The Secret to Building Trust in FinTech | Kimberley Waldron, Founder at SkyParlour

[00:01:23] Monica: Hello Kimberly. Thank you so much for your time and welcome to the show. 

[00:01:28] Kimberly: Yeah, great. Thanks for having me. It's a privilege and a great way to start the week. 

[00:01:32] Monica: Thank you. The pleasure is mine because we are going to cover such an important topic today. For the whole industry that is trust. So big, topic that we cannot even deconstruct in one hour, but we'll do our best to get into the, key parts of what trust is and how do we build it, but before we go into that, this podcast is about how can we build purpose driven FinTechs and have [00:02:00] more impact in society.

[00:02:01] So in your opinion, like you're an expert in the industry, you have an amazing career in your opinion. What is it that we can do as FinTechs to have more purpose and impact? 

[00:02:12] Kimberly: I think, starting with a big question there for me personally trust has never been blind, faith in my, personal life or in my business life.

[00:02:24] Apply that to the way I treat the brands or the individuals and the spokespeople within clients that we serve. So I think. Trust is about, to build trust, you need to have a strong, reason, a strong value, and then you need to be seen to be acting on things that help you get closer to delivering that, or to be acting in a way that delivers to, the, Either the purpose that you've set out or the objectives that you've set out to achieve and that slowly builds trust and credibility in your brand, your solution, your service and your people.

[00:02:57] In terms of how we can do that more [00:03:00] specifically now in fintech and financial services, I think Now's the time to stop living in an echo chamber. And I don't want this to be a call to arms, but we've had it good. We've had it good. It's been an industry that, talent investment was willing to invest time, effort, and really take a chance on if, we're honest.

[00:03:26] And I think that, that incubation period of the industry as a whole has started to come to an end, perhaps quite rightly. And I think in terms of building trust and demonstrating purpose, the focus now needs to be on how do we get more solutions. Into the hands of any users, whether that is B2B end users or whether that's B2C.

[00:03:48] And I think we've lived in somewhat of an echo chamber. It's, been necessary. It's been a hotbed of innovation. There's been test and learn. There's been change in regulation, which of course there always will be. But I [00:04:00] think as a relatively. New industry over the last 10 years FinTech has been able to do that.

[00:04:08] I think now it's time to have more great use cases, show more traction and whether that purpose be on a grand scale, and maybe it's a huge contribution to climate control or, whether it's just a commitment to deliver. Improved payment solutions or accessibility, whatever, how grand or however, small, maybe the purpose seems it's time to deliver on that.

[00:04:36] We've done a lot of talking, she says without taking a breath.

[00:04:38] Monica: I love that because then you're talking about basically, Hey, yeah, the industry are relatively new 10 years. It's now time to 

[00:04:48] Kimberly: show traction. But I think, yeah some would argue that financial technology or the long form of FinTech has been around as long as the banks have, and it has to some [00:05:00] extent, but I think the real brand.

[00:05:03] Of fintech as we've called it a good 10 years has been, our heyday. So I think, yeah, now's the time to just start to deliver to that. I'm not saying there shouldn't be continued support and, room to grow and test and learn. And Innovate, but I think, yeah, now it would be great to see some of those positive stories for the bigger and some of the flagship brands that we all associate with FinTech and also some of the smaller, more niche brands coming through 

[00:05:33] Monica: as well.

[00:05:34] Definitely. And before we go more into the conversation, can you tell us a little bit about you, Sky Parlor, and what's your purpose and role in the industry? 

[00:05:46] Kimberly: Yeah, I'd be happy to. Thank you. So Skyparlor is a specialist PR, public relations and communications agency. We've been working in the FinTech space since 2009.

[00:05:58] So started at a very [00:06:00] interesting, another very interesting time. It was founded by myself and my business partner, Angela Yor, and we're now a team of close to 25 with, clients across the globe. We have people over in the US. and a team here in Manchester and obviously also we have people in London as well.

[00:06:17] And our we, did start with a very strong vision. Most of our clients in the early days were payments and payments remains or payments related businesses remain the poster child of FinTech, I would say. But Payments clients, fraud prevention clients, and that remains today, but we've diversified across WealthTech, RegTech, some insurance, and also we do a lot of work around cyber security.

[00:06:44] But our purpose when we started, both Angela and I coming from in house within the payments fintech or fraud space, Was to provide a better form of communication for businesses in the space. It was as plain and simple as that. It's, definitely an interesting [00:07:00] one to navigate from the regulatory sensitivities to all the acronyms we all use day in, day out.

