510 --> 00:43:28,080 because of this multi process architecture that they use. 653 00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:31,230 It's really quite amazing what Brees is doing. I mean, you 654 00:43:31,230 --> 00:43:36,180 know, aside from the from like a key Send Receive, which is not 655 00:43:36,180 --> 00:43:39,720 possible on mobile for multiple reasons. I mean, it really is 656 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,660 fun to just drop down the command line. Sometimes it's 657 00:43:42,660 --> 00:43:45,180 like, I check routes and everything a breeze really 658 00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:49,350 becomes my toolbox. And just to see if everything and it feels 659 00:43:49,350 --> 00:43:52,710 really good to have that kind of access to to your full node, but 660 00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:56,640 it is kind of freakish. Now that's not your general use 661 00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,180 case. I'm sure him is like, Hey, I can't wait to do a route check 662 00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:05,370 in my breeze. That's something that that's without a doubt 663 00:44:05,370 --> 00:44:09,660 there's it's kind of fun, not fun. It's interesting to watch. 664 00:44:09,660 --> 00:44:14,430 You know, we resolve ideas and thoughts and disputes all in a 665 00:44:14,430 --> 00:44:17,730 Mastadon setting. I'm not I think I don't know exactly how 666 00:44:17,730 --> 00:44:20,250 this goes in the in the lightning development world. But 667 00:44:20,250 --> 00:44:23,190 there's lots of rumblings and there's people's getting you 668 00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:25,770 getting kind of nasty with each other and a little bit of a 669 00:44:25,770 --> 00:44:30,990 flame flame war, I guess what? So what are the real problems? 670 00:44:30,990 --> 00:44:34,140 And are they problems we need to be thinking of is there are 671 00:44:34,140 --> 00:44:37,200 there solutions that are going to get better for for what we're 672 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,440 trying to do with with streaming with value for value streaming 673 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,140 payments. I'm saying that specifically because I see this 674 00:44:43,140 --> 00:44:48,570 working for music and for books and many, many other things. And 675 00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:52,170 yeah, and I guess we should probably move that into the 676 00:44:52,170 --> 00:44:54,510 realm of messaging because that seems to be one of the big 677 00:44:54,510 --> 00:44:55,350 disputes. 678 00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,630 Yes. So I think you touched on a very important point I think 679 00:45:00,810 --> 00:45:04,830 they kind of the externalization process. When we started, by the 680 00:45:04,830 --> 00:45:13,740 way, we started in mid 2018. There was a standard, a standard 681 00:45:13,740 --> 00:45:17,700 process, the whole process in place, it's still in place, but 682 00:45:18,030 --> 00:45:23,760 it moved very quickly, very efficiently in 2018, and in 683 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:32,460 2019. And the process kind of altered in 2020, late 2020, more 684 00:45:32,940 --> 00:45:38,730 2021. And still, it's still it's slow moving. And can you guess 685 00:45:38,730 --> 00:45:41,790 the reason for that? endemic? 686 00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:47,310 It's probably not pandemic, no, no, you don't get you don't get 687 00:45:47,310 --> 00:45:49,080 to use COVID as an excuse. 688 00:45:49,290 --> 00:45:54,150 I was never really Yes. And I'll tell you why. I think because 689 00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:57,480 people are not being able to meet face to face. Yeah. And 690 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:04,200 hash their issues, face to face. I think it creates an issue. And 691 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,000 I think all the stuff that we're seeing now are is is a result of 692 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:14,010 miscommunication that and then there's like kind of a war. All 693 00:46:14,010 --> 00:46:18,390 right now in the last couple of days in Twitter. There wasn't an 694 00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:23,580 email from Alex postwar from l&d and and the rusty and the 695 00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:29,520 Rusty's is calling out to Alex and l&d and the app sync folks 696 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:36,690 are also joined the party we'd calling out l&d And I think I 697 00:46:36,690 --> 00:46:41,040 think I know all the teams that personally, and I think everyone 698 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,580 wants the best for lightning, maybe they have different 699 00:46:44,580 --> 00:46:47,490 constraints and different structures to execute on that. 700 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:52,530 But I think we're talking about good people with a lot of 701 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,290 motivation to contribute and, and, and have an open standard 702 00:46:58,290 --> 00:47:04,350 network. And I think that the reason that it isn't really a 703 00:47:04,890 --> 00:47:09,450 doesn't really hasn't been working lately is because people 704 00:47:09,450 --> 00:47:12,870 are not just not communicating, not working with each other. 705 00:47:13,230 --> 00:47:15,570 yelling at each other on Twitter. That's pretty much the 706 00:47:15,570 --> 00:47:16,740 bottom of the barrel. 707 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,140 Hmm, yeah. But maybe it's a good thing. But the only way is up 708 00:47:22,140 --> 00:47:22,740 from here. 709 00:47:22,890 --> 00:47:27,180 So what what is what is the core problem? I mean, so we because 710 00:47:27,180 --> 00:47:29,490 well, the spec is moving forward, all 12. 711 00:47:30,330 --> 00:47:34,650 Lightning, and lightning Labs is not embracing both 12 as fast as 712 00:47:34,650 --> 00:47:35,460 I think everybody wants. 713 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,820 Okay, yeah. And by the way, if you look at the Alex's email, 714 00:47:41,820 --> 00:47:45,300 Alex basically said, like, maybe we don't need the 715 00:47:45,330 --> 00:47:49,950 standardization, and refreezing. But maybe we don't need 716 00:47:49,950 --> 00:47:53,520 socialization process, because we can pull, push out features 717 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,130 that we want to push and focus on the things we want to push 718 00:47:56,130 --> 00:48:02,040 because we own and we like users, right? 9090 plus percent 719 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,890 of the nodes are running on lnd. So why do we care? 720 00:48:07,530 --> 00:48:08,790 Right, right, right, right. 721 00:48:09,810 --> 00:48:13,050 Again, I'm rephrasing I don't remember the exact words, but I 722 00:48:13,050 --> 00:48:15,900 think that's why people get upset. But if you continue to 723 00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:21,360 read Alex's email, he raises in legitimate concerns around a 724 00:48:21,390 --> 00:48:24,090 around both wealth. And I think that goes back to what you had 725 00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:28,800 asked the Adam regarding messaging, because part of the 726 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,540 bowl will have specification, we need an ability to communicate 727 00:48:33,570 --> 00:48:39,510 between peers. And so there are new types of messaging where 728 00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:42,810 people can send the notes can send other notes and messages. 729 00:48:43,410 --> 00:48:46,710 And Alex is worried. And frankly, I'm worried as well, 730 00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:51,540 that that it these messages will be used as a generic messaging 731 00:48:51,570 --> 00:48:52,350 infrastructure. 732 00:48:52,980 --> 00:48:57,540 Yeah, I think a lot of this goes to me, this argument in the 733 00:48:57,540 --> 00:49:01,230 lightning world, or this debate in the lightning world is very 734 00:49:01,230 --> 00:49:05,460 similar to the to the debate within Bitcoin Core about 735 00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:09,000 whether or not to increase block size, that they feel very 736 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:14,580 similar to me, because there there is, there's a legitimate 737 00:49:14,580 --> 00:49:19,920 concern about you about lightning, because people trying 738 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,640 to stuff things into lightning messaging that really should not 739 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,290 be there. And because as soon as you open up a generic channel 740 00:49:28,290 --> 00:49:32,070 for doing things like binary transfers over Lightning 741 00:49:32,250 --> 00:49:35,940 Network, you mean hey, we're 742 00:49:35,940 --> 00:49:39,180 gonna do podcasting over Lightning Network? Yeah. Can we 743 00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:40,260 do an attachment? 744 00:49:40,770 --> 00:49:43,380 Everybody the reason for that? becomes 745 00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:48,870 COVID Davies, because I think no one wants that, by the way, 746 00:49:48,930 --> 00:49:54,360 like, and there's no single implementation that wants to use 747 00:49:54,390 --> 00:49:58,770 a lightning is a generic messaging platform, or a generic 748 00:49:58,770 --> 00:50:03,120 messaging infrastructure. Not not see lightning, not the ASIC 749 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,980 not l&d and not educate, no one wants that there needs to be a 750 00:50:08,010 --> 00:50:11,100 to some degree messaging capabilities in order to enable 751 00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:16,770 payment features. So we need to execute that very carefully. And 752 00:50:16,770 --> 00:50:22,290 we need to add that a to the, to the standard and to the 753 00:50:22,290 --> 00:50:27,990 specification. But we need to make sure this tools in this new 754 00:50:28,260 --> 00:50:31,560 utilities aren't being abused. A 755 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:37,470 is isn't. Isn't booster gramming by itself kind of abusing that 756 00:50:37,470 --> 00:50:37,770 then? 757 00:50:38,430 --> 00:50:40,860 No, I don't think so. I think booster grams is a great 758 00:50:40,860 --> 00:50:45,960 addition to lightning because it uses something called TLV. Until 759 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,880 V is is an extension to a payment, you can't boost without 760 00:50:50,910 --> 00:50:56,970 payment. Right? Correct. So I think he can utilize the core. 761 00:50:57,900 --> 00:51:01,770 I'm liking the I'm reading. I'm reading the the email now by the 762 00:51:01,770 --> 00:51:04,950 way, it's badass to post somebody's email in a VI 763 00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:08,100 session. That with the numbers on the side. That's pretty cool. 764 00:51:08,850 --> 00:51:12,810 That's that's nerdy right there. But I guess the some of the 765 00:51:12,810 --> 00:51:18,780 dispute is about no cost peer to peer messaging. 766 00:51:20,220 --> 00:51:21,090 Yeah, 767 00:51:21,180 --> 00:51:23,580 again, I don't think there's a To be honest, I don't think 768 00:51:23,580 --> 00:51:28,230 there's a real dispute because no one wants a liking to be used 769 00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:31,410 as a generic messaging infrastructure. And no one wants 770 00:51:31,410 --> 00:51:33,120 lightning to become the new Can I just 771 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,180 say something Roy, every single developer who has been at 772 00:51:36,180 --> 00:51:40,380 podcasting 2.0, who has seen this work, and particularly with 773 00:51:40,380 --> 00:51:43,920 heli pad, the first thing they all want to do is create a reply 774 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,820 button. And that's my intuition, too. It's like, oh, I want to 775 00:51:47,820 --> 00:51:49,440 reply to these messages. 776 00:51:49,799 --> 00:51:53,429 Why not? But you can if you pay for them. I'm fine for you that 777 00:51:53,459 --> 00:51:57,959 because it means that the routing nodes have incentives. 778 00:51:59,069 --> 00:52:00,719 Okay, people need to understand don't 779 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,170 we want that we want people I want people to hit boost me, I 780 00:52:04,170 --> 00:52:07,590 want you to tell me that I suck and send me 10,000 SATs. That's 781 00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:08,850 that's the whole point. 782 00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:12,750 Exactly. Exactly. So that's the reason I like booster gram. And 783 00:52:12,750 --> 00:52:15,990 by the way we what we did in braces to put was to REM is like 784 00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:18,990 the default. The default boost a 785 00:52:18,990 --> 00:52:23,100 very confused, very confusing, Mr. Roy. Okay, do you know how 786 00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:26,520 many times I go to the breeze app and I hold down the button 787 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:32,250 and it goes because I'm thinking a message it's gonna pop up. You 788 00:52:32,250 --> 00:52:35,520 could you bro, you broke my UX brother. I'm like, oh my god, I 789 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,250 just boosted 8000 SATs in one go. 790 00:52:41,490 --> 00:52:43,410 That happens with early adopters that Oh 791 00:52:43,410 --> 00:52:47,490 my God. Every other app that does it exactly the opposite 792 00:52:47,490 --> 00:52:47,940 way. 793 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,470 I wouldn't worry too much about it because they eventually they 794 00:52:55,470 --> 00:52:56,490 do what we do at the 795 00:52:56,490 --> 00:53:01,050 end. Oh, man, did you hear that massage? Shit. Dave, that was 796 00:53:01,050 --> 00:53:05,100 that was That was harsh man. Can you do about the vont? 797 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,420 I think with with with the apps like caliper, I think a booster 798 00:53:09,420 --> 00:53:13,380 gram is really the way to communicate between between 799 00:53:13,380 --> 00:53:17,940 listeners and podcasters. And I think this feature need to be 800 00:53:17,940 --> 00:53:21,300 exposed to that out that was our way to expose it. 801 00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,750 I love that you put it in there. Obviously I'm just I'm just 802 00:53:24,780 --> 00:53:25,890 giving you a hard time. 803 00:53:26,279 --> 00:53:30,179 What? Tell me this though, tell me. One question I have is what? 804 00:53:30,389 --> 00:53:34,769 Why? Why did you limit or decide to limit the booster gram length 805 00:53:34,769 --> 00:53:37,889 to 90 characters? Or was that just a just pick off the top of 806 00:53:37,889 --> 00:53:39,539 your head? Or what was the thinking there? 