Narada Michael Walden Part 2

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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio Yo.

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Speaker 2: It's Up Everybody. It's Fontigelow from Questlove Supreme. We are back with part two of our conversation with Nada Michael Walkin.

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Speaker 1: This is an amazing two parter.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't, please check out part one where Narrata talks about his Michigan upbringing, his deeply transformational time with the Maha Vishnu orchestruct Who Little Brother, Sample, Plug, Plug, Chikaia and Bore. Is April Jazz Appreciation Month, and this two parter certainly celebrates the genre and culture and I would shape so much music outside of the genre.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy.

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Speaker 4: There's a question I've been dying to know in the mid seventies jazz cats Now in the case if you're Miles David's disciple, I understand, Like m two May already explained to us that Miles' dependency he was getting out of control in the early seventies and then he's basically not too functional and the bands left without work and they're basically like, well, we got to pay the rent, and you know, m to May and Reggie Lucas of Miles Davis's you Know band were like, well, shit, we got to write some hits to pay the bills.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Can you explain to me why there was such a mass exodus of fusion musicians of jazz musicians that all of a sudden in the mid seventies became the architects and the proprietors of some of the poppiest songs we've ever heard.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like a complete opposite. What was the.

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Speaker 4: Transitional decision process to get out of fusion and into pop music?

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Speaker 3: Very good? I got you my third solo album, we call Awakening. I was cutting it in La Stevie Wonders studio and Wayne Anderson was one of the producer type people with me and his teams and all that. And then I got a call after I was cutting that music. You know some cool stuff that Jim Dellahant from Atlantic, who's my an r. He said, you know what, if you don't have a hit on this next album, we're going to drop you. And that was the word of death to me. I knew that things were going through a change. He told me. He said, in New York this goes hot now dancing the Steve fifty four people. Really, it's like a big craze we really suggest that you come to New York and see what's going on. And I did, and when I went there, I felt what he was talking about. It was on firewood dance, and that wasn't hard for me because I'm raised with motime, I'm raised with people all kind of music. So after I cut the Awakening stuff in California, I decided to make side side of one that was strictly for dance and saved my career and not be dropped. And I used the examples of Rick James, you and I. He was a good person for me to kind of draw from because it was live drums, it was funky, it was live, it was horns, things I loved, and it was a style I could pull off. So in my hotel room at the Hilton in my I got a clavenet in the Roads in my room and I wrote four jams and I don't want nobody else won those jams. And I was so lucky to get Bobby clem Out from Power Station to be my engineer. What records he made with Chic on Good Times. I had never heard a more beautiful record than fucking Good Times. And it haven't be my engineer to get my drum sound. Yeah. See, so I'm cutting those records. I don't want nobody else. And then guess what else? Now, I got Randy Brecker coming to come in with Michael Brecker and David Sam want to put horns on my jam. So it's real musicians see it. So I'm happy. And then they said you got to use the cat who's big of a disco named Patrick Patrick Adams. Yes, because his name in the disco world with the strings and learning, he does well. Make sure you you know. So I said, okay, so you know. And he didn't come around there that much, but you might come out of love with a little sound on something to do a little thing a little and he was cool. What I'm saying is cutting that music. And then when I had success with that sound, it saved my career. At that time, I didn't want to be dropped. I wanted to be a strong person to make it. I just got married. I want to take care of my life. And it's fusionary music as we know, it was going away the people in the fans, for example Garden Love Light, that album didn't sell that much. I wasn't. I wasn't like some overnight star people. They were not they were not supporting, but they supposedly loved the fusion at those times going forward in the seventies early on, yes, but not those years. Those years it was a change up going on. Even even Lenning whit wouldn't my man return to forever? Those everything's kind of like, NA, So what are you gonna do? Be you know what I mean? If you're gonna support me, fine, we're making money, no money, I'm going I'm going to save my life. I did, brother, I got. I'm happy I did. It was wonderful, wonderful, and every out I do I was put, you know, a Son's dancing type jam on there. So I can still do that and I love it right, But I'm about having a radio hit and making some money, so I'm not shining shoes.

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Speaker 4: I know that you've had Randy Jackson in your stable since he was a teenager, and not Michael's brother, but Randy Jackson, American idol, r Andy Jackson since he was sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years old, I believe, but I always thought that was him killing I should have loved you. Someone told me like two weeks ago that was TM Stevens.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 4: Please can you please tell me just about Tim Stevens and tell me what it was like working with them.

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Speaker 3: Team's a genius. I was in New York, I still lived in New York. I met Tiam before I moved to California seventy eight, So in seventy seven round those years I met t him. You know, he'd be like the stee you wonder the bass. He had that kind of power, that kind of energy, like a like just a huge band with the strength of God in his hands. And they could play Bookoo like that to be popping the two in the four as he's playing with lines right and just he was playing with a show called Your Arms Too Short the Box of God. And he had a drummer named Howie Great from Queen's and how he became my connection out in the Queen's area. All those good drummers out and people ou in Queen's area too. See, so now here's TM Steve. I mean, all these new cats are coming up with the great skills. And then as it worked out, I had to do a tour for I don't know a best dance with you, So I had to put a band together so I asked Tam drummer my touring band, you know, and Philip's says out of at Berkeley to play keyboards, and Pat Throw from Automatic Man from California come and play guitars and put a hot band together and toured and then came time for my fourth so woul become Dance of Life. And now I'm living in San Francisco, so I thought, I'll bring TM Stevens out here to work out this new material with me. And I know I still have to have another hit. I'll be dropped. So as it worked out, I brought him to California, be a little warehouse in Oakland. I said, team will play a game with you. I'm gonna play this groove on the drums, And every time I hit I hit, the symbol changed baselines and he'd be playing the baseline whatever it is right now. Then I had the symbol again, he changed. I cranked the symbol again, he changed. Then finally crap should have that I did? That was that's his massive baseline. Ran Jackson wasn't around then. That came. He came later, but I didn't think I find anyone whould play. I should have loved you like TM Stevens. He's the most massive cat in the world.

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Speaker 4: For the longest I thought it was when you know, it came out when I was eight, so I thought it was chic initially. Yeah, but shit, I'm just realizing now. Before she passed away, we had Ali Willis on the show, Yes, and she was this mind blowing that we knew our whole discography only because a lot of the work that she did wound up being like iconic samples that we would later gravitate towards. And so she was kind of weirded out that we knew her history. But how did you link up with her to write that song?

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Speaker 3: Well, okay, she's in LA I'm in San Francisco, and I hear about her work because of the Maurice White earthmen and fire stuff that I was exploding with her name on it, right, I knew she was mean somehow or other. I came into touch with her because of her publishing people, the company she was part of, Almo Irving, and I could find her number. Then when I talked on the phone, come to find out she's from damn my hometown, Detroit, Michigan. I'm from Kalamazoo she's from Detroit, so we had a kind of a bond immediately, and that I loved what she was doing. She said, well, come down to my house. So I did. I brought my eye should Love you down to her house. And our house was all what's that word? When everything's like old fashioned looking, old dolls and old things and everything old.

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Speaker 1: We've been there a career before.

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Speaker 3: So that was kind of wow. Okay, But we sat down and wrote the lyrics for I Should Love and she was just mean how her brain thought, you know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's so wait. She she's had that house of kitchen art there was.

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Speaker 3: Tesy no, there's two. Was first house she had was become a smaller apartment house. It wasn't a big one, it was smaller, but it had all that stuff in it. Then later on, as we became even closer and friendlier over over years, then she got the bigger house that you're talking about, and we were always tight then too.