[00:07:06] The relationships between the banks, inquiries, the payments providers the regulators. It was a, tricky one to navigate. And we wanted to provide a service that helped. Make that clearer and helped bring the value of improved financial services to a new audiences. That was the purpose.

[00:07:26] And I think we've done that.

[00:07:27] Monica: Yeah, that's amazing. Now that you have it's been over 10 years since you started. What's your view on what is the role of a company like yours in the industry? What's the role of PR in us building impact and purpose? 

[00:07:47] Kimberly: I think it's, if I want to try to sum it up in a marketing spiel it is, to build trust across multiple audiences.

[00:07:56] Especially across all tech, but particularly in. [00:08:00] Finance and financial tech, you're speaking to a different audience, multiple audiences at the same time often. So whether it's talent, it's partners, obviously partnerships are huge when it comes to getting tech to the market channel partners.

[00:08:15] Investment, a huge important audience. Whether you're a startup or you're a scale up or even a scale out, invest the investment community, whether that's VC angels, PE, IPO that the markets, it's an important audience and talent at every stage, and customers of course. So I think for a PR agency.

[00:08:35] The greatest thing you can do is to build credibility. There's obviously lots of ways to do that. We're also there to provide that external advice. We all know when you're in internal business, you drink the Kool Aid as to use a overly used phrase. And that's not a bad thing.

[00:08:56] That's what you do. You're, when you're within an organization, you become [00:09:00] that, ambassador for your own tech and your own vision. So working with a third party agency that knows the space, our job is often to send a check talk about that might be great news for you, but is that news for the industry and be that barometer, but primarily it's to build trust and build value into, to what the businesses we work with are doing.

[00:09:23] Monica: then basically your your job is to build trust and it's like finding the elixir of life. Like when you ask any, FinTech, whether founder or CEO, product director, it's like, how do you build costs products and experiences that customers really like? Trust has to 

[00:09:42] Kimberly: be part of that.

[00:09:44] Monica: That response, it's it has to be part of the thinking. So before we deconstruct this even further, what is your definition 

[00:09:51] Kimberly: of trust? 

[00:09:53] Monica: I think it's

[00:09:55] Kimberly: a belief in the ability of another party to do what they say [00:10:00] they'll do.

[00:10:00] I guess it's their belief in the ability and the commitment and the character of an organization or an individual to do what they say they'll do. I think for me that's as simply as I could describe it. And if you you could debate it forever, but I think for some people, trust is the same as faith you have it or you don't.

[00:10:25] For me, I can't trust without seeing the evidence that organization or that person is trustworthy. I guess in your personal life, you trust your parents or you trust your friends or your partner. Maybe you do blindly or with faith, but for me, true trust is yeah the, your belief in the ability and the commitment of a third party organization to carry out what they say they'll do.

[00:10:54] And then that grows when you see the evidence and continued evidence. 

[00:10:58] Monica: Yeah, but I hadn't really thought about the like a definition as such. So it's like really good to start there because then if I, let's say if I'm a customer, just like all of us, right? Like how does this definition, how do you gain my trust as a customer? If you are a financial services institution?

[00:11:18] Kimberly: I think it's it's through multiple means in multiple situations. You can't build trust overnight. I think if you're, it's hard to think of financial services and FinTech without thinking immediately of the difference between the established brands and the newcomers. So immediately my brain goes to the likes of Lloyds and their famous journey ads.

[00:11:45] And then thinking about some financial services, FinTechs that have broken through and then some that are still trying to build that trust. But I think the first step is. Be seen and be consistent be, visible. So you have [00:12:00] to start to be visible consistently there in multiple touch points to start to actually become a brand, because when people associate a service or a product or a solution with a brand, we're so conditioned to then assuming that brand is supported by a set of values that you can rely on.

[00:12:19] We all know what to expect. We're, so trained in the consumer environment that you can, you should trust. And we're all we know of instances when you're let down then by that trust. And but we all have come to expect, a set of values associated with a brand. So to begin with, it is to show that you're committed to creating a brand and a business that stands for something.

[00:12:41] You show up, you're in the right places and you're consistent. For me, that's the first step, especially when it comes to financial services, because To trust a brand associated with your finances or your identity or the services around FinTech, you need to know that business is there and it's going to show up and it's not there one day gone the next.

