Salli Richardson-Whitfield

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Quests. Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Can we start the theme? Steve, You're ready? Bill? You're ready? Why are you ready? I'm ready. Let's do it. Oh that's out forward. Yeah for it. Supremo roll cal Supremo, Supremo. Role came Supremo, Supremo, Supremat Supremo. What love is my name? Yeah, Supreme is the squad, Yeah, schis Yeah, suprem Supremo. Roll came Supremo Supremo. My name is Fante. Yeah, I'm in my prime. Yeah. Shout out to Sally. Yeah, we need some more winning time. So sup Suprema Sprivo roll call. My name is Sugar, Yeah, and we and Cali Yeah, and I am so glad. That rhymes with Sally vall. I'm unpaid Bill Yeah, and hold the phone. Yeah. Shout out to our guests and her tailbone. Suprivo roll suprivavs like, yeah, that's here to teach. Yeah if I was damn Yeah, this is a firseprivo roll suv roll. My name is Sally. Yeah. They call me Mustang yeah because yeah, you got that thing thing. So Supremo Suprema So so Somo, don't feel mad. I have done that many times. That was over soon, He's done. I've done. Sally's here to teach. I came for class like No, I got class like Angela and a mouth like peaches. Damn. Yeah, it was like Angela in the mouth like anyhow anywhere rhythm and rapping. Yeah, we were in trouble. I'm all right, So this is another uh Los Angeles in person in studio quest love Supreme Love in person? Yeah, in person, it's it's my favorite type of tapings that we do. I enjoy it. It's amazing. Anything else. I'm looking at you Bill anyway. I'm just having me here. We never get to do this. We always do this on MS. In person? Is weird to be? I love? I love being in person. No, we're here, esqually. I know you have to ask Afield. I'm sorry. DeAndre gonna go home in trouble. We just decided to call him DeAndre right now, call him Robert Andre. Get me in trouble, all right, No, talk us through that. He will talk. We We've been calling him Robert forever. Literally, he probably that's worse. That's not as bad as DeAndre. People call him Robert still from absolutely absolutely I'm so sorry, Andre, Andre Andre, We're already getting off the shaky start, all right. So look, the I would say the order of the day for this podcast is we often talk about pivots, pivots in terms of where we were creatively at the beginning of our career, towards where we've learned that idiom from ll cool J taking walks to the light, you know, And so I will say that that's a major theme of this program, and of course our guest today, I believe in bodies sort of that motion. We first fell in love with her as an actress and many a classic film a name like Posse, Low Down, Dirty Shame. Uh eureka, right, I have so many questions about that exactly. I do want this to be the low down Dirty tribute program. Not to mention, you know, I am legend just countless of sitcoms and dramas and whatnot, which basically leads to her calling as an executive producer and a director. Sitting in that director's chairs, it's mighty a task that you know, isn't for the faint hearted. And I will say that between her directing on Queen Sugar, one of my favorite programs by the way not to mention scandal, Luke Cage, I'm so wow, right exactly blackish, the shy not to mention winning time, the story of the classic era of the Los Angeles Lakers, And right now we're celebrating the guilted Age and we're going to talk pivots, the art of storytelling, and just her journey creatively. And I would like to welcome to quest Love Supreme without stutterying, Sally Richardson, you look at me. I gave you that look. I know, yeah, like I already felt the pressure, right, yes, no, Please welcome Sally Richardson Whitfield to Questions. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited about being here. Well for startists, for those that don't know you. Where are you from? Where were you born? I'm from Chicago, part of Chicago. South side of Chicago. Is everyone really from the south side between Detroit and Chicago. If you black, you mostly from the south side of Chicago, unless maybe the West Side. You're from the west to the south side. So I'm assuming that the south is the realest end quote, because it is Chicago. As much as I love it can be a segregated area and we didn't grow up with you know, we didn't we didn't grow up with a lot of money. And you know, so you're on the South side of Chicago or the West Side or the projects. So for you, what was your formative years like creatively speaking, what was your family situation and growing up sort of you know, parents divorced. I was very lucky that I was able to go instead of my father paying like actual like child support directly, he paid for me to go to private school. So I went to Lab School, which is part of the University of Chicago. So it was sort of this mixture of going to going to this fabulous school and then kind of going back to, you know, my neighborhood and being able to live in both of those worlds, which it has worked very well for me now in life. I can kind of flow anywhere I need to go. And then my mother, both of my parents my father were at University of Chicago. My mother at the time, she used to work. I think my mom was working at The Defender at some point. She which is a black newspaper in Chicago. She worked at a recording studio for many years, which is where I don't remember the name of it, but that's growing up. I was around a lot of music, so I was singing, and that's kind of where I met my first manager. And I think what sort of sparked me wanting to be in the arts because I was not around it at all. And then at some point at the Lab School, they shot Endless Love there and I yes, and that is where I really got the bug because I was always a basketball player in school, so if theater, I didn't do a lot of because it always came in during basketball season. So but they came there and they did that movie with Brooks Shields and I saw all of that and I was like, oh, I don't know, this seems interesting, which is kind of started my path. Okay, did you have siblings or I have three brothers who are about fifteen years younger than me, so most of my life I was an only child. So you were older than them. Yeah, yes, that's interesting for them to have an older sister that was fifteen years old. Yeah. I was ready for you to be the younger sister that they beat up everybody. No, I but you were there. I'm gonna beat you, but you know, I was the I don't know, I don't know, have that mixture of only child but then having really young ones that me and my mom, you know, she was working a lot, so me and me and my brother. Yeah, that's my that's my baby there. Okay, I see that default. Yeah, well quasi parents, Yeah, I get that now, all right. So here's the thing, like a lot of us that are not in the Midwest, especially now in this political climate. Yeh hashtag what about Chicago? What about Chicago? What is your view or description of your formative years in Chicago because oftentimes I feel like, again especially now, all you do is hear about the bad side of Chicago whatever like is but is there a rosy memory of Chicago or is it like I have to get out of Chicago. So I spent a lot of time in Hyde Park. So although I'm like this mixed girl, which can not work for you, Well, at times it was a very mixed area. There was a lot of white and black couple so it was okay for me hung out at the point beautiful. Then later on we moved to sixty first Street, which we're now moving more and more south. Now we're on ninety fifth Street off of Stony Island. It's a little it ain't. It ain't mixed no more so again, but I never I don't know. My mother kept me in a bunch of stuff. I'm going to school. I didn't really encounter too much. When I go back and see some of the places I walked around in I go, I can't believe I was walking down that street to the grocery store. You know, I would always say around seventy fifth and Saint Lawrence. People from Chicago will know what I'm saying. That's where you just churches and bars, church bar, church bar, all everything's behind glass and the grocery store. That's when I look back and go, God, I just walked over there to the grocery store. Now, I don't think I would know how to flow through that area anymore the same way. And it's much worse now. Okay, So well that was my next question, like has your area been gentrified or is it? No? No, it's it's probably worse over there now. Now you mentioned you mentioned manager. I don't know if you were talking about manager then or manager now. But when you spoken manager, are you you mean in terms of acting or like did you have aspirations to sing? At one point? I did so when I first started because of the studio, I played piano. I used to study opera. Uh so I thought when I first went to LA it was sort of acting and singing. I thought I would do both. There are a lot of demorels somewhere of me singing. And I think I shot a not think I did. I shot a video. Okay, did you come to LA? Wow? I was twenty five. I don't know, I graduated eighty five whatever Giddo's real numbers. Look, I don't care. I'm old. And uh yeah, I thought I was gonna be a singer. I kind of you in LA in eighty five, eighty six. Yeah, during Pebbles all that time. Yeah, and I could do hip hop and now you are you fell in the hole? Now. It was a perfect time because I didn't really have to dance well neither. It was like, this is good. I can sing, I have no rhythm, I can't dance. And this video, I'm really I haven't looked at in a long time because it's in I have like the tape of it, you know, it's in a real realm. I need to digitize that. I'm a little afraid to see that one. Nice Yeah, nice what is the spark that prompts your move to Los Angeles? As in like okay in order for me to pursue my dream? And what is your dream that makes you go to Los Angeles? You know at that time, a lot of things were being shot in Chicago, a lot of movies, you know, but you so I could get little guest spots, so I didn't remember. I did Prelude to a Kiss. I played one of Meg Ryan's bridesmaids. You know. So you're getting small things like that Rocky Carroll. That's where I met Rocky Carroll because he was he was in that movie. And so you see that you can get small things, but you can't it's it. And then I did a screen test for what is that Bill Duke