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Speaker 4: Tell me about the process of going into producing and what did you learn that you couldn't apply for yourself that you wound up giving two other artists.

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Speaker 3: Well, at that time I was hot with that I should have Loved you time all right those records. Why did you turn me on? And I asked Henry Allen, who was the president of Contillion Records. He's a partner with Atlantic Records. Black gentleman, Henry Allen, you gotta know about Henry Allen's He and his team. They had signed Stacy when she was about eleven and they made recording but it wasn't doing well. So I said, Henry, you know this girl, Stacy, why don't you let me do some songs on her. I'll do four songs. If you like him, I'll finished the album. If you don't like me, I haven't lost much as four songs. And he said, you know what, it's a good idea, go dude, do her. So I took it very, very seriously. This is my first real shot at pop production. My first jazz production was just before that, a cat named Don Cherry. Then now I'm gone to Restauranta Rose more jazz, you know, with Tony Williams and Lenny all that stuff in the pop world. Yes, it was Stacey Lantisa. So then I wrote these songs with a girl named Bunny Hull Buddy. It came to my house in San Francisco and my wife at the time, Lisa, Lisa Walden, I wrote these songs let Me be your Angel, Dynamite jumped to the beat, and I flew to go to Stacy's house. She had a very small house and like a little spin at piano and I just got on her piano and just kind of went through these teach teaching me the songs so make sure the keys are writing and all that, And then came back to San Francisco at the Sauce Leado record plant where Prince then made his first album. In there, I got my big drum sound Tommy Tommy Fly, the same guy that did for James' records on the Maybe Angel Dyning My joke, got a great sound with my band Karado guitar, TM on bass, Frank Martin on keyboards, and laid that stuff out. Mike gives strings, laid it out. Then went to power Station to get her vocals on those songs, and here she said, about eleven years old, that big voice you hear, and just I wanted to get it just right, and we did and it became his for us. So I'm just very very very very very proud of that time. And it opened up a lot of doors from me because because of that, Cam then Clive Davis calling and everybody else calling because I had that kind of sucessful stage and the stays actually to open them for Michael Jackson and Jackson five. That's how to get big. She got with Tiam Steven's on base.

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Speaker 2: I was on to ask what that work with Stacy and then also going on with Sha Nice and Tevin Campbell. What was kind of your I guess you're your formula for working with children, because that's something that's really hard to do, like to write material that is can't sell, but it's also his aging appropriate. You know what I'm saying. How did you kind of figure that out? And you know, kind of find that balance.

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Speaker 3: You have to have a great hook. The hook is worth will always save you as far as making money on music business. The hook, of course, and I'm always aware of, like, well, who is it Stacy, she's eleven twelve. This whole angel concept is always cool, you know, and then she could talk. You know, you might think I'm too young to understand, but don't be fooled. You know, like a child, you know, I look into your eyes and I know someday, you know, I'll make you mine. I don't make kiddie music. That doesn't work. I learned from Michael Jackson the early I want you back. You know those records. You got to make records that everyone can party to, faboots. So I didn't travel make kiddie records. You mentioned Shoannie Wilson. She came here, she was sixteen, and I said, right down seven song titles, and she did justish, I hate to be lonely. I love your smile and I want my to keyboard, and just wrote those songs and God blessed me. Just I love I love you know smiles. Just looking at her, you can feel the energy coming off her and that smile. She's gone. That's what it was. Tavin Campbell, when Quincy Jones brought him here, I looked at him, just so beautiful, thin, a genius thinger like Whitney said, well, you need you need the song, showcase your voice and like a big a tour the fours man. I said, which what you want to do, Tavin, Yeah, tell me what you want me to do. That's just that's simple. Then you gotta put the big modulation so you can really go on.

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Speaker 1: Right right right.

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Speaker 4: Jimmy jam kind of teases me because when I was a kid, whenever a song would modulate, that would scare me.

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Speaker 1: And so because it sounds dramatic. Yeah, and so wait, but here's the.

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Speaker 4: Thing, you you know, often, in my obsession with historical firsts, I will actually say that if someone were to be credited with like the really first attempt at New Jack Swing, yeah, I would say Attack of the Name Game.

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Speaker 1: Might be the.

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Speaker 4: First experimentation of making a singer sing on a backtrack, that is that could be made for hip hop. All right, So for those that don't know, was it the Sneaking Out album?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so stay I see a lot of songs.

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Speaker 4: I mean, well, I know she had albums before let Me Be Your Angel, So I would say her fourth album, maybe a third or fourth album. Yeah, But there's a song Attack of the Name Game, which even when I heard it as eleven year old, I was like, oh, this is kind of made for me. Like this, this isn't a song that my dad would gravitate towards because this sounds like rap music.

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Speaker 1: That I like, what was the process in trying to go there?

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Speaker 3: Thank you? That's very cool man. Two things. One borrowing from the sixties idea of you know, a banana fan of fol fan of me and my mom. Man had taken that vibe, which I actually to pay them for, which I didn't mind because I love the college sept And then I joined that with yes I did, Yes I did. And then I joined that with my brain and made my own version of Tom Time Club, which was so hot in New York, Tino. Yeah, I take all those things and mix them together.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let the listeners know. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Attack of the Name Game is what Mariah sampled for a heartbreaker.

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Speaker 1: Heartbreaker, Yeah, that's right, that's right.

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Speaker 3: So I was always looking to New York and even London too, was always gonna be the next wave. So I caught that wave, man, and I'm just you know, and then I've got Stacy to do that. The thing one when her brother became that kind of a sound talking like the alien from space.

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Speaker 1: See, I thought that was you.

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Speaker 3: That was her brother.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 4: If there's two human beings that I've seen that were otherworldly to me as far as like they're just on some almost pleadian alien level type of person, I've never seen Angela Bouefield give a normal interview on television. Okay, so can you please describe, because I've never seen a person put their humor out front, and like she always had a joke or a punchline, like maybe Vesta is in third place, like I'll see Tatsa Vega. Vesta and Angela Bouefield were like almost personalities.

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Speaker 1: What was Angela Bufield?

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Speaker 3: Like? Open hearted, funny, But I must tell you perfect pitch. It's so beautiful how she hears and how she can hit her notes and just make everything so musical. She's extremely musical. I was a fan of her stuff, you know, before I ever worked with her. You know, I try and those records she put out with Grusoon Dave Grusoon, which is beautiful. So then when Clyde Davis asked me to work with with Angela, he first picked the song of something about You and few of those type of ideas. But after I got to know her, I know that she liked the funk. To see that, I got excited and I came on one morning on my profit keyboard and my drum machine, my the machines and just made a demo. But I don't make demos some big records, but cutt an idea of too tough for her because I knew that she liked the funk and that was the most cutting ede stuf I stuff I could do. At that time. I said, and it's just coming in and to sing on this for me, and she did, and she got so excited she called Clive now to getting a hit. But I was really just wanted to be like raw a dude and done done, done, done like that, all that kind of thing, you know. And and we all we also had a lot of license to be a little little raunchy and lyrics now because now Prince Will been on the scene a lot of things to be on the scene. You could be a little bit cutting edge on the lyric in R and B and get away with it. So all those things kind of came into factor. But I love Angela. You know, she's had a little stroke. Now we're still talking to her and all she's all, I want to know what's going on, you know. But we made I Maderee albums for Lange, both for three albums, a lot of music, and she taught me how to them. Going to Whitney Houston. I have to say that my discipline with with the way Angela gave me knowing how to if I only have three hours with it? Within three hours here three hours, but two hours year. I knew how to cut vocals now because of Angela Beaufield.

