Ep1 Lola Ohonba - Bridging Ancient Wisdom and Modern Medicine: A Pharmacist's Guide to Ethical Psychedelic Business

Dr. Lola Ohonba  0:00  
Life is too short for us to let other people define us absolutely. We are who we are, and we should be proud of who we are. Life is too short for us to let people put us in a box.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  0:14  
Welcome to psychedelic source where wisdom meets practice in the evolving landscape of psychedelic medicine. I'm your host, Dr Sandra Dreisbach, and I'm here to help you navigate the complex intersection of ethics, business and personal growth in a psychedelic space, whether you're a practitioner, therapist, entrepreneur, or simply curious about this transformative field, you found your source for authentic dialog, practical resources and community connection in each episode, we'll dive deep into the stories, strategies and ethical considerations that matter most to our growing ecosystem. Let's tap in to our inner source of wisdom and explore what it means to build a sustainable and ethical psychedelic future together.

Speaker 1  1:07  
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Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  1:38  
Well, this episode, I had the real pure pleasure of talking again with my friend, Dr Lola, who is a clinical pharmacist with over 21 years of clinical experience, and she's also the founder of and CEO, as a matter of fact, of WCI health and alternative health and wellness hub and PsychEntheo consultancy, a mental health company committed to providing affordable therapy with an emphasis on harm reduction and the total well being of the human spirit, mind and body, using their one of a kind innovative platform, PsychEntheo Consult app, but, but you'll soon not only realize, like, obviously, how delighted we are to kind of chat with one another. I met her originally on clubhouse. Always a delight, always like this combination of passion knowledge and real love and joy and community in this space. And she really is a true leader in community for her own people, from coming from Nigeria and Africa of the yorumba people, and still very much commits part of her her practice, to the well being of not just her own community, but also the bouti and and Those who are keepers of the medicine of iboga, and also just does a lot of work in terms of Africa as a whole, in terms of entheo representation and advocacy. So while you may hear her talk about cannabis, maybe some of you know from the cannabis work that she's done now, she's very much doing work around teaching and education in both cannabis and psychedelics, trying to create this new program, which you'll hear about in this episode, but I hope most of all, you'll take away the real joy in community that she and I have with one another and in Our work, because this work really is a joy when you bring it that heart of commitment, community and dedication, and you can see how it benefits all of our communities and relationship by being in relationship with one another, by uplifting her work, my work, and learning more from each other, always in community. So hope you enjoy this, this first episode. Well, hi, welcome Dr Lola to the psychedelic Source podcast. I am so happy to have you here with us today, and grateful that you took the time out to meet with us. I know you're a very busy woman and and I I'm sure we'll be adding a little bit of intro before we begin. But is there anything you would like to personally share about you and your work as we begin? Ah,

Dr. Lola Ohonba  4:32  
yeah. Thank you so much. Dr Sandra for having me. Hi, blessing. Tis love and blessing I share from this side of town, yeah, basically, you know me.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  4:47  
We were trying to introduce you to my audience. We

Dr. Lola Ohonba  4:55  
involved in so many projects, they don't even make notes. But at the end of the day, it's not just getting involved in Project for getting involved in Project sake, this space of wellness is essential. I mean, we are losing average of 22 servicemen every day. We have over 330 million people battling depression. So it is the mental health space, the mental health condition that we have in here in our country, yeah, and all over the world, is an existential distress, an existential threat, even to to to mankind. So that's why I am involved in enterogenic plants. And I have a platform where we have educational platform. We are actually launching our natural medicine psilocybin facilitator training program. It's kind of fabricated to conform to meet the standard of Colorado and Oregon, and you will be surprised. Dr Sandra, how many people are reaching out to us?