movie? He directed with Robin Gibbon. So I screen test for that. Yes, so I was there. It was me, Robin and this other actress. And I just knew, you know, like I did it in the makeup art. This is when don't listen to know. But this is when I learned, never get too excited. More than likely you didn't get it or it's not big. And I just knew I did it. And I was cute, and I thought I had my little southern accent. I was ready, and I did not get it. Robin, Well, that's when you find out Robin Gibbons's sort of popular at the time. Like when you are auditioning, and this is the part I really want to do, like the audition process. Are you in a room collectively with everyone or is it just like no, No, they did a real screen test. They don't do this very often. Now. I did the same thing for Nutty Professor, which was a real screen test. They put you through here and makeup. I had on a dress. It's dress. Yes. In the movie it's with Forrest Whittaker. Like it's a real screen test. They are on a kind of set like it's a thing that's somewhere too. I would love to you know, look, I'm like, where is that stuff? Now'll find out why I didn't get it. You weren't good. So anyway, I'm doing small things like that, and just something went. You got to make a decision, you got to go to New York or LA And I don't know, I mean, I think it was just an accumulation of all those little things. And so I was waiting tables too, I saved up my money for a year waiting tables, bought this six hundred dollar car. But I am a planner, so I flew to la first, got an agent. One of my agents in Chicago helped me set up some meetings somehow or not. I've always been this person. Things kind of fall in line for me. So I at the time I met with William Morris and another one. I have no idea how I got in this meeting. I really had no tape, and they're like, do you have tape. I'm like, I do not, But so you had to have even back then, you had to have real Yeah. They were asking they want to see something, and I was like, oh, I had done. I had done this movie. How you like me? Now? That was my first I think that's my first film. I see in this film I got remind I was like, okay, I look crazy because Halie Berry had just like hit it. And so the guy who was producing it was a white guy who was producing it for this black director. This movie. He decided because my hair is so right now, my hair is curly, but my hair is very straight. So he decided that I didn't look black enough, and he wanted me to wear a short wig with more what he considered black hair. And so I'm wearing this wig so it looks more halle Berry's shortcut to look more black. It's really bad. Ye try that, but you know, you like, I'm gonna do this movie. I'm gonna wear this wig. But yeah, and some days the wig look good and some days it did not. It wasn't this. It wasn't nowadays where you can get good wigs. You know. You just got this film. I've seen it. I've seen this, I have to. It's with Darnell william Oh, yeah, I found the roster Williams. Yeah, baby, like I am. I'm like twenty two or something, So I think that was. But I have another one. I don't know the name of it. It's with Marla Gibbs and Stony Jackson. Whoa wow. No, and we shot it in Chicago. Those are my two films that shot before I moved it set up against the the wall. Yes, this is why we need to be, Yah, Mars, we need to be. So I'm not really showing that I had just did how you like me? Now? Now, I didn't have anything to show myself, but I just did this film. In Chicago. So I was just I'm a good talker in a room. So I was like, but I'm great, I'm a work I'm just met a table full of old men, and I'm selling. I'm selling. And I at this agency called Triad at the time, which was a big agency then, and I went with Tryad. And so I went back home and packed my car up. I also had found a place to live out there, rented from this woman in her house, and then I drove up to l A. And I saved up enough money and had a little help from my then manager who used to run my mother's studio, who was helping me, and I didn't have to work for a year. And then within that year, before my money was just about to run out, I got posse. Wow, wait the way she told that story, it was like a cliffhanger, and hear everything I know how know how to hit the bullet points. We are literally rabbit hole city. But I mean I had gotten you know, a few I think I did a pilot. Uh and how many pilots have you done? A number of them, didn't I see the rock is on your IMDb two do you do an episode of a rock Rocky Carrol. So I was like wondering if that translations to the rock it's been a long Yes you can't remember, Yes you've done. Yeah, yes you have. Okay, Oh I did, yeah, yes you have. I forgot I did a Jamie Foxx show. Yeah you did. Yeah, Yes I forgot that. Okay. So this is why I'm asking this. So there's a friend of mine who was the star of her own, uh successful series, and she told me that even though they were hit out the box, she wanted to wait until season three to buy the house. You know, when you're like, hey, I'm on a hit show, I've been nominated for a few Emmy's, I'm established, let me buy that house. And then out of nowhere, and I don't know why, but suddenly the show got canceled. And it wasn't like dude to low ratings, Like something happened, a freak accident maybe like one of the executive producers died or something, and now she's stuck with this house. And the whole point was she told me it took her like maybe eight years to finally get this off of her hands, like she's been stuck with this house. So I always wanted to know on the acting side of things, when you're in this city, when you get a guest role on a rock or you know, the office person number twelve and living single whatever, sustainability wise, how safe do you feel like if the imagined grim Reapers behind you is a guest spot on a show, a jump for you for at least four months of safety to breathe before the grim Reaper catches up and then you have to get your next series, Like how four months? No? No, that's why be born strike you. I can't make no. Luckily, I've always lived as if whatever this check is, I may not work for months. I may not work for a year. So even when you have something good, it's never a I haven't felt comfortable and secure in this business, and I still have an actor's mindset that at any point some shit might change. Until I started directing and really started hitting my stride, have I sat back and relaxed for a second. And my husband will tell you there have been many flights where he's like, I'm like, it's only a four hour flight. We can fly coach. I'm cheap, And that's how I live. I live is if I may not work for another year, but does that also prevent you from dreaming? And I, not to sound real naive, saved yes, but it really wasn't until like I allowed myself to Like it's almost like you have to tell your body, like, Okay, this is what I want and this is my dream I'm pursuing hook cook, crook or whatever, because I used to be the careful smurf like, oh man, like we're never going to da da da da dada, so let me save up and that sort of thing. So how do you ride the line between safety and this is the dream that I went? Well, I did. But I did do that because by really pivoting to directing, I had to take a chance. I was working a lot as an actress and that was working well for me. And when you first started directing, it's a good living. But if I'm on a hit show. When I started directing, I could still make more money acting as long as I was on a series, because I have a you know, my my rate for an episode is going to be pretty good compared to the director, which takes a little longer to do an episode. But oh damn, so I chose the wrong profession again every time? No, But so I had to really make a decision. I was looking at the long game. I knew that in directing, you know, there's not a lot of and I'm just I don't care. I'm fifty five now, I'll be fifty six this year. They are not awesome. There are not a lot of women my age, especially people of color, who are big, huge movie stars or you know, the lead of a TV series. As you get older, things are going to change, so you have to make a decision where you're going. And so looking at directing, I knew it was going to take me somewhere, and I just had faith that. Besides that, I feel like it's my calling. I knew that this was going to be my longevity and this is where my wealth was going to happen. When did you realize that directing was you call it honestly the first time I did it, really, which was the first Eureka, okay, I did Ava DuVernay's first film, I will follow. Okay. She had done some docu she had I think she had directed a documentary or two before that, but this was her first narrative film. And during that process, I always say I must have been a little one of those actresses that was given too much of their opinion because at some point she said to me during that process, she said, I think you're a director and you don't know it. How did you feel when you were told that there's something about when it was you know how someone just says something to you and you kind of see your life flash and I go like, moment, I had a Eureka moment. Thank you. It was like God put something in her to give to me and it changed my life and I was on I was want to break from Eureka at that time. It was like you know our hiatus and Ava said that to me and I went, huh, she's doing it. She was a publicist, she can do this. And I called this director. I knew Eric Laanaville, who does Who's done Black Black? Director used to be an actor on I Think Saint Elsewhere with Denzel. He came up with him and he started directing that show. Anyway, he had directed me on Eureka, and I called him. I said, hey, I want to ask them about directing. I think I want to do this. Can I shadow you? He said absolutely, So went in shadowed him on a few like two shows during my break and got Ava gave me some tapes. I got some books. I have many years of you know, learning on the set, which you find out how much you really know when you do it. And I asked my producer producers, and they tried me and gave me an episode. And when I did, I still remember when they called me and said yes where I was standing, and that moment of being excited and then literally the next moment going holy shit, now now it's real. Now I have to