[00:13:02] So first of all, it's being present. Would be, I would say the first step, I don't know if I can then continue if you like. I'm like, 

[00:13:11] Monica: yes, what would be the second step? Because I'm like, yeah, that's the first step. And, 

[00:13:17] Kimberly: and then I think it's, it is about stating not to go back to my own definition to fulfill my own profit definition of what trust is.

[00:13:27] But I think then it is about showing that you've got purpose and that you're taking the steps to. Delivered to that purpose and that's not the purpose is not good enough anymore to be to make money for investors or to make money for shareholders. I think that's when it comes back to the purpose of this, that the topic of this overall of this, podcast episode is.

[00:13:50] You have to have a purpose in the world now. It's not good enough to say this is my fintech and my purpose. I don't think it was that long ago when the purpose was quite, you could literally say, I want this investment. I want to cash out. I'm going to sell it to a bank and I'm off. I think there was a time when that could be inferred and it was okay.

[00:14:09] I think now the realization of how important. Access to financial services in there is it to the recovery of the economy to the growth in emerging markets to financial inclusion and equality globally and true globalization is so we've all become acutely aware of that. And I think now. As a, business in the space, you have to be willing and prepared to talk about where you sit also to be realistic.

[00:14:40] If you're coming out and saying, we're going to change this, we're going to eliminate global warming, it's not possible. So I think it's now it's about having. Be having a purpose, being clear about what that is, being willing to share it where your brand is exposed. So maybe that's a trade show, maybe it's on stage, maybe it's in  a podcast.

[00:15:00] So maybe it's through your own channels, your online literature and your, the way that your staff communicate through LinkedIn or other channels or the social forums. I think it's then demonstrating that you live by that purpose. I always love, and it's a really. It's an old one but the NASA attitude, I think it was this, the famous story of the janitor at the Houston space station, not space station, the, what's it I don't know what you would call it, the Houston space department, I'm going to call it and John F. Kennedy was, talking to all the different staff and he asked one of the, one of the janitors, Oh hi, so what's your, role here?

[00:15:43] And he said it's to put a man on the moon. So that everybody is working towards that shared purpose. So yeah, purpose and then communicating that every touch point and that's where internal comms is also important as well, because now we all know the, age of open communication and digitization is everybody in the business really is an ambassador of that brand.

[00:16:08] So yeah, be visible, show that you're committed to building a brand and something that's going to be around. Have a, strong but realistic purpose that actually relates back to your product and your service and then talk about that. Be willing to talk about it. We're still, we still have and often come up against, situations with clients where that adage of B2B PR is about.

[00:16:35] Communicating that you're faster, cheaper, more resilient all of those things that, and that's it's not gone those things are still important to customers, clients, partners but I think now there is much more emphasis on aligning values and understanding your place in the world and being willing to talk about that.

[00:16:58] Monica: I thought that you touched on  B2B because I had that question in my mind. If I'm a fintech, do I change my approach on whether my customer is a consumer and it's a B2C? Or if I'm trying to sell like this big software and to another fintech? Do you think? Will it, something would change? 

[00:17:16] Kimberly: Yes. I think there's been in recent years, consumerization of B2B communication as well.

[00:17:23] I think expectation and that's in terms of the way we communicate and in terms of the way that products are delivered also, I think the, on the one hand, innovation tends to happen in a B2B environment first and then gets almost test tested and then goes into the consumer market and consumers benefit a lot from.

[00:17:45] The behind the scenes innovation in B2B, but on the other hand, the B2B environment has learned a lot from the user focus on that user experience. And, I guess the way that we communicate to consumers. So there's [00:18:00] definitely been. We're we're a primarily B2B agency and we've seen the, I can only describe as a consumerization of B2B comms, as I said, it used to be product sheets and case studies and now it's, value alignment and do you believe in what we believe and are we working towards the same goals?

[00:18:20] Do our brands. There's still an element of this needs to work commercially and it has to work technically as well. Yeah. But, definitely we say to all of our clients, even the B2B ones, it's very, rare where there's not a B two B2C message anyway. If we're talking to a customer that provides technology only to retailers, but that retailer is usually selling onto a consumer or a very small business, can't ignore that message either. Definitely. 

[00:18:53] Monica: Yes. Because it's not purely B2B today. Most of, companies need to be to see [00:19:00] because that's how the ecosystem works. Yeah. So just to build on that, I don't think that we as a community of Fintechers. 