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  6:09  
Oh, my goodness, I don't know. I don't know if I would be but I do want to hear about this program. But before we go there, I want to make sure I really at least it's important for me and and as we try and build this idea of community and what it means to actually be sourced in relationship and have good resources and community to know who you are as a person. I mean, you're more than what you do, but you you do such amazing things. Could you tell me a little bit about your and share with our audience a little bit about your own what some may say, your positionality, your your you live in Florida, but you're from Nigeria. Am I correct? Can you tell me a little bit more, like, how did you end up? I mean, and you're infamous, famous for working with cannabis and now bridging the psychedelics, but, but what? What inspires you as a person like tell us a bit about you and your background. Yeah,

Dr. Lola Ohonba  7:06  
thank you for that question. I was born in West Africa, in Nigeria, I'm a Yoruba tribe. I mean, for those of you that are from Brazil or the islands, you probably know they even speak Yoruba out there. So is the same ancestor that brought us here to to the to the country. So I'm a clinical pharmacist by trade. I'm a psychedelic assistant therapy and researcher, and I'm also a consultant pharmacist. But I was raised in the indigenous plant medicine, space where plant was the first line of therapy as young as a very early age of maybe even less than 10, already know how to go in the yard and grab mango leaves and Back of the tree to make concussion for malaria. And it makes sense when I finally came into the pharmacology and became a pharmacist. Makes sense to me to that our ancestors have been very smart. They are way smarter than we give them credit, because the same hydroquinone that you find in the back of that mango living tree is the same hydroquinone that the big farmer extracted and you would take if you are traveling to this tropical area for malaria as a preventative medicine. So that's part of who I am. I'm the founder of WCI, health, psyche and to consultancy, and also our new psyche and to consult. So what else it is I came into the plant medicine space. People ask me, how did you even find yourself here? I'm like, I did not find myself here. The plant found me because that is my heritage. That is my rule, but I publicly started talking about it because of harm reduction, especially when it comes to the psychedelic antigenic space. All these are medicine, and we have to treat them with that respect. Part of also why I am very passionate and very vocal about this space is the fact that a lot of our indigenous folks are being left behind. Their intellectual property are being exploited. And we have to have a voice of wisdom, a voice of reasoning that will come out and say, Look here, let us just not take from this falls. Even when we modify this agent is still their intellectual property, and we need to. And I know, Dr Sandra, you are ethics guru. So these are very, very. Part of the topic me, we have talked about in the past, but most importantly, harm reduction is very major to me. So I'm bringing the my skill in conventional pharmaceuticals and my indigenous herbalism to help our folks navigate this space, we would do antidepressant tapering, we do harm reduction of different kind, drug, drug, drug, harm interaction, and at the end of the day, what matter is helping our people get and stay well, using the healing powers of Mother Nature gave us this precious gift as a labor of love, as a gift of love for us, and it's high time we go back to our root. And that is part of why I'm here.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  10:55  
I love it. I love your story. I love your own personal journey and and I know, you know we don't. I absolutely agree with you that we don't hear enough, or at least not uplifted enough, not just indigenous plant medicine relationship, even though sometimes it's it's glamorized in the psychedelic and plant medicine community, but not often from people who have your story or your relationship or your lineage, what could you say for people who aren't familiar with your lineage that could help them understand what's important from from the and I know none of us can speak for all of any people, right, or any lineage or any tradition, or for any plan for that matter, but to give and uplift more voice to your community of origin and relationship. What? What could help people to understand your communities

Dr. Lola Ohonba  11:58  
better? For, first of all, for, like you said, not even within each community, there's so much diversity that we can even speak for each other, and it's okay, you know. That is what makes us special. That is the uniqueness of our world. For me, we when it comes to them, from Yoruba and Nigeria is in the western part of of Africa. And the main agent that we find in that area that is being like the river right now is the Bulgar root, the Iboga, the abogain is extracted from I grew up with the bukanga Africana species of the Taberna Montana, which are in the same family of the Iboga. So basically, our culture, our our community, they don't just see plant as just plant is a way of false fellowshipping. We have rituals with this plant. We believe that these plants have a spirit, and we communicate with that spirit. For me in growing up because I had polio. That was one of the reason why I found myself in health space, because I felt like this is a protect it's a preventative disease or ailment, and I wanted to help people to bring awareness to prevention and in our community, that's part of why I chose Dara. But so I spent more time with the baba Laos, because our first line of therapy is always the plant. And it's not contrary to what you hear from falls that, oh, Africa is this is that, no, they have hospital, they have everything. Absolutely leadership is the problem all over the world, including here at home. That is the issue they have. So hubs is what we go to. For me, having that situation, I had to spend more time with the baba Laos. The babalawos are like the shamans the Western Well, that's funny.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  14:26  
Next I was about to ask