807 00:53:40,290 --> 00:53:46,350 Is the thinking is again it goes back to are we using Lightning 808 00:53:46,350 --> 00:53:49,740 as the as the messaging platform. I don't want to spam 809 00:53:49,740 --> 00:53:55,680 the network too much with too much data. So so I don't want to 810 00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:01,080 like DDoS attacks and I want to protect a I wanted to protect 811 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:08,070 the day, the infrastructure and the platform. Is that what's 812 00:54:08,070 --> 00:54:11,640 your what's the what's the what's the message? Like? I 813 00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:15,270 listened to the bill at the beginning to the booster gram 814 00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:19,830 that Adam received, I guess maybe we need to increase the 815 00:54:19,830 --> 00:54:20,400 wish to grow. 816 00:54:20,460 --> 00:54:23,850 It's a little short. It's a little short. And yes, yeah. 817 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,930 What what has seen what I've seen a lot is is that the 818 00:54:27,930 --> 00:54:33,300 standard seems to be roughly about the size of a of a Twitter 819 00:54:33,300 --> 00:54:37,740 to Mastadon message like between 250 to 500 characters roughly 820 00:54:37,770 --> 00:54:43,350 okay. 250 is 250 is fine for me, honestly, because on the 821 00:54:43,350 --> 00:54:47,520 receiving end of this stuff, if you give you give people a 822 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:52,200 bucket, they're going to fill it up. And I I agree with you in 823 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,790 the spirit. The spirit of a booster gram is short and I 824 00:54:56,790 --> 00:55:00,990 really love keeping that short but I run now There's something 825 00:55:00,990 --> 00:55:03,840 to be said for what you're doing there because I have literally 826 00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:09,090 boost the grant twice to get my message in. So this not saying 827 00:55:09,090 --> 00:55:12,450 that I'm against the idea of limiting that, because it does 828 00:55:12,450 --> 00:55:14,310 kind of force you into doing it again. 829 00:55:15,870 --> 00:55:20,400 So we did 90 characters, there's no question like, Hey, I'm sure 830 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:26,250 that we can handle it. And I'm not worried about it with 256. 831 00:55:26,250 --> 00:55:30,960 Or I don't know how many characters and I would go and 832 00:55:30,990 --> 00:55:36,150 check with the with l&d and check with, see lightning, what 833 00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:40,350 do they think like if that's a good number to use? Because at 834 00:55:40,350 --> 00:55:43,260 the end of the day, keep in mind, there is additional 835 00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:47,700 information that we send as part of this payment. It's not just 836 00:55:47,700 --> 00:55:51,780 the booster grant, right. It's also the timestamp, the podcast, 837 00:55:51,810 --> 00:55:54,090 the name, the podcasting episode, like 838 00:55:55,170 --> 00:55:58,350 comic comics, or job data, comics or Blogger just sends 839 00:55:58,350 --> 00:56:00,900 entire books with his booster grams, and it screws up 840 00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:01,440 everything. 841 00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:05,490 It was the list of times it was 842 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,400 Yeah, but these these are really quality problems to have. And 843 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,790 I'm kind of enjoying I'm not I'm very much enjoying the 844 00:56:11,790 --> 00:56:16,530 conversation. And it was there was a second part to John 845 00:56:16,530 --> 00:56:20,820 Spurlock was also on pod land. And talking about because you 846 00:56:20,820 --> 00:56:25,620 know, Roy, we're doing cross app comments. And there was actually 847 00:56:26,070 --> 00:56:28,950 a remark made, they said, well, it's not really a good thing. We 848 00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:31,320 already have messaging with booster grams. And you know, 849 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,440 comments may be confusing. And I thought to myself, no, it's two 850 00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:40,320 separate things. It's really, but but I can also see a use 851 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,580 case where, like a super chat on YouTube booster gram show up in 852 00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:49,230 the chat. You know, or maybe there's a way for you, for us to 853 00:56:49,230 --> 00:56:54,000 say, okay, um, maybe, I don't know, maybe you could say, oh, 854 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,340 you have to you have to pay to post here, you know, kind of 855 00:56:56,340 --> 00:57:00,600 like the the Sphinx model, which I don't know if that's 856 00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,070 technically possible, but there's definitely integrations 857 00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:14,070 there, although it's two separate things. Oh. Yeah. No. 858 00:57:14,490 --> 00:57:16,950 Well, I was wondering what you are, if you have any thoughts on 859 00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:17,160 it? 860 00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,240 Oh, me? No. Well, no, I think they're, I think they're two 861 00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,960 separate things. Like, I think like, if I don't know, Roy, if 862 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:30,030 you saw, he probably didn't we we did like a live test. We did 863 00:57:30,030 --> 00:57:30,660 a test. Yeah, 864 00:57:30,660 --> 00:57:33,210 I saw. I'm following them on Twitter. So. 865 00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:40,440 Okay. Yeah. And so we we did that live last Sunday. And what 866 00:57:40,860 --> 00:57:44,070 what Sir Spencer had done, and I don't think it was him. I think 867 00:57:44,070 --> 00:57:51,930 it was a C dubs or something like that. They had created a, a 868 00:57:51,930 --> 00:57:57,870 bot to except to watch the gRPC stream coming out of lnd. And 869 00:57:57,870 --> 00:58:03,210 then as those boosts came into the node, people would boost to 870 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,980 the live stream through a podcast app. And then as that 871 00:58:08,010 --> 00:58:12,210 those boosts came in, it would translate them into an IRC chat. 872 00:58:12,540 --> 00:58:14,280 Message as sexy as hell. 873 00:58:16,020 --> 00:58:19,740 So you end up with what literally it looks exactly like 874 00:58:19,740 --> 00:58:23,160 a YouTube Super Chat, bot. 875 00:58:23,790 --> 00:58:26,580 Little bot with little asterix, like I'm a bot and look at the 876 00:58:26,580 --> 00:58:28,200 here's the message is beautiful. 877 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,750 Yeah. And to me, that's fun. The use case like that is 878 00:58:30,750 --> 00:58:33,690 fundamentally different than something like a cross app 879 00:58:33,690 --> 00:58:36,570 comment, which is meant to be sort of permanent, whereas the 880 00:58:36,570 --> 00:58:39,630 other things are or where the live chat is, like more 881 00:58:39,630 --> 00:58:40,230 ephemeral, 882 00:58:40,290 --> 00:58:42,720 but just shooting from the just shooting from the hip here, just 883 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:47,190 as a nutty idea, since we're looking at Pew pew. Since we're 884 00:58:47,190 --> 00:58:50,850 looking at activity pub. Oh, no, we're not I'm sorry. We are 885 00:58:50,850 --> 00:58:54,810 actively using activity pub for the cross app comments. Is there 886 00:58:54,810 --> 00:59:01,260 a way to tie in paint like a payment portion to that so it 887 00:59:01,260 --> 00:59:05,250 may be totally unnecessary, but I'm just I always enjoyed the 888 00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:12,180 the Sphinx idea of it cost you 10 sets to post a message. Is 889 00:59:12,180 --> 00:59:16,620 there a way to tie in payments into activity pub? Just and 890 00:59:16,620 --> 00:59:18,600 that's more of a lightning question, I guess, than a 891 00:59:18,780 --> 00:59:20,460 podcasting. 2.0 question. 892 00:59:22,170 --> 00:59:24,930 Yeah, I mean, anything with a gateway? You know, you just have 893 00:59:24,930 --> 00:59:29,880 to have some sort of gateway to go in and out. And that's, 894 00:59:29,940 --> 00:59:34,470 that's really where, you know, this is sort of let me let me 895 00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:38,490 back into this because I want I do have a question to Roy that I 896 00:59:38,490 --> 00:59:42,600 think, is kind of has kind of related to this, and it's 897 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,180 something that's been, you know, we've been trying to figure out 898 00:59:45,180 --> 00:59:49,650 and I say what I mean by we is various people I've talked to in 899 00:59:49,650 --> 00:59:55,410 the podcasting world. You know, we've been trying to in this 900 00:59:55,410 --> 00:59:58,680 just kind of keeps coming up, trying to figure out a way to 901 00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:06,600 make all this stuff work where it's legal, you know, legal, and 902 01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:10,740 all the custodian people want to, you're dealing with funds 903 01:00:10,740 --> 01:00:13,740 here you're dealing with with with financial things. And so 904 01:00:14,220 --> 01:00:18,450 like, like braze can't accept keys and payments. So what we've 905 01:00:18,450 --> 01:00:20,250 been left with is things like ln pay. 906 01:00:20,970 --> 01:00:24,840 And custodial versus non custodial. Yeah, the custodial 907 01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,560 versus non custodian. So like, I'm less interested in that sort 908 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,870 of idea, the custodial, non custodial, then just just 909 01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:37,140 there's more, more direct question, which is, Can all of 910 01:00:37,140 --> 01:00:42,840 these things be done long term in a way that doesn't require 911 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:48,510 like custodial liquidity. And what I mean is, like we, for 912 01:00:48,510 --> 01:00:52,260 instance, what Adam described earlier, with the podcast index 913 01:00:52,260 --> 01:00:56,400 node is in order a podcaster, comes online with an Umbral or a 914 01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:00,660 recipe Blitz, and we open up 100,000 side channel to them to 915 01:01:00,660 --> 01:01:04,230 give them some inbound liquidity. And that's fine, 916 01:01:04,620 --> 01:01:09,360 except that it's is not efficient use of liquidity, and 917 01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:16,260 that you end up with a single node that has 150 channels. But, 918 01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,560 you know, the only way I can imagine to get around that is 919 01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,960 through custodial level liquidity where you have 920 01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:23,940 something like Ellen pay, 921 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,150 which has its own problems. During the live, we saw that it 922 01:01:27,150 --> 01:01:29,940 had its own issues of overload. 923 01:01:30,779 --> 01:01:34,019 Yeah. So you bet you need some central thing there that has, 924 01:01:34,019 --> 01:01:37,229 you know, 10 million sets of liquidity. So I think we're 925 01:01:37,229 --> 01:01:37,679 talking to 926 01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,710 the right guy. I think the lightning service providers is 927 01:01:40,710 --> 01:01:42,840 his job, although I don't know what he does. 928 01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,160 I don't I don't do anything. Really? 929 01:01:47,430 --> 01:01:50,880 I know. I still don't know what you do you just on the telegram 930 01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,340 all day, as far as I'm concerned, you may not even work 931 01:01:53,340 --> 01:01:56,010 for Brees would just be their PR guy. 932 01:01:57,510 --> 01:02:06,030 Hey. So yeah, that's I think you're getting to the heart of 933 01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:10,770 the issues with lightning today. By the way, that's the reason I 934 01:02:10,770 --> 01:02:14,100 started breeze, I started breeze because I believe we can create 935 01:02:14,100 --> 01:02:17,940 a noncustodial user experience that is on par with what 936 01:02:17,940 --> 01:02:25,710 custodial solution has to offer. A so. So what I think needs to 937 01:02:25,710 --> 01:02:30,660 happen is this notion of an LSP, enlightening service provider, 938 01:02:30,810 --> 01:02:35,040 kind of the entity that connects and user to network, we need 939 01:02:35,220 --> 01:02:41,730 more or less these. And we need we need competition of LSPs that 940 01:02:41,730 --> 01:02:45,510 will bring the prices down. But for me, let's talk about user 941 01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:49,950 experience. Okay, why why when when you use breeze, what's 942 01:02:50,490 --> 01:02:54,360 what's the main difference between a breeze and a custodial 943 01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,690 wallet? The main difference and the main caveat is you can't 944 01:02:57,690 --> 01:03:02,910 receive an offline payment using breeze. And and that's because 945 01:03:02,910 --> 01:03:08,610 it mobile nodes are mostly offline. That's that's the 946 01:03:08,820 --> 01:03:11,130 that's the that's the real winner. Can 947 01:03:11,130 --> 01:03:13,260 you explain what you mean by an offline payment? 