really do it. And after doing that first episode, I went, oh, I understand this. I get this. This is great and directly for you was something you learned strictly just from shadowing other director. It's not something like you went to school for. Well, I say, I went to school because it was like twenty five years of acting, so what I realized. So then I did. I did the Sony Film program at the studio and then I remember during that I'm in this program and I was feeling a little intimidated because they had all these students who had gone to Afi and Yu and blah blah blah. They had done their little films and stuff, but they've all been in school, and I the more they talked. The more panels, I mean, the more like little group classes and speakers would come. All of a sudden, I became part of the speakers because I knew so much from being on the set right, so I the mixture of doing the work I needed to by really shadowing and paying attention. And when I say shadow because I tell people who come to shadow means shadowing means you're there through every bit of pre production, every meeting, every when I go to set. If I get to work an hour before, you should be there an hour. Yeah, you're there every minute. When we edited, I was there every minute. And so you really that's a different than just sitting on a set. I learned a lot. You shadow me. It's it's I learned a lot doing that. And then but honestly, you don't you don't know if you're can be good at it until you do it. So now that you're knee deep in it, have you accepted that this is your actual calling? Because for me, though they're still it's almost you know, like in Heat where you got to walk away in thirty seconds or else, and there is that moment. Sorry to spoiler for those that have not seen the movie Heat, yeah, No, there's a moment at the very end where de Niro can just he executed it. He got the guy, he can walk off with the girl. This is a little itching he has to go back and see and of course you know, I won't spoiler what happens, but it does. So my whole point is there is a part of me as a musician that still feels like I didn't scratch that itch yet. Yeah, you know, like I've done everything in the music world except arrived at this platform on my own without aiding someone getting there or that sort of thing. And even though I'm having a hell of a life and a hell of a journey everywhere else, this part of me that's still like, man, none of this like there's an asterisk there, like, none of this counts until I can do for music what I'm able to do for these other ventures. So for you in acting in terms of like that, have you resolved that? And just like, hey, if the universe always wanted me to tell stories behind the camera, no have I. So when I started directing so much, I in the beginning I thought that I would be doing both. I would I'll direct this part of the year and then I'll be on a series, use and do this part of the year, and then all of a sudden, I was getting booked so much that it made sense for me to just keep on directing. So I always thought I would be acting. I didn't know I was quitting at the time. And then you look back and it's three years later, and you know, because I was still dabbling and doing small little things, or more than three. I mean, it's been many years now that I haven't really acted. You know. Every once in a while, I've done a show where it was directed and they're like, oh, why don't you just do this role. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll do it. That'll be fun. So I would never say never. I would love to do something that would be truly challenging for me. I think at the end of my acting career, I was doing a lot of the same kind of role. I was like the powerful black woman in the office, attorney, head of the company, deag you know, I was just the same. Yeah, you know, I'm telling everybody what to do and then I go back in my office. That was becoming a kind of boring and not very challenging. And I do think that I never was given the opportunity to really show how good I can be and to really really do amazing work, and I don't think I ever had. Part of the way the reason I direct the way I do is that I really push people because I felt like I've never had that one director who would not accept anything but everything they knew they had in me. And so when I work with actors, if I know you have more, if I know if I'm watching your performance and I know what kind of actor you are, too say you've done three takes and it's the same. It's a good performance, but I noticed it's the same. Then I know you werehear set at home and now and I like it. I'm watching it. Other people are impressed. But there's something in my gut or in my heart, in my body that I know when it's real, and I hope to push you to give me that moment where I really feel it and then I go, now we have it. And I've never had that person do that for me. Yeah, I guess in the past ten to fifteen years, they come in I won't say shots fired, but there have been words from the US brothers in terms of their experience with Denzel on it's a book of right, of which I guess you know. One of them was joking about like, and I've heard this before from other actors, where like Denzel would be like, I'm only going to give you two performances, so you better capture it now, like I don't have it, And established actors I know, like I didn't know that that was an option, like, you've better capture me now. And I've heard de Niro stories and all that stuff from established actors. How do you know how far to push your actors, especially if you're in a situation where like time is of the essence. You know, there's always some serious micromanaging producer in the background, like okay, we're losing light, or you know, we don't have enough for overtime or whatever. How do you know when to press a button, when to make someone do a fourth take? Yeah, Like, how do you know that? I think it's everyone's different and you have to take cues from the people you're working with. Sometimes I will, especially with the bigger actors, I will I have conversations with everyone before I shoot, you know, because how far? How far can I push you? How far are you comfortable with? I apologize guys, this is really going to just be the Sally mirror because morse he's talking. The more I'm like, oh god, I didn't think about them of this. I gotta confront people and talk, and I talk to them a lot of my actor friends, and they'll tell me, like if a list person's being an asshole on the set and that sort of thing. There's some people I know that. There are some actors I can I can on the side of the camera say things that I know that will give you an emotional response. I can come whisper in your ear and tell you you're a piece of ship and that's why you ain't never this. I'll talk crazy in her, but I know that we have, we've had a conversation. Just get excited. I see you doing that. Actors on the Gilday, I just went off the room. I am a piece of ship. I'm like, what do you? I'm like, what are your bring Christine Baranski's ear. I am not saying that, but there are certain people I can go. I can look at you and go I don't believe you right now. So but should you have to go through Jedi, Yeah, you just have to go through Jedi. I have to figure out. I have to figure out how to get the best out of you without you shutting down. Now there are some there's some big actors who are a little more persnickety, but I also don't have to put they they're good people, they know what they're doing. So I have to figure out what little things I can say to you to get what I want. And sometimes it can be uncomfortable for me, but that's by earning their respect and not being afraid to give them the note even though you know they're gonna give you an attitude about it. So as a woman, as we you know, and I've heard this many times in any professional setting, like women often have to fight for to stand their ground as leader and to get oursts and it's sort of us not look kind of sitting and all those things. So how deep is the mental preparation that you have to do when you know that you're dealing with an actor or actress whatever that sort of might have closed that won't submit to you. I don't there is something about my personality that does not give you the feeling that you should not listen to what I'm asking you to do. And first of all, I'm very prepped and prepared, which is part of them starting to respect you. And again, there's not much you can do to me that will, at least outwardly, will break me down. So people attempted. I've had. I've had some early on, some volatile people. But that's where Chicago comes and in my mind because people I've had producers say to me, Okay, other women have cried here and this and that, and I'm like, ain't nobody gonna see me cry? Like that's just not like it's not happening. I don't cry in life. Really, it's not a good thing. My husband says, I didn't. No, I'm a sad but you know, I just I come from that that you know, I come from that black mother where there is there is like just suck it up and move on. So there's times I feel it and of course cried in my life. I believe I need to learn how to cry. My husband was I remember when he goes, if you walk down this aisle and I don't see you cry, and the whole time going down the aisle, I was like, fuck, figure how to cry? Real upset? I didn't cry when I had I gave birth to two children. With no drugs and yeah, but no tears with no drugs, natural child. I just not a crier anyway. So let me tell you you're you're not that. I've had, you know, different things in my life. I'm not ready to do. I'm not doing hotel all I need to be on one. But I've had enough trauma that you being a disgruntled actor or even cursing in my face and like seeming physically intimidating in front of me. In my mind, I'm like, I wish you now. I wouldn't say that, but that's the look. I'm like what you got so so that mixed with what people think I look like and how But I also have this mom voice that will come what I was. What I'm telling you that I need you to do is go from there to there. And but then I'm nice to you too, like you have to pull everything out. I gotta be your mother. I gotta be your girlfriend. Sometimes I gotta be your sister. I gotta be your boss, I gotta there's a whole uh my