Dr. Lola Ohonba  14:29  
the Shama, when you get a chance you want to know more about the Yoruba culture. Go to watch this Netflix. Bigger than Africa is bigger than Africa. Okay, we'll definitely make sure we do that bigger than Africa. You will see the Brazilians, the the Bahamas, the himans. You will even they have the Yorubas here in South uh, South Carolina, the baba Tala. They have the Yoruba uh culture. And there are people that African American border culture here. So the plant is our source of healing. Is our source of communication. And like I said, all these plants the even if conventional pharma studies where many of them were derived from this plan, an agent like the burger or Ibogaine has so much to offer us, yes, but we cannot just take it and say, Oh, we're gonna just this is like two edged sword. There's a good and the bad that we have to be careful of how we fellowship with this plan, and not just from the from my lineage from South America, even here from home in California, everywhere we have the indigenous people. And when we say indigenous, all of us are what I call concussion, we are all mixed together because you look like you doesn't mean you don't have heritage of indigenous in you. There's so much of us that is missed that you cannot even separate any one of us. So that is that, is it. I'm very passionate about preserving the way wisdom, because a lot of our ancestors are passing away, and they are going to meet their ancestor in the great beyond. Are we going to preserve this heritage for the next generation? Yes, and now also we going to also be able to reach out to the less privileged among us that might not have the resources to maybe pay for the whole addition treatment. What are we doing? Are we leaving any child behind? I am very passionate about President Bush idea of No Child Left Behind. I call it no tribe left behind. No tribe left

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  17:10  
behind. I love that. I love that. And I love, I love just generally, you know, the marriage and relationship that you have, not just in terms of the plants or even how you came into pharmacology, but also in terms of the relationship to all tribes that this isn't about, you know, just my tribe, and even the story you're sharing about that's available in this documentary, right? It's even your tribe, you know, was, is not stuck on one shore per se, right? And our perception of what it means even to be indigenous, should be expanded and that we we are all of of different tribes of origin. We now concussion. We are so mixed, so

Dr. Lola Ohonba  18:01  
I don't know even center food can can separate. That is why love is the language. Because when we when we don't show love to one another, we are being mean to ourself. Yes, indeed, if we take you dr Sandra, and put you in a sense, if they probably gonna have a little bit of Lola in, in you. I know we do. I know we are so so connected is we are like the fungi itself. If you look at the fungi, they're so connected, so rooted, so deep you can hardly separate, separate the root from from one another, yeah, yeah, yeah. And even, even the mycorrhiza build relationship as part of their nature, yeah, yeah. And

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  18:54  
I love this, and I'm curious to hear a little bit more about your journey. Since you know, you did come into relationship, you know, from a young age, in relationship with the medicinal qualities of the plants, and you said, also mixed with ceremony and in community, and a different mindset than what would be here in sort of like the global north or the western approach towards plant medicine. And yet, you've also built your own personal Western mindset, and because you've trained as a sort of more western tradition on pharmacology. So so how do you personally bridge both worlds in your in your practice? We don't have to talk about your teaching yet, but just meaning you as a person, again, coming back to you as a person, right, like having had that journey and marriage of of some might say, the global south and the global north as very much a strain pouring for a lot of people in relationship, wanting to come into right. Relationship with, with, with the world, all the tribes, as you say, right? What? How have you reconciled that for yourself as a pharmacist and also as a traditional indigenous