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Speaker 4: So before we get to Whitney, Yeah, one I want to know, like how do you climb the mountain? That is Clive Davis because of his just no nonsense, no bullshit kind of like give me the hit, take me to the mountaintop. What is your first meetings with Clive? Like like, how does he know that he can put his trust in you to deliver what is needed?

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Speaker 3: I think when he heard let me be your Angel, he called me the telephone and he said, you know, how are you doing this? It was like a question to me, It's like, huh, how am I doing this? Well, I'm from Michigan, Callum's in Michigan. We love music and we just that's what we do. That's it.

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Speaker 5: I said.

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Speaker 3: From me, He goes, well, how would you want to work with some of my artists, you know, like angel the Boatfield. That's how it started. Just that's that humble. And then after I did the trust with Ange doing those records came then Phyllis Hyman and uh then then not long after that, he said, Dione Warrick, that's mine. You know, Burke backrecks Hal David is like, oh my god, healthy, you know, the Windows of the World, all that music. So that was mind belonged even to think about meeting that Dione Warwick. I put my little thirteen songs together, went to la during her home and Dion was not feeling my music. So I came back home and I called Clive. I said, Dion is not feeling my music. He said, don't worry, which I thought was very very kind. He said, don't worry. He said, how about Aarretha Franklin. How about Aretha Franklin? Right? He said, just here for a phone call, okay? And I did, And I called Aretha and I'm so glad I had my pen and paper and everything ready because I had no idea how deep she is? Can I can? I? Can I tell that story for you right now? Absolutely? Okay? I call Aretha. He she says, hi, And I said, well, what do you do for fun? You know, I'm just trying to break it down, you know, you Detroit, what do you do for fun? That's when she showed me who she is. She goes, hm, you know, maybe I not. I go out to a nightclub, you know, maybe in the corner, I see a guy like, you know, he looks, he looks at me. I look at him. It's like, who's zooming? Then he feels he's got me with the fish up off the hook? Who's zooming? Who the fish hump off the hook? That's how she talked. That's who she is. I was like, so that was I wasn't ready for all that, but I took that stuff. I said, resting my partner, we gotta write a song with this Who's the who fishing off the hook? She's crazy, man, It's crazy. That's how that happened. So that was Clyde Davis. Just give her a call.

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Speaker 4: I believe that you can meditate and manifest whatever it is that you want to achieve in life. But I mean to be honest with you. When you're starting the Whitney Houston debut album, I mean, are you thinking that this person's about to be the Mount Rushmore of pop music as we know it at that time? Or were they just planning like respectable you know black casief numbers like she's gonna go gold and platinum, maybe double platinum, like coming into the door.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what you guys were gunning for?

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's very beautiful. Thank you for the honor and the love to give me. I can feel it when you're talking to me, and what it does is it makes me really think about what you're asking. So what I want to say is this. When I'm in the automat, I wasn't at Tarban studio shop. I was still in the city at the automat cutting a Wreatha Franklin, getting ready for Wretha Franklin. When the phone call came from Jerry Griffin, the an R of Arista, Narda, you got to make time for Whitney Houston, and I said, no, I'm working on Retha Franklin. I cannot lose my focus. He goes, yeah, I know, but you don't want to miss this younger we've signed who's gonna be big. But and also I gotta tell you, Narda, she is Sissy Houston's daughter. And then I had to stop and think Sissy Houston saying background a garden, love life, take me, take me, Take me to the God, the Light. And when the corner was a little eleven year old girl that was her daughter. I met with this little girl, which was eleven. Oh yeah, I said, well, you know, I'm busy. He goes, we have a hook a song. How will I know? Let me send you the idea. She sent me the idea, heard howl. I know cool. Cool, course, I call hi back to Jerry. There's no verses. I mean, if I'm getting involved, I gotta write some verses for this thing. Finish. It's gonna make a strong song because let me ask the writers. He called the writers, call me back right to stay fine. Now it's on. Yeah. So instead of doing another I read the song that day, I told Randy Jackson Kroto Preston, Walter Auson, Avia, Frank Martin Dave phrase of my team, We're gonna do a song called howell I know for Whitney Houston today. And I just went to the piano and banged it out and put a verses up. I know, here's the one of that kind of spirit. And they cut the hell out of it. And that was the time. Now Randy's playing this mo bass with one finger took a b. So we had this team, this hybrid like a Motown Corporation sound with the newest technology that we needed. To be competitive with Clints and Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones and everybody else is doing records. So we put that thing down. Then I called with the Funcus. I hadn't spoken her yet, and I said, listen, I'm making the verse really high. Can you sing Hi? Yeah? I sing Hi? No? I said, no, no, no, no, no, I'm cutting in San Francisco. I'm a fly to New York to go meet you with a tape. If it's the wrong key, we'll get we're off. Yeah, she says, no, no, I can sing Hi? Said all right, And then I went to New York. And when I go to New York at the media sound with Michael Barbiero with my injury, he was brilliant. He knew the right Mike, I like this noyman, beautiful Mike. Or we're in the studio making it. Everything's sounding good before she even walks in. And when she walked in, Now I'm gonna talk to you straight up. She was so beautiful. Just to put your eyes on her was just like, oh my god, now I'm understanding. We don't even heard her sing. Just looking at her, She's just the cheek bombs the fingers she's nineteen. Okay, okay, I'm trying to understand here. Now go by the mic, sing the song, and God bless her. She knew that song of plenty song that beene with her. That was the only song she knew. How long is she? She was ready for it first album and she blew that song. Man, she killed that song like what you're hearing on that record. All that power and spitting and also control of the head voice to the chest voice, the chest voice back to the head voice. It was all effortless. I said, well, do you know what we've done about four or five takes this and you're so tight on that. I need to keep beating this horse. What we're gonna do now is do a few doublings, a few harmonies, and you want you to come listen to it? And she double? I want her double? She harmon want arm I said, come listen to it on the playback in the control room. If you were me and I'm her, she's looking at me like this. She's looking at me like that. I've never had anyone stare at me like that. The hollands bluring, all the speakers, healing it, and she's looking at me like do you hear that? Do you hear that? Now? It's like a Muhammad Ali moment, like you know, I'm the greatest, but I'm saying that just like now I'm realizing, damn, this is incredible and I'm bless us man. That's what I want to tell you. That's when it hit me that, yeah, no, we're on to something that's going to be like huge.

00:27:38
Speaker 1: I have one question.

00:27:40
Speaker 4: Okay, you do something on that song. I've never heard in the history of pop music. I've never heard somebody like because the thing is, you're building up drama like go to the if he loves me, if he loves me, not think right.

00:27:57
Speaker 1: That is a ramp.

00:27:59
Speaker 4: You're building up to something, and when you build up to it, you modulate to a lower key.

00:28:05
Speaker 1: I've never heard that in the history of pop music.

00:28:09
Speaker 4: What was the thought behind because you know, again, modulation is supposed to be the dramatic moment where you higher and but yet like.

00:28:19
Speaker 2: I'm almost like I need to get down.

00:28:26
Speaker 1: How did you know that would come off?