job. And what I'm very good at is figuring out what you need? What does this actor need for me to get the best performance? And at the end of the day, they most of them, I would, I think, have left feeling like I know what I'm doing and they trusted me and and you know, and then some of them want to be friends with them. Some I hope I never see you again, but but they would never know it. But don't you feel that way about the band? Like you're a suit me saying this? She's saying this now, and I've learned so I learned already that when a person worries, you're basically politely praying that something bad does happen to you. I hope I don't get attacked in this subway. I hope I don't get ran over by a car. I hope my wife don't catch me, you know, like weird weird one. But for the last two years sort of riding the fence of why me and why now and what's the catch here? And then she's saying this, and I'm realizing, Ah, fucking universe, I get this now. The universe knows I hate confrontation. I don't like confrontation either. I despise. I know I have Richard Nichols for that. Don't let that verse go. Yeah, you know, but you know now I'm realizing, ah, damn, this is God because this thing, it's one thing when you're doing documentaries, like for me, I will say that what I'm working on now is it's not summer of soul, you know what I mean in terms of like people talking about a joyous time whatever, like, because I'm talking about trauma and shit. So getting answers out of my subjects is like, like I feel like I should be a qualified paralegal like the lawyer levels that I'm going to get the answer that I need you to give and coax it out of you. And it's just like, ah, damn, what if this is the universe forcing me in this like to be a people person something that you're from. I hate people, you know. But now that you're saying this, and I'm realizing, damn, this is what the next six years of my life is about to be. Like I'm gonna have to talk to people and you'll learn so much about I don't know, I say, grace right now, I'm here, But you learned so much about communication with people. I mean, okay, he don't do he needs help with the iause I have to deal with so many different people and as But really in the position listen, I can't argue. I'm not going to argue with any actors. I'm not going to argue with your stars, not really argue because you could walk off the set. Now I can't shoot, so because my job is also so let's get this day going. So sometimes I'm like, in my mind, you may be talking crazy to me. Do I engage? No, I can't engage because that's an argument. Is that what? Because whenever I'm on to set, I'm talking about, like when I was doing videos whatever, the annoying person, the guy that yells and all that stuff. Like I always know is that the directors just sits in front of the watch the daily's screen and all that stuff and really doesn't say much. It comes. The AD doesn't talk to the actors for me. No, you don't allow that for you or in general on it on the kind of shows that I'm doing, absolutely not okay. He can call and tell you it's time, you know, it's time to shoot or something, but any if to No, it's all me. I always thought the job of the AD would sort of be the bad cop, so that you don't have to that would be my bad cop. As far as production. Let let them know this information. This is why we're not shooting right now, this is why it's going to take longer. I'm sorry we brought you in earlier, but this is this happened that kind of thing. But any problems on a set, when we're talking about the work, what I need you to do, what this character is going to do, why it's not working, blah blah blah, that's all me. So yeah, So when you're doing a series, yeah, and you aren't the showrunner of said series, how do you navigate your job as a director? Because okay, for instance, there was there was an episode of Boardwalking Pyre that I watched that Marty Scorsese directed, Okay, and I would have had no clue that he did it because I didn't see none of the film a school markert, like none of his trademark, yeah scorseseisms or whatever. And I realized that, oh well, he sort of has to fit into the shell of what the show is. How do you know when you get called for a show, how much leverager leeway are you allowed to or are you even one of those directors that's thinking of like what your trademark is, Like you know, Yeah, so you find a way. And again that's why I kind of had a goal of the platform, Like really my end goal was to get to a platform like HBO where you have more freedom to be who you are as a director. So when you're going on some of these earlier shows, absolutely there is a style you have to fit into it, but you find a way to infuse some of you into their show. Otherwise they could hire anyone. So why do they Why do they bring you back? So maybe I have a few shots that maybe pushing the envelope a little bit, but it's definitely what I like to do. I always say I like the camera moving a lot, and I love doing long runners. So most of the time you'll find that in my episode somewhere in there might be a long runner. Yeah, I was going to ask what was some of your I guess your techniques and winning time that you use. That's a good example. That's the show which it has to look like vintage, you know. Yeah, he came in second season too. Well, I start, I did the first season. I did the last two episodes of the first season. So how much micromanaging does the screenwriter do in terms of like, so, what have you decided I don't want to use this grain of like are you allowed to make a radicus? No? No No, no, no, no, that is established what the look is going to be. But I find that particular show we're using so many different formats that I really have a lot of freedom. So I definitely there's a lot of that style in me. I mean, they're is a lot of I say, in the action, you'll see a lot of pushing and pulling shots that are mine. Again, there will be a lot of shots where it's a long wonner, where there's a lot of handoffs. That means think of a classic uh, good fella shot I love at the table, good fellow, the whole restaurant when you first I well, I love blocking, and so blocking a shot like that with that that takes a lot of prep and that would just everything about that shot is perfect. I love that shot. There's a shot in this movie called Rush that does about Yes, there's a big long shot like that too, love it, love it. So you'd see a lot of that in my work. You'll see a lot of energy pushing and pulling. You'll see lower angles, You'll see that stuff that comes in really intimately. So I could winning time was perfect for that. I could pretty much do whatever I wanted to there within even though the format of how we shot it was set in stone, I could still do most of me in there too, which is I think part of the reason they brought me back to produce the next season and to direct half of it, because they liked what I did in the last two episodes. And I feel like the show, you know, kind of found its real sweet spot. You know, it takes a show a second. You know, Adam set up an amazing pilot, but then it takes a second for things to really you know, get mixed and work, you know, bake, and by the second season, you know, we could really get in there and fine tune some things. Do you question I had to that point. So a lot of times with TV, we're talking to directors and talking to just a lot of actors. A lot of times they'll tell you most television shows don't really hit their stride until probably like season three or you know, but now shows don't even get that much of a chance. How do you, as a director, how do you adapt to that this kind of landscape whit I mean, there's nothing you can do. It just hope that. I don't know. It's so hard, I think with you know, Winning Time, it's also a very very expensive show to make, so it's hard to just let it hit its stride. Although I felt like this second season so you were really falling into a nice spot. But you know, the things have changed down here, and you know, in the business, who knows. I don't know the decision making. I know I did what I was supposed to do and people are loving it, and you know, I just kind of blow where the wind takes me. How do they determine what is a successful series and worth investigating as opposed to not nowadays? Because I mean, if we're Winning Time, they're not going on or they're not sharing Nielsen rating still for network TV, it's different on on those platform well, I know, for streaming or whatever, they don't share the numbers. You don't know, So I mean to to sort of prematurely yank it before it gets its chance to really unfurl and reveal itself. Like I think, there's so many factors. There's so like is it getting is it getting awards? Is it getting nominated that maybe even if it wasn't getting Lovecraft like that got so many that left for another reason, right, like that didn't even have anything to do with No that was creative. Yeah, I think there were some things going on. Yeah, so there's so many. There's so I heard Casey Bloyse, who's you know they head to HBO. I heard him on a podcast talking and there's just so many factors. It can be a show that is like artistically fantastic that doesn't cost them a lot and may not be getting but is getting all the great reviews, may not be getting all the numbers, but maybe that show can come back because it's getting some of the artistic things they want and doesn't cost that much to make, so it works, you know. So there's all these different factors he was talking about on this podcast. So again, so do you attribute the success of the Gilded Age to that? To the what you just said about awards and whatnot, because now there're I mean, we got things for behind the scenes, but actors weren't getting it the show, you know, but we don't even know. I mean, this is the second Secene and Gilded we had our second season winning time. I think Gilded is going to be you know, and we don't know about the season three of Gilded until it's out and we see what the numbers are. I think that the second season of Gilded is fantastic and fun, you know, so who knows? But also about winning time was about you know, I don't know right right? So okay, when you when you got the Gilded Project, what was your please? I was like, how did I get this? Please tell