Dr. Lola Ohonba  20:13  
origin and practitioner I am. I've been in space where people think is either or right. And I tell people, I say, I cannot choose because I'm both That's right. And then I think we we limit ourselves when we say it has to be either or look, take, for example, is not everybody that is going to be a candidate for the plant medicine, because these are made average of forces on five pharmaceutics. These plants also have chemicals in them. They have structures that will react with some people's medicine. So it's not either or it's all on the table. For me, we can, we can take the benefit of what Mother Nature has kindly given unto us, but at the same time, there are people that needs the conventional pharmaceuticals, and we shouldn't make them feel like, oh, it's either or. The other thing is, is the fact that when we are talking about accessibility, access to this plant, all of there's no country that is going to be able to cultivate, especially in the age of organically cultivate enough say Iboga that is going to take care of all our communities. So how do we go about that? We have to bring Western technology to help us, and it's not everybody that is going to be able to travel to Peru, to to Gabon or to Cameroon, to go and have fellowship journey with the Iboga route or with the Ayahuasca peyote. So are we going to leave the rest of us behind? No, that is why we have to do whatever it is, even when we we extract and bring it into whatever form we want to present it so that access, we can have access. Can give it to people. It can be affordable to folks, right? All these are what we need to be conversant of. That's why, whenever I talk, I'm always pivoting to education, training being the real key, the connector bridge that is going to help us go where we need to be. Yeah, yeah. Well,

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  23:00  
what do you say to people, you know, and I know there's some some people have the position that they're too sacred, that to bring them into sort of like Western pharmacology, or to study them that way is actually a disrespect to the plant medicine or the idea of access is is not the way we should be going. We shouldn't necessarily be increasing access to something that's sacred if it cannot be done in a sacred manner or that there's a danger of, let's say, extracting these these or disrespecting these sacred plant medicines. What are your thoughts on that from your perspective.

Dr. Lola Ohonba  23:42  
First of all, I mean my culture, my background, I mean I was born into indigenous herbalism. Then we were we also practice Christianity as a religion. My dad, we will go to church in the morning on Sunday and in the evening, he will take his show and go to his oboni, like their their aquatic meeting. That's how I grew up. So Jesus himself was sacred, but he made himself accessible to everybody. He made him Mary Mandela, all this, he said, If you do not know no sin, did you want to throw the first stone to the people, to the woman they were calling prostitute? I respect where people are coming from, and I'm coming from a place of respect, but at the same time, if it's so sacred that only certain set of people can use it, what are we doing? Where is. Of does that mean the others should just kick the bucket? I am speaking for myself, and I'm coming from it, and I respect everybody's viewpoint. What I don't agree with is when the Western scientists start disrespecting the plant, start disrespecting the culture, start disrespecting the teachings of our of our forefathers. Start saying that, Oh, mysticism is the science we are yet to discover that is a lie. You cannot your science cannot explain out of body experience, your what happens when you take a burger, you die and you will reborn. What happen when you take Ayahuasca? Science is never going to be able to explain these plants are spiritual, and we need to not try to be explaining everything out in science, it's not it's not black and white. There is gray in there, and that is the part I want us to respect, that to be to to humble ourselves to the level that say we only know in part, and we prophesy in part. We don't know everything because we don't know we shouldn't try to explain any way these plants are sacred. But I cannot imagine Mother Nature saying I'm sending this secret thing over here, and it's just for you. Lola Sandra cannot have part of it. The wellness, the healing, is for us all. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't just go and grab and grab and grab we we should have a way to understand that there are people that have be the custodians of this agent and not be so greedy and give back in the same way, even if it's not in the same quantity, at least intentionally, do things and help the community, don't give them fish, teach them how to fish.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  27:24  
I love that. Yeah, and, and with that in mind, you know, I mean, it's interesting to me, like, because a lot of people have different ideas of what it means to treat something with respect or with sacredness, or to acknowledge traditional lineages, when, when there's obviously different perspectives amongst them. I mean, like a Bogo, which you mentioned, right? You know has there's also the boudi relationship, more people are probably familiar with their relationship, and not other tribes, right? Because we have very limited understanding from our outsider perspective, what and you mentioned about scientists, you know, having that sort of lack of respect or lack of, maybe even hubris towards what would be right relationship, while still it'd be important and valuable to have scientific involvement. Like, where do you think? Like, if you were to help scientists be better in how they come into relationship, what advice would you give them