00:28:29
Speaker 3: To be honest with you, before I even met with me, I work out the song in the studio and maybe I even get like one of my singers my girl singers come and just lay out the idea so I know it all works before I even go anywhere. I have a few different demo demo singers, but Kitty Behope at that time was one of my go tos to work out my ideas that it was all going to be like strong. That's what I always do. Put to make a blueprint so that when I get with a singer, if something doesn't work out, well, no, I know this work, Please do this. So that's how it worked it out, knowing it'll be great because it sounded great, and I put the backgrounds on it. The ideas everything worked out, so then when I see Whitney, it's powerful. But then after I did it with her, it was so incredible. I said, can you get your mom to come down and join on the background, And she did income Sissy Houston with her troop and then they're singing it. But then I said, no, you go to join your mother. Now that was the sound of all knowe again she know the lead, but she's also part of the background with her mom. That's power. So all that power, you don't know where is going up or down. It's just power.

00:29:35
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, I hate the way that transitioning death makes me appreciate or listen to someone's music, Like when a person transitions and I go back to their catalog, then I hear something.

00:29:52
Speaker 1: It's like another chamber opens.

00:29:55
Speaker 4: Yes, So before I ask you, because the thing is is that I feel like right now and you know, I'm a DJ that that is very active and still spinning records, and I feel as though I want to dance with somebody is going through its September phase. Matter of fact, like what I call the smells like teen spirit effect. That's what I want to dance with somebody. Because of course it's like, Okay, we're celebrating her and whatnot. But please tell me what the air was like and the tension of working on the second album where you guys now have to first of all, are you ever thinking of like, Okay, I gotta live up to it, like you know, when you're working on rock a lot or whatever for like Aretha's next records or whatever, Like I gotta I got a top freeway of love. I gotta what's your creative process in terms of like following up, like what.

00:30:58
Speaker 1: Was the difference between it?

00:31:00
Speaker 3: There are a few things I want to say Clive Davis decided early on after the success and fastest rising hit of the Howl I Know, being the number one on the third album of the third number one off that record going so big. Then he called me to meet him at the bungalow, his bungalow in Beverly Hills. It wasn't long after How I Know. Then he says, come meet me. So I go to meet him. He plays for me I wouldn't dance for Somebody loves Me as a demo, the same people who worked on how I Know. But the demo is kind of like very poppy, like a Rodeo Cet type of record. But it's cool. Oh you can hear the hook in there. But the track is just so popular. I'm going immediately, I'm thinking, how am I going to make this a ghetto record? You know, really make a badass for the black people on the North side of Kalamazoo and around the world. That's why my money immediately goes. Then he played me a few more songs he wanted for where It Broke Our Arts Go, and maybe one or two more, and I played him with a pressing glass. Songs you know, the Preston written so.

00:32:02
Speaker 4: You're saying he's planning this even as the first album has yet to really.

00:32:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's your first time was still you know, but now he's like he decided because Whitney I worked so fast on how I know, we turned in so fast that he wants a fast second album kind of be able to pick up on this success. So I get it, and he plays me these ideas, and then I come back to the same room when I'm sitting here with you right now, which I want you to come make your record tart band studios.

00:32:30
Speaker 1: Same studio.

00:32:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is it. Wow, Okay, And I get Randy Jackson. Who I do. I'm that one finger's synthesizer bass crowder, my Italian style guitar. Walter Snavi has not become a big producer yet for Titanic and all that and Mariah he's he's one of our stable cats, Preston Glass and my genius engineer of David Frasier. And I just take these ideas that these Karl Clive has given me and just put my thing on it, our thing on it, which means Quincy Jones taught me an out house bottom with a pent house view, and I put the vocals down, the lead vocals and the backing vocals. So it sounds like a finished record on five songs. And one of those songs would be the Odds of brother song for the Love of You, because Whitney wanted to do that. So before Whitney ever comes in the room, it's all ready for her and and and we are efficient because don't forget I put Disciple grew. I'm like, I'm like a I'm like an army. I'm like an army. There's no drinking, there's no smoking, there's so drugs. It's this vegetarian life, just like an army. Like your fallon show, You're on it. That's how it was in this room. So when she came here, I played for her I Somebody Loves Me. She was like, wow, I never heard it like that. And then I played for them the song I mean she didn't even like, which is where Broken Hearts Go. And I played her that. I said, does this cup for you? Now? Then she goes, Now, I'm starting to get it because now it's for her. Got the right basis, like, got the black on it. That's cool. So what I'm saying to you is I have to all say this now. The first song that she sang in this room was a song by the Isis for the Love of You. And what was so great about doing that song first because she said, I know that song. I'm not even learned of the songs yet, but I know that for love of You, So going on, I can sing that. So she sang that. I said, there are backing vocals on for the love you stack your voice, so we started stacking her voice twenty forty times, so it's all the harms are her voice. And she came back in the studio to hear. Now she's hearing like angels her voice, and I see the look on her face and she's getting inspired by the sound of her her voice. Stacked that many times, and I said, tomorrow we're gonna do I want to dance somebody who loves me. She's okay because she's high. Now she's excited by the sound of her voice. And next day she came in and we ran through it spoon feeding because you didn't know it. Do the verse, do the verse, you know, do do a course, do a course, do an of course, Pagna. Put the whole thing together. Now go to the outro and just go crazy for me, and she stumbled upon say you wanna dance? Don't you want to? Don't you want to dance? Say you wanna dance? Don't you wanna Danceday you want to dance? Oh don't you want to? Say you want to dance? Oh yeah? Man? Oh well something body ruler that came out of her. I was like, damn, I'm changing everything to go with that. With that, now that's gonna be the the highlight at the very end to go to right that came out of her. So I'm saying God came through. But I will say we knew we wanted to make records that would last forever. We pray about it. She loved Jesus. We pray about it, you know, Dear Lord Jesus Savior and all that. You know. Let me do my best work. Very devoted.

00:35:59
Speaker 1: The weather people want to you are not.

00:36:01
Speaker 4: You are probably the most bullseye standard of what we know as the eighties pop sounds. I know that Prince was an architect, I know that Michael was a god and all that stuff, But who does the person who's the standard? You know, because you're doing starships nothing like I can only imagine what your life is like once you have the success with Whitney, but first of all, it's like who was your who was your guide to even because I feel like every creator needs something to sponge off of, to be like, all right, this is where I'm gonna create. But what did the effect of the Whitney albums have on you in terms of, you know, demand, I need you to do my record.

00:36:50
Speaker 1: I need you to do my record.

00:36:51
Speaker 4: You gotta like because I'm certain now if people are hiring you, they're expecting you to contribute the song that's going to also bring them to twelve billion units and sixty million units, Like is.

00:37:05
Speaker 1: Filler even a thing to you?

00:37:07
Speaker 3: Like?

00:37:07
Speaker 4: Or even allowed the freedom to just write a song that's not going to be it?

00:37:12
Speaker 1: But this is really clever song and da da da da da, Like what is your life?