us? But yeah, like, what was your knowledge of life in the eighteen hundreds? At the same knowledge that anybody else has? Right fast? If you think about it, like had you heard of the Gilded Age? Even listen, white, black, blue man, woman, nobody who's living in the eighteen hundreds? Most people are not historians, but there's always some historian like, well, actually they you know, we have. But I have you there to fulfill, you know, to tell me what that stuff is. I was a lover of period pieces. I've always loved them. I had watched all of down to Abby. I had if you say on the list, I would love like dangerous Liaisons. I have to watch that over and over, you know. Anyway, So when that opportunity came up to UH to meet with them, I was ready and I had done enough. I hadn't done a show like that, and they were looking for a black woman in particular, I think, to fill that role because they knew they were going to have this black family in it, and they also knew they needed a woman's point of view because of what the show was. And so I met and I just told them about my love of the show. I'm very good with detail. I'm a good student of things. So somehow or another I convince them, like I did when I moved to LA and convinced William y'all should sign me. I ain't got no tape, but I can do it. I was, I'm good again, I'm good in to interview. I convinced and I can do this, and they said yes and and and then that because of COVID, because initially I was only supposed to do two episodes, and then COVID happened, and that's part of the thing that launched it into me then producing and doing more of the episodes. Uh, and grew into this deal at HBO. It was like this whole weird thing that I don't even know how it has. All deal, you mean you're over me to Sally Richards and Whitfield, HBO overall deal which I don't Most people don't even understand what that means. But congratulations. This means that you can develop your own projects there. Yeah, and they just give me a certain amount of money and I'm exclusive to them and everything. Yo. Black Dynamite is one of my favorite movies. You body that it? Well, thank you, thank you mother. Okay, So I first became aware of you of posse. Could you talk about the process that led to Mario hiring you? So? I think I actually got the audition, I mean through my agent, But I had met Blair Underwood somehow in La you know, i'd been there a little about it, you know that year, right, met him at a party and he told Mario. I think he told Mario about me and said I'd be perfect for this film. She's black and American Indian. Right. So I go in an audition with everybody else and I got down to the last few. But then they hired someone else. I'll tell you who that was in a secondly, because it's okay, I can tell you. Wait a minute, is this a thing where they hired someone else and they were shooting and they say no, no, no no, And then it comes down to you. They were shooting and they were like, I got a call. Okay, So I don't get it. I'm sad because I was like, who else can be? But at that time, my hair legit was down here, dead straight. I'm like, my mama has always told me we got charity. I am American, and I got a picture of my great grandmother and she is two braids, and I'm pretty sure my mama ain't lying anyway, So I don't get it. And then one day I get a call on it Saturday and they're like, oh, they have fire the actress. Can you be here later on tonight? You're shooting Monday. That person is stay and I think she got there and whatever. I don't know. I heard there was some you know, it wasn't going well, difficult anyway. I don't know I went there. But all I know is I got a call Saturday and Monday I was shooting. How did you feel when you got I still remember where I was. I was at some guy's house. I was dating, and I don't even know if I had time to think, you know, I was just like, oh, I got it was just Saturday and you start on Monday. Well, I don't know if I started now I started that week. I was there. Whatever hair they had got for her track, they put that in my head and put that happened on me. I was, how much preparation did you have to to do? I don't know. I just started. I don't you know. It's been a while. But it's not like I had that many deep lines. I already wrote. I knew how to ride and stuff. So getting ready for another movie audition, I had learned, you know, Glenn Turman has a ranch. So I had met some people who took me to Glenn Turman's ranch, and Glenn taught me how to like really ride. So I was ready. I was like, I got there. I had a young brain. I could memorize anything. Now I'd be like, well, I need two weeks to memorize this. And I was there and I was shooting, and I'm there with Tone Loak and Big Daddy Kane and yes At Melvin and Mario and and Pam Greer and I mean we had all sorts of people there. It was a it was a dream. It like it's a blur in my mind. We used to play during our breaks, like on the weekend, we would play basketball. I remember tiny I was still good in basketball then I could still because when I first was out here, I would do that. That's when they used to do celebrity basketball tournaments, so I used to play in all of those games. I was still I was still pretty decent. Then what's your position? Lists this entire tablets played center on my Boys and Girls club basketball team. I played the sports here we go. No you have you got it, bron, I don't know nothing much for it. Yeah, so yeah, it was. We had the best time on that movie. I mean, I wanted to ask you about low down, dirty Shane, which is probably my favorite role of yours, right like straight up and down. And I was thinking about what you were saying earlier about how directors it is read that you were pushed in some ways. I think the reason why I really liked that role is because that was the first time that I remember kind of seeing you as a villain, and I just thought, I was like, yo, I want to see more. Sally is like the villain, like just straight up, you know, just you know. So unfortunately, you know, also, I came up at a time where there wasn't that many it wasn't that many jobs we were It was really all of us, me, Jada h Nia. Everybody's going for the same thing and Jada Nia few people kind of they were already there. Honestly, they had started a little sooner than me. You know, people start taking off and there's just not a lot of spots for you. But also when I talk about not being pushed there, I also have been given that many roles where there was an opportunity to push me to do something that different. You know, what would be an example of something now, a role now that you would or a role that you went after that close. But no cigar moment. Oh, those are so many. I mean probably every every movie you've seen another black actress the lead in. We all knew. We all went out for the same thing. Remember I said I screen test me. I think Tisha Campbell was there too, and then Jada for Nuttie Professor and they gave it to Jada. Yeah, I think it was the three of us testing. So Okay, when you talk about testing, what is the process of testing, because I've heard like, okay, he's coming recold for those are auditions. Those are like the yes's testing, like a chemistry test to see chemistry, character gets along and when I say, a screen test. That's a whole different thing. So when I said Rage and Harlem, I read with Forrest on a set in full hair, makeup, costume, him and costume. We're doing a scene from the movie being filmed on the cameras. That's like, it looks like the movie almost. How often does that process happen now still or not? I don't think as much, Nutti Professor, same thing. Eddie came out in full on makeup. I'm their hair makeup. You're in. I think we were in a lab or something and we did a scene from the movie and they filmed this same data. Got what's funny is that? What's funny is that's what my hair looks like this? And then I saw the movie and it was a yeah, Jada's wig, so my hair was just like that. And then they did the movie. I said, they put my hair on. That's what I decided, because you know, she had really short hair. I said, what is this in your in your acting fees? Like for you, are movies the the ultimate goal or the security of a series? Well, as an actress, you want the security of a you know, if you could get a scandal, listen, you move because most of the time, unless you are the big A list actor, you're not making that much to do a film. You know, maybe you know, maybe a few hundred thousand dollars which will last you for a little while, you know. Back to my original analogy. So a small role as the girlfriend or whatever, any movie that's just enough for maybe if you're two months three months out here, a small role or what are you talking about? Like my role in Low Down? Yes, probably that was my biggest paycheck, main character in that one. Yeah, so that gave me enough money to live on for a little while. And again I'm going, in my mind, I think that the people need to have more of this mindset I go because everyone else is mine. They're like, oh you well, because people are telling you that, ooh you about to take off, right, it's about to be it. In my mind, I already knew at that point. Yeah, I'm not trusting it. Do you book a project at a time or do you Are you allowed to stack? Of course if you can. Again, at that time, there wasn't a lot of too stack. I don't know what I did. I don't know what I did after that. So are you frugal enough they're doing low down, dirty shame. After that, you were still in your one bedroom or did you go, I'm gonta step it up and get two. Listen when we were when we were shooting, when we were shooting low down, dirty shame. I and I had done Posse and some other small things. I still had that six hundred dollar car. Wowkauy of that. I drove to La n and Jada and Keenan. They were like, listen, you have got to get a new car. And I did remember. I remember pulling up on the set and they all, you know, Jada had been on some series and they got nice cars. I would meet people at parties and at restaurants and I would not vow because that's what I was going to ask. And I know that. Well, at some point, like I couldn't put my window down. It was you know, it looked good. You know again, I was like, so I finally like least a truck, duck, at least ah. Well, you know, everybody has