[00:19:13] Kimberly: Talk much about how 

[00:19:15] Monica: to build trust. So to ignite that conversation, what are the downsides of not building that trust or even not having the conversations 

[00:19:28] Kimberly: on how to build trust?

[00:19:29] I think to answer the second part first, I think if we're not, it can be easy to gloss over it, can't it? Everybody writes trust. Every, time we go into a workshop with a business in every single one without fail, we ask, a client or a potential client to write down all the things that they want their brands to be associated with or want their brand to be, and trust without failing every single one.

[00:19:55] I can't even remember one where it wouldn't have been. So everybody.  Uses it, but then we use it almost so much that as you're suggesting quite rightly, we forget to remember what that means, and how to really build it. So I think the conversation, the second part of your question how important is it to have trust in the conversation and to discuss it and also analyze it a little bit.

[00:20:20] Don't just give it lip service. Are we really being used because our customers trust us or are we just the cheapest, because trust means longevity. And let's be honest if you want to build a business with purpose, you want a business with purpose that people are going to, stay with, you're then going to be able to deliver to that purpose.

[00:20:42] But at the same time, if you've got. Clients that are customers that trust you and stay with you. You're then going to be able to sell more products to them. You're then going to go on a journey together. You're going to, and everybody benefits through that relationship of trust. Otherwise it becomes really transactional.

[00:20:57] Just perhaps the wrong word to use because most of the, most business in fintech is a transaction, of course. But in the sense of you're not building, you're not building anything. It's a who should I there's a lot of solutions now relating to payments or credit that are at point of sale more than ever.

[00:21:17] So if you don't have a preference in that brand, you are going to just use whichever you feel like at that moment, or whichever suits your need or whichever seems the cheapest, or whatever's first on the list. Whereas if you do have that trust with the brand, you will choose them, and people are usually willing to pay.

[00:21:36] A little bit more, they're willing to tolerate a little bit more. If they trust the brand that, you can, build on it. So I think it's, if we're talking about a purpose driven world, we all have to be on that journey together from the from the tech developers to the regulators, to the big banks and financial institutions and to the small businesses and end users.

 [00:22:00] We all have to be on that journey together. And you can't do that without trust. I know I sound like a PR person now.

[00:22:05] Monica: But it's perfect because like you say, it's a journey and I think you just touched a word that we all love that it's the regulatory. So what is the role of the regulatory in building trust? They have a huge role in my opinion

[00:22:20] Kimberly:  Yeah. I've always been of the school of the regulators, because to me, I have always taken it quite seriously that we're an industry that's at the intersection of ultimate trust between a brand, a service, an organization and its users and customers, because we're at the point where they say.

[00:22:43] Okay, go on then. Here's my money. I like the service. I like the marketing. I like your product positioning. I like your people I will give you my hard earned cash So that's where fintech sits and I think [00:23:00] the regulators their primary and only Objective is to ensure that money that's handed over Essentially that value is treated fairly and is protected.

[00:23:13] And I think sometimes we forget that's the role because we're, we've been so much about innovation and growth and investment and pushing the envelope and pushing boundaries. And we've been so desperate to see innovation get to market that we've almost overlooked at times. There's, I work with a lot of startups.

[00:23:33] That's been my focus for the last two years and I love it. I'm hugely passionate about it. I love working with the founders, but I think sometimes even now you get a great product, you get a great team, you've done your deck, you're ready to go. You've got maybe in a small seed round or pre seed round and still the regulatory conversation hasn't been had.

[00:23:52] You haven't engaged the regulator yet. I think there's still, that, that kind of thing is, taking place. So I, do [00:24:00] believe contrary to some people's beliefs, that the regulator is there to protect us all, and it's there to err on the side, they're there to err on the side of caution, and they're there to guide new technology and new organizations and new ways of doing things through quite a complex and Potentially vulnerable landscape if we're all transacting online.

[00:24:23] I think they could potentially have a better brand themselves because I'm not sure the regulators, maybe just speaking for the UK that their brand is perhaps not seen as collaborative and engaging, but maybe there's a little bit of work to be done on that, but I think the role is there to stamp of approval, if it's regulated, it's achieved a level of trust from those who know what that means.

[00:24:50] Monica: Yes, and I think I, agree with you, I'm of the, I'm of the camp of saying the regulator is very important and it helps protect customers, basically, because you [00:25:00] used a phrase that I love saying, it's we're giving our very hard effort. Thank you. Earned money or hard earned savings to someone like it's nerve wracking, like investments.