948 01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:18,630 Yeah, so So breeze runs in Node A spark. So let's let's talk 949 01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:22,500 about custodial solutions. Okay, yeah, please, what, when you 950 01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:28,320 have a wallet like a wallet of Satoshi, or let's say, a blue 951 01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:32,820 wallet, and still there, they're switching to LD cake. But let's 952 01:03:32,820 --> 01:03:35,820 talk about their existing offering. It's a it's a 953 01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:40,320 custodial lightning solution, meaning they use one node or 954 01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:44,640 multiple nodes, but they use their own nodes in order in 955 01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:49,950 order to manage the funds and users are just entry in the in a 956 01:03:49,950 --> 01:03:54,540 database somewhere right? So they they know how to split the 957 01:03:54,540 --> 01:03:58,950 funds between different users based on their own accounting 958 01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,640 and they can tap into your funds they can steal your funds they 959 01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:08,910 can do with the with your funds, whatever they like a so you're 960 01:04:08,940 --> 01:04:13,890 trusting them to manage your friends and they have total 961 01:04:13,890 --> 01:04:18,090 control of your funds. And this is for me that that's not 962 01:04:18,090 --> 01:04:19,680 Bitcoin or or worse 963 01:04:19,710 --> 01:04:23,430 or worse, just explain it even even better. You might have 964 01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:26,880 donated $50 to some protests that might have involved some 965 01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:32,310 truckers and the Government of Canada goes and says hey, we 966 01:04:32,310 --> 01:04:35,040 don't want that shit happening. And they go straight to your 967 01:04:35,250 --> 01:04:39,300 your your blue wallet, guys or whatever and they say cut them 968 01:04:39,300 --> 01:04:39,900 all off. 969 01:04:42,750 --> 01:04:44,490 Of course and then they can seize the funds 970 01:04:44,580 --> 01:04:47,280 right which is which is a real thing is my point is that's 971 01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,140 happening right now in our world. 972 01:04:50,010 --> 01:04:52,590 That's happening on exchanges and that will happen 973 01:04:52,590 --> 01:04:56,520 noncustodial wallet, by the way. It's wrong to call custodial 974 01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,860 wallets, wallets, it's more accounts when you talk 975 01:04:58,890 --> 01:05:03,210 about it. So login, you got to log in. Exactly. 976 01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:07,350 So So whenever you have an account, and the your funds in 977 01:05:07,350 --> 01:05:11,130 the account can be seized, I am, I'm not even talking about the 978 01:05:11,130 --> 01:05:16,230 privacy and right and this kind of issues, just like the 979 01:05:16,260 --> 01:05:20,580 custodial party, the having control over your funds. So what 980 01:05:20,580 --> 01:05:26,880 I, what I wish we thought we sought out to do in breeze is to 981 01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,840 provide a noncustodial solution that will be on par in terms of 982 01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:38,670 user experience in terms of when it comes to lightning payments. 983 01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:44,430 So in bridge right now, when you receive funds, we actually open 984 01:05:44,430 --> 01:05:49,830 the channel on the fly to end users. And we use the funds that 985 01:05:49,830 --> 01:05:55,410 we receive in order to fund this channel. So unlike what you guys 986 01:05:55,410 --> 01:05:59,070 are doing with podcasting 2.0 We thought we don't just give we 987 01:05:59,070 --> 01:06:04,950 provide an additional amount of inbound liquidity. But the the 988 01:06:04,980 --> 01:06:09,780 most of the liquidity actually comes from our users. And we're 989 01:06:09,780 --> 01:06:13,470 using zero comms channels in order to provide them with the 990 01:06:13,470 --> 01:06:18,330 ability to spend the funds immediately after receiving 991 01:06:18,330 --> 01:06:21,240 right. I think that's the main difference. So liquidity 992 01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:27,960 actually, in our use case comes from a user's app. And Phoenix 993 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,840 and moon are doing the same thing. And I think, 994 01:06:31,110 --> 01:06:33,930 yeah, I was gonna say, so the kind of the liquidity providers 995 01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:41,430 version 1.0 was like, the services where you can, you 996 01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:44,550 know, pay 10%, or whatever, and you get a channel for a month, 997 01:06:44,610 --> 01:06:48,150 that was kind of the early version of liquidity providers. 998 01:06:48,990 --> 01:06:52,800 I think the early version of liquidity providers that, by the 999 01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,010 way, we actually implemented braces that we open the 1 1000 01:06:56,010 --> 01:07:00,960 million Satoshi channel to end user for free. That was version 1001 01:07:00,990 --> 01:07:02,910 that's a bad, that's a bad business model. 1002 01:07:03,810 --> 01:07:08,430 Yeah, but we did that on purpose in order to learn to understand 1003 01:07:08,430 --> 01:07:11,670 the use cases and how people are using like, here's where 1004 01:07:11,670 --> 01:07:14,700 we're at now. Exactly. We're also figuring it out now, like, 1005 01:07:14,700 --> 01:07:16,860 Okay, how are people using it, but all of this could go away 1006 01:07:16,860 --> 01:07:18,480 for us is what I'm hearing you say? 1007 01:07:19,290 --> 01:07:23,760 So yeah, so what I'm saying is that, when you create channels 1008 01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:29,220 on the fly, you can reuse the liquidity in sent right to to 1009 01:07:29,220 --> 01:07:33,810 users, in order to open the channels. You don't say I like 1010 01:07:33,870 --> 01:07:38,940 Open the Channels upfront, you open the channel as a reaction 1011 01:07:38,970 --> 01:07:44,160 to receiving the funding the funds. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Is so 1012 01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,010 that that mitigates this kind of issue? 1013 01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:51,480 Right? Yes. Yes. Where you take a small percentage for opening 1014 01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,000 the channel, you take that of the initial funding. Okay. Yeah. 1015 01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,490 Well, that's great. That makes total sense. Yeah, 1016 01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,540 yeah. So we take a small processions, by the way maybe 1017 01:08:00,540 --> 01:08:06,270 when will we will route more in a different scale and maybe fees 1018 01:08:06,270 --> 01:08:11,070 will be higher, maybe we can we can do that for free. But for 1019 01:08:11,070 --> 01:08:15,510 now, in order to offset some of our expenses, we we do take a 1020 01:08:15,510 --> 01:08:19,170 small fee when you open it when we open the channel on the 1021 01:08:19,170 --> 01:08:22,110 flight and you don't have enough inbound liquidity. 1022 01:08:22,770 --> 01:08:26,010 And that that's that's what a zero comp channel is. I mean, 1023 01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,280 that it's a it's a pre it's opening a channel before the 1024 01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:30,750 payments settled on chain right. 1025 01:08:32,100 --> 01:08:37,710 So to two to two concepts two terms and which which serve 1026 01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:38,940 different turbo I guess it's a 1027 01:08:38,940 --> 01:08:39,870 turbo channel really. 1028 01:08:40,620 --> 01:08:44,430 One One is a channel it is creating channels on the fly. 1029 01:08:44,460 --> 01:08:48,750 This actually is the ability that you need in order to open a 1030 01:08:48,750 --> 01:08:53,160 channel in order to a as a response to receiving funds 1031 01:08:53,190 --> 01:08:57,300 that's one term I don't like the use is zero confront turbo 1032 01:08:57,300 --> 01:09:00,870 channels are the same. I don't like the marketing name of tuber 1033 01:09:00,870 --> 01:09:06,870 channels. So I use zero calm because it exposes the expose 1034 01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:11,640 the nature of the channel, zero cons channel means you trust 1035 01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:15,750 breeze, a until the channel is confirmed. So zero coins 1036 01:09:15,750 --> 01:09:20,610 channeled provides the ability to spend the funds immediately 1037 01:09:20,610 --> 01:09:23,850 after receiving them without waiting for on chain 1038 01:09:23,850 --> 01:09:28,020 confirmation. So you can install breeze receive payment and spend 1039 01:09:28,020 --> 01:09:31,530 this payment immediately without waiting for origin confirmation. 1040 01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:34,560 And this is a zero point channel. It's kind of different 1041 01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:40,620 from channel on the fly. Like so I think with this new 1042 01:09:40,620 --> 01:09:45,450 infrastructure, this is stuff that we worked on during 2020 1043 01:09:45,450 --> 01:09:49,260 and still improving. I think this mitigates really the no 1044 01:09:49,260 --> 01:09:52,290 with the inbound liquidity issue because you don't need in one 1045 01:09:52,290 --> 01:09:55,560 liquidity. The inbound liquidity is the inbound liquidity the 1046 01:09:55,560 --> 01:10:00,900 user that users provide and got it so you don't So you don't 1047 01:10:00,900 --> 01:10:05,700 need like a central entity and stuff like that you need to as 1048 01:10:05,700 --> 01:10:10,380 an LSP, you need to have enough liquidity in order to serve a 1049 01:10:10,410 --> 01:10:16,320 dynamically the users that are coming to your A to your node 1050 01:10:16,350 --> 01:10:20,520 and asking for channels to be to be created. But that's it, you 1051 01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:24,510 don't need like, we can talk about liquidity management after 1052 01:10:24,510 --> 01:10:29,160 but it's a complicated topic. The thing is the main issue that 1053 01:10:29,670 --> 01:10:34,500 that doesn't solve, unlike custodial solution, when you run 1054 01:10:34,530 --> 01:10:39,210 a node on your mobile device, to know that actually runs only 1055 01:10:39,210 --> 01:10:45,810 when the app is active, a meaning you can receive bands 1056 01:10:45,870 --> 01:10:50,010 only when the app is active. Now there are ways to work around 1057 01:10:50,010 --> 01:10:55,050 that. Like you can use a GSM and mobile notification in order to 1058 01:10:55,050 --> 01:10:58,830 wake the app and stuff like that. But it's really unreliable 1059 01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:03,810 with the current mobile operating systems. And it's not 1060 01:11:03,810 --> 01:11:09,390 solution that is inherit a two, two lightning, meaning it's not 1061 01:11:09,390 --> 01:11:12,690 self contained in lightning, what what what will happen if 1062 01:11:12,690 --> 01:11:16,710 you want to run in lightning application in your browser, or 1063 01:11:16,740 --> 01:11:20,520 in another device? So we need to have a way in earth, really to 1064 01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,880 be on par with custodial solution? We need to have a way 1065 01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,360 to receive payments, even if you're not running your node 1066 01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:28,110 actively. 1067 01:11:29,130 --> 01:11:31,560 Right. But that requires something in the cloud 1068 01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:32,760 listening, then I presume? 1069 01:11:34,230 --> 01:11:38,970 Yes, yes, that's definitely part of the solution. And maybe using 1070 01:11:38,970 --> 01:11:42,900 other nodes in order to delegate the receive functions to other 1071 01:11:42,900 --> 01:11:46,170 nodes in the network. Nodes that you know, that will be online, 1072 01:11:46,260 --> 01:11:50,850 maybe you use your own nodes in the cloud, like a watch our like 1073 01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,410 you have watched our notes that 1074 01:11:53,670 --> 01:11:58,740 this is very interesting. This is because this is where the 1075 01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:03,420 this is. This is where we the wallet metaphor has to go away. 1076 01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:09,120 Because I understand, what you're saying is you can have a 1077 01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:13,890 noncustodial solution, as long as your key is on your phone for 1078 01:12:13,890 --> 01:12:17,940 sending receiving doesn't really matter that much. Is that what 1079 01:12:17,940 --> 01:12:18,510 you're saying? 1080 01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:23,370 Yes, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I think we solutions 1081 01:12:23,370 --> 01:12:29,520 like a PLCs, there will be an option in lightning, to split 1082 01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:34,530 the keys and to have different keys for different actions. I 1083 01:12:34,530 --> 01:12:41,580 can imagine the future a user users will have a way to give 1084 01:12:41,580 --> 01:12:46,590 receive keys to other nodes, and then tell them like I'm 1085 01:12:46,620 --> 01:12:47,430 delegating the 1086 01:12:48,630 --> 01:12:51,090 right. Okay, oh, that's a cool idea. 1087 01:12:51,480 --> 01:12:55,200 And use this key in order to do that. And I can revoke this key 1088 01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:01,140 whenever I want. So the user can control the key. But if we will 1089 01:13:01,140 --> 01:13:06,810 have the ability to have to split the keys, the lightning 1090 01:13:06,810 --> 01:13:12,390 keys to two different applications. One is for sending 1091 01:13:12,420 --> 01:13:19,110 and the other for receiving, then a I can delegate the node 1092 01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:24,030 because I don't want other nodes to spend my funds that but I can 1093 01:13:24,030 --> 01:13:30,120 trust another node to receive funds on my behalf. The only 1094 01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,780 thing the only thing that I'm losing is kind of the trust, 1095 01:13:33,810 --> 01:13:38,550 there's a trust element that I trust this note to accept the 1096 01:13:38,580 --> 01:13:41,730 funds on my behalf. That's the only downside. 