Dr. Lola Ohonba  28:32  
from my first and I am not, I don't know everything. I just I am a non contrarian. I am non conformist. You is, I mean, we have any conformist

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  28:43  
here. I Well, the

Dr. Lola Ohonba  28:46  
way, I know, yes, the way, when I came out, started talking about this stuff, I barely, I don't even think I see, I saw any pharmacist in particular, is now we are seeing folks are coming out. What I what I will advise us, is that let us try to humble ourselves that we don't know everything, except when it comes to antiogenic medicine, antigenic beings, spiritual being, we do not know everything. If we start digging deep, we will be scared, and it's okay to not know everything. What I see us trying to do sometimes it's good to do research. And when I'm talking about this agent, I was in a meeting yesterday, and I was facing these investors trying to talk about an Iboga that's my passion. I will gain as the addiction disruptor to them, I said it's okay to to not know everything. It's. Science is I get passionate when I'm explaining the science of why this agent is able to do this, when I'm able to explain it in Science Time, and I'm very passionate about that's unique to science, that's beautiful. Well, at the same time, we can't explain everything out out out of body experience. How do you explain that? In science? You cannot explain using your ancestors, that is long dead, that you have never met, in a journey of peyote or Ayahuasca or Iboga, rite of passage ceremony. How do you explain that? Let and it's okay for us to say, I don't know everything, but I can also. Science can also help us understand it. Also, when science help us to understand the harm that this medicine can cause, we can prevent them, but at the same time, we can feed them with that sacredness.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  31:08  
Yeah, I love that, because like that already points out to like, there's different mindsets and different ways of looking at the world and different things that are we're able to talk about in a way that the framework of the of the discipline provides right that that science as it is currently structured, as far as I understand it, from my own western perspective, doesn't leave much space for the mystical, the the spiritual, and that that actually is, you know, unless we can reduce it to some form of science where we can look at the brain and we can see the brain activity, or we see the the healing, right, like so if you're engaging with your ancestor, we want to look at, you know, well, what's your what's your fMRI brain scan look like, right? But keeping that aside, I want to also uplift the plant medicines you're mentioning, and I hear the love in your voice for Iboga, and I know you also have love for cannabis. Could you speak a little bit about your your plant relationships?

Dr. Lola Ohonba  32:16  
I tell people, first of all, I want to say something right quick, then I'm going to pivot back. That is that because we don't see it, it doesn't mean it's not the take. For example, micro dosing said, Oh, that little, teeny, tiny thing can do nothing. Sometimes we put a little teeny, tiny salt and stuff. Because we are not seeing it doesn't mean it's not doing something, folks. I just want to drop that micro dosing there and and move on, because I know we can stay here for

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  33:01  
No absolutely. But I think that's a very important thing to add. I think that's incredibly valuable. My love for plant

Dr. Lola Ohonba  33:07  
medicine, like I said, just that is what me well, when it comes to cannabis, we I grew up in an environment where they tell you do not touch is exactly like the West. Oh, your brain on fried egg, your brain on drug. But I live with a family member that use cannabis recreationally for general, for years, decades, it happens to be the healthiest among the whole house of hardly get sick done very stressful work, and always go, go, go from me being in close contact with somebody that does that. And when, when legalization came out, and I saw everything happening out there. I said, look here, we have to give a face. We have to represent the plant. We have to advocate for the plant. If we stand for the plan, the plan will stand for I trust those plan more than the pharmaceuticals that i i gave folks from the pharmacy. Over 130 people dying of opioid how many people have died of cannabis? That is why education comes in. Because, yeah, we have different streams, different cultivars, different chemo that is coming on now becoming harder, and we've seen exactly what happened turning basic hydro coded to hydromorphone to oxymoron, fentanyl, that's killing people. They brought that into cannabis, and it's already going into psychedelics. When you start saying, oh, all cannabis, why do we need any agent to be stronger than th? See, that is how they modify these structures. It's not a plan that is dangerous. It's the modification, because you can't patent plant, so you have to modify it to to that. I mean, I leave that alone. So cannabis is a universal medicine. Is like a jack of all, trade, master of all. The endocannabinoid system is so special. Is so unique. It's crazy to say we it took us forever to discover it, just in the 60s, uh, me that we found the receptor, CB one, CB two. I do teach cannabinoid, uh, science and to healthcare professionals. So that is like a developed curriculum. And I love