an SGUV. Yes. I didn't know if he was going how she'd be were I was gonna be a rabnet. I was like, no, no, no, I leased a car. I don't know but I was afraid, you know, I was just afraid. I was afraid of being broke. I'm in I didn't have I have lovely parents, I have a very supportive family, but there wasn't an wasn't a bunch of money to be sending to help me, and nor did I ever ask. So I moved to l A. This was my choice. I have to make. I'm out here on my own and not not to say I couldn't have gone back to Chicago and had a place to go. Like again, I love my family that would have done anything for me. But I never had to ask for anything. And was there a moment where you're just like, I'm out here, like no, so you just never no matter how not that I wasn't at home weeping and crying and when am I going to work? And just I did weep and cry about that stuff. I was like, that's not in front of people, that's by myself. You know, you know, you have that depression. I haven't worked in three, four or five months? Is what's the next thing going to be? But I always worked enough to keep going. I never and I never spent beyond my means. I never I was always because I just didn't. You know, when you come from not having everything you want, you should be conservative. I think you're on both sides, or you just start spending all your money. So are you the person now that like, since we're going through this long asst right, people are now calling like Sally, how did you do it? Like Sally, help me get through it? Like you just seem maybe in that way because people I've been telling I've been telling everyone listen, I don't know how Like my assistant, I kept going, Hey, we don't know how long the strike is going to be. Right now, I'm still getting my money and everything they haven't, which means I can still pay you. But anything could happen, So don't get comfortable. I know everybody must be jealous of that, because if you ain't, if they ain't paying me, you ain't getting paid because I don't have I don't have it like that, you know. So I've been with her. I see people. I judge people all the time. During this time, I've been seeing some of my friends or some of the people in my director's group going on trips and stuff, and I'm knowing that they don't work as much as I do. You know, like you know where I'm like, I'm like, uh, why are they on that trip? I'm like they got something going on. I don't know, but I'm like, Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only person and things like that, like I'll see somebody like I'm judging people well, and I'm judging your money. I don't know what you got all the time? How did you maintain your sanity in a straight but also your creativity? And really was the rule that you're not supposed to do any work whatsoever? Well, I can do stuff on like me and my manager can talk about stuff. You know. I have projects that I've been developing for a while that I can do stuff on my own. I'm sitting there. I have to make like my pitch decks. I have a documentary that I'm working on in which I can do so I've been working on this, like sizzle. I've been able to pitch some of my documentary stuff, so, you know, So I've been able to do some things. And and then I've you know, drove my husband a little crazy because probably everything in our every drawer in our house has been reorganized. We're we're onto the garage. I'm not like, right now, I was audience, I have a back injury. I am not good. I can't not do. I'm a doer. You can't relax. I'm a twenty fource. And maybe one day and then after that, I'm like, I'm being real irresponsible. Right now, I need to get up. I'm gonna I just have to do something. So I'm like, well, I got nothing else to do. We're gonna reorganize the house. We're gonna do this. I've been needing to get this done because I wanted you to be silent, and I have. I found that's why I got COVID and then I got hurt. My back set you down, literally. But but I've been watching stuff on the on my side as I lay in the bed on my side. But I've learned that if you're sitting aroun not doing, things get done. Uh not, they don't get done, and things move ahead because there's other people doing this last year. Uh And a lot of that is through having this HBO deal and kind of coming into my own enough that I go, I'm not getting this work because I'm a woman. I'm not getting this work because I'm black. I'm getting these jobs now because I really am the best person for this job. And luckily and now they can also check these boxes off. You know, it's like some added little thing. So I think somewhere in that confidence has made me go, you can relax a little bit. We like, we had a big group trip. We all went to South Africa together, which was not a cheap trip trip with like that. I have some fancy friends, Jeff and Nicole Friday from ABFF. Jeff and Nicole liked I'm shouting them out. They like to travel nicely, so they forced me out of my comfort zone. And my husband's very happy because you know, he could just kind of let me be who I am and just shakes his head. But we had a fabulous trip, so I was like, Okay, we're gonna go take this once in a lifetime trip with my children. And my daughter and I took a trip before she went to college. So I've been able to relax a little bit. And then I come back and then I get a moment of being afraid or we spend too much money, But you know, you have to enjoy this stuff. I want to ask you about Dondre. I've had a chance to meet him. This has been a couple of years back on Queen Sugar Good buddy my Omar that plays Hollywood. We hung out in New York one night and he was coolest dude. You know what I'm saying. I don't know how he is at home, but with us, it's been twenty we've been together twenty six years. Question, how do y'all? Because I think I think it's like y'all and like Courtney and Angela Bassett, like y'all, like one of the only surviving no pressure, no pressure now now because now now you just jinxes. That's like watching golf. He's been making this but all you got to miss it now, Okay, go ahead, How did all survive for so long? What? What you know? It's specifically and not just in a mess but just I mean too creative professionals. Yeah, like that's a lie. You directed him? You know what? I don't know. Andre and I obviously we we love each other very much. We have two very I think a lot of it. We have two very happy children. And once you're you know, my my son's going into heigh it just is a freshman this year and my uh, my daughter is. It's film and pure. So you look at your children, and but you know, you look at your children, and that's also a motivating factor of that. No matter what our issues are, we need to figure this out. We got happy. We got a happy little family here, and there's a you know, there's a mutual respect there. And I don't know, we're both very competitive and that competitive nature of oh no, we're gonna stay together. We committed to this. They're gonna figure this out. Also. Somehow I think we both know if you look out here, ain't nothing. There's nothing out here in the And I mean honestly, I mean for me, like what we're come on, you get to a certain age? What what? What? Who I'm on? Meet now? And who's gonna treat me like my husband treats me. Oh because I put out the fat. Yeah, Steve is in mare for him right now. Shoot, the silence are good. But my husband treats he really does treat me like a queen. He takes care of me almost every morning. He knows my coffee I want, if I'm still, if I happen to sleep late, he is bringing that coffee up there for me. That's my question. Yeah, what is your morning routine? What what do you one what time do you automatically wake up without the clock waking you up? And what's the first thing you do in the first half hour of your day? Uh? If we're your habitual right. Fact, most of the time, my eyes will open at six thirty in the morning. Unfortunately, I don't care. My eyes just open. Probably we have three dogs. They probably made some noise in the room. Uh. Three. We have a Rottweiler, a golden Doodle and a crazy Frenchy. Do they like each other? Yes, they do, although our Frenchie and are Roddy are both males who are not fixed and are starting they starting to well, they grew up together because they're only about they're both like three three and a half ish, and they've just that that loving friendship has changed and it's mostly the Frenchie is cool. He's like, if you don't mess with me, we good. He gets along with other dogs. But that frenchie is insane anyway, So I let the dogs out. If if I happen to, you know, sleep later, I'll have my coffee, go down and have my coffee, and usually I get up. I take the dogs on a hike, which is how I hurt my back because I slipped, and I take them out separately. I take the frenchie by himself for a short walk real quick, and then I come back for the other two because they can go on a long walk with me. So that sort of get my day going. And and then you know, nowadays it would be now I have maybe these three zoom calls during you know, zoom meetings or something, but it's usually and I don't eat till probably about twelve thirty one. I'll have a protein shake or something. Yeah, I don't eat in the morning, and that's if I'm not working. Okay, you know working, you know, set four in the morning. Whatever. Okay, what what is your secret talent that you're allowed to say, right right right? I don't know. I always say, I mean I do a lot of things. I mean, I'm a golfer. I'm a I don't know if that's so secret, but I think I know. Are you a part of the squad? So no, like that whole black female squad that goes down well, No, I used to do a lot of the celebrity golf tournaments and stuff. I used to be actually very good. My son is a he's in golfer. He's what is it about golfing? Because a lot of my friends, especially my black friends, who are professionals. Yeah, like, is there a memo that I haven't gotten yet? Like everyone turns forty five and suddenly like, well, I've been playing for like least twenty five years. I had started playing because Andre played when we met. Is it fun or did you start at like golf and then top golf? Oh no, no, no, no, I started playing golf. Richard Rowntree is one of the first people to help me play golf, Richard Rowntree and Richard Laws, and I've had amazing people who