1097 01:13:43,020 --> 01:13:46,050 Well, that reminds me of something like it's a model very 1098 01:13:46,050 --> 01:13:50,580 similar to pop three. So nobody runs their own email server. But 1099 01:13:50,730 --> 01:13:57,120 we debt we sort of delegate the receive ability to receive email 1100 01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,090 on our behalf to some cloud server that we've chosen to 1101 01:14:00,090 --> 01:14:04,200 trust for that function. And then our email clients just go 1102 01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:08,580 and periodically pull those emails down the other that the 1103 01:14:08,580 --> 01:14:13,020 other server has has gotten for us on our behalf so we and we 1104 01:14:13,020 --> 01:14:16,470 said that you know when it comes to descending I'll you know I'll 1105 01:14:16,650 --> 01:14:19,620 I'll retain control of that myself you know, through an SMTP 1106 01:14:19,620 --> 01:14:23,910 channel or route to that through there SMTP host I'll just do 1107 01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:27,660 that on a one off. I'm not going to let this this email server 1108 01:14:27,660 --> 01:14:31,830 just send things randomly that you know as me I retain control 1109 01:14:31,830 --> 01:14:35,190 of that but on the receiving side, I will let them receive on 1110 01:14:35,190 --> 01:14:35,970 behalf of me. 1111 01:14:36,630 --> 01:14:38,850 Yes, because I think that's a great analogy. 1112 01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:43,230 I like them so that's something that we could do we could be a 1113 01:14:43,230 --> 01:14:49,950 mini LSP I guess in that case. CK I want to stay away from 1114 01:14:49,950 --> 01:14:53,400 that. I don't really want to do that quite honestly. Do what 1115 01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:58,500 anything I just want you to do it right. Can you just do 1116 01:14:58,500 --> 01:15:00,600 everything and fix it for us because I'm No, no, 1117 01:15:01,230 --> 01:15:06,180 no. But by the way, I think this is also about this specifically 1118 01:15:06,180 --> 01:15:11,670 what we're trying to do embrace. And I'm trying to onboard. And 1119 01:15:11,730 --> 01:15:14,610 luckily there are there are people that we're working on, 1120 01:15:14,850 --> 01:15:18,660 like the folks from spiral a we're working together right now 1121 01:15:18,660 --> 01:15:23,250 is to make the LSP functionality a standard. So I don't think 1122 01:15:23,250 --> 01:15:26,790 it's a single vendor play a breeze in breeze, by the way, 1123 01:15:26,790 --> 01:15:29,700 you can connect to other nodes in the network, I don't want to 1124 01:15:29,700 --> 01:15:34,770 be the sole LSP I want to be illiquidity market, I want to be 1125 01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,370 to have competition around the liquidity. I think we need 1126 01:15:38,370 --> 01:15:42,120 multiple LSPs I think multiple LSPs. And an open network in 1127 01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:47,010 that regard, creates competition competition, creates better 1128 01:15:47,010 --> 01:15:53,130 prices, and better and user experience. So so so my goal is 1129 01:15:53,130 --> 01:15:58,110 to ever an open client where a user can connect to multiple 1130 01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:03,390 LSPs and to choose the LSPs. They want to interact with a I 1131 01:16:03,390 --> 01:16:04,560 think that's the end goal. 1132 01:16:04,980 --> 01:16:07,920 And is this something that you also see being an important part 1133 01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:12,660 of a self custody LSP type deal at home on an Umbral? 1134 01:16:13,890 --> 01:16:19,290 I think that's that that's a key element. I think, without a way 1135 01:16:19,290 --> 01:16:26,700 to offload a cloud node to your own device, we're still at a 1136 01:16:26,700 --> 01:16:31,740 censorship position. I didn't care what was the Ambrose guys 1137 01:16:31,740 --> 01:16:34,740 are doing with their infrastructure they're building 1138 01:16:34,740 --> 01:16:40,710 and other folks like star nine? Yeah. It's a key element. It's 1139 01:16:40,710 --> 01:16:44,340 part of the package, the ability to offload something from a 1140 01:16:44,340 --> 01:16:47,070 cloud environment to your home environment. Yeah. 1141 01:16:47,070 --> 01:16:53,850 And I want to say I had a very, very nice experience with the 1142 01:16:53,850 --> 01:16:59,070 Bitcoin machines company, they, they basically put a Raspberry 1143 01:16:59,070 --> 01:17:04,140 Pi and preload Umbral in a box, it pretty little box that you I 1144 01:17:04,140 --> 01:17:07,380 have always wanted this, I go back to the cobalt cube, which I 1145 01:17:07,380 --> 01:17:10,560 think we've talked about on the show, I've always thought a home 1146 01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,680 server would be great. And people have tried this and tried 1147 01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:17,790 this. And for some reason, the minute they threw in a Bitcoin, 1148 01:17:18,270 --> 01:17:23,940 and even better threw in lightning, all of a sudden this 1149 01:17:23,940 --> 01:17:28,770 device is now it's complete. It has everything you want. And you 1150 01:17:28,770 --> 01:17:33,090 know it has next cloud in there. I really think this is something 1151 01:17:33,090 --> 01:17:36,480 big. And I just I don't know if you're familiar with tail scale, 1152 01:17:37,020 --> 01:17:42,210 to be heard of this. No tail scale is it's it's built on, I 1153 01:17:42,210 --> 01:17:46,320 think, the Wireshark protocol. But basically, you view, you 1154 01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:50,700 install it on all your machines, and you have a VPN with your 1155 01:17:50,700 --> 01:17:54,660 machines. And even if you have an Umbral node at home running 1156 01:17:54,660 --> 01:17:57,600 on tour, you haven't popped any ports open, you don't have to do 1157 01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,710 any of that you just installed to scale. And then it works. And 1158 01:18:01,710 --> 01:18:07,680 in fact, it's so cool. I put up a piehole on this on this new 1159 01:18:07,710 --> 01:18:12,510 Umbral. And you can then through tail scale route all your 1160 01:18:12,510 --> 01:18:16,710 traffic even on your phone through that piehole on your 1161 01:18:16,710 --> 01:18:21,720 home network. I mean, these are these are really, really cool 1162 01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:22,860 things that are happening. 1163 01:18:23,519 --> 01:18:27,209 Yeah, I definitely agree. Although, although I don't think 1164 01:18:27,209 --> 01:18:31,619 that's the key to mass adoption. And where I'm focusing is on 1165 01:18:31,859 --> 01:18:34,319 mass. Yeah, I don't think everyone will around. 1166 01:18:34,500 --> 01:18:37,740 And oh, no, oh, no, no, no, don't don't get me wrong. But I 1167 01:18:37,740 --> 01:18:41,940 think there's a significant segment that sees the benefit of 1168 01:18:41,940 --> 01:18:45,960 having all of their shit now at home. There is a segment and I 1169 01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:47,970 think it's important because those 1170 01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:51,840 are the segment. Right, but the moronic? Yes. And number node. 1171 01:18:52,620 --> 01:18:55,710 Yeah, of course, of course. It's a key. And it's a key element of 1172 01:18:55,710 --> 01:18:59,670 the of the of the solution. So if we'll have nodes running in 1173 01:18:59,670 --> 01:19:05,580 the cloud, we will have no, it's a must have to have a way to 1174 01:19:05,610 --> 01:19:10,920 take the information from the cloud nodes and run, run them in 1175 01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:14,070 your home environment. Think it's part yeah, 1176 01:19:14,070 --> 01:19:16,950 you can take it right away and put it in to just move it over. 1177 01:19:16,950 --> 01:19:17,940 It's cool. Yeah. 1178 01:19:18,150 --> 01:19:20,880 And that's part of the solution. Because if something gets 1179 01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:24,630 installed in the cloud, and if they I don't know which cloud 1180 01:19:24,630 --> 01:19:29,640 environment voltage or I don't know, the other nodes providers 1181 01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:32,760 are using if it's not good enough, take your node, trust 1182 01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:34,320 yourself, run it in your 1183 01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:39,240 own environment, right. Man The future's so bright. 1184 01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:45,270 Yeah, yeah. But it's again it's a marathon not a sprint. So I 1185 01:19:45,270 --> 01:19:48,900 understand the I understand it's, it can be frustrated, 1186 01:19:49,260 --> 01:19:53,820 frustrating due to its I'm going to interact with lightning and 1187 01:19:53,820 --> 01:19:57,540 they're still caveat and payments are still failing, but 1188 01:19:58,770 --> 01:20:01,290 are only Go ahead. Sorry. 1189 01:20:01,740 --> 01:20:07,170 I'm just saying the only way to resolve that is to keep building 1190 01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:11,820 and keep improving the existing tooling and keep working on the 1191 01:20:12,150 --> 01:20:16,230 on fixing things, fixing the problem, one problem after 1192 01:20:16,230 --> 01:20:16,680 another. 1193 01:20:17,340 --> 01:20:20,250 The biggest problem with the Bitcoin community and the 1194 01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:22,800 lightning community is the community itself. Unfortunately, 1195 01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,340 it's always like that. Something, something really 1196 01:20:26,340 --> 01:20:30,570 angered me this past week. You know, we have the Are you 1197 01:20:30,570 --> 01:20:36,450 familiar with pod? Ping Roy? Hmm. No, to pod ping is 1198 01:20:36,450 --> 01:20:39,330 basically a blockchain based messaging bus 1199 01:20:39,330 --> 01:20:43,080 for podcasts. Oh, you're talking about the hive? Yeah, yeah. 1200 01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:48,870 And I'll tell you, I'll tell you what made me mad is that we 1201 01:20:48,870 --> 01:20:53,430 there was a specific use case for something that podcasting 1202 01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:59,910 needs. And after many, many presentations, Dave and Dave, 1203 01:20:59,940 --> 01:21:02,700 and then Dave, you know, wouldn't once Dave was on board, 1204 01:21:02,700 --> 01:21:05,580 what do I need to talk about? I was like, okay, yeah, we were 1205 01:21:05,580 --> 01:21:07,620 convinced that this was the right way to do it. Now. It's 1206 01:21:07,620 --> 01:21:14,520 based on hive. And the hive blockchain seems to be a lot 1207 01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:19,260 more utility than shit coin. Although, I guess technically 1208 01:21:19,260 --> 01:21:24,450 it's a shit coin. What? What was so disappointing is, you know, 1209 01:21:24,480 --> 01:21:28,230 we're very excited about pod ping. It's visit future proofing 1210 01:21:28,230 --> 01:21:32,400 podcasting. To the degree that we know it's you know, that 1211 01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:36,930 blockchain is future proof. I see no way to do what pod ping 1212 01:21:36,930 --> 01:21:42,570 does in certainly not on chain with Bitcoin, or with the 1213 01:21:42,570 --> 01:21:47,070 Lightning Network. But the vitriol, the vitriol of people 1214 01:21:47,070 --> 01:21:53,160 coming in and trashing people was just and and this was a lot 1215 01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:56,460 of different ranges of people within the community. That was 1216 01:21:56,490 --> 01:21:59,700 it and but really, like, you need to stop right away and, and 1217 01:21:59,700 --> 01:22:03,510 then starting rumors, Adam curry is a shit coiner it's like, holy 1218 01:22:03,510 --> 01:22:05,820 crap. What is wrong? 1219 01:22:05,820 --> 01:22:09,120 The Bitcoin Maxis just showed there this week. 1220 01:22:09,630 --> 01:22:12,840 We got that in our group as well as the breeze telegram group as 1221 01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:20,010 well. But But I don't know, like Maxis has have the role in the 1222 01:22:20,010 --> 01:22:24,990 in the in the ecosystem. So if you can defend your what you're 1223 01:22:24,990 --> 01:22:28,170 saying basically, that you use the hive as it is a backend 1224 01:22:28,170 --> 01:22:33,480 implementation infrastructure, right. It's not it's not part of 1225 01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:38,100 the payments or testing, podcasting 2.0 compensation 1226 01:22:38,460 --> 01:22:41,970 system in any way. But to us from a technical standpoint, you 1227 01:22:41,970 --> 01:22:46,470 chose to use blockchain as a as an alternative to a database, 1228 01:22:46,590 --> 01:22:47,970 correct? Yeah, exactly. 1229 01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,420 So you need to defend that decision, you need to have the 1230 01:22:51,450 --> 01:22:55,560 ability to defend that decision. Because I think what, what what, 1231 01:22:55,800 --> 01:23:04,350 what I didn't found, I didn't find a blockchain to be could be 1232 01:23:04,350 --> 01:23:08,400 a better solution that then existing databases. So if you 1233 01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,950 can defend the solution, I think the max is will be okay. 1234 01:23:10,980 --> 01:23:13,590 No, no, we can defend the solution, the maxis need to read 1235 01:23:13,590 --> 01:23:17,160 what we're doing, what happens is the maxis come along and say, 1236 01:23:17,250 --> 01:23:19,530 Oh, hi, I've been podcasting. No, we all know 1237 01:23:21,420 --> 01:23:24,600 it. But that's not open only with the maxis, the superficial 1238 01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,420 discussion that is going on online. Like it's everywhere. 