[00:25:11] It's the first product that comes to mind. You're like, Ooh, I've been saving, but then I'm going to put this into investments. Oh, the first line that you say is. Your money will, may go up and down. You should put it under your own risk. And you're like, ah, I may lose my money. Yeah. 

[00:25:30] Kimberly: . If it was there's two, two other points to add to that for me is whenever you talk about not brand trust, but I guess trust or.

[00:25:40] I don't know if we've all changed our viewpoints since obviously the wire card scandal and subsequent things where you just assume if something's Been regulated and it's happening that you can trust I suppose but then you know, there's obviously in every industry. There's nefarious characters or Operators or bad actors that will you know act in their own best interest, [00:26:00] but there's Something that gets forgotten largely around fintech. I'm not just talking about payments, I know you mentioned when you're going to invest. But I think in the UK, specifically in the UK market, we see financial services almost as a utility or something that we're owed or should be free.

[00:26:20] Obviously we don't pay for, we don't pay for banking unless we choose to pick a package that we do. And we think we don't pay for payments. But we do pay for payments and the merchant pays for payments and quite rightly because. Mainly people using the services don't understand the infrastructure behind it.

[00:26:41] You don't understand what takes place. I was in a black cab in London last week and I didn't want to be that person that works in FinTech, but there was a sign saying, I prefer cash because I don't get the full amount. And I thought, why is that image in financial services come from, even [00:27:00] from small businesses or independent traders that they, you shouldn't have to pay.

[00:27:05] For to be able to have a terminal to take electronic payments that go off over the internet back that you've verified that payment's then taken, then passed onto your bank account. It's a funny view. And I think if we saw financial services as, a service like that, or payments as a service like that, you become more invested in the brand if you think you're paying for it.

[00:27:29] Whereas I think in terms of growing trust or brand equity, it's a funny, it's a different situation because we see it as a utility, almost like you should, I should get that. That should be free. That should be happening. That should be safe. Whereas if I think. There was a more understanding in small businesses or in or consumers, of course, that's where the numbers go up to the millions that are using financial services.

[00:27:54] We would have that feeling of actually I'm paying for this service. So I expect that this is taking place. Whereas I think now. We just assume that it's some overlord of finance that's doing it. Whereas if we understood the different brands behind it, we might have more questions or who is this?

[00:28:15] Are they regulated? Whereas I think that doesn't really fall into the psyche of most end users of financial services at the moment, whereas if we understood that it's almost like the advertising standards authority. That's quite well known amongst consumers and small businesses because we see that we're paying for things or being given things that we are, but we don't see that with financial services.

[00:28:39] I think there'd be more question around and more support for regulators. If that 

[00:28:42] Monica: makes sense. Yes, definitely. Because you raise, a very, good point, which is not only it's a commodity, but it's for free. We expect it to be for free. But then if we were paying for it, we would start seeing all the [00:29:00] value that goes behind it.

[00:29:01] Maybe understand even how the industry works and it's oh like they have to pay for all this infrastructure. Of course, customers don't need to understand all of that, but at least yes, understand that there is. A whole industry with a lot of costs behind it. 

[00:29:18] Kimberly: Exactly. And it's not a conversation that your friends, thank you for over a drink or at the dinner table. I've tried a few times, when somebody said, Oh, I was so annoyed my Amex didn't put a transaction through and I was furious. And then you start to talk about why that happened or why that matters or why they were being.

[00:29:40] Cautious or protecting you and then it just does never goes down well.

[00:29:43] Monica: So I'm going to step back a little bit and then coming back to trust. If we were to distill all this conversation, what do you think is the secret to building trust with customers? 

[00:29:58] Kimberly: I want to answer, try to answer that without, repeating myself. I think it's about, delivering to your promises and I don't want it to be, sound so simple, but it is. It's about delivering to your promises or your commitments and being open and honest about your journey and being present and being there.

[00:30:20] And I still think there's a lot to be said for. Investing in the human face of things, which I know right now we're going through the AI revolution and there's a lot of questions, concerns a lot of debates, but from the point of view of brand building, there's still a lot to be said for.

[00:30:44] Leaders and leaders come and go but, and that's fine. Everybody knows that, but I think having visible leadership and accessible leadership and in in a, brand, in a B2B brand also is important. I think [00:31:00] it's not a secret source building trust. I do, believe it's. Delivering on, setting out your purpose, delivering to that, talking about how you've delivered to that and being visible and consistent across multiple touch points where you know, your customers reside, whether they prefer to read magazines, whether they prefer to get all their information on LinkedIn, whether they trust podcasts, when they go to trade shows, events, it's making sure that you show up for them, showing up for your customers.