00:37:15
Speaker 3: I'd be allowed to write it. I'd be allowed to write it, But I was always knowing this is kb Alex quiet storm format song. This is top ten format song. This is R and B top ten song. I can differentiate because don't forget at that time, we don't talk about it, but I'll talk to you now. Any artist that came through our door, black artist We had always think how we're going to break them first on black radio R and B radio, we could just think pop. You just think, yeah, you want to get the bob, but you have to first go through your R and B door. So we knew those worlds R and B pop course of course country, you know, jazz and then quiet storm a hybrid easygoing music which now becomes smooth jazz, whatever that is. So we knew the different categories. You had to know that as a producer because if you didn't, you couldn't make it. As a producer. You had to be making no, no, this is going to be doing. This is going to give us the army radio, and then we have enough of the hook to go to p operate and do well. Even the thinking with Clive Davis and Arista putting out You Give Good Love first was to ingratiate Mom and Pops and black radio and our black community that she's ours. Before they came with a saving on my left for you and how I know that's for the world. That was a very thought about decision. You see what I'm saying. That's how it was at that time. Everything had to be a certain way. It was a black artist, a pop artist that you mentioned Starship. I'm not worrying about that because they already that's great slick. We love Mickey Thomas, killer Singer. It's a band that we all know they already had. We built this city and Sarah, they had damn hits, you know mean. So I got my electronic drums, shot I got, I got good studs, got good d put that funk drive on it on a Dyan Warren song that became her first number one, and it was so strong I knocked myself out of number one. George Michael Reath the Franklin the way me knocked myself out the number one. That's how I was at that time. Because the drums, the sound I knew was the power. You have to have it, and we changed the sound to be like mighty. And don't forget what our competition was. Your a friend Prince, he had the hell of the drums. He knew it. And not only did he know it, he puts you. He put his foot up your butt about it. Those drum chacks you put down. Look at Grupple rain and stout. The sound is almighty. He was a mean scientist and everyone you wanted to be competitive. You better be able to get down with it with these new machines or you're out.

00:40:02
Speaker 4: Could you also tell me about Areitha and Whitney's It isn't it? Wasn't it ever going to be like did they do them together or what was that those sessions?

00:40:13
Speaker 3: Like, well, there's two two different record you talk about. Now you're talking. You asked first about the George Michael record.

00:40:19
Speaker 1: I'm excited, okay, I am too.

00:40:22
Speaker 3: I am too man, I am too okay, So dig on I knew waiting for me as a Clive Davis Pick. Clive said, I met with George Michael. He wants to do a song with Aretha. He loves Aretha. I said, okay, and he said I found this song. I'm gonna send it to you. And then Clive sent me the song and powerful song. I went from me. But again it's the magic of my team to bring those chimes with Crawdle on the Syns guitar on the very beginning against the drum. You have to understand at that time you had to have this new sound before anybody opened the mouths this The sound of the record had to be like Ahead, kind of like Motown was the hit. No you won't hit you know what I mean. So in the electronic world, we have to put that thing down it sounds good in this room, and then lay it all out with the vocals back in, vocals, all sounding finished. And then when I went to Detroit, I've had three days and they were on tape. So we only have ten tracks a piece for a reth in for George. Wreatha comes in the first day, lays out her verses and choruses and then not blowing on the end. I want to save that for a live thing with George. Then the next day comes in George Areatha's not there. George is very nervous. He's very nervous, and he's a control freak. He's only produced himself. He's only had one guy produced him from that dude thing, you know, it's Chris. Besides that, he's done his own masterpieces. So we have ten tracks for George. I'm gonna just say this because this is important for my life. George goes on the mic and he sings the song, and he goes almost through damn ten those tracks. He goes through those damn ten tracks, and I happen to know the first four tracks are my record because he was so strong as he's gone to the sixth and seventh and eighth track is diminishing a little bit. He says to me, go back over those first tracks. I want to do more vocals. And that's when I became a producer, and I said, no, we're not doing that. These four tracks, that's my record. That's the record. You think you're getting better, but in fact you're diminishing.

00:42:37
Speaker 4: How do you Jedi mind trick an artist to get out of their head.

00:42:41
Speaker 3: You have to say dis trust me. That's all you got to do. Because you say, go home, let me comp this. When you come back tomorrow, I play, I sleep all night, go home. I'm gonna put it together. And when you hear tomorrow, you're come in fresh to do your backing vote. You come in fresh to your ad libs with the Queen. Get your Rest's be the challenge and if anything bothers you tomorrow, then we can do that. After I've had a chance to call him through what I know is my hit record. Then he said okay, but he looked at me like, who are you to talk to like this? You know, he looked at me like, you know who you think you are bad. Let him know, George, you think you're getting better. But in fact these first tracks were mighty. So then he just he gave in. He gave in the next day. That was genius because now he's meeting the queen, and the Queen's happened to meeting him because he's a big star. And then what it is, we have two mics. I have enough to do four rounds of adults on the ending with two tracks a piece. And Aretha goes easy on those first tracks. She's, you know, just feeling them out like a prize It's like a prize fighter. She's a fucking prize Fighter's a prize fighter. On the third and fourth go rounds, she let him have it, man, And that's on that record. Would you hear? And he stunned, He's stopped because he could have the power. No one can. So what I'm saying to you is, I'm very proud of that record now on because it's number one because the friendship that Jeorde and I made of him trusting me and me having to be strong to say no stopping. So like that, I can tell you.

00:44:16
Speaker 4: Did you do the same process? Whitney and Aretha like, do you prefer them to sing.

00:44:19
Speaker 3: Apart or that song they were together? Cut the tracks here, go to Detroit. You're not it sound with my enginet dave phrase, we fly together? You know it sound in the same studios where George Wilt be hanging out. I know we won't the fun all that stuff in the whole same rooms.

00:44:34
Speaker 1: Q tip has that board? Now who does Q tip has the API board? Yes?

00:44:40
Speaker 3: Okay board?

00:44:42
Speaker 1: So what was that session?

00:44:45
Speaker 4: It's again like you have two women at the top of their game, two gods at the top of their game.

00:44:51
Speaker 1: How are you refereeing how the song's gonna go?

00:44:56
Speaker 3: Well?

00:44:56
Speaker 4: That you're allowed to tell me, And I can tell by the look on your face. You gotta hold some stuff back.

00:45:04
Speaker 3: They're both in heaven. They're both looking down upon us right now on the hairs and they and they give me love because it was love. But this is what I gotta share with you, which you know, Aretha Franklin, I mentioned to you a prize fighter. It is true Whitney Houston's one of the greatest of all time. But Aretha Whitney with Aretha Wreatha was a little girl when her mother sang back up on those hits with Aretha Reada's a little girl, Whitney's little girl around those sessions. So Aretha to Whitney is like Auntie re read like let us Auntie ree Red so sweet like that. So here I'm gonna go with. I'm sitting at the board. Whitney is sitting on the floor. We get there early. She's on the floor. Time. You can't read this here, She's just frost leg on the floor. When Aretha comes to the door in her fur coat and her prize fighter mode, like when the Narrow goes into his modes to make his movies. Already in character. She's in character to take this man or keep her man. So she looks at me, she goes, where is she? That kind of harsh like that? Where is she? Where is she? Now? You throw me off? Where is she?

00:46:10
Speaker 1: Wait?

00:46:10
Speaker 3: Oh, oh, you mean Whitney. She's right here on the floor. And then she peers down and look at Whitney. You know. Oh, so you're miss Houston and Whitney's life Auntie Reary. The cast was spelt right there. The song would be like, how are you going to take my man? How you gonna even sing about taking my man? She put that that that that thing on the right from the very beginning, and from the very beginning we did the song. Whitney is so effortless at that time with her vocals, she did the most killer if I've ever heard her do. And then she left because she could feel that it wasn't a good vibe. And Retha stated, and Retha said, go to that part of the tape where she said she did that that cred thing. She didn't pushed me in right after it, okay, And we did, and she punched me out there again. Make sure I do what I want to do, because she wanted to make sure she was bringing her fire as strong as what we're dead done, just effortlessly, and we did. And then when she got what she won, which was killer, she left. But then she called me up on the phone and said, do you think I was too harsh today? Said, well, you might want to give her. He a phone call, says, yes, I will. She said I wasn't character for the song. I said, I know you were. Damn. When you're in character, I mean, you're like you're like life to death. Man.