1239 01:23:27,450 --> 01:23:29,730 Yeah, I'm just, I'm just bitching about it. Because I 1240 01:23:29,730 --> 01:23:33,090 just I felt really bad for Brian because Brian is taken. First of 1241 01:23:33,090 --> 01:23:35,970 all, he's taken more abuse for me than anybody. I have abused 1242 01:23:36,180 --> 01:23:40,800 this man for two years. And he is he's a he's a wonderful, 1243 01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,830 wonderful person. He really he's doing this for podcasting. He 1244 01:23:43,830 --> 01:23:47,910 has his own hive agenda, which is fine. And every six months, 1245 01:23:47,910 --> 01:23:50,640 I'll try and understand hive again, like give up. It's just, 1246 01:23:51,630 --> 01:23:54,960 I have I'm getting closer each time. But but that's but that's 1247 01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,710 beside the point. It's just so destructive. That's all but just 1248 01:23:58,710 --> 01:23:59,940 stop doing that people. 1249 01:24:01,290 --> 01:24:06,270 The Steve Jobs thing of it, people have to mature into the 1250 01:24:06,270 --> 01:24:09,360 Steve Jobs understanding of this and what I'm specifically 1251 01:24:09,390 --> 01:24:14,370 talking about his famous statement, that as Apple people, 1252 01:24:14,370 --> 01:24:17,370 we need to stop thinking that Microsoft has to lose in order 1253 01:24:17,370 --> 01:24:20,460 for us to win. Yeah, like, if you're confident if you're 1254 01:24:20,460 --> 01:24:24,060 confident in the thing that you believe, then you don't have to 1255 01:24:24,060 --> 01:24:27,660 have everything else lose in order for your thing to succeed. 1256 01:24:27,810 --> 01:24:32,940 And but I'll be honest with you, that if someone wants to do an 1257 01:24:32,940 --> 01:24:37,620 implementation with stable coins or whatever ship coin, I mean, 1258 01:24:37,890 --> 01:24:41,160 who am I to say no, I mean, the spec is open. You can do it with 1259 01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:42,990 Fiat if you want if you want to 1260 01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:45,630 let your market decide exactly and but 1261 01:24:45,630 --> 01:24:49,200 the market but this is this is so it was easy because the eath 1262 01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:53,670 people there, they're here the East people, they just yell at 1263 01:24:53,670 --> 01:24:58,860 you whenever you go on Rogen. Yeah, it was like you said the 1264 01:24:58,860 --> 01:25:02,760 cerium sucks. So that's the that's my, that's exactly what 1265 01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:05,130 they sound like, actually, that's the eighth guy. That's 1266 01:25:05,130 --> 01:25:09,330 the guy. And, and for them, it's really easy because I always 1267 01:25:09,330 --> 01:25:12,930 say, Where's your code? Bitch? It's open, where's your code? 1268 01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:17,010 Where's your gas flowing through the system? That's easy. But 1269 01:25:17,010 --> 01:25:21,690 it's just when you get attacked from the behind. Just always a 1270 01:25:21,690 --> 01:25:24,210 little a surprising, that's all there's my first real 1271 01:25:24,210 --> 01:25:26,790 experience. And I mean, I got friends to 1272 01:25:26,790 --> 01:25:31,080 feature it's a feature item. It's not a bug. It's a way for, 1273 01:25:31,440 --> 01:25:34,620 for the community to striking detail. 1274 01:25:35,010 --> 01:25:38,070 So you always know how to calm me down. I love that about you. 1275 01:25:38,370 --> 01:25:44,250 I you know how much shit I got, like doing breweries like, like, 1276 01:25:44,310 --> 01:25:50,040 it's all around it going on, it will never stop. And I'm okay 1277 01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:55,050 with that. Like, it's part of being a of being a part of the 1278 01:25:55,050 --> 01:25:59,040 Bitcoin ecosystem. And I embrace that, and I love it. Because it 1279 01:25:59,100 --> 01:26:03,180 allows me to reflect on our decision, it allows us to 1280 01:26:03,180 --> 01:26:07,890 improve. And if I know that, if I'm confident in my decision, my 1281 01:26:07,890 --> 01:26:12,030 technical decision, then I can explain it. I stand behind my 1282 01:26:12,030 --> 01:26:12,630 decision 1283 01:26:12,690 --> 01:26:16,350 right now, but you know what? I've been, I've been in the 1284 01:26:16,350 --> 01:26:19,530 public eye since I was 19. I've taken a lot of shit my whole 1285 01:26:19,530 --> 01:26:22,860 life for a lot of different things. I'm just defensive of 1286 01:26:22,860 --> 01:26:25,980 the people who are in the project. That's all. I'm just 1287 01:26:25,980 --> 01:26:30,090 defensive. When when people just do that. It's like, ah, but 1288 01:26:30,090 --> 01:26:33,990 yeah, yes, I agree with you, in general is good, because it does 1289 01:26:33,990 --> 01:26:38,100 make you question and I think I Dave and I both have questions. 1290 01:26:38,100 --> 01:26:40,890 Everyone's question this. But you know, from a technical 1291 01:26:40,890 --> 01:26:44,370 standpoint, it's it's perfect. It's perfect for what we needed. 1292 01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:45,780 And it's, 1293 01:26:45,810 --> 01:26:49,170 we need another plus guests in order to dive into that, I can 1294 01:26:49,170 --> 01:26:54,030 tell you that personally, I so I so many blockchain projects and 1295 01:26:54,030 --> 01:26:59,310 I still is not convinced in the in the in the, like, blockchain 1296 01:26:59,310 --> 01:27:01,950 technology. Blockchain is a technology I don't see in it. 1297 01:27:02,220 --> 01:27:08,610 Like, but but data, it's a topic for another podcast. 1298 01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,790 Well, we get you want to thank some people. Adam, 1299 01:27:11,969 --> 01:27:14,759 I think we should definitely thank some people, Dave. Right. 1300 01:27:16,349 --> 01:27:25,139 And I wanted to say that a second is my favorite right now. 1301 01:27:26,429 --> 01:27:31,139 I really love that one. We really appreciate everybody who 1302 01:27:31,139 --> 01:27:34,739 supports the entire project podcasting 2.0 its value for 1303 01:27:34,739 --> 01:27:38,279 value. And with a book forthcoming from Adam curry and 1304 01:27:38,279 --> 01:27:41,039 Jhansi Dvorak, we're gonna we're gonna write our book, the value 1305 01:27:41,039 --> 01:27:44,039 for value book about the genesis, how it works, how to do 1306 01:27:44,039 --> 01:27:48,329 it. This is this is really needed right now in, in value 1307 01:27:48,329 --> 01:27:51,209 for value land, people need a little bit of a roadmap, and 1308 01:27:51,209 --> 01:27:53,549 we're going to give that book away value for value. So that'll 1309 01:27:53,579 --> 01:27:56,579 that'll be the the meta Excel Yeah, the medics, we're not 1310 01:27:56,579 --> 01:27:59,909 going to make it running and print it. When I put in PDFs, 1311 01:28:00,449 --> 01:28:03,809 you know, whatever, if every format and then 1312 01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:05,340 put it on the blockchain one paragraph. 1313 01:28:07,290 --> 01:28:13,920 Okay, we'll throw it in hive, no doubt. Which means that there's 1314 01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:17,820 no and it's, you know, just full disclosure, Roy and I talk 1315 01:28:17,820 --> 01:28:21,420 regularly, not as regularly as we should. And we, we talk about 1316 01:28:21,420 --> 01:28:25,260 all kinds of stuff. And usually I'm like, you know, how, how can 1317 01:28:25,290 --> 01:28:28,170 I make everyone some money on this thing? And Roy's answer is 1318 01:28:28,170 --> 01:28:30,900 always, man, you're gonna be rich, just to close to me, which 1319 01:28:30,900 --> 01:28:39,270 sounds right. I'm paraphrasing, of course. But every single time 1320 01:28:39,300 --> 01:28:43,890 we talk about projects and the funding, I always come back to 1321 01:28:43,890 --> 01:28:47,310 the same thing is like, if podcast index, if this project 1322 01:28:47,310 --> 01:28:52,080 had any outside funding other than honestly earned through API 1323 01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:56,700 and fees, it would suck it would somewhere down the line, it 1324 01:28:56,700 --> 01:28:59,940 would suck. So we made a very conscious decision. It's called 1325 01:28:59,940 --> 01:29:03,480 the vow of poverty, it's how most podcasts are start to and 1326 01:29:03,810 --> 01:29:07,350 to really stick with it and move through it now we do have costs 1327 01:29:07,350 --> 01:29:10,590 we do have stuff that needs to be paid for. And the more we do 1328 01:29:10,590 --> 01:29:15,240 the more cost and so people we really appreciate you supporting 1329 01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,900 us in time talent and treasure the three T's on the treasure 1330 01:29:18,900 --> 01:29:22,800 side, it's really quite interesting to me how the 1331 01:29:22,830 --> 01:29:26,070 Bitcoin community loves what we're doing love the love the 1332 01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:30,930 use case, I have yet to see any company of significant support 1333 01:29:30,930 --> 01:29:34,500 this project, it's okay, I'm just saying. So I would like to 1334 01:29:34,500 --> 01:29:39,420 add today to our pitch. If you have a podcast and you're using 1335 01:29:39,420 --> 01:29:44,460 value for value in podcasting 2.0 We've put our value our our 1336 01:29:44,460 --> 01:29:49,200 note Id on in the in the show notes. Feel free to add us to 1337 01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:53,250 your split as an extra to help support Feel free. We would 1338 01:29:53,250 --> 01:29:56,760 really appreciate that and be extra cool because then we can 1339 01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:58,980 also read some of your booster grams on our show. 1340 01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:04,110 Awesome says, 1341 01:30:04,350 --> 01:30:07,440 You know what? This just came to mind Dave, that may be a problem 1342 01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:11,070 I got to think about. We've been I've seen booster Graham show up 1343 01:30:11,190 --> 01:30:15,180 that we were clearly put in a split. And I'm like, wait a 1344 01:30:15,180 --> 01:30:17,730 minute, I don't do this show. Why is this showing up? Where 1345 01:30:17,730 --> 01:30:20,070 does what is this was really interesting. 1346 01:30:20,099 --> 01:30:21,989 This is all sold about pivot tables. 1347 01:30:23,580 --> 01:30:30,900 Exactly. So we as part of the value for value loop. We love to 1348 01:30:30,930 --> 01:30:34,620 thank everybody who supported us and read any messages, whether 1349 01:30:34,620 --> 01:30:39,450 it's fiyat fun writings, or booster grants. Either way, 1350 01:30:39,480 --> 01:30:40,830 either way, we love both. 1351 01:30:41,460 --> 01:30:43,320 I like that Thea theat fun scribbles? 1352 01:30:43,379 --> 01:30:46,409 So fun. Ooh, there you go. fiyat fun scribbles? There you go. 1353 01:30:46,889 --> 01:30:52,229 I'm redoing the fee. What's the fee Fun? Fun coupons first, 1354 01:30:53,009 --> 01:30:56,009 Marco Arment every month $500 1355 01:30:56,759 --> 01:30:58,019 Thank you very much Marco. 1356 01:30:58,559 --> 01:31:04,859 Wanted, you know, a critical, sustaining, sustaining donation 1357 01:31:04,859 --> 01:31:08,249 every single month that comes with $500 and I can't thank him 1358 01:31:08,249 --> 01:31:15,359 enough. Thank you, Martha. Always the other big donation 1359 01:31:15,359 --> 01:31:22,799 that we got this this month from Buzzsprout $500. Also Whoa, yep. 1360 01:31:23,159 --> 01:31:26,009 Yep. And they that is a subscript that's a monthly 1361 01:31:26,009 --> 01:31:28,019 subscriptions and monthly subscription five 1362 01:31:29,490 --> 01:31:31,320 Thank you. Oh my goodness. 1363 01:31:31,889 --> 01:31:33,809 Don't those to sustain cast 1364 01:31:33,810 --> 01:31:35,460 sucks a cast sucks 1365 01:31:39,420 --> 01:31:42,150 that's the ad that says this. This quid pro quo is? 1366 01:31:42,690 --> 01:31:45,510 That's right. You send us every single month you send us that 1367 01:31:45,510 --> 01:31:48,750 that $500 I will tell everyone how bad a cast sucks. 1368 01:31:49,770 --> 01:31:53,820 Well, that just means a cast on the pony. But we 1369 01:31:53,820 --> 01:31:56,190 don't accept money from a cast only if they boost the grant. 1370 01:31:56,670 --> 01:32:01,320 Okay, fair and balanced. This is fair and balanced. Thanks guys. 1371 01:32:01,350 --> 01:32:03,870 Yeah, thank you to bus for I appreciate that those two names 1372 01:32:03,870 --> 01:32:08,370 and donations are so so important. Who thank 1373 01:32:08,370 --> 01:32:10,620 you that actually feels really good to hear that 1374 01:32:10,740 --> 01:32:14,970 he does this kind of like every Monday Well this is tax time for 1375 01:32:14,970 --> 01:32:18,600 us Eric just finished our taxes you know as the as the LLC how 1376 01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:19,140 does this work? 1377 01:32:19,139 --> 01:32:21,809 We didn't put any money in our pocket but we were allowed to 1378 01:32:21,809 --> 01:32:22,829 pay taxes over 1379 01:32:24,030 --> 01:32:28,860 I know it's like last year I got a k one that told me that I did 1380 01:32:28,860 --> 01:32:32,040 I got like 1000 bucks or something like that. I'm like i 1381 01:32:32,070 --> 01:32:34,230 Where's this that mystical $1,000 1382 01:32:34,470 --> 01:32:37,380 supposedly guy didn't see it either. Like where did it go? 1383 01:32:37,500 --> 01:32:42,270 And then I got to put it on my tax return. Okay. Yeah, anyway, 1384 01:32:42,300 --> 01:32:44,700 it's the money is top of mind right now with having to pay 1385 01:32:44,700 --> 01:32:51,960 these taxes. We get $10 donation from Stephanie fuccillo podcast 1386 01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,890 consultant and all around podcast genius. Thank you 1387 01:32:55,890 --> 01:32:56,370 Stephanie. 1388 01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:58,590 What is definitely where she worked for do you know 1389 01:32:59,490 --> 01:33:02,550 she's independent? I'm pretty sure she's Miss she's written 1390 01:33:02,550 --> 01:33:04,770 some articles about pocket pockets and 2.0 been a big 1391 01:33:04,770 --> 01:33:05,280 supporter of 1392 01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:07,110 our great Thank you Stephanie. 1393 01:33:07,860 --> 01:33:12,330 And we got some booster grams clearly yes, our PayPal right 1394 01:33:12,330 --> 01:33:12,630 there. 