[00:31:35] Monica: Basically you were saying there is no secret sauce, but as you were saying that, I was like, yeah, but there's a recipe basically you just gave us the.

[00:31:44] The things that you need to be doing and I want to add to that or more like not challenge that but it's more like put that into practice when it comes to blockchain, web3, crypto, AI, all [00:32:00] the emerging technologies that even people within the industry were still like not a 

[00:32:06] Kimberly: hundred percent sure.

[00:32:08] Monica: What are the challenges that you think we'll have to build trust around these new set of fintechs or these new products or technologies? I think 

[00:32:21] Kimberly: the biggest challenge for all of those, and I do feel slightly differently about all of them. I won't lump them together, but I do think the biggest challenge for all of those you mentioned is the fact that they genuinely probably haven't earned trust yet or have the opportunity to earn trust.

[00:32:37] We've talked a little bit about how trust can't be born overnight and you have to put the effort in really, and it's an old phrase, but I think they haven't had. The opportunity to earn trust yet, and particularly when it comes to. Decentralized finance and technology around that, that industry,  it's challenging that trust and that credibility is being challenged almost on a daily basis, whether that be in Netflix series, whether that be in chat rooms and forums, whether that be in news about the markets, that is the challenge. That is the challenge. And we do work in that sector and we're taking each individual organization on, on its own merit. It's still a super new sector and it's got challenges and it's not, it's a multifaceted. That's still quite dependent on individuals and characters and personalities behind some of the biggest brands.

[00:33:42] And it's, in its infancy there and there's been as much to discredit. The value and the trust as there has been to build it. And I think, I do think that, I think we all we do all agree on that. And I think that nobody disagrees on the potential of some of the new [00:34:00] technology, but I think people are uncertain on how that's perhaps being applied and how consistently that's being applied and for what purpose, who's benefiting.

[00:34:10] So I do think that's going to be a challenge for the next few years. And it's not, easy to PR either, but I think the advice there is the same. It's be consistent, be transparent, set out what you're going to do, deliver to that PR. Something I always say is. PR isn't just about what you say.

[00:34:33] We can talk about great things. PR's famous for spin and putting positive emphasis on certain things. But to all our clients, we say, you have to do the positive things too. If you want genuinely good PR, you can't just talk about yourself and the great things. You have to live up to those as well.

[00:34:52] You have to take the steps to support the messaging and that's when it becomes really powerful. I think the same as Has to happen in  those verticals that you discussed. It has to be given a bit of time. Yeah. There's going to be failures and there's going to be more Netflix documentaries. Cause it's interesting, it's a, so yeah I think it's patience, consistency, delivering it's not good enough anymore to say, DeFi promotes financial inclusion and growth in emerging markets, yes, it has that potential, but we need more genuine.

[00:35:32] Examples and use cases of that. And of course that differs. The application of those technologies differs greatly in different parts of the world as well. Where the need is greater. So for example Latin, America or Southern America, South America, there's a lot more obvious applications of the use of, DeFi or stable coins and things like that's more obvious.

[00:35:58] So I think we need to focus on the right technology for the right need in the right place. And we'll see those use cases coming through.

[00:36:08] Monica: And like you said, it's about also having evidence, not just talking, but having evidence that it's working and having the use cases and it will take 

[00:36:17] Kimberly: time, I think. Yeah. And, I think PR has always been. I'm not going to try and remember on a Monday morning, but obviously PR is known is most powerful when it's other people that are endorsing your business for you, whether that be journalists, people like yourself, the finfluencers, as we've, as they're becoming to known, or even large independent organizations or the regulators if, new emerging technologies, they want the backing.

[00:36:48] Of the trusted organizations and brands and some of the big brands that'd be the World Bank or governments we, that'll help to endorse the value. Definitely. 

[00:36:59] Monica: Yes. 

As you talk about that, I was just thinking. Trust and change and purpose  and evidence. And of course, one of the things that we as a community in fintech are working towards to is to be more inclusive, to have more diversity.

[00:37:16] Which practical actions can we take to improve that diversity? Because I think it comes back to trust as well.