00:47:36
Speaker 1: But that's the thing. I always see a duet as like a collaboration.

00:47:41
Speaker 4: I never like, I'm not thinking that like Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney about to start brawling, you know, like I'm an out sing you, you're out singing me. I think as the average listener, I wouldn't listen from the standpoint of like who's going to win this battle? I'm thinking of like how are they going to to create magic together? It's so weird that how artists getting their heads. Well, wait, I might as well throw one. One thing is because if I remember correctly, I believe on that record the opening song is James Brown and Aretha Franklin. Yes, how how was that session? Because I've talked to Full Force before about working with James Brown, and.

00:48:23
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of puncheons and whatnot, like like.

00:48:26
Speaker 3: James, James was is my hero. You know, you're a drummer, so you know the power of Cole Sweat. The power Cole Sweat with what they put down was just like so far ahead. If you want to be respected as any kind drummer, you have to be able to play caled Cole Sweat. And so here I am in this room with James Brown. You call mister Brown, you'll call him James, mister Brown, and we had He said, I want a few cards, And first of all, he thought, where is she? He wanted to see a Retha. I said, we she's not here. You're coming in and sing your parts and I'm gonna go to the Trent and butter parts. So he was sad because you really had a kind of a romantic thing in his mind about Aretha. Right, it'd be great that the king and the queen came together. And he was all there, you know. So we made these big Q cards. So here I'm holding big Q cards. You know, I'm kind of throwing away as he's singing the song, throwing cue cards. But that's how he recorded. And he's a killer just doing his grunts and this stuff and then reading the Q card and kind of being spontaneous. It was a killer session. I loved him. I loved you. And also we had a I knew he less like organ, so I have my organ in here. You go and fill up with the organ play.

00:49:30
Speaker 1: That you need.

00:49:32
Speaker 3: Yeah I would, Yeah, No, I would, because I know I make him happy. See and then he will say, use the only one keeping the funk alive. Damn, mister Brown. Thank you for saying that use the only one chieving the funk alive. Damn. Okay. So then I went back and put Aretha on Andreatha killed it too. He just wasn't meant to be. And Prince, you're bro did the remix on that record?

00:49:51
Speaker 1: Did you know that right? That's right? I okay, I heard I heard an outtake of it. You are correct. Yeah, I apologize for hogging this entire interview. Do you have any questions?

00:50:03
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask about the Temptations stay.

00:50:07
Speaker 2: I just thought that was just a brilliant move of sampling my girl to make a new song. So tell me about how that record came together and what that session was like.

00:50:16
Speaker 3: Man, I love the Temptations, Temptations four tops. That all that movement out of the motown list is just staggering. We're still learning from that catalog. We're still learning from most people. We're still learning. We're still trying to be half as good. That's what they put what they did. Man, we're just so the work Temptations is a big deal. And then Otis Williams is the only living memory when I worked with him, and I loved his wisdom, so it brought some out of me after I met with him to record some songs. It brought this out of me to kind of go, what can I do that would just really be something different? And I just God said, you sample the beginning of My Girl boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom, you know, and put a new song on top kind of what was coming out in New York. Again, you had a lot of cats taking other records and putting different songs on top. So it wasn't a new a brand new thing, but it's a brand new thing to do for the temptation, that's you know what I mean. So that's where did stay tune the moon and baby rock Me slow like I want to rock you on top of My Girl? So I had to guess Wilgie Robinson half the song because he wrote my Girl No Problem, and we got to know the other half. And it became a hit fors and they got a platinum record band of all those years here there I plotum and then they're going for the Grammy and all that stuff. So it made me very happy. But that's what it was. I was just really wanting to have a hit, and I thought, if I take something old like a wedding, something old, something new, that might be the thing. And it was.

00:51:50
Speaker 4: When you're approached about Mariah Carrey's first album, Yes, Now, unlike Whitney Houston, which again nobody had a ankling of a clue, what was headed down the road? Now that you know that there's a standard a road to follow. When Tommy and Donnie are bringing you Mariah Carey, are they putting the invisible pressure on you to put some numbers on the board, just like you did for your other star student.

00:52:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, there are We're not talking numbers, We're not talking pressure. It's just the first folk call get from Tommy, not Donnie. Donnie I knew from working with Clive now he's over Sony, but I didn't evenly have a relationship to him and Sony yet. So it's really Tommy called me. He says, I found this girl and I want to send you a picture and a song on her, and then you know, and if you like her, let me know, said he said, But don't mack my babe, Okay, all right, I'm married. And the mail come was a little tiny slide of her that big and a cassette. So I listened to the cassete and said, oh, yeah, she sounds really nice, you know, so I let her know. You know, she's whatever I'm hearing is cool. Would you fly to New York come Meter? I said, yes, I will, because don't forget, Matola was a present for Sonya, now a big lady. I knew if he had his attention on something, it could be like something we really want to like take serious. So here I go to New York, come Meter. And in all respect Mariah, when I first met he was extremely shy, not the Mariah you see now where she's up front and talking and you know, and like the she would have them hair on one side of her face and talk to you with the hair on one side of the face, very quiet. And I would say, well, we're like, well, what do you what artists do you like? You know, Oh, I like George Michael. That's great. I just work with George Michael. You know, just did that. I know you're waiting for me, So I said, you know what, why don't we go? I can hear you singing a Michae. Let's just go to some studio and just not to sit on and talk. Let's go and do some music. So we did. We went over to Sony Studio, a mike for her, a mike for me, and my friend wrote piano and we wrote four songs. And I was surprised how fast she writes, And then I was surprised how good she sings. Then I was even more surprised that she could do like a young Michael Jackson. Well, like, that's not easy to be like to imitate a young Michael Jackson. She could do that. Then it hit me who I was messing with that it wasn't just some other whatever.

00:54:30
Speaker 1: How did you discover the whistle? Because you unleashed the whistle to the world.

00:54:36
Speaker 3: Well in honesty vision of love, where she goes it in that big whistle. She cut that vocal on her own with her other cat. I didn't cut that whistle. They had already cut that jam. Well, I got with her. I did a jam called I Don't want to Cry, I.

00:54:50
Speaker 1: Don't want to cry, My bad, my bad, okay.

00:54:52
Speaker 3: Okay, And then I got and then we got into all that on that record, knowing, wow, you know she could do it. So then we really just perfected it and just got what she wanted, and then I started realizing what a perfection she is. She even had me send that tape back in your because she wanted to fix on one riff, only send tape across the country well one rift, which already genius it was, but we did. That's how I realized what her standard was at that time. She wanted me so shy to now, being like, send me the tape. So we did. We got it back and it wasn't that much different, but she was a damn killer. And then from there Tommy says, what you're doing on these songs, I want Vision of Love to sound like and the album. So then they sent us Vision and then we just we went in and made Vision little sound more the track and with her voice and everything like what we're doing on the other music. That's what we did. And then she exploded. Man, she just exploded.

00:55:44
Speaker 1: So is that part exhausting?

00:55:46
Speaker 4: Because you know, La and Face said the same thing, jam and Lewis said the same thing, which is basically, before you even work with an artist, you have to go and get to know them and spend time with them. Is there a situation in which it was a struggle to get the artist to be vulnerable to trust you to Okay.

00:56:05
Speaker 3: You know what I do? You know, Quesse, I got you. You know, I did a quest. I pushed past it. I ignore it. Try this, try that, try this so fast they're off balance. Now before you know it, things are just magically happening.