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  35:50  
that you have that I love that you helped to bridge that, that gap and and have that priority on education. And maybe this is a great opportunity to talk a bit more about what kind of you know. You've, you've had a cannabis training for a long time, and and now you're, you have this new psychedelic training program, which does have some cannabis stuff. I believe in it as well.

Dr. Lola Ohonba  36:15  
Absolutely. Yeah, can, having to say it said it's an anti journey plan. People don't know that the Jamaican, the Rastafarian, use it for religious purposes and for their well being, but people, when you talk about psychedelic they just think, you ask, I

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  36:33  
include cannabis, but, you know, I don't get to define it for everyone. That's probably part of the reason you're here. This

Dr. Lola Ohonba  36:41  
is what they say, iron, sharp, net higher. We are both bringing so much to the table. And even our folks at home, they are bringing, yes, indeed, much to the high on sharpness. Higher.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  36:54  
I love that. I love that I may have to have remember that, but I love, I've always loved your heart and your spirit and and, and really, you know how inspiring you are as as a person, as a speaker. I mean, we originally met on on clubhouse, and connected there and had conversations there. And you, you are always really good about having rooms and doing outreach and education, and here you are still doing it, you know. I mean, I know where I'm doing education too, but still, we are together again. Now people can see our faces, but I would love to hear you share a bit about, you know, there are lots of different psychedelic practitioner trainings. I know Colorado is is now new in this in the sort of psychedelic practitioner training area, Oregon is now been around a little while, but it's still a newer program in the United States. And what can you say that you're bringing to the table that's unique, that brings to the community, something that is really should be paid attention to.

Dr. Lola Ohonba  38:12  
Yeah, thank you for pivoting to this after cannabis. First of all, we already the the sheep is already sale when it comes to legalization of antiogenic plant, psychedelics in particular. Now color, Oregon is already have a framework set up. Colorado is opening their program in January for healing center and education and all this other stuff is not gonna be like cannabis that you can just go into the dispensary and buy cannabis. You're not gonna be able to go in the dispensary and just buy Ayahuasca or buy silicon or buy a burger for that man. And it shouldn't be, because, yeah, this agent have extra um in them and harm reduction, like I said earlier, average western communities are on more than five prescription drug. Drug interaction is real. The programs that a lot of programs going on, I am humbly and not humbly say, I am unique in this space in the sense that I have extensive background in pharmacology and lifelong, lifelong life, if if there's anything like that in the indigenous of our medicine work, of our plant works. So those are the skills that I'm bringing to the table that you will not see out and you know, you've been to the class, you've been to the lecture, you've been to the conference, so we've put together a. For Colorado, we our program, natural medicine, celling, facilitator program is is model after the Colorado program, you have to go through this training to be able to practice in Colorado. And it's very essential, because I know the lot of physician a lot of clinicians, even indigenous, you are there. You are like a sponge. You attract everybody, the people listening to us at home. People need to get their training now. Make a calling. Making haze when the sun is shining. If you are a caterer or you are a farmer, when is sun is shining. I live in Florida, folks, that's when you get your grass, you dry it, you store it in your barn, not when it's raining or it's snowing. Because what is your what is your cattle going to eat when it's raining, you're not going to go in the rain, start grabbing stuff or go in the snow. That's why our elders say, Make ace when the sun is shining. Now is the time to get that training. If you are underground, you will be able to practice, have your training together, because that's going to be the criteria. The power that be are not going to let us just go and buy this age, and they shouldn't, especially when you talk about Iboga with the cardio toxic side effect that we have to manage. The other part is that we have tools platform. We have our app psyche into consult app that we are incorporating harm reduction tools similar to what we use in the pharmacy on this platform to help people. We are also helping corporations to navigate the space. So this program we have coming up in January, starting is a five months program, and we is a hybrid for we have info session coming up on the seventh of January, the next, the last info session. Well, if you don't take anything away today, just take it away that this is a multi million dollar billion for this being projected by the year 2030, 31 the mental health space is going to be over 500 billion. Right now it's about 300 billion. And I know especially those of us in the indigenous, in the in the holistic space, we shy away from talking about the money, part money, part is part of it. If you're if you are being called into this work and you don't have the fund to set shop, especially for women, we have to do everything to be seen in this space. If you don't have the fund to set shop, how are you going to reach those people dying of opioid, those people having addiction that we our military force. This is a generational wealth creation, and you are also doing good work to our community. So let us not shy away from talking about the financial the potential to create wealth, not just for this generation before we could use that wealth for and even for generation to come while we generational wealth, yeah, absolutely it is. It is essential to take these classes. And if you want to learn more, Doctor Sandra is going to leave our links. I'm not gonna to so, you know, leave the ball.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  43:45  
I'm very much care about giving people resources. And actually, it's gonna be my my next question for you, because, what? Because this is psychedelic source, and even though we definitely do not source medicine, just to make that clear, yeah, yeah. But we do source relationship community. You know, insight for your you know inner source for your inner guidance and connection. So, what, what advice? What? What do you have to offer and what, what do you hope to receive in in relationship, as a part of what you feel is a valuable source for people in this space,