[00:37:24] Kimberly: I agree. I think we're all learning every day. And I think there's been a number of, I guess observations of mine over the last 12 months that have meant I've had to alter my thinking and I think it's about making no assumptions and everybody, every organization, whether you're a large established organization with years behind you of company values and millions spent on ads and best practices,  or you're a new business just Putting together your careers page and your your D& I policies.

[00:38:08] Always assume you're starting from nowhere and review those practices and policies and values on it, almost with the passion of it's day one and, making sure that you're not making assumptions about things. It's hard to, I'm just going to put it in the right words. We're an international, Industry and that is, we're all we, shy away from the word global because people feel you have to then be in every country let's be honest, financial services, FinTech, we're a global industry and the needs, the requirements, the understanding, the education across the globe varies greatly, the landscape is huge and diverse.

[00:38:51] And I think you have to, we do need to take a role in lead of leadership. And especially if you're building a multinational organization. It's highly important that you, your policies, your procedures, your practices cater to that, especially when it comes to diversity inclusion. And I think, it's not something to be paid lip service to.

[00:39:12] I think being open, publishing your values, acting on them. I can't repeat that one. I think I'm saying, but I'm not, it's not meant to be. What did they say? Say five different ways in seven different locations, but no, I do think it's about starting from a very, genuine place of having.

[00:39:35] Diversity and inclusion values procedures and policies that are, informed, supported and backed up and taken seriously and then publish them and act on them. And treat it's, if you're a fintech, you have to be, you have to have a global mindset. It can't just apply to your home country or, And there's different  levels of education, understanding, social issues and understanding and we need to take that seriously.

[00:40:07] But we need to be more visible about it, it has to be on your website, it has to be Because then we can be accountable, can't we? If things are not public, then who's holding who accountable if we're prepared to be public about that?

[00:40:22] Monica: I like that as, I like that as a kind of like the one thing that we can change in addition to everything that's going on. It's be accountable, publish the progress or the lack of progress and the challenges and the wins because then it 

[00:40:36] Kimberly: makes us accountable.

[00:40:41] Monica: Yeah. Definitely. So as we move towards the end of the episode and talking about diversity, there is a lot of women in the industry as such that they, at least they come to me and they probably they come to you as well.

[00:40:53] And they ask Hey, how do I build my personal brand? So as a  PR expert. What do you think fintech professionals should be doing to build their personal brand? And what is a personal brand?

[00:41:08] Kimberly: I think there's a lot of, firstly, I wanted to say, I think there's a lot of pressure on professionals within the fintech industry to be, to have a strong personal brand or to be a personality or to be a finfluencer. And I'm not a keen on that word, but I can't stop saying it at the moment. It's like my pet word.

[00:41:26] There is, pressure on individuals now to feel if you're not speaking at events, if you're not doing something outside of your day to day role, if you're not part of groups or demonstrating your values as an individual, supporting certain themes that you're not adding value. So I would say that.

[00:41:46] Your personal brand is everything from how your colleagues see you to appearing on podcasts like this. It's a whole range. And it has to be very genuine and, personal to you. I have spoken with a lot of people, especially in the last 12 to 18 months that have felt that pressure to build personal brands.

[00:42:06] And it has. People taking LinkedIn breaks and things like that. So I do want to say that I think you can still be fantastic in your career and still add value and you don't have to be a personality, but your personal brand, of course, is something that will assist you, create opportunities, help demonstrate your skills, your values, your achievements, and it becomes almost like your thumbprint.

[00:42:29] It becomes like your professional identity. And now we have these channels to be able to do that. I think that's a positive thing. I think. The best thing you can do is to decide if that's something you want to do. And once you decide, yes, I think starting to build my personal brand is something that's going to help me get to where I want to go in my career and something I might enjoy, then you need to be really clear on setting aside time to do it.

[00:42:55] Because it isn't it isn't easy and it does take time to prepare,  to post, to do things well, to engage, and I know that when I've, started to think, oh, I'm going to post regularly, I'm going to comment on this, these are the things I care about, and then you get wiped out because you're too busy, or you're you can't engage, it, it becomes a pressure, so I think going back to my mantra about, being consistent.

[00:43:23] The first thing to do is to set yourself, if you're going to do anything and you're going to do it well, set yourself aside some time to do it. Do it properly. Decide what you're going to do. Is it going to be LinkedIn? Are you just going to start by being regular on LinkedIn? If that's the case, what are the things that you want to talk about?