00:56:20
Speaker 1: What was the hardest song you had to cut?

00:56:23
Speaker 3: Like?

00:56:23
Speaker 1: Go back, recall it, recall it, recall.

00:56:26
Speaker 3: Lover for Life? Why wasn't happy with Lover for Life? For Whitney? And not because cut it great? But he had a demo of it, and the demo had a base trum pattern on five it wasn't in four. Kept changing. I thought that wasn't going to be the way because you wouldn't even land on one.

00:56:41
Speaker 1: So he cut it.

00:56:41
Speaker 3: I cut it my way. I cut it in Needa Baker way. I cut it defetd in ways you know. But he couldn't get happy. I said, well, what is it with this thing? You know? Was the demo? I love? But the demo just so you know, the base trump is moving and it's not landing on down beach, which we expect as listeners. In a way, he goes, well, maybe that's why I like it about that demo that it's kind of floating. I go, well, then let me do that if that's what it is, and then he was happy. He wanted the base to move around. So yeah, then we got happy. So when you have the heardest song was the hardest song. It was just discovering when people like a demo and they likes something that working about a demo, and you got to realize, what is he like about that thing? You know?

00:57:27
Speaker 1: Wow, one of the most heartbreaking things. I think. When she passed.

00:57:32
Speaker 4: Away, I believe I heard you say that you guys were considering cutting brainstorms.

00:57:41
Speaker 1: Loving is really my game.

00:57:44
Speaker 3: Yes, she was crazy about that record. I didn't even know that record that much. She was saying, yeah, yes, And I said, oh, I've heard it, just I love that record. Would you cut it for me? Said? Sure, I will, Honey, I do. Didn't think you want me to do? And I cut it, and I cut it, and it was mean, it's in my vault right now.

00:58:07
Speaker 1: She cut her vocals.

00:58:08
Speaker 3: No, so I called this estate. I called down to that she in Atlanta. Oh, well, she's just not feeling well. I want to sing right now now, and now she's going off to do it to it now she's doing it would always be like something going on. I said, but I'm bringing what she's asking for. Well, she just can't do it. So we never could get her to sing it. And then I saw her for the last time after I cut it at one of those Clive things the year before she passed, right, you know, and she came and jumped on me. We just like hugged and kissed him. Ran Jackson was a witnessing it. It's like, oh my god, you know, and she just loved each other. And I said, I got it. I cut what you want me to cut? Oh I want to sing it? Yeah, I know, let's do it. But it wasn't to be.

00:58:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, Like Balita Woods of Brainstorm was like one of the most unsung champions of soul singing. When people think of Brainstorm, they think of this must be in heaven for quiet Storm. But like Lovan is really my game was like that was a thing, like I remember that when I was a kid.

00:59:12
Speaker 3: But you but you have to say one more thing. It was Whitney. Also, Sugists suggests that I cut on every woman for Bodyguard. That wasn't Clyde, that was Whitney. So she had a really good idea, you know, of what she wanted to get into, like that record you love a brainstorm. So there you go.

00:59:26
Speaker 4: Ah, all right, I might as well ask, because I'm not going to have an opportunity to ever again.

00:59:30
Speaker 1: What was it?

00:59:31
Speaker 4: What was it like working with with with Eddie Murphy because you did push your mouth on me.

00:59:36
Speaker 3: Love Eddie, Eddie, Eddie came here man. First, Yes, you're in the video. Yeah, I'm a massive Eddie fanh And and Rick James.

00:59:51
Speaker 6: At the Sauce Will studio. You know they did the Parer Party at the time. Wow, you know they had massive success. So Eddie was like swinging. It wasn't like some joke anymore. I was like, you're you're recording artists, man. So I said, well, what do you want to write about? What kind of song you want to do?

01:00:07
Speaker 3: I said, you know, just give me some inspression what you want to talk about? And he said put your mouth on me.

01:00:15
Speaker 4: Okay, but you his version of kiss or something like, yeah, that's the vibe.

01:00:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I figure, just.

01:00:24
Speaker 3: Vibe, just vibe. And we did it, you know, and I loved him and he again can imitate all those great voices in here. Michael everybody, Elvis pred anything. He's just a gifted cat man and but very quiet when he's not working that are discovered. Kind like Richard Pryor, these great comedians are very quiet when they're not doing what they do. They live in their head. You gotta you know, you gotta you know it makes sense.

01:00:49
Speaker 1: Well, this is my question. I just wanted to ask about a song.

01:00:52
Speaker 2: It was on the last My Visional album and you wrote called in My Life. Do you remember about anything about that session of writing?

01:01:01
Speaker 3: That was the most beautiful album done at Honky Chateau in France, out in the country, and it was so beautiful because we had this massive room and it was like a kind of a barn in that the back window, back door behind my drums could open so you could see the whole comfry side out back behind my drums, which took me more time to mic the drums and get the sound I wanted because the openness. But in that room was just so pastoral in the feeling. And that's when we cut on that album, all this high synthesizer, guitar, inner worlds and miles out. It was just like, oh my god. After all that then Vishnu said thank you for the flowers and trees and just this beautiful little thing. Now kind of chime on something, you know, whatever I bring to it a little bridge area. But it was really Vishnu that had that thank you for and Harold King came to me make it. Kunga's acoustic piano completely opposite. Were just cut and you know, if it's just something else, man, I gotta say about that guy, man, he said.

01:02:05
Speaker 2: No, man, we my group, my right group, our little brother. We actually we sampled that song like and we cleared it. And it was like literally at the last minute, we you know, had our people working on this stuff, but we hadn't heard anything. And so a buddy of mine had played with my vision in his band. He was like, yo, man, I got his email, we can try. I'm like, all right, I'll try. Jill emailed and was like, hey man, this is my group. By tell him what it is. He was on vacation with his family and he's like, hey man, I'm on vacation, but you know, I think it's great. You know, we'll do it, and and they cleared it and so thank you man, Like that was a beautiful song and.

01:02:45
Speaker 1: Is there.

01:02:46
Speaker 4: Do you have a close but no cigar moment in an artist he was supposed to work with, not on work, but.

01:02:52
Speaker 3: You know, know there are a few. I met with Madonna and the album What Year, Well she had just made. I gave her those high heels that she wore that it's not called Borderline. The yellow high heels that those get from me. She can't envisit me. I picked up the airport in sant San Francisco. We had a great meeting. She loves Stacy Lattisol. She loved my music with Stacy, but she's hot on that kind of vibe. And then she went to New York. But a weekly she called said, you know what, I'm going to stay in New York. I'm working now. Rogers said, okay. She goes, I'm just loving New York. I go, I get it. I get it. I get it because I wasn't hopped about of here relaxing. You know, she goes, you know, so then she made lack a version.

01:03:31
Speaker 1: Damn you gifted in Borderline.

01:03:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy.

01:03:42
Speaker 7: I need my one two questions and I just got to pick your brain about a couple of names that our viewers may or may not remember or no. From your early days as drummer. I'm a big CTI Records fan, as people might know, Creed Taylor and you worked with Alan Holdsworth on an album called Velvet Darkness in nineteen seventy six. Do you have any memories of those sessions and Alan, Yes.