1395 01:33:12,660 --> 01:33:15,390 Yeah, there you go. Yeah. 1396 01:33:16,950 --> 01:33:23,670 We got 1000 SATs from V. He gave us those SD pod friend and he 1397 01:33:23,670 --> 01:33:25,020 just says PIP you 1398 01:33:27,540 --> 01:33:31,470 Okay, so I just have to say I thought it would be cute to 1399 01:33:31,470 --> 01:33:36,420 leave the my Umbro on in the studio. It's it's literally five 1400 01:33:36,420 --> 01:33:39,990 arm lengths away and for some reason, even though I would 1401 01:33:40,140 --> 01:33:44,730 during no agenda even though for so I would from time to time. I 1402 01:33:44,730 --> 01:33:48,810 might hear it. It became a thing and people were trying to 1403 01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:52,590 trigger this booster Graham pew pew sound while my mic was open 1404 01:33:52,770 --> 01:33:56,220 while I wasn't playing a clip and what happened is really Dave 1405 01:33:56,220 --> 01:34:00,990 This is such a good sound. I've gotten 30 emails people saying 1406 01:34:01,050 --> 01:34:04,230 do this I'm read with your sound that I hear I hear like some 1407 01:34:04,260 --> 01:34:08,520 some some like pew sound is Is there something I know how much 1408 01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:10,650 you appreciate sound What are you did something was wrong with 1409 01:34:10,650 --> 01:34:14,130 that? It's that shit cuts through somehow. 1410 01:34:14,250 --> 01:34:17,730 Yeah, it's a notice the it breaks through the noise gates. 1411 01:34:17,730 --> 01:34:20,940 That note is the noise. Breaker. Yeah, 1412 01:34:20,970 --> 01:34:25,170 but you know, I liked it when Spencer had it running during 1413 01:34:25,170 --> 01:34:27,300 your live show. I love hearing that. 1414 01:34:28,410 --> 01:34:30,210 He must have had it piped in. Oh, yeah. No, 1415 01:34:30,210 --> 01:34:32,850 it was right to know it was direct. Yeah. And that that 1416 01:34:32,850 --> 01:34:35,130 makes a lot more sense. I just can't imagine that during no 1417 01:34:35,130 --> 01:34:36,720 agenda. DeVore I could go nuts. 1418 01:34:37,470 --> 01:34:40,290 Because Because on Na Na what you get is like, 1419 01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:43,080 although if I told him I said hey, that's money every single 1420 01:34:43,110 --> 01:34:45,570 time it comes in. He might he might Oh yeah, leave that on. 1421 01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:55,140 A burqa. Chad Ferro is perky with 3333 sets. Yeah, he says do 1422 01:34:55,140 --> 01:34:57,720 it for Mo Yeah. Boom. 1423 01:34:58,170 --> 01:35:04,410 Chad has been, you know, most He was fired from his job, man over 1424 01:35:04,410 --> 01:35:08,430 the mandates and but people stepped up man people boosting 1425 01:35:08,610 --> 01:35:13,260 like 100,000 SATs 200,000 SATs it's been beautiful to watch. 1426 01:35:13,590 --> 01:35:14,520 It's just freaking 1427 01:35:14,670 --> 01:35:17,940 like free Kevin moment. You know? Do it for MO Yes 1428 01:35:18,719 --> 01:35:21,929 indeed indeed to it from Sir Spencer 1429 01:35:21,930 --> 01:35:28,890 send us 330 3333 sets. Nice. Thank you. Yes. Through fountain 1430 01:35:28,890 --> 01:35:31,920 he says hope this reaches you in time. Looking forward to your 1431 01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:34,500 visit with us Sunday on both with us. Oh, that you read that 1432 01:35:34,500 --> 01:35:35,010 last that's 1433 01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:38,730 yeah, that was. Yeah, we got some new ones too. I don't know. 1434 01:35:38,790 --> 01:35:39,870 I don't know if you saw them all. 1435 01:35:41,550 --> 01:35:46,380 Okay, so, five 5000 SATs through to Satoshi stream. Through 1436 01:35:46,380 --> 01:35:49,950 fountain he says you mentioned Dave, you mentioned Dave boosts 1437 01:35:49,980 --> 01:35:53,250 too much are you oh you mentioned Dave boost too much. 1438 01:35:53,460 --> 01:35:56,640 Are you okay with me telling what rank you are in terms of 1439 01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,190 highest boosters institution stream podcast? Yeah, I 1440 01:35:59,190 --> 01:36:03,480 told him and I told him yes. And he didn't get back to me. Yeah, 1441 01:36:03,480 --> 01:36:06,150 and seen that he makes it sound like I've been boosting a lot. 1442 01:36:07,230 --> 01:36:09,030 Oh, well. I don't know you. 1443 01:36:09,839 --> 01:36:12,659 I I am the badass booster. 1444 01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:20,190 Sir dug through fountain. Give us 4400 SATs and he just says 1445 01:36:20,460 --> 01:36:28,770 boost yo, boost. Sir Doug is that it was Sir Doug. Oh, I 1446 01:36:28,770 --> 01:36:31,710 don't know. I'm just wondering if it's Doug from the chat room. 1447 01:36:32,460 --> 01:36:33,270 Oh, no, no, no. 1448 01:36:33,810 --> 01:36:35,940 It's not Doug from the chat room now. 1449 01:36:37,380 --> 01:36:42,300 This Bessie UK he gave us 117 SATs through fountain and he 1450 01:36:42,300 --> 01:36:45,270 says we need a Deutsche boost go podcasting. 1451 01:36:45,750 --> 01:36:50,460 Give you wait we talked we talked about that. We read this 1452 01:36:50,460 --> 01:36:53,400 one Yeah, we read this one because I immediately got a 1453 01:36:53,400 --> 01:36:56,640 tweet from from Germans. No, it was it was from him actually he 1454 01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:59,820 tweeted me and said ah we snuck into podcasting 2.0 board 1455 01:36:59,820 --> 01:37:03,720 meeting we need a German boost. Okay, so that's an old winner 1456 01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:06,540 this by the way. I know that I know what we call it we call it 1457 01:37:06,570 --> 01:37:07,380 Deus boost. 1458 01:37:08,910 --> 01:37:10,920 I don't remember this one from last week. Yeah, 1459 01:37:10,950 --> 01:37:11,940 I'm weird that way. 1460 01:37:12,540 --> 01:37:17,490 Oh, you know what? Okay, here we go. Satoshi stream came in later 1461 01:37:17,790 --> 01:37:21,960 and he says Dave is the largest booster ever to Satoshis dot 1462 01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:27,840 stream podcast number two boosted see number two boosted 1463 01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:31,230 half I don't know what that means. That means 1464 01:37:31,230 --> 01:37:33,630 whoever the number two is boosted half the amount you 1465 01:37:33,630 --> 01:37:34,200 boost. 1466 01:37:34,980 --> 01:37:38,580 Oh, so I basically own you own I own boosters you are 1467 01:37:38,580 --> 01:37:40,350 paying me me a lot 1468 01:37:40,380 --> 01:37:45,060 this. This is just circular money. 1469 01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:48,840 Well, that's the point. That's exactly what you want. Roi is 1470 01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:51,900 not it isn't circular money, isn't it? Aren't we proving the 1471 01:37:51,900 --> 01:37:52,860 whole thing here? 1472 01:37:54,330 --> 01:37:56,310 And not specifically in that example. 1473 01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:01,740 You know, you're using stop using science and math. 1474 01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,260 Really? Party pooper? 1475 01:38:04,710 --> 01:38:08,910 Yeah, it says oh, look at this. He says Adam is number eight. 1476 01:38:09,630 --> 01:38:13,320 I'm a loser. What is this? You're not You're almost outside 1477 01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:14,370 the top 10 Holy 1478 01:38:14,370 --> 01:38:18,420 crap that I'm not used to this stream mine. I know. Well, I 1479 01:38:18,420 --> 01:38:22,200 have to up my boosting game. Now is that is that number of boosts 1480 01:38:22,230 --> 01:38:26,010 or overall value of boost? 1481 01:38:26,460 --> 01:38:29,490 It doesn't say here so clearly says you stream needs to boost 1482 01:38:29,490 --> 01:38:32,910 us again. Yep. And let us know and explain more. Yes. 1483 01:38:35,010 --> 01:38:38,790 Roy, this really works is that's the great part. I think 1484 01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:45,150 gamification is so so hard. I'm so lovely. People literally say 1485 01:38:45,480 --> 01:38:48,990 Oh, this is one of the most enjoyable ways to part with my 1486 01:38:48,990 --> 01:38:50,400 money. Yeah, 1487 01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:53,970 I'm boosting for breeze because you're brilliant. Wow. 1488 01:38:56,670 --> 01:38:57,840 Here's a breeze right here. 1489 01:38:57,870 --> 01:39:02,640 We got Brees is always number one or number two every day. 1490 01:39:02,970 --> 01:39:06,540 Yeah, yeah, you're up there. Yeah, you're not number eight. 1491 01:39:06,540 --> 01:39:07,590 Let's put it that way. 1492 01:39:09,180 --> 01:39:13,560 It's 100 sets through the breeze app. He says more morning tests. 1493 01:39:13,590 --> 01:39:17,940 Yeah, breeze users are cheap passes. Man. That's that's 100 1494 01:39:17,940 --> 01:39:18,990 SATs thanks 1495 01:39:20,730 --> 01:39:26,490 117 SATs from from messy UK. Oh, there you go again, is we need a 1496 01:39:26,490 --> 01:39:30,900 Deutsche boost. This is a different boost. Boost. Boost. 1497 01:39:31,140 --> 01:39:35,310 Bessie is is got Alzheimer's. I mean he's really struggling. 1498 01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:37,380 He's boosting things he's already boost way 1499 01:39:37,380 --> 01:39:40,740 I got the Alzheimer's boost boost. And by the way, not 1500 01:39:40,740 --> 01:39:42,840 anything bad against Alzheimer's because it sucks. 1501 01:39:43,260 --> 01:39:48,390 No, no, no. Sorry. Let me see now. Let's say that he's seen 1502 01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:54,840 Oh, yeah. Mary Oscar. Oscar, also known as Oscar Mary, sent 1503 01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:59,970 us 22,222 SATs big row of ducks through fountain of course nice. 1504 01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:07,230 He says he says until March 1, all new fountain users who 1505 01:40:07,230 --> 01:40:10,380 listened to a podcast will get 1000 Free SAS trap value for 1506 01:40:10,380 --> 01:40:12,960 value go podcasting. Now, that's 1507 01:40:14,310 --> 01:40:18,060 that's some onboarding right there. Roy's ROI. 1508 01:40:19,710 --> 01:40:21,270 Yeah, I'll never do that. 1509 01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:25,080 No, he won't. I know he won't. I know he won't 1510 01:40:26,520 --> 01:40:28,410 never give up preset. 1511 01:40:28,440 --> 01:40:32,190 Hey, but Roy, let me ask you a question. If I gave you 1000 1512 01:40:32,190 --> 01:40:34,650 SATs to give to your new users, would you do it? 1513 01:40:36,420 --> 01:40:39,180 I can't keep the fee. 1514 01:40:40,260 --> 01:40:46,230 Free. So I'll give them 800. Now, but as a serious question, 1515 01:40:46,290 --> 01:40:50,520 if we had someone who wanted to help, okay, we have a use case, 1516 01:40:50,910 --> 01:40:54,210 we have someone who wants to help people onboard onto 1517 01:40:54,210 --> 01:40:59,760 Bitcoin, and immediately give them a sign up bonus of free 1518 01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:04,620 Satoshi sent to any wallet they want. I'm sorry. Sorry. 1519 01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:09,660 I don't like I don't I saw like, dozens of initiatives like that. 1520 01:41:10,110 --> 01:41:10,890 Never walked 1521 01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:13,050 Tell me tell me why. What are the pitfalls? 1522 01:41:13,470 --> 01:41:17,190 Because you don't get a quality users? What do you get if you 1523 01:41:17,190 --> 01:41:21,810 get people that wants to use the free set? And they don't use it 1524 01:41:21,810 --> 01:41:25,560 for like, for good? A 1525 01:41:25,590 --> 01:41:26,550 year or evil? 1526 01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:32,730 What happens? Typically, if you don't, if users don't understand 1527 01:41:32,730 --> 01:41:37,890 the meaning of Bitcoin, the value of Bitcoin, the SATs won't 1528 01:41:37,890 --> 01:41:38,700 go anywhere. 1529 01:41:40,350 --> 01:41:44,070 If it's but if it's loaded in the context of a podcast app, 1530 01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:51,480 and you make them, you make them spend it. But you need a way to 1531 01:41:51,480 --> 01:41:53,250 make them spend the SATs, 1532 01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:54,120 right, yeah. 1533 01:41:54,150 --> 01:41:56,850 What about this? What about this, you give you give them 1534 01:41:56,850 --> 01:42:00,390 1000 SATs? And if they haven't spin it within? Within five 1535 01:42:00,390 --> 01:42:02,670 days? It all goes to me. 1536 01:42:05,280 --> 01:42:09,780 Perfect. Working on that day gone? Probably. Does we like 1537 01:42:09,780 --> 01:42:14,040 that. No, but But generally speaking, I don't really like 1538 01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:15,060 paying users. 1539 01:42:15,930 --> 01:42:20,940 It is the way of the world of course, that's how the current 1540 01:42:20,940 --> 01:42:24,990 world works with users. I appreciate we want to change. I 1541 01:42:24,990 --> 01:42:27,390 know I That's why I appreciate what you're saying about 1542 01:42:27,390 --> 01:42:31,080 understanding the value. That's, that's exactly. That's a very 1543 01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:31,770 good point. 1544 01:42:32,370 --> 01:42:35,790 It's value for value, right? And there's value in this that 1000 1545 01:42:35,790 --> 01:42:37,020 sets that you're giving up. 1546 01:42:37,830 --> 01:42:39,900 It's a problem that you're this practical ROI. 1547 01:42:40,110 --> 01:42:42,600 I know we should never invite him back. 1548 01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:48,540 Yes, yes. This was way too much capitalist was three 333 says 1549 01:42:48,540 --> 01:42:52,440 from coal McCormick, do fountain he says I started my own podcast 1550 01:42:52,440 --> 01:42:55,140 called America plus, I talk about innovation happening in 1551 01:42:55,140 --> 01:42:58,140 the world and in myself. Still learning how to create chapters 1552 01:42:58,140 --> 01:43:00,060 but I can sure except SAS 1553 01:43:02,040 --> 01:43:05,040 whoops. Nice, man. Yeah, thank you. Cool. 1554 01:43:05,730 --> 01:43:08,550 We got some we got to move. We got so many booster grams here. 1555 01:43:09,660 --> 01:43:16,710 Hunt 100 sets through through breeze is bleep. No name or 1556 01:43:16,710 --> 01:43:20,490 anything out from Franco Celerio yet 1557 01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:23,610 again. Again. I'm just 1558 01:43:24,990 --> 01:43:30,030 Franco Celerio through cast ematic sin is 5150 sets. Oh, Van 1559 01:43:30,030 --> 01:43:30,390 Halen. 