Dr. Lola Ohonba  44:23  
for me, I just want to see receive smile in the face of people. I want to be able to reach out to our community. And when, even for this program that we have, we have different ways that we are trying to make it affordable and we are reaching out. I'm going to use this opportunity that if you are, if you you can donate to foundation. Take some we are. We use the endogenous society Africa for alternative medicine. We use funding to help. Help children in education and to preserve indigenous knowledge, as our elders are passing to be with their ancestor, and also to help people like our military folks to be able to enroll in these courses. I had one of them two days ago that we had the info session. He came on. He said, retire Navy. I said, You know what? I don't care how I do it. You are going to take this class if I have to pay for it from my pocket. That is it. So people, you can have like a task, free, tax exempt, and donate to those tests so that we can get more people trained. We can also reach out to more people in our community. What that is, what I'm hoping for, what do I want to give people? I want people to reach out to me. Don't if you have question, I'm a consultant. Yes, I, I train as a pharmacist, then I went back. I got more certification, more certificate as a consultant. Then I'm, I'm a psychedelic therapist and research. If you, you, you confused about you, you are, I wouldn't want to call it confused. You are at an intersession, and you feel like I really need help with this sliding. My DM is for me, this space is not about money. I tell my kids I can live on $5 an hour. I grow up with nothing, where you eat only once a day. We buy this bean. Spoil a lot of water you need put this kind of carbs in it. You when you eat it, you don't get hungry to direct for the rest of the day. My mom died when we were very little. So I learned how to grow up on my own. So I tell my kids I can live on $5 the $5 an hour is a luxury I can live. I've lived on very little. So it's not about money. It's about the joy, the peace that I see in people's face. And I want to encourage our community to reach out if you need us, if you need help, if you want to be part of what we are doing. No tribe left behind is what we do and we welcome everybody is all we are, concussion we are concussion is politicians that tries to separate us. We are one.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  47:39  
I love that, yeah, and, and I love that you both uplifted, not just you know, your own communities, right, but also other communities who are seeking that training, education and support. And thank you for also being such so so so humble and and being willing to share some of your own personal story in relationship to to money, right? And yet still saying like, you know, we want to make it affordable. We want to leave no no tribe, no person left behind as it were. But also it's okay to talk about money, and that is important to think about the next generation. And it kind of makes me think of a new mindset for what entrepreneurship means in in psychedelics and plant medicine and and not not avoiding that conversation, but being willing to talk about it, because, you know, we need it for our education, for our children for generations to come and and yet we don't have to take more than what we need