have helped me play golf in the beginning, and then obviously my husband. I don't if you listen, I'm not gonna be doing any more pickup games of basketball and stuff like that. I think what it is is that golf is something Golf is something you can do by yourself, you can do in a group. It's highly therapeutic, you can take and smoke, it's highly competitive. It's a way for me to compete. I love to I love to compete, okay, and it's a way for me to do that. And it's it's a hard game. It will challenge you like, how long did it take you to learn it? Because I feel like now I'm gonna have to no one has thee sorry no. But the thing is is, like, all right, for instance, uh, our friend Zara, who is no, but she's stuck in her uh kind of, she's stuck in her mood. She's stuck in her mode where like she loves chain restaurants and I'm like, yeah, exactly, oh no you mentioned Chipotle. She'll like, she'll just die on the spot. However, you know, I'm telling her like, Okay, we're ramping up our games now, and you live in Los Angeles and we're doing these high powered meetings. You might have to learn how to acclamant or adjust yourself to eating sushi. When she's her first response, yeah, I hate sushi whatever, I'm like, no, but like a lot of you know, Pep, we're gonna be running in That's exactly You're gonna have to. We're gonna have to start adulting. And I feel like, for some reason, a lot of the high caliber power people that I'm running in, it's an expensive sport. So that's one thing too, right, why it's not a brokeman's game it's very expensive to play, right, So I mean that's why. Yeah, I hole. So it's like you're walking. From what I've heard is a lot of people to use it for networking, like because it's I mean it's eighteen so you walk in you talking. There's definitely been like on sets on the weekend I'm on location, the producers like we're playing off. I'm like, I brought my clubs. I played. They're like, you play. It is something I've met a lot of people through golf, but I don't use it just for that. I love golf. It's fun. I watch it. Just stretch before you do it, mirror. No. Ever, just despite you. I'll tell you, I'll go with you. Matter of fact, why don't we all next game night, I'm taking everybody to the Top Golf. I'm going let's get let's start you there, get a lesson, he says, top Golf. Okay. I was like, that's not the same. No, I want to get you could get some you know, I could get some swings in and not a physical game. And you you cannot play right now in your current condition, absolutely not not because your back is stance. No, that would not be a good choice. This injury. Can you name me all the non professional jobs that you used to have, Okay, always non industry related. So growing up, my grandmother had owned the dry cleaners, and it's some at one point at two to three of them, like you know. And so in Chicago, a lot of times in the high rises you have a uh, they have a dry cleaner in the building. So so I used to work there every weekend in the summer, every day for my grandmother. So dry cleaners, copy store, okay, pizza place, taking orders and waiting tables at this Italian restaurant. And then I used to stuff envelopes for my mother at the at Chicago State University during a certain time during the year you'd have she had to pay somebody, and I did it. I always had a little job cereal of choice. And then you're not funny in the morning, Okay. Back in the day, it would have been. Uh the frosted wheaties. Frosted wheaties. I love those things. Many weeks I love those. I could eat those out the box. That's my top ten. I like that number six. Yeah, oh man, you scared me because I don't like it. Gets I have to when I would eat it like. I don't like Mike to get soggy, so I would have to like put the milk in and eat it real quick while it was still crunchy. It gets all mushy and it's gross. And okay, I mean, what's your top, dude, I'm peanut, but a Captain crunch all day. No crunchberries. If you're gonna do a Captain crunch, you better do a cruncher. I don't know what You're better eat them with a mouth guard. They're gonna cut up the top of the guys. No, the sugar puff, what is it? The what is it? The puff with the sugar tops? Kicks, sugar corn pops? No golden crips. What's what's the name of the It was like toaster not No, I don't like that. No. I was not a Simon cookie us like I would get lucky charms. But just eat all the did last night I got so Now they've made fruity pebbles with marshmallows. Now none of that stuff tastes the same as kids like so much sugar. It's not the same. I'm still part of the fruit loops. I think fruit loops. Yeah, okay, Apple Jackson of the day. If you're asking me now, I'm gonna give you answers from back in the day because my eating happens have changed. I don't eat here. I'm not gonna have a big sugar bomb in the morning. Yeah, that is not a good choice to start your day off. Yeah, now she's giving life advice. Pescari mushrooms ended this morning. That's what I had. Mushrooms are the thing right now. There are you in the mushroom like drug mushrooms, not drugs, drugs. Magic mushrooms are just a little bit different than heroin. Yeah. I never with that. Yeah, let's do it. But at this point in my life, of course, not really what yes, but been there done that sounds it'll help your tailbow. I'm one of those people at this point I would not like some of the chances I took as a young person. You're not changing horses midstream. Now. I'm like, I could, I could get that one crazy high, like something weird that changes my life, and I got responsibilities and kids. There's nothing, there is nothing, There is no high that I'm chasing. I look back at my life and I go, I'm very lucky that nothing crazy happened. So I'm a wrapping up and keep moving. A little wine and maybe a gummy or something. You started with mushrooms, but that's a psychedelic kind of it's a psychodap. But we talked about drugs. I'm talking about like the hard ship, like the White ship, like scheduled to narcotics, you know what I mean, like any anything. It's like use that as a party drug. So it's yeah, like what yeah, but I'm not going to no More park we're talking about I'm doing. Yeah, No, it's not. I don't consider mushrooms a party joke. And my husband's very straight. He's like, no drugs. He barely drinks, so busy cleaning the garage. I would be there. I'm the organized twenty seventeen coffee How do you how you do your coffee? How do you know? I was going to ask that question because he knows where is your order at Starbucks? What's your Starbucks order? She doesn't go to Starbucks. Make your home. It's just my god. If I'm on the set and they say we're going to Starbucks, I will ask for two things. I will either say I want Americano with one cream one sugar or I will go, oh, today, I'm going to have a little dessert thing. Give me a I mocha half chocolate soy milk, and that would be no whip cream that was at home at home. So he has this mushroom coffee. I'm into the mushrooms, but I love but I love coffee, so I'm not saying you asked me about coffee. So I have my coffee. Listen, try this because in the morning, this thing will have you moving through your day. So I have my regular big cup of coffee ten ounces, and I put a tablespoon of the instant mushroom coffee in my coffee. And then, by the way, done this, and then I use a butter bomb in there that has the coconut oil and the d butter mixture thing. And that's why I don't eat till one because that kind of carries me. Puts a dab of coconut butter inside of his coffee, and what does that do something? It's really good. It's it's really good for your mental capacity energy that mixed with the mushroom stuff with it, Like I'm so wait, what kind of butter was that again? And just butter bomb butter bomb or a coconut that's a tight I'm asking, but it's a mixture of butter, coconut and this other something. But I can I can vouch for this TOI put us onto it. I did it. It actually is. But this whole mixture with the mushroom in it is my I think is my It's my thing. I made it up because I don't want mushroom coffee. I want coffee. And so I was like, I could put it all on Wenesday. What it is coffee? And then yeah, are you coming at you don't drink coffee? Oh so you think he don't know? Okay, no, No, the mushroom because it's a mushroom coffee. I add the mushroom coffee powder into my regular coffee with the butter thing and no sugar. If coffee was really my jam, I'm one of these people. I'm not, Wow, we're talking about coffee, Steve. If you have not waiting yet, I'm thinking about snorting rice. Chrispis as much when I think of Starbucks, Like my Christmas gift to Steve is always like you probably ran out already, gold Starbucks card or something. It's like a lifetime supply. All right, for Halloween? What is your costume? Wait, we're already office, all right, ship, Okay, we're still talking about No, I'm obsessed, but let's talk about Halloween. Okay. The last Halloween that we went to was a dress up as your because they were people were performing on stage two and doing a thing. So I went as Vanity. Wow, yes you did. I went as Vanity. I wore her little outfit, you know, but what I was going to and then I chickened down. Wait, which Vanity from the actual movie? Vanity opened the video, and so I had I got, I rented a tuxedo jacket, and I had hotelingerie and the heels I went. I went. That's how I went. Nice. Do you do you go karaoke? Like at all? No? You started out as a singer, but I don't like karaoke. It's not my thing. Okay, because you go and then it's not in the key you need to be I'm judging, it's like it's too No. No, those songs are always higher than you think. They're always highed like any bon jovie song. Ever, You're like, I got this ship, and then and then you get to the chorus of Blaze of the Glory and you're like, I don't gotten this ship, and then they give me this book like this, I can't make it. It's like it's a lot judging. Okay. For me, I discovered that I have to go back to me as a nine, ten eleven year old and discover fun for that person. For you, what is your one Do you allow yourself to ever become an eleven year old at this stage in your life? And what is it that you do for fun? Do you play Monopoly when no one's watching? Do you watch Tom and Jerry play spades? Am I really making