1560 01:43:30,420 --> 01:43:34,290 That's right. 51 cities. You have to go to these insane 1561 01:43:34,290 --> 01:43:40,440 asylum, isn't it? Yeah. 5150 is the code for the cop. That's why 1562 01:43:40,440 --> 01:43:44,490 Van Halen use it is the cop code for him. You know, I'll give you 1563 01:43:44,490 --> 01:43:46,980 the exact Go ahead. Read the read the note and I'll tell you 1564 01:43:46,980 --> 01:43:50,370 Yes, yes. A Franco said is 5153 test medic. He says is it a 1565 01:43:50,370 --> 01:43:53,430 problem? If every time I have to debug some value for value issue 1566 01:43:53,430 --> 01:43:56,130 in Casta medic, I send you some money. That is not a problem, 1567 01:43:56,130 --> 01:44:00,210 Franco. That is absolutely not a problem. We actually encourage 1568 01:44:00,210 --> 01:44:00,330 it. 1569 01:44:00,540 --> 01:44:03,750 5150 is the number of the section of the Welfare and 1570 01:44:03,750 --> 01:44:07,320 Institutions Code which allows a person with a mental challenge 1571 01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:11,370 to be involuntarily detained for a 72 hour psychiatric 1572 01:44:11,370 --> 01:44:18,390 evaluation. Oh, okay. Also known as Baker acting I think you 1573 01:44:18,390 --> 01:44:19,350 could do it to your kid. 1574 01:44:21,690 --> 01:44:24,210 I think that might come in useful Sunday. 1575 01:44:24,210 --> 01:44:27,630 Yes, yes. Hey, kid. 51 That's why they put it in there is that 1576 01:44:27,630 --> 01:44:29,130 Van Halen had had humor. 1577 01:44:30,870 --> 01:44:33,900 Mere Mortals podcast, our buddy Karen downs and as a super rush 1578 01:44:33,900 --> 01:44:41,820 boost 21 112. And he says, Jay Jones sounds like the bad boy 1579 01:44:41,820 --> 01:44:45,240 developer your rebellious daughter brings? plays fast and 1580 01:44:45,240 --> 01:44:48,210 loose with the law but faster and looser with code. Oh yeah. 1581 01:44:48,210 --> 01:44:54,420 Your API and then break your heart. Hide your kids. Hide your 1582 01:44:54,420 --> 01:44:57,330 kids hide your pod ping and hide you SAS because he's data 1583 01:44:57,330 --> 01:45:00,000 scraping everybody out of here. Here's my here's my question. 1584 01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:03,120 attribution to bring this about. Thank you Karen. 1585 01:45:04,170 --> 01:45:06,900 That guy, he's a poet. He's a poet 1586 01:45:07,110 --> 01:45:12,180 in like, freakin 12 languages. He has a polymath. Yeah. Thank 1587 01:45:12,180 --> 01:45:18,150 you Carrie. Martin from pod friend day. Notify 1932 1588 01:45:18,510 --> 01:45:22,710 Boom shaka laka he noticed that that Martin comes back in the 1589 01:45:22,710 --> 01:45:26,160 comments just accelerated a little bit somehow something 1590 01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:26,670 happened 1591 01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:31,080 it because he's he said because he's such a bright like he's a 1592 01:45:31,140 --> 01:45:32,100 ray of sunshine 1593 01:45:32,130 --> 01:45:36,150 he is yes. A ray of Danish sense sunshine. He's our he's our our 1594 01:45:36,150 --> 01:45:43,620 tasty Danish my whole goal in life by the way is to make you 1595 01:45:43,620 --> 01:45:46,950 laugh, Dave. That's all I'm here for. And I'll be here all week. 1596 01:45:46,980 --> 01:45:47,190 This 1597 01:45:48,690 --> 01:45:52,350 pod friend didn't taste the Danish developer Martin since 1598 01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:56,880 25,932. says and he says hello world. I guess he's doing some 1599 01:45:56,880 --> 01:46:00,090 tests. We are beneficiaries of this. Yeah. How you doing? 1600 01:46:01,260 --> 01:46:02,430 Hello. Hello World. 1601 01:46:02,850 --> 01:46:07,950 Cast Breeland 6600 says through fountain and he says haha, pew 1602 01:46:07,950 --> 01:46:13,830 pew in the NA show. Let me see. The PPU in the NA show. Let me 1603 01:46:13,830 --> 01:46:18,330 think of the sound on let's say only fans. Were a bunch of sluts 1604 01:46:18,330 --> 01:46:20,790 and it works for the show boost. 1605 01:46:21,960 --> 01:46:25,590 Which reminds me just what happened to your only fans. Roy 1606 01:46:25,620 --> 01:46:29,340 thought you were going to do an only fans. Satoshi version. 1607 01:46:29,970 --> 01:46:34,020 Yeah, we got distracted a bit. But we'll we'll we'll do that. 1608 01:46:34,500 --> 01:46:36,840 Yeah. It'll just it'll distract. 1609 01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:40,320 Yes, that's yeah. No, that's that's the service that 1610 01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:41,370 everyone's waiting for it. 1611 01:46:42,240 --> 01:46:44,880 Okay, yeah, it's coming. It's coming. I know 1612 01:46:48,930 --> 01:46:52,620 what you're you don't think you don't think that's true? I know. 1613 01:46:52,620 --> 01:46:55,200 I know, Roy. He means that I mean, oh, you can do anything 1614 01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:57,660 you want with it, but only fans is just a version. 1615 01:46:58,710 --> 01:47:04,290 And now guys. Okay. He said he's, um, Alex, as he said, it's 1616 01:47:04,290 --> 01:47:04,740 coming. 1617 01:47:05,700 --> 01:47:10,050 No, believe me, believe me. In my mind, I said get some tissue 1618 01:47:10,050 --> 01:47:11,760 but I don't do that anymore. 1619 01:47:12,509 --> 01:47:15,779 I can't help you call me out. I had to admit it. Sorry. I'm a 12 1620 01:47:15,779 --> 01:47:16,289 year old. 1621 01:47:16,710 --> 01:47:18,450 perpetually. Yes. 1622 01:47:19,710 --> 01:47:25,890 Okay, in for Vieques since 1234 sets, and he says thank you for 1623 01:47:25,890 --> 01:47:28,530 your coding. Well, you're welcome. They said that they're 1624 01:47:28,530 --> 01:47:36,270 curio caster. C 2222 SATs from B mozzie. From Brian. Through 1625 01:47:36,270 --> 01:47:39,960 fountain he says spew those sets. We'd like to 1626 01:47:45,240 --> 01:47:51,420 pre See primitive one. Interesting. Gave us 12345 sets 1627 01:47:51,450 --> 01:47:54,690 Nice. Yeah. And he says my hood friend and I want to do a 1628 01:47:54,690 --> 01:47:58,950 podcast about cover songs. I think that you should Yes. 1629 01:48:01,410 --> 01:48:03,900 We actually talked about this on the Macedon. You gotta be 1630 01:48:03,900 --> 01:48:07,800 careful. Yeah, cover Ville is the only podcast that has really 1631 01:48:07,800 --> 01:48:10,410 done that successfully. We got to do a lot of clearances and 1632 01:48:10,410 --> 01:48:13,200 especially if you're receiving SATs, just be careful on that. 1633 01:48:13,530 --> 01:48:16,800 Oh, that's because of the Yeah, this music rice you know, you 1634 01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:19,950 can just get into some shit there. So yeah, consult a 1635 01:48:19,950 --> 01:48:21,510 lawyer. Or sorry. 1636 01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:26,610 John's BRTs in his 49,000 SATs. Whoa, mountain. Wait. 1637 01:48:27,120 --> 01:48:28,500 Is he a baller for today? 1638 01:48:29,160 --> 01:48:33,000 A dd dd let me look into the list. Yeah. 1639 01:48:34,200 --> 01:48:39,720 Shot kala Blaze. Boost Nice. 1640 01:48:40,019 --> 01:48:46,889 Cleese's stacking SATs and harvesting hive Thank you jobs 1641 01:48:46,889 --> 01:48:55,529 BRT. 70 cc. What's the 7777? Is that? A name for that? Soccer 1642 01:48:55,529 --> 01:48:59,039 sevens, soccer sevens through from Harry Duran from the 1643 01:48:59,039 --> 01:49:03,329 podcast junkies and he gave us this this he found and he says, 1644 01:49:03,539 --> 01:49:06,059 I never thought an episode about building the future of 1645 01:49:06,059 --> 01:49:10,199 podcasting could be so damn sexy. Harry Duran podcast 1646 01:49:10,199 --> 01:49:14,879 junkies see 1647 01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:17,250 how many more do we have Dave? 1648 01:49:17,490 --> 01:49:23,760 We got a few more 1000 says from mollusc. And he says, wondering 1649 01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:26,010 about how Adam is doing and his journey with Linux and 1650 01:49:26,010 --> 01:49:27,480 podcasting, go podcasting. 1651 01:49:27,540 --> 01:49:33,360 Go podcasting. Well, podcast. Linux is still kind of in and 1652 01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:36,570 please don't email me. Linux is still kind of incompatible with 1653 01:49:36,570 --> 01:49:39,090 the way I work with audio. Let's just put it that way. 1654 01:49:41,850 --> 01:49:44,400 He sent us the exact same message again so I'm thinking 1655 01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:47,640 what happens he's using breeze and he machinegun boosted. Let's 1656 01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:52,590 see. I'd like I'm liking this feature. Now. 1657 01:49:52,710 --> 01:49:59,430 This is a high quality feature, Roy. thank you Steven B. Oh, 1658 01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:03,570 I'll have to send you what this looks like. It's Steven B that 1659 01:50:03,570 --> 01:50:08,010 the B is the Bitcoin symbol Hmm Nice. 1660 01:50:08,070 --> 01:50:10,890 Oh, I see it here Oh is 1111 1661 01:50:11,940 --> 01:50:18,120 is 34 1703 curio caster and he says I'm gonna live 3417 boost 1662 01:50:18,120 --> 01:50:21,570 in honor of bowl after bowls first live Adam show yet and I 1663 01:50:21,570 --> 01:50:25,380 have to say the Steven V and game, curio caster he's Oh, he's 1664 01:50:25,380 --> 01:50:27,990 on the bleeding edge of every new feature that comes out of 1665 01:50:27,990 --> 01:50:31,110 podcasting tip one oh, he really was helpful for that 1666 01:50:31,140 --> 01:50:34,200 even today in sovereign feeds Roy, you've got to check out 1667 01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:38,910 sovereign feeds calm, you can literally take any podcast and 1668 01:50:38,910 --> 01:50:43,200 you can output a fully 2.0 compatible feed all the features 1669 01:50:43,200 --> 01:50:46,500 are in there. And he made it because he added something for 1670 01:50:46,500 --> 01:50:51,090 the cross app comments. I think you have to have the platform 1671 01:50:51,120 --> 01:50:55,920 and the method. So it's activity pub Macedon. And I opened up 1672 01:50:56,130 --> 01:50:59,130 sovereign feeds and literally said right there, Adam, this is 1673 01:50:59,130 --> 01:51:01,680 where you need to put this. I mean, he's coding shit in 1674 01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:05,340 personally for me. That was so hot. 1675 01:51:05,370 --> 01:51:09,120 That idea that oh, it's good idea. 1676 01:51:09,330 --> 01:51:10,710 That's a slam or not. But I'll take 1677 01:51:10,740 --> 01:51:14,010 No, no, no, not a slam at all. Oh, no, no, no. When you know 1678 01:51:14,010 --> 01:51:16,860 that your user has specific when you're, you know, that your 1679 01:51:16,860 --> 01:51:21,000 users have specific, or when you can anticipate as a developer 1680 01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:24,930 that that a specific section of your users are going to have 1681 01:51:25,350 --> 01:51:29,220 questions or is always the right thing to guide them in the app 1682 01:51:29,220 --> 01:51:32,070 itself, rather than to wait for a support request. Well, that's 1683 01:51:32,070 --> 01:51:34,920 what I'm saying. No, it wasn't a you. That's that's exactly the 1684 01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:39,840 way as far as I'm concerned now. That I think the best apps to do 1685 01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:42,240 that. It's like, Hey, I already know that this is going to be a 1686 01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:44,190 problem for us tell them in the app. 1687 01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:46,740 But it actually said, Adam, that was the fun thing. 1688 01:51:47,220 --> 01:51:47,940 Oh, 1689 01:51:48,480 --> 01:51:50,970 it didn't just say here's where you add them put this in here. 1690 01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:51,840 Okay. A 1691 01:51:52,380 --> 01:51:53,130 different story. 1692 01:51:53,790 --> 01:51:55,950 Let's see. All right. So we're sovereign. 1693 01:51:55,950 --> 01:51:57,120 feeds.com 1694 01:51:58,830 --> 01:52:04,110 Floridian slips, give us 5000 SATs. And he says, Thanks for 1695 01:52:04,110 --> 01:52:06,540 all your work on 2.0. Can you recommend a channel for 1696 01:52:06,540 --> 01:52:09,270 questions to be directed and having issues with the index and 1697 01:52:09,270 --> 01:52:12,150 boosting figured out what try with a boost to get some info? 1698 01:52:12,450 --> 01:52:15,570 Well, yeah, the channel is podcast index dot social. So 1699 01:52:15,570 --> 01:52:16,020 interesting 1700 01:52:16,020 --> 01:52:18,510 that I'm missing some of these booster grams. 1701 01:52:19,650 --> 01:52:24,630 Alright, well, you know, they these are selectable so Oh, 1702 01:52:24,630 --> 01:52:27,480 right. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah, they may they may not have 1703 01:52:27,480 --> 01:52:29,100 chosen to include, or 1704 01:52:29,130 --> 01:52:31,140 that's what I'm always worried about. Since this is just a 1705 01:52:31,140 --> 01:52:34,770 monitor 1% split. I'm always worried that that's just not 1706 01:52:34,770 --> 01:52:35,370 getting through. 1707 01:52:36,630 --> 01:52:39,090 I think it depends on the app that it comes through. Because I 1708 01:52:39,090 --> 01:52:42,630 can cast a magic if you boost. It comes up and you can choose 1709 01:52:42,900 --> 01:52:45,570 who you want to boost and one of the sections selections is 1710 01:52:45,570 --> 01:52:49,500 everyone. Yeah, but mostly you have that think, like bright 1711 01:52:49,500 --> 01:52:51,960 with Breeze if you boost it just goes to everybody always. 1712 01:52:51,990 --> 01:52:55,860 I actually don't like that feature anymore. What? I'd like 1713 01:52:55,860 --> 01:52:58,830 everyone in it, I'd like everyone. It's so kind of rude. 1714 01:52:58,830 --> 01:53:03,210 It's like I'm excluding someone it was intended to do to give 1715 01:53:03,210 --> 01:53:06,330 someone an extra boost, which I don't think it's used for. 1716 01:53:07,650 --> 01:53:10,080 Oh, you mean like it should always go to everybody? Like 1717 01:53:10,110 --> 01:53:11,850 that's my personal feeling? Yeah. 1718 01:53:12,060 --> 01:53:16,320 Yeah. Can't be a good coder is gonna code. 1719 01:53:16,770 --> 01:53:19,650 That's right. That's right. That's just why I use breeze. 1720 01:53:20,340 --> 01:53:24,240 Because I can, you can't choose who you send it to. And you can 1721 01:53:24,240 --> 01:53:26,400 just be a low life and send 30 SATs. 1722 01:53:29,370 --> 01:53:36,270 We're enabling monetizing trolls. Anonymous through us and 1723 01:53:36,270 --> 01:53:39,300 it's 10,000 SAS through cast ematic and he just says free 1724 01:53:39,300 --> 01:53:41,850 media. Yay. free media. 