01:04:10
Speaker 3: Alan asked me to come and record them as ct I. He's a guitar player, by the way, Yes, he's one of the most brilliant guitar players in the world, Alan Holdsworth, and we all know he's very sensitive. And I go in there and on keyboards as a cat who was from Tony Williams band Ala Pasquad clavin at keys and on basis from weather Port Alfonso Johnson, Oh wow. And I go in there with my drum kit. It's a white gratch kid with the enameled double painted on the inside, which sounds they aren't like vibes clear, but they're but they're mighty like that would. And so then Alan starts showing us these songs and as he saw it, shows the song. Then we play the song and they would cut it. Then we'd maybee cut it maybe a second time and that will be that. Then you know, we kind of went thro those songs like that. In his mind, he's thinking, he's just kind of showing us the songs and we're going to, you know, come back another time or whatever you think. I don't know, but Creed Taylor and Rudy van Gelo, the great Engineer, they were loving it and that was what they wanted to get, that live, fresh, raw vibe. And then they wanted to put it out and Alan wanted to do more, do more takes and whatever you wanted to do, you know. So it's some discrepancy between his got concept and maybe what theirs was. But I was just doing what I was asked to do and being paid to do whatever it was. So that was the album. It came out, and I'm proud of it. I'm proud to say I worked with Alban was worth Also, I want to say one more thing. In that same room, there were two pianos, black pianos that were owned by Rudy van geld with was a great engineer that Herbie Hancock or silver these genius had played on these damn pianos. And his wife had cancer, so he needed some money, so he said, I want to sell one of my pianos I just made forty thousand dollars with Wired Sales and Jeff Beck, so I said, I'll buy one of these pianos, and I bought it and that became my piano for letting be Angel everywhere. I love all my hits on that same piano, So that's part of that connection wise investment.

01:06:08
Speaker 1: Goddamn.

01:06:09
Speaker 7: You also played on a historic recording on a Jocko Pistorious record with Sam and Dave and come on, come over. Do you have any memories of that?

01:06:17
Speaker 3: Yeah? I do. Jocko and I have care friends from Miami. That's where I first met him. That's why I suggested I bring him to Weatherport. When I was asked journal weather Report, I don't want to join with but I want to go ty bowhen and do rock and rollet panel the stage and go that way. And they said, well can you bring a baseball? And said, well, I know a cat crazy named Jocko Florida, so Joe's I think I've heard him. So we flew him out to LA and he came and does this great gam called Canniball and black Market. He starts playing that song and add all this stuff to Because you so had so much ideas, and then Joe stops in the middle and says, don't put that shit on my song, and it kind of freezes Jocko. You know what I mean. And what it does is it makes Jocko come Jocko. Now he's more thoughtful. Everything he plays puts it in the right place, and people kind of go, damn. He is genius. After that, he joined that band and made Weather Heavy Weather, with a remark you made teen Town those great pieces. He does a solo album and then because we're friends, he has to me to come player, come on, come over, And I went to place on top of a garage, the home studio of the great drummer Bobby calling me from Bloodswooting Tears. He was a produced set album. So this is his studio on top of the garage where I played his drums, a royal horn, Cats, Tom Malone, those type people, and then the rhythm section all in the same room with Jocko and Sam Moore. Maybe like that. Yeah, it was live, just the funk, but didn't the funk, you know, it's like one or two things. That was it. But Jocko is mean in heaven right now you're looking down. He's mean, he's like all lay on the base.

01:08:04
Speaker 4: Mean my final question, because every hip hop producer will kill me if I don't ask this. Because both you and Ed Green are credited with drumming on Come Dancing. Who is playing the actual breakbeat at the top of that song?

01:08:24
Speaker 1: Is that you or Ed Green?

01:08:26
Speaker 3: Mean? I wrote that song that I cut the song, yeah, and then later on when I heard it on the record after I bought the record. Quite frankly, I heard ed greena on there and it was cool because he just made it a little even fatter. They overdubed the moments, making fatter. It's like damn. I In fact, in fact that all the Jon Hammer stuff, all that stuff, I'm wired. I didn't hear any of stuff till it came out and bought it. John overdubbed all his stuff, ed bring it overdubbed this thing. That's how it was. In fact, Jon Hammer didn mixed the album. It wasn't even mixed by Beatle producer George Martin. It was mixed by jan because Jeff went up there and fell in love. That's what you want to gad you sound, and that's what it was. Man.

01:09:03
Speaker 8: So I started out boom Scott boom Scott boom boom Scot boom boom boom Scott boom Scott boom book boom boom bang. I don't don't gang a boom bump a boom, pump skany pump, oh bull skang a boom bum skag.

01:09:23
Speaker 1: I all that.

01:09:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, fans of a Balloon, Mind State and day La Soul are very familiar with that drum break in.

01:09:30
Speaker 1: I had to ask that question. It's it's the song they sampled on a area codes.

01:09:35
Speaker 3: Look.

01:09:36
Speaker 4: I have to say that very rarely does an episode of Quest of Supreme.

01:09:43
Speaker 1: Go beyond what I thought it would be.

01:09:47
Speaker 4: And the fact that there's even twelve more hours of questions I have for you shows how much of a god.

01:09:54
Speaker 1: You are in your creativity.

01:09:56
Speaker 4: And I just simply want to thank you for taking the time out for these last almost two hours to share these stories, man.

01:10:05
Speaker 1: Because like the world doesn't know how awesome you are man, and you know, I just say thank.

01:10:12
Speaker 3: You, thank you, ques Man. I'm a fan of I love your work. I love your brin's, how you bring a tuba in with your drums on the shows and things like that. You bring these eclectic things. Wow. That's keeping the funk raw man. So dig you man, would love to work on something.

01:10:27
Speaker 1: With you when I'm out there next.

01:10:29
Speaker 4: We got to meet in person and shop it up for something, so we'll definitely the same in contact.

01:10:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.

01:10:35
Speaker 4: On behalf of the family of Quest Love Supreme, font Tigolo, super Bill.

01:10:40
Speaker 1: I'm giving them new names.

01:10:42
Speaker 4: Steve, Layah cousin, Jake and Brittany and Fontigelo and the Great Nartamichael Walton.

01:10:50
Speaker 1: This is an awesome damn episode of Quest Love Supreme.

01:10:54
Speaker 3: We've been waiting on this one for a long time. Man, seriously, thank you for doing it. Cats Man, I really love it. This has been a highlight for me. I knew it was coming, and uh, you know, bag type of thing is that when you interviews, you know you want to make sure you're saying the right things that you're giving the love. And a lot of our people were talking about and having the jockal on that we through the Whitney's and they're looking down and with us right now. Like what you say, man, you better keep keep keep me alive. An'll be forgetting about me now. I'll whoop you.

01:11:25
Speaker 1: We'll see on the next go around.

01:11:26
Speaker 3: Thank you.

01:11:29
Speaker 9: Hey, thank y'all for listening to Quest Love Supreme.

01:11:32
Speaker 5: This podcast is hosted by an alf Ro, a mouth, a rapper, an engineer, and a man with too Many jobs aka a mere quest Love Thompson.

01:11:40
Speaker 9: Why are you a Saint Clair Fonte, Coleman, Sugar, Steve.

01:11:43
Speaker 5: Mandel and un Table the executive producers who get paid the big bucks a.

01:11:49
Speaker 9: Mere quest Love Thompson, Sean g and Brian Calhoun ask them for money.

01:11:54
Speaker 5: Produced by the people who do all the real work Britney Benjamin, Jake Payne and Yes, why he is Saint Claire.

01:12:01
Speaker 9: And by another person who does the real work, Alex Conroy and those who approved the real work. Produced for iHeart by Noah Brown.

01:12:12
Speaker 1: Much Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.