you uncomfortable right now? Well, because I'm thinking of my whole life is going. I'm going maybe I'm not doing enough things for fun. We do play spades. I don't know if I'm doing that all the time, but we used to a lot of things. I used to do, Like Dondrey and I used to be on a in a bowling league. We used to bowl a lot, okay, and golf more than he would say, I'm not playing much golf anymore. I start getting too into work, so I might h you may be telling me I need to have more fun because usually no, No, these are just random questions. You're or not. This is a hard question for me to answer. It would usually be getting together. We have sort of a couple's group. We all go out to dinner, and it's really hanging out with them and going to dinner. But that doesn't sound like that much fun. We're vacationing together, but it doesn't sound that exciting. You know something I discovered the joys of silence. You know, I'm kind of you know how they say I would rather be at home. Sitting up in my house is comfortable. We have a nice little area outside. I can watch TV outside and sit there and be with my husband and with my dogs and chill. Okay, you know you have a guilty pleasure in terms of food or like we talked about all the healthy stuff. Yeah, you do. What's like your you know when you just want to go to the abyss, Like what's the worst thing you eat? Like you just you buzzed down a quarter pounds like burger Let's let's ratchet Sally riches. I think because so for many for a long time, I was like a vegan vegetarian. I've just started eating some meat sometimes now, so I think it would be some pizza and wings something like that. No, no, I want spicy. I went hot. Yeah, I've been enjoying some girls. Let's talk about it. And which right, She was like, god, she thought about the mouse sauce. She was like, holy ship, what I'm sorry, Delian the truth. We're a very silly show. No, very serious about mushrooms. And we're a very silly show. You're asking me, serious ship, what you want? I'm giving you serious answers. Okay, but what's your Okay, my haralds it's been a long time, but my Harold's order would be say it like you at the counter, because okay, well I got to think about it because I remember, is my chicken Heaven in Chicago? So you would get it's like a fried chicken plate and then there's French fries on it and some white bread, and so I always get, you know, like what is that like half a chicken or so I don't remember what, but I like the barbecue sauce and the hot sauce all over it, and I yeah, yeah, so like yeah, half white bread. Yes, it has to be white bread. It has to be in Chicago. Rib tips, yes, sir, Yes, Chicago South Side. That is the city of rib tips, rib tips and white bread, white wonderbread, and some French fries. I'm so glad you're here because it's been a while since we had a Chicago guest on the show. You got to explain some things to me. Okay, Number one, here we go. What's up with y'all? And this anti ketchup on hot dog thing, that's you know what, I like ketchup on my hot dogs. But yeah, because you get when you go get a Chicago hot dog, it's a pickle, these peppers and mustard out the restaurant. Sometimes if you put ketchup on it, or or if you ordered a Chicago dogs, insult to them. Yeah, yeah, I like ketchup. I think that's more of a white thing. Okay, defend your pizza. It's fantastic talking about Oh my god, the way she was. I used to work at a pizza place. I used to work at Eduardo's, which is like really thick pizza. Well, not not to totally alienate an entire part of our listenership, I will just let me tell you. Could you recommend good, better spots in Chicago? Okay, So honestly, on the what I do not remember the name of this. There's a place on like really south side because my mom lives out like in the South. I'm good, no, because he's because she lives out like in the South suburbs now. But it's a thinner pizza that they have. But there is a different taste to the sauce and the pizza in Chicago. Oh God, I wish I as opposed to it. No, no, because yours is super thin. Okay, right, The New York pizza is its own thing. It's fantastic. But there is a thinner crust pizza in Chicago that has like the sausage pizza with the grease in it, and the taste of that sauce is I think maybe it's neighborhood pizza or something. It is a you would love that pizza. If you don't like thick crust, fine, but you would love that pizza. I would put that pizza. I'm I'm gonna text my mother before I leave here and find out the name of this pizza place. I would put that against a slice of New York pizza. I don't have any. You don't have any. I just have to live in New York. But okay, but you know, I'm testing out their pizzas, but that you know what. Okay, So now besides Harold's that pizza in Chicago, that kind of thin crust one with that grease and that Italian sausage. That and Chicago Chinese food is because they don't Chicago Chinese food is. Well, obviously that's what I grew up on. But like some egg food young from some it's a whole different Chinese. I came out of Chinese place. We went to there one night, David Yo, I tried David Wan's last night I was losing hope changed my life as a Jew who loves Chinese food. Well, for whatever reason, that moment at that night, fancy Chinese or like, it's not hood, it's not hood, it's but it's not fancy, but it's not hood. But they've mastered the art of salt and pepper chicken wings. Oh okay, And yes, my test is always egg foo young and shrimp with lobster sauce. If it tastes a certain way, If it's not right, then your restaurant ain't right. Philadelphia is a salt and pepper chicken. It's like two dishes. Of what is probably like a thousand dishes, but for those two are big staples in a In a Chicago Chinese restaurant, you should be able to make egg food young and I feel like you're about to fight. I'm just saying the Chicago one. I'm a random dinner. I said you should have you should have had some alcohol here. I might have been a different person. Less to meet back here tomorrow. Sad time. We're going to wrap up a bit. But I have a few more random questions. If asked me about Gilded real quick, so I can tell you about Okay, you kind of did. It's a great season. It'll be fantastic. Now what more would you like to be going? I just want people it's about to come out, and you know, I want to tell for for my black audience, because we want all I want to say, who were hungry for more of Peggy? Yes, and the Black elite. She's not going to get hurt when she goes to the South. I'm not telling yeah, cool, but but she does go. But I can't say that she goes to meet Booker t Washington. So she does go to Tuskegee. So but you get to see more of that because people were hungry for it, because it was just the taste of Obviously the show's not about that, but so I just wanted to say that because people have been everywhere I go, people are like, when's it coming back? Are we going to see more Peggy? Yes you are, and it's gonna be great. It's kind of great. Well, they're just totally paled my next question. I just wanted to get people keep asking me someone to tell them, go ahead, do y'all put a little extra extra funky on those clothes on the wardrobe and gilded h They spent a lot of money on those because they it seems I mean, it's is brilliant. She is friend this French woman, She is brilliant. They are all handmade. But you know, obviously the ones for the actors, for the main actors, they're all handmade for each of them. They are made with the most beautiful fabric. The hats are It's all about the hats. This year I saw that. It's just that's what I enjoyed so much in directing. It was like, oh, if I if you show if she showed me a special piece, I'm like, don't worry, baby, we see you again. Yeah, yeah, come, I asked you a shallow QUI wow, it's like Jerry's Sally at seven on the Look the funk Out, because I kind of wanted to ended on on rather apropoke question. What would you tell, oh lord, your seven year old self right now, shallow ship. See, they should have warned you about this show. No, no, no, And some some guests are are a little thrown off because yeah, I mean, we could do the normal thing, like hey, what do you pluck? But I want to get to the deep person, you know, behind the project. What would you tell your seven year old self right now, like you're given two minutes to time travel back to you at the age of seven, and opinion your parents did? I think it's I think it really is one of those like you will make it through this. You will make it through this, and and I always say, and it's gonna be okay, like, uh, it's really you're gonna make it through this. You're gonna make it through this. Yes, it's great. What is it like to direct? Now? I'm sorry my last question guild a question. What is it like? I'm gonna say it one more time to direct Audrey McDon she's she's one of those people there's not much to do because she's brilliant and she's kind and nice and easy and everything you would hope from someone who's that talented, Like there's no issues. And if I didn't, you know, if I if that wasn't true, then I would have given you a quick, easy answer. It's good. Thank you a good lady. Well, my future mentor, Sally, are you coming and shadowing? You ready? And then I'll come and talk to you about documentary work. Who's like a round table? Come on now? Well, I thank you for coming on the show. Thank you, thank you so much for having me excited when you guys call, thank you, thank you for putting your touch on my favorite show. And uh yeah when we have font Digelo and m Pei, Bill and Sugar Steve and Layah, this is Quest Love. Thank you a Salarbry you said Woodville for coming on the show. And we'll see you on the next go round the Quest Love SUPREMEO. All right, thank you for listening to your Quest Love Supreme hosted by a mere Quest Love Thompson. Why you, Saint Clair Fonte, Cole, Sugar, Steve Mandel, an unpaid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are a mere Quest, Love Thompson, Sean g and Brian Calhoun. Produced by Brittany Benjamin Cousin, Jig Pink, Liah Saint Clair, edited by Alex Conroy, Produced by iHeart by Noel Brown and Mike Johnson, Audio engineering by Graham Gibson and iHeart and LA Studio. What's Love Supreme is a production of ihearten Radio. 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