Dr. Lola Ohonba  48:48  
absolutely see part of why we want to go for it, especially women. I keep going to females, and when we say female, it doesn't mean female female feeling, however you address yourself, is who you are. Nobody should come and tell Lola you. This is who you are, who you are. In you is who you are. Life is too short for us to let other people define us absolutely Life is too short for all to let other people like I started even Jesus said, either who is going to throw the first stone life we are who we are And we should be proud of who we are. Life is too short to for us to let people put us in a box. Well,

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  49:48  
I'm so grateful that you are not in a box. Lola, I certainly would never, never try to put you in a box, or either of us, or any woman, and I also love that you're uplifting the. Women in identifying voices in this space and and we can't ignore the fact that we're both women identifying here and being educators, being advocates. What? What's some sort of thoughts you might be able to share to help any woman listening now, or any listener, however they identify.

Dr. Lola Ohonba  50:24  
I just want you listening at home to know that you are special, that whatever, especially this time of the year is a very challenging time. There is something called sad sudden affective disorder. Is kind of a depressive as the weather is changing and it's getting dark early, there is that tendency to be down, whatever you're going through. You are not alone, and you are special. And don't be alone. Reach out to your community. We are here for you. You are special. Whatever dream you're trying to reach. Go for your dream. Go for your dream. It's not going to be perfect. You. We fall and we rise up again. We fall and rise up again. Success is not about perfection. Is that making conscious effort to say, I'm gonna keep moving forward and go for your dream? Because at the end of the day, what are you gonna do? Gonna just go for it, live every day as if this is that is the last day. And for us, however we identify, you are valuable, you are loved, and you are special, and you should see yourself as that. If it's in the business, I want to emphasize, don't shy away from from the hustle out there. Let's, let's hunker down. There's always light at the end of a tunnel, and if you're going through a hard time, we are here. Community is here. Don't, don't suffer in silence, don't be alone.

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  52:25  
Reach out. I love that. I love that. So very much. It's such a beautiful, loving message to give, at least me, if I'm the only one who says, No kidding,

Speaker 2  52:37  
but everyone listening in and you certainly truly do live every day, living the dream and and taking action every day to help make this world a better place. And I love you so very much. Lola, I'm so grateful, and I want to say thank you for what you are, who you are, how the visibility that you bring to our community, you are special. You are a goddess. And folks, this woman, this lady, this amazing goddess, is special. Go, follow her. Take, uh, sign off for whatever she her heart is in a good place. She doesn't, I mean, she does ethics, but she's an ethical woman, I can testify to that. Oh, love you so much for having me today. Appreciate you humble me. Thank you so much. Always a blessing and a gift. Yes,

Dr. Sandra Dreisbach  53:35  
thank you very much. And thank you again for listening for this episode, and hopefully we'll catch you again soon when I think about ethical practice. And as it relates to this particular conversation I had with Dr Lola, I really do get inspired with just simply the idea of what one person can do in leadership and in community and showing support for one another. I know she, she brings me that in our relationship and and we just inspire each other and, and that's not something that's really discussed too much. Lot of times people focus on such a lot of the harms and the the risks. And I, and I'm definitely all about talking about the risks and challenges and helping to keep people safer and reducing those harms. But just like positive psychology makes an argument for what are the sort of things we're aspiring to be? What kind of example are do we want to be in the community, in the space, and how that, in and of itself, creates that sort of community resilience that allows us to face any challenge, as well as to be able to to talk really openly and honestly about topics that can be challenging at times, and that that sense of support you get in relationship that really is irreplaceable. So I hope that you get the takeaway from from this episode. You. Also this aspect of how, how supporting one another, how the positive, ethical aspects of of being living examples of relationship and connecting and supporting each other, not only adds strength to our own work, but to the larger community as a whole. So that's your your ethics. Takeaway. Much love. Thank you for joining me on psychedelic source. If you found value in today's episode, please subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share with others in our community. And if you're a psychedelic practitioner, therapist or coach looking to identify blind spots in your practice or determine next steps for moving it forward, take the first step by visiting psychedelic Source podcast.com Until next time, remember, start Low, go slow and stay connected to your source. You