1725 01:53:42,270 --> 01:53:44,820 Now, did you not? Oh, no, that's a different one. I'm sorry. Yes. 1726 01:53:44,820 --> 01:53:47,100 Got it. 10,000 Nice. Thank you. 1727 01:53:47,670 --> 01:53:51,510 Bill Prague. Since 3000. Sets the pod friend and he says don't 1728 01:53:51,510 --> 01:54:00,930 be a maxi go podcasting. Podcast see dubs 3333. Through the boost 1729 01:54:00,930 --> 01:54:07,230 CLI shell script, nice. A he's see. He sent a link. 1730 01:54:07,650 --> 01:54:10,830 And that definitely didn't go to me. That's a direct key send I 1731 01:54:10,830 --> 01:54:11,250 think. 1732 01:54:12,090 --> 01:54:16,260 Okay, so he sent he sent a link and this is a link to his to the 1733 01:54:16,260 --> 01:54:19,740 boost bots GitHub repo, where they're working on all the 1734 01:54:19,740 --> 01:54:24,840 different connectors to cool to send boost to IRC and Mastodon 1735 01:54:24,870 --> 01:54:28,590 Oh, nice. Yeah, he said we're working on matrix next. 1736 01:54:28,650 --> 01:54:31,320 Well, you hear that Roy matrix? Are you still you guys still 1737 01:54:31,320 --> 01:54:32,040 working on that? 1738 01:54:32,970 --> 01:54:33,900 On the back burner? 1739 01:54:35,190 --> 01:54:39,540 Everything I say to Roy is Are you alright, Roy? Do you okay? 1740 01:54:40,560 --> 01:54:43,920 I'm good. That good? Okay, a lot. A lot of boosts like 1741 01:54:46,950 --> 01:54:51,510 what do you want to leave? No. Okay. This is the best part of 1742 01:54:51,510 --> 01:54:52,050 the show. 1743 01:54:53,370 --> 01:54:58,860 Martin Martin from pod friend. We have a series of C 100 100. 1744 01:54:59,340 --> 01:55:01,980 Oh, he's definitely Testing. Yeah, he's doing some tests 1745 01:55:01,980 --> 01:55:05,490 100 100 100 I'm just giving them credit. Um, quick credit for 1746 01:55:05,490 --> 01:55:08,640 these. It's like 1000 SATs of boost CQ, 1747 01:55:08,640 --> 01:55:09,720 Mr. 100 they 1748 01:55:11,309 --> 01:55:15,299 have an extra 100 from row from Roy. And that was all from 1749 01:55:15,299 --> 01:55:17,669 Martin doing testing and then we got floating slips again with 1750 01:55:17,669 --> 01:55:20,969 500 SATs and he says testing your splits. See this is exactly 1751 01:55:20,969 --> 01:55:23,669 the way you fund open source projects. Yes through testing 1752 01:55:23,669 --> 01:55:24,779 things testing things with 1753 01:55:24,780 --> 01:55:27,690 money is a beautiful I would add there's another t shirt 1754 01:55:27,810 --> 01:55:30,720 podcasting. 2.0 we test shit with money. 1755 01:55:30,990 --> 01:55:39,570 Yeah, I like it. No, test net is for wet. Everything. Everything 1756 01:55:39,570 --> 01:55:45,960 is everywhere. Gary Arntz in his 3141 sets. And he says that's to 1757 01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:48,390 fountain and he says just returning the love today who is 1758 01:55:48,390 --> 01:55:52,020 still remains the only person who has boosted my podcast. Gary 1759 01:55:52,020 --> 01:55:55,680 aren't everything everywhere daily. Oh, how you doing this 1760 01:55:55,680 --> 01:55:59,310 year? We know Gary. And the number one booster assists 1761 01:55:59,310 --> 01:55:59,670 right? I 1762 01:55:59,670 --> 01:56:02,790 mean, you should you should have a little badge next to your name 1763 01:56:02,790 --> 01:56:04,320 on the master doll. I'm gonna do that. 1764 01:56:04,980 --> 01:56:06,360 Number one booster. That's right. 1765 01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:08,130 Wow, that was gay. 1766 01:56:08,250 --> 01:56:13,260 Oh, thanks. Comic Strip blogger gave us he's the delimiter is 1767 01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:16,140 end of end of donation segment almost 1768 01:56:16,590 --> 01:56:20,910 10,033 cents through pod friend and he says howdy David AC. I 1769 01:56:20,910 --> 01:56:23,370 hope you are not invaded by Russia yet like my Slavic 1770 01:56:23,370 --> 01:56:27,480 brothers in Ukraine are. You're welcome to listen to our podcast 1771 01:56:27,480 --> 01:56:32,550 about AI called AI cooking read by former famous actor and four 1772 01:56:32,550 --> 01:56:35,880 pub owner Gregory William Forsythe foreman. Just type in 1773 01:56:35,880 --> 01:56:39,180 your web browser or any podcast app AI cooking. Yo 1774 01:56:39,210 --> 01:56:44,640 Yo just boost comics blogger gets it man. He gets it. Yeah, 1775 01:56:44,670 --> 01:56:47,940 he's sending Sass to every single podcast with his message 1776 01:56:47,970 --> 01:56:49,590 and he's getting it out there. I love it. 1777 01:56:50,310 --> 01:56:52,890 We get really good or bad. It's like one o'clock in the morning. 1778 01:56:53,010 --> 01:56:53,820 And we're almost done. 1779 01:56:54,930 --> 01:56:57,150 And I actually want to go out 1780 01:56:58,200 --> 01:57:03,120 to your party or Roy, you got in party? Yeah. I don't know. I'm 1781 01:57:03,120 --> 01:57:06,930 just asking. I don't know. I mean, I somehow whenever I 1782 01:57:06,930 --> 01:57:09,390 envision you I just don't envision you as a party guy. 1783 01:57:10,470 --> 01:57:12,060 Depends how you define a party. 1784 01:57:12,240 --> 01:57:15,900 Well, I'm coming to Israel. So here's just fun. That's right. 1785 01:57:15,900 --> 01:57:19,710 You're gonna show me your party. I can't wait. I want my favorite 1786 01:57:19,710 --> 01:57:25,320 Roy story is when we're in Miami and Roy can't get a can't get an 1787 01:57:25,350 --> 01:57:26,700 Uber and he thought 1788 01:57:26,700 --> 01:57:29,610 his card his card failed his credit card. thing. Yeah. 1789 01:57:29,970 --> 01:57:35,970 Card failed. So then Roy gets on to Brees boss, a boss like an 1790 01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:41,910 Uber card, a gift card through bit. Refill a bit refill and 1791 01:57:41,940 --> 01:57:45,420 Ubers and Ubers himself out of there in like five minutes 1792 01:57:45,450 --> 01:57:47,760 that we were slick. It was very slick. Yeah. 1793 01:57:50,190 --> 01:57:53,220 Okay, so we got some monthly donors here. Just to wrap it up. 1794 01:57:53,310 --> 01:57:58,680 We got pod news at $50 Keith Gibson, in $50. Dwayne Goldie at 1795 01:57:58,680 --> 01:58:04,560 $8 Paul Erskine at $11.14 Miko Goggin at $5 Charles current at 1796 01:58:04,560 --> 01:58:10,080 $5 Christopher Raymer at $10 Sean McCune at $20 cone 1797 01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:15,420 glotzbach at $5 James Sullivan at $10.02 coats at $6.66 and 1798 01:58:15,420 --> 01:58:18,390 Jordan dunville at $10 That wraps up our group 1799 01:58:18,450 --> 01:58:21,630 in the last boost that K booster grams that came in during the 1800 01:58:21,630 --> 01:58:27,270 show. Cost peelings. I'm sorry sir Spencer sent us to boost 1801 01:58:27,300 --> 01:58:33,180 33,369 SATs each with a duplicate message so I don't 1802 01:58:33,180 --> 01:58:35,700 know if he meant to do that but it was no I did because they 1803 01:58:35,700 --> 01:58:39,060 were an hour apart. Thank you for helping us make podcasting 1804 01:58:39,060 --> 01:58:42,030 history shout out to rare encounter with Abel Kirby and 1805 01:58:42,030 --> 01:58:45,960 cold acid who also implemented Live This Week go podcasting 1806 01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:49,920 love from Sir Spencer Dame DeLorean and bowl of after bow. 1807 01:58:52,920 --> 01:58:56,490 We love that. Nice. I love that. Thank you sir Spencer, thank you 1808 01:58:56,490 --> 01:58:58,980 so much for doing that. That was just that was just beautiful. 1809 01:58:58,980 --> 01:59:03,660 Roy Have you got to get on? You got to get heli pad man. Okay, 1810 01:59:03,690 --> 01:59:04,350 on your own bro. 1811 01:59:04,890 --> 01:59:09,480 Yeah, but I didn't have to start doing a podcast, right? I want 1812 01:59:09,480 --> 01:59:10,590 to say who's coming? 1813 01:59:10,620 --> 01:59:11,910 I'll be your first guest. 1814 01:59:11,940 --> 01:59:13,680 I like to dust boots. That's boots. 1815 01:59:15,030 --> 01:59:19,080 But you know, Roy, I have to say and I want I want to thank you 1816 01:59:19,080 --> 01:59:24,030 so much. Really? Thank you for for your trust in the project. 1817 01:59:24,030 --> 01:59:27,420 Thank you for your dedication. Your team as well even though we 1818 01:59:27,420 --> 01:59:28,380 know you do everything 1819 01:59:29,190 --> 01:59:35,220 come on. I don't I don't do anything that that my team is 1820 01:59:35,220 --> 01:59:38,430 doing all the job. I'm just going on podcast talking about 1821 01:59:38,430 --> 01:59:43,710 it. But it really shouldn't be me thanking you guys like first 1822 01:59:43,710 --> 01:59:49,590 you're my two favorite people in the whole world. Amazing. Dave 1823 01:59:49,590 --> 01:59:51,960 is amazing. I don't know if everyone knows how amazing 1824 01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:52,530 Davies I 1825 01:59:52,530 --> 01:59:58,200 do. I do. I'm raising my hand. I know how amazing Dave is. He's 1826 01:59:58,260 --> 02:00:00,330 he says yes, I mean Eazy 1827 02:00:00,540 --> 02:00:04,140 E making me blush man. And you're an inspiration, Adam 1828 02:00:04,170 --> 02:00:05,100 really? Like? 1829 02:00:05,910 --> 02:00:11,280 Well, thank you. You still you, you put your business on the 1830 02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:14,130 line for this. And that's and that's appreciated and you are a 1831 02:00:14,130 --> 02:00:17,550 confidant of mine because you're the one that always takes the 1832 02:00:17,550 --> 02:00:21,780 time to explain this shit when I'm like what is going on? And 1833 02:00:22,860 --> 02:00:26,130 Android likes to gossip like me, I think I think we share that he 1834 02:00:26,130 --> 02:00:30,180 pretends that we don't do it. We gossip about everybody. We have 1835 02:00:30,180 --> 02:00:33,210 our little tea session. Girl chat. Yeah. Oh, yeah, 1836 02:00:33,240 --> 02:00:37,440 definitely. Part of the process. But what is but what is 1837 02:00:37,440 --> 02:00:42,270 happening here is way beyond anything I could have imagined. 1838 02:00:42,270 --> 02:00:45,030 You know, we took a concept of value for value concept, and we 1839 02:00:45,030 --> 02:00:50,280 translated it. And this that's happening now, that took me 10 1840 02:00:50,280 --> 02:00:54,510 years to get that going with PayPal, you know, even to some 1841 02:00:54,510 --> 02:00:57,720 degree like that the immediacy, everything that's happening, it 1842 02:00:57,720 --> 02:01:07,020 is so exhilarating. So exciting. And I think this, to me, this is 1843 02:01:07,020 --> 02:01:10,650 the onboarding that we need. At this moment. It is because 1844 02:01:10,890 --> 02:01:14,640 people understand value when they do it. They understand 1845 02:01:14,640 --> 02:01:20,640 feeling good about the value. It feels incredibly good. And and I 1846 02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:24,780 did with my wife, we started a podcast career in the keeper, re 1847 02:01:24,780 --> 02:01:28,680 all only podcasting 2.0 I'd never submitted it anywhere else 1848 02:01:28,710 --> 02:01:33,360 only into the index, self, self hosted everything. You know, 1849 02:01:33,780 --> 02:01:38,820 we're running the node at home. And within 30 minutes of putting 1850 02:01:38,820 --> 02:01:43,650 our first episode out, the joy of just little bits of SAT 1851 02:01:43,650 --> 02:01:48,960 streaming in was was like, like 20 years ago, we started 1852 02:01:48,960 --> 02:01:55,260 podcasting. It is so cool. Amazing, really is and 1853 02:01:55,380 --> 02:01:57,870 appreciate everything you're doing. And we look forward to 1854 02:01:58,500 --> 02:02:04,830 hopefully using your LSP offerings in the future. Yeah, 1855 02:02:05,160 --> 02:02:09,570 yeah, we will let the Our purpose is to spread this joy, 1856 02:02:09,630 --> 02:02:15,090 right? It doesn't need to be only in like, the breeze app or 1857 02:02:15,090 --> 02:02:18,450 the fountain app needs to be everywhere in every podcasting 1858 02:02:18,450 --> 02:02:22,800 app. And part of our job is to find the right ways to do that. 1859 02:02:24,240 --> 02:02:28,860 Also, yeah, in a safe way, and I love that I love that you're so 1860 02:02:28,860 --> 02:02:32,490 committed to the cause, you know, to noncustodial and making 1861 02:02:32,490 --> 02:02:36,420 all that stuff work in in a in a true in a true way. 1862 02:02:36,510 --> 02:02:41,040 Yeah, baby, you don't have a peer to peer baby. Like, that's 1863 02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:41,670 what we need. 1864 02:02:42,179 --> 02:02:44,849 And I always appreciate talking to you. And it was this was, you 1865 02:02:44,849 --> 02:02:49,169 know, no exception being on the show. Because you you do help us 1866 02:02:49,169 --> 02:02:54,089 think you really do you put us in in a good frame of mind. 1867 02:02:54,809 --> 02:02:56,969 You're pretty you're pretty unique that way, my brother, 1868 02:02:56,999 --> 02:03:01,349 you're pretty unique that way. Yes. You can put that on a t 1869 02:03:01,349 --> 02:03:02,999 shirt. My name is Roy. I'm unique. 1870 02:03:03,570 --> 02:03:05,460 i People think yes. 1871 02:03:05,550 --> 02:03:09,150 Do you do? You do you do? Alright, Dave, you got to get 1872 02:03:09,150 --> 02:03:10,590 back to the to the day job. I 1873 02:03:10,590 --> 02:03:11,850 guess. That's it. 1874 02:03:11,880 --> 02:03:14,370 They mad at you again, because you're always late on Friday. 1875 02:03:14,850 --> 02:03:17,370 No, no, I think they think you've taken a lover. 1876 02:03:19,050 --> 02:03:22,620 Now I'm working like working like 50 to 60 hours a week right 1877 02:03:22,620 --> 02:03:22,800 now. 1878 02:03:23,400 --> 02:03:26,490 I'm broke. I'm say did what cuz tax season is coming up again. 1879 02:03:26,760 --> 02:03:30,480 Yeah, yeah, it's just crazy. Alright, that's it for the board 1880 02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:34,560 meeting. Roy, thank you so much. You know, we'll we'll have you 1881 02:03:34,560 --> 02:03:37,320 on again soon. whenever, whenever you're ready. Feel free 1882 02:03:37,320 --> 02:03:43,260 to abuse us. We love it. I thank you guys. Thank you very much, 1883 02:03:43,260 --> 02:03:45,720 Roy. We'll be back next week with another board meeting of 1884 02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:48,510 podcasting. 2.0 Take care everybody. We'll see you then. 1885 02:04:05,250 --> 02:04:09,810 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts 1886 02:04:09,840 --> 02:04:12,360 index.org For more information