[00:43:41] What are the things you want to follow? Which are the groups you want to join? What are the topics that you've got value to add to? As opposed to just, I'm gonna, this week I'm going to talk about trust, this week I'm going to talk about diversity, next week I'm going to talk about fraud, then I'm going to go off here and go that what are the things that you want to invest your time and be associated to that, matter to you, and then, I, it's hard when it's just one person, but if you're not working with an agency, there are still individuals that are there to help you and support you in terms of the things you need to appear to nobody, we can't lie, it's competitive.

[00:44:21] So if you want things like high quality audio, you want graphics, you want good photos, good imagery. There are a lot of, Individuals outside of agencies that are there, that are affordable to help put that stake in the ground in terms of quality. Because you'll know Monica, you're creating something today's present guests accepted of high quality, content and some, and the effort that goes into that.

[00:44:50] So I think once you know that you want personal brands to be visible what things are that you care about why you're building your brand. It is important to think about how that then appears and what you're prepared to invest in it because We're not in a world anymore where you can just be disruptive and go online and then you'll get a cult following you know, we are In a highly competitive digital environment and you, want to look professional to look good to have the right images, the right graphics, the right logos, the right sounds.

[00:45:19] So I think seriously take to think about it, but definitely the first steps are to decide. You're committed to having a strong personal brand the things that matter to you, the things you want to talk about and the time you can set aside to do that. Again there's no magic sauce for it.

[00:45:36] Monica: No. And I think that's key. A lot of people underestimate the amount that it takes to post regularly on LinkedIn because like you say, it's like, Oh yeah, I'll post about this and this but it's takes time to build a system in your mind. Like what you're going to talk about. You don't want to just.

[00:45:54] Say anything has no be relevant as well. So 

[00:45:59] Kimberly: It does take time and I have heard , you know there are funnily enough. I was just in the hairdressers yesterday, and it's a well known Brand within the space and they were talking those two two ladies there who were talking about one of their colleagues who had been engaging in conversations around something slightly controversial not horrendously, but yeah, it was divisive.

[00:46:24] And they were doing that in the public arena knowing that they were listed as an employee of this brand on their social channel. And then the salon received some. Calls and things like that. So not, to be negative, but just to be aware that if you are operating within, social or public domain, and it is largely professional, you're there in your professional capacity that, that nowadays that, is something to consider managing as well, because there's definitely been.

[00:46:54] Examples, especially, there's some really great examples when it comes to third party organizations that support [00:47:00] the government that have been made a comment on something and it's been found and a journalist has then found that's the person and then uncovered it and then gone into more detail, looked on there.

[00:47:11] So I would say it's also something you, once you start to build your reputation, you also want to be keen to protect it. And just be aware you have to do something as if anyone could see it.

[00:47:21] Not to be negative there's a lot about public relations that is protecting your reputation as well as building 

[00:47:28] Monica: it. It's been an amazing conversation. Where can we find more about you and 

[00:47:34] Kimberly: Skype Artwork? You can, on, on our LinkedIn page, on our LinkedIn channels or Kimberly Waldron or SkyParlour you can contact us directly, info at SkyParlour.com. We are usually at the main trade shows and events. This week alone, I'm at three. So yeah, we're at all the major trade shows and events between now and the end of the year as well, but we're here. You can just call us, DM us. Great time to be thinking about PR as well. 

[00:48:03] Monica: Yes. And then just as the very last question before we go, if you could change one thing in FinTech to make FinTech positive impact in customers, colleagues, and investors,  what would that be? Just one. 

[00:48:20] Kimberly: Oh, I'd like us to focus on what value we're really in. I'd like to look at the industry with, without rose tinted glasses, get rid of the echo chamber.

[00:48:31] And as I said, going full circle, really focus on getting things back to the end users. So I would take all of the. Funding out and look at what stands on its own two feet just, for a day. So if it's almost like draining the ocean, drain the ocean of investment and funding and just look at what's really making a difference and all have that perspective for a day.

[00:48:54] So we can then focus on more of that moving forward. That's a dream. That's not going to happen 

[00:48:58] Monica: but it's a very strategic [00:49:00] approach. It's do not focus on. Not the noise, because it's noise, but do not focus on the funding look really at what we're doing and if it's having impact. In isolation. Yeah. 

[00:49:13] Kimberly: Yeah. I like that. So we can focus on that moving forward. 

[00:49:16] Monica: Yes. Kimberly, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.

[00:49:20] Thank you so much. No, thank you. Thank you. It's been great. Thank you. Likewise. Thank you, everyone. See you next week. Bye bye. Bye.